Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question

Jim,

Absolutely correct...great story about the patent office. The idea that things have been done before is precisely my approach to this project. I am collecting the ingredients for the recipe, then baking the result. Left alone...., I'm a lousy cook.

For example, my question regarding diesel exhaust was just recently answered by the use of an entrapped air chamber aft and up high in the sail. Ingenious....and I would never have thought of it.

Joe

From:  Jim Pesanka <jpesanka@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question
Date:  Sun, 15 Jan 2006 03:31:58 -0800 (PST)

Hi Rick and Joe,



I'm reminded of comments I received in email from a well known submariner two years ago...




"There?s. a big learning curve. When guys get into subs, things always occur to them that they think are new, but usually somebody thought of it long before. I remember one time I went to the Patent Office with a disclosure on a ?new idea? that turned out to be 300 years old. And I wish I had a dime for every time I went to sleep thinking I had something figured out, only to find out it was unfeasible the next morning."



Food for thought, perhaps. ;^))



Cheers!



Jim






Joseph Perkel <joeperkel@hotmail.com> wrote:



Rick wrote:

"great minds think alike. And fools seldom differ"

Something about "fools and money" causes me some concern from time to time!

Joe


  From: "Rick and Marcia"
<empiricus@telus.net>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:25:21 -0800


Hey, Dude - you can claim this idea all to yourself!!



I'm using a regulator bank for the cockpit. That was my idea. But,  it never occurred to me to use it as a diesel backup breather.



Ah, what the heck, great minds think alike. And fools seldom differ? (forgive the loose paraphrase)



Rick L






----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Perkel

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:13 AM

Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question




Steve



I forgot two more ideas that I am (borrowing), neither of whi!
ch was
mine.

Rick M    Cog belt to drive shaft for possible 12v motor

Rick L     Negative pressure regulators, to feed intermittent air to the diesel from the hp tanks should the snorkel close inadvertently.

I would not be able to do this but for the help I have recieved form this forum.

Joe


  From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:42:33 +0000




Steve wrote:



"What I am s!
tarting
to accept is that most of what I am going to
incorporate are concepts that have already been proven and designed by others.
I guess I am feeling like I am cheating a little!"

....Well...I for one am shamelessly stealing ...err....(borrowing), so far anyway....

Kittredge K350        Soft ballast tank arrangement, Thanks Dan H...as allways.

E-Boat         Bow bouancy tank from fleet boat as my fore and aft trim tanks

Peter Madsens Kraka     Snorkel Float, (which he borrowed, from Germany who borrowed from Dutch in turn).... fixed stern planes, and camera scope.

Sport Sub     Flat plate windows, round ports, Freeman Hatch

Caribsub     Material scantlings, diesel arrangeme!
nt,
poppet valve

That is so far! Steve, in my research, I have discovered that the history of submarine design is full of precisely this "borrowing" of the other guys stuff. We are in good company sir!....just keep your wallet close when I'm around! :)

Joe






From:  "" <psub101@iquest.net>
Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:  "" <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject:  RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question
Date:  Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:25:42 -0500
>Joe,Greg,
>Thanks for your replies.  I wasn't referring to a specific situation. I
enjoy
>the design challenges (like most of us) but have found great examples that
>others have already worked out that are in line with my design desires. I
>guess it is just a personal choice of how much you want to "own" in the way of
>design work vs. how effectively (quickly) you want to get through the design
>process.  What I am starting to accept is that most of what I am going to
>incorporate are concepts that have already been proven and designed by others.
>I guess I am feeling like I am cheating a little!
>
>Thanks,
>Steve
>
>  Joseph Perkel <joeperkel@hotmail.com>:
>
> > Steve,
> >
> >
> > I suspect that most patents regarding basic sub designs, such as Holland's
> > U-Shape ballast tanks, are long since expired. Jay would be in a position to
> > know for sure.
> > If you're referring to Giuseppe's's
take-off of the Sport Sub, I suspect that
> > would be ok as well as long as you don't use any of the trade names...ie,
> > Sportsub and such. If that specific shape is patented, you couldn't market it
> > but you could copy it for your own use.
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  "Gregory B. Snyder" <snyder@mnrad.com>
> > Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > To:  <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Subject:  RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question
> > Date:  Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:21:52 -0600
> > >Doesn't this only become a problem if you plan on reselling or
> > >manufacturing the item?
> > >Greg
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
> > >psub101@iquest.net
> > >Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:00 AM
> > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Protection (patent) Question
> > >
> > >
> > >All,
> > >Recently we have discussed benefits of using existing
> > design
> > >concepts/philosophies that have been proven vs. designing too far out of
> > >
> > >the "box".  I agree with this approach.  Actually I can find a few
> > >commercial
> > >submersibles that are very much like my conceptual design(s) with
> > >usefully
> > >specifications given as well as the sizing/mechanics figured out etc.
> > >My
> > >question is, at what point !
is
"borrowing" exact aspects of another's
> > >design  an
> > >issue?  Obviously you would not assume any design would not need to be
> > >verified
> > >etc. Anyone else struggle with borrowing something that they have seen
> > >commercially?
> > >
> > >Steve
> > McQueen,
> > >Indianapolis,IN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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