[PSUBS-MAILIST] Props for Korts

Sat Nov 9 22:04:22 EST 2013

I've been reading up on kort nozzles. I'm under the impression that  the prop design is an intergral part of a kort nozzle. ie shroud plus prop equals kort nozzle. 
What about the prop design? How does an off the shelf prop effect the performance of the kort nozzle ? Do we need to be talking about prop design and fabrication as part of a kort nozzle?
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 11/9/13, Emile van Essen <emile at airesearch.nl> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Printed Kort Nozzle
 To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Date: Saturday, November 9, 2013, 8:17 AM

 E-Mail Software 6.0

 The
 prototype was printed.
 I machined the final version from solid POM /DELRIN for
 better reliability 

 A
 Kort nozzle on the
 other hand, would be extreme inefficient to machine from
 solid.. 

 Emile

 Van:
 Personal_Submersibles
 [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] 

 Verzonden:
 zaterdag 9 november
 2013 11:02

 Aan: Personal
 Submersibles General
 Discussion

 Onderwerp: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Printed
 Kort Nozzle 

 Hi, just
 to show you the possibilities: 

 The black part forward the eyemask, means th part were the
 four hoses
 goes in - is a 3D print out. The diver was
 with it down to
  260 feet .

  http://www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/diving/oxydrant/DoublellopwithPeppers001.jpg

 The printer use a plastic wire with was print out hot
 melted. 

 vbr Carsten

 "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
 schrieb:  

 Hi
 Alec, 

 It
 would be a matter
 of putting as much fiber in with the resin that
 the  

 form
 would enable.
 With the kort nozzle, the nozzle shape would
 allow 

 for
 a thick mix, but
 the struts might not. 

 A
 bit of
 experimentation would be required. 

 If
 you back lit the
 printed shell you may be able to see the resin as it fills
 it, 

 &
 be aware of
 any air voids. Again with the thicker mixes you could ram
 rod 

 them
 down with a
 flexible piece of plastic rod.  

 One
 concern is that
 epoxy shrinks when setting, (but not as bad
 polyester) 

 &
 so the shell
 might need to be filled in a coupe of pours to stop it
 damaging the outer
 shell.  

 Alan

 From:
 Private
 <alecsmyth at gmail.com>

 To: Personal
 Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 

 Sent:
 Saturday, November 9, 2013
 10:23 AM

 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST]
 Printed Kort Nozzle

 Sorry,
 the ones I was referring to are LONG fibers mixed with the
 resin. 

 On Nov 8, 2013, at 4:21 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote: 

 That's
 stuff is exactly what I meant by "structural
 fiberglass". You can't pour it. However, if you
 made the nozzle in two
 halves like doughnut-shaped dog bowls, you could fill them
 both up, put them
 together, and wipe off the excess. 

 On Nov 8, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
 wrote: 

 Alec
 / Joe, 

 these
 products
 "milled glass fibers" or "chopped strand
 glass fibers" 

  may
 be OK, in combination
 with epoxy resin. 

 http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Fillers/fillers.html

 The
 more you can
 add, the stronger the product, but also it becomes
 thicker 

 &
 harder to pour
 in to small voids. I would be careful of using polyester
 resin as it 

 would
 probably melt
 the printed shell. 

 You
 may be able to
 use a thin flexible plastic rod to stuff courser mixtures
 down in to 

 the
 shell. 

 Alan

 From:
 Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>

 To: Personal
 Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 Sent:
 Saturday, November 9, 2013
 8:10 AM

 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST]
 Printed Kort Nozzle

 Alec
 / Joe, 

 I
 will contact a friend who is in the 3d printing business,
 and try & find
 out a bit more 

 about
 this application & casting materials. 

 You
 would need to incorporate risers (tubes) in the design to
 vent air for the
 resin  

 pouring
 process, & maybe " keys" on the inside of the
 mould to give the
 resin more 

 grip
 to the printed shell. 

 Cheers
 Alan 

 Sent from my iPad 

 On 9/11/2013, at 12:24 AM, Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
 wrote: 

 Hi
 Alan,  

 I
 like this idea! I have a printer I built myself so am a
 little familiar with
 them. One of the parameters you provide the printers on each
 job controls the
 "filling" of the piece. Normally, to save material
 that is a sort of
 cross-hatch, and the parameters control things like the
 direction and density
 of that cross-hatch. But the problem with that, for an
 underwater application,
 is that the resulting piece is full of air voids. I'd
 always assumed I would
 print something like this solid. However, if you print it
 hollow and fill it
 with structural fiberglass, the end result is going to be a
 lot stronger than
 if it's solid plastic. In addition, if we printed by
 parts but filled it up
 once those parts are assembled, the resin itself could be
 the "glue"
 that holds those parts together. 

 Thanks,

 Alec  

 On
 Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
 wrote: 

 Joe,

 I
 was re thinking your idea of a printed Kort
 nozzle. 

 There
 are printer kits for $900- that would do the
 job. 

 http://www.3dstuffmaker.com/

 The
 ABS printer cable I've seen selling for about $1- an
 ounce. 

 The
 $899- version in the above link could possibly be big enough
 to print 

 the
 nozzle in one shot. If not then print it in sections &
 glue together. 

 My
 idea is to print the nozzle hollow with an egg shell wall
 thickness & fill
 it with 

 a
 fiber reinforced epoxy resin. The resin may need a few pours
 to allow for
 contractions 

 in
 the resin while setting. 

 Maybe
 under $30- in materials. 

 I
 am not at the point where I need this & neither are you,
 but I think this
 idea still 

 holds
 a lot of promise. 

 Regards
 Alan 

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 0172 8464 420

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 Carsten at euronaut.org 

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