From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 3 05:08:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 10:08:52 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? Message-ID: No sub activities going on? or is my email not working properly? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 3 05:20:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 21:20:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can hear you James. The Americans are probably asleep. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/07/2014, at 9:08 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > No sub activities going on? or is my email not working properly? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 3 05:38:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 10:38:55 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alan, Ok, thanks. Just thought its been very quiet for a day or so. On 3 July 2014 10:20, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I can hear you James. > The Americans are probably asleep. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 3/07/2014, at 9:08 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > No sub activities going on? or is my email not working properly? > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 3 06:02:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 03:02:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1404381744.36389.YahooMailNeo@web140506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, ? Not everyone is asleep. ? What is an easy to use CAD program I can use to design a sub. I looked at Autodesk Fusion, but it's not easy to figure out. ? Thanks, Chris Christopher Cave christophercave at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2014 5:20 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? I can hear you James. The Americans are probably asleep. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/07/2014, at 9:08 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > No sub activities going on?? or is my email not working properly? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 3 06:57:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 22:57:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? In-Reply-To: <1404381744.36389.YahooMailNeo@web140506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1404381744.36389.YahooMailNeo@web140506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58772BC6-982E-43F4-9741-EECD99FF9E8F@yahoo.com> Hi Chris, it amazes me at what times people email on their time zone. I bought Rhino 5 & the plug in "Orca" which is a marine design program. I also bought Scan & Solve which is a basic FEA program & plug in for Rhino. Jay Jeffries who used to post on Psubs advised me to get these. He was very competent in this area. I looked at Solid Works, but it would have taken me years to learn & cost a bomb. It would have been OK if I was using it 40 hours a week. There is a good video course by Rob McCulloch at " Infinite Skills" that is well worth buying if you do go with Rhino. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/07/2014, at 10:02 pm, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan,rn. > > Not everyone is asleep. > > What is an easy to use CAD program I can use to design a sub. I looked at Autodesk Fusion, but it's not easy to figure out. > > Thanks, > Chris > > Christopher Cave > > christophercave at yahoo.com > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2014 5:20 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? > > I can hear you James. > The Americans are probably asleep. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 3/07/2014, at 9:08 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > No sub activities going on? or is my email not working properly? > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 3 07:00:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 23:00:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? In-Reply-To: <1404381744.36389.YahooMailNeo@web140506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1404381744.36389.YahooMailNeo@web140506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A further thought Chis is that I had previously learnt Photo shop & found Rhino a bit similar. You can down load it for free & try it out. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/07/2014, at 10:02 pm, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Not everyone is asleep. > > What is an easy to use CAD program I can use to design a sub. I looked at Autodesk Fusion, but it's not easy to figure out. > > Thanks, > Chris > > Christopher Cave > > christophercave at yahoo.com > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2014 5:20 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test - anyone there? > > I can hear you James. > The Americans are probably asleep. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 3/07/2014, at 9:08 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > No sub activities going on? or is my email not working properly? > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 7 04:57:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 09:57:46 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] X ray Submarine art. Message-ID: Hi All, Ive been contacted by a London artist who specialises in X-ray imagery. He wants to produce an X ray image of a psub. I'm not really that fussed about it myself, plus all the hastle involved. Also im not sure what X rays would do to acrylic. Probably nothing, but you never know. Anyway, Its not for me but he seems a nice enough guy and I promised i'd see if there was anyone interested. Contact me off list. His website. www.x-rayartist.com Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 7 05:40:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 02:40:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] X ray Submarine art. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1404726044.38342.YahooMailNeo@web140505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> James, ? I have a 2yr degree in X-ray Technology (I'm an X-ray Technologist). I take x-rays of people in the hospital. The x-rays won't harm the acrylic. It takes a lot of kvp & mas (voltage & amount of electrons) to penetrate metal. Plus there is a scattering effect when some of the electrons bounce off instead of going through the metal. I suggest you don't be in the area when he takes the x-rays! If you are have plenty of shielding & distance between you and the x-ray source & the x-ray target, it might be ok to hang around. Good luck! ? Regards, Chris Christopher Cave christophercave at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 4:57 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] X ray Submarine art. Hi All, Ive been contacted by a London artist who specialises in X-ray imagery.? He wants to produce an X ray image of a psub.? I'm not really that fussed about it myself, plus all the hastle involved.? Also im not sure what X rays would do to acrylic.? Probably nothing, but you never know. Anyway, Its not for me but he seems a nice enough guy and?I promised i'd see if there was anyone interested.? Contact me off list. His website. http://www.x-rayartist.com/ Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 7 12:31:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:31:47 -0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] X ray Submarine art. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2672187410e33b971630aebab3af30f9.squirrel@www.airesearch.nl> Radiation can age or Damage plastics. The UV part of sunlight The same.. Emile > Ive been contacted by a London artist who specialises in X-ray imagery. > He > wants to produce an X ray image of a psub. I'm not really that fussed > about it myself, plus all the hastle involved. Also im not sure what X > rays would do to acrylic. Probably nothing, but you never know. > > Anyway, Its not for me but he seems a nice enough guy and I promised i'd > see if there was anyone interested. Contact me off list. > > His website. > > www.x-rayartist.com > > Regards > James > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 7 20:11:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham Hotel & Conference Registration Message-ID: <19862.7c56335.40ec9128@aol.com> Ladies and Gentlemen: If you have not already made your hotel reservations for Bellingham, I would encourage you to do so ASAP. The link below, the body of this email, and the attachment should tell you everything you need to know. Also, the conference registration information and link is now on the PSUBS home page: http://psubs.org/ Cheers, Jim _Click here: The Best Western Lakeway Inn, Bellingham Washington_ (http://www.thelakewayinn.com/) LODGING BLOCK August 21-24, 2014 Room Reservation Procedure Reservations to be made by individuals by calling the hotel direct at 1-888-671-1011. BE SURE TO TELL THE RESERVATIONIST YOU ARE RESERVING WITHIN THE PSUBS BLOCK Room Block Release Date The cut off date for room block reservations is July 30, 2014. After this date, rooms not picked up will be released in to general hotel inventory. After the room release date, if guestrooms are available, a prevailing rate will apply. Room block to be secured under ?PSUBS Group.? Check In/Out Policy Check In: After 3:00pm. While every effort is made to accommodate guests arriving before check in time, rooms may not be immediately available. Check Out: Noon. Requests to remain beyond noon should be directed to the hotel?s Front Desk. Cancellation Policy If you wish to cancel an individual room reservation within your block, a 24-hour notice is required prior to arrival to avoid cancellations penalties. If cancellation occurs within the 24-hours before arrival, a charge of one night?s room rate + tax will apply and charged to credit card or direct bill on file. The above charges apply for no-shows and no refunds will be given. Method of Payment & Payment Deadline Lodging payment is the responsibility of individuals on own via credit card provided at call-in. Complimentary Parking & Shuttle Transportation Parking is complimentary, located on all sides of the hotel with over 400 parking slots available. Complimentary shuttle transportation is available to & from the Bellingham International Airport and Amtrak/Greyhound Station. Lakeway Inn Point of Contact: Lakeway Inn & Convention Center Email: _Christine at bellingham-hotel.com_ (mailto:Christine at bellingham-hotel.com) Contact: Christine Jenkins, Group Sales Mgr Address: 714 Lakeway Drive City/State/Zip: Bellingham, WA 98229 Toll Free: 1-888-671-1011 Phone: 360-671-1011 (Front Desk) Fax: 360-676-8519 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LakewayInnAmenitiesandServices.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 143515 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 8 10:53:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 15:53:40 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] X ray Submarine art. In-Reply-To: <2672187410e33b971630aebab3af30f9.squirrel@www.airesearch.nl> References: <2672187410e33b971630aebab3af30f9.squirrel@www.airesearch.nl> Message-ID: Hi Emile, Yes, makes sense. Regards James On 7 July 2014 17:31, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Radiation can age or Damage plastics. The UV part of sunlight The same.. > > Emile > > > Ive been contacted by a London artist who specialises in X-ray imagery. > > He > > wants to produce an X ray image of a psub. I'm not really that fussed > > about it myself, plus all the hastle involved. Also im not sure what X > > rays would do to acrylic. Probably nothing, but you never know. > > > > Anyway, Its not for me but he seems a nice enough guy and I promised i'd > > see if there was anyone interested. Contact me off list. > > > > His website. > > > > www.x-rayartist.com > > > > Regards > > James > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 00:21:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 21:21:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham Hotel & Conference Registration In-Reply-To: <19862.7c56335.40ec9128@aol.com> References: <19862.7c56335.40ec9128@aol.com> Message-ID: <006b01cf9b2d$40dc0b70$c2942250$@telus.net> Hi Jim, I will register my wife as a non-member (and maybe one to three others). Please confirm that you have me registered as a member who will be attending with a submarine. Looking forward to it. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-07-14 5:11 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham Hotel & Conference Registration Ladies and Gentlemen: If you have not already made your hotel reservations for Bellingham, I would encourage you to do so ASAP. The link below, the body of this email, and the attachment should tell you everything you need to know. Also, the conference registration information and link is now on the PSUBS home page: http://psubs.org/ Cheers, Jim Click here: The Best Western Lakeway Inn, Bellingham Washington LODGING BLOCK August 21-24, 2014 Room Reservation Procedure Reservations to be made by individuals by calling the hotel direct at 1-888-671-1011. BE SURE TO TELL THE RESERVATIONIST YOU ARE RESERVING WITHIN THE PSUBS BLOCK Room Block Release Date The cut off date for room block reservations is July 30, 2014. After this date, rooms not picked up will be released in to general hotel inventory. After the room release date, if guestrooms are available, a prevailing rate will apply. Room block to be secured under ?PSUBS Group.? Check In/Out Policy Check In: After 3:00pm. While every effort is made to accommodate guests arriving before check in time, rooms may not be immediately available. Check Out: Noon. Requests to remain beyond noon should be directed to the hotel?s Front Desk. Cancellation Policy If you wish to cancel an individual room reservation within your block, a 24-hour notice is required prior to arrival to avoid cancellations penalties. If cancellation occurs within the 24-hours before arrival, a charge of one night?s room rate + tax will apply and charged to credit card or direct bill on file. The above charges apply for no-shows and no refunds will be given. Method of Payment & Payment Deadline Lodging payment is the responsibility of individuals on own via credit card provided at call-in. Complimentary Parking & Shuttle Transportation Parking is complimentary, located on all sides of the hotel with over 400 parking slots available. Complimentary shuttle transportation is available to & from the Bellingham International Airport and Amtrak/Greyhound Station. Lakeway Inn Point of Contact: Lakeway Inn & Convention Center Email: Christine at bellingham-hotel.com Contact: Christine Jenkins, Group Sales Mgr Address: 714 Lakeway Drive City/State/Zip: Bellingham, WA 98229 Toll Free: 1-888-671-1011 Phone: 360-671-1011 (Front Desk) Fax: 360-676-8519 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 07:33:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham Hotel & Conference Registration Message-ID: <1952b.55aec583.40ee8289@aol.com> Good morning, Tim, Welcome aboard. Glad to hear you're coming and bringing a sub. I don't see the conference registrations; Jon Wallace does. Would you please contact me Off List at _jimtoddpsub at aol.com_ (mailto:jimtoddpsub at aol.com) and I will provide some more information for sub owners in attendance. Best regards, Jim In a message dated 7/8/2014 11:22:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi Jim, I will register my wife as a non-member (and maybe one to three others). Please confirm that you have me registered as a member who will be attending with a submarine. Looking forward to it. Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 18:16:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 15:16:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge Message-ID: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Does anyone have an opinion on using scrubber cartridges in a scrubber.? Seems a nice clean way to go. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 19:10:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 19:10:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> What kind of cartridge? Are you referring to Micropore? Jon On 7/9/2014 6:16 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Does anyone have an opinion on using scrubber cartridges in a > scrubber. Seems a nice clean way to go. > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 19:49:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 16:49:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, Yes Micropore Extend Air, they claim they last two times as long by volume.? I am thinking about?ordering one to try it out. Hank On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 7:10:51 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What kind of cartridge?? Are you referring to Micropore? Jon On 7/9/2014 6:16 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on using scrubber cartridges in a scrubber.? Seems a nice clean way to go. >Hank > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 22:05:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 22:05:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53BDF4DC.2020004@psubs.org> I have tried promoting Micropore products a lot in the past but general consensus was that cost outweighs convenience and it never really caught on. We had Micropore reps as our guest at the 2008 convention and discussed pros/cons of modifying their rebreather canisters for personal submarine use. They had even offered to do some testing for us and at one time PSUBS was moving toward dealership of their products. Look at the following link to see how I proposed modifications of their smaller canister without any permanent damage to the original. Never tested however, the big question was appropriate air flow to provide ultimate dwell time for the CO2 and efficient absorption. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567801/extendairscrubbermod I always felt the convenience was worth the price and plan on using Micropore as modified above in the K600. Jon On 7/9/2014 7:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > Yes Micropore Extend Air, they claim they last two times as long by > volume. I am thinking about ordering one to try it out. > Hank > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 23:00:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 20:00:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: <53BDF4DC.2020004@psubs.org> References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDF4DC.2020004@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1404961214.67830.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, Agreed Hank On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:05:16 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have tried promoting Micropore products a lot in the past but general consensus was that cost outweighs convenience and it never really caught on.? We had Micropore reps as our guest at the 2008 convention and discussed pros/cons of modifying their rebreather canisters for personal submarine use.? They had even offered to do some testing for us and at one time PSUBS was moving toward dealership of their products. Look at the following link to see how I proposed modifications of their smaller canister without any permanent damage to the original.? Never tested however, the big question was appropriate air flow to provide ultimate dwell time for the CO2 and efficient absorption. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567801/extendairscrubbermod I always felt the convenience was worth the price and plan on using Micropore as modified above in the K600. Jon On 7/9/2014 7:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, >Yes Micropore Extend Air, they claim they last two times as long by volume.? I am thinking about?ordering one to try it out. >Hank > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 9 23:14:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 20:14:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: <1404961214.67830.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDF4DC.2020004@psubs.org> <1404961214.67830.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1404962070.58975.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Maybe we can do a real life cost comparison.? How much does Sodasorb cost per hr of use.? How well does it stay fresh when sitting partly used in a scrubber.? I find that I throw a lot of absorbent away, probably from?a lack of experience working with it.? Hank On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:00:14 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, Agreed Hank On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:05:16 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have tried promoting Micropore products a lot in the past but general consensus was that cost outweighs convenience and it never really caught on.? We had Micropore reps as our guest at the 2008 convention and discussed pros/cons of modifying their rebreather canisters for personal submarine use.? They had even offered to do some testing for us and at one time PSUBS was moving toward dealership of their products. Look at the following link to see how I proposed modifications of their smaller canister without any permanent damage to the original.? Never tested however, the big question was appropriate air flow to provide ultimate dwell time for the CO2 and efficient absorption. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567801/extendairscrubbermod I always felt the convenience was worth the price and plan on using Micropore as modified above in the K600. Jon On 7/9/2014 7:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, >Yes Micropore Extend Air, they claim they last two times as long by volume.? I am thinking about?ordering one to try it out. >Hank > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 10 04:33:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:33:04 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: <1404962070.58975.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDF4DC.2020004@psubs.org> <1404961214.67830.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1404962070.58975.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I like the scrubbers with the see through canisters & the absorbent that changes color. Emile has this, & you can see how much absorbent you have left from anywhere in the sub. No waste with this. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/07/2014, at 3:14 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Maybe we can do a real life cost comparison. How much does Sodasorb cost per hr of use. How well does it stay fresh when sitting partly used in a scrubber. I find that I throw a lot of absorbent away, probably from a lack of experience working with it. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:00:14 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, > Agreed > Hank > > > On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:05:16 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > I have tried promoting Micropore products a lot in the past but general consensus was that cost outweighs convenience and it never really caught on. We had Micropore reps as our guest at the 2008 convention and discussed pros/cons of modifying their rebreather canisters for personal submarine use. They had even offered to do some testing for us and at one time PSUBS was moving toward dealership of their products. > > Look at the following link to see how I proposed modifications of their smaller canister without any permanent damage to the original. Never tested however, the big question was appropriate air flow to provide ultimate dwell time for the CO2 and efficient absorption. > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567801/extendairscrubbermod > > I always felt the convenience was worth the price and plan on using Micropore as modified above in the K600. > > Jon > > >> On 7/9/2014 7:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, >> Yes Micropore Extend Air, they claim they last two times as long by volume. I am thinking about ordering one to try it out. >> Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 10 08:40:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 05:40:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDF4DC.2020004@psubs.org> <1404961214.67830.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1404962070.58975.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1404996042.75631.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, It seems that when I let absorbent sit in the scrubber between dives it goes bad.? I remove the scrubber and put it in a plastic bag and seal it.? Maybe I am creating a condensation situation.?I think James mentioned that he removes the?absorbent ?and stores it in the original containers.? Maybe that is the way to go.? I also have used 20yr old?absorbent ?and it worked great.? Anyways I will buy a few cartridges and see how they work.? Hank On Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:33:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I like the scrubbers with the see through canisters & the absorbent that changes color. Emile has this, & you can ?see how much absorbent you have left from anywhere in the sub. No waste with this. Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/07/2014, at 3:14 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe we can do a real life cost comparison.? How much does Sodasorb cost per hr of use.? How well does it stay fresh when sitting partly used in a scrubber.? I find that I throw a lot of absorbent away, probably from?a lack of experience working with it.? >Hank > > > >On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:00:14 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Jon, >Agreed >Hank > > > >On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:05:16 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > >I have tried promoting Micropore products a lot in the past but general consensus was that cost outweighs convenience and it never really caught on.? We had Micropore reps as our guest at the 2008 convention and discussed pros/cons of modifying their rebreather canisters for personal submarine use.? They had even offered to do some testing for us and at one time PSUBS was moving toward dealership of their products. > >Look at the following link to see how I proposed modifications of their smaller canister without any permanent damage to the original.? Never tested however, the big question was appropriate air flow to provide ultimate dwell time for the CO2 and efficient absorption. > >http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567801/extendairscrubbermod > >I always felt the convenience was worth the price and plan on using Micropore as modified above in the K600. > >Jon > > > >On 7/9/2014 7:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Jon, >>Yes Micropore Extend Air, they claim they last two times as long by volume.? I am thinking about?ordering one to try it out. >>Hank >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 10 09:39:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 14:39:24 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber cartridge In-Reply-To: <1404996042.75631.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1404944205.77710.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDCBE5.7010802@psubs.org> <1404949756.54370.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53BDF4DC.2020004@psubs.org> <1404961214.67830.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1404962070.58975.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1404996042.75631.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: yes, seems to work fine for me putting it back into the original bottle. It seems to be fine for the next time. I then write on the bottle how long its been used for. Just get a nice big funnel to pour it back in with. On 10 July 2014 13:40, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > It seems that when I let absorbent sit in the scrubber between dives it > goes bad. I remove the scrubber and put it in a plastic bag and seal it. > Maybe I am creating a condensation situation. I think James mentioned that > he removes the absorbent and stores it in the original containers. Maybe > that is the way to go. I also have used 20yr old absorbent and it worked > great. Anyways I will buy a few cartridges and see how they work. > Hank > > > On Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:33:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hank, > I like the scrubbers with the see through canisters & the absorbent that > changes > color. Emile has this, & you can see how much absorbent you have left > from anywhere > in the sub. No waste with this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 10/07/2014, at 3:14 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Maybe we can do a real life cost comparison. How much does Sodasorb cost > per hr of use. How well does it stay fresh when sitting partly used in a > scrubber. I find that I throw a lot of absorbent away, probably from a > lack of experience working with it. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:00:14 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, > Agreed > Hank > > > On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:05:16 PM, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > I have tried promoting Micropore products a lot in the past but general > consensus was that cost outweighs convenience and it never really caught > on. We had Micropore reps as our guest at the 2008 convention and > discussed pros/cons of modifying their rebreather canisters for personal > submarine use. They had even offered to do some testing for us and at one > time PSUBS was moving toward dealership of their products. > > Look at the following link to see how I proposed modifications of their > smaller canister without any permanent damage to the original. Never > tested however, the big question was appropriate air flow to provide > ultimate dwell time for the CO2 and efficient absorption. > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567801/extendairscrubbermod > > I always felt the convenience was worth the price and plan on using > Micropore as modified above in the K600. > > Jon > > > On 7/9/2014 7:49 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > Yes Micropore Extend Air, they claim they last two times as long by > volume. I am thinking about ordering one to try it out. > Hank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 10 15:50:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:50:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: JW Fishers Company News - Historic shipwreck discovered! In-Reply-To: <1a233183647cc3145fa2240209643bff36d.20140710181256@mail28.wdc03.rsgsv.net> References: <1a233183647cc3145fa2240209643bff36d.20140710181256@mail28.wdc03.rsgsv.net> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: JW Fishers Mfg. Date: Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 2:13 PM Subject: JW Fishers Company News - Historic shipwreck discovered! To: psub101 at indy.rr.com *The monthly email newsletter from JW Fishers Mfg.* *Experts in underwater search* *Historic Shipwreck Discovered!* *Main photo: Diver scans reef for magnetic anomalies with Fishers Diver Mag-1 magnetometer. Top inset: Searching a wreck site with the PT-1 pinpointing magnetometer. Bottom inset: Artists rendition of Le Griffon. * * Steven Libert, president of the Great Lakes Exploration Group, announced he has located what is believed to be the remains of Le Griffon, the first European ship to have sailed the upper Great Lakes. The 45 ton barque carrying 7 cannons was built by the legendary French explorer Rene-Robert Cavalier, Sieur de La Salle who was attempting to establish a **Northwest Passage** through **Canada**. **La Salle** wanted to provide a faster way to connect **France** with its trading partners in the **Far East** and Le Griffon was to be a vital link in the route between Niagra and **Illinois**. On its maiden voyage the ship sailed through unchartered waters across **Lake Erie**, **Lake Huron**, and **Lake Michigan**. On its return trip Le Griffon and her crew of six disappeared. Libert has spent the last 30 years researching historical records and conducting exploratory dives in upper **Lake Michigan**. On one of his these dives last summer Libert and his group discovered an area with a large hand-hewn wood timber protruding from the bottom. It is thought to be the vessel?s bowsprit and carbon dating tests done on a sample by Beta Analytic Laboratories in Miami and the University of Arizona are promising, but not conclusive. To confirm the exact identity of the vessel requires locating more items from the site, but with much of the ship entombed in the lake bottom, some high tech equipment is needed. Key artifacts to find would be one or more of the seven cannons. To effectively search the football field size area, Libert has acquired JW Fishers PT-1 pinpointing magnetometer. A powerful detector of ferrous metal, the PT-1 can easily locate individual ferrous artifacts even on a wreck site littered with many iron objects. To protect the scientific and historic value of this incredible find, a partnership has been established with the state of **Michigan** and the **Republic** of * *France**. Work is continuing as weather permits.* * Another explorer utilizing the magnetometer is professor and maritime archaeologist Greg Cook at the **University** of **West Florida** in * *Pensacola**. ?The thrill of discovery is what I love about archaeology? says Cook. ?When you pick up an artifact that is more than a century old, its like travelling through time?. The professor works with the university?s Archaeology Institute, which is both an educational and research facility. Part of their mission is the examination of historic and prehistoric sites, both on land and underwater. In addition to a professional staff of nine archaeologists, the institute has artifact conservation labs, exhibit space, and lots of special equipment including remote sensors for the marine environment. One of these devices is Fishers Diver Mag 1 hand-held magnetometer which can locate a large wreck at more than a quarter mile away. Another device is Fishers Pulse 8X underwater metal detector which helps in locating the nonferrous metal artifacts.* * The southeast Asian country of the **Philippines** is made up of more than 7,000 islands. Over the centuries explorers from around world have traded with it?s inhabitants, and over the years thousands of ships have crashed on its reefs, sunk in typhoons and been plundered in wars. The area is a veritable graveyard of historic wrecks which caught the attention Captain Steve Morgan, who was fascinated by the tales of these lost ships and their valuable cargoes of porcelain, jewels, and riches. In the 1990?s Morgan formed a company, Black Coach Management, and began to acquire the men and equipment needed to find these historic time capsules. Three of the pieces the group picked up was JW Fishers SeaOtter ROV, a remote operated vehicle with high resolution video camera capable of descending to depths of 500 feet, a Diver Mag 1 magnetometer, and the Pulse 8X metal detector. One of the first wrecks the Black Coach team began to hunt was a Spanish Galleon that had sailed from the province of Palawan in the late 1700s carrying three large bronze bells for the newly constructed catholic missions in California. The ship was attacked and sunk by pirates and for more than 200 years lay hidden on the bottom of the **South China Sea**. The remains were discovered by local divers who came upon what the described as ?a reef on the bottom that is not really a reef?. That ?reef? proved to be the ship?s cargo arranged in a pile 60 feet long, 10 feet high, and more than 25 feet wide. Morgan and his team, working with Philippine archaeologists, used the ROV to survey the wreck lying at a depth of 170 feet. Divers were then sent down with the metal detector and magnetometer and recovered hundreds of artifacts from the site. * * A few of the many other explorers and archaeologists using Fishers detectors are Dr. Bridget Buxton with Univ. of Rhode Island, Dr. Charles Beeker at Indiana Univ., Clive Cussler?s NUMA, Mel Fishers? Salvors Inc, Cultural Resources Dept. Biscayne Ntl. Park in Florida, Odyssey Marine Exploration, North Carolina? Dept. of Cultural Resources, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, Max-Planck Institute in Germany, and Sea Heritage Panama.* * For more information on JW Fishers complete line of underwater search equipment go to www.jwfishers.com .* JW Fishers PT-1 pinpointing magnetometer *The PT-1 pinpointing magnetometer is the ideal tool for iron pipelines and steel armored cables. The PT-1 has both audio and visual readouts. Included in the kit are land and underwater earphones, along with AC & DC battery chargers. The rechargeable batteries power the PT-1 for 15 continuous hours. Hard carry case is optional.* * The PT-1 not only tracks pipes and cables, it will also locate anchors, chains, dredge heads, weapons, explosive devices and any other ferrous metal object within its detection range. To request a technical data sheet on the PT-1 or any of Fishers underwater search systems email to * *info at jwfishers.com* * or go to www.jwfishers.com .* JW Fishers Diver Mag-1 magnetometer * This hand-held magnetometer is a super sensitive detector of ferrous metal (iron/steel) that works equally well on land and underwater. With a one gamma sensitivity this microprocessor driven marine magnetometer can detect pipelines, cables, wreck sites, anchors, moorings, tools, weapons, and just about any ferrous metal object of any size. Ruggedly constructed for commercial operations, the Diver Mag was designed with user friendly controls for ease of operation. A five digit LED display and underwater earphone alert the operator to the presence of a metal target. The large LED display is easy to see even in dark or murky water. An internal 12 volt rechargeable battery powers the system for two continuous hours. An external battery pack is also available which doubles the operating time. The Diver Mag's adjustable buoyancy allows the operator to make it neutrally buoyant in salt or fresh water. For more information request a technical data sheet at www.jwfishers.com . * *To request a catalog on JW Fishers complete line of underwater search equipment go to www.jwfishers.com or send email to info at jwfishers.com .* *JW Fishers Mfg. Inc. 1953 County Street East Taunton, MA 02718 USA PH: (800) 822-4744 <%28800%29%20822-4744>, (508) 822-7330 <%28508%29%20822-7330> FAX: (508) 880-8949 <%28508%29%20880-8949> EMAIL: info at jwfishers.com WEB: www.jwfishers.com * *You are receiving our emails because you opted in at our website, are a current customer, or have expressed an interest in receiving our occasional communications. You can opt out at any time by clicking "unsubscribe" at the bottom of this email.* unsubscribe from this list | update subscription preferences This email was sent to psub101 at indy.rr.com *why did I get this?* unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences JW Fishers Mfg. Inc. ? 1953 County Street ? E. Taunton, MA 02718 ? USA [image: Email Marketing Powered by MailChimp] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 02:39:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 08:39:41 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?iso-8859-1?q?She=B4s_in_the_water?= Message-ID: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> We have made about ten successful dives this week with Anders. Still some minor stuff to be fixed but we are on track now, a very nice sub to dive. This picture was taken yesterday. Cheers Lasse [cid:2199C300-D184-477E-83C7-7CA4834B914A] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: malen.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 148272 bytes Desc: malen.jpg URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 05:04:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 10:04:52 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?She=C2=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: Hi Lasse, Congratulations! Looks great. Do you have any more pictures of your boat? Im really interested as this is the type of boat I am considering for my next project. Whereabouts are you? By the looks of the photograph, you had aircraft support as well! Kind Regards James On 11 July 2014 07:39, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > We have made about ten successful dives this week with Anders. > Still some minor stuff to be fixed but we are on track now, a very nice > sub to dive. > This picture was taken yesterday. > > Cheers Lasse > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: malen.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 148272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 08:27:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 08:27:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?She=C2=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: Congrats! Would also like to see more photos : ) On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 2:39 AM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > We have made about ten successful dives this week with Anders. > Still some minor stuff to be fixed but we are on track now, a very nice > sub to dive. > This picture was taken yesterday. > > Cheers Lasse > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: malen.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 148272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 08:28:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 05:28:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?iso-8859-1?q?She=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: References: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1405081738.83130.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> That is way to cool, love it, well done.? Hank On Friday, July 11, 2014 5:05:19 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Lasse, Congratulations!? Looks great.? Do you have any more pictures of your boat?? Im really interested as this is the type of boat I am considering for my next project. Whereabouts are you? By the looks of the photograph, you had aircraft support as well! Kind Regards James On 11 July 2014 07:39, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: We have made about ten successful dives this week with Anders. >Still some minor ?stuff to be fixed but we are on track now, a very nice sub to dive. >This picture was taken yesterday. > > >Cheers Lasse > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: malen.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 148272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 08:33:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 07:33:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?iso-8859-1?q?She=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1C906769142C41C58959A4BA830FD390@snyder> AWESOME!!! -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:40 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] She?s in the water We have made about ten successful dives this week with Anders. Still some minor stuff to be fixed but we are on track now, a very nice sub to dive. This picture was taken yesterday. Cheers Lasse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: malen.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 148272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 08:40:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 12:40:04 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?windows-1252?q?She=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <575435522-1405082402-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1092451300-@b12.c7.bise6.blackberry> Lasse: Congratulations on the successful ops. What's the profile? How long did it take to build? John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles Sender: Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 08:39:41 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] She?s in the water _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 14:10:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:10:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thru Hull Message-ID: <20140711111045.19208BCA@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 21:07:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 21:07:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thru Hull In-Reply-To: <20140711111045.19208BCA@m0005297.ppops.net> References: <20140711111045.19208BCA@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <53C08A52.1000603@psubs.org> Brian, According to steel vessel rules Part 4, Chapter 4, 1) assuming an 8 inch or larger diameter cylinder 2) any opening 2 inches or less in diameter does not require reinforcement So for a 1/2 inch diameter valve you can cut a hole in the pressure shell and weld the valve in directly. If you want to put the valve through the stainless round stock for some reason, the thickness of the stainless doesn't matter as long as it is at least equal to the thickness of the hull. Jon On 7/11/2014 2:10 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > Have a question on thru hull fittings . Is there a > minimum thickness that they need to be? Say if I had a 1/2" shaft > going thru stainless round stock of 1 1/2" for a external valve, how > much thicker that the hull does that need to be? > Is this where the 100% replacement material rule of thumb come in? > > Thanks, > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 11 21:12:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 21:12:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Documents - What's up? Message-ID: <53C08B89.1080207@psubs.org> I've noticed that I am unable to get to any ABS documents that use to be available free. Anyone know if ABS is requiring membership to access these docs now or otherwise charging to get access to them? Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 12 23:16:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 15:16:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?iso-8859-1?q?She=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <53c1fa2c.e781460a.683d.0b4a@mx.google.com> Hi Lasse, Congratulations we want to see more! Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 11 July 2014 6:40 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] She?s in the water We have made about ten successful dives this week with Anders. Still some minor stuff to be fixed but we are on track now, a very nice sub to dive. This picture was taken yesterday. Cheers Lasse __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10079 (20140711) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 148272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 14 08:47:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:47:17 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?iso-8859-1?q?She=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: Gratulerer Lasse! I wish you many happy dives with your sub. The picture confirms that Scandinavia is one of the best places for Psubbing ;-) Regards, Emile van Essen _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 11 juli 2014 8:40 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] She?s in the water We have made about ten successful dives this week with Anders. Still some minor stuff to be fixed but we are on track now, a very nice sub to dive. This picture was taken yesterday. Cheers Lasse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 148272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 15 06:10:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 11:10:49 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wheels. Message-ID: Hi All, Had an irritating problem at the weekend. I was just modifying the side thruster bumpers so I can spin the motors all the way around. I turned one of the motors and it jammed solid in the through hull. I ended up having to thump it out which scratched all the inside of the bore. Spent the rest of the weekend polishing it up and putting it back together. Its fixed now but I don't know why it jammed. I think its probably just such a tight fit, the slightest little scratch or nick inside just jammed it solid. Anyway, I thought id share a pic of my new wheels, which I didn't have time to fit due to the motor problem. Will fit and test next weekend. Not sure if they are going to work. ? Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wheels.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 163919 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 15 10:02:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 10:02:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wheels. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53C53463.6080505@psubs.org> Same thing happened to me with the port forward thruster on the K600. See picture here... http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels//1320788990/photos/1331771748/640/1323717221.jpg The motor was rotating fine when I picked up the submarine, and for weeks afterwards. When I started stripping the sub I discovered it had frozen in place. I could only turn it about 1/8 turn back and forth using a crowbar. I had to pound it out from inside the sub using a sledge hammer and even that took a couple of hours. In my case, I am not reusing the original motors and will be sealing the thru-hull so the score marks don't matter. How much weight are each of those wheels rated for? Jon On 7/15/2014 6:10 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > Had an irritating problem at the weekend. I was just modifying the > side thruster bumpers so I can spin the motors all the way around. I > turned one of the motors and it jammed solid in the through hull. I > ended up having to thump it out which scratched all the inside of the > bore. Spent the rest of the weekend polishing it up and putting it > back together. Its fixed now but I don't know why it jammed. I think > its probably just such a tight fit, the slightest little scratch or > nick inside just jammed it solid. > Anyway, I thought id share a pic of my new wheels, which I didn't have > time to fit due to the motor problem. Will fit and test next > weekend. Not sure if they are going to work. > > Kind Regards > James > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 163919 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 15 18:14:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:14:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Message-ID: <1405462494.13918.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hello all, I need to find an O2 medical regulator that feeds O2 slow enough for one occupant in my sub.? The regulator that came with Gamma is to hard to slow down for one occupant.? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 15 20:19:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 17:19:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test Message-ID: <1405469989.67801.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am not sure if my e mails are getting out. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 15 22:06:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:06:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test In-Reply-To: <1405469989.67801.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405469989.67801.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53C5DE0C.8030206@psubs.org> Looks like the server has some mail problems. On 7/15/2014 8:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I am not sure if my e mails are getting out. > Hank > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 15 23:06:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:06:20 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] TEST In-Reply-To: <1405469989.67801.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405469989.67801.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53C5EC2C.3050001@psubs.org> TEST From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 16 08:37:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 08:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Illness Message-ID: <50d67.46ef7274.40f7cbf6@aol.com> Guys, I've been really sick since Saturday. It might be a few more days before I respond to any emails. Thanks, Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 16 15:55:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 12:55:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Message-ID: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 16 17:27:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:27:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?iso-8859-1?q?She=B4s_in_the_water?= In-Reply-To: <575435522-1405082402-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1092451300-@b12.c7.bise6.blackberry> References: <28D0BC92-FA78-4073-8520-6FCDBCB43F9F@upplevelsepresent.se> <575435522-1405082402-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1092451300-@b12.c7.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <1405546053.18309.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Test, is there anyone out there? Hank On Friday, July 11, 2014 8:40:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Lasse: Congratulations on the successful ops. What's the profile? How long did it take to build? John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles Sender: Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 08:39:41 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] She?s in the water _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 06:17:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:17:38 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub Activity? Message-ID: Test. I haven't had a psubs message since 11th July. Is it just all quiet on the sub front? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 10:00:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:00:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub Activity? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53C7D6E2.9040907@psubs.org> James, respond if you get this message...we are having email problems with the server. Jon On 7/17/2014 6:17 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Test. I haven't had a psubs message since 11th July. Is it just all > quiet on the sub front? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 10:26:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:26:53 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Someone Please Reply Message-ID: Ok, there must be something wrong with my email. Im not getting anything on the message lists. Can someone please respond to me offlist which is jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 10:43:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 07:43:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub Activity? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1405608237.7446.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Jon, I got the message. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:29 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Test.? I haven't had a psubs message since 11th July.? Is it just all quiet on the sub front? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 10:45:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Illness Message-ID: <82b45.2c8299e8.40f93ba2@aol.com> Guys, I've been really sick since Saturday, July 12th. It might be a few more days before I respond to any emails. Thanks, Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 10:47:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:47:07 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub Activity? In-Reply-To: <53C7D6E2.9040907@psubs.org> References: <53C7D6E2.9040907@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi jon. I got this one. Also I got a load of previous messages that looked like they had stacked up. thanks James On 17 July 2014 15:00, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, respond if you get this message...we are having email problems with > the server. > > Jon > > > > On 7/17/2014 6:17 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Test. I haven't had a psubs message since 11th July. Is it just all > quiet on the sub front? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 11:23:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 08:23:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Message-ID: <20140717082338.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5cd5078760.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 11:30:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 08:30:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 11:34:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:34:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues In-Reply-To: <44a49.4001f3d9.40f7ddb7@aol.com> References: <44a49.4001f3d9.40f7ddb7@aol.com> Message-ID: <53C7ED1C.1040300@psubs.org> PSUBBERS, we're having a big problem with email which appears to be stemming from our server provider. I know a bunch of mail was just delivered which may indicate the issue has been resolved but I won't know for sure for a little longer. It is getting difficult for groups like ours to continue with email because it appears as spam to many message filters now in place throughout the internet, especially yahoo, google, aol, Hotmail, and other large providers. A few months ago our yahoo users stopped getting mail because of the insane and highly restrictive filtering that yahoo uses for its servers. We countered that by removing the real email address of the person sending the message and replacing it with a generic address "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" but that appears to have triggered the latest "spam" filter and cut off outgoing email completely. I think it is time we move to a web based discussion forum so we can avoid these email problems altogether. I know some of you are highly resistant to this but I'm not sure we have a choice anymore. Spam filtering has become so specialized that it takes an inordinate amount of time to determine if the problem is with the server, the provider, or some spam filter on the internet. In the meantime, I'm working on the email delivery issue. Jon PSUBS.ORG From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 11:59:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 16:59:58 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, Reading this, do you have any details of your OTS radial filter that Cliff mentions? Thanks James On 17 July 2014 16:30, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank > > On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air > monitoring and Oxygen Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing > with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig > O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip. In the AMOC module > is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This > regulator reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure downstream > of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM. The porting > on this regulator is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of > this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from > Porter. The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set from > 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max pressure on the O2 > controller is 25 psig. This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog > output signal of the O2 SLPM flow rate. > > Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list. I have > been very happy with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 > and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this > controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%. ABS regulations requires > that the O2 be held with in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that > it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for > O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around > this controller so that if both main and back up power are lost, the pilot > can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. > > The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is scrubbing > the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP. I found > that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin > ranging from 0-7000 ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter > arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough. > At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the > scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS > radial filter that is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of > scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much > better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of > the time it being 1000-1500 ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 > concentration below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better is > the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb > and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. > > Long answer to short question. > > > Cliff > > > > > > On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is > there something better? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 12:25:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 09:25:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405614347.49030.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank The scrubber I use looks like http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Sun-Charcoal-Filter-12-Inch/dp/B00CALYSZ0 the unit? has an overall diameter of 6" and 12" tall with a flange size of 4".? I used epoxy to secure the inside screen to the base.? To fill, just take the top off, dump the old Sodasorb HP and fill with new absorbent.? For one person, my filter last about 8 hours. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Reading this, do you have any details of your OTS radial filter that Cliff mentions? Thanks James On 17 July 2014 16:30, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank > > >On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. > > >Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. > > >The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. > > >Long answer to short question. > > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > >On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 12:44:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:44:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues In-Reply-To: <53C7ED1C.1040300@psubs.org> References: <44a49.4001f3d9.40f7ddb7@aol.com> <53C7ED1C.1040300@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon, thanks for all the work. Change is hard but I am supportive of the move. Steve On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > PSUBBERS, we're having a big problem with email which appears to be > stemming from our server provider. I know a bunch of mail was just > delivered which may indicate the issue has been resolved but I won't know > for sure for a little longer. > > It is getting difficult for groups like ours to continue with email > because it appears as spam to many message filters now in place throughout > the internet, especially yahoo, google, aol, Hotmail, and other large > providers. A few months ago our yahoo users stopped getting mail because > of the insane and highly restrictive filtering that yahoo uses for its > servers. We countered that by removing the real email address of the > person sending the message and replacing it with a generic address " > personal_submersibles at psubs.org" but that appears to have triggered the > latest "spam" filter and cut off outgoing email completely. > > I think it is time we move to a web based discussion forum so we can avoid > these email problems altogether. I know some of you are highly resistant > to this but I'm not sure we have a choice anymore. Spam filtering has > become so specialized that it takes an inordinate amount of time to > determine if the problem is with the server, the provider, or some spam > filter on the internet. > > In the meantime, I'm working on the email delivery issue. > > Jon > PSUBS.ORG > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 14:50:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:50:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405614347.49030.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405614347.49030.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405623017.73190.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, What is an axial flow filter?? I am using an inspiration re-breather scrubber.? I was having trouble with the CO2 level (3500ppm)?and assumed it was the absorbent.? I realized since that I changed the fan to 24V from the original 12V just to keep things simple in the eclectic panel. The fan may be weaker.? I have ordered 4 Cartridge filters that fit my re-breather scrubber, jut to try it out. You O2 system sounds like the way to go. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:26:09 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank The scrubber I use looks like http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Sun-Charcoal-Filter-12-Inch/dp/B00CALYSZ0 the unit? has an overall diameter of 6" and 12" tall with a flange size of 4".? I used epoxy to secure the inside screen to the base.? To fill, just take the top off, dump the old Sodasorb HP and fill with new absorbent.? For one person, my filter last about 8 hours. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Reading this, do you have any details of your OTS radial filter that Cliff mentions? Thanks James On 17 July 2014 16:30, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank > > >On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. > > >Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. > > >The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. > > >Long answer to short question. > > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > >On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 14:56:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:56:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405623017.73190.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405614347.49030.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405623017.73190.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405623408.89362.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, I tried one of those and found the adjustment was not fine enough and needed constant fiddling.? Mind you that was in my super small sub with a small volume.? More reason for a bells add system.? Do you have enough flow options with it or do you fiddle with it a lot. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:50:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, What is an axial flow filter?? I am using an inspiration re-breather scrubber.? I was having trouble with the CO2 level (3500ppm)?and assumed it was the absorbent.? I realized since that I changed the fan to 24V from the original 12V just to keep things simple in the eclectic panel. The fan may be weaker.? I have ordered 4 Cartridge filters that fit my re-breather scrubber, jut to try it out. You O2 system sounds like the way to go. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:26:09 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank The scrubber I use looks like http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Sun-Charcoal-Filter-12-Inch/dp/B00CALYSZ0 the unit? has an overall diameter of 6" and 12" tall with a flange size of 4".? I used epoxy to secure the inside screen to the base.? To fill, just take the top off, dump the old Sodasorb HP and fill with new absorbent.? For one person, my filter last about 8 hours. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Reading this, do you have any details of your OTS radial filter that Cliff mentions? Thanks James On 17 July 2014 16:30, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank > > >On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. > > >Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. > > >The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. > > >Long answer to short question. > > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > >On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 15:12:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:12:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Message-ID: <20140717121226.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.76b5572865.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 15:14:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 07:14:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues In-Reply-To: <53C7ED1C.1040300@psubs.org> References: <44a49.4001f3d9.40f7ddb7@aol.com> <53C7ED1C.1040300@psubs.org> Message-ID: <49934909-414B-4CF3-844E-2EC1E708314A@yahoo.com> Jon, can we do something like face book where we get email notification of any events. Or just run a Facebook page for this discussion. I haven't had any mail for ages either. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/07/2014, at 3:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > PSUBBERS, we're having a big problem with email which appears to be stemming from our server provider. I know a bunch of mail was just delivered which may indicate the issue has been resolved but I won't know for sure for a little longer. > > It is getting difficult for groups like ours to continue with email because it appears as spam to many message filters now in place throughout the internet, especially yahoo, google, aol, Hotmail, and other large providers. A few months ago our yahoo users stopped getting mail because of the insane and highly restrictive filtering that yahoo uses for its servers. We countered that by removing the real email address of the person sending the message and replacing it with a generic address "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" but that appears to have triggered the latest "spam" filter and cut off outgoing email completely. > > I think it is time we move to a web based discussion forum so we can avoid these email problems altogether. I know some of you are highly resistant to this but I'm not sure we have a choice anymore. Spam filtering has become so specialized that it takes an inordinate amount of time to determine if the problem is with the server, the provider, or some spam filter on the internet. > > In the meantime, I'm working on the email delivery issue. > > Jon > PSUBS.ORG > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 15:34:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:34:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <20140717121226.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.76b5572865.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20140717121226.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.76b5572865.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1405625654.6106.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Thanks' I think mine might have been buggered, I just ordered one. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:12:26 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Mine works great.?My plan was to put it in and dive just to get her in the water and then later go with a system like Cliff, but after?using it for a while I am sticking with it. It works great. I check the cabin pressure often (as you should for safety) and probably only adjust it every 10 -15 minutes max. Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >Date: Thu, July 17, 2014 11:56 am >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > >Scott, >I tried one of those and found the adjustment was not fine enough and needed constant fiddling.? Mind you that was in my super small sub with a small volume.? More reason for a bells add system.? >Do you have enough flow options with it or do you fiddle with it a lot. >Hank > > > >On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:50:38 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Cliff, >What is an axial flow filter?? I am using an inspiration re-breather scrubber.? I was having trouble with the CO2 level (3500ppm)?and assumed it was the absorbent.? I realized since that I changed the fan to 24V from the original 12V just to keep things simple in the eclectic panel. The fan may be weaker.? I have ordered 4 Cartridge filters that fit my re-breather scrubber, jut to try it out. >You O2 system sounds like the way to go. >Hank > > > >On Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:26:09 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > >Hank > > >The scrubber I use looks like http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Sun-Charcoal-Filter-12-Inch/dp/B00CALYSZ0 > > >the unit? has an overall diameter of 6" and 12" tall with a flange size of 4".? >I used epoxy to secure the inside screen to the base.? To fill, just take the top off, dump the old Sodasorb HP and fill with new absorbent.? For one person, my filter last about 8 hours. > >Cliff > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > >On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Alec, >Reading this, do you have any details of your OTS radial filter that Cliff mentions? >Thanks >James > > > >On 17 July 2014 16:30, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >>Hank >> >> >>On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. >> >> >>Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. >> >> >>The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. >> >> >>Long answer to short question. >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Hi All, >>I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >>Hank >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >________________________________ > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 15:39:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 07:39:30 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I've pasted this one before. emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLtTOmvTqrk-FITTINGS_c63.htm They are in the North West. They have a great selection of oxygen equipment, tanks & fittings on their site. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/07/2014, at 7:55 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is there something better? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 15:42:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 07:42:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Illness In-Reply-To: <82b45.2c8299e8.40f93ba2@aol.com> References: <82b45.2c8299e8.40f93ba2@aol.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hear that Jim, hope you improve quickly. Am looking forward to conference. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/07/2014, at 2:45 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Guys, > I've been really sick since Saturday, July 12th. It might be a few more days before I respond to any emails. > Thanks, > Jim > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 16:04:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:04:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405627475.93725.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> If you think of the filter as a cylinder,?for an?axial flow filter, the flow of the air through the filter is along the axis of the cylinder.? Flow comes in one?end and?out the other.??For radial flow filter, the flow radiates out perpendicular to the axis of the cylinder and there is a hollow inner space.? The inlet or exit is connected to this inner space.? See picture http://www.kleenwater.com/page.html?id=31 Weak fans are a problem for scrubbers from my experience.? One other point, I found that box style blower was better than axial fan as then push less flow but can generate higher head which is needed to push the air through the absorbent. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I've pasted this one before. emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLtTOmvTqrk-FITTINGS_c63.htm They are in the North West. They have a great selection of oxygen equipment, tanks & fittings on their site. Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/07/2014, at 7:55 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 16:44:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:44:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405627475.93725.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405627475.93725.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405629847.40191.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, thanks' got it.? Just for interest, Gamma's original scrubber has a hug squirrel cage?fan,?like from a?car heater.? The only problem is it is very noisy.? I was under the impression the air had to move slowly through the absorbent. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:04:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you think of the filter as a cylinder,?for an?axial flow filter, the flow of the air through the filter is along the axis of the cylinder.? Flow comes in one?end and?out the other.??For radial flow filter, the flow radiates out perpendicular to the axis of the cylinder and there is a hollow inner space.? The inlet or exit is connected to this inner space.? See picture http://www.kleenwater.com/page.html?id=31 Weak fans are a problem for scrubbers from my experience.? One other point, I found that box style blower was better than axial fan as then push less flow but can generate higher head which is needed to push the air through the absorbent. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I've pasted this one before. emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLtTOmvTqrk-FITTINGS_c63.htm They are in the North West. They have a great selection of oxygen equipment, tanks & fittings on their site. Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/07/2014, at 7:55 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 16:58:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:58:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405629847.40191.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405627475.93725.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405629847.40191.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405630713.27128.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Slow but not to slow.?You need to be able to pull the?cabin volume through??the scrubber in a reasonable amount of time.? I would look for another squirrel cage blower but a smaller new one that is quite. The issue with?a large? blower is that it can pull to much current.? ABS requires that the life support system has to function for 72 hours on the emergency battery bank only.? If the current is to high, you end up with good scrubbing but don't have the battery capacity to last the 72 hours.? If the blower is to small, you solve the current problem but you can't meet the 5000 ppm concentration constraint. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, thanks' got it.? Just for interest, Gamma's original scrubber has a hug squirrel cage?fan,?like from a?car heater.? The only problem is it is very noisy.? I was under the impression the air had to move slowly through the absorbent. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:04:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you think of the filter as a cylinder,?for an?axial flow filter, the flow of the air through the filter is along the axis of the cylinder.? Flow comes in one?end and?out the other.??For radial flow filter, the flow radiates out perpendicular to the axis of the cylinder and there is a hollow inner space.? The inlet or exit is connected to this inner space.? See picture http://www.kleenwater.com/page.html?id=31 Weak fans are a problem for scrubbers from my experience.? One other point, I found that box style blower was better than axial fan as then push less flow but can generate higher head which is needed to push the air through the absorbent. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I've pasted this one before. emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLtTOmvTqrk-FITTINGS_c63.htm They are in the North West. They have a great selection of oxygen equipment, tanks & fittings on their site. Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/07/2014, at 7:55 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 17:32:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:32:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, There really isn't a brand and part number, because its something I got off eBay that was I think made by some enterprising individual. You will find them there in a variety of sizes. Caution, they won't work quite off the shelf. The value was in the two spun ends, which would be relatively hard to make. The cylinders have holes that are way too big for CO2 absorbent. I lined them with much finer mesh, stitching the two materials together with fine wire. This is a much more sophisticated solution: http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/printedscrubber/ Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:59 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, > Reading this, do you have any details of your OTS radial filter that Cliff > mentions? > Thanks > James > > > On 17 July 2014 16:30, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hank >> >> On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air >> monitoring and Oxygen Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing >> with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig >> O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip. In the AMOC module >> is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This >> regulator reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure downstream >> of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM. The porting >> on this regulator is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of >> this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from >> Porter. The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set from >> 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max pressure on the O2 >> controller is 25 psig. This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog >> output signal of the O2 SLPM flow rate. >> >> Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list. I have >> been very happy with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 >> and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this >> controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%. ABS regulations requires >> that the O2 be held with in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that >> it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for >> O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around >> this controller so that if both main and back up power are lost, the pilot >> can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. >> >> The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is scrubbing >> the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP. I found >> that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin >> ranging from 0-7000 ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter >> arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough. >> At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the >> scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS >> radial filter that is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of >> scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much >> better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of >> the time it being 1000-1500 ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 >> concentration below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better is >> the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb >> and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. >> >> Long answer to short question. >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, >> I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is >> there something better? >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 17:42:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 17:42:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues In-Reply-To: <49934909-414B-4CF3-844E-2EC1E708314A@yahoo.com> References: <44a49.4001f3d9.40f7ddb7@aol.com> <53C7ED1C.1040300@psubs.org> <49934909-414B-4CF3-844E-2EC1E708314A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53C8434F.8010203@psubs.org> I believe the software does notify when submission events occur. I've got to rebuild it to confirm. I'm also open to facebook but the problem there is whether everyone wants an account on a social media site like that (I don't, for example) and if facebook ever dives like myspace did, then we have the problem of all our data on a foreign server that may be difficult to maintain or extract from. Jon On 7/17/2014 3:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > can we do something like face book where we get email notification of any events. Or just run a Facebook page for this discussion. > I haven't had any mail for ages either. > Alan > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 17:44:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 14:44:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues Message-ID: <20140717144406.1936944A@m0048139.ppops.net> But it's so nostalgic ! --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:34:52 -0400 PSUBBERS, we're having a big problem with email which appears to be stemming from our server provider. I know a bunch of mail was just delivered which may indicate the issue has been resolved but I won't know for sure for a little longer. It is getting difficult for groups like ours to continue with email because it appears as spam to many message filters now in place throughout the internet, especially yahoo, google, aol, Hotmail, and other large providers. A few months ago our yahoo users stopped getting mail because of the insane and highly restrictive filtering that yahoo uses for its servers. We countered that by removing the real email address of the person sending the message and replacing it with a generic address "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" but that appears to have triggered the latest "spam" filter and cut off outgoing email completely. I think it is time we move to a web based discussion forum so we can avoid these email problems altogether. I know some of you are highly resistant to this but I'm not sure we have a choice anymore. Spam filtering has become so specialized that it takes an inordinate amount of time to determine if the problem is with the server, the provider, or some spam filter on the internet. In the meantime, I'm working on the email delivery issue. Jon PSUBS.ORG _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 17:47:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 14:47:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405633626.78936.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, Thanks' I just? did an experiment based on Cliff's comments.? I doubled the fans on my scrubber.? I put two together and did a test.? With one fan the output is 48ppm CO2 with two fans the output is 18ppm CO2. Clearly when I changed fans, it lost efficiency.? I want to keep my scrubber because it can take granular absorbent or cartridges.? I will test both for a cost comparison. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:33:10 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, There really isn't a brand and part number, because its something I got off eBay that was I think made by some enterprising individual. You will find them there in a variety of sizes. Caution, they won't work quite off the shelf. The value was in the two spun ends, which would be relatively hard to make. The cylinders have holes that are way too big for CO2 absorbent. I lined them with much finer mesh, stitching the two materials together with fine wire. This is a much more sophisticated solution:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/printedscrubber/ Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:59 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, >Reading this, do you have any details of your OTS radial filter that Cliff mentions? >Thanks >James > > > >On 17 July 2014 16:30, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hank >> >> >>On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. >> >> >>Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. >> >> >>The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. >> >> >>Long answer to short question. >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Hi All, >>I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >>Hank >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 18:44:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:44:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405630713.27128.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405627475.93725.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405629847.40191.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405630713.27128.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405637081.9335.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, another factor in the equation is the grade of C02 absorbent. Here is an article by Molecular products warning rebreather divers not to use medical grade absorbant. http://www.molecularproducts.com/pdf/Use%20of%20medical%20grade%20Sofnolime%20in%20Diving%20Applications%20Jan%202010.pdf Molecular products who manufacture sofnolime, have a computer program for calculating the amount of flow you need to maintain C02 within certain levels, based on the internal volume of your hull.? I contacted them ages ago with questions about their product & they seemed to enjoy using their computer & doing the calculations. http://www.molecularproducts.com/us/ My link recently to EMT medical didn't work ( hate copying links on my Ipad) so here it is again. http://www.emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c63.htm ? Are you taking the R300 up to Bellingham Cliff? Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Slow but not to slow.?You need to be able to pull the?cabin volume through??the scrubber in a reasonable amount of time.? I would look for another squirrel cage blower but a smaller new one that is quite. The issue with?a large? blower is that it can pull to much current.? ABS requires that the life support system has to function for 72 hours on the emergency battery bank only.? If the current is to high, you end up with good scrubbing but don't have the battery capacity to last the 72 hours.? If the blower is to small, you solve the current problem but you can't meet the 5000 ppm concentration constraint. ? Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, thanks' got it.? Just for interest, Gamma's original scrubber has a hug squirrel cage?fan,?like from a?car heater.? The only problem is it is very noisy.? I was under the impression the air had to move slowly through the absorbent. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:04:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you think of the filter as a cylinder,?for an?axial flow filter, the flow of the air through the filter is along the axis of the cylinder.? Flow comes in one?end and?out the other.??For radial flow filter, the flow radiates out perpendicular to the axis of the cylinder and there is a hollow inner space.? The inlet or exit is connected to this inner space.? See picture http://www.kleenwater.com/page.html?id=31 Weak fans are a problem for scrubbers from my experience.? One other point, I found that box style blower was better than axial fan as then push less flow but can generate higher head which is needed to push the air through the absorbent. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I've pasted this one before. emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLtTOmvTqrk-FITTINGS_c63.htm They are in the North West. They have a great selection of oxygen equipment, tanks & fittings on their site. Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/07/2014, at 7:55 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 19:12:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 16:12:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405637081.9335.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405540522.57574.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405627475.93725.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405629847.40191.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405630713.27128.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405637081.9335.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405638773.60029.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Good points Alan.? I concur that grade as well as being fit for service are important.? All of my experience has been with one absorbent, SodaSorb HP.? This is the same absorbent that Phil has used for years. As to taking my boat to this years PSUB convention, the answer is no unfortunately.? Nor will I be able to attend.? I though I was going to be able to make it and sent my registration fee into Jon but and had to back out because of a consulting job that has come up. Take lots of pictures?in Phil's toy shop! Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, another factor in the equation is the grade of C02 absorbent. Here is an article by Molecular products warning rebreather divers not to use medical grade absorbant. http://www.molecularproducts.com/pdf/Use%20of%20medical%20grade%20Sofnolime%20in%20Diving%20Applications%20Jan%202010.pdf Molecular products who manufacture sofnolime, have a computer program for calculating the amount of flow you need to maintain C02 within certain levels, based on the internal volume of your hull.? I contacted them ages ago with questions about their product & they seemed to enjoy using their computer & doing the calculations. http://www.molecularproducts.com/us/ My link recently to EMT medical didn't work ( hate copying links on my Ipad) so here it is again. http://www.emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c63.htm ? Are you taking the R300 up to Bellingham Cliff? Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Slow but not to slow.?You need to be able to pull the?cabin volume through??the scrubber in a reasonable amount of time.? I would look for another squirrel cage blower but a smaller new one that is quite. The issue with?a large? blower is that it can pull to much current.? ABS requires that the life support system has to function for 72 hours on the emergency battery bank only.? If the current is to high, you end up with good scrubbing but don't have the battery capacity to last the 72 hours.? If the blower is to small, you solve the current problem but you can't meet the 5000 ppm concentration constraint. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 3:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, thanks' got it.? Just for interest, Gamma's original scrubber has a hug squirrel cage?fan,?like from a?car heater.? The only problem is it is very noisy.? I was under the impression the air had to move slowly through the absorbent. Hank On Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:04:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you think of the filter as a cylinder,?for an?axial flow filter, the flow of the air through the filter is along the axis of the cylinder.? Flow comes in one?end and?out the other.??For radial flow filter, the flow radiates out perpendicular to the axis of the cylinder and there is a hollow inner space.? The inlet or exit is connected to this inner space.? See picture http://www.kleenwater.com/page.html?id=31 Weak fans are a problem for scrubbers from my experience.? One other point, I found that box style blower was better than axial fan as then push less flow but can generate higher head which is needed to push the air through the absorbent. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:40 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I've pasted this one before. emtmedicalco.com/REGULATORS-http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLtTOmvTqrk-FITTINGS_c63.htm They are in the North West. They have a great selection of oxygen equipment, tanks & fittings on their site. Alan Sent from my iPad On 17/07/2014, at 7:55 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, >I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 21:05:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 18:05:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] amplify radio Message-ID: <1405645508.87772.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, When I use my UQC radio's they are very hard to hear.? The transmissions are very clear but quiet.? How can I amplify the sound? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 21:39:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues Message-ID: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> I'm not on Facebook and don't intend to go on it as long as I can avoid it. Jim In a message dated 7/17/2014 4:43:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: I believe the software does notify when submission events occur. I've got to rebuild it to confirm. I'm also open to facebook but the problem there is whether everyone wants an account on a social media site like that (I don't, for example) and if facebook ever dives like myspace did, then we have the problem of all our data on a foreign server that may be difficult to maintain or extract from. Jon On 7/17/2014 3:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > can we do something like face book where we get email notification of any events. Or just run a Facebook page for this discussion. > I haven't had any mail for ages either. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 22:27:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 10:27:44 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues In-Reply-To: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> Message-ID: <53C88620.1000202@archivale.com> Yahoo is clearly trying to shed Groups, and has been for some time. If you don't believe me, try finding Groups from the main Yahoo web page. You can, but it will take awhile. So leaving Yahoo is a no-brainer - if we don't leave it, it will eventually leave us. But Yahoo is not the only email group host, and I for one would love to see suggestions for transferring to another host - one which actually wants to continue as a group host - rather than retreating to a Web-based forum. I know from my experience with other interest groups which migrated to the Web that I was not able to find the time to keep up with this group that way, and I would regret effectively losing access to this group, too. Also, I am the "owner" of some lists on Yahoo myself, and any alternate host suitable for this group would likely be a good destination for migrating "my" groups as well. Best, Marc de Piolenc On 7/18/2014 9:39 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I'm not on Facebook and don't intend to go on it as long as I can avoid it. > Jim > In a message dated 7/17/2014 4:43:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > > I believe the software does notify when submission events occur. I've > got to rebuild it to confirm. I'm also open to facebook but the > problem > there is whether everyone wants an account on a social media site like > that (I don't, for example) and if facebook ever dives like myspace > did, > then we have the problem of all our data on a foreign server that > may be > difficult to maintain or extract from. > > Jon > > > On 7/17/2014 3:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > > can we do something like face book where we get email > notification of any events. Or just run a Facebook page for this > discussion. > > I haven't had any mail for ages either. > > Alan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 17 23:22:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 20:22:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues In-Reply-To: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> Message-ID: <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >>>I'm not on Facebook and don't intend to go on it?as long as I can avoid it. Jim Here is a link to an Amish sect Jim. Thought it might come in handy. http://pittsburgh.about.com/cs/pennsylvania/a/amish_2.htm Alan ________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues I'm not on Facebook and don't intend to go on it?as long as I can avoid it. Jim ? In a message dated 7/17/2014 4:43:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >I believe the software does notify when submission events occur. I've >got to rebuild it to confirm.? I'm also open to facebook but the problem >there is whether everyone wants an account on a social media site like >that (I don't, for example) and if facebook ever dives like myspace did, >then we have the problem of all our data on a foreign server that may be >difficult to maintain or extract from. > >Jon > > >On 7/17/2014 3:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, >> can we do something like face book where we get email notification of any events. Or just run a Facebook page for this discussion. >> I haven't had any mail for ages either. >> Alan >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 18 10:07:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (marie-andree et pierre via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 10:07:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues In-Reply-To: <49934909-414B-4CF3-844E-2EC1E708314A@yahoo.com> References: <44a49.4001f3d9.40f7ddb7@aol.com> <53C7ED1C.1040300@psubs.org> <49934909-414B-4CF3-844E-2EC1E708314A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00c001cfa291$a9d219b0$fd764d10$%carrier@videotron.ca> I think a forum base would be best for this group. I use forum for many thing like Airsoft games, tanks building and such with great success. Welcome to the XXI century! :) Pierre -----Message d'origine----- De?: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] De la part de Alan via Personal_Submersibles Envoy??: 17 juillet 2014 15:14 ??: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Objet?: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] email issues Jon, can we do something like face book where we get email notification of any events. Or just run a Facebook page for this discussion. I haven't had any mail for ages either. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 18/07/2014, at 3:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > PSUBBERS, we're having a big problem with email which appears to be stemming from our server provider. I know a bunch of mail was just delivered which may indicate the issue has been resolved but I won't know for sure for a little longer. > > It is getting difficult for groups like ours to continue with email because it appears as spam to many message filters now in place throughout the internet, especially yahoo, google, aol, Hotmail, and other large providers. A few months ago our yahoo users stopped getting mail because of the insane and highly restrictive filtering that yahoo uses for its servers. We countered that by removing the real email address of the person sending the message and replacing it with a generic address "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" but that appears to have triggered the latest "spam" filter and cut off outgoing email completely. > > I think it is time we move to a web based discussion forum so we can avoid these email problems altogether. I know some of you are highly resistant to this but I'm not sure we have a choice anymore. Spam filtering has become so specialized that it takes an inordinate amount of time to determine if the problem is with the server, the provider, or some spam filter on the internet. > > In the meantime, I'm working on the email delivery issue. > > Jon > PSUBS.ORG > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles --- Ce courrier ?lectronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant parce que la protection avast! Antivirus est active. http://www.avast.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 18 20:04:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 17:04:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. Can anyone confirm this? Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 18 20:05:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 17:05:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 18 20:26:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 20:26:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. Best, Alec On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support > female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the > threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read > 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is > 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest > that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and > minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. > > Can anyone confirm this? > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 18 20:25:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 17:25:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module ?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 18 20:38:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 19:38:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Thanks Cliff Redus > On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. > > Best, > > Alec > > >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >> >> Can anyone confirm this? >> >> Cliff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 19 12:19:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 09:19:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405786758.23749.YahooMailBasic@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Thanks -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/18/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, July 18, 2014, 5:25 PM I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 19 16:01:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:01:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it. I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options. How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range? Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but the range on the one you bought is 0 to 1%. Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300 in Florida. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I use a K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. > > http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module > Has worked flawlessly. > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? > > Thanks Pete > > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > > Hank > On the R300, I have life support > module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen > Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing > with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an > external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 > with a whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure > reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This regulator > reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure > downstream of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum > rate of 15 SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two > 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of > this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ > controller from Porter. > The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set > from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max > pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig. This O2 > controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal of > the O2 SLPM flow rate. > Both these items were purchased on > Ebay at a fraction of list. I have been very happy > with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 > and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens > and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between > 19-22%. ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with > in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that it > automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions > rates for O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle > valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both > main and back up power are lost, the pilot can manually > adjust the O2 rate > into the boat. > The > second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is > scrubbing the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter > with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter did > not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 > ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement > and part of the problem was the blower was not strong > enough. At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec > Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a > show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that > is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of > scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has > worked much better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level > below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 > ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration > below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better > is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop > through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a > stronger blower. > Long > answer to short question. > > Cliff > > > > > > On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi All,I need to find a pediatric > flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is there something > better?Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 19 16:57:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 13:57:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: References: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405803457.25045.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan From a Navy document on CO2 they describe the physiological impact of CO2 in the atmosphere: 2-3%? Shortness of breath deep breathing 5%???? Breathing becomes heavy, sweating, pulse quickens 7.5%? Headaches, dizziness, restlessness, breathlessness, increased heart rate and blood pressure, visual distortion 10%???Impaired hearing, nausea, vomiting, loss of consciousness 30%???Coma, convulsions, death A? 0-30,000 ppm (3%)?or 0-50,000? (5%) sensor is fine but you loss accuracy when the span increases.? These meters are typically +/- 0.5% accuracy based on the span of the meter.? For a 30,000 ppm meter, this gives +/- 150 ppm.? For a 10,000 ppm span, the same 0.5% accuracy meter gives you a +/- 50 ppm accuracy, or three time the resolution of the measurement.? Another reason I like the 10,000 span is for my boat I am trying to stay within the 0-5000 ppm level set by ABS.?Normally this sensor is reading 1000-2000 ppm.? The only time is will run higher is when the CO2 absorbent become saturated and is no longer pulling CO2 out of air.?So if has been 8 plus hours on one scrubber, I start to get a color?change of the absorbent?and I see the CO2 ppm level start to continually increase, I know it is time to change the absorbent.? My PLC touch screen has a plotting feature so I have a screen that shows the CO2 and O2 levels plotted over time.? It is pretty easy to see with the absorbent become saturated. So the short answer is I like the better accuracy? I get over the?range I would expect to see. I am sorry to miss the convention as well.? I was looking forward to hearing about the progress you have made on your new one atmosphere boat. Are you still planning on casting the pressure hull? Next week I will be in your part of the world Australia; not home but close.? No plans to hit New Zealand on this trip.? Though I would like to see how Hugh Fulton is coming along on his QBoat Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it. I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options. How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range? Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but the range on the one you bought is 0 to 1%. Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300 in Florida. Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. > > >http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module >?Has worked flawlessly. > > >Cliff > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > >Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? > >Thanks Pete > >-------------------------------------------- >On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > >Hank >On the R300, I have life support >module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen >Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing >with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an >external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 >with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure >reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? >reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure >downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum >rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two >1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of >this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ >controller from Porter.? >? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set >from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max >pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 >controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of >the O2 SLPM?flow rate. >Both these items were purchased on >Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy >with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 >and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens >and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between >19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with >in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it >automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions >rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle >valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both >main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually >adjust the O2 rate >? into the boat. >The >second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is >scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter >with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did >not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 >ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement >and part of the problem was the blower was not strong >enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec >Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a >show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that >is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of >scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has >worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level >below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 >ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration >below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better >? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop >through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a >stronger blower. >Long >answer to short question. > >Cliff > > > >? > >? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, >hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >? ? > >? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric >flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something >better?Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 19 23:59:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 20:59:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405803457.25045.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405803457.25045.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405828784.83976.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff, The graphs on your plc sound a great idea. Good way to monitor things. With G.L. the accuracy you get on the 0-50,000ppm (5%) unit is fine. They require an accuracy of + or - 0.001 bar CO2 partial pressure. That is 1000ppm. ? ?ABS does say 0.5% by volume limit, but it lets you go up to 1% during a scrubber change over, & 1.5% for emergency life support situations. I like the 0-50,000 unit for peace of mind, in case you did get in an emergency situation & the CO2 level went beyond 10,000ppm. On the pdf for the higher range units it says that the minimum operating pressure is .950 - 40 bar. So I guess you would need to monitor the cabin pressure with alarms to ensure you didn't go below the minimum it functioned at. I couldn't see any pressure operating range specified with your unit. ? ? I'm not sure where I'm at with the aluminum pressure hull idea. Gas bubbles formed in the casting process are hard to control. G.L. doesn't like aluminum as a pressure vessel, & it's more subject to galvanic corrosion than steel. Also if I wanted it hard anodized I would have to do it outside N.Z. as there are no tanks big enough here. There are ASME rules for cast aluminum pressure vessels, but I haven't got hold of them yet. (anyone own them??) Phil made one of his Newt suits out of cast aluminum; so hopefully I can pick his brains on this in August. ?Don't you love the flight down here. Hope you sleep well on planes.? ? ?I caught up with Hugh last week & some of the exostructure was off his Q-sub. When you see it like that you can appreciate the enormous amount of engineering work gone in to it. I think Hugh is well & truly over it with all the problems but it's going to be awesome when he get's it diving. Have a good trip to OZ. Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Alan From a Navy document on CO2 they describe the physiological impact of CO2 in the atmosphere: 2-3%? Shortness of breath deep breathing 5%???? Breathing becomes heavy, sweating, pulse quickens 7.5%? Headaches, dizziness, restlessness, breathlessness, increased heart rate and blood pressure, visual distortion 10%???Impaired hearing, nausea, vomiting, loss of consciousness 30%???Coma, convulsions, death A? 0-30,000 ppm (3%)?or 0-50,000? (5%) sensor is fine but you loss accuracy when the span increases.? These meters are typically +/- 0.5% accuracy based on the span of the meter.? For a 30,000 ppm meter, this gives +/- 150 ppm.? For a 10,000 ppm span, the same 0.5% accuracy meter gives you a +/- 50 ppm accuracy, or three time the resolution of the measurement.? Another reason I like the 10,000 span is for my boat I am trying to stay within the 0-5000 ppm level set by ABS.?Normally this sensor is reading 1000-2000 ppm.? The only time is will run higher is when the CO2 absorbent become saturated and is no longer pulling CO2 out of air.?So if has been 8 plus hours on one scrubber, I start to get a color?change of the absorbent?and I see the CO2 ppm level start to continually increase, I know it is time to change the absorbent.? My PLC touch screen has a plotting feature so I have a screen that shows the CO2 and O2 levels plotted over time.? It is pretty easy to see with the absorbent become saturated. So the short answer is I like the better accuracy? I get over the?range I would expect to see. I am sorry to miss the convention as well.? I was looking forward to hearing about the progress you have made on your new one atmosphere boat. Are you still planning on casting the pressure hull? Next week I will be in your part of the world Australia; not home but close.? No plans to hit New Zealand on this trip.? Though I would like to see how Hugh Fulton is coming along on his QBoat Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it. I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options. How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range? Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but the range on the one you bought is 0 to 1%. Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300 in Florida. Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. > > >http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module >?Has worked flawlessly. > > >Cliff > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > >From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > >Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? > >Thanks Pete > >-------------------------------------------- >On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > >Hank >On the R300, I have life support >module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen >Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing >with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an >external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 >with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure >reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? >reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure >downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum >rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two >1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of >this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ >controller from Porter.? >? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set >from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max >pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 >controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of >the O2 SLPM?flow rate. >Both these items were purchased on >Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy >with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 >and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens >and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between >19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with >in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it >automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions >rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle >valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both >main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually >adjust the O2 rate >? into the boat. >The >second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is >scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter >with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did >not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 >ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement >and part of the problem was the blower was not strong >enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec >Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a >show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that >is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of >scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has >worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level >below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 >ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration >below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better >? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop >through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a >stronger blower. >Long >answer to short question. > >Cliff > > > >? > >? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, >hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >? ? > >? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric >flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something >better?Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 20 09:45:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 06:45:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405828784.83976.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405803457.25045.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405828784.83976.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405863914.36636.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Good point about the ABS?increasing the CO2 limit for scrubber change out and emergency lift support situations.? I still prefer to have higher resolution of the measurement for normal operating conditions so I will stick wit my 1% sensor.? If you install a 5% sensor and find out you are not happy after using it awhile, the nice part about using a PLC is it is easy to change a few rungs of ladder logic and install a different sensor.? Sounds like you are having second thoughts on casting an aluminum hull.? If you went with ABS rule, you would end up having to do a lot of imperial testing of the hull meet their classing rules.? Thy like and understand steel weldments! When I last saw the Q-Sub which was several years ago, it had its exostructure off.? There a lot of systems on the boat.? Added systems means added complexity which means a longer time to sort eve thing out.?But "I agree, when she finally gets commissioned, she will be awesome! Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Hi Cliff, The graphs on your plc sound a great idea. Good way to monitor things. With G.L. the accuracy you get on the 0-50,000ppm (5%) unit is fine. They require an accuracy of + or - 0.001 bar CO2 partial pressure. That is 1000ppm. ? ?ABS does say 0.5% by volume limit, but it lets you go up to 1% during a scrubber change over, & 1.5% for emergency life support situations. I like the 0-50,000 unit for peace of mind, in case you did get in an emergency situation & the CO2 level went beyond 10,000ppm. On the pdf for the higher range units it says that the minimum operating pressure is .950 - 40 bar. So I guess you would need to monitor the cabin pressure with alarms to ensure you didn't go below the minimum it functioned at. I couldn't see any pressure operating range specified with your unit. ? ? I'm not sure where I'm at with the aluminum pressure hull idea. Gas bubbles formed in the casting process are hard to control. G.L. doesn't like aluminum as a pressure vessel, & it's more subject to galvanic corrosion than steel. Also if I wanted it hard anodized I would have to do it outside N.Z. as there are no tanks big enough here. There are ASME rules for cast aluminum pressure vessels, but I haven't got hold of them yet. (anyone own them??) Phil made one of his Newt suits out of cast aluminum; so hopefully I can pick his brains on this in August. ?Don't you love the flight down here. Hope you sleep well on planes.? ? ?I caught up with Hugh last week & some of the exostructure was off his Q-sub. When you see it like that you can appreciate the enormous amount of engineering work gone in to it. I think Hugh is well & truly over it with all the problems but it's going to be awesome when he get's it diving. Have a good trip to OZ. Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Alan From a Navy document on CO2 they describe the physiological impact of CO2 in the atmosphere: 2-3%? Shortness of breath deep breathing 5%???? Breathing becomes heavy, sweating, pulse quickens 7.5%? Headaches, dizziness, restlessness, breathlessness, increased heart rate and blood pressure, visual distortion 10%???Impaired hearing, nausea, vomiting, loss of consciousness 30%???Coma, convulsions, death A? 0-30,000 ppm (3%)?or 0-50,000? (5%) sensor is fine but you loss accuracy when the span increases.? These meters are typically +/- 0.5% accuracy based on the span of the meter.? For a 30,000 ppm meter, this gives +/- 150 ppm.? For a 10,000 ppm span, the same 0.5% accuracy meter gives you a +/- 50 ppm accuracy, or three time the resolution of the measurement.? Another reason I like the 10,000 span is for my boat I am trying to stay within the 0-5000 ppm level set by ABS.?Normally this sensor is reading 1000-2000 ppm.? The only time is will run higher is when the CO2 absorbent become saturated and is no longer pulling CO2 out of air.?So if has been 8 plus hours on one scrubber, I start to get a color?change of the absorbent?and I see the CO2 ppm level start to continually increase, I know it is time to change the absorbent.? My PLC touch screen has a plotting feature so I have a screen that shows the CO2 and O2 levels plotted over time.? It is pretty easy to see with the absorbent become saturated. So the short answer is I like the better accuracy? I get over the?range I would expect to see. I am sorry to miss the convention as well.? I was looking forward to hearing about the progress you have made on your new one atmosphere boat. Are you still planning on casting the pressure hull? Next week I will be in your part of the world Australia; not home but close.? No plans to hit New Zealand on this trip.? Though I would like to see how Hugh Fulton is coming along on his QBoat Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it. I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options. How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range? Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but the range on the one you bought is 0 to 1%. Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300 in Florida. Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. > > >http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module >?Has worked flawlessly. > > >Cliff > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > >Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? > >Thanks Pete > >-------------------------------------------- >On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > >Hank >On the R300, I have life support >module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen >Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing >with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an >external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 >with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure >reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? >reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure >downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum >rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two >1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of >this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ >controller from Porter.? >? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set >from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max >pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 >controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of >the O2 SLPM?flow rate. >Both these items were purchased on >Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy >with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 >and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens >and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between >19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with >in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it >automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions >rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle >valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both >main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually >adjust the O2 rate >? into the boat. >The >second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is >scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter >with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did >not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 >ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement >and part of the problem was the blower was not strong >enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec >Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a >show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that >is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of >scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has >worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level >below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 >ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration >below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better >? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop >through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a >stronger blower. >Long >answer to short question. > >Cliff > > > >? > >? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, >hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >? ? > >? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric >flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something >better?Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 20 14:25:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:25:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Com Sub Message-ID: <1405880706.77605.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Did the Com Sub sell? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 20 16:49:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:49:28 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Com Sub In-Reply-To: <1405880706.77605.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405880706.77605.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53cc2b5e.023e460a.4eee.ffffeaa3@mx.google.com> Comsub did not sell but in NZ?? Hardly expected it to. I had a guy interested and thought it might push him a bit. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 6:25 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Com Sub Did the Com Sub sell? Hank __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10125 (20140720) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 20 17:08:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:08:45 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1405863914.36636.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405803457.25045.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405828784.83976.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405863914.36636.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53cc2fe4.41aa440a.258f.ffffef8d@mx.google.com> Hi Cliff, IF you had been taking your sub I would have made the effort to come across. Q-Sub!! Batteries!! Trying to get them sorted and I am on my 3rd lot and it has not been in the water. Biggest problem is I got them too early and they have not been cycled regularly. 2nd problem is the gearbox. I contacted Mercruiser agent and asked which direction did the driveshaft have to go before I made the gearboxes. He told me I could run it either way. I belaboured the point to make sure as I said I could do a gearbox to go either way. Trouble is I did not get it in writing. Now after testing and pulling the top off I found I have to redesign and remake two gearboxes to give same direction in as out. That really taught me a lesson as well as making me angry as hell. Also had a Kelly BLDC motor controller fall over and trying to get it fixed. A few minor issues with wiring and controls which I expected. I have done some nice LED lights 150 watt which are 2nd generation but are good to go. They get a bit hot in air after 15 minutes but all good in water. Had some problems with the engines as I had taken a feed off the crank sensor. Took that off and they ran sweetly. Hydraulics needed pump changing out for a smaller one. Again supplier fault. Getting there but as you say, complexity = extended time. All-a-same-engineering, Boss!! Kind regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 1:45 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Good point about the ABS increasing the CO2 limit for scrubber change out and emergency lift support situations. I still prefer to have higher resolution of the measurement for normal operating conditions so I will stick wit my 1% sensor. If you install a 5% sensor and find out you are not happy after using it awhile, the nice part about using a PLC is it is easy to change a few rungs of ladder logic and install a different sensor. Sounds like you are having second thoughts on casting an aluminum hull. If you went with ABS rule, you would end up having to do a lot of imperial testing of the hull meet their classing rules. Thy like and understand steel weldments! When I last saw the Q-Sub which was several years ago, it had its exostructure off. There a lot of systems on the boat. Added systems means added complexity which means a longer time to sort eve thing out. But "I agree, when she finally gets commissioned, she will be awesome! Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Hi Cliff, The graphs on your plc sound a great idea. Good way to monitor things. With G.L. the accuracy you get on the 0-50,000ppm (5%) unit is fine. They require an accuracy of + or - 0.001 bar CO2 partial pressure. That is 1000ppm. ABS does say 0.5% by volume limit, but it lets you go up to 1% during a scrubber change over, & 1.5% for emergency life support situations. I like the 0-50,000 unit for peace of mind, in case you did get in an emergency situation & the CO2 level went beyond 10,000ppm. On the pdf for the higher range units it says that the minimum operating pressure is .950 - 40 bar. So I guess you would need to monitor the cabin pressure with alarms to ensure you didn't go below the minimum it functioned at. I couldn't see any pressure operating range specified with your unit. I'm not sure where I'm at with the aluminum pressure hull idea. Gas bubbles formed in the casting process are hard to control. G.L. doesn't like aluminum as a pressure vessel, & it's more subject to galvanic corrosion than steel. Also if I wanted it hard anodized I would have to do it outside N.Z. as there are no tanks big enough here. There are ASME rules for cast aluminum pressure vessels, but I haven't got hold of them yet. (anyone own them??) Phil made one of his Newt suits out of cast aluminum; so hopefully I can pick his brains on this in August. Don't you love the flight down here. Hope you sleep well on planes. I caught up with Hugh last week & some of the exostructure was off his Q-sub. When you see it like that you can appreciate the enormous amount of engineering work gone in to it. I think Hugh is well & truly over it with all the problems but it's going to be awesome when he get's it diving. Have a good trip to OZ. Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Alan >From a Navy document on CO2 they describe the physiological impact of CO2 in the atmosphere: 2-3% Shortness of breath deep breathing 5% Breathing becomes heavy, sweating, pulse quickens 7.5% Headaches, dizziness, restlessness, breathlessness, increased heart rate and blood pressure, visual distortion 10% Impaired hearing, nausea, vomiting, loss of consciousness 30% Coma, convulsions, death A 0-30,000 ppm (3%) or 0-50,000 (5%) sensor is fine but you loss accuracy when the span increases. These meters are typically +/- 0.5% accuracy based on the span of the meter. For a 30,000 ppm meter, this gives +/- 150 ppm. For a 10,000 ppm span, the same 0.5% accuracy meter gives you a +/- 50 ppm accuracy, or three time the resolution of the measurement. Another reason I like the 10,000 span is for my boat I am trying to stay within the 0-5000 ppm level set by ABS. Normally this sensor is reading 1000-2000 ppm. The only time is will run higher is when the CO2 absorbent become saturated and is no longer pulling CO2 out of air. So if has been 8 plus hours on one scrubber, I start to get a color change of the absorbent and I see the CO2 ppm level start to continually increase, I know it is time to change the absorbent. My PLC touch screen has a plotting feature so I have a screen that shows the CO2 and O2 levels plotted over time. It is pretty easy to see with the absorbent become saturated. So the short answer is I like the better accuracy I get over the range I would expect to see. I am sorry to miss the convention as well. I was looking forward to hearing about the progress you have made on your new one atmosphere boat. Are you still planning on casting the pressure hull? Next week I will be in your part of the world Australia; not home but close. No plans to hit New Zealand on this trip. Though I would like to see how Hugh Fulton is coming along on his QBoat Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it. I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options. How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range? Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but the range on the one you bought is 0 to 1%. Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300 in Florida. Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-mod ule Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This regulator reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure downstream of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter. The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig. This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal of the O2 SLPM flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list. I have been very happy with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%. ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is scrubbing the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough. At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10125 (20140720) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10126 (20140720) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 20 18:02:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:02:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <53cc2fe4.41aa440a.258f.ffffef8d@mx.google.com> References: <1405611017.95501.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728302.78535.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1405729501.71482.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405803457.25045.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405828784.83976.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405863914.36636.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cc2fe4.41aa440a.258f.ffffef8d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1405893723.20108.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hugh Sounds like you have your hands full trying to work through these system issues.??Aren't prototypes fun! ?Hang in there.? I see light at the end of the tunnel. Regards Cliff ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Hi Cliff,? IF you had been taking your sub I would have made the effort to come across.? Q-Sub!!? Batteries!!? Trying to get them sorted and I am on my 3rd lot and it has not been in the water.? Biggest problem is I got them too early and they have not been cycled regularly. 2nd problem is the gearbox.? I contacted Mercruiser agent and asked which direction did the driveshaft have to go before I made the gearboxes.? He told me I could run it either way.? I belaboured the point to make sure as I said I could do a gearbox to go either way.? Trouble is I did not get it in writing.? Now after testing and pulling the top off I found I have to redesign and remake two gearboxes to give same direction in as out.? That really taught me a lesson as well as making me angry as hell.? Also had a Kelly BLDC motor controller fall over and trying to get it fixed.? A few minor issues with wiring and controls which I expected.? I have done some nice LED lights 150 watt which are 2nd generation but are good to go.? They get a bit hot in air after 15 minutes but all good in water.? Had some problems with the engines as I had taken a feed off the crank sensor.? Took that off and they ran sweetly.? Hydraulics needed pump changing out for a smaller one.? Again supplier fault.? Getting there but as you say, complexity = extended time. All-a-same-engineering, Boss!! ? Kind regards,? Hugh ? ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 1:45 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Good point about the ABS?increasing the CO2 limit for scrubber change out and emergency lift support situations.? I still prefer to have higher resolution of the measurement for normal operating conditions so I will stick wit my 1% sensor.? If you install a 5% sensor and find out you are not happy after using it awhile, the nice part about using a PLC is it is easy to change a few rungs of ladder logic and install a different sensor.? ? Sounds like you are having second thoughts on casting an aluminum hull.? If you went with ABS rule, you would end up having to do a lot of imperial testing of the hull meet their classing rules.? Thy like and understand steel weldments! ? When I last saw the Q-Sub which was several years ago, it had its exostructure off.? There a lot of systems on the boat.? Added systems means added complexity which means a longer time to sort eve thing out.?But "I agree, when she finally gets commissioned, she will be awesome! ? Cliff ? ? From:Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Hi Cliff, The graphs on your plc sound a great idea. Good way to monitor things. With G.L. the accuracy you get on the 0-50,000ppm (5%) unit is fine. They require an accuracy of + or - 0.001 bar CO2 partial pressure. That is 1000ppm. ? ?ABS does say 0.5% by volume limit, but it lets you go up to 1% during a scrubber change over, & 1.5% for emergency life support situations. I like the 0-50,000 unit for peace of mind, in case you did get in an emergency situation & the CO2 level went beyond 10,000ppm. On the pdf for the higher range units it says that the minimum operating pressure is .950 - 40 bar. So I guess you would need to monitor the cabin pressure with alarms to ensure you didn't go below the minimum it functioned at. I couldn't see any pressure operating range specified with your unit. ? ? I'm not sure where I'm at with the aluminum pressure hull idea. Gas bubbles formed in the casting process are hard to control. G.L. doesn't like aluminum as a pressure vessel, & it's more subject to galvanic corrosion than steel. Also if I wanted it hard anodized I would have to do it outside N.Z. as there are no tanks big enough here. There are ASME rules for cast aluminum pressure vessels, but I haven't got hold of them yet. (anyone own them??) Phil made one of his Newt suits out of cast aluminum; so hopefully I can pick his brains on this in August. ?Don't you love the flight down here. Hope you sleep well on planes.? ? ?I caught up with Hugh last week & some of the exostructure was off his Q-sub. When you see it like that you can appreciate the enormous amount of engineering work gone in to it. I think Hugh is well & truly over it with all the problems but it's going to be awesome when he get's it diving. Have a good trip to OZ. Alan ? ? ? ? ? ? From:Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Alan ? From a Navy document on CO2 they describe the physiological impact of CO2 in the atmosphere: ? 2-3%? Shortness of breath deep breathing 5%???? Breathing becomes heavy, sweating, pulse quickens 7.5%? Headaches, dizziness, restlessness, breathlessness, increased heart rate and blood pressure, visual distortion 10%???Impaired hearing, nausea, vomiting, loss of consciousness 30%???Coma, convulsions, death ? ? ? A? 0-30,000 ppm (3%)?or 0-50,000? (5%) sensor is fine but you loss accuracy when the span increases.? These meters are typically +/- 0.5% accuracy based on the span of the meter.? For a 30,000 ppm meter, this gives +/- 150 ppm.? For a 10,000 ppm span, the same 0.5% accuracy meter gives you a +/- 50 ppm accuracy, or three time the resolution of the measurement.? Another reason I like the 10,000 span is for my boat I am trying to stay within the 0-5000 ppm level set by ABS.?Normally this sensor is reading 1000-2000 ppm.? The only time is will run higher is when the CO2 absorbent become saturated and is no longer pulling CO2 out of air.?So if has been 8 plus hours on one scrubber, I start to get a color?change of the absorbent?and I see the CO2 ppm level start to continually increase, I know it is time to change the absorbent.? My PLC touch screen has a plotting feature so I have a screen that shows the CO2 and O2 levels plotted over time.? It is pretty easy to see with the absorbent become saturated. ? So the short answer is I like the better accuracy? I get over the?range I would expect to see. ? I am sorry to miss the convention as well.? I was looking forward to hearing about the progress you have made on your new one atmosphere boat. Are you still planning on casting the pressure hull? ? Next week I will be in your part of the world Australia; not home but close.? No plans to hit New Zealand on this trip.? Though I would like to see how Hugh Fulton is coming along on his QBoat ? Cliff ? ? ? ? From:Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it. I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options. How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range? Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but the range on the one you bought is 0 to 1%. Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300 in Florida. Alan Sent from my iPad ? On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. >? >http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module >?Has worked flawlessly. >? >Cliff > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >? >From:Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > >Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? > >Thanks Pete > >-------------------------------------------- >On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > >Hank >On the R300, I have life support >module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen >Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing >with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an >external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 >with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure >reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? >reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure >downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum >rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two >1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of >this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ >controller from Porter.? >? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set >from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max >pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 >controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of >the O2 SLPM?flow rate. >Both these items were purchased on >Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy >with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 >and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens >and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between >19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with >in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it >automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions >rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle >valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both >main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually >adjust the O2 rate >? into the boat. >The >second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is >scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter >with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did >not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 >ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement >and part of the problem was the blower was not strong >enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec >Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a >show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that >is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of >scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has >worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level >below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 >ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration >below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better >? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop >through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a >stronger blower. >Long >answer to short question. > >Cliff > > > >? > >? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, >hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >? ? > >? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric >flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something >better?Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >? ? >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10125 (20140720) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10126 (20140720) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10126 (20140720) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 05:17:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 10:17:46 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Hi Cliff,, Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? Thanks James ? On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks > > > Cliff Redus > > On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support >> female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the >> threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read >> 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is >> 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest >> that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and >> minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >> >> Can anyone confirm this? >> >> Cliff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 05:56:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:56:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi James, I could generate some robust discussion here, but I don't think the wrap around tube is a very good idea. If you look at professional oil compensation units, they are set at about 4-5psi above ambient pressure & have reservoirs to compensate for oil loss & for oil expansion as it heats up. From past posts, Emile & Carsten had all soughts of trouble with oil compensating & Emile changed to rim thrusters. I have read a previous post where someone quotes a guy with years of experience modifying minnkota motors for underwater use, as saying that 3 out of 4 can operate down to 100ft without any compensation. I think this may be part? of the reason the?wrap around tube seems to work. Still, if water gets in there will be some protection from the oil. Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff,, Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? Thanks James ? ? On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Thanks > > > >Cliff Redus > >On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hi Cliff, >> >> >>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >> >> >>Best, >> >> >>Alec >> >> >> >>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>> >>> >>>Can anyone confirm this? >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 07:19:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D172ECD1737B75-2238-E47F@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com> The o-ring bucket for the shaft seal and the body seals are not actually designed for any sort of internal head pressure on the M-Ks. That said, I've seen some modified to improve the groove shape and tank tested to failure, which happened at the equivalent of 1200'. This exercise included a modification to the shaft penetration recess to allow for a ceramic pump seal installation. I think you will find that Karl S. compensates (with air) to ambient, and does a lot of diving with little or no trouble. The simple tube compensator (which serves as its own reservoir, I might add) is a time honored compromise. Cheap and effective. Snoopy uses them successfully. Mine work just fine, too. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jul 21, 2014 5:59 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi James, I could generate some robust discussion here, but I don't think the wrap around tube is a very good idea. If you look at professional oil compensation units, they are set at about 4-5psi above ambient pressure & have reservoirs to compensate for oil loss & for oil expansion as it heats up. >From past posts, Emile & Carsten had all soughts of trouble with oil compensating & Emile changed to rim thrusters. I have read a previous post where someone quotes a guy with years of experience modifying minnkota motors for underwater use, as saying that 3 out of 4 can operate down to 100ft without any compensation. I think this may be part of the reason the wrap around tube seems to work. Still, if water gets in there will be some protection from the oil. Cheers Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff,, Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? Thanks James ? On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff Redus On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. Best, Alec On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. Can anyone confirm this? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 08:34:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:34:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Hi James, I agree it can be a bit of a pain getting the last bit of air out. What I do is cut off the inside of the plastic pipe nipple so it barely protrudes inside the can. Also, I've got an idea for the next version... its using a little bellows bottle instead of the wrap-around, which would have a lot more volume flexibility. My problem is how best to connect the bottle to the motor, I'm still playing around and haven't come up with a specific arrangement. Suggestions are welcome! http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/bellows-style-oiler-3-pak-sku084000164-20419-44730.aspx That said, I've used the existing method for years and years without incident, and the last dive was to 220 feet with no leakage whatsoever in any of the three motors. I think over-pressuring would be fine if the shaft seals could take pressure in either direction, but these have lip seals so it would be tend to blow them out. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:17 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff,, > Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil > compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder > as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near > the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor > and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No > matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a > mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It > really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly > compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this > pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against > the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal > it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of > air. What do you think? > Thanks > James > ? > > > > > On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Cliff, >> >> It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support >>> female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the >>> threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read >>> 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is >>> 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest >>> that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and >>> minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >>> >>> Can anyone confirm this? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 08:40:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:40:17 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <8D172ECD1737B75-2238-E47F@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D172ECD1737B75-2238-E47F@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Guys, Of course there are different ways of doing it. I think the problem is in my case that i cant get that last bit of air out which is why im thinking of that vent at the back end, if it will fit there. I'd also thought of putting a fuel bulb or similar in the line to allow a larger reservoir. I paid quite a lot for my motors and I really do not want to bust them. Oh, Alecs mail just dropped in. Yes, those bellows are similar to the fuel bulb idea. Ive actually bought several little fuel bulbs as a test. I think i might rig one up and see how it goes. Also i cant trim off the inside of the pipe nipples as I made them from stainless. Could replace them i suppose. hmm. Anyway, on another subject, have a look at my new wheels, im really pleased with them, although im not sure they look quite as good as the skids. Only got one side on so cant tell you how they work, but so far so good. Regards James ? On 21 July 2014 12:19, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The o-ring bucket for the shaft seal and the body seals are not actually > designed for any sort of internal head pressure on the M-Ks. That said, > I've seen some modified to improve the groove shape and tank tested to > failure, which happened at the equivalent of 1200'. This exercise included > a modification to the shaft penetration recess to allow for a ceramic pump > seal installation. I think you will find that Karl S. compensates (with > air) to ambient, and does a lot of diving with little or no trouble. The > simple tube compensator (which serves as its own reservoir, I might add) is > a time honored compromise. Cheap and effective. Snoopy uses them > successfully. Mine work just fine, too. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Mon, Jul 21, 2014 5:59 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > Hi James, > I could generate some robust discussion here, but I don't think the wrap > around tube is a very good idea. > If you look at professional oil compensation units, they are set at about > 4-5psi above ambient pressure & > have reservoirs to compensate for oil loss & for oil expansion as it heats > up. > From past posts, Emile & Carsten had all soughts of trouble with oil > compensating & Emile changed to > rim thrusters. I have read a previous post where someone quotes a guy with > years of experience modifying minnkota > motors for underwater use, as saying that 3 out of 4 can operate down to > 100ft without any compensation. I think this may be part > of the reason the wrap around tube seems to work. Still, if water gets in > there will be some protection from the oil. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, July 21, 2014 9:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > Hi Cliff,, > Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil > compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder > as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near > the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor > and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No > matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a > mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It > really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly > compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this > pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against > the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal > it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of > air. What do you think? > Thanks > James > ? > > > > > On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Thanks > > > Cliff Redus > > On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support > female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the > threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read > 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is > 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest > that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and > minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. > > Can anyone confirm this? > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wheekls.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 61497 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 08:56:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:56:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1405947388.80783.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I have a version with a 1/4 pipe nipple in the cone and that seems to work well, I orient the motor so the hole is at the highest point to fill..? I have two areas in Gamma that are oil?compensated.? One is the electric valve bank for the manipulator.?? I changed the set up on the valve bank to a rubber primer bulb from an outboard motor.? That is very similar to what it had and super easy to fill etc.? On my magnetic coupler arrangement, I have an oil reservoir for the shaft bearings.? This area has a brand new idea purely for the fun of it.? I have mounted a left over air cylinder to the shaft tube in the vertical position and the piston can move freely to compensate.? It is a good area to play around with because there is no harm done if it fails.? When ever I have a fitting protruding into a cavity like you mentioned, I cut a slot in the side of the fitting to let the air escape.? Similar to what Alec does, instead of cutting it short. Hank On Monday, July 21, 2014 8:34:57 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I agree it can be a bit of a pain getting the last bit of air out. What I do is cut off the inside of the plastic pipe nipple so it barely protrudes inside the can. Also, I've got an idea for the next version... its using a little bellows bottle instead of the wrap-around, which would have a lot more volume flexibility. My problem is how best to connect the bottle to the motor, I'm still playing around and haven't come up with a specific arrangement. Suggestions are welcome! ? http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/bellows-style-oiler-3-pak-sku084000164-20419-44730.aspx? That said, I've used the existing method for years and years without incident, and the last dive was to 220 feet with no leakage whatsoever in any of the three motors. I think over-pressuring would be fine if the shaft seals could take pressure in either direction, but these have lip seals so it would be tend to blow them out. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:17 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff,, >Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >Thanks >James >? > >? > > > >On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Thanks >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Hi Cliff, >>> >>> >>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>> >>> >>>Best, >>> >>> >>>Alec >>> >>> >>> >>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>> >>>> >>>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>> >>>> >>>>Cliff >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 10:22:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:22:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? Cliff ________________________________ From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff,, Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? Thanks James ? ? On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks > > > >Cliff Redus > >On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hi Cliff, >> >> >>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >> >> >>Best, >> >> >>Alec >> >> >> >>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>> >>> >>>Can anyone confirm this? >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 11:30:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:30:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D172ECD1737B75-2238-E47F@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wow, love those wheels, I think they look great and will work even better. You didn't skimp on the number of them either! On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:40 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Guys, > Of course there are different ways of doing it. I think the problem is in > my case that i cant get that last bit of air out which is why im thinking > of that vent at the back end, if it will fit there. I'd also thought of > putting a fuel bulb or similar in the line to allow a larger reservoir. I > paid quite a lot for my motors and I really do not want to bust them. Oh, > Alecs mail just dropped in. Yes, those bellows are similar to the fuel > bulb idea. Ive actually bought several little fuel bulbs as a test. I > think i might rig one up and see how it goes. Also i cant trim off the > inside of the pipe nipples as I made them from stainless. Could replace > them i suppose. hmm. > > Anyway, on another subject, have a look at my new wheels, im really > pleased with them, although im not sure they look quite as good as the > skids. Only got one side on so cant tell you how they work, but so far so > good. > Regards > James > > ? > > > > > On 21 July 2014 12:19, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> The o-ring bucket for the shaft seal and the body seals are not actually >> designed for any sort of internal head pressure on the M-Ks. That said, >> I've seen some modified to improve the groove shape and tank tested to >> failure, which happened at the equivalent of 1200'. This exercise included >> a modification to the shaft penetration recess to allow for a ceramic pump >> seal installation. I think you will find that Karl S. compensates (with >> air) to ambient, and does a lot of diving with little or no trouble. The >> simple tube compensator (which serves as its own reservoir, I might add) is >> a time honored compromise. Cheap and effective. Snoopy uses them >> successfully. Mine work just fine, too. >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Sent: Mon, Jul 21, 2014 5:59 am >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >> >> Hi James, >> I could generate some robust discussion here, but I don't think the wrap >> around tube is a very good idea. >> If you look at professional oil compensation units, they are set at about >> 4-5psi above ambient pressure & >> have reservoirs to compensate for oil loss & for oil expansion as it >> heats up. >> From past posts, Emile & Carsten had all soughts of trouble with oil >> compensating & Emile changed to >> rim thrusters. I have read a previous post where someone quotes a guy >> with years of experience modifying minnkota >> motors for underwater use, as saying that 3 out of 4 can operate down to >> 100ft without any compensation. I think this may be part >> of the reason the wrap around tube seems to work. Still, if water gets >> in there will be some protection from the oil. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Monday, July 21, 2014 9:17 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >> >> Hi Cliff,, >> Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil >> compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder >> as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near >> the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor >> and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No >> matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a >> mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It >> really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly >> compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this >> pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against >> the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal >> it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of >> air. What do you think? >> Thanks >> James >> ? >> >> >> >> >> On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Cliff, >> >> It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support >> female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the >> threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read >> 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is >> 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest >> that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and >> minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >> >> Can anyone confirm this? >> >> Cliff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wheekls.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 61497 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 11:50:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:50:57 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D172ECD1737B75-2238-E47F@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff\Alec\All, Sorry Cliff, I just banged that email off quick without remembering you are one of the proper engineers in the group. Im sure you don't need my boy scout tips.! The problem for me is that there seems to be a fair bit of air stuck, obviously trapped by the protruding nipple. When I say "a fair bit", I mean the tube seems to be about half full no matter how much I swing it around and top it up. Ive tried various methods to get shot of it and there always seems to end up this bit. Hence the little plug idea which I agree, introduced another potential leak point. I'll think about it for now. Alec, yes I was pleased with how the wheels turned out. I did it by hand and there was only one wheel that was a bit wonky! 10 wheels per side. Cant wait to test it out next weekend! Regards James On 21 July 2014 16:30, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wow, love those wheels, I think they look great and will work even better. > You didn't skimp on the number of them either! > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:40 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> Of course there are different ways of doing it. I think the problem is >> in my case that i cant get that last bit of air out which is why im >> thinking of that vent at the back end, if it will fit there. I'd also >> thought of putting a fuel bulb or similar in the line to allow a larger >> reservoir. I paid quite a lot for my motors and I really do not want to >> bust them. Oh, Alecs mail just dropped in. Yes, those bellows are similar >> to the fuel bulb idea. Ive actually bought several little fuel bulbs as a >> test. I think i might rig one up and see how it goes. Also i cant trim >> off the inside of the pipe nipples as I made them from stainless. Could >> replace them i suppose. hmm. >> >> Anyway, on another subject, have a look at my new wheels, im really >> pleased with them, although im not sure they look quite as good as the >> skids. Only got one side on so cant tell you how they work, but so far so >> good. >> Regards >> James >> >> ? >> >> >> >> >> On 21 July 2014 12:19, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> The o-ring bucket for the shaft seal and the body seals are not actually >>> designed for any sort of internal head pressure on the M-Ks. That said, >>> I've seen some modified to improve the groove shape and tank tested to >>> failure, which happened at the equivalent of 1200'. This exercise included >>> a modification to the shaft penetration recess to allow for a ceramic pump >>> seal installation. I think you will find that Karl S. compensates (with >>> air) to ambient, and does a lot of diving with little or no trouble. The >>> simple tube compensator (which serves as its own reservoir, I might add) is >>> a time honored compromise. Cheap and effective. Snoopy uses them >>> successfully. Mine work just fine, too. >>> Vance >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Sent: Mon, Jul 21, 2014 5:59 am >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >>> >>> Hi James, >>> I could generate some robust discussion here, but I don't think the wrap >>> around tube is a very good idea. >>> If you look at professional oil compensation units, they are set at >>> about 4-5psi above ambient pressure & >>> have reservoirs to compensate for oil loss & for oil expansion as it >>> heats up. >>> From past posts, Emile & Carsten had all soughts of trouble with oil >>> compensating & Emile changed to >>> rim thrusters. I have read a previous post where someone quotes a guy >>> with years of experience modifying minnkota >>> motors for underwater use, as saying that 3 out of 4 can operate down to >>> 100ft without any compensation. I think this may be part >>> of the reason the wrap around tube seems to work. Still, if water gets >>> in there will be some protection from the oil. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Monday, July 21, 2014 9:17 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >>> >>> Hi Cliff,, >>> Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil >>> compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder >>> as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near >>> the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor >>> and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No >>> matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a >>> mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It >>> really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly >>> compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this >>> pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against >>> the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal >>> it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of >>> air. What do you think? >>> Thanks >>> James >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> >>> On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Cliff, >>> >>> It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support >>> female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the >>> threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read >>> 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is >>> 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest >>> that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and >>> minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >>> >>> Can anyone confirm this? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: motor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wheekls.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 61497 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 12:08:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:08:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff & all, thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff. I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent bubble out of the seals. Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each to stem air flow if there was a failure. Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans. (when I wake up) Have them somewhere. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body. The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). > To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point. Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast. > > To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air. > > As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. > > I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats. > > Cliff > > > > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > Hi Cliff,, > Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? > Thanks > James > ? > > > > > On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks > > > Cliff Redus > >> On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Cliff, >> >> It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >> >> Can anyone confirm this? >> >> Cliff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 13:40:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 10:40:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan? I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters.? I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom?near White Island! If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, ?I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh?Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first?stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can ?but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure.?? ?Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve?and not the lip seal. Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff & all, thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff.? I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent bubble out of the seals. ? ?Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each to stem air flow if there was a failure. ? ?Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans.? (when I wake up) Have them somewhere. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? > > >To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? > > >As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? > > >I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? > > >Cliff > > > > > > >________________________________ > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > > >Hi Cliff,, >Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >Thanks >James >? > >? > > > >On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Thanks >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Hi Cliff, >>> >>> >>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>> >>> >>>Best, >>> >>> >>>Alec >>> >>> >>> >>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>> >>>> >>>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>> >>>> >>>>Cliff >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 15:59:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:59:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters. I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom near White Island! > > If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure. Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve and not the lip seal. > > Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. > > Cliff > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > Hi Cliff & all, > thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff. > I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. > Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 > would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. > Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to > give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent > bubble out of the seals. > Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. > you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each > to stem air flow if there was a failure. > Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans. > (when I wake up) Have them somewhere. > Regards Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body. The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). >> To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point. Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast. >> >> To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air. >> >> As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. >> >> I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >> >> Hi Cliff,, >> Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? >> Thanks >> James >> ? >> >> >> >> >> On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >>> On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Cliff, >>> >>> It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >>> >>> Can anyone confirm this? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 17:31:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:31:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings.? The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient.? I need to do some bench testing.? I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. Get some sleep. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan? I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters.? I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom?near White Island! > > >If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, ?I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh?Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first?stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can ?but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure.?? ?Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve?and not the lip seal. > > >Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > > >Hi Cliff & all, >thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff.? >I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. >Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 >would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. >Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to >give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent >bubble out of the seals. >? ?Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. >you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each >to stem air flow if there was a failure. >? ?Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans.? >(when I wake up) Have them somewhere. >Regards Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >>To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? >> >> >>To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? >> >> >>As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? >> >> >>I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >> >> >> >>Hi Cliff,, >>Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >>Thanks >>James >>? >> >>? >> >> >> >>On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Thanks >>> >>> >>> >>>Cliff Redus >>> >>>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>>Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> >>>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>>> >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>> >>>>Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Cliff >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 18:46:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:46:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage. You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors. Vance said he was involved?in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage.? However it's not known if this was from sea water?getting in through the seals or from poor filter systems for filling? the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to?2000 ft, so a lot of air is?going in to the motors & any moisture? in the air would probably drop out of suspension?& stay in the motor. I think they had been running for a couple of years & probably been sitting in water all the time. ? ?Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested. You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the? handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion & were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty. Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in case there is a leak & you deplete your? ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad) Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings.? The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient.? I need to do some bench testing.? I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. Get some sleep. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan? I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters.? I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom?near White Island! > > >If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, ?I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh?Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first?stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can ?but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure.?? ?Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve?and not the lip seal. > > >Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. > > >Cliff > > > > > > > >From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > > >Hi Cliff & all, >thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff.? >I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. >Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 >would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. >Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to >give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent >bubble out of the seals. >? ?Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. >you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each >to stem air flow if there was a failure. >? ?Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans.? >(when I wake up) Have them somewhere. >Regards Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >>To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? >> >> >>To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? >> >> >>As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? >> >> >>I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >>From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >> >> >> >>Hi Cliff,, >>Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >>Thanks >>James >>? >> >>? >> >> >> >>On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Thanks >>> >>> >>> >>>Cliff Redus >>> >>>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>>Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> >>>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>>> >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>> >>>>Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Cliff >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 20:05:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:05:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405936565.64926.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53CDAADF.4000208@psubs.org> On 7/21/2014 5:56 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi James, > I could generate some robust discussion here, but I don't think the > wrap around tube is a very good idea. > If you look at professional oil compensation units, they are set at > about 4-5psi above ambient pressure & > have reservoirs to compensate for oil loss & for oil expansion as it > heats up. > From past posts, Emile & Carsten had all soughts of trouble with oil > compensating & Emile changed to > rim thrusters. I have read a previous post where someone quotes a guy > with years of experience modifying minnkota > motors for underwater use, as saying that 3 out of 4 can operate down > to 100ft without any compensation. I think this may be part > of the reason the wrap around tube seems to work. Still, if water gets > in there will be some protection from the oil. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Monday, July 21, 2014 9:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > Hi Cliff,, > Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil > compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around > tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole > somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going > around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last > dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because > the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not > allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry > that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a > modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the > suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. > I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able > to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? > Thanks > James > > > > On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Thanks > > > Cliff Redus > > On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> Hi Cliff, >> >> It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main >> support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered >> pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a >> digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the >> minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads >> per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest >> that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). >> The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" >> and 1.0649" respectively. >> >> Can anyone confirm this? >> >> Cliff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 20:13:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:13:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <53CDAC9C.1070105@psubs.org> Why not put one tap mid-section and the other tap at the bell end housing, avoiding the need for a third hole. I haven't taken my 101's apart yet but it looks like there is plenty of room for a tap on the bell end based upon the exploded parts diagram. See it at http://www.northlandmarine.com/images/Riptide/Riptide%202011/Riptide%20Transom%20Mnt%202011/Riptide%20Trans%20101t.pdf Oil comp may have some issues but the attraction for me is simplicity and no support components like regulators and air distribution piping. Jon On 7/21/2014 5:17 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Cliff,, > Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil > compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around > tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole > somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going > around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last > dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because > the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not > allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry > that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a > modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the > suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. > I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able > to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? > Thanks > James > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 34837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 20:27:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:27:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405988829.40630.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The Titan first stage is a Balanced Diaphragm Design.? I am not sure if it will have the hysteresis effect you discuss with your experience with using a balanced piston type 1st first stage.??Thanks for mentioning this hysteresis.? I will do some bench test to check.? As you did on your ambient boat, I can always add a?2nd stage if I need better ambient air pressure control for pressure compensation. Hugh, can you post the model and manufacturer of the pressure reducing regulator Alan is refereeing to? Rather than having a dedicated tank for compensation air, to keep it simple I was just going to run the air compensation regulator off the main ballast air supply.? I already have a pressure sensor on the HP air pressure and low pressure alarms.? I also have tank pressure sensor ?interlocked through the PLC with my flood ballast controls so that the pilot can not dive the boat if the air pressure in the tanks is less than 50% of max.? But in the?spirit of KISS, it is hard to argue with the simplicity of oil compensation with a flexible hose for these MD-101's. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage. You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors. Vance said he was involved?in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage.? However it's not known if this was from sea water?getting in through the seals or from poor filter systems for filling? the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to?2000 ft, so a lot of air is?going in to the motors & any moisture? in the air would probably drop out of suspension?& stay in the motor. I think they had been running for a couple of years & probably been sitting in water all the time. ? ?Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested. You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the? handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion & were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty. Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in case there is a leak & you deplete your? ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad) Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings.? The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient.? I need to do some bench testing.? I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. Get some sleep. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan? I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters.? I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom?near White Island! > > >If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, ?I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh?Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first?stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can ?but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure.?? ?Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve?and not the lip seal. > > >Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec > > > >Hi Cliff & all, >thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff.? >I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. >Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 >would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. >Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to >give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent >bubble out of the seals. >? ?Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. >you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each >to stem air flow if there was a failure. >? ?Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans.? >(when I wake up) Have them somewhere. >Regards Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >>To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? >> >> >>To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? >> >> >>As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? >> >> >>I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >> >> >> >>Hi Cliff,, >>Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >>Thanks >>James >>? >> >>? >> >> >> >>On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Thanks >>> >>> >>> >>>Cliff Redus >>> >>>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>>Hi Cliff, >>>> >>>> >>>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>>> >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>> >>>>Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Cliff >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 20:35:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:35:25 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <51E2EFDA-C7B0-41A2-BACE-DD09049CDD33@yahoo.com> James, why not take the pipe nipple out & fill with oil if it is protruding too far in to the casing & inhibiting air from escaping? Alternatively unwind the nipple till it's just in the housing & do it up when finished. Maybe turn the motor over to help get the air out. Also tip it on it's end in case air is trapped between the fixed magnets. There was a good post on how to do all this, I think it was written by Greg. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/07/2014, at 9:17 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff,, > Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? > Thanks > James > ? > > > > >> On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >>> On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Cliff, >>> >>> It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. >>>> >>>> Can anyone confirm this? >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 20:55:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:55:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> Dissipation of heat to the water environment via conduction with the motor housing would help temper overall thermal expansion. The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite sized water jacket and not typically operated at full speed for long periods of time. I suspect actual thermal expansion of the oil in the motor housing during typical underwater operations is negligible. In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, JimK's GUPPY is oil compensated and three 101's in a K-boat configuration and had no problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub. Check out http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime with two forward 101's. Also in http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 aft, and at 4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's. Alec has smaller motors on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it around. I'm sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but from practical application it doesn't appear to be much of an issue when two or more motors are used. There's enough power to move the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect that is present. Jon On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the > better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get > traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like > Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding > into body. The other point is the wrap around tube volume can > compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal > with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a > small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be > all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the > required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil > you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal > expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of > oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to > 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 > OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). > To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure > as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take > external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. > So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of > 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal > expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the > tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes > the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure > compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure > compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only > designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip > seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor > with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are > starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential > pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point. Is > this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the > boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability > rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical > thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into > dropping ballast. > > To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power > are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference > between oil and air. > > As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time > on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. > > I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use > on my MD-101's for future boats. > > Cliff > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 21:08:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D1736092A50414-2830-146B7@webmail-d266.sysops.aol.com> Anyone who wants to get really serious can encapsulate the windings with thin epoxy and a vacuum pump, then turn them down to where they are supposed to be and reassemble. This also cuts the turbulence down to near zero, and is routinely done on compensated motors of higher horsepower. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jul 21, 2014 8:56 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Dissipation of heat to the water environment via conduction with the motor housing would help temper overall thermal expansion. The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite sized water jacket and not typically operated at full speed for long periods of time. I suspect actual thermal expansion of the oil in the motor housing during typical underwater operations is negligible. In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, JimK's GUPPY is oil compensated and three 101's in a K-boat configuration and had no problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub. Check out http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime with two forward 101's. Also in http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 aft, and at 4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's. Alec has smaller motors on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it around. I'm sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but from practical application it doesn't appear to be much of an issue when two or more motors are used. There's enough power to move the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect that is present. Jon On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body. The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point. Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast. To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air. As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 21:20:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:20:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1405992020.58690.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> there is a very nice solution here.? Magnetic couplers, it wouldn't take much to convert a minkota? to a magnetic coupled thruster. Hank On Monday, July 21, 2014 8:56:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dissipation of heat to the water environment via conduction with the motor housing would help temper overall thermal expansion.? The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite sized water jacket and not typically operated at full speed for long periods of time.? I suspect actual thermal expansion of the oil in the motor housing during typical underwater operations is negligible. In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, JimK's GUPPY is oil compensated and three 101's in a K-boat configuration and had no problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub.? Check out http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime with two forward 101's.? Also in http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 aft, and at 4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's.? Alec has smaller motors on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it around.? I'm sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but from practical application it doesn't appear to be much of an issue when two or more motors are used.? There's enough power to move the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect that is present. Jon On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? > > >To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? > > >As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? > > >I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? > > >Cliff > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 21:47:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:47:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1405993637.28062.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Concur Jon that water will act as thermal sink and that?the duty?cycle on the?thrusters are not severe but I don't agree that the thermal expansion in negligible.?If you assume that the temperature change I estimated was high by a factor of two, then you would still end up with 3 teaspoons of oil that would be forced into the ambient tube.? Small but not negligible.? There will be a change in the internal temperature of the motor from?the off position to on and given the amount of oil in the 101 body, there will be? oil that has to escape.? Granted, the primary purpose of the compensation is to keep from exposing the housing to a high differential pressure but thermal expansion still has to be accounted for in sizing the ambient reservoir. These?MK 101 are powerful at almost?1.8 HP at 47 amps when air filled ?but there has to be some degradation in power when filled with oil?due to the viscosity difference with air. At 75F, light oil is over 1800 times as viscous as air.?IS there enough power to push a psub about, sure.? ?I am just trying to come up with what kind of HP loss you get with oil compensation.? Does anyone know what rpm these motors max out at in the water? Good point Vance on trying to make the armature as hydraulically smooth as possible to maximize power when oil compensated.? I wonder how hard this would be to do? Cliff ? ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Dissipation of heat to the water environment via conduction with the motor housing would help temper overall thermal expansion.? The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite sized water jacket and not typically operated at full speed for long periods of time.? I suspect actual thermal expansion of the oil in the motor housing during typical underwater operations is negligible. In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, JimK's GUPPY is oil compensated and three 101's in a K-boat configuration and had no problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub.? Check out http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime with two forward 101's.? Also in http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 aft, and at 4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's.? Alec has smaller motors on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it around.? I'm sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but from practical application it doesn't appear to be much of an issue when two or more motors are used.? There's enough power to move the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect that is present. Jon On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? > > >To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? > > >As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? > > >I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? > > >Cliff > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 21:48:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:48:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers Message-ID: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, Love the rollers, they look real good.? Are you going to have a tilting track that the rollers run in?? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 21 22:02:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405993637.28062.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> <1405993637.28062.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D173681797F108-DE4-14AAB@webmail-d217.sysops.aol.com> Cliff, Messy, not hard. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jul 21, 2014 9:47 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Concur Jon that water will act as thermal sink and that the duty cycle on the thrusters are not severe but I don't agree that the thermal expansion in negligible. If you assume that the temperature change I estimated was high by a factor of two, then you would still end up with 3 teaspoons of oil that would be forced into the ambient tube. Small but not negligible. There will be a change in the internal temperature of the motor from the off position to on and given the amount of oil in the 101 body, there will be oil that has to escape. Granted, the primary purpose of the compensation is to keep from exposing the housing to a high differential pressure but thermal expansion still has to be accounted for in sizing the ambient reservoir. These MK 101 are powerful at almost 1.8 HP at 47 amps when air filled but there has to be some degradation in power when filled with oil due to the viscosity difference with air. At 75F, light oil is over 1800 times as viscous as air. IS there enough power to push a psub about, sure. I am just trying to come up with what kind of HP loss you get with oil compensation. Does anyone know what rpm these motors max out at in the water? Good point Vance on trying to make the armature as hydraulically smooth as possible to maximize power when oil compensated. I wonder how hard this would be to do? Cliff From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Dissipation of heat to the water environment via conduction with the motor housing would help temper overall thermal expansion. The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite sized water jacket and not typically operated at full speed for long periods of time. I suspect actual thermal expansion of the oil in the motor housing during typical underwater operations is negligible. In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, JimK's GUPPY is oil compensated and three 101's in a K-boat configuration and had no problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub. Check out http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime with two forward 101's. Also in http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 aft, and at 4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's. Alec has smaller motors on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it around. I'm sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but from practical application it doesn't appear to be much of an issue when two or more motors are used. There's enough power to move the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect that is present. Jon On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body. The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point. Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast. To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air. As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 01:10:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:10:11 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405988829.40630.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405988829.40630.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53cdf23e.a3ba440a.0c7c.ffff99da@mx.google.com> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 12:27 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec The Titan first stage is a Balanced Diaphragm Design. I am not sure if it will have the hysteresis effect you discuss with your experience with using a balanced piston type 1st first stage. Thanks for mentioning this hysteresis. I will do some bench test to check. As you did on your ambient boat, I can always add a 2nd stage if I need better ambient air pressure control for pressure compensation. Hugh, can you post the model and manufacturer of the pressure reducing regulator Alan is refereeing to? Rather than having a dedicated tank for compensation air, to keep it simple I was just going to run the air compensation regulator off the main ballast air supply. I already have a pressure sensor on the HP air pressure and low pressure alarms. I also have tank pressure sensor interlocked through the PLC with my flood ballast controls so that the pilot can not dive the boat if the air pressure in the tanks is less than 50% of max. But in the spirit of KISS, it is hard to argue with the simplicity of oil compensation with a flexible hose for these MD-101's. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage. You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors. Vance said he was involved in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage. However it's not known if this was from sea water getting in through the seals or from poor filter systems for filling the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to 2000 ft, so a lot of air is going in to the motors & any moisture in the air would probably drop out of suspension & stay in the motor. I think they had been running for a couple of years & probably been sitting in water all the time. Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested. You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion & were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty. Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in case there is a leak & you deplete your ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad) Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings. The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient. I need to do some bench testing. I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. Get some sleep. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters. I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom near White Island! If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure. Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve and not the lip seal. Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff & all, thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff. I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent bubble out of the seals. Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each to stem air flow if there was a failure. Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans. (when I wake up) Have them somewhere. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body. The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point. Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast. To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air. As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats. Cliff From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff,, Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? Thanks James ? On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff Redus On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. Best, Alec On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. Can anyone confirm this? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10132 (20140721) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 33808 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3993 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 04:28:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 01:28:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oil compensation Message-ID: <1406017693.22024.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I found some comments that Carsten made about oil expansion & compensation. Someone was interested in hearing them if I found them. The thread was 5 Dec 2010. Alan Alan and the other gentlemens, our expierence with oil filled motors, batterys or even propeller shafts is that the oil expand if the motor is runing longer time. Simple because its warm up. We had that problem on Eurosub on the first dives. And on Euronaut we filled the bladder complet up and the get pretty hard in the hot summer just by sun heating the sub. A full filled bladder with over pressure creates a lot of interal pressure in the wrong direct - a lot of force for the bladder itself and hose work. Therefore our bladder are only half expand during the filling. But still free of any air. An other point is that the bladder has to be not to small. To create a slightly overpressure on the motorseal you just install the bladder below the motorcasing. But we found out that on trolling motor (electric outboards) this is not nessesary. There seals are good for some douzend feets at least - so you can install the bladder else were. Filling is simpler if the bladder is slightly over the motor - you can vent the system direct on the filling point. Another point is that we install now one bladder per motor - in the earlier sub (Sgt.Peppers) we install a central one for all motors. Hard to find a leak after a dive with all the T-crossing piepings and motorseals.. vbr Carsten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 04:51:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 01:51:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oil compensation In-Reply-To: <1406017693.22024.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406017693.22024.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406019083.39650.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> But wait there's more....below is a summary by Jim of advice for oil compensating & Carsten's cynical? additional points. Alan * o: * Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] illustration is this what you mean sort of?? pressuriz... * From:?MerlinSub at t-online.de * Date: 05 Dec 2010 09:43 GMT * Reply-to:?personal_submersibles at psubs.org * Sender:?owner-personal_submersibles at psubs.org ________________________________ 9. Run the motor a half hour with the boat in the water and see may how the hot oil gets out of the weakest point by internal overpressure.. 10. Switch of the motor and let the boat still in the water for two hours or so. Open the engine the next weekend in you shop and found partly water in it because of the underpressure creates as the oil cool down.. The best for the seal is if it see no pressure differtial doesnt matter from which side. So logical the bladder has the same high as the motor. A deeper installed bladder indicates a leak by oil getting out in the water, A higher install may not. A higher installed bladder indicates maybe allready a leak onshore - and thats maybe the better solution. The best solution is that the hose work between using device and bladder is from clear material and has a loop higher than the user and the bladder. So air in the system can be easy spotted. See here: http://www.euronaut.org/content/upload/notes/IMG_3321a.jpg Euronaut has seven bladders on: - Stern Thruster (oil) - Bow Thruster (oil) - Anchor winch motor (oil) - Propeller shaft (oil) - Void space frame cave between fwd.ballast tank and pressure hull (coolant water) - Void space frame cave between aft.ballast tank and pressure hull (coolant water) - One bag for all three fix rudder skegs (coolant water) - Side Rudder and Stern deeprudder are also filled with c.water but without bags. See also the other mail I just send. vbr Carsten ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This mail is shareware - for any tipp you find usefull please send a dollar." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ schrieb: > All, > > I'm having difficulty understanding the need for the bladder, and it seems > like an additional complication and an additional point of vulnerability > along with the line. How would this work: > > 1. Install a bleed valve at the uppermost point of the motor housing. > 2. Install a fill valve at the bottom of the motor housing. > 3. Attach a fill line (equipped with a pressure gauge) to the fill valve. > Purge all air from the fill line prior to attaching it to the valve. > 4. With the bleed valve open, fill the motor from the bottom until oil > discharges from the bleed valve. > 5. Turn the motor shaft by hand and vibrate the motor to release any > trapped air bubbles. Close the bleed valve and allow the motor to sit for a > couple of days undisturbed. > 6. Open the bleed valve and add more oil to drive any residual bubbles > out. Close the bleed valve while pressure is still being applied to the fill. > 7. Adjust the pressure from the oil pump to the desired pressure, then > close the fill valve. > 8. Release the pressure on the oil pump/fill line, then disconnect the > fill line. > > This seems logical to me, but I'd like to hear from the voice of > experience. Does 14 lb. seem like a reasonable differential pressure for set up? I > expect to start with new Minnkota motors, and I haven't addressed sticking > with the factory seals vs retrofit seals. My intended operational depth > is 300 feet. > > As always, comments and criticisms are eagerly invited. > > Thanks, > Jim ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:28 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oil compensation I found some comments that Carsten made about oil expansion & compensation. Someone was interested in hearing them if I found them. The thread was 5 Dec 2010. Alan Alan and the other gentlemens, our expierence with oil filled motors, batterys or even propeller shafts is that the oil expand if the motor is runing longer time. Simple because its warm up. We had that problem on Eurosub on the first dives. And on Euronaut we filled the bladder complet up and the get pretty hard in the hot summer just by sun heating the sub. A full filled bladder with over pressure creates a lot of interal pressure in the wrong direct - a lot of force for the bladder itself and hose work. Therefore our bladder are only half expand during the filling. But still free of any air. An other point is that the bladder has to be not to small. To create a slightly overpressure on the motorseal you just install the bladder below the motorcasing. But we found out that on trolling motor (electric outboards) this is not nessesary. There seals are good for some douzend feets at least - so you can install the bladder else were. Filling is simpler if the bladder is slightly over the motor - you can vent the system direct on the filling point. Another point is that we install now one bladder per motor - in the earlier sub (Sgt.Peppers) we install a central one for all motors. Hard to find a leak after a dive with all the T-crossing piepings and motorseals.. vbr Carsten _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 05:34:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:34:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers In-Reply-To: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Yes, the idea is to make ramps that the sub can be winched down off the trailer. Regards James On 22 July 2014 02:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > Love the rollers, they look real good. Are you going to have a tilting > track that the rollers run in? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 05:41:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:41:01 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oil compensation In-Reply-To: <1406019083.39650.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406017693.22024.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406019083.39650.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Carsten, Jim I think forwarded a message you sent in 2010 which had a picture. Its obviously an old link but do you have another copy you could send? Many thanks James http://www.euronaut.org/content/upload/notes/IMG_3321a.jpg On 22 July 2014 09:51, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > But wait there's more....below is a summary by Jim of advice for oil > compensating & Carsten's cynical > additional points. > Alan > > - *o*: > - *Subject*: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] illustration is this what you mean > sort of?? pressuriz... > - *From*: MerlinSub at t-online.de > - *Date*: 05 Dec 2010 09:43 GMT > - *Reply-to*: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > - *Sender*: owner-personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > ------------------------------ > > 9. Run the motor a half hour with the boat in the water and see may how the hot oil gets out of the weakest point by internal overpressure.. > 10. Switch of the motor and let the boat still in the water for two hours or so. > Open the engine the next weekend in you shop and found partly water in it because of the underpressure creates as the oil cool down.. > > The best for the seal is if it see no pressure differtial doesnt matter from which side. So logical the bladder has the same high as the motor. > A deeper installed bladder indicates a leak by oil getting out in the water, A higher install may not. > A higher installed bladder indicates maybe allready a leak onshore - and thats maybe the better solution. > > The best solution is that the hose work between using device and bladder is from clear material and has a loop higher than the user and the bladder. So air in the system can be easy spotted. > > See here: http://www.euronaut.org/content/upload/notes/IMG_3321a.jpg > > Euronaut has seven bladders on: > - Stern Thruster (oil) > - Bow Thruster (oil) > - Anchor winch motor (oil) > - Propeller shaft (oil) > - Void space frame cave between fwd.ballast tank and pressure hull (coolant water) > - Void space frame cave between aft.ballast tank and pressure hull (coolant water) > - One bag for all three fix rudder skegs (coolant water) > - Side Rudder and Stern deeprudder are also filled with c.water but without bags. > > See also the other mail I just send. > > vbr Carsten > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "This mail is shareware - for any tipp you find usefull please send a dollar." > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > schrieb: > > All, > > > > I'm having difficulty understanding the need for the bladder, and it seems > > like an additional complication and an additional point of vulnerability > > along with the line. How would this work: > > > > 1. Install a bleed valve at the uppermost point of the motor housing. > > 2. Install a fill valve at the bottom of the motor housing. > > 3. Attach a fill line (equipped with a pressure gauge) to the fill valve. > > Purge all air from the fill line prior to attaching it to the valve. > > 4. With the bleed valve open, fill the motor from the bottom until oil > > discharges from the bleed valve. > > 5. Turn the motor shaft by hand and vibrate the motor to release any > > trapped air bubbles. Close the bleed valve and allow the motor to sit for a > > couple of days undisturbed. > > 6. Open the bleed valve and add more oil to drive any residual bubbles > > out. Close the bleed valve while pressure is still being applied to the fill. > > 7. Adjust the pressure from the oil pump to the desired pressure, then > > close the fill valve. > > 8. Release the pressure on the oil pump/fill line, then disconnect the > > fill line. > > > > This seems logical to me, but I'd like to hear from the voice of > > experience. Does 14 lb. seem like a reasonable differential pressure for set up? I > > expect to start with new Minnkota motors, and I haven't addressed sticking > > with the factory seals vs retrofit seals. My intended operational depth > > is 300 feet. > > > > As always, comments and criticisms are eagerly invited. > > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* psubs.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:28 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] oil compensation > > I found some comments that Carsten made about oil expansion & compensation. > Someone was interested in hearing them if I found them. The thread was 5 > Dec 2010. > Alan > > Alan and the other gentlemens, > > our expierence with oil filled motors, batterys or even propeller shafts is that the oil expand if the motor is runing longer time. > Simple because its warm up. We had that problem on Eurosub on the first dives. > And on Euronaut we filled the bladder complet up and the get pretty hard in the hot summer just by sun heating the sub. > A full filled bladder with over pressure creates a lot of interal > pressure in the wrong direct - a lot of force for the bladder itself and hose work. > > Therefore our bladder are only half expand during the filling. But still free of any air. > An other point is that the bladder has to be not to small. > > To create a slightly overpressure on the motorseal you just install the bladder below the motorcasing. > But we found out that on trolling motor (electric outboards) this is not nessesary. There seals are good for some > douzend feets at least - so you can install the bladder else were. > Filling is simpler if the bladder is slightly over the motor - you can vent the system direct on the filling point. > > Another point is that we install now one bladder per motor - in the earlier sub (Sgt.Peppers) we install a central > one for all motors. Hard to find a leak after a dive with all the T-crossing piepings and motorseals.. > > vbr Carsten > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 08:08:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:08:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers In-Reply-To: References: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406030904.94934.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi James, I am worried about your set up with the rollers.? If I understand it, you will have a horizontal trailer deck with ramps on an angle to the ground.? With that many rollers it will be dangerous to transition from the horizontal deck to the angled ramps.? When the sub rolls back, eventually it will be at the balance point and tilt to match the ramp angle.? At the point the sub will be on only two rollers.? If the two rollers happen to be at the transition point where the deck meets the ramps, the sub will turn violently and I mean violently.? It could be dangerous.? There are?a few?solutions, you can make a tilting?track with C channel that tilts with the sub so all the wheels are in contact all the time.? Another solution is to use only four wheels, or best of all a tilt deck trailer.? I went with four large wheels on my cart for these reasons. With four wheels the sub is never at a tipping point.? Hank On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:34:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, Yes, the idea is to make ramps that the sub can be winched down off the trailer.? Regards James On 22 July 2014 02:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, >Love the rollers, they look real good.? Are you going to have a tilting track that the rollers run in?? >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 08:47:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:47:47 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers In-Reply-To: <1406030904.94934.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406030904.94934.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I was aware of the tilting issue. The plan is to have reasonably long ramps to minimise the tilt and also jack up the front of the trailer to meet the angle. That was why I was asking about hydraulic rams etc a week or so ago. In the end I think you suggested just jockey wheels which is what im going to go for. Well, that the idea but is always open to suggestions. Can you clarify your c channel tilting idea? Im not sure what you mean. Might be better? ps: The ramps are going to be c channel anyway to stop the boat sliding off sideways. On 22 July 2014 13:08, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > I am worried about your set up with the rollers. If I understand it, you > will have a horizontal trailer deck with ramps on an angle to the ground. > With that many rollers it will be dangerous to transition from the > horizontal deck to the angled ramps. When the sub rolls back, eventually > it will be at the balance point and tilt to match the ramp angle. At the > point the sub will be on only two rollers. If the two rollers happen to be > at the transition point where the deck meets the ramps, the sub will turn > violently and I mean violently. It could be dangerous. There are a > few solutions, you can make a tilting track with C channel that tilts with > the sub so all the wheels are in contact all the time. Another solution is > to use only four wheels, or best of all a tilt deck trailer. I went with > four large wheels on my cart for these reasons. With four wheels the sub is > never at a tipping point. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:34:36 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Yes, the idea is to make ramps that the sub can be winched down off the > trailer. > Regards > James > > > On 22 July 2014 02:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > Love the rollers, they look real good. Are you going to have a tilting > track that the rollers run in? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 09:02:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:02:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers In-Reply-To: References: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406030904.94934.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406034134.33677.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi James, Right I remember you asking about that now.? The problem with jacking up the front of the trailer is, if you disconnect from the tow vehicle, you got no way to hold her back properly.? My idea with the tilting C channel is to make the channels like a tilting deck.? The sub rolls back a bit and the balance point lets the C channels tip creating a tilting deck so to speak. Your ramps can extend from the C channels creating a long smooth ramp.? You would need a way to hold the tilting C channels from dropping out of control when the sub is completely off the trailer. You can possibly?hinge the C channels right behind the rear axel cross member thus making it very clean and compact. This can all be accomplished the same way that?a gravity tilt deck trailer works.? Hank On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:48:09 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I was aware of the tilting issue.? The plan is to have reasonably long ramps to minimise the tilt and also jack up the front of the trailer to meet the angle.? That was why I was asking about hydraulic rams etc a week or so ago.? In the end I think you suggested just jockey wheels which is what im going to go for.?? Well, that the idea but is always open to suggestions.? Can you clarify your c channel tilting idea?? Im not sure what you mean.? Might be better?? ps: The ramps are going to be c channel anyway to stop the boat sliding off sideways. On 22 July 2014 13:08, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, >I am worried about your set up with the rollers.? If I understand it, you will have a horizontal trailer deck with ramps on an angle to the ground.? With that many rollers it will be dangerous to transition from the horizontal deck to the angled ramps.? When the sub rolls back, eventually it will be at the balance point and tilt to match the ramp angle.? At the point the sub will be on only two rollers.? If the two rollers happen to be at the transition point where the deck meets the ramps, the sub will turn violently and I mean violently.? It could be dangerous.? There are?a few?solutions, you can make a tilting?track with C channel that tilts with the sub so all the wheels are in contact all the time.? Another solution is to use only four wheels, or best of all a tilt deck trailer.? I went with four large wheels on my cart for these reasons. With four wheels the sub is never at a tipping point.? >Hank > > > >On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:34:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Hi Hank, > >Yes, the idea is to make ramps that the sub can be winched down off the trailer.? >Regards >James > > > >On 22 July 2014 02:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >James, >>Love the rollers, they look real good.? Are you going to have a tilting track that the rollers run in?? >>Hank >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 09:41:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:41:13 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers In-Reply-To: <1406034134.33677.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406030904.94934.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406034134.33677.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank. I like it. Sounds like a potentially good idea. I'll give it a bit of thought and draw a few things up. Any suggestions\ideas from anyone welcome. Thanks James On 22 July 2014 14:02, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > Right I remember you asking about that now. The problem with jacking up > the front of the trailer is, if you disconnect from the tow vehicle, you > got no way to hold her back properly. > My idea with the tilting C channel is to make the channels like a tilting > deck. The sub rolls back a bit and the balance point lets the C channels > tip creating a tilting deck so to speak. Your ramps can extend from the C > channels creating a long smooth ramp. You would need a way to hold the > tilting C channels from dropping out of control when the sub is completely > off the trailer. > You can possibly hinge the C channels right behind the rear axel cross > member thus making it very clean and compact. > This can all be accomplished the same way that a gravity tilt deck trailer > works. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:48:09 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > I was aware of the tilting issue. The plan is to have reasonably long > ramps to minimise the tilt and also jack up the front of the trailer to > meet the angle. That was why I was asking about hydraulic rams etc a week > or so ago. In the end I think you suggested just jockey wheels which is > what im going to go for. Well, that the idea but is always open to > suggestions. Can you clarify your c channel tilting idea? > Im not sure what you mean. Might be better? > ps: The ramps are going to be c channel anyway to stop the boat sliding > off sideways. > > > > > > On 22 July 2014 13:08, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi James, > I am worried about your set up with the rollers. If I understand it, you > will have a horizontal trailer deck with ramps on an angle to the ground. > With that many rollers it will be dangerous to transition from the > horizontal deck to the angled ramps. When the sub rolls back, eventually > it will be at the balance point and tilt to match the ramp angle. At the > point the sub will be on only two rollers. If the two rollers happen to be > at the transition point where the deck meets the ramps, the sub will turn > violently and I mean violently. It could be dangerous. There are a > few solutions, you can make a tilting track with C channel that tilts with > the sub so all the wheels are in contact all the time. Another solution is > to use only four wheels, or best of all a tilt deck trailer. I went with > four large wheels on my cart for these reasons. With four wheels the sub is > never at a tipping point. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:34:36 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > Yes, the idea is to make ramps that the sub can be winched down off the > trailer. > Regards > James > > > On 22 July 2014 02:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > Love the rollers, they look real good. Are you going to have a tilting > track that the rollers run in? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 09:59:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:59:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <53cdf23e.a3ba440a.0c7c.ffff99da@mx.google.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405988829.40630.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cdf23e.a3ba440a.0c7c.ffff99da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1406037589.23707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ?Hugh this PRV with the built in pressure relief option looks like it would do the job.? On the Q-sub, what equipment are you using this pressure reducing regulator on for air pressure compensation?? I found these at Mscdirect for $245.54 for model PR364-02BSS.? Cliff ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 12:27 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? The Titan first stage is a Balanced Diaphragm Design.? I am not sure if it will have the hysteresis effect you discuss with your experience with using a balanced piston type 1st first stage.??Thanks for mentioning this hysteresis.? I will do some bench test to check.? As you did on your ambient boat, I can always add a?2nd stage if I need better ambient air pressure control for pressure compensation. ? Hugh, can you post the model and manufacturer of the pressure reducing regulator Alan is refereeing to? ? Rather than having a dedicated tank for compensation air, to keep it simple I was just going to run the air compensation regulator off the main ballast air supply.? I already have a pressure sensor on the HP air pressure and low pressure alarms.? I also have tank pressure sensor ?interlocked through the PLC with my flood ballast controls so that the pilot can not dive the boat if the air pressure in the tanks is less than 50% of max.? ? But in the?spirit of KISS, it is hard to argue with the simplicity of oil compensation with a flexible hose for these MD-101's. ? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? Cliff, I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage. You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors. Vance said he was involved?in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage.? However it's not known if this was from sea water?getting in through the seals or from poor filter systems for filling? the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to?2000 ft, so a lot of air is?going in to the motors & any moisture? in the air would probably drop out of suspension?& stay in the motor. I think they had been running for a couple of years & probably been sitting in water all the time. ? ?Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested. You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the? handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion & were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty. Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in case there is a leak & you deplete your? ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad) Cheers Alan ? ? ? ? From:Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? ? I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings.? The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient.? I need to do some bench testing.? I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. ? There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. ? Get some sleep. ? Cliff ? ? From:Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan? I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters.? I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom?near White Island! >? >If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, ?I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh?Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first?stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can ?but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure.?? ?Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve?and not the lip seal. >? >Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. >? >Cliff > > >? >? >From:Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >? >Hi Cliff & all, >thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff.? >I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. >Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 >would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. >Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to >give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent >bubble out of the seals. >? ?Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. >you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each >to stem air flow if there was a failure. >? ?Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans.? >(when I wake up) Have them somewhere. >Regards Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >>To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? >>? >>To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? >>? >>As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? >>? >>I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? >>? >>Cliff >>? >>? >>From:James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >>? >>Hi Cliff,, >>Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >>Thanks >>James >>? >> >>? >>? >>On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>Thanks >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>Hi Cliff, >>>? >>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>>? >>>Best, >>>? >>>Alec >>>? >>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>? >>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>? >>>Cliff >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>? >>>? >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >>? >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10132 (20140721) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 33808 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3993 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 10:00:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:00:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oil compensation In-Reply-To: <1406017693.22024.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406017693.22024.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406037658.89590.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan,? Thanks for digging these out. Cliff ? ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:28 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oil compensation I found some comments that Carsten made about oil expansion & compensation. Someone was interested in hearing them if I found them. The thread was 5 Dec 2010. Alan Alan and the other gentlemens, our expierence with oil filled motors, batterys or even propeller shafts is that the oil expand if the motor is runing longer time. Simple because its warm up. We had that problem on Eurosub on the first dives. And on Euronaut we filled the bladder complet up and the get pretty hard in the hot summer just by sun heating the sub. A full filled bladder with over pressure creates a lot of interal pressure in the wrong direct - a lot of force for the bladder itself and hose work. Therefore our bladder are only half expand during the filling. But still free of any air. An other point is that the bladder has to be not to small. To create a slightly overpressure on the motorseal you just install the bladder below the motorcasing. But we found out that on trolling motor (electric outboards) this is not nessesary. There seals are good for some douzend feets at least - so you can install the bladder else were. Filling is simpler if the bladder is slightly over the motor - you can vent the system direct on the filling point. Another point is that we install now one bladder per motor - in the earlier sub (Sgt.Peppers) we install a central one for all motors. Hard to find a leak after a dive with all the T-crossing piepings and motorseals.. vbr Carsten _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 10:35:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:35:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405993637.28062.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> <1405993637.28062.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53CE76AE.1060007@psubs.org> Cliff, if you cut the temp rise by two doesn't the volume displacement become 1.6 teaspoons? Regardless, I accept the need for a reservoir but it would seem the vinyl tube design would meet that role in the case of small MK motors and can be achieved via extra length or diameter. My memory of Alec's and Jim's configuration is that both have more than 3 teaspoons worth of extra volume in their tubes and perhaps this is why they haven't seen issues during dives. Jon On 7/21/2014 9:47 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Concur Jon that water will act as thermal sink and that the duty cycle > on the thrusters are not severe but I don't agree that the thermal > expansion in negligible. If you assume that the temperature change I > estimated was high by a factor of two, then you would still end up > with 3 teaspoons of oil that would be forced into the ambient tube. > Small but not negligible. There will be a change in the internal > temperature of the motor from the off position to on and given the > amount of oil in the 101 body, there will be oil that has to escape. > > Granted, the primary purpose of the compensation is to keep from > exposing the housing to a high differential pressure but thermal > expansion still has to be accounted for in sizing the ambient reservoir. > > These MK 101 are powerful at almost 1.8 HP at 47 amps when air filled > but there has to be some degradation in power when filled with > oil due to the viscosity difference with air. At 75F, light oil is > over 1800 times as viscous as air. IS there enough power to push a > psub about, sure. I am just trying to come up with what kind of HP > loss you get with oil compensation. > > Does anyone know what rpm these motors max out at in the water? > > Good point Vance on trying to make the armature as hydraulically > smooth as possible to maximize power when oil compensated. I wonder > how hard this would be to do? > > Cliff > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 11:50:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 08:50:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <53CE76AE.1060007@psubs.org> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CDB695.5010507@psubs.org> <1405993637.28062.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CE76AE.1060007@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406044209.71385.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes 1.6 teaspoons. Just looking at the 101instalations I have seen, I agree, vinyl ?length seems adequate for reservoir. Cliff ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, if you cut the temp rise by two doesn't the volume displacement become 1.6 teaspoons?? Regardless, I accept the need for a reservoir but it would seem the vinyl tube design would meet that role in the case of small MK motors and can be achieved via extra length or diameter.? My memory of Alec's and Jim's configuration is that both have more than 3 teaspoons worth of extra volume in their tubes and perhaps this is why they haven't seen issues during dives. Jon On 7/21/2014 9:47 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Concur Jon that water will act as thermal sink and that?the duty?cycle on the?thrusters are not severe but I don't agree that the thermal expansion in negligible.?If you assume that the temperature change I estimated was high by a factor of two, then you would still end up with 3 teaspoons of oil that would be forced into the ambient tube.? Small but not negligible.? There will be a change in the internal temperature of the motor from?the off position to on and given the amount of oil in the 101 body, there will be? oil that has to escape.? > > >Granted, the primary purpose of the compensation is to keep from exposing the housing to a high differential pressure but thermal expansion still has to be accounted for in sizing the ambient reservoir. > > >These?MK 101 are powerful at almost?1.8 HP at 47 amps when air filled ?but there has to be some degradation in power when filled with oil?due to the viscosity difference with air. At 75F, light oil is over 1800 times as viscous as air.?IS there enough power to push a psub about, sure.? ?I am just trying to come up with what kind of HP loss you get with oil compensation.? > > >Does anyone know what rpm these motors max out at in the water? > > >Good point Vance on trying to make the armature as hydraulically smooth as possible to maximize power when oil compensated.? I wonder how hard this would be to do? > > >Cliff > > >? > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 16:29:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:29:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1406037589.23707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405988829.40630.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cdf23e.a3ba440a.0c7c.ffff99da@mx.google.com> <1406037589.23707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53cec9c8.8a44440a.5ab6.04f0@mx.google.com> Hi Cliff, These are NZ dollars. List is $228.00. My buy is $114.00 per unit. (About $100 USD) I get them direct from Parker. I am using the regs on the Mercruiser drive bellows and the pneumatic actuator Cylinders, spring return side. I am setting at 5 psi. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 2:00 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hugh this PRV with the built in pressure relief option looks like it would do the job. On the Q-sub, what equipment are you using this pressure reducing regulator on for air pressure compensation? I found these at Mscdirect for $245.54 for model PR364-02BSS. Cliff From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 12:27 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec The Titan first stage is a Balanced Diaphragm Design. I am not sure if it will have the hysteresis effect you discuss with your experience with using a balanced piston type 1st first stage. Thanks for mentioning this hysteresis. I will do some bench test to check. As you did on your ambient boat, I can always add a 2nd stage if I need better ambient air pressure control for pressure compensation. Hugh, can you post the model and manufacturer of the pressure reducing regulator Alan is refereeing to? Rather than having a dedicated tank for compensation air, to keep it simple I was just going to run the air compensation regulator off the main ballast air supply. I already have a pressure sensor on the HP air pressure and low pressure alarms. I also have tank pressure sensor interlocked through the PLC with my flood ballast controls so that the pilot can not dive the boat if the air pressure in the tanks is less than 50% of max. But in the spirit of KISS, it is hard to argue with the simplicity of oil compensation with a flexible hose for these MD-101's. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage. You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors. Vance said he was involved in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage. However it's not known if this was from sea water getting in through the seals or from poor filter systems for filling the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to 2000 ft, so a lot of air is going in to the motors & any moisture in the air would probably drop out of suspension & stay in the motor. I think they had been running for a couple of years & probably been sitting in water all the time. Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested. You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion & were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty. Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in case there is a leak & you deplete your ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad) Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings. The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient. I need to do some bench testing. I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. Get some sleep. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters. I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom near White Island! If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure. Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve and not the lip seal. Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff & all, thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff. I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent bubble out of the seals. Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each to stem air flow if there was a failure. Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans. (when I wake up) Have them somewhere. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, a couple of points. First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug. The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation. I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body. The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped. To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large. If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101 ( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F. Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons). To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts. Lip seals are design to take external pressure. They re not designed to take internal pressure. So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy. As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water. MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety. So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point. Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft. Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat starts to descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast. To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air. As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures. I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats. Cliff From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff,, Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion. If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest, adding a vent hole somewhere near the aft bearing. With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok. But, I just cannot get the last dregs of air out. No matter what I do. I suspect that its because the pipe nipple protrudes a mm or so into the casing and so will not allow the last bit of air out. It really irritates me and I worry that the motor is not properly compensated. So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic. I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case. I think a large rubber washer should seal it. The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air. What do you think? Thanks James ? On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff Redus On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. Best, Alec On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter. I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch. I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes is a 1-1/8 UNEF (Extra fine thread series). The major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649" respectively. Can anyone confirm this? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10132 (20140721) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10135 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10137 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 33808 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3993 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 18:54:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:54:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of the O2 SLPM?flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 21:14:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:14:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 21:29:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:29:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensation In-Reply-To: <53cec9c8.8a44440a.5ab6.04f0@mx.google.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405988829.40630.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cdf23e.a3ba440a.0c7c.ffff99da@mx.google.com> <1406037589.23707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cec9c8.8a44440a.5ab6.04f0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1406078997.91743.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, I bought 2 Festo polymer regulators LR-1/4-DB-7-MINI. They are cheap at NZ $50- list price. I couldn't find a suitable replacement stainless spring for them so put them on the shelf for a while. I was looking to replace the winding mechanism that sets the spring pressure, with stainless, but also couldn't find anything suitable. In hindsight this mechanism could be replaced by packing with a number of plastic washers to get the right spring tension. These units are piston type, so not as sensitive as Hugh's find, which are diaphragm type. This difference could be important as the backpressure releif pressure may be too high on the Festo.? That said Karl Stanley has been?letting his overpressure build up till it vents through his propeller shaft seals. Still a bit of research & experimentation to be done with this one. Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff,? ? These are NZ dollars. List is $228.00. My buy is $114.00 per unit. (About $100 USD) I get them direct from Parker. I am using the regs on the Mercruiser drive bellows and the pneumatic actuator Cylinders, spring return side. I am setting at 5 psi.? ? Hugh ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 2:00 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ?Hugh this PRV with the built in pressure relief option looks like it would do the job.? On the Q-sub, what equipment are you using this pressure reducing regulator on for air pressure compensation?? I found these at Mscdirect for $245.54 for model PR364-02BSS.? ? Cliff ? ? From:Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 12:27 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? The Titan first stage is a Balanced Diaphragm Design.? I am not sure if it will have the hysteresis effect you discuss with your experience with using a balanced piston type 1st first stage.??Thanks for mentioning this hysteresis.? I will do some bench test to check.? As you did on your ambient boat, I can always add a?2nd stage if I need better ambient air pressure control for pressure compensation. ? Hugh, can you post the model and manufacturer of the pressure reducing regulator Alan is refereeing to? ? Rather than having a dedicated tank for compensation air, to keep it simple I was just going to run the air compensation regulator off the main ballast air supply.? I already have a pressure sensor on the HP air pressure and low pressure alarms.? I also have tank pressure sensor ?interlocked through the PLC with my flood ballast controls so that the pilot can not dive the boat if the air pressure in the tanks is less than 50% of max.? ? But in the?spirit of KISS, it is hard to argue with the simplicity of oil compensation with a flexible hose for these MD-101's. ? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? Cliff, I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage. You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors. Vance said he was involved?in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage.? However it's not known if this was from sea water?getting in through the seals or from poor filter systems for filling? the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to?2000 ft, so a lot of air is?going in to the motors & any moisture? in the air would probably drop out of suspension?& stay in the motor. I think they had been running for a couple of years & probably been sitting in water all the time. ? ?Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested. You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the? handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion & were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty. Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in case there is a leak & you deplete your? ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad) Cheers Alan ? ? ? ? From:Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? ? I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings.? The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient.? I need to do some bench testing.? I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. ? There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. ? Get some sleep. ? Cliff ? ? From:Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan? I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters.? I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom?near White Island! >? >If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, ?I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh?Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first?stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can ?but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure.?? ?Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve?and not the lip seal. >? >Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. >? >Cliff >? >? >From:Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >? >Hi Cliff & all, >thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff.? >I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. >Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 >would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. >Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to >give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent >bubble out of the seals. >? ?Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. >you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each >to stem air flow if there was a failure. >? ?Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans.? >(when I wake up) Have them somewhere. >Regards Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >>To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? >>? >>To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? >>? >>As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? >>? >>I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? >>? >>Cliff >>? >>? >>From:James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >>? >>Hi Cliff,, >>Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >>Thanks >>James >>? >> >>? >>? >>On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>Thanks >>Cliff Redus >> >>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>Hi Cliff, >>>? >>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>>? >>>Best, >>>? >>>Alec >>>? >>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>? >>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>? >>>Cliff >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>? >>>? >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >>? >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10132 (20140721) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10135 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10137 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10137 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 22:10:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:10:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensation In-Reply-To: <1406078997.91743.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <97a1d.69a092df.40f9d4d6@aol.com> <1405653770.74606.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405728259.16226.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5E54D735-BC07-4F83-B84F-69DA91547987@sbcglobal.net> <1405952523.97050.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405964411.79898.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <46F41963-26FB-4677-B89E-58D8AB65C7E2@yahoo.com> <1405978295.68293.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405982807.1954.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405988829.40630.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cdf23e.a3ba440a.0c7c.ffff99da@mx.google.com> <1406037589.23707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cec9c8.8a44440a.5ab6.04f0@mx.google.com> <1406078997.91743.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406081448.16919.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I like the PR364-02BSS that Hugh found.? As you said in an earlier post, just install this upside down to keep water out when your are ascending and the back pressure venting through the device.? I would supply this from my existing scuba single stage so it would be an easy change for me. Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:29 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensation Cliff, I bought 2 Festo polymer regulators LR-1/4-DB-7-MINI. They are cheap at NZ $50- list price. I couldn't find a suitable replacement stainless spring for them so put them on the shelf for a while. I was looking to replace the winding mechanism that sets the spring pressure, with stainless, but also couldn't find anything suitable. In hindsight this mechanism could be replaced by packing with a number of plastic washers to get the right spring tension. These units are piston type, so not as sensitive as Hugh's find, which are diaphragm type. This difference could be important as the backpressure releif pressure may be too high on the Festo.? That said Karl Stanley has been?letting his overpressure build up till it vents through his propeller shaft seals. Still a bit of research & experimentation to be done with this one. Cheers Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Hi Cliff,? ? These are NZ dollars. List is $228.00. My buy is $114.00 per unit. (About $100 USD) I get them direct from Parker. I am using the regs on the Mercruiser drive bellows and the pneumatic actuator Cylinders, spring return side. I am setting at 5 psi.? ? Hugh ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 2:00 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ?Hugh this PRV with the built in pressure relief option looks like it would do the job.? On the Q-sub, what equipment are you using this pressure reducing regulator on for air pressure compensation?? I found these at Mscdirect for $245.54 for model PR364-02BSS.? ? Cliff ? ? From:Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 12:27 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? The Titan first stage is a Balanced Diaphragm Design.? I am not sure if it will have the hysteresis effect you discuss with your experience with using a balanced piston type 1st first stage.??Thanks for mentioning this hysteresis.? I will do some bench test to check.? As you did on your ambient boat, I can always add a?2nd stage if I need better ambient air pressure control for pressure compensation. ? Hugh, can you post the model and manufacturer of the pressure reducing regulator Alan is refereeing to? ? Rather than having a dedicated tank for compensation air, to keep it simple I was just going to run the air compensation regulator off the main ballast air supply.? I already have a pressure sensor on the HP air pressure and low pressure alarms.? I also have tank pressure sensor ?interlocked through the PLC with my flood ballast controls so that the pilot can not dive the boat if the air pressure in the tanks is less than 50% of max.? ? But in the?spirit of KISS, it is hard to argue with the simplicity of oil compensation with a flexible hose for these MD-101's. ? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? Cliff, I am not sure of the workings of the Titan, but I did some experimentation with a balanced piston type 1st stage. You just open it up & take the spring out & you have ambient pressure. It wasn't as accurate as a 2nd stage for maintaining ambience. I think it needed to go a foot or so under water to open up & then from memory there was more overpressure than I wanted. On my ambient sub I have a couple of $90- 2nd stage octopus regulators mounted lower than the motors. Vance said he was involved?in taking Karls motors apart & they had a bit of moisture damage.? However it's not known if this was from sea water?getting in through the seals or from poor filter systems for filling? the scuba tanks. He was taking these motors down to?2000 ft, so a lot of air is?going in to the motors & any moisture? in the air would probably drop out of suspension?& stay in the motor. I think they had been running for a couple of years & probably been sitting in water all the time. ? ?Hugh found a good stainless regulator reasonably priced. You will have to ask him for the details if interested. You need to mount these pressure regulators upside down, as the hole for exhaust & ambient equalization is in the? handle & mounting it this way will stop water getting in the valve area when it opens. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket by trying to compensate all motors off the one system. If you lost all propulsion & were being washed on to rocks it could be nasty. Another thought is to put a low air pressure alarm on your plc for the monitoring of your air tanks, in case there is a leak & you deplete your? ballast / compensating air, or in case you forget to turn your air tanks on at the bottle. (that would be bad) Cheers Alan ? ? ? ? From:Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? ? ? I have a spare Aqualung Titan first stage regulator that I can use to pressure compensate all four MK-101's so I would just need one small pressure relief valve and some SS tubing and Swagelok fittings.? The key to me is can the regulator set screw be backed out to the point of getting less than one psi over ambient.? I need to do some bench testing.? I like using scuba first state as is built for seawater. ? There is a lot of ways to skin this cat. ? Get some sleep. ? Cliff ? ? From:Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec ? Cliff, No worries, Hugh will have 2 subs to rescue me with by the time mine is finished. The beauty of Hugh's regulator method is it exhausts the overpressure, & a hole in the handle enables the system to maintain your set pressure above ambient. I bought a cheap fibre reinforced plastic regulator with the back pressure exhaust function for compensating, but there were a few springs & bits that needed replacing with stainless. Another option may be to oil compensate & use 1 regulator to pressurise all motors. Just design it so that if the regulator or air lines failed, the compensating oil wouldn't float out & would keep the motor pressurised at ambient. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/07/2014, at 5:40 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan? I am glad your not advocating abandoning pressure compensation on your thrusters.? I would sure hate to have to fly to New Zealand and rescue your skinny ass off the bottom?near White Island! >? >If I use air to pressure compensate by MK-101's, ?I would use a variation of what Karl Stanley and Hugh?Fulton are doing, i.e., use a scuba first?stage regulator with the spring fully back out to get as close to ambient water pressure as I can ?but rather than letting air leak out the lip seal on ascent use an OTS ball style pressure relief valve with a 0.5 psi cracking pressure.?? ?Would need to play around with the amount of cracking pressure and the screw setting on the first stage to make sure it vents through the valve?and not the lip seal. >? >Agree, it would be good to get the Europeans experience on oil vs air pressure compensation of trolling motors. >? >Cliff >? >? >From:Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >? >Hi Cliff & all, >thanks for the expansion calculations Cliff.? >I wasn't advocating using the 101s without compensation. >Just saying that they may not fail with the tube method because 3 out of 4 >would operate down to 100ft with no compensation anyway. >Karl Stanley uses a first stage divers regulator with the spring removed to >give ambient air pressure to his motors; & just lets the over pressure on ascent >bubble out of the seals. >? ?Hugh had the idea of using a pressure regulator that has back pressure relief. >you just dial in an over-pressure of air to the motors. The stainless ones cost a couple of hundred each & you would probably need one on each motor + valves for each >to stem air flow if there was a failure. >? ?Will try & dig up the negative comments on oil compensation made by the Europeans.? >(when I wake up) Have them somewhere. >Regards Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >On 22/07/2014, at 2:22 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >>To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? >>? >>To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? >>? >>As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? >>? >>I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? >>? >>Cliff >>? >>? >>From:James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 4:17 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >>? >>Hi Cliff,, >>Others may disagree with this, but ive got a suggestion.? If your oil compensating the motors and are going to add the wrap around tube\bladder as per?Alecs Snoopy, I would suggest,?adding a vent hole somewhere?near the?aft bearing.??With my setup, ive put the tube going around the motor and its all ok.? But, I just cannot?get the last dregs of air out.? No matter what I do.? I suspect that its because the?pipe nipple protrudes a mm?or so into the casing and so will not allow the last?bit of air out.? It really irritates me and?I worry that the motor is not properly compensated.? So, I am going to make a modification to the motor like this pic.? I think this will work, the suspect bit is mating the plug against the slightly domed motor case.? I think a large rubber washer should?seal it.?? The i should be able to rotate the motor and remove the last dregs of air.? What do you think? >>Thanks >>James >>? >> >>? >>? >>On 19 July 2014 01:38, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>Thanks >>Cliff Redus >> >>On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>Hi Cliff, >>>? >>>It is a parallel thread, 1 1/8" - 18. >>>? >>>Best, >>>? >>>Alec >>>? >>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>?Does anyone have any documentation on the Minn Kota 101 main support female thread spec?? It does not look like a tapered pipe thread and the threads per inch look to great. I put a digital caliper on this at it?read 1.064-1.07 inches for the minor diameter.? I measured the threads and it is 18 threads per inch.? ? I looked in the machine handbook and the closest that comes?is a 1-1/8 ?UNEF (Extra fine thread series).? The?major and minor diameters for a 1-1/8" UNEF are 1.1250" and 1.0649"? respectively. >>>? >>>Can anyone confirm this? >>>? >>>Cliff >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>? >>>? >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >>? >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>? >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10132 (20140721) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10133 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10135 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10137 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10137 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 22:30:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec. While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element. You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input. I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf This sensor will handle 0-25%. The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232. All PLCs will have a RS232 port. I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok. With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This regulator reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure downstream of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter. The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig. This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal of the O2 SLPM flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list. I have been very happy with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%. ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is scrubbing the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough. At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 22 23:34:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:34:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R500.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 43563 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 00:04:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:04:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406088277.86173.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, it looks like a "Telly Tubby". Dipsy was the green one. How do you launch it & get in? Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 01:47:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:47:03 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53cf4c5c.6d45440a.7ae4.35cb@mx.google.com> Well, that is an interesting concept. Looks like you plan on some wreck diving with it. Have you got a seat in it? How far out of the water will the hatch be? Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 3:34 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator I am working on two projects, the first is some mods to the R300. I have come to the conclusion that speed is an illusion for the mud holes of Texas. I am pulling the jet pump and drive train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's. Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability. Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a 1-atm, I person ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position . Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB. Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. 22" x 4" thick flat acrylic main viewport, three 8" side viewprots. Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal. Three axis joy stick. See attached pic. Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT. Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention. Life support for 72 hours. Just finished all the electrical design, working on electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod. FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights. Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300. Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec. While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element. You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input. I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf This sensor will handle 0-25%. The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232. All PLCs will have a RS232 port. I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok. With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-mod ule Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This regulator reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure downstream of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter. The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig. This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal of the O2 SLPM flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list. I have been very happy with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%. ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is scrubbing the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough. At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10138 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 01:56:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:56:58 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> Hi Cliff, I have just done some LED?s. 50 watt and 150 watt. Can supply the lens LED and controller. Chs, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 3:34 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator I am working on two projects, the first is some mods to the R300. I have come to the conclusion that speed is an illusion for the mud holes of Texas. I am pulling the jet pump and drive train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's. Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability. Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a 1-atm, I person ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position . Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB. Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. 22" x 4" thick flat acrylic main viewport, three 8" side viewprots. Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal. Three axis joy stick. See attached pic. Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT. Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention. Life support for 72 hours. Just finished all the electrical design, working on electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod. FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights. Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300. Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec. While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element. You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input. I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf This sensor will handle 0-25%. The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232. All PLCs will have a RS232 port. I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok. With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-mod ule Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This regulator reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure downstream of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter. The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig. This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal of the O2 SLPM flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list. I have been very happy with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%. ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is scrubbing the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough. At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10138 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 06:04:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:04:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] high power led lights Message-ID: Hello Hugh, I could be interested in high power LED lights for use in flash mode (so temperature much less of a constraint) for my Pilot Fish Project. Do you use pre-made LED arrays or making the arrays yourself? regards Antoine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 08:11:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D174866CB4459D-C98-1CDB5@webmail-vm066.sysops.aol.com> Interesting. I'd love to see a common controller for that thruster package, as it is pretty much what I plan for my K-350. I've sketched out a mod on the top hat valve that uses a truncated aluminum cone with o-rings rather than the flat gaskets. If it works, I'll shoot you a copy of the finished product. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 11:34 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator I am working on two projects, the first is some mods to the R300. I have come to the conclusion that speed is an illusion for the mud holes of Texas. I am pulling the jet pump and drive train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's. Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability. Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a 1-atm, I person ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position . Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB. Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. 22" x 4" thick flat acrylic main viewport, three 8" side viewprots. Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal. Three axis joy stick. See attached pic. Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT. Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention. Life support for 72 hours. Just finished all the electrical design, working on electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod. FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights. Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300. Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec. While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element. You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input. I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf This sensor will handle 0-25%. The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232. All PLCs will have a RS232 port. I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok. With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM Hank On the R300, I have life support module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 with a whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This regulator reduces the pressure to around 5 psig. The pressure downstream of the regulator is adjustable with a maximum rate of 15 SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port. Downstream of this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter. The model number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal. Max pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig. This O2 controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal of the O2 SLPM flow rate. Both these items were purchased on Ebay at a fraction of list. I have been very happy with the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens and closes this controller to keep the cabin O2 % between 19-22%. ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is that it automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions rates for O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both main and back up power are lost, the pilot can manually adjust the O2 rate into the boat. The second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin is scrubbing the CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter did not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ppm. Part of the problem was the axial filter arrangement and part of the problem was the blower was not strong enough. At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that is used to clean air. In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has worked much better. It consistently keeps the CO2 level below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ppm. ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is works better is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a stronger blower. Long answer to short question. Cliff On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I need to find a pediatric flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is there something better?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 08:32:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:32:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406088277.86173.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406088277.86173.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406118747.92874.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Or in the states, the Michelin man painted lime green!?? Launch three ways: Davits of dock or barge, boat trailer with witched cable or from pontoon party boat. Access from top hatch prior to launch.? In emergency, can get out?when surfaced.? Freeboard is 18" which put the waterline mid way point of bow viewport. Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, it looks like a "Telly Tubby". Dipsy was the green one. How do you launch it & get in? Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module%C2%A0Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 08:40:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:40:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <53cf4c5c.6d45440a.7ae4.35cb@mx.google.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4c5c.6d45440a.7ae4.35cb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1406119251.1973.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Wreck diving and a photography platform.? Small bicycle style seat that folds down.? Boat has a ROB of 30%.? Freeboard is 18".? 9" split between CB and GC so very stable.?? Conventional AGM batteries for now but if I get brave in the future, may switch to Lithium.? For now, I am trying to keep the cost of the boat down. Cliff ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Well, that is? an interesting concept.? Looks like you plan on some wreck diving with it. Have you got a seat in it?? How far out of the water will the hatch be? ? Cheers,? Hugh ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 3:34 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. ? The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? ? Need to retire again to work on this. ? ? Cliff ? ? From:via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? New boat? ? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. ? For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. ? http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. ? Cliff ? ? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10138 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 08:47:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:47:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Last fall I was approached by some ME students looking for a senior project and mentor for their BS ME senior design project. Got the team working on a low cost, very compact (size of an apple)?24vdc 5000 lumen LED using off the shelf array and controller and packaging for 500 fsw.? Team is coming along nicely but slow as hell.? Should be ready for testing in a few months.? They are also designing a automated test chamber controlled by a PLC.? If I were not locked into this LED path, would be knocking on your door.?Thanks for the offer. ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Hi Cliff, I have just done some LED?s. 50 watt and 150 watt. Can supply the lens LED and controller. ? Chs,? Hugh From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 3:34 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. ? The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? ? Need to retire again to work on this. ? ? Cliff ? ? From:via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? New boat? ? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. ? For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. ? http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. ? Cliff ? ? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10138 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 08:52:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:52:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, Now that new sub is neat.? Just a thought, you could add a couple of VBT's on the back end of you battery pods.? This would give you the opportunity to go horizontal to get up close to an object.? An excavator arm is always to short, a crane can never lift enough and a submarine window is never close enough :-) Hank On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:48:15 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Last fall I was approached by some ME students looking for a senior project and mentor for their BS ME senior design project. Got the team working on a low cost, very compact (size of an apple)?24vdc 5000 lumen LED using off the shelf array and controller and packaging for 500 fsw.? Team is coming along nicely but slow as hell.? Should be ready for testing in a few months.? They are also designing a automated test chamber controlled by a PLC.? If I were not locked into this LED path, would be knocking on your door.?Thanks for the offer. ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Hi Cliff, I have just done some LED?s. 50 watt and 150 watt. Can supply the lens LED and controller. ? Chs,? Hugh From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 3:34 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. ? The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? ? Need to retire again to work on this. ? ? Cliff ? ? From:via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? New boat? ? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. ? For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. ? http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. ? Cliff ? ? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10138 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 08:54:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:54:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <8D174866CB4459D-C98-1CDB5@webmail-vm066.sysops.aol.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D174866CB4459D-C98-1CDB5@webmail-vm066.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1406120083.30116.YahooMailNeo@web181202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Love to see it.? The issue with common controller is everyone uses the thrusters and input devices a little bit different.? The nice thing about a PLC is with a little?rewriting of the ladder logic, it is pretty easy to accommodate different thruster functions and input devices. Cliff ? ________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Interesting. I'd love to see a common controller for that thruster package, as it is pretty much what I plan for my K-350. I've sketched out a mod on the top hat valve that uses a truncated aluminum cone with o-rings rather than the flat gaskets. If it works, I'll shoot you a copy of the finished product. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 11:34 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 09:34:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:34:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I played around with a lot of techniques to do just that including having a VBT aft but was never happy with the?issues this caused.? First it complicates things.?I am trying to make the operation of the boat dirt simple.? I have no VBT, just ballast up prior to dive like a diver.? The ballast control concept?is stolen off the Deepworker 2000, i.e., handle with a red knob that connects to a Swagelok 3-way valve.? When the handle is moved up, air is directed to BT and the boat goes up, when the handle is moved down, air is directed to soft pneumatic cylinder that strokes the vent valves (after Vance's design) and the boat goes down and when the handle is level?no valve is closed.? VBT function for depth keeping is replace with vertical thruster (after the way Alec does it with Snoopy).? Depending on dive objective, diver can weight up to be either slightly positive or slightly negative after BT is flooded.? ABS rules say no mercury which would have made it?easy to move a lot weight?from one point to anther.? ?If you use a aft mounted VBT to try and rotate the boat by adding air, you also generate added buoyancy which you would have to null out by having another VBT to take on water.? Also I wanted to keep the split between CB and CG as great as possible for vertical stability both in the water column and on the surface if the pilot has to get out in an emergency. Bottom line is yes it would be nice to pitch forward in the water column but in the sprit of KISS and trying to keep the cost low, I have abandoned this feature. Cliff ________________________________ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, Now that new sub is neat.? Just a thought, you could add a couple of VBT's on the back end of you battery pods.? This would give you the opportunity to go horizontal to get up close to an object.? An excavator arm is always to short, a crane can never lift enough and a submarine window is never close enough :-) Hank On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:48:15 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Last fall I was approached by some ME students looking for a senior project and mentor for their BS ME senior design project. Got the team working on a low cost, very compact (size of an apple)?24vdc 5000 lumen LED using off the shelf array and controller and packaging for 500 fsw.? Team is coming along nicely but slow as hell.? Should be ready for testing in a few months.? They are also designing a automated test chamber controlled by a PLC.? If I were not locked into this LED path, would be knocking on your door.?Thanks for the offer. ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Hi Cliff, I have just done some LED?s. 50 watt and 150 watt. Can supply the lens LED and controller. ? Chs,? Hugh From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2014 3:34 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. ? The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? ? Need to retire again to work on this. ? ? Cliff ? ? From:via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? New boat? ? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. ? For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. ? http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. ? Cliff ? ? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10138 (20140722) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10139 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 09:58:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:58:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> Added to submarine database, see http://www.subdb.info/R-500 From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 11:33:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:33:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> What the process for being able to edit these sub data base entries? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Added to submarine database, see http://www.subdb.info/R-500 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 15:51:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:51:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D01254.60404@psubs.org> www.subdb.info -> Support -> Log In Use your PSUBS member user-id and password. Let me know if you have any problems. Jon On 7/23/2014 11:33 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > What the process for being able to edit these sub data base entries? > Cliff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 16:53:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:53:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 19:08:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:08:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406156890.51896.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300?and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 19:09:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:09:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300?and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 19:44:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:44:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406159044.39258.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, Understood, I love the KISS principal also.? My idea was actually to transfer water from one tank to another so as to not change the buoyancy.? I sure love the design, and it will be very comfortable.? I did find when diving my red and white sub that I was always pressed up against the front port trying to look ahead and down.? You have solved that! Hank On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:09:30 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300?and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 19:41:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:41:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, that manual you added is great. A lot of work. Thanks for adding it. I blew up some of the images including the systems diagram, & they came? out nice & clear. Here's the direct link for those interested. http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manual Alan. ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300?and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 20:11:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:11:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406160690.6301.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Cliff, Thanks for posting the PDF's on Subdb. I seem to remember the Powerpoint presentation you gave in Muskegon being on the Psubs website. Am I mistaken? I can't find it. What is the model of the PCL you are using? One last question for the group. Any links to information about the Q-Sub? Thanks Pete P.S. It seems like the list as come back with a vengeance since being down. I lot of recent post have gone into my "Meat" folder. :) ------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/23/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2014, 4:41 PM Cliff,that manual you added is great. A lot of work. Thanks for adding it.I blew up some of the images including the systems diagram, & they came?out nice & clear.Here's the direct link for those interested.http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manualAlan. From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300?and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 20:47:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:47:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406160690.6301.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406160690.6301.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406162855.23038.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Pete, not sure where the presentation I did on life support at the 2012 convention got posted so I uploaded it to the SubDB site under R-300 - Owners Manual.? There is no other header to upload "Other files", so I uploaded it as Owners Manual. The PLC is covered in the presentation on page 23 but it is a Automation direct DL-205.? This company has excellent tech support and dirt cheap hardware compared with the big boys like Allen Bradley or Siemens.? I will use the same PLC for the R500 but I will upgrade the CPU module. Q-Sub?? http://www.q-subs.com/about-us.asp Cliff From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, Thanks for posting the PDF's on Subdb. I seem to remember the Powerpoint presentation you gave in Muskegon being on the Psubs website. Am I mistaken? I can't find it. What is the model of the PCL you are using? One last question for the group. Any links to information about the Q-Sub? Thanks Pete P.S. It seems like the list as come back with a vengeance since being down. I lot of recent post have gone into my "Meat" folder. :) ------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/23/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2014, 4:41 PM Cliff,that manual you added is great. A lot of work. Thanks for adding ? it.I blew up some of the images including the systems diagram, & they came?out nice & clear.Here's the direct link for those interested.http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manualAlan. ? ? ? ? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:09 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 ? ? Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300?and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 ? ? Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 21:20:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:20:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Message-ID: <1406164800.35971.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, what about incorporating some sought of simple tractor track driven by electrics, around the battery pods. See attachment. (I am being serious) It seems, as is, you would be really restricted as to where you could launch. You would need quite a depth of water & support crew. The tractor tracks would really open it up as to where you could operate from. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: underwater tractor.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 97212 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 21:48:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:48:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Message-ID: <1406166481.29469.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Speaking of Muskegon. Pete -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/23/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 To: "psubs.org" Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2014, 6:20 PM Cliff,what about incorporating some sought of simple tractor track driven by electrics, around the battery pods.See attachment. (I am being serious)It seems, as is, you would be really restricted as to where you could launch. You wouldneed quite a depth of water & support crew. The tractor tracks would really open it up as to where youcould operate from.Alan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: New Folder.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 132421 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 21:48:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:48:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406164800.35971.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406164800.35971.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406166492.9013.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I will give it some thought. Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:20 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, what about incorporating some sought of simple tractor track driven by electrics, around the battery pods. See attachment. (I am being serious) It seems, as is, you would be really restricted as to where you could launch. You would need quite a depth of water & support crew. The tractor tracks would really open it up as to where you could operate from. Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 23 23:21:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:21:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406162855.23038.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406160690.6301.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406162855.23038.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D07BBA.1010207@psubs.org> Cliff, functionality is there, just not obvious. In the pop-up window that appears when uploading a document, look at the top and you'll see a page-icon with a "T" in it as well as a blank page-icon. Click on the BLANK page-icon and it will give you the option of creating your own title. The "T" icon is suppose to represent pre-titled or standardized documents such as "owner manual", "operating manual", etc. You can toggle between creating pre-titled documents and self-titled documents by clicking on the page-icons at the top of that pop-up window. Video links are not working. I'll need to look at that to see why. Jon On 7/23/2014 8:47 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Pete, not sure where the presentation I did on life support at the > 2012 convention got posted so I uploaded it to the SubDB site under > R-300 - Owners Manual. There is no other header to upload "Other > files", so I uploaded it as Owners Manual. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 07:51:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:51:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive Message-ID: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub.? We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch.? This idea would be the ultimate system.? The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries.? I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack.? Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect.? The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub.? Then there is the cost, think big!? :-)??? It would be the ultimate though! Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 08:22:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:22:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <53D07BBA.1010207@psubs.org> References: <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406160690.6301.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406162855.23038.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D07BBA.1010207@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406204547.57861.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> OK, I was able to add Life Support presentation with its own title.? This page needs a link to help screen.? Thanks Cliff ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, functionality is there, just not obvious. In the pop-up window that appears? when uploading a document, look at the top and you'll see a page-icon with a "T" in it as well as a blank page-icon.? Click on the BLANK page-icon and it will give you the option of creating your own title.? The "T" icon is suppose to represent pre-titled or standardized documents such as "owner manual", "operating manual", etc.? You can toggle between creating pre-titled documents and self-titled documents by clicking on the page-icons at the top of that pop-up window. Video links are not working.? I'll need to look at that to see why. Jon On 7/23/2014 8:47 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Pete, not sure where the presentation I did on life support at the 2012 convention got posted so I uploaded it to the SubDB site under R-300 - Owners Manual.? There is no other header to upload "Other files", so I uploaded it as Owners Manual. > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 08:22:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:22:45 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: check out this tracked monster. http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/smd-ltd/intervention-underwater-rovs-maximum-depth-1000-m-40164-317069.html On 24 July 2014 12:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on > a sub. We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to > launch. This idea would be the ultimate system. The problem is, if it > were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on > your batteries. I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor > hyd power pack. Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect. > The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could > weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub. Then there is the cost, > think big! :-) It would be the ultimate though! > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 08:27:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 00:27:55 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I was thinking of the rubber tracks. Maybe rollers running round the battery pod with the drive wheel on top. would it be that heavy on the battery if you only spent 10 minutes going from the trailer to the water & back again ? If you think of mobility scooters; they have a range of 30 miles on a 55 ah battery. would be cool to be able to beach launch a sub. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/07/2014, at 11:51 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub. We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch. This idea would be the ultimate system. The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries. I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack. Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect. The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub. Then there is the cost, think big! :-) It would be the ultimate though! > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 08:39:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:39:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406205585.50643.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, The battery draw is a function of both speed and weight you are carrying. ? Remember a scooter is 400 lbs with driver.? Also tracks take a lot of power to turn, especially a rubber track, without any weight.? Then think of the power it would take to climb the ramps.? Believe me, I wanted to?try this, I was going to borrow tracks off one of my excavators.? It is simply more trouble than benefit. Hank On Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:27:55 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I was thinking of the rubber tracks. Maybe rollers running round the battery pod with the drive wheel on top. would it be that heavy on the battery if you only spent 10 minutes going from the trailer to the water & back again ? If you think of mobility scooters; they have a? range of 30 miles on a 55 ah battery. would be cool to be able to beach launch a sub. Alan Sent from my iPad On 24/07/2014, at 11:51 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, >The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub.? We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch.? This idea would be the ultimate system.? The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries.? I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack.? Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect.? The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub.? Then there is the cost, think big!? :-)??? It would be the ultimate though! >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 09:14:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:14:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, You have hit my key issues with tracks integrated into boat.? I will add one more.? You are adding a lot of weight/cost/complexity for some thing that is used only on launch and retrieval. Maybe I should use the big DC traction motor I am taking out of the R300 as well as the motor controller and old joystick and build a submersible ?powered tracked launch and retrieval sled.? Support diver?drives the sled with?the R500, pilot onboard, off a flatbed trailer on to the beach, and out far enough to lift the R500 off the sled. Reverse process on retrieval.?? Could use it to launch off both beach sand and conventional ramp.? Add enough batteries to make?the sled?negatively buoyant when the R500 lifts off the sled. Could work. Cliff ________________________________ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:51 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive Alan, The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub.? We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch.? This idea would be the ultimate system.? The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries.? I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack.? Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect.? The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub.? Then there is the cost, think big!? :-)??? It would be the ultimate though! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 12:48:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:48:34 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers In-Reply-To: References: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406030904.94934.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406034134.33677.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank\All, Have a look at this pic. This is my idea for lowering the sub off the trailer. Two 2.5m pivoting ramps that attach to the back of the trailer and are connected together at the end with a bar. Two legs to support the back of the trailer. Two 3000kg jacks, one each side. Sub could be rolled onto the "extension" and then lowered down using the jacks. Sub is then wheeled off\on using a 3000kg winch. The drawing is to scale and shows an angle of 11 degrees. What do you think? Its open to suggestions of course. Many thanks James ? On 22 July 2014 14:41, James Frankland wrote: > Hi Hank. > I like it. Sounds like a potentially good idea. I'll give it a bit of > thought and draw a few things up. Any suggestions\ideas from anyone > welcome. > > Thanks > James > > > On 22 July 2014 14:02, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> Right I remember you asking about that now. The problem with jacking up >> the front of the trailer is, if you disconnect from the tow vehicle, you >> got no way to hold her back properly. >> My idea with the tilting C channel is to make the channels like a tilting >> deck. The sub rolls back a bit and the balance point lets the C channels >> tip creating a tilting deck so to speak. Your ramps can extend from the C >> channels creating a long smooth ramp. You would need a way to hold the >> tilting C channels from dropping out of control when the sub is completely >> off the trailer. >> You can possibly hinge the C channels right behind the rear axel cross >> member thus making it very clean and compact. >> This can all be accomplished the same way that a gravity tilt deck >> trailer works. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:48:09 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> I was aware of the tilting issue. The plan is to have reasonably long >> ramps to minimise the tilt and also jack up the front of the trailer to >> meet the angle. That was why I was asking about hydraulic rams etc a week >> or so ago. In the end I think you suggested just jockey wheels which is >> what im going to go for. Well, that the idea but is always open to >> suggestions. Can you clarify your c channel tilting idea? >> Im not sure what you mean. Might be better? >> ps: The ramps are going to be c channel anyway to stop the boat sliding >> off sideways. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 22 July 2014 13:08, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi James, >> I am worried about your set up with the rollers. If I understand it, you >> will have a horizontal trailer deck with ramps on an angle to the ground. >> With that many rollers it will be dangerous to transition from the >> horizontal deck to the angled ramps. When the sub rolls back, eventually >> it will be at the balance point and tilt to match the ramp angle. At the >> point the sub will be on only two rollers. If the two rollers happen to be >> at the transition point where the deck meets the ramps, the sub will turn >> violently and I mean violently. It could be dangerous. There are a >> few solutions, you can make a tilting track with C channel that tilts with >> the sub so all the wheels are in contact all the time. Another solution is >> to use only four wheels, or best of all a tilt deck trailer. I went with >> four large wheels on my cart for these reasons. With four wheels the sub is >> never at a tipping point. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:34:36 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> Yes, the idea is to make ramps that the sub can be winched down off the >> trailer. >> Regards >> James >> >> >> On 22 July 2014 02:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> James, >> Love the rollers, they look real good. Are you going to have a tilting >> track that the rollers run in? >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: trailer lowered.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 81595 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 13:11:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 10:11:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch rollers In-Reply-To: References: <1405993716.29474.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406030904.94934.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406034134.33677.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406221897.12643.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, You are getting very?close, move the pivot point as far ahead as possible, then lengthen the ramps?so the sub always sits on the ramps.? When the sub rolls back with the electric winch holding it, the entire ramp and sub will tilt down with gravity.?? The system you have there is still a bit complex.? The Jacks are not so good because you have to lower them at the same rate, plus you don't need them at all.? Your trailer is ideal for this conversion.? Put a pivot point right above the back axel, build a ramp about 12 feet long.? park the sub on the first 6 feet of ramp with 6 feet or so extending back from the sub.? When the sub roll back it will tip the ramp and your away.? mount your tail lights to the end of the ramps(deck) Hank On Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:48:34 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank\All, Have a look at this pic.? This is my idea for lowering the sub off the trailer.? Two 2.5m pivoting ramps that attach to the back of the trailer and are connected together at the end with a bar.? Two legs to support the back of the trailer. Two 3000kg jacks, one each side. Sub could be rolled onto the "extension" and then lowered down using the jacks.? Sub is then wheeled off\on using a 3000kg winch. The drawing is to scale and shows an angle of 11 degrees. What do you think?? Its open to suggestions of course. Many thanks James ? On 22 July 2014 14:41, James Frankland wrote: Hi Hank. >I like it.? Sounds like a potentially good idea.? I'll give it a bit of thought and draw a few things up.? Any suggestions\ideas from anyone welcome. > >Thanks >James > > > >On 22 July 2014 14:02, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hi James, >>Right I remember you asking about that now.? The problem with jacking up the front of the trailer is, if you disconnect from the tow vehicle, you got no way to hold her back properly.? >>My idea with the tilting C channel is to make the channels like a tilting deck.? The sub rolls back a bit and the balance point lets the C channels tip creating a tilting deck so to speak. Your ramps can extend from the C channels creating a long smooth ramp.? You would need a way to hold the tilting C channels from dropping out of control when the sub is completely off the trailer. >>You can possibly?hinge the C channels right behind the rear axel cross member thus making it very clean and compact. >>This can all be accomplished the same way that?a gravity tilt deck trailer works.? >>Hank >> >> >> >>On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:48:09 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Hi Hank, >> >>I was aware of the tilting issue.? The plan is to have reasonably long ramps to minimise the tilt and also jack up the front of the trailer to meet the angle.? That was why I was asking about hydraulic rams etc a week or so ago.? In the end I think you suggested just jockey wheels which is what im going to go for.?? Well, that the idea but is always open to suggestions.? Can you clarify your c channel tilting idea?? >>Im not sure what you mean.? Might be better?? >>ps: The ramps are going to be c channel anyway to stop the boat sliding off sideways. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On 22 July 2014 13:08, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Hi James, >>>I am worried about your set up with the rollers.? If I understand it, you will have a horizontal trailer deck with ramps on an angle to the ground.? With that many rollers it will be dangerous to transition from the horizontal deck to the angled ramps.? When the sub rolls back, eventually it will be at the balance point and tilt to match the ramp angle.? At the point the sub will be on only two rollers.? If the two rollers happen to be at the transition point where the deck meets the ramps, the sub will turn violently and I mean violently.? It could be dangerous.? There are?a few?solutions, you can make a tilting?track with C channel that tilts with the sub so all the wheels are in contact all the time.? Another solution is to use only four wheels, or best of all a tilt deck trailer.? I went with four large wheels on my cart for these reasons. With four wheels the sub is never at a tipping point.? >>>Hank >>> >>> >>> >>>On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:34:36 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>Hi Hank, >>> >>>Yes, the idea is to make ramps that the sub can be winched down off the trailer.? >>>Regards >>>James >>> >>> >>> >>>On 22 July 2014 02:48, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>James, >>>>Love the rollers, they look real good.? Are you going to have a tilting track that the rollers run in?? >>>>Hank >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: trailer lowered.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 81595 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 13:27:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 10:27:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406222845.56438.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, Now that's an idea.? Now go one step further and make the launch platform so it can raise and lower with ballast tanks and it becomes a launch platform slash garage with a walk around platform to get in and out of the sub. Maybe someone can video Gamma rolling off the trailer at the convention and post it.? It works real nice and is quite smooth and safe. Hank On Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:14:37 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, You have hit my key issues with tracks integrated into boat.? I will add one more.? You are adding a lot of weight/cost/complexity for some thing that is used only on launch and retrieval. Maybe I should use the big DC traction motor I am taking out of the R300 as well as the motor controller and old joystick and build a submersible ?powered tracked launch and retrieval sled.? Support diver?drives the sled with?the R500, pilot onboard, off a flatbed trailer on to the beach, and out far enough to lift the R500 off the sled. Reverse process on retrieval.?? Could use it to launch off both beach sand and conventional ramp.? Add enough batteries to make?the sled?negatively buoyant when the R500 lifts off the sled. Could work. Cliff ________________________________ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:51 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive Alan, The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub.? We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch.? This idea would be the ultimate system.? The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries.? I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack.? Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect.? The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub.? Then there is the cost, think big!? :-)??? It would be the ultimate though! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 13:29:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 24 Jul 2014 17:29 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1XAMpQ-1gRYie0@fwd09.t-online.de> http://articles.maritimepropulsion.com/article/Iguana-29-Amphibian-4393.aspx http://www.besportier.com/archives/iguana-amphibious-yacht-with-caterpillar-tracks.html http://modelscale.free.fr/histoire/SubtankWM_P/ http://www.uboat.net/types/steufel.htm "Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hank, You have hit my key issues with tracks integrated into boat. I will add one more. You are adding a lot of weight/cost/complexity for some thing that is used only on launch and retrieval. Maybe I should use the big DC traction motor I am taking out of the R300 as well as the motor controller and old joystick and build a submersible powered tracked launch and retrieval sled. Support diver drives the sled with the R500, pilot onboard, off a flatbed trailer on to the beach, and out far enough to lift the R500 off the sled. Reverse process on retrieval. Could use it to launch off both beach sand and conventional ramp. Add enough batteries to make the sled negatively buoyant when the R500 lifts off the sled. Could work. Cliff From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:51 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive Alan, The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub. We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch. This idea would be the ultimate system. The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries. I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack. Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect. The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub. Then there is the cost, think big! :-) It would be the ultimate though! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 16:37:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:37:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53d16e8c.e734460a.44b2.123b@mx.google.com> Hi Alan, Cant seem to connect to it Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2014 11:42 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, that manual you added is great. A lot of work. Thanks for adding it. I blew up some of the images including the systems diagram, & they came out nice & clear. Here's the direct link for those interested. http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manual Alan. _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300 and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10144 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 16:45:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:45:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <53d16e8c.e734460a.44b2.123b@mx.google.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53d16e8c.e734460a.44b2.123b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1406234711.49128.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manual. Or go to http://www.subdb.info/database/?? scroll down and click on R300.? Select manuals and documents on left then click on Operating manual and you should get it. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Hi Alan, Cant seem to connect to it ? Hugh ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2014 11:42 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 ? Cliff, that manual you added is great. A lot of work. Thanks for adding it. I blew up some of the images including the systems diagram, & they came? out nice & clear. Here's the direct link for those interested. http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manual Alan. ? From:Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 ? Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300?and added some manuals. ? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? From:Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. ? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10144 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10148 (20140724) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 16:46:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:46:01 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <53d16e8c.e734460a.44b2.123b@mx.google.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53d16e8c.e734460a.44b2.123b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Hugh, yes the link didn't fully work & is only taking you to the main page. You need to scroll down to the R300 & open up the manuals & documents link. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/07/2014, at 8:37 am, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > Cant seem to connect to it > > Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2014 11:42 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 > > Cliff, > that manual you added is great. A lot of work. Thanks for adding it. > I blew up some of the images including the systems diagram, & they came > out nice & clear. > Here's the direct link for those interested. > http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manual > Alan. > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 > > Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300 and added some manuals. > > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 > > > Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have > the most basic information about it in the database. > > > > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10144 (20140723) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10148 (20140724) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 17:10:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:10:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, the sled idea might be messy, as you would need to transfer to the sled in relatively shallow water & transition from a buoyant state to a neutral state on to the platform with wave motion throwing you about. Even if it was dead calm launching, you couldn't rely on it being that way when you came up. It could be dangerous for the support person manoeuvring the sub on to the platform. To me launching the R500 is going to be a big issue. I found I couldn't launch my little 360 kg sub in a local lake & have to travel 3 & 1/2 hrs to get into some fresh water diving. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/07/2014, at 1:14 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > You have hit my key issues with tracks integrated into boat. I will add one more. You are adding a lot of weight/cost/complexity for some thing that is used only on launch and retrieval. > > Maybe I should use the big DC traction motor I am taking out of the > R300 as well as the motor controller and old joystick and build a submersible powered tracked launch and retrieval sled. Support diver drives the sled with the R500, pilot onboard, off a flatbed trailer on to the beach, and out far enough to lift the R500 off the sled. Reverse process on retrieval. Could use it to launch off both beach sand and conventional ramp. Add enough batteries to make the sled negatively buoyant when the R500 lifts off the sled. > > Could work. > > Cliff > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:51 AM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive > > Alan, > The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub. We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch. This idea would be the ultimate system. The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries. I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack. Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect. The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub. Then there is the cost, think big! :-) It would be the ultimate though! > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 17:28:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:28:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406237299.23900.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I agree that launch and retrieval is key for a vertical boat like this. A friend of mine, Gary Boucher launches his boat Vindicator on a trailer at a bot ramp with a cable between the trailer and truck.? To launch, he backs the boat a close as possible to the water.? He then chocks the trailer and disconnects from hitch.? He then attaches a 50 ft cable from truck to trailer.? He then pulls cable tight and unchocks the trailer.? He then back the truck/trailer into the water until psub? lifts off.? I helped him launch on one trip and we had no trouble using this technique other than it being slow and other boat?trailers were impatient. Cliff ________________________________ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive Cliff, the sled idea might be messy, as you would need to transfer to the sled in relatively shallow water & transition from a buoyant state to a neutral state on to the platform with wave motion throwing you about. Even if it was dead calm launching, you couldn't rely on it being that way when you came up. It could be dangerous for the support person manoeuvring the sub on to the platform.? To me launching the R500 is going to be a big issue. I found I couldn't launch my little 360 kg sub in a local lake & have to travel 3 & 1/2 hrs to get into some fresh water diving.? Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 25/07/2014, at 1:14 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hank, > > >You have hit my key issues with tracks integrated into boat.? I will add one more.? You are adding a lot of weight/cost/complexity for some thing that is used only on launch and retrieval. > >Maybe I should use the big DC traction motor I am taking out of the >R300 as well as the motor controller and old joystick and build a submersible ?powered tracked launch and retrieval sled.? Support diver?drives the sled with?the R500, pilot onboard, off a flatbed trailer on to the beach, and out far enough to lift the R500 off the sled. Reverse process on retrieval.?? Could use it to launch off both beach sand and conventional ramp.? Add enough batteries to make?the sled?negatively buoyant when the R500 lifts off the sled. > > >Could work. > > >Cliff > > > >________________________________ > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:51 AM >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive > > > >Alan, >The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub.? We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch.? This idea would be the ultimate system.? The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries.? I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack.? Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect.? The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub.? Then there is the cost, think big!? :-)??? It would be the ultimate though! >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 18:33:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:33:22 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <1406234711.49128.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53d16e8c.e734460a.44b2.123b@mx.google.com> <1406234711.49128.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53d189bb.0458440a.1647.188b@mx.google.com> Many thanks. If only it had search and replace function so I could copy and alter!!! You are great on detail, Cliff. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 25 July 2014 8:45 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manual. Or go to http://www.subdb.info/database/ scroll down and click on R300. Select manuals and documents on left then click on Operating manual and you should get it. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Hi Alan, Cant seem to connect to it Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2014 11:42 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, that manual you added is great. A lot of work. Thanks for adding it. I blew up some of the images including the systems diagram, & they came out nice & clear. Here's the direct link for those interested. http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1272847408/docs/operating_manual Alan. From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Ok, Jon, updated the DB speciation sheet for the R-300 and added some manuals. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 Cliff, if you have time please update the R-300 as well...I only have the most basic information about it in the database. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10144 (20140723) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10148 (20140724) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10148 (20140724) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 20:20:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:20:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1XAMpQ-1gRYie0@fwd09.t-online.de> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406207677.84522.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1XAMpQ-1gRYie0@fwd09.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1406247635.23930.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Carsten, some great subs & boats there in your archives. It amazes me how innovative people have been. Everything seems to have been tried. You could probably do that with Sgt. Peppers but Euronaut might be a bit more trouble. Alan ________________________________ From: "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive E-Mail Software 6.0 http://articles.maritimepropulsion.com/article/Iguana-29-Amphibian-4393.aspx http://www.besportier.com/archives/iguana-amphibious-yacht-with-caterpillar-tracks.html http://modelscale.free.fr/histoire/SubtankWM_P/ http://www.uboat.net/types/steufel.htm "Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: ? >Hank, > > >You have hit my key issues with tracks integrated into boat.? I will add one more.? You are adding a lot of weight/cost/complexity for some thing that is used only on launch and retrieval. > >Maybe I should use the big DC traction motor I am taking out of the >R300 as well as the motor controller and old joystick and build a submersible ?powered tracked launch and retrieval sled.? Support diver?drives the sled with?the R500, pilot onboard, off a flatbed trailer on to the beach, and out far enough to lift the R500 off the sled. Reverse process on retrieval.?? Could use it to launch off both beach sand and conventional ramp.? Add enough batteries to make?the sled?negatively buoyant when the R500 lifts off the sled. > > >Could work. > > >Cliff > > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:51 AM >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive > > > >Alan, >The fellow that helps me test and dive my subs is a huge fan of tracks on a sub.? We debate this for hrs after a big struggle at a lake trying to launch.? This idea would be the ultimate system.? The problem is, if it were electric, the power consumption would be huge and put a big drain on your batteries.? I figured the only way to do it would be with a gas motor hyd power pack.? Hook up the quick connectors to launch, then disconnect.? The next problem is, tracks, even rubber, are very heavy. The setup could weigh 1,000 lb easily if it is carrying a sub.? Then there is the cost, think big!? :-)??? It would be the ultimate though! >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 21:04:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:04:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D1AD29.9000006@ohiohills.com> Does anyone else remember the Hamlin/Sodders tracked submarine from 1950? I was sent some news reports about it, but the daughter of the mechanic (Sodders). M --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 21:15:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:15:12 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <53D1AD29.9000006@ohiohills.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D1AD29.9000006@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <53D1AFA0.6020405@archivale.com> I don't remember it exactly, but I have the Mechanix Illustrated article about it. Would love to have whatever else you have - it's a fascinating project. Marc On 7/25/2014 9:04 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Does anyone else remember the Hamlin/Sodders tracked submarine from > 1950? I was sent some news reports about it, but the daughter of the > mechanic (Sodders). > > > M > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 21:37:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:37:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator In-Reply-To: <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406252227.566.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff, looking at your intended R300 modifications; have you considered just having 2 rotating thrusters & keeping your jet pump. This will leave you with a similar set up to Alec & Emile, which work well. Also you would have a measure of redundancy. If you have 4 fixed motors & a rear motor stops you will go round in circles.? You could rototate the thrusters with electric motors inside the hull. Perhaps have the motors attached to the side planes & have them rotating. Sorry to get on your case again, but my previous build & next are similar to the R300 in ways & have been milling over this stuff a lot. Also that jet pump is too good to loose. It gets you across the surface really quickly. Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? Need to retire again to work on this. Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator New boat? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM That's a great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting something to link to a plc & they have some treat options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a wider range?Phil's life support paper is saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat seeing the R 300in Florida.Alan Sent from my iPad On 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use a?K-30, part number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 VDC output sensor. http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has worked flawlessly. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Pete ? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:05 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? Cliff, What are you using for a CO2 sensor? Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator ? To: "Personal Submersibles General ? Discussion" ? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM ? ? Hank ? On the R300, I have life support ? module I call the AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing ? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 supply from an ? external 2200 psig O2 bottle. I fill this with welding O2 ? with a whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure ? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This regulator? ? reduces the pressure to around 5 psig.? The?pressure ? downstream of?the regulator is adjustable with a maximum ? rate of 15 ? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two ? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP port.??Downstream of ? this regulator, I have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ controller from Porter.? ? The model number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set ? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input signal.?Max ? pressure on the O2 controller is 25 psig.? This O2 ? controller also sends out at 0-5V analog output signal?of ? the O2 SLPM?flow rate. ? Both these items were purchased on ? Ebay at a fraction of list.????I have been very happy ? with the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 ? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC that opens ? and closes this controller to keep the ? cabin O2 % between ? 19-22%.? ABS regulations requires that the O2 be held with ? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is that it ? automatically accounts for different metabolic consumptions ? rates for O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle ? valve in a bypass around this controller so that if both ? main and back up power?are lost, the pilot can manually ? adjust the O2 rate ? into the boat. The ? second part to controlling the atmosphere in the cabin?is ? scrubbing the CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter did ? not work very well with CO2 in the cabin ranging from 0-7000 ? ppm.? Part of the problem was the axial ? filter arrangement ? and part of the problem was the blower was not strong ? enough.? At the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a ? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial filter that ? is used to?clean air.? In 2013, I switch to this type of scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber has ? worked much better.? It consistently keeps the CO2 level ? below 2000 ppm with most of the time it being 1000-1500 ? ppm.? ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration ? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is works better ? is the radial design which minimizes the pressure drop ? through the Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a ? stronger blower. ? Long ? answer to short question. ? ? Cliff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ?? ? ? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric ? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is there something ? better?Hank _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 22:38:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:38:58 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 mods In-Reply-To: <1406252227.566.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406252227.566.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <60B63649-9A63-4E73-AD55-21BB2E8D5241@sbcglobal.net> Yes the jet pump is powerful and can develop great submerged speed. Surface speed is limited by the hull shape. When I get over about 5 knots on the surface a bow wave forms and forces the boat to dive. The main propulsion motor being inside the pressure hull along with the double mechanical seal generates a lot of noise. The re pitched impeller develops a lot of thrust when moving forward but in reverse, very little so with the body being streamlined it is hard to stop fast. Re Cliff Redu > On Jul 24, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > looking at your intended R300 modifications; have you considered just having 2 rotating thrusters > & keeping your jet pump. This will leave you with a similar set up to Alec & Emile, which work well. > Also you would have a measure of redundancy. If you have 4 fixed motors & a rear motor stops you will go > round in circles. > You could rototate the thrusters with electric motors inside the hull. > Perhaps have the motors attached to the side planes & have them rotating. > Sorry to get on your case again, but my previous build & next are similar to the R300 in ways > & have been milling over this stuff a lot. Also that jet pump is too good to loose. It gets you across the surface > really quickly. > Alan > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > I am working on two projects, the first is some mods to the R300. I have come to the conclusion that speed is an illusion for the mud holes of Texas. I am pulling the jet pump and drive train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's. Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability. Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. > > The new boat is a 1-atm, I person ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position . Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB. Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. 22" x 4" thick flat acrylic main viewport, three 8" side viewprots. Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal. Three axis joy stick. See attached pic. Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT. Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention. Life support for 72 hours. Just finished all the electrical design, working on electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod. FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights. Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300. > > Need to retire again to work on this. > > > > Cliff > > > > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > New boat? > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec. While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element. You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input. I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. > > For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf This sensor will handle 0-25%. The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232. All PLCs will have a RS232 port. I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok. With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. > > http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf is the manual for the sensor. > > Cliff > > > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? > > Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM > > That's a > great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting > something to link to a plc & they have some treat > options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a > wider range?Phil's life support paper is > saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on > the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you > aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat > seeing the R 300in > Florida.Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > I use a K-30, part > number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a > company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 > VDC output sensor. > http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module Has > worked flawlessly. > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA > mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, July 18, > 2014 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > > Cliff, What are you > using for a CO2 sensor? > > Thanks Pete > > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > To: > "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > > Hank > On the > R300, I have life support > module I call the > AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen > > Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing > with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 > supply from an > external 2200 psig O2 > bottle. I fill this with welding O2 > with a > whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure > reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This > regulator > reduces the pressure to around > 5 psig. The pressure > downstream of the > regulator is adjustable with a maximum > rate > of 15 > SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two > 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP > port. Downstream of > this regulator, I > have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ > > controller from Porter. > The model > number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set > from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input > signal. Max > pressure on the O2 controller > is 25 psig. This O2 > controller also sends > out at 0-5V analog output signal of > the O2 > SLPM flow rate. > Both these items were > purchased on > Ebay at a fraction of > list. I have been very happy > with > the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 > and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC > that opens > and closes this controller to > keep the > cabin O2 % between > 19-22%. ABS > regulations requires that the O2 be held with > in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is > that it > automatically accounts for > different metabolic consumptions > rates for > O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle > valve in a bypass around this controller so > that if both > main and back up power are > lost, the pilot can manually > adjust the O2 > rate > into the boat. > > The > second part to controlling the > atmosphere in the cabin is > scrubbing the > CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter > > with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter > did > not work very well with CO2 in the > cabin ranging from 0-7000 > ppm. Part of > the problem was the axial > filter arrangement > and part of the problem > was the blower was not strong > enough. At > the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec > > Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a > show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial > filter that > is used to clean air. In > 2013, I switch to this type of > > scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber > has > worked much better. It consistently > keeps the CO2 level > below 2000 ppm with > most of the time it being 1000-1500 > ppm. > ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration > below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is > works better > is the radial design which > minimizes the pressure drop > through the > Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a > stronger blower. > Long > answer to short question. > > Cliff > > > > > > On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > Hi All,I need to find a pediatric > flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is > there something > better?Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 22:51:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:51:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 mods In-Reply-To: <1406252227.566.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406252227.566.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5C4EF2A8-23BB-4A33-8E7C-BA61A82583E5@sbcglobal.net> Working on my phone and let that one go to soon. Going with four fixed thrusters solves a lot of the issues mentioned. I am willing to live with risk of losing one of the propulsion thrusters. With the articulated nozzle you need to be able to measure the position of all the control surfaces. This has proven problematic as demonstrated at the last psub convention. With four fixed thrusters I simplify my control system significantly . To me the main downside is speed and in the mud holes I frequent, I can't see well enough to go fast. Cliff Cliff Redus > On Jul 24, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > looking at your intended R300 modifications; have you considered just having 2 rotating thrusters > & keeping your jet pump. This will leave you with a similar set up to Alec & Emile, which work well. > Also you would have a measure of redundancy. If you have 4 fixed motors & a rear motor stops you will go > round in circles. > You could rototate the thrusters with electric motors inside the hull. > Perhaps have the motors attached to the side planes & have them rotating. > Sorry to get on your case again, but my previous build & next are similar to the R300 in ways > & have been milling over this stuff a lot. Also that jet pump is too good to loose. It gets you across the surface > really quickly. > Alan > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > I am working on two projects, the first is some mods to the R300. I have come to the conclusion that speed is an illusion for the mud holes of Texas. I am pulling the jet pump and drive train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's. Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability. Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. > > The new boat is a 1-atm, I person ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position . Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB. Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. 22" x 4" thick flat acrylic main viewport, three 8" side viewprots. Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal. Three axis joy stick. See attached pic. Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT. Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention. Life support for 72 hours. Just finished all the electrical design, working on electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod. FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights. Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300. > > Need to retire again to work on this. > > > > Cliff > > > > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > New boat? > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec. While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element. You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input. I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. > > For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc. http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf This sensor will handle 0-25%. The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232. All PLCs will have a RS232 port. I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok. With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. > > http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf is the manual for the sensor. > > Cliff > > > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? > > Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM > > That's a > great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting > something to link to a plc & they have some treat > options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a > wider range?Phil's life support paper is > saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on > the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you > aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat > seeing the R 300in > Florida.Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > I use a K-30, part > number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a > company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 > VDC output sensor. > http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module Has > worked flawlessly. > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA > mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, July 18, > 2014 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > > Cliff, What are you > using for a CO2 sensor? > > Thanks Pete > > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > To: > "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > > Hank > On the > R300, I have life support > module I call the > AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen > > Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing > with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 > supply from an > external 2200 psig O2 > bottle. I fill this with welding O2 > with a > whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure > reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This > regulator > reduces the pressure to around > 5 psig. The pressure > downstream of the > regulator is adjustable with a maximum > rate > of 15 > SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two > 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP > port. Downstream of > this regulator, I > have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ > > controller from Porter. > The model > number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set > from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input > signal. Max > pressure on the O2 controller > is 25 psig. This O2 > controller also sends > out at 0-5V analog output signal of > the O2 > SLPM flow rate. > Both these items were > purchased on > Ebay at a fraction of > list. I have been very happy > with > the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 > and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC > that opens > and closes this controller to > keep the > cabin O2 % between > 19-22%. ABS > regulations requires that the O2 be held with > in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is > that it > automatically accounts for > different metabolic consumptions > rates for > O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle > valve in a bypass around this controller so > that if both > main and back up power are > lost, the pilot can manually > adjust the O2 > rate > into the boat. > > The > second part to controlling the > atmosphere in the cabin is > scrubbing the > CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter > > with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter > did > not work very well with CO2 in the > cabin ranging from 0-7000 > ppm. Part of > the problem was the axial > filter arrangement > and part of the problem > was the blower was not strong > enough. At > the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec > > Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a > show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial > filter that > is used to clean air. In > 2013, I switch to this type of > > scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber > has > worked much better. It consistently > keeps the CO2 level > below 2000 ppm with > most of the time it being 1000-1500 > ppm. > ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration > below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is > works better > is the radial design which > minimizes the pressure drop > through the > Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a > stronger blower. > Long > answer to short question. > > Cliff > > > > > > On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > Hi All,I need to find a pediatric > flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is > there something > better?Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 24 23:36:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 20:36:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 mods In-Reply-To: <5C4EF2A8-23BB-4A33-8E7C-BA61A82583E5@sbcglobal.net> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406252227.566.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5C4EF2A8-23BB-4A33-8E7C-BA61A82583E5@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1406259406.60658.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff, can understand now. I am also doing 4 thrusters, but 2 rotating to give me double the thrust on & under the surface & motor redundancy. Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 mods Working on my phone and let that one go to soon. Going with four fixed thrusters solves a lot of the issues mentioned. ?I am willing to live with risk of losing one of the propulsion thrusters. With the articulated nozzle you need to be able to measure the position of all the control surfaces. ?This has proven problematic as demonstrated at the last psub convention. ?With four fixed thrusters I simplify my control system significantly . ? To me the main downside is speed and in the mud holes I frequent, I can't see well enough to go fast. ? Cliff Cliff Redus On Jul 24, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, >looking at your intended R300 modifications; have you considered just having 2 rotating thrusters >& keeping your jet pump. This will leave you with a similar set up to Alec & Emile, which work well. >Also you would have a measure of redundancy. If you have 4 fixed motors & a rear motor stops you will go >round in circles.? >You could rototate the thrusters with electric motors inside the hull. >Perhaps have the motors attached to the side planes & have them rotating. >Sorry to get on your case again, but my previous build & next are similar to the R300 in ways >& have been milling over this stuff a lot. Also that jet pump is too good to loose. It gets you across the surface >really quickly. >Alan > > > > > >________________________________ > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:34 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > >I am working on two projects, the first is?some mods to the R300.?I have come to the?conclusion?that speed is an?illusion for the mud holes of Texas.? ?I am pulling the jet pump and drive?train and ailerons and replace with four fixed MK-101's.? Slower speed but better low speed maneuverability.??Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. > > >The new boat is a?1-atm, I?person?ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands in a vertical position .? Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB.??Height 7'1", beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. ??22" x 4" thick flat?acrylic main viewport,?three 8" side viewprots. ?Uses four MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal.? Three axis joy stick.? See attached pic.? Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT.? Uses a version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub convention.? Life support for 72 hours.? Just finished all the electrical design, working on?electrical penetrators. Working on designing the exterior PLC pod.? FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for 24V 5000 lumen LED lights.?Will use seven of these. Life support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300.? > > >Need to retire again to work on this. > > > > > >Cliff > > > > > > > >From: via Personal_Submersibles >To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > >New boat? > > >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > >On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec.?While this has worked fine, it is just the sensor element.? You need a circuit board to convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input.? I had a friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. > > >For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 meters inc.? ?http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf??? This sensor will handle 0-25%.? The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232.? All PLCs will have a RS232 port.? I would have preferred the output to be an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but this will work ok.? With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. > > >http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf?is the manual for the sensor. > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > >From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > >Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? > >Thanks Pete? -------------------------------------------- >On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM > >That's a >great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting >something to link to a plc & they have some treat >options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a >wider range?Phil's life support paper is >saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on >the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you >aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat >seeing the R 300in >Florida.Alan > >Sent from my iPad >On >19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via >Personal_Submersibles >wrote: > >I use a?K-30, part >number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a >company CO2 meters inc.?The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 >VDC output sensor. >http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module?Has >worked flawlessly. >Cliff > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA >mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > >? ? ? ? From: Pete >? Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles >? To: Personal >Submersibles General Discussion > >? Sent: Friday, July 18, >2014 7:05 PM >? Subject: Re: >[PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >? > > >Cliff, What are you >using for a CO2 sensor? > >Thanks Pete > >-------------------------------------------- >On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via >Personal_Submersibles >wrote: > >? Subject: Re: >[PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator >? To: >"Personal Submersibles General >? Discussion" >? Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM >? >? Hank >? On the >R300, I have life support >? module I call the >AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen > >Control).? Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing >? with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 >supply from an >? external 2200 psig O2 >bottle. I fill this with welding O2 >? with a >whip.? ? In the AMOC module is a medical pressure >? reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000).? This >regulator? >? reduces the pressure to around >5 psig.? The?pressure >? downstream of?the >regulator is adjustable with a maximum >? rate >of 15 >? SLPM.? The porting on this regulator?is two >? 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP >port.??Downstream of >? this regulator, I >have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ > >controller from Porter.? >? The model >number is 201-FSVP.? This controller can be set >? from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input >signal.?Max >? pressure on the O2 controller >is 25 psig.? This O2 >? controller also sends >out at 0-5V analog output signal?of >? the O2 >SLPM?flow rate. >? Both these items were >purchased on >? Ebay at a fraction of >list.????I have been very happy >? with >the performance of these units.? By measuring the O2 >? and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC >that opens >? and closes this controller to >keep the >? cabin O2 % between >? 19-22%.? ABS >regulations requires that the O2 be held with >? in 18-24%.? The advantage of this system is >that it >? automatically accounts for >different metabolic consumptions >? rates for >O2.? In?the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle >? valve in a bypass around this controller so >that if both >? main and back up power?are >lost, the pilot can manually >? adjust the O2 >rate >? into the boat. > >The >? second part to controlling the >atmosphere in the cabin?is >? scrubbing the >CO2.? I initially used a axial flow filter > >with SodaSorb HP.? I found that the axial flow filter >did >? not work very well with CO2 in the >cabin ranging from 0-7000 >? ppm.? Part of >the problem was the axial >? filter arrangement >? and part of the problem >was the blower was not strong >? enough.? At >the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec > >Symth brought the scrubber?he?was using on Snoopy as a >? show and tell.? His scrubber is an OTS radial >filter that >? is used to?clean air.? In >2013, I switch to this type of > >scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber >has >? worked much better.? It consistently >keeps the CO2 level >? below 2000 ppm with >most of the time it being 1000-1500 >? ppm.? >ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration >? below 5000 ppm.? Part of the reason that is >works better >? is the radial design which >minimizes the pressure drop >? through the >Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a >? stronger blower. >? Long >? answer to short question. >? >? Cliff >? >? >? >? >? >? ? ? On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, >? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >? >wrote: >? ?? >? >? Hi All,I need to find a pediatric >? flow meter and regulator for Gamma.? Or is >there something >? better?Hank > >_______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? >? >? ?? >? -----Inline Attachment >Follows----- >? > >_______________________________________________ >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? ? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing >list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 25 12:37:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Paul Kreemer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:37:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 mods In-Reply-To: <60B63649-9A63-4E73-AD55-21BB2E8D5241@sbcglobal.net> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406252227.566.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <60B63649-9A63-4E73-AD55-21BB2E8D5241@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Cliff, with that hot rod you might want "hydro-brakes", back aft somewhere. :-) Paul On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yes the jet pump is powerful and can develop great submerged speed. > Surface speed is limited by the hull shape. When I get over about 5 knots > on the surface a bow wave forms and forces the boat to dive. The main > propulsion motor being inside the pressure hull along with the double > mechanical seal generates a lot of noise. The re pitched impeller develops > a lot of thrust when moving forward but in reverse, very little so with the > body being streamlined it is hard to stop fast. > > Re > Cliff Redu > > On Jul 24, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > looking at your intended R300 modifications; have you considered just > having 2 rotating thrusters > & keeping your jet pump. This will leave you with a similar set up to Alec > & Emile, which work well. > Also you would have a measure of redundancy. If you have 4 fixed motors & > a rear motor stops you will go > round in circles. > You could rototate the thrusters with electric motors inside the hull. > Perhaps have the motors attached to the side planes & have them rotating. > Sorry to get on your case again, but my previous build & next are similar > to the R300 in ways > & have been milling over this stuff a lot. Also that jet pump is too good > to loose. It gets you across the surface > really quickly. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:34 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > I am working on two projects, the first is some mods to the R300. I have > come to the conclusion that speed is an illusion for the mud holes of > Texas. I am pulling the jet pump and drive train and ailerons and replace > with four fixed MK-101's. Slower speed but better low speed > maneuverability. Moving from 120VDC battery bank to 36VDC. > > The new boat is a 1-atm, I person ADS designed for 500 fsw, pilot stands > in a vertical position . Dry weight 2940 lbs with 30% ROB. Height 7'1", > beam 6'6" draft 4'9", 200 SCF air/237 bar, 87 SCF O2/129 bar. 22" x 4" > thick flat acrylic main viewport, three 8" side viewprots. Uses four > MK-101 with kort nozzles, two vertical and two horizontal. Three axis joy > stick. See attached pic. Battery pods low, upper pods are MBT. Uses a > version of the pancake style vent valve you discussed at the last psub > convention. Life support for 72 hours. Just finished all the electrical > design, working on electrical penetrators. Working on designing the > exterior PLC pod. FRP cowling, 0.25" A517-70 shell. Working on housing for > 24V 5000 lumen LED lights. Will use seven of these. Life > support/communication gear/PLC/touchscreen/scrubber similar to R300. > > Need to retire again to work on this. > > > > Cliff > > > > > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:30 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > New boat? > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Tue, Jul 22, 2014 9:15 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > On the R300, I use a MAX-250 O2 sensor from Maxtec. While this has > worked fine, it is just the sensor element. You need a circuit board to > convert to 0-5 VDC analog signal the PLC can take as an input. I had a > friend design and fabricate the board several years ago. > > For the new boat I am designing, I like the UV-FLux 25% sensor from CO2 > meters inc. > http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Datasheets/DS-CM-0201-UV-Flux.pdf > This sensor will handle 0-25%. The sensor output is 3.3V TTL level RS232. > All PLCs will have a RS232 port. I would have preferred the output to be > an analog voltage output of 0-5 VDC like the CO2 sensor from them I use but > this will work ok. With this sensor you can connect directly to PLC. > > > http://co2meters.com/Documentation/Manuals/Manual-CM-0201-UV-Flux-Oxygen.pdf is > the manual for the sensor. > > Cliff > > > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > *From:* Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > Cliff, I forgot to ask. What are you using for an O2 sensor ? > > Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/19/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2014, 1:01 PM > > That's a > great link Cliff, have bookmarked it.I am wanting > something to link to a plc & they have some treat > options.How come you didn't buy a unit with a > wider range?Phil's life support paper is > saying we can take 3% for 1 hour, but therange on > the one you bought is 0 to 1%.Sorry you > aren't making it to Bellingham. It was a real treat > seeing the R 300in > Florida.Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 19/07/2014, at 12:25 pm, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > I use a K-30, part > number SE-0018 , 0-10,000 ppm (0-1%) CO2 sensor from a > company CO2 meters inc. The cost is $85 and it sends a 0-5 > VDC output sensor. > > http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2-sensors/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module Has > worked flawlessly. > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA > mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Pete > Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, July 18, > 2014 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > > > > Cliff, What are you > using for a CO2 sensor? > > Thanks Pete > > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 7/17/14, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 regulator > To: > "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 8:30 AM > > Hank > On the > R300, I have life support > module I call the > AMOC system (Air monitoring and Oxygen > > Control). Connected to the box is a 1/4" SS tubing > with Swagelok fittings connected to a O2 > supply from an > external 2200 psig O2 > bottle. I fill this with welding O2 > with a > whip. In the AMOC module is a medical pressure > reducing regulator (Hudson model 2000). This > regulator > reduces the pressure to around > 5 psig. The pressure > downstream of the > regulator is adjustable with a maximum > rate > of 15 > SLPM. The porting on this regulator is two > 1/4" NPT HP ports and one LP > port. Downstream of > this regulator, I > have installed an O2 thermal mass meter/ > > controller from Porter. > The model > number is 201-FSVP. This controller can be set > from 0-10 SLPM via an 0-5V analog input > signal. Max > pressure on the O2 controller > is 25 psig. This O2 > controller also sends > out at 0-5V analog output signal of > the O2 > SLPM flow rate. > Both these items were > purchased on > Ebay at a fraction of > list. I have been very happy > with > the performance of these units. By measuring the O2 > and CO2 percentages in the cabin, I have a PLC > that opens > and closes this controller to > keep the > cabin O2 % between > 19-22%. ABS > regulations requires that the O2 be held with > in 18-24%. The advantage of this system is > that it > automatically accounts for > different metabolic consumptions > rates for > O2. In the AMOC unit, I have a Swagelok needle > valve in a bypass around this controller so > that if both > main and back up power are > lost, the pilot can manually > adjust the O2 > rate > into the boat. > > The > second part to controlling the > atmosphere in the cabin is > scrubbing the > CO2. I initially used a axial flow filter > > with SodaSorb HP. I found that the axial flow filter > did > not work very well with CO2 in the > cabin ranging from 0-7000 > ppm. Part of > the problem was the axial > filter arrangement > and part of the problem > was the blower was not strong > enough. At > the 2012 PSUB convention in Vancouver, Alec > > Symth brought the scrubber he was using on Snoopy as a > show and tell. His scrubber is an OTS radial > filter that > is used to clean air. In > 2013, I switch to this type of > > scrubber/filer again with SodaSorb HB and the scrubber > has > worked much better. It consistently > keeps the CO2 level > below 2000 ppm with > most of the time it being 1000-1500 > ppm. > ABS rules require that you keep O2 concentration > below 5000 ppm. Part of the reason that is > works better > is the radial design which > minimizes the pressure drop > through the > Sodasorb and part is that I have switched to a > stronger blower. > Long > answer to short question. > > Cliff > > > > > > On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:27 AM, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > Hi All,I need to find a pediatric > flow meter and regulator for Gamma. Or is > there something > better?Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 25 12:39:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 25 Jul 2014 16:39 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <53D1AFA0.6020405@archivale.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D1AD29.9000006@ohiohills.com> <53D1AFA0.6020405@archivale.com> Message-ID: <1XAiWp-4Okrho0@fwd05.t-online.de> http://modelscale.free.fr/histoire/SubtankUS_P/ Picture No.5 "Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > I don't remember it exactly, but I have the Mechanix Illustrated article > about it. Would love to have whatever else you have - it's a fascinating > project. > > Marc > > On 7/25/2014 9:04 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Does anyone else remember the Hamlin/Sodders tracked submarine from > > 1950? I was sent some news reports about it, but the daughter of the > > mechanic (Sodders). > > > > > > M > > > > --- > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > > protection is active. > > http://www.avast.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 25 14:26:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:26:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <1XAiWp-4Okrho0@fwd05.t-online.de> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D1AD29.9000006@ohiohills.com> <53D1AFA0.6020405@archivale.com> <1XAiWp-4Okrho0@fwd05.t-online.de> Message-ID: <53D2A13A.2030506@ohiohills.com> On 7/25/2014 12:39 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > http://modelscale.free.fr/histoire/SubtankUS_P/ That's it. Thanks. M --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 25 18:31:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 15:31:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Message-ID: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi psubbers, in an attempt to get more information on the compensating issue I contacted fugu subs, who I remembered used air compensation. http://www.fugusub.com/ They operate small semi dry ambients probably to a max of 100ft.? One thiught is that they operate in the warm waters of Florida where you would think oil compensation would be an advantage in cooling the motors. This is their reply..... Hello Alan, I seldom respond to technical letters, but I thought it best to save you some headaches.? Over the last thirty years, we have tried several types of oils for filling motors with, as some "authorities" had recommended.? Here's what happens:? On motors with brushes, the centrifugal force and pressure of the oil passing between brushes and rotors causes the brush to "lift off" of the rotor, causing power loss.? The motor slows down dramatically from internal fluid frictions as well.? Another issue is that some of these oils can wreck the vinyl insulate on wires and possibly o-rings.? On brush motors,? oil is a failed prospect.? Stick with an air system.? Good luck with your project! Kind regards, Russell J. Canfield -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 10:08:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> The voice of experience. I knew about the brush problems, having fought those carbonizing issues with Hymak oil compensated thrusters (Pisces and Aquarius). Perhaps someone will develop this further and generate a white paper for the psubs archives? Air compensation certainly works for Karl S. and could well be a viable and inexpensive alternative for those in the planning/building stages. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs.org Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 6:35 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Hi psubbers, in an attempt to get more information on the compensating issue I contacted fugu subs, who I remembered used air compensation. http://www.fugusub.com/ They operate small semi dry ambients probably to a max of 100ft. One thiught is that they operate in the warm waters of Florida where you would think oil compensation would be an advantage in cooling the motors. This is their reply..... Hello Alan, I seldom respond to technical letters, but I thought it best to save you some headaches. Over the last thirty years, we have tried several types of oils for filling motors with, as some "authorities" had recommended. Here's what happens: On motors with brushes, the centrifugal force and pressure of the oil passing between brushes and rotors causes the brush to "lift off" of the rotor, causing power loss. The motor slows down dramatically from internal fluid frictions as well. Another issue is that some of these oils can wreck the vinyl insulate on wires and possibly o-rings. On brush motors, oil is a failed prospect. Stick with an air system. Good luck with your project! Kind regards, Russell J. Canfield _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 14:58:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (keith tollett via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 11:58:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trackdrive In-Reply-To: <53D2A13A.2030506@ohiohills.com> References: <1406202668.76416.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D1AD29.9000006@ohiohills.com> <53D1AFA0.6020405@archivale.com> <1XAiWp-4Okrho0@fwd05.t-online.de> <53D2A13A.2030506@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <1406401123.48254.YahooMailNeo@web120401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> NRI also has wheels for rolling along the sea floor, however, they are not? used for haul out and she has unlimited (nuclear) power. She actually got stuck at 20,000 feet as a result of a steep drop off encountered while rolling along the sea floor! Fortunately for her crew she was able to wiggle out of the mud after several hours and resume her mission. Cheers Keith On Friday, July 25, 2014 11:26 AM, Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: On 7/25/2014 12:39 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?http://modelscale.free.fr/histoire/SubtankUS_P/ > That's it.? Thanks. M ________________________________ This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 16:27:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 13:27:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1405992020.58690.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406406469.95357.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hank, What is the story behind your magnetic coupler ? You were talking about them on the list and then you had one. Did you buy it ? If so where? Did you build it ? If so from what plans. Thanks Pete -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/21/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, July 21, 2014, 6:20 PM there is a very nice solution here.? Magnetic couplers, it wouldn't take much to convert a minkota? to a magnetic coupled thruster.Hank On Monday, July 21, 2014 8:56:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dissipation of heat to the water environment via conduction with the motor housing would help temper overall thermal expansion.? The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite sized water jacket and not typically operated at full speed for long periods of time.? I suspect actual thermal expansion of the oil in the motor housing during typical underwater operations is negligible. In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, JimK's GUPPY is oil compensated and three 101's in a K-boat configuration and had no problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub.? Check out http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime with two forward 101's.? Also in http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 at 3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 aft, and at 4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's.? Alec has smaller motors on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it around.? I'm sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but from practical application it doesn't appear to be much of an issue when two or more motors are used.? There's enough power to move the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect that is present. Jon On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?James, a couple of points.? First, to me the fewer the leak paths the better so I would not install the added plug.? The issue is how to get traped air out of the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? I like Alec and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due to nipple protruding into body.? The other point is the wrap around tube volume can compensate for the small amount of air that remains trapped.? To deal with thermal expansion of the oil, first of all you are dealing with a small volume to start with so the tube/reservoir does not have to be all that large.? If you do a quick back of the envelope calc on the required volume to?compensate for only thermal expansion of the oil you about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( Assume oil has a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 1/F and that there is?one US pint of oil in the body of the 101 and that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? Delta volume is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 gal*128 OZ/gal *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? To me the design pressure inside the ME 101 should be ambient pressure as they have lip seals on shafts.? Lip seals are design to take external pressure.? They re not designed to take internal pressure.? So a simple wrap around tube for oil compensation with say a volume of 5 US teaspoons should work just fine as this would allow for thermal expansion of the oil and a small volume of trapped air and because the tube is flexible, the pressure inside the 101 is ambient which makes the lip seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on omitting all pressure compensation and?only relaying on the lip seal without any pressure compensation, I am not wild about this idea unless the boat is only designed for shallow water.? MK designers when they speced the lip seals for MK were designing shallow submergence of a trolling motor with a factor of safety.? So as you get deeper and deeper, you are starting to expose these lips seals to a significant differential pressure which causes them to overheat and fail at some point.? Is this 10ft or 50 ft or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this exposes the boat to some risk particularly if use the 101's for depth stability rather than a VBT and dive the boat negatively buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is forced into dropping ballast.? To me a bigger question on air vs oil compensation is how much?power are you giving up with oil compensation due to viscosity difference between oil and air.? As both Alec and Vance point out, there has been a lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil compensation without a lot documented failures.? I have not decided in my own mind which compensation method I will use on my MD-101's for future boats.? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 17:18:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Eide Pettersen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 23:18:27 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1406406469.95357.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1406406469.95357.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Would it be a good idea to use an inert gas like nitrogen or argon instead of air to pressure compensate thrusters? This is because compressed air will have a high partial pressure of oxygen, making the atmosphere in the thrusters more flammable. Also, if there is water trapped inside the thrusters, a high pp of oxygen will greatly speed up the corrosion rate. The downside is, of course, that air is readily available while an inert gas cost more. Regards, Jon E. Pettersen On 26 July 2014 22:27:49 CEST, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hank, What is the story behind your magnetic coupler ? You were talking >about them on the list and then you had one. Did you buy it ? If so >where? Did you build it ? If so from what plans. > >Thanks Pete > >-------------------------------------------- >On Mon, 7/21/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Date: Monday, July 21, 2014, 6:20 PM > > there is a very nice > solution here.? Magnetic couplers, it wouldn't take > much to convert a minkota? to a magnetic coupled > thruster.Hank > > > On Monday, July 21, 2014 8:56:11 PM, > Jon Wallace > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > Dissipation of heat to the water environment via > conduction with > the motor housing would help temper overall thermal > expansion.? > The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite > sized water > jacket and not typically operated at full speed for > long periods > of time.? I suspect actual thermal expansion of the > oil in the > motor housing during typical underwater operations is > negligible. > > > > In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, > JimK's GUPPY is oil > compensated and three 101's in a K-boat > configuration and had no > problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub.? Check out > http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 > at > 0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime > with two > forward 101's.? Also in > http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 > at > 3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 > aft, and at > 4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's.? Alec > has smaller motors > on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it > around.? I'm > sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but > from > practical application it doesn't appear to be much > of an issue > when two or more motors are used.? There's enough > power to move > the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect > that is > present. > > > > Jon > > > > > > On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > > > > ?James, a couple of points.? First, to > me the fewer > the leak paths the better so I would not > install the > added plug.? The issue is how to get traped > air out of > the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? > I like Alec > and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due > to nipple > protruding into body.? The other point is > the wrap > around tube volume can compensate for the > small amount > of air that remains trapped.? To deal with > thermal > expansion of the oil, first of all you are > dealing with > a small volume to start with so the > tube/reservoir does > not have to be all that large.? If you do a > quick back > of the envelope calc on the required volume > to?compensate for only thermal expansion of > the oil you > about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( > Assume oil has > a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 > 1/F and that > there is?one US pint of oil in the body of > the 101 and > that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? > Delta volume > is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 > gal*128 OZ/gal > *6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? > To me the design pressure inside the ME > 101 should be > ambient pressure as they have lip seals on > shafts.? Lip > seals are design to take external > pressure.? They re not > designed to take internal pressure.? So a > simple wrap > around tube for oil compensation with say a > volume of 5 > US teaspoons should work just fine as this > would allow > for thermal expansion of the oil and a small > volume of > trapped air and because the tube is > flexible, the > pressure inside the 101 is ambient which > makes the lip > seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on > omitting all > pressure compensation and?only relaying on > the lip seal > without any pressure compensation, I am not > wild about > this idea unless the boat is only designed > for shallow > water.? MK designers when they speced the > lip seals for > MK were designing shallow submergence of a > trolling > motor with a factor of safety.? So as you > get deeper and > deeper, you are starting to expose these > lips seals to a > significant differential pressure which > causes them to > overheat and fail at some point.? Is this > 10ft or 50 ft > or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this > exposes the boat > to some risk particularly if use the > 101's for depth > stability rather than a VBT and dive the > boat negatively > buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, > boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is > forced into dropping > ballast.? > > > > To me a bigger question on air vs oil > compensation is > how much?power are you giving up with oil > compensation > due to viscosity difference between oil and > air.? > > > > As both Alec and Vance point out, there > has been a > lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil > compensation > without a lot documented failures.? > > > > I have not decided in my own mind which > compensation > method I will use on my MD-101's for > future boats.? > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 18:35:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:35:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <1406406469.95357.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406414129.68717.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Jon, I hadn't thought of the possibility of a fire inside a motor. You would have heat, sparking potential, fuel in the form of greece, & plenty of oxygen. Karl Stanley's air compensated motors have gone down to 2000 ft & regularly go to 1000 with his tourist operation, & no fires that I've heard of. Now that you have brought this up I think I will look in to some sought of inflammable grease to replace any existing grease in the motor, & make sure the motor is cleaned well on the inside. As you say, it's too easy to just use the air supply you already have & you probably wouldn't look? at other gasses unless you were going to have a dedicated tank for compensating. Alan ________________________________ From: Jon Eide Pettersen via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec Would it be a good idea to use an inert gas like nitrogen or argon instead of air to pressure compensate thrusters? This is because compressed air will have a high partial pressure of oxygen, making the atmosphere in the thrusters more flammable. Also, if there is water trapped inside the thrusters, a high pp of oxygen will greatly speed up the corrosion rate. The downside is, of course, that air is readily available while an inert gas cost more. Regards, Jon E. Pettersen On 26 July 2014 22:27:49 CEST, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank, What is the story behind your magnetic coupler ? You were talking about them on the list and then you had one. Did you buy it ? If so where? Did you build it ? If so from what plans. > >Thanks Pete > >>________________________________ > >On Mon, 7/21/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >Date: Monday, July 21, 2014, 6:20 PM > >there is a very nice >solution here.? Magnetic couplers, it wouldn't take >much to convert a minkota? to a magnetic coupled >thruster.Hank > > >On Monday, July 21, 2014 8:56:11 PM, >Jon Wallace >via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > >Dissipation of heat to the water environment via >conduction with >the motor housing would help temper overall thermal >expansion.? >The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite >sized water >jacket and not typically operated at full speed for >long periods >of time.? I suspect actual thermal expansion of the >oil in the >motor housing during typical underwater operations is >negligible. > > > >In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, >JimK's GUPPY is oil >compensated and three 101's in a K-boat >configuration and had no >problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub.? Check out >http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 >at >0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime >with two >forward 101's.? Also in >http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 >at >3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 >aft, and at >4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's.? Alec >has smaller motors >on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it >around.? I'm >sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but >from >practical application it doesn't appear to be much >of an issue >when two or more motors are used.? There's enough >power to move >the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect >that is >present. > > > >Jon > > > > > >On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via >Personal_Submersibles >wrote: > > > > > > > > >?James, a couple of points.? First, to >me the fewer >the leak paths the better so I would not >install the >added plug.? The issue is how to get traped >air out of >the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? >I like Alec >and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due >to nipple >protruding into body.? The other point is >the wrap >around tube volume can compensate for the >small amount >of air that remains trapped.? To deal with >thermal >expansion of the oil, first of all you are >dealing with >a small volume to start with so the >tube/reservoir does >not have to be all that large.? If you do a >quick back >of the envelope calc on the required volume >to?compensate for only thermal expansion of >the oil you >about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( >Assume oil has >a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 >1/F and that >there is?one US pint of oil in the body of >the 101 and >that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? >Delta volume >is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 >gal*128 OZ/gal >*6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >To me the design pressure inside the ME >101 should be >ambient pressure as they have lip seals on >shafts.? Lip >seals are design to take external >pressure.? They re not >designed to take internal pressure.? So a >simple wrap >around tube for oil compensation with say a >volume of 5 >US teaspoons should work just fine as this >would allow >for thermal expansion of the oil and a small >volume of >trapped air and because the tube is >flexible, the >pressure inside the 101 is ambient which >makes the lip >seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on >omitting all >pressure compensation and?only relaying on >the lip seal >without any pressure compensation, I am not >wild about >this idea unless the boat is only designed >for shallow >water.? MK designers when they speced the >lip seals for >MK were designing shallow submergence of a >trolling >motor with a factor of safety.? So as you >get deeper and >deeper, you are starting to expose these >lips seals to a >significant differential pressure which >causes them to >overheat and fail at some point.? Is this >10ft or 50 ft >or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this >exposes the boat >to some risk particularly if use the >101's for depth >stability rather than a VBT and dive the >boat negatively >buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, >boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is >forced into dropping >ballast.? > > > >To me a bigger question on air vs oil >compensation is >how much?power are you giving up with oil >compensation >due to viscosity difference between oil and >air.? > > > >As both Alec and Vance point out, there >has been a >lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil >compensation >without a lot documented failures.? > > > >I have not decided in my own mind which >compensation >method I will use on my MD-101's for >future boats.? > > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 18:46:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:46:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: References: <1406406469.95357.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406414784.9895.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Pete, I went through all the usual steps to get a magnetic coupler for Gamma.? The cost was in the 2K range for all the parts, two magnet assemblies and a barrier.? I went to my best resource, ebay, and found a brand new surplus hydraulic pump with a magnetic coupler.? Based on the pump specs, port sizes etc, I new the magnetic coupler was sufficient in size for Gamma.? I bought the pump complete for about 200 dollars, amazing!? It was a simple machining job to make it work with Gamma's existing set up.??Magnetic couplers are really a great set up.? Guess that is why Nuytco uses them.? It would be nice to make a kit to fit the?minkota ?motors.? A small pump conversion is all it would take. If the end cap were replaced in the kit, I am sure sufficient depths could be achieved with them. Hank On Saturday, July 26, 2014 5:19:05 PM, Jon Eide Pettersen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Would it be a good idea to use an inert gas like nitrogen or argon instead of air to pressure compensate thrusters? This is because compressed air will have a high partial pressure of oxygen, making the atmosphere in the thrusters more flammable. Also, if there is water trapped inside the thrusters, a high pp of oxygen will greatly speed up the corrosion rate. The downside is, of course, that air is readily available while an inert gas cost more. Regards, Jon E. Pettersen On 26 July 2014 22:27:49 CEST, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank, What is the story behind your magnetic coupler ? You were talking about them on the list and then you had one. Did you buy it ? If so where? Did you build it ? If so from what plans. > >Thanks Pete > > > >________________________________ > >On Mon, 7/21/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >Date: Monday, July 21, 2014, 6:20 PM > >there is a very nice >solution here.? Magnetic couplers, it wouldn't take >much to convert a minkota? to a magnetic coupled >thruster.Hank > > >On Monday, July 21, 2014 8:56:11 PM, >Jon Wallace >via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > >Dissipation of heat to the water environment via >conduction with >the motor housing would help temper overall thermal >expansion.? >The motors are essentially surrounded by an infinite >sized water >jacket and not typically operated at full speed for >long periods >of time.? I suspect actual thermal expansion of the >oil in the >motor housing during typical underwater operations is >negligible. > > > >In regards to viscosity effect on the motors, >JimK's GUPPY is oil >compensated and three 101's in a K-boat >configuration and had no >problem moving that heavy (7 ton?) sub.? Check out >http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0b7NjxttL4?rel=0&vq=hd720 >at >0:20-0:28 where he just about stops the sub on a dime >with two >forward 101's.? Also in >http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Vaq4JK9wVs?rel=0&vq=hd720 >at >3:39 he pulls out of the boat lift with just one 101 >aft, and at >4:02 he pulls out with two forward 101's.? Alec >has smaller motors >on SNOOPY but they still have enough power to move it >around.? I'm >sure viscosity effect on the motors are measurable but >from >practical application it doesn't appear to be much >of an issue >when two or more motors are used.? There's enough >power to move >the subs as desired even with any viscosity effect >that is >present. > > > >Jon > > > > > >On 7/21/2014 10:22 AM, Cliff Redus via >Personal_Submersibles >wrote: > > > > > > > > >?James, a couple of points.? First, to >me the fewer >the leak paths the better so I would not >install the >added plug.? The issue is how to get traped >air out of >the Md-101 when using oil compensation.?? >I like Alec >and Hanks ideas for removing trapped air due >to nipple >protruding into body.? The other point is >the wrap >around tube volume can compensate for the >small amount >of air that remains trapped.? To deal with >thermal >expansion of the oil, first of all you are >dealing with >a small volume to start with so the >tube/reservoir does >not have to be all that large.? If you do a >quick back >of the envelope calc on the required volume >to?compensate for only thermal expansion of >the oil you >about need 3 US teaspoons for a MK 101?( >Assume oil has >a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.00056 >1/F and that >there is?one US pint of oil in the body of >the 101 and >that the temperature swing is 70F to 130F.? >Delta volume >is 0.125 gal * 0.00056 1/F * 60F = 0.0042 >gal*128 OZ/gal >*6 US TSP/OZ = 3.2 teaspoons).? >To me the design pressure inside the ME >101 should be >ambient pressure as they have lip seals on >shafts.? Lip >seals are design to take external >pressure.? They re not >designed to take internal pressure.? So a >simple wrap >around tube for oil compensation with say a >volume of 5 >US teaspoons should work just fine as this >would allow >for thermal expansion of the oil and a small >volume of >trapped air and because the tube is >flexible, the >pressure inside the 101 is ambient which >makes the lip >seal happy.? As to Alan's suggestion on >omitting all >pressure compensation and?only relaying on >the lip seal >without any pressure compensation, I am not >wild about >this idea unless the boat is only designed >for shallow >water.? MK designers when they speced the >lip seals for >MK were designing shallow submergence of a >trolling >motor with a factor of safety.? So as you >get deeper and >deeper, you are starting to expose these >lips seals to a >significant differential pressure which >causes them to >overheat and fail at some point.? Is this >10ft or 50 ft >or 100 ft.? Don't know but to me this >exposes the boat >to some risk particularly if use the >101's for depth >stability rather than a VBT and dive the >boat negatively >buoyant, i.e., vertical thruster fails, >boat?starts?to?descend and pilot is >forced into dropping >ballast.? > > > >To me a bigger question on air vs oil >compensation is >how much?power are you giving up with oil >compensation >due to viscosity difference between oil and >air.? > > > >As both Alec and Vance point out, there >has been a >lot of bottom time on MD-101s with oil >compensation >without a lot documented failures.? > > > >I have not decided in my own mind which >compensation >method I will use on my MD-101's for >future boats.? > > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >>________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >>________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 20:41:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:41:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Vance, I'm still plugging away on this one, looking at the pros & cons.? If I wrote a white paper everyone that read it would end up more confused than when they started. But this is a summary of what I've learned so far. Others may want to add or comment on this. The main cause of electric motor failure is overheating. So there is a plus for oil compensation here in that it transfers the heat to the casing. Most?electric motors rely on air cooling which we can't? achieve underwater. Brushless motors disipate heat to the casing easier but are normally geared. Emile has a 2hp protruar brushless motor but said it was noisy. The Minnkota motors must be a robust design that can handle the heat build up while submerged. Although I am wondering if there is heat transferance up the tube from the thruster to the control box, with air circulation caused by the rotating motor. The air compensation may work with trolling motors designed for high temperatures, but fail with other motors. Or fail if the props are too large & put too much strain on the motors causing them to overheat. In oil compensating the oil can lift the brushes, but this has been countered by using heavier spring tension on the brushes. The wear of the carbon brushes causes the oil to become more conductive & cause arcing. I have read of recomendations to change the oil every 10-20 hrs. Oil causes the motor to run more slowly & less economically. Greg mentioned that his compensating oil (I think WD40) was causing seals & other plastics to harden. I experimented with WD40 & found it destroyed some plastics in hours. Carsten & Emile moved to a thin expensive silicone oil. Emile then moved to rim thrusters. Commercial oil compensating units have a 4-5 psi overpressure. However Carsten says that his units without overpressure other than being mounted above the motor, can leak when out of water. But this brings in the? other part of the equation which is the motor seals.(Don't know much about these, have to learn) Another thing that Carsten mentioned was that the cooling of the oil can suck in water past the seal. However I would have thought the system would remain ambient & his oil reservoir would release oil back in to the motor, also a system with overpressure would stop this. He also said that you can get water ingress into an oil filled motor & it survives, but one drop of salt water in? an air compensated motor can wreck it. Which brings me to Hugh's air comp suggestion of using a pressure relieving regulator with back pressure relief & setting it with an overpressure. I think this is a great idea & want to experiment with the stainless one he found ?I have pulled 2 other types of these relieving regulators to bits & they look?a good option. I am just not sure how? much flow the releiving function can handle & what pressure fluctuations?there would be in the motor. Probably only a few psi.? Karl's motors would have 500 psi at 1000 ft to force out through?his thruster?shaft seals on his ascent. Ladies turned up, got to go. Alan ________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters The voice of experience. I knew about the brush problems, having fought those carbonizing issues with Hymak oil compensated thrusters (Pisces and Aquarius). Perhaps someone will develop this further and generate a white paper for the psubs archives? Air compensation certainly works for Karl S. and could well be a viable and inexpensive alternative for those in the planning/building stages. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs.org Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 6:35 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Hi psubbers, in an attempt to get more information on the compensating issue I contacted fugu subs, who I remembered used air compensation. http://www.fugusub.com/ They operate small semi dry ambients probably to a max of 100ft.? One thiught is that they operate in the warm waters of Florida where you would think oil compensation would be an advantage in cooling the motors. This is their reply..... Hello Alan, I seldom respond to technical letters, but I thought it best to save you some headaches.? Over the last thirty years, we have tried several types of oils for filling motors with, as some "authorities" had recommended.? Here's what happens:? On motors with brushes, the centrifugal force and pressure of the oil passing between brushes and rotors causes the brush to "lift off" of the rotor, causing power loss.? The motor slows down dramatically from internal fluid frictions as well.? Another issue is that some of these oils can wreck the vinyl insulate on wires and possibly o-rings.? On brush motors,? oil is a failed prospect.? Stick with an air system.? Good luck with your project! Kind regards, Russell J. Canfield _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 26 22:43:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 22:43:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. Best, Alec > On Jul 26, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Vance, > I'm still plugging away on this one, looking at the pros & cons. > If I wrote a white paper everyone that read it would end up more confused than when they started. > But this is a summary of what I've learned so far. Others may want to add or comment on this. > The main cause of electric motor failure is overheating. So there is a plus for oil compensation here > in that it transfers the heat to the casing. Most electric motors rely on air cooling which we can't > achieve underwater. Brushless motors disipate heat to the casing easier but are normally geared. > Emile has a 2hp protruar brushless motor but said it was noisy. > The Minnkota motors must be a robust design that can handle the heat build up while submerged. > Although I am wondering if there is heat transferance up the tube from the thruster to the control box, > with air circulation caused by the rotating motor. > The air compensation may work with trolling motors designed for high temperatures, but fail with other > motors. Or fail if the props are too large & put too much strain on the motors causing them to overheat. > In oil compensating the oil can lift the brushes, but this has been countered by using heavier spring tension on the brushes. > The wear of the carbon brushes causes the oil to become more conductive & cause arcing. > I have read of recomendations to change the oil every 10-20 hrs. > Oil causes the motor to run more slowly & less economically. > Greg mentioned that his compensating oil (I think WD40) was causing seals & other plastics to harden. > I experimented with WD40 & found it destroyed some plastics in hours. > Carsten & Emile moved to a thin expensive silicone oil. Emile then moved to rim thrusters. > Commercial oil compensating units have a 4-5 psi overpressure. However Carsten says that his units without > overpressure other than being mounted above the motor, can leak when out of water. But this brings in the > other part of the equation which is the motor seals.(Don't know much about these, have to learn) > Another thing that Carsten mentioned was that the cooling of the oil can suck in water past the seal. However > I would have thought the system would remain ambient & his oil reservoir would release oil back in to the motor, > also a system with overpressure would stop this. > He also said that you can get water ingress into an oil filled motor & it survives, but one drop of salt water in > an air compensated motor can wreck it. > Which brings me to Hugh's air comp suggestion of using a pressure relieving regulator with back pressure relief > & setting it with an overpressure. I think this is a great idea & want to experiment with the stainless one he found > I have pulled 2 other types of these relieving regulators to bits & they look a good option. I am just not sure how > much flow the releiving function can handle & what pressure fluctuations there would be in the motor. Probably only a few psi. > Karl's motors would have 500 psi at 1000 ft to force out through his thruster shaft seals on his ascent. > Ladies turned up, got to go. > Alan > > > > > > > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 2:08 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > The voice of experience. I knew about the brush problems, having fought those carbonizing issues with Hymak oil compensated thrusters (Pisces and Aquarius). Perhaps someone will develop this further and generate a white paper for the psubs archives? Air compensation certainly works for Karl S. and could well be a viable and inexpensive alternative for those in the planning/building stages. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: psubs.org > Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 6:35 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > Hi psubbers, > in an attempt to get more information on the compensating issue > I contacted fugu subs, who I remembered used air compensation. > http://www.fugusub.com/ > They operate small semi dry ambients probably to a max of 100ft. > One thiught is that they operate in the warm waters of Florida where you would think > oil compensation would be an advantage in cooling the motors. > This is their reply..... > Hello Alan, > > I seldom respond to technical letters, but I thought it best to save you some headaches. Over the last thirty years, we have tried several types of oils for filling motors with, as some "authorities" had recommended. Here's what happens: On motors with brushes, the centrifugal force and pressure of the oil passing between brushes and rotors causes the brush to "lift off" of the rotor, causing power loss. The motor slows down dramatically from internal fluid frictions as well. Another issue is that some of these oils can wreck the vinyl insulate on wires and possibly o-rings. On brush motors, > oil is a failed prospect. Stick with an air system. Good luck with your project! > > > Kind regards, > > Russell J. Canfield > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 03:42:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 00:42:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1406446944.6054.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Alec, I was intending to also mention your experience as a balance to the negatives but got distracted. The problem is that I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories. Even with air compensation there are problems. Greg told me he had a problem with moisture getting in through the exhaust valves of a second stage regulators. I have put extension tubes around the exhaust manifolods of my ambient sub's compensating regulators to try & stop this. I dive mostly in sea water, which is not as forgiving as fresh, so want to get it right. Emile was telling me about repeated problems with one of his sub's thrusters, & he is now using expensive rim thrusters. I will?leave it up to him if he feels like sharing the details. The guys at Fugu sub with 30 years commercial experience are saying go with air, there are too many hasles with oil. All commercial oil compensating units have about 5psi overpressure which your system?doesn't have. So who is right?? Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: Private via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me.? Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine.? As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I ?turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade.? Best, Alec On Jul 26, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Vance, >I'm still plugging away on this one, looking at the pros & cons.? >If I wrote a white paper everyone that read it would end up more confused than when they started. >But this is a summary of what I've learned so far. Others may want to add or comment on this. >The main cause of electric motor failure is overheating. So there is a plus for oil compensation here >in that it transfers the heat to the casing. Most?electric motors rely on air cooling which we can't? >achieve underwater. Brushless motors disipate heat to the casing easier but are normally geared. >Emile has a 2hp protruar brushless motor but said it was noisy. >The Minnkota motors must be a robust design that can handle the heat build up while submerged. >Although I am wondering if there is heat transferance up the tube from the thruster to the control box, >with air circulation caused by the rotating motor. >The air compensation may work with trolling motors designed for high temperatures, but fail with other >motors. Or fail if the props are too large & put too much strain on the motors causing them to overheat. >In oil compensating the oil can lift the brushes, but this has been countered by using heavier spring tension on the brushes. >The wear of the carbon brushes causes the oil to become more conductive & cause arcing. >I have read of recomendations to change the oil every 10-20 hrs. >Oil causes the motor to run more slowly & less economically. >Greg mentioned that his compensating oil (I think WD40) was causing seals & other plastics to harden. >I experimented with WD40 & found it destroyed some plastics in hours. >Carsten & Emile moved to a thin expensive silicone oil. Emile then moved to rim thrusters. >Commercial oil compensating units have a 4-5 psi overpressure. However Carsten says that his units without >overpressure other than being mounted above the motor, can leak when out of water. But this brings in the? >other part of the equation which is the motor seals.(Don't know much about these, have to learn) >Another thing that Carsten mentioned was that the cooling of the oil can suck in water past the seal. However >I would have thought the system would remain ambient & his oil reservoir would release oil back in to the motor, >also a system with overpressure would stop this. >He also said that you can get water ingress into an oil filled motor & it survives, but one drop of salt water in? >an air compensated motor can wreck it. >Which brings me to Hugh's air comp suggestion of using a pressure relieving regulator with back pressure relief >& setting it with an overpressure. I think this is a great idea & want to experiment with the stainless one he found >?I have pulled 2 other types of these relieving regulators to bits & they look?a good option. I am just not sure how? >much flow the releiving function can handle & what pressure fluctuations?there would be in the motor. Probably only a few psi.? >Karl's motors would have 500 psi at 1000 ft to force out through?his thruster?shaft seals on his ascent. >Ladies turned up, got to go. >Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > From: via Personal_Submersibles >To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 2:08 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > > >The voice of experience. I knew about the brush problems, having fought those carbonizing issues with Hymak oil compensated thrusters (Pisces and Aquarius). Perhaps someone will develop this further and generate a white paper for the psubs archives? Air compensation certainly works for Karl S. and could well be a viable and inexpensive alternative for those in the planning/building stages. >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >To: psubs.org >Sent: Fri, Jul 25, 2014 6:35 pm >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > >Hi psubbers, >in an attempt to get more information on the compensating issue >I contacted fugu subs, who I remembered used air compensation. >http://www.fugusub.com/ > >They operate small semi dry ambients probably to a max of 100ft.? >One thiught is that they operate in the warm waters of Florida where you would think >oil compensation would be an advantage in cooling the motors. >This is their reply..... >Hello Alan, > >I seldom respond to technical letters, but I thought it best to save you some headaches.? Over the last thirty years, we have tried several types of oils for filling motors with, as some "authorities" had recommended.? Here's what happens:? On motors with brushes, the centrifugal force and pressure of the oil passing between brushes and rotors causes the brush to "lift off" of the rotor, causing power loss.? The motor slows down dramatically from internal fluid frictions as well.? Another issue is that some of these oils can wreck the vinyl insulate on wires and possibly o-rings.? On brush motors,? >oil is a failed prospect.? Stick with an air system.? Good luck with your project! > > >Kind regards, > >Russell J. Canfield > > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 05:36:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 02:36:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compensation Message-ID: <1406453765.60117.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The late model DW has?oil compensation with a short clear hose, just sayin Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 05:49:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 02:49:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compensation In-Reply-To: <1406453765.60117.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406453765.60117.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406454582.66110.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I can take it Hank, I guess we can grill Phil about it next Month. Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compensation The late model DW has?oil compensation with a short clear hose, just sayin Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 09:44:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:44:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <1406446944.6054.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> <1406446944.6054.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D50221.1010404@psubs.org> Alan, Everyone is correct...about their own experience. This is a Ford vs Chevy debate with neither system being a perfect solution. Primary use is likely going to dictate the best path to take, air comp if you can't sacrifice power reduction or risk brush issues in commercial operations, oil comp for simplicity in recreational operations. Alec's experience is a pretty good story for recreational diving. A 10 year life prorates to a cost of only $25/year for each MK101 and from a performance perspective he can't tell the difference between air/oil comp on a small minn-kota. JimK's 7-ton Bionic Guppy gets muscled around easily with three oil comp'd MK 101's so they obviously have plenty of power even if its less than it would be with air comp. That's enough evidence for me...no regulators, no extra gas to carry, no extra plumbing, no overpressure valves and no worries about maintenance or failure on all those small air compensated components. At $255 for a MK101 lower unit, I'll just create a replace-one-motor-a-year budget. No need to open the can, replace brushes, turn the armature; just replace it with a new one and I'll never have one motor that is more than four years old. So you probably just want to toss a coin and pick a method. Maybe start with air comp first on a new build because if you don't like it then converting to oil comp will potentially be easier than vice-versa. Jon On 7/27/2014 3:42 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Alec, > I was intending to also mention your experience as a balance to the > negatives > but got distracted. > The problem is that I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories. > Even with air compensation there are problems. Greg told me he had a > problem > with moisture getting in through the exhaust valves of a second stage > regulators. > I have put extension tubes around the exhaust manifolods of my ambient > sub's compensating > regulators to try & stop this. > I dive mostly in sea water, which is not as forgiving as fresh, so > want to get it right. > Emile was telling me about repeated problems with one of his sub's > thrusters, & he is now using > expensive rim thrusters. I will leave it up to him if he feels like > sharing the details. > The guys at Fugu sub with 30 years commercial experience are saying go > with air, there are too many hasles with oil. All commercial oil > compensating units have about 5psi overpressure which your system > doesn't have. So who is right? > Cheers Alan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 09:49:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:49:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53D5034F.3090405@psubs.org> Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? Jon On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it > thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. > > I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same > motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in > sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with > oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. > > Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and > therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both > work just fine. > > As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally > overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do > was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the > lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. > > > Best, > > Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 09:55:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:55:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R500 In-Reply-To: <53d189bb.0458440a.1647.188b@mx.google.com> References: <1406069656.41707.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1406078087.92153.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1743544B0BF7D-36B8-1B2D7@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1406086446.79035.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53cf4eb0.ceb2420a.702d.373e@mx.google.com> <1406119672.17713.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406119976.9355.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406122495.15166.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53CFBFA1.9010303@psubs.org> <1406129618.31148.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D020B6.6060004@psubs.org> <1406156951.88504.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406158917.45495.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53d16e8c.e734460a.44b2.123b@mx.google.com> <1406234711.49128.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53d189bb.0458440a.1647.188b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <53D504DD.3060606@psubs.org> I agree, those R-300 docs are first-rate and a great example of a well documented submarine. Thanks for uploading them and all the help you've given us Cliff. Jon On 7/24/2014 6:33 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Many thanks. If only it had search and replace function so I could > copy and alter!!! > > You are great on detail, Cliff. > > Cheers, Hugh > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 09:59:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:59:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <53D50221.1010404@psubs.org> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> <1406446944.6054.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D50221.1010404@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D177BA28F366C9-420-36974@webmail-d262.sysops.aol.com> Jon and all, As to replacement, I'm planning to carry a spare, rigged out and ready to go. Any sign of failure and I change it out with the back up, then the replaced thruster goes into overhaul. As Jon says, $250 bucks is cheap insurance, and carrying the extra means an hour's work to save a long-planned dive week-end from ruin by a failed o-ring. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 9:44 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Alan, Everyone is correct...about their own experience. This is a Ford vs Chevy debate with neither system being a perfect solution. Primary use is likely going to dictate the best path to take, air comp if you can't sacrifice power reduction or risk brush issues in commercial operations, oil comp for simplicity in recreational operations. Alec's experience is a pretty good story for recreational diving. A 10 year life prorates to a cost of only $25/year for each MK101 and from a performance perspective he can't tell the difference between air/oil comp on a small minn-kota. JimK's 7-ton Bionic Guppy gets muscled around easily with three oil comp'd MK 101's so they obviously have plenty of power even if its less than it would be with air comp. That's enough evidence for me...no regulators, no extra gas to carry, no extra plumbing, no overpressure valves and no worries about maintenance or failure on all those small air compensated components. At $255 for a MK101 lower unit, I'll just create a replace-one-motor-a-year budget. No need to open the can, replace brushes, turn the armature; just replace it with a new one and I'll never have one motor that is more than four years old. So you probably just want to toss a coin and pick a method. Maybe start with air comp first on a new build because if you don't like it then converting to oil comp will potentially be easier than vice-versa. Jon On 7/27/2014 3:42 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alec, I was intending to also mention your experience as a balance to the negatives but got distracted. The problem is that I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories. Even with air compensation there are problems. Greg told me he had a problem with moisture getting in through the exhaust valves of a second stage regulators. I have put extension tubes around the exhaust manifolods of my ambient sub's compensating regulators to try & stop this. I dive mostly in sea water, which is not as forgiving as fresh, so want to get it right. Emile was telling me about repeated problems with one of his sub's thrusters, & he is now using expensive rim thrusters. I will leave it up to him if he feels like sharing the details. The guys at Fugu sub with 30 years commercial experience are saying go with air, there are too many hasles with oil. All commercial oil compensating units have about 5psi overpressure which your system doesn't have. So who is right? Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 10:16:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 10:16:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <53D5034F.3090405@psubs.org> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> <53D5034F.3090405@psubs.org> Message-ID: Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it > marvel mystery oil? > > Jon > > > > On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; > air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. > > I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same > motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. > I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it > was not in the least noticeable to me. > > Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and > therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work > just fine. > > As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally > overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was > change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe > because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 10:25:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 10:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> <53D5034F.3090405@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D177BDB73DBE50-1FBC-354BC@webmail-d216.sysops.aol.com> I looked that up. 70% mineral oil, 24% stoddard solvent (turpentine), and 1% lard. How about that for a combination? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 10:17 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? Jon On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 15:24:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 07:24:35 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: <53D50221.1010404@psubs.org> References: <1406327495.50932.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D176F22ECD4C7D-25B4-33E03@webmail-m152.sysops.aol.com> <1406421703.70721.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <348A85D6-BDB2-479D-A0EE-E822DBA69613@gmail.com> <1406446944.6054.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D50221.1010404@psubs.org> Message-ID: <6F8694F2-A0F4-4A31-BC69-1D7207E28F22@yahoo.com> Jon, the purpose of my email covering everything I've heard about compensating was in response to Vance's suggestion that someone write a white paper on it. So I was more interested in bringing out all the facts rather than debating the issue. You bring out some more good points on the pros of a simple system. This thread was started by James who had bought expensive thrusters & wanted to get it right. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/07/2014, at 1:44 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > > Everyone is correct...about their own experience. This is a Ford vs Chevy debate with neither system being a perfect solution. Primary use is likely going to dictate the best path to take, air comp if you can't sacrifice power reduction or risk brush issues in commercial operations, oil comp for simplicity in recreational operations. > > Alec's experience is a pretty good story for recreational diving. A 10 year life prorates to a cost of only $25/year for each MK101 and from a performance perspective he can't tell the difference between air/oil comp on a small minn-kota. JimK's 7-ton Bionic Guppy gets muscled around easily with three oil comp'd MK 101's so they obviously have plenty of power even if its less than it would be with air comp. That's enough evidence for me...no regulators, no extra gas to carry, no extra plumbing, no overpressure valves and no worries about maintenance or failure on all those small air compensated components. At $255 for a MK101 lower unit, I'll just create a replace-one-motor-a-year budget. No need to open the can, replace brushes, turn the armature; just replace it with a new one and I'll never have one motor that is more than four years old. > > So you probably just want to toss a coin and pick a method. Maybe start with air comp first on a new build because if you don't like it then converting to oil comp will potentially be easier than vice-versa. > > Jon > > >> On 7/27/2014 3:42 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Alec, >> I was intending to also mention your experience as a balance to the negatives >> but got distracted. >> The problem is that I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories. >> Even with air compensation there are problems. Greg told me he had a problem >> with moisture getting in through the exhaust valves of a second stage regulators. >> I have put extension tubes around the exhaust manifolods of my ambient sub's compensating >> regulators to try & stop this. >> I dive mostly in sea water, which is not as forgiving as fresh, so want to get it right. >> Emile was telling me about repeated problems with one of his sub's thrusters, & he is now using >> expensive rim thrusters. I will leave it up to him if he feels like sharing the details. >> The guys at Fugu sub with 30 years commercial experience are saying go with air, there are too many hasles with oil. All commercial oil compensating units have about 5psi overpressure which your system doesn't have. So who is right? >> Cheers Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 17:08:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:08:18 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn't need compensation. Regards, Emile van Essen Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. They are dismantled and already provided with 18"bsp thread for air /oil compensation. The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? Jon On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 17:20:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 05:20:45 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Emile. Can you send link on Rotoque hubless thrusters ? Cliff > On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, > > I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. > Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn?t need compensation. > > Regards, Emile van Essen > > Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. > They are dismantled and already provided with 18?bsp thread for air /oil compensation. > The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? > > Jon > > > > On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. >> >> I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. >> >> Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. >> >> As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 17:30:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:30:42 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Cliff, http://www.rotorque-jet.de/ best regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 23:21 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Emile. Can you send link on Rotoque hubless thrusters ? Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn't need compensation. Regards, Emile van Essen Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. They are dismantled and already provided with 18"bsp thread for air /oil compensation. The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? Jon On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 18:00:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 06:00:52 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. Cliff > On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:30 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > > http://www.rotorque-jet.de/ > > best regards, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 23:21 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > > Emile. Can you send link on Rotoque hubless thrusters ? > > Cliff > >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> All, >> >> I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. >> Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn?t need compensation. >> >> Regards, Emile van Essen >> >> Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. >> They are dismantled and already provided with 18?bsp thread for air /oil compensation. >> The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. >> >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters >> >> Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. >>> >>> I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. >>> >>> Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. >>> >>> As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 18:26:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 06:26:14 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Emile, these thrusters look interesting. At the link I did not see any specs. Do you have specs? Cliff > On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:30 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > > http://www.rotorque-jet.de/ > > best regards, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 23:21 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > > Emile. Can you send link on Rotoque hubless thrusters ? > > Cliff > >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> All, >> >> I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. >> Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn?t need compensation. >> >> Regards, Emile van Essen >> >> Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. >> They are dismantled and already provided with 18?bsp thread for air /oil compensation. >> The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. >> >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters >> >> Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. >>> >>> I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. >>> >>> Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. >>> >>> As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 18:27:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 06:27:04 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DFAA5AD-4AAE-40A5-9D9F-10238FB1A9D0@sbcglobal.net> Also nice video of your boat! Cliff > On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:30 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > > http://www.rotorque-jet.de/ > > best regards, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 23:21 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters > > > Emile. Can you send link on Rotoque hubless thrusters ? > > Cliff > >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> All, >> >> I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. >> Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn?t need compensation. >> >> Regards, Emile van Essen >> >> Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. >> They are dismantled and already provided with 18?bsp thread for air /oil compensation. >> The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. >> >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 >> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters >> >> Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. >>> >>> I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. >>> >>> Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. >>> >>> As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 19:22:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:22:05 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53d5899e.e339440a.7d31.4c7e@mx.google.com> Those Rotorque units look great and seem like the answer to my prayers but the power for 40 kg thrust appears a little high. However, Emile says that they outperform the previous thrusters so are they being over conservative?? What are the MK-101?s figures like compared with Emile?s thrusters. What do each actually draw current wise at full chat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 28 July 2014 10:01 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:30 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, http://www.rotorque-jet.de/ best regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 23:21 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Emile. Can you send link on Rotoque hubless thrusters ? Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn?t need compensation. Regards, Emile van Essen Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. They are dismantled and already provided with 18?bsp thread for air /oil compensation. The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? Jon On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10161 (20140727) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 19:39:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53d5899e.e339440a.7d31.4c7e@mx.google.com> References: <53d5899e.e339440a.7d31.4c7e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8D1780B25A57CE0-20A8-3AA5E@webmail-va057.sysops.aol.com> And what is the cost? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 7:22 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Those Rotorque units look great and seem like the answer to my prayers but the power for 40 kg thrust appears a little high. However, Emile says that they outperform the previous thrusters so are they being over conservative?? What are the MK-101?s figures like compared with Emile?s thrusters. What do each actually draw current wise at full chat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 28 July 2014 10:01 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:30 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, http://www.rotorque-jet.de/ best regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 23:21 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Emile. Can you send link on Rotoque hubless thrusters ? Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I was using 3 CSt. Viscisity silicone oil. Works but dissolves only silicone parts. The stern thruster , which is used for surface cruising, is air compensated. Works now fine . The plumping is done in a way that eventual water in the thruster is expelled trough the 2nd stage while ascending. Now using side thrusters(for 80 operating hours) Rotoque hubless thrusters which doesn?t need compensation. Regards, Emile van Essen Ps. For the Euro subbers; I have 2 new Rhino VX80 ( 24 VDC 38 Kgf) in surplus. They are dismantled and already provided with 18?bsp thread for air /oil compensation. The can go for half new price . If someone interested, pleas contact offlist. Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 27 juli 2014 16:17 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air compensating thrusters Yes. It is extremely low viscosity and before using it, I left snips of the motor's cables in a little jar of it for some months to make sure the insulation was not affected. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, just for completeness, what oil do you use in your MK's? Is it marvel mystery oil? Jon On 7/26/2014 10:43 PM, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, honestly you're over-analyzing this one. I would summarize it thus; air and oil compensation both work just fine, pick either one. I've run Snoopy with both air and oil compensation, using the same motors. I could not tell the difference, either in power or even in sound. I do agree the motors must in theory lose some efficiency with oil, but it was not in the least noticeable to me. Personally I prefer oil because the system has no moving parts and therefore in my book is simpler and more reliable, but again... both work just fine. As for all the stuff about dissolving plastics and brushes, I finally overhauled the thrusters last year for the first time. All I had to do was change the seals and brushes, and I turned the commutator on the lathe because the copper had some wear. These parts had lasted a decade. Best, Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10161 (20140727) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 10161 (20140727) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 23:06:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:06:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts Jon On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air > or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a > standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 > amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. > > It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with > two power pins and one alignment pin. > > Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but > these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are > pressure compensating this is overkill. > > For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of > connectors are you using? > > Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in > the field. > > Cliff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 27 23:22:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D1782A590A01DF-31D0-381E4@webmail-m227.sysops.aol.com> Sizable, but it would do the job. Wonder what those bits cost. A mateable bulkhead connector at the motor housing hooked to a cabled bulkhead connector at the hull would make change outs quick and easy. If you had enough cable, you could even do an in-water replacement if you had to. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jul 27, 2014 11:07 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts Jon On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 00:20:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 12:20:09 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> Message-ID: <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. 10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. Cliff Cliff Redus > On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... > http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts > > Jon > > > >> On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >> >> It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. >> >> Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. >> >> For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >> >> Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >> >> Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 00:48:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 21:48:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. Alan ________________________________ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. Cliff Cliff Redus On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts Jon On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. Cliff _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 02:51:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:51:30 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think there is a big factor of safety. You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. Cliff > On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? > I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. > Alan > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. 10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. > > > The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. > > Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? > > There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. > > > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > > > >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > > Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... > http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts > > Jon > > > >> On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. > > It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. > > Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. > > For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? > > Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. > > Cliff > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 03:08:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 00:08:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff, as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, >what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >Alan > > > >________________________________ > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. > > > > >The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. > > >Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? > > >There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. > > > > > > >Cliff > > > >Cliff Redus > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts > >Jon > > > >On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. > > >It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? > > >Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? > > >For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? > > >Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. > > >Cliff > > >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 03:48:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:48:16 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> We need some clarification on this. I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. Cliff > On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. > That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. > Cheers Alan > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > I think there is a big factor of safety. You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. > > This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. > > > Cliff > > > >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >> I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >> Alan >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. 10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >> >> >> The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >> >> Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >> >> There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >> >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> >> >>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> >> >> Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... >> http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >> >> Jon >> >> >> >>> On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >> >> It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. >> >> Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. >> >> For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >> >> Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >> >> Cliff >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 04:13:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 01:13:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff,? you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. ? ?I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector? that was the determining factor. I will send them an email & post the results. Alan ________________________________ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors We need some clarification ?on this. ?I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, >as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >Cheers Alan > > > >________________________________ > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. > > >This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. > > > >Cliff > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Cliff, >>what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>Alan >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> >> >>Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >> >> >> >> >>The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >> >> >>Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >> >> >>There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >>http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >> >>Jon >> >> >> >>On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >> >> >>It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? >> >> >>Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? >> >> >>For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >> >> >>Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 08:21:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 13:21:57 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure Message-ID: Hi All, Fitted up my 10 wheeled skids at the weekend. They are a complete failure. I couldnt push the boat at all. The weight seemed to jam the axles solid and there was no shifting it all. The weight seemed to be all on the back 4 wheels on each side. Hopeless. After an hour or so of futile pushing, shoving and winching i gave up and put the skids back on. Ironically, its easier to slide the boat along on the skids with the winch! Anyway, I was quite surprised this didnt work, but there we go. Just got to put that one down to experience. I did drill, tap and fit plugs to my motors and the plugs do not leak, so at least some success there. James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 09:58:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 09:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D178831CB7EABC-1BE8-121F@webmail-va046.sysops.aol.com> No-tech works best sometimes. In the old days, Vicker's Oceanics operated Pisces boats, which have big aluminum skids. The subs lived in a shipboard hanger between dives and were physically dragged in and out to the A-frame launch area using wire rope and a winch. The skids ran in deck welded channel, well greased, and they slid right along with no problem, even though they weighed 10-12 tons (depending on the sub). Agricultural as all get out, but it was cheap and simple and worked a treat, more or less. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 8:22 am Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure Hi All, Fitted up my 10 wheeled skids at the weekend. They are a complete failure. I couldnt push the boat at all. The weight seemed to jam the axles solid and there was no shifting it all. The weight seemed to be all on the back 4 wheels on each side. Hopeless. After an hour or so of futile pushing, shoving and winching i gave up and put the skids back on. Ironically, its easier to slide the boat along on the skids with the winch! Anyway, I was quite surprised this didnt work, but there we go. Just got to put that one down to experience. I did drill, tap and fit plugs to my motors and the plugs do not leak, so at least some success there. James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 10:32:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:32:18 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure In-Reply-To: <8D178831CB7EABC-1BE8-121F@webmail-va046.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D178831CB7EABC-1BE8-121F@webmail-va046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Vance, I can actually slide the boat along on the skids. With the wheels, nothing. At least I now don't have to make any ramps or anything. The trailer is going in the water. ive made a 4m pole extension and am just going to shove it completely under the water. The trailer will disintegrate in a year or so and then i'll re-think the launch system. On 28 July 2014 14:58, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > No-tech works best sometimes. In the old days, Vicker's Oceanics operated > Pisces boats, which have big aluminum skids. The subs lived in a shipboard > hanger between dives and were physically dragged in and out to the A-frame > launch area using wire rope and a winch. The skids ran in deck welded > channel, well greased, and they slid right along with no problem, even > though they weighed 10-12 tons (depending on the sub). Agricultural as all > get out, but it was cheap and simple and worked a treat, more or less. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 8:22 am > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure > > Hi All, > > Fitted up my 10 wheeled skids at the weekend. They are a complete > failure. I couldnt push the boat at all. The weight seemed to jam the > axles solid and there was no shifting it all. The weight seemed to be all > on the back 4 wheels on each side. Hopeless. After an hour or so of > futile pushing, shoving and winching i gave up and put the skids back on. > Ironically, its easier to slide the boat along on the skids with the > winch! Anyway, I was quite surprised this didnt work, but there we go. > Just got to put that one down to experience. > > I did drill, tap and fit plugs to my motors and the plugs do not leak, > so at least some success there. > > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 11:03:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure In-Reply-To: References: <8D178831CB7EABC-1BE8-121F@webmail-va046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D1788C3946F8C8-2558-1B4F@webmail-m268.sysops.aol.com> That will work. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 10:32 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure Hi Vance, I can actually slide the boat along on the skids. With the wheels, nothing. At least I now don't have to make any ramps or anything. The trailer is going in the water. ive made a 4m pole extension and am just going to shove it completely under the water. The trailer will disintegrate in a year or so and then i'll re-think the launch system. On 28 July 2014 14:58, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No-tech works best sometimes. In the old days, Vicker's Oceanics operated Pisces boats, which have big aluminum skids. The subs lived in a shipboard hanger between dives and were physically dragged in and out to the A-frame launch area using wire rope and a winch. The skids ran in deck welded channel, well greased, and they slid right along with no problem, even though they weighed 10-12 tons (depending on the sub). Agricultural as all get out, but it was cheap and simple and worked a treat, more or less. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 8:22 am Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure Hi All, Fitted up my 10 wheeled skids at the weekend. They are a complete failure. I couldnt push the boat at all. The weight seemed to jam the axles solid and there was no shifting it all. The weight seemed to be all on the back 4 wheels on each side. Hopeless. After an hour or so of futile pushing, shoving and winching i gave up and put the skids back on. Ironically, its easier to slide the boat along on the skids with the winch! Anyway, I was quite surprised this didnt work, but there we go. Just got to put that one down to experience. I did drill, tap and fit plugs to my motors and the plugs do not leak, so at least some success there. James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 16:50:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 13:50:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector.? Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things.? As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end.? In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units.? MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit?not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes.?The MK motor controller is very nice.? It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V.? This?motor controller has a soft start built?in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so.? Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up.??This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load?that it would see if you just connect?motor directly to battery bank.? Also these controllers are potted. The second point?that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector.? Also our duty cycle is light. Could you fail this connector by overheating.?Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time.? As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Cliff,? you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. ? ?I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector? that was the determining factor. I will send them an email & post the results. Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors We need some clarification ?on this. ?I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, >as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >Cheers Alan > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. > > >This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. > > > >Cliff > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Cliff, >>what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>Alan >> >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> >> >>Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >> >> >> >> >>The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >> >> >>Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >> >> >>There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >>http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >> >>Jon >> >> >> >>On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >> >> >>It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? >> >> >>Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? >> >> >>For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >> >> >>Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 19:46:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:46:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, I made my own 10 pin penetrator and tested it to 1,500 feet in my window test chamber. It was quite simple, used threaded rod and just bolt the wires on. Hank On Monday, July 28, 2014 4:50:32 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector.? Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things.? As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end.? In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units.? MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit?not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes.?The MK motor controller is very nice.? It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V.? This?motor controller has a soft start built?in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so.? Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up.??This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load?that it would see if you just connect?motor directly to battery bank.? Also these controllers are potted. The second point?that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector.? Also our duty cycle is light. Could you fail this connector by overheating.?Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time.? As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Cliff,? you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. ? ?I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector? that was the determining factor. I will send them an email & post the results. Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors We need some clarification ?on this. ?I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, >as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >Cheers Alan > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. > > >This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. > > > >Cliff > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Cliff, >>what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>Alan >> >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> >> >>Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >> >> >> >> >>The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >> >> >>Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >> >> >>There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >>http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >> >>Jon >> >> >> >>On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >> >> >>It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? >> >> >>Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? >> >> >>For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >> >> >>Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 19:51:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:51:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure In-Reply-To: <8D1788C3946F8C8-2558-1B4F@webmail-m268.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D178831CB7EABC-1BE8-121F@webmail-va046.sysops.aol.com> <8D1788C3946F8C8-2558-1B4F@webmail-m268.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1406591498.76362.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, I hate that when that happens!? You can salvage the system with four solid steel wheels. Hank On Monday, July 28, 2014 11:03:29 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That will work. Vance -----Original Message----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 10:32 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure Hi?Vance, I can actually slide the boat along on the skids.? With the wheels, nothing.? At least I now don't have to make any ramps or anything.? The trailer is going in the water.? ive made a 4m pole extension and am just going to shove it completely under the water.? The trailer will disintegrate in a year or so and then i'll re-think the launch system. On 28 July 2014 14:58, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No-tech works best sometimes. In the old days, Vicker's Oceanics operated Pisces boats, which have big aluminum skids. The subs lived in a shipboard hanger between dives and were physically dragged in and out to the A-frame launch area using wire rope and a winch. The skids ran in deck welded channel, well greased, and they slid right along with no problem, even though they weighed 10-12 tons (depending on the sub). Agricultural as all get out, but it was cheap and simple and worked a treat, more or less. >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >To: personal_submersibles >Sent: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 8:22 am >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dismal Wheel Failure > > >Hi All, > > >Fitted up my 10 wheeled skids at the weekend. ?They are a complete failure. ?I couldnt push the boat at all. ?The weight seemed to jam the axles solid and there was no shifting it all. ?The weight seemed to be all on the back 4 wheels on each side. ? Hopeless. ?After an hour or so of futile pushing, shoving and winching i gave up and put the skids back on. ?Ironically, its easier to slide the boat along on the skids with the winch! ?Anyway, I was quite surprised this didnt work, but there we go. ?Just got to put that one down to experience. > > >I did drill, tap and fit plugs to my motors and the plugs do not leak, so at least some success there. > > >James > > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 20:43:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 17:43:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406594630.50756.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sending this again Clif. I sent it off with the attachment & didn't receive it. Trying again without attachment. Hi Cliff, I sent an email off?inquiring?about the connectors, however it does say 25A for the single contact rating, then connector rating two pins 25A; making a distinction between pin & connector ratings. Another subconn connector I looked at doubled the amp rating for submerged use. I don't know why the one we are looking at doesn't give that option unless the? connector material doesn't dissipate heat well. Maybe that question could be asked. David Columbo bought 4 Minnkota controllers for his 101s. He said they were pretty bulky units. They sound good though, and MK have all that?Field?experience. I am trying to build to G.L. standards & went in to a contract for technical advice. However they may annex me, as I told them I could fly to Germany from N.Z. & spend? an hour?with them & fly back again for less than they charged in their first bill. Anyway I'm still going down that track so can't use the BHB2M even though it may be safe. I found the problems that come with low volts & high amps on my ambient, which has 12V motors. If you want to go cheap you could just use blue globe cable glands, as long as the? wire is solid & round. Emile & Carsten use them & have one either side of the? through hull. Attached is a picture from inside the hull with wires going through blue globe cable glands. Not sure where the photo came from. I don't know whether Emile attaches the blue globes directly to his motors. Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector.? Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things.? As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end.? In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units.? MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit?not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes.?The MK motor controller is very nice.? It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V.? This?motor controller has a soft start built?in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so.? Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up.??This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load?that it would see if you just connect?motor directly to battery bank.? Also these controllers are potted. The second point?that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector.? Also our duty cycle is light. Could you fail this connector by overheating.?Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time.? As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Cliff,? you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. ? ?I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector? that was the determining factor. I will send them an email & post the results. Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors We need some clarification ?on this. ?I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, >as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >Cheers Alan > > >From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. > > >This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. > > > >Cliff > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Cliff, >>what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>Alan >> >> >>From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> >> >>Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >> >> >> >> >>The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >> >> >>Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >> >> >>There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >>http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >> >>Jon >> >> >> >>On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >> >> >>It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? >> >> >>Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? >> >> >>For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >> >> >>Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 28 21:34:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406597670.92009.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, a couple of more thoughts.... If you fitted an elbow in the bottom of the motor for the air compensation line you would have a water purge function when ascending as Emile said he was doing. Hopefully it's not necessary. The other thought is that depending on how you ran your air compensation system lines, you could easily change to an oil comp system if the motors were getting too hot or you felt it necessary or even just wanted to experiment to check the difference in power. The air compensating regulators would keep the oil at an over pressure & the air in the lines to the motor would take up any oil expansion. Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector.? Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things.? As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end.? In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units.? MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit?not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes.?The MK motor controller is very nice.? It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V.? This?motor controller has a soft start built?in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so.? Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up.??This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load?that it would see if you just connect?motor directly to battery bank.? Also these controllers are potted. The second point?that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector.? Also our duty cycle is light. Could you fail this connector by overheating.?Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time.? As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Cliff,? you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. ? ?I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector? that was the determining factor. I will send them an email & post the results. Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors We need some clarification ?on this. ?I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. Cliff On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, >as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >Cheers Alan > > >From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. > > >This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. > > > >Cliff > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Cliff, >>what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>Alan >> >> >>From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> >> >>Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >> >> >> >> >>The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >> >> >>Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >> >> >>There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >>http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >> >>Jon >> >> >> >>On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >> >> >>It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? >> >> >>Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? >> >> >>For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >> >> >>Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 02:05:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 23:05:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota 101 - thread spec In-Reply-To: <1406414784.9895.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406613905.25277.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Pete,

If you pay attention closely, Hank is a reincarnated soul from the Klondike era!

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 02:30:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:30:11 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4231A4ED-6B96-404F-8F67-8CD14A6F32CC@yahoo.com> Cliff, if you click on the exhibitions tag on the subConn site, it says there is an upcoming exhibition at the Deep Water Intervention Forum in Galveston TX on August 12. You might find a number of similar companies exhibiting as there was in NewOrleans. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 29/07/2014, at 8:50 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. > > My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector. Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things. As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end. > > In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units. MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes. The MK motor controller is very nice. It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V. This motor controller has a soft start built in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so. Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up. This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load that it would see if you just connect motor directly to battery bank. Also these controllers are potted. > > The second point that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector. Also our duty cycle is light. > > Could you fail this connector by overheating. Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time. > > As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. > > If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. > > Cliff > > > > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > Cliff, > you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. > I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. > From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector > that was the determining factor. > I will send them an email & post the results. > Alan > > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > We need some clarification on this. I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. > > I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. > > > Cliff > > > >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Cliff, >> as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >> That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >> Cheers Alan >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> I think there is a big factor of safety. You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. >> >> This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Cliff, >>> what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>> I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>> Alan >>> >>> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >>> >>> Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. 10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >>> >>> >>> The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >>> >>> Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >>> >>> There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>> >>> >>> Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... >>> http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >>> >>> It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. >>> >>> Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. >>> >>> For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >>> >>> Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 04:37:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:37:07 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <4231A4ED-6B96-404F-8F67-8CD14A6F32CC@yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4231A4ED-6B96-404F-8F67-8CD14A6F32CC@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5BCDC755-D62B-4B7B-98CE-CC6F1D846632@sbcglobal.net> Alan thanks for info. unfortunately I will be working in the outback that day. To bad. Looks like it could have been productive. Cliff > On Jul 29, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > if you click on the exhibitions tag on the subConn site, it says there is an > upcoming exhibition at the Deep Water Intervention Forum in Galveston TX > on August 12. You might find a number of similar companies exhibiting as there > was in NewOrleans. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 29/07/2014, at 8:50 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. >> >> My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector. Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things. As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end. >> >> In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units. MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes. The MK motor controller is very nice. It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V. This motor controller has a soft start built in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so. Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up. This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load that it would see if you just connect motor directly to battery bank. Also these controllers are potted. >> >> The second point that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector. Also our duty cycle is light. >> >> Could you fail this connector by overheating. Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time. >> >> As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. >> >> If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> Cliff, >> you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. >> I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. >> From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector >> that was the determining factor. >> I will send them an email & post the results. >> Alan >> >> >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> We need some clarification on this. I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. >> >> I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Cliff, >>> as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >>> That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >>> >>> I think there is a big factor of safety. You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. >>> >>> This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Cliff, >>>> what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>>> I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >>>> >>>> Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. 10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >>>> >>>> >>>> The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >>>> >>>> Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >>>> >>>> There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff Redus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... >>>> http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >>>> >>>> It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. >>>> >>>> Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. >>>> >>>> For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >>>> >>>> Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 04:54:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:54:25 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, what size of threaded rod, what type if metal , and what casting material and what kind of base fitting? Cliff Cliff Redus > On Jul 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > I made my own 10 pin penetrator and tested it to 1,500 feet in my window test chamber. > It was quite simple, used threaded rod and just bolt the wires on. > Hank > > > On Monday, July 28, 2014 4:50:32 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. > > My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector. Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things. As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end. > > In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units. MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes. The MK motor controller is very nice. It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V. This motor controller has a soft start built in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so. Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up. This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load that it would see if you just connect motor directly to battery bank. Also these controllers are potted. > > The second point that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector. Also our duty cycle is light. > > Could you fail this connector by overheating. Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time. > > As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. > > If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. > > Cliff > > > > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > Cliff, > you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. > I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. > From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector > that was the determining factor. > I will send them an email & post the results. > Alan > > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > We need some clarification on this. I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. > > I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. > > > Cliff > > > >> On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Cliff, >> as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >> That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >> Cheers Alan >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> I think there is a big factor of safety. You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. >> >> This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Cliff, >>> what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>> I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>> Alan >>> >>> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >>> >>> Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. 10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >>> >>> >>> The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >>> >>> Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >>> >>> There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>> >>> >>> Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can. What about this one... >>> http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >>> >>> It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. >>> >>> Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill. >>> >>> For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >>> >>> Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 08:11:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 05:11:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, I made my penetrator plate?to go in place of a window.? The plate is 1in thick 516-70 with 10 holes drilled?and taped to 11/16in.? The rods were ?sealed in the holes with poly urethane casting resin from ebay.??? Tested to 600 psi with no problems.? The 1/4 in rod is overkill but I was worried about overheating the? resin. I have made a lot of these penetrators in the past with a hardware store pipe thread bushing that I could screw into the hull.? I tested them to failure at well over 1,000 psi Hank On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 4:54:58 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, what size of threaded rod, what type if metal , and what casting material and what kind of base fitting? Cliff Cliff Redus On Jul 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, >I made my own 10 pin penetrator and tested it to 1,500 feet in my window test chamber. >It was quite simple, used threaded rod and just bolt the wires on. >Hank > > > >On Monday, July 28, 2014 4:50:32 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. > > >My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector.? Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things.? As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end.? > > >In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units.? MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit?not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes.?The MK motor controller is very nice.? It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V.? This?motor controller has a soft start built?in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so.? Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up.??This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load?that it would see if you just connect?motor directly to battery bank.? Also these controllers are potted. > > >The second point?that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector.? Also our duty cycle is light. > > >Could you fail this connector by overheating.?Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time.? > > >As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. > > >If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >Cliff,? >you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. >? ?I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. >From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector? >that was the determining factor. >I will send them an email & post the results. >Alan > > > > > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >We need some clarification ?on this. ?I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. > > >I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. > > > >Cliff > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hi Cliff, >>as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >>That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >>Cheers Alan >> >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> >> >>I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. >> >> >>This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Cliff, >>>what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>>I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>>Alan >>> >>> >>> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >>> >>> >>> >>>Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >>> >>> >>>Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >>> >>> >>>There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>>Cliff Redus >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >>>http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >>> >>>Jon >>> >>> >>> >>>On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >>> >>> >>>It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? >>> >>> >>>Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? >>> >>> >>>For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >>> >>> >>>Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 08:18:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 05:18:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, I should also mention, when testing these to failure, it is very uneventful, a minor little spray through a pin hole. It would take all day to fill a glass of water. Hank On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:11:51 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I made my penetrator plate?to go in place of a window.? The plate is 1in thick 516-70 with 10 holes drilled?and taped to 11/16in.? The rods were ?sealed in the holes with poly urethane casting resin from ebay.??? Tested to 600 psi with no problems.? The 1/4 in rod is overkill but I was worried about overheating the? resin. I have made a lot of these penetrators in the past with a hardware store pipe thread bushing that I could screw into the hull.? I tested them to failure at well over 1,000 psi Hank On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 4:54:58 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, what size of threaded rod, what type if metal , and what casting material and what kind of base fitting? Cliff Cliff Redus On Jul 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, >I made my own 10 pin penetrator and tested it to 1,500 feet in my window test chamber. >It was quite simple, used threaded rod and just bolt the wires on. >Hank > > > >On Monday, July 28, 2014 4:50:32 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Alan, I am leaning towards using the Subconn BHB2M bulkhead fitting for my MK-101's even with the 25A limitation noted by vendor if we confirm 25A is the limit for both pins. > > >My argument is that this is a general purpose wet matable bulkhead connector.? Vendor has to protect itself from generally ignorant population that do stupid things.? As such, I am sure they have conducted many worst case tests including 150-200% fully loaded of this 25A limit with the conductor in the air as apposed to submerged for days on end.? > > >In my case, I plan on using the motor controller that MK supplies for 36V systems and the MK resettable circuit breaker they recommend for the 101 lower units.? MK recommends in the paperwork that comes with the lower unit?not to run in the air for more than 2 minutes.?The MK motor controller is very nice.? It works off a 0-5VDC potentiometer with a large deadband around 2.5V.? This?motor controller has a soft start built?in so full on at 0 or 5 vdc causes the motor to ramp up over about 2 seconds or so.? Like wise full reversal of potentiometer causes the motor to ramp down then ramp up.??This soft start capability is designed to limit high initial current load?that it would see if you just connect?motor directly to battery bank.? Also these controllers are potted. > > >The second point?that makes the BHB2M work for this application is that it is installed on the thruster so that if the thruster is submerged, and if a prop is installed, ambient water is cooling both the motor and the connector.? Also our duty cycle is light. > > >Could you fail this connector by overheating.?Yes, don't use circuit protection, don't use motor controllers with a soft start, run the motor in air for long periods of time.? > > >As long as you use a bit of common sense, this connector which has 10 AWG pins which is the wire size recommended by the MK for their 101 lower unit, it should work just fine. > > >If someone can identify the same basic bulkhead connector with say 8 AWG pins that does not cost $2000 per connector, we of course should look at this but I for one am comfortable that for my application this will work IF the cost is reasonable. > > >Cliff > > > > > > > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:13 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >Cliff,? >you had to go all the way over there, what a long haul. >? ?I am quoting this from advice I had years ago & I think it was from one of their reps. >From what I remember, it was the combined heat from the 2 wires in the connector? >that was the determining factor. >I will send them an email & post the results. >Alan > > > > > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:48 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > >We need some clarification ?on this. ?I am reading this as this connector will handle 25 amps per pin so with a FS 2 we are probably good. > > >I have had no time to look at this as in Perth on business. > > > >Cliff > > > > >On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hi Cliff, >>as I understand it the connector amp rating is 25 amps for the 2 pin unit. >>That means 12.5 amps per pin, which is about 1/4 of what you want. >>Cheers Alan >> >> >> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:51 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >> >> >> >>I think there is a big factor of safety. ?You get the same issue when you look at agency's specs on how much current a 10awg wire can handle. ?Having said that MK sells there lower units with 10 awg wire. ?US coast guard would have 6 awg for this current. >> >> >>This needs to be looked at but my guess is that this will handle it. >> >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Cliff, >>>what about the max contact amp ratings on those connnectors? >>>I thought you said you needed something that could take 46 amps. >>>Alan >>> >>> >>> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:20 PM >>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors >>> >>> >>> >>>Jon, a BHB2M to me looks about right. ?10AWG pins to match the 10AWG for the MK-101. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>The port on the MK-101 is 1-1/8 x 18 ? ?So it would be easy to machine an adaptor to accept this 5/8-18 male BH fitting. >>> >>> >>>Can you get a price on these with the Psub discount? >>> >>> >>>There probably enough space to drill a 1/16 hole in this machined part and connect a 1/4" Swagelok fitting perpendicular to the axis to connect an air compensation connection if you did not want to drill and tap into body of MK-101. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>>Cliff Redus >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>Agreed, but we should take advantage of our SUBCONN discount if we can.? What about this one... >>>http://www.subconn.com/connectors/power-series/power-series-battery-2-contacts >>> >>>Jon >>> >>> >>> >>>On 7/27/2014 6:00 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Since so many of us are using or planning on using MK-101s either air or oil compensated, it would be nice if we could move towards a standard connector. ?These thrusters are 36v with max current of 46 amps. ?The lower unit comes with two 10 AWG wires. >>> >>> >>>It would be nice if the connector was a male bulk head connector with two power pins and one alignment pin. ? >>> >>> >>>Could go with an off the shelf connector like an impulse HDBH-2-MP but these are expensive as rated for depth. ?In our case since we are pressure compensating this is overkill.? >>> >>> >>>For those of you that have MK-101 or MK-80 thrusters, what type of connectors are you using? >>> >>> >>>Like Vance, I am planning to have a spare that could be swapped out in the field. >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 08:34:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 08:34:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 08:49:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 08:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D17942BA4C9773-3A4-7469@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com> Excellent news. Sign me up for an order this fall. Going to need eight, and cables. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 8:34 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 08:51:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 20:51:54 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: Do they have a spec sheet for high power SS BHB2M ? This sounds like it might be what we are looking for ? Cliff > On Jul 29, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 09:23:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (seaquestor@gmail.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 06:23:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Message-ID: <31jboffcix37geftp8jxowpl.1406640218520@email.android.com> Hey Jon, I'll take 6 in stainless as well. Who do I contact? Best Regards, David Colombo SeaQuestor Industries 804 College Ave. Santa Rosa, CA. 707.536.1424 Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Do they have a spec sheet for high power SS BHB2M ? This sounds like it might be what we are looking for ? > > >Cliff > >> On Jul 29, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 09:43:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:43:06 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and the BHB2M at the MK-101. I don't think you want male power pins hull side. If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed pins. In other words you want it like a house receptical. Cliff Cliff Redus > On Jul 29, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 09:56:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:56:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> Spec sheet is at PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> References -> Publications -> Subconn Underwater Connectors or http://www.psubs.org/reference/publications/subconn/powerbattery.pdf On 7/29/2014 9:43 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and the BHB2M at the MK-101. I don't think you want male power pins hull side. If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed pins. In other words you want it like a house receptical. > > Cliff > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 10:09:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:09:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <31jboffcix37geftp8jxowpl.1406640218520@email.android.com> References: <31jboffcix37geftp8jxowpl.1406640218520@email.android.com> Message-ID: <53D7AB0F.9010609@psubs.org> Members can purchase through PSUBS. Since we have multiple interested parties we should try for a consolidated group order unless any of you have an immediate need. They only have four brass models in stock and lead time for SS or brass is 4-6 weeks. I'll need your shipping address and there will be shipping charges from Subconn. Once I have the shipping address, quantity, and style (brass or SS) I can get an exact quote including shipping. You can then send me a check. Jon On 7/29/2014 9:23 AM, seaquestor at gmail.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey Jon, I'll take 6 in stainless as well. Who do I contact? > > /Best Regards,/ > /David Colombo/ > /SeaQuestor Industries/ > / > / > /804 College Ave./ > /Santa Rosa, CA./ > /707.536.1424/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 10:15:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 07:15:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Cliff, I agree, nothing worse than leaving the contacts exposed and dropping a wrench on it. Not to mention the writing of the safety Manuel with exposed contacts. On Jul 29, 2014 6:44 AM, "Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and > the BHB2M at the MK-101. I don't think you want male power pins hull side. > If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector > and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed > pins. In other words you want it like a house receptical. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > > > On Jul 29, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They > have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, > titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is > below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. > > > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 10:32:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D7AB0F.9010609@psubs.org> References: <31jboffcix37geftp8jxowpl.1406640218520@email.android.com> <53D7AB0F.9010609@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D179511CBF007A-2580-98AB@webmail-vd008.sysops.aol.com> Jon, I won't have the ready green for mine until October, give or take. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 10:09 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Members can purchase through PSUBS. Since we have multiple interested parties we should try for a consolidated group order unless any of you have an immediate need. They only have four brass models in stock and lead time for SS or brass is 4-6 weeks. I'll need your shipping address and there will be shipping charges from Subconn. Once I have the shipping address, quantity, and style (brass or SS) I can get an exact quote including shipping. You can then send me a check. Jon On 7/29/2014 9:23 AM, seaquestor at gmail.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Jon, I'll take 6 in stainless as well. Who do I contact? Best Regards, David Colombo SeaQuestor Industries 804 College Ave. Santa Rosa, CA. 707.536.1424 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 10:40:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 02:40:55 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <83F052B5-46BE-4CB0-9773-6B5445C04D48@yahoo.com> Good price Jon, Is there a drawing for this anywhere? The cable diameter is 16.3mm which is bigger than the product we were looking at yesterday. So I am wondering if the other dimensions have increased. If you get the opportunity can you pick their brains and find out why one of their connectors has an in water & out of water rating. But these don't. Also does he feel that if these had an in water only use, that the amp per unit rating could be higher. Thanks, Alan Sent from my iPad > On 30/07/2014, at 2:15 am, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, I agree, nothing worse than leaving the contacts exposed and dropping a wrench on it. Not to mention the writing of the safety Manuel with exposed contacts. >> On Jul 29, 2014 6:44 AM, "Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and the BHB2M at the MK-101. I don't think you want male power pins hull side. If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed pins. In other words you want it like a house receptical. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> >> > On Jul 29, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. >> > >> > Jon >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 10:53:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 02:53:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> Jon & all, just got an email from a subconn rep who told me the opposite. He said you can run 25 amps per pin. How are we supposed to get it right if they can't? I have asked him to re-check this. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 30/07/2014, at 12:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 11:29:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 03:29:45 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just got a re - confirmation email that has been copied below. Now I am really confused. Jon is confirming what I remembered a rep told me a few years ago; that the rating is per connector not per pin. Now I am getting a different answer....... Hi Alan, I called the factory and talked to Rance Dexter which is one the main Engineers, he confirmed that you can run 25 Amps per pin. Please contact me if you have any more questions. Regards, Jacobo Aguilar SubConn Sales Email: jag at macartney.com Sent from my iPad > On 30/07/2014, at 2:53 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon & all, > just got an email from a subconn rep who told me the opposite. > He said you can run 25 amps per pin. > How are we supposed to get it right if they can't? > I have asked him to re-check this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 30/07/2014, at 12:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 11:49:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 03:49:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> More connector thoughts. Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have a penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the cable for fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. I am not hot on this subject, just learning. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 30/07/2014, at 3:29 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just got a re - confirmation email that has been copied below. > Now I am really confused. > Jon is confirming what I remembered a rep told me a few years ago; > that the rating is per connector not per pin. > Now I am getting a different answer....... > Hi Alan, > > I called the factory and talked to Rance Dexter which is one the main Engineers, he confirmed that you can run 25 Amps per pin. > > Please contact me if you have any more questions. > > Regards, > > > > Jacobo Aguilar > > SubConn Sales > > Email: jag at macartney.com > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 30/07/2014, at 2:53 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Jon & all, >> just got an email from a subconn rep who told me the opposite. >> He said you can run 25 amps per pin. >> How are we supposed to get it right if they can't? >> I have asked him to re-check this. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 30/07/2014, at 12:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 11:55:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 11:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D1795CAA8FF518-21F8-9DD3@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> Alan, I've used both. A bulkhead connector and cable with the mateable plug on the tag end for the thru-hull penetrator, then a wet mateable fitting on the thruster itself. It makes changing a thruster very simple and keeps the clutter down, and might be a little cheaper when bought as a set. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 11:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors More connector thoughts. Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have a penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the cable for fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. I am not hot on this subject, just learning. Alan Sent from my iPad On 30/07/2014, at 3:29 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just got a re - confirmation email that has been copied below. Now I am really confused. Jon is confirming what I remembered a rep told me a few years ago; that the rating is per connector not per pin. Now I am getting a different answer....... Hi Alan, I called the factory and talked to Rance Dexter which is one the main Engineers, he confirmed that you can run 25 Amps per pin. Please contact me if you have any more questions. Regards, Jacobo Aguilar SubConn Sales Email: jag at macartney.com Sent from my iPad On 30/07/2014, at 2:53 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon & all, just got an email from a subconn rep who told me the opposite. He said you can run 25 amps per pin. How are we supposed to get it right if they can't? I have asked him to re-check this. Alan Sent from my iPad On 30/07/2014, at 12:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 12:47:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:47:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <8D1795CAA8FF518-21F8-9DD3@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> <8D1795CAA8FF518-21F8-9DD3@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Alan, What about using their 4 pin which is rated at 50amps and gang a pair of the wires and either side of the connector. The interesting thing is that the mk101 connector thruster to controller is a 1/4" flat blade connector tied to the 8 ga wires with crimp connector. Yet the wet connector uses 8ga on the 60cm inline cable and 10ga on the 30cm Bh leads. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:55 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I've used both. A bulkhead connector and cable with the mateable plug on > the tag end for the thru-hull penetrator, then a wet mateable fitting on > the thruster itself. It makes changing a thruster very simple and keeps the > clutter down, and might be a little cheaper when bought as a set. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 11:49 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > More connector thoughts. > Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? > I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have > a > penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the > cable for > fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & > connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. > I am not hot on this subject, just learning. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 30/07/2014, at 3:29 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just got a re - confirmation email that has been copied below. > Now I am really confused. > Jon is confirming what I remembered a rep told me a few years ago; > that the rating is per connector not per pin. > Now I am getting a different answer....... > Hi Alan, > > I called the factory and talked to Rance Dexter which is one the main > Engineers, he confirmed that you can run 25 Amps per pin. > > Please contact me if you have any more questions. > > Regards, > > > Jacobo Aguilar > *SubConn Sales* > Email: jag at macartney.com > > Sent from my iPad > > On 30/07/2014, at 2:53 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Jon & all, > just got an email from a subconn rep who told me the opposite. > He said you can run 25 amps per pin. > How are we supposed to get it right if they can't? > I have asked him to re-check this. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 30/07/2014, at 12:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Talked to Subconn this morning. The ratings are per unit, not pin. They > have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, > titanium, and stainless. Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is > below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. > > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 13:22:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D7D870.2030002@psubs.org> How will the penetrator connect to the MK housing? Do you mean having subconn manufacture that end of the cable with threads to match the MK stub? On 7/29/2014 11:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > More connector thoughts. > Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? > I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not > have a > penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the > cable for > fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & > connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. > I am not hot on this subject, just learning. > Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 13:42:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:42:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D7D870.2030002@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> <53D7D870.2 030002@psubs.org> Message-ID: <31F6DB8C-E90A-467C-AFFB-E8051260A538@AOL.com> Cut the MK tube socket down to a half inch or so, then turn a filler piece tapped to match the MK threads and machined to take the Subconn. With a compensated motor, you could do the adapter with PVC or delrin. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 29, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > How will the penetrator connect to the MK housing? Do you mean having subconn manufacture that end of the cable with threads to match the MK stub? > > >> On 7/29/2014 11:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> More connector thoughts. >> Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? >> I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have a >> penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the cable for >> fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & >> connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. >> I am not hot on this subject, just learning. >> Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 13:58:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:58:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D7E0C5.101@psubs.org> Alan, I think the confusion stems from the fact that SubConn uses one datasheet for multiple pin configurations. The per-pin-rating is 25 amps, but the overall connector rating is 50 amps regardless of the number of pins in the configuration. So a three pin configuration should only carry 16.6 amps per pin, and a four pin configuration should only carry 12.5 amps per pin, to stay within the total connector rating of 50 amps. Perhaps this is obvious to an electrical engineer but seems rather confusing to me. It would be nice to see a separate data sheet for each pin configuration. So perhaps the "how many amps per pin" question was a bit specific for an engineer who was probably considering the physical and electrical capabilities of a single pin and not taking into account the actual application. Anyway, I will be talking to SubConn this afternoon to get it straightened out once and for all. Jon On 7/29/2014 11:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Just got a re - confirmation email that has been copied below. > Now I am really confused. > Jon is confirming what I remembered a rep told me a few years ago; > that the rating is per connector not per pin. > Now I am getting a different answer....... > > Hi Alan, > > I called the factory and talked to Rance Dexter which is one the main > Engineers, he confirmed that you can run 25 Amps per pin. > > Please contact me if you have any more questions. > > Regards, > > Jacobo Aguilar > > /SubConn Sales/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 14:01:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 14:01:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <31F6DB8C-E90A-467C-AFFB-E8051260A538@AOL.com> References: <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> <53D7D870.2 030002@psubs.org> <31F6DB8C-E90A-467C-AFFB-E8051260A538@AOL.com> Message-ID: <53D7E197.6030301@psubs.org> Sounds like more work than potting but we'll have to see how the price point compares to just connectors alone. Jon On 7/29/2014 1:42 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cut the MK tube socket down to a half inch or so, then turn a filler piece tapped to match the MK threads and machined to take the Subconn. With a compensated motor, you could do the adapter with PVC or delrin. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 29, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> How will the penetrator connect to the MK housing? Do you mean having subconn manufacture that end of the cable with threads to match the MK stub? >> >> >>> On 7/29/2014 11:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> More connector thoughts. >>> Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? >>> I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have a >>> penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the cable for >>> fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & >>> connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. >>> I am not hot on this subject, just learning. >>> Alan >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 15:07:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 15:07:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D7E0C5.101@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <53D7E0C5.101@psubs.org> Message-ID: <53D7F0F6.3050207@psubs.org> Talked with Jennifer Stewart at MJ Stewart which is the distributor for SubConn in the US. She confirmed what I wrote below. Each pin is rated for 25 amps but the BHB series connector material has a max rating of 50 amps. Divide the connector rating by number of pins to find the total amps per pin. In short, the two pin configuration is adequate for the MK 101's. Also had a short conversation about custom cables. I need someone to come up with a simple spec...connectors, cable length, wire gauge and I can get a quote from them with that info. She said quantity will be important to keep the price down...ten is a good number, 15 is a better number (her words). Jon On 7/29/2014 1:58 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I think the confusion stems from the fact that SubConn uses one > datasheet for multiple pin configurations. The per-pin-rating is 25 > amps, but the overall connector rating is 50 amps regardless of the > number of pins in the configuration. So a three pin configuration > should only carry 16.6 amps per pin, and a four pin configuration > should only carry 12.5 amps per pin, to stay within the total > connector rating of 50 amps. Perhaps this is obvious to an electrical > engineer but seems rather confusing to me. It would be nice to see a > separate data sheet for each pin configuration. > > So perhaps the "how many amps per pin" question was a bit specific for > an engineer who was probably considering the physical and electrical > capabilities of a single pin and not taking into account the actual > application. Anyway, I will be talking to SubConn this afternoon to > get it straightened out once and for all. > > Jon > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 16:42:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:42:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D7D870.2030002@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> <53D7D870.2030002@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi Jon, I am having a short shaft machined to screw into the Mk treads, with a hollow bore, and a series of side taps that will be be used for temp sensors, and for compensating (oil or air not chosen yet). The mk wires will be attached to the end of the outlet side of the subcon connector and threaded thru a blueglobe seal. creating a pig tail assembly. I am not using the Mk shaft as the attachment point for the thrusters as I have a kort nozzle assembly for attachment to the sub body. Designed for ease of removal and bench inspection and optional compensation after future testing with the sensors on heat build up. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > How will the penetrator connect to the MK housing? Do you mean having > subconn manufacture that end of the cable with threads to match the MK stub? > > > > On 7/29/2014 11:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > More connector thoughts. > Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? > I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have > a > penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the > cable for > fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & > connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. > I am not hot on this subject, just learning. > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 18:15:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 15:15:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. ?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Spec sheet is at PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> References -> Publications -> Subconn Underwater Connectors or http://www.psubs.org/reference/publications/subconn/powerbattery.pdf On 7/29/2014 9:43 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and the BHB2M at the MK-101.? I don't think you want male power pins hull side.? If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed pins.? In other words you want it like a house receptical. > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 18:33:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 15:33:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D7E0C5.101@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <53D7E0C5.101@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406673205.57458.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Jon, I have copied my question to the rep below. I thought it was clear but it could have got lost in translation. To SubConn's credit they do have an amp rating which a lot of other manufacturers don't seem to be showing. Alan Hello, I am looking at your subconn 2 pin underwater connector, "Power Series, Battery 2 contacts". In the connector specifications it states that a single pin connector is rated 600v @ 25 Amp. & the 2 pin connector is also rated 600v @ 25 Amp. With regard to the 2 pin connector does this mean that if I am running a motor through this connector?that I can only have 12.5 Amps? per pin? Thanks. Alan James ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Alan, I think the confusion stems from the fact that SubConn uses one datasheet for multiple pin configurations.? The per-pin-rating is 25 amps, but the overall connector rating is 50 amps regardless of the number of pins in the configuration.? So a three pin configuration should only carry 16.6 amps per pin, and a four pin configuration should only carry 12.5 amps per pin, to stay within the total connector rating of 50 amps.? Perhaps this is obvious to an electrical engineer but seems rather confusing to me.? It would be nice to see a separate data sheet for each pin configuration. So perhaps the "how many amps per pin" question was a bit specific for an engineer who was probably considering the physical and electrical capabilities of a single pin and not taking into account the actual application.? Anyway, I will be talking to SubConn this afternoon to get it straightened out once and for all. Jon On 7/29/2014 11:29 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just got a re - confirmation email that has been copied below. Now I am really confused. Jon is confirming what I remembered a rep told me a few years ago; that the rating is per connector not per pin. Now I am getting a different answer....... Hi Alan, ? I called the factory and talked to Rance Dexter which is one the main Engineers, he confirmed that you can run 25 Amps per pin. ? Please contact me if you have any more questions. ? Regards, ? ? Jacobo Aguilar SubConn Sales _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 18:37:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:37:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not only that, if I remember correctly the classification agencies require each polarity to go through a separate penetrator. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, > I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M. There is > a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M. For the sake of > argument, lets call it BHB2M* . If I understand what the Subconn rep > said, the BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a > MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A > in teach wire / pin. For non commercial personal applications I can live > with this as they have a big factor of safety but for those that are trying > to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies > like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within > vendor specifications. They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., > 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:56 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > Spec sheet is at PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> References -> > Publications -> Subconn Underwater Connectors > or > http://www.psubs.org/reference/publications/subconn/powerbattery.pdf > > > > On 7/29/2014 9:43 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and > the BHB2M at the MK-101. I don't think you want male power pins hull > side. If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead > connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these > exposed pins. In other words you want it like a house receptical. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 18:38:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 15:38:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> <53D7D870.2030002@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406673534.3317.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> David, I am a few emails behind here, but that is exactly the solution I was thinking of. One problem I envisaged with the short shaft section that comes out of the motor, is how do you attach the wires. Connections can get pretty bulky especially after insulating them. You can't stuff excess wire down in to the motor. Also you would have to have room to twist the wires in the opposite direction to that of the connector? prior to screwing in the connector. I am not sure if it is easy to pull the motor apart &? attach?the wires from a connector straight to the motor.? The blue globe cable gland have an adaptor that you can screw the blue globes in to. If you used an adaptor you would create more room for pulling the wire connections through. If as I had suggested earlier, we had taylor made connectors with fittings on both ends, it could be problematic with large holes being bored through exostructure to get from hull to motor. I am thinking of situations like the R300 where the cable may need to penetrate a ballast tank. Alan Sent from my iPad On 30/07/2014, at 8:42 am, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, I am having a short shaft machined to screw into the Mk treads, with a hollow bore, and a series of side taps that will be be used for temp sensors, and for compensating (oil or air not chosen yet). The mk wires will be attached to the end of the outlet side of the subcon connector and threaded thru a blueglobe seal. creating a pig tail assembly. I am not using the Mk shaft as the attachment point for the thrusters as I have a kort nozzle assembly for attachment to the sub body. Designed for ease of removal and bench inspection and optional compensation after future testing with the sensors on heat build up. > > > >Best Regards, >David Colombo > >804 College Ave >Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >(707) 536-1424 >www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > >On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >>How will the penetrator connect to the MK housing?? Do you mean having subconn manufacture that end of the cable with threads to match the MK stub? >> >> >> >>On 7/29/2014 11:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>More connector thoughts. >>>Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? >>>I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have a >>>penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the cable for? >>>fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & >>>connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. >>>I am not hot on this subject, just learning. >>>Alan >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 18:43:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 15:43:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406673825.78095.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Alec, I was under that impression also, but when I read through G.L. it seemed to apply to the battery terminals only. Not 100% sure but this would?make more sense. Alan ________________________________ From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Not only that, if I remember correctly the classification agencies require each polarity to go through a separate penetrator. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > >If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > >?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > >From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:56 PM > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > > >Spec sheet is at PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> References -> >Publications -> Subconn Underwater Connectors >or >http://www.psubs.org/reference/publications/subconn/powerbattery.pdf > > > > >On 7/29/2014 9:43 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and the BHB2M at the MK-101.? I don't think you want male power pins hull side.? If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed pins.? In other words you want it like a house receptical. >> >> Cliff >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 19:30:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:30:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406673825.78095.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406673825.78095.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406676635.70708.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I have drilled and taped 1/4 pipe holes in the motor head (pointy end) and connected the wires to home made penetrators.? Easy peezy, of coarse you can make this as complicated as you like.? :-) Hank On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 6:46:47 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, I was under that impression also, but when I read through G.L. it seemed to apply to the battery terminals only. Not 100% sure but this would?make more sense. Alan ________________________________ From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Not only that, if I remember correctly the classification agencies require each polarity to go through a separate penetrator. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > >If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > >?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:56 PM > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > > >Spec sheet is at PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> References -> >Publications -> Subconn Underwater Connectors >or >http://www.psubs.org/reference/publications/subconn/powerbattery.pdf > > > > >On 7/29/2014 9:43 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and the BHB2M at the MK-101.? I don't think you want male power pins hull side.? If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed pins.? In other words you want it like a house receptical. >> >> Cliff >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 19:41:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 19:41:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406673205.57458.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <53D7E0C5.101@psubs.org> <1406673205.57458.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D83111.9020404@psubs.org> Alan, The specs on the SubConn site are old and incorrect. I discussed this with Jennifer and she said that information has not been updated yet. You need to go through the Macartney website at http://macartney.com/systems/infrastructure/subconn%C2%AE which has the updated specs. Those specs make it very clear, 25 amps per pin, 50 amps per connector. If you want to confirm you need to ask your question in reference to the 3 or 4 pin model. By referencing the 2 pin model as you did, the answer to your question is "no, 25 amps" because the connector housing is rated at 50 amps and you can run 25 amps through each pin. Jon On 7/29/2014 6:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Jon, > I have copied my question to the rep below. > I thought it was clear but it could have got lost in translation. > To SubConn's credit they do have an amp rating which a lot of other > manufacturers don't seem to be showing. > Alan > Hello, > I am looking at your subconn 2 pin underwater connector, > "Power Series, Battery 2 contacts". > In the connector specifications it states that a single pin connector > is rated 600v @ 25 Amp. > & the 2 pin connector is also rated 600v @ 25 Amp. With regard to the > 2 pin connector does > this mean that if I am running a motor through this connector that I > can only have 12.5 Amps > per pin? Thanks. > Alan James > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 19:46:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:46:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <04427C1A-7A12-4408-8920-BE889B62D779@yahoo.com> <8D1795CAA8FF518-21F8-9DD3@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1406677570.99933.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> David, I'm a bit late here but I think we have now confirmed that it's? 50 amps combined so 12.5 per pin on the 4 pin. I haven't checked if G.L. require some sort of safety margin. ie if the motor draws x amount of amps max, does the wiring system have to be rated for a certain % above this. If I follow you right, the 10 gauge Bh leads go inside the hull. Maybe it's to do with the? insulation around the inline cable causing a heat build up. Just guessing. Alan ________________________________ From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Alan, What about using their 4 pin which is rated at 50amps and gang a pair of the wires and either side of the connector. The interesting thing is that the mk101 connector? thruster to controller is a 1/4"?flat blade connector?tied to the 8 ga wires with crimp connector.? Yet the wet connector uses 8ga on the 60cm inline cable?and 10ga on the?30cm Bh leads.? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:55 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, >I've used both. A bulkhead connector and cable with the mateable plug on the tag end for the thru-hull penetrator, then a wet mateable fitting on the thruster itself. It makes changing a thruster very simple and keeps the clutter down, and might be a little cheaper when bought as a set. >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Sent: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 11:49 am >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > >More connector thoughts. >Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors? >I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have a >penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the cable for? >fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator & >connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way. >I am not hot on this subject, just learning. >Alan > > > > > >Sent from my iPad > >On 30/07/2014, at 3:29 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Just got a re - confirmation email that has been copied below. >>Now I am really confused. >>Jon is confirming what I remembered a rep told me a few years ago; >>that the rating is per connector not per pin. >>Now I am getting a different answer....... >>Hi Alan, >>? >>I called the factory and talked to Rance Dexter which is one the main Engineers, he confirmed that you can run 25 Amps per pin. >>? >>Please contact me if you have any more questions. >>? >>Regards, >>? >>? >>Jacobo Aguilar >>SubConn Sales >>Email:?jag at macartney.com >>Sent from my iPad >> >>On 30/07/2014, at 2:53 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Jon & all, >>>just got an email from a subconn rep who told me the opposite. >>>He said you can run 25 amps per pin. >>>How are we supposed to get it right if they can't? >>>I have asked him to re-check this. >>>Alan >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>>On 30/07/2014, at 12:34 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>Talked to Subconn this morning. ?The ratings are per unit, not pin. They have a high power BHB2M rated for 50 amps (25 per pin) in brass, aluminum, titanium, and stainless. ?Pricing for PSUBS members on 50 amp brass is below $90, 50 amp stainless is below $100. >>>> >>> >>>> >>>Jon >>>> >>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 19:52:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:52:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D83111.9020404@psubs.org> References: <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <6B7762A6-361D-4DFE-8DE1-13CBD9232FF0@yahoo.com> <53D7E0C5.101@psubs.org> <1406673205.57458.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83111.9020404@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406677953.20085.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Jon, thanks for that link. No I asked about the 25 amp 2 pin connector we were discussing earlier. But I am happy with the answer you got as it confirms what I was told a couple of years ago. Alan ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Alan, The specs on the SubConn site are old and incorrect.? I discussed this with Jennifer and she said that information has not been updated yet.? You need to go through the Macartney website at http://macartney.com/systems/infrastructure/subconn%C2%AE which has the updated specs.? Those specs make it very clear, 25 amps per pin, 50 amps per connector. If you want to confirm you need to ask your question in reference to the 3 or 4 pin model.? By referencing the 2 pin model as you did, the answer to your question is "no, 25 amps" because the connector housing is rated at 50 amps and you can run 25 amps through each pin. Jon On 7/29/2014 6:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, >I have copied my question to the rep below. >I thought it was clear but it could have got lost in translation. >To SubConn's credit they do have an amp rating which a lot of other >manufacturers don't seem to be showing. >Alan >Hello, >I am looking at your subconn 2 pin underwater connector, >"Power Series, Battery 2 contacts". >In the connector specifications it states that a single pin connector is rated 600v @ 25 Amp. >& the 2 pin connector is also rated 600v @ 25 Amp. With regard to the 2 pin connector does >this mean that if I am running a motor through this connector?that I can only have 12.5 Amps? >per pin? Thanks. >Alan James > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 20:00:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 17:00:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406676635.70708.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406673825.78095.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406676635.70708.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406678446.99431.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, my ambient motors are really agricultural, with potting, blue globe cable glands, clear plastic tube that the wires run through as well as air for compensation, bits of pipe stuck in the air line hoses to keep them rigid & plumbing fittings. I can do simple. But I am trying to do better Alan ________________________________ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Alan, I have drilled and taped 1/4 pipe holes in the motor head (pointy end) and connected the wires to home made penetrators.? Easy peezy, of coarse you can make this as complicated as you like.? :-) Hank On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 6:46:47 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, I was under that impression also, but when I read through G.L. it seemed to apply to the battery terminals only. Not 100% sure but this would?make more sense. Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Not only that, if I remember correctly the classification agencies require each polarity to go through a separate penetrator. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > >If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > >?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > >From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:56 PM > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors > > > > >Spec sheet is at PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> References -> >Publications -> Subconn Underwater Connectors >or >http://www.psubs.org/reference/publications/subconn/powerbattery.pdf > > > > >On 7/29/2014 9:43 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> To me it would be better to have a high power BHB2F at the hull side and the BHB2M at the MK-101.? I don't think you want male power pins hull side.? If ever you had the cable detached from the hull side bulkhead connector and had power to the pins it would be easy to short across these exposed pins.? In other words you want it like a house receptical. >> >> Cliff >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 20:07:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 20:07:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> Cliff, see my previous note to Alan. Forget the subconn site, go through the Macartney site at http://macartney.com/systems/infrastructure/subconn%C2%AE SubConn does have a true 50amp per pin connector but it has four pins with a max connector rating of 200 amps, model HPBH4. They don't show a two pin model but maybe we should ask if they can produce it for us. And for the classification discussion, they make a one pin monster power connector rated for 250 amps. Jon On 7/29/2014 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > If you look at > http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see > a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M. There is a 50A > 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M. For the sake of > argument, lets call it BHB2M* . If I understand what the Subconn rep > said, the BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a > MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see > 46 A in teach wire / pin. For non commercial personal applications I > can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for those > that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work > as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these > have to operate within vendor specifications. They would need a > connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 29 20:21:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 17:21:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406679677.27456.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, That is the ?point, simple is better, best in fact.? Hank On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:08:09 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, see my previous note to Alan.? Forget the subconn site, go through the Macartney site at http://macartney.com/systems/infrastructure/subconn%C2%AE SubConn does have a true 50amp per pin connector but it has four pins with a max connector rating of 200 amps, model HPBH4.? They don't show a two pin model but maybe we should ask if they can produce it for us. And for the classification discussion, they make a one pin monster power connector rated for 250 amps. Jon On 7/29/2014 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > >If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > >?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 30 06:15:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 03:15:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> David & Cliff was thinking that if we used the 4 pin high power connector, http://macartney.com/sites/default/files/brochures/SubConn_High_Power_4pins_0.pdf then the 2 spare pins could have a thermister on them measuring the motor temperature? as you were intending to do David. The HPBH4M "male" fitting on the motor would mean you would have as Cliff suggested, the safety feature in that if the male & female came apart the live end would be female & wouldn't short on anything (apart from water). I am wondering if there is any off the shelf adapter we could use to screw this straight on to the motor wiring outlet. Also is it feasable to attach bayonets or whatever to the pigtails (does it have pigtails) to fit them directly to the motor electrics. Can this be done while the motor is apart & then be put back together? Any thoughts? Cliff, are you intending to use the saltwater motor controller? http://www.minnkotamotors.com/advantage/saltwater.aspx?sectionID=3 Alan ? ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Cliff, see my previous note to Alan.? Forget the subconn site, go through the Macartney site at http://macartney.com/systems/infrastructure/subconn%C2%AE SubConn does have a true 50amp per pin connector but it has four pins with a max connector rating of 200 amps, model HPBH4.? They don't show a two pin model but maybe we should ask if they can produce it for us. And for the classification discussion, they make a one pin monster power connector rated for 250 amps. Jon On 7/29/2014 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > >If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > >?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 30 08:21:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 05:21:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406722883.39815.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, When I was visiting Nuytco, Dr Phil told me they test all their penetrators because they have failed.? As beautiful as they are, they should be tested.? Dr Phil said the manufacturer only tests per batch, not each unit.? I have to admit, they are nice to work with, if you can afford them.? Gamma has several and changing a light is pretty easy with the plug in feature. Hank On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:20:34 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David & Cliff was thinking that if we used the 4 pin high power connector, http://macartney.com/sites/default/files/brochures/SubConn_High_Power_4pins_0.pdf then the 2 spare pins could have a thermister on them measuring the motor temperature? as you were intending to do David. The HPBH4M "male" fitting on the motor would mean you would have as Cliff suggested, the safety feature in that if the male & female came apart the live end would be female & wouldn't short on anything (apart from water). I am wondering if there is any off the shelf adapter we could use to screw this straight on to the motor wiring outlet. Also is it feasable to attach bayonets or whatever to the pigtails (does it have pigtails) to fit them directly to the motor electrics. Can this be done while the motor is apart & then be put back together? Any thoughts? Cliff, are you intending to use the saltwater motor controller? http://www.minnkotamotors.com/advantage/saltwater.aspx?sectionID=3 Alan ? ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Cliff, see my previous note to Alan.? Forget the subconn site, go through the Macartney site at http://macartney.com/systems/infrastructure/subconn%C2%AE SubConn does have a true 50amp per pin connector but it has four pins with a max connector rating of 200 amps, model HPBH4.? They don't show a two pin model but maybe we should ask if they can produce it for us. And for the classification discussion, they make a one pin monster power connector rated for 250 amps. Jon On 7/29/2014 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > >If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > >?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 30 08:31:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 08:31:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53D8E58E.1020509@psubs.org> A male connector threaded directly into the housing shaft stub is going to suffer the same potential of broken pins depending upon handling. One clumsy move and you may have an unusable motor in the field so you'd have to carry some spare male connectors just in case. Additionally, unless you have a configuration in which you can slide the motor into it's mounting and at the same time mate the male (motor) and female (hull) connectors you're going to end up with a pigtail or cable of some sort to make the electrical connection from motor to hull. So I think you'd be better off with a female connector on the motor and a cable with two male connectors to make the electrical connection if a cable is required to make the electrical connection. If SubConn could produce a two pin high power connector you could save penetrations by using a 4 pin female on the hull to feed two motors. This would require a custom cable but the K600 used a similar configuration for the original lights. When we did our last minn-kota order the saltwater versions were the same price as the fresh water versions so there was no incentive to go with fresh even though they would work just as well. Jon On 7/30/2014 6:15 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > David & Cliff > was thinking that if we used the 4 pin high power connector, > http://macartney.com/sites/default/files/brochures/SubConn_High_Power_4pins_0.pdf > then the 2 spare pins could have a thermister on them measuring the > motor temperature > as you were intending to do David. > The HPBH4M "male" fitting on the motor would mean you would have as > Cliff suggested, the safety feature > in that if the male & female came apart the live end would be female & > wouldn't short on anything > (apart from water). > I am wondering if there is any off the shelf adapter we could use to > screw this straight on to the motor wiring outlet. > Also is it feasable to attach bayonets or whatever to the pigtails > (does it have pigtails) to fit them directly to the motor electrics. > Can this be done while the motor is apart & then be put back together? > Any thoughts? > Cliff, are you intending to use the saltwater motor controller? > http://www.minnkotamotors.com/advantage/saltwater.aspx?sectionID=3 > Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 30 12:20:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:20:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D8E58E.1020509@psubs.org> References: <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D8E58E.1020509@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D17A29486EB80E-DC0-104C6@webmail-vm065.sysops.aol.com> Still, I'd say it was worth checking a bulkhead penetrator and cable for the hull side (some standard length of rubber jacketed cable, three feet, six feet, ten feet--whatever) with the wet-mateable termination for the thruster. It might be less expensive, and you probably won't have to change the cable penetrator end in the foreseeable future. Plus the electrical connections will have one pair less of unsoldered connections to go through. Might save fifty bucks a set, which would be substantial for us multi-thruster types. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 8:31 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors A male connector threaded directly into the housing shaft stub is going to suffer the same potential of broken pins depending upon handling. One clumsy move and you may have an unusable motor in the field so you'd have to carry some spare male connectors just in case. Additionally, unless you have a configuration in which you can slide the motor into it's mounting and at the same time mate the male (motor) and female (hull) connectors you're going to end up with a pigtail or cable of some sort to make the electrical connection from motor to hull. So I think you'd be better off with a female connector on the motor and a cable with two male connectors to make the electrical connection if a cable is required to make the electrical connection. If SubConn could produce a two pin high power connector you could save penetrations by using a 4 pin female on the hull to feed two motors. This would require a custom cable but the K600 used a similar configuration for the original lights. When we did our last minn-kota order the saltwater versions were the same price as the fresh water versions so there was no incentive to go with fresh even though they would work just as well. Jon On 7/30/2014 6:15 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David & Cliff was thinking that if we used the 4 pin high power connector, http://macartney.com/sites/default/files/brochures/SubConn_High_Power_4pins_0.pdf then the 2 spare pins could have a thermister on them measuring the motor temperature as you were intending to do David. The HPBH4M "male" fitting on the motor would mean you would have as Cliff suggested, the safety feature in that if the male & female came apart the live end would be female & wouldn't short on anything (apart from water). I am wondering if there is any off the shelf adapter we could use to screw this straight on to the motor wiring outlet. Also is it feasable to attach bayonets or whatever to the pigtails (does it have pigtails) to fit them directly to the motor electrics. Can this be done while the motor is apart & then be put back together? Any thoughts? Cliff, are you intending to use the saltwater motor controller? http://www.minnkotamotors.com/advantage/saltwater.aspx?sectionID=3 Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 30 16:02:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:02:58 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <53D8E58E.1020509@psubs.org> References: <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D8E58E.1020509@psubs.org> Message-ID: <87685957-8E3C-47AA-A4E9-92E092300F2F@yahoo.com> Hi Jon, good point about the vulnerable protruding pins. SubConn do sell dummy fittings that could be fitted on to the spare motors protruding pins & locked in place with the locking sleeves. The ideal set up would, as you say be a male / male extension cord & female on the motor & hull penetrator. The main problem is that it goes against a World wide convention, & for those of us trying to build to rules. it may be problematic. There is a G.L. section on electrical rules for submarines which is a sub section of electrical rules for ships. I would have to go through the ship rules to find out. I don't know whether we could just carry a spare motor connector out in the field. It may be that you have to pull the motor apart to attach the connector. Unfortunately I don't have a 101 motor so can't get down to the nitty gritty of this. My worries are having enough wire to attach the connector to the motor then twist it in the opposite direction prior to screwing the connector in; but not having too much slack wire that it won't fit in the small area of the motor stub. It may be that Vance & David's solution of cutting down the shaft that fits in the stub, is the way to go. Might have to leave this up to Cliff when he gets back to sort out. With the kort nozzles I built it was easy to slide in a new motor, & I could replace one in a minute. But that brings us back to the generic kort nozzle thread that we had a while back. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31/07/2014, at 12:31 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > A male connector threaded directly into the housing shaft stub is going to suffer the same potential of broken pins depending upon handling. One clumsy move and you may have an unusable motor in the field so you'd have to carry some spare male connectors just in case. Additionally, unless you have a configuration in which you can slide the motor into it's mounting and at the same time mate the male (motor) and female (hull) connectors you're going to end up with a pigtail or cable of some sort to make the electrical connection from motor to hull. So I think you'd be better off with a female connector on the motor and a cable with two male connectors to make the electrical connection if a cable is required to make the electrical connection. > > If SubConn could produce a two pin high power connector you could save penetrations by using a 4 pin female on the hull to feed two motors. This would require a custom cable but the K600 used a similar configuration for the original lights. > > When we did our last minn-kota order the saltwater versions were the same price as the fresh water versions so there was no incentive to go with fresh even though they would work just as well. > > Jon > > >> On 7/30/2014 6:15 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> David & Cliff >> was thinking that if we used the 4 pin high power connector, >> http://macartney.com/sites/default/files/brochures/SubConn_High_Power_4pins_0.pdf >> then the 2 spare pins could have a thermister on them measuring the motor temperature >> as you were intending to do David. >> The HPBH4M "male" fitting on the motor would mean you would have as Cliff suggested, the safety feature >> in that if the male & female came apart the live end would be female & wouldn't short on anything >> (apart from water). >> I am wondering if there is any off the shelf adapter we could use to screw this straight on to the motor wiring outlet. >> Also is it feasable to attach bayonets or whatever to the pigtails (does it have pigtails) to fit them directly to the motor electrics. >> Can this be done while the motor is apart & then be put back together? >> Any thoughts? >> Cliff, are you intending to use the saltwater motor controller? >> http://www.minnkotamotors.com/advantage/saltwater.aspx?sectionID=3 >> Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 30 16:50:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:50:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Last day Bellingham hotel reservation Message-ID: <777cf.11a676d3.410ab4b3@aol.com> All, Today, July 30th, is the last day to make hotel reservations at Lakeway Inn & Convention Center for Bellingham under our group discount. A reservation may be canceled, but it must be done at least 24 hours prior to the scheduled arrival date to avoid incurring a one-day charge. We were able to secure an unusually good deal. These rooms normally go for about $210 per night at that time of the year. Our rate is $139 per night with a voucher for a free breakfast each day in the hotel cafe. The phone number for reservations is 888-671-1011. When you call please specify it is for "Personal Subs" or "P-Subs" block. If the reservationist doesn't find it under one name, tell them to check the other. If you run into any difficulties, please let me know immediately. My apologies for being absent for a bit. I've been out of commission for about three weeks and am still recovering. Cheers, Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 31 23:05:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 20:05:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors In-Reply-To: <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <53D5BE46.9070504@psubs.org> <69D37E5D-F8BE-473C-AB09-77FAC0576543@sbcglobal.net> <1406522882.84315.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406531309.84858.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <771836CE-3202-49CA-AA96-9BE15D723C83@sbcglobal.net> <1406535188.85849.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406580632.89745.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406591193.47267.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406635911.7615.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1406636291.18186.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D794D3.3060702@psubs.org> <5F8CC2BC-F727-4AC4-9BFE-8F12DE8FC22F@sbcglobal.net> <53D7A80D.9060208@psubs.org> <1406672154.53137.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53D83750.9010407@psubs.org> <1406715303.15878.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1406862345.90496.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, David, & anyone else following this; the cable on the 50 amp per pin 4 pin high power connector is 18.2 mm diameter & if we went with a blueglobe cable gland on the motor end, it would have to be their M25 or M32. The M25 & M32 refers to the thread on the end.? One problem is the bulkiness of the cable connectors. You would have to have the connections on the? 2 or 4 wires staggered, so this may dictate the length of extension tube connecting to the stub on the motor. I doubt you would be able to pull the connectors + wires through the globe even on?the M32 version.? To change motors in the Field you would loosen the blue globe so the cable doesn't twist?& unscrew the? blue globe cable gland & pull the wiring out of the extension tube. The barrel type wire connectors with grub screws I think? would be the?lowest profile & highest amp rating connector available. These would probably need to be? shrink wrapped over ?several times to get to G.L. insulation standards. If we went with a hull penetrator on one end of the cable & connector on the other that could plug in?to a connector on the motor, then changing motors would be easy, but if you wanted to route the wires through anything then you would have to cut a 46.5mm hole for the connector to fit through, rather than an 18.2 mm for ?the cable. Another thought was to add a T intersection in there some how, to recieve an air line. Alan ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors David & Cliff was thinking that if we used the 4 pin high power connector, http://macartney.com/sites/default/files/brochures/SubConn_High_Power_4pins_0.pdf then the 2 spare pins could have a thermister on them measuring the motor temperature? as you were intending to do David. The HPBH4M "male" fitting on the motor would mean you would have as Cliff suggested, the safety feature in that if the male & female came apart the live end would be female & wouldn't short on anything (apart from water). I am wondering if there is any off the shelf adapter we could use to screw this straight on to the motor wiring outlet. Also is it feasable to attach bayonets or whatever to the pigtails (does it have pigtails) to fit them directly to the motor electrics. Can this be done while the motor is apart & then be put back together? Any thoughts? Cliff, are you intending to use the saltwater motor controller? http://www.minnkotamotors.com/advantage/saltwater.aspx?sectionID=3 Alan ? ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors Cliff, see my previous note to Alan.? Forget the subconn site, go through the Macartney site at http://macartney.com/systems/infrastructure/subconn%C2%AE SubConn does have a true 50amp per pin connector but it has four pins with a max connector rating of 200 amps, model HPBH4.? They don't show a two pin model but maybe we should ask if they can produce it for us. And for the classification discussion, they make a one pin monster power connector rated for 250 amps. Jon On 7/29/2014 6:15 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, this link seems to be broken at psub site. > > >If you look at http://www.subconn.com/power-series-list-available-types, I don't see a part number associated with a 50A version of BHB2M.? There is a 50A 4 pin model HPB4M but this has a larger body and no option for 2 pin. > > >?Lets assume Subconn has a Hi-Power version of BHB2M.? For the sake of argument, lets call it BHB2M*? .? If I understand what the Subconn rep said, the?BHB2M* connector overall rating is 50A so if we connect to a MK-101 lower unit, and we run the motor at max load, then we would see 46 A in teach wire / pin.? For non commercial personal applications I can live with this as they have a big factor of safety but for?those that are trying to get their boat classed, this is not going to work as classing agencies like ABS and Lloyds specify that parts like these have to operate within vendor specifications.? They would need a connector rating of 100A, i.e., 50A per pin if I am understanding this. > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: