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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Life Support



HS: Is it correct to think that in an enclosed space, like your pressure hull you will suffer from the negative effects of excess CO2 before you suffer from a lack of O2? What I am getting at is, could you upgrade a simple sub with no life support by adding just a scrubber to extend your usable bottom time or would you only gain a little bit of extra time before the O2 would need replenishing as well.
 
CLR: The CO2 built up rate is some what faster than the O2 consumption rate.  I have on board sensors for O2 and CO2.  I did a life support test over the holiday to establish a base line before turning on the scrubber or O2 make-up.  At time zero, when the hatch was closed, the CO2 level was 300 ppm and the O2 concentration was 20.9%. After 56 minutes, the CO2 had build up to 6200 ppm and the O2 concentration had dropped to 19.0%.  As a reference, ABS requires an alarm notification if CO2 exceeds 5000 ppm (0.5 mole percent) and if O2 drops below 18.0%.  There were no noticeable physiological effects at the time the hatch was opened.   Physiological effects from high CO2 (hypercapnia) such as shortness of breath and headaches don't hit until you exceed 2-3 mole percent of CO2. A concentration of 10% or greater can cause respiratory paralysis and death within a few minutes. Low O2 (hypoxia) causes the pilot to become unconscious when the O2 concentration drops below 12%.
 
HS: What sort of equipment is used by those of you who do replenish the O2? It is sufficient to have an O2 tank, conten gauge, regulator (and gauge?), and a flow meter (with a separate O2 sensor and meter). Or does the equipment need to be more sophisticated than this?
 
CLR: Most handle O2 make-up with a tank 100% O2 with a regulator. My boat has both primary and backup O2 make-up systems.  My tanks are externally mounted to the hull with a scuba regulator that is setup for 100% O2.  For automatic O2 make-up, I use a PLC actuated solenoid valve on the LP side of the regulator to bleed O2 into the cabin after the cabin pressure drops 2 mbar below the pressure at the time the hatch was closed.  This O2 makeup continues until the pressure is greater than or equal to the pressure at the time the cabin hatch was closed.  The PLC locks out O2 makeup if hatch switch is open.  The emergency system uses a medical O2 regulator that has dial settings of 0.0, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 ... 8.0 lpm. During a recent life support test I conducted, I found that at 0.5 lpm, the O2 mole-percent stayed constant. At 1 lpm, the O2 level would rise in the boat. The CO2 sensor I use is from Greystone Energy Systems, model CDD1A-1-00-0 .  The range on the unit can be set from 0-2000 ppm or 0-10000 ppm.  I found the 0-10000 ppm setting to work best for me. The O2 sensor element I used is the Maxtec MAx-250 .  This sensor has a range of 0-100 mole percent O2.  These were the most cost effective sensors I found.  The circuit board I used with the O2 sensor and barometric pressure sensor was designed by Gary Boucher.
 
HS: What do you do about ?oxygen cleaning? Do you have to just concentrate on the O2 supply kit or all of the equipment within the sub?
 
CLR: Assuming the 100% O2 is added at a point in the hull  that is gets mixed with the air circulating in the boat, then you just need to make sure all of the gas components, i,e., tanks, regulator, tubing, valves, fittings are 100% O2 compatible. The o-rings need to be rated for O2.  Each components needs to be physically cleaned to remove any hydrocarbon based oils.  See Vance Harlow's "Oxygen Hackers's Companion" on how to do this.
 
HS: How many of you provide yourselves with CO2, O2, and internal pressure gauges to monitor the environment but do not fit additional life support.
 
CLR: I for one have onboard sensors for CO2, O2, cabin barometric pressure, relative humidity and cabin temperature.  What is required by ABS is CO2 and O2 sensors. 
 
 
The bottom line is bottom time.  The Kitridge boats have been very successful without any life-support other than short bottom times and resurfacing to open hatch to ventilated the cabin.  There is a lot to be said about simplicity.  If you want multiple hour bottom times or if you want to stay within ABS rules, you need to provide for O2 makeup, CO2 scrubbing as well as O2 and CO2 monitoring with alarms.
 
Cliff
 
 
 
 
Maxtec
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Life Support

Hello folks,

 

It has been a long time since my last post but I still have questions!

 

Is it correct to think that in an enclosed space, like your pressure hull you will suffer from the negative effects of excess CO2 before you suffer from a lack of O2? What I am getting at is, could you upgrade a simple sub with no life support by adding just a scrubber to extend your usable bottom time or would you only gain a little bit of extra time before the O2 would need replenishing as well.

 

What sort of equipment is used by those of you who do replenish the O2? It is sufficient to have an O2 tank, conten gauge, regulator (and gauge?), and a flow meter (with a separate O2 sensor and meter). Or does the equipment need to be more sophisticated than this.

 

What do you do about ?oxygen cleaning? Do you have to just concentrate on the O2 supply kit or all of the equipment within the sub?

 

How many of you provide yourselves with CO2, O2, and internal pressure gauges to monitor the environment but do not fit additional life support.

 

Thanks in advanced guys,

 

Harry