[PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible Classification

hank pronk hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca
Wed Nov 27 13:23:42 EST 2013 

When I bought the steel for my subs over the last few years, I was shocked to get an envelope full of certifications.  I was also surprised to see each piece was stamped identifying the steel.  serious stuff.
Hank 



On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:06:00 AM, "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de> wrote:
  
E-Mail Software 6.0
The cost discussed here was just for the 
certification itself. 
There are a lot of other cost to get 
the 
material certificates, presure test cost, puchase approved 
equipment only,
computer FE calculation cost, make additional 
drawings like a Fire and saftey plan 
(even if you have just one hand held 
extingusher on board) etc.. 

vbr Carsten

"Douglas Suhr" <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> schrieb: 
Thank you Carsten, I appreciate your input. It seems that certification is such a chore (and comes at such a high cost) that it probably isn't worth doing for a recreational submersible.   
>
> 
>I think Hank really nailed it on the head about testing. Proper testing builds confidence in everyone's minds. But to those who are willing to go forward with the arduous and costly certification process, I salute you. ~ Douglas S.  
>
>
>
>On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:32 PM, <MerlinSub at t-online.de> wrote:
>
> 
>>Douglas, there is no advantage to class a such 
sub.
>> 
>>Classification is required if you like to insurance the 
>>boat or do commercial operations with payed crew or pay-guest.  
>>
>>If I ride with guest or even own crew - the have to undersign a paper 
that they 
>>known that the boat has no insurance, and they take a risk on 
there own responsibility. 
>>
>>A other good reason for certification is if 
you like later to sale the boat. 
>>A boat with a certification can be use 
commercial and get there fore a much higher price. 
>>
>>A other reason can be 
maybe that you are unsure what you are doing. 
>>But in that case you should 
not build a Psub anyway.. 
>>
>>A good compromice for Psub builder is maybe to 
collect all material 
>>certificates, building documentaion, construction 
pictures and test etc etc. 
>>and build the boat strait according to the 
rules. 
>>This gives you a chance to certificate the boat later. 
>>
>>Nemo100  boats for example have a hull only certificate from GL 
>>and a saftey building certificate from Swizz Lloyds
>>and the 
insurance company / flag state accept that. 
>>
>>vbr Carsten  (Owner of 
two non classed sub - one since 30 years). 
>>
>>
>>"Douglas Suhr" <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> schrieb: 
>>I have a question. Assuming I am building a single (as in, quantity: 1) submersible that I don't plan to sell or give to anyone else, what is the big advantage/motivation to having my sub classed by any of these organizations (excluding the prestige)? That's a lot of money to throw at a certificate or whatever (that could be used to build a submarine!). 
>>>
>>>
>>>If you plan to carry passengers for hire and need insurance, or are trying to procure commercial work of any sort, I understand completly. But for the average joe submersible builder, what's the big draw? ~ Douglas S.    
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>The public use has to do with trademarks and some copyrights. 
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone 
>>>>
>>>>On Nov 19, 2013, at 8:52 PM, "Phil Nuytten" <phil at philnuytten.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Alan 
>>>>>RE: cost of sub certification - If you do all the test documentation, plan 
approval docs, FEA’s, Von Mises, construction drawings, electronic schematics, 
piping diagrams and sub-system drawings, yourself – figure about $50,000. Phil 
>>>>>BTW, putting a patentable idea out in the ‘public 
domain’ most certainly doesn’t safeguard against anyone copying it – in fact, it 
may well be the exact opposite! ‘Public Disclosure’ may well prohibit the 
ability to engage the patent  process, period. (Not trying to chuck cold 
water, but check the US patent act and that’s what you’ll find . . . if you 
intend to disclose prior to patenting, then at least apply for a ‘Provisional 
Patent’ – dirt  cheap, and protects you for 12 months or so ) 
>>>>>From: Alan James  
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:04 PM 
>>>>>To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion  
>>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Submersible 
Classification 
>>>>> Hi Jon, 
>>>>>someone 
may have more knowledge on this but I think that 
>>>>>because 
you have put your idea out in the public domain 
>>>>>it 
may be regarded as "prior art work" safe guarding you against 
>>>>>anybody 
patenting your idea. 
>>>>>Can 
anybody have a guess at what classification for a boat similar 
>>>>>to
a K350 would cost in fees to an agency, aside from all the additional 
>>>>>costs 
in getting together all the documentation etc. 
>>>>>Alan 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> From: Jon 
Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
>>>>>To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:22 
AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 
G.L. Submersible Classification
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And nobody better steal 
my idea until I patent it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 11/26/2013 2:26 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>I am pretty sure a electric driven MBT valve based on a 
handheld drilling machine motor will be not accept as equal solution. 
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing 
list
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>> 
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>
>>Carsten Standfuß
>>Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
>>Heinrich Reck Str.12A
>>18211 Admannshagen
>>
>>0172 8464 420
>>http://www.euronaut.org/
>>Carsten at euronaut.org 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>   

-- 

Carsten Standfuß
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org

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