[PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner

Mon Oct 7 11:36:48 EDT 2013

Might require a designated diver.

In a message dated 10/7/2013 10:31:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
vbra676539 at aol.com writes:

Not well, but you don't  care.
Vanec

-----Original  Message-----
From: Jon Wallace <jon.wallace at yahoo.com>
To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 8:00  am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner

The  question is, can you navigate properly after using that system of  
cooling?

____________________________________
 From:  Alan <_alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com_ 
(mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com) >
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >  
Sent: Monday, October 7,  2013 10:21 AM
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner

In N.Z. & Australia, we have a very efficient cooling system used by  
boaties, based on convection. Convection where the body is heated or  cooled 
directly rather than trying to control
the surrounding atmosphere, is the most energy efficient system.
Basically you consume large amounts of super cold liquid which has  alcohol 
in it for the purpose of lower the liquids freezing point.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 7/10/2013, at 8:55 AM, Joe Perkel <_josephperkel at yahoo.com_ 
(mailto:josephperkel at yahoo.com) > wrote:

   Alan 

Lost in translation  is my having closed that very system in favor of a 
fresh water &  ethylene glycol coolant through an appropriately surfaced 
exchanger  outside.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo! Mail for  iPad 

____________________________________
 From: Alan <_alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com_ 
(mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com) >; 
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >; 
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner 
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 12:30:03 PM 

Hi Vance,
>From what little I was told, I was under the impression it was a  closed 
system.
The system Joe posted the link to is an open system where they  suck 
seawater in &
Run it through the inner tube of the condenser coil & send it  out again.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 7/10/2013, at 8:21 AM, vbra676539 at aol.com wrote:

Alan,
Are you sure they use straight seawater? I ask, because the  JSLs, where 
some of the guys at Triton cut their teeth, used a  closed system. Radiator 
and fans in the forward sphere, pump  and compressor outside, and one of the 
aluminum structural pipes  behind the sphere as the condenser. I don't 
remember what was used  for coolant, but it worked pretty well to maintain 
temperature and  to reduce humidity. I think it was Freon based, so you wouldn't 
want  it leaking, for sure.
Vance

-----Original  Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 5:12 am
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner

Hi Joe,
Not sure if we are on the same page here.
The pump pumps sea water in through the hull, through a heat  exchanger & 
out again.
So I guess if the tubing in the unit that carries the seawater  & the pump 
pushing it around are
Able to take 175psi ( 250ft plus safety margin ) it would  work.
Alan
Sent from my iPad

On 7/10/2013, at 7:44 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

   Alan,

The  external heat exchanger and associated external plumbing can  remain 
at one ATM. The heat transfer is via conduction, so  the system while 
immersed in seawater remains isolated from  ambient pressure. A circulating pump 
need only overcome  system resistance.

Internal  ball valves on thru hulls as you noted would maintain a fail  
safe against a failure outside.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo!  Mail for iPad 

____________________________________
 From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner 
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013  11:25:26 AM 

That's a great find Joe,
It's designed for the environment & gives us an  idea of size & amp draw.
It would be ok for surface transit but would need a  through hull valve 
where it pumped water in,
that you could close before diving. I doubt the heat  exchanging unit & 
pump would take
the ambient water pressure at depth. As said, the  Triton Heat exchanger is 
outside in the water
& would ( I'm guessing ) just have fresh water at  ambient pressure running 
through it.
   I like what Phil said they do, with the  ice pads. There are all sorts 
of spaces you could pack
them in.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 6/10/2013, at 11:08 PM, Joe Perkel  <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

   Here's a 12VDC unit

http://www.tropicalmarineairconditioning.com/sheets/2425C.pdf

This one is dedicated DC,  ..but I think running a similar sized AC unit 
off an  inverter for dual power source options is worth  considering. Powering 
the unit on the surface as I  described in an earlier post. I don't propose 
diving  with the unit running, but more so a pre and post  mission 
environmental purge, particularly with the  main goal of aggressively dehumidifying 
the  cabin.

No space in  these boats as you note, this requires upsizing  accordingly, 
but carefully. I once calculated the  volume of a sacrificed conning tower 
could be  substituted for 48" and a shortened length for  nearly the same 
weight, I forget the numbers for the  moment.

These compact  AC units can be plumbed as I described earlier, the  heat 
exchanger would have to be purposely designed.  The outflow water of these 
units is pretty damn hot,  much much hotter than the surrounding water.

I live through Vance's  camel torture story for about five minutes every  
time I climb into my white SUV. 

If I'm ever to build and have a practical  Florida submersible, I've got to 
be cognizant of  these issues and address then carefully. 

Joe

Sent from  Yahoo! Mail for iPad 

____________________________________
 From: Jon  Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>; 
To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner 
Sent: Mon, Oct 7,  2013 2:32:22 AM 

In the recreational,  personal, sub-world you generally can't have your  
cake and eat it too.  Put two  adults in a small sub like the K250 and 
you sacrifice comfort for  occupancy.  Freon based AC units whether auto  
or household are not practical  solutions for the traveling submariner, 
such as convention diving.  There  was zero space for such an AC unit on 
board the Boston Whaler used to tow  SNOOPY out into the ocean, and the 
support boat was being tossed in 2-4 foot  seas.  It simply is not 
practical unless you are building a  support boat specific for your sub 
diving and trailering it along with your  submarine to the dive location.

The best solution for the average psubber  is to use a small ice chest 
(six-pack  size) stuffed with ice and then circulate cabin air  over that 
ice.  Use a small  computer fan to force air over the ice if  necessary.  
The first  refrigerators were nothing more than ice-chests,  low-tech, 
easy maintenance, not super  efficient but adequate to keep things 
relatively cool.

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