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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
The way I see it, with my amateur experience, I wouldn't take a PSUB too far
offshore. As long as I have scuba equipment, and the worst case scenario
comes to it sinking 50 feet under the surface, I could see myself surviving,
even with a small amount of oxygen, or if I had to flood my PSUB, I could
take that last breath of air a-la the movie "Poseidon" with a small air
bubble, open the hatch, and ascent.
The fear of flooding is what prompted me to calculate enough weight on the
sub for one oxygen tank per person, EXTRA from the 24-48 hours of reserve...
just enough to attach to the pilot/observer, and give them air so that they
can reach the surface.
On a similar note, anyone have any suggestion on where I can get one of
those commercial aircraft type life rafts that you throw out of the aircraft
and inflate?
-Joey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of George
Slaterpryce
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:08 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
I couldn't even conceive of not having backups, that's bad juju. As to your
friend in the ultralight... My hats off to 'im, I have a hard enough tim
getting on a commercial plane, much less a kite with a weedeater motor
attached.
Personally when it comes to anything underwater I like to have backups for
everything.
Extra Reg on a long hose (blatantly stolen from DIR divers)
Extra source of gas (either double tank or pony)
El-Cheapo foldable mask.
Even two watches
I can understand why some people think underwater sports are dangerous, but
honestly, it's one of the only places where if you something happens it
almost ALWAYS comes down to your own error. In a weird sort of way that
makes me feel all warm fuzzy and SAFE inside.
George H. Slaterpryce III
www.bridgessoftware.com
www.captovis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
> Yeah, but I still hate the idea of no second chance. Ultralights have had
> their share of airframe and wire failures. It's so easy to fit a chute
> onto the plane itself.
>
> It's not the engineering itself that bothers me. I've been up in
> choppers,
> ultralights, gliders, yadda, yadda. It's the human error that always
> lurks
> below the surface.
>
> Aircraft and subs have so many human layers of opportunity to mess up.
> From
> basic manufacturing issues (the welder had two hours of sleep and forgot a
> critical part) to delivery (the crate took a hit) to assembly (technician
> is
> preoccupied with personal issues) to airport management (the tower put you
> on the wrong runway), etc. I still love flying (going to Oshkosh in '07)
> and wouldn't ever dream of stopping.
>
> I'm sure you can add a dozen more examples. My buddy the pilot has faith
> in
> the engineering, too. However, he's as concerned with the human element
> as
> I am. That's probably his underlying reason. That and "drowning like a
> rat". :-)
>
> You may have something there about claustrophobia and it may be something
> to
> keep in mind for our passengers. For a sub it's a great idea - and often
> impractical - to have a second way out like another hatch or escape
> method.
>
> I put on a Mark V navy hat once. I did not like the feeling at all. Rat
> Hat not much better. Full face mask I can live with. Reaching for
> redundant air is so much easier with a seperate reg though. If the Mark V
> had a built in "alt-dot-reg" then I would be able to relax a little more.
> But dive in one? Ugh.
>
> Rick L
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I suspect this can be attributed to the psychology of (1) a confined
> space,
>> and (2) the possibility of drowning in same. I find my own lower limit
>> diameter wise,... is a K-350. The thought of squeezing into Sgt Peppers
>> is
> a
>> bit unnerving.
>>
>> I don't think the pressure and risk of implosion bothers laymen so
> much,....
>> ask most people what one atm of pressure =, and they will likely not
>> know.
>> It's the image of being trapped like a drowned rat that makes people
> queasy
>> about subs.
>>
>> The ultra light analogy is a risk where basic physics is in your favor. A
>> feather-light aircraft with an engine out, but still controllable
>> airframe
>> is quite an acceptable risk for a competent airman.
>>
>> A bungee jumper, on the other hand, relies less on personal ability, but
>> more so on complete faith in the mechanical integrity of the bungee and
>> attachments.
>>
>> Where PSUBS are concerned, I firmly believe, that if the vessel is sound
> and
>> maintained so, then the risk is directly proportional to the manner in
> which
>> it is operated.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: "Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>
>> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>> >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 10:41:45 -0700
>> >
>> >Funny how that looks to others . . . I have to agree that love - and
> art -
>> >is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.
>> >
>> >Echoing Patrick's observations, a friend of mine used to be an aerial
>> >photographer and shot from an ultralight. No parachute, no second
> chance.
>> >He turned into a glider pilot eight times over his career - eight
>> >engine-outs for one reason or another, all of them not his fault
>> >(believe
>> >it or not).
>> >
>> >He looks at me like I'm out of my mind - thinks just being u/w is
>> >outlandishly dangerous. Hates boats with a passion. Go figure.
>> >
>> >A submarine? Are you out of your mind?
>> >
>> >Rick L
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Patrick
>> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:00 AM
>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>> >
>> >
>> > To put it in further perspective;
>> > There have been many people in my peer group and at work whom
>> > have bungee jumped, skydived, raced cars, flown small craft, etc.
>> > whose jaw drops when they find out that yes, I have indeed piloted
>> > a mini-sub and plan to build one.
>> >
>> > -patrick
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: James Kocourek
>> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:21 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape Mockup
>> >
>> >
>> > I could'nt agree with you more Frank. As a former Dirt track racer,
>> >I've known some people who were seriously hurt and one who isn't here
>> >because of their chosen sport - none that I talked to would change if
> they
>> >could replay, I also am hoping to come out on the top side of this
>> >challenge - but if not - It sure beats watching TV.
>> >
>> > Sadly, Most live entire lives and never push the envelope!
>> >
>> > Great thoughts - Well said - Frank,
>> >
>> > Jim Kocourek
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
>> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:03 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape Mockup
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm not all that humble, but I'll tell you what I believe.
>> > The bulk of the men involved in this adventure have a pretty good
>> >idea of the risk involved.
>> > Extreme sports, of which this could be described by some
> outsiders,
>> >is all about pushing the envelope, and sometimes doing what is thought
>> >to
>> >be impossible by many.
>> > Scuba diving, hang gliding, down hill skiing, surfing the big
>> > ones
>> >in Hawaii, or any other FUN thing has it's risks. As professionals, any
>> >person capable of building his own sub, knows the need to minimize risks
>> >and plan for all contingencies, but still expect to die if the shit hits
>> >the fan.
>> > Although I grieve for the men and their families, I still envy
> them
>> >for their courage and imagination.
>> > Men are made by their desires, and driven by their dreams.
>> > The friends who perished were living those dreams, and probably
>> >wouldn't trade their lives for anyone's.
>> > Let's celebrate their achievements, and remember them as they
> would
>> >like to be remembered. Hero's of a new dimension for mankind ( the deep
> sea
>> >) and true explorers laying out a path for the rest of us to follow.
>> > Thanks, Frank D.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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