[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

Alan James alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 27 14:08:54 EST 2014


I bought a window winder unit for $1-. It has a worm gear which is important,
as when you power off it will hold the load. Nice slow speed on the final drive
and a reasonable amount of power. 
Alan


________________________________
 From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
 


Cool. I am still in the research stage of an arm. I will eventually get there.
Thanks,
Scott




Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Scott,
You can also pick up an old power seat from a car.  The seat has three or four motors in one housing that drives cables or little drive shafts.  Also you can use the linier actuators and slides.  that is how I made my first arm  a life time ago.
Hank  
 



On Monday, January 27, 2014 5:58:01 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Oil compensated drill motor is a good idea. I have been trying to design a manipulator for Trustworthy. 
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
Phil Nuytten <phil at philnuytten.com> wrote:

There is no movement of the air pistons when they are not in use – that is, 
there is no air in the pistons once you exhaust the pressurization air back into 
the one atmosphere cabin. The pistons are then dead-headed until you energize 
them again. Note that this simple little system is designed to be used while the 
sub is on the bottom. I have used it up off bottom but it gets pretty busy 
maintaining position by VBT or upthrust and operating the manip valves at the 
same time.
If you really want to go ultracheap on an electric manip, buy a reversible 
dc electric drill, stick it in a thin walled tube, fill it with oil, set it on 
slow and use the rotation to operate a rack and pinion system which gives you a 
lineal movement like a piston  (run the rotary shaft through a camera case 
style o ring gland or an imperial tubing fitting or a  swagelock style 
compression fitting with an oring or teflon ring substitiuting for the 
compression olive or the metal compression ring)– rack and pinion all stay out 
side in the water. We built several of these to use with a small ROV and it 
worked OK – (also used two drill motors for propulsion  on the ROV!)
Phil
 
From: Alan James 
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:48 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
 
Thanks Phil, great system description.
I 
tried Googling for the sea urchin manipulator but couldn't even find the Sea 
Urchin.
Would 
appreciate seeing any pictures of it.
One 
question. How do you counter the variations in pressure as you dive & 
ascend
from 
causing the cylinders piston to move in & out or do you just live with 
this?
From the frustration I've heard from K 
boat builders through ambiguities in the plans,
dangerous 
elements in the design (hard ballast tank) & antiquated parts, it might be timely 
to 
ditch the Kitrege plans & replace 
them.  But I might get shot for saying that.
Alan

 
From: Phil 
Nuytten <phil at philnuytten.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 9:52 
AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 
Manipulators

 
Yes, as Vance says we did work up a pneumatic manip for the original ‘Sea 
Urchin’ sub. The design criteria was: brute simple, three functions 
(extend/retract, swing 90 degrees each side/ jaw open/close) and, above all, 
CHEAP!! we used air cylinders, plastic tubing and three-way valves – one for 
each function. The valves exhausted back into the sub cabin. The system pressure 
was about 200 psi, as I recall, and the manip was operated independently from a 
scuba pony tank mounted outside for that purpose. System  pressure was kept 
at 200 psi over bottom, regardless of depth  by the first stage of a scuba 
regulator with the spring shimmed to 200 psi and the reg yoked to the tank in 
the usual fashion. Very simple system and it worked well – the exhaust into the 
cabin was so small as to cause only a slight increase in cabin pressure because 
the piston area is only a couple of square inches. Over pressure on a move into 
shallower water was avoided by a circle-seal non-return vent valve – same one 
used to suck a vacuum on the sub before diving. 
I have some pretty good pictures of the manip on Sea Urchin which I’ll try 
to dig up and post. Speaking of Sea Urchin, I have often toyed with the the idea 
of putting out a  Sea Urchin Kit – ala Kitteridge - but don’t know how much 
interest there would be.
Phil
 
From: Alan James 
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:54 AM
To: Personal 
Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
 
Here is a great looking manipulator for .31c US.
Not 
sure what the postage is from Poland. I tried the "buy now" on another link but 
couldn't 
initiate a purchase. 
http://http//robosklep.eu/sklep/pl/p/Hydraulic-Arm/231

Alan
 
From: Alan 
James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: 
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

 
Thanks Vance,
I'll 
have a look in to the pneumatic manipulator; however there are 
problems
that 
come to mind, like how do you stop the whole unit going in & out like a 
concertina
with 
water pressure changes.
Alan
 
From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Saturday, January 
25, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 
Manipulators

 
I can't answer, as I have precisely 
zero experience with pneumo manips. Nuytco did in fact cook one up for the Sea 
Urchin, which seemed to work okay, but I don't know anything about it. Sorry. 
That said, if it's cheap and it works (even if it's a pain in the ass) then it's 
worth having. Subs should be able to DO something, not just cruise around like 
an oversized camera housing with motors. I'd give serious consideration to the 
ball and socket arm, which functions adequately down to about 600 feet 
(according to the boys who have used them). We figure one would cost about 
$500-600 USD to machine, plus material and welding. A thousand bucks or a little 
more isn't bad, considering there are exactly three moving parts in the whole 
thing (as opposed to a hydraulic system which has about 3 moving parts to the 
running inch).  
Vance



-----Original 
Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014 
3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators


One more question Vance & I'll leave you in peace
for a week.
For a small non commercial submersible operating to 500 ft
that has a very limited use for a manipulator other than it being there 
just in case we come across some item of value. Is a pneumatic manipulator 
a good
option? Air is already there & wouldn't be consumed much because
of the limited use. No noise & expensive space consuming hydraulic 
system.
And as you say there are options for lifting heavier items.
Thanks,
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 25/01/2014, at 8:01 am, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:


I particularly liked the PVC tube with the furled lift  bag and air source, now that's got real "get work done" utility.
>
>It seems to me that a permanently mounted air 
        source terminating just aft of the claw is a natural companion set-up 
        for anyone with a manipulator on a PSUB. 
>
>Joe
>
>Sent 
        from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
> 
>From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
>To: Personal  Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
>Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators 
>Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014 6:09:42 PM 
>
>
>Thanks Vance,
>that's  shed some light on the subject.
>Alan
> 
>From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
>To: Personal  Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]  Manipulators
>
> 
>Alan,
>I've seen the discussion. The smallest sub I know of with a  manipulator on board is the Deepworker. No exfra tanks there.  Metacentric vs CG works in all directions. Yes, you get movement and no  it's not a problem in my experience. I did operate the bigger subs but  also smaller ones, to include Aquarius, briefly in a DW, plus three  different K-boats, so speak with some experience. You put everything you  imagine on a small sub, you get a big sub. In any case, It's probably  best to think of a psub as a work in progress. Get the boat done, go  play, scratch head, get more work done, go play, scratch head......and  so it goes.
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jan 24, 2014, at 3:20 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>Vance,
>>a couple of people have mentioned lately the problem of the  shifting of
>>balance as you reach out with a manipulator & have talked  about countering it with
>>trim tanks. Is it a big deal if you go nose down, tail up?  Possibly more of a problem working on a 
>>vertical face than picking something up off the bottom. 
>>Some of our subs will be a lot smaller than the working subs you were in so the problem would be 
>>accentuated in our case.
>>Can you give us some of your experience on  this thanks & in your opinion is it worth messing
>>about with the trim while operating the  manipulator.
>>Alan
>>
>> 
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