From psub101 at indy.rr.com  Wed Mar  5 07:21:24 2014
From: psub101 at indy.rr.com (Steve McQueen)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 07:21:24 -0500
Subject: [Member-Forum] Perry Thruster On eBay
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGwa1aY9RkB6xfQij78r34B_UakZXp+wM4h8ccAOJ241ig@mail.gmail.com>

Check out this item I found on eBay:

End time: Mar 10, 2014 10:04:49 PM

Item: Perry Slingsby Systems Hydraulic Thruster.Deep Submersible Submarine
ROV <http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452>

URL: http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452

Alt URL:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perry-Slingsby-Systems-Hydraulic-Thruster-Deep-Submersible-Submarine-ROV-/191089684452

(Sent from eBay Mobile for Android)
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From paul at steel-fish.com  Wed Mar  5 08:18:30 2014
From: paul at steel-fish.com (Paul Moorhouse)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 13:18:30 -0000
Subject: [Member-Forum] Perry Thruster On eBay
In-Reply-To: <CAAGGCGwa1aY9RkB6xfQij78r34B_UakZXp+wM4h8ccAOJ241ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGGCGwa1aY9RkB6xfQij78r34B_UakZXp+wM4h8ccAOJ241ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000601cf3875$67616940$36243bc0$@steel-fish.com>

Looks like they have the variable displacement motors on them to. Hydraulic
thrusters really suck away the battery power on a small sub. Motor
efficiency is rarely better than 60%, same with the pump so you end up with
40% useful power. 

Paul

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of
Steve McQueen
Sent: 05 March 2014 12:21
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Perry Thruster On eBay

 

Check out this item I found on eBay:

End time: Mar 10, 2014 10:04:49 PM

Item: Perry Slingsby Systems Hydraulic Thruster.Deep Submersible Submarine
ROV <http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452> 

URL: http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view
<http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452>
&id=191089684452

Alt URL:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perry-Slingsby-Systems-Hydraulic-Thruster-Deep-Subme
rsible-Submarine-ROV-/191089684452

(Sent from eBay Mobile for Android)

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From psub101 at indy.rr.com  Mon Mar 10 16:00:22 2014
From: psub101 at indy.rr.com (Steve McQueen)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:00:22 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Perry Thruster On eBay
In-Reply-To: <000601cf3875$67616940$36243bc0$@steel-fish.com>
References: <CAAGGCGwa1aY9RkB6xfQij78r34B_UakZXp+wM4h8ccAOJ241ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <000601cf3875$67616940$36243bc0$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGw-ckXsq+sdHmi2Yy3GJb-2-h89PRbJxb+Yw=YXryiTNg@mail.gmail.com>

Good info.  I just think it is interesting to see this stuff come up on the
internet.
Steve


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com> wrote:

> Looks like they have the variable displacement motors on them to.
> Hydraulic thrusters really suck away the battery power on a small sub.
> Motor efficiency is rarely better than 60%, same with the pump so you end
> up with 40% useful power.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *From:* Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Steve McQueen
> *Sent:* 05 March 2014 12:21
> *To:* PSUBS Member Discussion Group
> *Subject:* [Member-Forum] Perry Thruster On eBay
>
>
>
> Check out this item I found on eBay:
>
> End time: Mar 10, 2014 10:04:49 PM
>
> Item: Perry Slingsby Systems Hydraulic Thruster.Deep Submersible
> Submarine ROV<http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452>
>
> URL: http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452
>
> Alt URL:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perry-Slingsby-Systems-Hydraulic-Thruster-Deep-Submersible-Submarine-ROV-/191089684452
>
> (Sent from eBay Mobile for Android)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
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From 1982shovelhead at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 23:41:33 2014
From: 1982shovelhead at gmail.com (William Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 23:41:33 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Perry Thruster On eBay
In-Reply-To: <CAAGGCGw-ckXsq+sdHmi2Yy3GJb-2-h89PRbJxb+Yw=YXryiTNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGGCGwa1aY9RkB6xfQij78r34B_UakZXp+wM4h8ccAOJ241ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <000601cf3875$67616940$36243bc0$@steel-fish.com>
 <CAAGGCGw-ckXsq+sdHmi2Yy3GJb-2-h89PRbJxb+Yw=YXryiTNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMRzg50fGBPwkhXakx5pT4SwXYjtWrsJz6Ofja=1YypvdJDBww@mail.gmail.com>

Your right Steve. It is good to see people putting out real data for others
to chew on.


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:

> Good info.  I just think it is interesting to see this stuff come up on
> the internet.
> Steve
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>wrote:
>
>> Looks like they have the variable displacement motors on them to.
>> Hydraulic thrusters really suck away the battery power on a small sub.
>> Motor efficiency is rarely better than 60%, same with the pump so you end
>> up with 40% useful power.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Steve McQueen
>> *Sent:* 05 March 2014 12:21
>> *To:* PSUBS Member Discussion Group
>> *Subject:* [Member-Forum] Perry Thruster On eBay
>>
>>
>>
>> Check out this item I found on eBay:
>>
>> End time: Mar 10, 2014 10:04:49 PM
>>
>> Item: Perry Slingsby Systems Hydraulic Thruster.Deep Submersible
>> Submarine ROV<http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452>
>>
>> URL: http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=191089684452
>>
>> Alt URL:
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perry-Slingsby-Systems-Hydraulic-Thruster-Deep-Submersible-Submarine-ROV-/191089684452
>>
>> (Sent from eBay Mobile for Android)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Member-Forum mailing list
>> Member-Forum at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 01:17:14 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:17:14 -0700
Subject: [Member-Forum] Article
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEFOFFPQupquXkSJrB1tYFn+64DSwCjJQvbJLPHe1JGTKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,
Here is an article written on me and the SeaQuestor project as well as plug
for Psubs.org

http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub
/


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 10:40:59 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:40:59 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Article
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEFOFFPQupquXkSJrB1tYFn+64DSwCjJQvbJLPHe1JGTKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHHFyEFOFFPQupquXkSJrB1tYFn+64DSwCjJQvbJLPHe1JGTKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6SAR8QV07BbnNtcqW-rv17P1co22JJZ6MRvhsg26O+0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dave,

The part that jumped out to me was the possibility of a wet test in
September. Your project page still has just drawings, but I'm really
looking forward to seeing this one in the flesh!

Best,

Alec


On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:17 AM, David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Guys,
> Here is an article written on me and the SeaQuestor project as well as
> plug for Psubs.org
>
>
> http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub
> /
>
>
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
>
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Sat Mar 15 11:00:47 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 08:00:47 -0700
Subject: [Member-Forum] Article
Message-ID: <20140315080047.BE867C20@m0005309.ppops.net>

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From paul at steel-fish.com  Sat Mar 15 13:20:25 2014
From: paul at steel-fish.com (Paul Moorhouse)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:20:25 -0000
Subject: [Member-Forum] Article
In-Reply-To: <20140315080047.BE867C20@m0005309.ppops.net>
References: <20140315080047.BE867C20@m0005309.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <000a01cf4072$dbb47580$931d6080$@steel-fish.com>

I enjoyed the Seaquestor piece. Looking forward to some pictures. My wife views it as a sad but harmless obsession. As an ex diver and science teacher it does not all go straight past her. I am sure most wives realise there are far worse mid life crisis than subs.

Paul 

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: 15 March 2014 15:01
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Article

 

The part that jumped out for my wife was:  "When she realized her husband wasn?t just being silly or going through a phase, she approached him with her whole-hearted support."   Ah, Dave, my wife would like to talk to your wife.

 

Brian

--- seaquestor at gmail.com wrote:

From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: "member-forum at psubs.org" <Member-Forum at psubs.org>
Subject: [Member-Forum] Article
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:17:14 -0700

Hi Guys,

Here is an article written on me and the SeaQuestor project as well as plug for Psubs.org

http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub/

 

 

Best Regards,
David Colombo
  <https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/384615_253448681433508_1443740147_n.jpg> 
804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com

_______________________________________________ Member-Forum mailing list Member-Forum at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum 

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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 15 13:26:14 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Article
In-Reply-To: <000a01cf4072$dbb47580$931d6080$@steel-fish.com>
References: <20140315080047.BE867C20@m0005309.ppops.net>
 <000a01cf4072$dbb47580$931d6080$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <1394904374.47264.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Mine doesn't see a sub, she sees a trip to Tuscany gone bad!

Joe




On Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:21 PM, Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com> wrote:
 
I enjoyed the Seaquestor piece. Looking forward to some pictures. My wife views it as a sad but harmless obsession. As an ex diver and science teacher it does not all go straight past her. I am sure most wives realise there are far worse mid life crisis than subs.
Paul 
?
From:Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: 15 March 2014 15:01
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Article
?
The part that jumped out for my wife was:? "When she realized her husband wasn?t just being silly or going through a phase, she approached him with her whole-hearted support."?? Ah, Dave, my wife would like to talk to your wife.
?
Brian

--- seaquestor at gmail.com wrote:

From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: "member-forum at psubs.org" <Member-Forum at psubs.org>
Subject: [Member-Forum] Article
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:17:14 -0700
Hi Guys,
Here is an article written on me and the SeaQuestor project as well as plug for Psubs.org

http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub/
?
?
Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com
_______________________________________________ Member-Forum mailing list Member-Forum at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum 

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 24 23:54:34 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:54:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
Message-ID: <1395719674.43171.YahooMailIosMobile@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From paul at steel-fish.com  Tue Mar 25 05:10:06 2014
From: paul at steel-fish.com (Paul Moorhouse)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 09:10:06 -0000
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <1395719674.43171.YahooMailIosMobile@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395719674.43171.YahooMailIosMobile@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001201cf480a$040cbc10$0c263430$@steel-fish.com>

Joe

As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure
vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who
do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should
the need arise. 

Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have
developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so
running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces
much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant.
In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality
assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to
cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the
calculations being in metric but give me info in either. 

I would need to know

.        Outside diameter

.        Shell thickness

.        Shell material 

.        Frame material

.        Diving depth

.        Length of parallel body

.        Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.

.        Preferred frame spacing 

.        Inside or outside frames

I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very
pretty. 

The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here
also. 

 

This guy can thermo form your acrylic

http://www.airesearch.nl/

 

 

Regards

Paul

 

Paul Moorhouse

www.steel-fish.com

 

 

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe
Perkel
Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

 


Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell
thickness? I can't seem to find it now.

Joe <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS> 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 

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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Tue Mar 25 10:56:23 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 07:56:23 -0700
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
Message-ID: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>

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From greg at snyderemail.com  Tue Mar 25 11:15:26 2014
From: greg at snyderemail.com (greg at snyderemail.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:15:26 -0500
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
References: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <d994b6ccfad18b62bb365d579a5a9542.squirrel@webmail.snyderemail.com>

Hi Paul!
Greg Snyder here.
We spoke about the Lula about 10 years ago - (S103)
In my mind it is one of the best ships out there for personal use!

Now if I can get a torpedo mounted, I can go and retake Crimea for the West!
(or not...)

Best regards-
Greg Snyder

From paul at steel-fish.com  Tue Mar 25 11:19:23 2014
From: paul at steel-fish.com (Paul Moorhouse)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:19:23 -0000
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
References: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <001101cf483d$9ab2ae80$d0180b80$@steel-fish.com>

Hi Brian

My Triton friends are hugely relieved that the first of their German made spheres arrived last week and  has gone through pressure test already. They have three vehicles that are almost complete apart from the spheres. These 165mm thick spheres proved a step too far for conventional techniques and from three attempts only one serviceable sphere emerged from Stanley?s. It is a task beset with risks from start to finish and it was brave of them to attempt it. One finished sphere was lost on final anneal due to a power failure to the auto-clave over the week-end. 

 

The new spheres are made in a very different way employing thermo forming rather than traditional slush casting techniques. This results in excellent clarity. Keep glued to their web-site for progress. 

 

Paul

 

Paul Moorhouse

Design Engineer

 <mailto:paul at steel-fish.com> paul at steel-fish.com

 <http://www.steel-fish.com/> www.steel-fish.com

#44 7837 542878

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: 25 March 2014 14:56
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

 

Hi Paul,

                 On your web site it says  "The 3300/3 program has been dogged by acrylic manufacturing problems"  , do you mind if I ask what problems you encountered" ?

 

Brian

--- paul at steel-fish.com wrote:

From: "Paul Moorhouse" <paul at steel-fish.com>
To: "'PSUBS Member Discussion Group'" <member-forum at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 09:10:06 -0000

Joe

As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should the need arise. 

Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either. 

I would need to know

?        Outside diameter

?        Shell thickness

?        Shell material 

?        Frame material

?        Diving depth

?        Length of parallel body

?        Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.

?        Preferred frame spacing 

?        Inside or outside frames

I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very pretty. 

The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here also. 

 

This guy can thermo form your acrylic

http://www.airesearch.nl/

 

 

Regards

Paul

 

Paul Moorhouse

www.steel-fish.com

 

 

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe Perkel
Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

 


Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.

Joe <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS> 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 _______________________________________________ Member-Forum mailing list Member-Forum at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum 

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From paul at steel-fish.com  Tue Mar 25 11:23:25 2014
From: paul at steel-fish.com (Paul Moorhouse)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:23:25 -0000
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
References: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <001601cf483e$2b58dd10$820a9730$@steel-fish.com>

By lost I mean it cracked due to excess cooling rate. This is the main hazard with thick spheres as well as bubbles in the join and machining disasters. 

Paul

 

Paul Moorhouse

Design Engineer

 <mailto:paul at steel-fish.com> paul at steel-fish.com

 <http://www.steel-fish.com/> www.steel-fish.com

#44 7837 542878

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: 25 March 2014 14:56
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

 

Hi Paul,

                 On your web site it says  "The 3300/3 program has been dogged by acrylic manufacturing problems"  , do you mind if I ask what problems you encountered" ?

 

Brian

--- paul at steel-fish.com wrote:

From: "Paul Moorhouse" <paul at steel-fish.com>
To: "'PSUBS Member Discussion Group'" <member-forum at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 09:10:06 -0000

Joe

As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should the need arise. 

Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either. 

I would need to know

?        Outside diameter

?        Shell thickness

?        Shell material 

?        Frame material

?        Diving depth

?        Length of parallel body

?        Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.

?        Preferred frame spacing 

?        Inside or outside frames

I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very pretty. 

The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here also. 

 

This guy can thermo form your acrylic

http://www.airesearch.nl/

 

 

Regards

Paul

 

Paul Moorhouse

www.steel-fish.com

 

 

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe Perkel
Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

 


Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.

Joe <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS> 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 _______________________________________________ Member-Forum mailing list Member-Forum at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum 

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From paul at steel-fish.com  Tue Mar 25 11:35:24 2014
From: paul at steel-fish.com (Paul Moorhouse)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:35:24 -0000
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <d994b6ccfad18b62bb365d579a5a9542.squirrel@webmail.snyderemail.com>
References: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <d994b6ccfad18b62bb365d579a5a9542.squirrel@webmail.snyderemail.com>
Message-ID: <002701cf483f$d75587c0$86009740$@steel-fish.com>

Hi Greg
Ha, us Brits went there before and helped the Turks take it off the
Russians. I think it would be a lot harder this time. Best leave it to the
Russians perhaps, pretend we are not that bothered. 

But yes, Lula is a great simple format, a bit like an updated Perry boat
with a diesel engine. FRN are working on a 1,000 metre boat now made from
Duplex stainless. 
Paul 



-----Original Message-----
From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of
greg at snyderemail.com
Sent: 25 March 2014 15:15
To: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com; PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

Hi Paul!
Greg Snyder here.
We spoke about the Lula about 10 years ago - (S103) In my mind it is one of
the best ships out there for personal use!

Now if I can get a torpedo mounted, I can go and retake Crimea for the West!
(or not...)

Best regards-
Greg Snyder
_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7243 - Release Date: 03/25/14


From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 25 16:01:13 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 13:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <001101cf483d$9ab2ae80$d0180b80$@steel-fish.com>
References: <20140325075623.BE831EEB@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <001101cf483d$9ab2ae80$d0180b80$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <1395777673.33731.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul,
can you tell us a bit more about the thermo forming of the 165mm sphere.
Was it pressed in to a female mold? Was it from a cell cast acrylic sheet especially made?
I am wanting to thermo form a 700mm dome for 500ft, so gleaning all I can about the process.
Guy Richards from Blanson spoke on some of their failures, at the recent U.I. convention;
in particular about gluing a 4" thick sphere which he told me later was for Triton. They
overcame the problem of the glue bubbling by adding more pre polymerized MMA & going
to a German glue.
Saw your video that showed the piece of wood embedded in the dome Stanley made for you.?
What a tragedy.
Regards Alan?


________________________________
 From: Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>
To: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com; 'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <member-forum at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
 


Hi Brian
My Triton friends are hugely relieved that the first of their German made spheres arrived last week and ?has gone through pressure test already. They have three vehicles that are almost complete apart from the spheres. These 165mm thick spheres proved a step too far for conventional techniques and from three attempts only one serviceable sphere emerged from Stanley?s. It is a task beset with risks from start to finish and it was brave of them to attempt it. One finished sphere was lost on final anneal due to a power failure to the auto-clave over the week-end. 
?
The new spheres are made in a very different way employing thermo forming rather than traditional slush casting techniques. This results in excellent clarity. Keep glued to their web-site for progress. 
?
Paul
?
Paul Moorhouse
Design Engineer
paul at steel-fish.com
www.steel-fish.com
#44 7837 542878
?
From:Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: 25 March 2014 14:56
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
?
Hi Paul,
???????????????? On your web site it says? "The 3300/3 program has been dogged by acrylic manufacturing problems"? , do you mind if I ask what problems you encountered" ?
?
Brian

--- paul at steel-fish.com wrote:

From: "Paul Moorhouse" <paul at steel-fish.com>
To: "'PSUBS Member Discussion Group'" <member-forum at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 09:10:06 -0000
Joe
As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should the need arise. 
Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either. 
I would need to know
???????? Outside diameter
???????? Shell thickness
???????? Shell material 
???????? Frame material
???????? Diving depth
???????? Length of parallel body
???????? Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.
???????? Preferred frame spacing 
???????? Inside or outside frames
I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very pretty. 
The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here also. 
?
This guy can thermo form your acrylic
http://www.airesearch.nl/
?
?
Regards
Paul
?
Paul Moorhouse
www.steel-fish.com
?
?
?
From:Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe Perkel
Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
?
Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
?_______________________________________________ Member-Forum mailing list Member-Forum at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum 

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 25 19:38:16 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:38:16 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <001201cf480a$040cbc10$0c263430$@steel-fish.com>
References: <1395719674.43171.YahooMailIosMobile@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <001201cf480a$040cbc10$0c263430$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <D5093DE1-461F-44EF-9B81-DCA1D7D15187@yahoo.com>

Paul,

Two earlier responses from me went wayward. If this one posts, then the problem is my iPad. 

Thank you for your input and offer. I need to do some number crunching when I get home from my current trip so as to reach a couple of those decision points you mentioned.

Thanks again!

Joe 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 25, 2014, at 5:10 AM, "Paul Moorhouse" <paul at steel-fish.com> wrote:

> Joe
> As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should the need arise.
> Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either.
> I would need to know
> ?        Outside diameter
> ?        Shell thickness
> ?        Shell material
> ?        Frame material
> ?        Diving depth
> ?        Length of parallel body
> ?        Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.
> ?        Preferred frame spacing
> ?        Inside or outside frames
> I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very pretty.
> The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here also.
>  
> This guy can thermo form your acrylic
> http://www.airesearch.nl/
>  
>  
> Regards
> Paul
>  
> Paul Moorhouse
> www.steel-fish.com
>  
>  
>  
> From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe Perkel
> Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
> To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
> Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
>  
> Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 25 10:10:40 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 07:10:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <001201cf480a$040cbc10$0c263430$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <1395756640.40463.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul,<br/><br/>The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W ratio to change by build time! <br/><br/>I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell T, but can't find it again. <br/><br/>I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until later this week to do some number crunching.<br/><br/>Thanks Paul!<br/><br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 25 12:00:01 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 09:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <001201cf480a$040cbc10$0c263430$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <1395763201.17098.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul,<br/><br/>The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W ratio to change by build time! <br/><br/>I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell T, but can't find it again. <br/><br/>I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until later this week to do some number crunching.<br/><br/>Thanks Paul!<br/><br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 26 08:27:30 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 05:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <1395763201.17098.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395836850.63553.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Wow, 24+ hours for email delivery and doubled to boot. <br/><br/>Can iPads go insane?<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From stillphototheater at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 26 09:17:30 2014
From: stillphototheater at yahoo.com (Dan Still)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 06:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <1395836850.63553.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395763201.17098.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395836850.63553.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395839850.52611.YahooMailNeo@web122103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Anything with chips in them hate humans.



On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:29 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Wow, 24+ hours for email delivery and doubled to boot. 

Can iPads go insane?

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 



________________________________
 From:  Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>; 
To:  member-forum at psubs.org <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia 
Sent:  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:00:01 PM 


Hi Paul,

The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W ratio to change by build time! 

I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell T, but can't find it again. 

I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until later this week
 to do some number crunching.

Thanks Paul!


Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

Sent from Yahoo Mail for
 iPad 



________________________________
 From:  Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>; 
To:  'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia 
Sent:  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 9:10:06 AM 


Joe
As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should the need arise. 
Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either. 
I would need to know
???????? Outside diameter
???????? Shell thickness
???????? Shell material 
???????? Frame material
???????? Diving depth
???????? Length of parallel body
???????? Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.
???????? Preferred frame spacing 
???????? Inside or outside frames
I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very pretty. 
The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here also. 
?
This guy can thermo form your acrylic
http://www.airesearch.nl/
?
?
Regards
Paul
?
Paul Moorhouse
www.steel-fish.com
?
?
?
From:Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe Perkel
Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
?
Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
?  

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Wed Mar 26 19:48:25 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 19:48:25 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <1395839850.52611.YahooMailNeo@web122103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395763201.17098.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395836850.63553.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395839850.52611.YahooMailNeo@web122103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjn+fM9J1yv45B5xK4bBmqCcC8BdxscvXtUeXuKRH3yX99A@mail.gmail.com>

"Hi Paul,
can you tell us a bit more about the thermo forming of the 165mm sphere"

I too am interested in hearing more about how such a thick personnel sphere
is manufactured. Sounds like a daunting and frustrating task (with the
multiple failures mentioned). ~ Douglas S.


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Dan Still <stillphototheater at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Anything with chips in them hate humans.
>
>
>   On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:29 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>  Wow, 24+ hours for email delivery and doubled to boot.
>
> Can iPads go insane?
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>  ------------------------------
> * From: * Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>;
> * To: * member-forum at psubs.org <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
> * Sent: * Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:00:01 PM
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the
> shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and
> handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale
> r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W
> ratio to change by build time!
>
> I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion
> issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section
> drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell
> T, but can't find it again.
>
> I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until
> later this week to do some number crunching.
>
> Thanks Paul!
>
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>  ------------------------------
> * From: * Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>;
> * To: * 'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
> * Sent: * Tue, Mar 25, 2014 9:10:06 AM
>
> Joe
> As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine
> pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the
> forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at
> PSUBS should the need arise.
> Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have
> developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so
> running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces
> much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical
> plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on
> quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction.
> So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all
> of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either.
> I would need to know
> ?        Outside diameter
> ?        Shell thickness
> ?        Shell material
> ?        Frame material
> ?        Diving depth
> ?        Length of parallel body
> ?        Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.
> ?        Preferred frame spacing
> ?        Inside or outside frames
> I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very
> pretty.
> The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here
> also.
>
> This guy can thermo form your acrylic
> http://www.airesearch.nl/
>
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
> Paul Moorhouse
> www.steel-fish.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Joe Perkel
> *Sent:* 25 March 2014 03:55
> *To:* PSUBS Member Discussion Group
> *Subject:* [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
>
> Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to
> shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
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From paul at steel-fish.com  Thu Mar 27 06:05:14 2014
From: paul at steel-fish.com (Paul Moorhouse)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 10:05:14 -0000
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjn+fM9J1yv45B5xK4bBmqCcC8BdxscvXtUeXuKRH3yX99A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395763201.17098.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395836850.63553.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395839850.52611.YahooMailNeo@web122103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOGJjn+fM9J1yv45B5xK4bBmqCcC8BdxscvXtUeXuKRH3yX99A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003d01cf49a4$0ce78f40$26b6adc0$@steel-fish.com>

Hi Douglas

The traditional method was to cast using a slush of polymerised powder and
liquid resin to keep the exotherm heat under control. The moulds were often
quite rudimentary and the shrinkage large so massive over thickness is
required to get what you want out of the casting. The thicker it is the more
difficult it is to keep to a cooling rate that will not cause cracks. Once
it has cracked, it is scrap. This is quite a contrast to how the material
behaves at normal diving temperatures where it is extremely forgiving and in
some configurations will extrude in preference to cracking. During the
Alicia development we did a series of destructive model tests and the
acrylic is definitely the toughest part of the submarine. We had an
instrumentation cable port in the top of the test chamber that lead the
wires out from the strain gauges on the inside surface of the test sphere.
When they went bang at around 2,500 metres bits of acrylic came out of this
? hole and went clean through the roof of the building. We had to make a
plastic plug to keep the debris inside the chamber. 

 

The German company making spheres for Triton are holding their cards close
to their chest right now. I am hoping to be able to write about it when they
they feel the time is right but for now the details remain under wraps. What
I can tell you is they start with cell cast blocks over 200mm thick that
have been slow polymerised under closely controlled conditions from 100%
liquid. This increases the length of the polymer chains with superior
mechanical properties as a result. These blocks are then heated and slowly
squeezed between two metal formers to create the basic hemispheres. After
machining and polishing the two hemispheres are bonded together using
another new technique that produces a bond that is almost invisible and
defect free.  

 

The new spheres are quite definitely the best that have ever been made. 

 

Paul

 

Paul Moorhouse

Design Engineer

 <mailto:paul at steel-fish.com> paul at steel-fish.com

 <http://www.steel-fish.com/> www.steel-fish.com

#44 7837 542878

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of
Douglas Suhr
Sent: 26 March 2014 23:48
To: Dan Still; PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

 

"Hi Paul,

can you tell us a bit more about the thermo forming of the 165mm sphere" 

 

I too am interested in hearing more about how such a thick personnel sphere
is manufactured. Sounds like a daunting and frustrating task (with the
multiple failures mentioned). ~ Douglas S. 

 

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Dan Still <stillphototheater at yahoo.com>
wrote:

Anything with chips in them hate humans.

 

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:29 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
wrote:


Wow, 24+ hours for email delivery and doubled to boot. 

Can iPads go insane?

Joe <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 

  _____  

From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>; 
To: member-forum at psubs.org <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia 
Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:00:01 PM 

 



Hi Paul,

The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the
shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and
handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale
r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W ratio
to change by build time! 

I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion
issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section
drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell
T, but can't find it again. 

I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until
later this week to do some number crunching.

Thanks Paul!


Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 

  _____  

From: Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>; 
To: 'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia 
Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 9:10:06 AM 

 


Joe

As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure
vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who
do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should
the need arise. 

Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have
developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so
running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces
much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant.
In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality
assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to
cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the
calculations being in metric but give me info in either. 

I would need to know

?        Outside diameter

?        Shell thickness

?        Shell material 

?        Frame material

?        Diving depth

?        Length of parallel body

?        Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.

?        Preferred frame spacing 

?        Inside or outside frames

I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very
pretty. 

The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here
also. 

 

This guy can thermo form your acrylic

http://www.airesearch.nl/

 

 

Regards

Paul

 

Paul Moorhouse

www.steel-fish.com <http://www.steel-fish.com/> 

 

 

 

From: Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe
Perkel
Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia

 


Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell
thickness? I can't seem to find it now.

Joe <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 

 

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum

 


_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 08:08:35 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:08:35 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <003d01cf49a4$0ce78f40$26b6adc0$@steel-fish.com>
References: <1395763201.17098.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395836850.63553.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395839850.52611.YahooMailNeo@web122103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOGJjn+fM9J1yv45B5xK4bBmqCcC8BdxscvXtUeXuKRH3yX99A@mail.gmail.com>
 <003d01cf49a4$0ce78f40$26b6adc0$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnKo7qVmm5MAk5DHUxFoGtVos1m292+uxkYXz-xUepP7BQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Paul, that is very interesting. ~ Douglas S.


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:05 AM, Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com> wrote:

> Hi Douglas
>
> The traditional method was to cast using a slush of polymerised powder and
> liquid resin to keep the exotherm heat under control. The moulds were often
> quite rudimentary and the shrinkage large so massive over thickness is
> required to get what you want out of the casting. The thicker it is the
> more difficult it is to keep to a cooling rate that will not cause cracks.
> Once it has cracked, it is scrap. This is quite a contrast to how the
> material behaves at normal diving temperatures where it is extremely
> forgiving and in some configurations will extrude in preference to
> cracking. During the Alicia development we did a series of destructive
> model tests and the acrylic is definitely the toughest part of the
> submarine. We had an instrumentation cable port in the top of the test
> chamber that lead the wires out from the strain gauges on the inside
> surface of the test sphere. When they went bang at around 2,500 metres bits
> of acrylic came out of this ? hole and went clean through the roof of the
> building. We had to make a plastic plug to keep the debris inside the
> chamber.
>
>
>
> The German company making spheres for Triton are holding their cards close
> to their chest right now. I am hoping to be able to write about it when
> they they feel the time is right but for now the details remain under
> wraps. What I can tell you is they start with cell cast blocks over 200mm
> thick that have been slow polymerised under closely controlled conditions
> from 100% liquid. This increases the length of the polymer chains with
> superior mechanical properties as a result. These blocks are then heated
> and slowly squeezed between two metal formers to create the basic
> hemispheres. After machining and polishing the two hemispheres are bonded
> together using another new technique that produces a bond that is almost
> invisible and defect free.
>
>
>
> The new spheres are quite definitely the best that have ever been made.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *Paul Moorhouse*
>
> Design Engineer
>
> paul at steel-fish.com
>
> www.steel-fish.com
>
> #44 7837 542878
>
>
>
> *From:* Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Douglas Suhr
> *Sent:* 26 March 2014 23:48
> *To:* Dan Still; PSUBS Member Discussion Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
>
>
>
> "Hi Paul,
>
> can you tell us a bit more about the thermo forming of the 165mm sphere"
>
>
>
> I too am interested in hearing more about how such a thick personnel
> sphere is manufactured. Sounds like a daunting and frustrating task (with
> the multiple failures mentioned). ~ Douglas S.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Dan Still <stillphototheater at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Anything with chips in them hate humans.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:29 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wow, 24+ hours for email delivery and doubled to boot.
>
> Can iPads go insane?
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>;
> *To: *member-forum at psubs.org <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> *Subject: *Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
> *Sent: *Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:00:01 PM
>
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the
> shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and
> handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale
> r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W
> ratio to change by build time!
>
> I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion
> issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section
> drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell
> T, but can't find it again.
>
> I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until
> later this week to do some number crunching.
>
> Thanks Paul!
>
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>;
> *To: *'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> *Subject: *Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
> *Sent: *Tue, Mar 25, 2014 9:10:06 AM
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine
> pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the
> forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at
> PSUBS should the need arise.
>
> Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have
> developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so
> running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces
> much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical
> plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on
> quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction.
> So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all
> of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either.
>
> I would need to know
>
> ?        Outside diameter
>
> ?        Shell thickness
>
> ?        Shell material
>
> ?        Frame material
>
> ?        Diving depth
>
> ?        Length of parallel body
>
> ?        Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.
>
> ?        Preferred frame spacing
>
> ?        Inside or outside frames
>
> I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very
> pretty.
>
> The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here
> also.
>
>
>
> This guy can thermo form your acrylic
>
> http://www.airesearch.nl/
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul Moorhouse
>
> www.steel-fish.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Joe Perkel
> *Sent:* 25 March 2014 03:55
> *To:* PSUBS Member Discussion Group
> *Subject:* [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
>
>
>
> Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to
> shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 04:43:02 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 01:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <003d01cf49a4$0ce78f40$26b6adc0$@steel-fish.com>
References: <1395763201.17098.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395836850.63553.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395839850.52611.YahooMailNeo@web122103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOGJjn+fM9J1yv45B5xK4bBmqCcC8BdxscvXtUeXuKRH3yX99A@mail.gmail.com>
 <003d01cf49a4$0ce78f40$26b6adc0$@steel-fish.com>
Message-ID: <1395996182.57872.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Paul,
they must be using a powerful press for that dome forming process.
Any more info when it comes would be appreciated.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>
To: 'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <member-forum at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
 


Hi Douglas
The traditional method was to cast using a slush of polymerised powder and liquid resin to keep the exotherm heat under control. The moulds were often quite rudimentary and the shrinkage large so massive over thickness is required to get what you want out of the casting. The thicker it is the more difficult it is to keep to a cooling rate that will not cause cracks. Once it has cracked, it is scrap. This is quite a contrast to how the material behaves at normal diving temperatures where it is extremely forgiving and in some configurations will extrude in preference to cracking. During the Alicia development we did a series of destructive model tests and the acrylic is definitely the toughest part of the submarine. We had an instrumentation cable port in the top of the test chamber that lead the wires out from the strain gauges on the inside surface of the test sphere. When they went bang at around 2,500 metres bits of acrylic came out of this ? hole and
 went clean through the roof of the building. We had to make a plastic plug to keep the debris inside the chamber. 
?
The German company making spheres for Triton are holding their cards close to their chest right now. I am hoping to be able to write about it when they they feel the time is right but for now the details remain under wraps. What I can tell you is they start with cell cast blocks over 200mm thick that have been slow polymerised under closely controlled conditions from 100% liquid. This increases the length of the polymer chains with superior mechanical properties as a result. These blocks are then heated and slowly squeezed between two metal formers to create the basic hemispheres. After machining and polishing the two hemispheres are bonded together using another new technique that produces a bond that is almost invisible and defect free. ?
?
The new spheres are quite definitely the best that have ever been made. 
?
Paul
?
Paul Moorhouse
Design Engineer
paul at steel-fish.com
www.steel-fish.com
#44 7837 542878
?
From:Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Suhr
Sent: 26 March 2014 23:48
To: Dan Still; PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
?
"Hi Paul,
can you tell us a bit more about the thermo forming of the 165mm sphere"?
?
I too am interested in hearing more about how such a thick personnel sphere is manufactured. Sounds like a daunting and frustrating task (with the multiple failures mentioned). ~ Douglas S.?
?
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Dan Still <stillphototheater at yahoo.com> wrote:
Anything with chips in them hate humans.
?
On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:29 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Wow, 24+ hours for email delivery and doubled to boot. 

Can iPads go insane?

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
?

________________________________

From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>; 
To: member-forum at psubs.org <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia 
Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:00:01 PM 
?
Hi Paul,

The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W ratio to change by build time! 

I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell T, but can't find it again. 

I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until later this week to do some number crunching.

Thanks Paul!


Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
?

________________________________

From: Paul Moorhouse <paul at steel-fish.com>; 
To: 'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia 
Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 9:10:06 AM 
?
Joe
As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should the need arise. 
Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either. 
I would need to know
???????? Outside diameter
???????? Shell thickness
???????? Shell material 
???????? Frame material
???????? Diving depth
???????? Length of parallel body
???????? Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.
???????? Preferred frame spacing 
???????? Inside or outside frames
I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very pretty. 
The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here also. 
?
This guy can thermo form your acrylic
http://www.airesearch.nl/
?
?
Regards
Paul
?
Paul Moorhouse
www.steel-fish.com
?
?
?
From:Member-Forum [mailto:member-forum-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joe Perkel
Sent: 25 March 2014 03:55
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
?
Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
?  
?
_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
?

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
?

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From jonw at psubs.org  Fri Mar 28 09:07:49 2014
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:07:49 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <1395756640.40463.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395756640.40463.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53357425.2090305@psubs.org>


Hi Joe,

I don't recall ever seeing a rule of thumb for t-ribs.  The hull 
calculator worksheet on the website will let you see how rib dimensions 
affect the strength of the hull.  Sean Stevenson once gave a good 
explanation of the relationship between the hull and ribs but I can't 
find that email at the moment.  In general, and this is REALLY just a 
general statement, my experience with the hull calculator has shown that 
ribs of the same thickness as the hull, 4 times thickness for the web, 
and 6 times thickness for the flange, are appropriate.  That may not 
produce ideal results in every instance, but for conceptual 
rule-of-thumb it should be adequate.

Jon


On 3/25/2014 10:10 AM, Joe Perkel wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing 
> the shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to 
> weight and handling issues however, several members have made a 
> compelling rationale r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and 
> should expect that L to W ratio to change by build time!
>
> I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and 
> corrosion issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a 
> cross section drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H 
> relationship to shell T, but can't find it again.
>
> I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be 
> until later this week to do some number crunching.
>
> Thanks Paul!
>
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> **

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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 10:27:37 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 07:27:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia
In-Reply-To: <53357425.2090305@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <1396016857.54325.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Jon,<br/><br/>I like it, I'll look it over closer when I get home.<br/><br/>There's a bit of trepidation for an amateur to tread new design territory, but you're  correct we have tools available to maintain a safe conservative approach.<br/><br/>Thanks!<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 14:21:13 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 11:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
Message-ID: <1396203673.20343.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.<br/><br/>That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this medium? Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar 30 14:47:58 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 11:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396203673.20343.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396203673.20343.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396205278.47285.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
If your thinking about using these graphics on your sub, I would say it will work fine.? I would buy some today and put some on a painted chunk of steel plate and throw it in the ocean where you can retrieve it over time.? I once did that with a sample piece of hull plate for my boat.? I sprayed it with box liner and did a one year submerged test.? 
Hank
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:21:33 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.

That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this medium? Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 15:19:36 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396205278.47285.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396207176.94403.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,<br/><br/>Yes, but in areas not expected to have friction contact. Specifically, on acrylic to camouflage a window/port and its frame.<br/><br/>Why in the world would I want to do that you say?<br/><br/>I have an idea for a spectacular graphic of a Kraken complete with domes for eyes on the CT. See attached image. A sort of "steam punk" meets Nazi U-boat effect. Picture it on my Seehund.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/><a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 15:21:04 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:21:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396203673.20343.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396203673.20343.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396207264.14136.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,?
google "vinyl wrap boat" & you'll come up with an affirmative answer.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
 


Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.

That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this medium? Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 15:25:18 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396207264.14136.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396207518.26546.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,<br/><br/>Excellent!! Pretty spectacular stuff right off the bat!<br/><br/>You are the google master!<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar 30 15:30:56 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:30:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396207518.26546.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396207264.14136.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396207518.26546.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396207856.76943.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
You are quite a creative guy!? I am not sure I would want a camouflaged militarized looking submarine plying the waters in the USA.? You guys take security quite seriously.
Hank??
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 1:25:18 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Alan,

Excellent!! Pretty spectacular stuff right off the bat!

You are the google master!

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad  



________________________________
 From:  Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
To:  PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics 
Sent:  Sun, Mar 30, 2014 7:21:04 PM 
 

Joe,?
google "vinyl wrap boat" & you'll come up with an affirmative answer.
Alan
 

________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:21 AM
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
  


Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.

That's the question of the day, anyone with
 any experience in this medium? Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum


        

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 15:34:23 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:34:23 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396207856.76943.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396207264.14136.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396207518.26546.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1396207856.76943.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BA124706-0B89-4044-AE24-7C2A6FB3F2DE@yahoo.com>

Yep!

The Kraken kinda nips that in the bud doesn't it?
Complete with fish fins on the torpedoes!

Thanks Hank!

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 30, 2014, at 3:30 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Joe,
> You are quite a creative guy!  I am not sure I would want a camouflaged militarized looking submarine plying the waters in the USA.  You guys take security quite seriously.
> Hank  
> On Sunday, March 30, 2014 1:25:18 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Alan,
> 
> Excellent!! Pretty spectacular stuff right off the bat!
> 
> You are the google master!
> 
> Joe
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
> 
> From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
> To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
> Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics 
> Sent: Sun, Mar 30, 2014 7:21:04 PM 
> 
> Joe, 
> google "vinyl wrap boat" & you'll come up with an affirmative answer.
> Alan
> 
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:21 AM
> Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
> 
> Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.
> 
> That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this medium? Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?
> 
> Joe
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 16:36:01 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 13:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396207176.94403.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396205278.47285.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396207176.94403.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396211761.424.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
I'm not sure how the vinyl is stuck on. You would have to make sure that
any chemicals are compatible with acrylic & won't cause it to craze.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>; "member-forum at psubs.org" <member-forum at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
 


Hank,

Yes, but in areas not expected to have friction contact. Specifically, on acrylic to camouflage a window/port and its frame.

Why in the world would I want to do that you say?

I have an idea for a spectacular graphic of a Kraken complete with domes for eyes on the CT. See attached image. A sort of "steam punk" meets Nazi U-boat effect. Picture it on my Seehund.

Joe



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 



________________________________
 From:  hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>; 
To:  PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics 
Sent:  Sun, Mar 30, 2014 6:47:58 PM 


Joe,
If your thinking about using these graphics on your sub, I would say it will work fine.? I would buy some today and put some on a painted chunk of steel plate and throw it in the ocean where you can retrieve it over time.? I once did that with a sample piece of hull plate for my boat.? I sprayed it with box liner and did a one year submerged test.? 
Hank
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:21:33 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.

That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this
 medium? Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum


 

_______________________________________________
Member-Forum mailing list
Member-Forum at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 17:06:28 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 14:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396211761.424.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396213588.99382.YahooMailIosMobile@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,<br/><br/>Good point!<br/><br/>In that case for my intended purpose, a free flooding dome overlay over a flat port could do the job and be homemade. The attach frames could have the limber holes. I'm thinking pupil and iris here viewed externally. If visibility is too adversely compromised, then I keep it clear. In any case, clever placement of reflective lighting will have a distinct "Hollywood" effect for night ops.<br/><br/>Let me ask you this. If I wanted to do the Kraken overlay in some type of 3d relief, what medium crosses your mind as a contender? I'm thinking some type of airbrushed layering?<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sun Mar 30 19:41:02 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:41:02 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396213588.99382.YahooMailIosMobile@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396211761.424.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396213588.99382.YahooMailIosMobile@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjn+1kALrxUmAHtgiVj4LUjPfK8EW1_wQz++B+LKn7w2AWA@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome design idea Joe. I'm not sure what its going to be, but one day you
are going to have a really cool sub of some sort! I have actually been
thinking about vinyl graphics myself lately because I am looking for a
simple way to do the clownfish scheme on the sportsub hull.

I'm going to have the hull painted professionally, but instead of having a
really expensive custom job, I was thinking about just getting the whole
thing painted orange and then having vinyl graphics of the white w/ black
trim printed up to stick on back at the tail, amidships and nose for a
quicker finnish.

Obviously I am counting on the graphics eventually getting torn, scratched
and/or dirty, so I'll have some back up decals on stand-by.

Another thing I really like about the graphics instead of a pure paint job
is that if I ever get sick of the clownfish scheme I could do a coast
guard/rescue sub. ~ Douglas S.


On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Alan,
>
> Good point!
>
> In that case for my intended purpose, a free flooding dome overlay over a
> flat port could do the job and be homemade. The attach frames could have
> the limber holes. I'm thinking pupil and iris here viewed externally. If
> visibility is too adversely compromised, then I keep it clear. In any case,
> clever placement of reflective lighting will have a distinct "Hollywood"
> effect for night ops.
>
> Let me ask you this. If I wanted to do the Kraken overlay in some type of
> 3d relief, what medium crosses your mind as a contender? I'm thinking some
> type of airbrushed layering?
>
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS>
>
>  ------------------------------
> * From: * Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;
> * To: * PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
> * Sent: * Sun, Mar 30, 2014 8:36:01 PM
>
>   Joe,
> I'm not sure how the vinyl is stuck on. You would have to make sure that
> any chemicals are compatible with acrylic & won't cause it to craze.
> Alan
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> *To:* "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>; "
> member-forum at psubs.org" <member-forum at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 31, 2014 8:19 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
>
> Hank,
>
> Yes, but in areas not expected to have friction contact. Specifically, on
> acrylic to camouflage a window/port and its frame.
>
> Why in the world would I want to do that you say?
>
> I have an idea for a spectacular graphic of a Kraken complete with domes
> for eyes on the CT. See attached image. A sort of "steam punk" meets Nazi
> U-boat effect. Picture it on my Seehund.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>  ------------------------------
> * From: * hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>;
> * To: * PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
> * Sent: * Sun, Mar 30, 2014 6:47:58 PM
>
> Joe,
> If your thinking about using these graphics on your sub, I would say it
> will work fine.  I would buy some today and put some on a painted chunk of
> steel plate and throw it in the ocean where you can retrieve it over time.
> I once did that with a sample piece of hull plate for my boat.  I sprayed
> it with box liner and did a one year submerged test.
> Hank
>   On Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:21:33 PM, Joe Perkel <
> josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be
> quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see
> through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic
> expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.
>
> That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this medium?
> Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Member-Forum mailing list
> Member-Forum at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 21:14:27 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjn+1kALrxUmAHtgiVj4LUjPfK8EW1_wQz++B+LKn7w2AWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1396211761.424.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396213588.99382.YahooMailIosMobile@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOGJjn+1kALrxUmAHtgiVj4LUjPfK8EW1_wQz++B+LKn7w2AWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1396228467.2753.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi Douglas,
?
I'm not sure either!
?
The one sure thing?in?these intervening years leading up to a build is that the learning curve continues to climb on these various applicable processes. The result hopefully being the end product you predict.
?
I like the look of a clown fish for the SportSub, it's a natural fit. That design would also look good dressed as various other colorful reef critters. Sergeant Major, Yellow Tang, Lion Fish come to mind. Another out of the box look would be an Angler Fish, although that would have to be really done well to pull it off.
?
Thanks Douglas!
?
Joe
?
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 7:42 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:
  
Awesome design idea Joe. I'm not sure what its going to be, but one day you are going to have a really cool sub of some sort! I have actually been thinking about vinyl graphics myself lately because I am looking for a simple way to do the clownfish scheme on the sportsub hull.?

I'm going to have the hull painted professionally, but instead of having a really expensive custom job, I was thinking about just getting the whole thing painted orange and then having vinyl graphics of the white w/ black trim printed up to stick on back at the tail, amidships and nose for a quicker finnish.? 

Obviously I am counting on the graphics eventually getting torn, scratched and/or dirty, so I'll have some back up decals on stand-by.?

Another thing I really like about the graphics instead of a pure paint job is that if I ever get sick of the clownfish scheme I could do a coast guard/rescue sub. ~ Douglas S.? 



On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

Alan,
>
>Good point!
>
>In that case for my intended purpose, a free flooding dome overlay over a flat port could do the job and be homemade. The attach frames could have the limber holes. I'm thinking pupil and iris here viewed externally. If visibility is too adversely compromised, then I keep it clear. In any case, clever placement of reflective lighting will have a distinct "Hollywood" effect for night ops.
>
>Let me ask you this. If I wanted to do the Kraken overlay in some type of 3d relief, what medium crosses your mind as a contender? I'm thinking some type of airbrushed layering?
>
>
>Joe
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad  
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From:  Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
>
>To:  PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
>Subject:  Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics 
>Sent:  Sun, Mar 30, 2014 8:36:01 PM 
>
>
>
>Joe,
>I'm not sure how the vinyl is stuck on. You would have to make sure that
>any chemicals are compatible with acrylic & won't cause it to craze.
>Alan
>
> 
>
>________________________________
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
>To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>; "member-forum at psubs.org" <member-forum at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 8:19 AM
>Subject: Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
>  
>
>
>Hank,
>
>Yes, but in areas not expected to have friction contact. Specifically, on acrylic to camouflage a window/port and its frame.
>
>Why in the world would I want to do that you say?
>
>I have an idea for a spectacular graphic of a Kraken complete with domes for eyes on the CT. See attached image. A sort of "steam punk" meets Nazi U-boat effect. Picture it on my Seehund.
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad  
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From:  hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>; 
>To:  PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>; 
>Subject:  Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics 
>Sent:  Sun, Mar 30, 2014 6:47:58 PM 
> 
>
>Joe,
>If your thinking about using these graphics on your sub, I would say it will work fine.? I would buy some today and put some on a painted chunk of steel plate and throw it in the ocean where you can retrieve it over time.? I once did that with a sample piece of hull plate for my boat.? I sprayed it with box liner and did a one year submerged test.?  
>Hank
>On Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:21:33 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.
>
>That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this
 medium? Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?
>
>Joe
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
>_______________________________________________
>Member-Forum mailing list
>Member-Forum at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Member-Forum mailing list
>Member-Forum at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/member-forum
>
>
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sun Mar 30 23:02:11 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:02:11 -0400
Subject: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
In-Reply-To: <1396228467.2753.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396211761.424.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396213588.99382.YahooMailIosMobile@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOGJjn+1kALrxUmAHtgiVj4LUjPfK8EW1_wQz++B+LKn7w2AWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1396228467.2753.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnKGJjPiqO9vTeqQ26LymTfPjruw84d0ir8bYnkMXdEBhQ@mail.gmail.com>

All good suggestions Joe! ~ Douglas S.


On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:14 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Douglas,
>
> I'm not sure either!
>
> The one sure thing in these intervening years leading up to a build is
> that the learning curve continues to climb on these various applicable
> processes. The result hopefully being the end product you predict.
>
> I like the look of a clown fish for the SportSub, it's a natural fit. That
> design would also look good dressed as various other colorful reef
> critters. Sergeant Major, Yellow Tang, Lion Fish come to mind. Another out
> of the box look would be an Angler Fish, although that would have to be
> really done well to pull it off.
>
> Thanks Douglas!
>
> Joe
>
>   On Sunday, March 30, 2014 7:42 PM, Douglas Suhr <
> spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Awesome design idea Joe. I'm not sure what its going to be, but one day
> you are going to have a really cool sub of some sort! I have actually been
> thinking about vinyl graphics myself lately because I am looking for a
> simple way to do the clownfish scheme on the sportsub hull.
>
> I'm going to have the hull painted professionally, but instead of having a
> really expensive custom job, I was thinking about just getting the whole
> thing painted orange and then having vinyl graphics of the white w/ black
> trim printed up to stick on back at the tail, amidships and nose for a
> quicker finnish.
>
> Obviously I am counting on the graphics eventually getting torn, scratched
> and/or dirty, so I'll have some back up decals on stand-by.
>
> Another thing I really like about the graphics instead of a pure paint job
> is that if I ever get sick of the clownfish scheme I could do a coast
> guard/rescue sub. ~ Douglas S.
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Alan,
>
> Good point!
>
> In that case for my intended purpose, a free flooding dome overlay over a
> flat port could do the job and be homemade. The attach frames could have
> the limber holes. I'm thinking pupil and iris here viewed externally. If
> visibility is too adversely compromised, then I keep it clear. In any case,
> clever placement of reflective lighting will have a distinct "Hollywood"
> effect for night ops.
>
> Let me ask you this. If I wanted to do the Kraken overlay in some type of
> 3d relief, what medium crosses your mind as a contender? I'm thinking some
> type of airbrushed layering?
>
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>   * From: * Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;
> * To: * PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
> * Sent: * Sun, Mar 30, 2014 8:36:01 PM
>
> Joe,
> I'm not sure how the vinyl is stuck on. You would have to make sure that
> any chemicals are compatible with acrylic & won't cause it to craze.
> Alan
>
>    *From:* Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> *To:* "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>; "
> member-forum at psubs.org" <member-forum at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 31, 2014 8:19 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
>
> Hank,
>
> Yes, but in areas not expected to have friction contact. Specifically, on
> acrylic to camouflage a window/port and its frame.
>
> Why in the world would I want to do that you say?
>
> I have an idea for a spectacular graphic of a Kraken complete with domes
> for eyes on the CT. See attached image. A sort of "steam punk" meets Nazi
> U-boat effect. Picture it on my Seehund.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
>   * From: * hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>;
> * To: * PSUBS Member Discussion Group <member-forum at psubs.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [Member-Forum] Vinyl Graphics
> * Sent: * Sun, Mar 30, 2014 6:47:58 PM
>
>  Joe,
> If your thinking about using these graphics on your sub, I would say it
> will work fine.  I would buy some today and put some on a painted chunk of
> steel plate and throw it in the ocean where you can retrieve it over time.
> I once did that with a sample piece of hull plate for my boat.  I sprayed
> it with box liner and did a one year submerged test.
> Hank
>   On Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:21:33 PM, Joe Perkel <
> josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  Those intricate vinyl graphics that appear on vehicles these days can be
> quite artistic and impressive. Of particular interest, is the one-way see
> through technology. This presents an interesting potential for artistic
> expression if it were to prove viable in a marine environment.
>
> That's the question of the day, anyone with any experience in this medium?
> Would the 3m product hold up in a marine environment?
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
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