<div dir="ltr">Thanks Paul, that is very interesting. ~ Douglas S. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 6:05 AM, Paul Moorhouse <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul@steel-fish.com" target="_blank">paul@steel-fish.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Douglas<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The traditional method was to cast using a slush of polymerised powder and liquid resin to keep the exotherm heat under control. The moulds were often quite rudimentary and the shrinkage large so massive over thickness is required to get what you want out of the casting. The thicker it is the more difficult it is to keep to a cooling rate that will not cause cracks. Once it has cracked, it is scrap. This is quite a contrast to how the material behaves at normal diving temperatures where it is extremely forgiving and in some configurations will extrude in preference to cracking. During the Alicia development we did a series of destructive model tests and the acrylic is definitely the toughest part of the submarine. We had an instrumentation cable port in the top of the test chamber that lead the wires out from the strain gauges on the inside surface of the test sphere. When they went bang at around 2,500 metres bits of acrylic came out of this ¾ hole and went clean through the roof of the building. We had to make a plastic plug to keep the debris inside the chamber. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The German company making spheres for Triton are holding their cards close to their chest right now. I am hoping to be able to write about it when they they feel the time is right but for now the details remain under wraps. What I can tell you is they start with cell cast blocks over 200mm thick that have been slow polymerised under closely controlled conditions from 100% liquid. This increases the length of the polymer chains with superior mechanical properties as a result. These blocks are then heated and slowly squeezed between two metal formers to create the basic hemispheres. After machining and polishing the two hemispheres are bonded together using another new technique that produces a bond that is almost invisible and defect free. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The new spheres are quite definitely the best that have ever been made. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Paul<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Paul Moorhouse<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Design Engineer<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:paul@steel-fish.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">paul@steel-fish.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.steel-fish.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">www.steel-fish.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">#44 7837 542878<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Member-Forum [mailto:<a href="mailto:member-forum-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">member-forum-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Douglas Suhr<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 March 2014 23:48<br><b>To:</b> Dan Still; PSUBS Member Discussion Group</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">"Hi Paul,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">can you tell us a bit more about the thermo forming of the 165mm sphere" </span></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I too am interested in hearing more about how such a thick personnel sphere is manufactured. Sounds like a daunting and frustrating task (with the multiple failures mentioned). ~ Douglas S. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Dan Still <<a href="mailto:stillphototheater@yahoo.com" target="_blank">stillphototheater@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Anything with chips in them hate humans.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:29 AM, Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" target="_blank">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal">Wow, 24+ hours for email delivery and doubled to boot. <br>
<br>Can iPads go insane?<br><br>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS" target="_blank"><br><br>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a><u></u><u></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Joe Perkel <<a href="mailto:josephperkel@yahoo.com" target="_blank">josephperkel@yahoo.com</a>>; <br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:member-forum@psubs.org" target="_blank">member-forum@psubs.org</a> <<a href="mailto:member-forum@psubs.org" target="_blank">member-forum@psubs.org</a>>; <br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia <br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:00:01 PM <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Paul,<br><br>The question is anecdotal based on an off the cuff thought of upsizing the shell O.D. to 42" from 36". I am very hesitant to do this do to weight and handling issues however, several members have made a compelling rationale r/t simple comfort. At 53 I'm 6' 190 lbs and should expect that L to W ratio to change by build time! <br>
<br>I have to think a bit about the shell thickness r/t welding and corrosion issues, but Depth no more than 350'. I seem to remember a cross section drawing of a T section somewhere with a simple L/W/H relationship to shell T, but can't find it again. <br>
<br>I'll take that pdf if you don't mind. I'm not at home and won't be until later this week to do some number crunching.<br><br>Thanks Paul!<br><br><br>Joe<br><br>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS" target="_blank"><br>
<br>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a><u></u><u></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Paul Moorhouse <<a href="mailto:paul@steel-fish.com" target="_blank">paul@steel-fish.com</a>>; <br>
<b>To: </b>'PSUBS Member Discussion Group' <<a href="mailto:member-forum@psubs.org" target="_blank">member-forum@psubs.org</a>>; <br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia <br><b>Sent: </b>Tue, Mar 25, 2014 9:10:06 AM <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Joe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">As it happens, this is my day job. I have been designing submarine pressure vessels for the last 28 years. I am sure there are others on the forum who do this but I am happy to help if you would like, and others at PSUBS should the need arise. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Frame size and spacing is inter-related and there is no one answer. I have developed some models based on the European pressure vessel code PD5500 so running a new configuration is easy and surprisingly quick. PD5500 produces much lighter vessels than ASME VIII which is really aimed at chemical plant. In this way it is more similar to military codes but it does rely on quality assurance levels that do not generally come with home construction. So to cater for this, you put a factor in. I apologise in advance for all of the calculations being in metric but give me info in either. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I would need to know</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Outside diameter</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Shell thickness</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Shell material </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Frame material</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Diving depth</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Length of parallel body</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Ends, hemi or 2:1 dished.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Preferred frame spacing </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:38.4pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Inside or outside frames</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I can send you the PDF of the work sheet as the PD5500 sums do look very pretty. </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The next step is to design the hatch penetration and I can help you here also. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This guy can thermo form your acrylic</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.airesearch.nl/" target="_blank">http://www.airesearch.nl/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Paul</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Paul Moorhouse</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://www.steel-fish.com/" target="_blank">www.steel-fish.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt"> Member-Forum [mailto:<a href="mailto:member-forum-bounces@psubs.org" target="_blank">member-forum-bounces@psubs.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Perkel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 25 March 2014 03:55<br><b>To:</b> PSUBS Member Discussion Group<br><b>Subject:</b> [Member-Forum] Moment of Inertia</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div><p class="MsoNormal">Where did I see the rule of thumb for T-section rib sizing relative to shell thickness? I can't seem to find it now.<br><br>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS" target="_blank"><br>
<br>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a><u></u><u></u></p></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div>
</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
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