[PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

Tue Oct 15 11:59:00 EDT 2013

Sure that it is still there? :-o  

"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb: 
Joe,
count me in, have sub will travel
Hank

From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 4:49:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

I can't speak for Alan of course, but with his free spirit of adventure
I'd be eyeing the Puerto Rican trench to recover the lost billion dollar
booty of The "Nuestra Señora De La Mama Mia" on the very fist dive! :)

Joe

Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>; To: Personal Submersibles
General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings Sent: Mon, Oct 14, 2013
10:13:52 PM 
Alan,
What are your sub plans now.  I am sure you have lots of ideas after
your big tour.
Hank
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 3:57:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

Alan,
The new shaft would have a shoulder for both directions.  Gamma has a
water lubricated bearing that would also be a thrust bearing.  Very
simple.  I am not planning at this time to experiment because I don't
need it.  I was thinking about doing though just for fun.
Hank
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 3:31:48 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

Hi Hank,
I'm still not convinced. You would also have to have some sort of
bearing for reverse.
Are you talking about a washer as your main thrust bearing? I know the
Minnkotas don't have more than a washer as a thrust bearing for
reverse.
Are the original bearings that you are talking about using OK for sea
water? 
Technadyne talks about using a water lubricated bearing on their
thrusters.
Obviously it works for them & their units are used on some expensive
subs & ROVs, but
they have modified the technology for their application & the price tag
for a thruster is huge.
Look forward to your experimentation in this field.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 14/10/2013, at 9:49 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi Alan,
The impeller that is submerged in water is fixed to a shaft that is
supported by a bearing on each side.  I would use the original  bearings
and put a thrust washer of appropriate material on the shaft shoulder. 
One could simply remove the impeller and drill through the pump housing
right through the bearing.  Then  replace the original shaft with a
longer shaft machined with a shoulders.  The protruding shaft can be
machined to accommodate the appropriate propeller.  Or you could machine
a nice nose cone to replace the outer pump body and use the original
bearing.  

Hank
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:18:26 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

Thanks Hank,
I only looked at these couplings yesterday, but it seemed that the
bearings would be exposed
to water. I could be wrong.
On the Technadyne site it mentions that the magnetic coupling assembly
dismantles easily
to change the bearings, so I'm wondering if these are a weak point in
the system.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 14/10/2013, at 1:21 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Alan,
If you look on ebay  under water pump magnetic coupled ,  you will see
several examples even some 24v pumps.  
Your right, nice thrusters! and the price is not bad.
Hank
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 1:29:15 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

This Indonesian site looks interesting. For example,
500 watt DC brushless thruster with magnetic coupling for $2500. 
Love these sites that have prices listed.
http://robomarine.com/thrusters.html
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 13/10/2013, at 8:19 PM, "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,  
Does anyone know where to get a magnetic coupling similar to the ones
being used by Tecnadyne.
Regards,  Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan
Sent: Monday, 14 October 2013 4:25 p.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

Hi Hank,
With regard to the off the shelf, water pump, magnetic coupler.
I wonder if the thrust bearings would be a problem in our application.
On a water pump you would have maybe a belt driven pulley on the shaft 
of the coupler & no need for thrust bearings. Whereas in our application
with the propeller
exerting force down the shaft they are needed, & if used would be
exposed to fresh or sea water unless you used some sort of seal. And
sealing it would defeat the purpose for it's application in the first
place, wouldn't it?
Alan

Sent from my iPad
DefeatsOn 12/10/2013, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
wrote:
Joe,
I am a lover of hydraulic anything.  I am sure you can go hyd all around
with no trouble.  Problem is efficiency, they will rob 25%.  If you want
range, then its no good.  If you launch from a ship and look around then
it would not matter maybe.  With seals the way they are now and magnetic
couplers, electric still wins.
I was looking on e bay and there is a magnetic coupler for a water pump
that could be modified for our purposes.  I like the idea but I have no
real need to improve a sub that is perfect :-)   Also my budget is
hurtin bad.
Hank

From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Psubbers Mailist <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 6:17:20 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

Some quick questions / observations / musing come to mind as I sit here
editing videos.

It looks to me like Alvin's thrusters all have a 90 deg drive
arrangement like yacht bow thrusters. Some of these off the shelf units
are hydraulic, but way over powered for a Delta / Gamma sized sub. There
are however, lots of little hydraulic motors out there, a slew of them.
Ive also seen drive components, reductions, etc, that simply were not
available to George. How much trouble would it be to go hydraulic all
around? 

If DC motors must be used, in my view then the single must have
improvement to the T-Rex design is the addition of a mag coupling.

Alecs experience has me rethinking self sufficiency. It would be nice to
charge the batteries and the HP tanks independent of a surface boat,
eliminating the need to raft alongside in swells. All this convenience
means a "Tours 66" type of arrangement. But Tours 66 weighed in at 10
tons.

Everything is now downsized like that little AC unit I posted,.. take a
look at this marine gen-set (note dimensions) 
http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Info/Support/3-5Specs.pdf  
Hmm, could this not be enclosed in the hull during a build, or otherwise
slung longways down the hatch into a 42" hull? No prop shaft and seals,
(you still get towed) but independent re-charge capability for both
batteries and HP air with an equally downsized compressor!?! 

So the question of the day is,...

Is a comfy air conditioned & self sufficient research capable PSUB for
sport diving in Florida / Caribbean waters, a realistic goal at around
3.5 tons and $8-$10 lb?

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-- 

Carsten Standfuß
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
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0172 8464 420
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Carsten at euronaut.org
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