From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sun Sep  1 01:47:53 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 01:47:53 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Launch & Recovery
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnL-earjgGqVZPzCxqPpi7UEwNW4WMkHjCbrun0xCxn8qA@mail.gmail.com>

To Scott W., Alec S., Cliff R. and *anyone else* planning on launching a
vessel at the convention, I am requesting some specifications on your
vessels to help better prepare for the launch/recovery operations at the
convention. Please note this pertains to vessels being davit launched only,
not for those using the ramp. However, if you elect to use the ramp
instead, please advise. You may post info here or email me directly at
spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (this address). Information required is listed
below. Thank you for your cooperation! ~ Douglas S.

NAME OR DESIGNATION OF VESSEL
OVERALL LENGTH
OVERALL WIDTH
OVERALL HEIGHT
WEIGHT AT LAUNCH (please specify if substantially heavier upon recovery)
DISTANCE BETWEEN TWO (LIFTING) POINTS OF ATTACHMENT
DISTANCE TO C OF G BETWEEN LIFTING POINTS (can be measured from fore or
aft, please specify)
VERTICAL DISTANCE (HEIGHT) FROM LIFTING POINTS TO TALLEST PORTION OF VESSEL
VERTICAL DISTANCE (HEIGHT) BETWEEN WATERLINE AT LAUNCH/RECOVERY AND LIFTING
POINTS
APPROXIMATE DESCRIPTION (size/diameter) OF LIFTING POINTS

No person shall be permitted to be in, on or under any vessel at times of
launch and recovery (using davits). If this is a problem, please email me
privately. Steadying lines will be used to help control submersibles in
lift. These can be bow/stern lines attached to vessel. If you don't have
lines with your vessel, please specify.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/f5c07896/attachment-0001.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Sun Sep  1 09:13:28 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 09:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <1378003491.35114.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1378003491.35114.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>


I don't blame them. IEDs unnerve me, too. Just the idea unnerves me. OIF/OEF?
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2013 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing




"...They used to say that you could pick a Vietnam vet out of a crowd of non-vets just by the thousand yard stare. (We tend to keep an eye out for ambush, and never got over it)...."

Vance,

 I'm seeing a whole lot of PTSD at the VA from both OIF & OEF. (A whole lot). A different kind of ambush, you can't see the IED coming. It's leaving them quite unnerved. 

Joe



Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        vbra676539 at aol.com <vbra676539 at aol.com>;                            
                                                            To:                                                         <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>;  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Sat, Aug 31, 2013 8:35:52 PM                            
                        
                            
                            
                                
                                    
                                        
They used to say that you could pick a Vietnam vet out of a crowd of non-vets just by the thousand yard stare. (We tend to keep an eye out for ambush, and never got over it). A psub vet might have a recognizable ten yard stare (considering visibility limitations). Could that be recognizable at a distance?
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2013 9:07 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing



What are the odds you would pick up a guy heading to a sub convention?
Hank




From: Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 9:21:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing



Hi all,


This is a good idea! 


The very first convention, in 2003, was held by a lakeside in Oregon. As I drove through what seemed to me a fairly remote wilderness, I saw a bearded back-packer walking on the shoulder. I would not normally stop and pick up a stranger, but the desolation of the surroundings moved me to do so. I asked where he was going and the response was startling both for it's content as for the thick Scottish accent... "I'm going to a submarine convention!" That was sufficient, I've counted Ian a good friend ever since. 


I was driving to the 2006 convention when I reached a T intersection and stopped for a red light. While I was stopped a convoy of three or four submarines went past, one of them towed by a school bus. There was no doubt which way I had to turn at that intersection.


Recently I've become a fan of a free GPS/navigation phone app called Waze. The main attraction is that it routes you based on current traffic speeds, not just the shortest route, and it helps that it alerts you to speed cameras, police on the shoulder, accidents, etc. Among other things, it allows you to define groups. You can see members of your groups moving along the map, although they also have an option to "go invisible". You can exchange messages with them. I just created a group called PSUBS. I'd really encourage everyone to try Waze because it's just so neat, but also if you want to join the PSUBS group, we'll see each other converging on Islamorada. I wish I'd had that when I blew a trailer tire on my way to last years convention, and found the spare didn't fit.




Best,

Alec 




On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 8:20 AM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:


The 2013 Psubs Convention at Islamorada is now just a month away.  Some of you will be flying into either Miami International (MIA) or Fort Lauderdale (FLL).
 
Miami to Islamorada:  75 miles, 1 hour 35 minutes per Mapquest
Fort Lauderdale:  100 miles, 2 hours 4 minutes per Mapquest
 
To facilitate sharing rides and rental cars, if you will email your info to JimToddPsub at aol.com  OFF LIST, I'll share the info OFF LIST with others who are flying in.  I have made my flight reservations and reserved a rental car.  Below is a list of info that would be helpful:
 
Date of arrival
Time of arrival
Which airport  (kind of important, eh?)
Airline and Flight number
Cell phone number
Do you receive texts on your cell or not?
 
Same info needed regarding departure at the end of the convention.  I will confirm receipt of each email. If I don't reply by the end of that day, that means I didn't get it.
 
Looking forward to a few days in the Keys.
 
Jim
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
                                    
                                
                            
                    
                
            

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/03f88999/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:04:56 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378076696.96079.YahooMailIosMobile@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/f4cd1388/attachment-0001.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:05:28 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378076728.90306.YahooMailIosMobile@web160503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/08a864f9/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:06:03 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378076763.11232.YahooMailIosMobile@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/d2c89db5/attachment-0001.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:07:38 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:07:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378076858.54228.YahooMailIosMobile@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/eefc2aed/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:07:44 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378076864.33207.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/5a369f53/attachment-0001.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:11:01 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378077061.25919.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/062d18d3/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:11:20 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:11:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378077080.46973.YahooMailIosMobile@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/534acd03/attachment-0001.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:11:30 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <8D0752C2ED8DD44-2164-3A403@webmail-m161.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378077090.12705.YahooMailIosMobile@web160503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.<br/><br/>Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/e4f031a1/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:12:45 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test
Message-ID: <1378077165.36386.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Last email went out four times<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/d359bf71/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Sun Sep  1 19:15:57 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 19:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test
Message-ID: <da109.38cb0ec9.3f5524ad@aol.com>

Joe,
It went out nine times.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/1/2013 6:13:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:

Last email went out four times

Joe


Sent  from Yahoo! Mail for  iPad

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/24796590/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  1 19:23:03 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:23:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test
In-Reply-To: <da109.38cb0ec9.3f5524ad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378077783.54857.YahooMailIosMobile@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I rebooted the ipad, testing again.<br/><br/>Sorry for the bombardment!<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/dd22e401/attachment-0001.html>

From mholt at ohiohills.com  Sun Sep  1 19:50:57 2013
From: mholt at ohiohills.com (Michael Holt)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 19:50:57 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test
In-Reply-To: <1378077165.36386.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1378077165.36386.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADotVH1EH65YBtg3PWey0Wc_hued_tMLjCvYxNMsn7sMS0yKdg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Last email went out four times
>
> I've been having my mails duplicated, too.


M
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/a4d442c1/attachment.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Sun Sep  1 20:45:54 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 20:45:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing
In-Reply-To: <1378076696.96079.YahooMailIosMobile@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1378076696.96079.YahooMailIosMobile@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D0758CEA118F1E-233C-4009A@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com>


ah, of course--dense of me
thanks,
vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, Sep 1, 2013 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing




Sorry, familiar abbreviations to me.

Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom for Afghanistan.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        vbra676539 at aol.com <vbra676539 at aol.com>;                            
                                                            To:                                                         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:13:28 PM                            
                        
                            
                            
                                
                                    
                                        
I don't blame them. IEDs unnerve me, too. Just the idea unnerves me. OIF/OEF?
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2013 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing




"...They used to say that you could pick a Vietnam vet out of a crowd of non-vets just by the thousand yard stare. (We tend to keep an eye out for ambush, and never got over it)...."

Vance,

 I'm seeing a whole lot of PTSD at the VA from both OIF & OEF. (A whole lot). A different kind of ambush, you can't see the IED coming. It's leaving them quite unnerved. 

Joe



Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        vbra676539 at aol.com <vbra676539 at aol.com>;                            
                                                            To:                                                         <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>;  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Sat, Aug 31, 2013 8:35:52 PM                            
                        
                            
                            
                                
                                    
                                        
They used to say that you could pick a Vietnam vet out of a crowd of non-vets just by the thousand yard stare. (We tend to keep an eye out for ambush, and never got over it). A psub vet might have a recognizable ten yard stare (considering visibility limitations). Could that be recognizable at a distance?
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2013 9:07 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing



What are the odds you would pick up a guy heading to a sub convention?
Hank




From: Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 9:21:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention - Ride sharing



Hi all,


This is a good idea! 


The very first convention, in 2003, was held by a lakeside in Oregon. As I drove through what seemed to me a fairly remote wilderness, I saw a bearded back-packer walking on the shoulder. I would not normally stop and pick up a stranger, but the desolation of the surroundings moved me to do so. I asked where he was going and the response was startling both for it's content as for the thick Scottish accent... "I'm going to a submarine convention!" That was sufficient, I've counted Ian a good friend ever since. 


I was driving to the 2006 convention when I reached a T intersection and stopped for a red light. While I was stopped a convoy of three or four submarines went past, one of them towed by a school bus. There was no doubt which way I had to turn at that intersection.


Recently I've become a fan of a free GPS/navigation phone app called Waze. The main attraction is that it routes you based on current traffic speeds, not just the shortest route, and it helps that it alerts you to speed cameras, police on the shoulder, accidents, etc. Among other things, it allows you to define groups. You can see members of your groups moving along the map, although they also have an option to "go invisible". You can exchange messages with them. I just created a group called PSUBS. I'd really encourage everyone to try Waze because it's just so neat, but also if you want to join the PSUBS group, we'll see each other converging on Islamorada. I wish I'd had that when I blew a trailer tire on my way to last years convention, and found the spare didn't fit.




Best,

Alec 




On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 8:20 AM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:


The 2013 Psubs Convention at Islamorada is now just a month away.  Some of you will be flying into either Miami International (MIA) or Fort Lauderdale (FLL).
 
Miami to Islamorada:  75 miles, 1 hour 35 minutes per Mapquest
Fort Lauderdale:  100 miles, 2 hours 4 minutes per Mapquest
 
To facilitate sharing rides and rental cars, if you will email your info to JimToddPsub at aol.com  OFF LIST, I'll share the info OFF LIST with others who are flying in.  I have made my flight reservations and reserved a rental car.  Below is a list of info that would be helpful:
 
Date of arrival
Time of arrival
Which airport  (kind of important, eh?)
Airline and Flight number
Cell phone number
Do you receive texts on your cell or not?
 
Same info needed regarding departure at the end of the convention.  I will confirm receipt of each email. If I don't reply by the end of that day, that means I didn't get it.
 
Looking forward to a few days in the Keys.
 
Jim
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
                                    
                                
                            
                    
                
            

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
                                    
                                
                            
                    
                
            

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/9b6ea92f/attachment-0001.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Sun Sep  1 20:46:56 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 20:46:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test
In-Reply-To: <1378077165.36386.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1378077165.36386.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D0758D0EEB07B9-233C-400B0@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com>


actually, it went out eleven times
vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, Sep 1, 2013 4:13 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test




Last email went out four times

Joe


Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130901/93948509/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  2 00:36:30 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 06:36:30 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test
In-Reply-To: <8D0758D0EEB07B9-233C-400B0@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1378077165.36386.YahooMailIosMobile@web160504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D0758D0EEB07B9-233C-400B0@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <073CAD75-B91C-4D85-BAF1-76FD72D37796@yahoo.com>

Thank goodness that was the problem.
I thought Yahoo had reformatted things & was trying to find the
Settings on my Ipad.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 2/09/2013, at 2:46 AM, vbra676539 at aol.com wrote:

> actually, it went out eleven times
> vance
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Sun, Sep 1, 2013 4:13 pm
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test
> 
> Last email went out four times
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/c29f8166/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Mon Sep  2 05:02:17 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 10:02:17 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sun Road Altimeter
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UAZXZp+mQkWOBLcUmwCZSo3v-z+cFW46geih+ZzNDs3JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Could anyone let me have a copy of the instruction book for the Sun Road
digital altimeter?  I remember several people bought them a while ago when
we were talking about them.  I have one but I've stupidly lost the manual
and i can't figure out how to calibrate the device.

I cant seem to find a copy of it on the internet either.

Its this one here.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Altimeter-altitude-Barometer-Thermometer-Forecaster/dp/B00EFXPQ4I/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378112361&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=sun+road+altimeter

Kind Regards
James
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/d5f6d593/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Mon Sep  2 05:45:27 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 10:45:27 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UBVB26vHniiKd8RBAMQepLjx96segGAe9jZtS053AC1+w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I did some tests at the weekend.  Very small pics attached as i havent
updated my site yet.

First i tested the battery pods and seals with old inner tubes.  Managed to
pump them to about 5psi.  Not much but i think it was ok to indicate any
leaks.  I couldnt see or hear anything and pressure remained steady.

Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch viewport.
I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no gasket, the lense
seats directly to the face.  No leak, but agreed, not much test pressure
although the saucepan was full despite the spillage out the sides.

Next i did a life support test.  I filled and ran the scrubber and then sat
inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.  CO2 seemed to level out at about
5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to 19%.

i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to hold, so
i am hoping the boat is tight.

I was going to do a leak test in a local fresh water resovoir, but as im a
bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a logistical
fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.  Next week.
Kind Regards
James
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/4a9edf20/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: saucepansmall.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 28094 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/4a9edf20/attachment-0003.jpe>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: innertube2small.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 38842 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/4a9edf20/attachment-0004.jpe>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: innertubesmall.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 44969 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/4a9edf20/attachment-0005.jpe>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Sep  2 10:21:13 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 07:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UBVB26vHniiKd8RBAMQepLjx96segGAe9jZtS053AC1+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UBVB26vHniiKd8RBAMQepLjx96segGAe9jZtS053AC1+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1378131673.8842.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi James,
I always do a vacuum test before my test dives.? I use a compressor as a vacuum pump and draw out as much air as possible.? Then I have a valve on the hull and a vacuum gauge.? I let it sit for 24 hr.? If it holds the vacuum your set.? 
Hank

From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 3:45:27 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test



Hi All,

I did some tests at the weekend.? Very small pics attached as i havent updated my site yet.

First i tested the battery pods and seals with old inner tubes.? Managed to pump them to about 5psi.? Not much but i think it was ok to indicate any leaks.? I couldnt see or hear anything and pressure remained steady.

Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch viewport.? I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no gasket, the lense seats directly to the face.? No leak, but agreed, not much test pressure although the saucepan was full despite the spillage out the sides.

Next i did a life support test.? I filled and ran the scrubber and then sat inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.? CO2 seemed to level out at about 5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to 19%.????? 

i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to hold, so i am hoping the boat is tight.

I was going to do a leak?test in a local fresh water resovoir, but as im a bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a logistical fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.??Next week.
Kind Regards
James

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/268ec4e5/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep  2 10:57:18 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 10:57:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
Message-ID: <103721.48706fb3.3f56014e@aol.com>

Hi Hank,
 
See if you agree with my line of thinking:  At a  hatch depth of 20 feet 
you'll have about 9 psi differential on your hatch and  your other 
penetrations as well.   At a hatch depth of 1 foot you have  about .445 psi 
differential.
 
For many things, the greater the pressure differential, the  greater the 
chance of a leak or seepage.  However on the hatch in  particular (and 
possibly on some other things), the greater the  pressure forcing the hatch against 
the landing, the more tightly it will  seal.  So the hatch might seal well 
at depth, but leak when barely  submerged
 
It seems it would be good to do both a high vacuum and  a low vacuum test.  
If the hatch seals well at high vacuum, but leaks  down at low vacuum, more 
work is needed on the latches or the mating  surfaces.
 
Best regards,
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/2/2013 9:21:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:

 
Hi James,
I always do a vacuum test before my test dives.  I  use a compressor as a 
vacuum pump and draw out as much air as possible.   Then I have a valve on 
the hull and a vacuum gauge.  I let it sit for 24  hr.  If it holds the vacuum 
your set.  
Hank



 
 

From: James Frankland  <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org  
Sent: Monday, September 2,  2013 3:45:27 AM
Subject:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test



Hi All,
 
I did some tests at the weekend.  Very small pics attached as i  havent 
updated my site yet.
 
First i tested the battery pods and seals with old  inner tubes.  Managed 
to pump them to about 5psi.  Not much but i  think it was ok to indicate any 
leaks.  I couldnt see or hear anything  and pressure remained steady.
 
Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch  viewport. 
 I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no gasket,  the lense 
seats directly to the face.  No leak, but agreed, not much test  pressure 
although the saucepan was full despite the spillage out the  sides.
 
Next i did a life support test.  I filled and ran the scrubber and  then 
sat inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.  CO2 seemed to level  out at 
about 5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to  19%.      
 
i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to hold,  so 
i am hoping the boat is tight.
 
I was going to do a leak test in a local fresh water resovoir, but  as im a 
bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a logistical  
fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.  Next week.
Kind Regards
James
 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/ed86ea74/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Mon Sep  2 11:15:52 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 16:15:52 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] update on Trustworthy
In-Reply-To: <20130827053506.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.aabd37f076.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20130827053506.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.aabd37f076.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UDH0Z9C=jXXez=wYjyBJ0HksF0at0Ou7UXsujENsZi20w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

Only just seen this post.  Your sub looks really good!  And looks like your
nearly done!
kind regards
James

On 27 August 2013 13:35, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

>  Hey guys. Just a update on Trustworthy:
> I have uploaded a lot of new pictures and they are visible under "Scott
> Waters" in the psub member projects area. I am doing the final assembly
> after painting it this weekend and we will be testing in the muddy lakes of
> Kansas soon!
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/df02148a/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Sep  2 12:12:11 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 09:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
In-Reply-To: <103721.48706fb3.3f56014e@aol.com>
References: <103721.48706fb3.3f56014e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1378138331.16259.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Jim,
I am no expert on the subject, but I do a test with as much vacuum as possible.? When you dive the hatch is secured tight so there is always pressure on the seal.? Before I converted my k350 hatch to open from both sides, I did the vacuum test without securing the hatch.? I does not take much vacuum to suck the hatch down tight.? Honestly I am not sure about a low vacuum test, you could be right.???I just assumed it should be more than less.?? Before I tested my last sub in the lake, I did a vacuum test and I did loose vacuum overnight.? It was very minor, so I went anyways.? Sure enough I had a leak, I took on a couple of litres of water at 200 feet for an hr.? I think my connection point from the acrylic cylinder to the hatch land was the problem.? There is no seal, it is cast in?place.???
Hank

From: "JimToddPsub at aol.com" <JimToddPsub at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 8:57:18 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test



Hi Hank,
?
See if you agree with my line of thinking:? At?a hatch depth of 20 feet you'll have about 9 psi differential on your hatch and your other penetrations as well.?? At a hatch depth of 1 foot you have about .445 psi differential.
?
For many things, the greater the pressure differential, the greater the chance of a leak or seepage.? However on the hatch in particular (and possibly on some other things), the greater the pressure?forcing the hatch against the landing, the more tightly it will seal.? So the hatch might seal well at depth, but leak when barely submerged
?
It seems it would be good to do both a?high vacuum and a?low vacuum test.? If the hatch seals well at high vacuum, but leaks down at low vacuum, more work is needed on the latches or the mating surfaces.
?
Best regards,
Jim

In a message dated 9/2/2013 9:21:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:
Hi James,
>I always do a vacuum test before my test dives.? I use a compressor as a vacuum pump and draw out as much air as possible.? Then I have a valve on the hull and a vacuum gauge.? I let it sit for 24 hr.? If it holds the vacuum your set.? 
>Hank
>
>
>From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 3:45:27 AM
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I did some tests at the weekend.? Very small pics attached as i havent updated my site yet.
>
>First i tested the battery pods and seals with old inner tubes.? Managed to pump them to about 5psi.? Not much but i think it was ok to indicate any leaks.? I couldnt see or hear anything and pressure remained steady.
>
>Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch viewport.? I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no gasket, the lense seats directly to the face.? No leak, but agreed, not much test pressure although the saucepan was full despite the spillage out the sides.
>
>Next i did a life support test.? I filled and ran the scrubber and then sat inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.? CO2 seemed to level out at about 5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to 19%.????? 
>
>i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to hold, so i am hoping the boat is tight.
>
>I was going to do a leak?test in a local fresh water resovoir, but as im a bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a logistical fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.??Next week.
>Kind Regards
>James
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/fe34d993/attachment-0001.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Mon Sep  2 12:29:47 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 17:29:47 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
In-Reply-To: <1378138331.16259.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <103721.48706fb3.3f56014e@aol.com>
 <1378138331.16259.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UAVren1tuVdXn+Tw5dNkzGmvLwbB7D+H37nyb5_Y3MuXg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,

Sounds like the overnight vacuum test is a really good idea.  Unfortunately
i only have the standard hatch so i cant close it from outside .  I'll have
to see if i can suck it down like Hank suggests.  Got a few days to tinker.
Regards
James




On 2 September 2013 17:12, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

>  Hi Jim,
> I am no expert on the subject, but I do a test with as much vacuum as
> possible.  When you dive the hatch is secured tight so there is always
> pressure on the seal.  Before I converted my k350 hatch to open from both
> sides, I did the vacuum test without securing the hatch.  I does not take
> much vacuum to suck the hatch down tight.  Honestly I am not sure about a
> low vacuum test, you could be right.   I just assumed it should be more
> than less.   Before I tested my last sub in the lake, I did a vacuum test
> and I did loose vacuum overnight.  It was very minor, so I went anyways.
> Sure enough I had a leak, I took on a couple of litres of water at 200 feet
> for an hr.  I think my connection point from the acrylic cylinder to the
> hatch land was the problem.  There is no seal, it is cast in place.
> Hank
>
>   *From:* "JimToddPsub at aol.com" <JimToddPsub at aol.com>
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Sent:* Monday, September 2, 2013 8:57:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
>
>  Hi Hank,
>
> See if you agree with my line of thinking:  At a hatch depth of 20 feet
> you'll have about 9 psi differential on your hatch and your other
> penetrations as well.   At a hatch depth of 1 foot you have about .445 psi
> differential.
>
> For many things, the greater the pressure differential, the greater the
> chance of a leak or seepage.  However on the hatch in particular (and
> possibly on some other things), the greater the pressure forcing the hatch
> against the landing, the more tightly it will seal.  So the hatch might
> seal well at depth, but leak when barely submerged
>
> It seems it would be good to do both a high vacuum and a low vacuum test.
> If the hatch seals well at high vacuum, but leaks down at low vacuum, more
> work is needed on the latches or the mating surfaces.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 9/2/2013 9:21:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:
>
>  Hi James,
> I always do a vacuum test before my test dives.  I use a compressor as a
> vacuum pump and draw out as much air as possible.  Then I have a valve on
> the hull and a vacuum gauge.  I let it sit for 24 hr.  If it holds the
> vacuum your set.
> Hank
>
>   *From:* James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Sent:* Monday, September 2, 2013 3:45:27 AM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
>
>  Hi All,
>
> I did some tests at the weekend.  Very small pics attached as i havent
> updated my site yet.
>
> First i tested the battery pods and seals with old inner tubes.  Managed
> to pump them to about 5psi.  Not much but i think it was ok to indicate any
> leaks.  I couldnt see or hear anything and pressure remained steady.
>
> Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch
> viewport.  I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no gasket, the
> lense seats directly to the face.  No leak, but agreed, not much test
> pressure although the saucepan was full despite the spillage out the sides.
>
> Next i did a life support test.  I filled and ran the scrubber and then
> sat inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.  CO2 seemed to level out at
> about 5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to 19%.
>
> i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to hold, so
> i am hoping the boat is tight.
>
> I was going to do a leak test in a local fresh water resovoir, but as im a
> bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a logistical
> fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.  Next week.
> Kind Regards
> James
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/495d5ba0/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep  2 12:42:51 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 12:42:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
Message-ID: <105989.3ce81f6c.3f561a0b@aol.com>

Hi James,
Could you tighten down the hatch from the outside with  hold-down straps 
such as you use for securing a load on a trailer?  Or you  could place some 
weights on a platform on top of the hatch.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/2/2013 11:30:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com writes:

Hi Guys,
 
Sounds like the overnight vacuum test is a really good idea.   
Unfortunately i only have the standard hatch so i cant close it from  outside .  I'll 
have to see if i can suck it down like Hank  suggests.  Got a few days to 
tinker.
Regards
James
 



On 2 September 2013 17:12, hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ 
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) > wrote:


 
Hi Jim,
I  am no expert on the subject, but I do a test with as much vacuum as  
possible.  When you dive the hatch is secured tight so there is always  
pressure on the seal.  Before I converted my k350 hatch to open from  both sides, I 
did the vacuum test without securing the hatch.  I does  not take much 
vacuum to suck the hatch down tight.  Honestly I am not  sure about a low vacuum 
test, you could be  right.   I just assumed it should be more than  less.   
Before I tested my last sub in the lake, I did a vacuum  test and I did 
loose vacuum overnight.  It was very minor, so I went  anyways.  Sure enough I 
had a leak, I took on a couple of litres of  water at 200 feet for an hr.  I 
think my connection point from the  acrylic cylinder to the hatch land was 
the problem.  There is no seal,  it is cast in place.   
Hank



 
 

From: "_JimToddPsub at aol.com_ (mailto:JimToddPsub at aol.com) " 
<_JimToddPsub at aol.com_ (mailto:JimToddPsub at aol.com) >
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)  
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 8:57:18  AM
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test


 


 
Hi Hank,
 
See if you agree with my line of thinking:  At a  hatch depth of 20 feet 
you'll have about 9 psi differential on your hatch  and your other 
penetrations as well.   At a hatch depth of 1 foot  you have about .445 psi 
differential.
 
For many things, the greater the pressure differential,  the greater the 
chance of a leak or seepage.  However on the hatch in  particular (and 
possibly on some other things), the greater the  pressure forcing the hatch against 
the landing, the more tightly it  will seal.  So the hatch might seal well 
at depth, but leak when barely  submerged
 
It seems it would be good to do both a high vacuum  and a low vacuum test.  
If the hatch seals well at high vacuum,  but leaks down at low vacuum, more 
work is needed on the latches or the  mating surfaces.
 
Best regards,
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/2/2013 9:21:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ (mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca)  writes:

 
Hi James,
I  always do a vacuum test before my test dives.  I use a compressor as  a 
vacuum pump and draw out as much air as possible.  Then I have a  valve on 
the hull and a vacuum gauge.  I let it sit for 24 hr.   If it holds the 
vacuum your set.  
Hank



 
 

From: James  Frankland <_jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com_ 
(mailto:jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com) >
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)  
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013  3:45:27 AM
Subject:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test



Hi All,
 
I did some tests at the weekend.  Very small pics attached as i  havent 
updated my site yet.
 
First i tested the battery pods and seals with old inner tubes.   Managed 
to pump them to about 5psi.  Not much but i think it was ok  to indicate any 
leaks.  I couldnt see or hear anything and pressure  remained steady.
 
Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch  viewport. 
 I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no  gasket, the lense 
seats directly to the face.  No leak, but agreed,  not much test pressure 
although the saucepan was full despite the spillage  out the sides.
 
Next i did a life support test.  I filled and ran the scrubber  and then 
sat inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.  CO2 seemed to  level out at 
about 5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to  19%.      
 
i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to  hold, so 
i am hoping the boat is tight.
 
I was going to do a leak test in a local fresh water resovoir,  but as im a 
bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a  logistical 
fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.  Next  week.
Kind Regards
James
 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles










_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/69a1f30f/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  2 11:13:53 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 17:13:53 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
In-Reply-To: <103721.48706fb3.3f56014e@aol.com>
References: <103721.48706fb3.3f56014e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <57CFB22B-C263-4259-BC60-66C6932E4FB3@yahoo.com>

Jim, Hank,
I was talking to a sub pilot who had had 10,000 hrs diving various submarines.
He said they all leak for the first few feet, even the $3 million dollar one he was working
on. Phil said they pull a vacuum on the Deep Workers before they dive to set the o-rings.
Maybe that avoids initial leaks.
Bet Vance could enlighten us here.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 2/09/2013, at 4:57 PM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:

> Hi Hank,
>  
> See if you agree with my line of thinking:  At a hatch depth of 20 feet you'll have about 9 psi differential on your hatch and your other penetrations as well.   At a hatch depth of 1 foot you have about .445 psi differential.
>  
> For many things, the greater the pressure differential, the greater the chance of a leak or seepage.  However on the hatch in particular (and possibly on some other things), the greater the pressure forcing the hatch against the landing, the more tightly it will seal.  So the hatch might seal well at depth, but leak when barely submerged
>  
> It seems it would be good to do both a high vacuum and a low vacuum test.  If the hatch seals well at high vacuum, but leaks down at low vacuum, more work is needed on the latches or the mating surfaces.
>  S


> Best regards,
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 9/2/2013 9:21:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:
> Hi James,
> I always do a vacuum test before my test dives.  I use a compressor as a vacuum pump and draw out as much air as possible.  Then I have a valve on the hull and a vacuum gauge.  I let it sit for 24 hr.  If it holds the vacuum your set. 
> Hank
> 
> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
> Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 3:45:27 AM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> I did some tests at the weekend.  Very small pics attached as i havent updated my site yet.
>  
> First i tested the battery pods and seals with old inner tubes.  Managed to pump them to about 5psi.  Not much but i think it was ok to indicate any leaks.  I couldnt see or hear anything and pressure remained steady.
>  
> Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch viewport.  I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no gasket, the lense seats directly to the face.  No leak, but agreed, not much test pressure although the saucepan was full despite the spillage out the sides.
>  
> Next i did a life support test.  I filled and ran the scrubber and then sat inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.  CO2 seemed to level out at about 5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to 19%.     
>  
> i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to hold, so i am hoping the boat is tight.
>  
> I was going to do a leak test in a local fresh water resovoir, but as im a bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a logistical fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.  Next week.
> Kind Regards
> James
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/43e3e15f/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep  2 12:55:09 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 12:55:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak, pressure and life support test
Message-ID: <105d27.cb06dcf.3f561ced@aol.com>

Hi Alan,
 
I'm going to strive for no-leak just from securing the  hatch.  At the 
least I expect that means machining the landing before the  tower is welded in 
place and again after it's welded in place.   Dan and Alec experimented 
somewhat with the O-rings to achieve a  solution.
 
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/2/2013 11:47:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com writes:

Jim, Hank,
I was talking to a sub pilot who had had 10,000 hrs diving various  
submarines.
He said they all leak for the first few feet, even the $3 million dollar  
one he was working
on. Phil said they pull a vacuum on the Deep Workers before they dive to  
set the o-rings.
Maybe that avoids initial leaks.
Bet Vance could enlighten us here.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 2/09/2013, at 4:57 PM, _JimToddPsub at aol.com_ 
(mailto:JimToddPsub at aol.com)  wrote:



 
Hi Hank,
 
See if you agree with my line of thinking:  At a  hatch depth of 20 feet 
you'll have about 9 psi differential on your hatch  and your other 
penetrations as well.   At a hatch depth of 1 foot  you have about .445 psi 
differential.
 
For many things, the greater the pressure differential,  the greater the 
chance of a leak or seepage.  However on the hatch in  particular (and 
possibly on some other things), the greater the  pressure forcing the hatch against 
the landing, the more tightly it  will seal.  So the hatch might seal well 
at depth, but leak when barely  submerged
 
It seems it would be good to do both a high vacuum  and a low vacuum test.  
If the hatch seals well at high vacuum,  but leaks down at low vacuum, more 
work is needed on the latches or the  mating surfaces.
 S







Best regards,
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/2/2013 9:21:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ (mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca)   writes:

 
Hi James,
I always do a vacuum test before my test dives.   I use a compressor as a 
vacuum pump and draw out as much air as  possible.  Then I have a valve on 
the hull and a vacuum gauge.   I let it sit for 24 hr.  If it holds the vacuum 
your set.   
Hank



 
 

From: James Frankland <_jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com_ 
(mailto:jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com) >
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent: Monday, September  2, 2013 3:45:27 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Leak,  pressure and life support test



Hi All,
 
I did some tests at the weekend.  Very small pics attached as i  havent 
updated my site yet.
 
First i tested the battery pods and seals with  old inner tubes.  Managed 
to pump them to about 5psi.  Not much  but i think it was ok to indicate any 
leaks.  I couldnt see or hear  anything and pressure remained steady.
 
Then i did the very sophisticated "saucepan test" over the hatch  viewport. 
 I was just a bit suspicious of this one as it has no  gasket, the lense 
seats directly to the face.  No leak, but agreed,  not much test pressure 
although the saucepan was full despite the spillage  out the sides.
 
Next i did a life support test.  I filled and ran the scrubber  and then 
sat inside for an hour with the hatch sealed.  CO2 seemed to  level out at 
about 5500ppm and i topped up O2 when it got to  19%.      
 
i also dropped half a psi of internal pressure and that seemed to  hold, so 
i am hoping the boat is tight.
 
I was going to do a leak test in a local fresh water resovoir,  but as im a 
bit more confident its not going to leak now and its such a  logistical 
fuss, im going to go straight in the sea.  Next  week.
Kind Regards
James
 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/7bf9a841/attachment-0001.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Mon Sep  2 16:16:11 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 16:16:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
Message-ID: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>


On the vacuum question:

We pulled a vac and held it anytime pressure boundaries were disturbed or modified, say changing a penetrator or pulling the viewport or whatever. Day to day, no. You have to remember, these things were in the water more than they were out, and if the seals were working when you got home after work last night at midnight, then they're working at seven in the morning when pilot number two goes back over the stern. Nuytco's pre-dive vac is a good verifier, and easy to do on a small, small vehicle.

I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need it. Maybe something for the next conference?

Vance
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130902/80014408/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Tue Sep  3 04:44:14 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:44:14 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>

 Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If
anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it
over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap
hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.

Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new
kitchen at home.. :)
Kind Regards
James


> >I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch
> >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into
> a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we
> need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>
> >Vance
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/e9f4168f/attachment.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Tue Sep  3 10:36:31 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 10:36:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>


We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
 
Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
Kind Regards
James 
 

>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
 
>Vance

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/95aa61dc/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Tue Sep  3 12:10:33 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 17:10:33 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>

Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but
if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test
it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter,
seeing as i have the dish.
regards
James

On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:

> We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said,
> I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the
> hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton
> construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal
> end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven
> technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the
> K-plans sold on the site.
> Vance
>   -----Original Message-----
> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>  Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If
> anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it
> over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap
> hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>
> Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new
> kitchen at home.. :)
> Kind Regards
> James
>
>
>> >I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch
>> >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into
>> a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we
>> need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>
>> >Vance
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/2f96f743/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  3 12:39:54 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 18:39:54 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>

A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:

> Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
> regards
> James  
> 
> On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>> We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>> Vance
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>> 
>> Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>>  
>> Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>> Kind Regards
>> James 
>>  
>>> >I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>>  
>>> >Vance
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/4b0a6682/attachment-0001.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Tue Sep  3 13:00:23 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 13:00:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>


Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we could definitely do with something more user friendly.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:



Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
regards
James  


On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:

We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
 
Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
Kind Regards
James 
 

>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
 
>Vance

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/635498e4/attachment.html>

From Alec.Smyth at covisint.com  Tue Sep  3 13:27:09 2013
From: Alec.Smyth at covisint.com (Smyth, Alec)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 17:27:09 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Well, that's one I had to spend some thinking time on when PSUBS introduced the "convention diving prerequisite" that hatches open from either side. I eventually came to a solution that was jointly developed with Greg Cottrell. We put a bevel on the bottom outside edge of the dome, and sealed it with an O ring instead of potting it. The dome floats on a flat ring of polycarbonate lubricated with vacuum grease, and is secured only with wing nuts, so that in the event of needing to open the sub from the outside, that can be readily done without tools. It is not strictly speaking a hatch you can operate from either side, but it does accomplish the goal of emergency access. I investigated other options similar to the Deep Worker system, but could not come up with anything that would work - the difference is that the Deep Workers have a massive hatch ring, which gives you a lot more to work with in terms of locating through-hulls or other hardware.

Personally what I would explore is closing the hatch with shock cord, so that in the event of an emergency you could just lift the hatch a little and slice through the cords. But for that to work, you would really need nicely machined surfaces. Snoopy's is not re-machined after fabrication, and therefore requires the clamp pressure for the two surfaces to conform and make a proper initial seal.


Best,

Alec

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of vbra676539 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:00 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed

Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we could definitely do with something more user friendly.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com<mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com<mailto:jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>> wrote:
Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
regards
James
On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com<mailto:vbra676539 at aol.com>> wrote:
We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com<mailto:jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.

Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
Kind Regards
James

>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?

>Vance

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________

Personal_Submersibles mailing list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>

http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________

Personal_Submersibles mailing list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>

http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/2103149c/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  3 13:57:43 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 19:57:43 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>

I have seen small hammers hanging from the walls of
Some pretty high tech trains recently. I presume they are for breaking the windows
For exit in accidents. ( could be wrong ).
How much effort would it take to break a K250 dome at it's apex?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 3/09/2013, at 7:27 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:

> Well, that?s one I had to spend some thinking time on when PSUBS introduced the ?convention diving prerequisite? that hatches open from either side. I eventually came to a solution that was jointly developed with Greg Cottrell. We put a bevel on the bottom outside edge of the dome, and sealed it with an O ring instead of potting it. The dome floats on a flat ring of polycarbonate lubricated with vacuum grease, and is secured only with wing nuts, so that in the event of needing to open the sub from the outside, that can be readily done without tools. It is not strictly speaking a hatch you can operate from either side, but it does accomplish the goal of emergency access. I investigated other options similar to they've Deep Worker system, but could not come up with anything that would work ? the difference is that the Deep Workers have a massive hatch ring, which gives you a lot more to work with in terms of locating through-hulls or other hardware.
>  
> Personally what I would explore is closing the hatch with shock cord, so that in the event of an emergency you could just lift the hatch a little and slice through the cords. But for that to work, you would really need nicely machined surfaces. Snoopy?s is not re-machined after fabrication, and therefore requires the clamp pressure for the two surfaces to conform and make a proper initial seal.
>  
>  
> Best,
>  
> Alec
>  
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of vbra676539 at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:00 PM
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>  
> Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we could definitely do with something more user friendly.
> Vance
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
> 
> A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
> Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
> Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
> regards
> James 
> 
> On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
> We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
> Vance
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
> 
> Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>  
> Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
> Kind Regards
> James 
>  
> >I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>  
> >Vance
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/1f62bfcf/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Sep  3 14:03:27 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:03:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
I bet a lot of force, plus what about shrapnel hitting the pilot.? I think a saws all would do the trick.? Isn't there a rule in the submarine bible, thou shalt not wreck a perfectly good dome.?
Hank

From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 11:57:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



I have seen small hammers hanging from the walls of
Some pretty high tech trains recently. I presume they are for breaking the windows
For exit in accidents. ( could be wrong ).
How much effort would it take to break a K250 dome at it's apex?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 3/09/2013, at 7:27 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:


Well, that?s one I had to spend some thinking time on when PSUBS introduced the ?convention diving prerequisite? that hatches open from either side. I eventually came to a solution that was jointly developed with Greg Cottrell. We put a bevel on the bottom outside edge of the dome, and sealed it with an O ring instead of potting it. The dome floats on a flat ring of polycarbonate lubricated with vacuum grease, and is secured only with wing nuts, so that in the event of needing to open the sub from the outside, that can be readily done without tools. It is not strictly speaking a hatch you can operate from either side, but it does accomplish the goal of emergency access. I investigated other options similar to they've Deep Worker system, but could not come up with anything that would work ? the difference is that the Deep Workers have a massive hatch ring, which gives you a lot more to work with in terms of locating through-hulls or other hardware.
>?
>Personally what I would explore is closing the hatch with shock cord, so that in the event of an emergency you could just lift the hatch a little and slice through the cords. But for that to work, you would really need nicely machined surfaces. Snoopy?s is not re-machined after fabrication, and therefore requires the clamp pressure for the two surfaces to conform and make a proper initial seal.
>?
>?
>Best,
>?
>Alec
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of vbra676539 at aol.com
>Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:00 PM
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>?
>Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we could definitely do with something more user friendly.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
>Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
>Alan
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:
>Well, its just an idea\thought.? Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.? Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
>>regards
>>James? 
>>On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>>We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>>Vance
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>>Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.? If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a?"club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.? I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole?II cut out.? Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>>?
>>Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>>Kind Regards
>>James?
>>?
>>>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone?on the outside?to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>>?
>>>>Vance
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>?
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>?
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/cbf275eb/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  3 14:05:46 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:05:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I few years ago I was talking with George and suggested a few upgrades that I could manufacture for k-subs and offer with his approval. His response was that no changes could be offered because the original design (actually the vast design) was ABS certified and this offered some liability protection that might be void if any changes were made.
?
I don't know if it really mattered but that's how he felt. With that in mind, it might be possible to offer?"generic" parts that?could work on the k-boats without using the Kittredge name.
?
Greg
?
?
?

________________________________
From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



Well, its just an idea\thought.? Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.? Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
regards
James? 


On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:

We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>
>Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.? If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a?"club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.? I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole?II cut out.? Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>
>Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>Kind Regards
>James?
>
>>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone?on the outside?to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>
>>>Vance
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/3f016efe/attachment.html>

From jimtoddpsub at aol.com  Tue Sep  3 14:24:11 2013
From: jimtoddpsub at aol.com (jimtoddpsub at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 18:24:11 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
 <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2114114227-1378232652-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1220472994-@b2.c11.bise6.blackberry>

A small, power saw would be good to have aboard the support vessel as a last resort when it's a choice of saving your dome or your hiney.  Best to solve all issues as far upstream as possible to avoid having to work a remedy downstream.  There's more time and resources to address it in the shop than on a dive. 

It takes a lot more to rip open a steel hatch than acrylic if someone is trapped inside and CO2 is rising. 

Jim


Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Sender: "Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:03:27 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-To: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>,
        Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Tue Sep  3 14:30:21 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 14:30:21 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9999B0E5-8EA2-4C8B-A1D2-B87FBF844B85@gmail.com>

I don't think there's the slightest chance of the little hammer approach working. For a while, I used to pack a battery powered drill, and my plan was to drill out a circle to put my hand through. But the wing nut approach would take a fraction of the time. Plus, when you've dragged the dead pilot out you can put a new live one in and go diving as the hatch will still work!



On Sep 3, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have seen small hammers hanging from the walls of
> Some pretty high tech trains recently. I presume they are for breaking the windows
> For exit in accidents. ( could be wrong ).
> How much effort would it take to break a K250 dome at it's apex?
> Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 3/09/2013, at 7:27 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well, that?s one I had to spend some thinking time on when PSUBS introduced the ?convention diving prerequisite? that hatches open from either side. I eventually came to a solution that was jointly developed with Greg Cottrell. We put a bevel on the bottom outside edge of the dome, and sealed it with an O ring instead of potting it. The dome floats on a flat ring of polycarbonate lubricated with vacuum grease, and is secured only with wing nuts, so that in the event of needing to open the sub from the outside, that can be readily done without tools. It is not strictly speaking a hatch you can operate from either side, but it does accomplish the goal of emergency access. I investigated other options similar to they've Deep Worker system, but could not come up with anything that would work ? the difference is that the Deep Workers have a massive hatch ring, which gives you a lot more to work with in terms of locating through-hulls or other hardware.
>>  
>> Personally what I would explore is closing the hatch with shock cord, so that in the event of an emergency you could just lift the hatch a little and slice through the cords. But for that to work, you would really need nicely machined surfaces. Snoopy?s is not re-machined after fabrication, and therefore requires the clamp pressure for the two surfaces to conform and make a proper initial seal.
>>  
>>  
>> Best,
>>  
>> Alec
>>  
>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of vbra676539 at aol.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:00 PM
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>>  
>> Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we could definitely do with something more user friendly.
>> Vance
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>> 
>> A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
>> Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
>> Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
>> regards
>> James 
>> 
>> On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>> We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>> Vance
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>> 
>> Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>>  
>> Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>> Kind Regards
>> James 
>>  
>> >I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>  
>> >Vance
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/6989ddd9/attachment-0001.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Tue Sep  3 14:36:20 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 14:36:20 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
 <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52262C24.9000107@psubs.org>


To be fair, ABS did not require hatches to be operable from both sides 
when the K-boats were designed and I believe the requirement was only 
just adopted in 2010.  Modifying the hatch isn't terribly complicated 
but would require a bit more fabrication, possibly one or more 
thru-hulls with o-ring sealed shafts similar to the front motors.  The 
guys in Michigan have such hatches on their subs so they could help us 
in that design.  I think the important thing is not necessarily a 
universal design but any reasonable modification that worked without 
compromising the integrity of the pressure boundary.  For example, 
Alec's solution for snoopy which not only serves the safety purpose but 
I suspect makes it much easier to perform maintenance on the dome and 
ring than it was when the dome was sealed in place with sikaflex.

The problem with destructive solutions such as using a circular saw or 
sawz-all in the "field" is that the rescue tool itself can fail whether 
it be battery depletion before the rescue is effected or simply dropping 
the tool in the water and having it short out.  A sledge hammer might 
work eventually but depending upon water conditions, can you get the 
leverage and stance you need to lodge a destructive blow in a reasonable 
amount of time?

Jon

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Tue Sep  3 14:37:31 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 14:37:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <9999B0E5-8EA2-4C8B-A1D2-B87FBF844B85@gmail.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
 <9999B0E5-8EA2-4C8B-A1D2-B87FBF844B85@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D076EBC8CC1964-10EC-485B6@Webmail-m114.sysops.aol.com>


A true submariner!!! Like the old saw about the four old friends who played golf every Tuesday without fail. When asked why he was so late on day, one of the four explains to his wife that another of their number, Ed, had died of a massive heart attack on the third fairway. She was horrified but wondered still why they were so late. Well, says he. You can imagine darling, how long it took. Hit the ball, drag Ed. Hit the ball, drag Ed...
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Alec <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:31 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



I don't think there's the slightest chance of the little hammer approach working. For a while, I used to pack a battery powered drill, and my plan was to drill out a circle to put my hand through. But the wing nut approach would take a fraction of the time. Plus, when you've dragged the dead pilot out you can put a new live one in and go diving as the hatch will still work!






On Sep 3, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:



I have seen small hammers hanging from the walls of
Some pretty high tech trains recently. I presume they are for breaking the windows
For exit in accidents. ( could be wrong ).
How much effort would it take to break a K250 dome at it's apex?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 3/09/2013, at 7:27 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:




Well, that?s one I had to spend some thinking time on when PSUBS introduced the ?convention diving prerequisite? that hatches open from either side. I eventually came to a solution that was jointly developed with Greg Cottrell. We put a bevel on the bottom outside edge of the dome, and sealed it with an O ring instead of potting it. The dome floats on a flat ring of polycarbonate lubricated with vacuum grease, and is secured only with wing nuts, so that in the event of needing to open the sub from the outside, that can be readily done without tools. It is not strictly speaking a hatch you can operate from either side, but it does accomplish the goal of emergency access. I investigated other options similar to they've Deep Worker system, but could not come up with anything that would work ? the difference is that the Deep Workers have a massive hatch ring, which gives you a lot more to work with in terms of locating through-hulls or other hardware.
 
Personally what I would explore is closing the hatch with shock cord, so that in the event of an emergency you could just lift the hatch a little and slice through the cords. But for that to work, you would really need nicely machined surfaces. Snoopy?s is not re-machined after fabrication, and therefore requires the clamp pressure for the two surfaces to conform and make a proper initial seal.
 
 
Best,
 
Alec
 
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]On Behalf Of vbra676539 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:00 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
 

Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we could definitely do with something more user friendly.

Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed


A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.

Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?

Alan


Sent from my iPad


On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:


Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.

regards

James 

On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:

We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.

Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed


Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.

 

Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)

Kind Regards

James 

 


>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?

 

>Vance


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/704bc957/attachment-0001.html>

From whitestar456 at manx.net  Tue Sep  3 14:46:13 2013
From: whitestar456 at manx.net (Graham Bayliss)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 19:46:13 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001cea8d5$deb72cd0$9c258670$@net>

Hi 

 

I am building Casper 2 and have redesigned the hatch i realise this is not
original to the kiterage design but i am willing to make the change rather
than be trapped inside my sub this allows someone to open from the outside.
I have put pictures on the club web site if any one wants to look.

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of greg cottrell
Sent: 03 September 2013 19:06
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed

 

I few years ago I was talking with George and suggested a few upgrades that
I could manufacture for k-subs and offer with his approval. His response was
that no changes could be offered because the original design (actually the
vast design) was ABS certified and this offered some liability protection
that might be void if any changes were made.

 

I don't know if it really mattered but that's how he felt. With that in
mind, it might be possible to offer "generic" parts that could work on the
k-boats without using the Kittredge name.

 

Greg

 

 

 

From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed

 

Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if
there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.
Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as
i have the dish.

regards

James  

On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:

We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I
think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches
are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction
drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't
bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our
requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.

Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed

Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone
wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the
winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut
out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.

 

Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new
kitchen at home.. :)

Kind Regards

James 

 

>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified
with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub
>without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it.
Maybe something for the next conference?

 

>Vance


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/5262e0e7/attachment.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  3 15:00:09 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 12:00:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
 <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378234809.81947.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

You're right about that, Hank. Sub pilots are a dime a dozen but nice domes are hard to find!
?
?
?


________________________________
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



Alan,
I bet a lot of force, plus what about shrapnel hitting the pilot.? I think a saws all would do the trick.? Isn't there a rule in the submarine bible, thou shalt not wreck a perfectly good dome.?
Hank


________________________________
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 11:57:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



I have seen small hammers hanging from the walls of
Some pretty high tech trains recently. I presume they are for breaking the windows
For exit in accidents. ( could be wrong ).
How much effort would it take to break a K250 dome at it's apex?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 3/09/2013, at 7:27 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:


Well, that?s one I had to spend some thinking time on when PSUBS introduced the ?convention diving prerequisite? that hatches open from either side. I eventually came to a solution that was jointly developed with Greg Cottrell. We put a bevel on the bottom outside edge of the dome, and sealed it with an O ring instead of potting it. The dome floats on a flat ring of polycarbonate lubricated with vacuum grease, and is secured only with wing nuts, so that in the event of needing to open the sub from the outside, that can be readily done without tools. It is not strictly speaking a hatch you can operate from either side, but it does accomplish the goal of emergency access. I investigated other options similar to they've Deep Worker system, but could not come up with anything that would work ? the difference is that the Deep Workers have a massive hatch ring, which gives you a lot more to work with in terms of locating through-hulls or other hardware.
>?
>Personally what I would explore is closing the hatch with shock cord, so that in the event of an emergency you could just lift the hatch a little and slice through the cords. But for that to work, you would really need nicely machined surfaces. Snoopy?s is not re-machined after fabrication, and therefore requires the clamp pressure for the two surfaces to conform and make a proper initial seal.
>?
>?
>Best,
>?
>Alec
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of vbra676539 at aol.com
>Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:00 PM
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we could definitely do with something more user friendly.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
>Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
>Alan
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:
>Well, its just an idea\thought.? Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.? Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
>>regards
>>James? 
>>On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>>We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>>Vance
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>>Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.? If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a?"club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.? I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole?II cut out.? Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>>?
>>Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>>Kind Regards
>>James?
>>?
>>>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone?on the outside?to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>>?
>>>>Vance
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>?
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>?
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/933867d8/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Sep  3 20:52:14 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 17:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal
In-Reply-To: <000001cea8d5$deb72cd0$9c258670$@net>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <000001cea8d5$deb72cd0$9c258670$@net>
Message-ID: <1378255934.95415.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I have been searching for a replacement seal for my propeller shaft in Gamma.? I found a seal for 130 dollars, it is 5/8 by 1 1/8 .? The seal is rated for 5,000?psi? and can handle 1,700 rpm?.?? This seal is a spring loaded lip seal for water hydraulics.? The seal has an O-ring on the outside to seal it to the housing.? How cool is that ?
Hank?

From: Graham Bayliss <whitestar456 at manx.net>
To: 'greg cottrell' <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>; 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:46:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed



Hi 
?
I am building Casper 2 and have redesigned the hatch i realise this is not original to the kiterage design but i am willing to make the change rather than be trapped inside my sub this allows someone to open from the outside. I have put pictures on the club web site if any one wants to look.
?
From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of greg cottrell
Sent: 03 September 2013 19:06
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
?
I few years ago I was talking with George and suggested a few upgrades that I could manufacture for k-subs and offer with his approval. His response was that no changes could be offered because the original design (actually the vast design) was ABS certified and this offered some liability protection that might be void if any changes were made.
?
I don't know if it really mattered but that's how he felt. With that in mind, it might be possible to offer?"generic" parts that?could work on the k-boats without using the Kittredge name.
?
Greg
?
?
?
From:James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
?
Well, its just an idea\thought.? Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.? Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
regards
James? 
On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.? If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a?"club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.? I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole?II cut out.? Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
?
Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
Kind Regards
James?
?
>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone?on the outside?to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>?
>>Vance
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
?
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
?

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/f95b4852/attachment.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Tue Sep  3 21:36:34 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 21:36:34 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal
In-Reply-To: <1378255934.95415.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <000001cea8d5$deb72cd0$9c258670$@net>
 <1378255934.95415.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7ED92A0F-E912-4502-807F-A69F40CCD2EF@gmail.com>

Hi Hank,

I once bought (and still have) some custom made Parker lip seals that sound very much like those, but careful with two things:

The top pressure was for low rpm, and the top rpm for low pressure. You could not run them at BOTH top speed and top pressure. The specs included a graph of speed vs. pressure and one had to stay below the line.

In addition they were very particular about the shaft finish. Too rough and it would eat the seal, too smooth and it would not lubricate it sufficiently (they were lubricated by a film of water). You could get little slip-on bands for the shaft, with just the required finish.

All I'm saying is be sure to check the detailed product literature.


Best,

Alec



On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I have been searching for a replacement seal for my propeller shaft in Gamma.  I found a seal for 130 dollars, it is 5/8 by 1 1/8 .  The seal is rated for 5,000 psi  and can handle 1,700 rpm .   This seal is a spring loaded lip seal for water hydraulics.  The seal has an O-ring on the outside to seal it to the housing.  How cool is that ?
> Hank 
> 
> From: Graham Bayliss <whitestar456 at manx.net>
> To: 'greg cottrell' <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>; 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:46:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
> 
> Hi
>  
> I am building Casper 2 and have redesigned the hatch i realise this is not original to the kiterage design but i am willing to make the change rather than be trapped inside my sub this allows someone to open from the outside. I have put pictures on the club web site if any one wants to look.
>  
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of greg cottrell
> Sent: 03 September 2013 19:06
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>  
> I few years ago I was talking with George and suggested a few upgrades that I could manufacture for k-subs and offer with his approval. His response was that no changes could be offered because the original design (actually the vast design) was ABS certified and this offered some liability protection that might be void if any changes were made.
>  
> I don't know if it really mattered but that's how he felt. With that in mind, it might be possible to offer "generic" parts that could work on the k-boats without using the Kittredge name.
>  
> Greg
>  
>  
>  
> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>  
> Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
> regards
> James 
> On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
> We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
> Vance
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
> Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>  
> Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
> Kind Regards
> James 
>  
> >I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>  
> >Vance
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130903/5e248524/attachment-0001.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Wed Sep  4 04:53:25 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 09:53:25 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
In-Reply-To: <1378234809.81947.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C45EB03C-1815-4B42-A12C-FEAC1E9265B2@yahoo.com>
 <8D076DE36EBA44D-1CA0-49C98@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>
 <81a4cf3f9ca54aa88b5cc6c125f9704f@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <5C507D70-AF48-4893-91D5-955C49C2C219@yahoo.com>
 <1378231407.66729.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378234809.81947.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UCbcVsUNG5R7nuHWG9F6WGQOokMues79yu4hPMN2HLstQ@mail.gmail.com>

to be fair, my hatch can be opened from the outside, just not very
quickly.  The viewport is sealed with an O ring and is not glued in, so
someone could undo the bolts, pop out the lens and stick their hand in to
release the latches.  It would just take a bit of time, and need a
spanner.  Maybe i'll change them to wing nuts, that idea has potential.

regards
James

On 3 September 2013 20:00, greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  You're right about that, Hank. Sub pilots are a dime a dozen but nice
> domes are hard to find!
>
>
>
>
>   *From:* hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 3, 2013 2:03 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>   Alan,
> I bet a lot of force, plus what about shrapnel hitting the pilot.  I think
> a saws all would do the trick.  Isn't there a rule in the submarine bible,
> thou shalt not wreck a perfectly good dome.
> Hank
>   *From:* Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 3, 2013 11:57:43 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>  I have seen small hammers hanging from the walls of
> Some pretty high tech trains recently. I presume they are for breaking the
> windows
> For exit in accidents. ( could be wrong ).
> How much effort would it take to break a K250 dome at it's apex?
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 3/09/2013, at 7:27 PM, "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:
>
>   Well, that?s one I had to spend some thinking time on when PSUBS
> introduced the ?convention diving prerequisite? that hatches open from
> either side. I eventually came to a solution that was jointly developed
> with Greg Cottrell. We put a bevel on the bottom outside edge of the dome,
> and sealed it with an O ring instead of potting it. The dome floats on a
> flat ring of polycarbonate lubricated with vacuum grease, and is secured
> only with wing nuts, so that in the event of needing to open the sub from
> the outside, that can be readily done without tools. It is not strictly
> speaking a hatch you can operate from either side, but it does accomplish
> the goal of emergency access. I investigated other options similar to
> they've Deep Worker system, but could not come up with anything that would
> work ? the difference is that the Deep Workers have a massive hatch ring,
> which gives you a lot more to work with in terms of locating through-hulls
> or other hardware.
>
> Personally what I would explore is closing the hatch with shock cord, so
> that in the event of an emergency you could just lift the hatch a little
> and slice through the cords. But for that to work, you would really need
> nicely machined surfaces. Snoopy?s is not re-machined after fabrication,
> and therefore requires the clamp pressure for the two surfaces to conform
> and make a proper initial seal.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [
> mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *vbra676539 at aol.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:00 PM
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>  Finding a inside/outside hatch closure for Captain George's K-250 dome
> would be a real boon, in my view. It might not have to be quite Deepworker
> strong, as we aren't lifting the Ks by their hats, so to speak. But we
> could definitely do with something more user friendly.
>  Vance
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 9:40 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>   A while back Emile offered plans for his submarine.
>  Perhaps there is the option of adopting them over the K boat plans?
>  Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 3/09/2013, at 6:10 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Well, its just an idea\thought.  Im not sure on the legalities of it,
> but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and
> test it.  Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the
> winter, seeing as i have the dish.
>  regards
>  James
>  On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>  We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That
> said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although
> the hatches are heavier than we need) and aaI have an archive of the Nekton
> construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to apreserve. If the legal
> end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven
> technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the
> K-plans sold on the site.
>  Vance
>   -----Original Message-----
> From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>   Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.  If
> anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a "club design" i'm happy to make it
> over the winter.  I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap
> hole II cut out.  Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>
>  Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new
> kitchen at home.. :)
>  Kind Regards
>  James
>
>
>  >I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch
> >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into
> a sub >without some way for someone on the outside to help us, should we
> need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>
>  >Vance
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130904/40403670/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Wed Sep  4 08:18:15 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 08:18:15 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters
Message-ID: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Sep  4 08:34:13 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 05:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal
In-Reply-To: <7ED92A0F-E912-4502-807F-A69F40CCD2EF@gmail.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <000001cea8d5$deb72cd0$9c258670$@net>
 <1378255934.95415.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <7ED92A0F-E912-4502-807F-A69F40CCD2EF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1378298053.97406.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Alec,
Thank's for the info.
I know that the shaft needs to be plunge ground with the correct ?Rockwell hardness.? I did not know the about the speed versus pressure.? I have sent them a request for the graph.? I had a hard time getting the specs from them.? I had to ask several times.
Hank

From: Alec <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 7:36:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal



Hi Hank,

I once bought (and still have) some custom made Parker lip seals that sound very much like those, but careful with two things:

The top pressure was for low rpm, and the top rpm for low pressure. You could not run them at BOTH top speed and top pressure. The specs included a graph of speed vs. pressure and one had to stay below the line.

In addition they were very particular about the shaft finish. Too rough and it would eat the seal, too smooth and it would not lubricate it sufficiently (they were lubricated by a film of water).?You could get little slip-on bands for the shaft, with just the required finish.

All I'm saying is be sure to check the detailed product literature.


Best,

Alec




On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


I have been searching for a replacement seal for my propeller shaft in Gamma.? I found a seal for 130 dollars, it is 5/8 by 1 1/8 .? The seal is rated for 5,000?psi? and can handle 1,700 rpm?.?? This seal is a spring loaded lip seal for water hydraulics.? The seal has an O-ring on the outside to seal it to the housing.? How cool is that ?
>Hank?
>
>
>From: Graham Bayliss <whitestar456 at manx.net>
>To: 'greg cottrell' <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>; 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:46:13 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>
>
>Hi 
>?
>I am building Casper 2 and have redesigned the hatch i realise this is not original to the kiterage design but i am willing to make the change rather than be trapped inside my sub this allows someone to open from the outside. I have put pictures on the club web site if any one wants to look.
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of greg cottrell
>Sent: 03 September 2013 19:06
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>I few years ago I was talking with George and suggested a few upgrades that I could manufacture for k-subs and offer with his approval. His response was that no changes could be offered because the original design (actually the vast design) was ABS certified and this offered some liability protection that might be void if any changes were made.
>?
>I don't know if it really mattered but that's how he felt. With that in mind, it might be possible to offer?"generic" parts that?could work on the k-boats without using the Kittredge name.
>?
>Greg
>?
>?
>?
>From:James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>?
>Well, its just an idea\thought.? Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.? Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
>regards
>James? 
>On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.? If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a?"club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.? I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole?II cut out.? Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>?
>Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>Kind Regards
>James?
>?
>>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone?on the outside?to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>?
>>>Vance
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>?
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>?
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130904/49e3f7a7/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  4 08:41:17 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 05:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal
In-Reply-To: <1378298053.97406.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <000001cea8d5$deb72cd0$9c258670$@net>
 <1378255934.95415.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <7ED92A0F-E912-4502-807F-A69F40CCD2EF@gmail.com>
 <1378298053.97406.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378298477.19503.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
?
Is it a Parker seal?
?
Thanks,
Greg


________________________________
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal



Hi Alec,
Thank's for the info.
I know that the shaft needs to be plunge ground with the correct ?Rockwell hardness.? I did not know the about the speed versus pressure.? I have sent them a request for the graph.? I had a hard time getting the specs from them.? I had to ask several times.
Hank


________________________________
From: Alec <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 7:36:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal



Hi Hank,

I once bought (and still have) some custom made Parker lip seals that sound very much like those, but careful with two things:

The top pressure was for low rpm, and the top rpm for low pressure. You could not run them at BOTH top speed and top pressure. The specs included a graph of speed vs. pressure and one had to stay below the line.

In addition they were very particular about the shaft finish. Too rough and it would eat the seal, too smooth and it would not lubricate it sufficiently (they were lubricated by a film of water).?You could get little slip-on bands for the shaft, with just the required finish.

All I'm saying is be sure to check the detailed product literature.


Best,

Alec




On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


I have been searching for a replacement seal for my propeller shaft in Gamma.? I found a seal for 130 dollars, it is 5/8 by 1 1/8 .? The seal is rated for 5,000?psi? and can handle 1,700 rpm?.?? This seal is a spring loaded lip seal for water hydraulics.? The seal has an O-ring on the outside to seal it to the housing.? How cool is that ?
>Hank?
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Graham Bayliss <whitestar456 at manx.net>
>To: 'greg cottrell' <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>; 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:46:13 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>
>
>Hi 
>?
>I am building Casper 2 and have redesigned the hatch i realise this is not original to the kiterage design but i am willing to make the change rather than be trapped inside my sub this allows someone to open from the outside. I have put pictures on the club web site if any one wants to look.
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of greg cottrell
>Sent: 03 September 2013 19:06
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>I few years ago I was talking with George and suggested a few upgrades that I could manufacture for k-subs and offer with his approval. His response was that no changes could be offered because the original design (actually the vast design) was ABS certified and this offered some liability protection that might be void if any changes were made.
>?
>I don't know if it really mattered but that's how he felt. With that in mind, it might be possible to offer?"generic" parts that?could work on the k-boats without using the Kittredge name.
>?
>Greg
>?
>?
>?
>From:James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>?
>Well, its just an idea\thought.? Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.? Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
>regards
>James? 
>On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.? If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a?"club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.? I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole?II cut out.? Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>?
>Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>Kind Regards
>James?
>?
>>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone?on the outside?to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>?
>>>Vance
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>?
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>?
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130904/4c6a37e8/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Sep  4 13:39:21 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 10:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal
In-Reply-To: <1378298477.19503.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D0763066FDF0E2-C54-44AEA@webmail-m298.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UBCB887TyCp4qCXcBxCGXiUHt7iNEcc1-5qf093gT3=1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D076CA1DB366CD-18EC-4A394@webmail-m287.sysops.aol.com>
 <CAHpB=UAL60D2K598Xj8He+D+uSJS+U39vnGx=cR2ONVeBFW1TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1378231546.34681.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <000001cea8d5$deb72cd0$9c258670$@net>
 <1378255934.95415.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <7ED92A0F-E912-4502-807F-A69F40CCD2EF@gmail.com>
 <1378298053.97406.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378298477.19503.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378316361.14466.YahooMailNeo@web120706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Greg,
It is an American High Performance seal.
Hank

From: greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:41:17 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal



Hank,
?
Is it a Parker seal?
?
Thanks,
Greg

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal



Hi Alec,
Thank's for the info.
I know that the shaft needs to be plunge ground with the correct ?Rockwell hardness.? I did not know the about the speed versus pressure.? I have sent them a request for the graph.? I had a hard time getting the specs from them.? I had to ask several times.
Hank

From: Alec <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 7:36:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] awsome seal



Hi Hank,

I once bought (and still have) some custom made Parker lip seals that sound very much like those, but careful with two things:

The top pressure was for low rpm, and the top rpm for low pressure. You could not run them at BOTH top speed and top pressure. The specs included a graph of speed vs. pressure and one had to stay below the line.

In addition they were very particular about the shaft finish. Too rough and it would eat the seal, too smooth and it would not lubricate it sufficiently (they were lubricated by a film of water).?You could get little slip-on bands for the shaft, with just the required finish.

All I'm saying is be sure to check the detailed product literature.


Best,

Alec




On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


I have been searching for a replacement seal for my propeller shaft in Gamma.? I found a seal for 130 dollars, it is 5/8 by 1 1/8 .? The seal is rated for 5,000?psi? and can handle 1,700 rpm?.?? This seal is a spring loaded lip seal for water hydraulics.? The seal has an O-ring on the outside to seal it to the housing.? How cool is that ?
>Hank?
>
>
>From: Graham Bayliss <whitestar456 at manx.net>
>To: 'greg cottrell' <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>; 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:46:13 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>
>
>Hi 
>?
>I am building Casper 2 and have redesigned the hatch i realise this is not original to the kiterage design but i am willing to make the change rather than be trapped inside my sub this allows someone to open from the outside. I have put pictures on the club web site if any one wants to look.
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of greg cottrell
>Sent: 03 September 2013 19:06
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>
>I few years ago I was talking with George and suggested a few upgrades that I could manufacture for k-subs and offer with his approval. His response was that no changes could be offered because the original design (actually the vast design) was ABS certified and this offered some liability protection that might be void if any changes were made.
>?
>I don't know if it really mattered but that's how he felt. With that in mind, it might be possible to offer?"generic" parts that?could work on the k-boats without using the Kittredge name.
>?
>Greg
>?
>?
>?
>From:James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>?
>Well, its just an idea\thought.? Im not sure on the legalities of it, but if there was a Kboat replacement, id be happy to make a prototype and test it.? Otherwise i will probably make a new hatch anyway over the winter, seeing as i have the dish.
>regards
>James? 
>On 3 September 2013 15:36, <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>We'll need to get Jon in on this for liability considerations. That said, I think there might be a set of Perry drawings out there (although the hatches are heavier than we need) and I have an archive of the Nekton construction drawings that I'm looking for a way to preserve. If the legal end doesn't bite us, then I'm sure we can figure how to adapt proven technology to our requirements, and then provide the result with the K-plans sold on the site.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] vacuum packed
>Agree strongly with Vance here, the standard K hatch is rubbish.? If anyone wants to chip in any ideas for a?"club design" i'm happy to make it over the winter.? I have a spare dish which was left over from the endcap hole?II cut out.? Its just the right size, dished and 13mm thick.
>?
>Otherwise im probably going to make one anyway (once ive put in a new kitchen at home.. :)
>Kind Regards
>James?
>?
>>I do think it would serve us well for someone to design a K-hatch >modified with thru-hatch closure. It is truly nutty to bolt ourselves into a sub >without some way for someone?on the outside?to help us, should we need >it. Maybe something for the next conference?
>>?
>>>Vance
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>?
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>?
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130904/abdc2e07/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Sep  4 18:58:31 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 15:58:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
References: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>



I have a two part question,
Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.? I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop is more fuel efficient.? It should increase battery range and slow down the shaft speed, helping the seal.
I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of using it on Gamma
The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
Hank

From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130904/b882276b/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 08:16:35 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 05:16:35 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
Message-ID: <20130905051635.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.337cd3d993.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/e3ccb4fa/attachment.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  5 08:20:01 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 05:20:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
 <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
?
I was standing in Frank Busby's kitchen one day many years ago discussing this same question.? He had returned from?Finland on a mission to carefully document two deep diving subs being built there for the Soviets? (Finland agreed under threat of economic sanctions to allow the inspection). The two subs in question had very large stern props driven by hydraulics that turned very slowly. They were later named Mir 1 & 2. Frank compared the concept to ice breaking ships that use huge props that turn very slowly. It's quite efficient because there is little energy wasted on turbulence and cavitation.
?
Also, in the realm of human powered subs, the winners have all had large diameter low aspect ratio props that look for like aircraft props. 
?
But there are trade offs-?gear reduction will use a little power. Belt reduction a little less. There is more drag on a big prop when it is not turning (unless you feather it).Fouling a big prop is? more likely unless you put it in a big cage. But if the goal is lower shaft speed then it can be a good way to go.
?
Greg
?
?
?
?


________________________________
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:58 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size





I have a two part question,
Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.? I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop is more fuel efficient.? It should increase battery range and slow down the shaft speed, helping the seal.
I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of using it on Gamma
The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
Hank


________________________________
From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/66b5d0f2/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 08:22:47 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 05:22:47 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <20130905052247.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56a5a8846e.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/670825e1/attachment-0001.html>

From cast55 at telus.net  Thu Sep  5 08:36:45 2013
From: cast55 at telus.net (Sean T. Stevenson)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 06:36:45 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <20130905051635.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.337cd3d993.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20130905051635.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.337cd3d993.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1f46c7e1-0005-44a6-b8b2-04b55611c8c6@email.android.com>

Concur - this is an excellent reference. The only place it falls short is in its addressing of propeller shrouds (Kort nozzles), but then technically these are fairings / hull form surfaces and could be considered outside the scope.

Sean


swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>I would recommend getting the propeller hand book by Dave Gerr. I
>bought it when I was trying to select a prop for my submarine. It has
>every calculation and explanation you could ever want in it.  
>
>Thanks,
>
>Scott Waters
>
> 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Wed, September 04, 2013 3:58 pm
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>I have a two part question,
>
>Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency. 
>I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop
>is more fuel efficient.  It should increase battery range and slow down
>the shaft speed, helping the seal.
>
>I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of
>using it on Gamma
>
>The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to
>calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
>
>Hank
>
>From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters
>
>
>
>http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_____________________________________________
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/638c8b18/attachment.html>

From piolenc at archivale.com  Thu Sep  5 08:42:05 2013
From: piolenc at archivale.com (Marc de Piolenc)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 20:42:05 +0800
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
 <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52287C1D.2070109@archivale.com>

It's not the low speed, but the large diameter of the propeller that 
gives better STATIC thrust per horsepower. The advantage of a larger 
prop is less under cruise conditions where the mass flow through the 
propeller is larger due to forward motion and it has only the drag of 
the sub to overcome. In fact, you really need to go through detailed 
calculation to make sure that a larger propeller is really of any use in 
your application.

Low rotation speed is NOT an advantage, though it may be dictated by the 
propulsion machinery. Low speed, high torque propeller drive gives high 
swirl loss in the wake, while higher speed and lower torque minimize swirl.

Best,
Marc de Piolenc

On 9/5/2013 8:20 PM, greg cottrell wrote:

> I was standing in Frank Busby's kitchen one day many years ago
> discussing this same question.  He had returned from Finland on a
> mission to carefully document two deep diving subs being built there for
> the Soviets  (Finland agreed under threat of economic sanctions to allow
> the inspection). The two subs in question had very large stern props
> driven by hydraulics that turned very slowly. They were later named Mir
> 1 & 2. Frank compared the concept to ice breaking ships that use huge
> props that turn very slowly. It's quite efficient because there is
> little energy wasted on turbulence and cavitation.
> Also, in the realm of human powered subs, the winners have all had large
> diameter low aspect ratio props that look for like aircraft props.
> But there are trade offs- gear reduction will use a little power. Belt
> reduction a little less. There is more drag on a big prop when it is not
> turning (unless you feather it).Fouling a big prop is  more likely
> unless you put it in a big cage. But if the goal is lower shaft speed
> then it can be a good way to go.
> Greg
>
> *From:* hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:58 PM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
>
>
> I have a two part question,
> Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.
> I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop
> is more fuel efficient.  It should increase battery range and slow down
> the shaft speed, helping the seal.
> I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of
> using it on Gamma
> The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to
> calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
> Hank
> *From:* Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters
>
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep  5 08:43:57 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 05:43:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
 <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378385037.37766.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Greg,
thanks' for the input.? Reducing the shaft speed is not the only goal, but a very attractive benefit.? I hadn't considered the extra entanglement threat.? There is the cool factor, are we allowed to include that?? :-)?? I need to replace my motor and I am missing the key mounting brackets.? I have a new motor with a gear reduction on it.? It seems like a good time to make the change if it makes sense.? I will loose about 5% with gearing and one bearing.? I just wonder if I will gain 5% with the larger prop.? If it were even, there is still the shaft speed to consider.

From: greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:20:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size



Hank,
?
I was standing in Frank Busby's kitchen one day many years ago discussing this same question.? He had returned from?Finland on a mission to carefully document two deep diving subs being built there for the Soviets? (Finland agreed under threat of economic sanctions to allow the inspection). The two subs in question had very large stern props driven by hydraulics that turned very slowly. They were later named Mir 1 & 2. Frank compared the concept to ice breaking ships that use huge props that turn very slowly. It's quite efficient because there is little energy wasted on turbulence and cavitation.
?
Also, in the realm of human powered subs, the winners have all had large diameter low aspect ratio props that look for like aircraft props. 
?
But there are trade offs-?gear reduction will use a little power. Belt reduction a little less. There is more drag on a big prop when it is not turning (unless you feather it).Fouling a big prop is? more likely unless you put it in a big cage. But if the goal is lower shaft speed then it can be a good way to go.
?
Greg
?
?
?
?

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:58 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size





I have a two part question,
Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.? I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop is more fuel efficient.? It should increase battery range and slow down the shaft speed, helping the seal.
I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of using it on Gamma
The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
Hank

From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/33869f4a/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  5 08:57:14 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 05:57:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <20130905052247.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56a5a8846e.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20130905052247.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56a5a8846e.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1378385834.25143.YahooMailNeo@web121904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

A couple of other suggestions:
?
Good dive lights rated for the maximum depth you'll be diving. You need lights that will work if you have to flood.
Inflatable PFDs. (takes up less space)
Escape hoods.
Multi-tool with knife.
Vise grips.
pony bottle (spare air is a little small)
Wetsuit jacket makes a cumfy seat cushion.
?
?
Also, trying to re pack sodasorb in the sub can be messy. I like Hanks idea of a back up scrubber already packed. The other opition is to use extendair canisters instead of granules.
?
?
Greg
?
?

________________________________
From: "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: psubs <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 8:22 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub



I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I currently have
*Needle nose pliers
*Crescent Wrench
*Screwdriver
*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)
*2 life jackets 
*Fire Extinguisher
*Spare air
*Extra sodasorb

With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary? 

Thanks,
Scott Waters
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/d136cb1a/attachment.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  5 09:02:15 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 06:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <1378385037.37766.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
 <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378385037.37766.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378386135.6291.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Correction- I meant to say "high aspect ratio" instead of Low.



________________________________
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size



Hi Greg,
thanks' for the input.? Reducing the shaft speed is not the only goal, but a very attractive benefit.? I hadn't considered the extra entanglement threat.? There is the cool factor, are we allowed to include that?? :-)?? I need to replace my motor and I am missing the key mounting brackets.? I have a new motor with a gear reduction on it.? It seems like a good time to make the change if it makes sense.? I will loose about 5% with gearing and one bearing.? I just wonder if I will gain 5% with the larger prop.? If it were even, there is still the shaft speed to consider.


________________________________
From: greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:20:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size



Hank,
?
I was standing in Frank Busby's kitchen one day many years ago discussing this same question.? He had returned from?Finland on a mission to carefully document two deep diving subs being built there for the Soviets? (Finland agreed under threat of economic sanctions to allow the inspection). The two subs in question had very large stern props driven by hydraulics that turned very slowly. They were later named Mir 1 & 2. Frank compared the concept to ice breaking ships that use huge props that turn very slowly. It's quite efficient because there is little energy wasted on turbulence and cavitation.
?
Also, in the realm of human powered subs, the winners have all had large diameter low aspect ratio props that look for like aircraft props. 
?
But there are trade offs-?gear reduction will use a little power. Belt reduction a little less. There is more drag on a big prop when it is not turning (unless you feather it).Fouling a big prop is? more likely unless you put it in a big cage. But if the goal is lower shaft speed then it can be a good way to go.
?
Greg
?
?
?
?


________________________________
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:58 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size





I have a two part question,
Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.? I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop is more fuel efficient.? It should increase battery range and slow down the shaft speed, helping the seal.
I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of using it on Gamma
The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
Hank


________________________________
From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/b04b92e8/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  5 09:05:26 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 06:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <52287C1D.2070109@archivale.com>
References: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
 <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <52287C1D.2070109@archivale.com>
Message-ID: <1378386326.26214.YahooMailNeo@web121905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I'll be sure to tell the human powered sub guys.



________________________________
From: Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size


It's not the low speed, but the large diameter of the propeller that 
gives better STATIC thrust per horsepower. The advantage of a larger 
prop is less under cruise conditions where the mass flow through the 
propeller is larger due to forward motion and it has only the drag of 
the sub to overcome. In fact, you really need to go through detailed 
calculation to make sure that a larger propeller is really of any use in 
your application.

Low rotation speed is NOT an advantage, though it may be dictated by the 
propulsion machinery. Low speed, high torque propeller drive gives high 
swirl loss in the wake, while higher speed and lower torque minimize swirl.

Best,
Marc de Piolenc

On 9/5/2013 8:20 PM, greg cottrell wrote:

> I was standing in Frank Busby's kitchen one day many years ago
> discussing this same question.? He had returned from Finland on a
> mission to carefully document two deep diving subs being built there for
> the Soviets? (Finland agreed under threat of economic sanctions to allow
> the inspection). The two subs in question had very large stern props
> driven by hydraulics that turned very slowly. They were later named Mir
> 1 & 2. Frank compared the concept to ice breaking ships that use huge
> props that turn very slowly. It's quite efficient because there is
> little energy wasted on turbulence and cavitation.
> Also, in the realm of human powered subs, the winners have all had large
> diameter low aspect ratio props that look for like aircraft props.
> But there are trade offs- gear reduction will use a little power. Belt
> reduction a little less. There is more drag on a big prop when it is not
> turning (unless you feather it).Fouling a big prop is? more likely
> unless you put it in a big cage. But if the goal is lower shaft speed
> then it can be a good way to go.
> Greg
>
> *From:* hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:58 PM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
>
>
> I have a two part question,
> Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.
> I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop
> is more fuel efficient.? It should increase battery range and slow down
> the shaft speed, helping the seal.
> I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of
> using it on Gamma
> The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to
> calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
> Hank
> *From:* Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters
>
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/2d361b74/attachment.html>

From Alec.Smyth at covisint.com  Thu Sep  5 09:07:56 2013
From: Alec.Smyth at covisint.com (Smyth, Alec)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 13:07:56 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <1378385037.37766.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <52272507.5050300@psubs.org>
 <1378335511.22360.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378383601.66253.YahooMailNeo@web121901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1378385037.37766.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e4920b8d8aa94039955a60c9802893ce@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Hank,

Although the calculations are in the propeller handbook and easy to do, there are significant guesstimates in them due things like the drag of your hull form being unknown.  You have an unusual advantage in that your sub is the first of a family that are, I think, all quite similar in shape and size. I'm not sure; I say that just based on seeing photos. They've been running around for so many years, I expect you would not be far off the mark if you could find out what prop and reduction is being used on the current Nektons.

Best,

Alec

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:44 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size

Hi Greg,
thanks' for the input.  Reducing the shaft speed is not the only goal, but a very attractive benefit.  I hadn't considered the extra entanglement threat.  There is the cool factor, are we allowed to include that?  :-)   I need to replace my motor and I am missing the key mounting brackets.  I have a new motor with a gear reduction on it.  It seems like a good time to make the change if it makes sense.  I will loose about 5% with gearing and one bearing.  I just wonder if I will gain 5% with the larger prop.  If it were even, there is still the shaft speed to consider.

From: greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com<mailto:jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:20:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size

Hank,

I was standing in Frank Busby's kitchen one day many years ago discussing this same question.  He had returned from Finland on a mission to carefully document two deep diving subs being built there for the Soviets  (Finland agreed under threat of economic sanctions to allow the inspection). The two subs in question had very large stern props driven by hydraulics that turned very slowly. They were later named Mir 1 & 2. Frank compared the concept to ice breaking ships that use huge props that turn very slowly. It's quite efficient because there is little energy wasted on turbulence and cavitation.

Also, in the realm of human powered subs, the winners have all had large diameter low aspect ratio props that look for like aircraft props.

But there are trade offs- gear reduction will use a little power. Belt reduction a little less. There is more drag on a big prop when it is not turning (unless you feather it).Fouling a big prop is  more likely unless you put it in a big cage. But if the goal is lower shaft speed then it can be a good way to go.

Greg





From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca<mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:58 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size


I have a two part question,
Is it beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.  I was under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop is more fuel efficient.  It should increase battery range and slow down the shaft speed, helping the seal.
I have a much larger prop left over from boating and I am thinking of using it on Gamma
The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability to calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
Hank
From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org<mailto:jonw at psubs.org>>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in them-thar waters


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/b66c86d3/attachment-0001.html>

From Alec.Smyth at covisint.com  Thu Sep  5 09:07:55 2013
From: Alec.Smyth at covisint.com (Smyth, Alec)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 13:07:55 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <20130905052247.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56a5a8846e.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20130905052247.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56a5a8846e.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <d01666fc959a40b1909d4d25cced4e5b@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Some ideas?


-          Flashlight

-          Radio

-          Kitchen timers (2)

-          Spare fuses

-          Spare scrubber blower

-          Spare batteries

-          Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it?s a Coast Guard requirement and you want them happy)

I?ve seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda. The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion. I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries. I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you have a hotel battery inside.

Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don?t need to go in the sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day.


Best,

Alec


From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AM
To: psubs
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I currently have
*Needle nose pliers
*Crescent Wrench
*Screwdriver
*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)
*2 life jackets
*Fire Extinguisher
*Spare air
*Extra sodasorb

With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary?

Thanks,
Scott Waters
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/4f72019f/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 09:17:01 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 06:17:01 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <20130905061701.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.4db2bcde25.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/c58fd36c/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 09:25:49 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 06:25:49 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <20130905062549.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f8faa64d4a.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/8b017873/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 09:57:16 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 06:57:16 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
Message-ID: <20130905065716.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.98900f22df.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/6f66fc1d/attachment-0001.html>

From emile at airesearch.nl  Thu Sep  5 10:03:31 2013
From: emile at airesearch.nl (Emile van Essen)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 16:03:31 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <d01666fc959a40b1909d4d25cced4e5b@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAa1mcRXjqQUS/LkZGdHE+xwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Alec, Scott and Greg

 

-I also have dive masks. For exit and also in case of a cable fire.

- If the air horn is of the type with a compressed gas canister, I regard it
as dangerous. The gas is often flammable (and if not : toxic)! You can
operate an air horn with mid-pressure air from the sub.

- An old style BCD jacket with own small bottle an additional dive mask
(picture)  combines a life jacket with a escape hood.

-If your LSS is okay for 72 Hours, bring also drinking water , food, playing
cards and whiskey..

 

Regards, Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens Smyth, Alec
Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 15:08
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

 

Some ideas.

 

-         Flashlight

-         Radio 

-         Kitchen timers (2)

-         Spare fuses

-         Spare scrubber blower

-         Spare batteries

-         Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it's a Coast Guard
requirement and you want them happy)

 

I've seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher
used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda.
The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion.
I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries.
I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you
have a hotel battery inside.

 

Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and
what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled
Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don't need to go in the
sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day. 

 

 

Best,

 

Alec

 

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AM
To: psubs
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

 

I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I
currently have

*Needle nose pliers

*Crescent Wrench

*Screwdriver

*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)

*2 life jackets 

*Fire Extinguisher

*Spare air

*Extra sodasorb

 

With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary? 

 

Thanks,

Scott Waters

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/8fb9e32d/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Lifejacket 012.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 15892 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/8fb9e32d/attachment-0001.jpe>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 10:16:05 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 07:16:05 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <20130905071605.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c29693bbe7.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/caa3a4f3/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 10:23:41 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 07:23:41 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <20130905072341.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6ceefb9111.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/8486771d/attachment-0001.html>

From emile at airesearch.nl  Thu Sep  5 10:45:28 2013
From: emile at airesearch.nl (Emile van Essen)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 16:45:28 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <20130905072341.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6ceefb9111.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAGKBKnu60fU2nG3st/k8OiwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Scott,

 

I your coast guard demands a approver life vest; there are very compact ones
that can be inflated but jerking a trigger. (not inside the sub.)

The military sub escape suits might be too expensive unless you can purchase
one over the expiry date.

Not tested yet but a great alternative (if you have the space) can be a
divers drysuit with the possibility to breath from the inside. Personally I
don't like to use the Steinke hoods.

 

 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3mvFelmuKA>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3mvFelmuKA

 at 3.18 a Steinke hood.

 

Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens swaters at waters-ks.com
Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 16:24
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

 

Is there some form of escape hood or suit that we could use? The navy uses
these

 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment

Maybe something similar?

 

Thanks,

Scott Waters 

 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
From: "Emile van Essen" < <mailto:emile at airesearch.nl> emile at airesearch.nl>
Date: Thu, September 05, 2013 7:03 am
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
< <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Alec, Scott and Greg

 

-I also have dive masks. For exit and also in case of a cable fire.

- If the air horn is of the type with a compressed gas canister, I regard it
as dangerous. The gas is often flammable (and if not : toxic)! You can
operate an air horn with mid-pressure air from the sub.

- An old style BCD jacket with own small bottle an additional dive mask
(picture)  combines a life jacket with a escape hood.

-If your LSS is okay for 72 Hours, bring also drinking water , food, playing
cards and whiskey..

 

Regards, Emile

 


  _____  


Van: Personal_Submersibles [
<mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Smyth, Alec
Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 15:08
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

 

Some ideas.

 

-          Flashlight

-          Radio 

-          Kitchen timers (2)

-          Spare fuses

-          Spare scrubber blower

-          Spare batteries

-          Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it's a Coast Guard
requirement and you want them happy)

 

I've seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher
used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda.
The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion.
I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries.
I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you
have a hotel battery inside.

 

Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and
what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled
Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don't need to go in the
sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day. 

 

 

Best,

 

Alec

 

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [
<mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of
<mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com> swaters at waters-ks.com
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AM
To: psubs
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

 

I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I
currently have

*Needle nose pliers

*Crescent Wrench

*Screwdriver

*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)

*2 life jackets 

*Fire Extinguisher

*Spare air

*Extra sodasorb

 

With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary? 

 

Thanks,

Scott Waters


  _____  


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/a1061d28/attachment-0001.html>

From subvet596 at optonline.net  Thu Sep  5 11:05:12 2013
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 15:05:12 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAGKBKnu60fU2nG3st/k8OiwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <20130905072341.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6ceefb9111.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAGKBKnu60fU2nG3st/k8OiwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <591565074-1378393513-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-255305566-@b3.c7.bise6.blackberry>

Hi all:

If escape under pressure becomes necessary you need to exhale all the way up. It is an interesting experience.

John K.
(203) 414-1000
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Emile van Essen <emile at airesearch.nl>
Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 16:45:28 
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  5 11:33:06 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 08:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <20130905072341.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6ceefb9111.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20130905072341.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6ceefb9111.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1378395186.61171.YahooMailNeo@web121905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
?
The problem we would have is trying to get out through the hatch with such a bulky device. 
The hatch opening on my sub is only 18" so its pretty tight. That's one of the reasons I like the inflatable PFD.
?
Greg
?
?


________________________________
From: "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub



Is there some form of escape hood or suit that we could use? The navy uses these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment
Maybe something similar?

Thanks,
Scott Waters?

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
>Date: Thu, September 05, 2013 7:03 am
>To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Alec, Scott and Greg
>?
>-I also have dive masks. For exit and also in case of a cable fire.
>- If the air horn is of the type with a compressed gas canister, I regard it as dangerous. The gas is often flammable (and if not : toxic)! You can operate an air horn with mid-pressure air from the sub.
>- An old style BCD jacket with own small bottle an additional dive mask ?(picture) ?combines a life jacket with a escape hood.
>-If your LSS is okay for 72 Hours, bring also drinking water , food, playing cards and whiskey..
>?
>Regards, Emile
>?
>
>________________________________
>
>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Smyth, Alec
>Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 15:08
>Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>?
>Some ideas?
>?
>-???????? Flashlight
>-???????? Radio 
>-???????? Kitchen timers (2)
>-???????? Spare fuses
>-???????? Spare scrubber blower
>-???????? Spare batteries
>-???????? Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it?s a Coast Guard requirement and you want them happy)
>?
>I?ve seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda. The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion. I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries. I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you have a hotel battery inside.
>?
>Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don?t need to go in the sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day. 
>?
>?
>Best,
>?
>Alec
>?
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com
>Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AM
>To: psubs
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>?
>I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I currently have
>*Needle nose pliers
>*Crescent Wrench
>*Screwdriver
>*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)
>*2 life jackets 
>*Fire Extinguisher
>*Spare air
>*Extra sodasorb
>?
>With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary? 
>?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>________________________________
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/17ff41cb/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  5 11:39:31 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 08:39:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emiles sub
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAGKBKnu60fU2nG3st/k8OiwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <20130905072341.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6ceefb9111.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAGKBKnu60fU2nG3st/k8OiwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <1378395571.62040.YahooMailNeo@web121903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

?
Hi Emile,
?
Just wanted to let you know that I watched the videos you posted of your newest sub and it is a real work of art. Just beautiful. 
?
Greg
?
?
?


________________________________
From: Emile van Essen <emile at airesearch.nl>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub



Scott,
?
I your coast guard demands a approver life vest; there are very compact ones that can be inflated but jerking a trigger. (not inside the sub?)
The military sub escape suits might be too expensive unless you can purchase one over the expiry date.
Not tested yet but a great alternative (if you have the space) can be a divers drysuit with the possibility to breath from the inside. Personally I don?t like to use the Steinke hoods.
?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3mvFelmuKA
?at 3.18 a Steinke hood.
?
Emile
?

________________________________

Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters at waters-ks.com
Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 16:24
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
?
Is there some form of escape hood or suit that we could use? The navy uses these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment
Maybe something similar?
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
>Date: Thu, September 05, 2013 7:03 am
>To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Alec, Scott and Greg
>?
>-I also have dive masks. For exit and also in case of a cable fire.
>- If the air horn is of the type with a compressed gas canister, I regard it as dangerous. The gas is often flammable (and if not : toxic)! You can operate an air horn with mid-pressure air from the sub.
>- An old style BCD jacket with own small bottle an additional dive mask ?(picture) ?combines a life jacket with a escape hood.
>-If your LSS is okay for 72 Hours, bring also drinking water , food, playing cards and whiskey..
>?
>Regards, Emile
>?
>
>________________________________
>
>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Smyth, Alec
>Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 15:08
>Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>?
>Some ideas?
>?
>-????????? Flashlight
>-????????? Radio 
>-????????? Kitchen timers (2)
>-????????? Spare fuses
>-????????? Spare scrubber blower
>-????????? Spare batteries
>-????????? Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it?s a Coast Guard requirement and you want them happy)
>?
>I?ve seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda. The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion. I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries. I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you have a hotel battery inside.
>?
>Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don?t need to go in the sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day. 
>?
>?
>Best,
>?
>Alec
>?
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com
>Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AM
>To: psubs
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>?
>I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I currently have
>*Needle nose pliers
>*Crescent Wrench
>*Screwdriver
>*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)
>*2 life jackets 
>*Fire Extinguisher
>*Spare air
>*Extra sodasorb
>?
>With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary? 
>?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>________________________________
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/3a74d64a/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 12:19:25 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <fssopdaimv9cla3ou82nhawi.1378397893222@email.android.com>

Yea. I understand that. Is escaping in a bubble hood or escaping with a pony tank and scuba mask better? I worry about lung overexpansion with the pony tank.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonegreg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:Scott,
?
The problem we would have is trying to get out through the hatch with such a bulky device.
The hatch opening on my sub is only 18" so its pretty tight. That's one of the reasons I like the inflatable PFD.
?
Greg
?
?

From: "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub

Is there some form of escape hood or suit that we could use? The navy uses these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment
Maybe something similar?
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
Date: Thu, September 05, 2013 7:03 am
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Alec, Scott and Greg
?
-I also have dive masks. For exit and also in case of a cable fire.
- If the air horn is of the type with a compressed gas canister, I regard it as dangerous. The gas is often flammable (and if not : toxic)! You can operate an air horn with mid-pressure air from the sub.
- An old style BCD jacket with own small bottle an additional dive mask ?(picture) ?combines a life jacket with a escape hood.
-If your LSS is okay for 72 Hours, bring also drinking water , food, playing cards and whiskey..
?
Regards, Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Smyth, Alec
Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 15:08
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
?
Some ideas?
?
-???????? Flashlight
-???????? Radio 
-???????? Kitchen timers (2)
-???????? Spare fuses
-???????? Spare scrubber blower
-???????? Spare batteries
-???????? Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it?s a Coast Guard requirement and you want them happy)
?
I?ve seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda. The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion. I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries. I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you have a hotel battery inside.
?
Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don?t need to go in the sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day.
?
?
Best,
?
Alec
?
?
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AM
To: psubs
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
?
I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I currently have
*Needle nose pliers
*Crescent Wrench
*Screwdriver
*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)
*2 life jackets
*Fire Extinguisher
*Spare air
*Extra sodasorb
?
With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary?
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/b016474f/attachment-0001.html>

From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Thu Sep  5 12:41:10 2013
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (brian)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 16:41:10 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <201309050941760.SM06628@[66.162.33.185]>

I've been looking at this product as an additional distress device. Which is not a pyrotecnic.http://www.odeoflares.com/
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: "swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com>
Sent 9/5/2013 9:19:25 AM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a subYea. I understand that. Is escaping in a bubble hood or escaping with a pony tank and scuba mask better? I worry about lung overexpansion with the pony tank.Thanks,Scott WatersSent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:Scott,?The problem we would have is trying to get out through the hatch with such a bulky device. The hatch opening on my sub is only 18" so its pretty tight. That's one of the reasons I like the inflatable PFD.?Greg??From: "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:23 AMSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a subIs there some form of escape hood or suit that we could use? The navy uses thesehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_EquipmentMaybe something similar??Thanks,Scott Waters??-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
Date: Thu, September 05, 2013 7:03 am
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper v\00003a*  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper o\00003a*  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper w\00003a*  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper .yiv7550646349shape  {}

#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper a:link  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv7550646349MSOHYPERLINK  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper a:visited  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv7550646349MSOHYPERLINKFOLLOWED  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper p.yiv7550646349MSOLISTPARAGRAPH  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper li.yiv7550646349MSOLISTPARAGRAPH  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper div.yiv7550646349MSOLISTPARAGRAPH  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper   _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Wingdings;panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Verdana;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper  #yiv7550646349 p.yiv7550646349MsoNormal, #yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper li.yiv7550646349MsoNormal, #yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper div.yiv7550646349MsoNormal  {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper a:link, #yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv7550646349MsoHyperlink  {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper a:visited, #yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv7550646349MsoHyperlinkFollowed  {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper p.yiv7550646349msolistparagraph, #yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper li.yiv7550646349msolistparagraph, #yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper div.yiv7550646349msolistparagraph  {margin-top:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv7550646349E-mailStijl18  {font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv7550646349E-mailStijl19  {font-family:Arial;color:navy;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper div.yiv7550646349Section1  {}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper   _filtered #yiv7550646349 {}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Calibri;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:"Courier New";}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Wingdings;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Symbol;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:"Courier New";}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Wingdings;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Symbol;}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:"Courier New";}
#yiv7550646349  _filtered #yiv7550646349 {font-family:Wingdings;}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper ol  {margin-bottom:0cm;}
#yiv7550646349 #yiv7550646349wmQuoteWrapper ul  {margin-bottom:0cm;}
Alec, Scott and Greg?-I also have dive masks. For exit and also in case of a cable fire.- If the air horn is of the type with a compressed gas canister, I regard it as dangerous. The gas is often flammable (and if not : toxic)! You can operate an air horn with mid-pressure air from the sub.- An old style BCD jacket with own small bottle an additional dive mask ?(picture) ?combines a life jacket with a escape hood.-If your LSS is okay for 72 Hours, bring also drinking water , food, playing cards and whiskey..?Regards, Emile?Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Smyth, AlecVerzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 15:08Aan: Personal Submersibles General DiscussionOnderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub?Some ideas??-???????? Flashlight-???????? Radio -???????? Kitchen timers (2)-???????? Spare fuses-???????? Spare scrubber blower-???????? Spare batteries-???????? Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it?s a Coast Guard requirement and you want them happy)?I?ve seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda. The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion. I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries. I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you have a hotel battery inside.?Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don?t need to go in the sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day. ??Best,?Alec??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.comSent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AMTo: psubsSubject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub?I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I currently have*Needle nose pliers*Crescent Wrench*Screwdriver*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)*2 life jackets *Fire Extinguisher*Spare air*Extra sodasorb?With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary? ?Thanks,Scott Waters
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/ca9ad286/attachment-0001.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Thu Sep  5 13:34:03 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 13:34:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
Message-ID: <84131.42bfd803.3f5a1a8b@aol.com>

Hi Marc,
 
I think the premise is that for a given power input, a larger  diameter 
prop is going to result in a lower RPM, not that there is an  inherent 
advantage in lower RPM within the scope of the question.  Perhaps  not everyone was 
seeing it that way until you brought it up.
 
As you alluded, it also begs the questions of what range of power input and 
 what range of RPM are we talking about.  That is, what do the curves  on 
the graph look like throughout those ranges.  I suspect the curve and  slope 
are going to look somewhat different at the upper and lower ranges than  
they do in the mid-range.  
 
I really had not given enough thought to the difference a sleek hull vs a  
higher drag hull interjects into prop characteristics and choice.  And I  
probably won't bother to get too deeply into that level of sophistication at  
least until the vessel has a number of dives in its log.  The last 5% of  
perfection gets awfully expensive.  However you're sure to hear from me  
before I lay the money down on the main prop and motor.
 
Best regards,
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/5/2013 7:42:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
piolenc at archivale.com writes:

It's not  the low speed, but the large diameter of the propeller that 
gives better  STATIC thrust per horsepower. The advantage of a larger 
prop is less under  cruise conditions where the mass flow through the 
propeller is larger due  to forward motion and it has only the drag of 
the sub to overcome. In  fact, you really need to go through detailed 
calculation to make sure that  a larger propeller is really of any use in 
your application.

Low  rotation speed is NOT an advantage, though it may be dictated by the  
propulsion machinery. Low speed, high torque propeller drive gives high  
swirl loss in the wake, while higher speed and lower torque minimize  swirl.

Best,
Marc de Piolenc

On 9/5/2013 8:20 PM, greg  cottrell wrote:

> I was standing in Frank Busby's kitchen one day  many years ago
> discussing this same question.  He had returned  from Finland on a
> mission to carefully document two deep diving subs  being built there for
> the Soviets  (Finland agreed under threat  of economic sanctions to allow
> the inspection). The two subs in  question had very large stern props
> driven by hydraulics that turned  very slowly. They were later named Mir
> 1 & 2. Frank compared the  concept to ice breaking ships that use huge
> props that turn very  slowly. It's quite efficient because there is
> little energy wasted on  turbulence and cavitation.
> Also, in the realm of human powered subs,  the winners have all had large
> diameter low aspect ratio props that  look for like aircraft props.
> But there are trade offs- gear reduction  will use a little power. Belt
> reduction a little less. There is more  drag on a big prop when it is not
> turning (unless you feather  it).Fouling a big prop is  more likely
> unless you put it in a big  cage. But if the goal is lower shaft speed
> then it can be a good way  to go.
> Greg
>
> *From:* hank pronk  <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General  Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:*  Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:58 PM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop  size
>
>
> I have a two part question,
> Is it  beneficial to increase my propeller size to increase efficiency.
> I was  under the impression from my boating days that a large slow prop
> is  more fuel efficient.  It should increase battery range and slow  down
> the shaft speed, helping the seal.
> I have a much larger  prop left over from boating and I am thinking of
> using it on  Gamma
> The next question is,,, is there anyone here with the ability  to
> calculate the new rpm for my given prop size and motor hp.
>  Hank
> *From:* Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
> *To:* Personal  Submersibles General Discussion
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September  4, 2013 6:18:15 AM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] There's gold in  them-thar waters
>
>
>  
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/03/florida-family-gold/2757357/
>  _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org  <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org  <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

--  
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog:  http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile):  http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile):  http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans:  http://massflow.archivale.com/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/c6aa96dd/attachment.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  5 13:48:49 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 10:48:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <fssopdaimv9cla3ou82nhawi.1378397893222@email.android.com>
References: <fssopdaimv9cla3ou82nhawi.1378397893222@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1378403329.25582.YahooMailNeo@web121905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

?
Luckily I've never had to try- but I imagine that wearing a mask and pushing the pony tank out ahead of me in one hand would be pretty easy. As far as lung over expansion goes, it would be the same as any other dive on scuba- just keep your airways open. You may not have to inhale at all- but i want a bottle of air any way!!!!
?
Take your time and humm a happy tune on the way up.
?
Greg
?
?


________________________________
From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub



Yea. I understand that. Is escaping in a bubble hood or escaping with a pony tank and scuba mask better? I worry about lung overexpansion with the pony tank.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott,
?
The problem we would have is trying to get out through the hatch with such a bulky device. 
The hatch opening on my sub is only 18" so its pretty tight. That's one of the reasons I like the inflatable PFD.
?
Greg
?
?


________________________________
From: "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub



Is there some form of escape hood or suit that we could use? The navy uses these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment
Maybe something similar?

Thanks,
Scott Waters?

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
>Date: Thu, September 05, 2013 7:03 am
>To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Alec, Scott and Greg
>?
>-I also have dive masks. For exit and also in case of a cable fire.
>- If the air horn is of the type with a compressed gas canister, I regard it as dangerous. The gas is often flammable (and if not : toxic)! You can operate an air horn with mid-pressure air from the sub.
>- An old style BCD jacket with own small bottle an additional dive mask ?(picture) ?combines a life jacket with a escape hood.
>-If your LSS is okay for 72 Hours, bring also drinking water , food, playing cards and whiskey..
>?
>Regards, Emile
>?
>
>________________________________
>
>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Smyth, Alec
>Verzonden: donderdag 5 september 2013 15:08
>Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>?
>Some ideas?
>?
>-???????? Flashlight
>-???????? Radio 
>-???????? Kitchen timers (2)
>-???????? Spare fuses
>-???????? Spare scrubber blower
>-???????? Spare batteries
>-???????? Tiny air horn (probably useless, but it?s a Coast Guard requirement and you want them happy)
>?
>I?ve seen a lot of people put dive masks in their subs too. Gary Boucher used to take along a jar with a rag in a saturated solution of baking soda. The alkaline rag was for wiping down skin in the case of battery explosion. I carried that too originally, but dropped it when I went to AGM batteries. I know a K350 has batteries outside the cabin, but I mention it in case you have a hotel battery inside.
>?
>Once you have your list, decide what actually needs to go in the sub and what can stay on the boat. I use two big plastic storage boxes, one labeled Surface and the other Sub. Items like the detergent don?t need to go in the sub, you just put that stuff on at the start of the day. 
>?
>?
>Best,
>?
>Alec
>?
>?
>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com
>Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:23 AM
>To: psubs
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
>?
>I am putting together a tool box and safety extras in my sub. Here is what I currently have
>*Needle nose pliers
>*Crescent Wrench
>*Screwdriver
>*Joy dish soap (for anti-fog on veiwports)
>*2 life jackets 
>*Fire Extinguisher
>*Spare air
>*Extra sodasorb
>?
>With respect to lack of space in a submarine, what else is necessary? 
>?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>________________________________
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/d67d8eda/attachment-0001.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Thu Sep  5 13:53:22 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 13:53:22 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
In-Reply-To: <1378403329.25582.YahooMailNeo@web121905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <fssopdaimv9cla3ou82nhawi.1378397893222@email.android.com>
 <1378403329.25582.YahooMailNeo@web121905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5228C512.9090403@psubs.org>


Remember to stow everything safely and securely until you need it.


From Alec.Smyth at covisint.com  Thu Sep  5 14:50:16 2013
From: Alec.Smyth at covisint.com (Smyth, Alec)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 18:50:16 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cyclops
Message-ID: <fb3c78523c144174a9188e37f93aadce@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Now here's a cool idea. Look carefully at what the seats do in this animation.

http://vimeo.com/72827065


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/75b037b1/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 15:05:04 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 12:05:04 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tools and safety in a sub
Message-ID: <20130905120504.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.23550487b1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/c0bbbe9b/attachment.html>

From jumachine at comcast.net  Thu Sep  5 18:14:29 2013
From: jumachine at comcast.net (Dan H.)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 18:14:29 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
References: <20130905065716.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.98900f22df.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <00a601ceaa85$4b92fea0$7b01a8c0@hryhorcoff2>

Scott

In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a flat disk) Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.  (A hole to accept the lathe center)  Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double sided tape.

Mount another chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.  Face it true and cover it's face with double sided tape also.  

Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank.  

With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.  Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.  

Dan H.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: swaters at waters-ks.com 
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


  Vance,
  I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the "O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters 

    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
    From: vbra676539 at aol.com
    Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
    To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org

    I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well. 


    I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.


    Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.


    To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port  so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.


    A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.


    As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.


    If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.


    Vance



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
    To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
    Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


    I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport.  A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on a conical viewport.  The shape of the cone and the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.  If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.  It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.

    Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.  If it works for Vance then it should work for you.

    Dan H.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: hank pronk 
      To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
      Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
      Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


      Dan,
      are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
      Hank

      From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
      To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
      Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
      Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems



      I used sealant in the rest of the viewports.  

      I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens.  I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I simply went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports....   Glue them in with sealant!!! 

      Dan H.
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: swaters 
        To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
        Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
        Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


        Dan,
         Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
        Thanks,
        Scott Waters








        Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

        "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:

        I don't know.  There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.  

        I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.  

        My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.

        Dan H.
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: swaters 
          To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
          Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
          Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


          What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
          Thanks,
          Scott Waters








          Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

          "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:

          Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.  

          Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.  Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.  (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off)  That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge.  Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.  Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think.  When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.  No sealant necessary.

          Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.

          Dan H.
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Jon Wallace 
            To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
            Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
            Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems



            It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.  The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.


            On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:

              Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
              Thanks,
              Scott Waters









------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/be2e49c8/attachment-0001.html>

From piolenc at archivale.com  Thu Sep  5 18:25:55 2013
From: piolenc at archivale.com (Marc de Piolenc)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 06:25:55 +0800
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
In-Reply-To: <84131.42bfd803.3f5a1a8b@aol.com>
References: <84131.42bfd803.3f5a1a8b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <522904F3.6000709@archivale.com>


On 9/6/2013 1:34 AM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Marc,
> I think the premise is that for a /given power input/, a larger diameter
> prop is going to /result/ in a lower RPM, not that there is an inherent
> advantage in lower RPM within the scope of the question.

If the pitch is kept the same, then that's true. Otherwise, up to the 
cavitation limit, speed is an independent variable. And for the reason I 
gave it is advantageous to keep it higher rather than lower. Of course, 
at some point you will encounter diminishing returns, where the power 
saved by reducing swirl is eaten up in additional friction drag.

Calculate, calculate, calculate...

Best,
Marc
-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 18:34:18 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 17:34:18 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
Message-ID: <u168boo9o23t0ru4cm8kdjlm.1378420432109@email.android.com>

Brilliant!
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:Scott
?
In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens.?(a flat disk)?Flip it around?and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.? (A hole to accept the lathe center)? Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover?the faced end?with strips of double sided tape.
?
Mount?another?chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.? Face it true and cover it's face?with double sided tape also.?
?
Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank.?
?
With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.? Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.?
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters at waters-ks.com
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Vance,
I am in the process of installing veiwports.?How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the?"O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
From: vbra676539 at aol.com
Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org

I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the      K-style, it should work there, as well.

I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.

Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.

To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port ?so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.

A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.

As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.

If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.

Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and?I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport.? A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on?a conical viewport.? The shape of the cone and the pressure?on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.? If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.? It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
?
Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.? If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: hank pronk
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Dan,
are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
Hank
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I used sealant in the rest of the viewports.?
?
I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens.? I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I?simply?went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports....?? Glue them in with sealant!!!
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Dan,
?Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
I don't know.? There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.? 
?
I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.?
?
My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.?
?
Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the            cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.??Draw in the lens edge?to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.? (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off)? That's how to determine how much to?machine the?lens edge.? Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.? Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think.? When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.? No sealant necessary.
?
Also you should grease the O-ring and            conical seat before instillation.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Wallace
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.? The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.


On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/e3b3dc68/attachment-0001.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Thu Sep  5 18:48:30 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 18:48:30 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
In-Reply-To: <u168boo9o23t0ru4cm8kdjlm.1378420432109@email.android.com>
References: <u168boo9o23t0ru4cm8kdjlm.1378420432109@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <52290A3E.2000301@psubs.org>


I've always wondered why not just use a flat disc rather than a tapered 
one.  But if you've already created the tapered viewport thru-hull it's 
too late.

Jon


From Vbra676539 at AOL.com  Thu Sep  5 19:16:26 2013
From: Vbra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 19:16:26 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
In-Reply-To: <52290A3E.2000301@psubs.org>
References: <u168boo9o23t0ru4cm8kdjlm.1378420432109@email.android.com>
 <52290A3E.2000301@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <F164C0BC-4C5C-4887-A323-0D91019F8AC1@AOL.com>

Truncated cones are more user friendly and provide a better field of view. They are also better structurally and require a whole lot less framing.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2013, at 6:48 PM, Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:

> 
> I've always wondered why not just use a flat disc rather than a tapered one.  But if you've already created the tapered viewport thru-hull it's too late.
> 
> Jon
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Thu Sep  5 19:58:17 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 19:58:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop size
Message-ID: <77584.7c63786c.3f5a7499@aol.com>

Right; I meant to say all other things remaining the same.  
 
 
In a message dated 9/5/2013 5:26:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
piolenc at archivale.com writes:


On  9/6/2013 1:34 AM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Marc,
> I think  the premise is that for a /given power input/, a larger diameter
> prop  is going to /result/ in a lower RPM, not that there is an inherent
>  advantage in lower RPM within the scope of the question.

If the pitch  is kept the same, then that's true. Otherwise, up to the 
cavitation limit,  speed is an independent variable. And for the reason I 
gave it is  advantageous to keep it higher rather than lower. Of course, 
at some point  you will encounter diminishing returns, where the power 
saved by reducing  swirl is eaten up in additional friction drag.

Calculate, calculate,  calculate...

Best,
Marc
-- 
Archivale catalog:  http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog:  http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile):  http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile):  http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans:  http://massflow.archivale.com/
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/f37cb90c/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep  5 20:27:37 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 19:27:37 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
Message-ID: <4wedbu3uccmqbf80hidlveqi.1378427129325@email.android.com>

So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:Scott
?
In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens.?(a flat disk)?Flip it around?and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.? (A hole to accept the lathe center)? Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover?the faced end?with strips of double sided tape.
?
Mount?another?chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.? Face it true and cover it's face?with double sided tape also.?
?
Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank.?
?
With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.? Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.?
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters at waters-ks.com
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Vance,
I am in the process of installing veiwports.?How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the?"O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
From: vbra676539 at aol.com
Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org

I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the      K-style, it should work there, as well.

I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.

Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.

To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port ?so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.

A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.

As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.

If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.

Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and?I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport.? A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on?a conical viewport.? The shape of the cone and the pressure?on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.? If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.? It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
?
Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.? If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: hank pronk
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Dan,
are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
Hank
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I used sealant in the rest of the viewports.?
?
I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens.? I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I?simply?went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports....?? Glue them in with sealant!!!
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Dan,
?Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
I don't know.? There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.? 
?
I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.?
?
My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.?
?
Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the            cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.??Draw in the lens edge?to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.? (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off)? That's how to determine how much to?machine the?lens edge.? Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.? Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think.? When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.? No sealant necessary.
?
Also you should grease the O-ring and            conical seat before instillation.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Wallace
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.? The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.


On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130905/74142d01/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  6 04:21:13 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 10:21:13 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
In-Reply-To: <4wedbu3uccmqbf80hidlveqi.1378427129325@email.android.com>
References: <4wedbu3uccmqbf80hidlveqi.1378427129325@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <7E69A807-8288-4772-A6E1-C7278568FE89@yahoo.com>

Scott,
Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some
Sub motors. And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.
The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder
that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring
expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale
But they cost an arm & a leg.
Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.
Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.
I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because
It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors
& losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
Regards Alan



Sent from my iPad

On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
> Scott
>  
> In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a flat disk) Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.  (A hole to accept the lathe center)  Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double sided tape.
>  
> Mount another chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.  Face it true and cover it's face with double sided tape also. 
>  
> Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank. 
>  
> With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.  Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it. 
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaters at waters-ks.com
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Vance,
> I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the "O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters 
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> From: vbra676539 at aol.com
> Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> 
> I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.
> 
> Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.
> 
> To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port  so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.
> 
> A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.
> 
> As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.
> 
> If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.
> 
> Vance
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
> To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport.  A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on a conical viewport.  The shape of the cone and the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.  If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.  It's impossible to hold the seat true if you      machine a cone first then weld.
>  
> Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.  If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hank pronk
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Dan,
> are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
> Hank
> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> I used sealant in the rest of the viewports. 
>  
> I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens.  I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I simply went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports....   Glue them in with sealant!!!
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaters
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Dan,
>  Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
> I don't know.  There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport. 
>  
> I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in. 
>  
> My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaters
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
> Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring. 
>  
> Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.  Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.  (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off)  That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge.  Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.  Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think.  When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.  No sealant necessary.
>  
> Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon Wallace
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> 
> It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.  The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
>> Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/098d9d19/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  6 08:02:43 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 05:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
In-Reply-To: <7E69A807-8288-4772-A6E1-C7278568FE89@yahoo.com>
References: <4wedbu3uccmqbf80hidlveqi.1378427129325@email.android.com>
 <7E69A807-8288-4772-A6E1-C7278568FE89@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378468963.36999.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I used WD-40 for a couple of years and although it seemed to do the job it eventually caused the seals and soft tubes to get brittle.

?
Greg

________________________________
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems



Scott,
Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some
Sub motors.?And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.
The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder
that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring
expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale
But they cost an arm & a leg.
Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.
Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.
I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because
It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors
& losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
Regards Alan



Sent from my iPad

On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:


So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Scott
>?
>In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens.?(a flat disk)?Flip it around?and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.? (A hole to accept the lathe center)? Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover?the faced end?with strips of double sided tape.
>
>Mount?another?chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.? Face it true and cover it's face?with double sided tape also.? 
>?
>Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank.? 
>?
>With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.? Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.? 
>?
>Dan H.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: swaters at waters-ks.com 
>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>
>>Vance,
>>I am in the process of installing veiwports.?How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the?"O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters?
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>>From: vbra676539 at aol.com
>>>Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
>>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>>
>>>I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well. 
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.
>>>
>>>
>>>Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.
>>>
>>>
>>>To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port ?so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.
>>>
>>>
>>>A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.
>>>
>>>
>>>As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.
>>>
>>>
>>>If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>Vance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
>>>To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and?I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport.? A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on?a conical viewport.? The shape of the cone and the pressure?on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.? If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.? It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
>>>?
>>>Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.? If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
>>>?
>>>Dan H.
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: hank pronk 
>>>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dan,
>>>>are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
>>>>Hank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>>From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
>>>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I used sealant in the rest of the viewports.? 
>>>>?
>>>>I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens.? I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I?simply?went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports....?? Glue them in with sealant!!! 
>>>>?
>>>>Dan H.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>From: swaters 
>>>>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Dan,
>>>>>?Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Scott Waters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know.? There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.? 
>>>>>?
>>>>>I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.? 
>>>>>?
>>>>>My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
>>>>>?
>>>>>Dan H.
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>From: swaters 
>>>>>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Scott Waters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>>"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.? 
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.??Draw in the lens edge?to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.? (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off)? That's how to determine how much to?machine the?lens edge.? Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.? Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think.? When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.? No sealant necessary.
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.
>>>>>>?
>>>>>>Dan H.
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>From: Jon Wallace 
>>>>>>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.? The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>Scott Waters
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/db13200f/attachment-0001.html>

From brian at subatlantic.com  Fri Sep  6 08:54:06 2013
From: brian at subatlantic.com (Brian V Ryder)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:54:06 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
In-Reply-To: <4wedbu3uccmqbf80hidlveqi.1378427129325@email.android.com>
References: <4wedbu3uccmqbf80hidlveqi.1378427129325@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5229D06E.5000605@subatlantic.com>

just wanted to chime in there is a synthetic mineral oil that is said
to work great but i use standard light mineral oil works as well and a
fraction of the cost all my old thrusters were compensated with a
spring loaded unit on the end of the motor but we still had weeps and
oil leaks but now we are using tecnadyne mag coupled thrusters and
have had no problems at all

i have done some research on mag coupled thrusters there is alot of
info out there and people building their own units


Brian


On 9/5/2013 8:27 PM, swaters wrote:
> So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used
> marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am
> useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery
> oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something? Thanks, 
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Dan H."
> <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:Scott
> 
> In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long
> and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a flat disk)
> Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as
> you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.
> (A hole to accept the lathe center)  Don't go all the way through.
> Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double sided
> tape.
> 
> Mount another chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in
> diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of
> your lathe.  Face it true and cover it's face with double sided
> tape also.
> 
> Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece
> you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and
> crank it up against the other side of the lens blank.
> 
> With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the
> force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper
> you need.  Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.
> 
> Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters at waters-ks.com To:
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013
> 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Vance, I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you
> chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface
> for the "O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on
> the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut. Thanks, 
> Scott Waters
> 
> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
> K-350 blue print problems From: vbra676539 at aol.com Date: Wed, June
> 12, 2013 4:01 pm To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> 
> I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma
> uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame
> with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the
> gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the
> K-style, it should work there, as well.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case,
> but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They
> work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that
> unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too
> soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.
> 
> Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of
> application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If
> you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra
> viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you
> paint.
> 
> To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical
> viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as
> Dan describes, take off the corner of the port  so that your o-ring
> sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your
> retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever).
> No sealant or glue is required for this design.
> 
> A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what
> you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or
> near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating
> surface under pressure.
> 
> As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You
> can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry
> build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the
> primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor
> sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.
> 
> If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque
> modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the
> cylinder being one of them.
> 
> Vance
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net> To:
> personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Wed,
> Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print
> problems
> 
> I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and I don't think you can
> properly gasket a conical viewport.  A rubber O-ring that seals at
> the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on a
> conical viewport.  The shape of the cone and the pressure on the
> big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the
> O-ring.  If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats
> conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses
> and O-ring seals.  It's impossible to hold the seat true if you
> machine a cone first then weld.
> 
> Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.  If it works for
> Vance then it should work for you.
> 
> Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: hank pronk To:
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22
> PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Dan, are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton. Hank 
> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net> To:
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013
> 3:04:27 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> I used sealant in the rest of the viewports.
> 
> I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great
> on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be
> to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the
> lens.  I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I
> simply went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of
> my viewports....   Glue them in with sealant!!!
> 
> Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters To:
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42
> PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Dan, Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal
> the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant? Thanks, Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote: I don't know.  There isn't
> a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.
> 
> I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all
> someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six
> screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access
> to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.
> 
> My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
> 
> Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters To:
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22
> PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work? Thanks, 
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote: Machine the sharp edge off
> the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross
> section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an
> O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.
> 
> Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the            cross section
> groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.
> Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about
> .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.
> (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined
> off)  That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge.
> Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.  Try fan
> O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what
> you think.  When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned
> down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.  No sealant
> necessary.
> 
> Also you should grease the O-ring and            conical seat
> before instillation.
> 
> Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Wallace To:
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24
> PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> 
> It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.  The problem with it
> is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out
> and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new
> ones.
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote: Why did Kitteregde use a
> gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small
> veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to
> apply or did it not hold up well? Thanks, Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org 
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org 
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 


From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Fri Sep  6 08:57:10 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 08:57:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
Message-ID: <ce768.3772aa54.3f5b2b26@aol.com>

Scott,
 
Marvel Mystery oil is 74% mineral oil, 25% stoddard solvent,  and 1%lard.  
All the mineral oil I've found in drugstores contains  fragrance.  If you 
want pure mineral oil you can buy it by the gallon  for about $15 at farm 
supply or veterinary supply stores.
 
Alec has the most simple system I've seen for oil compensated  motors.  
When I saw it I discarded all my other designs  The last  I heard he was using 
MMO because of its lower viscosity instead of mineral  oil. I question how 
long a rubber bladder will hold up with pure  mineral oil.  
 
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/6/2013 7:03:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com writes:

 
I used WD-40 for a couple  of years and although it seemed to do the job it 
eventually caused the seals  and soft tubes to get brittle.


Greg
 
 
 

From: Alan  <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 4:21  AM
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems



 
Scott,
Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics.  It 
was used in some
Sub motors. And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively  quickly, 
these oils / spirits could do in time.
The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded  
cylinder
that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the  
spring
expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen  
them for sale
But they cost an arm & a leg.
Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone  oil.
Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a  
viscosity similar to water.
I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer  
because
It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the  
danger of stuffing your motors
& losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
Regards Alan





Sent from my iPad

On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:




So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used  marvel 
mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing  rubber 
for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a  solvent. 
Should I use mineral oil or something?
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular?  Smartphone


"Dan H." <_jumachine at comcast.net_ (mailto:jumachine at comcast.net) >  wrote:
Scott
 
In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock  about 1/2 inch long and a 
little under the small diameter of your  lens. (a flat disk) Flip it around 
and drill a center hole in  it with a center drill as you would in the end of 
a long shaft you want to  turn in the lathe.  (A hole to accept the lathe 
center)  Don't go  all the way through. Take it out and cover the faced end 
with  strips of double sided tape.
 
Mount another chunk of round stock,  just a little smaller in diameter then 
the larger diameter of the viewport  in the chuck of your lathe.  Face it 
true and cover it's face with  double sided tape also.  
 
Center up and stick on your lens blank then  take the smaller piece you 
already prepared, hold it up against the tail  stock center and crank it up 
against the other side of the lens blank.   

With the lens taped to the drive plate and held  in place with the force of 
the tail stock, you should be able to machine the  taper you need.  Of 
course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on  it.  
 
Dan H.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: _swaters at waters-ks.com_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com)  
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013  9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350  blue print problems


Vance,
I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up  the 
conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for  the "O" ring? Can't 
seem to figure out how to make it work on the  lathe and have access to the 
edge that I need to cut.
Thanks,
Scott Waters 
 

-------- Original Message  --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print  problems
From: _vbra676539 at aol.com_ (mailto:vbra676539 at aol.com) 
Date: Wed,  June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 

I haven't tried the Nekton  style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a 
cork/neoprene blended  gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade 
gasket cement,  but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the 
compression  is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well.  


I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case,  but 
12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work.  Do not use 
straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued  urethane gaskets fall 
into the same category. They are too soft and will  extrude to the low 
pressure side.


Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of  application. It 
works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're  going to do it, then 
just go ahead and build some extra viewports.  You'll need them for 
replacements the next time you paint.


To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from  you again) conical 
viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport  frame, and as Dan describes, 
take off the corner of the port  so  that your o-ring sits in a square (in 
cross section) groove. Compression  from your retaining ring will complete the 
form and it will not leak  (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this 
design.


A well painted frame greased with oxygen  compatible grease is what you 
want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep  blue sea out on or near the surface, 
but the acrylic self-seals against  the mating surface under pressure.


As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan  is also right. You can't 
get there from here without machining after  welding. Perry build their 
conning towers as bolt on units, and that was  the primary reason. A conning tower 
can be handled on regular floor  sized machine tools. An entire submarine 
normally can not.


If I was building  another K, it would have some very-Perryesque 
modifications--a bolt on  conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of  
them.



Vance


-----Original  Message-----
From: Dan H. <_jumachine at comcast.net_ (mailto:jumachine at comcast.net) >
To:  personal_submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
Sent:  Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue  print problems


 
I'd prefer to have all conical viewports  and I don't think you can 
properly gasket a conical viewport.   A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where 
the lens meets the seat is  as good as it gets on a conical viewport.  The 
shape of the  cone and the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll 
 never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.  If it wasn't so difficult  to 
machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would  have used 
all conical lenses and O-ring seals.  It's impossible to  hold the seat true 
if you machine a cone first then weld.
 
Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good  too.  If it works for Vance then 
it should work for  you.
 
Dan H.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: _hank pronk_ (mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca)  
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013  5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]  K-350 blue print problems



Dan,
are you against gaskets like Vance has on the  Necton.
Hank


 
 

From:  Dan H. <_jumachine at comcast.net_ (mailto:jumachine at comcast.net) >
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent: Wednesday,  June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]  K-350 blue print problems



 
I used sealant in the rest of the  viewports.  
 
I was concerned that the coefficient of  expansion would be to great on the 
15 inch viewport so that in really  cold water there may be to big of a gap 
and possibly extrude the  O-ring in along side the lens.  I know it could 
be a problem with  the sealant also but I simply went with seemed to work for 
 others on the all the rest of my viewports....   Glue them  in with 
sealant!!! 
 
Dan H.

-----  Original Message ----- 
From:  _swaters_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com)  
To:  _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent:  Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


Dan,
 Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you  seal the 8 inch 
veiw ports with sealant?
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S.  Cellular? Smartphone


"Dan H." <_jumachine at comcast.net_ (mailto:jumachine at comcast.net) >  wrote:
I don't know.  There isn't a lot  of room for sealant in a conical 
viewport.  
 
I like the fact that if I were to be  incapacitated in the sub, all someone 
would have to do to get access  to me is remove the six screws on the lens 
holder and easily pop the  lens out to get access to the interior of the sub 
when it's not  glued in.  
 
My hatch latches from inside only, as  the K-350 plans show.
 
Dan H.

-----  Original Message ----- 
From:  _swaters_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com)  
To:  _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent:  Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that  work?
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my  U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


"Dan H." <_jumachine at comcast.net_ (mailto:jumachine at comcast.net) >  wrote:
Machine the sharp edge off the top  side of the viewport lens so it creates 
a triangular cross section  groove when installed in the conical seat and 
install an O-ring  before bolting down the lens retaining ring.  
 
Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of  the cross section groove area with any 
standard cross section  O-ring of your choice.  Draw in the lens edge to  
create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all  three sides 
of the triangular gland.  (seat, lens retainer  and lens edge when the sharp 
part is machined off)  That's  how to determine how much to machine the 
lens  edge.  Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the  O-ring.  Try fan 
O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a  little less and see what you think.  
When you get the O-ring  cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring 
of a diameter  that will fit.  No sealant necessary.
 
Also you should grease the O-ring and  conical seat before instillation.
 
Dan H.

-----  Original Message ----- 
From:  _Jon  Wallace_ (mailto:jonw at psubs.org)  
To:  _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent:  Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems



It was sikaflex all  the way around on the 600.  The problem with it is 
that you  really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at  least 
the way I removed them, I would only put back new  ones.


On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:


Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big  veiwport and not 
on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing  the silicone suck? Was it 
hard to apply or did it not hold up  well?
Thanks,
Scott  Waters























_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/4305b603/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Sep  6 08:57:22 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 07:57:22 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
Message-ID: <8qohgt0m7ywik8dmukem0af6.1378472076723@email.android.com>

Would any non-detergent low viscosity oil work? I feel like marvel mystery oil didn't work because it has solvent in it. I was thinking about mineral oil or maybe fresh water with antifreeze. All it has to do is create a barrier between salt water and the gauges via the compensating bladder.?
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:Scott,
Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some
Sub motors.?And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.
The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder
that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring
expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale
But they cost an arm & a leg.
Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.
Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.
I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because
It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors
& losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
Regards Alan



Sent from my iPad

On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
Scott
?
In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens.?(a flat disk)?Flip it around?and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.? (A hole to accept the lathe center)? Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover?the faced end?with strips of double sided tape.
?
Mount?another?chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.? Face it true and cover it's face?with double sided tape also.?
?
Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center  and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank.?
?
With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.? Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.?
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters at waters-ks.com
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57    AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Vance,
I am in the process of installing veiwports.?How do you chuck up the    conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the?"O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:      [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
From: vbra676539 at aol.com
Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org

I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well.

I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.

Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.

To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this      design.

A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.

As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can      not.

If I was building another K, it      would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.

Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To:      personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and?I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport. A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as      good as it gets on?a conical viewport. The shape of the cone and the pressure?on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.? If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.? It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
?
Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.? If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: hank pronk
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22        PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350        blue print problems

Dan,
are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
Hank
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I used sealant in the rest of the viewports.?
?
I was concerned that the coefficient of        expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold        water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in        along side the lens.? I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I?simply?went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports.... Glue them in with sealant!!!
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Dan,
?Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
I don't know. There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.
?
I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.
?
My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.
?
Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice. Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland. (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off) That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge. Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring. Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think. When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit. No sealant necessary.
?
Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Wallace
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600. The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.


On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/5ac185a5/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Sep  6 09:03:46 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 06:03:46 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
Message-ID: <20130906060346.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f853c23e09.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/793dad91/attachment-0001.html>

From brian at subatlantic.com  Fri Sep  6 09:38:11 2013
From: brian at subatlantic.com (Brian V Ryder)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 09:38:11 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
In-Reply-To: <8qohgt0m7ywik8dmukem0af6.1378472076723@email.android.com>
References: <8qohgt0m7ywik8dmukem0af6.1378472076723@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5229DAC3.2010701@subatlantic.com>

old compasses and gauges were filled with denatured alcohol


On 9/6/2013 8:57 AM, swaters wrote:
> Would any non-detergent low viscosity oil work? I feel like marvel mystery oil didn't work because it has solvent in it. I was thinking about mineral oil or maybe fresh water with antifreeze. All it has to do is create a barrier between salt water and the gauges via the compensating bladder. 
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:Scott,
> Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
> I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some
> Sub motors. And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.
> The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder
> that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring
> expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale
> But they cost an arm & a leg.
> Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.
> Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.
> I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because
> It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors
> & losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
> Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
> Regards Alan
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
> Scott
>  
> In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a flat disk) Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.  (A hole to accept the lathe center)  Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double sided tape.
>  
> Mount another chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.  Face it true and cover it's face with double sided tape also. 
>  
> Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center  and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank. 
>  
> With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.  Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it. 
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaters at waters-ks.com
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57    AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Vance,
> I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up the    conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the "O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters 
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re:      [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> From: vbra676539 at aol.com
> Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> 
> I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.
> 
> Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.
> 
> To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this      design.
> 
> A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.
> 
> As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can      not.
> 
> If I was building another K, it      would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.
> 
> Vance
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
> To:      personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport. A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as      good as it gets on a conical viewport. The shape of the cone and the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.  If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.  It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
>  
> Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.  If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hank pronk
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22        PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350        blue print problems
> 
> Dan,
> are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
> Hank
> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> I used sealant in the rest of the viewports. 
>  
> I was concerned that the coefficient of        expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold        water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in        along side the lens.  I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I simply went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports.... Glue them in with sealant!!!
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaters
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Dan,
>  Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
> I don't know. There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.
>  
> I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.
>  
> My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: swaters
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
> Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.
>  
> Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice. Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland. (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off) That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge. Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring. Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think. When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit. No sealant necessary.
>  
> Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.
>  
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon Wallace
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM


> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> 
> It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600. The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
> Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 


From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Fri Sep  6 10:23:49 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 10:23:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D modeling by gesture
Message-ID: <d076d.28e3389d.3f5b3f74@aol.com>

The next step in 3D CAD with Elon Musk of SpaceX.
-Jim
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNqs_S-zEBY
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/8e7c7404/attachment.html>

From brian at subatlantic.com  Fri Sep  6 11:32:37 2013
From: brian at subatlantic.com (Brian V Ryder)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 11:32:37 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
In-Reply-To: <ce768.3772aa54.3f5b2b26@aol.com>
References: <ce768.3772aa54.3f5b2b26@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1C0CDC51-23E5-4B8F-987E-BF2000C2E104@subatlantic.com>

Just an FYI I use mineral oil in everything including hydralek hydraulic skid and it has a rubber bladder external for compensation she's been working full time for four years without any problems I buy it by the 5 gallon pails at McMaster Carr they have two grades one is very thin witch is what I use in all the Rov motors 
Brian

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 6, 2013, at 8:57 AM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:

> Scott,
>  
> Marvel Mystery oil is 74% mineral oil, 25% stoddard solvent, and 1%lard.  All the mineral oil I've found in drugstores contains fragrance.  If you want pure mineral oil you can buy it by the gallon  for about $15 at farm supply or veterinary supply stores.
>  
> Alec has the most simple system I've seen for oil compensated motors.  When I saw it I discarded all my other designs  The last I heard he was using MMO because of its lower viscosity instead of mineral oil. I question how long a rubber bladder will hold up with pure mineral oil.  
>  
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 9/6/2013 7:03:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com writes:
> I used WD-40 for a couple of years and although it seemed to do the job it eventually caused the seals and soft tubes to get brittle.
>  
> Greg
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 4:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
> 
> Scott,
> Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
> I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some
> Sub motors. And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.
> The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder
> that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring
> expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale
> But they cost an arm & a leg.
> Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.
> Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.
> I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because
> It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors
> & losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
> Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
> Regards Alan
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>> So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Scott
>>  
>> In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a flat disk) Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.  (A hole to accept the lathe center)  Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double sided tape.
>>  
>> Mount another chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.  Face it true and cover it's face with double sided tape also. 
>>  
>> Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank. 
>>  
>> With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.  Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it. 
>>  
>> Dan H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: swaters at waters-ks.com
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> Vance,
>> I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the "O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters 
>>  
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> From: vbra676539 at aol.com
>> Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> 
>> I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well.
>> 
>> I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.
>> 
>> Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.
>> 
>> To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port  so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.
>> 
>> A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.
>> 
>> As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.
>> 
>> If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.
>> 
>> Vance
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
>> To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport.  A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on a conical viewport.  The shape of the cone and the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.  If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.  It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
>>  
>> Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.  If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
>>  
>> Dan H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: hank pronk
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> Dan,
>> are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
>> Hank
>> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> I used sealant in the rest of the viewports. 
>>  
>> I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens.  I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I simply went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports....   Glue them in with sealant!!!
>>  
>> Dan H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: swaters
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> Dan,
>>  Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>> I don't know.  There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport. 
>>  
>> I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in. 
>>  
>> My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
>>  
>> Dan H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: swaters
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring. 
>>  
>> Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.  Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.  (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off)  That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge.  Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.  Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think.  When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.  No sealant necessary.
>>  
>> Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.
>>  
>> Dan H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jon Wallace
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> 
>> It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.  The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
>>> Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/091fdd29/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Sep  6 13:51:03 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:51:03 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
Message-ID: <20130906105103.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.50231b20da.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/16c4327c/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  6 17:27:27 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 23:27:27 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
In-Reply-To: <20130906105103.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.50231b20da.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20130906105103.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.50231b20da.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <9B10F154-F957-40AE-AE1E-4310E75E8206@yahoo.com>

Scott,
As Jim said, be careful of the scented baby oil ( mineral oil ) you buy in the supermarkets.
I compensated AGM batteries with it & there was excessive off gassing from the batteries
Which didn't occur when I changed to pure mineral oil.
Regards Alan


Sent from my iPad

On 6/09/2013, at 7:51 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Thanks, I think I will do mineral oil. If it eats the rubber I think I will try to get a different kind of rubber.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters 
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
> From: Brian V Ryder <brian at subatlantic.com>
> Date: Fri, September 06, 2013 8:32 am
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> Just an FYI I use mineral oil in everything including hydralek hydraulic skid and it has a rubber bladder external for compensation she's been working full time for four years without any problems I buy it by the 5 gallon pails at McMaster Carr they have two grades one is very thin witch is what I use in all the Rov motors 
> Brian
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 8:57 AM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Scott,
>>  
>> Marvel Mystery oil is 74% mineral oil, 25% stoddard solvent, and 1%lard.  All the mineral oil I've found in drugstores contains fragrance.  If you want pure mineral oil you can buy it by the gallon for about $15 at farm supply or veterinary supply stores.
>>  
>> Alec has the most simple system I've seen for oil compensated motors.  When I saw it I discarded all my other designs  The last I heard he was using MMO because of its lower viscosity instead of mineral oil. I question how long a rubber bladder will hold up with pure mineral oil.  
>>  
>> Jim
>>  
>> In a message dated 9/6/2013 7:03:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com writes:
>> I used WD-40 for a couple of years and although it seemed to do the job it eventually caused the seals and soft tubes to get brittle.
>>  
>> Greg
>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 4:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>> 
>> Scott,
>> Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
>> I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some
>> Sub motors. And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.
>> The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder
>> that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring
>> expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale
>> But they cost an arm & a leg.
>> Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.
>> Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.
>> I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because
>> It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors
>> & losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
>> Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
>> Regards Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>> 
>>> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Scott
>>>  
>>> In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a flat disk) Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe.  (A hole to accept the lathe center)  Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double sided tape.
>>>  
>>> Mount another chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe.  Face it true and cover it's face with double sided tape also. 
>>>  
>>> Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank. 
>>>  
>>> With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need.  Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it. 
>>>  
>>> Dan H.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: swaters at waters-ks.com
>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> 
>>> Vance,
>>> I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the "O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters 
>>>  
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> From: vbra676539 at aol.com
>>> Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> 
>>> I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well.
>>> 
>>> I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.
>>> 
>>> Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.
>>> 
>>> To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port  so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.
>>> 
>>> A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.
>>> 
>>> As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.
>>> 
>>> If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.
>>> 
>>> Vance
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
>>> To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> 
>>> I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport.  A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on a conical viewport.  The shape of the cone and the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring.  If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals.  It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
>>>  
>>> Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too.  If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
>>>  
>>> Dan H.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: hank pronk
>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> 
>>> Dan,
>>> are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
>>> Hank
>>> From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> 
>>> I used sealant in the rest of the viewports. 
>>>  
>>> I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens.  I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I simply went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports....   Glue them in with sealant!!! 
>>>  
>>> Dan H.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: swaters
>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> 
>>> Dan,
>>>  Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>> 
>>> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> I don't know.  There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport. 
>>>  
>>> I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in. 
>>>  
>>> My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
>>>  
>>> Dan H.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: swaters
>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> 
>>> What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>> 
>>> "Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring. 
>>>  
>>> Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice.  Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland.  (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off)  That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge.  Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring.  Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think.  When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit.  No sealant necessary.
>>>  
>>> Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.
>>>  
>>> Dan H.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jon Wallace
>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600.  The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
>>>> Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Scott Waters
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/f24ccef8/attachment-0001.html>

From jimtoddpsub at aol.com  Fri Sep  6 17:36:44 2013
From: jimtoddpsub at aol.com (jimtoddpsub at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 21:36:44 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
In-Reply-To: <9B10F154-F957-40AE-AE1E-4310E75E8206@yahoo.com>
References: <20130906105103.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.50231b20da.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <9B10F154-F957-40AE-AE1E-4310E75E8206@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1340929767-1378503403-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-780225040-@b2.c11.bise6.blackberry>

Scott,

Since it's a membrane instead of a bladder, you might be able to use gasket material (neoprene or other) from an auto supply store. 

Jim


Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
Sender: "Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 23:27:27 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Sep  6 17:44:27 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
In-Reply-To: <1340929767-1378503403-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-780225040-@b2.c11.bise6.blackberry>
References: <20130906105103.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.50231b20da.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <9B10F154-F957-40AE-AE1E-4310E75E8206@yahoo.com>
 <1340929767-1378503403-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-780225040-@b2.c11.bise6.blackberry>
Message-ID: <1378503867.43108.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I have an old?inner tube here for just such uses.? Cheap and rugged.? 
Hank

From: "jimtoddpsub at aol.com" <jimtoddpsub at aol.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:36:44 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel


Scott,

Since it's a membrane instead of a bladder, you might be able to use gasket material (neoprene or other) from an auto supply store. 

Jim


Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
Sender: "Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 23:27:27 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/a42c91d0/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Sep  6 17:45:14 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 16:45:14 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
Message-ID: <v55ve46fskh5wf2xt6gr1vrc.1378503809332@email.android.com>

I got regular oderless mineral oil. It is in a enclosed bladder system that runs my depth gauges so salt water won't be inside my gauges. We'll see how it works with the rubber. I also ran my first overnight O2 system check and it failed. I have a leak somewhere so I will be searching for that tonight.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:Scott,
As Jim said, be careful of the scented baby oil ( mineral oil ) you buy in the supermarkets.
I compensated AGM batteries with it & there was excessive off gassing from the batteries
Which didn't occur when I changed to pure mineral oil.
Regards Alan


Sent from my iPad

On 6/09/2013, at 7:51 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Thanks, I think I will do mineral oil. If it eats the rubber I think I will try to get a different kind of rubber.
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compensation with mineral oil or Marvel
From: Brian V Ryder <brian at subatlantic.com>
Date: Fri, September 06, 2013 8:32 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Just an FYI I use mineral oil in everything including hydralek hydraulic skid and it has a rubber bladder external for compensation she's been working full time for four years without any problems I buy it by the 5 gallon pails at McMaster Carr they have two grades one is very thin witch is what I use in all the Rov motors?
Brian

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 6, 2013, at 8:57 AM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:

Scott,
?
Marvel Mystery oil is 74% mineral oil, 25% stoddard solvent, and 1%lard. All the mineral oil I've found in drugstores contains fragrance. If you want pure mineral oil you can buy it by the gallon for about $15 at farm supply or veterinary supply stores.
?
Alec has the most simple system I've seen for oil compensated motors. When I saw it I discarded all my other designs The last I heard he was using MMO because of its lower viscosity instead of mineral oil. I question how long a rubber bladder will hold up with pure mineral oil.
?
Jim
?
In a message dated 9/6/2013 7:03:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com writes:
I used WD-40 for a couple of years and although it seemed to do the job it eventually caused the seals and soft tubes to get brittle.
?
Greg
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Scott,
Sorry you have these problems with conference looming.
I did tests on WD40 a while back & found it dissolved some plastics. It was used in some
Sub motors. And even if it mightn't dissolve plastics relatively quickly, these oils / spirits could do in time.
The professional compensating units used on ROVs are a spring loaded cylinder
that pressurise the oil to about 5 psi, however the pressure drops as the spring
expands. If you Google ROV compensating unit you may find some. I've seen them for sale
But they cost an arm & a leg.
Carsten & Emile are now using a low viscosity high priced silicone oil.
Not sure what they are using but I believe you can get silicone oil at a viscosity similar to water.
I air compensate my motors, but have been told oil compensating is safer because
It is more forgiving if water gets inside the motor, also there is the danger of stuffing your motors
& losing your ballast air if there is an air leak.
Sorry, this is a bit of a rave, hope it is helpful.
Regards Alan



Sent from my iPad

On 6/09/2013, at 2:27 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

So first failed test. I filled my oil compensating bladder and used marvel mystery oil. It ate away at the rubber of the bladder. I am useing rubber for landscapping pond liners. I think marvel mystery oil is a solvent. Should I use mineral oil or something?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
Scott
?
In your lathe,, turn and face a piece of stock about 1/2 inch long and a little under the small diameter of your lens. (a flat disk) Flip it around and drill a center hole in it with a center drill as you would in the end of a long shaft you want to turn in the lathe. (A hole to accept the lathe center) Don't go all the way through. Take it out and cover the faced end with strips of double sided tape.
?
Mount another chunk of round stock, just a little smaller in diameter then the larger diameter of the viewport in the chuck of your lathe. Face it true and cover it's face with double sided tape also.
?
Center up and stick on your lens blank then take the smaller piece you already prepared, hold it up against the tail stock center and crank it up against the other side of the lens blank.
?
With the lens taped to the drive plate and held in place with the force of the tail stock, you should be able to machine the taper you need. Of course, take light cuts and keep a close eye on it.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters at waters-ks.com
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Vance,
I am in the process of installing veiwports. How do you chuck up the conical viewport in the lathe to make a mating surface for the "O" ring? Can't seem to figure out how to make it work on the lathe and have access to the edge that I need to cut.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems
From: vbra676539 at aol.com
Date: Wed, June 12, 2013 4:01 pm
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org

I haven't tried the Nekton style on my K-frames, but will. Gamma uses a cork/neoprene blended gasket material, glued to the frame with aircraft grade gasket cement, but dry on assembly between the gasket and acrylic. If the compression is sufficient on the K-style, it should work there, as well.

I'm not a big fan of gaskets or flat disc viewports in any case, but 12,000+ dives for the Nektons is a pretty good statement. They work. Do not use straight neoprene gaskets, and I suspect that unglued urethane gaskets fall into the same category. They are too soft and will extrude to the low pressure side.

Side note: I HATE using silicone sealant in this kind of application. It works fine, but makes maintenance impossible. If you're going to do it, then just go ahead and build some extra viewports. You'll need them for replacements the next time you paint.

To complete Dan's (hey, Dan, good to hear from you again) conical viewport--machine a matching notch in the viewport frame, and as Dan describes, take off the corner of the port so that your o-ring sits in a square (in cross section) groove. Compression from your retaining ring will complete the form and it will not leak (ever). No sealant or glue is required for this design.

A well painted frame greased with oxygen compatible grease is what you want. The o-ring serves to keep the deep blue sea out on or near the surface, but the acrylic self-seals against the mating surface under pressure.

As to building the frustrum conical seats, Dan is also right. You can't get there from here without machining after welding. Perry build their conning towers as bolt on units, and that was the primary reason. A conning tower can be handled on regular floor sized machine tools. An entire submarine normally can not.

If I was building another K, it would have some very-Perryesque modifications--a bolt on conning tower with six ports in the cylinder being one of them.

Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I'd prefer to have all conical viewports and I don't think you can properly gasket a conical viewport. A rubber O-ring that seals at the edge where the lens meets the seat is as good as it gets on a conical viewport. The shape of the cone and the pressure on the big side of the cone ensure you'll never have a gap to extrude the O-ring. If it wasn't so difficult to machine the viewport seats conical after they are welded, I would have used all conical lenses and O-ring seals. It's impossible to hold the seat true if you machine a cone first then weld.
?
Gaskets on the flat viewports may be good too. If it works for Vance then it should work for you.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: hank pronk
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Dan,
are you against gaskets like Vance has on the Necton.
Hank
From: Dan H. <jumachine at comcast.net>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:04:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

I used sealant in the rest of the viewports.
?
I was concerned that the coefficient of expansion would be to great on the 15 inch viewport so that in really cold water there may be to big of a gap and possibly extrude the O-ring in along side the lens. I know it could be a problem with the sealant also but I simply went with seemed to work for others on the all the rest of my viewports.... Glue them in with sealant!!!
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

Dan,
?Did you put o-rings around all your view ports or did you seal the 8 inch veiw ports with sealant?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
I don't know. There isn't a lot of room for sealant in a conical viewport.
?
I like the fact that if I were to be incapacitated in the sub, all someone would have to do to get access to me is remove the six screws on the lens holder and easily pop the lens out to get access to the interior of the sub when it's not glued in.
?
My hatch latches from inside only, as the K-350 plans show.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems

What about 3M marine poly sealant #4000? Would that work?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Dan H." <jumachine at comcast.net> wrote:
Machine the sharp edge off the top side of the viewport lens so it creates a triangular cross section groove when installed in the conical seat and install an O-ring before bolting down the lens retaining ring.
?
Do a 10 or 20 time size drawing of the cross section groove area with any standard cross section O-ring of your choice. Draw in the lens edge to create a situation where you have about .020 inch squeeze on all three sides of the triangular gland. (seat, lens retainer and lens edge when the sharp part is machined off) That's how to determine how much to machine the lens edge. Get the squeeze to .020 inch per side on the O-ring. Try fan O-ring of .250 cross section or maybe a little less and see what you think. When you get the O-ring cross section and groove pinned down, pick an O-ring of a diameter that will fit. No sealant necessary.
?
Also you should grease the O-ring and conical seat before instillation.
?
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Wallace
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 blue print problems


It was sikaflex all the way around on the 600. The problem with it is that you really have to bang on the viewports to get them out and at least the way I removed them, I would only put back new ones.


On 6/11/2013 11:16 PM, swaters wrote:
Why did Kitteregde use a gasket and a "O" ring on the big veiwport and not on the small veiwports. Hank, why did useing the silicone suck? Was it hard to apply or did it not hold up well?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130906/c84bdd54/attachment-0001.html>

From subvet596 at optonline.net  Sat Sep  7 16:55:53 2013
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 20:55:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-Ringsfor ships hatch
Message-ID: <e509dfd024c9f.522b92d9@optonline.net>

High all:
 
I'm in need of O-rings for my two 24" entry hatches. Are there any suggestions on the type to use. 
 
John K.
(203) 414-1000
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130907/b2e4b877/attachment.html>

From emile at airesearch.nl  Sat Sep  7 17:45:42 2013
From: emile at airesearch.nl (Emile van Essen)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 23:45:42 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-Ringsfor ships hatch
In-Reply-To: <e509dfd024c9f.522b92d9@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAc1HixR5ctES84Ll7Cz/u4AEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

John,

 

Best is EPDM  60 Shore .

Don't choose the diameter too small.

 

Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens subvet596 at optonline.net
Verzonden: zaterdag 7 september 2013 22:56
Aan: PSUBS, Inc.
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-Ringsfor ships hatch

 

High all:

 

I'm in need of O-rings for my two 24" entry hatches. Are there any
suggestions on the type to use. 

 

John K.

(203) 414-1000

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130907/95563bb5/attachment.html>

From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sun Sep  8 13:34:40 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 13:34:40 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnKRwqwH6s2yOWr9bu9p3Y_yYWRpT4ARe4iJdJ6as867DQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about this year's convention,
I think it is going to be awesome! Before the convention I wanted to show
you my first ambient submersible that I purchased on ebay back in '04 so I
took her out diving over the labor day weekend on a check dive. The photos
are posted in the album "SNARK II" under my name on the site. I think
you'll find the last few photos of the album to be quite comical as well!

I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which features
photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well as 2013.
Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~ Douglas S.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130908/e485d460/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  9 03:31:42 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 09:31:42 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
Message-ID: <443ECCF0-C35F-49B7-8095-23E68608A4AA@yahoo.com>

I don't want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days
I've visited Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the Nordic sub.
Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany, on the Baltic sea.
Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats visiting.
Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is nothing like being there. 
The photos & videos don't do the boats justice. When you get inside the Euronaut you
 can appreciate why it took 12 years to build. Carsten spent about 2 to 3 hrs answering
Questions & explaining it's features. One stand out design feature was the many beer
Bottle holders with Irish beer in them. I think these were the first items he designed in
his CAD program & the rest of the boat evolved around these.
Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the day before.
Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20 minutes by train from Amsterdam.
He has the Nordic sub moored permanently outside a dive facility on a very picturesque little
Lake. I am going in to a bit of detail here in case anyone wants to take their wife for a holiday
In the Netherlands. Emile operates the submarine commercially & the dive was certainly the
highlight of my trip so far.  He had a lot of control over the boat & was hovering inches above
Wrecks. The Nordic sub dives slightly lite so it can move off the bottom without engaging
the thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
It was a pleasure meeting up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to me on the net
over the last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
Regards Alan


Sent from my iPad

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Sep  9 09:04:40 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 06:04:40 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
Message-ID: <20130909060440.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56e95995fc.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/76b456e2/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep  9 09:17:32 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 09:17:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
Message-ID: <7fd3a.6b3a44fa.3f5f246c@aol.com>

Alan,
Congratulations on that portion of your world tour.  Did you take any  
pictures?  Looking forward to seeing you in Florida at the  convention.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/9/2013 2:32:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com writes:

I don't  want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days
I've visited  Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the 
Nordic  sub.
Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany,  on 
the Baltic sea.
Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats  visiting.
Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is  nothing like 
being there. 
The photos & videos don't do the boats  justice. When you get inside the 
Euronaut you
can appreciate why it took 12  years to build. Carsten spent about 2 to 3 
hrs answering
Questions &  explaining it's features. One stand out design feature was the 
many  beer
Bottle holders with Irish beer in them. I think these were the first  items 
he designed in
his CAD program & the rest of the boat evolved  around these.
Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the  day before.
Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20  minutes by train 
from Amsterdam.
He has the Nordic sub moored permanently  outside a dive facility on a very 
picturesque little
Lake. I am going in to  a bit of detail here in case anyone wants to take 
their wife for a  holiday
In the Netherlands. Emile operates the submarine commercially &  the dive 
was certainly the
highlight of my trip so far.  He had a lot  of control over the boat & was 
hovering inches above
Wrecks. The Nordic  sub dives slightly lite so it can move off the bottom 
without engaging
the  thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
It was a pleasure meeting  up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to 
me on the net
over the  last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
Regards Alan


Sent from my  iPad
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/62f6c84c/attachment-0001.html>

From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 12:53:58 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 12:53:58 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
In-Reply-To: <20130909060440.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56e95995fc.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20130909060440.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56e95995fc.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjn+LpJdmi0WdgULbSKkwYpM1JPK5G+CJHx8o-bfGC8_sBw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott, thanks! The water temperature was about 72 degrees and the
visibility was 3 to 4 feet. Chautauqua lake is fairly close to us,
unfortunately it is not the best waters for diving. The water is very green
with algae and the seaweed is a constant fight until you get into the deep
water. The lake serves well for testing purposes though.

The only modification we made was a new pressure cap for the motor housing.
This submersible's thruster is not pressure compensated but instead sealed
in a 1-atm container. This is of course fine as long as you don't have any
leaking, which unfortunately we did when we first purchased the sub. We
ended up having to completely remove the motor from the housing, clean and
lubricate the motor and replace the relay. Then we had to discover the leak
point. Fortunately it wasn't the shaft seal, only the access cap on the
housing. We modified a new cap from one we purchased at a marine supply
house and haven't experienced any more water intrusion since. I'll tell you
though, after all this mess I am much more in favor of pressure
compensating than trying to seal a 1-atm container.

Hope you are coming along nicely with Trustworthy. I can't wait to see her
in person at the convention! The photos look very nice, but you know they
can never really speak for the real thing. ~ Douglas S.


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Awesome Douglas!,
> How was the water? Did you have to do any mods to the submersible to get
> it working?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
> From: Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, September 08, 2013 10:34 am
> To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about this year's
> convention, I think it is going to be awesome! Before the convention I
> wanted to show you my first ambient submersible that I purchased on ebay
> back in '04 so I took her out diving over the labor day weekend on a check
> dive. The photos are posted in the album "SNARK II" under my name on the
> site. I think you'll find the last few photos of the album to be quite
> comical as well!
>
> I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which features
> photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well as 2013.
> Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~ Douglas S.
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/0084f18f/attachment.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 13:04:23 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 13:04:23 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjn+LpJdmi0WdgULbSKkwYpM1JPK5G+CJHx8o-bfGC8_sBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20130909060440.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56e95995fc.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <CAOGJjn+LpJdmi0WdgULbSKkwYpM1JPK5G+CJHx8o-bfGC8_sBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6VUTsT_Oujxzvd8fV=aQue4RFNFyUCCXS7AvvXGUnOyA@mail.gmail.com>

Douglas,

Last year I was on vacation and went over to look at a bunch of these at a
dive concession. Yours looks impeccable by comparison. You wouldn't believe
the things they'd jury-rigged! My favorite was a kitchen glove penetrator.
They got a rubber kitchen glove, poked cables out the fingers, and filled
the whole thing with resin. They'd also used kitchen gloves fingers to make
"housings" for switches.

Best,

Alec


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Scott, thanks! The water temperature was about 72 degrees and the
> visibility was 3 to 4 feet. Chautauqua lake is fairly close to us,
> unfortunately it is not the best waters for diving. The water is very green
> with algae and the seaweed is a constant fight until you get into the deep
> water. The lake serves well for testing purposes though.
>
> The only modification we made was a new pressure cap for the motor
> housing. This submersible's thruster is not pressure compensated but
> instead sealed in a 1-atm container. This is of course fine as long as you
> don't have any leaking, which unfortunately we did when we first purchased
> the sub. We ended up having to completely remove the motor from the
> housing, clean and lubricate the motor and replace the relay. Then we had
> to discover the leak point. Fortunately it wasn't the shaft seal, only the
> access cap on the housing. We modified a new cap from one we purchased at a
> marine supply house and haven't experienced any more water intrusion since.
> I'll tell you though, after all this mess I am much more in favor of
> pressure compensating than trying to seal a 1-atm container.
>
> Hope you are coming along nicely with Trustworthy. I can't wait to see her
> in person at the convention! The photos look very nice, but you know they
> can never really speak for the real thing. ~ Douglas S.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>> Awesome Douglas!,
>> How was the water? Did you have to do any mods to the submersible to get
>> it working?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
>> From: Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, September 08, 2013 10:34 am
>> To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>> Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about this year's
>> convention, I think it is going to be awesome! Before the convention I
>> wanted to show you my first ambient submersible that I purchased on ebay
>> back in '04 so I took her out diving over the labor day weekend on a check
>> dive. The photos are posted in the album "SNARK II" under my name on the
>> site. I think you'll find the last few photos of the album to be quite
>> comical as well!
>>
>> I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which features
>> photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well as 2013.
>> Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~ Douglas S.
>>  ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/0fe05092/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  9 14:04:25 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 20:04:25 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
In-Reply-To: <7fd3a.6b3a44fa.3f5f246c@aol.com>
References: <7fd3a.6b3a44fa.3f5f246c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4034FE6C-9C60-4C04-A37D-73E172FB1757@yahoo.com>

Hi Jim,
Thanks, yes took some pictures & video. Will show you at conference.
Everywhere you go people engage you in conversation & eventually
It gets to my destination in America being a submarine convention.
People are just so interested in the concept of personal submersibles.
Looking forward to catching up with everyone.
Regards Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 9/09/2013, at 3:17 PM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:

> Alan,
> Congratulations on that portion of your world tour.  Did you take any pictures?  Looking forward to seeing you in Florida at the convention.
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 9/9/2013 2:32:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com writes:
> I don't want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days
> I've visited Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the Nordic sub.
> Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany, on the Baltic sea.
> Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats visiting.
> Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is nothing like being there. 
> The photos & videos don't do the boats justice. When you get inside the Euronaut you
> can appreciate why it took 12 years to build. Carsten spent about 2 to 3 hrs answering
> Questions & explaining it's features. One stand out design feature was the many beer
> Bottle holders with Irish beer in them. I think these were the first items he designed in
> his CAD program & the rest of the boat evolved around these.
> Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the day before.
> Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20 minutes by train from Amsterdam.
> He has the Nordic sub moored permanently outside a dive facility on a very picturesque little
> Lake. I am going in to a bit of detail here in case anyone wants to take their wife for a holiday
> In the Netherlands. Emile operates the submarine commercially & the dive was certainly the
> highlight of my trip so far.  He had a lot of control over the boat & was hovering inches above
> Wrecks. The Nordic sub dives slightly lite so it can move off the bottom without engaging
> the thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
> It was a pleasure meeting up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to me on the net
> over the last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
> Regards Alan
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/d5ed43b9/attachment-0001.html>

From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 14:43:46 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:43:46 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
In-Reply-To: <4034FE6C-9C60-4C04-A37D-73E172FB1757@yahoo.com>
References: <7fd3a.6b3a44fa.3f5f246c@aol.com>
 <4034FE6C-9C60-4C04-A37D-73E172FB1757@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjn+7xMwPryi4v29cdnXj8F8dkx6vsKHxh767x4kHf1kW-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Too late Alan, I'm already jealous! Can't wait to see your photos /
footage. Wish I could have been there. ~ Douglas S.


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> Thanks, yes took some pictures & video. Will show you at conference.
> Everywhere you go people engage you in conversation & eventually
> It gets to my destination in America being a submarine convention.
> People are just so interested in the concept of personal submersibles.
> Looking forward to catching up with everyone.
> Regards Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 9/09/2013, at 3:17 PM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:
>
>  Alan,
> Congratulations on that portion of your world tour.  Did you take any
> pictures?  Looking forward to seeing you in Florida at the convention.
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 9/9/2013 2:32:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com writes:
>
> I don't want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days
> I've visited Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the
> Nordic sub.
> Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany, on
> the Baltic sea.
> Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats visiting.
> Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is nothing like
> being there.
> The photos & videos don't do the boats justice. When you get inside the
> Euronaut you
> can appreciate why it took 12 years to build. Carsten spent about 2 to 3
> hrs answering
> Questions & explaining it's features. One stand out design feature was the
> many beer
> Bottle holders with Irish beer in them. I think these were the first items
> he designed in
> his CAD program & the rest of the boat evolved around these.
> Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the day before.
> Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20 minutes by train
> from Amsterdam.
> He has the Nordic sub moored permanently outside a dive facility on a very
> picturesque little
> Lake. I am going in to a bit of detail here in case anyone wants to take
> their wife for a holiday
> In the Netherlands. Emile operates the submarine commercially & the dive
> was certainly the
> highlight of my trip so far.  He had a lot of control over the boat & was
> hovering inches above
> Wrecks. The Nordic sub dives slightly lite so it can move off the bottom
> without engaging
> the thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
> It was a pleasure meeting up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to
> me on the net
> over the last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
> Regards Alan
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/8995e8d4/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep  9 14:47:05 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:47:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rubber Glove Penetrator
Message-ID: <8a8b7.684c285c.3f5f71a9@aol.com>

Alec,
Did you take any pictures of the glove or any of the other  "innovations"?  
 Any guesses as to what material they used that didn't  melt the glove 
while it was setting up and curing?
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/9/2013 12:05:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
alecsmyth at gmail.com writes:

Douglas,  


Last year I was on vacation and went over to look at a bunch of these at  a 
dive concession. Yours looks impeccable by comparison. You wouldn't believe 
 the things they'd jury-rigged! My favorite was a kitchen glove penetrator. 
 They got a rubber kitchen glove, poked cables out the fingers, and filled 
the  whole thing with resin. They'd also used kitchen gloves fingers to make 
 "housings" for switches. 


Best,


Alec



On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Douglas Suhr <_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) > wrote:

Hi Scott, thanks! The water temperature was about 72 degrees  and the 
visibility was 3 to 4 feet. Chautauqua lake is fairly close to us,  unfortunately 
it is not the best waters for diving. The water is very green  with algae 
and the seaweed is a constant fight until you get into the deep  water. The 
lake serves well for testing purposes though.   


The only modification we made was a new pressure cap for the motor  
housing. This submersible's thruster is not pressure compensated but instead  
sealed in a 1-atm container. This is of course fine as long as you don't  have 
any leaking, which unfortunately we did when we first purchased the  sub. We 
ended up having to completely remove the motor from the housing,  clean and 
lubricate the motor and replace the relay. Then we had to discover  the leak 
point. Fortunately it wasn't the shaft seal, only the access cap on  the 
housing. We modified a new cap from one we purchased at a marine supply  house 
and haven't experienced any more water intrusion since. I'll tell you  
though, after all this mess I am much more in favor of pressure compensating  
than trying to seal a 1-atm container. 


Hope you are coming along nicely with Trustworthy. I can't wait to see  her 
in person at the convention! The photos look very nice, but you know  they 
can never really speak for the real thing. ~ Douglas S.  

 
 


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > wrote:


Awesome Douglas!,
How was the water? Did you have to do any mods to the submersible to  get 
it working?
Thanks,
Scott Waters 
 

 
 
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]  Labor Day Diving
From: Douglas Suhr <_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) >
Date: Sun, September  08, 2013 10:34 am
To: "_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) " <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >

Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about this  year's 
convention, I think it is going to be awesome! Before the  convention I wanted to show 
you my first ambient submersible that I  purchased on ebay back in '04 so I 
took her out diving over the labor  day weekend on a check dive. The photos 
are posted in the album "SNARK  II" under my name on the site. I think 
you'll find the last few photos  of the album to be quite comical as well!   


I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which  features 
photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well as  2013. 
Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~ Douglas  S. 



 
____________________________________
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/883ca226/attachment.html>

From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 14:50:33 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:50:33 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ6VUTsT_Oujxzvd8fV=aQue4RFNFyUCCXS7AvvXGUnOyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20130909060440.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.56e95995fc.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <CAOGJjn+LpJdmi0WdgULbSKkwYpM1JPK5G+CJHx8o-bfGC8_sBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ6VUTsT_Oujxzvd8fV=aQue4RFNFyUCCXS7AvvXGUnOyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnJKe6zp3wPDF9w1BZv=D5dpYaweb-ZwhRqAkCXALACVjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yikes! I have never seen one of these operations in person but it sounds
like jury-rigged fits the bill! Without hurting their feelings I think I
would just stick to my own sub! ~ Douglas S.


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:

> Douglas,
>
> Last year I was on vacation and went over to look at a bunch of these at a
> dive concession. Yours looks impeccable by comparison. You wouldn't believe
> the things they'd jury-rigged! My favorite was a kitchen glove penetrator.
> They got a rubber kitchen glove, poked cables out the fingers, and filled
> the whole thing with resin. They'd also used kitchen gloves fingers to make
> "housings" for switches.
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Scott, thanks! The water temperature was about 72 degrees and the
>> visibility was 3 to 4 feet. Chautauqua lake is fairly close to us,
>> unfortunately it is not the best waters for diving. The water is very green
>> with algae and the seaweed is a constant fight until you get into the deep
>> water. The lake serves well for testing purposes though.
>>
>> The only modification we made was a new pressure cap for the motor
>> housing. This submersible's thruster is not pressure compensated but
>> instead sealed in a 1-atm container. This is of course fine as long as you
>> don't have any leaking, which unfortunately we did when we first purchased
>> the sub. We ended up having to completely remove the motor from the
>> housing, clean and lubricate the motor and replace the relay. Then we had
>> to discover the leak point. Fortunately it wasn't the shaft seal, only the
>> access cap on the housing. We modified a new cap from one we purchased at a
>> marine supply house and haven't experienced any more water intrusion since.
>> I'll tell you though, after all this mess I am much more in favor of
>> pressure compensating than trying to seal a 1-atm container.
>>
>> Hope you are coming along nicely with Trustworthy. I can't wait to see
>> her in person at the convention! The photos look very nice, but you know
>> they can never really speak for the real thing. ~ Douglas S.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Awesome Douglas!,
>>> How was the water? Did you have to do any mods to the submersible to get
>>> it working?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
>>> From: Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sun, September 08, 2013 10:34 am
>>> To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about this year's
>>> convention, I think it is going to be awesome! Before the convention I
>>> wanted to show you my first ambient submersible that I purchased on ebay
>>> back in '04 so I took her out diving over the labor day weekend on a check
>>> dive. The photos are posted in the album "SNARK II" under my name on the
>>> site. I think you'll find the last few photos of the album to be quite
>>> comical as well!
>>>
>>> I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which features
>>> photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well as 2013.
>>> Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~ Douglas S.
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/2c8e53c8/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  9 14:54:43 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 20:54:43 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rubber Glove Penetrator
In-Reply-To: <8a8b7.684c285c.3f5f71a9@aol.com>
References: <8a8b7.684c285c.3f5f71a9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <277543AD-6587-41CB-9F5F-D237821285DF@yahoo.com>

Epoxy would be Ok Jim,
Are you thinking of doing the same?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 9/09/2013, at 8:47 PM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:

> Alec,
> Did you take any pictures of the glove or any of the other "innovations"?   Any guesses as to what material they used that didn't melt the glove while it was setting up and curing?
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 9/9/2013 12:05:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alecsmyth at gmail.com writes:
> Douglas,
> 
> Last year I was on vacation and went over to look at a bunch of these at a dive concession. Yours looks impeccable by comparison. You wouldn't believe the things they'd jury-rigged! My favorite was a kitchen glove penetrator. They got a rubber kitchen glove, poked cables out the fingers, and filled the whole thing with resin. They'd also used kitchen gloves fingers to make "housings" for switches. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Scott, thanks! The water temperature was about 72 degrees and the visibility was 3 to 4 feet. Chautauqua lake is fairly close to us, unfortunately it is not the best waters for diving. The water is very green with algae and the seaweed is a constant fight until you get into the deep water. The lake serves well for testing purposes though. 
>> 
>> The only modification we made was a new pressure cap for the motor housing. This submersible's thruster is not pressure compensated but instead sealed in a 1-atm container. This is of course fine as long as you don't have any leaking, which unfortunately we did when we first purchased the sub. We ended up having to completely remove the motor from the housing, clean and lubricate the motor and replace the relay. Then we had to discover the leak point. Fortunately it wasn't the shaft seal, only the access cap on the housing. We modified a new cap from one we purchased at a marine supply house and haven't experienced any more water intrusion since. I'll tell you though, after all this mess I am much more in favor of pressure compensating than trying to seal a 1-atm container. 
>> 
>> Hope you are coming along nicely with Trustworthy. I can't wait to see her in person at the convention! The photos look very nice, but you know they can never really speak for the real thing. ~ Douglas S.  
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>> Awesome Douglas!,
>>> How was the water? Did you have to do any mods to the submersible to get it working?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters 
>>>  
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
>>> From: Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sun, September 08, 2013 10:34 am
>>> To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> 
>>> Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about this year's convention, I think it is going to be awesome! Before the convention I wanted to show you my first ambient submersible that I purchased on ebay back in '04 so I took her out diving over the labor day weekend on a check dive. The photos are posted in the album "SNARK II" under my name on the site. I think you'll find the last few photos of the album to be quite comical as well! 
>>> 
>>> I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which features photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well as 2013. Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~ Douglas S. 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/dff8ddc1/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep  9 15:05:19 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 15:05:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rubber Glove Penetrator
Message-ID: <10cebe.70a26253.3f5f75ef@aol.com>

Well, nothing I can picture that involves a rubber glove.  The only  resins 
I have worked with have quite an exothermic reaction, so always curious  
about other materials.  Still, I file away even those ideas that sound a  bit 
strange.  You never know when a situation may arise that fits.
-Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/9/2013 1:55:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com writes:

Epoxy would be Ok Jim,
Are you thinking of doing the same?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 9/09/2013, at 8:47 PM, _JimToddPsub at aol.com_ 
(mailto:JimToddPsub at aol.com)  wrote:



 
Alec,
Did you take any pictures of the glove or any of the other  "innovations"?  
 Any guesses as to what material they used that  didn't melt the glove 
while it was setting up and curing?
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/9/2013 12:05:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
_alecsmyth at gmail.com_ (mailto:alecsmyth at gmail.com)  writes:

Douglas,  


Last year I was on vacation and went over to look at a bunch of these  at a 
dive concession. Yours looks impeccable by comparison. You wouldn't  
believe the things they'd jury-rigged! My favorite was a kitchen glove  
penetrator. They got a rubber kitchen glove, poked cables out the fingers,  and filled 
the whole thing with resin. They'd also used kitchen gloves  fingers to 
make "housings" for switches. 


Best,


Alec



On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Douglas Suhr <_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) > wrote:

Hi Scott, thanks! The water temperature was about 72  degrees and the 
visibility was 3 to 4 feet. Chautauqua lake is fairly  close to us, unfortunately 
it is not the best waters for diving. The  water is very green with algae 
and the seaweed is a constant fight until  you get into the deep water. The 
lake serves well for testing purposes  though.   


The only modification we made was a new pressure cap for the motor  
housing. This submersible's thruster is not pressure compensated but  instead 
sealed in a 1-atm container. This is of course fine as long as  you don't have 
any leaking, which unfortunately we did when we first  purchased the sub. We 
ended up having to completely remove the motor  from the housing, clean and 
lubricate the motor and replace the relay.  Then we had to discover the leak 
point. Fortunately it wasn't the shaft  seal, only the access cap on the 
housing. We modified a new cap from one  we purchased at a marine supply house 
and haven't experienced any more  water intrusion since. I'll tell you 
though, after all this mess I am  much more in favor of pressure compensating 
than trying to seal a 1-atm  container. 


Hope you are coming along nicely with Trustworthy. I can't wait to  see her 
in person at the convention! The photos look very nice, but you  know they 
can never really speak for the real thing. ~ Douglas S.  

 
 


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) > wrote:


Awesome Douglas!,
How was the water? Did you have to do any mods to the submersible  to get 
it working?
Thanks,
Scott Waters 
 

 
 
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]  Labor Day Diving
From: Douglas Suhr <_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) >
Date: Sun,  September 08, 2013 10:34 am
To: "_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) " <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >

Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about  this year's 
convention, I think it is going to be awesome! Before  the convention I wanted to show 
you my first ambient submersible  that I purchased on ebay back in '04 so I 
took her out diving over  the labor day weekend on a check dive. The photos 
are posted in the  album "SNARK II" under my name on the site. I think 
you'll find the  last few photos of the album to be quite comical as well!   


I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which  features 
photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well  as 2013. 
Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~  Douglas S. 



 
____________________________________
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/4166b02e/attachment-0001.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 15:13:42 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 15:13:42 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rubber Glove Penetrator
In-Reply-To: <8a8b7.684c285c.3f5f71a9@aol.com>
References: <8a8b7.684c285c.3f5f71a9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ4YmMiMvFYx7BskKmXbBXB9qDvkrt6aP8tAi9_oEyopGg@mail.gmail.com>

No, sorry!


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 2:47 PM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:

> **
> Alec,
> Did you take any pictures of the glove or any of the other
> "innovations"?   Any guesses as to what material they used that didn't melt
> the glove while it was setting up and curing?
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 9/9/2013 12:05:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> alecsmyth at gmail.com writes:
>
> Douglas,
>
> Last year I was on vacation and went over to look at a bunch of these at a
> dive concession. Yours looks impeccable by comparison. You wouldn't believe
> the things they'd jury-rigged! My favorite was a kitchen glove penetrator.
> They got a rubber kitchen glove, poked cables out the fingers, and filled
> the whole thing with resin. They'd also used kitchen gloves fingers to make
> "housings" for switches.
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Scott, thanks! The water temperature was about 72 degrees and the
>> visibility was 3 to 4 feet. Chautauqua lake is fairly close to us,
>> unfortunately it is not the best waters for diving. The water is very green
>> with algae and the seaweed is a constant fight until you get into the deep
>> water. The lake serves well for testing purposes though.
>>
>> The only modification we made was a new pressure cap for the motor
>> housing. This submersible's thruster is not pressure compensated but
>> instead sealed in a 1-atm container. This is of course fine as long as you
>> don't have any leaking, which unfortunately we did when we first purchased
>> the sub. We ended up having to completely remove the motor from the
>> housing, clean and lubricate the motor and replace the relay. Then we had
>> to discover the leak point. Fortunately it wasn't the shaft seal, only the
>> access cap on the housing. We modified a new cap from one we purchased at a
>> marine supply house and haven't experienced any more water intrusion since.
>> I'll tell you though, after all this mess I am much more in favor of
>> pressure compensating than trying to seal a 1-atm container.
>>
>> Hope you are coming along nicely with Trustworthy. I can't wait to see
>> her in person at the convention! The photos look very nice, but you know
>> they can never really speak for the real thing. ~ Douglas S.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Awesome Douglas!,
>>> How was the water? Did you have to do any mods to the submersible to get
>>> it working?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>>
>>>
>>>  -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Labor Day Diving
>>> From: Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sun, September 08, 2013 10:34 am
>>> To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> Hi folks, hope you are all as excited as I am about this year's
>>> convention, I think it is going to be awesome! Before the convention I
>>> wanted to show you my first ambient submersible that I purchased on ebay
>>> back in '04 so I took her out diving over the labor day weekend on a check
>>> dive. The photos are posted in the album "SNARK II" under my name on the
>>> site. I think you'll find the last few photos of the album to be quite
>>> comical as well!
>>>
>>> I have also posted an album called "K-250 then and now" which features
>>> photos of the old K-boat down in Marathon from 1996 as well as 2013.
>>> Interesting what 17 years will do to an exposed sub. ~ Douglas S.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/c96afb04/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Sep  9 18:35:10 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 15:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
In-Reply-To: <443ECCF0-C35F-49B7-8095-23E68608A4AA@yahoo.com>
References: <443ECCF0-C35F-49B7-8095-23E68608A4AA@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1378766110.85262.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
That is fantastic, your world tour.? How great you can meet these guys and see there great accomplishments.? 
Hank

From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 1:31:42 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs


I don't want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days
I've visited Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the Nordic sub.
Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany, on the Baltic sea.
Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats visiting.
Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is nothing like being there. 
The photos & videos don't do the boats justice. When you get inside the Euronaut you
can appreciate why it took 12 years to build. Carsten spent about 2 to 3 hrs answering
Questions & explaining it's features. One stand out design feature was the many beer
Bottle holders with Irish beer in them. I think these were the first items he designed in
his CAD program & the rest of the boat evolved around these.
Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the day before.
Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20 minutes by train from Amsterdam.
He has the Nordic sub moored permanently outside a dive facility on a very picturesque little
Lake. I am going in to a bit of detail here in case anyone wants to take their wife for a holiday
In the Netherlands. Emile operates the submarine commercially & the dive was certainly the
highlight of my trip so far.? He had a lot of control over the boat & was hovering inches above
Wrecks. The Nordic sub dives slightly lite so it can move off the bottom without engaging
the thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
It was a pleasure meeting up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to me on the net
over the last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
Regards Alan


Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/54fbf4db/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Sep  9 19:53:29 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 18:53:29 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
Message-ID: <pt4ts0s1gyx61cjpnxavlslo.1378770802211@email.android.com>






Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

-------- Original message --------
Subject:Help
From:swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Cc:

In trying to finalize my sub I realized the seals I ordered for the thrusters are not the same as for the main motor. Does anyone know where to get the seal for the main motor? Please help.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130909/638a937d/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 10 02:06:50 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 08:06:50 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
In-Reply-To: <1378766110.85262.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <443ECCF0-C35F-49B7-8095-23E68608A4AA@yahoo.com>
 <1378766110.85262.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <63444629-5DBA-4BC0-AE23-D919BB1319CA@yahoo.com>

Thanks Hank,
I was originally planning to go straight to conference from West to East but
due to a savings on dental work of about $3 - 4,000 in Thailand, ended up
Going via Europe. Hope I find some more subs on the way. I 'm sure I will get 
Bored with old buildings soon.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 10/09/2013, at 12:35 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Alan,
> That is fantastic, your world tour.  How great you can meet these guys and see there great accomplishments. 
> Hank
> 
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 1:31:42 AM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
> 
> I don't want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days
> I've visited Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the Nordic sub.
> Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany, on the Baltic sea.
> Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats visiting.
> Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is nothing like being there. 
> The photos & videos don't do the boats justice. When you get inside the Euronaut you
> can appreciate why it took 12 years to build. Carsten spent about 2 to 3 hrs answering
> Questions & explaining it's features. One stand out design feature was the many beer
> Bottle holders with Irish beer in them. I think these were the first items he designed in
> his CAD program & the rest of the boat evolved around these.
> Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the day before.
> Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20 minutes by train from Amsterdam.
> He has the Nordic sub moored permanently outside a dive facility on a very picturesque little
> Lake. I am going in to a bit of detail here in case anyone wants to take their wife for a holiday
> In the Netherlands. Emile operates the submarine commercially & the dive was certainly the
> highlight of my trip so far.  He had a lot of control over the boat & was hovering inches above
> Wrecks. The Nordic sub dives slightly lite so it can move off the bottom without engaging
> the thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
> It was a pleasure meeting up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to me on the net
> over the last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
> Regards Alan
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/2a482273/attachment-0001.html>

From Alec.Smyth at covisint.com  Tue Sep 10 06:16:00 2013
From: Alec.Smyth at covisint.com (Smyth, Alec)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:16:00 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
In-Reply-To: <pt4ts0s1gyx61cjpnxavlslo.1378770802211@email.android.com>
References: <pt4ts0s1gyx61cjpnxavlslo.1378770802211@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <4cb839276c1b44338ddde2cb3cffb6b8@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Scott, do you have any part number, specs, etc.? Sorry, I don?t have K-350 drawings.

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:53 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help






Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone



-------- Original message --------
Subject:Help
From:swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com<mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com>>
To:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Cc:

In trying to finalize my sub I realized the seals I ordered for the thrusters are not the same as for the main motor. Does anyone know where to get the seal for the main motor? Please help.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/b226b130/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Sep 10 08:27:20 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 05:27:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
In-Reply-To: <4cb839276c1b44338ddde2cb3cffb6b8@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <pt4ts0s1gyx61cjpnxavlslo.1378770802211@email.android.com>
 <4cb839276c1b44338ddde2cb3cffb6b8@DM2PR05MB383.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1378816040.75779.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
Any pump repair shop will have that seal on the shelf.
Hank

From: "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 4:16:00 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help



Scott, do you have any part number, specs, etc.? Sorry, I don?t have K-350 drawings.
?
From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:53 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
?
?
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone



-------- Original message --------
Subject:Help
From:swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Cc:


In trying to finalize my sub I realized the seals I ordered for the thrusters are not the same as for the main motor. Does anyone know where to get the seal for the main motor? Please help.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/ff5db34b/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Tue Sep 10 11:34:44 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:34:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bond sub
Message-ID: <a444d.1405134a.3f609614@aol.com>

Man bought the contents of a storage locker for $100 several years  ago and 
found this inside.  Now going up for auction in England.   -Jim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHpY4BSRAN8
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPE--qRDyk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/bef89265/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Tue Sep 10 14:33:01 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 13:33:01 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
Message-ID: <pp9fnaqk4ficra53o8amqckn.1378837876358@email.android.com>

It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.?
I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read after being copied over and over.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:Scott, do you have any part number, specs, etc.? Sorry, I don?t have K-350 drawings.
?
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:53 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
?
?
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone



-------- Original message --------
Subject:Help
From:swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Cc:


In trying to finalize my sub I realized the seals I ordered for the thrusters are not the same as for the main motor. Does anyone know where to get the seal for the main motor? Please help.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/969e547f/attachment-0001.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 15:04:17 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:04:17 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
In-Reply-To: <pp9fnaqk4ficra53o8amqckn.1378837876358@email.android.com>
References: <pp9fnaqk4ficra53o8amqckn.1378837876358@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6F5ciEhyUQgOQGAYSTLgapkLZxN0Pfb9ruOMuL7S+U4A@mail.gmail.com>

It does not appear (per Google) that there is any such thing as a John
Crane #883. But here's a typical mechanical seal for a pump, and in this
case for a .875" shaft.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9281k256/=og76kj


On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:33 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.
> I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read
> after being copied over and over.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:
>
> Scott, do you have any part number, specs, etc.? Sorry, I don?t have K-350
> drawings.****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *swaters
> *Sent:* Monday, September 09, 2013 7:53 PM
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone****
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject:Help
> From:swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
> To:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Cc:
>
> ****
>
> In trying to finalize my sub I realized the seals I ordered for the
> thrusters are not the same as for the main motor. Does anyone know where to
> get the seal for the main motor? Please help.****
>
> Thanks,****
>
> Scott Waters****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone****
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/2c5ca3c7/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Tue Sep 10 17:52:29 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:52:29 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
Message-ID: <aga0hw1u11o6dfesjsp2wcrr.1378849424996@email.android.com>

The blue print shows a mechanical seal with out the spring. I am confused why Kitteredge used different seals than the trusters for the main motor. It is to late to change it though because I already have it set up according to the blue prints.?
The OD of the seal is 1.85" and the depth of the cavity for the seal is .34". The rotating shaft is 7/8".
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:It does not appear (per Google) that there is any such thing as a John Crane #883. But here's a typical mechanical seal for a pump, and in this case for a .875" shaft.?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9281k256/=og76kj


On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:33 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.?
I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read after being copied over and over.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:
Scott, do you have any part number, specs, etc.? Sorry, I don?t have K-350 drawings.

?

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:53 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help

?

?

?

?

?

?

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone




-------- Original message --------
Subject:Help
From:swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Cc:


In trying to finalize my sub I realized the seals I ordered for the thrusters are not the same as for the main motor. Does anyone know where to get the seal for the main motor? Please help.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

?

?

?

?

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/8bfc1691/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Tue Sep 10 21:45:27 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 21:45:27 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
In-Reply-To: <pp9fnaqk4ficra53o8amqckn.1378837876358@email.android.com>
References: <pp9fnaqk4ficra53o8amqckn.1378837876358@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <522FCB37.9030000@psubs.org>


Yes, that one plan in particular is pretty nasty.  It's a Crane 8B3, not 
883.  The exact wording is as follows:

Crane 8B3 Seal (see Crane DWG CF-SP-44204)
or US Seal PS 309 (see DWG K350-025-3)

The 600 required the same seal (8B3) but they are not manufactured 
anymore.  I contacted Crane back when I removed the K600 motors because 
it was pretty obvious they were going to have to be replaced and they 
were more than willing to manufacture an exact duplicate for $1800 per 
seal.  The replacement is an 8-1 which was going to cost $1000 per 
seal.  That's one reason I scrapped the existing motor configuration and 
decided on fixed minn-kota thrusters.  I purchased four 101# thrust 
minn-kotas for less than the price of one Crane mechanical seal.

You have another option with the K350 however, US Seal PS-309 (150psi) 
and they are cheap, between $50-100.
http://www.*usseal*mfg.com/pdfs/*US*_*Seal*_Mfg_Catalog_2012.pdf
I couldn't use the 309 because I needed a rating of 300+ psi but the 309 
at 150psi will theoretically get you close to max dive depth.

Jon


On 9/10/2013 2:33 PM, swaters wrote:
> It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.
> I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to 
> read after being copied over and over.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/5918bc05/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Tue Sep 10 22:10:11 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 21:10:11 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
Message-ID: <it3b547l56nx4e0itm5dmfbo.1378865260317@email.android.com>

Jon,
I currently have thre of those US seals. The problem is it is a OD of 1.5" and is to small to fit the collar. I am thinking of some how building a insert that will make the US seal fit. Other than that, I believe I am out of options.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:
Yes, that one plan in particular is pretty nasty.? It's a Crane 8B3, not 883.? The exact wording is as follows:

Crane 8B3 Seal (see Crane DWG CF-SP-44204)
or US Seal PS 309 (see DWG K350-025-3)

The 600 required the same seal (8B3) but they are not manufactured anymore.? I contacted Crane back when I removed the K600 motors because it was pretty obvious they were going to have to be replaced and they were more than willing to manufacture an exact duplicate for $1800 per seal.? The replacement is an 8-1 which was going to cost $1000 per seal.? That's one reason I scrapped the existing motor configuration and decided on fixed minn-kota thrusters.? I purchased four 101# thrust minn-kotas for less than the price of one Crane mechanical seal.

You have another option with the K350 however, US Seal PS-309 (150psi) and they are cheap, between $50-100.
http://www.ussealmfg.com/pdfs/US_Seal_Mfg_Catalog_2012.pdf
I couldn't use the 309 because I needed a rating of 300+ psi but       the 309 at 150psi will theoretically get you close to max dive depth.

Jon


On 9/10/2013 2:33 PM, swaters wrote:
It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.?
I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read after being copied over and over.
Thanks,
Scott Waters


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130910/ba3ccac3/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Sep 11 08:30:08 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 05:30:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
In-Reply-To: <it3b547l56nx4e0itm5dmfbo.1378865260317@email.android.com>
References: <it3b547l56nx4e0itm5dmfbo.1378865260317@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1378902608.16112.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
Can you weld a plug in the seat opening and then machine it to the right size.? You can also lay some weld in the opening and machine that to the right size.? It sucks but it is a quick fix.
Hank

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 8:10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help



Jon,
I currently have thre of those US seals. The problem is it is a OD of 1.5" and is to small to fit the collar. I am thinking of some how building a insert that will make the US seal fit. Other than that, I believe I am out of options.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:


Yes, that one plan in particular is pretty nasty.? It's a Crane 8B3, not 883.? The exact wording is as follows:

Crane 8B3 Seal (see Crane DWG CF-SP-44204)
or US Seal PS 309 (see DWG K350-025-3)

The 600 required the same seal (8B3) but they are not manufactured anymore.? I contacted Crane back when I removed the K600 motors because it was pretty obvious they were going to have to be replaced and they were more than willing to manufacture an exact duplicate for $1800 per seal.? The replacement is an 8-1 which was going to cost $1000 per seal.? That's one reason I scrapped the existing motor configuration and decided on fixed minn-kota thrusters.? I purchased four 101# thrust minn-kotas for less than the price of one Crane mechanical seal.

You have another option with the K350 however, US Seal PS-309 (150psi) and they are cheap, between $50-100.
http://www.ussealmfg.com/pdfs/US_Seal_Mfg_Catalog_2012.pdf
I couldn't use the 309 because I needed a rating of 300+ psi but the 309 at 150psi will theoretically get you close to max dive depth.

Jon


On 9/10/2013 2:33 PM, swaters wrote:

It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.?
>I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read after being copied over and over.
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130911/a22d2db3/attachment.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Wed Sep 11 08:39:37 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:39:37 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
In-Reply-To: <1378902608.16112.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <it3b547l56nx4e0itm5dmfbo.1378865260317@email.android.com>
 <1378902608.16112.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ5jJaBRt_B9VrvpuHxVuho=7xyPexNaQ80+c4BgL+xQhA@mail.gmail.com>

Or just turn a plastic cylindrical spacer and epoxy it in?


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:30 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:

> Scott,
> Can you weld a plug in the seat opening and then machine it to the right
> size.  You can also lay some weld in the opening and machine that to the
> right size.  It sucks but it is a quick fix.
> Hank
>
>   *From:* swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2013 8:10:11 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
>
>  Jon,
> I currently have thre of those US seals. The problem is it is a OD of 1.5"
> and is to small to fit the collar. I am thinking of some how building a
> insert that will make the US seal fit. Other than that, I believe I am out
> of options.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Yes, that one plan in particular is pretty nasty.  It's a Crane 8B3, not
> 883.  The exact wording is as follows:
>
> Crane 8B3 Seal (see Crane DWG CF-SP-44204)
> or US Seal PS 309 (see DWG K350-025-3)
>
> The 600 required the same seal (8B3) but they are not manufactured
> anymore.  I contacted Crane back when I removed the K600 motors because it
> was pretty obvious they were going to have to be replaced and they were
> more than willing to manufacture an exact duplicate for $1800 per seal.
> The replacement is an 8-1 which was going to cost $1000 per seal.  That's
> one reason I scrapped the existing motor configuration and decided on fixed
> minn-kota thrusters.  I purchased four 101# thrust minn-kotas for less than
> the price of one Crane mechanical seal.
>
> You have another option with the K350 however, US Seal PS-309 (150psi) and
> they are cheap, between $50-100.
> http://www.*usseal*mfg.com/pdfs/*US*_*Seal*_Mfg_Catalog_2012.pdf
> I couldn't use the 309 because I needed a rating of 300+ psi but the 309
> at 150psi will theoretically get you close to max dive depth.
>
> Jon
>
>
> On 9/10/2013 2:33 PM, swaters wrote:
>
> It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.
> I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read
> after being copied over and over.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130911/ddfac605/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Sep 11 16:34:37 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ5jJaBRt_B9VrvpuHxVuho=7xyPexNaQ80+c4BgL+xQhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <it3b547l56nx4e0itm5dmfbo.1378865260317@email.android.com>
 <1378902608.16112.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CABECYQ5jJaBRt_B9VrvpuHxVuho=7xyPexNaQ80+c4BgL+xQhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1378931677.85031.YahooMailNeo@web120701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

That's better yet


From: Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:39:37 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help



Or just turn a plastic cylindrical spacer and epoxy it in?



On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:30 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Scott,
>Can you weld a plug in the seat opening and then machine it to the right size.? You can also lay some weld in the opening and machine that to the right size.? It sucks but it is a quick fix.
>Hank
>
>
>From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> 
>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 8:10:11 PM 
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
>
>
>
>Jon,
>I currently have thre of those US seals. The problem is it is a OD of 1.5" and is to small to fit the collar. I am thinking of some how building a insert that will make the US seal fit. Other than that, I believe I am out of options.?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
>Yes, that one plan in particular is pretty nasty.? It's a Crane 8B3, not 883.? The exact wording is as follows:
>
>Crane 8B3 Seal (see Crane DWG CF-SP-44204)
>or US Seal PS 309 (see DWG K350-025-3)
>
>The 600 required the same seal (8B3) but they are not manufactured anymore.? I contacted Crane back when I removed the K600 motors because it was pretty obvious they were going to have to be replaced and they were more than willing to manufacture an exact duplicate for $1800 per seal.? The replacement is an 8-1 which was going to cost $1000 per seal.? That's one reason I scrapped the existing motor configuration and decided on fixed minn-kota thrusters.? I purchased four 101# thrust minn-kotas for less than the price of one Crane mechanical seal.
>
>You have another option with the K350 however, US Seal PS-309 (150psi) and they are cheap, between $50-100.
>http://www.ussealmfg.com/pdfs/US_Seal_Mfg_Catalog_2012.pdf
>I couldn't use the 309 because I needed a rating of 300+ psi but the 309 at 150psi will theoretically get you close to max dive depth.
>
>Jon
>
>
>On 9/10/2013 2:33 PM, swaters wrote:
>
>It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.?
>>I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read after being copied over and over.
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130911/0ca0db89/attachment-0001.html>

From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Wed Sep 11 20:59:58 2013
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 12:59:58 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
In-Reply-To: <443ECCF0-C35F-49B7-8095-23E68608A4AA@yahoo.com>
References: <443ECCF0-C35F-49B7-8095-23E68608A4AA@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52311214.05c3440a.04b7.3347@mx.google.com>

I can confirm what Alan says in that seeing Euronaut in the flesh is much
more impressive and the detail of the design and the features that Carsten
has included are very impressive.
I was quite amazed at the detail and the safety and servicing considerations
that have been included.  I am very grateful for the free tour as I think he
could make good money charging for tours of the sub.
Unfortunately I did not meet with Emile due to lack of time and having my
wife with me.  Anyway I plan to go back. Have a great P-subs convention all.
Regards,  Hugh 


-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Alan
Sent: Monday, 9 September 2013 7:32 p.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs

I don't want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days I've
visited Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the Nordic
sub.
Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany, on the
Baltic sea.
Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats visiting.
Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is nothing like
being there. 
The photos & videos don't do the boats justice. When you get inside the
Euronaut you  can appreciate why it took 12 years to build. Carsten spent
about 2 to 3 hrs answering Questions & explaining it's features. One stand
out design feature was the many beer Bottle holders with Irish beer in them.
I think these were the first items he designed in his CAD program & the rest
of the boat evolved around these.
Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the day before.
Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20 minutes by train
from Amsterdam.
He has the Nordic sub moored permanently outside a dive facility on a very
picturesque little Lake. I am going in to a bit of detail here in case
anyone wants to take their wife for a holiday In the Netherlands. Emile
operates the submarine commercially & the dive was certainly the highlight
of my trip so far.  He had a lot of control over the boat & was hovering
inches above Wrecks. The Nordic sub dives slightly lite so it can move off
the bottom without engaging the thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
It was a pleasure meeting up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to
me on the net over the last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
Regards Alan


Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8777 (20130908) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
  

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8781 (20130909) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
  

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8785 (20130910) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
  

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8789 (20130911) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8789 (20130911) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 


From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep 12 08:32:40 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 05:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs
In-Reply-To: <52311214.05c3440a.04b7.3347@mx.google.com>
References: <443ECCF0-C35F-49B7-8095-23E68608A4AA@yahoo.com>
 <52311214.05c3440a.04b7.3347@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1378989160.36862.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hugh,
Can we expect a Euro Sub style submarine project coming out of your shop?
Hank

From: Hugh Fulton <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:59:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs


I can confirm what Alan says in that seeing Euronaut in the flesh is much
more impressive and the detail of the design and the features that Carsten
has included are very impressive.
I was quite amazed at the detail and the safety and servicing considerations
that have been included.? I am very grateful for the free tour as I think he
could make good money charging for tours of the sub.
Unfortunately I did not meet with Emile due to lack of time and having my
wife with me.? Anyway I plan to go back. Have a great P-subs convention all.
Regards,? Hugh 


-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Alan
Sent: Monday, 9 September 2013 7:32 p.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Euro Subs

I don't want to make anyone jealous, but over the last couple of days I've
visited Carsten & the Euronaut & been for a dive with Emile in the Nordic
sub.
Carsten is situated in Rostock, in the North East corner of Germany, on the
Baltic sea.
Very nice tourist destination that has tour boats visiting.
Carsten took me to see Sgt Peppers & the Euronaut. There is nothing like
being there. 
The photos & videos don't do the boats justice. When you get inside the
Euronaut you? can appreciate why it took 12 years to build. Carsten spent
about 2 to 3 hrs answering Questions & explaining it's features. One stand
out design feature was the many beer Bottle holders with Irish beer in them.
I think these were the first items he designed in his CAD program & the rest
of the boat evolved around these.
Coincidentally Hugh, from my city Auckland, had visited the day before.
Two days later I met up with Emile, who is only about 20 minutes by train
from Amsterdam.
He has the Nordic sub moored permanently outside a dive facility on a very
picturesque little Lake. I am going in to a bit of detail here in case
anyone wants to take their wife for a holiday In the Netherlands. Emile
operates the submarine commercially & the dive was certainly the highlight
of my trip so far.? He had a lot of control over the boat & was hovering
inches above Wrecks. The Nordic sub dives slightly lite so it can move off
the bottom without engaging the thrusters & so doesn't disturb the sediment.
It was a pleasure meeting up with Carsten & Emile who have been helpful to
me on the net over the last 4 to 5 years. Many thanks guys.
Regards Alan


Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8777 (20130908) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8781 (20130909) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8785 (20130910) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8789 (20130911) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8789 (20130911) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130912/9c143d29/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Sep 12 09:39:11 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 08:39:11 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help
Message-ID: <swkhtaitixn3x6bocgcw0lin.1378993105591@email.android.com>

I am going to put in either a plastic or brass spacer and epoxy it in. I believe it is the best option.?
Thanks guys,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:Or just turn a plastic cylindrical spacer and epoxy it in?


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:30 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
Can you weld a plug in the seat opening and then machine it to the right size.? You can also lay some weld in the opening and machine that to the right size.? It sucks but it is a quick fix.
Hank

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>

To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 8:10:11 PM

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Help

Jon,
I currently have thre of those US seals. The problem is it is a OD of 1.5" and is to small to fit the collar. I am thinking of some how building a insert that will make the US seal fit. Other than that, I believe I am out of options.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:

Yes, that one plan in particular is pretty nasty.? It's a Crane 8B3, not 883.? The exact wording is as follows:

Crane 8B3 Seal (see Crane DWG CF-SP-44204)
or US Seal PS 309 (see DWG K350-025-3)

The 600 required the same seal (8B3) but they are not manufactured anymore.? I contacted Crane back when I removed the K600 motors because it was pretty obvious they were going to have to be replaced and they were more than willing to manufacture an exact duplicate for $1800 per seal.? The replacement is an 8-1 which was going to cost $1000 per seal.? That's one reason I scrapped the existing motor configuration and decided on fixed minn-kota thrusters.? I purchased four 101# thrust minn-kotas for less than the price of one Crane mechanical seal.

You have another option with the K350 however, US Seal PS-309 (150psi) and they are cheap, between $50-100.
http://www.ussealmfg.com/pdfs/US_Seal_Mfg_Catalog_2012.pdf
I couldn't use the 309 because I needed a rating of 300+ psi but the 309 at 150psi will theoretically get you close to max dive depth.

Jon


On 9/10/2013 2:33 PM, swaters wrote:
It is a type 883, .875 shaft seal -J CRANE Packing Co.?
I think that is right but the kitteredge blue prints are so hard to read after being copied over and over.
Thanks,
Scott Waters



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130912/3b162c81/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 12 14:58:06 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:58:06 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
Message-ID: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>

Hi global Psub network,
Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being 
Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
Regards Alan

Sent from my iPad

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Thu Sep 12 15:19:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 12 Sep 2013 19:19 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de>

http://www.psubs.org/projects/public/123794379354240/viewphoto.cgi/photos/large/p2.jpg

Has anybody heared if he ever finished it? 

Mark was from Hawaii - right?

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130912/21aca054/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Thu Sep 12 15:35:52 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:35:52 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <52321798.1070709@psubs.org>

Those photos were submitted years ago, pre-2000 probably.  We never 
heard back from him.

Jon


On 9/12/2013 3:19 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:
> http://www.psubs.org/projects/public/123794379354240/viewphoto.cgi/photos/large/p2.jpg
>
> Has anybody heared if he ever finished it?
>
> Mark was from Hawaii - right?
>
> Carsten Standfu?
> Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
> Heinrich Reck Str.12A
> 18211 Admannshagen
>
> 0172 8464 420
> WWW.Euronaut.org
> Carsten at euronaut.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130912/c1c4b34b/attachment.html>

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Thu Sep 12 15:49:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 12 Sep 2013 19:49 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <52321798.1070709@psubs.org>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com> 
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de> <52321798.1070709@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <1VKCuV-1ysf1k0@fwd11.t-online.de>

Hi Jon, 

maybe a project needs somebody to finish it.  

Any idea how to research?

vbr Carsten


"Jon Wallace" <jonw at psubs.org> schrieb: 
Those photos were submitted years ago, pre-2000 probably.  We never
heard back from him.

Jon


On 9/12/2013 3:19 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:

http://www.psubs.org/projects/public/123794379354240/viewphoto.cgi/photos/large/p2.jpg

Has anybody heared if he ever finished it? 

Mark was from Hawaii - right?

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org 
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130912/94cf5a9d/attachment.html>

From piolenc at archivale.com  Thu Sep 12 22:57:04 2013
From: piolenc at archivale.com (Marc de Piolenc)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:57:04 +0800
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <52327F00.4000703@archivale.com>

Looks very U-Boot-ish. Who knows, he may at this very moment be 
patrolling the environs of the Hawaiian Islands, looking for invaders to 
sink!

Best,
Marc

On 9/13/2013 3:19 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:
> http://www.psubs.org/projects/public/123794379354240/viewphoto.cgi/photos/large/p2.jpg
>
> Has anybody heared if he ever finished it?
>
> Mark was from Hawaii - right?
>
> Carsten Standfu?
> Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
> Heinrich Reck Str.12A
> 18211 Admannshagen
>
> 0172 8464 420
> WWW.Euronaut.org
> Carsten at euronaut.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

From antoine.delafargue at gmail.com  Fri Sep 13 02:19:06 2013
From: antoine.delafargue at gmail.com (Antoine Delafargue)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 07:19:06 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
In-Reply-To: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+v+SjpSTAjymtML9svStyic26dUi90NHB=gc3EYxezLbdujVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Alan,

I have no contact there. If you want to contact them directly, you may also
try the Ifremer in Toulon, which is where I think they usually keep the
deep diving subs (Nautile, Victor) and ROVs.
If you happen to travel near Cherbourg in Normandy, the "Cit? de la Mer"
hosts several subs, including what is I believe the largest visit-able sub
in the world, a decommissioned French nuclear sub in dry dock, quite cool.

regards,

Antoine
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi global Psub network,
> Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
> Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being
> Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
> Regards Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/f0361802/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 13 03:44:09 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:44:09 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
In-Reply-To: <CA+v+SjpSTAjymtML9svStyic26dUi90NHB=gc3EYxezLbdujVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <CA+v+SjpSTAjymtML9svStyic26dUi90NHB=gc3EYxezLbdujVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <126DFBA6-7BDC-4EBE-9DC4-1E99005B93BF@yahoo.com>

Thanks Antoine,
Toulon is not too far away, I might try & get there.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 13/09/2013, at 8:19 AM, Antoine Delafargue <antoine.delafargue at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Alan,
>  
> I have no contact there. If you want to contact them directly, you may also try the Ifremer in Toulon, which is where I think they usually keep the deep diving subs (Nautile, Victor) and ROVs. 
> If you happen to travel near Cherbourg in Normandy, the "Cit? de la Mer" hosts several subs, including what is I believe the largest visit-able sub in the world, a decommissioned French nuclear sub in dry dock, quite cool.
>  
> regards,
>  
> Antoine
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi global Psub network,
>> Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
>> Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being
>> Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
>> Regards Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/fa61e23a/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 13 08:06:13 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 05:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
In-Reply-To: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379073973.15150.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
?
If I remember correctly, Busby once told me that the Deep Star 4000 was sitting in a yard at Comex with the hatch open and half full of water rusting away. That would have been around 1988. I'm curious to know if that is still the case.
?
Greg
?
?
?
?


________________________________
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:58 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers


Hi global Psub network,
Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being 
Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
Regards Alan

Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/1fb0332f/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Fri Sep 13 09:13:28 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:13:28 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
In-Reply-To: <1379073973.15150.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1379073973.15150.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UB2g=BGV15NQ3C-pjLD6iG7q3Ns4wWhwnqqktt6K2staA@mail.gmail.com>

Definitly go here Alan if your near Cherbourg.

http://www.citedelamer.com/en/exhibition-of-la-cite-de-la-mer/the-great-gallery-of-men-and-machines-of-la-cite-de-la-mer/

On 13 September 2013 13:06, greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  Alan,
>
> If I remember correctly, Busby once told me that the Deep Star 4000 was
> sitting in a yard at Comex with the hatch open and half full of water
> rusting away. That would have been around 1988. I'm curious to know if
> that is still the case.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>   *From:* Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:58 PM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
>
> Hi global Psub network,
> Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
> Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being
> Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
> Regards Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/27438dfe/attachment.html>

From mholt at ohiohills.com  Fri Sep 13 09:43:35 2013
From: mholt at ohiohills.com (Michael Holt)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:43:35 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <52331687.8040908@ohiohills.com>

On 9/12/2013 3:19 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:
> http://www.psubs.org/projects/public/123794379354240/viewphoto.cgi/photos/large/p2.jpg
>
> Has anybody heared if he ever finished it?
I sent him e-mail in about 2006,and never got a reply.


Mike
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/75644a94/attachment.html>

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Fri Sep 13 11:33:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 13 Sep 2013 15:33 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <52331687.8040908@ohiohills.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com> 
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de> 
 <52331687.8040908@ohiohills.com>
Message-ID: <1VKVNp-0GnuJE0@fwd01.t-online.de>

Do you still have the email adress? vbr Carsten  

"Michael Holt" <mholt at ohiohills.com> schrieb: 
On 9/12/2013 3:19 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:

http://www.psubs.org/projects/public/123794379354240/viewphoto.cgi/photos/large/p2.jpg

Has anybody heared if he ever finished it? 

I sent him e-mail in about 2006, and never got a reply.


Mike

 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/d1db4757/attachment.html>

From mholt at ohiohills.com  Fri Sep 13 11:50:58 2013
From: mholt at ohiohills.com (Michael Holt)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:50:58 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <1VKVNp-0GnuJE0@fwd01.t-online.de>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de> <52331687.8040908@ohiohills.com>
 <1VKVNp-0GnuJE0@fwd01.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <CADotVH3it_N1bgQKq9Riu=aMJrfPhYd+NcXtTctpaLAyYXcTkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:33 AM, <MerlinSub at t-online.de> wrote:

> **
> Do you still have the email adress? vbr Carsten
>

I'll have to look around.  I got his address from the PSUBS page at that
time.


Mike
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/7e8da4f9/attachment.html>

From mholt at ohiohills.com  Fri Sep 13 12:20:25 2013
From: mholt at ohiohills.com (Michael Holt)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:20:25 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mama and Papa
In-Reply-To: <1VKVNp-0GnuJE0@fwd01.t-online.de>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de> <52331687.8040908@ohiohills.com>
 <1VKVNp-0GnuJE0@fwd01.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <52333B49.1050706@ohiohills.com>

On 9/13/2013 11:33 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:
> E-Mail Software 6.0 Do you still have the email adress? 
I didn't find the address.  Has it been removed from PSUBS?


Mike
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/ff0fb698/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 13 13:40:03 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:40:03 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
In-Reply-To: <1379073973.15150.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1379073973.15150.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9B0BC2FE-CF9B-40DE-9631-F851D511D84C@yahoo.com>

Hi Geg,
I'm getting out of here on the next train, so won,t be having a look.
 Today was an absolute disaster.
Went to the address of a sub manufacturer & they weren't there.
There were supposed to be 3 in the vicinity.
Navigating with GPS on my Ipad & it ran out of juice. 
First time driving a car on the right hand side of the road & hit the curve, whacked the wing mirror
Pulled out on people etc. Got to within 20 yards of the rental car company on my return, & couldn't go down there one way road. It took me another 2 hrs driving to find my way back.
Could go on, but this is a submarine forum. 
Cheers Alan



Sent from my iPad

On 13/09/2013, at 2:06 PM, greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Alan,
>  
> If I remember correctly, Busby once told me that the Deep Star 4000 was sitting in a yard at Comex with the hatch open and half full of water rusting away. That would have been around 1988. I'm curious to know if that is still the case.
>  
> Greg
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:58 PM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
> 
> Hi global Psub network,
> Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
> Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being 
> Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
> Regards Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/80de1182/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Sep 13 14:07:53 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:07:53 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
Message-ID: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>

Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass. Help?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/d5ca1410/attachment.html>

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Fri Sep 13 14:24:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 13 Sep 2013 18:24 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>

 
http://www.svb24.com/en/sikaflex-295-uv-adhesive-for-plastic-window-panes.html

vbr carsten 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard
everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of
sikaflex and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with
plexiglass. Help?
Thanks,
Scott Waters








Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/7801e819/attachment.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 13 15:39:44 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
In-Reply-To: <9B0BC2FE-CF9B-40DE-9631-F851D511D84C@yahoo.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1379073973.15150.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <9B0BC2FE-CF9B-40DE-9631-F851D511D84C@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379101184.90339.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Sorry to hear about all that. I hope the rest of your trip goes smoothly.
?
Greg
?
?
?
?

________________________________
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers



Hi Geg,
I'm getting out of here on the next train, so won,t be having a look.
?Today was an absolute disaster.
Went to the address of a sub manufacturer & they weren't there.
There were supposed to be 3 in the vicinity.
Navigating with GPS on my Ipad & it ran out of juice.?
First time driving a car on the right hand side of the road & hit the curve, whacked the wing mirror
Pulled out on people etc. Got to within 20 yards of the rental car company on my return, & couldn't go down there one?way road. It took me another 2 hrs driving to find my way back.
Could go on, but this is a submarine forum.?
Cheers Alan



Sent from my iPad

On 13/09/2013, at 2:06 PM, greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:


Alan,
>?
>If I remember correctly, Busby once told me that the Deep Star 4000 was sitting in a yard at Comex with the hatch open and half full of water rusting away. That would have been around 1988. I'm curious to know if that is still the case.
>?
>Greg
>?
>?
>?
>?
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:58 PM
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
>
>
>Hi global Psub network,
>Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
>Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being 
>Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
>Regards Alan
>
>Sent from my iPad
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/525a7e0f/attachment-0001.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 13 16:05:49 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

?
Just a short commercial about 295 UV-
?
The first forward dome in my sub was bedded in 5200 urethane by 3m (which is advertised as a marine sealant and used for acrylic ports on boats). About two years went by and I noticed that the seal looked different. So I removed the retainer and the dome literally fell out in my hands!? Wasn't expecting that! Luckily I caught it before it hit the ground. The surface of the 5200 was perfectly smooth but it had lost all adhesion to the acrylic. It looked like a rubber gasket.
?
I then removed all of the 5200 and re installed the dome with 295-UV (and the black primer that goes with it).
The dome spent the next ten years installed with lots of dives and no problems.
Eventually, because of its age, I decided to make a new one to replace it (although it still looked like new). I tried to push the old dome out with a 4 x 4 and a hydraulic jack from the inside. It wouldn't even budge. I pushed it so hard that the 4 x 4 was starting to split! The dome wasn't even phased! After a couple of hours I finally took out the recipro saw and cut the dome into radiating pieces to try to pry them out one at a time. Using a crowbar, the acrylic was breaking into pieces but?broken shards were?still stuck?the sub! It took quite a few hours to remove the sikaflex- mostly with wood chisels (heated with a torch) and a wire wheel.
?
So, all I can say is that if you install your domes or ports with 295-UV those ports are NOT coming out without a lot of effort!
?
Greg
?
?


________________________________
From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing



? http://www.svb24.com/en/sikaflex-295-uv-adhesive-for-plastic-window-panes.html

vbr carsten 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass. Help?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/9b59ad20/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Sep 13 16:36:11 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:36:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>
 <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379104571.49926.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Greg,
Good argument for gaskets.? I like gaskets!
Hank

From: greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:05:49 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing



?
Just a short commercial about 295 UV-
?
The first forward dome in my sub was bedded in 5200 urethane by 3m (which is advertised as a marine sealant and used for acrylic ports on boats). About two years went by and I noticed that the seal looked different. So I removed the retainer and the dome literally fell out in my hands!? Wasn't expecting that! Luckily I caught it before it hit the ground. The surface of the 5200 was perfectly smooth but it had lost all adhesion to the acrylic. It looked like a rubber gasket.
?
I then removed all of the 5200 and re installed the dome with 295-UV (and the black primer that goes with it).
The dome spent the next ten years installed with lots of dives and no problems.
Eventually, because of its age, I decided to make a new one to replace it (although it still looked like new). I tried to push the old dome out with a 4 x 4 and a hydraulic jack from the inside. It wouldn't even budge. I pushed it so hard that the 4 x 4 was starting to split! The dome wasn't even phased! After a couple of hours I finally took out the recipro saw and cut the dome into radiating pieces to try to pry them out one at a time. Using a crowbar, the acrylic was breaking into pieces but?broken shards were?still stuck?the sub! It took quite a few hours to remove the sikaflex- mostly with wood chisels (heated with a torch) and a wire wheel.
?
So, all I can say is that if you install your domes or ports with 295-UV those ports are NOT coming out without a lot of effort!
?
Greg
?
?

From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing



? http://www.svb24.com/en/sikaflex-295-uv-adhesive-for-plastic-window-panes.html

vbr carsten 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass. Help?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130913/110a1455/attachment.html>

From kocpnt at tds.net  Sat Sep 14 07:52:22 2013
From: kocpnt at tds.net (kocpnt tds.net)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:52:22 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

I used Sikaflex 295UV as reccomended by Greg Cotrell, who made my large window.

I bought mine at Endries Fastener and Supply in Brillion, WIsconsin.

It is quite expensive. I'm sure you can find it closer to home.
Depending how much you need I have several tupes left from
reinstalling my large window.

I was only able to buy a full case.

If you are interested, I'll check up on the price next week and sell
to you for what I paid plus shipping.

Best Regards,

Jim K

On 9/13/13, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard
> everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex
> and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass.
> Help?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


From groplias2 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 14 10:33:31 2013
From: groplias2 at yahoo.com (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 15:33:31 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
In-Reply-To: <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Hello 

I need some help. I am seaching some information about lateral tilting thrusters as main propulsion for a submarine. Most of the newer subs have fixed vertical or horizantal thrusters. So there must be a big practical reason.? I asume it can be because problems with presure compensating of the motor. If this wasn?t a problem which other problems will have to instal lateral tilting thrusters?
I thanks in advance for any information, ideas ore hints.
Best wishes
Juergen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130914/84af2b28/attachment.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Sat Sep 14 11:16:43 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 11:16:43 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
In-Reply-To: <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9164633E-FEB0-468F-B42C-3D79372F01F1@gmail.com>

Hi Juergen,

Unless you want to put actuators on the rotating side thrusters, which adds some complexity, K style rotating thrusters take up the pilot's two hands. In addition if fixed side thrusters are angled outwards, you can run them in opposition and you gain a degree of motion the K configuration doesn't have, crabbing sideways. Plus, fixed thrusters means fewer moving parts.

I don't see any difficulty compensating K style thrusters, in fact mine are compensated. But for all the above reasons, my next sub has fixed thrusters.

Best,

Alec



On Sep 14, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz <groplias2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello 
> I need some help. I am seaching some information about lateral tilting thrusters as main propulsion for a submarine. Most of the newer subs have fixed vertical or horizantal thrusters. So there must be a big practical reason.  I asume it can be because problems with presure compensating of the motor. If this wasn?t a problem which other problems will have to instal lateral tilting thrusters?
> I thanks in advance for any information, ideas ore hints.
> Best wishes
> Juergen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130914/f2a42a86/attachment.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Sat Sep 14 11:38:44 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 11:38:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
In-Reply-To: <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D07F77A19CEC1E-CD0-1B90C@webmail-vm002.sysops.aol.com>


I don't condemn or recommend side thrusters, but I will give you a little experience and rumor based data to consider.

Side thrusters require durable and robust motor controllers and (preferably) a tilting control NOT requiring both hands.  Long transects either on the surface or underwater are difficult without some kind of autopilot or at least a trim tab/rudder aft.. If you lose power to one of them (short circuit, for instance) then you are reduced to strictly rotary steerageway (as in, running around in circles). Also, you will have no lateral capability with two thrusters on the centerline.

The Pisces class from Hyco used side thrusters successfully for many years, but were (and are) limited in close maneuvering as you have to back and fill rather than move laterally, as there are no maneuvering thrusters beyond the side units. This can be ameliorated to a great extent on relatively lightweight vehicles by the judicious use of vectored side thrusters (as in DW-2000 design). Four fixed thrusters, two aft and two in the aforementioned vectoring position allow very good maneuverability with the DWs.

Perry never used side thrusters as primaries save on the ARMs bells and the old Opsub (which was an early boat built to order for Ocean Systems and never, as far as anyone knows, actually put into service in the oil fields). Instead, they used pivoting centerline thrusters on the 18 series, which worked pretty well.

Other builders from the early days used side thrusters (Deepstar, Deep Quest, et al) with varying degrees of success. It might be instructive to remember that the Deepstar 4000 made only a very few hundred dives and was considered a limited success based on lack of payload and maneuvering/maintenance issues. Cool looking though, to be sure.

As to compensation, all the comp thrusters I have dealt with are compensated at the unit itself, so this was never a problem. 

Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Guerrero Kommritz <groplias2 at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Sep 14, 2013 7:34 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters



Hello 

I need some help. I am seaching some information about lateral tilting thrusters as main propulsion for a submarine. Most of the newer subs have fixed vertical or horizantal thrusters. So there must be a big practical reason.  I asume it can be because problems with presure compensating of the motor. If this wasn?t a problem which other problems will have to instal lateral tilting thrusters?
I thanks in advance for any information, ideas ore hints.
Best wishes
Juergen



 
 
  


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130914/0cb585ac/attachment.html>

From phil at philnuytten.com  Sat Sep  7 13:31:10 2013
From: phil at philnuytten.com (Phil Nuytten)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 10:31:10 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
In-Reply-To: <8D07F77A19CEC1E-CD0-1B90C@webmail-vm002.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
 <8D07F77A19CEC1E-CD0-1B90C@webmail-vm002.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <352161339E94462AB899EA09647D555E@PhillPC>

Hi, Guys
As a follow-up to Vance?s comments (which I fully agree with) you may be interested to know how we position thrusters on our new and much heavier Dual DeepWorker 3000. This 3000 foot (actually 3400 ft.) version of our Dual DeepWorker 2000 uses 6 thrusters ? two verticals , (straight up and down, fore and aft on centerline, not in the vectored position of the much lighter single DeepWorker) , two aft horizontals and and two forward horizontals which are angled 15 degrees off the hull parallel plane to allow tight turns and very precise lateral  maneuvering  control while working with the dual manipulators on bottom.
The first of the DDW3000?s finished certification sea-trials day before yesterday and will be shipped out next week ? now we have seven more to build for our current contract and a lot of interest in follow-up builds. I got to dive the new dual for the first time last Thursday ? pretty slick! 
The foregoing might be plainer if I post a couple of pics of the DDW3000.
Phil
From: vbra676539 at aol.com 
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 8:38 AM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters

I don't condemn or recommend side thrusters, but I will give you a little experience and rumor based data to consider.

Side thrusters require durable and robust motor controllers and (preferably) a tilting control NOT requiring both hands.  Long transects either on the surface or underwater are difficult without some kind of autopilot or at least a trim tab/rudder aft.. If you lose power to one of them (short circuit, for instance) then you are reduced to strictly rotary steerageway (as in, running around in circles). Also, you will have no lateral capability with two thrusters on the centerline.

The Pisces class from Hyco used side thrusters successfully for many years, but were (and are) limited in close maneuvering as you have to back and fill rather than move laterally, as there are no maneuvering thrusters beyond the side units. This can be ameliorated to a great extent on relatively lightweight vehicles by the judicious use of vectored side thrusters (as in DW-2000 design). Four fixed thrusters, two aft and two in the aforementioned vectoring position allow very good maneuverability with the DWs.

Perry never used side thrusters as primaries save on the ARMs bells and the old Opsub (which was an early boat built to order for Ocean Systems and never, as far as anyone knows, actually put into service in the oil fields). Instead, they used pivoting centerline thrusters on the 18 series, which worked pretty well.

Other builders from the early days used side thrusters (Deepstar, Deep Quest, et al) with varying degrees of success. It might be instructive to remember that the Deepstar 4000 made only a very few hundred dives and was considered a limited success based on lack of payload and maneuvering/maintenance issues. Cool looking though, to be sure.

As to compensation, all the comp thrusters I have dealt with are compensated at the unit itself, so this was never a problem. 

Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Guerrero Kommritz <groplias2 at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Sep 14, 2013 7:34 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters


Hello 

I need some help. I am seaching some information about lateral tilting thrusters as main propulsion for a submarine. Most of the newer subs have fixed vertical or horizantal thrusters. So there must be a big practical reason.  I asume it can be because problems with presure compensating of the motor. If this wasn?t a problem which other problems will have to instal lateral tilting thrusters?
I thanks in advance for any information, ideas ore hints.
Best wishes
Juergen


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130907/f9b2a374/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 14 14:18:56 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 20:18:56 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
In-Reply-To: <352161339E94462AB899EA09647D555E@PhillPC>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
 <8D07F77A19CEC1E-CD0-1B90C@webmail-vm002.sysops.aol.com>
 <352161339E94462AB899EA09647D555E@PhillPC>
Message-ID: <F57EA8FA-5B6B-4BB7-9BA7-486507F1F11D@yahoo.com>

Forget the pictures Phil, we have a conference in Florida you could bring it to.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 7/09/2013, at 7:31 PM, "Phil Nuytten" <phil at philnuytten.com> wrote:

> Hi, Guys
> As a follow-up to Vance?s comments (which I fully agree with) you may be interested to know how we position thrusters on our new and much heavier Dual DeepWorker 3000. This 3000 foot (actually 3400 ft.) version of our Dual DeepWorker 2000 uses 6 thrusters ? two verticals , (straight up and down, fore and aft on centerline, not in the vectored position of the much lighter single DeepWorker) ,  two aft horizontals and and two forward horizontals which are angled 15 degrees off the hull parallel plane to allow tight turns and very precise lateral  maneuvering  control while working with the dual manipulators on bottom.
> The first of the DDW3000?s finished certification sea-trials day before yesterday and will be shipped out next week ? now we have seven more to build for our current contract and a lot of interest in follow-up builds. I got to dive the new dual for the first time last Thursday ? pretty slick!
> The foregoing might be plainer if I post a couple of pics of the DDW3000.
> Phil
>  
>  
> From: vbra676539 at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 8:38 AM
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
>  
> I don't condemn or recommend side thrusters, but I will give you a little experience and rumor based data to consider.
>  
> Side thrusters require durable and robust motor controllers and (preferably) a tilting control NOT requiring both hands.  Long transects either on the surface or underwater are difficult without some kind of autopilot or at least a trim tab/rudder aft.. If you lose power to one of them (short circuit, for instance) then you are reduced to strictly rotary steerageway (as in, running around in circles). Also, you will have no lateral capability with two thrusters on the centerline.
>  
> The Pisces class from Hyco used side thrusters successfully for many years, but were (and are) limited in close maneuvering as you have to back and fill rather than move laterally, as there are no maneuvering thrusters beyond the side units. This can be ameliorated to a great extent on relatively lightweight vehicles by the judicious use of vectored side thrusters (as in DW-2000 design). Four fixed thrusters, two aft and two in the aforementioned vectoring position allow very good maneuverability with the DWs.
>  
> Perry never used side thrusters as primaries save on the ARMs bells and the old Opsub (which was an early boat built to order for Ocean Systems and never, as far as anyone knows, actually put into service in the oil fields). Instead, they used pivoting centerline thrusters on the 18 series, which worked pretty well.
>  
> Other builders from the early days used side thrusters (Deepstar, Deep Quest, et al) with varying degrees of success. It might be instructive to remember that the Deepstar 4000 made only a very few hundred dives and was considered a limited success based on lack of payload and maneuvering/maintenance issues. Cool looking though, to be sure.
>  
> As to compensation, all the comp thrusters I have dealt with are compensated at the unit itself, so this was never a problem.
>  
> Vance
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Guerrero Kommritz <groplias2 at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 14, 2013 7:34 am
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
> 
> Hello 
> I need some help. I am seaching some information about lateral tilting thrusters as main propulsion for a submarine. Most of the newer subs have fixed vertical or horizantal thrusters. So there must be a big practical reason.  I asume it can be because problems with presure compensating of the motor. If this wasn?t a problem which other problems will have to instal lateral tilting thrusters?
> I thanks in advance for any information, ideas ore hints.
> Best wishes
> Juergen
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130914/fda910cf/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 14 16:00:13 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 22:00:13 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UB2g=BGV15NQ3C-pjLD6iG7q3Ns4wWhwnqqktt6K2staA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com>
 <1379073973.15150.YahooMailNeo@web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHpB=UB2g=BGV15NQ3C-pjLD6iG7q3Ns4wWhwnqqktt6K2staA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F15E1E8D-21E1-427E-9EE1-6AD66BD25623@yahoo.com>

Thanks James, 
That might be my next target. I think I could spend all day there.
Just found the post in my spam. Dam computer, it sends my posts there too.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 13/09/2013, at 3:13 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:

> Definitly go here Alan if your near Cherbourg.
>  
> http://www.citedelamer.com/en/exhibition-of-la-cite-de-la-mer/the-great-gallery-of-men-and-machines-of-la-cite-de-la-mer/
> 
> On 13 September 2013 13:06, greg cottrell <jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Alan,
>>  
>> If I remember correctly, Busby once told me that the Deep Star 4000 was sitting in a yard at Comex with the hatch open and half full of water rusting away. That would have been around 1988. I'm curious to know if that is still the case.
>>  
>> Greg
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:58 PM
>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] French submersible manufacturers
>> 
>> Hi global Psub network,
>> Just wondering if anyone has any connections with either Comex or
>> Personal submarine industries, which are both showing on the net as being 
>> Located in Marseille. Would like to visit them while I'm here.
>> Regards Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130914/9e26fa58/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Sat Sep 14 18:41:20 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:41:20 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
In-Reply-To: <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5234E610.6030800@psubs.org>


Juergen, I will just add that in the K600 I found the forward thruster 
handles very awkwardly placed and difficult to turn upwards because they 
were not balanced laterally.  Holding the motor handles inside required 
leaning forward which made looking out the conning tower windows 
difficult.  With fixed motors and smart controllers you get tractor 
movement and that really appealed to me.

Jon


On 9/14/2013 10:33 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz wrote:
> Hello
> I need some help. I am seaching some information about lateral tilting 
> thrusters as main propulsion for a submarine. Most of the newer subs 
> have fixed vertical or horizantal thrusters. So there must be a big 
> practical reason.  I asume it can be because problems with presure 
> compensating of the motor. If this wasn?t a problem which other 
> problems will have to instal lateral tilting thrusters?
> I thanks in advance for any information, ideas ore hints.
> Best wishes
> Juergen
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130914/c00799db/attachment-0001.html>

From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Sat Sep 14 19:26:55 2013
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:26:55 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>
 <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5234f0c5.c279420a.0340.50ef@mx.google.com>

Greg,  I was under the impression that flat viewports are best to have the
sealant between the gasket and the steel seat rather than on the acrylic.
Is this acceptable just on the one side.  Would this prevent having to
demolish the viewport in your case.  

Or did you have just the UV sealant and no gasket?  I am concerned at what I
have done which was on the gasket only.  Regards,  Hugh

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of greg cottrell
Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 8:06 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing

 

 

Just a short commercial about 295 UV-

 

The first forward dome in my sub was bedded in 5200 urethane by 3m (which is
advertised as a marine sealant and used for acrylic ports on boats). About
two years went by and I noticed that the seal looked different. So I removed
the retainer and the dome literally fell out in my hands!  Wasn't expecting
that! Luckily I caught it before it hit the ground. The surface of the 5200
was perfectly smooth but it had lost all adhesion to the acrylic. It looked
like a rubber gasket.

 

I then removed all of the 5200 and re installed the dome with 295-UV (and
the black primer that goes with it).

The dome spent the next ten years installed with lots of dives and no
problems.

Eventually, because of its age, I decided to make a new one to replace it
(although it still looked like new). I tried to push the old dome out with a
4 x 4 and a hydraulic jack from the inside. It wouldn't even budge. I pushed
it so hard that the 4 x 4 was starting to split! The dome wasn't even
phased! After a couple of hours I finally took out the recipro saw and cut
the dome into radiating pieces to try to pry them out one at a time. Using a
crowbar, the acrylic was breaking into pieces but broken shards were still
stuck the sub! It took quite a few hours to remove the sikaflex- mostly with
wood chisels (heated with a torch) and a wire wheel.

 

So, all I can say is that if you install your domes or ports with 295-UV
those ports are NOT coming out without a lot of effort!

 

Greg

 

 

 

From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing

 

 
http://www.svb24.com/en/sikaflex-295-uv-adhesive-for-plastic-window-panes.ht
ml

vbr carsten 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 

Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard
everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex
and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass.
Help?

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8796 (20130913) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/b702c101/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Sep 14 19:35:50 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 16:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <5234f0c5.c279420a.0340.50ef@mx.google.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>
 <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5234f0c5.c279420a.0340.50ef@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1379201750.25341.YahooMailNeo@web120706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hugh,
Did you buy new viewports or did you test the origionals.
Hank

From: Hugh Fulton <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 5:26:55 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing



Greg,? I was under the impression that flat viewports are best to have the sealant between the gasket and the steel seat rather than on the acrylic.? Is this acceptable just on the one side.? Would this prevent having to demolish the viewport in your case.? 
Or did you have just the UV sealant and no gasket?? I am concerned at what I have done which was on the gasket only.? Regards,? Hugh
?
From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of greg cottrell
Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 8:06 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
?
?
Just a short commercial about 295 UV-
?
The first forward dome in my sub was bedded in 5200 urethane by 3m (which is advertised as a marine sealant and used for acrylic ports on boats). About two years went by and I noticed that the seal looked different. So I removed the retainer and the dome literally fell out in my hands!? Wasn't expecting that! Luckily I caught it before it hit the ground. The surface of the 5200 was perfectly smooth but it had lost all adhesion to the acrylic. It looked like a rubber gasket.
?
I then removed all of the 5200 and re installed the dome with 295-UV (and the black primer that goes with it).
The dome spent the next ten years installed with lots of dives and no problems.
Eventually, because of its age, I decided to make a new one to replace it (although it still looked like new). I tried to push the old dome out with a 4 x 4 and a hydraulic jack from the inside. It wouldn't even budge. I pushed it so hard that the 4 x 4 was starting to split! The dome wasn't even phased! After a couple of hours I finally took out the recipro saw and cut the dome into radiating pieces to try to pry them out one at a time. Using a crowbar, the acrylic was breaking into pieces but?broken shards were?still stuck?the sub! It took quite a few hours to remove the sikaflex- mostly with wood chisels (heated with a torch) and a wire wheel.
?
So, all I can say is that if you install your domes or ports with 295-UV those ports are NOT coming out without a lot of effort!
?
Greg
?
?
?
From:"MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
?
?http://www.svb24.com/en/sikaflex-295-uv-adhesive-for-plastic-window-panes.html

vbr carsten 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass. Help?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
http://www.euronaut.org/
Carsten at euronaut.org

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8796 (20130913) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130914/605262f9/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 11:19:46 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 10:19:46 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/382cbd3b/attachment.html>

From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sun Sep 15 11:53:02 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 11:53:02 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnLS=ik3_0iTMP8fTYw=JifoPfmacpvg3U=12dQ+68dm6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott. Congratulations on your initial launch of Trustworthy! Glad to
hear that you have no leaking. Out of curiosity, were you able to get an
accurate dry weight yet? This would give you at least some idea of where to
start with ballasting calculations. As you mention, if your scuba tanks are
mounted exteriorly you would want to subtract their majority from your
weight-in-water. what was the status of the variable tank during testing (%
full)? ~ Douglas S.


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with
> no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did
> have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area
> clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was
> not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so.
> The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up
> putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it
> still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down.
> After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the
> outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so
> that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the
> extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is
> the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to
> easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can
> figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way.
> Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the
> only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/aad7f646/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Sun Sep 15 12:15:11 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:15:11 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5235DD0F.8040707@psubs.org>


You'll need to definitively determine if the ballast tanks are venting 
all the way or not.  Have a diver do a visual check. Assuming the tanks 
are venting properly there's nothing wrong, you just haven't added 
enough ballast.  It sounds like you need to add weight equal to that of 
the two divers to get you where you want to be.  My rough calculation of 
the K350 hull, conning tower, and battery pod 1-ATM shells show a 
displacement of 3900 pounds and buoyancy equal to 2429 pounds.  Now you 
have to subtract the weight of all interior parts (ribs, welds, 
batteries, equipment) and then calculate the buoyancy of any outside 
parts (lift rings, valves, hangers, etc) most of which will probably be 
negative and deduct from total buoyancy.  Everything matters so it can 
be time consuming.

The alternative is to do just what you have done, put it in for a water 
test and add weight until it is close to neutral.  The 600 has four 
LARGE lead weights formed to the shape of the hull placed between 
various ribs.  I estimate the total to be close to 300 pounds so the 
fact that you had to add as much weight does not surprise me.

Jon


On 9/15/2013 11:19 AM, swaters wrote:
> Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry 
> with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three 
> hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the 
> grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy 
> fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we 
> both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total 
> (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting 
> weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. 
> I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my 
> head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 
> 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due 
> for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight 
> of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the 
> tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to 
> easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing 
> I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the 
> way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so 
> that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any 
> thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/6bdac434/attachment.html>

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Sun Sep 15 12:24:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 15 Sep 2013 16:24 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1VLF8u-0B6pVo0@fwd18.t-online.de>

Hi Scott, with a boat first launch and the overall weight 
much to light the tanks can not vent complete, 
the will stay partly over the waterline..

By the way - It is good that the boat is to light and not to heavy... 
You have just add lead or steel, old batteries or rocks. 
My subs were all to light on the first launch. 

Gratulations! 

vbr Carsten


"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with
no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did
have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt
area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I
had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175
pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as
kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200
pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives
stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I
decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative
boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the
extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the
divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting
well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2
" line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the
ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is
built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of
about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters








Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/0712839e/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Sep 15 13:01:24 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 10:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <1VLF8u-0B6pVo0@fwd18.t-online.de>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
 <1VLF8u-0B6pVo0@fwd18.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1379264484.16982.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Well done Scott,
Now throw the calculator in the garbage can and jut keep adding weight.? This always happens to me, better you are to light.? We have a bunch of weights in the boat ready to go.? We even have had to go to shore for rocks.? :)

From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:24:00 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch



Hi Scott, with a boat first launch and the overall weight?
much to light the tanks can not vent complete, 
the will stay partly over the waterline..

By the way - It is good that the boat is to light and not to heavy... 
You have just add lead or steel, old batteries or rocks. 
My subs were all to light on the first launch. 

Gratulations! 

vbr Carsten


"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It
 seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/695e0d2b/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 15 15:09:07 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 21:09:07 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <1379264484.16982.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
 <1VLF8u-0B6pVo0@fwd18.t-online.de>
 <1379264484.16982.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2C554E9E-4E4E-45E1-B902-D49F73C27AFB@yahoo.com>

Congratulations Scott,
I was also too light also.
If the ballast tanks aren't venting fully for some reason, you could check that by  adding weight to get neutrally buoyant & diving to a shallow depth. If there is still a lot of air in the tanks it will
Compress & make you heavy.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 15/09/2013, at 7:01 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Well done Scott,
> Now throw the calculator in the garbage can and jut keep adding weight.  This always happens to me, better you are to light.  We have a bunch of weights in the boat ready to go.  We even have had to go to shore for rocks.  :)
> 
> From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:24:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
> 
> Hi Scott, with a boat first launch and the overall weight 
> much to light the tanks can not vent complete, 
> the will stay partly over the waterline..
> 
> By the way - It is good that the boat is to light and not to heavy... 
> You have just add lead or steel, old batteries or rocks. 
> My subs were all to light on the first launch. 
> 
> Gratulations! 
> 
> vbr Carsten
> 
> 
> "swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb:
> Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>  
> 
> -- 
> 
> Carsten Standfu?
> Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
> Heinrich Reck Str.12A
> 18211 Admannshagen
> 
> 0172 8464 420
> WWW.Euronaut.org
> Carsten at euronaut.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/bcb3aa9e/attachment.html>

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Sun Sep 15 16:33:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 15 Sep 2013 20:33 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1VLJ1Q-0DzqLo0@fwd02.t-online.de>

dive was in Saltwater? (density 1.025) 

vbr carsten  

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with
no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did
have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt
area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I
had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175
pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as
kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200
pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives
stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I
decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative
boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the
extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the
divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting
well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2
" line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the
ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is
built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of
about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters








Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/636aa315/attachment.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Sun Sep 15 16:54:52 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 16:54:52 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ5cWdMXRb9RM3vXhd50SDdrR3+2dXJWwfQREeHwOnKenA@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports to
testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like crazy
getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can see in the
responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall Dan H. or Harold
Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 400 lbs of lead in the
cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need a lot more (3% of your
displacement more).

I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, there's
nothing like a shiny new boat.


Best,

Alec


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with
> no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did
> have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area
> clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was
> not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so.
> The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up
> putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it
> still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down.
> After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the
> outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so
> that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the
> extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is
> the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to
> easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can
> figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way.
> Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the
> only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/d2822e66/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 17:21:53 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 16:21:53 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>

Cool. Thanks guys. I got some good ides how to correct the problem and still not clutter the cabin. I am going to attach plates to my skids. My "T" skid design would work perfectly for this. I am also thinking of useing some lead shot under the floor boards.?
Alec, I was up all night before the launch putting finishing touches on it. We have been working like crazy to make sure it is ready to go.?
It was covered by the Kansas first news and several news papers too. So psubs got some publicity.?
Thanks guys,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports to testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like crazy getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can see in the responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall Dan H. or Harold Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 400 lbs of lead in the cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need a lot more (3% of your displacement more).

I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, there's nothing like a shiny new boat.?


Best,

Alec


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/9521d956/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 17:33:28 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 16:33:28 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <9j43xbk8ndt0ybuu405meex7.1379280310999@email.android.com>

I also plan to rip out the 1/2" lines and go with 3/4" lines for the ballast vents. I want to avoid hydro locking and have the ability to vent quicker.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneMerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:dive was in Saltwater??(density 1.025) 

vbr carsten? 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb:
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/bdd9653e/attachment.html>

From freepetesub at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 15 17:35:01 2013
From: freepetesub at yahoo.com (Pete Niedermayr)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 14:35:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>
References: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1379280901.68703.YahooMailNeo@web140504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Any media links?
?
Pete
 

________________________________
 From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
  


Cool. Thanks guys. I got some good ides how to correct the problem and still not clutter the cabin. I am going to attach plates to my skids. My "T" skid design would work perfectly for this. I am also thinking of useing some lead shot under the floor boards.?
Alec, I was up all night before the launch putting finishing touches on it. We have been working like crazy to make sure it is ready to go.?
It was covered by the Kansas first news and several news papers too. So psubs got some publicity.?
Thanks guys,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports to testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like crazy getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can see in the responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall Dan H. or Harold Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 400 lbs of lead in the cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need a lot more (3% of your displacement more).

I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, there's nothing like a shiny new boat.?


Best,

Alec



On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It
 seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts? 
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/29095d7d/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Sep 15 17:36:21 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 14:36:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>
References: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1379280981.24930.YahooMailNeo@web120706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
put your buddy up front with you standing in the ct.? make sure the vbt is empty of water, open mbt valves.? Add weight until your windows are half submerged.? Close your mbt valves and give some air to the mbt's? to raise her 6in or so, just to be safe.? Now add 25 lbs close the hatch.? Vent the mbt's then start filling the vbt and you should be good to dive.? No math needed :)
Hank

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:21:53 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch



Cool. Thanks guys. I got some good ides how to correct the problem and still not clutter the cabin. I am going to attach plates to my skids. My "T" skid design would work perfectly for this. I am also thinking of useing some lead shot under the floor boards.?
Alec, I was up all night before the launch putting finishing touches on it. We have been working like crazy to make sure it is ready to go.?
It was covered by the Kansas first news and several news papers too. So psubs got some publicity.?
Thanks guys,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports to testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like crazy getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can see in the responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall Dan H. or Harold Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 400 lbs of lead in the cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need a lot more (3% of your displacement more). 

I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, there's nothing like a shiny new boat.?


Best,

Alec



On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It
 seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/845eaca0/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Sep 15 17:42:07 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 14:42:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <9j43xbk8ndt0ybuu405meex7.1379280310999@email.android.com>
References: <9j43xbk8ndt0ybuu405meex7.1379280310999@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1379281327.12175.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I would wait with changing those lines.? What is the rush, I find it is nice to do?double checks etc while the tanks vent.? When she is the proper weight it will go faster.
Hank

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:33:28 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch



I also plan to rip out the 1/2" lines and go with 3/4" lines for the ballast vents. I want to avoid hydro locking and have the ability to vent quicker.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:
dive was in Saltwater??(density 1.025) 

vbr carsten? 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It
 seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/867a03e7/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Sun Sep 15 17:58:21 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:58:21 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <1379280901.68703.YahooMailNeo@web140504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>
 <1379280901.68703.YahooMailNeo@web140504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52362D7D.4010908@psubs.org>


http://salina.com/news/Submarine-Guy-9-15-clone



On 9/15/2013 5:35 PM, Pete Niedermayr wrote:
> Any media links?
> Pete
>
> *From:* swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
>
> Cool. Thanks guys. I got some good ides how to correct the problem and 
> still not clutter the cabin. I am going to attach plates to my skids. 
> My "T" skid design would work perfectly for this. I am also thinking 
> of useing some lead shot under the floor boards.
> Alec, I was up all night before the launch putting finishing touches 
> on it. We have been working like crazy to make sure it is ready to go.
> It was covered by the Kansas first news and several news papers too. 
> So psubs got some publicity.
> Thanks guys,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports 
> to testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like 
> crazy getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can 
> see in the responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall 
> Dan H. or Harold Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 
> 400 lbs of lead in the cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need 
> a lot more (3% of your displacement more).
>
> I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, 
> there's nothing like a shiny new boat.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com 
> <mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone
>     dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for
>     three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not
>     getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but
>     that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It
>     was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop
>     weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up
>     putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old
>     jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand
>     on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I
>     decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds
>     negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a
>     little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight
>     of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the
>     tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to
>     easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only
>     thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting
>     all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue
>     prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to
>     bouant. Any thoughts?
>     Thanks,
>     Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>     Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/c7d60041/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 17:59:58 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 16:59:58 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <2w2lu3441nbsjg1flumriwpm.1379282346882@email.android.com>

Ok. I will try that first Hank.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Scott,
I would wait with changing those lines.? What is the rush, I find it is nice to do?double checks etc while the tanks vent.? When she is the proper weight it will go faster.
Hank

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:33:28 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch

I also plan to rip out the 1/2" lines and go with 3/4" lines for the ballast vents. I want to avoid hydro locking and have the ability to vent quicker.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:
dive was in Saltwater??(density 1.025) 

vbr carsten? 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb:
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/9daeefe4/attachment-0001.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 18:02:37 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:02:37 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <gd1w4867v6afatvpnl0im0b2.1379282408364@email.android.com>

Here is a link to the newspaper.?

http://www.salina.com/news/Submarine-Guy-9-15-clone

Thanks,
Scott Waters



Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphonePete Niedermayr <freepetesub at yahoo.com> wrote:Any media links?
?
Pete

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch

Cool. Thanks guys. I got some good ides how to correct the problem and still not clutter the cabin. I am going to attach plates to my skids. My "T" skid design would work perfectly for this. I am also thinking of useing some lead shot under the floor boards.?
Alec, I was up all night before the launch putting finishing touches on it. We have been working like crazy to make sure it is ready to go.?
It was covered by the Kansas first news and several news papers too. So psubs got some publicity.?
Thanks guys,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports to testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like crazy getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can see in the responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall Dan H. or Harold Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 400 lbs of lead in the cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need a lot more (3% of your displacement more).

I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, there's nothing like a shiny new boat.?


Best,

Alec


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/4019b06d/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 18:04:11 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:04:11 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <xm8kxa6obg3qtm90t9jpo1uw.1379282573635@email.android.com>

Dry weight is 3920 lbs. I weighed it at the scale today with batteries, tanks, etc. but no occupants.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneDouglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:Hi Scott. Congratulations on your initial launch of Trustworthy! Glad to hear that you have no leaking. Out of curiosity, were you able to get an accurate dry weight yet? This would give you at least some idea of where to start with ballasting calculations. As you mention, if your scuba tanks are mounted exteriorly you would want to subtract their majority from your weight-in-water. what was the status of the variable tank during testing (% full)? ~ Douglas S. ??


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/6f97cbce/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Sep 15 18:06:27 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <xm8kxa6obg3qtm90t9jpo1uw.1379282573635@email.android.com>
References: <xm8kxa6obg3qtm90t9jpo1uw.1379282573635@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1379282787.37085.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Well done Scott,
I also like your colour choice.? All small subs should be yellow :-)
Hank

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:04:11 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch



Dry weight is 3920 lbs. I weighed it at the scale today with batteries, tanks, etc. but no occupants.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Scott. Congratulations on your initial launch of Trustworthy! Glad to hear that you have no leaking. Out of curiosity, were you able to get an accurate dry weight yet? This would give you at least some idea of where to start with ballasting calculations. As you mention, if your scuba tanks are mounted exteriorly you would want to subtract their majority from your weight-in-water. what was the status of the variable tank during testing (% full)? ~ Douglas S. ??



On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It
 seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/9422061c/attachment-0001.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Sun Sep 15 18:19:32 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 18:19:32 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <xm8kxa6obg3qtm90t9jpo1uw.1379282573635@email.android.com>
References: <xm8kxa6obg3qtm90t9jpo1uw.1379282573635@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <52363274.7030001@psubs.org>


Did that include the 300 pounds of weight that you mentioned bringing 
inside?


On 9/15/2013 6:04 PM, swaters wrote:
> Dry weight is 3920 lbs. I weighed it at the scale today with 
> batteries, tanks, etc. but no occupants.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/945ff166/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 18:19:29 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:19:29 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
Message-ID: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>

Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.

http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/

Thanks,
Scott Waters


Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/d82b23a8/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 15 18:39:45 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:39:45 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <455f9d4k249rt42ivi2t88u0.1379284754604@email.android.com>

No. That was without the jacks and lifting weights.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:
Did that include the 300 pounds of weight that you mentioned bringing inside?


On 9/15/2013 6:04 PM, swaters wrote:
Dry weight is 3920 lbs. I weighed it at the scale today with         batteries, tanks, etc. but no occupants.
Thanks,
Scott Waters


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/b0d3900b/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Sun Sep 15 18:44:55 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 18:44:55 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <455f9d4k249rt42ivi2t88u0.1379284754604@email.android.com>
References: <455f9d4k249rt42ivi2t88u0.1379284754604@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <52363867.30007@psubs.org>


Congrats on the fabrication and successful launch Scott.  A job well 
done.  Looking forward to seeing you and trustworthy at the convention.
Jon


From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sun Sep 15 19:45:25 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 19:45:25 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
In-Reply-To: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
References: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnJUG9KqN=WqU9NZ1-2TmFZuZftx1pgAdKywXECPejzEYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the link Scott. Awesome media coverage... you deserve every bit
of praise after completing your K-350. I am really looking forward to
seeing you and Trustworthy at the convention and in the waters of the
Florida Keys! ~ Douglas S.


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 6:19 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.
>
> http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/151a55fe/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 15 20:04:26 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:04:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1379289866.1289.YahooMailIosMobile@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Scott,<br/><br/>Congratulations, Trustworthy is beautifully built, very well done, very professionally executed!<br/><br/>Largest seagull audience  I have seen  since Jonathan Livingtons aerobatics show! :) <br/><br/>I think Dan H said his K boat per plans required an extra 400 lbs of internal weights to submerge.<br/>There's a bit of room there then on a standard k boat for high density exostructure, external fairings and systems, ie manipulator.<br/><br/>Congrats again, well done!<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/fb7ff370/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Sun Sep 15 20:10:37 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:10:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine launch at Milford Lake | Kansas First News
Message-ID: <4556a.5eedbdde.3f67a67d@aol.com>

_Click  here: Submarine launch at Milford Lake | Kansas First News_ 
(http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/)  
 
Scott, you talking about this one maybe?!!
Jim
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/bea67e82/attachment-0001.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Sun Sep 15 20:21:30 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:21:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
In-Reply-To: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
References: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <8D08089D35968FF-E90-25C12@webmail-m210.sysops.aol.com>


Congratulations, Scoot. Great job.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2013 3:20 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video



Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.


http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/


Thanks,
Scott Waters





Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/a126cf9e/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Sun Sep 15 20:43:59 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:43:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
Message-ID: <45cfb.54b0ab5c.3f67ae4e@aol.com>

Hat's off to you, Scott.  I think George K. set the  precedent when he 
couldn't get his first boat to submerge  either.  He had to scrounge up rocks to 
add enough weight.  Hope this  is the first of many successful dives.
 
I forgot to read all the posts before I googled the link and  sent it.  
There were so many!
 
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/15/2013 7:22:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
vbra676539 at aol.com writes:

Congratulations, Scoot. Great  job.
Vance


-----Original  Message-----
From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To:  personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun,  Sep 15, 2013 3:20 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video


 
Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.


http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/


Thanks,
Scott Waters





Sent from my U.S. Cellular?  Smartphone




_______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130915/858655b4/attachment.html>

From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Mon Sep 16 01:25:28 2013
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (brian)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 05:25:28 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
Message-ID: <201309152225187.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>

Good job Scott !?? Gotta be a good feeling !
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: <JimToddPsub at aol.com>
Sent 9/15/2013 5:43:59 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy videoHat's off to you, Scott.? I think George K. set the precedent when?he couldn't get his first boat?to submerge either.? He had to scrounge up rocks to add enough weight.? Hope this is the first of many successful dives.?I forgot to read all the posts before I googled the link and sent it.? There were so many!?Jim?In a message dated 9/15/2013 7:22:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, vbra676539 at aol.com writes:Congratulations, Scoot. Great job.Vance-----Original Message-----
From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2013 3:20 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy videoHere is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/Thanks,Scott WatersSent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/6c7c58be/attachment.html>

From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Mon Sep 16 01:28:35 2013
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (brian)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 05:28:35 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
Message-ID: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>

I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
Brian
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/5d4d71f7/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Mon Sep 16 05:46:21 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:46:21 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <1379289866.1289.YahooMailIosMobile@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
 <1379289866.1289.YahooMailIosMobile@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UAtK9pRwXBtCOD-Aq5DmZs-vOK+itzTQckY1hj6cOEhjg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,
Congratulations on your launch!  Sounds like it went well, even if the boat
was a bit light.  Gives me an idea of how much weight i need for mine now.

Can you tell me how thick your endcaps are?  Mine are spun and so are 13mm
thick at the flange.  This makes them pretty heavy.

I lifted the sub onto the trailer yesterday but the driver couldnt tell me
the weight as his gauge only kicked in at 5 tonns.  He described lifting
the boat as "like lifting a matchbox".  Not sure if thats good or not..!

Anyway, great to hear your in the water.
Kind Regards
James




On 16 September 2013 01:04, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

>   Scott,
>
> Congratulations, Trustworthy is beautifully built, very well done, very
> professionally executed!
>
> Largest seagull audience I have seen since Jonathan Livingtons aerobatics
> show! :)
>
> I think Dan H said his K boat per plans required an extra 400 lbs of
> internal weights to submerge.
> There's a bit of room there then on a standard k boat for high density
> exostructure, external fairings and systems, ie manipulator.
>
> Congrats again, well done!
>
> Joe
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From: *swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>;
> *To: *<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
> *Subject: *[PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
> *Sent: *Sun, Sep 15, 2013 3:19:46 PM
>
>   Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry
> with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I
> did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt
> area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had
> was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or
> so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended
> up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and
> it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went
> down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the
> outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so
> that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the
> extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is
> the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to
> easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can
> figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way.
> Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the
> only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/fc8ae6b9/attachment-0001.html>

From psub101 at indy.rr.com  Mon Sep 16 06:41:59 2013
From: psub101 at indy.rr.com (Steve McQueen)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 06:41:59 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
In-Reply-To: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
References: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <00f801ceb2c9$5f5f1300$1e1d3900$@indy.rr.com>

Scott, congrats!  It is always an inspiration for those of us still building to see completed projects.  I am also looking forward to seeing it at the convention. Thanks for sharing the process.

 

Steve McQueen

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:19 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video

 

Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.

 

http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/

 

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/5713a587/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Sep 16 07:28:23 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 06:28:23 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <anpxpk5tpixgvp42n8s8gk6h.1379330765681@email.android.com>

My end caps are 3/8 thick. My sub design follows the K-350 almost exactly with the acception of alot of small changes that don't affect the main structure or boancy. The only thing that affects it is the tanks on the outside.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJames Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:Hi Scott,
Congratulations on your launch!? Sounds like it went well, even if the boat was a bit light.? Gives me an idea of how much weight i need for mine now.?
?
Can you tell me how thick your endcaps are?? Mine are spun and so are 13mm thick at the flange.? This makes them pretty heavy.
?
I lifted the sub onto the trailer yesterday but the driver couldnt tell me the weight as his gauge only kicked in at 5 tonns.? He described lifting the boat as "like lifting a matchbox".? Not sure if thats good or not..!
?
Anyway, great to hear your in the water.
Kind Regards
James
?


?
On 16 September 2013 01:04, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Scott,

Congratulations, Trustworthy is beautifully built, very well done, very professionally executed!

Largest seagull audience I have seen since Jonathan Livingtons aerobatics show! :) 

I think Dan H said his K boat per plans required an extra 400 lbs of internal weights to submerge.
There's a bit of room there then on a standard k boat for high density exostructure, external fairings and systems, ie manipulator.

Congrats again, well done!

Joe


Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>; 
To: <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch 
Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2013 3:19:46 PM 

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/6f192bd4/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Mon Sep 16 08:40:50 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 13:40:50 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <anpxpk5tpixgvp42n8s8gk6h.1379330765681@email.android.com>
References: <anpxpk5tpixgvp42n8s8gk6h.1379330765681@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UDipY-Sjbznz24SO6Jw89UXyA5nPVZJ71208fXiTRPH7A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

3/8ths is 9.52mm so your caps are almost the same as mine.  I have a little
more material, but probably not much more.  I was thinking maybe with the
extra material i might not be so light, but suspect i will have the same
issues as you now.  Anyway, congratulations again on the launch!.
Kind Regards
James

On 16 September 2013 12:28, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

>  My end caps are 3/8 thick. My sub design follows the K-350 almost
> exactly with the acception of alot of small changes that don't affect the
> main structure or boancy. The only thing that affects it is the tanks on
> the outside.
>  Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>  James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> Congratulations on your launch!  Sounds like it went well, even if the
> boat was a bit light.  Gives me an idea of how much weight i need for mine
> now.
>
> Can you tell me how thick your endcaps are?  Mine are spun and so are 13mm
> thick at the flange.  This makes them pretty heavy.
>
> I lifted the sub onto the trailer yesterday but the driver couldnt tell me
> the weight as his gauge only kicked in at 5 tonns.  He described lifting
> the boat as "like lifting a matchbox".  Not sure if thats good or not..!
>
> Anyway, great to hear your in the water.
> Kind Regards
> James
>
>
>
>
> On 16 September 2013 01:04, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>   Scott,
>>
>> Congratulations, Trustworthy is beautifully built, very well done, very
>> professionally executed!
>>
>> Largest seagull audience I have seen since Jonathan Livingtons aerobatics
>> show! :)
>>
>> I think Dan H said his K boat per plans required an extra 400 lbs of
>> internal weights to submerge.
>> There's a bit of room there then on a standard k boat for high density
>> exostructure, external fairings and systems, ie manipulator.
>>
>> Congrats again, well done!
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From: *swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>;
>> *To: *<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
>> *Subject: *[PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
>> *Sent: *Sun, Sep 15, 2013 3:19:46 PM
>>
>>   Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry
>> with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I
>> did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt
>> area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had
>> was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or
>> so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended
>> up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and
>> it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went
>> down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the
>> outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so
>> that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the
>> extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is
>> the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to
>> easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can
>> figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way.
>> Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the
>> only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/90733da0/attachment-0001.html>

From groplias2 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 16 08:46:27 2013
From: groplias2 at yahoo.com (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 13:46:27 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
In-Reply-To: <00f801ceb2c9$5f5f1300$1e1d3900$@indy.rr.com>
References: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
 <00f801ceb2c9$5f5f1300$1e1d3900$@indy.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1379335587.86150.YahooMailNeo@web133002.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Congratulation Scott. A fine machine
Best wishes
Juergen




________________________________
 Von: Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com>
An: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Gesendet: 5:41 Montag, 16.September 2013
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
 


Scott, congrats!? It is always an inspiration for those of us still building to see completed projects.? I am also looking forward to seeing it at the convention. Thanks for sharing the process.
?
Steve McQueen
?
From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:19 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
?
Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.
?
http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/28b28457/attachment.html>

From groplias2 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 16 08:48:00 2013
From: groplias2 at yahoo.com (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 13:48:00 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
In-Reply-To: <5234E610.6030800@psubs.org>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <CAGbdwUQJG0N8wmx=3OAO6G5qcDSRknOUzOijtOZJh01HM39_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379169211.55762.YahooMailNeo@web133004.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
 <5234E610.6030800@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <1379335680.1952.YahooMailNeo@web133002.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Thnaks to all for their response it was very usefull.
Best wishes
Juergen




________________________________
 Von: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
An: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Gesendet: 17:41 Samstag, 14.September 2013
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] tilting thrusters
 



Juergen, I will just add that in the K600 I found the forward
      thruster handles very awkwardly placed and difficult to turn
      upwards because they were not balanced laterally.? Holding the
      motor handles inside required leaning forward which made looking
      out the conning tower windows difficult.? With fixed motors and
      smart controllers you get tractor movement and that really
      appealed to me.

Jon


On 9/14/2013 10:33 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz wrote:

Hello 
>
>I need some help. I am seaching some information about lateral tilting thrusters as main propulsion for a submarine. Most of the newer subs have fixed vertical or horizantal thrusters. So there must be a big practical reason.? I asume it can be because problems with presure compensating of the motor. If this wasn?t a problem which other problems will have to instal lateral tilting thrusters?
>I thanks in advance for any information, ideas ore hints.
>Best wishes
>Juergen
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/571404b4/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Sep 16 08:51:35 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:51:35 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <dogacu1dt6kv7ys0me0asvg5.1379335806884@email.android.com>

Thanks James.
I think what everyone is saying about needing 400lbs more sounds about right to me. I will confirm on my next test.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJames Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:Hi Scott,
?
3/8ths is 9.52mm so your caps are almost the same as mine.? I have a little more material, but probably not much more.? I was thinking maybe with the extra material i might not be so light, but suspect i will have the same issues as you now.? Anyway, congratulations again on the launch!.
Kind Regards
James

On 16 September 2013 12:28, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
My end caps are 3/8 thick. My sub design follows the K-350 almost exactly with the acception of alot of small changes that don't affect the main structure or boancy. The only thing that affects it is the tanks on the outside.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:
Hi Scott,
Congratulations on your launch!? Sounds like it went well, even if the boat was a bit light.? Gives me an idea of how much weight i need for mine now.?
?
Can you tell me how thick your endcaps are?? Mine are spun and so are 13mm thick at the flange.? This makes them pretty heavy.
?
I lifted the sub onto the trailer yesterday but the driver couldnt tell me the weight as his gauge only kicked in at 5 tonns.? He described lifting the boat as "like lifting a matchbox".? Not sure if thats good or not..!
?
Anyway, great to hear your in the water.
Kind Regards
James
?


?
On 16 September 2013 01:04, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Scott,

Congratulations, Trustworthy is beautifully built, very well done, very professionally executed!

Largest seagull audience I have seen since Jonathan Livingtons aerobatics show! :) 

I think Dan H said his K boat per plans required an extra 400 lbs of internal weights to submerge.
There's a bit of room there then on a standard k boat for high density exostructure, external fairings and systems, ie manipulator.

Congrats again, well done!

Joe


Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>; 
To: <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch 
Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2013 3:19:46 PM 

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/96e7705e/attachment-0001.html>

From jumachine at comcast.net  Mon Sep 16 09:26:09 2013
From: jumachine at comcast.net (Dan H.)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 09:26:09 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
References: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <001701ceb2e0$4ebf4760$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>

Scott,

Congratulations!   By the pics you have posted and the success of your launch, I'd say you did a great job on your build.  If Captain K were still with us, I'm sure he'd be proud to see another of his design built, especially as nice as your is.  Great job!

About the vents, going to 3/4 lines would definitely help vent quicker.  If you your not venting though, it's probably because of water being trapped in the line.  Line size probably won't help that.  

To test for water stuck in your vent line, use a piece of hose to blow backwards through your vent valves.  Either do it at the beginning of your dive with the conning tower open or have someone on the outside of the sub do it.  If it's getting water trapped in the line, you'll blow it back through and then it should vent all the way properly.  

I had that trouble and fixed it by adding a few fittings after the check valve on the line that brings HP air into the tanks.  I fashioned a piece of tubing to blow some of the HP air directly in the fitting connecting the tank to it's vent line.  If my MBT isn't venting properly, I just give it a shot of HP air with the fill valve and blow the trapped water out, then continue venting.  Not having the lines dip up and down as they come along the hull would fix it too but it wouldn't look to nice.

Again, great job,
Dan H.
And yes, you need a bunch of lead inside.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: swaters 
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 11:19 AM
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch


  Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters








  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/c0a8830c/attachment.html>

From jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 16 09:53:43 2013
From: jgcottrell2002 at yahoo.com (greg cottrell)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 06:53:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <5234f0c5.c279420a.0340.50ef@mx.google.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>
 <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5234f0c5.c279420a.0340.50ef@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1379339623.17610.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Hugh,
?
No worries-you did it the right way. There are definately advantages to?using a?gasket, especially on smaller ports where you don't have to worry about overpressure causing a blow like you might have with a big dome. If you have a strong enough method of retaining the dome then that should not be a problem anyway. Obviously, we are talking about domes with a square edge ( not a conical seat).
?
Glueing it in is just a low tech method- but hey- back in the 80s there was no psubs website for all this great info- I was just "wingin it". I probably just asked George if he would glue it or use a gasket and he said "Glue it"! George never did like o-rings....
?
Greg
?
?
?
?
?


________________________________
From: Hugh Fulton <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing



Greg,? I was under the impression that flat viewports are best to have the sealant between the gasket and the steel seat rather than on the acrylic.? Is this acceptable just on the one side.? Would this prevent having to demolish the viewport in your case.? 
Or did you have just the UV sealant and no gasket?? I am concerned at what I have done which was on the gasket only.? Regards,? Hugh
?
From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of greg cottrell
Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 8:06 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
?
?
Just a short commercial about 295 UV-
?
The first forward dome in my sub was bedded in 5200 urethane by 3m (which is advertised as a marine sealant and used for acrylic ports on boats). About two years went by and I noticed that the seal looked different. So I removed the retainer and the dome literally fell out in my hands!? Wasn't expecting that! Luckily I caught it before it hit the ground. The surface of the 5200 was perfectly smooth but it had lost all adhesion to the acrylic. It looked like a rubber gasket.
?
I then removed all of the 5200 and re installed the dome with 295-UV (and the black primer that goes with it).
The dome spent the next ten years installed with lots of dives and no problems.
Eventually, because of its age, I decided to make a new one to replace it (although it still looked like new). I tried to push the old dome out with a 4 x 4 and a hydraulic jack from the inside. It wouldn't even budge. I pushed it so hard that the 4 x 4 was starting to split! The dome wasn't even phased! After a couple of hours I finally took out the recipro saw and cut the dome into radiating pieces to try to pry them out one at a time. Using a crowbar, the acrylic was breaking into pieces but?broken shards were?still stuck?the sub! It took quite a few hours to remove the sikaflex- mostly with wood chisels (heated with a torch) and a wire wheel.
?
So, all I can say is that if you install your domes or ports with 295-UV those ports are NOT coming out without a lot of effort!
?
Greg
?
?
?
From:"MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
?
?http://www.svb24.com/en/sikaflex-295-uv-adhesive-for-plastic-window-panes.html

vbr carsten 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 
Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass. Help?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
http://www.euronaut.org/
Carsten at euronaut.org

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8796 (20130913) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/895eaa96/attachment-0001.html>

From cgraca2 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 16 10:34:04 2013
From: cgraca2 at gmail.com (Christopher Graca)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 09:34:04 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
In-Reply-To: <1379335587.86150.YahooMailNeo@web133002.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com>
 <00f801ceb2c9$5f5f1300$1e1d3900$@indy.rr.com>
 <1379335587.86150.YahooMailNeo@web133002.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADT3QhDGcC4ENK6-C9uRN4cE4h+XZkYm-wjEhxr-0TmkY-TRiA@mail.gmail.com>

congrats scott!


On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz <
groplias2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Congratulation Scott. A fine machine
> Best wishes
> Juergen
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *Von:* Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com>
> *An:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Gesendet:* 5:41 Montag, 16.September 2013
> *Betreff:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
>
> Scott, congrats!  It is always an inspiration for those of us still
> building to see completed projects.  I am also looking forward to seeing it
> at the convention. Thanks for sharing the process.
>
> Steve McQueen
>
> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *swaters
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:19 PM
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
>
> Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.
>
> http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/2994ab1a/attachment.html>

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Mon Sep 16 13:53:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 16 Sep 2013 17:53 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
In-Reply-To: <CADT3QhDGcC4ENK6-C9uRN4cE4h+XZkYm-wjEhxr-0TmkY-TRiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <gba8u5m9dgjvowtidski6xu1.1379283505456@email.android.com> 
 <00f801ceb2c9$5f5f1300$1e1d3900$@indy.rr.com> 
 <1379335587.86150.YahooMailNeo@web133002.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> 
 <CADT3QhDGcC4ENK6-C9uRN4cE4h+XZkYm-wjEhxr-0TmkY-TRiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1VLd0R-1UOQq00@fwd51.t-online.de>

Hi Scott - some pratical expirence - wait with changing the vales/pipes
for bigger one. 

- First add weight, the boat will dive faster.
- For some reasons a slow diver is better, special for starters, 
  Gives you more time if something went wrong, for example a open vale
during launching.
  On Sgt.Peppers the vent line a pretty small for exact that reason. 
  And safe allready the live of a friend which try to dive with open
hatch..
- Dont add all the weight as fix one, use softleadbags from divers which
can easy remove
  from the inside, just in case your guest is a McDonalds fan.. 
  Also yery useful to change quick the longitudinal trim. 
  
vbr Carsten
  

"Christopher Graca" <cgraca2 at gmail.com> schrieb: 
congrats scott!



On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz
<groplias2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Congratulation Scott. A fine machine
Best wishes
Juergen







Von: Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com>
An: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Gesendet: 5:41 Montag, 16.September 2013
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video



Scott, congrats!  It is always an inspiration for those of us still
building to see completed projects.  I am also looking forward to seeing
it at the convention. Thanks for sharing the process.

Steve McQueen

From: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:19 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video

Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.

http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/

Thanks,
Scott Waters


Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/84f5234b/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Sep 16 14:04:43 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 13:04:43 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
Message-ID: <3hbfgtpbpwsjbl66fqlo7nn2.1379354653271@email.android.com>

Great advice Carsten. Will do.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneMerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:Hi Scott - some pratical expirence - wait with changing the vales/pipes for bigger one.?

- First add weight, the boat will dive faster.
- For some reasons a slow diver is better, special for starters,?
? Gives you more time if something went wrong, for?example a open vale during launching.
??On Sgt.Peppers the vent line a pretty small for exact that reason. 
? And safe allready the live of a friend which try to dive with open hatch..
- Dont add?all the weight as fix one, use softleadbags from?divers which can easy?remove
? from the inside, just in case your guest is a McDonalds fan.. 
? Also yery useful to change quick the longitudinal trim. 
??
vbr Carsten
? 

"Christopher Graca" <cgraca2 at gmail.com> schrieb:
congrats scott!


On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz <groplias2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Congratulation Scott. A fine machine
Best wishes
Juergen


Von: Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com>
An: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Gesendet: 5:41 Montag, 16.September 2013
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video

Scott, congrats!? It is always an inspiration for those of us still building to see completed projects.? I am also looking forward to seeing it at the convention. Thanks for sharing the process.
?
Steve McQueen
?
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:19 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy video
?
Here is the link to the news story of launching trustworthy.
?
http://www.kansasfirstnews.com/2013/09/15/submarine-launch-at-milford-lake/
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


?

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
WWW.Euronaut.org
Carsten at euronaut.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130916/a8942688/attachment-0001.html>

From emile at airesearch.nl  Tue Sep 17 02:47:04 2013
From: emile at airesearch.nl (Emile van Essen)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 08:47:04 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <elbipt217bith44qh8mnsbp7.1379257169942@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAvuKu+sImY06UT5pF7uQD8gEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Scott,

 

Bit late but congrats with the launch!

 

Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens swaters
Verzonden: zondag 15 september 2013 17:20
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch

 

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no
leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a
few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean
enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not
weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The
two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up
putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it
still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down.
After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside
which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes
due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight
of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were
not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like
the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe
the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is
built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of
about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130917/b5b2fbb7/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Sep 17 19:02:13 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 16:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <1379282787.37085.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <xm8kxa6obg3qtm90t9jpo1uw.1379282573635@email.android.com>
 <1379282787.37085.YahooMailNeo@web120702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379458933.50301.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Right now there is a segment on daily planet about the kid that built a plastic submarine from a plastic pipe
Hank

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:06:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch



Well done Scott,
I also like your colour choice.? All small subs should be yellow :-)
Hank

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:04:11 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch



Dry weight is 3920 lbs. I weighed it at the scale today with batteries, tanks, etc. but no occupants.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Scott. Congratulations on your initial launch of Trustworthy! Glad to hear that you have no leaking. Out of curiosity, were you able to get an accurate dry weight yet? This would give you at least some idea of where to start with ballasting calculations. As you mention, if your scuba tanks are mounted exteriorly you would want to subtract their majority from your weight-in-water. what was the status of the variable tank during testing (% full)? ~ Douglas S. ??



On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down. After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It
 seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130917/cbd49ec4/attachment.html>

From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Tue Sep 17 19:25:50 2013
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:25:50 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing
In-Reply-To: <1379339623.17610.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1u9ldfih46vlctmd8nqre4xn.1379095515617@email.android.com>
 <1VKY3s-0SJDAu0@fwd19.t-online.de>
 <1379102749.2314.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5234f0c5.c279420a.0340.50ef@mx.google.com>
 <1379339623.17610.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5238e500.a804440a.5f13.18de@mx.google.com>

Thanks Greg,  Sleeping better.  Hugh

 

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of greg cottrell
Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013 1:54 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing

 

Hi Hugh,

 

No worries-you did it the right way. There are definately advantages to
using a gasket, especially on smaller ports where you don't have to worry
about overpressure causing a blow like you might have with a big dome. If
you have a strong enough method of retaining the dome then that should not
be a problem anyway. Obviously, we are talking about domes with a square
edge ( not a conical seat).

 

Glueing it in is just a low tech method- but hey- back in the 80s there was
no psubs website for all this great info- I was just "wingin it". I probably
just asked George if he would glue it or use a gasket and he said "Glue it"!
George never did like o-rings....

 

Greg

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Hugh Fulton <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing

 

Greg,  I was under the impression that flat viewports are best to have the
sealant between the gasket and the steel seat rather than on the acrylic.
Is this acceptable just on the one side.  Would this prevent having to
demolish the viewport in your case.  

Or did you have just the UV sealant and no gasket?  I am concerned at what I
have done which was on the gasket only.  Regards,  Hugh

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of greg cottrell
Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 8:06 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing

 

 

Just a short commercial about 295 UV-

 

The first forward dome in my sub was bedded in 5200 urethane by 3m (which is
advertised as a marine sealant and used for acrylic ports on boats). About
two years went by and I noticed that the seal looked different. So I removed
the retainer and the dome literally fell out in my hands!  Wasn't expecting
that! Luckily I caught it before it hit the ground. The surface of the 5200
was perfectly smooth but it had lost all adhesion to the acrylic. It looked
like a rubber gasket.

 

I then removed all of the 5200 and re installed the dome with 295-UV (and
the black primer that goes with it).

The dome spent the next ten years installed with lots of dives and no
problems.

Eventually, because of its age, I decided to make a new one to replace it
(although it still looked like new). I tried to push the old dome out with a
4 x 4 and a hydraulic jack from the inside. It wouldn't even budge. I pushed
it so hard that the 4 x 4 was starting to split! The dome wasn't even
phased! After a couple of hours I finally took out the recipro saw and cut
the dome into radiating pieces to try to pry them out one at a time. Using a
crowbar, the acrylic was breaking into pieces but broken shards were still
stuck the sub! It took quite a few hours to remove the sikaflex- mostly with
wood chisels (heated with a torch) and a wire wheel.

 

So, all I can say is that if you install your domes or ports with 295-UV
those ports are NOT coming out without a lot of effort!

 

Greg

 

 

 

From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Veiwport sealing

 

 
http://www.svb24.com/en/sikaflex-295-uv-adhesive-for-plastic-window-panes.ht
ml

vbr carsten 

"swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb: 

Where do you buy the material you use to seal veiwports? I have heard
everyone saying sikaflex but there are alot of different kinds of sikaflex
and the one west marine sells says it is not compatible with plexiglass.
Help?

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

 

-- 

Carsten Standfu?
Dipl.Ing.Schiffbau @ Meerestechnik
Heinrich Reck Str.12A
18211 Admannshagen

0172 8464 420
http://www.euronaut.org/
Carsten at euronaut.org


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8796 (20130913) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com/


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8813 (20130917) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130918/900d1215/attachment-0001.html>

From seaquestor at gmail.com  Tue Sep 17 20:14:20 2013
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (seaquestor at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 17:14:20 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
Message-ID: <l31y28ntd4h0jbd6mrqac1b2.1379463260696@email.android.com>

Congrats Scott, I look forward diving in the keys observing the trustworthy performance with video in hand.

Best Regards,
David Colombo
SeaQuestor Industries

804 College Ave.
Santa Rosa, CA.
707.536.1424






hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130917/c7a46c78/attachment.html>

From subvet596 at optonline.net  Wed Sep 18 15:35:05 2013
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:35:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
Message-ID: <e53884df24309.523a0069@optonline.net>

Hi All:
 
I need O-rings for the entry hatches which are 24" id. 26" od. he question I have is, what is the best cross section size to use The parker site has the E1157 @ .275 it seemed a little small to me. I have not yet machined the dove -tail grove yet. Also are there any specs. available for setting up a 3 dog mechanism, able to open from inside or out? 
 
Looking forward to the convention.
 
 
John K.
(203) 414-1000
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130918/d3992a7a/attachment.html>

From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Wed Sep 18 18:29:55 2013
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:29:55 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <52362D7D.4010908@psubs.org>
References: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>
 <1379280901.68703.YahooMailNeo@web140504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52362D7D.4010908@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <523a296c.454b440a.47a1.fffffc74@mx.google.com>

Belated Congratulations Scott.  Just viewed the launch and your project
photos.  Good luck for the future and good diving.  

 

Regards, Hugh

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Jon Wallace
Sent: Monday, 16 September 2013 9:58 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch

 


http://salina.com/news/Submarine-Guy-9-15-clone



On 9/15/2013 5:35 PM, Pete Niedermayr wrote:

Any media links?

 

Pete

 

From: swaters  <mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com> <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch

 

Cool. Thanks guys. I got some good ides how to correct the problem and still
not clutter the cabin. I am going to attach plates to my skids. My "T" skid
design would work perfectly for this. I am also thinking of useing some lead
shot under the floor boards. 

Alec, I was up all night before the launch putting finishing touches on it.
We have been working like crazy to make sure it is ready to go. 

It was covered by the Kansas first news and several news papers too. So
psubs got some publicity. 

Thanks guys,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone


Alec Smyth  <mailto:alecsmyth at gmail.com> <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports to
testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like crazy
getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can see in the
responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall Dan H. or Harold
Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 400 lbs of lead in the
cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need a lot more (3% of your
displacement more). 

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, there's
nothing like a shiny new boat. 

 

 

Best,


Alec

 

On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:



Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with no
leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did have a
few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area clean
enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was not
weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so. The
two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up
putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it
still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down.
After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the outside
which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so that makes
due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the extra weight
of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is the tanks were
not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to easy. It seems like
the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can figure out is maybe
the ballest tanks were not venting all the way. Everything about my sub is
built just like the blue prints so that is the only thing I can think of
about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 8801 (20130914) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/1d478e37/attachment-0001.html>

From jumachine at comcast.net  Wed Sep 18 19:03:33 2013
From: jumachine at comcast.net (Dan H.)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:03:33 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
References: <e53884df24309.523a0069@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <002101ceb4c3$4d197720$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>

John,

Are you sure you really want an O-ring with a one inch cross section??????????
You'd need to machine a groove just under an inch deep and an inch in across to accept it.  If your hatch cover is what the print calls for, it's not think enough for a groove of that size.  

The .275 cross section is plenty.  The two mating surfaces being flat and mating with no gap is much more important then the O-ring cross section.  

You should be fine with the O-ring called for.  

Dan H.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: subvet596 at optonline.net 
  To: PSUBS, Inc. 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:35 PM
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings


  Hi All:

  I need O-rings for the entry hatches which are 24" id. 26" od. he question I have is, what is the best cross section size to use The parker site has the E1157 @ .275 it seemed a little small to me. I have not yet machined the dove -tail grove yet. Also are there any specs. available for setting up a 3 dog mechanism, able to open from inside or out? 

  Looking forward to the convention.


  John K.
  (203) 414-1000



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130918/2e31fc66/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 19 01:55:49 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 07:55:49 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
Message-ID: <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>

Hi Brian,
I've wondered about this also.
I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
off the shelf hat could be used.
Alan
.
Sent from my iPad

On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:

> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> 
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep 19 06:21:36 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 03:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

H Alan,
Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
Hank

From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics


Hi Brian,
I've wondered about this also.
I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
off the shelf hat could be used.
Alan
.
Sent from my iPad

On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:

> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> 
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/ef97eb99/attachment.html>

From subvet596 at optonline.net  Thu Sep 19 07:48:14 2013
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 11:48:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
In-Reply-To: <002101ceb4c3$4d197720$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>
References: <e53884df24309.523a0069@optonline.net>
 <002101ceb4c3$4d197720$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>
Message-ID: <e4f9a0ab23594.523ae47e@optonline.net>

Hi Dan:
 
Sorry for the confusion, a run on sentence will do that. I was asking about the size/cross-section of the O-ring. The 316 stainless steel ring would be welded to the dish lid in which the O-ring would be mounted using a machined dove-tail grove,   
 
Thanks for the input.
 
John K.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan H." 
Date: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:07 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 

> John,
> 
> Are you sure you really want an O-ring with a one inch cross 
> section??????????You'd need to machine a groove just under an 
> inch deep and an inch in across to accept it. If your hatch 
> cover is what the print calls for, it's not think enough for a 
> groove of that size. 
> 
> The .275 cross section is plenty. The two mating surfaces being 
> flat and mating with no gap is much more important then the O-
> ring cross section. 
> 
> You should be fine with the O-ring called for. 
> 
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: subvet596 at optonline.net 
> To: PSUBS, Inc. 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:35 PM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
> 
> 
> Hi All:
> 
> I need O-rings for the entry hatches which are 24" id. 26" od. 
> he question I have is, what is the best cross section size to 
> use The parker site has the E1157 @ .275 it seemed a little 
> small to me. I have not yet machined the dove -tail grove yet. 
> Also are there any specs. available for setting up a 3 dog 
> mechanism, able to open from inside or out? 
> 
> Looking forward to the convention.
> 
> 
> John K.
> (203) 414-1000
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/11443f13/attachment.html>

From jumachine at comcast.net  Thu Sep 19 09:42:20 2013
From: jumachine at comcast.net (Dan H.)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 09:42:20 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
References: <e53884df24309.523a0069@optonline.net>
 <002101ceb4c3$4d197720$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>
 <e4f9a0ab23594.523ae47e@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <002d01ceb53e$10816b80$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>

John,
That makes a lot more sense.  ;-)

The cross section that's called for should work well.  As I said in the earlier E-mail, it's pretty important to have the mating surfaces true to each other.  Weld first then machine.  That will keep all surfaces true and give you the proper compression of the O-ring all the way around the hatch.

Dan H.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: subvet596 at optonline.net 
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
  Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings


  Hi Dan:

  Sorry for the confusion, a run on sentence will do that. I was asking about the size/cross-section of the O-ring. The 316 stainless steel ring would be welded to the dish lid in which the O-ring would be mounted using a machined dove-tail grove,   

  Thanks for the input.

  John K.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Dan H." 
  Date: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:07 pm
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 

  > John,
  > 
  > Are you sure you really want an O-ring with a one inch cross 
  > section??????????You'd need to machine a groove just under an 
  > inch deep and an inch in across to accept it. If your hatch 
  > cover is what the print calls for, it's not think enough for a 
  > groove of that size. 
  > 
  > The .275 cross section is plenty. The two mating surfaces being 
  > flat and mating with no gap is much more important then the O-
  > ring cross section. 
  > 
  > You should be fine with the O-ring called for. 
  > 
  > Dan H.
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: subvet596 at optonline.net 
  > To: PSUBS, Inc. 
  > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:35 PM
  > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
  > 
  > 
  > Hi All:
  > 
  > I need O-rings for the entry hatches which are 24" id. 26" od. 
  > he question I have is, what is the best cross section size to 
  > use The parker site has the E1157 @ .275 it seemed a little 
  > small to me. I have not yet machined the dove -tail grove yet. 
  > Also are there any specs. available for setting up a 3 dog 
  > mechanism, able to open from inside or out? 
  > 
  > Looking forward to the convention.
  > 
  > 
  > John K.
  > (203) 414-1000
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -----------------------------------------------------------------
  > -------------
  > 
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  > 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/ae472284/attachment-0001.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Thu Sep 19 11:10:55 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 11:10:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>


Hank and all,
The issue is overall system pressure versus ambient pressure. If you have a hydraulic unit that builds pressure only when it is activated, and returns to zero when static, then any, and I mean ANY leak point will allow water to creep into your oil. A spring loaded compensator preset to your max ambient plus a little would mitigate that by maintaining system pressure at whatever you set it for.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 3:22 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



H Alan,
Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.  
Hank




From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics


Hi Brian,
I've wondered about this also.
I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
off the shelf hat could be used.
Alan
.
Sent from my iPad

On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:

> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> 
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/10009709/attachment.html>

From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Thu Sep 19 15:51:00 2013
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 19 Sep 2013 19:51 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Other subs on the internet
In-Reply-To: <52321798.1070709@psubs.org>
References: <D9764064-24FB-4F91-B500-E88DC106B8AC@yahoo.com> 
 <1VKCRO-2OKVeq0@fwd52.t-online.de> <52321798.1070709@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <1VMkHa-1a63jU0@fwd17.t-online.de>

 http://www.mensup.fr/moteurs/bateau/d,47748,des-sous-marins-de-poche-pour-admirer-les-fonds-marins.html

http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~amuza2/Amuza_E/product.html


Just a link..

vbr Carsten
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/ce4c027f/attachment.html>

From subvet596 at optonline.net  Thu Sep 19 15:56:06 2013
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:56:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
In-Reply-To: <002d01ceb53e$10816b80$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>
References: <e53884df24309.523a0069@optonline.net>
 <002101ceb4c3$4d197720$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>
 <e4f9a0ab23594.523ae47e@optonline.net>
 <002d01ceb53e$10816b80$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>
Message-ID: <e646ffe124a6f.523b56d6@optonline.net>

Thanks Dan.
 
John K.
(203) 414-1000

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan H." 
Date: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:46 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 

> John,
> That makes a lot more sense. ;-)
> 
> The cross section that's called for should work well. As I said 
> in the earlier E-mail, it's pretty important to have the mating 
> surfaces true to each other. Weld first then machine. That 
> will keep all surfaces true and give you the proper compression 
> of the O-ring all the way around the hatch.
> 
> Dan H.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: subvet596 at optonline.net 
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
> 
> 
> Hi Dan:
> 
> Sorry for the confusion, a run on sentence will do that. I was 
> asking about the size/cross-section of the O-ring. The 316 
> stainless steel ring would be welded to the dish lid in which 
> the O-ring would be mounted using a machined dove-tail grove, 
> 
> Thanks for the input.
> 
> John K.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan H." 
> Date: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:07 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
> 
> > John,
> > 
> > Are you sure you really want an O-ring with a one inch cross 
> > section??????????You'd need to machine a groove just under 
> an 
> > inch deep and an inch in across to accept it. If your hatch 
> > cover is what the print calls for, it's not think enough for 
> a 
> > groove of that size. 
> > 
> > The .275 cross section is plenty. The two mating surfaces 
> being 
> > flat and mating with no gap is much more important then the 
> O-
> > ring cross section. 
> > 
> > You should be fine with the O-ring called for. 
> > 
> > Dan H.
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: subvet596 at optonline.net 
> > To: PSUBS, Inc. 
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:35 PM
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O-rings
> > 
> > 
> > Hi All:
> > 
> > I need O-rings for the entry hatches which are 24" id. 26" 
> od. 
> > he question I have is, what is the best cross section size 
> to 
> > use The parker site has the E1157 @ .275 it seemed a little 
> > small to me. I have not yet machined the dove -tail grove 
> yet. 
> > Also are there any specs. available for setting up a 3 dog 
> > mechanism, able to open from inside or out? 
> > 
> > Looking forward to the convention.
> > 
> > 
> > John K.
> > (203) 414-1000
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > -------------
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> > 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/18a9458a/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep 19 16:27:49 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 13:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1379622469.68336.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
Agreed, but there is a way to avoid this without compensation.? You must use cheap hydraulic cylinders because they use an o-ring on the shaft instead of a wiper seal.? A wiper seal needs pressure on one side to seal against water intrusion.? With an o-ring seal that is not the case, an o-ring is a non directional seal.? Essentially the hydraulic cylinder with an o-ring seal is exactly the same as a reach rod sealing system.? 
Hank

From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



Hank and all,
The issue is overall system pressure versus ambient pressure. If you have a hydraulic unit that builds pressure only when it is activated, and returns to zero when static, then any, and I mean ANY leak point will allow water to creep into your oil. A spring loaded compensator preset to your max ambient plus a little would mitigate that by maintaining system pressure at whatever you set it for.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 3:22 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics


H Alan,
Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
Hank

From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics


Hi Brian,
I've wondered about this also.
I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
off the shelf hat could be used.
Alan
.
Sent from my iPad

On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:

> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> 
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/970c0861/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep 19 16:34:13 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 13:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379622853.58462.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Alan,
After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.? The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.? This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.? You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.? I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.? You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring? glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
Hank

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



H Alan,
Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
Hank

From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics


Hi Brian,
I've wondered about this also.
I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
off the shelf hat could be used.
Alan
.
Sent from my iPad

On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:

> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> 
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/8c76554c/attachment.html>

From Vbra676539 at AOL.com  Thu Sep 19 16:40:53 2013
From: Vbra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 16:40:53 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <1379622469.68336.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>
 <1379622469.68336.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <902352AC-9BEE-4629-A014-8CE75464F3A0@AOL.com>

I agree, bit wear. And tear can cause weeping and it will weep to the path of least resistance. Just something to keep on mind for those experimenting for the first time (or thereabouts).
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:27 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Vance,
> Agreed, but there is a way to avoid this without compensation.  You must use cheap hydraulic cylinders because they use an o-ring on the shaft instead of a wiper seal.  A wiper seal needs pressure on one side to seal against water intrusion.  With an o-ring seal that is not the case, an o-ring is a non directional seal.  Essentially the hydraulic cylinder with an o-ring seal is exactly the same as a reach rod sealing system. 
> Hank
> 
> From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:10:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> Hank and all,
> The issue is overall system pressure versus ambient pressure. If you have a hydraulic unit that builds pressure only when it is activated, and returns to zero when static, then any, and I mean ANY leak point will allow water to creep into your oil. A spring loaded compensator preset to your max ambient plus a little would mitigate that by maintaining system pressure at whatever you set it for.
> Vance
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 3:22 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> H Alan,
> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
> Hank
> 
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> Hi Brian,
> I've wondered about this also.
> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
> off the shelf hat could be used.
> Alan
> .
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> 
> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> > 
> > Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/861bdc59/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep 19 16:51:15 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 13:51:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <902352AC-9BEE-4629-A014-8CE75464F3A0@AOL.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>
 <1379622469.68336.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <902352AC-9BEE-4629-A014-8CE75464F3A0@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1379623875.74124.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

It seems to me, it makes more sense to use the right?parts ?for this.? Often trying to save can end up costing more in the end.? I am sure we can all tell a story about that.
Hank

From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:40:53 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



I agree, bit wear. And tear can cause weeping and it will weep to the path of least resistance. Just something to keep on mind for those experimenting for the first time (or thereabouts).
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:27 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Vance,
>Agreed, but there is a way to avoid this without compensation.? You must use cheap hydraulic cylinders because they use an o-ring on the shaft instead of a wiper seal.? A wiper seal needs pressure on one side to seal against water intrusion.? With an o-ring seal that is not the case, an o-ring is a non directional seal.? Essentially the hydraulic cylinder with an o-ring seal is exactly the same as a reach rod sealing system.? 
>Hank
>
>
>From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:10:55 AM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>
>Hank and all,
>The issue is overall system pressure versus ambient pressure. If you have a hydraulic unit that builds pressure only when it is activated, and returns to zero when static, then any, and I mean ANY leak point will allow water to creep into your oil. A spring loaded compensator preset to your max ambient plus a little would mitigate that by maintaining system pressure at whatever you set it for.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 3:22 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>H Alan,
>Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
>Hank
>
>
>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>Hi Brian,
>I've wondered about this also.
>I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>off the shelf hat could be used.
>Alan
>.
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>> 
>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/0713943f/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep 19 16:55:48 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 13:55:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <902352AC-9BEE-4629-A014-8CE75464F3A0@AOL.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>
 <1379622469.68336.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <902352AC-9BEE-4629-A014-8CE75464F3A0@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1379624148.60054.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
I almost forgot,,, I have the entire drive unit rebuilt and painted for final assembly.? I figured out how the seal works .? It uses an 891 Chesterton mechanical seal (600psi) .? I will put it back together this weekend. I machined a cap that goes over the propeller shaft so I can pressure test the seal with the motor running.
Hank

From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:40:53 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



I agree, bit wear. And tear can cause weeping and it will weep to the path of least resistance. Just something to keep on mind for those experimenting for the first time (or thereabouts).
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:27 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Vance,
>Agreed, but there is a way to avoid this without compensation.? You must use cheap hydraulic cylinders because they use an o-ring on the shaft instead of a wiper seal.? A wiper seal needs pressure on one side to seal against water intrusion.? With an o-ring seal that is not the case, an o-ring is a non directional seal.? Essentially the hydraulic cylinder with an o-ring seal is exactly the same as a reach rod sealing system.? 
>Hank
>
>
>From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:10:55 AM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>
>Hank and all,
>The issue is overall system pressure versus ambient pressure. If you have a hydraulic unit that builds pressure only when it is activated, and returns to zero when static, then any, and I mean ANY leak point will allow water to creep into your oil. A spring loaded compensator preset to your max ambient plus a little would mitigate that by maintaining system pressure at whatever you set it for.
>Vance
>-----Original Message-----
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 3:22 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>H Alan,
>Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
>Hank
>
>
>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>Hi Brian,
>I've wondered about this also.
>I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>off the shelf hat could be used.
>Alan
>.
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>> 
>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/381bb4c4/attachment.html>

From Vbra676539 at AOL.com  Thu Sep 19 17:11:27 2013
From: Vbra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:11:27 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <1379624148.60054.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>
 <1379622469.68336.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <902352AC-9BEE-4629-A014-8CE75464F3A0@AOL.com>
 <1379624148.60054.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FAD1CD36-8C34-44A5-BB73-D4C47A0F8652@AOL.com>

Sounds great, Hank. I knew Gamma was going to a good home!
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:55 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Vance,
> I almost forgot,,, I have the entire drive unit rebuilt and painted for final assembly.  I figured out how the seal works .  It uses an 891 Chesterton mechanical seal (600psi) .  I will put it back together this weekend. I machined a cap that goes over the propeller shaft so I can pressure test the seal with the motor running.
> Hank
> 
> From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:40:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> I agree, bit wear. And tear can cause weeping and it will weep to the path of least resistance. Just something to keep on mind for those experimenting for the first time (or thereabouts).
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:27 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Vance,
>> Agreed, but there is a way to avoid this without compensation.  You must use cheap hydraulic cylinders because they use an o-ring on the shaft instead of a wiper seal.  A wiper seal needs pressure on one side to seal against water intrusion.  With an o-ring seal that is not the case, an o-ring is a non directional seal.  Essentially the hydraulic cylinder with an o-ring seal is exactly the same as a reach rod sealing system. 
>> Hank
>> 
>> From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:10:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> Hank and all,
>> The issue is overall system pressure versus ambient pressure. If you have a hydraulic unit that builds pressure only when it is activated, and returns to zero when static, then any, and I mean ANY leak point will allow water to creep into your oil. A spring loaded compensator preset to your max ambient plus a little would mitigate that by maintaining system pressure at whatever you set it for.
>> Vance
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 3:22 am
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> H Alan,
>> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
>> Hank
>> 
>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> Hi Brian,
>> I've wondered about this also.
>> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>> off the shelf hat could be used.
>> Alan
>> .
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>> > 
>> > Brian
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/5b53034b/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep 19 17:15:59 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <FAD1CD36-8C34-44A5-BB73-D4C47A0F8652@AOL.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D083619179A9CF-1FAC-EC76@webmail-d250.sysops.aol.com>
 <1379622469.68336.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <902352AC-9BEE-4629-A014-8CE75464F3A0@AOL.com>
 <1379624148.60054.YahooMailNeo@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <FAD1CD36-8C34-44A5-BB73-D4C47A0F8652@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1379625359.20748.YahooMailNeo@web120705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks' Vance
The next job is sanding the entire inside of the hull for new paint, so if your bored??? :-)
Hank

From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 3:11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



Sounds great, Hank. I knew Gamma was going to a good home!
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:55 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Vance,
>I almost forgot,,, I have the entire drive unit rebuilt and painted for final assembly.? I figured out how the seal works .? It uses an 891 Chesterton mechanical seal (600psi) .? I will put it back together this weekend. I machined a cap that goes over the propeller shaft so I can pressure test the seal with the motor running.
>Hank
>
>
>From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:40:53 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>
>I agree, bit wear. And tear can cause weeping and it will weep to the path of least resistance. Just something to keep on mind for those experimenting for the first time (or thereabouts).
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Sep 19, 2013, at 4:27 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Vance,
>>Agreed, but there is a way to avoid this without compensation.? You must use cheap hydraulic cylinders because they use an o-ring on the shaft instead of a wiper seal.? A wiper seal needs pressure on one side to seal against water intrusion.? With an o-ring seal that is not the case, an o-ring is a non directional seal.? Essentially the hydraulic cylinder with an o-ring seal is exactly the same as a reach rod sealing system.? 
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:10:55 AM
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>
>>
>>
>>Hank and all,
>>The issue is overall system pressure versus ambient pressure. If you have a hydraulic unit that builds pressure only when it is activated, and returns to zero when static, then any, and I mean ANY leak point will allow water to creep into your oil. A spring loaded compensator preset to your max ambient plus a little would mitigate that by maintaining system pressure at whatever you set it for.
>>Vance
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2013 3:22 am
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>
>>
>>H Alan,
>>Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>
>>
>>Hi Brian,
>>I've wondered about this also.
>>I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>>wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>>bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>>are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>>off the shelf hat could be used.
>>Alan
>>.
>>Sent from my iPad
>>
>>On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130919/0f6f89d4/attachment-0001.html>

From a.erikse at gmail.com  Thu Sep 19 20:22:09 2013
From: a.erikse at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Eriksen?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 02:22:09 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch
In-Reply-To: <523a296c.454b440a.47a1.fffffc74@mx.google.com>
References: <7amelglb2vwck6uwp27s4uv0.1379279475525@email.android.com>
 <1379280901.68703.YahooMailNeo@web140504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52362D7D.4010908@psubs.org>
 <523a296c.454b440a.47a1.fffffc74@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJapUYtgh4Bqv7uzUTra2GC9mgbwVc3CKAkCt=Tr0-Ub1704g@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations from Norway!

-Andr?


2013/9/19 Hugh Fulton <hc.fulton at gmail.com>

> Belated Congratulations Scott.  Just viewed the launch and your project
> photos.  Good luck for the future and good diving.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards, Hugh****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Jon Wallace
> *Sent:* Monday, 16 September 2013 9:58 a.m.
>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch****
>
> ** **
>
>
> http://salina.com/news/Submarine-Guy-9-15-clone
>
>
>
> On 9/15/2013 5:35 PM, Pete Niedermayr wrote:****
>
> Any media links?****
>
>  ****
>
> Pete****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> <swaters at waters-ks.com>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy launch****
>
> ** **
>
> Cool. Thanks guys. I got some good ides how to correct the problem and
> still not clutter the cabin. I am going to attach plates to my skids. My
> "T" skid design would work perfectly for this. I am also thinking of useing
> some lead shot under the floor boards. ****
>
> Alec, I was up all night before the launch putting finishing touches on
> it. We have been working like crazy to make sure it is ready to go. ****
>
> It was covered by the Kansas first news and several news papers too. So
> psubs got some publicity. ****
>
> Thanks guys,****
>
> Scott Waters****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone****
>
>
> Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> Excellent, congrats! You went from asking how to bond your viewports to
> testing them in just a couple of days, you must be working like crazy
> getting Trustworthy ready for the convention. Well, as you can see in the
> responses the boats are typically light. I seem to recall Dan H. or Harold
> Maynard - a K350 whichever it was - saying they had 400 lbs of lead in the
> cabin. And remember for salt water you'll need a lot more (3% of your
> displacement more). ****
>
> ** **
>
> I'm really looking forward to seeing Trustworthy in a few weeks, there's
> nothing like a shiny new boat. ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Best,****
>
>
> Alec****
>
> ** **
>
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 11:19 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> ****
>
> Hey guys. I did the first dive in trustworthy. The boat is bone dry with
> no leaks or even weeping after being in the water for three hours. I did
> have a few electrical problems due to not getting the grounding bolt area
> clean enough of epoxy paint, but that is a easy fix. A problem I had was
> not weighing enough. It was me and a buddy we both weigh 175 pounds or so.
> The two drop weights are 250 pounds total (same as kitteredge). I ended up
> putting 100 pounds of lifting weights, about 200 pounds of old jacks and it
> still wouldn't go down. I had the safty dives stand on it and it went down.
> After scrathing my head for a while I decided the scuba tanks on the
> outside which had 100 pounds negative boancy now is close to 0 boyancy so
> that makes due for a little, of the extra floatation. But what about the
> extra weight of the jacks and the divers? The only thing I can think of is
> the tanks were not venting well. I notice they got hydro locked way to
> easy. It seems like the 1/2 " line is way to small. So the only thing I can
> figure out is maybe the ballest tanks were not venting all the way.
> Everything about my sub is built just like the blue prints so that is the
> only thing I can think of about it being to bouant. Any thoughts?****
>
> Thanks,****
>
> Scott Waters****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles****
>
> ** **
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> ****
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________****
>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list****
>
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org****
>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles****
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 8801 (20130914) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com****
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 8813 (20130917) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


-- 
Med Vennlig Hilsen / Regards
*Andr? Eriksen*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130920/b5b9812a/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 21 05:04:47 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 10:04:47 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <1379622853.58462.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1379622853.58462.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AEE9F38-F137-4687-9E7E-ECE0DD2C1014@yahoo.com>

Thanks Hank,
The working end of the bike brakes I've seen probably wouldn't be much use & couldn't
be adapted. There may be some other small hydraulic manual system that could be pressure
compensated out there. Will have a google some time.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Hi Alan,
> After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.  The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.  This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.  You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.  I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.  You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring  glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
> Hank
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> H Alan,
> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
> Hank
> 
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> Hi Brian,
> I've wondered about this also.
> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
> off the shelf hat could be used.
> Alan
> .
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> 
> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> > 
> > Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130921/80eed9f4/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 21 05:25:24 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 10:25:24 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <1379622853.58462.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130915222800.SM04512@[66.162.33.185]>
 <760F65E1-E427-4FB3-BCAB-31976BA6E94E@yahoo.com>
 <1379586096.36296.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1379622853.58462.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29FE8BAA-A201-47ED-93A9-82C764CA0D14@yahoo.com>

Just did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.
These look like they could be possibly adapted.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/
Alan



Sent from my iPad

On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Hi Alan,
> After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.  The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.  This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.  You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.  I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.  You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring  glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
> Hank
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> H Alan,
> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
> Hank
> 
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> Hi Brian,
> I've wondered about this also.
> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
> off the shelf hat could be used.
> Alan
> .
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> 
> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> > 
> > Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130921/ee2ae79e/attachment.html>

From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Sat Sep 21 09:26:25 2013
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (brian)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 13:26:25 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
Message-ID: <201309210626494.SM04860@[66.162.33.185]>

Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ??? Quite amazing.? They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.? It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulicsJust did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.These look like they could be possibly adapted.http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Hi Alan,After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.? The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.? This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.? You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.? I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.? You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring? glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.HankFrom: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AMSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulicsH Alan,Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? HankFrom: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PMSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
Hi Brian,
I've wondered about this also.
I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
off the shelf hat could be used.
Alan
.
Sent from my iPad
On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> 
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130921/1bf71378/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 22 14:14:29 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 19:14:29 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <201309210626494.SM04860@[66.162.33.185]>
References: <201309210626494.SM04860@[66.162.33.185]>
Message-ID: <56797701-1D85-4A76-8DBA-19161408D061@yahoo.com>

What Americas cup catamarans Brian? 
Do you mean the Emirates Team NewZealand boat that is 8-3 up against Oracle Team U.S.A.?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 21/09/2013, at 1:26 PM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:

> Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ?   Quite amazing.  They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.  It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
> 
> Brian
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> Just did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.
> These look like they could be possibly adapted.
> http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Alan,
>> After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.  The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.  This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.  You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.  I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.  You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring  glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
>> Hank
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> H Alan,
>> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
>> Hank
>> 
>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> Hi Brian,
>> I've wondered about this also.
>> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>> off the shelf hat could be used.
>> Alan
>> .
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>> > 
>> > Brian
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130922/fa983643/attachment-0001.html>

From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Sun Sep 22 16:28:10 2013
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (brian)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 20:28:10 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
Message-ID: <20130922132872.SM05336@[66.162.33.185]>

Ha Ha
-----Original Message-----
From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
Sent 9/22/2013 11:14:29 AM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulicsWhat Americas cup catamarans Brian??Do you mean the Emirates Team NewZealand boat that is 8-3 up against Oracle Team U.S.A.?Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 21/09/2013, at 1:26 PM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ??? Quite amazing.? They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.? It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulicsJust did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.These look like they could be possibly adapted.http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Hi Alan,After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.? The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.? This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.? You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.? I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.? You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring? glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.HankFrom: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AMSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulicsH Alan,Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? HankFrom: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PMSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
Hi Brian,
I've wondered about this also.
I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
off the shelf hat could be used.
Alan
.
Sent from my iPad
On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
> 
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130922/4d6c6485/attachment.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Sep 22 17:22:37 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <20130922132872.SM05336@[66.162.33.185]>
References: <20130922132872.SM05336@[66.162.33.185]>
Message-ID: <1379884957.43764.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I think Alan is a proud fan :-)


From: brian <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:28:10 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



Ha Ha

-----Original Message-----
From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
Sent 9/22/2013 11:14:29 AM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics


What Americas cup catamarans Brian??
Do you mean the Emirates Team NewZealand boat that is 8-3 up against Oracle Team U.S.A.?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 21/09/2013, at 1:26 PM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:


Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ??? Quite amazing.? They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.? It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
>
>Brian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>Just did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.
>These look like they could be possibly adapted.
>http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Hi Alan,
>>After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.? The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.? This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.? You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.? I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.? You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring? glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
>>Hank
>>
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>
>>
>>
>>H Alan,
>>Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>
>>
>>Hi Brian,
>>I've wondered about this also.
>>I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>>wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>>bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>>are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>>off the shelf hat could be used.
>>Alan
>>.
>>Sent from my iPad
>>
>>On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130922/fbff4ae5/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 22 17:52:45 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 22:52:45 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <1379884957.43764.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130922132872.SM05336@[66.162.33.185]>
 <1379884957.43764.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8092F0DC-7F58-44B6-9140-0F6557D322B9@yahoo.com>

No I spoke too soon Hank, we just lost 2 races.
I think we should get back to the subject of submarines.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 22/09/2013, at 10:22 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I think Alan is a proud fan :-)
> 
> From: brian <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:28:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> Ha Ha
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> Sent 9/22/2013 11:14:29 AM
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
> 
> What Americas cup catamarans Brian? 
> Do you mean the Emirates Team NewZealand boat that is 8-3 up against Oracle Team U.S.A.?
> Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 21/09/2013, at 1:26 PM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> 
>> Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ?   Quite amazing.  They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.  It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> Just did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.
>> These look like they could be possibly adapted.
>> http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Alan,
>>> After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.  The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.  This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.  You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.  I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.  You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring  glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
>>> Hank
>>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>> 
>>> H Alan,
>>> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>> 
>>> Hi Brian,
>>> I've wondered about this also.
>>> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>>> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>>> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>>> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>>> off the shelf hat could be used.
>>> Alan
>>> .
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>>> > 
>>> > Brian
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130922/a4f6d79f/attachment.html>

From jimtoddpsub at aol.com  Sun Sep 22 18:14:42 2013
From: jimtoddpsub at aol.com (Jim Todd)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 17:14:42 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA
In-Reply-To: <8092F0DC-7F58-44B6-9140-0F6557D322B9@yahoo.com>
References: <20130922132872.SM05336@[66.162.33.185]>
 <1379884957.43764.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8092F0DC-7F58-44B6-9140-0F6557D322B9@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AEB126F3-B49C-44A6-864F-986E5B36F7A6@aol.com>


Alan, are u in the USA yet?
Jim



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> No I spoke too soon Hank, we just lost 2 races.
> I think we should get back to the subject of submarines.
> Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 22/09/2013, at 10:22 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> I think Alan is a proud fan :-)
>> 
>> From: brian <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:28:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> Ha Ha
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> Sent 9/22/2013 11:14:29 AM
>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>> 
>> What Americas cup catamarans Brian? 
>> Do you mean the Emirates Team NewZealand boat that is 8-3 up against Oracle Team U.S.A.?
>> Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 21/09/2013, at 1:26 PM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ?   Quite amazing.  They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.  It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
>>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>> 
>>> Just did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.
>>> These look like they could be possibly adapted.
>>> http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Alan,
>>>> After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.  The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.  This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.  You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.  I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.  You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring  glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
>>>> Hank
>>>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>>> 
>>>> H Alan,
>>>> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
>>>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>> I've wondered about this also.
>>>> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>>>> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>>>> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>>>> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>>>> off the shelf hat could be used.
>>>> Alan
>>>> .
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>>>> > 
>>>> > Brian
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130922/58c644fa/attachment-0001.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 23 00:32:46 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:32:46 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA
In-Reply-To: <AEB126F3-B49C-44A6-864F-986E5B36F7A6@aol.com>
References: <20130922132872.SM05336@[66.162.33.185]>
 <1379884957.43764.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8092F0DC-7F58-44B6-9140-0F6557D322B9@yahoo.com>
 <AEB126F3-B49C-44A6-864F-986E5B36F7A6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <791AABA9-159F-4C14-89DE-4F44FA1741E2@yahoo.com>

Hi Jim,
No, England till 26th.
Went to the Cherbourg submarine museum in Normandy on the way.
Well worth the visit & have taken oodles of photos.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 22/09/2013, at 11:14 PM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:

> 
> Alan, are u in the USA yet?
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 22, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> No I spoke too soon Hank, we just lost 2 races.
>> I think we should get back to the subject of submarines.
>> Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 22/09/2013, at 10:22 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think Alan is a proud fan :-)
>>> 
>>> From: brian <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:28:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>> 
>>> Ha Ha
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent 9/22/2013 11:14:29 AM
>>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>> 
>>> What Americas cup catamarans Brian? 
>>> Do you mean the Emirates Team NewZealand boat that is 8-3 up against Oracle Team U.S.A.?
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On 21/09/2013, at 1:26 PM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ?   Quite amazing.  They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.  It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
>>>> 
>>>> Brian
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>>> Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
>>>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>>> 
>>>> Just did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.
>>>> These look like they could be possibly adapted.
>>>> http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Alan,
>>>>> After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.  The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.  This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.  You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.  I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.  You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring  glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
>>>>> Hank
>>>>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>>>> 
>>>>> H Alan,
>>>>> Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material. 
>>>>> Hank
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>> I've wondered about this also.
>>>>> I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>>>>> wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>>>>> bouys or similar.  The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>>>>> are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>>>>> off the shelf hat could be used.
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> .
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> > I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > Brian
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/41aef890/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 23 07:43:53 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 04:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA
In-Reply-To: <791AABA9-159F-4C14-89DE-4F44FA1741E2@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379936633.42398.YahooMailIosMobile@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,<br/><br/>Out of curiosity, are the U-Boat sub pens in France still in existence, or bombed out?<br/><br/>I tend to think they must be there, too many movies have featured at least one unless it was a rigged set.<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/2224a70b/attachment-0001.html>

From subvet596 at optonline.net  Mon Sep 23 08:08:45 2013
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:08:45 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA
In-Reply-To: <1379936633.42398.YahooMailIosMobile@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <791AABA9-159F-4C14-89DE-4F44FA1741E2@yahoo.com>
 <1379936633.42398.YahooMailIosMobile@web160502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1053876551-1379938124-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2021823849-@b3.c7.bise6.blackberry>

Alan:

They (the Pens) still exist. Any destroyed would have been demolished after the war (WW2). The construction was so massive that most countries could not afford the cost of demolition.

John K.
(203) 414-1000
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 04:43:53 
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep 23 08:09:57 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:09:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
Message-ID: <6c5b.6be30de2.3f718995@aol.com>

Joe,
 
The U-Boat pens are still there.  I just happened to see  a 
documentary/tour on them about a month ago.  They're so massive they're  almost impossible 
to remove. In France alone they contain 4.4 million cubic  meters of 
concrete.  12-foot thick roofs and walls are pretty  durable.  
 
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/23/2013 6:44:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:

Alan,

Out of curiosity, are the U-Boat sub pens in  France still in existence, or 
bombed out?

I tend to think they  must be there, too many movies have featured at least 
one unless it was  a rigged set.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo! Mail for  iPad 
 


  
____________________________________
 From: Alan  <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA  
Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2013  4:32:46 AM 


Hi Jim,
No, England till 26th.
Went to the Cherbourg submarine museum in Normandy on the  way.
Well worth the visit & have taken oodles of photos.
Alan

Sent from my iPad
 

On 22/09/2013, at 11:14 PM, Jim Todd <_jimtoddpsub at aol.com_ 
(javascript:return) >  wrote:











_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/d3033234/attachment.html>

From gregc02 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 23 09:00:37 2013
From: gregc02 at gmail.com (Gregory Cotton)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:00:37 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
In-Reply-To: <6c5b.6be30de2.3f718995@aol.com>
References: <6c5b.6be30de2.3f718995@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAOpf=rx2i88tSjDNBLec=8ubvFNBUT4hN5aeNCHebtGfV7RG5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Back in the mid 1980s I got a tour of the pens in La Rochelle. The French
Navy was still using part of it. Impressive!!!


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 7:09 AM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:

> **
> Joe,
>
> The U-Boat pens are still there.  I just happened to see a
> documentary/tour on them about a month ago.  They're so massive they're
> almost impossible to remove. In France alone they contain 4.4 million cubic
> meters of concrete.  12-foot thick roofs and walls are pretty durable.
>
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 9/23/2013 6:44:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:
>
>   Alan,
>
> Out of curiosity, are the U-Boat sub pens in France still in existence, or
> bombed out?
>
> I tend to think they must be there, too many movies have featured at least
> one unless it was a rigged set.
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From: *Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;
> *To: *Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
> *Subject: *Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA
> *Sent: *Mon, Sep 23, 2013 4:32:46 AM
>
>   Hi Jim,
> No, England till 26th.
> Went to the Cherbourg submarine museum in Normandy on the way.
> Well worth the visit & have taken oodles of photos.
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 22/09/2013, at 11:14 PM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/18d69818/attachment.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 23 10:51:53 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 07:51:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
In-Reply-To: <CAOpf=rx2i88tSjDNBLec=8ubvFNBUT4hN5aeNCHebtGfV7RG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c5b.6be30de2.3f718995@aol.com>
 <CAOpf=rx2i88tSjDNBLec=8ubvFNBUT4hN5aeNCHebtGfV7RG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1379947913.72904.YahooMailNeo@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Very interesting thanks.

I can name off a few films off hand featuring at least one of the pens, Das Boot, Indiana Jones, James Bond (?),.., but I didn't know if it was a set or real place as I never looked into it.

Are the white cliffs of Dover real,..or painted granite? .....? Just kidding!!! :)

I've just got to get to Europe, ...so much to see!

Joe




________________________________
 From: Gregory Cotton <gregc02 at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
 


Back in the mid 1980s I got a tour of the pens in La Rochelle. The French Navy was still using part of it. Impressive!!!




On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 7:09 AM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:

 
>Joe,
>?
>The U-Boat pens are still there.? I just happened to see 
a documentary/tour on them about a month ago.? They're so massive they're 
almost impossible to remove. In France alone they contain 4.4 million cubic 
meters of concrete.? 12-foot thick roofs and walls are pretty 
durable.? 
>?
>Jim
>?
>In a message dated 9/23/2013 6:44:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time, josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:
>Alan,
>>
>>Out of curiosity, are the U-Boat sub pens in 
        France still in existence, or bombed out?
>>
>>I tend to think they 
        must be there, too many movies have featured at least one unless it was 
        a rigged set.
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for 
    iPad 
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Alan  <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
>>To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA 
>>Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2013  4:32:46 AM 
>>
>>
>>Hi Jim,
>>No, England till 26th.
>>Went to the Cherbourg submarine museum in Normandy on the 
way.
>>Well worth the visit & have taken oodles of photos.
>>Alan
>>
>>Sent from my iPad
>>
>>On 22/09/2013, at 11:14 PM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com>  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles 
  mailing 
  list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/ec3eea29/attachment-0001.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Mon Sep 23 11:42:58 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:42:58 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
In-Reply-To: <1379947913.72904.YahooMailNeo@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <6c5b.6be30de2.3f718995@aol.com>
 <CAOpf=rx2i88tSjDNBLec=8ubvFNBUT4hN5aeNCHebtGfV7RG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379947913.72904.YahooMailNeo@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UC9Y8KDhdb4tKX--aunJLRRuW6HVg8ydeHCQn3K1V56HA@mail.gmail.com>

>
>  >Are the white cliffs of Dover real,..or painted granite? .....  Just
> kidding!!! :)
>

Its neither.  Its all the bird poo from the millions of seagulls that live
on the cliffs.  Thats why the bluebells grow there.  Honest......



>    ------------------------------
> *From:* Gregory Cotton <gregc02 at gmail.com>
>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 23, 2013 9:00 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
>
>  Back in the mid 1980s I got a tour of the pens in La Rochelle. The
> French Navy was still using part of it. Impressive!!!
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 7:09 AM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:
>
> **
> Joe,
>
> The U-Boat pens are still there.  I just happened to see a
> documentary/tour on them about a month ago.  They're so massive they're
> almost impossible to remove. In France alone they contain 4.4 million cubic
> meters of concrete.  12-foot thick roofs and walls are pretty durable.
>
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 9/23/2013 6:44:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:
>
>   Alan,
>
> Out of curiosity, are the U-Boat sub pens in France still in existence, or
> bombed out?
>
> I tend to think they must be there, too many movies have featured at least
> one unless it was a rigged set.
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From: *Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;
> *To: *Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
> *Subject: *Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA
> *Sent: *Mon, Sep 23, 2013 4:32:46 AM
>
>   Hi Jim,
> No, England till 26th.
> Went to the Cherbourg submarine museum in Normandy on the way.
> Well worth the visit & have taken oodles of photos.
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 22/09/2013, at 11:14 PM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/c104c03e/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Sep 23 12:05:53 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:05:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs of Dover
Message-ID: <ca37.4abf6446.3f71c0e1@aol.com>

Or just possibly because the cliff are composed of  chalk...
 
 
In a message dated 9/23/2013 10:43:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com writes:

 
 
>Are  the white cliffs of Dover real,..or painted granite? .....  Just  
kidding!!! :)


 
Its neither.  Its all the bird poo from the millions of seagulls  that live 
on the cliffs.  Thats why the bluebells grow there.   Honest......
 
 

 
 
 
 
  
____________________________________
 From: Gregory  Cotton <_gregc02 at gmail.com_ (mailto:gregc02 at gmail.com) >  

To: Personal  Submersibles General Discussion 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > 

Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 9:00  AM
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens


 


Back in the mid 1980s I got a tour of the pens in La Rochelle.  The French 
Navy was still using part of it. Impressive!!!



On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 7:09 AM, <_JimToddPsub at aol.com_ 
(mailto:JimToddPsub at aol.com) > wrote:


Joe,
 
The U-Boat pens are still there.  I just happened  to see a 
documentary/tour on them about a month ago.  They're so  massive they're almost impossible 
to remove. In France alone they contain  4.4 million cubic meters of 
concrete.  12-foot thick roofs and walls  are pretty durable.  
 
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/23/2013 6:44:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
_josephperkel at yahoo.com_ (mailto:josephperkel at yahoo.com)  writes:

Alan,

Out of curiosity, are the U-Boat sub  pens in France still in existence, or 
bombed out?

I tend to  think they must be there, too many movies have featured at least 
 one unless it was a rigged set.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo!  Mail for iPad 
 


  
____________________________________
 From: Alan <_alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com_ 
(mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com) >; 
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >; 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA  
Sent: Mon, Sep 23,  2013 4:32:46 AM 


Hi Jim,
No, England till 26th.
Went to the Cherbourg submarine museum in Normandy on the  way.
Well worth the visit & have taken oodles of photos.
Alan

Sent from my iPad
 

On 22/09/2013, at 11:14 PM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:











_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles










_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/e10b24ac/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 23 13:06:08 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 18:06:08 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UC9Y8KDhdb4tKX--aunJLRRuW6HVg8ydeHCQn3K1V56HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c5b.6be30de2.3f718995@aol.com>
 <CAOpf=rx2i88tSjDNBLec=8ubvFNBUT4hN5aeNCHebtGfV7RG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379947913.72904.YahooMailNeo@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHpB=UC9Y8KDhdb4tKX--aunJLRRuW6HVg8ydeHCQn3K1V56HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0BA4352C-ED5A-4514-A7D7-20BE5003A954@yahoo.com>

No, they're black.
I took the channel tunnel.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 23/09/2013, at 4:42 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:

>> >Are the white cliffs of Dover real,..or painted granite? .....  Just kidding!!! :)
>  
> Its neither.  Its all the bird poo from the millions of seagulls that live on the cliffs.  Thats why the bluebells grow there.  Honest......
>  
>  
>> From: Gregory Cotton <gregc02 at gmail.com>
>> 
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 9:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U-Boat pens
>> 
>> Back in the mid 1980s I got a tour of the pens in La Rochelle. The French Navy was still using part of it. Impressive!!!
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 7:09 AM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:
>> Joe,
>>  
>> The U-Boat pens are still there.  I just happened to see a documentary/tour on them about a month ago.  They're so massive they're almost impossible to remove. In France alone they contain 4.4 million cubic meters of concrete.  12-foot thick roofs and walls are pretty durable.  
>>  
>> Jim
>>  
>> In a message dated 9/23/2013 6:44:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time, josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:
>> Alan,
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, are the U-Boat sub pens in France still in existence, or bombed out?
>> 
>> I tend to think they must be there, too many movies have featured at least one unless it was a rigged set.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>> 
>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] USA 
>> Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2013 4:32:46 AM 
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>> No, England till 26th.
>> Went to the Cherbourg submarine museum in Normandy on the way.
>> Well worth the visit & have taken oodles of photos.
>> Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 22/09/2013, at 11:14 PM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/2320cec8/attachment-0001.html>

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Sep 23 15:49:33 2013
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] shaft seal,
In-Reply-To: <1379884957.43764.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130922132872.SM05336@[66.162.33.185]>
 <1379884957.43764.YahooMailNeo@web120703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1379965773.98765.YahooMailNeo@web120706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

An interesting experiment.? I have always wanted to experiment with hydraulic high pressure shaft seals.? This weekend I had a chance to do that.? I was buying O-rings for my sub drive unit and decided to buy a hydraulic seal, and they had one that fit my shaft and housing perfectly.? First I tested the?chesterton seal and it leaked a bit.? The seal came with the Gamma and was an old take out.? I did not expect it to seal.? I just used it to size the parts I had to machine.? I then installed the 5 dollar hyd seal and gave it a shot of oil.? I pumped 600 psi of air into the chamber and spun the shaft and I holds the pressure ?perfectly.? I am going to do a long run test with the shaft and seal in my lathe next.? Pretty interesting
Hank

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:22:37 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



I think Alan is a proud fan :-)


From: brian <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:28:10 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics



Ha Ha

-----Original Message-----
From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
Sent 9/22/2013 11:14:29 AM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics


What Americas cup catamarans Brian??
Do you mean the Emirates Team NewZealand boat that is 8-3 up against Oracle Team U.S.A.?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 21/09/2013, at 1:26 PM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:


Have you guys seen those Catamarans in the America's cup ??? Quite amazing.? They use the hydraulics to move the foils up and down as well as moving the "sail" or more correctly the wing.? It's all they can do to keep up the hydraulic pressure for the constant adjustments that have to be made.
>
>Brian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Alan" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>Sent 9/21/2013 2:25:24 AM
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>
>
>Just did a quick google & there are hydraulic rim bicycle brakes as well as the disc brakes.
>These look like they could be possibly adapted.
>http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On 19/09/2013, at 9:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Hi Alan,
>>After some more thought, I have changed my mind about bicycle brakes.? The problem is the caliper has a rather large piston area.? This gives you better brake force, but it would hurt you when you put water pressure against it.? You want a small piston like a hydraulic clutch in a car.? I would use the clutch parts because they would also be aluminum and much tougher.? You would need to remove the piston and machine an o-ring? glove because the normal seal is designed to push in one direction only.
>>Hank
>>
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:21:36 AM
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>
>>
>>
>>H Alan,
>>Bicycle brakes would probably work quite well because they are made from very good material.? 
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:55:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydraulics
>>
>>
>>Hi Brian,
>>I've wondered about this also.
>>I was looking at the hydraulic brakes they have on bicycles now days &
>>wondering if you could adapt them for functions like releasing emergency
>>bouys or similar.? The manual hydraulics they have on boats, like steering units
>>are pretty expensive. Would be good to find something of suitable material
>>off the shelf hat could be used.
>>Alan
>>.
>>Sent from my iPad
>>
>>On 16/09/2013, at 5:28 AM, "brian" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if those human powered hydraulics could have an application for our boats, like the cats in the America's cup.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130923/5233f567/attachment.html>

From jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com  Tue Sep 24 09:06:31 2013
From: jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com (James Frankland)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:06:31 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Digital Barometer Thing
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UCVk1YNSAiSrb-p+V+x38=E6XC=+a-oncjQ_nfmC+TXWw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Its only a small thing but I thought i would mention this.  I believe a few
of you have bought the SunRoad digital barometer?  We talked about it a
while ago.

Anyway, i lost the instructions for mine and so i ordered a different
type.  The new one arrived today and its really good.  Took a couple of
weeks to come from China, but worth it.  The main thing is the
contruction.  Its very solid stainless with a really nice domed lense.
Waterproof to 30m so it says.  Function looks similar to the other (not
that i managed to get my other to work properly without the instructions)
but you can also set "fishing alarms" at different pressures.  Handy.

Well worth a look.
Regards
James

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006IU34T0/ref=fb_lfb_prodpg_0
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130924/a19e71fb/attachment.html>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 25 04:17:53 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:17:53 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Digital Barometer Thing
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UCVk1YNSAiSrb-p+V+x38=E6XC=+a-oncjQ_nfmC+TXWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UCVk1YNSAiSrb-p+V+x38=E6XC=+a-oncjQ_nfmC+TXWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53848317-5325-4EBF-8B84-B64A97491656@yahoo.com>

Thanks James,
It's good to hear comment on these products.
It's hard to tell what you are getting when you order on the net.
I've bought my fair share of duds.
They have that model of barometer on "Deal Extreme", with free freight.
I think the price is similar. 
http://dx.com/s/Barometer
Also there is a circuit board with barometer & compass that links in to an arduino set up.
Jon might be interested.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 24/09/2013, at 2:06 PM, James Frankland <jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>  
> Its only a small thing but I thought i would mention this.  I believe a few of you have bought the SunRoad digital barometer?  We talked about it a while ago.
>  
> Anyway, i lost the instructions for mine and so i ordered a different type.  The new one arrived today and its really good.  Took a couple of weeks to come from China, but worth it.  The main thing is the contruction.  Its very solid stainless with a really nice domed lense.  Waterproof to 30m so it says.  Function looks similar to the other (not that i managed to get my other to work properly without the instructions) but you can also set "fishing alarms" at different pressures.  Handy.
>  
> Well worth a look.
> Regards
> James
>  
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006IU34T0/ref=fb_lfb_prodpg_0
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130925/f4c32bc7/attachment-0001.html>

From pilotfishp at gmail.com  Wed Sep 25 07:37:05 2013
From: pilotfishp at gmail.com (Antoine Delafargue)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:37:05 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces III rescue story
Message-ID: <CAOajxnHCHTTQvn1nukPfP57M5Af8AyCppVPsP56u1YzUhTZnGA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
just came across this fascinating story :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23862359


regards
Antoine
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130925/acbab56d/attachment.html>

From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Wed Sep 25 08:16:54 2013
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:16:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces III rescue story
Message-ID: <b759b.229cf1e2.3f742e35@aol.com>

Antoine,
Very interesting article.  Thanks for posting it.  I  wonder what 
modifications were made to the subs after the incident.
-Jim
 
 
In a message dated 9/25/2013 6:37:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
pilotfishp at gmail.com writes:

Hi all,   
just came across this fascinating story :


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23862359





regards
Antoine





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130925/e3f8a3ff/attachment.html>

From vbra676539 at aol.com  Wed Sep 25 08:32:04 2013
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:32:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces III rescue story
In-Reply-To: <b759b.229cf1e2.3f742e35@aol.com>
References: <b759b.229cf1e2.3f742e35@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8D0880260070948-1AD0-1484@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com>


I think P-III was one of the boats with a squat sort of stabilizing fin on the stern over that hatch. They were heavy and not very useful dynamically, so Hyco made a deck extension to cover the access to the aft sphere. That was afterwards. The lesson was obvious, of course. Roger Chapman wrote a book about the event. I've got a copy, and it's a good yarn--especially because it had a happy ending. Vickers was our (Intersub's) primary competitor, and they were some very high end and experienced people. The best. They pulled together all over the UK to get another sub across country from Aberdeen and back on location in the Irish Sea. If you want to know how the Brits ruled the seas for so long, read Roger's book. It's a great example. Grit, seamanship, perseverance...all of that and more. It was an honor to know those guys.
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: JimToddPsub <JimToddPsub at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 5:17 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pisces III rescue story



Antoine,
Very interesting article.  Thanks for posting it.  I wonder what modifications were made to the subs after the incident.
-Jim
 

In a message dated 9/25/2013 6:37:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time, pilotfishp at gmail.com writes:
  
Hi all,    
just came across this fascinating story :
  


  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23862359

  


  


  
regards
  
Antoine
  




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles   mailing   list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130925/35bc59fb/attachment.html>

From a.erikse at gmail.com  Thu Sep 26 21:31:47 2013
From: a.erikse at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Eriksen?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 03:31:47 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Confusing formula in Spreadsheet vs ABS rules
Message-ID: <CAMJapUbAxsYqiH2=6MTuB=Mx9n=bXdoE9iCufbG5qjGr4BhuYA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi !

I have been studying the psub spreadsheat and found a inconsistent formula
compared to the ABS Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles.
It`s in cell *C48: Pm= Von Mises Shell Buckling Pressure for a Cylinder.*

 C48 =2,42*C6*(C26/C17)^2,5/(1-C7^2)^0,75/(C14/C17-0,45*(C26/C17)^0,5)

            ^
The division sign I have highlighted above in the spreadsheet formula
should.. (if you look at the ABS formula section 6 - 19.5.1 Inter-Stiffener
Strenght).. be a Multiplicator.

But changing this gives me a low Maximum psig for inter-stiffeners.


I`m confused! Could someone please explain this? :-)


*Best Regards*
Andr? Eriksen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130927/0980f3f0/attachment.html>

From jonw at psubs.org  Fri Sep 27 00:50:49 2013
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 00:50:49 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Confusing formula in Spreadsheet vs ABS rules
In-Reply-To: <CAMJapUbAxsYqiH2=6MTuB=Mx9n=bXdoE9iCufbG5qjGr4BhuYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMJapUbAxsYqiH2=6MTuB=Mx9n=bXdoE9iCufbG5qjGr4BhuYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52450EA9.2060200@psubs.org>


I think you are correct.  Cliff or Sean, can you confirm?

Jon



On 9/26/2013 9:31 PM, Andr? Eriksen wrote:
> Hi !
>
> I have been studying the psub spreadsheat and found a inconsistent 
> formula compared to the ABS Rules for Building and Classing Underwater 
> Vehicles.
> It`s in cell *C48: Pm= Von Mises Shell Buckling Pressure for a Cylinder.*
>
>  C48 =2,42*C6*(C26/C17)^2,5/(1-C7^2)^0,75/(C14/C17-0,45*(C26/C17)^0,5)
>             ^
> The division sign I have highlighted above in the spreadsheet formula 
> should.. (if you look at the ABS formula section 6 - 19.5.1 
> Inter-Stiffener Strenght).. be a Multiplicator.
>
> But changing this gives me a low Maximum psig for inter-stiffeners.
>
>
> I`m confused! Could someone please explain this? :-)
>
>
> *Best Regards*
> Andr? Eriksen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130927/8a8eb5f9/attachment.html>

From pilotfishp at gmail.com  Fri Sep 27 01:44:09 2013
From: pilotfishp at gmail.com (Antoine Delafargue)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 06:44:09 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Confusing formula in Spreadsheet vs ABS rules
In-Reply-To: <52450EA9.2060200@psubs.org>
References: <CAMJapUbAxsYqiH2=6MTuB=Mx9n=bXdoE9iCufbG5qjGr4BhuYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52450EA9.2060200@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <CAOajxnHkndLW5VS2nKLcXD6hikDL+GUqb5t5KK6N0tRORYFEtg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Andr?,

The spreadsheet is ok,
using a multiplicator sign would be ok but with some extra brackets around
the whole denominator

a/(b*c) = a/b /c


regards
Antoine



On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 5:50 AM, Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> I think you are correct.  Cliff or Sean, can you confirm?
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> On 9/26/2013 9:31 PM, Andr? Eriksen wrote:
>
> Hi !
>
>  I have been studying the psub spreadsheat and found a inconsistent
> formula compared to the ABS Rules for Building and Classing Underwater
> Vehicles.
> It`s in cell *C48: Pm= Von Mises Shell Buckling Pressure for a Cylinder.*
>
>   C48 =2,42*C6*(C26/C17)^2,5/(1-C7^2)^0,75/(C14/C17-0,45*(C26/C17)^0,5)
>
>               ^
> The division sign I have highlighted above in the spreadsheet formula
> should.. (if you look at the ABS formula section 6 - 19.5.1 Inter-Stiffener
> Strenght).. be a Multiplicator.
>
>  But changing this gives me a low Maximum psig for inter-stiffeners.
>
>
>  I`m confused! Could someone please explain this? :-)
>
>
>  *Best Regards*
> Andr? Eriksen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130927/1c1d047e/attachment-0001.html>

From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 28 11:45:19 2013
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada
Message-ID: <1380383119.65575.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I waited until the last minute to see if I could break away and attend, regretfully I can not. It's a shame because, I was very much? looking forward to meeting those attending. I can't go because I have to save the sick call for an upcoming school event.

Aside from the missed introductions, I'm also going to miss the opportunity to photograph varying angle pilot's eye perspectives from both K models, (something that is missing form available public photos, more interior shots as well). I can simulate this in CAD, but its not quite the same. If you guys can do this and post some, it would be most appreciated. How to incorporate two domes, (a hatch dome, and forward dome), on a standard K-350 while concurrently reconfiguring the soft ballast tanks for maximum visibility, is whats foremost on my mind.

Enjoy yourselves and be safe!

Dive one for the Gipper!

Joe
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130928/b445aaab/attachment.html>

From a.erikse at gmail.com  Sat Sep 28 12:50:32 2013
From: a.erikse at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Eriksen?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 18:50:32 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Confusing formula in Spreadsheet vs ABS rules
In-Reply-To: <CAOajxnHkndLW5VS2nKLcXD6hikDL+GUqb5t5KK6N0tRORYFEtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMJapUbAxsYqiH2=6MTuB=Mx9n=bXdoE9iCufbG5qjGr4BhuYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52450EA9.2060200@psubs.org>
 <CAOajxnHkndLW5VS2nKLcXD6hikDL+GUqb5t5KK6N0tRORYFEtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJapUaPOJRd3jWwf3kqkw+4aCLR1+B0YkyyCmQH_6Tcf-=z0w@mail.gmail.com>

You are absolutely right Antoine!

Thanks.


Regards
Andr?


2013/9/27 Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>

> Hi Andr?,
>
> The spreadsheet is ok,
> using a multiplicator sign would be ok but with some extra brackets around
> the whole denominator
>
> a/(b*c) = a/b /c
>
>
> regards
> Antoine
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 5:50 AM, Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think you are correct.  Cliff or Sean, can you confirm?
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/26/2013 9:31 PM, Andr? Eriksen wrote:
>>
>> Hi !
>>
>>  I have been studying the psub spreadsheat and found a inconsistent
>> formula compared to the ABS Rules for Building and Classing Underwater
>> Vehicles.
>> It`s in cell *C48: Pm= Von Mises Shell Buckling Pressure for a Cylinder.*
>>
>>   C48 =2,42*C6*(C26/C17)^2,5/(1-C7^2)^0,75/(C14/C17-0,45*(C26/C17)^0,5)
>>
>>               ^
>> The division sign I have highlighted above in the spreadsheet formula
>> should.. (if you look at the ABS formula section 6 - 19.5.1 Inter-Stiffener
>> Strenght).. be a Multiplicator.
>>
>>  But changing this gives me a low Maximum psig for inter-stiffeners.
>>
>>
>>  I`m confused! Could someone please explain this? :-)
>>
>>
>>  *Best Regards*
>> Andr? Eriksen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


-- 
Med Vennlig Hilsen / Regards
*Andr? Eriksen*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130928/88bbae8a/attachment.html>

From subvet596 at optonline.net  Sat Sep 28 22:33:50 2013
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 02:33:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Triton visit and ride share.
Message-ID: <e670f40921ca0.5247918e@optonline.net>

Hi All:
 
Well I made it to Brunswick, GA tonight MM 38 on I-95. I will be in N. FL early Sunday. I have not heard if their will be a tour at Triton Monday the 30th. If anyone will need a ride I have room.
 
See you Thursday.
 
John K.
(203) 414-1000
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/d9e65ec9/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 29 00:14:26 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 23:14:26 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Triton visit and ride share.
Message-ID: <pl53jvr3440a8c2xwrc66j80.1380428034911@email.android.com>

We are visiting triton Monday at 11:00.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
785-822-2087




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonesubvet596 at optonline.net wrote:Hi All:
?
Well I made it to Brunswick, GA tonight MM 38 on I-95. I will be in N. FL early Sunday. I have not heard if their will be a tour at Triton Monday the 30th. If anyone will need a ride I have room.
?
See you Thursday.
?
John K.
(203) 414-1000
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130928/a213bb25/attachment.html>

From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sun Sep 29 02:02:12 2013
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 02:02:12 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Relevant Area / Emergency Numbers
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnJea_dEaS6g6usCC23bK4Ggs5sQzOOQ9X=ey=6r53YEyg@mail.gmail.com>

The attached document contains a few relevant numbers for the Middle Keys
area. By no means is this a complete list! Cell phone numbers are not
included as I did not have a cell number list as of this evening. My cell
number is 814-758-6825. May not answer at certain times tomorrow as we are
in the process of travel. Safe traveling everyone. ~ Douglas S.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/b35eca99/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PSUBS Phone Directory.docx
Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document
Size: 104174 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/b35eca99/attachment-0001.bin>

From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 29 07:14:12 2013
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 07:14:12 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Triton visit and ride share.
In-Reply-To: <pl53jvr3440a8c2xwrc66j80.1380428034911@email.android.com>
References: <pl53jvr3440a8c2xwrc66j80.1380428034911@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <11389C1D-1A1E-4DE1-A2B3-8E5A21FA0D89@yahoo.com>

Hi Scott,
I am heading down on the auto train with Alec & Snoopy & were
guessing we would be near Triton at mid day Monday. Alec may have a better estimate.
I told Troy at Triton We would be arriving some time around then.
Unfortunately he is off diving the Solomons & PNG but passed the message on.
Have you arranged an official visit for 11am?
Alan


Sent from my iPad

On 29/09/2013, at 12:14 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> We are visiting triton Monday at 11:00.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 785-822-2087
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> subvet596 at optonline.net wrote:
> Hi All:
>  
> Well I made it to Brunswick, GA tonight MM 38 on I-95. I will be in N. FL early Sunday. I have not heard if their will be a tour at Triton Monday the 30th. If anyone will need a ride I have room.
>  
> See you Thursday.
>  
> John K.
> (203) 414-1000
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/2d00362c/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 29 12:57:19 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:57:19 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Triton visit and ride share.
Message-ID: <hmvlxm6e0gv64ncgd8sp5rvp.1380473621990@email.android.com>

Yes. We have arranged a visit at 11:00. We could wait for you guys if you like?
You can call me when you like and we can meet up? 785-822-2087
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:Hi Scott,
I am heading down on the auto train with Alec & Snoopy & were
guessing we would be near Triton at mid day Monday. Alec may have a better estimate.
I told Troy at Triton We would be arriving some time around then.
Unfortunately he is off diving the Solomons & PNG but passed the message on.
Have you arranged an official visit for 11am?
Alan


Sent from my iPad

On 29/09/2013, at 12:14 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

We are visiting triton Monday at 11:00.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
785-822-2087




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

subvet596 at optonline.net wrote:
Hi All:
?
Well I made it to Brunswick, GA tonight MM 38 on I-95. I will be in N. FL early Sunday. I have not heard if their will be a tour at Triton Monday the 30th. If anyone will need a ride I have room.
?
See you Thursday.
?
John K.
(203) 414-1000
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/7c8da82c/attachment.html>

From Alec.Smyth at covisint.com  Sun Sep 29 15:15:58 2013
From: Alec.Smyth at covisint.com (Smyth, Alec)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:15:58 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Triton visit and ride share.
In-Reply-To: <hmvlxm6e0gv64ncgd8sp5rvp.1380473621990@email.android.com>
References: <hmvlxm6e0gv64ncgd8sp5rvp.1380473621990@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <78D439BD-B38B-4CCF-9386-A0FEB1E9FB1A@covisint.com>

Snoopy, Alan, and I are all loaded up on the train, which departs shortly. We get to Sanford, just outside Orlando, at 9:30. Apparently unloading can take up to two hours, but it just depends on our position in the unloading sequence, which we have no idea of. So we'll just have to email with an ETA when we see Snoopy come off.

Cheers,

Alec



On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:59 PM, "swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com<mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com>> wrote:

Yes. We have arranged a visit at 11:00. We could wait for you guys if you like?
You can call me when you like and we can meet up? 785-822-2087
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular(c) Smartphone

Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com<mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>> wrote:
Hi Scott,
I am heading down on the auto train with Alec & Snoopy & were
guessing we would be near Triton at mid day Monday. Alec may have a better estimate.
I told Troy at Triton We would be arriving some time around then.
Unfortunately he is off diving the Solomons & PNG but passed the message on.
Have you arranged an official visit for 11am?
Alan


Sent from my iPad

On 29/09/2013, at 12:14 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com<mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com>> wrote:

We are visiting triton Monday at 11:00.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
785-822-2087




Sent from my U.S. Cellular(c) Smartphone

subvet596 at optonline.net<mailto:subvet596 at optonline.net> wrote:
Hi All:

Well I made it to Brunswick, GA tonight MM 38 on I-95. I will be in N. FL early Sunday. I have not heard if their will be a tour at Triton Monday the 30th. If anyone will need a ride I have room.

See you Thursday.

John K.
(203) 414-1000
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org<mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/cfa1a55a/attachment.html>

From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Sep 29 15:27:12 2013
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 15:27:12 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Triton visit and ride share.
Message-ID: <tl5qec4856un2737ehvy5o83.1380482766677@email.android.com>

Sounds good. Maybe we can all catch up for lunch or supper as well as the triton tour.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:Snoopy, Alan, and I are all loaded up on the train, which departs shortly. We get to Sanford, just outside Orlando, at 9:30. Apparently unloading can take up to two hours, but it just depends on our position in the unloading sequence, which we have no idea of. So we'll just have to email with an ETA when we see Snoopy come off.

Cheers,

Alec



On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:59 PM, "swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Yes. We have arranged a visit at 11:00. We could wait for you guys if you like?
You can call me when you like and we can meet up? 785-822-2087
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Scott,
I am heading down on the auto train with Alec & Snoopy & were
guessing we would be near Triton at mid day Monday. Alec may have a better estimate.
I told Troy at Triton We would be arriving some time around then.
Unfortunately he is off diving the Solomons & PNG but passed the message on.
Have you arranged an official visit for 11am?
Alan


Sent from my iPad

On 29/09/2013, at 12:14 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

We are visiting triton Monday at 11:00.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
785-822-2087




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

subvet596 at optonline.net wrote:
Hi All:
?
Well I made it to Brunswick, GA tonight MM 38 on I-95. I will be in N. FL early Sunday. I have not heard if their will be a tour at Triton Monday the 30th. If anyone will need a ride I have room.
?
See you Thursday.
?
John K.
(203) 414-1000
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/bd7617c2/attachment-0001.html>

From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Sun Sep 29 16:50:40 2013
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Private)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:50:40 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Triton visit and ride share.
In-Reply-To: <tl5qec4856un2737ehvy5o83.1380482766677@email.android.com>
References: <tl5qec4856un2737ehvy5o83.1380482766677@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <C844A34D-FD73-4517-ABE1-13DA1418CD12@gmail.com>

Scott, did you ever get release wording? I'm on the train so could give it a try, but better not to reinvent if you got anything.

Thanks,

Alec



> On Sep 29, 2013, at 3:27 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> Sounds good. Maybe we can all catch up for lunch or supper as well as the triton tour. 
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth at covisint.com> wrote:
> Snoopy, Alan, and I are all loaded up on the train, which departs shortly. We get to Sanford, just outside Orlando, at 9:30. Apparently unloading can take up to two hours, but it just depends on our position in the unloading sequence, which we have no idea of. So we'll just have to email with an ETA when we see Snoopy come off.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2013, at 12:59 PM, "swaters" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yes. We have arranged a visit at 11:00. We could wait for you guys if you like?
>> You can call me when you like and we can meet up? 785-822-2087
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi Scott,
>> I am heading down on the auto train with Alec & Snoopy & were
>> guessing we would be near Triton at mid day Monday. Alec may have a better estimate.
>> I told Troy at Triton We would be arriving some time around then.
>> Unfortunately he is off diving the Solomons & PNG but passed the message on.
>> Have you arranged an official visit for 11am?
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 29/09/2013, at 12:14 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> We are visiting triton Monday at 11:00.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>> 785-822-2087
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>> 
>>> subvet596 at optonline.net wrote:
>>> Hi All:
>>>  
>>> Well I made it to Brunswick, GA tonight MM 38 on I-95. I will be in N. FL early Sunday. I have not heard if their will be a tour at Triton Monday the 30th. If anyone will need a ride I have room.
>>>  
>>> See you Thursday.
>>>  
>>> John K.
>>> (203) 414-1000
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/fbb9ebd7/attachment.html>

From phil at philnuytten.com  Sun Sep 29 22:12:55 2013
From: phil at philnuytten.com (Phil Nuytten)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 19:12:55 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner
In-Reply-To: <090BDC6F-F3FA-4B77-9261-5A5AEADC71AC@yahoo.com>
References: <qnf74kpoc0xae2okh96oulja.1381107841258@email.android.com>
 <F2810B4D-B136-46C2-89CB-5245AA7321B6@yahoo.com>
 <090BDC6F-F3FA-4B77-9261-5A5AEADC71AC@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F8336567F3E8479C9DE7D3B8B04C5216@PhillPC>

When subbing in hot climes, we use an air conditioner and hose into the hull to keep sub cool until hatch closure ? then, if the water temp is high we use multi-pocketed pilot vests with sealed ice packs in the pockets. These are the kind you can refreeze over and over ? the smaller ones used for sports injuries work well. We also cover the DeepWorker domes with a reflective cap ( ?space? blanket also works) while it sits on deck prior to a dive. We did many months of diving off the south Florida coast in summer (for NOAA ) ? it was killer for heat!  
Phil

From: Alan 
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 6:44 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner

Maybe a whole lot of slika pads (not sure if you call them that in the States.)
They wouldn't leave water in the bottom of the hull like ice. If you had a container with a cover
that could be removed & replaced, you could regulate the temperature a bit. 
It would be interesting to compare the amount of cooling you would get from a battery
compared with a block of ice the same size.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 6/10/2013, at 9:30 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:


  The air conditioners in the Tritons have heat exchangers in the water. However you wouldn't
  get much cooling from the water in Florida. You could swim in there all day long, (what a treat.)
  I know they were heavy on the batteries.
  Alan

  Sent from my iPad

  On 6/10/2013, at 9:13 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:


    That is something to think about. How does the subs at Triton or Nuytco put in A/C and heat? Just a big motor and alot of battery power? This whole idea may just not be practical for our subs, but I think worth exploring after I saw Alec amd Steve get out of snoopy the other day. 
    Thanks,
    Scott Waters




    Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

    hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

    Scott, 
    I think it would be simpler to run a house AC unit off an inverter.  It takes at least 5hp to drive an AC pump in a vehicle.  You can also get 12V coolers that might have some potential.  I have the opposite problem, cold, at least we can dress for cold.
    Hank

    From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
    To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
    Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:28:43 PM
    Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air conditioner


    I know basically nothing about HVAC. I am assuming taking a compressor outside of a car and running it on a 36 volt motor and running the tubing on the outside of the sub to disperse heat would consume to much power right? Anyone know how many amps at 36 volt, 24 volt, and 12 volt would be required to do something like this?
    Thanks,
    Scott Waters




    Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

    _______________________________________________
    Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



    _______________________________________________
    Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20130929/fdbda8f7/attachment-0001.html>