From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 05:38:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 10:38:51 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: <20141130203207.80F5A0D3@m0005311.ppops.net> References: <20141130203207.80F5A0D3@m0005311.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, Just out of interest, K boat plans show the hatch dome ending at the inside edge of the ring. However, I made mine exactly as the plans (ordered exactly what it said on the parts list), and the hatch dome ended up right in the middle. Like Alec says, it will distort, particularly the stainless one. I got both the tower and hatch seats machined flat after welding. Happen to have a scan of the K boat hatch here at work. Poor quality, but that's how my plans were\are. Regards James ? On 1 December 2014 at 04:32, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > I'm sort of leaning back towards putting everything in the middle > again. For some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me > feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to be in contact. > Theoretically if your two mating pieces are perfectly flat you wouldn't > even need an o ring ! Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 > > > Brian, > If the hatch dome ends in the center it would. Did you notice how narrow > the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 inch. The hatch ring is the same, I > was surprised to see that. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM > > Seems like if you had the welds in > the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across > the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 > > > And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM > > You would think the weld > point should be directly below the weld point where the > hatch dome meets the ring. This would transfer the load > straight down. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 > PM > > Good information Alec, > thanks ! > I'll have it turned > afterward of course but no need to take > off > more metal than necessary. > > Brian > > --- > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > From: Private via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 > > Careful! If you weld a ring > on the way you describe with the > weld in > the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the > head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a > curved SS > ring. I can tell you from painful > experience the amount of > deflection can be > amazing, we're not talking a few > > hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter inch. > I'd > recommend cutting the head so it > meets the ring at the > outside corner. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > > On Nov 30, 2014, at > 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via > > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > Hank, > > I think I'm > going to have a shop > down the road turn > that elliptical head so that the edge > comes > right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still > need to talk to the welder to see what kind of > edge he > wants. With the hatch I'm > thinking of welding a large > pipe segment on > there because there's nothing to grab onto > for the lathe. > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma > hatch > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 > -0800 > > > > Brian, > > I will look forward to a picture of your > CT and > hatch. In particular I would like > to see how you > transition from the > elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide > > ring. > > Hank > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > > To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, > 10:44 AM > > > > Hi > Hank, > > I bought two > > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 > 1/2" wide (18" id). > Which > > will be welded on to the conning tower > and the hatch, > then a > > > o ring groove put in the hatch side. With the > drop I > > was able to get > 6 - 6" disks which I'm going to > > make > > into electrical inserts that will > go into two of my > > viewports. > > Conning tower getting welded today ( > 8 > viewports) and > > also > working on the other viewports on the sphere, got > two > > welder friends that > I have working on them, both 30+ > years > > of commercial welding experience ! > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma > hatch > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 > -0800 > > > > Brian, > > What did you do for the hatch seat on the > conning > > tower. Is it stainless or > did you do like Gamma > has, a > > layer of stainless welded on. > > Hank > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > > To: "PSubs" > > Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, > 8:30 PM > > > > > Hank, > > > > Do you know how big the shaft is that goes > through the top > > of > your hatch? Have you every had to > > disassemble it > > ? My hatch is > pretty much identical to > Gamma's, > > I'm in the process of cutting in a > little > viewport in > > > and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / > thru hull > > > deal. Seems like at least a 3/4" > > shaft > > would be in > > > order. Brian > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 123.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 107752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 08:04:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: <20141130203207.80F5A0D3@m0005311.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1417439044.54054.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle. At the same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the middle. This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait line down to the hull. When I welded my K350 ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in. I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started with a heavier ring than required. I never use a ss ring, so can't say how it will react. I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more. Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with? Will it be enough? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it. I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance. I would run that idea by an engineer of coarse. Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM Hank, ? ? ???I'm sort of leaning back towards putting everything in the middle again.? For some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to be in contact.? Theoretically if your two mating pieces are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring !? Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 Brian, If the hatch dome ends in the center it would.? Did you notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 inch.? The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to see that. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM Seems like if you had the welds in the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM ? ? You would think the weld ? point should be directly below the weld point where the ? hatch dome meets the ring.? This would transfer the load ? straight down. ? Hank ? -------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: ? "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 ? PM ? ? Good information Alec, ? thanks !? ? I'll have it turned ? afterward of course but no need to take ? off ? more metal than necessary. ? ? Brian ? ? --- ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? ? From: Private via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 ? ? Careful! If you weld a ring ? on the way you describe with the ? weld in ? the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the ? head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a ? curved SS ? ring. I can tell you from painful ? experience the amount of ? deflection can be ? amazing, we're not talking a few ? ? hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter inch. ? I'd ? recommend cutting the head so it ? meets the ring at the ? outside corner. ? ? Best, ? ? Alec ? ? ? ? > On Nov 30, 2014, at ? 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? > ? ? > Hank, ? >? ? ? I think I'm ? going to have a shop ? down the road turn ? that elliptical head so that the edge ? comes ? right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still ? need to talk to the welder to see what kind of ? edge he ? wants.? With the hatch I'm ? thinking of welding a large ? pipe segment on ? there because there's nothing to grab onto ? for the lathe. ? > ? > Brian ? > ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 ? -0800 ? > ? > Brian, ? > I will look forward to a picture of your ? CT and ? hatch.? In particular I would like ? to see how you ? transition from the ? elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide ? ? ring. ? > Hank ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? > ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? > To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, ? 10:44 AM ? > ? > Hi ? Hank, ? >? ? ? ? ? ? I bought two ? > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 ? 1/2" wide (18" id). ? Which ? > will be welded on to the conning tower ? and the hatch, ? then a ? > ? o ring groove put in the hatch side.? With the ? drop I ? > was able to get ? 6? - 6" disks which I'm going to ? ? make ? > into electrical inserts that will ? go into two of my ? > viewports.? ? >???Conning tower getting welded today ( ? 8 ? viewports) and ? > also ? working on the other viewports on the sphere, got ? two ? > welder friends that ? I have working on them, both 30+ ? years ? > of commercial welding experience ! ? > ? > Brian? ? > ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? > wrote: ? > ? > From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 ? -0800 ? > ? > Brian, ? > What did you do for the hatch seat on the ? conning ? > tower.? Is it stainless or ? did you do like Gamma ? has, a ? > layer of stainless welded on.? ? > Hank ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? > wrote: ? > ? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? >? To: "PSubs" ? >? Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, ? 8:30 PM ? > ? >? ? Hank,? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? >? Do you know how big the shaft is that goes ? through the top ? >? of ? your hatch?? Have you every had to ? ? disassemble it ? >? ?? My hatch is ? pretty much identical to ? Gamma's, ? >? I'm in the process of cutting in a ? little ? viewport in ? >? ? and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / ? thru? hull ? >? ? deal.???Seems like at least a 3/4" ? ? shaft ? >? would be in ? ? >? order. Brian ? > ? ? >? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? > ? >? ? _______________________________________________ ? >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? ? > ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? > ? ? > ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? > ? ? > _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? > ? ? > ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 08:20:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 08:20:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: <1417439044.54054.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20141130203207.80F5A0D3@m0005311.ppops.net> <1417439044.54054.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd suggest clamping the ring to something very rigid before welding, and putting down no more bead than strictly necessary. Perhaps Dan Lance can chime in? Thanks, Alec On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 8:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle. At the > same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome > is in the middle. This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait > line down to the hull. When I welded my K350 ring (not ss) it warped just > under 1/8in. I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started > with a heavier ring than required. I never use a ss ring, so can't say how > it will react. I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more. > Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with? Will it > be enough? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to > it. I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance. I would > run that idea by an engineer of coarse. > Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. > Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM > > Hank, > I'm sort of leaning back > towards putting everything in the middle again. For > some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me > feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to > be in contact. Theoretically if your two mating pieces > are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring ! > Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 > > > Brian, > If the hatch dome ends in the center it would. Did you > notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 > inch. The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to > see that. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM > > Seems like if you had the welds in > the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across > the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 > > > And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM > > You would think the weld > point should be directly below the weld point where > the > hatch dome meets the ring. This would transfer the > load > straight down. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 > PM > > Good information Alec, > thanks ! > I'll have it turned > afterward of course but no need to take > off > more metal than necessary. > > Brian > > --- > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > From: Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 > > Careful! If you weld a ring > on the way you describe with the > weld in > the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the > head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a > curved SS > ring. I can tell you from painful > experience the amount of > deflection can be > amazing, we're not talking a few > > hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter > inch. > I'd > recommend cutting the head so it > meets the ring at the > outside corner. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > > On Nov 30, 2014, at > 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via > > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > Hank, > > I think I'm > going to have a shop > down the road turn > that elliptical head so that the edge > comes > right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still > need to talk to the welder to see what kind of > edge he > wants. With the hatch I'm > thinking of welding a large > pipe segment on > there because there's nothing to grab onto > for the lathe. > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma > hatch > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 > -0800 > > > > Brian, > > I will look forward to a picture of your > CT and > hatch. In particular I would like > to see how you > transition from the > elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide > > ring. > > Hank > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > > To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, > 10:44 AM > > > > Hi > Hank, > > I bought two > > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 > 1/2" wide (18" id). > Which > > will be welded on to the conning tower > and the hatch, > then a > > > o ring groove put in the hatch side. With the > drop I > > was able to get > 6 - 6" disks which I'm going to > > make > > into electrical inserts that will > go into two of my > > viewports. > > Conning tower getting welded today ( > 8 > viewports) and > > also > working on the other viewports on the sphere, got > two > > welder friends that > I have working on them, both 30+ > years > > of commercial welding experience ! > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma > hatch > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 > -0800 > > > > Brian, > > What did you do for the hatch seat on the > conning > > tower. Is it stainless or > did you do like Gamma > has, a > > layer of stainless welded on. > > Hank > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > > To: "PSubs" > > Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, > 8:30 PM > > > > > Hank, > > > > Do you know how big the shaft is that goes > through the top > > of > your hatch? Have you every had to > > disassemble it > > ? My hatch is > pretty much identical to > Gamma's, > > I'm in the process of cutting in a > little > viewport in > > > and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / > thru hull > > > deal. Seems like at least a 3/4" > > shaft > > would be in > > > order. Brian > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 12:14:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 12:14:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: References: <20141130203207.80F5A0D3@m0005311.ppops.net> <1417439044.54054.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec hit the nail right on the head . Either clamp or tack weld the ring to a rigid steel table . It will definately warp if not restrained in some manner. Rework is not cost effective . Dan Lance On Dec 1, 2014 8:21 AM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'd suggest clamping the ring to something very rigid before welding, and > putting down no more bead than strictly necessary. Perhaps Dan Lance can > chime in? > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 8:04 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Brian, >> I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle. At the >> same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome >> is in the middle. This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait >> line down to the hull. When I welded my K350 ring (not ss) it warped just >> under 1/8in. I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started >> with a heavier ring than required. I never use a ss ring, so can't say how >> it will react. I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more. >> Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with? Will it >> be enough? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to >> it. I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance. I would >> run that idea by an engineer of coarse. >> Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. >> Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM >> >> Hank, >> I'm sort of leaning back >> towards putting everything in the middle again. For >> some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me >> feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to >> be in contact. Theoretically if your two mating pieces >> are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring ! >> Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 >> >> >> Brian, >> If the hatch dome ends in the center it would. Did you >> notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 >> inch. The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to >> see that. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM >> >> Seems like if you had the welds in >> the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across >> the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 >> >> >> And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM >> >> You would think the weld >> point should be directly below the weld point where >> the >> hatch dome meets the ring. This would transfer the >> load >> straight down. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 >> PM >> >> Good information Alec, >> thanks ! >> I'll have it turned >> afterward of course but no need to take >> off >> more metal than necessary. >> >> Brian >> >> --- >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Private via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 >> >> Careful! If you weld a ring >> on the way you describe with the >> weld in >> the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the >> head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a >> curved SS >> ring. I can tell you from painful >> experience the amount of >> deflection can be >> amazing, we're not talking a few >> >> hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter >> inch. >> I'd >> recommend cutting the head so it >> meets the ring at the >> outside corner. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> >> > On Nov 30, 2014, at >> 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via >> >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> >> > Hank, >> > I think I'm >> going to have a shop >> down the road turn >> that elliptical head so that the edge >> comes >> right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still >> need to talk to the welder to see what kind of >> edge he >> wants. With the hatch I'm >> thinking of welding a large >> pipe segment on >> there because there's nothing to grab onto >> for the lathe. >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> > >> >> > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> > To: Personal Submersibles General >> Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma >> hatch >> > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 >> -0800 >> > >> > Brian, >> > I will look forward to a picture of your >> CT and >> hatch. In particular I would like >> to see how you >> transition from the >> elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide >> >> ring. >> > Hank >> > >> -------------------------------------------- >> > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> > To: "Personal Submersibles General >> Discussion" >> > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, >> 10:44 AM >> > >> > Hi >> Hank, >> > I bought two >> > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 >> 1/2" wide (18" id). >> Which >> > will be welded on to the conning tower >> and the hatch, >> then a >> > >> o ring groove put in the hatch side. With the >> drop I >> > was able to get >> 6 - 6" disks which I'm going to >> >> make >> > into electrical inserts that will >> go into two of my >> > viewports. >> > Conning tower getting welded today ( >> 8 >> viewports) and >> > also >> working on the other viewports on the sphere, got >> two >> > welder friends that >> I have working on them, both 30+ >> years >> > of commercial welding experience ! >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> > wrote: >> > >> > From: hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> > To: Personal Submersibles General >> Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma >> hatch >> > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 >> -0800 >> > >> > Brian, >> > What did you do for the hatch seat on the >> conning >> > tower. Is it stainless or >> did you do like Gamma >> has, a >> > layer of stainless welded on. >> > Hank >> > >> -------------------------------------------- >> > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch >> > To: "PSubs" >> > Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, >> 8:30 PM >> > >> > >> Hank, >> >> >> > Do you know how big the shaft is that goes >> through the top >> > of >> your hatch? Have you every had to >> >> disassemble it >> > ? My hatch is >> pretty much identical to >> Gamma's, >> > I'm in the process of cutting in a >> little >> viewport in >> > >> and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / >> thru hull >> > >> deal. Seems like at least a 3/4" >> >> shaft >> > would be in >> >> > order. Brian >> > >> >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 13:59:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 10:59:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Message-ID: <1417460361.98656.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing. I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 14:17:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 09:17:17 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417460361.98656.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417460361.98656.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing. I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 14:23:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 11:23:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Message-ID: <20141201112340.8104DA1E@m0005297.ppops.net> The stainless seems to do all kinds of crazy stuff when welded, Hopefully there's enough meat on there to deal with any warp-age, clamping or tacking to a flat piece of plate may also be an option. I'll have to take it to a shop that has a big enough lathe to handle it, I've already talked to them about it. That ring was quite costly ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 Brian, I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle. At the same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the middle. This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait line down to the hull. When I welded my K350 ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in. I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started with a heavier ring than required. I never use a ss ring, so can't say how it will react. I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more. Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with? Will it be enough? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it. I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance. I would run that idea by an engineer of coarse. Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM Hank, ? ? ???I'm sort of leaning back towards putting everything in the middle again.? For some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to be in contact.? Theoretically if your two mating pieces are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring !? Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 Brian, If the hatch dome ends in the center it would.? Did you notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 inch.? The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to see that. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM Seems like if you had the welds in the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM ? ? You would think the weld ? point should be directly below the weld point where the ? hatch dome meets the ring.? This would transfer the load ? straight down. ? Hank ? -------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: ? "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 ? PM ? ? Good information Alec, ? thanks !? ? I'll have it turned ? afterward of course but no need to take ? off ? more metal than necessary. ? ? Brian ? ? --- ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? ? From: Private via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 ? ? Careful! If you weld a ring ? on the way you describe with the ? weld in ? the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the ? head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a ? curved SS ? ring. I can tell you from painful ? experience the amount of ? deflection can be ? amazing, we're not talking a few ? ? hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter inch. ? I'd ? recommend cutting the head so it ? meets the ring at the ? outside corner. ? ? Best, ? ? Alec ? ? ? ? > On Nov 30, 2014, at ? 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? > ? ? > Hank, ? >? ? ? I think I'm ? going to have a shop ? down the road turn ? that elliptical head so that the edge ? comes ? right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still ? need to talk to the welder to see what kind of ? edge he ? wants.? With the hatch I'm ? thinking of welding a large ? pipe segment on ? there because there's nothing to grab onto ? for the lathe. ? > ? > Brian ? > ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 ? -0800 ? > ? > Brian, ? > I will look forward to a picture of your ? CT and ? hatch.? In particular I would like ? to see how you ? transition from the ? elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide ? ? ring. ? > Hank ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? > ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? > To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, ? 10:44 AM ? > ? > Hi ? Hank, ? >? ? ? ? ? ? I bought two ? > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 ? 1/2" wide (18" id). ? Which ? > will be welded on to the conning tower ? and the hatch, ? then a ? > ? o ring groove put in the hatch side.? With the ? drop I ? > was able to get ? 6? - 6" disks which I'm going to ? ? make ? > into electrical inserts that will ? go into two of my ? > viewports.? ? >???Conning tower getting welded today ( ? 8 ? viewports) and ? > also ? working on the other viewports on the sphere, got ? two ? > welder friends that ? I have working on them, both 30+ ? years ? > of commercial welding experience ! ? > ? > Brian? ? > ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? > wrote: ? > ? > From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 ? -0800 ? > ? > Brian, ? > What did you do for the hatch seat on the ? conning ? > tower.? Is it stainless or ? did you do like Gamma ? has, a ? > layer of stainless welded on.? ? > Hank ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? > wrote: ? > ? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? >? To: "PSubs" ? >? Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, ? 8:30 PM ? > ? >? ? Hank,? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? >? Do you know how big the shaft is that goes ? through the top ? >? of ? your hatch?? Have you every had to ? ? disassemble it ? >? ?? My hatch is ? pretty much identical to ? Gamma's, ? >? I'm in the process of cutting in a ? little ? viewport in ? >? ? and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / ? thru? hull ? >? ? deal.???Seems like at least a 3/4" ? ? shaft ? >? would be in ? ? >? order. Brian ? > ? ? >? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? > ? >? ? _______________________________________________ ? >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? ? > ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? > ? ? > ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? > ? ? > _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? > ? > ? ? > ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 14:24:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 11:24:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Message-ID: <20141201112453.8104DA30@m0005297.ppops.net> For your arm? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 10:59:21 -0800 Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing. I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 14:41:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 11:41:13 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1417462873.4908.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 14:50:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 06:50:35 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417462873.4908.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417462873.4908.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Swagelok has 6m rolls of it in various wall thicknesses, at least in Australia. You could do an external pressure test on it by capping the ends of a test piece and putting it inside a SCUBA tank... Cheers, Steve On 02/12/2014 6:41 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, > Thank you, > The heaviest they have is .065 > Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM > > Hank, > > Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle > 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy > most of > my non ferrous metals. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, December > 01, 2014 8:59 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier > > Help! > I am > trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing. I am having no > luck, not > even full lengths. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 14:56:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 11:56:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1417463802.68416.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Steve, I think I will have to do just that, do you think a 2 foot length would take as much pressure as a 3 foot length. The cue ball arm is 3 feet and I can't fit that into a scuba tank. Hmm, I think I can get that into my 122 cuft oxygen bottle. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:50 PM Hi Hank, Swagelok has 6m rolls of it in various wall thicknesses, at least in Australia. You could do an external pressure test on it by capping the ends of a test piece and putting it inside a SCUBA tank... Cheers, Steve On 02/12/2014 6:41 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM ?Hank, ?Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle ?1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy ?most of ?my non ferrous metals. ?Rick ?-----Original Message----- ?From: hank pronk via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Monday, December ?01, 2014 8:59 AM ?To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ?Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier ?Help! ?I am ?trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I am having no ?luck, not ?even full lengths. ?Hank ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 15:00:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 10:00:08 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417462873.4908.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417462873.4908.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <24A33BB1CDC943D9A63F648C53305B0B@LandNSeaPC> Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing. I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 15:08:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 07:08:06 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417463802.68416.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417463802.68416.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, It's very bendy - more like wire than tube (this is the seamless annealed stuff) and you could probably bend a 3ft length in half in your hands and still get it though a tank neck. But yeah given the tiny diameter I would reckon even a 1ft length would be heaps, especially since you can test it to way higher than operating pressure. Cheers, Steve On 02/12/2014 6:57 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Steve, > I think I will have to do just that, do you think a 2 foot length would > take as much pressure as a 3 foot length. The cue ball arm is 3 feet and I > can't fit that into a scuba tank. Hmm, I think I can get that into my 122 > cuft oxygen bottle. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:50 PM > > Hi Hank, > > Swagelok has 6m rolls of it in various wall thicknesses, at > least in Australia. You could do an external pressure test > on it by capping the ends of a test piece and putting it > inside a SCUBA tank... > Cheers, > > Steve > On 02/12/2014 6:41 AM, > "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > > > Rick, > > Thank you, > > The heaviest they have is .065 > > Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube > can take. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM > > > > Hank, > > > > Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle > > 1-800-552-7661 the is > where I buy > > most of > > my non ferrous metals. > > > > Rick > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles > > Sent: Monday, December > > 01, 2014 8:59 AM > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier > > > > Help! > > I am > > trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing. I am having > no > > luck, not > > even full lengths. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 16:14:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:14:00 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <24A33BB1CDC943D9A63F648C53305B0B@LandNSeaPC> Message-ID: <1417468440.47208.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 16:18:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:18:17 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: <20141201112340.8104DA1E@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1417468697.87520.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I know that piece is pricy, yikes, that is why I use 516-70 then laminate 1/16 ss to that. I am to cheap to buy the ss ring. :-) Yes the ss tube is for my cue ball arm. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:23 PM The stainless seems to do all kinds of crazy stuff when welded, Hopefully there's enough meat on there to deal with any warp-age, clamping or tacking to a flat piece of plate may also be an option.? I'll have to take it to a shop that has a big enough lathe to handle it, I've already talked to them about it. That ring was quite costly ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 Brian, I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle.? At the same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the middle.? This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait line down to the hull.? When I welded my K350? ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in.? I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started with a heavier ring than required.? I never use a ss ring, so can't say how it will react.? I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more.? Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with?? Will it be enough?? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it.? I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance.? I would run that idea by an engineer of coarse.? Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM Hank, ? ? ???I'm sort of leaning back towards putting everything in the middle again.? For some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to be in contact.? Theoretically if your two mating pieces are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring !? Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 Brian, If the hatch dome ends in the center it would.? Did you notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 inch.? The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to see that. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM ? ? Seems like if you had the welds in ? the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across ? the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 ? ? ? And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. ? Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM ? ? You would think the weld ? point should be directly below the weld point where the ? hatch dome meets the ring.? This would transfer the load ? straight down. ? Hank ? -------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? To: ? "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 ? PM ? ? ? ? Good information Alec, ? thanks !? ? ? I'll have it turned ? afterward of course but no need to take ? ? off ? more metal than necessary. ? ? ? ? Brian ? ? ? ? --- ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? ? ? From: Private via Personal_Submersibles ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 ? ? ? ? Careful! If you weld a ring ? on the way you describe with the ? ? weld in ? the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the ? ? head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a ? curved SS ? ? ring. I can tell you from painful ? experience the amount of ? ? deflection can be ? amazing, we're not talking a few ? ? hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter inch. ? I'd ? ? recommend cutting the head so it ? meets the ring at the ? ? outside corner. ? ? ? ? Best, ? ? ? ? Alec ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > On Nov 30, 2014, at ? 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? > Hank, ? ? >? ? ? I think I'm ? going to have a shop ? ? down the road turn ? that elliptical head so that the edge ? ? comes ? right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still ? ? need to talk to the welder to see what kind of ? edge he ? ? wants.? With the hatch I'm ? thinking of welding a large ? ? pipe segment on ? there because there's nothing to grab onto ? ? for the lathe. ? ? > ? ? > Brian ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > I will look forward to a picture of your ? CT and ? ? hatch.? In particular I would like ? to see how you ? ? transition from the ? elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide ? ? ring. ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? > To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? ? > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, ? 10:44 AM ? ? > ? ? > Hi ? Hank, ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? I bought two ? ? > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 ? 1/2" wide (18" id). ? ? Which ? ? > will be welded on to the conning tower ? and the hatch, ? ? then a ? ? > ? o ring groove put in the hatch side.? With the ? ? drop I ? ? > was able to get ? 6? - 6" disks which I'm going to ? ? make ? ? > into electrical inserts that will ? go into two of my ? ? > viewports.? ? ? >???Conning tower getting welded today ( ? 8 ? ? viewports) and ? ? > also ? working on the other viewports on the sphere, got ? ? two ? ? > welder friends that ? I have working on them, both 30+ ? ? years ? ? > of commercial welding experience ! ? ? > ? ? > Brian? ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > What did you do for the hatch seat on the ? conning ? ? > tower.? Is it stainless or ? did you do like Gamma ? ? has, a ? ? > layer of stainless welded on.? ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? >? To: "PSubs" ? ? >? Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, ? 8:30 PM ? ? > ? ? >? ? Hank,? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? >? Do you know how big the shaft is that goes ? ? through the top ? ? >? of ? your hatch?? Have you every had to ? ? disassemble it ? ? >? ?? My hatch is ? pretty much identical to ? ? Gamma's, ? ? >? I'm in the process of cutting in a ? little ? ? viewport in ? ? >? ? and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / ? ? thru? hull ? ? >? ? deal.???Seems like at least a 3/4" ? ? shaft ? ? >? would be in ? ? >? order. Brian ? ? > ? ? >? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? > ? ? >? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? ? > ? ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 17:12:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 22:12:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417468440.47208.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417468440.47208.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1455763669.2100780.1417471939141.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10038.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,If the 5/8" thickness (.625") was the OD,?then this tube with wall thickness of .065"?can go to 12,699ft or 5,595psi. Doesn't matter if it's 1,2, or 3ft same results.That's according to the "Under Pressure" program.Maybe it bending & breaking is a bigger worry.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 17:22:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 14:22:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1455763669.2100780.1417471939141.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10038.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1417472529.69771.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, Thank you for that, your right it might bend. I could put a reinforcing sleeve in it and epoxy the void. I think I may have found a supplier of the heavier wall stuff. Just waiting to hear back. I have to buy 20 feet, but Dan Lance will take some so that helps. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 5:12 PM Hi Hank,If the 5/8" thickness (.625") was the OD,?then this tube with wall thickness of .065"?can go to 12,699ft or 5,595psi. Doesn't matter if it's 1,2, or 3ft same results.That's according to the "Under Pressure" program.Maybe it bending & breaking is a bigger worry.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 18:57:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:57:05 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417468440.47208.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <24A33BB1CDC943D9A63F648C53305B0B@LandNSeaPC> <1417468440.47208.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <547d005e.6466420a.79b7.3eeb@mx.google.com> Hank, Pipe is measured in schedule Tube is measured in gauge or wall thickness. The tube will be plenty strong enough for pressure but you need to hang a weight on the extended length you need to determine the thickness. What weight do you want to be able to lift? The answer is that the design has already been done by others to optimize length, weight, force reqd to operate. I would stick to that. Again find out what tube size wall thickness etc was on the original cue ball designs. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2014 10:14 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10809 (20141201) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10809 (20141201) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 19:02:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 00:02:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417472529.69771.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417472529.69771.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <140263822.2127543.1417478572758.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100148.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,doesn't it have something running up the inside to operate the grippers?Could you incorporate a tube or rod in to this mechanism to strengthen it?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Hi Alan, Thank you for that, your right it might bend.? I could put a reinforcing sleeve in it and epoxy the void.? I think I may have found a supplier of the heavier wall stuff.? Just waiting to hear back.? I have to buy 20 feet, but Dan Lance will take some so that helps. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 5:12 PM Hi Hank,If the 5/8" thickness (.625") was the OD,?then this tube with wall thickness of .065"?can go to 12,699ft or 5,595psi. Doesn't matter if it's 1,2, or 3ft same results.That's according to the "Under Pressure" program.Maybe it bending & breaking is a bigger worry.Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:14 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier ? ? Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM ? ? Not sure on the pressure ? rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is ? slightly more than 1/8" ? ? Rick ? ? -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier ? ? ? Rick, ? Thank you, ? The heaviest they have is .065 ? Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 ? wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM ? ? Hank, ? ? Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle ? 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy ? most of ? my non ferrous ? metals. ? Rick ? ? -----Original Message----- ? ? From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? Sent: ? Monday, December ? 01, 2014 8:59 AM ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier ? ? Help! ? I am ? trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I ? am having no luck, not ? even ? full lengths. ? Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 20:09:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 17:09:23 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <547d005e.6466420a.79b7.3eeb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1417482563.98575.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hugh, I agree, I am putting the cart before the horse. I am pretty sure about the size though because I have a very good picture of the arm on Nekton Alpha. I have measured the tube against known measurements on the sub. Patience is not my strength :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 6:57 PM Hank, Pipe is measured in schedule Tube is measured in gauge or wall thickness. The tube will be plenty strong enough for pressure but you need to hang a weight on the extended length you need to determine the thickness.? What weight do you want to be able to lift? The answer is that the design has already been done by others to optimize length, weight, force reqd to operate.? I would stick to that.? Again find out what tube size wall thickness etc was on the original cue ball designs. Hugh ? -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2014 10:14 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is? slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065? wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I? am having no? luck, not even? full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10809 (20141201) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10809 (20141201) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 20:30:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 15:30:33 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: <1417468440.47208.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417468440.47208.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank What's most important, the OD or ID? Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 11:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing. I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 20:44:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 01:44:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Message-ID: <948260649.2154414.1417484653181.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100116.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Has anybody got any recomendations on a rotary seal type for my?thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 20:49:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 17:49:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1417484989.8958.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Yes there is an internal rotating rod aprox 3/8in dia, that operates the claw. Rick, I am pretty sure the od is 5/8 and the id is just over 3/8. I have not machined the final cue ball, so I can work with whatever material is available. I suppose the od is most important to maintain range and back pressure. A larger od comes with problems. It seem 3/4 is not to bad to find. I do have a good lead from my regular steel supplier. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:30 PM Hank What's most important, the OD or ID? Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 11:14 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Sced 40 would be awesome, just can't find it yet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 3:00 PM Not sure on the pressure rating but can you go with a schedule 40? which is slightly more than 1/8" Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 9:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Rick, Thank you, The heaviest they have is .065 Any idea what kind of external pressure an .065 wall ss tube can take. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:17 PM Hank, Try Alaska copper and Brass in Seattle 1-800-552-7661 the is where I buy most of my non ferrous metals. Rick -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 8:59 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ss tubing supplier Help! I am trying to find some 1/8 wall 5/8 ss tubing.? I am having no luck, not even full lengths. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 20:54:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 17:54:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <948260649.2154414.1417484653181.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100116.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1417485242.83827.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, It seems that trolling motor seals work pretty good, what about them. Are you planning a high rpm? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM Has anybody got any recomendations on a rotary seal type for my?thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 21:24:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 02:24:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <1417485242.83827.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417485242.83827.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <158368337.2147194.1417487059996.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10058.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,am not going more than 3000rpm.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Alan, It seems that trolling motor seals work pretty good, what about them.? Are you planning a high rpm?? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM Has anybody got any recomendations on a rotary seal type for my?thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 1 21:32:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 02:32:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <1417485242.83827.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417485242.83827.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1914089559.1163593.1417487520179.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10002g.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,what seals do trolling motors use?Would I be better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi internal overpressure?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Alan, It seems that trolling motor seals work pretty good, what about them.? Are you planning a high rpm?? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM Has anybody got any recomendations on a rotary seal type for my?thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 08:33:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 05:33:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <1914089559.1163593.1417487520179.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10002g.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when there is no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them closely to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think it is a simple wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I think that high rpm is going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big prop was the most efficient. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM Hank,what seals do trolling motors use?Would I be better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi internal overpressure?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Alan, It seems that trolling motor seals work pretty good, what about them.? Are you planning a high rpm?? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM Has anybody got any recomendations on a rotary seal type for my?thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 12:33:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 09:33:39 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Message-ID: <20141202093339.80F52688@m0005311.ppops.net> Wierd clear liquid falling from the sky here in So Cal Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 05:33:42 -0800 Alan, That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when there is no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them closely to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think it is a simple wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I think that high rpm is going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big prop was the most efficient. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM Hank,what seals do trolling motors use?Would I be better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi internal overpressure?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Alan, It seems that trolling motor seals work pretty good, what about them.? Are you planning a high rpm?? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM Has anybody got any recomendations on a rotary seal type for my?thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 13:01:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 07:01:32 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <727F52A9-863E-4EEA-9994-5F500498E78C@yahoo.com> Hi Hank, the high rpm is because of the brushless motors I'm wanting to use. I don't want to use a gearbox because of added expense, power loss, noise, maintenance & risk of failure. I did look for a gear box initially but couldn't find a suitable candidate. Looking at other commercial thrusters I saw that they went up to 3000rpm, so have bought bigger BLDC motors that are slower revving & are going to use them at about half their capacity to keep below this. I have one motor & 2 on the way & will do a bit of experimentation with the revs & different props. Fortunately you can test these in water as is, so I don't need a can for each option. I am also looking at the motor canister & seal options though. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/12/2014, at 2:33 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when there is no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them closely to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think it is a simple wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I think that high rpm is going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big prop was the most efficient. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM > > Hank,what seals > do trolling motors use?Would I be > better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi > internal overpressure?Alan > > > > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 2, 2014 2:54 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > > > Alan, > It seems that trolling > motor seals work pretty good, what about them. Are you > planning a high rpm? > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM > > Has anybody got any > recomendations on a rotary > seal type for > my thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker > seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I > am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst > silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& > intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure > above ambient.ThanksAlan > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 13:12:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 13:12:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <727F52A9-863E-4EEA-9994-5F500498E78C@yahoo.com> References: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <727F52A9-863E-4EEA-9994-5F500498E78C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01c001d00e5b$89f7de00$9de79a00$@rr.com> Alan, Where did you buy the BLDC motor from and do they include the inverters? Thanks, Ken Martindale -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:02 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Hi Hank, the high rpm is because of the brushless motors I'm wanting to use. I don't want to use a gearbox because of added expense, power loss, noise, maintenance & risk of failure. I did look for a gear box initially but couldn't find a suitable candidate. Looking at other commercial thrusters I saw that they went up to 3000rpm, so have bought bigger BLDC motors that are slower revving & are going to use them at about half their capacity to keep below this. I have one motor & 2 on the way & will do a bit of experimentation with the revs & different props. Fortunately you can test these in water as is, so I don't need a can for each option. I am also looking at the motor canister & seal options though. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/12/2014, at 2:33 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when there is no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them closely to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think it is a simple wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I think that high rpm is going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big prop was the most efficient. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM > > Hank,what seals > do trolling motors use?Would I be > better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi > internal overpressure?Alan > > > > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 2, 2014 2:54 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > > > Alan, > It seems that trolling > motor seals work pretty good, what about them. Are you > planning a high rpm? > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM > > Has anybody got any > recomendations on a rotary > seal type for > my thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker > seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I > am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst > silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& > intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure > above ambient.ThanksAlan > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 13:40:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 07:40:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <01c001d00e5b$89f7de00$9de79a00$@rr.com> References: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <727F52A9-863E-4EEA-9994-5F500498E78C@yahoo.com> <01c001d00e5b$89f7de00$9de79a00$@rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Ken, I have bought a Turnigy 5065 236kv from Hobby King & have a couple of bigger Turnigy motors on order. The 80 amp electronic speed controller I have, was bought separately. Also bought a unit for programming the ESC & another item that monitors the battery & controls the ESC for testing purposes. Have also bought an arduino board for controlling the ESC. The motors are normally operated from a radio transmitters reciever. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/12/2014, at 7:12 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, Where did you buy the BLDC motor from and do they include the > inverters? > > Thanks, > > Ken Martindale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:02 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > > Hi Hank, > the high rpm is because of the brushless motors I'm wanting to use. > I don't want to use a gearbox because of added expense, power loss, noise, > maintenance & risk of failure. I did look for a gear box initially but > couldn't find a suitable candidate. Looking at other commercial thrusters I > saw that they went up to 3000rpm, so have bought bigger BLDC motors that are > slower revving & are going to use them at about half their capacity to keep > below this. > I have one motor & 2 on the way & will do a bit of experimentation with the > revs & different props. Fortunately you can test these in water as is, so I > don't need a can for each option. > I am also looking at the motor canister & seal options though. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 3/12/2014, at 2:33 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Alan, >> That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when there is > no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them closely > to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think it is a simple > wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I think that high rpm is > going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big prop was the most efficient. > >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM >> >> Hank,what seals >> do trolling motors use?Would I be >> better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi >> internal overpressure?Alan >> >> >> >> >> From: hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> To: Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, >> December 2, 2014 2:54 PM >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> >> >> Alan, >> It seems that trolling >> motor seals work pretty good, what about them. Are you >> planning a high rpm? >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Subject: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM >> >> Has anybody got any >> recomendations on a rotary >> seal type for >> my thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker >> seal pdf & there seems a lot of options.I >> am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst >> silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& >> intend to have about 4 psi internal pressure >> above ambient.ThanksAlan >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 14:01:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:01:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: References: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <727F52A9-863E-4EEA-9994-5F500498E78C@yahoo.com> <01c001d00e5b$89f7de00$9de79a00$@rr.com> Message-ID: <01ca01d00e62$5f052160$1d0f6420$@rr.com> Alan, Thanks for the response. It's my understanding that a BLDC motor requires a three phase inverter to operate which may be different from a motor controller. Assuming you have the right controller BLDC motors are a good choice. They should be more efficient and better reliability since no brushes. You ought to get around 2 HP if run at maximum. Good luck, Ken -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:41 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Hi Ken, I have bought a Turnigy 5065 236kv from Hobby King & have a couple of bigger Turnigy motors on order. The 80 amp electronic speed controller I have, was bought separately. Also bought a unit for programming the ESC & another item that monitors the battery & controls the ESC for testing purposes. Have also bought an arduino board for controlling the ESC. The motors are normally operated from a radio transmitters reciever. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/12/2014, at 7:12 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, Where did you buy the BLDC motor from and do they include the > inverters? > > Thanks, > > Ken Martindale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:02 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > > Hi Hank, > the high rpm is because of the brushless motors I'm wanting to use. > I don't want to use a gearbox because of added expense, power loss, > noise, maintenance & risk of failure. I did look for a gear box > initially but couldn't find a suitable candidate. Looking at other > commercial thrusters I saw that they went up to 3000rpm, so have > bought bigger BLDC motors that are slower revving & are going to use > them at about half their capacity to keep below this. > I have one motor & 2 on the way & will do a bit of experimentation > with the revs & different props. Fortunately you can test these in > water as is, so I don't need a can for each option. > I am also looking at the motor canister & seal options though. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 3/12/2014, at 2:33 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Alan, >> That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when >> there is > no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them > closely to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think > it is a simple wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I > think that high rpm is going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big prop was the most efficient. > >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM >> >> Hank,what seals >> do trolling motors use?Would I be >> better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi internal >> overpressure?Alan >> >> >> >> >> From: hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> To: Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, >> December 2, 2014 2:54 PM >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> >> >> Alan, >> It seems that trolling >> motor seals work pretty good, what about them. Are you planning a >> high rpm? >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Subject: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM >> >> Has anybody got any >> recomendations on a rotary >> seal type for >> my thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there >> seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst >> silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi >> internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline Attachment >> Follows----- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 14:34:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 08:34:44 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <01ca01d00e62$5f052160$1d0f6420$@rr.com> References: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <727F52A9-863E-4EEA-9994-5F500498E78C@yahoo.com> <01c001d00e5b$89f7de00$9de79a00$@rr.com> <01ca01d00e62$5f052160$1d0f6420$@rr.com> Message-ID: <28169AEE-B526-46DD-AA88-E52A6E87264B@yahoo.com> Thanks Ken, yes the electronic speed controller is a 3 phase inverter. I have only recently made a foray in to the World of RC. Certainly interesting, and some seriously neat little gadgets. Amazing power from these tiny motors. The number 50 65 on the motor I mentioned corresponds to diameter & length in mm. So that motor Is 2" diameter for the 2hp. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/12/2014, at 8:01 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > Thanks for the response. > > It's my understanding that a BLDC motor requires a three phase inverter to > operate which may be different from a motor controller. > > Assuming you have the right controller BLDC motors are a good choice. They > should be more efficient and better reliability since no brushes. > > You ought to get around 2 HP if run at maximum. > > Good luck, > > Ken > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:41 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > > Hi Ken, > I have bought a Turnigy 5065 236kv from Hobby King & have a couple of bigger > Turnigy motors on order. > The 80 amp electronic speed controller I have, was bought separately. > Also bought a unit for programming the ESC & another item that monitors the > battery & controls the ESC for testing purposes. Have also bought an > arduino board for controlling the ESC. The motors are normally operated from > a radio transmitters reciever. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 3/12/2014, at 7:12 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Alan, Where did you buy the BLDC motor from and do they include the >> inverters? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ken Martindale >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:02 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> >> Hi Hank, >> the high rpm is because of the brushless motors I'm wanting to use. >> I don't want to use a gearbox because of added expense, power loss, >> noise, maintenance & risk of failure. I did look for a gear box >> initially but couldn't find a suitable candidate. Looking at other >> commercial thrusters I saw that they went up to 3000rpm, so have >> bought bigger BLDC motors that are slower revving & are going to use >> them at about half their capacity to keep below this. >> I have one motor & 2 on the way & will do a bit of experimentation >> with the revs & different props. Fortunately you can test these in >> water as is, so I don't need a can for each option. >> I am also looking at the motor canister & seal options though. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 3/12/2014, at 2:33 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alan, >>> That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when >>> there is >> no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them >> closely to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think >> it is a simple wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I >> think that high rpm is going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big prop > was the most efficient. >> >>> Hank >>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >>> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM >>> >>> Hank,what seals >>> do trolling motors use?Would I be >>> better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi internal >>> overpressure?Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> >>> To: Personal >>> Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, >>> December 2, 2014 2:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: >>> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >>> >>> >>> Alan, >>> It seems that trolling >>> motor seals work pretty good, what about them. Are you planning a >>> high rpm? >>> Hank >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: >>> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >>> To: >>> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >>> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM >>> >>> Has anybody got any >>> recomendations on a rotary >>> seal type for >>> my thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there >>> seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 cst >>> silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 psi >>> internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline Attachment >>> Follows----- >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 15:03:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:03:59 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors Message-ID: <1417550639.7877.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, That is amazing, so much power from such a small motor. My motor is 2hp and weighs 60lbs. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 15:14:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 20:14:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors In-Reply-To: <1417550639.7877.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417550639.7877.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1653933226.2442207.1417551259988.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100118.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,bottom line will be how much bollard thrust I canget with the high revs. Probably will be a bit of?mucking about trying different propellers & kortnozzles.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:03 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motors Alan, That is amazing, so much power from such a small motor.? My motor is 2hp and weighs 60lbs.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 15:26:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:26:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Message-ID: <1417551990.59268.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, What type of compass system are you guys using. I would like to upgrade. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 15:50:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:50:44 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Message-ID: <20141202125044.80F6F50C@m0005299.ppops.net> some type of repeater compass that you could mount away from the metal and send signal to inside Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:26:30 -0800 Hi all, What type of compass system are you guys using. I would like to upgrade. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 16:47:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 13:47:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Message-ID: <20141202134747.80F6EBE7@m0005299.ppops.net> Does anyone know if a durometer of 70 would suffice for a hatch o ring? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:18:17 -0800 Brian, I know that piece is pricy, yikes, that is why I use 516-70 then laminate 1/16 ss to that. I am to cheap to buy the ss ring. :-) Yes the ss tube is for my cue ball arm. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:23 PM The stainless seems to do all kinds of crazy stuff when welded, Hopefully there's enough meat on there to deal with any warp-age, clamping or tacking to a flat piece of plate may also be an option.? I'll have to take it to a shop that has a big enough lathe to handle it, I've already talked to them about it. That ring was quite costly ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 Brian, I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle.? At the same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the middle.? This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait line down to the hull.? When I welded my K350? ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in.? I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started with a heavier ring than required.? I never use a ss ring, so can't say how it will react.? I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more.? Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with?? Will it be enough?? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it.? I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance.? I would run that idea by an engineer of coarse.? Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM Hank, ? ? ???I'm sort of leaning back towards putting everything in the middle again.? For some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to be in contact.? Theoretically if your two mating pieces are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring !? Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 Brian, If the hatch dome ends in the center it would.? Did you notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 inch.? The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to see that. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM ? ? Seems like if you had the welds in ? the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across ? the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 ? ? ? And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. ? Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM ? ? You would think the weld ? point should be directly below the weld point where the ? hatch dome meets the ring.? This would transfer the load ? straight down. ? Hank ? -------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? To: ? "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 ? PM ? ? ? ? Good information Alec, ? thanks !? ? ? I'll have it turned ? afterward of course but no need to take ? ? off ? more metal than necessary. ? ? ? ? Brian ? ? ? ? --- ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? ? ? From: Private via Personal_Submersibles ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 ? ? ? ? Careful! If you weld a ring ? on the way you describe with the ? ? weld in ? the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the ? ? head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a ? curved SS ? ? ring. I can tell you from painful ? experience the amount of ? ? deflection can be ? amazing, we're not talking a few ? ? hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter inch. ? I'd ? ? recommend cutting the head so it ? meets the ring at the ? ? outside corner. ? ? ? ? Best, ? ? ? ? Alec ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > On Nov 30, 2014, at ? 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? > Hank, ? ? >? ? ? I think I'm ? going to have a shop ? ? down the road turn ? that elliptical head so that the edge ? ? comes ? right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still ? ? need to talk to the welder to see what kind of ? edge he ? ? wants.? With the hatch I'm ? thinking of welding a large ? ? pipe segment on ? there because there's nothing to grab onto ? ? for the lathe. ? ? > ? ? > Brian ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > I will look forward to a picture of your ? CT and ? ? hatch.? In particular I would like ? to see how you ? ? transition from the ? elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide ? ? ring. ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? > To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? ? > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, ? 10:44 AM ? ? > ? ? > Hi ? Hank, ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? I bought two ? ? > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 ? 1/2" wide (18" id). ? ? Which ? ? > will be welded on to the conning tower ? and the hatch, ? ? then a ? ? > ? o ring groove put in the hatch side.? With the ? ? drop I ? ? > was able to get ? 6? - 6" disks which I'm going to ? ? make ? ? > into electrical inserts that will ? go into two of my ? ? > viewports.? ? ? >???Conning tower getting welded today ( ? 8 ? ? viewports) and ? ? > also ? working on the other viewports on the sphere, got ? ? two ? ? > welder friends that ? I have working on them, both 30+ ? ? years ? ? > of commercial welding experience ! ? ? > ? ? > Brian? ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > What did you do for the hatch seat on the ? conning ? ? > tower.? Is it stainless or ? did you do like Gamma ? ? has, a ? ? > layer of stainless welded on.? ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? >? To: "PSubs" ? ? >? Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, ? 8:30 PM ? ? > ? ? >? ? Hank,? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? >? Do you know how big the shaft is that goes ? ? through the top ? ? >? of ? your hatch?? Have you every had to ? ? disassemble it ? ? >? ?? My hatch is ? pretty much identical to ? ? Gamma's, ? ? >? I'm in the process of cutting in a ? little ? ? viewport in ? ? >? ? and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / ? ? thru? hull ? ? >? ? deal.???Seems like at least a 3/4" ? ? shaft ? ? >? would be in ? ? >? order. Brian ? ? > ? ? >? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? > ? ? >? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? ? > ? ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 17:05:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 17:05:14 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal In-Reply-To: <28169AEE-B526-46DD-AA88-E52A6E87264B@yahoo.com> References: <1417527222.39791.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <727F52A9-863E-4EEA-9994-5F500498E78C@yahoo.com> <01c001d00e5b$89f7de00$9de79a00$@rr.com> <01ca01d00e62$5f052160$1d0f6420$@rr.com> <28169AEE-B526-46DD-AA88-E52A6E87264B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01e001d00e7c$0d08abb0$271a0310$@rr.com> Nice, Ken -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 2:35 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal Thanks Ken, yes the electronic speed controller is a 3 phase inverter. I have only recently made a foray in to the World of RC. Certainly interesting, and some seriously neat little gadgets. Amazing power from these tiny motors. The number 50 65 on the motor I mentioned corresponds to diameter & length in mm. So that motor Is 2" diameter for the 2hp. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/12/2014, at 8:01 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > Thanks for the response. > > It's my understanding that a BLDC motor requires a three phase > inverter to operate which may be different from a motor controller. > > Assuming you have the right controller BLDC motors are a good choice. > They should be more efficient and better reliability since no brushes. > > You ought to get around 2 HP if run at maximum. > > Good luck, > > Ken > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:41 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal > > Hi Ken, > I have bought a Turnigy 5065 236kv from Hobby King & have a couple of > bigger Turnigy motors on order. > The 80 amp electronic speed controller I have, was bought separately. > Also bought a unit for programming the ESC & another item that > monitors the battery & controls the ESC for testing purposes. Have > also bought an arduino board for controlling the ESC. The motors are > normally operated from a radio transmitters reciever. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 3/12/2014, at 7:12 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Alan, Where did you buy the BLDC motor from and do they include the >> inverters? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ken Martindale >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 1:02 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >> >> Hi Hank, >> the high rpm is because of the brushless motors I'm wanting to use. >> I don't want to use a gearbox because of added expense, power loss, >> noise, maintenance & risk of failure. I did look for a gear box >> initially but couldn't find a suitable candidate. Looking at other >> commercial thrusters I saw that they went up to 3000rpm, so have >> bought bigger BLDC motors that are slower revving & are going to use >> them at about half their capacity to keep below this. >> I have one motor & 2 on the way & will do a bit of experimentation >> with the revs & different props. Fortunately you can test these in >> water as is, so I don't need a can for each option. >> I am also looking at the motor canister & seal options though. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 3/12/2014, at 2:33 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alan, >>> That is an interesting idea, to reverse them. What happens when >>> there is >> no internal pressure, maybe nothing. You would have to look at them >> closely to decide. It has been so long since I saw one, but I think >> it is a simple wiper seal. I have one apart, I can check it out. I >> think that high rpm is going to haunt you. I thought low rpm and big >> prop > was the most efficient. >> >>> Hank >>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >>> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 9:32 PM >>> >>> Hank,what seals >>> do trolling motors use?Would I be >>> better to mount them the other way round, as I have a 4psi internal >>> overpressure?Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> >>> To: Personal >>> Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, >>> December 2, 2014 2:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: >>> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >>> >>> >>> Alan, >>> It seems that trolling >>> motor seals work pretty good, what about them. Are you planning a >>> high rpm? >>> Hank >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Mon, 12/1/14, Alan James via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: >>> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rotary Seal >>> To: >>> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >>> Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 8:44 PM >>> >>> Has anybody got any >>> recomendations on a rotary >>> seal type for >>> my thruster propeller shaft. Looked at the Parker seal pdf & there >>> seems a lot of options.I am wanting to oil compensate using the 3 >>> cst silicone oil that Carsten recomended,& intend to have about 4 >>> psi internal pressure above ambient.ThanksAlan -----Inline >>> Attachment >>> Follows----- >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 17:07:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 17:07:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <20141202125044.80F6F50C@m0005299.ppops.net> References: <20141202125044.80F6F50C@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: The term to search is "fluxgate compass". Best, Alec On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > some type of repeater compass that you could mount away from the metal and > send signal to inside > > Brian > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:26:30 -0800 > > Hi all, > What type of compass system are you guys using. I would like to upgrade. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 17:54:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 14:54:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1417560890.66937.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, What do you use for a compass, I will start with fluxgate compass, thanks' Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/2/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 2, 2014, 5:07 PM The term to search is "fluxgate compass".? Best, Alec On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: some type of repeater compass that you could mount away from the metal and send signal to inside Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:26:30 -0800 Hi all, What type of compass system are you guys using.? I would like to upgrade. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 19:02:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 19:02:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <1417560890.66937.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417560890.66937.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8A35E020-80E8-4532-B42E-98F1D66179C4@gmail.com> I don't have a satisfactory one, so interested in what you might settle on. I've used cheap little electronic ones (worked but quickly failed). I have a flux-gate but never installed it because it's bulky and makes a bothersome noise. There are others that are smaller and quieter. Last time out, I mounted a little compass outside the front viewport, but didn't do a proper job of it so it got off kilter. > On Dec 2, 2014, at 5:54 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > What do you use for a compass, I will start with fluxgate compass, thanks' > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 12/2/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Tuesday, December 2, 2014, 5:07 PM > > The term > to search is "fluxgate compass". > Best, > Alec > On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 3:50 > PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > some type > of repeater compass that you could mount away from the metal > and send signal to inside > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 12:26:30 -0800 > > > > Hi all, > > What type of compass system are you guys using. I would > like to upgrade. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 20:19:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 01:19:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: <20141202134747.80F6EBE7@m0005299.ppops.net> References: <20141202134747.80F6EBE7@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1900531742.1928106.1417569586588.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100184.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian,the "Deep Worker" uses 80 duromer.Here is the Parker o-ring selector pdf link.www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Does anyone know if a durometer of 70 would suffice for a hatch o ring? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:18:17 -0800 Brian, I know that piece is pricy, yikes, that is why I use 516-70 then laminate 1/16 ss to that.? I am to cheap to buy the ss ring. :-) Yes the ss tube is for my cue ball arm. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:23 PM The stainless seems to do all kinds of crazy stuff when welded, Hopefully there's enough meat on there to deal with any warp-age, clamping or tacking to a flat piece of plate may also be an option.? I'll have to take it to a shop that has a big enough lathe to handle it, I've already talked to them about it. That ring was quite costly ! Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 Brian, I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle.? At the same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the middle.? This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait line down to the hull.? When I welded my K350? ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in.? I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started with a heavier ring than required.? I never use a ss ring, so can't say how it will react.? I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more.? Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with?? Will it be enough?? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it.? I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance.? I would run that idea by an engineer of coarse.? Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM ? ? Hank, ? ? ? ???I'm sort of leaning back ? towards putting everything in the middle again.? For ? some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me ? feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to ? be in contact.? Theoretically if your two mating pieces ? are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring !? ? Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 ? ? ? Brian, ? If the hatch dome ends in the center it would.? Did you ? notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 ? inch.? The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to ? see that. ? Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM ? ? Seems like if you had the welds in ? the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across ? the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 ? ? ? And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. ? Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM ? ? ? ? You would think the weld ? ? point should be directly below the weld point where ? the ? ? hatch dome meets the ring.? This would transfer the ? load ? ? straight down. ? ? Hank ? ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: ? ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? To: ? ? "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 ? ? PM ? ? ? ? Good information Alec, ? ? thanks !? ? ? I'll have it turned ? ? afterward of course but no need to take ? ? off ? ? more metal than necessary. ? ? ? ? Brian ? ? ? ? --- ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? From: Private via Personal_Submersibles ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 ? ? ? ? Careful! If you weld a ring ? ? on the way you describe with the ? ? weld in ? ? the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the ? ? head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a ? ? curved SS ? ? ring. I can tell you from painful ? ? experience the amount of ? ? deflection can be ? ? amazing, we're not talking a few ? ? ? ? hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter ? inch. ? ? I'd ? ? recommend cutting the head so it ? ? meets the ring at the ? ? outside corner. ? ? ? ? Best, ? ? ? ? Alec ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > On Nov 30, 2014, at ? ? 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via ? ? ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? ? ? > Hank, ? ? >? ? ? I think I'm ? ? going to have a shop ? ? down the road turn ? ? that elliptical head so that the edge ? ? comes ? ? right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still ? ? need to talk to the welder to see what kind of ? ? edge he ? ? wants.? With the hatch I'm ? ? thinking of welding a large ? ? pipe segment on ? ? there because there's nothing to grab onto ? ? for the lathe. ? ? > ? ? > Brian ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? ? ? > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 ? ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > I will look forward to a picture of your ? ? CT and ? ? hatch.? In particular I would like ? ? to see how you ? ? transition from the ? ? elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide ? ? ? ? ring. ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? > To: "Personal Submersibles General ? ? Discussion" ? ? > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, ? ? 10:44 AM ? ? > ? ? > Hi ? ? Hank, ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? I bought two ? ? > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 ? ? 1/2" wide (18" id). ? ? Which ? ? > will be welded on to the conning tower ? ? and the hatch, ? ? then a ? ? > ? ? o ring groove put in the hatch side.? With the ? ? drop I ? ? > was able to get ? ? 6? - 6" disks which I'm going to ? ? ? ? make ? ? > into electrical inserts that will ? ? go into two of my ? ? > viewports.? ? ? >???Conning tower getting welded today ( ? ? 8 ? ? viewports) and ? ? > also ? ? working on the other viewports on the sphere, got ? ? two ? ? > welder friends that ? ? I have working on them, both 30+ ? ? years ? ? > of commercial welding experience ! ? ? > ? ? > Brian? ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 ? ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > What did you do for the hatch seat on the ? ? conning ? ? > tower.? Is it stainless or ? ? did you do like Gamma ? ? has, a ? ? > layer of stainless welded on.? ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? >? To: "PSubs" ? ? >? Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, ? ? 8:30 PM ? ? > ? ? >? ? ? Hank,? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? >? Do you know how big the shaft is that goes ? ? through the top ? ? >? of ? ? your hatch?? Have you every had to ? ? ? ? disassemble it ? ? >? ?? My hatch is ? ? pretty much identical to ? ? Gamma's, ? ? >? I'm in the process of cutting in a ? ? little ? ? viewport in ? ? >? ? ? and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / ? ? thru? hull ? ? >? ? ? deal.???Seems like at least a 3/4" ? ? ? ? shaft ? ? >? would be in ? ? ? ? >? order. Brian ? ? > ? ? ? ? >? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? ? ? > ? ? >? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? > ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? > ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? > ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 22:05:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 19:05:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Message-ID: <20141202190504.80F38ACC@m0048136.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 22:36:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 03:36:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: <20141202190504.80F38ACC@m0048136.ppops.net> References: <20141202190504.80F38ACC@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1496495080.617456.1417577790270.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10096.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian,I am not an expert but in case no one else says anything,I have heard you get a better seal with a softer o-ring at shallower depths.So the 70 might be better for you. The Deep Worker is going down to 2000ft.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Alan,?????????? The outfit that I go through were out of the 80 durometer? ( 19" in dia), but they had the 70.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 01:19:46 +0000 (UTC) Brian,the "Deep Worker" uses 80 duromer.Here is the Parker o-ring selector pdf link.www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Does anyone know if a durometer of 70 would suffice for a hatch o ring? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:18:17 -0800 Brian, I know that piece is pricy, yikes, that is why I use 516-70 then laminate 1/16 ss to that.? I am to cheap to buy the ss ring. :-) Yes the ss tube is for my cue ball arm. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/1/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:23 PM The stainless seems to do all kinds of crazy stuff when welded, Hopefully there's enough meat on there to deal with any warp-age, clamping or tacking to a flat piece of plate may also be an option.? I'll have to take it to a shop that has a big enough lathe to handle it, I've already talked to them about it. That ring was quite costly ! Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 Brian, I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the middle.? At the same time, I feel better if the CT is also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the middle.? This way all the force from the hatch is in a strait line down to the hull.? When I welded my K350? ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in.? I have to assume the designer allowed for that and started with a heavier ring than required.? I never use a ss ring, so can't say how it will react.? I would assume it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more.? Your starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up with?? Will it be enough?? I would consider making a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it.? I am assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion resistance.? I would run that idea by an engineer of coarse.? Maybe your welders have a technique to reduce warp age. Do you have a lathe big enough to machine this? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 11:32 PM ? ? Hank, ? ? ? ???I'm sort of leaning back ? towards putting everything in the middle again.? For ? some reason the wider the hatch ring the better it makes me ? feel, not sure why that is, maybe just more surface area to ? be in contact.? Theoretically if your two mating pieces ? are perfectly flat you wouldn't even need an o ring !? ? Also, my welder wants me to put it in the middle. ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:51:28 -0800 ? ? ? Brian, ? If the hatch dome ends in the center it would.? Did you ? notice how narrow the land is on Gamma, it is like 3/4 ? inch.? The hatch ring is the same, I was surprised to ? see that. ? Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 6:09 PM ? ? Seems like if you had the welds in ? the center the pressure would be distributed evenly across ? the 1 1/2" land and hatch ring. ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:55:45 -0800 ? ? ? And that point is generally at the outer edge of the land. ? Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 11/30/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:54 PM ? ? ? ? You would think the weld ? ? point should be directly below the weld point where ? the ? ? hatch dome meets the ring.? This would transfer the ? load ? ? straight down. ? ? Hank ? ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: ? ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? To: ? ? "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, 1:51 ? ? PM ? ? ? ? Good information Alec, ? ? thanks !? ? ? I'll have it turned ? ? afterward of course but no need to take ? ? off ? ? more metal than necessary. ? ? ? ? Brian ? ? ? ? --- ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? From: Private via Personal_Submersibles ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:30:18 -0500 ? ? ? ? Careful! If you weld a ring ? ? on the way you describe with the ? ? weld in ? ? the middle, the weld shrinkage on either side of the ? ? head wall can bend the SS, leaving you with a ? ? curved SS ? ? ring. I can tell you from painful ? ? experience the amount of ? ? deflection can be ? ? amazing, we're not talking a few ? ? ? ? hundredths... In my case it was about a quarter ? inch. ? ? I'd ? ? recommend cutting the head so it ? ? meets the ring at the ? ? outside corner. ? ? ? ? Best, ? ? ? ? Alec ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > On Nov 30, 2014, at ? ? 11:36 AM, Brian Cox via ? ? ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? ? ? > Hank, ? ? >? ? ? I think I'm ? ? going to have a shop ? ? down the road turn ? ? that elliptical head so that the edge ? ? comes ? ? right in the middle of the bottom of the ring, still ? ? need to talk to the welder to see what kind of ? ? edge he ? ? wants.? With the hatch I'm ? ? thinking of welding a large ? ? pipe segment on ? ? there because there's nothing to grab onto ? ? for the lathe. ? ? > ? ? > Brian ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? ? ? > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:57:38 ? ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > I will look forward to a picture of your ? ? CT and ? ? hatch.? In particular I would like ? ? to see how you ? ? transition from the ? ? elliptical portion to the 1 1/2in wide ? ? ? ? ring. ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sun, 11/30/14, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? wrote: ? ? > ? ? ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? > To: "Personal Submersibles General ? ? Discussion" ? ? > Received: Sunday, November 30, 2014, ? ? 10:44 AM ? ? > ? ? > Hi ? ? Hank, ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? I bought two ? ? > stainless rings 1/2" thick by 1 ? ? 1/2" wide (18" id). ? ? Which ? ? > will be welded on to the conning tower ? ? and the hatch, ? ? then a ? ? > ? ? o ring groove put in the hatch side.? With the ? ? drop I ? ? > was able to get ? ? 6? - 6" disks which I'm going to ? ? ? ? make ? ? > into electrical inserts that will ? ? go into two of my ? ? > viewports.? ? ? >???Conning tower getting welded today ( ? ? 8 ? ? viewports) and ? ? > also ? ? working on the other viewports on the sphere, got ? ? two ? ? > welder friends that ? ? I have working on them, both 30+ ? ? years ? ? > of commercial welding experience ! ? ? > ? ? > Brian? ? ? > ? ? > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? > From: hank pronk via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? > To: Personal Submersibles General ? ? Discussion ? ? > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ? ? hatch ? ? > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:39:19 ? ? -0800 ? ? > ? ? > Brian, ? ? > What did you do for the hatch seat on the ? ? conning ? ? > tower.? Is it stainless or ? ? did you do like Gamma ? ? has, a ? ? > layer of stainless welded on.? ? ? > Hank ? ? > ? ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? > On Sat, 11/29/14, Brian Cox via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? > wrote: ? ? > ? ? >? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch ? ? >? To: "PSubs" ? ? >? Received: Saturday, November 29, 2014, ? ? 8:30 PM ? ? > ? ? >? ? ? Hank,? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? >? Do you know how big the shaft is that goes ? ? through the top ? ? >? of ? ? your hatch?? Have you every had to ? ? ? ? disassemble it ? ? >? ?? My hatch is ? ? pretty much identical to ? ? Gamma's, ? ? >? I'm in the process of cutting in a ? ? little ? ? viewport in ? ? >? ? ? and also that rotating hatch closure shaft / ? ? thru? hull ? ? >? ? ? deal.???Seems like at least a 3/4" ? ? ? ? shaft ? ? >? would be in ? ? ? ? >? order. Brian ? ? > ? ? ? ? >? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? ? ? > ? ? >? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? > ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? > ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? > ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? > ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? 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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 2 23:32:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 23:32:39 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch In-Reply-To: <20141202134747.80F6EBE7@m0005299.ppops.net> References: <20141202134747.80F6EBE7@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian: I am using 70 durometer by 1/4" O-ring material. 80 might be to hard to compress properly. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 2, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Does anyone know if a durometer of 70 would suffice for a hatch o ring? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:18:17 -0800 > > Brian, > I know that piece is pricy, yikes, that is why I use 516-70 then laminate 1/16 ss to that. I am to cheap to buy the ss ring. :-) Yes the ss tube is for my cue ball arm. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:23 PM > > The stainless seems to do all kinds > of crazy stuff when welded, Hopefully there's enough meat on > there to deal with any warp-age, clamping or tacking to a > flat piece of plate may also be an option. I'll have > to take it to a shop that has a big enough lathe to handle > it, I've already talked to them about it. That ring was > quite costly ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote:- > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 > > Brian, > I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the > middle. At the same time, I feel better if the CT is > also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the > middle. This way all the force from the hatch is in a > strait line down to the hull. When I welded my > K350 ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in. I > have to assume the designer allowed for that and started > with a heavier ring than required. I never use a ss > ring, so can't say how it will react. I would assume > it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more. Your > starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up > with? Will it be enough? I would consider making > a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it. I am > assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion > resistance. I From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 00:09:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 21:09:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Message-ID: <20141202210943.80F279FB@m0005312.ppops.net> Thanks ! If it turns out to be a problem I can always change it out later. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 23:32:39 -0500 Brian: I am using 70 durometer by 1/4" O-ring material. 80 might be to hard to compress properly. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 2, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Does anyone know if a durometer of 70 would suffice for a hatch o ring? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:18:17 -0800 > > Brian, > I know that piece is pricy, yikes, that is why I use 516-70 then laminate 1/16 ss to that. I am to cheap to buy the ss ring. :-) Yes the ss tube is for my cue ball arm. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/1/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 1, 2014, 2:23 PM > > The stainless seems to do all kinds > of crazy stuff when welded, Hopefully there's enough meat on > there to deal with any warp-age, clamping or tacking to a > flat piece of plate may also be an option. I'll have > to take it to a shop that has a big enough lathe to handle > it, I've already talked to them about it. That ring was > quite costly ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote:- > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma hatch > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 05:04:04 -0800 > > Brian, > I have to agree about feeling better with the ring in the > middle. At the same time, I feel better if the CT is > also in the middle and the hatch dome is in the > middle. This way all the force from the hatch is in a > strait line down to the hull. When I welded my > K350 ring (not ss) it warped just under 1/8in. I > have to assume the designer allowed for that and started > with a heavier ring than required. I never use a ss > ring, so can't say how it will react. I would assume > it will warp at least 1/8 inch maybe more. Your > starting with 1/2 inch material, what will you end up > with? Will it be enough? I would consider making > a steel ring, then bolt the ss ring to it. I am > assuming the ss ring is simply for corrosion > resistance. I _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 13:28:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:28:56 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass Message-ID: <1417631336.66972.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to use them. It seems they would not be effected by a submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very big. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 13:33:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:33:14 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass Message-ID: <20141203103314.80F69A75@m0005309.ppops.net> I think the part your missing is that they are very expensive. brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:28:56 -0800 Hi all, Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to use them. It seems they would not be effected by a submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very big. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 13:42:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim Todd via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 12:42:14 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass In-Reply-To: <1417631336.66972.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417631336.66972.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, They're not all that big. Almost every airplane I've ever flown had one. The only ones that did not didn't have a starter either. Go to a small local airport and someone will hand you one to look at. Or you could just get a 1" solid state accelerometer to feed into a display. There are some discussions of all the above in old threads. I'll send a link or two when I'm home again. Cheers, Jim T. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 3, 2014, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to use them. It seems they would not be effected by a submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very big. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 13:48:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 13:48:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass In-Reply-To: <1417631336.66972.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417631336.66972.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great solution if you can afford it. Alec On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to use them. It > seems they would not be effected by a submarine hull. What am I missing > besides they are very big. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 13:57:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 10:57:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1417633042.13480.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is how to make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is a nice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would be awesome in a big sub. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great solution if you can afford it.? Alec? On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to use them.? It seems they would not be effected by a submarine hull.? What am I missing besides they are very big. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 14:00:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 11:00:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1417633240.95142.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jim, anyone, How does an aircraft radio compass work. -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/3/14, Jim Todd via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:42 PM Hank, They're not all that big. Almost every airplane I've ever flown had one. The only ones that did not didn't have a starter either. Go to a small local airport and someone will hand you one to look at.? Or you could just get a 1" solid state accelerometer to feed into a display. There are some discussions of all the above in old threads. I'll send a link or two when I'm home again. Cheers, Jim T. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 3, 2014, at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to use them.? It seems they would not be effected by a submarine hull.? What am I missing besides they are very big. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 14:46:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 03 Dec 2014 19:46 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass In-Reply-To: <1417633042.13480.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417633042.13480.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1XwFsL-0Y8GOG0@fwd01.t-online.de> Gyros in aricraft are not north stable - they need a magnetic compass or other device to set course. But they are okay if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They can hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay for a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven you can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as in Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For other voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap - between 100-800 USD - but most of them work not proper. They are build out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without any waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters.. Good solution if you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. They are much bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm. Volume at minimum 36 liter. They need no calibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is that they normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them - make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can be damaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD second hand. There life time is limited 30000 - 40000 hours between first failtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big error because of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USD from a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it and its run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will in most cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarine with strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheap devices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary on the sensor spot in mind and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch on and off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro in combination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay 100 USD item will not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is how to make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is a nice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would be awesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it. > Alec > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them. It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 15:07:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 12:07:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass In-Reply-To: <1XwFsL-0Y8GOG0@fwd01.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1417637245.24432.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thank you Carsten, Well that settles it, I am back to the fluid filled ball magnetic compass that Gamma came with. Hmm seems like simple is best Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/3/14, Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 2:46 PM Gyros in aricraft are?not north stable - they need a magnetic?compass or other device to set course. But?they are okay ?if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They can hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay for a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven you can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as in Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For other voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap - between 100-800?USD - but most of them work not proper. They are build out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without any waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters.. Good solution if you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. They are much?bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm. Volume at minimum 36 liter. They need no calibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is that they normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them - make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can be damaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD second hand. ?There life time is limited 30000 -? 40000 hours between first failtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big error because of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USD from a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it and its run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will in most cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarine with strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheap devices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary on the sensor spot in mind?and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch on and off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same? one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro in combination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay 100 USD item will?not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is how to make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is a nice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would be awesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it.? > Alec? > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them.? It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull.? What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 16:24:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 21:24:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller Message-ID: <685800599.2848288.1417641893144.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I put some specs through an online propeller calculator,& I am told I need a 6" prop with a 3" pitch to match my 2 hp motor that revs at 3000rpm.?I checked on other calculators & they also indicate around this size & pitch.With a kort nozzle there would be more load on the motor so maybe an even smaller propelleror pitch is required.Best I can find is a Yamaha 2hp 7&1/4" plastic prop with 4" pitch.I am wanting to experiment with a few props around this size & will probably reduce theirdiameter to see what effect it has.Any suggestions for an off the shelf prop that might be suitable, or advice?Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 3 23:47:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 12:47:26 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller In-Reply-To: <685800599.2848288.1417641893144.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <685800599.2848288.1417641893144.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <547FE75E.6020600@archivale.com> With an accelerating nozzle (designed to enhance mass flow and thrust), you need coarser pitch for the same rpm. With a decelerating nozzle (designed to suppress cavitation), speed through the rotor plane is lower so finer pitch is needed. Marc On 12/4/2014 5:24 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I put some specs through an online propeller calculator, > & I am told I need a 6" prop with a 3" pitch to match my 2 hp motor that > revs at 3000rpm. > I checked on other calculators & they also indicate around this size & > pitch. > With a kort nozzle there would be more load on the motor so maybe an > even smaller propeller > or pitch is required. > Best I can find is a Yamaha 2hp 7&1/4" plastic prop with 4" pitch. > I am wanting to experiment with a few props around this size & will > probably reduce their > diameter to see what effect it has. > Any suggestions for an off the shelf prop that might be suitable, or advice? > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 4 01:20:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 06:20:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller In-Reply-To: <547FE75E.6020600@archivale.com> References: <547FE75E.6020600@archivale.com> Message-ID: <1904277473.2984720.1417674012533.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Marc that's helpful.I could find that the 4" pitch may work well in the kort nozzle then.Alan From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller With an accelerating nozzle (designed to enhance mass flow and thrust), you need coarser pitch for the same rpm. With a decelerating nozzle (designed to suppress cavitation), speed through the rotor plane is lower so finer pitch is needed. Marc On 12/4/2014 5:24 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I put some specs through an online propeller calculator, > & I am told I need a 6" prop with a 3" pitch to match my 2 hp motor that > revs at 3000rpm. > I checked on other calculators & they also indicate around this size & > pitch. > With a kort nozzle there would be more load on the motor so maybe an > even smaller propeller > or pitch is required. > Best I can find is a Yamaha 2hp 7&1/4" plastic prop with 4" pitch. > I am wanting to experiment with a few props around this size & will > probably reduce their > diameter to see what effect it has. > Any suggestions for an off the shelf prop that might be suitable, or advice? > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 4 14:18:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 08:18:11 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller In-Reply-To: <1904277473.2984720.1417674012533.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <547FE75E.6020600@archivale.com> <1904277473.2984720.1417674012533.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5480b386.0e23460a.6e90.ffff9543@mx.google.com> Alan, try bow thruster propellers. They are designed for working at low water speeds and in tubes. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 4 December 2014 7:20 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller Thanks Marc that's helpful. I could find that the 4" pitch may work well in the kort nozzle then. Alan _____ From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller With an accelerating nozzle (designed to enhance mass flow and thrust), you need coarser pitch for the same rpm. With a decelerating nozzle (designed to suppress cavitation), speed through the rotor plane is lower so finer pitch is needed. Marc On 12/4/2014 5:24 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I put some specs through an online propeller calculator, > & I am told I need a 6" prop with a 3" pitch to match my 2 hp motor that > revs at 3000rpm. > I checked on other calculators & they also indicate around this size & > pitch. > With a kort nozzle there would be more load on the motor so maybe an > even smaller propeller > or pitch is required. > Best I can find is a Yamaha 2hp 7&1/4" plastic prop with 4" pitch. > I am wanting to experiment with a few props around this size & will > probably reduce their > diameter to see what effect it has. > Any suggestions for an off the shelf prop that might be suitable, or advice? > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10823 (20141204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10826 (20141204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 4 14:55:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 19:55:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller In-Reply-To: <5480b386.0e23460a.6e90.ffff9543@mx.google.com> References: <5480b386.0e23460a.6e90.ffff9543@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <770699048.3187752.1417722916181.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10090.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Hugh,had a look at some of the ducted props & they seem a lot different in design from the normal ones.One of my problems is I am trying to get away with not using a gear box, & need a verylow pitch prop to compensate.Will have a look around the marine chandleries & see what's on small motors & look at ductedprops if they have any.Might take a cresent with me:)Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller #yiv1368643028 #yiv1368643028 -- _filtered #yiv1368643028 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1368643028 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1368643028 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1368643028 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv1368643028 #yiv1368643028 p.yiv1368643028MsoNormal, #yiv1368643028 li.yiv1368643028MsoNormal, #yiv1368643028 div.yiv1368643028MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv1368643028 a:link, #yiv1368643028 span.yiv1368643028MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1368643028 a:visited, #yiv1368643028 span.yiv1368643028MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1368643028 p.yiv1368643028MsoAcetate, #yiv1368643028 li.yiv1368643028MsoAcetate, #yiv1368643028 div.yiv1368643028MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv1368643028 span.yiv1368643028EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv1368643028 span.yiv1368643028BalloonTextChar {}#yiv1368643028 .yiv1368643028MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv1368643028 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv1368643028 div.yiv1368643028WordSection1 {}#yiv1368643028 Alan, try bow thruster propellers.? They are designed for working at low water speeds and in tubes. ? ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 4 December 2014 7:20 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller ?Thanks Marc that's helpful.I could find that the 4" pitch may work well in the kort nozzle then.Alan ?From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Propeller With an accelerating nozzle (designed to enhance mass flow and thrust), you need coarser pitch for the same rpm. With a decelerating nozzle (designed to suppress cavitation), speed through the rotor plane is lower so finer pitch is needed. Marc On 12/4/2014 5:24 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I put some specs through an online propeller calculator, > & I am told I need a 6" prop with a 3" pitch to match my 2 hp motor that > revs at 3000rpm. > I checked on other calculators & they also indicate around this size & > pitch. > With a kort nozzle there would be more load on the motor so maybe an > even smaller propeller > or pitch is required. > Best I can find is a Yamaha 2hp 7&1/4" plastic prop with 4" pitch. > I am wanting to experiment with a few props around this size & will > probably reduce their > diameter to see what effect it has. > Any suggestions for an off the shelf prop that might be suitable, or advice? > Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10823 (20141204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10826 (20141204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10826 (20141204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 7 08:19:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 14:19:55 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass In-Reply-To: <1XwFsL-0Y8GOG0@fwd01.t-online.de> Message-ID: I got good results with a (raymarine) fluxgate. The sensor is placed in the all aluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from the hull) and the readout can placed anywhere. It can electronically compensate 10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel. The sistership has the sensor in a short mast also with good results. Attached a sketch of the pressuretight sensor housing. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 3 december 2014 20:46 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass Gyros in aricraft are not north stable - they need a magnetic compass or other device to set course. But they are okay if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They can hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay for a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven you can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as in Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For other voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap - between 100-800 USD - but most of them work not proper. They are build out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without any waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters.. Good solution if you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. They are much bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm. Volume at minimum 36 liter. They need no calibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is that they normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them - make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can be damaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD second hand. There life time is limited 30000 - 40000 hours between first failtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big error because of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USD from a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it and its run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will in most cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarine with strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheap devices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary on the sensor spot in mind and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch on and off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro in combination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay 100 USD item will not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is how to make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is a nice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would be awesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it. > Alec > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them. It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Raytheon_compass_housing.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6867 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 7 13:32:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 18:32:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <675837434.3857286.1417977132116.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10098.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Emile,did you have it displaying on a Raymarine screen?Can I feed this in to a plc & display it on a screen easily?It is saying...... COMPASS ? | ? | ? | SeaTalk1?The?Fluxgate Compass?transducer is compatible with the ST40 and ST60+ instruments on the SeaTalk1?network. The transducer simply connects to the back of one of the following instruments: - ST40 Compass - ST60+ Compass ? | | ?SeaTalkng?The?Fluxgate Compass?transducer is?compatible with the?i70?,?ST70?and?ST70+?instruments on the SeaTalkng?network via an?iTC-5 transducer converter?(sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5 which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The?iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng?backbone.?Note that if your system contains an SPX autopilot the?Fluxgate Compass?should connect directly?to the course computer and not the iTC-5.Alan | From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass #yiv5125938640 #yiv5125938640 -- _filtered #yiv5125938640 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv5125938640 #yiv5125938640 p.yiv5125938640MsoNormal, #yiv5125938640 li.yiv5125938640MsoNormal, #yiv5125938640 div.yiv5125938640MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5125938640 a:link, #yiv5125938640 span.yiv5125938640MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5125938640 a:visited, #yiv5125938640 span.yiv5125938640MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5125938640 span.yiv5125938640E-mailStijl17 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv5125938640 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv5125938640 div.yiv5125938640Section1 {}#yiv5125938640 I got good results with a(raymarine) fluxgate. ?The sensor is placed in the all aluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from thehull) and the readout can placed anywhere. It can electronically compensate10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel. ?The sistership has the sensor in ashort mast also with good results. ? Attached a sketch of thepressuretight sensor housing. ? Regards, Emile ? ? Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens " Carsten Standfu? "via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 3 december2014 20:46 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope compass ? Gyros in aricraft are?not north stable - theyneed a magnetic?compass or other device to set course. But?they areokay ?if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. Theycan hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okayfor a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum drivenyou can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums asin Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. Forother voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimescheap - between 100-800?USD - but most of them work not proper. They arebuild out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and withoutany waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters .. Good solutionif you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplusdealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100%humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. Theyare much?bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm . Volume at minimum 36 liter . They need nocalibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is thatthey normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them -make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can bedamaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD secondhand. ?There life time is limited 30000 -? 40000 hours between firstfailtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big errorbecause of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USDfrom a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it andits run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will inmost cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarinewith strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheapdevices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary onthe sensor spot in mind?and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch onand off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same? one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro incombination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay100 USD item will?not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is howto make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is anice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would beawesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it.? > Alec? > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them.? It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull.? What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 7 14:00:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 11:00:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's cart Message-ID: <1417978830.52447.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Finally, Gamma,s cart is done, hill climbing test went good and the hand brake holds perfectly. I should be able to drive Gamma right up onto the trailer. I may have traction problems because I am using a standard truck differential with no posi track. I can lock the planetary but it will make it hard to steer and rob a ton of power. Pictures are under Gamma restoration. The ballast tanks are not made yet because I can't decide how I want to do it. The tanks on the cart are for reducing the weight of the cart and are air holding tanks for the ballast tanks if I go that rout. The yellow paint is the water line when Gamma will float off. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 7 14:14:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 11:14:37 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass In-Reply-To: <675837434.3857286.1417977132116.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10098.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <675837434.3857286.1417977132116.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10098.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1417979677.20120.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I used a similar flux gate compass setup for the R300 as mentioned by Emile with similar results. I use a Ocean Server OS5000. http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html I designed a 1-atm anodized aluminum (6061) housing that is externally mounted to the pressure hull behind the viewport. Like Emile, I found that the steel hull affected the results by about 5-10 degrees but the unit has an "hard iron" calibration process to calibrate out the error. I plan on using the same unit for the R500. BTW, the sensor also gives the tilt, roll and temperature in addition to the heading. For my application, I have the electrical connections coming through an electrical penetrator and then connect via an RS232 connection to my PLC. In the PLC ladder logic, I have to parse an ASCII string to extract the four measurements. Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass Hi Emile, did you have it displaying on a Raymarine screen? Can I feed this in to a plc & display it on a screen easily? It is saying...... COMPASS SeaTalk1 The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the ST40 and ST60+ instruments on the SeaTalk1 network. The transducer simply connects to the back of one of the following instruments: * ST40 Compass * ST60+ Compass SeaTalkng The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the i70 , ST70 and ST70+ instruments on the SeaTalkng network via an iTC-5 transducer converter (sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5 which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng backbone. Note that if your system contains an SPX autopilot the Fluxgate Compass should connect directly to the course computer and not the iTC-5. Alan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass I got good results with a (raymarine) fluxgate. The sensor is placed in the all aluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from the hull) and the readout can placed anywhere. It can electronically compensate 10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel. The sistership has the sensor in a short mast also with good results. Attached a sketch of the pressuretight sensor housing. Regards, Emile Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens " Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 3 december 2014 20:46 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass Gyros in aricraft are not north stable - they need a magnetic compass or other device to set course. But they are okay if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They can hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay for a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven you can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as in Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For other voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap - between 100-800 USD - but most of them work not proper. They are build out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without any waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters .. Good solution if you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. They are much bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm . Volume at minimum 36 liter . They need no calibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is that they normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them - make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can be damaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD second hand. There life time is limited 30000 - 40000 hours between first failtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big error because of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USD from a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it and its run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will in most cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarine with strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheap devices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary on the sensor spot in mind and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch on and off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro in combination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay 100 USD item will not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is how to make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is a nice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would be awesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it. > Alec > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them. It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 7 20:11:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 17:11:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Message-ID: <20141207171153.80F47E54@m0005311.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 7 21:11:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:11:37 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop In-Reply-To: <20141207171153.80F47E54@m0005311.ppops.net> References: <20141207171153.80F47E54@m0005311.ppops.net> Message-ID: <548508D9.3030806@archivale.com> One U-joint causes a 1/rev vibration which can be quite severe. To get smooth action, you need a pair of U-joints, and the input and output shafts need to be parallel. That, or you need to substitute a constant-velocity joint for the U-joint. Marc On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Has anyone ever had any experience or seen a propeller that can > change orientation using a U joint at the end of the propeller shaft? > If could just get 15 degrees or so I might be able to eliminate my > rudder assembly altogether. > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 03:51:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:51:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass In-Reply-To: <1417979677.20120.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417979677.20120.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <620676054.4017470.1418028660495.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10056.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff,it must be do-able then.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass I used a similar flux gate compass setup for the R300 as mentioned by Emile with similar results.? I use a Ocean Server OS5000. http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html? I designed a 1-atm anodized aluminum (6061) housing that is externally mounted to the pressure hull behind the viewport.? Like Emile, I found that the steel hull affected the results by about 5-10 ?degrees but the unit has an "hard iron" calibration process to calibrate out the error.? I plan on using the same unit for the R500.? BTW, the sensor also gives the tilt, roll and temperature in addition to the heading.? For my application, I have the electrical connections coming through an electrical penetrator and then connect via an RS232 connection to my PLC.? In the PLC ladder logic, I have to parse an ASCII string to extract the four measurements.? ?Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass Hi Emile,did you have it displaying on a Raymarine screen?Can I feed this in to a plc & display it on a screen easily?It is saying...... COMPASS ? | ? | ? | SeaTalk1?The?Fluxgate Compass?transducer is compatible with the ST40 and ST60+ instruments on the SeaTalk1?network. The transducer simply connects to the back of one of the following instruments: - ST40 Compass - ST60+ Compass ? | | ?SeaTalkng?The?Fluxgate Compass?transducer is?compatible with the?i70?,?ST70?and?ST70+?instruments on the SeaTalkng?network via an?iTC-5 transducer converter?(sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5 which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The?iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng?backbone.?Note that if your system contains an SPX autopilot the?Fluxgate Compass?should connect directly?to the course computer and not the iTC-5.Alan | From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass #yiv3296736411 -- filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv3296736411 p.yiv3296736411MsoNormal, #yiv3296736411 li.yiv3296736411MsoNormal, #yiv3296736411 div.yiv3296736411MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3296736411 a:link, #yiv3296736411 span.yiv3296736411MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3296736411 a:visited, #yiv3296736411 span.yiv3296736411MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3296736411 span.yiv3296736411E-mailStijl17 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;}#yiv3296736411 filtered {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv3296736411 div.yiv3296736411Section1 {}#yiv3296736411 I got good results with a(raymarine) fluxgate. ?The sensor is placed in the all aluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from thehull) and the readout can placed anywhere. It can electronically compensate10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel. ?The sistership has the sensor in ashort mast also with good results. ? Attached a sketch of thepressuretight sensor housing. ? Regards, Emile ? ? Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens " Carsten Standfu? "via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 3 december2014 20:46 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope compass ? Gyros in aricraft are?not north stable - theyneed a magnetic?compass or other device to set course. But?they areokay ?if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. Theycan hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okayfor a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum drivenyou can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums asin Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. Forother voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimescheap - between 100-800?USD - but most of them work not proper. They arebuild out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and withoutany waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters .. Good solutionif you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplusdealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100%humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. Theyare much?bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm . Volume at minimum 36 liter . They need nocalibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is thatthey normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them -make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can bedamaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD secondhand. ?There life time is limited 30000 -? 40000 hours between firstfailtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big errorbecause of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USDfrom a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it andits run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will inmost cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarinewith strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheapdevices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary onthe sensor spot in mind?and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch onand off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same? one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro incombination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay100 USD item will?not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is howto make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is anice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would beawesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it.? > Alec? > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them.? It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull.? What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 10:03:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 07:03:11 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Message-ID: <20141208070311.810A9799@m0005297.ppops.net> That's probably the reason I've never seen one. I'm hoping that with two props I'll be able to turn by just running one prop or the other. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:11:37 +0800 One U-joint causes a 1/rev vibration which can be quite severe. To get smooth action, you need a pair of U-joints, and the input and output shafts need to be parallel. That, or you need to substitute a constant-velocity joint for the U-joint. Marc On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Has anyone ever had any experience or seen a propeller that can > change orientation using a U joint at the end of the propeller shaft? > If could just get 15 degrees or so I might be able to eliminate my > rudder assembly altogether. > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 11:09:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:09:44 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop In-Reply-To: <20141208070311.810A9799@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1418054984.86017.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, If your motors are in cans, can't you turn the can? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/8/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 8, 2014, 10:03 AM That's probably the reason I've never seen one.? I'm hoping that with two props I'll be able to turn by just running one prop or the other.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:11:37 +0800 One U-joint causes a 1/rev vibration which can be quite severe. To get smooth action, you need a pair of U-joints, and the input and output shafts need to be parallel. That, or you need to substitute a constant-velocity joint for the U-joint. Marc On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? ? ? Has anyone ever had any experience or seen a propeller that can > change orientation using a U joint at the end of the propeller shaft? > If could just get 15 degrees or so I might be able to eliminate my > rudder assembly altogether. > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 13:18:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 10:18:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Message-ID: <20141208101846.80FD4CAF@m0048136.ppops.net> No, I'm running shafts back along each bottom sides of the sphere. I found an area between the body of my ballast structure and the sphere where there is space to tuck in the motors nicely and still keep everything with in the profile. I still may put some rudders on if I can't turn the thing. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:09:44 -0800 Brian, If your motors are in cans, can't you turn the can? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/8/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 8, 2014, 10:03 AM That's probably the reason I've never seen one.? I'm hoping that with two props I'll be able to turn by just running one prop or the other.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:11:37 +0800 One U-joint causes a 1/rev vibration which can be quite severe. To get smooth action, you need a pair of U-joints, and the input and output shafts need to be parallel. That, or you need to substitute a constant-velocity joint for the U-joint. Marc On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? ? ? Has anyone ever had any experience or seen a propeller that can > change orientation using a U joint at the end of the propeller shaft? > If could just get 15 degrees or so I might be able to eliminate my > rudder assembly altogether. > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 14:04:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 19:04:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop In-Reply-To: <20141208101846.80FD4CAF@m0048136.ppops.net> References: <20141208101846.80FD4CAF@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1001508122.4191869.1418065492091.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,are the motors near the middle of the sub?You will be able to turn a lot easier if they are.You could always make a scale model & push it at the point of the motor placement?& see how easily it turns.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop No, I'm running shafts back along each bottom sides of the sphere.? I found an area between the body of my ballast structure and the sphere where there is space to tuck in the motors nicely and still keep everything with in the profile.? I still may put some rudders on if I can't turn the thing. Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:09:44 -0800 Brian, If your motors are in cans, can't you turn the can? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/8/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 8, 2014, 10:03 AM That's probably the reason I've never seen one.? I'm hoping that with two props I'll be able to turn by just running one prop or the other.? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:11:37 +0800 One U-joint causes a 1/rev vibration which can be quite severe. To get smooth action, you need a pair of U-joints, and the input and output shafts need to be parallel. That, or you need to substitute a constant-velocity joint for the U-joint. Marc On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? ? ? Has anyone ever had any experience or seen a propeller that can > change orientation using a U joint at the end of the propeller shaft? > If could just get 15 degrees or so I might be able to eliminate my > rudder assembly altogether. > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 16:24:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 13:24:07 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Message-ID: <20141208132407.78719ED@m0005310.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 19:05:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 18:05:22 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass In-Reply-To: <1417631336.66972.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1417631336.66972.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I know that I'm a bit late ton the discussion. Alec is right, almost all aircraft gyros are driven by vacuum. The electricly driven ones are newer and more expensive. Carsten is correct, they will precess from 1 to 3 degrees per hour and you need to set heading before diving. Mine was about $850 US used but only two years old. Best Regards, My two cents! Jim K On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 12:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to use them. It > seems they would not be effected by a submarine hull. What am I missing > besides they are very big. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 19:16:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 16:16:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart Message-ID: <1418084168.47092.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 12/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's cart > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Sunday, December 7, 2014, 2:00 PM > Finally, > Gamma,s cart is done, hill climbing test went good and the > hand brake holds perfectly.? I should be able to drive > Gamma right up onto the trailer.? I may have traction > problems because I am using a standard truck differential > with no posi track.? I can lock the planetary but it > will make it hard to steer and rob a ton of power.? > Pictures are under Gamma restoration. The ballast tanks are > not made yet because I can't decide how I want to do it. The > tanks on the cart are for reducing the weight of the cart > and are air holding tanks for the ballast tanks if I go that > rout.? The yellow paint is the water line when Gamma > will float off. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 19:41:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 00:41:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart In-Reply-To: <1418084168.47092.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418084168.47092.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2084438953.4294191.1418085700685.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100147.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> That's looking good Hank.very clever, bet you had a good time testing it out.Posted your link to make it easier to find it.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/ Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:16 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart --- On Sun, 12/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's cart > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Sunday, December 7, 2014, 2:00 PM > Finally, > Gamma,s cart is done, hill climbing test went good and the > hand brake holds perfectly.? I should be able to drive > Gamma right up onto the trailer.? I may have traction > problems because I am using a standard truck differential > with no posi track.? I can lock the planetary but it > will make it hard to steer and rob a ton of power.? > Pictures are under Gamma restoration. The ballast tanks are > not made yet because I can't decide how I want to do it. The > tanks on the cart are for reducing the weight of the cart > and are air holding tanks for the ballast tanks if I go that > rout.? The yellow paint is the water line when Gamma > will float off. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 20:54:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 17:54:15 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart In-Reply-To: <2084438953.4294191.1418085700685.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100147.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418090055.28366.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Thank you for posting the link, my computer won't let me :-( Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/8/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 8, 2014, 7:41 PM That's looking good Hank.very clever, bet you had a good time testing it out.Posted your link to make it easier to find it.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/ Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:16 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart --- On Sun, 12/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's cart > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Sunday, December 7, 2014, 2:00 PM > Finally, > Gamma,s cart is done, hill climbing test went good and the > hand brake holds perfectly.? I should be able to drive > Gamma right up onto the trailer.? I may have traction > problems because I am using a standard truck differential > with no posi track.? I can lock the planetary but it > will make it hard to steer and rob a ton of power.? > Pictures are under Gamma restoration. The ballast tanks are > not made yet because I can't decide how I want to do it. The > tanks on the cart are for reducing the weight of the cart > and are air holding tanks for the ballast tanks if I go that > rout.? The yellow paint is the water line when Gamma > will float off. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 20:58:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 12:58:27 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop In-Reply-To: <20141208132407.78719ED@m0005310.ppops.net> References: <20141208132407.78719ED@m0005310.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, >From my experience driving my dive club's (2t) boat with twin engines, using them to steer is not very effective at all. And thinking about it, to turn, the stern needs to have a sideways force on it, which is only very marginal from a straight drive shaft, i.e. imagine holding even a small boat at the stern in the water and and trying to pivot it around the stern. Much harder than trying to push the stern sideways to turn it. Cheers, Steve On 09/12/2014 8:25 AM, "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alan, > I do have a model, but the sub has evolved a bit from when > I made the model. At this point I'm basically committed to my design and > I'll have to work with what I have. It's all good, can't wait to play with > it, my welder did another viewport flange yesterday, and I have another guy > finishing up the conning tower.. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 19:04:52 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Brian, > are the motors near the middle of the sub? > You will be able to turn a lot easier if they are. > You could always make a scale model & push it at the point of the motor > placement > & see how easily it turns. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 9, 2014 7:18 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop > > No, I'm running shafts back along each bottom sides of the sphere. I > found an area between the body of my ballast structure and the sphere where > there is space to tuck in the motors nicely and still keep everything with > in the profile. I still may put some rudders on if I can't turn the thing. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:09:44 -0800 > > Brian, > If your motors are in cans, can't you turn the can? > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/8/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, December 8, 2014, 10:03 AM > > That's probably the reason I've never > seen one. I'm hoping that with two props I'll be able > to turn by just running one prop or the other. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop > Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:11:37 +0800 > > One U-joint causes a 1/rev vibration which can be quite > severe. To get > smooth action, you need a pair of U-joints, and the input > and output > shafts need to be parallel. > > That, or you need to substitute a constant-velocity joint > for the U-joint. > > Marc > > On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Has anyone ever had any experience > or seen a propeller that can > > change orientation using a U joint at the end of the > propeller shaft? > > If could just get 15 degrees or so I might be able to > eliminate my > > rudder assembly altogether. > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 8 23:07:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 20:07:15 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] U joint prop Message-ID: <20141208200715.2C2D6722@m0005299.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 02:37:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 08:37:25 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass In-Reply-To: <675837434.3857286.1417977132116.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10098.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I have just a simple readout. But the compass sensor can be fed into more sophisticated navigation electronics and can control a rudder actuator. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 7 december 2014 19:32 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass Hi Emile, did you have it displaying on a Raymarine screen? Can I feed this in to a plc & display it on a screen easily? It is saying...... COMPASS Fluxgate Compass transducer to ST60+ SeaTalk1 The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the ST40 and ST60+ instruments on the SeaTalk1 network. The transducer simply connects to the back of one of the following instruments: * ST40 Compass * ST60+ Compass SeaTalkng The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the i70 , ST70 and ST70+ instruments on the SeaTalkng network via an iTC-5 transducer converter (sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5 which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng backbone. Note that if your system contains an SPX autopilot the Fluxgate Compass should connect directly to the course computer and not the iTC-5. Alan _____ From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass I got good results with a (raymarine) fluxgate. The sensor is placed in the all aluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from the hull) and the readout can placed anywhere. It can electronically compensate 10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel. The sistership has the sensor in a short mast also with good results. Attached a sketch of the pressuretight sensor housing. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens " Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 3 december 2014 20:46 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass Gyros in aricraft are not north stable - they need a magnetic compass or other device to set course. But they are okay if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They can hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay for a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven you can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as in Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For other voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap - between 100-800 USD - but most of them work not proper. They are build out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without any waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters .. Good solution if you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. They are much bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm . Volume at minimum 36 liter . They need no calibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is that they normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them - make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can be damaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD second hand. There life time is limited 30000 - 40000 hours between first failtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big error because of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USD from a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it and its run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will in most cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarine with strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheap devices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary on the sensor spot in mind and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch on and off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro in combination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay 100 USD item will not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is how to make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is a nice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would be awesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it. > Alec > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them. It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 03:06:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 08:06:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1806812852.4358752.1418112398710.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10054.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Emile,so if you feed your compass data to your rudder actuator via a processor, you canbe programed to safely return to port if incapacitated. :)Alan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass #yiv2849145876 #yiv2849145876 -- -- filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv2849145876 filtered {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv2849145876 _filtered #yiv2849145876 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2849145876 {font-family:Wingdings;panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} _filtered #yiv2849145876 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2849145876 {font-family:Verdana;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2849145876 {font-family:inherit;panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}#yiv2849145876 #yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876MsoNormal, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876MsoNormal, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 h3 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:13.5pt;}#yiv2849145876 a:link, #yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 a:visited, #yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal1, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal1, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal2, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal2, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal2 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal3, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal3, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal3 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal4, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal4, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal4 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal5, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal5, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal5 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal6, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal6, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal6 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876msohyperlink2 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal7, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal7, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal7 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876msohyperlink3 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 p.yiv2849145876msonormal8, #yiv2849145876 li.yiv2849145876msonormal8, #yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876msonormal8 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876msohyperlink4 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876msohyperlinkfollowed2 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876e-mailstijl171 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;}#yiv2849145876 span.yiv2849145876E-mailStijl37 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} _filtered #yiv2849145876 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv2849145876 div.yiv2849145876Section1 {}#yiv2849145876 _filtered #yiv2849145876 {} _filtered #yiv2849145876 {font-family:Symbol;}#yiv2849145876 ol {margin-bottom:0cm;}#yiv2849145876 ul {margin-bottom:0cm;}#yiv2849145876 Alan, ? I have just a simplereadout. But the compass sensor can be fed into more sophisticated navigation electronicsand can control a rudder actuator. ? Emile ? Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 7 december 201419:32 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope/fluxgate compass ? HiEmile, didyou have it displaying on a Raymarine screen? CanI feed this in to a plc & display it on a screen easily? Itis saying...... COMPASS ? | ? | ? | SeaTalk1 ? The?Fluxgate Compass?transducer is compatible with the ST40 and ST60+ instruments on the SeaTalk1?network. The transducer simply connects to the back of one of the following instruments: - ST40 Compass - ST60+ Compass ? | | ? SeaTalkng ? The?Fluxgate Compass?transducer is?compatible with the?i70?,?ST70?and?ST70+?instruments on the SeaTalkng?network via an?iTC-5 transducer converter?(sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5 which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The?iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng?backbone. ? Note that if your system contains an SPX autopilot the?Fluxgate Compass?should connect directly?to the course computer and not the iTC-5. Alan | ? From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion' Sent: Monday, December 8, 20142:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope/fluxgate compass ? I got goodresults with a (raymarine) fluxgate. ?The sensor is placed in the allaluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from the hull) and the readout can placedanywhere. It canelectronically compensate 10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel. ?Thesistership has the sensor in a short mast also with good results. ? Attached asketch of the pressuretight sensor housing. ? Regards, Emile ? ? ? Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens " Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 3 december2014 20:46 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope compass ? Gyros in aricraft are?not north stable - they need amagnetic?compass or other device to set course. But?they are okay?if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They canhold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay fora slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven youcan not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as inSpurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For othervoltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap- between 100-800?USD - but most of them work not proper. They are buildout of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without anywaranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters .. Good solutionif you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealerwith a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. Theyare much?bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm . Volume at minimum 36 liter . They need nocalibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is thatthey normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them -make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can bedamaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD secondhand. ?There life time is limited 30000 -? 40000 hours between firstfailtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big errorbecause of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USDfrom a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it andits run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will inmost cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarinewith strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheapdevices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary onthe sensor spot in mind?and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch onand off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same? one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro incombination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay100 USD item will?not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is howto make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is anice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would beawesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it.? > Alec? > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them.? It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull.? What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 14:36:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 11:36:34 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Message-ID: <1418153794.81163.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am looking for a 36 in ish dia acrylic dome. The dome will not be a pressure dome. I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome. The dome will act as the new ballast tank. I discovered that sitting in the front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it were not for the steel ballast tank. Any leads would be appreciated. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 14:50:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 19:50:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <1418153794.81163.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418153794.81163.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <888591125.4582671.1418154611156.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100144.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,these people have some options.They have a standard 1/4" thick 36" diameter product. Are you going to be able to get out of your sub should the ballast tank break?Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics Plastic Domes and Spheres | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality...Acrylic Domes, Plastic Domes & Hemispheres HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders Plastic Bell Jars Camer... | | | | View on plastic-domes-spheres... | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | ? Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:36 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Hi all, I am looking for a 36 in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome will not be a pressure dome.? I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act as the new ballast tank.? I discovered that sitting in the front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it were not for the steel ballast tank.? Any leads would be appreciated. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 15:01:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 12:01:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <888591125.4582671.1418154611156.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100144.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418155292.78451.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank. Also I could drop the lead weight that is in the front. I found a company in Calgary (3hr away) that will blow me a dome 3/8 thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier one still, but it's a start. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 PM Hi Hank,these people have some options.They have a standard 1/4" thick 36" diameter product. Are you going to be able to get out of your sub should the ballast tank break?Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics Plastic Domes and Spheres ???????Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality...Acrylic Domes, Plastic Domes & Hemispheres HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders Plastic Bell Jars Camer...View on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview by Yahoo?? Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:36 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Hi all, I am looking for a 36 in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome will not be a pressure dome.? I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act as the new ballast tank.? I discovered that sitting in the front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it were not for the steel ballast tank.? Any leads would be appreciated. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 15:06:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 12:06:28 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <888591125.4582671.1418154611156.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100144.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418155588.67698.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Thanks' for the lead, I will see if they can do heavier Hank.-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 PM Hi Hank,these people have some options.They have a standard 1/4" thick 36" diameter product. Are you going to be able to get out of your sub should the ballast tank break?Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics Plastic Domes and Spheres ???????Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality...Acrylic Domes, Plastic Domes & Hemispheres HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders Plastic Bell Jars Camer...View on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview by Yahoo?? Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:36 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Hi all, I am looking for a 36 in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome will not be a pressure dome.? I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act as the new ballast tank.? I discovered that sitting in the front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it were not for the steel ballast tank.? Any leads would be appreciated. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 15:12:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 20:12:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <1418155292.78451.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418155292.78451.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1475556022.1389854.1418155963094.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,are you just replacing that conical bolt on portion at the front?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Alan, As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank.? Also I could drop the lead weight that is in the front.? I found a company in Calgary (3hr away)? that will blow me a dome 3/8 thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier one still, but it's a start.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 PM Hi Hank,these people have some options.They have a standard 1/4" thick 36" diameter product. Are you going to be able to get out of your sub should the ballast tank break?Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics Plastic Domes and Spheres ???????Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality...Acrylic Domes, Plastic Domes & Hemispheres HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders Plastic Bell Jars Camer...View on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview by Yahoo?? Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:36 AM ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? Hi all, I am looking for a 36 in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome will not be a pressure dome.? I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act as the new ballast tank.? I discovered that sitting in the front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it were not for the steel ballast tank.? Any leads would be appreciated. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 15:32:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 12:32:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <1475556022.1389854.1418155963094.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418157165.93160.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I plan to remove the entire tank ahead of the vent valve. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 3:12 PM Hank,are you just replacing that conical bolt on portion at the front?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Alan, As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank.? Also I could drop the lead weight that is in the front.? I found a company in Calgary (3hr away)? that will blow me a dome 3/8 thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier one still, but it's a start.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 PM Hi Hank,these people have some options.They have a standard 1/4" thick 36" diameter product. Are you going to be able to get out of your sub should the ballast tank break?Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics Plastic Domes and Spheres ???????Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality...Acrylic Domes, Plastic Domes & Hemispheres HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders Plastic Bell Jars Camer...View on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview by Yahoo?? Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:36 AM ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? Hi all, I am looking for a 36 in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome will not be a pressure dome.? I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act as the new ballast tank.? I discovered that sitting in the front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it were not for the steel ballast tank.? Any leads would be appreciated. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 16:02:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 21:02:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <1418157165.93160.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418157165.93160.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1996820096.4588192.1418158950008.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100182.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> So are you going to mount the dome with it's flange on?ie. weld on a circle of bolts & have a soft gasket that the domesits on & then another gasket & a ?retaining ring?The reason I ask is that the retaining ring could also be used in the?dome forming process to clamp the dome down & save youa bit of money.?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Alan, I plan to remove the entire tank ahead of the vent valve. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 3:12 PM Hank,are you just replacing that conical bolt on portion at the front?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? Alan, As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank.? Also I could drop the lead weight that is in the front.? I found a company in Calgary (3hr away)? that will blow me a dome 3/8 thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier one still, but it's a start.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 PM ? ? Hi Hank,these ? people have some options.They have ? a standard 1/4" thick 36" diameter product. ? Are you going to be able to get out of your sub should the ballast ? tank break?Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics ? Plastic Domes and Spheres ???????Plastic ? Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California ? Quality...Acrylic Domes, Plastic Domes & ? Hemispheres HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders Plastic ? Bell Jars Camer...View ? on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview ? by Yahoo?? ? Alan ? ?? ? ? From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:36 AM ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? Hi all, ? I am looking for a 36 ? in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome will not be a pressure ? dome.? I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act as ? the new ballast tank.? I discovered that sitting in the ? front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it ? were not for the steel ballast tank.? ? Any ? leads would be appreciated. Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 16:45:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 13:45:37 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <1996820096.4588192.1418158950008.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100182.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418161537.4842.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I was thinking about welding a ring to the remaining section of steel ballast tank, then place the dome with a small flange on the ring. Then another ring to clamp the dome's flange. I don't like the idea of drilling the flange. I got a price from Vancouver, 664 dollars for the 3/8 thick dome. Got another price for 1/2 in dome from Nova Scotia 1,000 dollars US plus shipping. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 4:02 PM So are you going to mount the dome with it's flange on?ie. weld on a circle of bolts & have a soft gasket that the domesits on & then another gasket & a ?retaining ring?The reason I ask is that the retaining ring could also be used in the?dome forming process to clamp the dome down & save youa bit of money.?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Alan, I plan to remove the entire tank ahead of the vent valve. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 3:12 PM Hank,are you just replacing that conical bolt on portion at the front?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? Alan, As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank.? Also I could drop the lead weight that is in the front.? I found a company in Calgary (3hr away)? that will blow me a dome 3/8 thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier one still, but it's a start.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 PM ? ? Hi Hank,these ? people have some options.They have ? a standard 1/4" thick 36" diameter product. ? Are you going to be able to get out of your sub should the ballast ? tank break?Plastic Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics ? Plastic Domes and Spheres ???????Plastic ? Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California ? Quality...Acrylic Domes, Plastic Domes & ? Hemispheres HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders Plastic ? Bell Jars Camer...View ? on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview ? by Yahoo?? ? Alan ? ?? ? ? From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:36 AM ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? Hi all, ? I am looking for a 36 ? in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome will not be a pressure ? dome.? I intend to remove the front ballast tank from Gamma and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act as ? the new ballast tank.? I discovered that sitting in the ? front of the sub, the visibility is quite acceptable if it ? were not for the steel ballast tank.? ? Any ? leads would be appreciated. Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 16:53:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 22:53:34 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass In-Reply-To: <1806812852.4358752.1418112398710.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10054.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A rubber machine will help to run a straight course. This is not easy, especially UW. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 9 december 2014 9:07 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass Thanks Emile, so if you feed your compass data to your rudder actuator via a processor, you can be programed to safely return to port if incapacitated. :) Alan _____ From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass Alan, I have just a simple readout. But the compass sensor can be fed into more sophisticated navigation electronics and can control a rudder actuator. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 7 december 2014 19:32 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass Hi Emile, did you have it displaying on a Raymarine screen? Can I feed this in to a plc & display it on a screen easily? It is saying...... COMPASS Fluxgate Compass transducer to ST60+ SeaTalk1 The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the ST40 and ST60+ instruments on the SeaTalk1 network. The transducer simply connects to the back of one of the following instruments: * ST40 Compass * ST60+ Compass SeaTalkng The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the i70 , ST70 and ST70+ instruments on the SeaTalkng network via an iTC-5 transducer converter (sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5 which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng backbone. Note that if your system contains an SPX autopilot the Fluxgate Compass should connect directly to the course computer and not the iTC-5. Alan _____ From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass I got good results with a (raymarine) fluxgate. The sensor is placed in the all aluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from the hull) and the readout can placed anywhere. It can electronically compensate 10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel. The sistership has the sensor in a short mast also with good results. Attached a sketch of the pressuretight sensor housing. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens " Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 3 december 2014 20:46 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass Gyros in aricraft are not north stable - they need a magnetic compass or other device to set course. But they are okay if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They can hold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay for a slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven you can not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as in Spurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For other voltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap - between 100-800 USD - but most of them work not proper. They are build out of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without any waranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters .. Good solution if you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealer with a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. They are much bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm . Volume at minimum 36 liter . They need no calibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is that they normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them - make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can be damaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD second hand. There life time is limited 30000 - 40000 hours between first failtures. I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big error because of the 60 ts steel below. I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USD from a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it and its run stable but without any further waranty. A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will in most cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarine with strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheap devices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary on the sensor spot in mind and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch on and off all electric devices. Cross check with another compass (or the same one) far away from the sub. In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro in combination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay 100 USD item will not work proper. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is how to make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is a nice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would be awesome in a big sub. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM > > Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil > aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that > most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are > 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great > solution if you can afford it. > Alec > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > all, > > Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to > use them. It seems they would not be effected by a > submarine hull. What am I missing besides they are very > big. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 17:19:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 22:19:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <1418161537.4842.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418161537.4842.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1631976651.4635810.1418163545560.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100199.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Did a quick calculation & there will be 491lb of lift ina 36" hemisphere, so yes it would not pay to take short cuts mounting it.Remember you will get 1/3rd thickness at the apex which will be your most?vulnerable point, out at the front.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Alan, I was thinking about welding a ring to the remaining section of steel ballast tank, then place the dome with a small flange on the ring.? Then another ring to clamp the dome's flange.? I don't like the idea of drilling the flange.? I got a price from Vancouver, 664 dollars for the 3/8 thick dome.? Got another price for 1/2 in dome from Nova Scotia 1,000 dollars US plus shipping. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 4:02 PM So are you going to mount the dome with it's flange on?ie. weld on a circle of bolts & have a soft gasket that the domesits on & then another gasket & a ?retaining ring?The reason I ask is that the retaining ring could also be used in the?dome forming process to clamp the dome down & save youa bit of money.?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? Alan, I plan to remove the entire tank ahead of the vent valve. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 3:12 PM ? ? Hank,are you ? just replacing that conical bolt on portion at the ? front?Alan ? ?? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:01 AM ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? ? Alan, ? As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank.? Also I ? could drop the lead weight that is in the front.? I found a ? company in Calgary (3hr away)? that will blow me a dome 3/8 ? thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier ? one still, but it's a start.? ? ? Hank -------------------------------------------- ? On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 ? PM ? ? Hi ? ? Hank,these ? people have some options.They ? have ? a standard 1/4" thick 36" ? diameter product. ? Are you ? going to be able to get out of your sub should the ? ballast ? tank break?Plastic ? ? Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics ? Plastic Domes and Spheres ? ???????Plastic ? Domes | Plastic ? Hemispheres | California ? Quality...Acrylic ? Domes, Plastic Domes & ? Hemispheres ? HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic ? ? Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders ? Plastic ? Bell Jars Camer...View ? on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview ? by Yahoo?? ? Alan ? ? ?? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? ? Sent: Wednesday, ? ? December 10, 2014 8:36 AM ? ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? ? ? Hi all, ? I am looking for ? a 36 ? in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome ? will not be a pressure ? dome.? I intend to ? remove the front ballast tank from Gamma ? ? and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act ? as ? the new ballast tank.? I discovered ? that sitting in the ? front of the sub, the ? visibility is quite acceptable if it ? were not for the steel ballast tank.? ? Any ? leads would be appreciated. ? Hank ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment ? Follows----- ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 17:43:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 14:43:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted In-Reply-To: <1631976651.4635810.1418163545560.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100199.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418165038.82775.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Agreed, but there is not that much lift, you need to subtract the volume of the elliptical head. The apex is 1/2 the thickness, according to the supplier. It makes sense because the dia is large. I am thinking about taking a steel head and cutting it down so there is only four straps left and use that as a external stiffener and bumper. Hank--------------------------------------------On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 5:19 PM Did a quick calculation & there will be 491lb of lift ina 36" hemisphere, so yes it would not pay to take short cuts mounting it.Remember you will get 1/3rd thickness at the apex which will be your most?vulnerable point, out at the front.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Alan, I was thinking about welding a ring to the remaining section of steel ballast tank, then place the dome with a small flange on the ring.? Then another ring to clamp the dome's flange.? I don't like the idea of drilling the flange.? I got a price from Vancouver, 664 dollars for the 3/8 thick dome.? Got another price for 1/2 in dome from Nova Scotia 1,000 dollars US plus shipping. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 4:02 PM So are you going to mount the dome with it's flange on?ie. weld on a circle of bolts & have a soft gasket that the domesits on & then another gasket & a ?retaining ring?The reason I ask is that the retaining ring could also be used in the?dome forming process to clamp the dome down & save youa bit of money.?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? Alan, I plan to remove the entire tank ahead of the vent valve. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 3:12 PM ? ? Hank,are you ? just replacing that conical bolt on portion at the ? front?Alan ? ?? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:01 AM ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? ? Alan, ? As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank.? Also I ? could drop the lead weight that is in the front.? I found a ? company in Calgary (3hr away)? that will blow me a dome 3/8 ? thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier ? one still, but it's a start.? ? ? Hank -------------------------------------------- ? On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 ? PM ? ? Hi ? ? Hank,these ? people have some options.They ? have ? a standard 1/4" thick 36" ? diameter product. ? Are you ? going to be able to get out of your sub should the ? ballast ? tank break?Plastic ? ? Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics ? Plastic Domes and Spheres ? ???????Plastic ? Domes | Plastic ? Hemispheres | California ? Quality...Acrylic ? Domes, Plastic Domes & ? Hemispheres ? HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic ? ? Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders ? Plastic ? Bell Jars Camer...View ? on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview ? by Yahoo?? ? Alan ? ? ?? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? ? Sent: Wednesday, ? ? December 10, 2014 8:36 AM ? ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? ? ? Hi all, ? I am looking for ? a 36 ? in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome ? will not be a pressure ? dome.? I intend to ? remove the front ballast tank from Gamma ? ? and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act ? as ? the new ballast tank.? I discovered ? that sitting in the ? front of the sub, the ? visibility is quite acceptable if it ? were not for the steel ballast tank.? ? Any ? leads would be appreciated. ? Hank ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment ? Follows----- ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 20:18:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 20:18:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus documentary now Message-ID: <2c88b.77a90703.41b8f962@aol.com> Documentary on Admiral Rickover and the building of the USS Nautilus SSN-571 is on PBS right now.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 9 21:44:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 18:44:16 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Message-ID: <20141209184416.2C012914@m0005298.ppops.net> You could buy quite a slab of plexi-glass for $1000.00 !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 14:43:58 -0800 Alan, Agreed, but there is not that much lift, you need to subtract the volume of the elliptical head. The apex is 1/2 the thickness, according to the supplier. It makes sense because the dia is large. I am thinking about taking a steel head and cutting it down so there is only four straps left and use that as a external stiffener and bumper. Hank--------------------------------------------On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 5:19 PM Did a quick calculation & there will be 491lb of lift ina 36" hemisphere, so yes it would not pay to take short cuts mounting it.Remember you will get 1/3rd thickness at the apex which will be your most?vulnerable point, out at the front.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted Alan, I was thinking about welding a ring to the remaining section of steel ballast tank, then place the dome with a small flange on the ring.? Then another ring to clamp the dome's flange.? I don't like the idea of drilling the flange.? I got a price from Vancouver, 664 dollars for the 3/8 thick dome.? Got another price for 1/2 in dome from Nova Scotia 1,000 dollars US plus shipping. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 4:02 PM So are you going to mount the dome with it's flange on?ie. weld on a circle of bolts & have a soft gasket that the domesits on & then another gasket & a ?retaining ring?The reason I ask is that the retaining ring could also be used in the?dome forming process to clamp the dome down & save youa bit of money.?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? Alan, I plan to remove the entire tank ahead of the vent valve. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 3:12 PM ? ? Hank,are you ? just replacing that conical bolt on portion at the ? front?Alan ? ?? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:01 AM ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? ? Alan, ? As per ABS rules, the sub can surface on one ballast tank.? Also I ? could drop the lead weight that is in the front.? I found a ? company in Calgary (3hr away)? that will blow me a dome 3/8 ? thick and 3/16 at the apex. I am trying to find a heavier ? one still, but it's a start.? ? ? Hank -------------------------------------------- ? On Tue, 12/9/14, Alan James via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2014, 2:50 ? PM ? ? Hi ? ? Hank,these ? people have some options.They ? have ? a standard 1/4" thick 36" ? diameter product. ? Are you ? going to be able to get out of your sub should the ? ballast ? tank break?Plastic ? ? Domes | Plastic Hemispheres | California Quality Plastics ? Plastic Domes and Spheres ? ???????Plastic ? Domes | Plastic ? Hemispheres | California ? Quality...Acrylic ? Domes, Plastic Domes & ? Hemispheres ? HomePlastic Domes & Hemispheres Plastic ? ? Domes & Hemis Plastic Spheres Plastic Cylinders ? Plastic ? Bell Jars Camer...View ? on plastic-domes-spheres...Preview ? by Yahoo?? ? Alan ? ? ?? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? ? Sent: Wednesday, ? ? December 10, 2014 8:36 AM ? ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] wanted ? ? ? ? ? Hi all, ? I am looking for ? a 36 ? in ish dia acrylic dome.? The dome ? will not be a pressure ? dome.? I intend to ? remove the front ballast tank from Gamma ? ? and replace it with an acrylic dome.? The dome will act ? as ? the new ballast tank.? I discovered ? that sitting in the ? front of the sub, the ? visibility is quite acceptable if it ? were not for the steel ballast tank.? ? Any ? leads would be appreciated. ? Hank ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment ? Follows----- ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 10 14:00:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:00:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention Message-ID: All, we have a potential opportunity to hold our 2015 convention in the greater D.C. area in conjunction with the semi annual International Submarine Races. Here is a link to a nice video to familiarize yourself with the 2015 event (including dates). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXvN0RBiRQ I see some of the potential activities on the convention wish list as: - Tour some of the pressure testing facilities at Caderock (Navy base the ISR is held at) - Tour the tow basin where they test hull models and ISR is held - See the U.S. Navy Modeler's workshop (scale ship models) - View some of the ISR races - PSUB technical hotel sessions - Caderock engineer/technicians. Failure analysis? - PSUB member project updates? - Q&A session for ISR contestants to learn about PSUBS? - Support static or wet display at ISR event - Optional Smithsonian/D.C. day trip My main concern is the interest level for a convention of this make up? Please let me know if you think you'd attend. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 10 17:00:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 17:00:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, goodie, I'm local for once. Maybe we can do a meet and greet or a workshop visit here at Snoopy's lair. The project sub is coming along nicely, I'm thinking that would be of interest because she's quite unusual. Although after the tours at Dr. Phil's you would all need to set your expectations very, very low indeed. Having been at the sub races once, I highly recommend the event. Here's another video: http://vimeo.com/18211813 Best, Alec On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, we have a potential opportunity to hold our 2015 convention in the > greater D.C. area in conjunction with the semi annual International > Submarine Races. Here is a link to a nice video to familiarize yourself > with the 2015 event (including dates). > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXvN0RBiRQ > > I see some of the potential activities on the convention wish list as: > - Tour some of the pressure testing facilities at Caderock > (Navy base the ISR is held at) > - Tour the tow basin where they test hull models and ISR is held > - See the U.S. Navy Modeler's workshop (scale ship models) > - View some of the ISR races > - PSUB technical hotel sessions > - Caderock engineer/technicians. Failure analysis? > - PSUB member project updates? > - Q&A session for ISR contestants to learn about PSUBS? > - Support static or wet display at ISR event > - Optional Smithsonian/D.C. day trip > > My main concern is the interest level for a convention of this make up? > Please let me know if you think you'd attend. > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 10 20:04:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 20:04:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention Message-ID: <47850.6590e431.41ba4778@aol.com> Steve, You know I'll be there. Just say when. Alec, I'm very eager to see how your project sub is coming along, and I always like taking another look at Snoopy to what I missed the last time. Cheers, Jim In a message dated 12/10/2014 4:00:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Oh, goodie, I'm local for once. Maybe we can do a meet and greet or a workshop visit here at Snoopy's lair. The project sub is coming along nicely, I'm thinking that would be of interest because she's quite unusual. Although after the tours at Dr. Phil's you would all need to set your expectations very, very low indeed. Having been at the sub races once, I highly recommend the event. Here's another video: http://vimeo.com/18211813 Best, Alec On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: All, we have a potential opportunity to hold our 2015 convention in the greater D.C. area in conjunction with the semi annual International Submarine Races. Here is a link to a nice video to familiarize yourself with the 2015 event (including dates). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXvN0RBiRQ I see some of the potential activities on the convention wish list as: - Tour some of the pressure testing facilities at Caderock (Navy base the ISR is held at) - Tour the tow basin where they test hull models and ISR is held - See the U.S. Navy Modeler's workshop (scale ship models) - View some of the ISR races - PSUB technical hotel sessions - Caderock engineer/technicians. Failure analysis? - PSUB member project updates? - Q&A session for ISR contestants to learn about PSUBS? - Support static or wet display at ISR event - Optional Smithsonian/D.C. day trip My main concern is the interest level for a convention of this make up? Please let me know if you think you'd attend. Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 11 01:37:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 22:37:06 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004b01d0150c$e1b71f90$a5255eb0$@telus.net> This sounds great, Steve. I would love to attend both Psubs and ISR, so this is a great tie-in. Two years ago I suggested to my wife that we attend the races for our upcoming anniversary trip. She said that she would rather go to the Caymans? very puzzling. I am surprised that the visibility and lighting in the tank aren't better. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: December-10-14 11:01 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention All, we have a potential opportunity to hold our 2015 convention in the greater D.C. area in conjunction with the semi annual International Submarine Races. Here is a link to a nice video to familiarize yourself with the 2015 event (including dates). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXvN0RBiRQ I see some of the potential activities on the convention wish list as: - Tour some of the pressure testing facilities at Caderock (Navy base the ISR is held at) - Tour the tow basin where they test hull models and ISR is held - See the U.S. Navy Modeler's workshop (scale ship models) - View some of the ISR races - PSUB technical hotel sessions - Caderock engineer/technicians. Failure analysis? - PSUB member project updates? - Q&A session for ISR contestants to learn about PSUBS? - Support static or wet display at ISR event - Optional Smithsonian/D.C. day trip My main concern is the interest level for a convention of this make up? Please let me know if you think you'd attend. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 11 13:07:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 13:07:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec, thanks for the good ideas and offer to view your new sub project. Of course we are early into it so we have opportunities to get an full/interesting agenda compiled. Also of note is the D.C. Navy Yard and the associated museum. Waiting to see how the rest of the group responds. Steve On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Oh, goodie, I'm local for once. Maybe we can do a meet and greet or a > workshop visit here at Snoopy's lair. The project sub is coming along > nicely, I'm thinking that would be of interest because she's quite > unusual. Although after the tours at Dr. Phil's you would all need to set > your expectations very, very low indeed. > > Having been at the sub races once, I highly recommend the event. Here's > another video: http://vimeo.com/18211813 > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> All, we have a potential opportunity to hold our 2015 convention in the >> greater D.C. area in conjunction with the semi annual International >> Submarine Races. Here is a link to a nice video to familiarize yourself >> with the 2015 event (including dates). >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVXvN0RBiRQ >> >> I see some of the potential activities on the convention wish list as: >> - Tour some of the pressure testing facilities at Caderock >> (Navy base the ISR is held at) >> - Tour the tow basin where they test hull models and ISR is held >> - See the U.S. Navy Modeler's workshop (scale ship models) >> - View some of the ISR races >> - PSUB technical hotel sessions >> - Caderock engineer/technicians. Failure analysis? >> - PSUB member project updates? >> - Q&A session for ISR contestants to learn about PSUBS? >> - Support static or wet display at ISR event >> - Optional Smithsonian/D.C. day trip >> >> My main concern is the interest level for a convention of this make up? >> Please let me know if you think you'd attend. >> >> Steve >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 11 13:57:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 18:57:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Steve, can you give us a date range? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 11 16:34:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:34:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The International Submarine Races are schedule for June 22-26 2015. I believe the best fit for us would be to hold our convention at the end of this window. This way they are up and running when we visit. The first few days are usually hectic but slow to get things going. I was considering June 24-26th (Wed.-Fri.) for PSUBs. This would leave the weekend free for people to visit the DC area if desired or June 25-27 (Thur.-Sat.) to be less intrusive to the work week. Day 1: Tech. Sessions Day 2: 1/2 day Caderock Tour Steve On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, can you give us a date range? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 11 16:41:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:41:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: To continue from last email: Day 1: Tech. Sessions Day 2: 1/2 Day Caderock Tour 1/2 Day Observing ISR Event & Staffing Static Display(s)/PSUBS info table for ISR participant interaction Day 3: Smithsonian/Washington Naval Museum Trips An early draft open to input! Steve On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Steve McQueen wrote: > The International Submarine Races are schedule for June 22-26 2015. > > I believe the best fit for us would be to hold our convention at the end > of this window. This way they are up and running when we visit. The first > few days are usually hectic but slow to get things going. > > I was considering June 24-26th (Wed.-Fri.) for PSUBs. This would leave > the weekend free for people to visit the DC area if desired or June 25-27 > (Thur.-Sat.) to be less intrusive to the work week. > > Day 1: Tech. Sessions > Day 2: 1/2 day Caderock Tour > > > Steve > > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Steve, can you give us a date range? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 11 23:52:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:52:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701d015c7$5e3f5b30$1abe1190$@telus.net> How about a full day at ISR with everything else as suggested? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: December-11-14 1:42 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention To continue from last email: Day 1: Tech. Sessions Day 2: 1/2 Day Caderock Tour 1/2 Day Observing ISR Event & Staffing Static Display(s)/PSUBS info table for ISR participant interaction Day 3: Smithsonian/Washington Naval Museum Trips An early draft open to input! Steve On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Steve McQueen > wrote: The International Submarine Races are schedule for June 22-26 2015. I believe the best fit for us would be to hold our convention at the end of this window. This way they are up and running when we visit. The first few days are usually hectic but slow to get things going. I was considering June 24-26th (Wed.-Fri.) for PSUBs. This would leave the weekend free for people to visit the DC area if desired or June 25-27 (Thur.-Sat.) to be less intrusive to the work week. Day 1: Tech. Sessions Day 2: 1/2 day Caderock Tour Steve On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Steve, can you give us a date range? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 12 12:12:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:12:05 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] port test importance Message-ID: <1418404325.50720.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I just had a port fail in my test chamber. The port looked very nice on the exterior. The interior had a small chip and the crack went right through the chip. The failure happened at 1,500 feet after about 10 seconds. I don't think this failure would sink the boat but water would rush in. The crack went across the gasket causing the air to escape the chamber. The crack did not go all the way through the port. I posted a picture of the port on Gamma restoration. Back to test the last 3 ports with new shorts on, :-) Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 12 20:55:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 20:55:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Remote compass Message-ID: <1219dd.10413985.41bcf690@aol.com> Hank, Here's a pic of Gen3 that Gary Sluis built. The remote compass is the white block at the top of mast to get it away from the mass of the sub. The readout is directly in front of the pilot and is very easy to read. I really like it and would probably have something similar even if I also had a more high tech system onboard. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 12 21:05:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 21:05:18 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis Message-ID: <121c1e.644589f6.41bcf8de@aol.com> Hi Hank, I'm a bit delayed in getting back to you. Below are some links regarding Inertial Navigation Systems (INS). Some are specifically designed for underwater applications. The modules have become quite small (1" square). My desire is to have the entire track display onscreen and download it to a thumb drive at the end of the mission. One of the advantages of 3-axis INS is that it can provide heading, depth, rate of ascent/descent, speed independent of current, drift, tilt, etc. Obviously a starting point has to be established on the surface (GPS or other position reference and compass heading). However in many situations such as when operating from a lake ramp, you could just label the launch as "Starting Point" and call the initial heading "0" or whatever no matter which direction you're headed assuming you're going to be returning to the starting point. SBG Systems has been making rapid advancements in accuracy and cost reduction for INS. However inertial changes in small, manned submersibles are much smaller than in submarines, boats, and aircraft. If I were to the point of putting together a system, I would contact them for advice on which components to use to build it. Jim SBG Systems: http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/subsea-inertial-systems-overview http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/inertial-systems-overview http://www.sbg-systems.com/docs/Article-SBG-SYSTEMS-ON&T.pdf http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/ig-30-3d-compass Sparkfun: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12916 https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=compass&what=products OceanServer: http://www.oceanserver-store.com/ http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html?gclid=CKHazZGbiLMCFQpgMgodAQgALg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 12 22:07:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 16:07:40 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis In-Reply-To: <121c1e.644589f6.41bcf8de@aol.com> References: <121c1e.644589f6.41bcf8de@aol.com> Message-ID: <548bad85.e498420a.3346.ffff83f5@mx.google.com> Hi Jim, That is a really great bit of information you have posted. I am really keen to progress something that is afforadable. Has anyone put together an INS system which is low cost? I was in touch with someone a couple of years ago who was going to do a system for less than half what is currently available but have not heard anything more. Any other leads? Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 3:05 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis Hi Hank, I'm a bit delayed in getting back to you. Below are some links regarding Inertial Navigation Systems (INS). Some are specifically designed for underwater applications. The modules have become quite small (1" square). My desire is to have the entire track display onscreen and download it to a thumb drive at the end of the mission. One of the advantages of 3-axis INS is that it can provide heading, depth, rate of ascent/descent, speed independent of current, drift, tilt, etc. Obviously a starting point has to be established on the surface (GPS or other position reference and compass heading). However in many situations such as when operating from a lake ramp, you could just label the launch as "Starting Point" and call the initial heading "0" or whatever no matter which direction you're headed assuming you're going to be returning to the starting point. SBG Systems has been making rapid advancements in accuracy and cost reduction for INS. However inertial changes in small, manned submersibles are much smaller than in submarines, boats, and aircraft. If I were to the point of putting together a system, I would contact them for advice on which components to use to build it. Jim SBG Systems: http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/subsea-inertial-systems-overview http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/inertial-systems-overview http://www.sbg-systems.com/docs/Article-SBG-SYSTEMS-ON &T.pdf http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/ig-30-3d-compass Sparkfun: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12916 https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=compass &what=products OceanServer: http://www.oceanserver-store.com/ http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html?gclid=CKHazZGbiLMCFQpgMgodAQgALg __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10870 (20141212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 13 08:29:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 05:29:10 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis In-Reply-To: <121c1e.644589f6.41bcf8de@aol.com> Message-ID: <1418477350.93671.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Jim, Thank you, very nice stuff, I think though it would take my entire budget to have a system like that. I am going with an illuminated Ritchie fluid filled compass. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12/12/14, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Hummingbird Hi Hank, ? I'm a bit delayed in getting back to you.? Below are some links regarding Inertial Navigation Systems (INS).? Some are specifically designed for?underwater?applications.? The modules have become quite small (1" square).? My desire is to have the entire track display onscreen and download it to a thumb?drive at the end of the mission.? ? One of the advantages of 3-axis INS is that it can provide heading, depth, rate of ascent/descent, speed independent of current, drift, tilt, etc. ? Obviously a starting point has to be established on the surface (GPS or other?position reference?and compass heading).? However in?many situations such as when operating from a lake ramp,?you could just label the launch as "Starting Point" and call the initial heading "0" or whatever?no matter which direction you're headed assuming you're going to be returning to the starting point. ? SBG Systems has been making rapid advancements in accuracy and cost reduction for INS.? However inertial changes in small, manned submersibles are much smaller than in submarines, boats, and aircraft.? If I were to the point of putting together a system, I would contact them for advice on which components to use to build it. ? Jim ? SBG Systems: ? http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/subsea-inertial-systems-overview ? http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/inertial-systems-overview ? http://www.sbg-systems.com/docs/Article-SBG-SYSTEMS-ON&T.pdf ? http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/ig-30-3d-compass ? Sparkfun: ? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12916 ? https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=compass&what=products ? OceanServer: ? http://www.oceanserver-store.com/ ? http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html?gclid=CKHazZGbiLMCFQpgMgodAQgALg ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 13 08:31:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 08:31:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis In-Reply-To: <548bad85.e498420a.3346.ffff83f5@mx.google.com> References: <121c1e.644589f6.41bcf8de@aol.com> <548bad85.e498420a.3346.ffff83f5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <659CAE5D-830C-41D5-8166-26C789914FB1@gmail.com> I worked with a volunteer who developed a low cost system with a small screen and a low cost sensor of the class used in cell phones. The display had a "start" button to reset, and displayed a track of the path followed. He did a great job of it, but our conclusion was the sensor just didn't have sufficient accuracy yet. This was about 2/3 years ago. Best, Alec > On Dec 12, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Jim, > That is a really great bit of information you have posted. I am really keen to progress something that is afforadable. Has anyone put together an INS system which is low cost? > I was in touch with someone a couple of years ago who was going to do a system for less than half what is currently available but have not heard anything more. Any other leads? > Regards, Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 3:05 p.m. > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis > > Hi Hank, > > I'm a bit delayed in getting back to you. Below are some links regarding Inertial Navigation Systems (INS). Some are specifically designed for underwater applications. The modules have become quite small (1" square). My desire is to have the entire track display onscreen and download it to a thumb drive at the end of the mission. > > One of the advantages of 3-axis INS is that it can provide heading, depth, rate of ascent/descent, speed independent of current, drift, tilt, etc. > > Obviously a starting point has to be established on the surface (GPS or other position reference and compass heading). However in many situations such as when operating from a lake ramp, you could just label the launch as "Starting Point" and call the initial heading "0" or whatever no matter which direction you're headed assuming you're going to be returning to the starting point. > > SBG Systems has been making rapid advancements in accuracy and cost reduction for INS. However inertial changes in small, manned submersibles are much smaller than in submarines, boats, and aircraft. If I were to the point of putting together a system, I would contact them for advice on which components to use to build it. > > Jim > > SBG Systems: > > http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/subsea-inertial-systems-overview > > http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/inertial-systems-overview > > http://www.sbg-systems.com/docs/Article-SBG-SYSTEMS-ON&T.pdf > > http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/ig-30-3d-compass > > Sparkfun: > > https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12916 > > https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=compass&what=products > > OceanServer: > > http://www.oceanserver-store.com/ > > http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html?gclid=CKHazZGbiLMCFQpgMgodAQgALg > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10870 (20141212) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10870 (20141212) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 13 20:32:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:32:14 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart In-Reply-To: <1418090055.28366.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <2084438953.4294191.1418085700685.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100147.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1418090055.28366.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001b01d0173d$ca03e080$5e0ba180$@telus.net> Hank, Perhaps you could set the cart's ballast tanks up like a miniature floating dry dock on wheels. http://products.damen.com/~/media/Products/Images/Clusters%20groups/Pontoons %20and%20Barges/Barges/Non%20Ship%20Structure/Floating%20Dry%20Dock/Load%20O ut%20Recovery%20Barge%2013000/gallery/Damen_Load_Out_Recovery_Barge_13000.as hx?h=932&w=1600 The corner verticals should be high enough to house the engine and pumps when the cart is submerged to its maximum depth to launch and recover Gama. HURL uses something similar to launch and recover their Pisces IV in blue water, however their platform submerges fully to get below the off shore heave and surge. http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training-750.jpg http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.258070.1387304384!/image/image.jpg_gen/ derivatives/landscape_804/image.jpg Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: December-08-14 5:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart Alan, Thank you for posting the link, my computer won't let me :-( Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/8/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 8, 2014, 7:41 PM That's looking good Hank.very clever, bet you had a good time testing it out.Posted your link to make it easier to find it.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/ Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:16 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart --- On Sun, 12/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's cart > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Sunday, December 7, 2014, 2:00 PM > Finally, > Gamma,s cart is done, hill climbing test went good and the > hand brake holds perfectly.? I should be able to drive > Gamma right up onto the trailer.? I may have traction > problems because I am using a standard truck differential > with no posi track.? I can lock the planetary but it > will make it hard to steer and rob a ton of power. > Pictures are under Gamma restoration. The ballast tanks are > not made yet because I can't decide how I want to do it. The > tanks on the cart are for reducing the weight of the cart > and are air holding tanks for the ballast tanks if I go that > rout.? The yellow paint is the water line when Gamma > will float off. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 13 23:11:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:11:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis Message-ID: <8ca86.7a024a25.41be680f@aol.com> Hi Guys, As I understand it, the accuracy and cost of the INS sensors have continued to improve substantially. The specs I see now compared to what I was seeing a couple of years ago seem to indicate that, however I've not had any direct experience with them. The first challenge is then to integrate it into a display system. If you've seen Cliff's display in the R300, that's the type I'm talking about although he doesn't have an INS, and that display doesn't have an easy download function. It's my understanding that a later model does have capability for logging and downloading to a thumb drive. Alec, thanks for sharing your experience. I think a couple of other guys have researched INS in the past. Steve M., this might be a great topic for a tech session at our next convention by someone with an electronics background. I'm somewhat lacking in that department. Cheers, Jim T. In a message dated 12/13/2014 7:31:59 A.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: I worked with a volunteer who developed a low cost system with a small screen and a low cost sensor of the class used in cell phones. The display had a "start" button to reset, and displayed a track of the path followed. He did a great job of it, but our conclusion was the sensor just didn't have sufficient accuracy yet. This was about 2/3 years ago. Best, Alec On Dec 12, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi Jim, That is a really great bit of information you have posted. I am really keen to progress something that is afforadable. Has anyone put together an INS system which is low cost? I was in touch with someone a couple of years ago who was going to do a system for less than half what is currently available but have not heard anything more. Any other leads? Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 13 December 2014 3:05 p.m. To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inertial navigation, 3-axis Hi Hank, I'm a bit delayed in getting back to you. Below are some links regarding Inertial Navigation Systems (INS). Some are specifically designed for underwater applications. The modules have become quite small (1" square). My desire is to have the entire track display onscreen and download it to a thumb drive at the end of the mission. One of the advantages of 3-axis INS is that it can provide heading, depth, rate of ascent/descent, speed independent of current, drift, tilt, etc. Obviously a starting point has to be established on the surface (GPS or other position reference and compass heading). However in many situations such as when operating from a lake ramp, you could just label the launch as "Starting Point" and call the initial heading "0" or whatever no matter which direction you're headed assuming you're going to be returning to the starting point. SBG Systems has been making rapid advancements in accuracy and cost reduction for INS. However inertial changes in small, manned submersibles are much smaller than in submarines, boats, and aircraft. If I were to the point of putting together a system, I would contact them for advice on which components to use to build it. Jim SBG Systems: http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/subsea-inertial-systems-overview http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/inertial-systems-overview http://www.sbg-systems.com/docs/Article-SBG-SYSTEMS-ON&T.pdf http://www.sbg-systems.com/products/ig-30-3d-compass Sparkfun: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12916 https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=compass&what=products OceanServer: http://www.oceanserver-store.com/ http://www.ocean-server.com/compass.html?gclid=CKHazZGbiLMCFQpgMgodAQgALg __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10870 (20141212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. _http://www.eset.com_ (http://www.eset.com/) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10870 (20141212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. _http://www.eset.com_ (http://www.eset.com/) _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 08:24:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 05:24:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart In-Reply-To: <001b01d0173d$ca03e080$5e0ba180$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1418563442.58177.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim, That is the plan exactly. The cart can travel with the sub using the engine driven alternator as the power source. I am trying to decide if the floatation tanks that will be added up top should act like ballast tanks. I could raise Gamma higher, but is it worth the complexity. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/13/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, December 13, 2014, 8:32 PM Hank, Perhaps you could set the cart's ballast tanks up like a miniature floating dry dock on wheels. http://products.damen.com/~/media/Products/Images/Clusters%20groups/Pontoons %20and%20Barges/Barges/Non%20Ship%20Structure/Floating%20Dry%20Dock/Load%20O ut%20Recovery%20Barge%2013000/gallery/Damen_Load_Out_Recovery_Barge_13000.as hx?h=932&w=1600 The corner verticals should be high enough to house the engine and pumps when the cart is submerged to its maximum depth to launch and recover Gama. HURL uses something similar to launch and recover their Pisces IV in blue water, however their platform submerges fully to get below the off shore heave and surge. http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/subs/pisces/pisces-training-750.jpg http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.258070.1387304384!/image/image.jpg_gen/ derivatives/landscape_804/image.jpg Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: December-08-14 5:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Gamma's cart Alan, Thank you for posting the link, my computer won't let me :-( Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/8/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw:? Gamma's cart To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 8, 2014, 7:41 PM That's looking good Hank.very clever, bet you had a good time testing it? out.Posted? your link to make it easier to find it.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/ Alan ? ??? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:16 PM ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw:? Gamma's cart ??? --- On Sun, 12/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma's? cart? > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org? > Received: Sunday, December 7, 2014, 2:00 PM? > Finally,? >? Gamma,s cart is done, hill climbing test went good and the? > hand brake holds perfectly.? I? should be able to drive? > Gamma right up? onto the trailer.? I may have traction? >? problems because I am using a standard truck differential? > with no posi track.? I can lock the planetary but it? > will make it hard to? steer and rob a ton of power.? > Pictures are under Gamma restoration. The ballast tanks? are? > not made yet because I can't? decide how I want to do it. The? > tanks? on the cart are for reducing the weight of the cart? > and are air holding tanks for the ballast? tanks if I go that? > rout.? The yellow? paint is the water line when Gamma? > will? float off. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 09:12:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:12:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: <005701d015c7$5e3f5b30$1abe1190$@telus.net> References: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <005701d015c7$5e3f5b30$1abe1190$@telus.net> Message-ID: Tim, all is in the early planning stages. I have noted your comment though. Thanks, Steve On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:52 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > How about a full day at ISR with everything else as suggested? > > > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* December-11-14 1:42 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention > > > > To continue from last email: > > Day 1: Tech. Sessions > > Day 2: 1/2 Day Caderock Tour > > 1/2 Day Observing ISR Event & Staffing Static Display(s)/PSUBS > info table for ISR participant interaction > > Day 3: Smithsonian/Washington Naval Museum Trips > > An early draft open to input! > > Steve > > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Steve McQueen > wrote: > > The International Submarine Races are schedule for June 22-26 2015. > > I believe the best fit for us would be to hold our convention at the end > of this window. This way they are up and running when we visit. The first > few days are usually hectic but slow to get things going. > > I was considering June 24-26th (Wed.-Fri.) for PSUBs. This would leave > the weekend free for people to visit the DC area if desired or June 25-27 > (Thur.-Sat.) to be less intrusive to the work week. > > Day 1: Tech. Sessions > > Day 2: 1/2 day Caderock Tour > > > > Steve > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Steve, can you give us a date range? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 14:35:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 14:35:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <005701d015c7$5e3f5b30$1abe1190$@telus.net> Message-ID: I vote in favor of holding the 2015 Psubs convention at the ISR . Dan Lance On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Tim, all is in the early planning stages. I have noted your comment though. > Thanks, > Steve > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:52 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> How about a full day at ISR with everything else as suggested? >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve McQueen >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* December-11-14 1:42 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention >> >> >> >> To continue from last email: >> >> Day 1: Tech. Sessions >> >> Day 2: 1/2 Day Caderock Tour >> >> 1/2 Day Observing ISR Event & Staffing Static Display(s)/PSUBS >> info table for ISR participant interaction >> >> Day 3: Smithsonian/Washington Naval Museum Trips >> >> An early draft open to input! >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Steve McQueen >> wrote: >> >> The International Submarine Races are schedule for June 22-26 2015. >> >> I believe the best fit for us would be to hold our convention at the end >> of this window. This way they are up and running when we visit. The first >> few days are usually hectic but slow to get things going. >> >> I was considering June 24-26th (Wed.-Fri.) for PSUBs. This would leave >> the weekend free for people to visit the DC area if desired or June 25-27 >> (Thur.-Sat.) to be less intrusive to the work week. >> >> Day 1: Tech. Sessions >> >> Day 2: 1/2 day Caderock Tour >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Steve, can you give us a date range? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 16:16:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 16:16:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention In-Reply-To: References: <1841143927.8569430.1418324250087.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106139.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <005701d015c7$5e3f5b30$1abe1190$@telus.net> Message-ID: Noted. Thanks On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I vote in favor of holding the 2015 Psubs convention at the ISR . > Dan Lance > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Tim, all is in the early planning stages. I have noted your comment >> though. >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:52 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> How about a full day at ISR with everything else as suggested? >>> >>> >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve McQueen >>> via Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* December-11-14 1:42 PM >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUBS Convention >>> >>> >>> >>> To continue from last email: >>> >>> Day 1: Tech. Sessions >>> >>> Day 2: 1/2 Day Caderock Tour >>> >>> 1/2 Day Observing ISR Event & Staffing Static Display(s)/PSUBS >>> info table for ISR participant interaction >>> >>> Day 3: Smithsonian/Washington Naval Museum Trips >>> >>> An early draft open to input! >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Steve McQueen >>> wrote: >>> >>> The International Submarine Races are schedule for June 22-26 2015. >>> >>> I believe the best fit for us would be to hold our convention at the end >>> of this window. This way they are up and running when we visit. The first >>> few days are usually hectic but slow to get things going. >>> >>> I was considering June 24-26th (Wed.-Fri.) for PSUBs. This would leave >>> the weekend free for people to visit the DC area if desired or June 25-27 >>> (Thur.-Sat.) to be less intrusive to the work week. >>> >>> Day 1: Tech. Sessions >>> >>> Day 2: 1/2 day Caderock Tour >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Steve, can you give us a date range? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 16:38:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 13:38:28 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props Message-ID: <1418593108.53066.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, If I build a thruster with an extra long shaft, then put two props on back to back, one prop reversed. Will the thruster perform equally in both directions? Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 19:04:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:04:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props In-Reply-To: <1418593108.53066.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418593108.53066.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1320207213.7191.1418601866378.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100108.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,I guess you would be getting the same thrust in both directions, butyou would be doubling the pitch of the propeller by doubling up, & there maybe a lot of turbulance between the propellers.There are propeller calculators that take a number of input variables like hp, revs, boat size,intended speed, diameter of the propeller & pitch. You leave one input out & it calculatesthat for you. You could call the two propellers one (add the two pitches together) & see what?diameter it calculates for you at a given pitch & play around till you get the most efficientdiameter / pitch combination; then use the diameter but halve the pitch.I don't think I made a lot of sense, but if you go down that path I will explain a bit better.However given that submarines operate better with bigger diameter, lower pitch propellersit probably isn't a good idea going to two smaller higher pitched propellers.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:38 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props Hi All, If I build a thruster with an extra long shaft, then put two props on back to back, one prop reversed.? Will the thruster perform equally in both directions? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 20:04:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 17:04:27 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props In-Reply-To: <1320207213.7191.1418601866378.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100108.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418605467.64858.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Maybe it is better to make a prop that works in both directions. I can afford to loose efficiency, that is better than mounting two thrusters in my case. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 7:04 PM Hi Hank,I guess you would be getting the same thrust in both directions, butyou would be doubling the pitch of the propeller by doubling up, & there maybe a lot of turbulance between the propellers.There are propeller calculators that take a number of input variables like hp, revs, boat size,intended speed, diameter of the propeller & pitch. You leave one input out & it calculatesthat for you. You could call the two propellers one (add the two pitches together) & see what?diameter it calculates for you at a given pitch & play around till you get the most efficientdiameter / pitch combination; then use the diameter but halve the pitch.I don't think I made a lot of sense, but if you go down that path I will explain a bit better.However given that submarines operate better with bigger diameter, lower pitch propellersit probably isn't a good idea going to two smaller higher pitched propellers.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:38 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props Hi All, If I build a thruster with an extra long shaft, then put two props on back to back, one prop reversed.? Will the thruster perform equally in both directions? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 20:09:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 17:09:27 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props In-Reply-To: <1418605467.64858.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418605767.30034.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Another idea, make a thruster with a prop at each end of the motor, what do you think? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 8:04 PM Alan, Maybe it is better to make a prop that works in both directions.? I can afford to loose efficiency, that is better than mounting two thrusters in my case. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 7:04 PM Hi Hank,I guess you would be getting the same thrust in both directions, butyou would be doubling the pitch of the propeller by doubling up, & there maybe a lot of turbulance between the propellers.There are propeller calculators that take a number of input variables like hp, revs, boat size,intended speed, diameter of the propeller & pitch. You leave one input out & it calculatesthat for you. You could call the two propellers one (add the two pitches together) & see what?diameter it calculates for you at a given pitch & play around till you get the most efficientdiameter / pitch combination; then use the diameter but halve the pitch.I don't think I made a lot of sense, but if you go down that path I will explain a bit better.However given that submarines operate better with bigger diameter, lower pitch propellersit probably isn't a good idea going to two smaller higher pitched propellers.Alan ? ??? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:38 AM ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? ? Hi All, If I build a thruster with an extra long shaft, then put two props on back to back, one prop reversed.? Will the thruster perform equally in both directions? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ??? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 20:34:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 01:34:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props In-Reply-To: <1418605767.30034.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418605767.30034.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <139948872.22658.1418607246912.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100120.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I thought Gamma had an internal motor.Or is this for something else?You could run a propeller fore & aft of the motor, & the?brushless motors I'm looking at have provision for that.But you would need two shaft seals & have that additional friction.It would make it more complicated bolting the motor can together.If you had the propeller that was back the front, trailing, then the flowcreated by the forward propeller might help compensate for the inefficienciesof the propeller for reversing.A lot of the thruster manufacturers ( of which there aren't many ) publicizethe forward & reverse thrust. That might be interesting reading.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props Alan, Another idea, make a thruster with a prop at each end of the motor, what do you think? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 8:04 PM Alan, Maybe it is better to make a prop that works in both directions.? I can afford to loose efficiency, that is better than mounting two thrusters in my case. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 7:04 PM ? ? Hi Hank,I guess ? you would be getting the same thrust in both directions, ? butyou would ? be doubling the pitch of the propeller by doubling up, & ? there maybe a lot ? of turbulance between the propellers.There are ? propeller calculators that take a number of input variables ? like hp, revs, boat size,intended ? speed, diameter of the propeller & pitch. You leave one ? input out & it calculatesthat for ? you. You could call the two propellers one (add the two ? pitches together) & see what?diameter ? it calculates for you at a given pitch & play around ? till you get the most efficientdiameter / ? pitch combination; then use the diameter but halve the ? pitch.I ? don't think I made a lot of sense, but if you go down ? that path I will explain a bit better.However ? given that submarines operate better with bigger diameter, ? lower pitch propellersit ? probably isn't a good idea going to two smaller higher pitched propellers.Alan ? ??? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:38 AM ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? ? ? Hi All, ? If I build a thruster ? with an extra long shaft, then put two props on back to ? back, one prop reversed.? Will the thruster perform equally ? in both directions? ? Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ??? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 14 21:04:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:04:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props In-Reply-To: <139948872.22658.1418607246912.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100120.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1418609090.38690.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, This is for maneuvering thrusters on Gamma Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 8:34 PM I thought Gamma had an internal motor.Or is this for something else?You could run a propeller fore & aft of the motor, & the?brushless motors I'm looking at have provision for that.But you would need two shaft seals & have that additional friction.It would make it more complicated bolting the motor can together.If you had the propeller that was back the front, trailing, then the flowcreated by the forward propeller might help compensate for the inefficienciesof the propeller for reversing.A lot of the thruster manufacturers ( of which there aren't many ) publicizethe forward & reverse thrust. That might be interesting reading.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props Alan, Another idea, make a thruster with a prop at each end of the motor, what do you think? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 8:04 PM Alan, Maybe it is better to make a prop that works in both directions.? I can afford to loose efficiency, that is better than mounting two thrusters in my case. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 7:04 PM ? ? Hi Hank,I guess ? you would be getting the same thrust in both directions, ? butyou would ? be doubling the pitch of the propeller by doubling up, & ? there maybe a lot ? of turbulance between the propellers.There are ? propeller calculators that take a number of input variables ? like hp, revs, boat size,intended ? speed, diameter of the propeller & pitch. You leave one ? input out & it calculatesthat for ? you. You could call the two propellers one (add the two ? pitches together) & see what?diameter ? it calculates for you at a given pitch & play around ? till you get the most efficientdiameter / ? pitch combination; then use the diameter but halve the ? pitch.I ? don't think I made a lot of sense, but if you go down ? that path I will explain a bit better.However ? given that submarines operate better with bigger diameter, ? lower pitch propellersit ? probably isn't a good idea going to two smaller higher pitched propellers.Alan ? ??? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:38 AM ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? ? ? Hi All, ? If I build a thruster ? with an extra long shaft, then put two props on back to ? back, one prop reversed.? Will the thruster perform equally ? in both directions? ? Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ??? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 15 01:00:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 06:00:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props In-Reply-To: <1418609090.38690.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1418609090.38690.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <977884239.65092.1418623250558.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100169.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,what about rotating thrusters that can go through 270 degrees?You could put a motor drive on them & run them off joy sticks from anywhere in the sub.It might be faster & less stressful on the electronics to have the motor just spin around.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props Alan, This is for maneuvering thrusters on Gamma Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 8:34 PM I thought Gamma had an internal motor.Or is this for something else?You could run a propeller fore & aft of the motor, & the?brushless motors I'm looking at have provision for that.But you would need two shaft seals & have that additional friction.It would make it more complicated bolting the motor can together.If you had the propeller that was back the front, trailing, then the flowcreated by the forward propeller might help compensate for the inefficienciesof the propeller for reversing.A lot of the thruster manufacturers ( of which there aren't many ) publicizethe forward & reverse thrust. That might be interesting reading.Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 2:09 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? ? Alan, Another idea, make a thruster with a prop at each end of the motor, what do you think? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/14/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 8:04 PM ? ? Alan, ? Maybe it is better to make a prop that works in ? both directions.? I can afford to loose efficiency, that is ? better than mounting two thrusters in my case. Hank-------------------------------------------- ? On Sun, 12/14/14, Alan James via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Sunday, December 14, 2014, 7:04 ? PM ? ? Hi ? ? Hank,I guess ? you would be getting the same ? thrust in both directions, ? butyou would ? be doubling the pitch of the propeller by ? doubling up, & ? there maybe a lot ? of turbulance between the propellers.There are ? propeller calculators that take a ? number of input variables ? like hp, revs, ? boat size,intended ? speed, diameter of the propeller & pitch. You leave one ? input ? out & it calculatesthat for ? you. You ? could call the two propellers one (add the two ? pitches together) & see what?diameter ? it calculates for you at a given pitch & play around ? till you get the most ? efficientdiameter / ? pitch combination; then ? use the diameter but halve the ? pitch.I ? don't think I made a lot of sense, but if ? you go down ? that path I will explain a bit ? better.However ? given that submarines operate better with bigger diameter, ? lower ? pitch propellersit ? probably isn't a ? good idea going to two smaller higher ? ? pitched propellers.Alan ? ? ??? ? ? From: hank pronk via ? ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? ? ? Sent: Monday, December ? ? 15, 2014 10:38 AM ? ? Subject: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] props ? ? ? ? ? Hi All, ? If I build a ? thruster ? with an extra long shaft, then put ? two props on back to ? back, one prop ? reversed.? Will the thruster perform equally ? in both directions? ? Hank ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? -----Inline ? Attachment Follows----- ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 15 11:46:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 16:46:00 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Truck thing. Message-ID: Hi all, Check this out. Could be good for a launching system! and its not even very expensive... http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Work-Boat-for-sale/hagglund-bv206/57453#PADKqRhpWrAOuXCB.97 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 15 12:04:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:04:18 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tim contact Message-ID: <1418663058.7008.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim Novak, Can you contact me at hankpronk at live.ca thanks' Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 15 16:16:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 22:16:24 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Truck thing. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A very, very cool truck! I was thinking of a tracked platform to launch a sub at a sandy beach. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 15 december 2014 17:46 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Truck thing. Hi all, Check this out. Could be good for a launching system! and its not even very expensive... http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Work-Boat-for-sale/hagglund-bv206/57453#P ADKqRhpWrAOuXCB.97 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 15 16:52:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:52:28 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Truck thing. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1418680348.78823.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, All you need is to buy the trailer portion. Judging by the sprockets on the trailer tracks, it is driven from a PTO off the truck part. We call those snow cats here, although this one has mud tracks on it. You could have a small motor and hydraulic pump to drive it. Warning though, it will be very heavy. Sure would look kik ass. Everyone would sure get out of your way :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/15/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Truck thing. To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Received: Monday, December 15, 2014, 11:46 AM Hi all,?Check this out.? Could be good for a launching system!?and its not even very expensive...?http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Work-Boat-for-sale/hagglund-bv206/57453#PADKqRhpWrAOuXCB.97 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 16 08:16:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 05:16:56 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: 1 TC 125 Underwater Television SDA Camera Hydro Vision International Fujinon | eBay Message-ID: <1418735816.82048.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Check out these deep sea camera housings on ebay. They could be handy for light housings or use the camera. I just bought his deep sea lights (12,000m rating) for 66 dollars each. So if you like the camera housings you will get them for much less. Hank --- On Tue, 12/16/14, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: 1 TC 125 Underwater Television SDA Camera Hydro Vision International Fujinon | eBay > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Tuesday, December 16, 2014, 8:13 AM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-TC-125-Underwater-television-SDA-camera-HYDRO-VISION-INTERNATIONAL-Fujinon-/131356373766?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 16 18:12:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:12:36 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Message-ID: <20141216151236.2C0ABF39@m0005309.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 16 18:45:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:45:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors In-Reply-To: <20141216151236.2C0ABF39@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1418773551.84251.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, Oil cooled or oil filled? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/16/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors To: "PSubs" Received: Tuesday, December 16, 2014, 6:12 PM Heard it from the horses mouth, the new motors will be available as of Jan 1st !?? These motors are specifically designed to be oil cooled, they come with in and out ports.? I think you can order a heat exchanger and?pump to go with it, they are specifically designed for marine applications.? Housing is stainless, also designed for continuous duty.?? Various voltages.?Brian? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 16 18:47:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:47:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Message-ID: <20141216154746.2C031FD2@m0005296.ppops.net> yes to both --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:45:51 -0800 Brian, Oil cooled or oil filled? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/16/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors To: "PSubs" Received: Tuesday, December 16, 2014, 6:12 PM Heard it from the horses mouth, the new motors will be available as of Jan 1st !?? These motors are specifically designed to be oil cooled, they come with in and out ports.? I think you can order a heat exchanger and?pump to go with it, they are specifically designed for marine applications.? Housing is stainless, also designed for continuous duty.?? Various voltages.?Brian? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 16 19:12:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 00:12:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors In-Reply-To: <20141216151236.2C0ABF39@m0005309.ppops.net> References: <20141216151236.2C0ABF39@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <283682138.127693.1418775172697.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100141.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> What motors are these Brian?Who manufactures them? any link to info?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:12 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Heard it from the horses mouth, the new motors will be available as of Jan 1st !?? These motors are specifically designed to be oil cooled, they come with in and out ports.? I think you can order a heat exchanger and?pump to go with it, they are specifically designed for marine applications.? Housing is stainless, also designed for continuous duty.?? Various voltages.?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 16 23:34:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 20:34:39 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Message-ID: <20141216203439.80FF3EDC@m0048136.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 17 04:18:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:18:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors In-Reply-To: <20141216203439.80FF3EDC@m0048136.ppops.net> References: <20141216203439.80FF3EDC@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1680708591.75500.1418807910044.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10082.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> OK,look forward to the stats & price.After Hugh had suggested looking at bow thruster propellers, two Vetus bowthruster props came up for sale on the NZ equivalent of Ebay. So I have themto test on my brushless motors, along with a couple of outboard props.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Alan,?????????? Be patient ...........you'll be the first to know!? -?They are not actually listed yet.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 00:12:52 +0000 (UTC) What motors are these Brian?Who manufactures them? any link to info?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:12 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors Heard it from the horses mouth, the new motors will be available as of Jan 1st !?? These motors are specifically designed to be oil cooled, they come with in and out ports.? I think you can order a heat exchanger and?pump to go with it, they are specifically designed for marine applications.? Housing is stainless, also designed for continuous duty.?? Various voltages.?Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Dec 19 13:39:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:39:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Happy Holydays Message-ID: <345066655.177212.1419014390786.JavaMail.yahoo@jws11101g.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Dear? psubbersI wish you all happy Holydays and a magnificent new year 2015, and hope this new year bring a lot of new subs and nice experiencesBest wishesJuergen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 21 22:33:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 11:33:38 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Acoustics Handbook by Albers (1960) Message-ID: <54979112.9080207@archivale.com> I just blundered into this on Hathitrust. Problem is, I have to download it page by page if I want it? Should I want it? Does somebody already have it in electronic form? Marc de Piolenc -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 01:26:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 23:26:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Message-ID: <518rfnarftp13whpuvcr2v8y.1419488817213@email.android.com> What kind of metal is the personel sphere made of on James Camerons deep sea challenger sub? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 08:32:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:32:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Message-ID: <9e23b.713ad175.41cd6bdf@aol.com> Merry Christmas, Scott, The 43" sphere is steel 2.5" thick. I don't think they have released any information on what grade steel was used. They said a cylinder would have had to be three times as thick to withstand the pressure, but I don't know if that was based on 43". -Jim T. In a message dated 12/25/2014 12:27:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: What kind of metal is the personel sphere made of on James Camerons deep sea challenger sub? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 10:08:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:08:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Message-ID: <6rr93vscyl3g5rfxens7bhnl.1419520089567@email.android.com> I have been trying to figure out what grade of steel it is. I figured it was titanium, but when I watched the documentary, they kept saying it was steel. My bust guess is it is HY-100? Merry Christmas, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:12/25/2014 6:32 AM (GMT-07:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Merry Christmas, Scott, The 43" sphere is steel 2.5" thick. I don't think they have released any information on what grade steel was used. They said a cylinder would have had to be three times as thick to withstand the pressure, but I don't know if that was based on 43". -Jim T. In a message dated 12/25/2014 12:27:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: What kind of metal is the personel sphere made of on James Camerons deep sea challenger sub? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 12:08:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 09:08:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Lot of 2 Testing Ball Tank Pressure Explosion Vessel 6 ft Diameter | eBay Message-ID: <1419527284.39379.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Check this out, the vessels are over two inches thick and maybe more. I inquired but can't remember. Hank --- On Thu, 12/25/14, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: Lot of 2 Testing Ball Tank Pressure Explosion Vessel 6 ft Diameter | eBay > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 12:05 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Testing-Ball-Tank-Pressure-Explosion-Vessel-6-Ft-Diameter-/310954415718?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 12:34:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 09:34:39 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger In-Reply-To: <6rr93vscyl3g5rfxens7bhnl.1419520089567@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1419528879.97391.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Pressure Hull The 43-in. Diameter x 2.5-in. thick pressure hull is fabricated from high tensile steel EN26, invented in the 1940s for use in large Howitzer-type gun barrels. It is an alloy similar to that used on DSV Trieste?s pressure hull in its 1960 deep dive https://www.oceannews.com/feature-story/2014 -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 9:08 AM I have been trying to figure out what grade of steel it is. I figured it was titanium, but when I watched the documentary, they kept saying it was steel. My bust guess is it is HY-100?Merry Christmas,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:12/25/2014 6:32 AM (GMT-07:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Merry Christmas, Scott, ? The 43"?sphere is steel 2.5" thick.? I don't think they have released any information on what grade steel was used.? They said?a cylinder would have had to be three times as thick to withstand the pressure, but I don't know if that was based on 43".? -Jim T. ? In a message dated 12/25/2014 12:27:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: What kind of metal is the personel sphere made of on James Camerons deep sea challenger sub? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 12:41:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 09:41:38 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Message-ID: <1419529298.65296.YahooMailBasic@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Try this link -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 11:34 AM Pressure Hull The 43-in. Diameter x 2.5-in. thick pressure hull is fabricated from high tensile steel EN26, invented in the 1940s for use in large Howitzer-type gun barrels. It is an alloy similar to that used on DSV Trieste?s pressure hull in its 1960 deep dive https://www.oceannews.com/feature-story/2014 -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 9:08 AM I have been trying to figure out what grade of steel it is. I figured it was titanium, but when I watched the documentary, they kept saying it was steel. My bust guess is it is HY-100?Merry Christmas,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles? Date:12/25/2014? 6:32 AM? (GMT-07:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Merry Christmas, Scott, ? The 43"?sphere is steel 2.5" thick.? I don't think they have released any information on what grade steel was used.? They said?a cylinder would have had to be three times as thick to withstand the pressure, but I don't know if that was based on 43".? -Jim T. ? In a message dated 12/25/2014 12:27:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ???What kind of metal is the personel sphere made of on James Camerons deep ???sea challenger sub? ???Thanks, ???Scott Waters ??? ??? ???Sent from my U.S. Cellular? ???Smartphone ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles ???mailing ???list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: technology-of-the-deepsea-challenge-expedition-part-3-of-3-deepsea-challenger[1] Type: application/octet-stream Size: 56084 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 12:58:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 09:58:11 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1419530291.46877.YahooMailBasic@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> https://www.oceannews.com/feature-story/2014/08/29/technology-of-the-deepsea-challenge-expedition-part-3-of-3-deepsea-challenger From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 12:59:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 09:59:17 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger In-Reply-To: <1419529298.65296.YahooMailBasic@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419530357.2621.YahooMailBasic@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> https://www.oceannews.com/feature-story/2014/08/29/technology-of-the-deepsea-challenge-expedition-part-3-of-3-deepsea-challenger -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 11:41 AM Try this link -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 11:34 AM Pressure Hull The 43-in. Diameter x 2.5-in. thick pressure hull is fabricated from high tensile steel EN26, invented in the 1940s for use in large Howitzer-type gun barrels. It is an alloy similar to that used on DSV Trieste?s pressure hull in its 1960 deep dive https://www.oceannews.com/feature-story/2014 -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 9:08 AM ? ? I have ? been trying to figure out what grade of steel it is. I ? figured it was titanium, but when I watched the documentary, ? they kept saying it was steel. My bust guess is it is ? HY-100?Merry Christmas,Scott ? Waters ? ? Sent ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? ? -------- Original message -------- ? From: via Personal_Submersibles? ? Date:12/25/2014? 6:32 AM? (GMT-07:00) ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger ? ? ? Merry Christmas, Scott, ? ? ? The 43"?sphere is steel 2.5" ? thick.? I don't think they have ? released any information on what grade steel was used.? ? They said?a cylinder would have had to be three times as thick to ? withstand the pressure, ? but I don't know if that was based on 43".? ? -Jim T. ? ? ? ? In a message dated 12/25/2014 12:27:52 A.M. Central ? Standard Time, ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ? ???What kind of metal is the personel sphere made of on ? James Camerons deep ???sea challenger sub? ???Thanks, ???Scott Waters ??? ? ??? ???Sent from my U.S. Cellular? ???Smartphone ??? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles ???mailing ???list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 15:54:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 13:54:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger Message-ID: <02as74kndh7fvt7qeh1i32ux.1419540864077@email.android.com> Awesome. Thank you very much for the info! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles Date:12/25/2014 10:59 AM (GMT-07:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger https://www.oceannews.com/feature-story/2014/08/29/technology-of-the-deepsea-challenge-expedition-part-3-of-3-deepsea-challenger -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 11:41 AM Try this link -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 11:34 AM Pressure Hull The 43-in. Diameter x 2.5-in. thick pressure hull is fabricated from high tensile steel EN26, invented in the 1940s for use in large Howitzer-type gun barrels. It is an alloy similar to that used on DSV Trieste?s pressure hull in its 1960 deep dive https://www.oceannews.com/feature-story/2014 -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep Sea Challenger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 9: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 17:55:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:55:13 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Compensating Message-ID: <1419548113.33794.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Has anyone looked into using? Fluorinert for thruster compensating ? Pete From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 18:14:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 15:14:29 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Compensating In-Reply-To: <1419548113.33794.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419549269.67646.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Pete, What is it?-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Compensating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 5:55 PM Has anyone looked into using? Fluorinert for thruster compensating ? Pete _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 18:15:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 17:15:46 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Compensating In-Reply-To: <1419548113.33794.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1419548113.33794.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0BCCB1EF-5B78-4468-AF72-2CFF27936D26@sbcglobal.net> No but properties look good. Non conductive, with an absolute viscosity of 4cp. This is about 1/4 the viscosity of mineral oil which is the primary component of marvel mystery oil. Great heat conductor. Cliff > On Dec 25, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Has anyone looked into using Fluorinert for thruster compensating ? > > Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Dec 25 18:31:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 15:31:13 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Compensating In-Reply-To: <1419548113.33794.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419550273.64928.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Pete, It is probably very good but it would cost about 500 dollars per motor to fill. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 12/25/14, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Compensating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, December 25, 2014, 5:55 PM Has anyone looked into using? Fluorinert for thruster compensating ? Pete _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 27 10:20:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 07:20:06 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor Message-ID: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Has anyone experimented or looked at submersible well pump motors for thruster motors. I believe they are oil filled and quite cheap. They are mostly 220v AC. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 27 14:12:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 19:12:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor In-Reply-To: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1795766260.1087674.1419707547111.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100172.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Hank,I did a bit of Googling looking at DC submersible pumps.It is bit of a hard task finding a DC pump with the voltage in the range you want& then beeing able to adapt it as a thruster. It would also be hard to tell what's insidetill you pull it apart.The parts of a thruster are cheap enough (apart from the gearbox)I am stalled in my thruster build. Just waiting for an item that controls my electronicspeed controller & monitors the batteries. What I'm not sure about is whether myBLDC motors are heavy duty enough & whether I can get away without using a gearbox.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2014 4:20 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor Has anyone experimented or looked at submersible well pump motors for thruster motors.? I believe they are oil filled and quite cheap.? They are mostly 220v AC. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 27 15:05:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 20:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor In-Reply-To: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <562511543.1082302.1419710714260.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100139.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,here is a link to some BLDC pumps with prices!http://www.solar-electric.com/wind-and-water-products/sodcwapu/sun-pumps/suscsbrdcsus/15hopu.html Alan? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2014 4:20 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor Has anyone experimented or looked at submersible well pump motors for thruster motors.? I believe they are oil filled and quite cheap.? They are mostly 220v AC. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 27 18:28:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:28:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Message-ID: <20141227152851.2C0323DB@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 27 18:53:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <20141227152851.2C0323DB@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419724422.35393.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit. I got the Stinke hood on ebay. There is a you tube video on how to use it. You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub. It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "PSubs" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM Hi All,????????????????? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 miles off shore you are required to have a immersion suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for submarine escape but the other type.? However I found this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 27 21:24:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:24:06 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor In-Reply-To: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <549F69C6.6090800@archivale.com> What a fascinating idea. With the right nozzle design, it might even be possible to use the original pump rotor. Two concerns: saltwater corrosion (they're presumably built for service in fresh water) and power supply. I know inverters are getting cheaper, but I don't know how sensitive these motors are to waveform. Marc On 12/27/2014 11:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Has anyone experimented or looked at submersible well pump motors for thruster motors. I believe they are oil filled and quite cheap. They are mostly 220v AC. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Dec 27 22:45:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 19:45:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Message-ID: <20141227194509.80FA19AB@m0048137.ppops.net> Hnak, Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit. I got the Stinke hood on ebay. There is a you tube video on how to use it. You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub. It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "PSubs" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM Hi All,????????????????? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 miles off shore you are required to have a immersion suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for submarine escape but the other type.? However I found this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 06:12:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 03:12:14 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <20141227194509.80FA19AB@m0048137.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419765134.62413.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I can get into the stinke hood inside the sub. The stinke hood is not as cumbersome as the suit you showed us. The stinke hood only goes to your waist. I think the hood apparatus may be problematic since it can not be inflated inside the sub. You might be able to in the K subs with their giant 26 inch hatches. We would need a long whip hose to inflate outside the sub, in total darkness and freezing cold and scared :-). I will need to get this figured out as I reach depths beyond a divers reach to untangle my sub. Silvercrest Submarines sells the escape suit your looking at, or at least something similar. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM Hnak,???Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "PSubs" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM Hi All,????????????????? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 miles off shore you are required to have a immersion suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for submarine escape but the other type.? However I found this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 09:16:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 28 Dec 2014 14:16 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <1419765134.62413.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419765134.62413.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1Y5Edz-26dscC0@fwd21.t-online.de> Escape with a Steinke Hood from a Psub.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtQ3HNuxcGA and without: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBshJ_avKFU On Euronaut each person on board has a Gasmask, a Steinke Hodd and a Divers suit (as Immersion suit). vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Brian, I can get into the stinke hood inside the sub. The stinke hood is not as cumbersome as the suit you showed us. The stinke hood only goes to your waist. I think the hood apparatus may be problematic since it can not be inflated inside the sub. You might be able to in the K subs with their giant 26 inch hatches. We would need a long whip hose to inflate outside the sub, in total darkness and freezing cold and scared :-). I will need to get this figured out as I reach depths beyond a divers reach to untangle my sub. Silvercrest Submarines sells the escape suit your looking at, or at least something similar. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM > > Hnak, Were you able > to get into the suit inside the sub? I assume you > tried this on dry land. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion > Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 > > Brian, > I carry both a hood and an emersion suit. I got the > Stinke hood on ebay. There is a you tube video on how > to use it. You would have to inflate the hood-vest > outside the sub. It will not work through the 18 inch > hatch, I tried. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion > Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 > To: "PSubs" > Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM > > Hi > All, > Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) > that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 > miles off shore you are required to have a immersion > suit. Your obviously not required to have one for > submarine escape but the other type. However I found > this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be > purchased > somewhere? Are they only available thru a Navy? I > wasn't able to find one for sale. And could > someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption > on? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm Brian > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 10:29:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:29:16 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exhaust valve Message-ID: <1419780556.17440.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Carsten, Can you tell me the best valve to use for diesel exhaust in a sub. Do you water cool the exhaust before it hits the valve. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 11:16:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:16:06 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <20141227194509.80FA19AB@m0048137.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419783366.75959.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I just tested the Steinke Hood through my hatch opening. I was wrong, I can fit through, but I have stiky outy parts that could catch on the appliance, I forgot that that was the issue. It is a snug fit but doable. I will try it with the emersion suit on next. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM Hnak,???Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "PSubs" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM Hi All,????????????????? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 miles off shore you are required to have a immersion suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for submarine escape but the other type.? However I found this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 11:45:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:45:23 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Message-ID: <20141228084523.80F922C3@m0048136.ppops.net> Hank, Those submarine immersion suits look even bulkier, especially because they have a small life raft as well, not sure if the life raft is a separate piece though. BTW, conning tower is complete now with 8 viewports all welded in, also making progress on the hatch, have one ring welded on as well as the small hatch viewport and the thru hatch shaft fitting in the center (7/8"). brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:16:06 -0800 Brian, I just tested the Steinke Hood through my hatch opening. I was wrong, I can fit through, but I have stiky outy parts that could catch on the appliance, I forgot that that was the issue. It is a snug fit but doable. I will try it with the emersion suit on next. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM Hnak,???Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "PSubs" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM Hi All,????????????????? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 miles off shore you are required to have a immersion suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for submarine escape but the other type.? However I found this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 11:50:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:50:38 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <20141228084523.80F922C3@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419785438.1975.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, Great news, get er done so I have an excuse to come down with Gamma. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 11:45 AM Hank, ? ? ? Those submarine immersion suits look even bulkier, especially because they have a small life raft as well, not sure if the life raft is a separate piece though.? ? BTW, conning tower is complete now with 8 viewports all welded in, also making progress on the hatch, have one ring welded on as well as the small hatch viewport and the thru hatch shaft fitting in the center (7/8"). brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion??? Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:16:06 -0800 Brian, I just tested the Steinke Hood through my hatch opening.? I was wrong, I can fit through, but I have stiky outy parts that could catch on the appliance, I forgot that that was the issue.? It is a snug fit but doable.???I will try it with the emersion suit on next. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM Hnak,???Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 ? To: "PSubs" ? Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM ? ? Hi ? All,????????????????? ? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) ? that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 ? miles off shore you are required to have a immersion ? suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for ? submarine escape but the other type.? However I found ? this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased ? somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I ? wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could ? someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption ? on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 11:52:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:52:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <20141228084523.80F922C3@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419785529.13859.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, There is a hood for sale on ebay right now for 80 dollars. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 11:45 AM Hank, ? ? ? Those submarine immersion suits look even bulkier, especially because they have a small life raft as well, not sure if the life raft is a separate piece though.? ? BTW, conning tower is complete now with 8 viewports all welded in, also making progress on the hatch, have one ring welded on as well as the small hatch viewport and the thru hatch shaft fitting in the center (7/8"). brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion??? Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:16:06 -0800 Brian, I just tested the Steinke Hood through my hatch opening.? I was wrong, I can fit through, but I have stiky outy parts that could catch on the appliance, I forgot that that was the issue.? It is a snug fit but doable.???I will try it with the emersion suit on next. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM Hnak,???Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 ? To: "PSubs" ? Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM ? ? Hi ? All,????????????????? ? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) ? that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 ? miles off shore you are required to have a immersion ? suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for ? submarine escape but the other type.? However I found ? this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased ? somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I ? wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could ? someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption ? on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 13:48:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:48:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Message-ID: <20141228104853.2C297207@m0005299.ppops.net> I don't see it --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:52:09 -0800 Brian, There is a hood for sale on ebay right now for 80 dollars. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 11:45 AM Hank, ? ? ? Those submarine immersion suits look even bulkier, especially because they have a small life raft as well, not sure if the life raft is a separate piece though.? ? BTW, conning tower is complete now with 8 viewports all welded in, also making progress on the hatch, have one ring welded on as well as the small hatch viewport and the thru hatch shaft fitting in the center (7/8"). brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion??? Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:16:06 -0800 Brian, I just tested the Steinke Hood through my hatch opening.? I was wrong, I can fit through, but I have stiky outy parts that could catch on the appliance, I forgot that that was the issue.? It is a snug fit but doable.???I will try it with the emersion suit on next. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM Hnak,???Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 ? To: "PSubs" ? Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM ? ? Hi ? All,????????????????? ? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) ? that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 ? miles off shore you are required to have a immersion ? suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for ? submarine escape but the other type.? However I found ? this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased ? somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I ? wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could ? someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption ? on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 14:01:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:01:14 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: US Navy Submarine Escape Hooded Appliance Message-ID: <1419793274.64765.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian here you go --- On Sun, 12/28/14, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: US Navy Submarine Escape Hooded Appliance > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 1:59 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Navy-Submarine-Escape-Hooded-Appliance-/121506645031?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 14:16:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:16:16 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: US Navy Submarine Escape Hooded Appliance Message-ID: <20141228111616.2C297292@m0005299.ppops.net> I got it ! should be here in a week ! --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: US Navy Submarine Escape Hooded Appliance Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:01:14 -0800 Brian here you go --- On Sun, 12/28/14, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: US Navy Submarine Escape Hooded Appliance > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 1:59 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Navy-Submarine-Escape-Hooded-Appliance-/121506645031?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 14:40:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:40:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Message-ID: <20141228114057.2C294DE8@m0005299.ppops.net> Hank, What is that valve on your hatch for? Equalizing pressure? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:50:38 -0800 Brian, Great news, get er done so I have an excuse to come down with Gamma. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 11:45 AM Hank, ? ? ? Those submarine immersion suits look even bulkier, especially because they have a small life raft as well, not sure if the life raft is a separate piece though.? ? BTW, conning tower is complete now with 8 viewports all welded in, also making progress on the hatch, have one ring welded on as well as the small hatch viewport and the thru hatch shaft fitting in the center (7/8"). brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion??? Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:16:06 -0800 Brian, I just tested the Steinke Hood through my hatch opening.? I was wrong, I can fit through, but I have stiky outy parts that could catch on the appliance, I forgot that that was the issue.? It is a snug fit but doable.???I will try it with the emersion suit on next. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM Hnak,???Were you able to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you tried this on dry land. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 ? To: "PSubs" ? Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM ? ? Hi ? All,????????????????? ? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) ? that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 ? miles off shore you are required to have a immersion ? suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for ? submarine escape but the other type.? However I found ? this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased ? somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I ? wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could ? someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption ? on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 14:52:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:52:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <20141228114057.2C294DE8@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419796341.84475.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, It is an over and under pressure valve and has proven to be very handy. I highly recommend putting one in your hatch. Hank------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 2:40 PM Hank,???What is that valve on your hatch for?? Equalizing pressure? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine??? Escape??? Immersion??? Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:50:38 -0800 Brian, Great news, get er done so I have an excuse to come down with Gamma. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape??? Immersion??? Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 11:45 AM Hank, ? ? ? Those submarine immersion suits look even bulkier, especially because they have a small life raft as well, not sure if the life raft is a separate piece though.? ? BTW, conning tower is complete now with 8 viewports all welded in, also making progress on the hatch, have one ring welded on as well as the small hatch viewport and the thru hatch shaft fitting in the center (7/8"). brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion??? Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:16:06 -0800 Brian, I just tested the Steinke Hood through my hatch opening.? I was wrong, I can fit through, but I have stiky outy parts that could catch on the appliance, I forgot that that was the issue.? It is a snug fit but doable.???I will try it with the emersion suit on next. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment??? (SEIE)??? MK-10 ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 10:45 PM ? ? Hnak,???Were you able ? to get into the suit inside the sub?? I assume you ? tried this on dry land. ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion ? Equipment (SEIE)??? MK-10 ? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:53:42 -0800 ? ? Brian, ? I carry both a hood and an emersion suit.? I got the ? Stinke hood on ebay.? There is a you tube video on how ? to use it.? You would have to inflate the hood-vest ? outside the sub.? It will not work through the 18 inch ? hatch, I tried. ? Hank ? -------------------------------------------- ? On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion ? Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 ? To: "PSubs" ? Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM ? ? Hi ? All,????????????????? ? Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) ? that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 ? miles off shore you are required to have a immersion ? suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for ? submarine escape but the other type.? However I found ? this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be ? purchased ? somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I ? wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could ? someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption ? on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 15:19:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 12:19:11 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma Message-ID: <20141228121911.2C294C09@m0005299.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 15:31:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 12:31:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma In-Reply-To: <20141228121911.2C294C09@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419798685.88343.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, That is the dive plane control. Yes it is very common to have shafts with oring seals. Gamma has 6 in total. My dive plane control is now a thruster release. I mounted a vertical thruster and it is jettisoning. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma To: "PSubs" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 3:19 PM Hank,?????????????? I've been looking at pictures of gamma, a couple of questions;? I noticed there are a couple of moving gadgets on there, like what I assume is a buoy release and then there is another deal I'm not sure what it is but it looks like some sort of control for something, it moves back and forth kind of near the manipulator arm, it looks it is has a shaft that slides in and out to control it, is that the case or is it a rotating shaft like all the other rotating shafts?? Just wondering if there are many sliding shafts ( like a piston type o ring seal ) out there on subs.?Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 15:40:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 09:40:15 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor In-Reply-To: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419693606.17316.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54a06ad1.497b460a.05be.4c50@mx.google.com> Now there's a thought. I just happen to have one sitting in my workshop. I got conned into replacing my bore pump and thought it looked quite smart. Never thought that it was oil filled. Need some sort of controller. Would a BLDC controller work on one? Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2014 4:20 a.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor Has anyone experimented or looked at submersible well pump motors for thruster motors. I believe they are oil filled and quite cheap. They are mostly 220v AC. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10933 (20141227) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 15:43:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 12:43:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor In-Reply-To: <54a06ad1.497b460a.05be.4c50@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1419799426.47389.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Not sure its oil filled but I think they are. Anyways they can be 300 feet deep in water in a well or more. Any they do look great all stainless. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 3:40 PM Now there's a thought.? I just happen to have one sitting in my workshop. I got conned into replacing my bore pump and thought it looked quite smart. Never thought that it was oil filled. Need some sort of controller.? Would a BLDC controller work on one? Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2014 4:20 a.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] well pump motor Has anyone experimented or looked at submersible well pump motors for thruster motors.? I believe they are oil filled and quite cheap.? They are mostly 220v AC. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10933 (20141227) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 15:54:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 09:54:13 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <1419724422.35393.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20141227152851.2C0323DB@m0005297.ppops.net> <1419724422.35393.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54a06e17.835a420a.2e3e.ffff909d@mx.google.com> There is some guy who has a bunch of these Steinke hoods he got as a job lot. Is there a contact number still around for him? I'd like to get a couple. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2014 12:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 Brian, I carry both a hood and an emersion suit. I got the Stinke hood on ebay. There is a you tube video on how to use it. You would have to inflate the hood-vest outside the sub. It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I tried. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 To: "PSubs" Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM Hi All, Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) that if you are a commercial vessel operating outside 3 miles off shore you are required to have a immersion suit.? Your obviously not required to have one for submarine escape but the other type.? However I found this MK-10 type through my searching, can these be purchased somewhere?? Are they only available thru a Navy? I wasn't able to find one for sale.? And could someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption on??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment?http:/ /www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm??Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10934 (20141227) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 15:57:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 12:57:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma Message-ID: <20141228125703.2C294F62@m0005299.ppops.net> Hank, I think the o ring configuration is almost identical to a rotating shaft seal correct? Maybe slight differences on the tolerances. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 12:31:25 -0800 Brian, That is the dive plane control. Yes it is very common to have shafts with oring seals. Gamma has 6 in total. My dive plane control is now a thruster release. I mounted a vertical thruster and it is jettisoning. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma To: "PSubs" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 3:19 PM Hank,?????????????? I've been looking at pictures of gamma, a couple of questions;? I noticed there are a couple of moving gadgets on there, like what I assume is a buoy release and then there is another deal I'm not sure what it is but it looks like some sort of control for something, it moves back and forth kind of near the manipulator arm, it looks it is has a shaft that slides in and out to control it, is that the case or is it a rotating shaft like all the other rotating shafts?? Just wondering if there are many sliding shafts ( like a piston type o ring seal ) out there on subs.?Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 16:00:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 13:00:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma In-Reply-To: <20141228125703.2C294F62@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1419800401.22773.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, yes for sure, it would be the same unless the rotating shaft is high speed maybe. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 3:57 PM Hank, I think the o ring configuration is almost identical to a rotating shaft seal correct?? Maybe slight differences on the tolerances. Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 12:31:25 -0800 Brian, That is the dive plane control.? Yes it is very common to have shafts with oring seals.? Gamma has 6 in total. My dive plane control is now a thruster release.? I mounted a vertical thruster and it is jettisoning. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 12/28/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma To: "PSubs" Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 3:19 PM Hank,?????????????? I've been looking at pictures of gamma, a couple of questions;? I noticed there are a couple of moving gadgets on there, like what I assume is a buoy release and then there is another deal I'm not sure what it is but it looks like some sort of control for something, it moves back and forth kind of near the manipulator arm, it looks it is has a shaft that slides in and out to control it, is that the case or is it a rotating shaft like all the other rotating shafts?? Just wondering if there are many sliding shafts ( like a piston type o ring seal ) out there on subs.?Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 16:00:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 13:00:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Escape Appliance Air Inflatable w Pouch Submarine Personnel Life Preserver | eBay Message-ID: <1419800451.57807.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Here ya go Hugh, he has multiples --- On Sun, 12/28/14, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: Escape Appliance Air Inflatable w Pouch Submarine Personnel Life Preserver | eBay > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 3:58 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/371203971234?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 17:31:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 12:31:22 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 In-Reply-To: <54a06e17.835a420a.2e3e.ffff909d@mx.google.com> References: <20141227152851.2C0323DB@m0005297.ppops.net> <1419724422.35393.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <54a06e17.835a420a.2e3e.ffff909d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <54A084BA.4000300@landnseawelding.com> I have about 35 or so "Fire escape smoke hoods" that I got for a real good deal. I am going to have 2 in my K-350 and a couple under my bed incase of house fire. The price was wright because they have expired their shelf life by about 3 years or so but they are all hermetically sealed and come in what looks like a water proof container with zipper. Claims to give you 30 minutes of good air in a smoke filled environment. Comes in a 5"X6.5"X3.75" soft container and is good for only one use. Let me know if there is any interest out there for one of these. Rick On 12/28/2014 10:54 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > There is some guy who has a bunch of these Steinke hoods he got as a job > lot. > Is there a contact number still around for him? I'd like to get a couple. > Hugh > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2014 12:54 p.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) > MK-10 > > Brian, > I carry both a hood and an emersion suit. I got the Stinke hood on ebay. > There is a you tube video on how to use it. You would have to inflate the > hood-vest outside the sub. It will not work through the 18 inch hatch, I > tried. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 12/27/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Escape Immersion Equipment (SEIE) MK-10 > To: "PSubs" > Received: Saturday, December 27, 2014, 6:28 PM > > Hi > All, > Starting in 2015 there is a new law ( like we need more) that if you are a > commercial vessel operating outside 3 miles off shore you are required to > have a immersion suit. Your obviously not required to have one for > submarine escape but the other type. However I found this MK-10 type > through my searching, can these be purchased somewhere? Are they only > available thru a Navy? I wasn't able to find one for sale. And could > someone get thru a 18" hatch with this contraption > on? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Immersion_Equipment http:/ > /www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-10-seie.htm Brian > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 10934 (20141227) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 10937 (20141228) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 10937 (20141228) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Dec 28 17:38:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 11:38:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Escape Appliance Air Inflatable w Pouch Submarine Personnel Life Preserver | eBay In-Reply-To: <1419800451.57807.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419800451.57807.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54a08682.0583440a.05de.ffffdc10@mx.google.com> Thanks Hank, I'm on to it. I don't think ebay knows where New Zealand is!! I think I'll just have to tell them. Kind regards, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 29 December 2014 10:01 a.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Escape Appliance Air Inflatable w Pouch Submarine Personnel Life Preserver | eBay Here ya go Hugh, he has multiples --- On Sun, 12/28/14, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: Escape Appliance Air Inflatable w Pouch Submarine Personnel Life Preserver | eBay > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Sunday, December 28, 2014, 3:58 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/371203971234?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10937 (20141228) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 13:52:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Message-ID: <1419879166.55167.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 14:05:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:05:03 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Message-ID: That is a really good question. I actually wondered the same thing. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:12/29/2014 12:52 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 14:43:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 11:43:11 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Message-ID: <20141229114311.80F4D966@m0048139.ppops.net> Hank, I would say no. It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 14:55:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 19:55:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <20141229114311.80F4D966@m0048139.ppops.net> References: <20141229114311.80F4D966@m0048139.ppops.net> Message-ID: <611469609.1440591.1419882925630.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100152.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depthon a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as youdo on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model.If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push it?at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, ? ? ? I would say no.? It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask !? I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much.? You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe.? The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail.? Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 15:06:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 12:06:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <611469609.1440591.1419882925630.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100152.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20141229114311.80F4D966@m0048139.ppops.net> <611469609.1440591.1419882925630.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100152.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number scaling enables you to scale results between model and full scale using either a water tunnel or air tunnel. Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depth on a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as you do on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick. What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model. If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push it at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust? Alan ________________________________ From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, I would say no. It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 15:26:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 15:26:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419879166.55167.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419879166.55167.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I remember wondering about the same thing. My theory is that because the physical properties of materials remain constant, in relative terms materials are higher performing the smaller your model. Think of a simple little single-cylinder gas engine for RC planes... it'll run at close to 20,000 rpm forever without complaint. Anyway, just my theory. Best, Alec On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 1:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi all > If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the > size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth > capabilities when pressure tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 15:35:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:35:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <100425225.1453539.1419885333281.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100111.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff,Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale geometrically.? You have to scale model and full scale off the dimensionless ?Reynolds number.?? Reynolds number scaling enables you to scale results between model and full scale using either a water tunnel or air tunnel. Cliff ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank,I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depthon a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as youdo on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model.If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push it?at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, ? ? ? I would say no.? It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask !? I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much.? You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe.? The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail.? Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 15:41:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 12:41:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419885663.25710.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale geometrically.? You have to scale model and full scale off the dimensionless ?Reynolds number.?? Reynolds number scaling enables you to scale results between model and full scale using either a water tunnel or air tunnel. Cliff ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank,I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depthon a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as youdo on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model.If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push it?at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, ? ? ? I would say no.? It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask !? I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much.? You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe.? The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail.? Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 15:44:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 12:44:34 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <611469609.1440591.1419882925630.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100152.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419885874.61112.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, If your calculator is correct, then it is fair to say that a model could demonstrate the failure depth. I am building a 3,000 psi test chamber from a 6in dia hydraulic cylinder 24 in long. This could be handy! Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/29/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 2:55 PM Hank,I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depthon a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as youdo on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model.If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push it?at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, ? ? ? I would say no.? It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask !? I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much.? You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe.? The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail.? Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 09:44:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 06:44:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419885663.25710.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419885663.25710.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419950691.85809.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, just to bring closure to this thread. Stress on the boat due to depth scales geometrically between motel and prototype. Drag scales based on Reynolds number. As an example for stress, go to Psubs.org flat acrylic viewport calculator that Jon coded based on PVHO http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/ Put in a 500 ft depth and a 10" viewable diameter Di and record all results for the acrylic viewport. Repeat with same depth but 1/10" the viewable diameter, i.e., 1" and record results. Note that all dimension scale geometrically. This is based on the assumption that the material is isotropic. These results would not be true for anisotropic materials like a carbon fiber layup were material properties are directional dependent. Additionally for carbon fiber, you would not be able to scale the scale the size of the fibers. So if you are using an isotropic material such as steel, and can fabricate a dimensionally corrected scaled model of a component like a pressure hull including details like weld filler size, then crush depth observed in the motel test cell would match the full scale prototype. Like any experiment, you would need multiple test to average the results. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number scaling enables you to scale results between model and full scale using either a water tunnel or air tunnel. Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank,I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depthon a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as youdo on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model.If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push it at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, I would say no. It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 11:56:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 08:56:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419950691.85809.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419958609.80085.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff Thank you, that is perfect. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/30/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 30, 2014, 9:44 AM Hank, just to bring closure to this thread.? Stress on the boat due to depth scales geometrically between motel and prototype.? Drag scales based on Reynolds number. As an example for stress, go to Psubs.org flat acrylic viewport calculator that Jon coded based on PVHO http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/ Put in a 500 ft depth and a 10" viewable diameter Di and record all results for the acrylic viewport.? Repeat with same depth but 1/10" the viewable diameter, i.e., 1" and record results.? Note that all dimension scale geometrically.? This is based on the assumption that the material is isotropic.?These results would not be true for anisotropic materials like a carbon fiber layup were material properties are? directional dependent.? Additionally for carbon fiber, you would not be able to scale the scale the size of the fibers. So if you are using an isotropic material such as steel, and can fabricate a?dimensionally corrected scaled model of a component like a pressure hull including details like weld filler size, then crush depth observed in the motel test cell would match the full scale prototype.? Like any?experiment, you would need multiple test to average the results. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons.? I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale geometrically.? You have to scale model and full scale off the dimensionless ?Reynolds number.?? Reynolds number scaling enables you to scale results between model and full scale using either a water tunnel or air tunnel. Cliff ? ? ? ? ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing ? ? Hank,I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depthon a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as youdo on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model.If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push ? it?at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust?Alan ? ? ? ? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing ? ? Hank, ? ? ? I would say no.? It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and ? aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask !?? I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much.? You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe.? The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail.? Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 13:35:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 11:35:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419950691.85809.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419885663.25710.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419950691.85809.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1959232744.28133994.1419964549174.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net> Reynolds number matching allows you to model viscous drag, but form drag modelling (eg. Surface wave resistance) requires matching the Froude number. Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 07:44:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, just to bring closure to this thread. Stress on the boat due to depth scales geometrically between motel and prototype. Drag scales based on Reynolds number. As an example for stress, go to Psubs.org flat acrylic viewport calculator that Jon coded based on PVHO http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/ Put in a 500 ft depth and a 10" viewable diameter Di and record all results for the acrylic viewport. Repeat with same depth but 1/10" the viewable diameter, i.e., 1" and record results. Note that all dimension scale geometrically. This is based on the assumption that the material is isotropic. These results would not be true for anisotropic materials like a carbon fiber layup were material properties are directional dependent. Additionally for carbon fiber, you would not be able to scale the scale the size of the fibers. So if you are using an isotropic material such as steel, and can fabricate a dimensionally corrected scaled model of a component like a pressure hull including details like weld filler size, then crush depth observed in the motel test cell would match the full scale prototype. Like any experiment, you would need multiple test to average the results. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth.Hank --------------------------------------------On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number scaling enables you to scale results between model and full scale using either a water tunnel or air tunnel. Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank,I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depthon a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as youdo on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a model.If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force to push it at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Hank, I would say no. It would have to be so exact that it would be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the better I would think. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 Hi all If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth capabilities when pressure tested? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 14:08:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 30 Dec 2014 19:08 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419885663.25710.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419885663.25710.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1Y62A6-2Dznhg0@fwd15.t-online.de> If the scale factor is 1:1 it shall work.. :-0 vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM > > Drag > results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off > the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number > scaling enables you to scale results between model and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > thick as youdo on a > sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am > not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a > model.If you > have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to push > it at 3 > knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required > thrust?Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank, > I would say > no. It would have to be so exact that it would be > virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, > and > aside from that I think there are other engineering > principles involved that would come into play , Sean would > be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at > laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so > much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it > would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If you > make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. > Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable > representation of depth capabilities when pressure > tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 14:11:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 30 Dec 2014 19:11 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419958609.80085.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1419958609.80085.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1Y62CO-2Vlefw0@fwd40.t-online.de> It would be not so easy to make 1/10 T- frames or welds.. "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Hi Cliff > Thank you, that is perfect. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 12/30/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Tuesday, December 30, 2014, 9:44 AM > > Hank, > just to bring closure to this thread. Stress on the boat > due to depth scales geometrically between motel and > prototype. Drag scales based on Reynolds > number. > As an example > for stress, go to Psubs.org flat acrylic viewport calculator > that Jon coded based on PVHO http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/ > Put in a 500 ft depth and a 10" > viewable diameter Di and record all results for the acrylic > viewport. Repeat with same depth but 1/10" the > viewable diameter, i.e., 1" and record results. Note > that all dimension scale geometrically. This is based on > the assumption that the material is isotropic. These > results would not be true for anisotropic materials like a > carbon fiber layup were material properties are > directional dependent. Additionally for carbon fiber, you > would not be able to scale the scale the size of the > fibers. > So if you are > using an isotropic material such as steel, and can fabricate > a dimensionally corrected scaled model of a component like > a pressure hull including details like weld filler size, > then crush depth observed in the motel test cell would match > the full scale prototype. Like any experiment, you would > need multiple test to average the results. > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA > mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > > I am not > looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due > to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton > subs > were built as a model first to establish crush depth. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 > PM > > Drag > > results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically. You have to scale model and > full scale off > the dimensionless Reynolds > number. Reynolds number > scaling > enables you to scale results between model and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model > testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my > pressure program & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphere of A516-70 > steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > > thick as youdo on a > sphere 100mm diameter > & 1mm thick.What I am > not sure of is if > you can scale up the drag results on a > > model.If you > have a scale model that is > 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to > push > it at 3 > knots, can > you multiply X by 50 to get the required > > thrust?Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox > via > Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model > testing > > > Hank, > I would say > no. It would have to be so exact that it > would be > virtually impossible to > extrapolate from the small model, > and > aside from that I think there are other > engineering > principles involved that would > come into play , Sean would > be the person > to ask ! I know that it is done in wave > > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at > laminar flow and such things, not structural > strength so > much. You might be able to > get a rough idea of how it > would start to > collapse maybe. The larger the model the > > better I would think. > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If > you > make a scale model of a submarine in > complete detail. > Scale the size and metal > thickness, is it a reasonable > > representation of depth capabilities when pressure > tested? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 14:33:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:33:52 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1959232744.28133994.1419964549174.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net> References: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419885663.25710.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419950691.85809.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1959232744.28133994.1419964549174.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net> Message-ID: Concur Sent from my iPad > On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Reynolds number matching allows you to model viscous drag, but form drag modelling (eg. Surface wave resistance) requires matching the Froude number. > > Sean > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 07:44:51 -0700 (MST) > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > > Hank, just to bring closure to this thread. Stress on the boat due to depth scales geometrically between motel and prototype. Drag scales based on Reynolds number. > > As an example for stress, go to Psubs.org flat acrylic viewport calculator that Jon coded based on PVHO http://www.psubs.org/design/viewports/1ATMFD/ > > Put in a 500 ft depth and a 10" viewable diameter Di and record all results for the acrylic viewport. Repeat with same depth but 1/10" the viewable diameter, i.e., 1" and record results. Note that all dimension scale geometrically. This is based on the assumption that the material is isotropic. These > results would not be true for anisotropic materials like a carbon fiber layup were material properties are directional dependent. Additionally for carbon fiber, you would not be able to scale the scale the size of the fibers. > > So if you are using an isotropic material such as steel, and can fabricate a dimensionally corrected scaled model of a component like a pressure hull including details like weld filler size, then crush depth observed in the motel test cell would match the full scale prototype. Like any experiment, you would need multiple test to average the results. > > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs > were built as a model first to establish crush depth. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM > > Drag > results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off > the dimensionless Reynolds > number. Reynolds number > scaling enables you to scale results between model and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > thick as youdo on a > sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am > not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a > model.If you > have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to push > it at 3 > knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required > thrust?Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank, > I would say > no. It would have to be so exact that it would be > virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, > and > aside from that I think there are other engineering > principles involved that would come into play , Sean would > be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at > laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so > much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it > would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If you > make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. > Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable > representation of depth capabilities when pressure > tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Dec 29 16:22:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:22:50 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20141229114311.80F4D966@m0048139.ppops.net> <611469609.1440591.1419882925630.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100152.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Reynolds number scaling only helps with viscous forces. Form drag comparisons require scaling the Froude number. Sean On December 29, 2014 12:06:49 PM PST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale >geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off the >dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number scaling enables you >to scale results between model and full scale using either a water >tunnel or air tunnel. > >Cliff > > > > > >________________________________ >From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > >Hank, >I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depth >on a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as >you >do on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick. >What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a >model. >If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of force >to push it >at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust? >Alan > > > > >________________________________ >From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > >Hank, >I would say no. It would have to be so exact that it would be >virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and aside >from that I think there are other engineering principles involved that >would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask ! I know that >it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking >at laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so much. You >might be able to get a rough idea of how it would start to collapse >maybe. The larger the model the better I would think. > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > >Hi all >If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale the >size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of depth >capabilities when pressure tested? >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 15:10:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 20:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1Y62A6-2Dznhg0@fwd15.t-online.de> References: <1Y62A6-2Dznhg0@fwd15.t-online.de> Message-ID: <150572563.1692597.1419970217512.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10050.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank,I know you have a phobia here, but you could model it in a computerif you bought a few programs!After one Canadian winter locked inside for months, you'd probably start?enjoying it.Alan From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing If?thescale factor is 1:1 it shall work..?:-0 ?vbr Carsten "hank pronk viaPersonal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > I am not looking for drag comparisons, I amlooking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read thatthe Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crushdepth. > Hank -------------------------------------------- >On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] modeltesting > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM > > Drag > results between a model and full scale does notscale > geometrically.? You have to scale model and fullscale off > the dimensionless ?Reynolds number.??Reynolds number > scaling enables you to scale results betweenmodel and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > ? > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my pressureprogram & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphereof A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > thick asyoudo on a > sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What Iam > not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results ona > model.If you > have a scale model that is 1/50th &it takes X amount of > force to push > it?at3 > knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required > thrust?Alan > > > > From: BrianCox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank, > ? ? ? I wouldsay > no.? It would have to be so exact that it wouldbe > virtually impossible to extrapolate from the smallmodel, > and > aside from that I think there are otherengineering > principles involved that would come into play ,Sean would > be the person to ask !? I know that it is donein wave > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are lookingat > laminar flow and such things, not structural strengthso > much.? You might be able to get a rough idea of howit > would start to collapse maybe.? The larger the modelthe > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 201410:52:46 -0800 > > Hiall > If you > make a scale model of a submarine incomplete detail.? > Scale the size and metal thickness, isit a reasonable > representation of depth capabilities whenpressure > tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline AttachmentFollows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 16:40:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:40:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tolerance question Message-ID: <20141230134047.2C29EFBD@m0005299.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 17:23:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 30 Dec 2014 22:23 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <150572563.1692597.1419970217512.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10050.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1Y62A6-2Dznhg0@fwd15.t-online.de> <150572563.1692597.1419970217512.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10050.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1Y65Bz-26iHOi0@fwd14.t-online.de> FEA (Finite Element Analysis) is a comon way. We did it that way on Euronaut, Sgt.Peppers and the Eurosub class boats. But if you have not a friend familary with this - maybe expensive. Ask students of a technical university.. This link shows a detail of the diver exit hatch. http://www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/technic/3.jpg Attachment is from Sgt.Peppers after installing the top hatch and before the chamber pressure test. Conclusions was two more bars in the hatch. Boat survife the pressure test - with installed bars. vbr Carsten "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hank, I know you have a phobia here, but you could model it in a computer if you bought a few programs! After one Canadian winter locked inside for months, you'd probably start enjoying it. Alan From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing If the scale factor is 1:1 it shall work.. :-0 vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM > > Drag > results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off > the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number > scaling enables you to scale results between model and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > thick as youdo on a > sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am > not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a > model.If you > have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to push > it at 3 > knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required > thrust?Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank, > I would say > no. It would have to be so exact that it would be > virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, > and > aside from that I think there are other engineering > principles involved that would come into play , Sean would > be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at > laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so > much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it > would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If you > make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. > Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable > representation of depth capabilities when pressure > tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: rond_deformatie1with saddletanks..JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 75604 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 18:52:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 15:52:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <150572563.1692597.1419970217512.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10050.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419983545.97443.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, An engineering degree saves a lot of testing for sure, a computer program also saves a lot of testing. In the absence of both, a model and pressure testing is the answer for me. I really only want to test one area, so I don't have to make tiny t bars, :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/30/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, December 30, 2014, 3:10 PM Hank,I know you have a phobia here, but you could model it in a computerif you bought a few programs!After one Canadian winter locked inside for months, you'd probably start?enjoying it.Alan From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing If?the scale factor is 1:1 it shall work..?:-0 ?vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM > > Drag > results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically.? You have to scale model and full scale off > the dimensionless ?Reynolds number.?? Reynolds number > scaling enables you to scale results between model and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > ? > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > thick as youdo on a > sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am > not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a > model.If you > have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to push > it?at 3 > knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required > thrust?Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank, > ? ? ? I would say > no.? It would have to be so exact that it would be > virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, > and > aside from that I think there are other engineering > principles involved that would come into play , Sean would > be the person to ask !? I know that it is done in wave > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at > laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so > much.? You might be able to get a rough idea of how it > would start to collapse maybe.? The larger the model the > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If you > make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail.? > Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable > representation of depth capabilities when pressure > tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 20:09:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 09:09:53 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: References: <20141229114311.80F4D966@m0048139.ppops.net> <611469609.1440591.1419882925630.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100152.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54A34CE1.8070509@archivale.com> I thought Froude number scaling only applied to wave drag, that is to surface running effects. Marc On 12/30/2014 5:22 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Reynolds number scaling only helps with viscous forces. Form drag > comparisons require scaling the Froude number. > > Sean > > > > On December 29, 2014 12:06:49 PM PST, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off the > dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number scaling enables > you to scale results between model and full scale using either a > water tunnel or air tunnel. > > Cliff > > > > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > Hank, > I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depth > on a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as you > do on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick. > What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a > model. > If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to push it > at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust? > Alan > > > > *From:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > Hank, > I would say no. It would have to be so exact that it would > be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and > aside from that I think there are other engineering principles > involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask > ! I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in > those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not > structural strength so much. You might be able to get a rough idea > of how it would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale > the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of > depth capabilities when pressure tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submers! ibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 20:43:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 19:43:04 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <54A34CE1.8070509@archivale.com> References: <20141229114311.80F4D966@m0048139.ppops.net> <611469609.1440591.1419882925630.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100152.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1419883609.90246.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <54A34CE1.8070509@archivale.com> Message-ID: <0A8F9E7B-85EA-4D0D-89AF-F143C446CB57@sbcglobal.net> Fronde number for surface effects and Reynolds number for submerged drag, both form drag and viscous friction on a streamlined surface. Cliff > On Dec 30, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I thought Froude number scaling only applied to wave drag, that is to surface running effects. > > Marc > >> On 12/30/2014 5:22 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Reynolds number scaling only helps with viscous forces. Form drag >> comparisons require scaling the Froude number. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> On December 29, 2014 12:06:49 PM PST, Cliff Redus via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Drag results between a model and full scale does not scale >> geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off the >> dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number scaling enables >> you to scale results between model and full scale using either a >> water tunnel or air tunnel. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> *Sent:* Monday, December 29, 2014 1:55 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> >> Hank, >> I just ran a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush depth >> on a sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm thick as you >> do on a sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick. >> What I am not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a >> model. >> If you have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of >> force to push it >> at 3 knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required thrust? >> Alan >> >> >> >> *From:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 30, 2014 8:43 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> >> Hank, >> I would say no. It would have to be so exact that it would >> be virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, and >> aside from that I think there are other engineering principles >> involved that would come into play , Sean would be the person to ask >> ! I know that it is done in wave tanks and wind tunnels, but in >> those you are looking at laminar flow and such things, not >> structural strength so much. You might be able to get a rough idea >> of how it would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the >> better I would think. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > > >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 >> >> Hi all >> If you make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. Scale >> the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable representation of >> depth capabilities when pressure tested? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submers! ibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Dec 30 21:35:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 18:35:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Message-ID: <20141230183546.2C0C0DB5@m0005309.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 31 06:26:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 31 Dec 2014 11:26 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <20141230183546.2C0C0DB5@m0005309.ppops.net> References: <20141230183546.2C0C0DB5@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1Y6HQT-0d9Ghk0@fwd39.t-online.de> Brian, we have each two cardridge in the exchange filters for the mask. One is unse in case of fire against smoke or in case of battery clorine or other gases. And the other cardridge we customize to absorb CO2 in case main LSS filter didnt work anymore. They are military surplus from Finland and came brandnew for just some bucks. During building I have a fire in a bed madraze becuase of we?lding close by. The smoke fill the compartmnet in seconds with no view anymore and nearly unbreathable atmosphere. But we have also a scuba automat lifeline system on 6 station on board in case of fire or out of oxygen situation. And mobile fire extingusher and a high fog mist fire fighting system in each compartment. Also Steinke Hoods, diver suits, diver scuba equipment, 1 liferaft, 1 inflate rubber boat, 3x 1ts drop weights, Emergency oxygen bottles for weeks, emergency CO2 filters (we double it - 4 in total) Last but not least a first aid set from a car. And most inportant a complet workshop in the engine room. The diver exist room can be use as rescue chamber wit a mirror of all systems for air, oxygen, filters on its own. On the future plan are a complete set from a Ambulance car including defilibrator, oxygen inhalator, medicine etc. We get older and on real offshore operation we are maybe far awawy from other ships and pepole and have to fix our problems ourself.. I have a book abouit emergency situations on civil submarine from russia. There major accident clear to identfy: - Fire on board, - boat catch on the bottom - diving with open hatch or launching accident. Deep charges or torpedos seems not an issue for privat submarines - so we not have equipment to prevent that.. (I write this line so I can be sure that this email will be stored in a mountain in Montana for ever..) There are many old submariners and there are many brave submariners. But there are not so much old and brave submariners.. (Okay I steal this from the pilots..) vbr Carsten "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Carsten, What to you use the gas masks for? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: 30 Dec 2014 19:08 GMT If the scale factor is 1:1 it shall work.. :-0 vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM > > Drag > results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off > the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number > scaling enables you to scale results between model and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > thick as youdo on a > sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am > not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a > model.If you > have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to push > it at 3 > knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required > thrust?Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank, > I would say > no. It would have to be so exact that it would be > virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, > and > aside from that I think there are other engineering > principles involved that would come into play , Sean would > be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at > laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so > much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it > would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If you > make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. > Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable > representation of depth capabilities when pressure > tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 31 10:57:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 07:57:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Message-ID: <20141231075731.80FBC0A2@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 31 11:25:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:25:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1Y6HQT-0d9Ghk0@fwd39.t-online.de> References: <20141230183546.2C0C0DB5@m0005309.ppops.net> <1Y6HQT-0d9Ghk0@fwd39.t-online.de> Message-ID: <6df09435-a791-4e71-a015-1ad1d3d4b67d@email.android.com> Carsten, what is the title of that book? Sean On December 31, 2014 3:26:00 AM PST, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >Brian, > >we have each two cardridge in the exchange filters for the mask. >One is unse in case of fire against smoke or in case of battery clorine >or other gases. >And the other cardridge we customize to absorb CO2 in case main LSS >filter didnt work anymore. >They are military surplus from Finland and came brandnew for just some >bucks. > >During building I have a fire in a bed madraze becuase of we?lding >close >by. >The smoke fill the compartmnet in seconds with no view anymore and >nearly unbreathable atmosphere. > >But we have also a scuba automat lifeline system on 6 station on board >in case of fire or out of oxygen situation. >And mobile fire extingusher and a high fog mist fire fighting system in >each compartment. > >Also Steinke Hoods, diver suits, diver scuba equipment, 1 liferaft, 1 >inflate rubber boat, >3x 1ts drop weights, Emergency oxygen bottles for weeks, emergency CO2 >filters (we double it - 4 in total) >Last but not least a first aid set from a car. And most inportant a >complet workshop in the engine room. >The diver exist room can be use as rescue chamber wit a mirror of all >systems for air, oxygen, filters on its own. > >On the future plan are a complete set from a Ambulance car including >defilibrator, oxygen inhalator, medicine etc. >We get older and on real offshore operation we are maybe far awawy from >other ships and pepole and have to fix our problems ourself.. > >I have a book abouit emergency situations on civil submarine from >russia. >There major accident clear to identfy: >- Fire on board, >- boat catch on the bottom >- diving with open hatch or launching accident. > >Deep charges or torpedos seems not an issue for privat submarines - so >we not have equipment to prevent that.. >(I write this line so I can be sure that this email will be stored in a >mountain in Montana for ever..) > >There are many old submariners and there are many brave submariners. >But there are not so much old and brave submariners.. >(Okay I steal this from the pilots..) > >vbr Carsten > >"Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" >schrieb: >Carsten, What to you use the gas masks for? > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles > >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >Date: 30 Dec 2014 19:08 GMT > >If the scale factor is 1:1 it shall work.. :-0 > > vbr Carsten > >"hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" > >schrieb: >> >> I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due >to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were >built as a model first to establish crush depth. >> Hank -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM >> >> Drag >> results between a model and full scale does not scale >> geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off >> the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number >> scaling enables you to scale results between model and full >> scale using either a water tunnel or air >> tunnel. >> Cliff >> >> >> >> From: Alan James via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> To: Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Sent: Monday, >> December 29, 2014 1:55 PM >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> >> >> Hank,I just ran >> a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush >> depthon a >> sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm >> thick as youdo on a >> sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am >> not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a >> model.If you >> have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of >> force to push >> it at 3 >> knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required >> thrust?Alan >> >> >> >> From: Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> To: Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, >> December 30, 2014 8:43 AM >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> >> >> Hank, >> I would say >> no. It would have to be so exact that it would be >> virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, >> and >> aside from that I think there are other engineering >> principles involved that would come into play , Sean would >> be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave >> tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at >> laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so >> much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it >> would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the >> better I would think. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 >> >> Hi all >> If you >> make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. >> Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable >> representation of depth capabilities when pressure >> tested? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 31 18:45:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 31 Dec 2014 23:45 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <6df09435-a791-4e71-a015-1ad1d3d4b67d@email.android.com> References: <20141230183546.2C0C0DB5@m0005309.ppops.net> <1Y6HQT-0d9Ghk0@fwd39.t-online.de> <6df09435-a791-4e71-a015-1ad1d3d4b67d@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1Y6SxN-1EX5we0@fwd33.t-online.de> B.D.Sacharaow, A.W.Sytin, A.P.Jurnew "Havarien unter Wasser " (The german copy) Brandenburgisches Verlagshaus 1991, Brerlin, Germany ISBN 3-327-01220-2 the orginal in in russian languages 1986 dont know if a english copy exist. May search for the 3 autors. Contains havaries of 1964 - 1980 Nekton Beta, Johnson Sea link, Yuzuki, Moana, Trieste II, Asherah, Denise, Aluminaut, Alvin, Star III, Deep Diver, Deep Star 4000, Shelf Diver, Deep Quest, Sea Cliff, Ben Franklin, Guppy. Cyana, Yomuri, Pisces III, TS1(PC-9), PC 1602 vbr Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Carsten, what is the title of that book? Sean On December 31, 2014 3:26:00 AM PST, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Brian, we have each two cardridge in the exchange filters for the mask. One is unse in case of fire against smoke or in case of battery clorine or other gases. And the other cardridge we customize to absorb CO2 in case main LSS filter didnt work anymore. They are military surplus from Finland and came brandnew for just some bucks. During building I have a fire in a bed madraze becuase of we?lding close by. The smoke fill the compartmnet in seconds with no view anymore and nearly unbreathable atmosphere. But we have also a scuba automat lifeline system on 6 station on board in case of fire or out of oxygen situation. And mobile fire extingusher and a high fog mist fire fighting system in each compartment. Also Steinke Hoods, diver suits, diver scuba equipment, 1 liferaft, 1 inflate rubber boat, 3x 1ts drop weights, Emergency oxygen bottles for weeks, emergency CO2 filters (we double it - 4 in total) Last but not least a first aid set from a car. And most inportant a complet workshop in the engine room. The diver exist room can be use as rescue chamber wit a mirror of all systems for air, oxygen, filters on its own. On the future plan are a complete set from a Ambulance car including defilibrator, oxygen inhalator, medicine etc. We get older and on real offshore operation we are maybe far awawy from other ships and pepole and have to fix our problems ourself.. I have a book abouit emergency situations on civil submarine from russia. There major accident clear to identfy: - Fire on board, - boat catch on the bottom - diving with open hatch or launching accident. Deep charges or torpedos seems not an issue for privat submarines - so we not have equipment to prevent that.. (I write this line so I can be sure that this email will be stored in a mountain in Montana for ever..) There are many old submariners and there are many brave submariners. But there are not so much old and brave submariners.. (Okay I steal this from the pilots..) vbr Carsten "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Carsten, What to you use the gas masks for? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing Date: 30 Dec 2014 19:08 GMT If the scale factor is 1:1 it shall work.. :-0 vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were built as a model first to establish crush depth. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM > > Drag > results between a model and full scale does not scale > geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off > the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number > scaling enables you to scale results between model and full > scale using either a water tunnel or air > tunnel. > Cliff > > > > From: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Monday, > December 29, 2014 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank,I just ran > a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush > depthon a > sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm > thick as youdo on a > sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am > not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a > model.If you > have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of > force to push > it at 3 > knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required > thrust?Alan > > > > From: Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Tuesday, > December 30, 2014 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > > > Hank, > I would say > no. It would have to be so exact that it would be > virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, > and > aside from that I think there are other engineering > principles involved that would come into play , Sean would > be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave > tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at > laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so > much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it > would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the > better I would think. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 > > Hi all > If you > make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. > Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable > representation of depth capabilities when pressure > tested? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 31 19:06:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:06:34 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing In-Reply-To: <1Y6SxN-1EX5we0@fwd33.t-online.de> References: <20141230183546.2C0C0DB5@m0005309.ppops.net> <1Y6HQT-0d9Ghk0@fwd39.t-online.de> <6df09435-a791-4e71-a015-1ad1d3d4b67d@email.android.com> <1Y6SxN-1EX5we0@fwd33.t-online.de> Message-ID: <44c95daa-fca4-4c76-b69b-90424f15e495@email.android.com> Thanks. Sean On December 31, 2014 3:45:00 PM PST, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >B.D.Sacharaow, >A.W.Sytin, >A.P.Jurnew > >"Havarien unter Wasser " (The german copy) > >Brandenburgisches Verlagshaus 1991, Brerlin, Germany >ISBN 3-327-01220-2 > > the orginal in in russian languages 1986 > >dont know if a english copy exist. >May search for the 3 autors. > >Contains havaries of 1964 - 1980 >Nekton Beta, Johnson Sea link, Yuzuki, Moana, Trieste II, >Asherah, Denise, Aluminaut, Alvin, Star III, Deep Diver, Deep Star >4000, > >Shelf Diver, Deep Quest, Sea Cliff, Ben Franklin, Guppy. >Cyana, Yomuri, Pisces III, TS1(PC-9), PC 1602 > >vbr Carsten > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >Carsten, what is the title of that book? >Sean > > > > >On December 31, 2014 3:26:00 AM PST, ""Carsten Standfu?" via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >Brian, > >we have each two cardridge in the exchange filters for the mask. >One is unse in case of fire against smoke or in case of battery clorine >or other gases. >And the other cardridge we customize to absorb CO2 in case main LSS >filter didnt work anymore. >They are military surplus from Finland and came brandnew for just some >bucks. > >During building I have a fire in a bed madraze becuase of we?lding >close >by. >The smoke fill the compartmnet in seconds with no view anymore and >nearly unbreathable atmosphere. > >But we have also a scuba automat lifeline system on 6 station on board >in case of fire or out of oxygen situation. >And mobile fire extingusher and a high fog mist fire fighting system in >each compartment. > >Also Steinke Hoods, diver suits, diver scuba equipment, 1 liferaft, 1 >inflate rubber boat, >3x 1ts drop weights, Emergency oxygen bottles for weeks, emergency CO2 >filters (we double it - 4 in total) >Last but not least a first aid set from a car. And most inportant a >complet workshop in the engine room. >The diver exist room can be use as rescue chamber wit a mirror of all >systems for air, oxygen, filters on its own. > >On the future plan are a complete set from a Ambulance car including >defilibrator, oxygen inhalator, medicine etc. >We get older and on real offshore operation we are maybe far awawy from >other ships and pepole and have to fix our problems ourself.. > >I have a book abouit emergency situations on civil submarine from >russia. >There major accident clear to identfy: >- Fire on board, >- boat catch on the bottom >- diving with open hatch or launching accident. > >Deep charges or torpedos seems not an issue for privat submarines - so >we not have equipment to prevent that.. >(I write this line so I can be sure that this email will be stored in a >mountain in Montana for ever..) > >There are many old submariners and there are many brave submariners. >But there are not so much old and brave submariners.. >(Okay I steal this from the pilots..) > >vbr Carsten > >"Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" >schrieb: >Carsten, What to you use the gas masks for? > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles > >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >Date: 30 Dec 2014 19:08 GMT > >If the scale factor is 1:1 it shall work.. :-0 > > vbr Carsten > >"hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" > >schrieb: >> >> I am not looking for drag comparisons, I am looking for failure due >to pressure comparisons. I though I read that the Nekton subs were >built as a model first to establish crush depth. >> Hank -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 12/29/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Monday, December 29, 2014, 3:06 PM >> >> Drag >> results between a model and full scale does not scale >> geometrically. You have to scale model and full scale off >> the dimensionless Reynolds number. Reynolds number >> scaling enables you to scale results between model and full >> scale using either a water tunnel or air >> tunnel. >> Cliff >> >> >> >> From: Alan James via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> To: Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Sent: Monday, >> December 29, 2014 1:55 PM >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> >> >> Hank,I just ran >> a test on my pressure program & you get the same crush >> depthon a >> sphere of A516-70 steel that is 1000mm diameter & 10mm >> thick as youdo on a >> sphere 100mm diameter & 1mm thick.What I am >> not sure of is if you can scale up the drag results on a >> model.If you >> have a scale model that is 1/50th & it takes X amount of >> force to push >> it at 3 >> knots, can you multiply X by 50 to get the required >> thrust?Alan >> >> >> >> From: Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> To: Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, >> December 30, 2014 8:43 AM >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> >> >> Hank, >> I would say >> no. It would have to be so exact that it would be >> virtually impossible to extrapolate from the small model, >> and >> aside from that I think there are other engineering >> principles involved that would come into play , Sean would >> be the person to ask ! I know that it is done in wave >> tanks and wind tunnels, but in those you are looking at >> laminar flow and such things, not structural strength so >> much. You might be able to get a rough idea of how it >> would start to collapse maybe. The larger the model the >> better I would think. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] model testing >> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:52:46 -0800 >> >> Hi all >> If you >> make a scale model of a submarine in complete detail. >> Scale the size and metal thickness, is it a reasonable >> representation of depth capabilities when pressure >> tested? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >Personal_Submersibles mailing >listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Dec 31 19:54:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 18:54:27 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Metal comparison Message-ID: Happy New Year! Does anyone know the difference between EN26 steel and HY-80 steel? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: