Re: Cousteau Saucer and magnet drives Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FWIW: Don't know i...

[MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten Standfuß)]

Hi Vance, thank you ..

My source for Westinghouse as builder were: 

Undersea vehicles for oceanography
ICO-Pamphlet No.10, Washington  Oct.1965 page 20 and 21. 

and also (for Westinghouse) 

Naval Engineers Journal, December 1968, page 948 and 949

The low 15.000 Dollar quote was given by 
"Tauchboote" Norbert Gierschner page 90,91 (great source)
but this book give as producer OFRS
(Office Francais de Recherches Sous-Marine)
and during writing the first mail I was 
think "what a cheap boat.."  

A Kittredge K-250 made in 1977 was given in the same source 
with 8500 Dollar and the S-24 oneman sub with 3450 Dollar
for 1964 - both ready to dive. 

I looked further and 
Janes Ocean Technology from 1978 page 10
gives as producer for SP350 : 
"..the Groignard company before merging with Terin
was involved in the joint designand fabrication of
the SP 350 for the C.E.M.A and C.O.F group to a
design by Cpt.Cousteau. "

That the SP500 replace the SP350 was a mistake of me.  

So we have about 4 saucers : 

SP300 - 1 (hull sunk during test)
SP300 - 2 later renamned SP350 or Denise (Cousteaus wife). 
SP500 - 1 (named Puce de Mer)
SP500 - 2 (named Ocean Fleas)
SP600 (not build but maybe later concept 
       for Deepstar 2000) 
SP3000 (Cyana - not a "Saucer" but use the 
the first pressure hull aus Vasco Jet 90 steel 
(spherical shape made from two hemisphers.)
designed/build for the Westinghouse Deepstar 4000) 

Some more information including pictures are
in "Manned Submersibles" Busby page 206ff.,

SP350 hatch was 15,75 inch, jets can be rotate 270 degree. 
power source is given with 6 x 120 V lead acid 105amp/h batteries. 

For SP 500 the builder was given with : Sud Aviation, France. 
the pressure hull is cylindrical shape with endcaps. 

I phone my supplier today : 
A Endcap (Klöpperboden) with 2500 mm diameter ( 8,2 feet)
and 12 mm (0,47 in) thickness from stock in boiler-steel 
is just 1200 euro/dollar. (with 25mm/ 1 in . = 1625 euro)
Endcap for the hatch with 700 mm diameter ( 2,3 feet) 
with 18 mm ( 0,7in.) thickness and a center hole for the wheel
a a nut for the o-ring is just 277 euro/dollar. 
A cylinder with 700 mm diameter and a high of about
150 mm for the hatch seat is just a little more 
than nothing and same to the pipe cylinder for
the centerline regulator tank - so a plain saucer hull 
(without tax) should be possible for under 3000 Dollar..
Its needs no frames ... and with the thick endcaps
it is good for about 250 meter (820 feet) workdeep..

As useual - no garanties for nothing..

Carsten 

VBra676539@aol.com schrieb:
> 
> Carsten and all,
> 
> One or two points come up out of the Saucer info that might be clarified. The
> sub was never actually replaced, for one thing. The SP500s were built and
> tested as camera platforms and operated sporadically for several years, and
> the Calypso couldn't conveniently carry them all, so sometimes they swapped
> them out, depending on the mission requirements. However, the Frenchmen
> discovered that it is tough to do all that driving and shooting pictures and
> picking up samples and scratching their butts all at once with no one else in
> the sub to help. These subs are all pre-digital, so that sophisticated
> controls simply were not available (Nuytton style midget subs, which are a
> kissing cousin to the Fleas, spring immediately to mind). The Fleas were
> thought to be too complex (and finicky) to train with on short notice, so
> only experienced pilots were allowed to operate them, which excluded the
> science or engineering people that often justified diving in the first place.
> After a while, the 500s were put in deep storage in Virginia and the Saucer
> resumed its rightful place in the hold on Calypso. It was still part of the
> main equipment but not on board when Calypso met her untimely end in
> Singapore.
> 
> Andre Laban was one of the two original engineers involved with the Soucoupe
> development in the 50s and became the 1st pilot and the Chief Pilot. Falco
> was the 1st diver to pilot train, but he learned from Laban.
> 
> The sub was NOT built by Westhinghouse, Carsten. Both hulls were fabricated
> in France by several vendors and assembled by the Cousteau engineering team.
> And the price was $250,000 from start to finish (including development,
> testing, etc.). This figure comes from Will Forman, who was the China Lake
> project engineer on the Deep Jeep, Nemo & Deep View submersibles, who quoted
> the man himself in doing so. The Fleas, by the way, were built on contract by
> Sud Avaition in a little shop right around the corner from where the Concords
> were being built.
> 
> And to clarify the timeline, the 1st hull was lost in the Med in '57, and the
> 2nd (thus DS-2) did its 1st test dives in the West Indies in '59, fried its
> (then) experimental ni-cad batteries, and was taken back to France. This deal
> with the nicads actually happened twice, I think. Finally the lead acid
> batteries were installed (which effectively nullified their science payload)
> and they were off to the races in 1960.
> 
> Westhinghouse comes into this in the mid 60s. They contracted with Cousteau
> for the soucoupe and two pilots (Andre Laban, Canoe Kientzy and briefly,
> Albert Falco) and provided the world's first full-tilt portable system to
> Dill and others along the West Coast of Mexico. This was done to settle into
> the submarine business. Cousteau wouldn't let the Westinghouse guys operate
> the sub. From the experience gained that summer, Westinghouse decided to
> build DeepStar 12,000. Cousteau got the contract but his metal people screwed
> up. The VascoJet 90 hull material chosen would not meet the Charpy V-notch
> testing criteria required by the US Navy, and was refused. Westinghouse then
> had the same hull fabricated in the US using HY-80, which was the Navy's hull
> material and well known, which produced the Deepstar 4000. The rest, as they
> say, is history.
> 
> One side note to all that is the VascoJet hull in France. It was re-rated to
> an operating depth of 3000 meters and became Cyana, which is still
> operational today. Deepstar 4000 was purchased by Comex and returned to
> France but never reactivated. Makes it all circular, eh?
> 
> Best Regards,
> Vance