<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 11.00.9600.17105"></HEAD>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000"
bottomMargin=7 leftMargin=7 rightMargin=7 topMargin=7><FONT id=role_document
color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Joe,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>I was once talking with an engineer for a
defense contractor and admitted that sometimes I did things backwards
by making something in the shop first and then drawing it up. He
grinned and said, "Yeah, you'd be surprised how often we do that,
too."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 5/5/2014 6:23:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV><SPAN>Jim,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>I
had not seen that particular spreadsheet, thank you!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>I
do have the advantage of software that will accurately calculate weights and
balances based on materials and position within the model. But, I have to get
the broad strokes done first to do some fine tweaking later. In the past, all
this was done on paper and then trial and error in practice.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Joe</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yahoo_quoted style="DISPLAY: block">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>On Sunday, May 4, 2014 9:09 PM, via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
wrote:<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=y_msg_container>
<DIV id=yiv9394213650>
<DIV><FONT id=yiv9394213650role_document color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Joe,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Per ABS, the CB must be at least 2" above the CG when
submerged. It must still be at least 1" above in the event the drop
weight is released.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>When I was considering auxiliary saddle tanks I planned to
position them so the tops were even with the water line when all tanks were
blown. My thinking was to gain the maximum freeboard available since any
portion of the tanks above the water line contributes nothing to
buoyancy. However Alec very correctly pointed out that the portion above
the water line functions as reserve buoyancy to counteract roll when that side
of the boat is depressed such as when someone steps on that tank.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>The CG/CB spreadsheet that Cliff developed is on the Psubs
website. It's an excellent design tool. If you aren't already
using it: <I>Psubs/org>Resources & Reference>Design
Tools. </I>"Ballast & Buoyancy Control" is on the menu at
the left side. Once you open the spreadsheet, choose the tab at the
bottom labeled "Instructions."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Best regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 5/4/2014 4:54:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
personal_submersibles@psubs.org writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV id=yiv9394213650yqt82423 class=yiv9394213650yqt5886898870>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">
<DIV><SPAN>Hank,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR
clear=none></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Most
boats see about 100 hours use a year. I expect this to be no different. I
want a neat little toy to play with in the garage on the occasions when my
wife turns me loose! :)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR
clear=none></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>This
is why I want to section the hull,...and I just convinced myself to shorten
the thing a bit!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR
clear=none></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Joe</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR
clear=none></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR
clear=none></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv9394213650yahoo_quoted style="DISPLAY: block">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>On Sunday, May 4, 2014 5:45 PM, hank
pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
wrote:<BR clear=none></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv9394213650y_msg_container>Joe,<BR clear=none>Sounds like you
need to have the longest cones possible at each end to reduce the size of
the free flooded areas. Another option is to change the design, decide
what your priorities are. What is most important? if long transits are
the plan then you may need to change things. If fuel cost is a
consideration, another change. Looking very cool dock side, you nailed
it. It just wouldn't be fun if it was easy.<BR clear=none>Hank<BR
clear=none>--------------------------------------------<BR clear=none>On
Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical transition<BR clear=none>To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <<A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none>Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 5:30 PM<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>Sean,<BR clear=none>Have<BR clear=none>you ever notice how the
Civil War design of the USS<BR clear=none>Alligator stabilized the boat
submerged? A couple of crazy<BR clear=none>little tethered floats,
but the rationale has<BR clear=none>never escaped me.<BR clear=none>I<BR
clear=none>will reduce free flood space wherever I can. Trapped<BR
clear=none>inertia being on my mind, but I needed someone to remind me<BR
clear=none>of the waste in efficiency / power requirements,<BR
clear=none>thanks! Also, your comments bring home some compelling<BR
clear=none>reasons to shorten the design with a "Just<BR
clear=none>enough but no more" design<BR clear=none>mindset.<BR
clear=none>I've<BR clear=none>given thought to the conical section in the
front, I can<BR clear=none>reduce this down to a 30" head with forward
viewing ala<BR clear=none>Kraka, but quite the tight fit! Not sure, I have
to give it<BR clear=none>some more thought.<BR clear=none>If<BR clear=none>I
reduce the aft end with a cone, then I would bring the<BR clear=none>motor
inside and do a standard marine hybrid<BR clear=none>installation.
Expensive, but certainly a more reliable<BR clear=none>answer. If I do that,
I would dispense with the notion of<BR clear=none>propulsion units in the
aft end of the pods, truly no<BR clear=none> need then.
This boat requires a massive<BR clear=none>ventilation /
climate control scheme for surface operations,<BR clear=none>that's why I've
been overly generous with the<BR clear=none>machinery space in these early
drafts.<BR clear=none>I'm<BR clear=none>still concerned about stability
because I have to contend<BR clear=none>with what to do with all of that
centerline space. The VBT<BR clear=none>would take up some, but I would have
to flood the<BR clear=none>rest.<BR clear=none>Thanks<BR clear=none>again
Sean!<BR clear=none>Joe<BR clear=none> On Sunday, May 4,<BR
clear=none>2014 4:56 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles<BR
clear=none><<A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR clear=none> Hank,<BR clear=none>What<BR
clear=none>you see there is the<BR clear=none> original Seehund
arrangement, my intention is as you say,<BR clear=none>up higher. The aft
cone on mine essentially now an MBT.<BR clear=none>Those lower volumes will
be flooded in practice, but I am<BR clear=none>wondering if they could be
blown down dry to help with<BR clear=none>trailer launching and
recovery??<BR clear=none>Plenty,<BR clear=none>and I mean plenty of room
along the centerline for keel<BR clear=none>ballast.<BR clear=none>I<BR
clear=none>keep thinking about what you've told me regarding Gammas<BR
clear=none>attachment, always in the back of my<BR clear=none>
mind!<BR clear=none>Thanks<BR clear=none>Hank!<BR clear=none>Joe<BR
clear=none> On Sunday, May 4,<BR clear=none>2014 4:34 PM, hank
pronk via Personal_Submersibles<BR clear=none><<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>
wrote:<BR clear=none> Joe,<BR clear=none>Your dive tanks are to
low, they should be at<BR clear=none>the top of the sub. The way you
have it will be less<BR clear=none>stable.<BR clear=none>The motor pod
should be okay, just<BR clear=none>like the K subs. You do not want your
torpedo's to be<BR clear=none>buoyant, they should be as heavy as possible
for<BR clear=none>stability.<BR clear=none>Hank<BR
clear=none>--------------------------------------------<BR clear=none>On<BR
clear=none> Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none>wrote:<BR clear=none><BR clear=none> Subject: Re:<BR
clear=none>[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition<BR
clear=none> To: "Personal Submersibles General<BR
clear=none>Discussion" <<A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> I've incorporated<BR
clear=none> some of the suggestions in the attached<BR
clear=none>drawing. Still,<BR clear=none> I've got a lot to think<BR
clear=none>about here but I am also excited<BR clear=none> about
the<BR clear=none>possibilities and the potential outcome. This<BR
clear=none> image should give some idea of<BR clear=none> what's
on my mind.<BR clear=none> What you see is the<BR clear=none>water
ballast arrangement<BR clear=none> on the original<BR
clear=none>Seehund, and how my proposed pressure<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>boundary fits into this scaled down version. The<BR
clear=none>following<BR clear=none> is a list of concerns and or<BR
clear=none>design<BR clear=none> considerations.<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>1)<BR clear=none> Clearly, I have no need to compensate<BR
clear=none>for the loss of<BR clear=none><BR clear=none> torpedoes<BR
clear=none> 2)<BR clear=none> New pressure<BR
clear=none>boundary provides for massive MBT volumes<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>(Low pressure compressor to blow down<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>volumes)<BR clear=none> 3)<BR clear=none> Torpedo<BR
clear=none>battery pods may need to incorporate some free<BR
clear=none> flooding spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps<BR
clear=none>reduce battery capacity to a single pod in<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then<BR
clear=none> completely free flood both torpedoes<BR
clear=none>completely??.<BR clear=none> (Boat will incorporate a<BR
clear=none>gen-set)<BR clear=none> 4) Questionable<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>reliability of external motor pod assembly.<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>5)<BR clear=none> Stability considerations<BR
clear=none> Thanks for the input<BR clear=none> gents,<BR
clear=none>It really helps me to take a step back on<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>occasion!<BR clear=none> Joe<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> On<BR
clear=none>Sunday,<BR clear=none> May 4,<BR clear=none> 2014
10:19 AM, hank pronk via<BR clear=none>Personal_Submersibles<BR
clear=none> <<A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none>wrote:<BR clear=none> Joe,<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>When I mounted the tanks back on<BR clear=none> Gamma, I
changed the<BR clear=none> mounting location to<BR clear=none>give a
greater angle also I did what<BR clear=none> Vance<BR clear=none>is
saying on a small scale. I then poured<BR clear=none> a
gallon of paint in <BR clear=none> each tank and rolled the sub
slowly to<BR clear=none>ensure there was<BR clear=none> complete
paint<BR clear=none>coverage. If I was operating in salt<BR
clear=none><BR clear=none>water I would mount some nipples to the tanks
with<BR clear=none> plugs. After a dive in salt water,<BR
clear=none>remove the plug and<BR clear=none> you have access to<BR
clear=none>spray fresh water inside and rinse the<BR clear=none>
salt<BR clear=none>water out. A large panel is a good idea also because<BR
clear=none> you<BR clear=none> can open it up after each<BR
clear=none>dive and let it dry out. <BR clear=none> If
I<BR clear=none>had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks<BR
clear=none> exactly. I would change the shape so<BR
clear=none>they have more<BR clear=none> volume at the top reducing<BR
clear=none>the<BR clear=none> rolling effect. Also I would<BR
clear=none> consider<BR clear=none>making them from SS. Also SS heads
solves the<BR clear=none> problems entirely. Start watching ebay for
ss<BR clear=none>heads. I<BR clear=none> once saw a ss tank
exactly<BR clear=none>the<BR clear=none> same as a 500gal propane
tank<BR clear=none> for 1,500<BR clear=none>dollars on ebay.<BR
clear=none> Hank<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>--------------------------------------------<BR clear=none>
On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles<BR clear=none><<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none>wrote:<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical<BR
clear=none> transition<BR clear=none> To: <A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32<BR clear=none>AM<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Joe,<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Consider using an elliptical head back<BR
clear=none>there, for<BR clear=none> starters. You aren't<BR
clear=none>building for much depth here, so<BR clear=none> the<BR
clear=none>K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses<BR
clear=none> are cheaper, do the same job, and give<BR clear=none>you a
touch more<BR clear=none> inside<BR clear=none>room. Then I would
have<BR clear=none> a cone rolled<BR clear=none> with a short
flange on<BR clear=none>the major diameter, maybe a couple<BR
clear=none> of<BR clear=none> inches, to match the hull OD.<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> The Nekton<BR
clear=none>cone-to-dome caused a<BR clear=none> pinch point<BR
clear=none>that was always a hassle to clean and paint,<BR clear=none>
and<BR clear=none> ultimately left<BR clear=none>some pitting in the
pressure hull that had<BR clear=none> to<BR clear=none> be<BR
clear=none>weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal<BR
clear=none> would give you a little more room under<BR
clear=none>there to sandblast<BR clear=none> and paint during<BR
clear=none>assembly and later for overhauls. I would<BR clear=none>
say for maintenance a couple of<BR clear=none>flush-mount, gasketed<BR
clear=none> panels<BR clear=none> in the tank would serve you
well.<BR clear=none>Don't make them<BR clear=none> too<BR
clear=none> ornery to remove or you<BR clear=none>won't do it as often
as you<BR clear=none> will<BR clear=none> wish you had.<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> I'm wondering
now about my own<BR clear=none> boat and using tanks like that. Is
there<BR clear=none> anyone in the<BR clear=none> group<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>who can plug and chug a metacentric height
on Nekton<BR clear=none>tanks<BR clear=none> installed on a K-350?
Assembly<BR clear=none>would be so simple that<BR clear=none> way.<BR
clear=none> And it would tow better, which is always<BR clear=none>a
good thing. The<BR clear=none> Nektons roll a bit,<BR clear=none>but
are reasonably stable. A K with<BR clear=none> the<BR
clear=none> pods should have plenty of weight down<BR clear=none>low.
Hmm. Would it<BR clear=none> work? I'm<BR clear=none>thinking yes.
Anybody else have an opinion<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>on<BR
clear=none> that?<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Vance<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
-----Original<BR clear=none> Message-----<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> From: Joe Perkel via<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles<BR clear=none> <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> To:<BR
clear=none>personal_submersibles<BR clear=none> <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Sent: Sun, May<BR clear=none>4, 2014
12:28 am<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating<BR clear=none>a conical<BR clear=none>
transition<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Vance,<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Rethinking that aft assembly to make
it<BR clear=none>all soft tanks aft<BR clear=none> of a hemi head
ala<BR clear=none>Nekton.<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> If I<BR
clear=none>go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach<BR
clear=none> to the head to allow for periodic access<BR clear=none>and
maintenance?<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Joe<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Sent from
Yahoo Mail for iPad <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
From:<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> via<BR
clear=none> Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>;<BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
To:<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>;<BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Subject:<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Re:<BR clear=none>
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating<BR clear=none> a conical transition
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>Sent:<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> Sat, May 3,<BR
clear=none>2014<BR clear=none> 2:03:36 PM <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> Joe,<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> It<BR clear=none> seems like an expensive and
complex<BR clear=none>assembly for what you<BR clear=none> get. Why
not<BR clear=none>close the aft segment in a simpler way and<BR
clear=none> fair<BR clear=none> the stern to the<BR
clear=none>shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an<BR clear=none>
extended shaft housing to put the prop<BR clear=none>where you want it,<BR
clear=none> for instance.<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Vance<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
-----Original<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>Message-----<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
From: Joe Perkel via<BR clear=none>Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> To: Personal
Submersibles General<BR clear=none>Discussion <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Sent: Sat, May
3, 2014 8:17 am<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating<BR clear=none>a
conical<BR clear=none> transition<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Sean,<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Yes,<BR clear=none> a
bolted<BR clear=none>flange with O ring.<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> I've<BR clear=none> attached an image of what's on
my<BR clear=none>mind. This hull is<BR clear=none> 36" OD,<BR
clear=none>cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger<BR clear=none> in
diameter, simply gets way to big and<BR clear=none>bulky for<BR
clear=none> handling.<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> I'm<BR clear=none> thinking at this size, I must
bolt at<BR clear=none>least two hull<BR clear=none> sections together
for<BR clear=none>outfitting and maintenance, and the<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at
the<BR clear=none> joints.<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Joe<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> On<BR
clear=none>Friday, May<BR clear=none> 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T.<BR
clear=none>Stevenson via<BR clear=none> Personal_Submersibles<BR
clear=none> <<A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> wrote:<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Each cone<BR
clear=none>section in that case is considered<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a<BR
clear=none> heavy stiffener at every joint.<BR clear=none>Depending on
the size, it<BR clear=none> may be<BR clear=none>simpler to use
unstiffened geometry for such an<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
assembly.<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> The rules do
not address bolting<BR clear=none>pressure<BR clear=none> hull
sections together, but<BR clear=none>I don't see why you<BR
clear=none> couldn't,<BR clear=none>provided you meet the requirements
in terms<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>of<BR clear=none> the stress
analysis under the<BR clear=none>maximum combined loading<BR
clear=none> conditions,<BR clear=none>which are prescribed in the ABS
rules.<BR clear=none> Might<BR clear=none> require<BR
clear=none>some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring<BR
clear=none> groove seal? Or other arrangement? <BR clear=none>I
think an ASME<BR clear=none> code compliant flange<BR clear=none>would
be a good place to start, but<BR clear=none> I<BR clear=none>
would make sure that the cross-sectional<BR clear=none>area of each half<BR
clear=none> of the flange<BR clear=none>considered individually met
the requirements<BR clear=none> of<BR clear=none> a heavy
stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material<BR clear=none> location<BR
clear=none> (bolt hole). I<BR clear=none>would also be inclined to use
SuperBolts<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>for<BR clear=none> the
connection. <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <A
title=http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
href="http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Sean<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> On May 2, 2014<BR
clear=none>6:03:21<BR clear=none> PM MDT, Joe Perkel via<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> wrote:<BR clear=none> Sean,<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Would the
heavy stiffener rule apply<BR clear=none>equally to several<BR
clear=none> cone<BR clear=none> segments stepping down at
different<BR clear=none>angles?<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Also, do ASME<BR clear=none>pipe flange specifications
translate equally<BR clear=none> to bolted<BR clear=none>
pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section<BR clear=none>
somewhere on bolted cylindrical<BR clear=none>sections?<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> Very helpful<BR clear=none>Sean
thank you!<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Joe<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Sent from
Yahoo Mail for iPad <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
From:<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Sean T. Stevenson<BR
clear=none> via<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles <<A
title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>; <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> To:<BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Personal<BR
clear=none> Submersibles General<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>Discussion <<A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>>; <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>Subject:<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none><BR clear=none>
Re:<BR clear=none> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating<BR clear=none> a
conical transition <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
Sent:<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Fri, May 2, 2014<BR
clear=none> 11:45:11 PM <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> 2:1<BR
clear=none>semi-elliptical heads are usually<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>fabricated with some<BR clear=none> length of straight
flange (tangential<BR clear=none> cylindrical section) beyond the axis
of<BR clear=none>the ellipse.<BR clear=none> Hemispherical heads
may<BR clear=none>or may not have a straight flange<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>section, but in either case are<BR clear=none> permissible
to use<BR clear=none> adjacent<BR clear=none> to conical
sections, provided all other<BR clear=none>requirements are<BR
clear=none> met. For stiffened<BR clear=none>cones, you must have
stiffeners meeting<BR clear=none> the "heavy stiffener" criteria<BR
clear=none>at both ends, as<BR clear=none> close as practicable<BR
clear=none>to the cone-to-cylinder and<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the<BR
clear=none> length<BR clear=none> L_c used in<BR
clear=none>overall buckling calculations must be the<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>total<BR clear=none> length between the next heavy<BR
clear=none>stiffener to either side of<BR clear=none> the<BR
clear=none>entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head<BR
clear=none> depth points if otherwise<BR clear=none>
unbounded. Cone to head<BR clear=none> welds are done in the
same manner as<BR clear=none>cone to cylinder<BR clear=none> welds,<BR
clear=none> and if your<BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
head is supplied w!<BR clear=none> ith a<BR clear=none>
flange, it is the same<BR clear=none><BR clear=none> thing.<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> Sean<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> On May 2, 2014 2:48:52<BR
clear=none> PM MDT, Joe Perkel via<BR clear=none>Personal_Submersibles
<<A title=mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:personal_submersibles@psubs.org">personal_submersibles@psubs.org</A>><BR
clear=none> wrote:<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> I have<BR
clear=none> spotted the ABS diagrams and<BR clear=none>specifications
for<BR clear=none> re-enforcement and<BR clear=none>butt welds at
conical to cylinder<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>transitions. I am
somewhat unclear however as to<BR clear=none> terminating<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> at the head.<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> For<BR clear=none> example,
the<BR clear=none>diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles<BR
clear=none> and hyperbaric chamber publication shows<BR
clear=none>conical<BR clear=none> transitions<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>either bordered by a<BR clear=none> cylinder at<BR
clear=none>either end, or simply<BR clear=none> open<BR
clear=none> at the small end???<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> I want to terminate the small
end of a<BR clear=none>conical<BR clear=none> transition<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>directly to a small diameter hemi-head
without another<BR clear=none> straight section, but I
am unclear<BR clear=none>as to whether or<BR clear=none> not<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>that is acceptable<BR clear=none>
in practice.<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> Joe<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none> <A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<A title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none> <A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none> <A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none> <A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none> Personal_Submersibles mailing<BR clear=none> list<BR
clear=none> <A title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR clear=none>
<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none> Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none> <A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none> <A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none> <BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none><A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none><A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none><A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none><A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none><BR clear=none><BR clear=none> <BR
clear=none>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none><A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none><A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none><BR clear=none><BR
clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none><A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none><A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none><BR clear=none></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR
clear=none><BR clear=none>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org<BR
clear=none>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles<BR
clear=none></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=yqt90022
class=yqt5886898870>_______________________________________________<BR
clear=none>Personal_Submersibles mailing list<BR clear=none><A
title=mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
href="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org" shape=rect
ymailto="mailto:Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org">Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org</A><BR
clear=none><A
title=http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
href="http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles"
shape=rect
target=_blank>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles</A><BR
clear=none></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Personal_Submersibles
mailing
list<BR>Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org<BR>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>