From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 08:46:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 05:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401591897.98009.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401539235.95634.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401591897.98009.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401626785.10275.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, It is my observation in my own life of building subs and other things.? The more complicated the project, the less likely it will see the light of day.? I say forget about rotating grippers and fancy foo foo valves and bindledorpers.? Build it to work and go have fun.? Obviously a rotating gripper is better but we are not operating DW's under oil platforms.? Your wrist solution is perfect!?? Rotating wrists can be added at any time, as a matter of act, there is a hydraulic rotator on ebay right now for 149 bucks.? A hydraulic rotator is the part Sean described. Hank? On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:04:57 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank, I am not sure how detrimental it would be reducing your self to 90 degrees of rotation. Vance might be able to answer that. Alan ________________________________ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Alan, I would say that has merit, it is real simple and low cost. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/30/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 30, 2014, 10:21 PM All,would this idea for rotating the gripper have merit. (See attachment.)It is simple & can give 90 degrees + of rotation. (would you need more?)The piston pulls a bolt in a rod down an angled slot in a pipe, turning the rod & gripper.Ignore the gripper on the end, it's just for show & doesn't have a closing mechanism.Alan ? ? ? ? From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 12:36 PM ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm ? ? Hank,That would be great. So on a four function would you have eight penetrations or four penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members. My address is:Scott Waters3213 Arnold AveBldg ? 122Salina, KS 67401 Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 11:38:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 11:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] k-600 Message-ID: <8D14BC6A19AFE76-3504-4B9AA@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> Jon, What is the all up weight of the K-600? Vance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 12:39:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 09:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] k-600 In-Reply-To: <8D14BC6A19AFE76-3504-4B9AA@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D14BC6A19AFE76-3504-4B9AA@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401640750.29182.YahooMailNeo@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Listed as 4500 without operator. On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:39 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, What is the all up weight of the K-600? Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 12:48:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 12:48:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] k-600 In-Reply-To: <1401640750.29182.YahooMailNeo@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <8D14BC6A19AFE76-3504-4B9AA@webmail-m216.sysops.aol.com> <1401640750.29182.YahooMailNeo@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:39 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Listed as 4500 without operator. > > > On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:39 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, > > What is the all up weight of the K-600? > > Vance > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 13:32:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 05:32:32 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401626785.10275.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401539235.95634.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401591897.98009.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401626785.10275.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92367519-C963-4E52-BE5B-0E1AF9F27B17@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, I have been Looking for "off the shelf" solutions, but just finding the right nomenclature for Googling was difficult. I think I'm after a 2 passage hollow bore rotary union that can be used in salt water. I'll try Googling "Fancy Foo Foo valves" & "Bindle Dorpers" instead. :) Alan Sent from my iPad > On 2/06/2014, at 12:46 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > It is my observation in my own life of building subs and other things. The more complicated the project, the less likely it will see the light of day. I say forget about rotating grippers and fancy foo foo valves and bindledorpers. Build it to work and go have fun. Obviously a rotating gripper is better but we are not operating DW's under oil platforms. Your wrist solution is perfect! Rotating wrists can be added at any time, as a matter of act, there is a hydraulic rotator on ebay right now for 149 bucks. A hydraulic rotator is the part Sean described. > Hank > > > On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:04:57 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Hank, > I am not sure how detrimental it would be reducing your self to 90 degrees of rotation. > Vance might be able to answer that. > Alan > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:27 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Alan, > I would say that has merit, it is real simple and low cost. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/30/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, May 30, 2014, 10:21 PM > > All,would > this idea for rotating the gripper have merit. (See > attachment.)It > is simple & can give 90 degrees + of rotation. (would > you need more?)The > piston pulls a bolt in a rod down an angled slot in a pipe, > turning the rod & gripper.Ignore > the gripper on the end, it's just for show & > doesn't have a closing mechanism.Alan > > From: swaters via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Friday, > May 30, 2014 12:36 PM > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Hank,That would be great. So on a four > function would you have eight penetrations or four > penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive > (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members. > My address is:Scott > Waters3213 Arnold AveBldg > 122Salina, KS 67401 > Thank you,Scott > Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 15:40:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 15:40:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 15:56:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 12:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> Message-ID: <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Talk about the good old days!? I would love to get one of the old Perry subs.? I would be all over that like white on rice. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 15:58:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 15:58:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com> Me, too. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, > Talk about the good old days! I would love to get one of the old Perry subs. I would be all over that like white on rice. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. > Vance > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hank, > > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > > > Scott, > > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > > > Hey guys. I am > > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > > > > > Sent > > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 16:02:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 13:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com> References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com> Message-ID: <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Gamma, needs a big brother On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:59:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Me, too. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, >Talk about the good old days!? I would love to get one of the old Perry subs.? I would be all over that like white on rice. >Hank > > > >On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 16:17:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 16:17:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com> <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If I hit the Florida lottery, my first stop will be to write the check for PC-1201. Would that be sweet, or what? Mind you, at 15,500 pounds, we'll have to make some different launch and recovery plans. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2014, at 4:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Gamma, needs a big brother > > > On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:59:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Me, too. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, >> Talk about the good old days! I would love to get one of the old Perry subs. I would be all over that like white on rice. >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >> Vance >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Hank, >> > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they >> > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> > >> > Scott, >> > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made >> > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator >> > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are >> > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in >> > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider >> > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need >> > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm >> > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way >> > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders >> > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> > Hank >> > -------------------------------------------- >> > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> > >> > Hey guys. I am >> > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a >> > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where >> > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than >> > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating >> > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent >> > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> > database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com/ >> > >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> > database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com/ >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 16:21:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 13:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com> <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401654115.90359.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Good plan, You would think with all the Perry's built, there would be one or two sitting around getting rusty.? I?think Dr Phil has one in his mature sub yard. Hank? On Sunday, June 1, 2014 4:17:26 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If I hit the Florida lottery, my first stop will be to write the check for PC-1201. Would that be sweet, or what? Mind you, at 15,500 pounds, we'll have to make some different launch and recovery plans. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Jun 1, 2014, at 4:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gamma, needs a big brother > > > >On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:59:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Me, too. >Vance > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Vance, >>Talk about the good old days!? I would love to get one of the old Perry subs.? I would be all over that like white on rice. >>Hank >> >> >> >>On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >>Vance >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank, >>> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >>> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >>> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >>> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >>> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >>> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >>> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> >>> Scott, >>> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >>> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >>> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >>> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >>> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >>> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >>> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >>> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >>> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >>> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >>> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >>> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >>> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >>> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >>> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >>> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >>> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >>> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >>> Hank >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >>> >>> Hey guys. I am >>> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >>> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >>> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >>> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >>> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >>> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent >>> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 16:37:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 16:37:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401654115.90359.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com> <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401654115.90359.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2DB1AD2D-1D6E-4691-A0DE-9319D80C3606@AOL.com> Phil has 1202, which I helped to build and dove a lot back in the day. She was a great boat. I could have gotten it cheap a few years back. Probably should have. Then again, what was I going to do with a 32-foot 14-ton sub? Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 1, 2014, at 4:21 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Good plan, > You would think with all the Perry's built, there would be one or two sitting around getting rusty. I think Dr Phil > has one in his mature sub yard. > Hank > > > On Sunday, June 1, 2014 4:17:26 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > If I hit the Florida lottery, my first stop will be to write the check for PC-1201. Would that be sweet, or what? Mind you, at 15,500 pounds, we'll have to make some different launch and recovery plans. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 1, 2014, at 4:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Gamma, needs a big brother >> >> >> On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:59:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Me, too. >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Vance, >>> Talk about the good old days! I would love to get one of the old Perry subs. I would be all over that like white on rice. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >>> Vance >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> > >>> > Hank, >>> > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >>> > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >>> > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they >>> > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >>> > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >>> > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >>> > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >>> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> > >>> > Scott, >>> > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made >>> > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >>> > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator >>> > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are >>> > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in >>> > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >>> > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >>> > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider >>> > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need >>> > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >>> > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm >>> > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way >>> > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders >>> > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >>> > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >>> > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >>> > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >>> > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >>> > Hank >>> > -------------------------------------------- >>> > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >>> > >>> > Hey guys. I am >>> > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a >>> > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where >>> > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >>> > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than >>> > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating >>> > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Sent >>> > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > >>> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> > database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> > >>> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> > >>> > http://www.eset.com/ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> > database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> > >>> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> > >>> > http://www.eset.com/ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 19:09:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 16:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Message-ID: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Gamma's support boat is well under way.? The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house.? The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling.? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 19:37:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2014 18:37:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneVance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 19:56:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 16:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1401666971.44633.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Sorry I have not sent you the picture I promised.? Gamma is kinda buried in the back of my shop.? Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:38:13 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 20:08:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 12:08:30 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <076D0F57-E564-4108-8D9A-CD4B04C3F83B@yahoo.com> Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. > Vance > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hank, > > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > > > Scott, > > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > > > Hey guys. I am > > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > > > > > Sent > > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 20:17:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship In-Reply-To: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> Do you ever take a break, Hank? Wow. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 7:09 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Gamma's support boat is well under way. The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house. The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 20:22:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 17:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship In-Reply-To: <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401668548.29770.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Yes, I do take a break,lol. ?I am in keep my wife happy mode right now, fence, new driveway, etc.?? She has agreed to come to Slocan lake next week to sit on the dock and talk to me while I do another test dive. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:17:07 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you ever take a break, Hank? Wow. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 7:09 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Gamma's support boat is well under way.? The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house.? The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 20:27:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship In-Reply-To: <1401668548.29770.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401668548.29770.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14C10910B7D33-198C-22DAB@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> Show off. Wish I was there to keep her company. It sounds like fun. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Yes, I do take a break,lol. I am in keep my wife happy mode right now, fence, new driveway, etc. She has agreed to come to Slocan lake next week to sit on the dock and talk to me while I do another test dive. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:17:07 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you ever take a break, Hank? Wow. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 7:09 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Gamma's support boat is well under way. The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house. The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 20:31:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 17:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship In-Reply-To: <8D14C10910B7D33-198C-22DAB@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401668548.29770.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C10910B7D33-198C-22DAB@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401669114.32028.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Just get on a plane,lol I can sit on the dock while you test it. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:27:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Show off. Wish I was there to keep her company. It sounds like fun. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Yes, I do take a break,lol. ?I am in keep my wife happy mode right now, fence, new driveway, etc.?? She has agreed to come to Slocan lake next week to sit on the dock and talk to me while I do another test dive. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:17:07 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you ever take a break, Hank? Wow. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 7:09 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Gamma's support boat is well under way.? The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house.? The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 20:50:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 12:50:04 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <076D0F57-E564-4108-8D9A-CD4B04C3F83B@yahoo.com> References: <076D0F57-E564-4108-8D9A-CD4B04C3F83B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <538bca4d.23e8420a.4711.66d4@mx.google.com> Alan, You are a real ferret. Those manuals are great to get an understanding. I am playing with a gerotor design but it is much simpler. I have used a gerotor oil pump for years in the compressors we make and I believe it would be a much simpler design. I am amazed at how similar in concept I am to that manual. That will help me tidy up a few areas. The tricky bit is the hydraulic locking mechanism they utilize. Thanks for that. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 2 June 2014 12:09 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9877 (20140601) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 21:00:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 21:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship In-Reply-To: <1401669114.32028.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401668548.29770.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C10910B7D33-198C-22DAB@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401669114.32028.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14C1523ECB2D6-198C-22FD7@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> Sounds great. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:32 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Just get on a plane,lol I can sit on the dock while you test it. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:27:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Show off. Wish I was there to keep her company. It sounds like fun. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Yes, I do take a break,lol. I am in keep my wife happy mode right now, fence, new driveway, etc. She has agreed to come to Slocan lake next week to sit on the dock and talk to me while I do another test dive. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:17:07 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you ever take a break, Hank? Wow. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 7:09 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Gamma's support boat is well under way. The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house. The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 21:06:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 18:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship In-Reply-To: <8D14C1523ECB2D6-198C-22FD7@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401668548.29770.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C10910B7D33-198C-22DAB@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401669114.32028.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C1523ECB2D6-198C-22FD7@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401671180.4226.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Not sure how deep to push it without a un-manned deep test.?? I am thinking 100 feet? Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:00:32 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sounds great. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:32 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Just get on a plane,lol I can sit on the dock while you test it. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:27:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Show off. Wish I was there to keep her company. It sounds like fun. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Yes, I do take a break,lol. ?I am in keep my wife happy mode right now, fence, new driveway, etc.?? She has agreed to come to Slocan lake next week to sit on the dock and talk to me while I do another test dive. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:17:07 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you ever take a break, Hank? Wow. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 7:09 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Gamma's support boat is well under way.? The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house.? The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 21:09:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 21:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship In-Reply-To: <1401671180.4226.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401664154.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C0F1F65A57A-198C-22D06@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401668548.29770.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C10910B7D33-198C-22DAB@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401669114.32028.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14C1523ECB2D6-198C-22FD7@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> <1401671180.4226.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14C165EE5E7E8-198C-23047@webmail-m217.sysops.aol.com> I always figured you could waterproof a shoebox for a hundred. Watch the viewport seals! Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Not sure how deep to push it without a un-manned deep test. I am thinking 100 feet? Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:00:32 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sounds great. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:32 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Just get on a plane,lol I can sit on the dock while you test it. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:27:46 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Show off. Wish I was there to keep her company. It sounds like fun. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Vance, Yes, I do take a break,lol. I am in keep my wife happy mode right now, fence, new driveway, etc. She has agreed to come to Slocan lake next week to sit on the dock and talk to me while I do another test dive. Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:17:07 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you ever take a break, Hank? Wow. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 1, 2014 7:09 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma mother ship Gamma's support boat is well under way. The side paddles are removed as well as the wheel house. The boat has been transported to my storage yard for further dismantling. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 22:42:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 19:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <76FE4FD57DFF4FBFA190975900B6337C@PhillPC> References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com> <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com> <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com> <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <76FE4FD57DFF4FBFA190975900B6337C@PhillPC> Message-ID: <1401676920.95754.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I thought the subs in the bone yard were off limits? Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:32:43 PM, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, if you hit the lottery, P1202 is sitting in our boneyard waiting for you! Phil From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 1:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm If I hit the Florida lottery, my first stop will be to write the check for PC-1201. Would that be sweet, or what? Mind you, at 15,500 pounds, we'll have to make some different launch and recovery plans. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Jun 1, 2014, at 4:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gamma, needs a big brother > > > >On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:59:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Me, too. >Vance > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Vance, >>Talk about the good old days!? I would love to get one of the old Perry subs.? I would be all over that like white on rice. >>Hank >> >> >> >>On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >>Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >>Vance >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank, >>> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >>> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >>> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >>> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >>> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >>> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >>> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> >>> Scott, >>> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >>> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >>> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >>> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >>> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >>> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >>> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >>> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >>> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >>> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >>> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >>> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >>> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >>> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >>> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >>> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >>> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >>> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >>> Hank >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >>> >>> Hey guys. I am >>> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >>> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >>> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >>> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >>> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >>> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent >>> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 23:20:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <538bca4d.23e8420a.4711.66d4@mx.google.com> References: <076D0F57-E564-4108-8D9A-CD4B04C3F83B@yahoo.com> <538bca4d.23e8420a.4711.66d4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1401679220.90122.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Hugh, that gerotor motor idea looks good. Would a couple of counter balance valves be enough to stop it's rototation & hold position.? I would imagine that there isn't a perfect internal seal & with a bit of leverage on the manipulator grippers it could rotate. Whether it would rotate enough to cause a problem, I don't know. Alan ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Alan, You are a real ferret.? Those manuals are great to get an understanding. I am playing with a gerotor design but it is much simpler.? I have used a gerotor oil pump for years in the compressors we make and I believe it would be a much simpler design. I am amazed at how similar in concept I am to that manual.? That will help me tidy up a few areas.? The tricky bit is the hydraulic locking mechanism they utilize.? Thanks for that. Hugh ? ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 2 June 2014 12:09 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm ? Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters >? >? >? >? >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9877 (20140601) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9877 (20140601) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 23:30:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bone Yard Message-ID: <1401679826.14593.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I hope the bone yard will be open for the Nuytco tour in Aug. Pete From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 1 23:50:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401679220.90122.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <076D0F57-E564-4108-8D9A-CD4B04C3F83B@yahoo.com> <538bca4d.23e8420a.4711.66d4@mx.google.com> <1401679220.90122.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401681012.92609.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Dr Phil I kinda had that feeling :-)? Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:20:44 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hugh, that gerotor motor idea looks good. Would a couple of counter balance valves be enough to stop it's rototation & hold position.? I would imagine that there isn't a perfect internal seal & with a bit of leverage on the manipulator grippers it could rotate. Whether it would rotate enough to cause a problem, I don't know. Alan ________________________________ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Alan, You are a real ferret.? Those manuals are great to get an understanding. I am playing with a gerotor design but it is much simpler.? I have used a gerotor oil pump for years in the compressors we make and I believe it would be a much simpler design. I am amazed at how similar in concept I am to that manual.? That will help me tidy up a few areas.? The tricky bit is the hydraulic locking mechanism they utilize.? Thanks for that. Hugh ? ? From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 2 June 2014 12:09 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm ? Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters >? >? >? >? >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9877 (20140601) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9877 (20140601) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 01:40:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 22:40:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bone Yard Message-ID: <20140601224042.4B9567DF@m0005299.ppops.net> He has a Boneyard !! --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bone Yard Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:30:26 -0700 (PDT) I hope the bone yard will be open for the Nuytco tour in Aug. Pete _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 02:09:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 23:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions In-Reply-To: References: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1401689366.40291.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I will be coming over. Bags first go in the new Exosuit. Saw a presentation on it at U.I. & it's impressive. Alan ________________________________ From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions Wyvonne and I will be attending. Not sure about SeaQuestor yet. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 10:06 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for August 21-24, 2014. > >A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington area including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research.? The current schedule of events includes: >1) Meet & Greet, August 21 >2) Submarine Diving, August 22 >3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23 > > >Jim Todd is the Planning?& Program Chairman for this event, and he will be providing more detailed information later.? In order to secure the best possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of rooms to reserve, please register for the event as soon as possible at http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.? We will announce the name of the official headquarters hotel soon, and of course you are free to choose another hotel accommodation?if you prefer.? Several of the hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms available,"?so the sooner you can respond, the better. >? >IMPORTANT!!:? To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every person no matter what age must present a valid passport.? If you do not have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you apply for or renew your passport ASAP.? More on this later. >? >Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from Bellingham.? Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1 hour from Bellingham.? If your departure point is within the Unites States, flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper. >? >Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago.? Dr. Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to accommodate greater manufacturing activities.? There are presently a number of subs under construction.? See http://nuytco.com/ > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 09:24:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:24:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: No prob. Whenever you get a chance is fine. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, Sorry I have not sent you the picture I promised.? Gamma is kinda buried in the back of my shop.? Hank On Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:38:13 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 09:24:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:24:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 10:18:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D14C84B4B8C981-C5C-4D0F2@webmail-d181.sysops.aol.com> Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 14:14:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:14:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 16:43:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 16:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D14CBA6326042B-22B8-51680@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 16:50:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 15:50:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: Ok. Cool. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:20:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 14:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <8D14CBA6326042B-22B8-51680@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D14CBA6326042B-22B8-51680@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401744027.38181.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, You may have an opportunity here.? You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic.? The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves.? Brilliant!? Even the same wiring harness will work.? More brilliant!?? :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:24:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:24:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <8D14C84B4B8C981-C5C-4D0F2@webmail-d181.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D14C84B4B8C981-C5C-4D0F2@webmail-d181.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: ...and if it were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir, valves, and whatever else hydraulics require, but we do all have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small size drives my choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great lifting power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or clip a surfactant line onto something. The ideal setup for me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear at all in the sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the thing to, and joystick(s) to control it with. Best, Alec > On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Scott, > > Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. > > What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Thanks Alan! > -Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Scott, > here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. > www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx > Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. > Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there > are various gripper drawings with measurements > that would be a good basis for gripper design. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >> Vance >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Hank, >> > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they >> > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> > >> > Scott, >> > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made >> > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator >> > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are >> > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in >> > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider >> > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need >> > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm >> > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way >> > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders >> > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> > Hank >> > -------------------------------------------- >> > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> > >> > Hey guys. I am >> > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a >> > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where >> > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than >> > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating >> > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent >> > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> > database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> > database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:26:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401744027.38181.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8D14CBA6326042B-22B8-51680@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> <1401744027.38181.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14CC0735D4CCE-22B8-51BD8@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here. You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic. The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves. Brilliant! Even the same wiring harness will work. More brilliant! :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:27:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Nathan.tuttle via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 16:27:20 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones Message-ID: Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the ocean. Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device that can communicate via microwave to surface? Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to transfer signals from that distance and that depth? Although our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the sea floor. I would great appreciate your input. Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:35:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones Message-ID: Good questions; underwater com is something we all want to improve. Could you please introduce yourself, tell general location? There may be some PSUBS members close to you. Best regards, Jim Todd Missouri, USA In a message dated 6/2/2014 4:27:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the ocean. Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device that can communicate via microwave to surface? Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to transfer signals from that distance and that depth? Although our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the sea floor. I would great appreciate your input. Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:35:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 16:35:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. ?All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here.? You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic.? The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves.? Brilliant!? Even the same wiring harness will work.? More brilliant!?? :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:40:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 14:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1401745216.13144.YahooMailNeo@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Water attenuates radio signals and microwaves would still be too long to penetrate any reasonable amount of depth. On Monday, June 2, 2014 5:28 PM, Nathan.tuttle via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the ocean. Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device that can communicate via microwave to surface? Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to transfer signals from that distance and that depth? Although our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the sea floor. I would great appreciate your input. Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:42:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 14:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <8D14CC0735D4CCE-22B8-51BD8@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D14CBA6326042B-22B8-51680@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> <1401744027.38181.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14CC0735D4CCE-22B8-51BD8@webmail-va061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401745347.49766.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, I am sure that is doable even with hydraulic , use the tiny top pumps and put four of them in an air compensated container outside the sub and all you need is an eclectic penetrator for power and control 10 wires total?for a four function. Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 5:26:53 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. ?All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here.? You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic.? The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves.? Brilliant!? Even the same wiring harness will work.? More brilliant!?? :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:46:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 16:46:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: <8p3dn2tm1ew0jj5lx1cqx5ap.1401745540742@email.android.com> Hank, I can't wait to learn more about your manipulator. I really think when I am up there I will really have alot better direction to make this project a reality. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Alec, I am sure that is doable even with hydraulic , use the tiny top pumps and put four of them in an air compensated container outside the sub and all you need is an eclectic penetrator for power and control 10 wires total?for a four function. Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 5:26:53 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. ?All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here.? You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic.? The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves.? Brilliant!? Even the same wiring harness will work.? More brilliant!?? :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 17:48:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: Alec, The electrics have always had more appeal to me for the reasons you mention. Battery power is continually becoming more and more efficient and compact. Air seems to stay about the same. The right setup could change my mind. This has been posted in the past: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY0Qz-CxkBE Jim T. In a message dated 6/2/2014 4:25:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ...and if it were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir, valves, and whatever else hydraulics require, but we do all have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small size drives my choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great lifting power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or clip a surfactant line onto something. The ideal setup for me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear at all in the sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the thing to, and joystick(s) to control it with. Best, Alec On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. _www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx_ (http://www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx) Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > _http://www.eset.com_ (http://www.eset.com/) > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > _http://www.eset.com_ (http://www.eset.com/) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 18:18:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 10:18:35 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <538cf840.83e0440a.30f1.7458@mx.google.com> Welcome to P-Subs. At P-Subs we have a special section for helping expert Engineers. You will find good answers from Vance, Phil, Sean, Alec, and others in that section. Regards, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Nathan.tuttle via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2014 9:27 a.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the ocean. Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device that can communicate via microwave to surface? Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to transfer signals from that distance and that depth? Although our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the sea floor. I would great appreciate your input. Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9882 (20140602) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9882 (20140602) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 18:34:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 23:34:13 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: bravo James, the whole must have been a very exciting experience! regards Antoine On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 11:23 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > > Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last. I used the > crane again to lift in and out. My trailer needs some modification before > i can use it. Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing. > > I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was > doing everything proper. > > I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod > and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways. Put 24kg of > lead on that side. Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in > 160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear > tank. Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside > out out. Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages. > > Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last. Didnt really intend to go to > the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive. Landed > on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft). Went up and down loads of times > and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank. Seem to have > got the weight about right. Drove about just off the seabed and found it > was quite easy to spin around and control. Drove around on the surface a > bit as well to test surface running. Again this was ok using the rear > thruster. > > Some problems. Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on > the exterior one. Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an > airlock. Never thought of that when i was fitting it. Will probably make > an oil bladder. No big deal. > > Port side motor stopped working. I thought it might have filled with > water, but when i drained it, it was all ok. Unplugged it and plugged it > back in and its now working again. Not exactly sure what was wrong there. > > Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if > the boat didnt go down evenly. A tactical hole should sort that out. > > Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not > anodized. Not sure how i can stop that. > > I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but > although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and > formed a greasy film on the surface of the water. This got on the video > camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos. > > Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end. Put them on > for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test. > > A completely random X girlfriend turned up. I think she was with one of > the divers and didnt realise it was me. I popped out of the hatch and > could see she was suprised "er, hello". That was a bit awkward. > > Divers scratched my lovely new lettering. grrrr > > All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small > pressurised cannisters later in the evening.... > > Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so > after ive sorted them all out. > > Kind Regards > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 19:16:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 16:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: <8D14C84B4B8C981-C5C-4D0F2@webmail-d181.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401750983.10534.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, here is just what you want. An lightweight underwater electric manipulator from China, complete with cameras & shopping basket for samples. I have seen other versions of this. Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd. Alan Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd. Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd. View on vvlai.cn Preview by Yahoo ________________________________ From: Private via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm ...and if it were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir, valves, and whatever else hydraulics require, but we do all have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small size drives my choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great lifting power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or clip a surfactant line onto something. The ideal setup for me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear at all in the sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the thing to, and joystick(s) to control it with. Best, Alec On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, > > Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. > > >What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. > > >Vance? > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > >Thanks Alan! >-Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Scott, >here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. >www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx >Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. >Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there >are various gripper drawings with measurements >that would be a good basis for gripper design. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >>Thanks, >>Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >>Vance >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank, >>> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >>> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >>> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >>> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >>> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >>> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >>> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> >>> Scott, >>> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >>> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >>> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >>> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >>> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >>> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >>> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >>> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >>> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >>> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >>> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >>> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >>> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >>> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >>> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >>> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >>> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >>> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >>> Hank >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >>> >>> Hey guys. I am >>> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >>> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >>> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >>> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >>> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >>> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent >>> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 19:38:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 17:38:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Most through-water communication devices employ acoustic transmission instead of electromagnetic, with the exception of some extremely low-frequency systems. The reason is that seawater, being conductive, acts like a massive Faraday cage surrounding the transmitter. Electromagnetic attenuation through seawater is significant, and gets worse with increased frequency. Microwaves are wholly unsuitable. Extremely low frequency radio waves have been used with some success, but due to the low frequency, are limited to low data rates insufficient for encoding real-time voice comms. Human hearing covers from about 20 Hz to 20 kHz, so to encode the audible spectrum you need a bandwidth of twice that. This is why CDs are sampled at 44.1 kHz. Now, intelligible voice comms don't require the whole spectrum - you can get away with just a few kHz to encode the typical frequencies in a human voice, but even that is too much data for real-time communication at frequencies which will not be attenuated so much by the seawater as to make them useless. Think text messages that are so slow that you can see each character arriving individually - that's about what you can hope for with underwater radio that still has some useful range. Of course, this is dependent on your requirements. More available transmission power, or less required range, and you may be okay, but it is hardly efficient. In contrast to radio waves, acoustic signals are not as easily attenuated in water, and as such are frequently used for communication, navigation and imaging. (I.e. why we use sonar underwater instead of radar). Voice comms can be frequency shifted to frequencies outside of human hearing, transmitted as an ultrasonic sound wave through the water, and frequency shifted again on the receive side to make real-time voice comms feasible. What's more, with acoustic signals, increased salinity actually helps rather than hinders, as the greater the density of the water, the less the attenuation with distance. Sean On June 2, 2014 3:27:20 PM MDT, "Nathan.tuttle via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. > >One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great >depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. > >The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and >deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the >ocean. > >Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) > >My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device >that can communicate via microwave to surface? > >Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a >line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. > >But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water >that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. > >Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to >transfer signals from that distance and that depth? > >Although our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen >technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small >controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the >sea floor. > >I would great appreciate your input. > >Sent from my iPad >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 20:17:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 20:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater Com Message-ID: Sean, That's the best summary on the subject I've ever heard in a short amount of space. Thanks, Jim T. In a message dated 6/2/2014 6:39:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Most through-water communication devices employ acoustic transmission instead of electromagnetic, with the exception of some extremely low-frequency systems. The reason is that seawater, being conductive, acts like a massive Faraday cage surrounding the transmitter. Electromagnetic attenuation through seawater is significant, and gets worse with increased frequency. Microwaves are wholly unsuitable. Extremely low frequency radio waves have been used with some success, but due to the low frequency, are limited to low data rates insufficient for encoding real-time voice comms. Human hearing covers from about 20 Hz to 20 kHz, so to encode the audible spectrum you need a bandwidth of twice that. This is why CDs are sampled at 44.1 kHz. Now, intelligible voice comms don't require the whole spectrum - you can get away with just a few kHz to encode the typical frequencies in a human voice, but even that is too much data for real-time communicat! ion at frequencies which will not be attenuated so much by the seawater as to make them useless. Think text messages that are so slow that you can see each character arriving individually - that's about what you can hope for with underwater radio that still has some useful range. Of course, this is dependent on your requirements. More available transmission power, or less required range, and you may be okay, but it is hardly efficient. In contrast to radio waves, acoustic signals are not as easily attenuated in water, and as such are frequently used for communication, navigation and imaging. (I.e. why we use sonar underwater instead of radar). Voice comms can be frequency shifted to frequencies outside of human hearing, transmitted as an ultrasonic sound wave through the water, and frequency shifted again on the receive side to make real-time voice comms feasible. What's more, with acoustic signals, increased salinity actually helps rather than hinders, as the greater the density of the water, the less the attenuation with distance. Sean On June 2, 2014 3:27:20 PM MDT, "Nathan.tuttle via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the ocean. Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device that can communicate via microwave to surface? Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to transfer signals from that distance and that depth? Althoug! h our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the sea floor. I would great appreciate your input. Sent from my iPad ____________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 20:59:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 20:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D14CDE3B873F4C-F2C-55771@webmail-vd011.sysops.aol.com> They were ALL built in house for the manned subs, as far as I know. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here. You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic. The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves. Brilliant! Even the same wiring harness will work. More brilliant! :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 21:08:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <8D14CDE3B873F4C-F2C-55771@webmail-vd011.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D14CDE3B873F4C-F2C-55771@webmail-vd011.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401757707.43746.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, The Perry 1201 is for sale in Florida, I am sure you know that but the interesting thing is the seller contact number is in the Vancouver area. Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 8:59:40 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They were ALL built in house for the manned subs, as far as I know. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. ?All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here.? You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic.? The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves.? Brilliant!? Even the same wiring harness will work.? More brilliant!?? :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 21:11:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 21:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401757707.43746.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8D14CDE3B873F4C-F2C-55771@webmail-vd011.sysops.aol.com> <1401757707.43746.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14CDFEF7AF22C-F2C-55854@webmail-vd011.sysops.aol.com> He's a broker. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:08 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, The Perry 1201 is for sale in Florida, I am sure you know that but the interesting thing is the seller contact number is in the Vancouver area. Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 8:59:40 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They were ALL built in house for the manned subs, as far as I know. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here. You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic. The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves. Brilliant! Even the same wiring harness will work. More brilliant! :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 21:21:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 21:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201 Message-ID: Here it is: http://www.sub-find.com/perry-1201-submarine.html Jim In a message dated 6/2/2014 8:08:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Vance, The Perry 1201 is for sale in Florida, I am sure you know that but the interesting thing is the seller contact number is in the Vancouver area. Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 8:59:40 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They were ALL built in house for the manned subs, as far as I know. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here. You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic. The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves. Brilliant! Even the same wiring harness will work. More brilliant! :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. _www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx_ (http://www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx) Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 21:26:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 21:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D14CE204B09A06-2B28-54576@webmail-d245.sysops.aol.com> That's her all right. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:22 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201 Here it is: http://www.sub-find.com/perry-1201-submarine.html Jim In a message dated 6/2/2014 8:08:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Vance, The Perry 1201 is for sale in Florida, I am sure you know that but the interesting thing is the seller contact number is in the Vancouver area. Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 8:59:40 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They were ALL built in house for the manned subs, as far as I know. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here. You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic. The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves. Brilliant! Even the same wiring harness will work. More brilliant! :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 21:29:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401750983.10534.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401758983.58637.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Mmmm sea cucumber sandwiches-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 6/2/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, June 2, 2014, 4:16 PM Alec,here is just what you want.An lightweight underwater electric manipulator from China, complete with cameras& shopping basket for samples.I have seen other versions of this. Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd. AlanWeihai Future Robot Co., Ltd.Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd.View on vvlai.cnPreview by Yahoo From: Private via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm ...and if it were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir, valves, and whatever else hydraulics require, but we do all have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small size drives my choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great lifting power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or clip a surfactant line onto something. The ideal setup for me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear at all in the sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the thing to, and joystick(s) to control it with. Best, Alec On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 22:01:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 20:01:13 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201 In-Reply-To: <6D6C42AA702A4711A667E95955E7D786@PhillPC> References: <6D6C42AA702A4711A667E95955E7D786@PhillPC> Message-ID: <538D2C69.5080808@telus.net> UVI still has a website up at www.sub-find.com, and a Perry 1201 is listed as available for charter. Sean On 2014-05-26 20:06, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi, Hank, > The Vancouver area phone number belongs to an ex-dentist named Jon -- > I believe that UVI stands for U/w Vehicles Inc. I know him from a > couple of decades ago when he and his partner (Jerry Benson -- since > deceased) wanted to rep the 'Sea Urchin'. To say it didn't work out > would be an understatement. They got crossways with a number of > vehicle owners by listing a spec sheet and picture of a sub without > the owners knowledge and/or authorization and when someone asked the > price, they would then contact the owner and tell him that they had > someone who wanted to buy the owners sub . . and would turn the 'hot > buyer' over to the owner once a suitable commission had been > established. I was pissed at them offering DeepWorkers, Newtsuits, > etc., without our permission -- Jim MacFarlane at ISE had some of his > work-class ROV's listed by them without permission and threatened to > sue them. Mind you, this was all a number of years ago, so UVI may be > pure as the driven snow these days -- be interesting to know if the > actual owner of PC1202 has hired them to flog it or ???? Vance, any > imput on this? > Phil > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 2 22:06:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 22:06:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: <1401758983.58637.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1401750983.10534.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401758983.58637.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh wow, I think, even though electric we can go a little more heavy duty than that. It looks like it was built of recycled parts from old IKEA desk lamps! On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Mmmm sea cucumber sandwiches-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 6/2/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: Monday, June 2, 2014, 4:16 PM > > Alec,here is just what you > want.An lightweight underwater > electric manipulator from China, complete with > cameras& shopping basket for > samples.I have seen other versions of > this. > Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd. > AlanWeihai > Future Robot Co., Ltd.Weihai > Future Robot Co., Ltd.View > on vvlai.cnPreview > by Yahoo > > From: Private via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, > 2014 9:24 AM > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > ...and if it > were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy > bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir, > valves, and whatever else hydraulics require, but we do all > have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small size drives my > choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great > lifting power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or > clip a surfactant line onto something. The ideal setup for > me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear at all in the > sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the > thing to, and joystick(s) to control it with. > Best, > Alec > > > > On Jun 2, 2014, > at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Scott, > > > > > Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like > watching those shows on cable television where young couples > are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and > eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and > twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can > afford. > > > > > What we really need > (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper > to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function > pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that > worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook > and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, > some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to > build. Not a bad place to start. > > > > > Vance > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Alan! > > -Scott Waters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my U.S. > Cellular? Smartphone > > > > Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Scott, > > here is a link to the > Schilling manipulator manuals. > > www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx > > Very scary. They are the > rolls royce of manipulator. > > Usually near the end of > these 500 page pdfs there > > are various gripper > drawings with measurements > > that would be a good > basis for gripper design. > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the info > Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a > psubs manipulator. > > Thanks, > > Scott Waters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my U.S. > Cellular? Smartphone > > > > Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained > continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 > psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so > could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up > with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure > switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a > double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled > with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control > for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some > variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted > internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated > pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the > subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar > range. The resultant increased budget and their growing > experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the > later boats were set up with the external package, as far as > I know. > > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Hank, > > > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do > a manipulator but need > > > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are > required. > > > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What > pressure do they > > > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled > it and came up with > > > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of > myself so chased down some > > > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They > look a bit on the > > > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, > Hugh > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > > > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > > > > > Scott, > > > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some > of money. I have made > > > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them > strong to lift a > > > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said > it best. A manipulator > > > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, > large components are > > > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all > that is needed. A 2in > > > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe > as much as 6in stroke > > > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that > reduces the back > > > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible > top pumps. Consider > > > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay > for 125 bucks. No need > > > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change > direction of the > > > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real > simple. As for the arm > > > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You > can mock it up that way > > > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and > ensure the cylinders > > > stroke properly without over centering. You can build > the arm with square > > > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside > when the arm is > > > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots > of time to play around. > > > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be > built for under 1,000 > > > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play > with if you like. > > > Hank > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > > > > > Hey guys. I am > > > still working on the manipulator arm project for the > K boats. I am a > > > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I > really don't know where > > > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone > have any pointers as > > > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric > motors rather than > > > hydrolics just because of the amount of external > operating > > > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent > > > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus signature > > > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus signature > > > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles > mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 00:50:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 12:50:31 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <538D5417.7020901@archivale.com> Microwaves will definitely not allow you to communicate with a deeply submerged drone. There is a narrow range of frequencies at the lower end of the EM range which can penetrate a few feet into water with acceptable attenuation, but that won't help you at great depth. The data link problem is the biggest one for ROVs, and accounts for the fact that they are mostly tethered, with rare exceptions designed for limited autonomous navigation and data gathering (and those can't send data to the surface in real time). For exactly the same reason, underwater navigation is also a problem. Marc de Piolenc On 6/3/2014 5:27 AM, Nathan.tuttle via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. > > One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. > > The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the ocean. > > Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) > > My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device that can communicate via microwave to surface? > > Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. > > But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. > > Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to transfer signals from that distance and that depth? > > Although our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the sea floor. > > I would great appreciate your input. > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 07:17:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 04:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1401794225.99712.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, You better ask your mom for your old baby bib for your trip to Nuytco.? My arm is off Fred Flinstones submarine.? You will be drooling as I was when I saw a whole shelf full of DW manipulators.? I think I did a good job of containing myself though.? :-) Hank? On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:29:26 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Cool. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 08:21:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 08:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201 In-Reply-To: <6D6C42AA702A4711A667E95955E7D786@PhillPC> References: <6D6C42AA702A4711A667E95955E7D786@PhillPC> Message-ID: <8D14D3D8B848FF2-508-56C9F@webmail-d177.sysops.aol.com> Phil, I think it is the same deal with 1201. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:44 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201 Hi, Hank, The Vancouver area phone number belongs to an ex-dentist named Jon ? I believe that UVI stands for U/w Vehicles Inc. I know him from a couple of decades ago when he and his partner (Jerry Benson ? since deceased) wanted to rep the ?Sea Urchin?. To say it didn?t work out would be an understatement. They got crossways with a number of vehicle owners by listing a spec sheet and picture of a sub without the owners knowledge and/or authorization and when someone asked the price, they would then contact the owner and tell him that they had someone who wanted to buy the owners sub . . and would turn the ?hot buyer? over to the owner once a suitable commission had been established. I was pissed at them offering DeepWorkers, Newtsuits, etc., without our permission ? Jim MacFarlane at ISE had some of his work-class ROV?s listed by them without permission and threatened to sue them. Mind you, this was all a number of years ago, so UVI may be pure as the driven snow these days ? be interesting to know if the actual owner of PC1202 has hired them to flog it or ???? Vance, any imput on this? Phil From: via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 6:21 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201 Here it is: http://www.sub-find.com/perry-1201-submarine.html Jim In a message dated 6/2/2014 8:08:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Vance, The Perry 1201 is for sale in Florida, I am sure you know that but the interesting thing is the seller contact number is in the Vancouver area. Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 8:59:40 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: They were ALL built in house for the manned subs, as far as I know. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I think it will be simpler than that, even. All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Scott, You may have an opportunity here. You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic. The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves. Brilliant! Even the same wiring harness will work. More brilliant! :-) Hank On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice. I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best. What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise. Any brand best? Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money. I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot. Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best. A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting. With that in mind, large components are > not needed. Simple air cylinders from ebay are all that is needed. A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need. Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure. I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps. Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks. No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple. As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first. You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up. Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where > to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating > peices. Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 17:37:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:37:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: Hehe. I'm excited! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, You better ask your mom for your old baby bib for your trip to Nuytco.? My arm is off Fred Flinstones submarine.? You will be drooling as I was when I saw a whole shelf full of DW manipulators.? I think I did a good job of containing myself though.? :-) Hank? On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:29:26 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Cool. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 17:43:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 14:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1401831783.89925.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Joking aside, you will be in awe when you see them up close. Hank On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:37:37 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hehe. I'm excited! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, You better ask your mom for your old baby bib for your trip to Nuytco.? My arm is off Fred Flinstones submarine.? You will be drooling as I was when I saw a whole shelf full of DW manipulators.? I think I did a good job of containing myself though.? :-) Hank? On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:29:26 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Cool. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 17:43:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 14:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1401831822.31307.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Joking aside, you will be in awe when you see them up close. Hank On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:37:37 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hehe. I'm excited! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, You better ask your mom for your old baby bib for your trip to Nuytco.? My arm is off Fred Flinstones submarine.? You will be drooling as I was when I saw a whole shelf full of DW manipulators.? I think I did a good job of containing myself though.? :-) Hank? On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:29:26 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Cool. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. >Vance >Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need >> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. >> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they >> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with >> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some >> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the >> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> >> Scott, >> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made >> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a >> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator >> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are >> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in >> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke >> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back >> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider >> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need >> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the >> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm >> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way >> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders >> stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square >> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is >> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. >> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 >> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM >> >> Hey guys. I am >> still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a >> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where >> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as >> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than >> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating >> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters >> >> >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 9862 (20140528) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 17:52:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:52:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Message-ID: <8slhx8lj99v5d7wj2urkiwjq.1401832314463@email.android.com> I bet after this trip I will have a really good idea what to do. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, Joking aside, you will be in awe when you see them up close. Hank On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:37:37 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hehe. I'm excited! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, You better ask your mom for your old baby bib for your trip to Nuytco.? My arm is off Fred Flinstones submarine.? You will be drooling as I was when I saw a whole shelf full of DW manipulators.? I think I did a good job of containing myself though.? :-) Hank? On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:29:26 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Cool. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Vance, Do you have any pictures of it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start. Vance? -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Thanks Alan! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals. www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator. Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there are various gripper drawings with measurements that would be a good basis for gripper design. Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required. > What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the > large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > Scott, > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a > lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator > is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are > not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke > is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back > pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is > folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around. > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > > Hey guys. I am > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a > little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where > to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as > to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than > hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating > peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > > > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 9862 (20140528) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 18:08:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 15:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1401833282.25670.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number.? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 18:27:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 15:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones In-Reply-To: <538D5417.7020901@archivale.com> References: <538D5417.7020901@archivale.com> Message-ID: <1401834451.77302.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Nathan, when they thought they had pin pointed where MH370's emergency beacon was transmitting from, they sent down an AUV to do a grid search. It was coming up periodically & transmitting data. All it's scanning images were then looked at. If it had found anything of interest, there would have been coordinates with the? image so they could then send a rov down to that point. They have spent billions of dollars trying to find that plane. Depending on the depth you are looking at, there are units that are towed behind boats at a depth & scan the sea floor. Regards Alan ________________________________ From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Surface controlled drones Microwaves will definitely not allow you to communicate with a deeply submerged drone. There is a narrow range of frequencies at the lower end of the EM range which can penetrate a few feet into water with acceptable attenuation, but that won't help you at great depth. The data link problem is the biggest one for ROVs, and accounts for the fact that they are mostly tethered, with rare exceptions designed for limited autonomous navigation and data gathering (and those can't send data to the surface in real time). For exactly the same reason, underwater navigation is also a problem. Marc de Piolenc On 6/3/2014 5:27 AM, Nathan.tuttle via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey I am a submersible enthusiast and an expert engineer. > > One thing that is bugging me is why communication with devices at great depths (the very bottom of the ocean) seems to be so hard. > > The thing I am working on is miniature drones fully equipped and deployed en masse to scan and collect data from the bottom of the ocean. > > Primarily, I want to find Amelia Earharts wreckage ;) > > My question is, would it be difficult to create an underwater device that can communicate via microwave to surface? > > Microwaves on the electromagnetic spectrum can pass through things in a line of sight manner if there is nothing obstructing them. > > But I am weak on my physics and maybe the several billion tons of water that it has to pass through would squelch the signal. > > Is there a means of telecommunication with high enough bandwidth to transfer signals from that distance and that depth? > > Although our earth is covered 70% of water. I think we have seen technology come to the point where a mass deployment of small controllable drones equipped with detection devices could search the sea floor. > > I would great appreciate your input. > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 19:34:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 16:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm In-Reply-To: References: <1401750983.10534.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401758983.58637.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401838450.92822.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, maybe a hybrid pneumatic / electric manipulator would be the answer. Rotating the gripper would need very little power, so perhaps a small electric motor & a worm gear (for holding ), driving a shaft that is substantial enough for the lateral loads. If anyone sees an off the shelf version of this, let me know, thanks. This could be packaged in an air compensated housing. My thruster air compensation tubing has the electric wires running through it, so it's economical on space. I think the electric linear actuators are a lot of hard work & a couple of pneumatic cylinders would be better. That ?manipulator I posted must have the sea cucumber population in turmoil. Regards Alan ________________________________ From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm Oh wow, I think, even though electric we can go a little more heavy duty than that. It looks like it was built of recycled parts from old IKEA desk lamps! ? On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Mmmm sea cucumber sandwiches-------------------------------------------- >On Mon, 6/2/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > >?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >?Date: Monday, June 2, 2014, 4:16 PM > >?Alec,here is just what you >?want.An lightweight underwater > >?electric manipulator from China, complete with >?cameras& shopping basket for >?samples.I have seen other versions of > >?this. >?Weihai Future Robot Co., Ltd. >?AlanWeihai >?Future Robot Co., Ltd.Weihai >?Future Robot Co., Ltd.View >?on vvlai.cnPreview >?by Yahoo > > >? ? ? ? ?From: Private via >?Personal_Submersibles >? >? To: Personal >?Submersibles General Discussion >? >? Sent: Tuesday, June 3, >?2014 9:24 AM > >?Subject: Re: >?[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > >?...and if it >?were me, electric rather than hydraulic. The reason is, itsy >?bitsy PSUBS might not have space for the pump, reservoir, >?valves, and whatever else hydraulics require, but we do all >?have batteries. I mean, in Snoopy small size drives my >?choices even of instruments. I can't see needing great >?lifting power, I'm happy to pick up a sea shell or >? clip a surfactant line onto something. The ideal setup for >?me would be a bolt-on manip requiring no gear at all in the >?sub except for one electrical penetrator to connect the >?thing to, and joystick(s) to control it with. >?Best, >?Alec > > > >?On Jun 2, 2014, >?at 10:18 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >?Scott, > > > > >?Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like >?watching those shows on cable television where young couples >?are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and >?eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and >?twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can >?afford. > > > > >?What we really need >?(in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper >?to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function >?pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that >?worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook >?and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, >?some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to >?build. Not a bad place to start. > > > > >?Vance? > > > > > > >?-----Original >?Message----- > >?From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles > >?To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >?Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am > >?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > > > > > > > > > > >?Thanks Alan! > >?-Scott Waters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >?Sent from my U.S. >?Cellular? Smartphone > > > >?Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >?Scott, > >?here is a link to the >?Schilling manipulator manuals. > >?www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx > >?Very scary. They are the >?rolls royce of manipulator. > >?Usually near the end of >?these 500 page pdfs there > >?are various gripper >?drawings with measurements > >?that would be a good >?basis for gripper design. > >?Alan > > > >?Sent from my iPad > > > >?On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles >? wrote: > > > > > > >?Thanks for the info >?Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a >?psubs manipulator. > >?Thanks, > >?Scott Waters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >?Sent from my U.S. >?Cellular? Smartphone > > > >?Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >?Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained >?continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 >?psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so >?could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up >?with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure >?switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a >?double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled >?with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control >?for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some >?variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted >?internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated >?pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the >?subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar >?range. The resultant increased budget and their growing >?experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the >?later boats were set up with the external package, as far as >?I know. > >?Vance > >?Sent from my iPhone > > > >?> On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via >?Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >?> > >?> Hank, > >?> That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do >?a manipulator but need > >?> to get some idea of what lifting or forces are >?required. > >?> What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What >?pressure do they > >?> develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled >?it and came up with > >?> breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of >?myself so chased down some > >?> more and found that they are for convertible cars. They >?look a bit on the > >?> large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? >?Hugh > >?> > >?> > >?> -----Original Message----- > >?> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > >?> On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >?> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m. > >?> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >?> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > >?> > >?> Scott, > >?> No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some >?of money.? I have made > >?> many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them >?strong to lift a > >?> lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said >?it best.? A manipulator > >?> is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, >?large components are > >?> not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all >?that is needed.? A 2in > >?> bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe >?as much as 6in stroke > >?> is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that >?reduces the back > >?> pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible >?top pumps.? Consider > >?> using one pump per function again purchase from ebay >?for 125 bucks.? No need > >?> for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change >?direction of the > >?> piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real >?simple.? As for the arm > >?> itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You >?can mock it up that way > >?> and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and >?ensure the? cylinders > >?> stroke properly without over centering. You can build >?the arm with square > >?> tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside >?when the arm is > >?> folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots >?of time to play around. > >?> Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be >?built for under 1,000 > >?> dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play >?with if you like. > >?> Hank > >?> -------------------------------------------- > >?> On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > >?> wrote: > >?> > >?> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm > >?> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >?> Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM > >?> > >?> Hey guys. I am > >?> still working on the manipulator arm project for the >?K? boats. I am a > >?> little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I >?really don't know where > >?> to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone >?have any pointers as > >?> to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric >?motors rather? than > >?> hydrolics just because of the amount of external? >?operating > >?> peices. Thanks,Scott? Waters > >?> > >?> > >?> > >?> Sent > >?> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >?> > >?> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >?> > >?> _______________________________________________ > >?> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >?> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >?> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?> > >?> > >?> _______________________________________________ > >?> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >?> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >?> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?> > >?> > >?> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, >?version of virus signature > >?> database 9862 (20140528) __________ > >?> > >?> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >?> > >?> http://www.eset.com > >?> > >?> > >?> > >?> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, >?version of virus signature > >?> database 9862 (20140528) __________ > >?> > >?> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >?> > >?> http://www.eset.com > >?> > >?> > >?> > >?> _______________________________________________ > >?> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >?> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >?> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >?_______________________________________________ > >?Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >?_______________________________________________ > >?Personal_Submersibles >?mailing list > >?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > >?_______________________________________________ >?Personal_Submersibles mailing list >?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > >?_______________________________________________ >?Personal_Submersibles mailing >?list >?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?_______________________________________________ >?Personal_Submersibles mailing list >?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >?_______________________________________________ >?Personal_Submersibles mailing list >?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 19:44:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 19:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1401833282.25670.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401833282.25670.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14D9CE692A833-2AA0-5B5EC@webmail-m208.sysops.aol.com> Hank, Now you're going to make me think a minute. Okay, it's like this. Each number corresponds to some common design theme or trait. The PC really did stand for Perry Cubmarine by the way, although they tended to downplay that later in the game. PC-1 & 2 were the experimental psubs style homebuilts, which don't really count here. PC-3: was the original fore and aft design and the first commercially viable (3 built) PC-4 was the first successful diver lock-out boat, Deep Diver/Shelf Diver (2 built) PC-5 a hybrid or transition design between the 3s and what was to come (1 built) PC-6 & 7 had other names (I suspect Opsub was one and the transfer bell another. PC-8 the first bubble nose sub, 42" OD hull, twin battery pods (2 built) PC-9 54" OD with lots of frustrum viewports (custom built for Brown & Root) (1 built) PC-10 a 10,000' capable single sphere boat, never built PC-11 another design study, never built. PC-12 had 48" OD hulls, 28" conning towers, and twin pods. (5 built/4 obs, 1 DLO) PC-13 (something military we never got to see). PC-14 were 42" hulls, single releasable pods, low voltage, 24" conn. towers (2 built) PC-15 was the second bubble nose sub built, a 54" OD hull with DLO (1 built) PC-16 had three intersecting spheres for 3000 feet service (2 built) PC-17 was a huge, long range multi-task beast with bunks and a bathroom-never built PC-18 a 54" hull diameter upgrade on the old PC-4 design (6 built) The conning tower thing has to do with viewports. Six in the 24", Eight in the 28". All frustrum ports on all Perry subs are the same size (except the 16s, which are the same OD only thicker). The ARMS bells may have had a series number assigned but I never heard it. We also built a bunch of decompression chambers and sat systems both with and without bells, plus a parking lot full of wet subs, two underwater habitats and who knows what else. At any rate, I think it was 25 commercially viable free-swimming submersibles built over...um...I guess 20 years or so, along with all that other stuff. And then there came the ROVs, which I was not a part of. Perry was a world leader with those and (I think) the first ones to build a commercially available work class ROV for 10,000'. I got to tell you -- it was an exciting place to work. The thing is, we knew that we were making history every day. Yeah, we grumbled about the pay and bitched about the heat and all that, but there was just nothing like it anywhere (except in Vancouver at Hyco, of course, where they built (I think) 12 subs including Nuytco's Aquarius). Those were the days, for sure. And Hyco wins, as Uncle Phil assumed the mantle and carried on carrying on. Counting hard suits, I'd hate to even guess how many subs those guys have built up there in BC. Probably as many again as Perry and Hyco put together. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:08 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Vance, How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 21:49:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 20:49:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8D14D9CE692A833-2AA0-5B5EC@webmail-m208.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401833282.25670.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14D9CE692A833-2AA0-5B5EC@webmail-m208.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5CE56CEF-9FD9-4F75-8E1B-349F441EEFA3@snyderemail.com> I know I don't contribute much to the site but did I ever tell you how cool you make me feel. Just knowing you guys is incredible. Awesome history lesson Vance! You're the man. Best regards, Greg > On Jun 3, 2014, at 6:44 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > Now you're going to make me think a minute. Okay, it's like this. Each number corresponds to some common design theme or trait. The PC really did stand for Perry Cubmarine by the way, although they tended to downplay that later in the game. > > PC-1 & 2 were the experimental psubs style homebuilts, which don't really count here. > PC-3: was the original fore and aft design and the first commercially viable (3 built) > PC-4 was the first successful diver lock-out boat, Deep Diver/Shelf Diver (2 built) > PC-5 a hybrid or transition design between the 3s and what was to come (1 built) > PC-6 & 7 had other names (I suspect Opsub was one and the transfer bell another. > PC-8 the first bubble nose sub, 42" OD hull, twin battery pods (2 built) > PC-9 54" OD with lots of frustrum viewports (custom built for Brown & Root) (1 built) > PC-10 a 10,000' capable single sphere boat, never built > PC-11 another design study, never built. > PC-12 had 48" OD hulls, 28" conning towers, and twin pods. (5 built/4 obs, 1 DLO) > PC-13 (something military we never got to see). > PC-14 were 42" hulls, single releasable pods, low voltage, 24" conn. towers (2 built) > PC-15 was the second bubble nose sub built, a 54" OD hull with DLO (1 built) > PC-16 had three intersecting spheres for 3000 feet service (2 built) > PC-17 was a huge, long range multi-task beast with bunks and a bathroom-never built > PC-18 a 54" hull diameter upgrade on the old PC-4 design (6 built) > > The conning tower thing has to do with viewports. Six in the 24", Eight in the 28". All frustrum ports on all Perry subs are the same size (except the 16s, which are the same OD only thicker). The ARMS bells may have had a series number assigned but I never heard it. We also built a bunch of decompression chambers and sat systems both with and without bells, plus a parking lot full of wet subs, two underwater habitats and who knows what else. At any rate, I think it was 25 commercially viable free-swimming submersibles built over...um...I guess 20 years or so, along with all that other stuff. And then there came the ROVs, which I was not a part of. Perry was a world leader with those and (I think) the first ones to build a commercially available work class ROV for 10,000'. > > I got to tell you -- it was an exciting place to work. The thing is, we knew that we were making history every day. Yeah, we grumbled about the pay and bitched about the heat and all that, but there was just nothing like it anywhere (except in Vancouver at Hyco, of course, where they built (I think) 12 subs including Nuytco's Aquarius). > > Those were the days, for sure. And Hyco wins, as Uncle Phil assumed the mantle and carried on carrying on. Counting hard suits, I'd hate to even guess how many subs those guys have built up there in BC. Probably as many again as Perry and Hyco put together. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:08 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Vance, > How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 22:32:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 22:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5CE56CEF-9FD9-4F75-8E1B-349F441EEFA3@snyderemail.com> References: <1401833282.25670.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14D9CE692A833-2AA0-5B5EC@webmail-m208.sysops.aol.com> <5CE56CEF-9FD9-4F75-8E1B-349F441EEFA3@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: <8D14DB45F96F9B9-2EEC-5F595@webmail-d258.sysops.aol.com> Greg, You're welcome. It's nice to have somewhere to share all that sort of thing, as I'm afraid it will just get lost eventually. It's funny, though, thinking of it as history. I can still smell the tide line on the seawall out back in Riviera Beach, and the hot oil in the machine shop, and the grinders and welders in the big bay. It was...well, memorable. That's why I love wandering into Nuytco. New faces, new equipment, yes, but the feel is the same. Like coming home. I'm definitely looking forward to another dose of that in August. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 9:50 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I know I don't contribute much to the site but did I ever tell you how cool you make me feel. Just knowing you guys is incredible. Awesome history lesson Vance! You're the man. Best regards, Greg On Jun 3, 2014, at 6:44 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Now you're going to make me think a minute. Okay, it's like this. Each number corresponds to some common design theme or trait. The PC really did stand for Perry Cubmarine by the way, although they tended to downplay that later in the game. PC-1 & 2 were the experimental psubs style homebuilts, which don't really count here. PC-3: was the original fore and aft design and the first commercially viable (3 built) PC-4 was the first successful diver lock-out boat, Deep Diver/Shelf Diver (2 built) PC-5 a hybrid or transition design between the 3s and what was to come (1 built) PC-6 & 7 had other names (I suspect Opsub was one and the transfer bell another. PC-8 the first bubble nose sub, 42" OD hull, twin battery pods (2 built) PC-9 54" OD with lots of frustrum viewports (custom built for Brown & Root) (1 built) PC-10 a 10,000' capable single sphere boat, never built PC-11 another design study, never built. PC-12 had 48" OD hulls, 28" conning towers, and twin pods. (5 built/4 obs, 1 DLO) PC-13 (something military we never got to see). PC-14 were 42" hulls, single releasable pods, low voltage, 24" conn. towers (2 built) PC-15 was the second bubble nose sub built, a 54" OD hull with DLO (1 built) PC-16 had three intersecting spheres for 3000 feet service (2 built) PC-17 was a huge, long range multi-task beast with bunks and a bathroom-never built PC-18 a 54" hull diameter upgrade on the old PC-4 design (6 built) The conning tower thing has to do with viewports. Six in the 24", Eight in the 28". All frustrum ports on all Perry subs are the same size (except the 16s, which are the same OD only thicker). The ARMS bells may have had a series number assigned but I never heard it. We also built a bunch of decompression chambers and sat systems both with and without bells, plus a parking lot full of wet subs, two underwater habitats and who knows what else. At any rate, I think it was 25 commercially viable free-swimming submersibles built over...um...I guess 20 years or so, along with all that other stuff. And then there came the ROVs, which I was not a part of. Perry was a world leader with those and (I think) the first ones to build a commercially available work class ROV for 10,000'. I got to tell you -- it was an exciting place to work. The thing is, we knew that we were making history every day. Yeah, we grumbled about the pay and bitched about the heat and all that, but there was just nothing like it anywhere (except in Vancouver at Hyco, of course, where they built (I think) 12 subs including Nuytco's Aquarius). Those were the days, for sure. And Hyco wins, as Uncle Phil assumed the mantle and carried on carrying on. Counting hard suits, I'd hate to even guess how many subs those guys have built up there in BC. Probably as many again as Perry and Hyco put together. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:08 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Vance, How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 3 23:29:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 20:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8D14DB45F96F9B9-2EEC-5F595@webmail-d258.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401833282.25670.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14D9CE692A833-2AA0-5B5EC@webmail-m208.sysops.aol.com> <5CE56CEF-9FD9-4F75-8E1B-349F441EEFA3@snyderemail.com> <8D14DB45F96F9B9-2EEC-5F595@webmail-d258.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401852564.33862.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Thanks' I get it now.? How was the bow dome mounting ring angle achieved.? Was?the mounting ring ?welded into place and then a giant mill machined the face for the dome to sit onto.?? Hank On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 10:33:22 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg, You're welcome. It's nice to have somewhere to share all that sort of thing, as I'm afraid it will just get lost eventually. It's funny, though, thinking of it as history. I can still smell the tide line on the seawall out back in Riviera Beach, and the hot oil in the machine shop, and the grinders and welders in the big bay. It was...well, memorable. That's why I love wandering into Nuytco. New faces, new equipment, yes, but the feel is the same. Like coming home. I'm definitely looking forward to another dose of that in August. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 9:50 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I know I don't contribute much to the site but did I ever tell you?how cool you make me feel. Just knowing you guys is incredible.?Awesome history lesson Vance! You're the man. Best regards, Greg On Jun 3, 2014, at 6:44 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, > > >Now you're going to make me think a minute. Okay, it's like this. Each number corresponds to some common design theme or trait. The PC really did stand for Perry Cubmarine by the way, although they tended to downplay that later in the game. > > >PC-1 & 2 were the experimental psubs style homebuilts, which don't really count here. >PC-3: was the original fore and aft design and the first commercially viable (3 built) >PC-4 was the first successful diver lock-out boat, Deep Diver/Shelf Diver (2 built) >PC-5 a hybrid or transition design between the 3s and what was to come (1 built) >PC-6 & 7 had other names (I suspect Opsub was one and the transfer bell another. >PC-8 the first bubble nose sub, 42" OD hull, twin battery pods (2 built) >PC-9 54" OD with lots of frustrum viewports (custom built for Brown & Root) (1 built) >PC-10 a 10,000' capable single sphere boat, never built >PC-11 another design study, never built. >PC-12 had 48" OD hulls, 28" conning towers, and twin pods. (5 built/4 obs, 1 DLO) >PC-13 (something military we never got to see). >PC-14 were 42" hulls, single releasable pods, low voltage, 24" conn. towers (2 built) >PC-15 was the second bubble nose sub built, a 54" OD hull with DLO (1 built) >PC-16 had three intersecting spheres for 3000 feet service (2 built) >PC-17 was a huge, long range multi-task beast with bunks and a bathroom-never built >PC-18 a 54" hull diameter upgrade on the old PC-4 design (6 built) > > >The conning tower thing has to do with viewports. Six in the 24", Eight in the 28". All frustrum ports on all Perry subs are the same size (except the 16s, which are the same OD only thicker). The ARMS bells may have had a series number assigned but I never heard it. We also built a bunch of decompression chambers and sat systems both with and without bells, plus a parking lot full of wet subs, two underwater habitats and who knows what else. At any rate, I think it was 25 commercially viable free-swimming submersibles built over...um...I guess 20 years or so, along with all that other stuff. And then there came the ROVs, which I was not a part of. Perry was a world leader with those and (I think) the first ones to build a commercially available work class ROV for 10,000'. > > >I got to tell you -- it was an exciting place to work. The thing is, we knew that we were making history every day. Yeah, we grumbled about the pay and bitched about the heat and all that, but there was just nothing like it anywhere (except in Vancouver at Hyco, of course, where they built (I think) 12 subs including Nuytco's Aquarius). > > >Those were the days, for sure. And Hyco wins, as Uncle Phil assumed the mantle and carried on carrying on. Counting hard suits, I'd hate to even guess how many subs those guys have built up there in BC. Probably as many again as Perry and Hyco put together. > > >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:08 pm >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > >Vance, >How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number.? >Hank >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 07:32:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 07:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1401852564.33862.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401833282.25670.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14D9CE692A833-2AA0-5B5EC@webmail-m208.sysops.aol.com> <5CE56CEF-9FD9-4F75-8E1B-349F441EEFA3@snyderemail.com> <8D14DB45F96F9B9-2EEC-5F595@webmail-d258.sysops.aol.com> <1401852564.33862.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14DFFCF78A438-1174-5EF3E@webmail-va055.sysops.aol.com> Yes, that's exactly how it was done. The first ports were actual viewport frames with retaining rings. Later on, the had flat rings and the viewport, viewport frame and retaining ring assembly was then clamped to the hull. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 11:29 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Vance, Thanks' I get it now. How was the bow dome mounting ring angle achieved. Was the mounting ring welded into place and then a giant mill machined the face for the dome to sit onto. ? Hank On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 10:33:22 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Greg, You're welcome. It's nice to have somewhere to share all that sort of thing, as I'm afraid it will just get lost eventually. It's funny, though, thinking of it as history. I can still smell the tide line on the seawall out back in Riviera Beach, and the hot oil in the machine shop, and the grinders and welders in the big bay. It was...well, memorable. That's why I love wandering into Nuytco. New faces, new equipment, yes, but the feel is the same. Like coming home. I'm definitely looking forward to another dose of that in August. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 9:50 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) I know I don't contribute much to the site but did I ever tell you how cool you make me feel. Just knowing you guys is incredible. Awesome history lesson Vance! You're the man. Best regards, Greg On Jun 3, 2014, at 6:44 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Now you're going to make me think a minute. Okay, it's like this. Each number corresponds to some common design theme or trait. The PC really did stand for Perry Cubmarine by the way, although they tended to downplay that later in the game. PC-1 & 2 were the experimental psubs style homebuilts, which don't really count here. PC-3: was the original fore and aft design and the first commercially viable (3 built) PC-4 was the first successful diver lock-out boat, Deep Diver/Shelf Diver (2 built) PC-5 a hybrid or transition design between the 3s and what was to come (1 built) PC-6 & 7 had other names (I suspect Opsub was one and the transfer bell another. PC-8 the first bubble nose sub, 42" OD hull, twin battery pods (2 built) PC-9 54" OD with lots of frustrum viewports (custom built for Brown & Root) (1 built) PC-10 a 10,000' capable single sphere boat, never built PC-11 another design study, never built. PC-12 had 48" OD hulls, 28" conning towers, and twin pods. (5 built/4 obs, 1 DLO) PC-13 (something military we never got to see). PC-14 were 42" hulls, single releasable pods, low voltage, 24" conn. towers (2 built) PC-15 was the second bubble nose sub built, a 54" OD hull with DLO (1 built) PC-16 had three intersecting spheres for 3000 feet service (2 built) PC-17 was a huge, long range multi-task beast with bunks and a bathroom-never built PC-18 a 54" hull diameter upgrade on the old PC-4 design (6 built) The conning tower thing has to do with viewports. Six in the 24", Eight in the 28". All frustrum ports on all Perry subs are the same size (except the 16s, which are the same OD only thicker). The ARMS bells may have had a series number assigned but I never heard it. We also built a bunch of decompression chambers and sat systems both with and without bells, plus a parking lot full of wet subs, two underwater habitats and who knows what else. At any rate, I think it was 25 commercially viable free-swimming submersibles built over...um...I guess 20 years or so, along with all that other stuff. And then there came the ROVs, which I was not a part of. Perry was a world leader with those and (I think) the first ones to build a commercially available work class ROV for 10,000'. I got to tell you -- it was an exciting place to work. The thing is, we knew that we were making history every day. Yeah, we grumbled about the pay and bitched about the heat and all that, but there was just nothing like it anywhere (except in Vancouver at Hyco, of course, where they built (I think) 12 subs including Nuytco's Aquarius). Those were the days, for sure. And Hyco wins, as Uncle Phil assumed the mantle and carried on carrying on. Counting hard suits, I'd hate to even guess how many subs those guys have built up there in BC. Probably as many again as Perry and Hyco put together. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:08 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Vance, How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 09:41:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 08:41:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: Vance, Thank you so much for the history e-mail. That is so cool! Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hank, Now you're going to make me think a minute. Okay, it's like this. Each number corresponds to some common design theme or trait. The PC really did stand for Perry Cubmarine by the way, although they tended to downplay that later in the game. PC-1 & 2 were the experimental psubs style homebuilts, which don't really count here. PC-3: was the original fore and aft design and the first commercially viable (3 built) PC-4 was the first successful diver lock-out boat, Deep Diver/Shelf Diver (2 built) PC-5 a hybrid or transition design between the 3s and what was to come (1 built) PC-6 & 7 had other names (I suspect Opsub was one and the transfer bell another. PC-8 the first bubble nose sub, 42" OD hull, twin battery pods (2 built) PC-9 54" OD with lots of frustrum viewports (custom built for Brown & Root) (1 built) PC-10 a 10,000' capable single sphere boat, never built PC-11 another design study, never built. PC-12 had 48" OD hulls, 28" conning towers, and twin pods. (5 built/4 obs, 1 DLO) PC-13 (something military we never got to see). PC-14 were 42" hulls, single releasable pods, low voltage, 24" conn. towers (2 built) PC-15 was the second bubble nose sub built, a 54" OD hull with DLO (1 built) PC-16 had three intersecting spheres for 3000 feet service (2 built) PC-17 was a huge, long range multi-task beast with bunks and a bathroom-never built PC-18 a 54" hull diameter upgrade on the old PC-4 design (6 built) The conning tower thing has to do with viewports. Six in the 24", Eight in the 28". All frustrum ports on all Perry subs are the same size (except the 16s, which are the same OD only thicker). The ARMS bells may have had a series number assigned but I never heard it. We also built a bunch of decompression chambers and sat systems both with and without bells, plus a parking lot full of wet subs, two underwater habitats and who knows what else. At any rate, I think it was 25 commercially viable free-swimming submersibles built over...um...I guess 20 years or so, along with all that other stuff. And then there came the ROVs, which I was not a part of. Perry was a world leader with those and (I think) the first ones to build a commercially available work class ROV for 10,000'. I got to tell you -- it was an exciting place to work. The thing is, we knew that we were making history every day. Yeah, we grumbled about the pay and bitched about the heat and all that, but there was just nothing like it anywhere (except in Vancouver at Hyco, of course, where they built (I think) 12 subs including Nuytco's Aquarius). Those were the days, for sure. And Hyco wins, as Uncle Phil assumed the mantle and carried on carrying on. Counting hard suits, I'd hate to even guess how many subs those guys have built up there in BC. Probably as many again as Perry and Hyco put together. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:08 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Vance, How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 16:19:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 13:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Message-ID: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Wanted, One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 16:37:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 16:37:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have some old PC-1402 parts : ) Contact me off line if interested. Steve On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 4:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Wanted, > One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the > better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will > be in need of a major project. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 16:55:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 08:55:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> Hi Hank Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. Cheers Keith Gordon (NZ) On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Wanted, > One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 16:59:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 16:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is now in Vancouver. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Hi Hank Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. Cheers Keith Gordon (NZ) On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wanted, One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 17:09:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401916159.57969.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Kieth, I am interested, if you can help track him down. thanks' Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:59:52 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is now in Vancouver. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Hi Hank Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. Cheers Keith Gordon (NZ) On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wanted, >One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 17:06:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm Message-ID: <1401916009.28131.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, how important / unimportant, is it to have a rotating gripper on a? non working submarine. Most small rovs don't. On a lightweight manipulator it would save a bit of mucking about in the build,? & weight at the end?of the manipulator . Thanks, Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 17:10:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1401916159.57969.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> <1401916159.57969.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401916219.64848.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> It is amazing what we can find as a group Hank On , hank pronk wrote: Hi Kieth, I am interested, if you can help track him down. thanks' Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:59:52 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is now in Vancouver. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Hi Hank Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. Cheers Keith Gordon (NZ) On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wanted, >One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 17:13:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1401916219.64848.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> <1401916159.57969.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401916219.64848.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401916386.57212.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Steve, Can you send me a list of what you have to hankpronk at live.ca I am going to try to find a whole sub or at least most of a sub first.? If that fails then I will build one, I have a very nice heavy ?pressure hull already.? Hank On , hank pronk wrote: It is amazing what we can find as a group Hank On , hank pronk wrote: Hi Kieth, I am interested, if you can help track him down. thanks' Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:59:52 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is now in Vancouver. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Hi Hank Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. Cheers Keith Gordon (NZ) On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wanted, >One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? >Hank _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 17:22:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 17:22:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm In-Reply-To: <1401916009.28131.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401916009.28131.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It is nice to have, but you can always add rotation later. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 4, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, > how important / unimportant, is it to have a rotating gripper on a > non working submarine. > Most small rovs don't. > On a lightweight manipulator it would save a bit of mucking about in the build, > & weight at the end of the manipulator . > Thanks, > Alan > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 17:51:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 09:51:17 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <538f94e0.6a88440a.206a.64b4@mx.google.com> Hank, Have I got a deal for you. I am wanting to quit the Comsub. Not rusty but needs a little bit of work. Windows are out of date. Last dive a year ago. New batteries. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 8:19 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Wanted, One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project. Hank __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 17:52:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 09:52:49 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <908E744D-D340-4066-AF4E-C7B84746BD60@xtra.co.nz> He also had LR2 a GRP sub rated for 1200ft Keith On 5/06/2014, at 8:59 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is now in Vancouver. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted > > Hi Hank > Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. > Cheers > Keith Gordon (NZ) > > On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Wanted, >> One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 18:02:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 15:02:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <908E744D-D340-4066-AF4E-C7B84746BD60@xtra.co.nz> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> <908E744D-D340-4066-AF4E-C7B84746BD60@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <1401919340.538f976c39b4b@ssl.mecca.ca> FYI, Nuytco bought all Sverkers subs. Phil Quoting Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles : > He also had LR2 a GRP sub rated for 1200ft > Keith > > On 5/06/2014, at 8:59 AM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is > now in Vancouver. > > Vance > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted > > > > Hi Hank > > Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some > years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects > off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage > project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs > maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts > but could possibly find out if interested. > > Cheers > > Keith Gordon (NZ) > > > > On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >> Wanted, > >> One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the > better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be > in need of a major project. > >> Hank > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 18:07:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <908E744D-D340-4066-AF4E-C7B84746BD60@xtra.co.nz> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> <908E744D-D340-4066-AF4E-C7B84746BD60@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <1401919677.86256.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hugh, Thanks' for the offer, but I?really have my mind set on a ?Perry.? I am sure there is a member here that might be interested in your Com Sub.? She is a beauty! Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 5:53:11 PM, Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles wrote: He also had LR2 a GRP sub rated for 1200ft Keith On 5/06/2014, at 8:59 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is now in Vancouver. >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted > > >Hi Hank >Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. >Cheers >Keith Gordon (NZ) > > >On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Wanted, >>One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? >>Hank _______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 18:09:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1401919677.86256.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <0DAFDBE7-AD2D-4EB0-A062-818954778405@xtra.co.nz> <8D14E4F04CD9024-2A70-5F892@webmail-m280.sysops.aol.com> <908E744D-D340-4066-AF4E-C7B84746BD60@xtra.co.nz> <1401919677.86256.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401919745.37599.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dr Phil, You must know that sharing is good for the soul. :-) Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:07:57 PM, hank pronk wrote: Hugh, Thanks' for the offer, but I?really have my mind set on a ?Perry.? I am sure there is a member here that might be interested in your Com Sub.? She is a beauty! Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 5:53:11 PM, Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles wrote: He also had LR2 a GRP sub rated for 1200ft Keith On 5/06/2014, at 8:59 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hallstrom had PC-1202, Pisces VIII & Pisces X. I think that was all. 02 is now in Vancouver. >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 4:56 pm >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted > > >Hi Hank >Sverker Hallstrom had at least one Perry, I think two - I last saw it some years back in a yard at Jurong, Singapore. The Perrys were used on projects off Vietnam. It was together with Pisces 8 which we Borrowed for a salvage project off Australia some years ago. Don't know what happened to his subs maybe still there? Also not sure what happened to Sverker or his whereabouts but could possibly find out if interested. >Cheers >Keith Gordon (NZ) > > >On 5/06/2014, at 8:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Wanted, >>One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? >>Hank _______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 18:08:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm In-Reply-To: References: <1401916009.28131.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1401919708.14857.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Vance. I was thinking of having a long lightweight manipulator with camera that doubles as a camera mount for filming & periscope for collision avoidance on surfacing. So a rotator as an add on might make the unit too top heavy. If I decided on the rotator I would need to beef the whole unit up. Is the periscope a dumb idea? Regards Alan ________________________________ From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm It is nice to have, but you can always add rotation later. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Jun 4, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, >how important / unimportant, is it to have a rotating gripper on a? >non working submarine. >Most small rovs don't. >On a lightweight manipulator it would save a bit of mucking about in the build,? >& weight at the end?of the manipulator . >Thanks, >Alan _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 18:47:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 18:47:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <538f94e0.6a88440a.206a.64b4@mx.google.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <538f94e0.6a88440a.206a.64b4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hugh, will you please email me off-list (for some reason my account won't show me your address?). Thanks, Douglas Suhr On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > > Have I got a deal for you. I am wanting to quit the Comsub. Not rusty > but needs a little bit of work. Windows are out of date. Last dive a year > ago. New batteries. > > Cheers, > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, 5 June 2014 8:19 a.m. > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted > > > > Wanted, > > One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the > better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will > be in need of a major project. > > Hank > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 19:55:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 19:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm In-Reply-To: <1401919708.14857.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401916009.28131.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401919708.14857.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D14E67907E20FD-1C1C-6818C@webmail-va030.sysops.aol.com> Alan, I'm not sure how useful a TV periscope would be, especially when considering the weight and complexity of something you don't use very much. Besides that, light weight, in my experience, means one of two things at sea: bent or broken. As for the camera boom idea, I've seen a bunch of fine film made from a small camera piggy-backed right onto a manipulator. It saves you the need for a pan and tilt unit, can be stowed out of the way, and tells no lies about what you are trying to filch off the bottom. Operating subs without surface support is inviting trouble. They are your collision avoidance. Even in poor viz, you stop a few feet underwater and release an air bubble from the MBTs for them to locate you. We did that even with the most sophisticated tracking, just for visual confirmation. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 6:11 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm Thanks Vance. I was thinking of having a long lightweight manipulator with camera that doubles as a camera mount for filming & periscope for collision avoidance on surfacing. So a rotator as an add on might make the unit too top heavy. If I decided on the rotator I would need to beef the whole unit up. Is the periscope a dumb idea? Regards Alan From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm It is nice to have, but you can always add rotation later. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Jun 4, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, how important / unimportant, is it to have a rotating gripper on a non working submarine. Most small rovs don't. On a lightweight manipulator it would save a bit of mucking about in the build, & weight at the end of the manipulator . Thanks, Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 20:35:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 17:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm In-Reply-To: <8D14E67907E20FD-1C1C-6818C@webmail-va030.sysops.aol.com> References: <1401916009.28131.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1401919708.14857.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D14E67907E20FD-1C1C-6818C@webmail-va030.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1401928516.91524.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Vance, it was manipulator, periscope & camera mount, all in one but lightweight. I imagine I'll be doing a bit of diving on my own, hence the need for some sort of periscope. Another option could be just releasing a Buoy & coming up under it. I've also been looking at the option of a fly-out rov. I could send it up for a look around first. Could also send it in caves to look for crayfish with a big gripper attached. Alan ________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm Alan, I'm not sure how useful a TV periscope would be, especially when considering the weight and complexity of something you don't use very much. Besides that, light weight, in my experience, means one of two things at sea: bent or broken. As for the camera boom idea, I've seen a bunch of fine film made from a small camera piggy-backed right onto a manipulator. It saves you the need for a pan and tilt unit, can be stowed out of the way, and tells no lies about what you are trying to filch off the bottom. Operating subs without surface support is inviting trouble. They are your collision avoidance. Even in poor viz, you stop a few feet underwater and release an air bubble from the MBTs for them to locate you. We did that even with the most sophisticated tracking, just for visual confirmation. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 6:11 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm Thanks Vance. I was thinking of having a long lightweight manipulator with camera that doubles as a camera mount for filming & periscope for collision avoidance on surfacing. So a rotator as an add on might make the unit too top heavy. If I decided on the rotator I would need to beef the whole unit up. Is the periscope a dumb idea? Regards Alan ________________________________ From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator Arm It is nice to have, but you can always add rotation later. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Jun 4, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, >how important / unimportant, is it to have a rotating gripper on a? >non working submarine. >Most small rovs don't. >On a lightweight manipulator it would save a bit of mucking about in the build,? >& weight at the end?of the manipulator . >Thanks, >Alan _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 21:03:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 21:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sunken D-Day relics on PBS Message-ID: <3f518.3910fedc.40c11be2@aol.com> PBS TV, Nova: "D-Day's Sunken Secrets" is on right now in many locations. -Jim T. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 21:27:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 21:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sunken D-Day relics on PBS Message-ID: <3fe59.2e42b36e.40c12170@aol.com> Some great footage of familiar Canadian subs and the Nuytco logo. In a message dated 6/4/2014 8:04:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: PBS TV, Nova: "D-Day's Sunken Secrets" is on right now in many locations. -Jim T. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 21:47:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 18:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <538f94e0.6a88440a.206a.64b4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1401932853.12138.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Steve, Both your e mail addresses are not working for me, Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:47:49 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hugh, will you please email me off-list (for some reason my account won't show me your address?). Thanks, Douglas Suhr? On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, >Have I got a deal for you.? I am wanting to quit the Comsub.? Not rusty but needs a little bit of work.? Windows are out of date.? Last dive a year ago.? New batteries. >Cheers, >Hugh >? >From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 8:19 a.m. > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted >? >Wanted, >One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? >Hank > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com/ > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 22:51:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 22:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> All, I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an excellent hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for the nights of August 21, 22, and 23. Our headquarters hotel will be Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn. We have reserved 10 rooms each with two beds and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed. That should be good for 30 people. The room rate is $139 + tax. In addition, each room will receive a voucher for each day for a made-to-order breakfast in the The Oboe Cafe, one of the hotel's two restaurants. August is high season on the Washington coast, and these rooms would normally run over $200 per night. Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per night and is sold out. Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet provided by the hotel. If you wish to tack on a day either before or after the conference, please tell them so when you make your reservation. There is no way to tell right now if they will have a room available for extra days, so the sooner you can make your reservations the better. Many of the hotels in town are already sold out for those dates. Link below is _http://www.thelakewayinn.com_ (http://www.thelakewayinn.com/) . If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when checking in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins. It's always a good idea to get a confirmation number. A couple of times I would have been up a creek if i had not done so. If you would please email me when you make your reservation I can keep track of where we stand on available rooms and can respond accordingly. The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent email. PSUBS information and registration is at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ Jim T. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LakewayInnHotelInformation-08.21to24.2014-P-SubGroup.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 351478 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 4 23:20:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 20:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> References: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> Message-ID: <1401938446.72644.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jim, I think I've found it, is this it? (see attachment) Alan ________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 2:51 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session ?All, I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an excellent?hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for the nights of August 21, 22, and 23.? Our headquarters hotel will be Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn.? We have reserved 10 rooms each with two beds and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed.? That should be good for 30 people.? The room rate is $139 + tax.? In addition, each room will receive a voucher for each day for a made-to-order?breakfast in the The Oboe Cafe, one of the hotel's two restaurants.? August is high season on the Washington coast, and these rooms would normally?run over $200 per night.? Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per night and is sold out. ? Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet provided by the hotel.? If you wish to tack on a day either before or after the conference, please tell them so when you make your reservation.? There is no way to tell right now if they will have a room available for extra days, so the sooner you can make your reservations the better.? Many of the hotels in town are already sold out for those dates.??Link below?is http://www.thelakewayinn.com.? ? If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when checking in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins.? It's always a good idea to get a confirmation number.? A couple of times I would have been up a creek if i had not done so.?If you would please email me when you make your reservation I can keep track of where we stand on available rooms and can respond accordingly. ? The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent email.? PSUBS information and registration is at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ ? Jim T. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Best Western Plus.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 123448 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 5 00:26:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 00:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: <431d1.5b3fde46.40c14b6a@aol.com> Yeah, that's it, Alan, but I don't know if the manipulator arm still works. Jim In a message dated 6/4/2014 10:24:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, I think I've found it, is this it? (see attachment) Alan ____________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 2:51 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session All, I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an excellent hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for the nights of August 21, 22, and 23. Our headquarters hotel will be Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn. We have reserved 10 rooms each with two beds and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed. That should be good for 30 people. The room rate is $139 + tax. In addition, each room will receive a voucher for each day for a made-to-order breakfast in the The Oboe Cafe, one of the hotel's two restaurants. August is high season on the Washington coast, and these rooms would normally run over $200 per night. Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per night and is sold out. Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet provided by the hotel. If you wish to tack on a day either before or after the conference, please tell them so when you make your reservation. There is no way to tell right now if they will have a room available for extra days, so the sooner you can make your reservations the better. Many of the hotels in town are already sold out for those dates. Link below is _http://www.thelakewayinn.com_ (http://www.thelakewayinn.com/) . If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when checking in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins. It's always a good idea to get a confirmation number. A couple of times I would have been up a creek if i had not done so. If you would please email me when you make your reservation I can keep track of where we stand on available rooms and can respond accordingly. The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent email. PSUBS information and registration is at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ Jim T. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 5 00:40:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:40:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1401932853.12138.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <538f94e0.6a88440a.206a.64b4@mx.google.com> <1401932853.12138.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <538ff4b2.aadd440a.1d52.ffffc775@mx.google.com> Doug, What is your email. Mine as Jim's advice. hc.fulton at gmail.com or hfulton at q-subs.com From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 1:48 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Steve, Both your e mail addresses are not working for me, Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:47:49 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hugh, will you please email me off-list (for some reason my account won't show me your address?). Thanks, Douglas Suhr On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Have I got a deal for you. I am wanting to quit the Comsub. Not rusty but needs a little bit of work. Windows are out of date. Last dive a year ago. New batteries. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 8:19 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Wanted, One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project. Hank __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9895 (20140604) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9896 (20140605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 5 03:17:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 03:17:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <538ff4b2.aadd440a.1d52.ffffc775@mx.google.com> References: <1401913166.82476.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <538f94e0.6a88440a.206a.64b4@mx.google.com> <1401932853.12138.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <538ff4b2.aadd440a.1d52.ffffc775@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sorry for the confusion Hugh, I didn't realize this was a problem for so many. My email is spiritofcalypso at gmail.com Thanks, Douglas S. On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, What is your email. Mine as Jim?s advice. > > hc.fulton at gmail.com > > or > > hfulton at q-subs.com > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, 5 June 2014 1:48 p.m. > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted > > > > Steve, > > Both your e mail addresses are not working for me, > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:47:49 PM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hugh, will you please email me off-list (for some reason my account won't > show me your address?). Thanks, Douglas Suhr > > > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > > Have I got a deal for you. I am wanting to quit the Comsub. Not rusty > but needs a little bit of work. Windows are out of date. Last dive a year > ago. New batteries. > > Cheers, > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, 5 June 2014 8:19 a.m. > > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted > > > > Wanted, > > One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the > better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will > be in need of a major project. > > Hank > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9895 (20140604) __________ > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9896 (20140605) __________ > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9896 (20140605) __________ > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 5 19:23:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> References: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> Message-ID: <1402010580.19960.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jim, Mission accomplished, I am booked. Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:52:26 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?All, I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an excellent?hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for the nights of August 21, 22, and 23.? Our headquarters hotel will be Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn.? We have reserved 10 rooms each with two beds and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed.? That should be good for 30 people.? The room rate is $139 + tax.? In addition, each room will receive a voucher for each day for a made-to-order?breakfast in the The Oboe Cafe, one of the hotel's two restaurants.? August is high season on the Washington coast, and these rooms would normally?run over $200 per night.? Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per night and is sold out. ? Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet provided by the hotel.? If you wish to tack on a day either before or after the conference, please tell them so when you make your reservation.? There is no way to tell right now if they will have a room available for extra days, so the sooner you can make your reservations the better.? Many of the hotels in town are already sold out for those dates.??Link below?is http://www.thelakewayinn.com/.? ? If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when checking in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins.? It's always a good idea to get a confirmation number.? A couple of times I would have been up a creek if i had not done so.?If you would please email me when you make your reservation I can keep track of where we stand on available rooms and can respond accordingly. ? The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent email.? PSUBS information and registration is at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ ? Jim T. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 5 19:31:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 19:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: <7600d.40775fbe.40c257c6@aol.com> Thanks, Hank, I received a note from the hotel a little while ago that the reservation block would be input into their system either this afternoon or early tomorrow morning. I thought it had already been done, so I'm glad to hear you were able to reserve under it. Take care, Jim In a message dated 6/5/2014 6:24:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, Mission accomplished, I am booked. Hank On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:52:26 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an excellent hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for the nights of August 21, 22, and 23. Our headquarters hotel will be Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn. We have reserved 10 rooms each with two beds and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed. That should be good for 30 people. The room rate is $139 + tax. In addition, each room will receive a voucher for each day for a made-to-order breakfast in the The Oboe Cafe, one of the hotel's two restaurants. August is high season on the Washington coast, and these rooms would normally run over $200 per night. Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per night and is sold out. Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet provided by the hotel. If you wish to tack on a day either before or after the conference, please tell them so when you make your reservation. There is no way to tell right now if they will have a room available for extra days, so the sooner you can make your reservations the better. Many of the hotels in town are already sold out for those dates. Link below is http://www.thelakewayinn.com/. If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when checking in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins. It's always a good idea to get a confirmation number. A couple of times I would have been up a creek if i had not done so. If you would please email me when you make your reservation I can keep track of where we stand on available rooms and can respond accordingly. The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent email. PSUBS information and registration is at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ Jim T. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 5 23:09:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 20:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1402024184.16082.YahooMailIosMobile@web141505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> So much activity, I can't keep up!

Vance,

PC-13? Do you figure that with the Cold War timing, that it would have had something to do with deployment and or maintanence of the SOSUS network? What were Turtle and Sea Cliff doing?

I add my thanks to keeping us in tune with such a significant history in the commercial sector, interesting stuff!

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 5 23:15:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 20:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1402024527.72787.YahooMailIosMobile@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hank,

I'm a bit behind. Is your surface support scheme lift/launch or float-on? I thought I saw an email leaning to float-on, lots of interesting designs in the floating docks and heavy lift ships. Here in Florida we have plenty of used inventory in the old Hydrohoist systems. I've always found that system particularly interesting.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 01:27:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:27:16 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 08:01:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Scott, here's one. Jim http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By- Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756 &pt=Other_Boats In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 08:11:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 05:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1402024527.72787.YahooMailIosMobile@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1402024527.72787.YahooMailIosMobile@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1402056672.87106.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Joe, I am converting a boat that I already have.? It is a flat bottom steel hull.? I have started by moving it to a work site and removing the wheel house and side wheels.? I intend to cut away a portion of the hull to allow the sub to float into the boat from the back.? It will be a mono hull in the front and a pontoon hull in the back.? The boat is 36 feet long and will have a 17 foot space for the sub.? After the sub is inside the hull, I can lift it to above the water line or even onto the deck.? That is the plan so far, I am sure it will change a bit by the fall when I go hard at it. Hank On Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:15:27 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I'm a bit behind. Is your surface support scheme lift/launch or float-on? I thought I saw an email leaning to float-on, lots of interesting designs in the floating docks and heavy lift ships. Here in Florida we have plenty of used inventory in the old Hydrohoist systems. I've always found that system particularly interesting. Joe Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Sent: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 7:17:26 AM Sorry for the confusion Hugh, I didn't realize this was a problem for so many. My email is spiritofcalypso at gmail.com Thanks, Douglas S.? On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doug,? What is your email.? Mine as Jim?s? advice. >hc.fulton at gmail.com >or >hfulton at q-subs.com >? >? >? >? >From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 1:48 p.m. > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted >? >Steve, >Both your e mail addresses are not working for me, >Hank >? >On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:47:49 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? >Hugh, will you please email me off-list (for some reason my account won't show me your address?). Thanks, Douglas Suhr? >? >On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank, >Have I got a deal for you.? I am wanting to quit the Comsub.? Not rusty but needs a little bit of work.? Windows are out of date.? Last dive a year ago.? New batteries. >Cheers, >Hugh >? >From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 8:19 a.m. > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject:[PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted >? >Wanted, >One Perry submarine, preferably in North America.? The rustier the better!!?? I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project.? >Hank > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com/ > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9895 (20140604) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com/ > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9896 (20140605) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com/ > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9896 (20140605) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 08:14:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 05:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402056851.45642.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, My wife is still giggling and understands completely :-)? The trick seems to be, find a romantic spin on submarine building and travel, :-) Hank On Friday, June 6, 2014 8:01:50 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here's one. Jim http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By-Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756&pt=Other_Boats In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? >I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 08:26:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 00:26:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56BFD0F2-AD74-4BCF-B0D9-867B692BA60C@yahoo.com> Jim, that's Doug Jacksons Argonaut jnr painted blue. The original wood finish was much nicer. They are advertising it as being able to be used as a 1atm. I doubt it would go 15ft before imploding. I don't have an account so can't correct them. Someone could end up dead if they were silly enough to buy it & dive it as a 1 atm. Anyone with an account that can question the seller on this. There was another issue when Doug surfaced too quickly with the moon pool open. The sub bounced & compressed the internal air making it heavy resulting in an uncontrolled descent. http://www.submarineboat.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/06/2014, at 12:01 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Scott, here's one. > Jim > http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By-Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756&pt=Other_Boats > > In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. > I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 08:38:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Yes, it used to look much nicer. There are several youtube videos of when Doug had it, some of which depict mishaps. It has very limited utility and should only be used in shallow water by someone who really knows what he is doing. More suitable as a museum piece and for dives on special occasions. Jim In a message dated 6/6/2014 7:27:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, that's Doug Jacksons Argonaut jnr painted blue. The original wood finish was much nicer. They are advertising it as being able to be used as a 1atm. I doubt it would go 15ft before imploding. I don't have an account so can't correct them. Someone could end up dead if they were silly enough to buy it & dive it as a 1 atm. Anyone with an account that can question the seller on this. There was another issue when Doug surfaced too quickly with the moon pool open. The sub bounced & compressed the internal air making it heavy resulting in an uncontrolled descent. http://www.submarineboat.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/06/2014, at 12:01 am, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, here's one. Jim http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By- Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756 &pt=Other_Boats In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 08:52:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 07:52:20 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Jim,? I think Katy will keep looking. Haha. Would she be the first female psubber? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Jim, that's Doug Jacksons Argonaut jnr painted blue. The original wood finish was much nicer. They are advertising it as being able to be used as a 1atm. I doubt it would go 15ft before imploding. I don't have an account so can't correct them. Someone could end up dead if they were silly enough to buy it & dive it as a 1 atm. Anyone with an account that can question? the seller on this. There was another issue when Doug surfaced too quickly with the moon pool open. The sub bounced & compressed the internal air making it heavy resulting in an uncontrolled descent. http://www.submarineboat.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/06/2014, at 12:01 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here's one. Jim http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By-Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756&pt=Other_Boats ? In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 09:01:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Scott, I figured she already did enough of the work on Trustwothy to qualify. :) Jim In a message dated 6/6/2014 7:53:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, I think Katy will keep looking. Haha. Would she be the first female psubber? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jim, that's Doug Jacksons Argonaut jnr painted blue. The original wood finish was much nicer. They are advertising it as being able to be used as a 1atm. I doubt it would go 15ft before imploding. I don't have an account so can't correct them. Someone could end up dead if they were silly enough to buy it & dive it as a 1 atm. Anyone with an account that can question the seller on this. There was another issue when Doug surfaced too quickly with the moon pool open. The sub bounced & compressed the internal air making it heavy resulting in an uncontrolled descent. http://www.submarineboat.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/06/2014, at 12:01 am, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, here's one. Jim http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By- Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756 &pt=Other_Boats In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 09:18:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 08:18:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Haha. True.? -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I figured she already did enough of the work on Trustwothy to qualify.? :) Jim ? In a message dated 6/6/2014 7:53:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim,? I think Katy will keep looking. Haha. Would she be the first female psubber? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jim, that's Doug Jacksons Argonaut jnr painted blue. The original wood finish was much nicer. They are advertising it as being able to be used as a 1atm. I doubt it would go 15ft before imploding. I don't have an account so can't correct them. Someone could end up dead if they were silly enough to buy it & dive it as a 1 atm. Anyone with an account that can question? the seller on this. There was another issue when Doug surfaced too quickly with the moon pool open. The sub bounced & compressed the internal air making it heavy resulting in an uncontrolled descent. http://www.submarineboat.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/06/2014, at 12:01 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here's one. Jim http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By-Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756&pt=Other_Boats ? In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 09:54:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 06:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1402062840.21893.YahooMailIosMobile@web141505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> That's an Argonaut knockoff.

eGags, why the blue paint!

You could buy that and do something Steampunk that could be really cool.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 10:03:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 07:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <1402056672.87106.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1402063400.21889.YahooMailIosMobile@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hank,

Is that big enough for a well deck? The boat would have to sink down, so buoyancy would be needed higher up port and starboard.

Look at Blue Marlins platform and aft flotation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Blue_Marlin

Nice projects Hank!

Joe


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 10:25:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 07:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub hauler Message-ID: <1402064751.68436.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Joe, The boat will be like a catamaran for the last 17 feet, it is not going to sink to load. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 10:28:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:28:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1402024184.16082.YahooMailIosMobile@web141505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1402024184.16082.YahooMailIosMobile@web141505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8FE20E5D-8FB3-42B5-AAFE-273D254AD7CF@AOL.com> Maybe they skipped 13 for luck. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:09 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > So much activity, I can't keep up! > > Vance, > > PC-13? Do you figure that with the Cold War timing, that it would have had something to do with deployment and or maintanence of the SOSUS network? What were Turtle and Sea Cliff doing? > > I add my thanks to keeping us in tune with such a significant history in the commercial sector, interesting stuff! > > Joe > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad > > From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles ; > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 1:41:22 PM > > Vance, > Thank you so much for the history e-mail. That is so cool! > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > > Now you're going to make me think a minute. Okay, it's like this. Each number corresponds to some common design theme or trait. The PC really did stand for Perry Cubmarine by the way, although they tended to downplay that later in the game. > > PC-1 & 2 were the experimental psubs style homebuilts, which don't really count here. > PC-3: was the original fore and aft design and the first commercially viable (3 built) > PC-4 was the first successful diver lock-out boat, Deep Diver/Shelf Diver (2 built) > PC-5 a hybrid or transition design between the 3s and what was to come (1 built) > PC-6 & 7 had other names (I suspect Opsub was one and the transfer bell another. > PC-8 the first bubble nose sub, 42" OD hull, twin battery pods (2 built) > PC-9 54" OD with lots of frustrum viewports (custom built for Brown & Root) (1 built) > PC-10 a 10,000' capable single sphere boat, never built > PC-11 another design study, never built. > PC-12 had 48" OD hulls, 28" conning towers, and twin pods. (5 built/4 obs, 1 DLO) > PC-13 (something military we never got to see). > PC-14 were 42" hulls, single releasable pods, low voltage, 24" conn. towers (2 built) > PC-15 was the second bubble nose sub built, a 54" OD hull with DLO (1 built) > PC-16 had three intersecting spheres for 3000 feet service (2 built) > PC-17 was a huge, long range multi-task beast with bunks and a bathroom-never built > PC-18 a 54" hull diameter upgrade on the old PC-4 design (6 built) > > The conning tower thing has to do with viewports. Six in the 24", Eight in the 28". All frustrum ports on all Perry subs are the same size (except the 16s, which are the same OD only thicker). The ARMS bells may have had a series number assigned but I never heard it. We also built a bunch of decompression chambers and sat systems both with and without bells, plus a parking lot full of wet subs, two underwater habitats and who knows what else. At any rate, I think it was 25 commercially viable free-swimming submersibles built over...um...I guess 20 years or so, along with all that other stuff. And then there came the ROVs, which I was not a part of. Perry was a world leader with those and (I think) the first ones to build a commercially available work class ROV for 10,000'. > > I got to tell you -- it was an exciting place to work. The thing is, we knew that we were making history every day. Yeah, we grumbled about the pay and bitched about the heat and all that, but there was just nothing like it anywhere (except in Vancouver at Hyco, of course, where they built (I think) 12 subs including Nuytco's Aquarius). > > Those were the days, for sure. And Hyco wins, as Uncle Phil assumed the mantle and carried on carrying on. Counting hard suits, I'd hate to even guess how many subs those guys have built up there in BC. Probably as many again as Perry and Hyco put together. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 6:08 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Vance, > How do the Perry numbers work, is there more than one 1201 or is each sub assigned a specific number. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 11:29:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (seaquestor@gmail.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 08:29:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: <0y2jxvstwcrx788706n840b3.1402068597188@email.android.com> Jim, is that Doug's Old sub painted? Best Regards, David Colombo SeaQuestor Industries 804 College Ave. Santa Rosa, CA. 707.536.1424 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 11:53:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:53:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: <7a27b.7e73b015.40c33e01@aol.com> David, I think it must be, but I can't be absolutely sure. It's hard to imagine that anyone made another one like Doug's version. It really ought to be in a museum or inside a seafood restaurant looking as it did when Doug built it. Jim In a message dated 6/6/2014 10:30:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, is that Doug's Old sub painted? Best Regards, David Colombo SeaQuestor Industries 804 College Ave. Santa Rosa, CA. 707.536.1424 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, here's one. Jim http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By- Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756 &pt=Other_Boats In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 12:34:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Cotton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:34:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <7a27b.7e73b015.40c33e01@aol.com> References: <7a27b.7e73b015.40c33e01@aol.com> Message-ID: That is Doug's boat, pained an ugly blue. I did ping the seller about what was included, knowing the answers. It's missing the Scuba tanks, batteries and, most importantly the 13,000 lbs of lead ballast that it needs to submerge. I'm curious as to what these guys tell me, probably BS. I did several of the dives with Doug and it was a fun but very limited boat, as expected. It should be in a museum after sanding off all that ugly blue paint and re-coating with clear. It would take another $15,000 to get it to work, mostly in lead. Doug just borrowed the lead that he'd accumulated for the Sailboat, we'll be pouring that into the keels this summer. Regards, Greg On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > I think it must be, but I can't be absolutely sure. It's hard to imagine > that anyone made another one like Doug's version. It really ought to be in > a museum or inside a seafood restaurant looking as it did when Doug built > it. > Jim > > In a message dated 6/6/2014 10:30:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Jim, is that Doug's Old sub painted? > > *Best Regards,* > *David Colombo* > *SeaQuestor Industries* > > *804 College Ave.* > *Santa Rosa, CA.* > *707.536.1424 <707.536.1424>* > > > > > > > > via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Scott, here's one. > Jim > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBMARINE-5-Person-Liquidation-For-Nonprofit-Org-By-Donation-/261493331756?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ce237972c&item=261493331756&pt=Other_Boats > > In a message dated 6/6/2014 12:27:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have > a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my > projects. Haha. > I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could > fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she > said she is building a go cart. Haha > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 12:38:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 12:38:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <7a27b.7e73b015.40c33e01@aol.com> References: <7a27b.7e73b015.40c33e01@aol.com> Message-ID: <5391EE81.2070601@ohiohills.com> On 6/6/2014 11:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > David, > I think it must be, but I can't be absolutely sure. It's hard to > imagine that anyone made another one like Doug's version. It really > ought to be in a museum or inside a seafood restaurant looking as it > did when Doug built it. > When Doug was trying to get rid of it, he let me call some museums. I'm in Virginia, so I started here. I have the Marine Resources Commission, the Science Museum of Virginia, and the Mariners' Museum. The Science Museum has /Aluminaut/, and in that display they have a photo Richard Reynolds and Simon Lake together as they examine a model of /Aluminaut./ The museum in Paterson NJ, holding John Holland's work, refused it, as did the Carnagie Science Museum in Pittsburgh (which has the Guppy sub /Requin/ on display). All of them refused to pay for shipping the boat, even when they were made aware that the boat itself would cost nothing. Museum officials never like to spend money. It was obvious to me that the "directors" with whom I spoke lack the authority to make any significant decisions, but the worst part was that they lacked the curiosity to ask questions. M --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 12:38:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 12:38:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <7a27b.7e73b015.40c33e01@aol.com> References: <7a27b.7e73b015.40c33e01@aol.com> Message-ID: <5391EE87.6050104@ohiohills.com> On 6/6/2014 11:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > David, > I think it must be, but I can't be absolutely sure. It's hard to > imagine that anyone made another one like Doug's version. It really > ought to be in a museum or inside a seafood restaurant looking as it > did when Doug built it. > When Doug was trying to get rid of it, he let me call some museums. I'm in Virginia, so I started here. I have the Marine Resources Commission, the Science Museum of Virginia, and the Mariners' Museum. The Science Museum has /Aluminaut/, and in that display they have a photo Richard Reynolds and Simon Lake together as they examine a model of /Aluminaut./ The museum in Paterson NJ, holding John Holland's work, refused it, as did the Carnagie Science Museum in Pittsburgh (which has the Guppy sub /Requin/ on display). All of them refused to pay for shipping the boat, even when they were made aware that the boat itself would cost nothing. Museum officials never like to spend money. It was obvious to me that the "directors" with whom I spoke lack the authority to make any significant decisions, but the worst part was that they lacked the curiosity to ask questions. M --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 12:45:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 12:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: <7c093.55ed67b3.40c34a2d@aol.com> Greg and Michael, thanks for the info and definitive answers. Scott, see what you stirred up with an innocent question about looking for a sub project! -Jim In a message dated 6/6/2014 11:39:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: On 6/6/2014 11:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, I think it must be, but I can't be absolutely sure. It's hard to imagine that anyone made another one like Doug's version. It really ought to be in a museum or inside a seafood restaurant looking as it did when Doug built it. When Doug was trying to get rid of it, he let me call some museums. I'm in Virginia, so I started here. I have the Marine Resources Commission, the Science Museum of Virginia, and the Mariners' Museum. The Science Museum has Aluminaut, and in that display they have a photo Richard Reynolds and Simon Lake together as they examine a model of Aluminaut. The museum in Paterson NJ, holding John Holland's work, refused it, as did the Carnagie Science Museum in Pittsburgh (which has the Guppy sub Requin on display). All of them refused to pay for shipping the boat, even when they were made aware that the boat itself would cost nothing. Museum officials never like to spend money. It was obvious to me that the "directors" with whom I spoke lack the authority to make any significant decisions, but the worst part was that they lacked the curiosity to ask questions. M ____________________________________ (http://www.avast.com/) This email is free from viruses and malware because _avast! Antivirus_ (http://www.avast.com/) protection is active. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 14:59:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 06 Jun 2014 18:59 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1WszMt-259UBM0@fwd09.t-online.de> Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 15:05:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:05:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <1WszMt-259UBM0@fwd09.t-online.de> References: <1WszMt-259UBM0@fwd09.t-online.de> Message-ID: Since I have seen both Sgt. Peppers and Katy I do believe she would be a good size fit. She is petite enough : ) On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. > > vbr Carsten > > "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: > > So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have > a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my > projects. Haha. > I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could > fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she > said she is building a go cart. Haha > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 17:19:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 23:19:03 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And I know a Mantis for sale. Also small.. and Euro 40.000,-.. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juni 2014 21:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Since I have seen both Sgt. Peppers and Katy I do believe she would be a good size fit. She is petite enough : ) On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " wrote: Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Afb0946.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 53323 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Afb0945.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49770 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 18:33:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402093992.28750.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brent Hartwig might be interested in getting rid of his K250. Last I knew it was in parts at his parents house in Preist Lake Idaho. That's only 400 kms from Bellingham. He has been in Hawaii for some time now. Alan ________________________________ From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine And I know a Mantis for sale. Also small.. and Euro 40.000,-.. ? Emile ? ________________________________ Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juni 2014 21:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine ? Since I have seen both Sgt. Peppers and Katy I do believe she would be a good size fit. She is petite enough : ) ? On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM, " Carsten Standfu? " wrote: Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten ? "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 18:59:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 17:59:38 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: It's all Katy's fault. Hahaha. -Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Greg and Michael, thanks for the info and definitive?answers. Scott, see what you stirred up with an innocent question about looking for a sub project! -Jim ? In a message dated 6/6/2014 11:39:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: On 6/6/2014 11:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David, I think it must be, but?I can't be absolutely sure.? It's hard to imagine that anyone made another one like Doug's version. It really ought to be in a museum or inside a seafood restaurant looking as it did when Doug built it. When Doug was trying to get rid of it, he let me call some museums.? I'm in Virginia, so I started here.? I have the Marine Resources Commission, the Science Museum of Virginia, and the Mariners' Museum.? The Science Museum has Aluminaut, and in that display they have a photo Richard Reynolds and Simon Lake together as they examine a model of Aluminaut.? The museum in Paterson NJ, holding John Holland's work, refused it, as did the Carnagie Science Museum in Pittsburgh (which has the Guppy sub Requin on display).? All of them refused to pay for shipping the boat, even when they were made aware that the boat itself would cost nothing. Museum officials never like to spend money.? It was obvious to me that the "directors" with whom I spoke lack the authority to make any significant decisions, but the worst part was that they lacked the curiosity to ask questions. M This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 19:04:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 18:04:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Does Sgt. Peppers need work done? Or is it in operating condition? Steve- Katy would be the right size for it. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone""Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles" wrote:Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten ? "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 19:06:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 18:06:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Brent Hartwig might be interested in getting rid of his K250. Last I knew it was in parts at his parents house in Preist Lake Idaho. That's only 400 kms from Bellingham. He has been in Hawaii for some time now. Alan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine And I know a Mantis for sale. Also small.. and Euro 40.000,-.. ? Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juni 2014 21:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine ? Since I have seen both Sgt. Peppers and Katy I do believe she would be a good size fit. She is petite enough : ) ? On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM, " Carsten Standfu? " wrote: Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten ? "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 19:46:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 16:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402098367.77725.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Scott, my latest email contact was brenthartwig at hotmail.com I can try & sound him out if you like. Some times he is hard to nail down & may be easier to contact on facebook. I believe he had sand blasted & painted the hull, but there was still a lot to do. Alan ________________________________ From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brent Hartwig might be interested in getting rid of his K250. Last I knew it was in parts at his parents house in Preist Lake Idaho. That's only 400 kms from Bellingham. He has been in Hawaii for some time now. Alan ________________________________ From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine And I know a Mantis for sale. Also small.. and Euro 40.000,-.. ? Emile ? ________________________________ Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juni 2014 21:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine ? Since I have seen both Sgt. Peppers and Katy I do believe she would be a good size fit. She is petite enough : ) ? On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM, " Carsten Standfu? " wrote: Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten ? "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 19:53:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 18:53:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: <8kximd757w940a0s0mdso17m.1402098786845@email.android.com> Very cool. Thanks, Alan Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Scott, my latest email contact was brenthartwig at hotmail.com I can try & sound him out if you like. Some times he is hard to nail down & may be easier to contact on facebook. I believe he had sand blasted & painted the hull, but there was still a lot to do. Alan From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brent Hartwig might be interested in getting rid of his K250. Last I knew it was in parts at his parents house in Preist Lake Idaho. That's only 400 kms from Bellingham. He has been in Hawaii for some time now. Alan From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine And I know a Mantis for sale. Also small.. and Euro 40.000,-.. ? Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juni 2014 21:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine ? Since I have seen both Sgt. Peppers and Katy I do believe she would be a good size fit. She is petite enough : ) ? On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM, " Carsten Standfu? " wrote: Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten ? "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 19:57:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 06 Jun 2014 23:57 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1Wt41J-2O7JJI0@fwd27.t-online.de> Need a new battery, and inspection of all parts. And maybe renew of all rubber gaskets and o-rings. Sorry no corrosion to fix. "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Does Sgt. Peppers need work done? Or is it in operating condition? Steve- Katy would be the right size for it. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ""Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha. I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 19:59:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 19:59:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <539255ED.7080106@psubs.org> Be careful. Hartwig's sub was essentially scrap when he got it. It had been sitting open in the weather for years. In my opinion you would be wasting your money spending MUCH more to refurbish than simply starting with new metal. You think Steve McQueen had problems with his sub? Wait till you see Hartwig's. Neither Hartwig nor Jackson ever let safety get in the way of doing anything they wanted. On 6/6/2014 7:06 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down > our ally! > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 20:06:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Katy needs a new sub of her own Message-ID: <1402099618.67530.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, If you get a hold of the guy in Idaho, I can run down and inspect it for you.?? I am only 3 hr from Priest Lake. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 20:11:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 18:11:21 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <539255ED.7080106@psubs.org> References: <539255ED.7080106@psubs.org> Message-ID: <363F64BD-1B64-4899-A5F5-2C3A590D79EB@snyderemail.com> Haha! "... never let safety get in the way of what they were doing." That is such a kind way of saying it. G > On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:59 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Be careful. Hartwig's sub was essentially scrap when he got it. It had been sitting open in the weather for years. In my opinion you would be wasting your money spending MUCH more to refurbish than simply starting with new metal. You think Steve McQueen had problems with his sub? Wait till you see Hartwig's. Neither Hartwig nor Jackson ever let safety get in the way of doing anything they wanted. > > >> On 6/6/2014 7:06 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 20:19:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <539255ED.7080106@psubs.org> References: <539255ED.7080106@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1402100355.82625.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Agree Jon. :) I think it would be cool if she built her own sub from scratch. It would be a very news worthy event & Katy would have a lot of help. Some times there is more work in restoring than just building the thing. Alan ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Be careful.? Hartwig's sub was essentially scrap when he got it.? It had been sitting open in the weather for years.? In my opinion you would be wasting your money spending MUCH more to refurbish than simply starting with new metal.? You think Steve McQueen had problems with his sub?? Wait till you see Hartwig's.? Neither Hartwig nor Jackson ever let safety get in the way of doing anything they wanted. On 6/6/2014 7:06 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 21:36:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 20:36:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: Ok. Thanks Jon -Scott Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Be careful.? Hartwig's sub was essentially scrap when he got it.? It had been sitting open in the weather for years.? In my opinion you would be wasting your money spending MUCH more to refurbish than simply starting with new metal.? You think Steve McQueen had problems with his sub?? Wait till you see Hartwig's.? Neither Hartwig nor Jackson ever let safety get in the way of doing anything they wanted. On 6/6/2014 7:06 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 6 21:37:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 20:37:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Katy needs a new sub of her own Message-ID: Cool. Thanks Hank -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, If you get a hold of the guy in Idaho, I can run down and inspect it for you.?? I am only 3 hr from Priest Lake. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 06:25:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 07 Jun 2014 10:25 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <1402100355.82625.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <539255ED.7080106@psubs.org> <1402100355.82625.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1WtDow-1k4Uj20@fwd41.t-online.de> If somebody decide really to build a original replica of a Seehund or Biber. I will support him with drawings. Biber is a normal Psub size but Seehund is a sea going longtime project for oneman show. "Alan James via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Agree Jon. :) I think it would be cool if she built her own sub from scratch. It would be a very news worthy event & Katy would have a lot of help. Some times there is more work in restoring than just building the thing. Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Be careful. Hartwig's sub was essentially scrap when he got it. It had been sitting open in the weather for years. In my opinion you would be wasting your money spending MUCH more to refurbish than simply starting with new metal. You think Steve McQueen had problems with his sub? Wait till you see Hartwig's. Neither Hartwig nor Jackson ever let safety get in the way of doing anything they wanted. On 6/6/2014 7:06 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 07:06:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 06:06:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question Message-ID: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 08:12:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 05:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. What can you compare it too, a muscle car?? You can buy beautifully restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one.??PSUB's ?also,?are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car.? All you can do is look at recent sales.? Lake Diver, a well proven sub did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he was asking 45K.? I have no idea what the status is on it now.? A K350 sold at auction for under 20K If I recall.? I have my own ?formula, for a base price,? 10 dollars per foot of dive capability.? I think that number is about right, for a functioning non certified? PSUB.? I know?some PSUB owners are saying "I would never sell for that"? but I think that is the reality.? Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) Hank ? On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 08:23:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 07:23:07 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question Message-ID: Hank, I know that a sub for sale has alot to do with how bad someone wants it and how bad someone wants tp sell it. I'm sure a little bit has to do with the features, but mostly supply and demand. I never hear much about submarines for sale and how much they end up selling for. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. What can you compare it too, a muscle car?? You can buy beautifully restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one.??PSUB's ?also,?are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car.? All you can do is look at recent sales.? Lake Diver, a well proven sub did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he was asking 45K.? I have no idea what the status is on it now.? A K350 sold at auction for under 20K If I recall.? I have my own ?formula, for a base price,? 10 dollars per foot of dive capability.? I think that number is about right, for a functioning non certified? PSUB.? I know?some PSUB owners are saying "I would never sell for that"? but I think that is the reality.? Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) Hank ? On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 08:57:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 07 Jun 2014 12:57 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the material cost. A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not spend more than 1-2 K USD. Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but not more. A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. Same with class - just double the figure. A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - its cheaper to build a new hull. Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some 25 Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over 20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still nobody want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but not for 40K as request. Maybe 5 K is realistic. Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. Lauderdale. Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos me another 130K. On that days I decide to build my own sub. A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your requirements list. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Scott, That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. What can you compare it too, a muscle car? You can buy beautifully restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one. PSUB's also, are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car. All you can do is look at recent sales. Lake Diver, a well proven sub did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he was asking 45K. I have no idea what the status is on it now. A K350 sold at auction for under 20K If I recall. I have my own formula, for a base price, 10 dollars per foot of dive capability. I think that number is about right, for a functioning non certified PSUB. I know some PSUB owners are saying "I would never sell for that" but I think that is the reality. Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) Hank On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 09:58:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 09:58:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> Message-ID: Hank, I like you very much and don't want to offend you here, but I must argue your rule of $10 / foot of dive capability. That would make a K-250 $2500 base price and K-350 $3500 base price? That doesn't seem to factor in the labor of hull construction at all. I do understand the point that you and Carsten are making, but I feel this is a classic example of "selling" ourselves short. Even a humble K-boat should be treated as a specialized vessel. Now Lake Diver was listed for a long time at $145,000 which in my opinion was probably asking a bit too much, but when reduced to $45,000 I felt that was fair. Hank, if you have any K-boats that you want off your hands for the price of your rule, please let me know :) ~ Douglas S. On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 AM, "Carsten Standfu? " < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the > material cost. > > A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not > spend more than 1-2 K USD. > Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but not > more. > > A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like > Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. > Same with class - just double the figure. > > A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - > its cheaper to build a new hull. > > Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some 25 > Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over > 20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still nobody > want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. > This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general > overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. > > The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but not > for 40K as request. > Maybe 5 K is realistic. > > Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. > Lauderdale. > Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. > But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos me > another 130K. > On that days I decide to build my own sub. > > A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your > requirements list. > > vbr Carsten > > "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: > > Scott, > That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. > What can you compare it too, a muscle car? You can buy beautifully > restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one. PSUB's > also, are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car. > All you can do is look at recent sales. Lake Diver, a well proven sub did > not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he > was asking 45K. I have no idea what the status is on it now. A K350 sold > at auction for under 20K If I recall. I have my own formula, for a base > price, 10 dollars per foot of dive capability. I think that number is > about right, for a functioning non certified PSUB. I know some PSUB > owners are saying "I would never sell for that" but I think that is the > reality. Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) > Hank > > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a > turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 10:15:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 10:15:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> Message-ID: I suspect Hank just made a typo and dropped one zero, because about $25K for a K250 and $35K for a K350 would be normal prices. Otherwise, I'll be racing you Douglas in offering to buy all Hank's subs! Best, Alec On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, I like you very much and don't want to offend you here, but I must > argue your rule of $10 / foot of dive capability. That would make a K-250 > $2500 base price and K-350 $3500 base price? That doesn't seem to factor in > the labor of hull construction at all. I do understand the point that you > and Carsten are making, but I feel this is a classic example of "selling" > ourselves short. Even a humble K-boat should be treated as a specialized > vessel. > > Now Lake Diver was listed for a long time at $145,000 which in my opinion > was probably asking a bit too much, but when reduced to $45,000 I felt that > was fair. Hank, if you have any K-boats that you want off your hands for > the price of your rule, please let me know :) ~ Douglas S. > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 AM, "Carsten Standfu? " < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the >> material cost. >> >> A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not >> spend more than 1-2 K USD. >> Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but >> not more. >> >> A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like >> Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. >> Same with class - just double the figure. >> >> A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - >> its cheaper to build a new hull. >> >> Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some 25 >> Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over >> 20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still >> nobody want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. >> This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general >> overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. >> >> The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but not >> for 40K as request. >> Maybe 5 K is realistic. >> >> Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. >> Lauderdale. >> Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. >> But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos >> me another 130K. >> On that days I decide to build my own sub. >> >> A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your >> requirements list. >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" >> schrieb: >> >> Scott, >> That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. >> What can you compare it too, a muscle car? You can buy beautifully >> restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one. PSUB's >> also, are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car. >> All you can do is look at recent sales. Lake Diver, a well proven sub >> did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think >> he was asking 45K. I have no idea what the status is on it now. A K350 >> sold at auction for under 20K If I recall. I have my own formula, for a >> base price, 10 dollars per foot of dive capability. I think that number >> is about right, for a functioning non certified PSUB. I know some PSUB >> owners are saying "I would never sell for that" but I think that is the >> reality. Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a >> turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 10:32:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 10:32:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> Message-ID: Ah, a plausible scenario Alec. On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I suspect Hank just made a typo and dropped one zero, because about $25K > for a K250 and $35K for a K350 would be normal prices. Otherwise, I'll be > racing you Douglas in offering to buy all Hank's subs! > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hank, I like you very much and don't want to offend you here, but I must >> argue your rule of $10 / foot of dive capability. That would make a K-250 >> $2500 base price and K-350 $3500 base price? That doesn't seem to factor in >> the labor of hull construction at all. I do understand the point that you >> and Carsten are making, but I feel this is a classic example of "selling" >> ourselves short. Even a humble K-boat should be treated as a specialized >> vessel. >> >> Now Lake Diver was listed for a long time at $145,000 which in my opinion >> was probably asking a bit too much, but when reduced to $45,000 I felt that >> was fair. Hank, if you have any K-boats that you want off your hands for >> the price of your rule, please let me know :) ~ Douglas S. >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 AM, "Carsten Standfu? " < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the >>> material cost. >>> >>> A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not >>> spend more than 1-2 K USD. >>> Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but >>> not more. >>> >>> A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like >>> Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. >>> Same with class - just double the figure. >>> >>> A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - >>> its cheaper to build a new hull. >>> >>> Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some >>> 25 Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over >>> 20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still >>> nobody want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. >>> This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general >>> overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. >>> >>> The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but >>> not for 40K as request. >>> Maybe 5 K is realistic. >>> >>> Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. >>> Lauderdale. >>> Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. >>> But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos >>> me another 130K. >>> On that days I decide to build my own sub. >>> >>> A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your >>> requirements list. >>> >>> vbr Carsten >>> >>> "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" >>> schrieb: >>> >>> Scott, >>> That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. >>> What can you compare it too, a muscle car? You can buy beautifully >>> restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one. PSUB's >>> also, are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car. >>> All you can do is look at recent sales. Lake Diver, a well proven sub >>> did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think >>> he was asking 45K. I have no idea what the status is on it now. A K350 >>> sold at auction for under 20K If I recall. I have my own formula, for a >>> base price, 10 dollars per foot of dive capability. I think that number >>> is about right, for a functioning non certified PSUB. I know some PSUB >>> owners are saying "I would never sell for that" but I think that is the >>> reality. Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does >>> a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 10:41:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 07:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1402152092.4820.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, Thank you for having faith, yes, I was back spacing and lost a zero.? :-) On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:33:11 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ah, a plausible scenario Alec. ? On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I suspect Hank just made a typo and dropped one zero, because about $25K for a K250 and $35K for a K350 would be normal prices. Otherwise, I'll be racing you Douglas in offering to buy all Hank's subs! > > >Best, > >Alec > > > >On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hank, I like you very much and don't want to offend you here, but I must argue your rule of $10 / foot of dive capability. That would make a K-250 $2500 base price and K-350 $3500 base price? That doesn't seem to factor in the labor of hull construction at all. I do understand the point that you and Carsten are making, but I feel this is a classic example of "selling" ourselves short. Even a humble K-boat should be treated as a specialized vessel.? >> >> >>Now Lake Diver was listed for a long time at $145,000 which in my opinion was probably asking a bit too much, but when reduced to $45,000 I felt that was fair. Hank, if you have any K-boats that you want off your hands for the price of your rule, please let me know :) ~ Douglas S.? >> >> >> >>On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 AM, "Carsten Standfu? " wrote: >> >> >>>Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the material cost.?? >>> >>>A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not spend more than 1-2 K USD. >>>Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but not more. >>> >>>A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. >>>Same with class - just double the figure. >>> >>>A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - its cheaper to build a new hull. >>> >>>Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some 25 Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over >>>20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still nobody want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. >>>This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. >>> >>>The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but not for 40K as request. >>>Maybe?5 K is realistic. >>> >>>Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. Lauderdale. >>>Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. >>>But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos me another 130K. >>>On that days I decide to build my own sub. >>> >>>A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your requirements list. >>> >>>vbr Carsten >>> >>>"hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: >>>Scott, >>>>That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. >>>>What can you compare it too, a muscle car?? You can buy beautifully restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one.??PSUB's ?also,?are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car.? >>>>All you can do is look at recent sales.? Lake Diver, a well proven sub did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he was asking 45K.? I have no idea what the status is on it now.? A K350 sold at auction for under 20K If I recall.? I have my own ?formula, for a base price,? 10 dollars per foot of dive capability.? I think that number is about right, for a functioning non certified? PSUB.? I know?some PSUB owners are saying "I would never sell for that"? but I think that is the reality.? Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) >>>>Hank >>>>? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? >>>>Thanks, >>>>Scott Waters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 11:50:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 08:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: <1402152092.4820.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> <1402152092.4820.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1402156232.2173.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Douglas, I agree that Lake Diver at 45K was a fair price, yet it did not sell as far as I know.? I offered 25K for Lake diver a few years back.? In my mind, an item is worth what ever the highest offer is.? That Makes Lake Diver worth at least 25K Hank On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:41:52 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Thank you for having faith, yes, I was back spacing and lost a zero.? :-) On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:33:11 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ah, a plausible scenario Alec. ? On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I suspect Hank just made a typo and dropped one zero, because about $25K for a K250 and $35K for a K350 would be normal prices. Otherwise, I'll be racing you Douglas in offering to buy all Hank's subs! > > >Best, > >Alec > > > >On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hank, I like you very much and don't want to offend you here, but I must argue your rule of $10 / foot of dive capability. That would make a K-250 $2500 base price and K-350 $3500 base price? That doesn't seem to factor in the labor of hull construction at all. I do understand the point that you and Carsten are making, but I feel this is a classic example of "selling" ourselves short. Even a humble K-boat should be treated as a specialized vessel.? >> >> >>Now Lake Diver was listed for a long time at $145,000 which in my opinion was probably asking a bit too much, but when reduced to $45,000 I felt that was fair. Hank, if you have any K-boats that you want off your hands for the price of your rule, please let me know :) ~ Douglas S.? >> >> >> >>On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 AM, "Carsten Standfu? " wrote: >> >> >>>Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the material cost.?? >>> >>>A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not spend more than 1-2 K USD. >>>Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but not more. >>> >>>A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. >>>Same with class - just double the figure. >>> >>>A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - its cheaper to build a new hull. >>> >>>Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some 25 Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over >>>20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still nobody want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. >>>This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. >>> >>>The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but not for 40K as request. >>>Maybe?5 K is realistic. >>> >>>Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. Lauderdale. >>>Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. >>>But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos me another 130K. >>>On that days I decide to build my own sub. >>> >>>A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your requirements list. >>> >>>vbr Carsten >>> >>>"hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: >>>Scott, >>>>That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. >>>>What can you compare it too, a muscle car?? You can buy beautifully restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one.??PSUB's ?also,?are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car.? >>>>All you can do is look at recent sales.? Lake Diver, a well proven sub did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he was asking 45K.? I have no idea what the status is on it now.? A K350 sold at auction for under 20K If I recall.? I have my own ?formula, for a base price,? 10 dollars per foot of dive capability.? I think that number is about right, for a functioning non certified? PSUB.? I know?some PSUB owners are saying "I would never sell for that"? but I think that is the reality.? Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) >>>>Hank >>>>? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? >>>>Thanks, >>>>Scott Waters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 12:34:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:34:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: <1402156232.2173.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> <1402152092.4820.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1402156232.2173.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <21435778-42DD-4F15-9A56-504445FA8A0B@gmail.com> Mark Ragan just bought Lake Diver, but I don't know how much he paid. Best, Alec > On Jun 7, 2014, at 11:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Douglas, > I agree that Lake Diver at 45K was a fair price, yet it did not sell as far as I know. I offered 25K for Lake diver a few years back. In my mind, an item is worth what ever the highest offer is. That Makes Lake Diver worth at least 25K > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:41:52 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > Thank you for having faith, yes, I was back spacing and lost a zero. :-) > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:33:11 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Ah, a plausible scenario Alec. > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I suspect Hank just made a typo and dropped one zero, because about $25K for a K250 and $35K for a K350 would be normal prices. Otherwise, I'll be racing you Douglas in offering to buy all Hank's subs! > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, I like you very much and don't want to offend you here, but I must argue your rule of $10 / foot of dive capability. That would make a K-250 $2500 base price and K-350 $3500 base price? That doesn't seem to factor in the labor of hull construction at all. I do understand the point that you and Carsten are making, but I feel this is a classic example of "selling" ourselves short. Even a humble K-boat should be treated as a specialized vessel. > > Now Lake Diver was listed for a long time at $145,000 which in my opinion was probably asking a bit too much, but when reduced to $45,000 I felt that was fair. Hank, if you have any K-boats that you want off your hands for the price of your rule, please let me know :) ~ Douglas S. > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 AM, "Carsten Standfu? " wrote: > Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the material cost. > > A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not spend more than 1-2 K USD. > Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but not more. > > A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. > Same with class - just double the figure. > > A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - its cheaper to build a new hull. > > Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some 25 Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over > 20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still nobody want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. > This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. > > The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but not for 40K as request. > Maybe 5 K is realistic. > > Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. Lauderdale. > Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. > But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos me another 130K. > On that days I decide to build my own sub. > > A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your requirements list. > > vbr Carsten > > "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Scott, > That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. > What can you compare it too, a muscle car? You can buy beautifully restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one. PSUB's also, are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car. > All you can do is look at recent sales. Lake Diver, a well proven sub did not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he was asking 45K. I have no idea what the status is on it now. A K350 sold at auction for under 20K If I recall. I have my own formula, for a base price, 10 dollars per foot of dive capability. I think that number is about right, for a functioning non certified PSUB. I know some PSUB owners are saying "I would never sell for that" but I think that is the reality. Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) > Hank > > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 12:46:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:46:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: <1402156232.2173.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> <1402152092.4820.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1402156232.2173.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree with you Hank, an item is worth what the market will bear. I believe it was reduced in price one more time from $45,000 to $35,000 before it was pulled (or perhaps I am dreaming?). Thanks for letting us know Alec, hopefully she'll dive again. ~ Douglas S. On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 11:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Douglas, > I agree that Lake Diver at 45K was a fair price, yet it did not sell as > far as I know. I offered 25K for Lake diver a few years back. In my mind, > an item is worth what ever the highest offer is. That Makes Lake Diver > worth at least 25K > Hank > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:41:52 AM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > Thank you for having faith, yes, I was back spacing and lost a zero. :-) > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:33:11 AM, Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Ah, a plausible scenario Alec. > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I suspect Hank just made a typo and dropped one zero, because about $25K > for a K250 and $35K for a K350 would be normal prices. Otherwise, I'll be > racing you Douglas in offering to buy all Hank's subs! > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, I like you very much and don't want to offend you here, but I must > argue your rule of $10 / foot of dive capability. That would make a K-250 > $2500 base price and K-350 $3500 base price? That doesn't seem to factor in > the labor of hull construction at all. I do understand the point that you > and Carsten are making, but I feel this is a classic example of "selling" > ourselves short. Even a humble K-boat should be treated as a specialized > vessel. > > Now Lake Diver was listed for a long time at $145,000 which in my opinion > was probably asking a bit too much, but when reduced to $45,000 I felt that > was fair. Hank, if you have any K-boats that you want off your hands for > the price of your rule, please let me know :) ~ Douglas S. > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 AM, "Carsten Standfu? " < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Scott the asking price for Peppers just as exsample is just the > material cost. > > A sub like the blue one Arg.J. Without the engine and lead - I would not > spend more than 1-2 K USD. > Fact is I would not spend even 1 USD. Its a beautiful museums item but not > more. > > A ocean going full operational Diesel Electric Psub without class like > Euronaut is something 4-5 Mill USD. > Same with class - just double the figure. > > A K boat rusty hull - or a rusty propane tank sub I would not purchase - > its cheaper to build a new hull. > > Many prices on the market are not realistic. The Seahorse was new some 25 > Years ago 5 Mill USd - and over > 20 years for sale for 1,3. Nobody want it. now it is 0,13 and still nobody > want it.. Same with some toursit sub out of class. > This large sub - not functional, clss outdated and need a general > overhauld are not more worth than just the scrapp metal price. > > The Mantis is pretty old and without class - I would puchase it - but not > for 40K as request. > Maybe 5 K is realistic. > > Vance knows the story. Many years ago I inspect the Margennaut at Ft. > Lauderdale. > Asking price was just 20K USD not bad for a 13m - 30 ts sub. > But I calculate tah trasnport, overhaul, rebuild to my requirements cos me > another 130K. > On that days I decide to build my own sub. > > A second hand sub makes only sence if it in general fullfill your > requirements list. > > vbr Carsten > > "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: > > Scott, > That is a hard question to answer, I am sure many have struggled with it. > What can you compare it too, a muscle car? You can buy beautifully > restored muscle cars for a fraction of the cost to build one. PSUB's > also, are a labour of love, a toy, no different than a boat or a car. > All you can do is look at recent sales. Lake Diver, a well proven sub did > not sell for the asking price and was for sale for a long time. I think he > was asking 45K. I have no idea what the status is on it now. A K350 sold > at auction for under 20K If I recall. I have my own formula, for a base > price, 10 dollars per foot of dive capability. I think that number is > about right, for a functioning non certified PSUB. I know some PSUB > owners are saying "I would never sell for that" but I think that is the > reality. Only the chosen few make money on a toy :-) > Hank > > > > On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:07:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a > turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 14:10:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:10:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> <1402143179.4486.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1WtGBh-2hxrAe0@fwd16.t-online.de> <1402152092.4820.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1402156232.2173.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <539355A6.1020800@psubs.org> Subs are a niche item and it's near impossible to standardize a price like a motor vehicle. It comes down to how low the seller is willing to let it go for and how high the buyer is willing to go to take possession. The one thing that seems to be universal is that the person who actually builds the submarine believes it is worth WAY more than it is. This likely due to the time and effort put into fabrication plus the emotional aspect of having proudly completed it. I'm generally at the same place Alec is...$25k for a 250 and $35k for a 350, finished and ready or near-ready to dive. Nobody took the $145k original price for Lake Diver seriously, however Maynard didn't have to sell it at the time and could afford to sit back and wait to see if a buyer someplace would show up. As finances became tighter the sub price dropped. At $45k it was still a bit high but at least a lot closer to getting a deal. I always felt that $30k cash plunked down in front of Maynard personally would have pried it from his fingertips but $35k would have definitely sealed a deal. Ultimately Harold was ready to sell somewhere between $30-$35k. My guess is that his widow was not as emotionally attached to the submarine and that Ragan got it for $25k or less. That deal was likely brokered by Harold's son. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 17:48:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 17:48:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question In-Reply-To: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> References: <9ds8hjkh7n1kgy5lvb2dbdgx.1402139108056@email.android.com> Message-ID: Scott, I can be a data point. Hope it helps. In 2012 I paid $15,000.00 for Mark Ragan's K-250. She was built in 1987 by Mark and co. She was operational to about 50 feet when I bought her. She was used for shallow water (< 50 feet) as a pilot training sub. Her max. depth was only 60 feet. She was used to look for the Hunley. I immediately tore her apart for inspection. Found significant rust issues in the bilge and ended up spending/bartering approx. $5,000 worth of repair & penetration upgrades. It came with a decent custom trailer, an extra hard hatch (with a top view port). It came with extras like CB radios, a scuba tank, extra lead weights, an O2 tank, a floating antenna. The thruster's are older Motorguide trolling motors but seem to work well. I would say to date I have invested $25,000 to make this K-250 hull capable of 250 feet. This investment also includes upgrades to the trailer. I am happy with my investment. I believe I will have a nice K-250 for approx. $32,000 when done. Steve On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 7:06 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a > turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 19:25:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 18:25:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Question Message-ID: Thanks Steve, I appriciate the data. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneSteve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I can be a data point.? Hope it helps. In 2012 I paid $15,000.00 for Mark Ragan's K-250.? She was built in 1987 by Mark and co. She was operational to about 50 feet when I bought her. She was used for shallow water (< 50 feet) as a pilot training sub.? Her max. depth was only 60 feet. She was used to look for the Hunley. I immediately tore her apart for inspection. Found significant rust issues in the bilge and ended up spending/bartering approx. $5,000 worth of? repair & penetration upgrades. It came with a decent custom trailer, an extra hard hatch (with a top view port). It came with extras like CB radios, a scuba tank,? extra lead weights, an O2 tank, a floating antenna.? The thruster's are older Motorguide trolling motors but seem to work well. I would say to date I have invested $25,000 to make this K-250 hull capable of 250 feet. This investment also includes upgrades to the trailer. I am happy with my investment. I believe I will have a nice K-250 for approx. $32,000 when done. Steve On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 7:06 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I know the price of a sub can vary greatly. I am just curious what does a turn key K-350 and K-250 sell for? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 19:26:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 16:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm Message-ID: <1402183603.41644.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive.? Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something.? Is 3700ppm good to go. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 19:39:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 17:39:22 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <1402183603.41644.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1402183603.41644.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5393A2AA.10601@telus.net> Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error. How are you measuring the CO2? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time. The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants. Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range. A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive. Today I > did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I > think the absorbent is not so good or something. Is 3700ppm good to go. > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 19:52:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 16:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <5393A2AA.10601@telus.net> References: <1402183603.41644.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5393A2AA.10601@telus.net> Message-ID: <1402185132.57481.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, have a look at Dr Phils life support paper on psubs, it quotes some limits. There is a time factor variable. ie you can have a higher level for a short time. If you come to conference brain damaged don't blame me though. The k250s were designed with no life support. Just resurface after an hour. Alan ________________________________ From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2014 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error.? How are you measuring the CO2?? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time.? The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants.? Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range.? A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive.? Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something.? Is 3700ppm good to go. >Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 20:02:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 17:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <1402185132.57481.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1402183603.41644.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5393A2AA.10601@telus.net> <1402185132.57481.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1402185737.45382.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Thanks'? I intend to do just that.? I want to have the ability to stay longer in case I get tangled. I have several other cans of absorbent onboard. Hank On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:55:21 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, have a look at Dr Phils life support paper on psubs, it quotes some limits. There is a time factor variable. ie you can have a higher level for a short time. If you come to conference brain damaged don't blame me though. The k250s were designed with no life support. Just resurface after an hour. Alan ________________________________ From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2014 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error.? How are you measuring the CO2?? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time.? The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants.? Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range.? A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive.? Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something.? Is 3700ppm good to go. >Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 20:07:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 17:07:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm Message-ID: <20140607170701.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.11be643002.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 20:18:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 17:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine In-Reply-To: <1402098367.77725.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1402098367.77725.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1402186720.14366.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott or interested parties, Got the reply below from Brent. Aloha Alan, I'm still living large in Maui. ?Would be fun to visit with you and take you out for some diving. My sub is in my shop in Portland, Oregon. ? ?It has been completely sand blasted, and is ready for weldment upgrades. ?It has some pitting in the bottom of the interior of the hull that would need to ?be cladded ?if they wanted to use it for more then 250 fsw. ?Other wise it could be a good sub once again. ?I'll sell it for $3,500. ?It includes a full set of plans, and historical data. ?The lead plates are no longer with it. The sub is only a few miles from Ray Keefer's house. (509) 833-5032 ? ?? Regards,? Brent Hartwig ________________________________ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 18:09:35 -0700 From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com Subject: K250 To: brenthartwig at hotmail.com ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Hi Scott, my latest email contact was brenthartwig at hotmail.com I can try & sound him out if you like. Some times he is hard to nail down & may be easier to contact on facebook. I believe he had sand blasted & painted the hull, but there was still a lot to do. Alan ________________________________ From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Do you have contact infor for Brent Hartwig? That sounds right down our ally! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brent Hartwig might be interested in getting rid of his K250. Last I knew it was in parts at his parents house in Preist Lake Idaho. That's only 400 kms from Bellingham. He has been in Hawaii for some time now. Alan ________________________________ From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine And I know a Mantis for sale. Also small.. and Euro 40.000,-.. ? Emile ? ________________________________ Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juni 2014 21:05 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine ? Since I have seen both Sgt. Peppers and Katy I do believe she would be a good size fit. She is petite enough : ) ? On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM, " Carsten Standfu? " wrote: Sgt.Peppers is still for sale.. vbr Carsten ? "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: So my wife Katy and I had a talk the other day and she said wants to have a bay in my shop to do her own project instead of always helping me on my projects. Haha.? I was curious if anyone knew of any old submarines for sale that she could fix up. A old K-250 or something would be cool. If that doesn't work she said she is building a go cart. Haha Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 20:26:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 18:26:22 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <5393A2AA.10601@telus.net> References: <1402183603.41644.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5393A2AA.10601@telus.net> Message-ID: <5393ADAE.2020208@telus.net> Just for reference, the level of CO2 in atmospheric air as of 2014 is about 400 ppm. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:39, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so > technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it > doesn't provide a lot of margin for error. How are you measuring the > CO2? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check > that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber > on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time. The > scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism > rate of the occupants. Under ideal conditions (low stress, low > exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of > keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range. A slow > and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is > becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by > operating close to maximum. > > Sean > > > On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive. Today >> I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm >> CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something. Is 3700ppm >> good to go. >> Hank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 20:34:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 17:34:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Old submarine Message-ID: <20140607173422.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.77ba3d3970.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 20:35:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 17:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <5393ADAE.2020208@telus.net> References: <1402183603.41644.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5393A2AA.10601@telus.net> <5393ADAE.2020208@telus.net> Message-ID: <1402187735.20500.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I just checked my shop and it is 365ppm Hank On Saturday, June 7, 2014 8:26:22 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just for reference, the level of CO2 in atmospheric air as of 2014 is about 400 ppm. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:39, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error.? How are you measuring the CO2?? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time.? The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants.? Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range.? A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive.? Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something.? Is 3700ppm good to go. >Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 20:57:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 17:57:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: <20140607175709.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9fea242ff.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 21:23:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 19:23:55 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> References: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> Message-ID: <5393BB2B.2070704@telus.net> Jim - I've booked one of the King rooms for the three nights. Sean On 2014-06-04 20:51, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > All, > I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an > excellent hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for > the nights of August 21, 22, and 23. Our headquarters hotel will be > *Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn*. We have reserved 10 rooms each with > two beds and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed. That should be > good for 30 people. The room rate is $139 + tax. In addition, each > room will receive a voucher for each day for a made-to-order breakfast > in the /The Oboe Cafe/, one of the hotel's two restaurants. August is > high season on the Washington coast, and these rooms would > normally run over $200 per night. Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per > night and is sold out. > > Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet > provided by the hotel. If you wish to tack on a day either before or > after the conference, please tell them so when you make your > reservation. There is no way to tell right now if they will have a > room available for extra days, so the sooner you can make your > reservations the better. Many of the hotels in town are already sold > out for those dates. Link below is http://www.thelakewayinn.com > . > > If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when > checking in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins. It's always > a good idea to get a confirmation number. A couple of times I would > have been up a creek if i had not done so. *_If you would please email > me when you make your reservation I can keep track of where we stand > on available rooms and can respond accordingly_*. > > The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent > email. PSUBS information and registration is at > http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ > > Jim T. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 7 21:28:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 19:28:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West CoastSession In-Reply-To: <5393BB2B.2070704@telus.net> References: <41b37.31b960c.40c1354b@aol.com> <5393BB2B.2070704@telus.net> Message-ID: <5393BC4B.1010503@telus.net> Correction: 2 nights (August 21 and 22) Sean On 2014-06-07 19:23, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jim - I've booked one of the King rooms for the three nights. > > Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 04:23:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 03:23:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Message-ID: The e-mails from Vance about the history of Perry subs is really interesting to me. Does anyone know how many K-250's and K-350's George Kitteredge made? What was the retail price on them back in the day? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 06:51:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 06:51:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53944022.6000004@psubs.org> K told me he had sold about 100 subs then decided to take his wife on a world tour with the money he had made. He negotiated the price with whomever was placing the order. Submarines just don't fit into a "retail" type selling model. The K-600 is listed as submarine #124 which indicates he numbered his vessels to include prototypes. The contract for the K-600 was $110k in 1979 which included certification. It was the first of a six vessel order but by the end of the project both Kittredge and the buyer were in no mood to continue doing business with each other and mutually agreed to part ways which left the K-600 the only one of it's kind. On 6/8/2014 4:23 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The e-mails from Vance about the history of Perry subs is really > interesting to me. Does anyone know how many K-250's and K-350's > George Kitteredge made? What was the retail price on them back in the day? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 08:21:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 07:21:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Message-ID: Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: K told me he had sold about 100 subs then decided to take his wife on a world tour with the money he had made.? He negotiated the price with whomever was placing the order.? Submarines just don't fit into a "retail" type selling model.? The K-600 is listed as submarine #124 which indicates he numbered his vessels to include prototypes.? The contract for the K-600 was $110k in 1979 which included certification.? It was the first of a six vessel order but by the end of the project both Kittredge and the buyer were in no mood to continue doing business with each other and mutually agreed to part ways which left the K-600 the only one of it's kind. On 6/8/2014 4:23 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The e-mails from Vance about the history of Perry subs is really interesting to me. Does anyone know how many K-250's and K-350's George Kitteredge made? What was the retail price on them back in the day? Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 09:15:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:15:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53946203.8060509@psubs.org> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way > he built those all himself. Very cool history though. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 09:22:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 15:22:51 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <20140607170701.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.11be643002.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: For O2 is this a nice instrument: http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/123122/Greisinger-GMH3691-and-GGO369-Oxy gen-Meter-with-Sensor?queryFromSuggest=true It has adjustable Hi /Lo alarms and is temp/ pressure compensated. For CO2 Look at beer brewery suppliers. They use portable and wall mounted analyzers where beer is stored in large tanks.. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 8 juni 2014 2:07 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm Does anyone know of a O2 and CO2 meter that you can buy off the shelf? Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sat, June 07, 2014 4:39 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error. How are you measuring the CO2? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time. The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants. Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range. A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive. Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something. Is 3700ppm good to go. Hank _____ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 09:34:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 07:34:42 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <20140607170701.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.11be643002.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20140607170701.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.11be643002.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <9d1e08d9-7eb9-4cd4-acc8-679901250164@email.android.com> http://www.analox.net/proddetail.php?productid=266&ref=19 On June 7, 2014 6:07:01 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Does anyone know of a O2 and CO2 meter that you can buy off the shelf? > > > >Thanks, > >Scott Waters > > > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm >From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > >Date: Sat, June 07, 2014 4:39 pm >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so >technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it >doesn't provide a lot of margin for error. How are you measuring the >CO2? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check >that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on >will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time. The >scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism >rate of the occupants. Under ideal conditions (low stress, low >exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of >keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range. A slow >and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming >exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating >close to maximum. > >Sean > > >On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive. Today I >did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I >think the absorbent is not so good or something. Is 3700ppm good to >go. > >Hank > > >_____________________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 09:55:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:55:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: <53946203.8060509@psubs.org> References: <53946203.8060509@psubs.org> Message-ID: <74F94C88-A02F-4C15-89C3-F184A3277B9A@AOL.com> George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. > > >> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 10:04:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 07:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: <9d1e08d9-7eb9-4cd4-acc8-679901250164@email.android.com> References: <20140607170701.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.11be643002.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <9d1e08d9-7eb9-4cd4-acc8-679901250164@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1402236277.22199.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> My CO2 measuring device is a simple air quality digital read out thing that is on a desk.? It tells me the humidity and temp and of coarse CO2ppm?.?? The meter is highly reactive, they claim accurate but who knows. Hank? On Sunday, June 8, 2014 9:35:03 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: http://www.analox.net/proddetail.php?productid=266&ref=19 On June 7, 2014 6:07:01 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anyone know of a O2 and CO2 meter?that you can buy off the shelf? > >Thanks, >Scott Waters? > >-------- Original Message -------- >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm >>From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> >>Date: Sat, June 07, 2014 4:39 pm >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> >>Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error.? How are you measuring the CO2?? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time.? The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants.? Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range.? A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. >> >>Sean >> >> >>On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wr! ote: >> >>I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive.? Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something.? Is 3700ppm good to go. >>>Hank >>> >> >> >>________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 10:21:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 10:21:36 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: <74F94C88-A02F-4C15-89C3-F184A3277B9A@AOL.com> References: <53946203.8060509@psubs.org> <74F94C88-A02F-4C15-89C3-F184A3277B9A@AOL.com> Message-ID: <476D77A3-9F5C-403C-BAD6-2AFE38D48EDC@nc.rr.com> Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. >> >> >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 10:42:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 10:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Message-ID: <86424.3b734934.40c5d041@aol.com> Good morning, Mark, If you haven't already done so, I would recommend getting inside a completed K-250 and a completed K-350 before your decide which one to build. Jim In a message dated 6/8/2014 9:22:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. >> >> >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 10:48:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 10:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: <476D77A3-9F5C-403C-BAD6-2AFE38D48EDC@nc.rr.com> References: <53946203.8060509@psubs.org> <74F94C88-A02F-4C15-89C3-F184A3277B9A@AOL.com> <476D77A3-9F5C-403C-BAD6-2AFE38D48EDC@nc.rr.com> Message-ID: <8D1513FD33ACAC5-25A8-8B64C@webmail-va001.sysops.aol.com> George's book is worth a read. He lived quite a life. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Mark via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Jun 8, 2014 10:22 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. >> >> >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 11:38:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 11:38:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: <86424.3b734934.40c5d041@aol.com> References: <86424.3b734934.40c5d041@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Thanks for the good advise. I did. I had the pleasure to spend an incredible and informative day with Alec and Scott last month in Summersville, WV. Alec took me for my first dive in Snoopy. I also met Katy, Dan and Steve McQueen. My son and I are just finishing up our first two man sub. Once completed, I plan to build by own sub, a K-250. Katy and I can compete to see who finishes first:) Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 10:42 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Good morning, Mark, > If you haven't already done so, I would recommend getting inside a completed K-250 and a completed K-350 before your decide which one to build. > Jim > > In a message dated 6/8/2014 9:22:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. > > I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? > > Regards, > > Mark Widman > Director, GDSN & Data Quality > GS1 Global, USA > mark.widman at gs1.org > 910-638-5229 > > Sent from iPhone. > > > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > > Vance > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >> > >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. > >> > >> > >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. > >>> Thanks, > >>> Scott Waters > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 11:38:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 11:38:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: <86424.3b734934.40c5d041@aol.com> References: <86424.3b734934.40c5d041@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Thanks for the good advise. I did. I had the pleasure to spend an incredible and informative day with Alec and Scott last month in Summersville, WV. Alec took me for my first dive in Snoopy. I also met Katy, Dan and Steve McQueen. My son and I are just finishing up our first two man sub. Once completed, I plan to build by own sub, a K-250. Katy and I can compete to see who finishes first:) Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 10:42 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Good morning, Mark, > If you haven't already done so, I would recommend getting inside a completed K-250 and a completed K-350 before your decide which one to build. > Jim > > In a message dated 6/8/2014 9:22:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. > > I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? > > Regards, > > Mark Widman > Director, GDSN & Data Quality > GS1 Global, USA > mark.widman at gs1.org > 910-638-5229 > > Sent from iPhone. > > > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > > Vance > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >> > >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. > >> > >> > >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. > >>> Thanks, > >>> Scott Waters > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 11:54:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 11:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Message-ID: <87a7f.67f61356.40c5e120@aol.com> Hi Mark, Is that the one with a lock-out, or is that a different Mark? We would love to see some pics. Jim In a message dated 6/8/2014 10:38:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi Jim, Thanks for the good advise. I did. I had the pleasure to spend an incredible and informative day with Alec and Scott last month in Summersville, WV. Alec took me for my first dive in Snoopy. I also met Katy, Dan and Steve McQueen. My son and I are just finishing up our first two man sub. Once completed, I plan to build by own sub, a K-250. Katy and I can compete to see who finishes first:) Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA _mark.widman at gs1.org_ (mailto:mark.widman at gs1.org) 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 8, 2014, at 10:42 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Good morning, Mark, If you haven't already done so, I would recommend getting inside a completed K-250 and a completed K-350 before your decide which one to build. Jim In a message dated 6/8/2014 9:22:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of _psubs.org_ (http://psubs.org/) ? Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA _mark.widman at gs1.org_ (mailto:mark.widman at gs1.org) 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: >> >> >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. >> >> >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 14:33:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 13:33:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Message-ID: Ok. Still very cool history.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back.? I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56.? He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed.? The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 14:42:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 13:42:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Message-ID: <129xbpygr4hmhp59gbq1agtl.1402252874526@email.android.com> Mark, Thanks for the pictures from Summersville! Very cool! Are you guys going to the psubs conference in August? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneMark via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Jim, Thanks for the good advise. ?I did. ?I had the pleasure to spend an incredible and informative day with Alec and Scott last month in Summersville, WV. Alec took me for my first dive in Snoopy. ?I also met Katy, Dan and Steve McQueen. My son and I are just finishing up our first two man sub. ?Once completed, I plan to build by own sub, a K-250. ?Katy and I can compete to see who finishes first:) Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 8, 2014, at 10:42 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good morning, Mark, If you haven't already done so, I would recommend getting inside a completed K-250 and a completed K-350 before your decide which one to build. Jim ? In a message dated 6/8/2014 9:22:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. I too will be building a K-250 from scratch.? Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist?? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back.? I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56.? He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed.? The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. >> >> >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 14:47:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 13:47:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm Message-ID: Thanks for the help on the O2 and CO2 meter guys. -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneEmile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:For O2 is this a nice instrument: http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/123122/Greisinger-GMH3691-and-GGO369-Oxygen-Meter-with-Sensor?queryFromSuggest=true ? It has adjustable Hi /Lo alarms and is temp/ pressure compensated. ? For CO2? Look at beer brewery suppliers. They use portable and wall mounted analyzers where beer is stored in large tanks.. ? Emile ? ? ? ? Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 8 juni 2014 2:07 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm ? Does anyone know of a O2 and CO2 meter?that you can buy off the shelf? ? Thanks, Scott Waters? ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sat, June 07, 2014 4:39 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error.? How are you measuring the CO2?? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time.? The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants.? Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range.? A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive. Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something.? Is 3700ppm good to go. Hank ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 15:00:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 15:00:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History In-Reply-To: <129xbpygr4hmhp59gbq1agtl.1402252874526@email.android.com> References: <129xbpygr4hmhp59gbq1agtl.1402252874526@email.android.com> Message-ID: <8FC84D8F-FFBC-4640-9FDE-DEB3FC252ACB@nc.rr.com> Hi Scott, We are planning to attend the conference but we mostly will miss the first day. David needs be back for his last course in mechanical engineering at NCSU. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 2:42 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mark, > Thanks for the pictures from Summersville! Very cool! Are you guys going to the psubs conference in August? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Jim, > > Thanks for the good advise. I did. I had the pleasure to spend an incredible and informative day with Alec and Scott last month in Summersville, WV. Alec took me for my first dive in Snoopy. I also met Katy, Dan and Steve McQueen. > > My son and I are just finishing up our first two man sub. Once completed, I plan to build by own sub, a K-250. Katy and I can compete to see who finishes first:) > > Regards, > > Mark Widman > Director, GDSN & Data Quality > GS1 Global, USA > mark.widman at gs1.org > 910-638-5229 > > Sent from iPhone. > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 10:42 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Good morning, Mark, >> If you haven't already done so, I would recommend getting inside a completed K-250 and a completed K-350 before your decide which one to build. >> Jim >> >> In a message dated 6/8/2014 9:22:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >> Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. >> >> I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark Widman >> Director, GDSN & Data Quality >> GS1 Global, USA >> mark.widman at gs1.org >> 910-638-5229 >> >> Sent from iPhone. >> >> > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. >> > Vance >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 15:19:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:19:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] History Message-ID: Very cool! See you there. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneMark via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Scott, We are planning to attend the conference but we mostly will miss the first day. ?David needs be back for his last course in mechanical engineering at NCSU. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 8, 2014, at 2:42 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Mark, Thanks for the pictures from Summersville! Very cool! Are you guys going to the psubs conference in August? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jim, Thanks for the good advise. ?I did. ?I had the pleasure to spend an incredible and informative day with Alec and Scott last month in Summersville, WV. Alec took me for my first dive in Snoopy. ?I also met Katy, Dan and Steve McQueen. My son and I are just finishing up our first two man sub. ?Once completed, I plan to build by own sub, a K-250. ?Katy and I can compete to see who finishes first:) Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 8, 2014, at 10:42 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good morning, Mark, If you haven't already done so, I would recommend getting inside a completed K-250 and a completed K-350 before your decide which one to build. Jim ? In a message dated 6/8/2014 9:22:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Interesting life story of George Kitteredge - the discovery channel should do an episode. I too will be building a K-250 from scratch. Does anyone have an rough estimate of the number of K-x50's that exist? Would most, if not all, be members of psubs.org? Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > George told me that the Japanese boat and his personal K were the last factory built boats. #45 & 46. The 100 thing was just so they could say one-oh-seven rather than number seven--it sounded grander. They thought that maybe...MAYBE...as many as 50 home builds were actually started out of the 400-odd sets of plans he eventually sold. As a side note, the Japanese sub earned George well over $400k due to vast complications with the certifying agency. And old George could well afford to mosey around the world at his leisure both before and after Kittredge Industries ever existed. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Actually Scott, I'm going to take that back. I'm going to have to check again my notes and I suspect Greg Cottrel may know off the top of head, but "sold to others" is probably more like 56. He did have a shop in Warren Maine but not sure how many people he employed. The K-600 info is accurate, I've got all the paperwork and notes from the project. >> >> >>> On 6/8/2014 8:21 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Wow! 100 subs? Dang. How many employees did he have? There is no way he built those all himself. Very cool history though. >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 8 19:07:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 19:07:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: <20140607175709.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9fea242ff.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20140607175709.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9fea242ff.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: I have also booked one of King rooms for three nights . I am really looking forward to attending this convention . Jon and Jim thank you for all your efforts putting this event together . I greatly appreciate it ! Dan Lance On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Katy and Myself are confirmed. We will also probably be bringing our dive > buddy Carl who went to Summersville Lake with us. See you all at PSUBS > Convention 2014!!!!! > Confirmation number 208374 > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast > Session > From: via Personal_Submersibles > Date: Wed, June 04, 2014 7:51 pm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > All, > I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an > excellent hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for the > nights of August 21, 22, and 23. Our headquarters hotel will be *Best > Western Plus, Lakeway Inn*. We have reserved 10 rooms each with two beds > and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed. That should be good for 30 > people. The room rate is $139 + tax. In addition, each room will receive > a voucher for each day for a made-to-order breakfast in the *The Oboe > Cafe*, one of the hotel's two restaurants. August is high season on the > Washington coast, and these rooms would normally run over $200 per night. > Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per night and is sold out. > > Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet > provided by the hotel. If you wish to tack on a day either before or after > the conference, please tell them so when you make your reservation. There > is no way to tell right now if they will have a room available for extra > days, so the sooner you can make your reservations the better. Many of the > hotels in town are already sold out for those dates. Link below is > http://www.thelakewayinn.com. > > If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when checking > in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins. It's always a good idea to > get a confirmation number. A couple of times I would have been up a creek > if i had not done so. * If you would please email me when you make your > reservation I can keep track of where we stand on available rooms and can > respond accordingly*. > > The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent > email. PSUBS information and registration is at > http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ > > Jim T. > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 9 00:43:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 00:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: <1a867.2c589c3a.40c69586@aol.com> Dan, Great to hear you're coming! The crowd is growing. Jim In a message dated 6/8/2014 6:07:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: I have also booked one of King rooms for three nights . I am really looking forward to attending this convention . Jon and Jim thank you for all your efforts putting this event together . I greatly appreciate it ! Dan Lance On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 8:57 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Katy and Myself are confirmed. We will also probably be bringing our dive buddy Carl who went to Summersville Lake with us. See you all at PSUBS Convention 2014!!!!! Confirmation number 208374 Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session From: via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Date: Wed, June 04, 2014 7:51 pm To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) All, I'm pleased to announce that we have been able to secure an excellent hotel for a great price for PSUBS Bellingham-Vancouver for the nights of August 21, 22, and 23. Our headquarters hotel will be Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn. We have reserved 10 rooms each with two beds and 5 rooms each with a single king size bed. That should be good for 30 people. The room rate is $139 + tax. In addition, each room will receive a voucher for each day for a made-to-order breakfast in the The Oboe Cafe, one of the hotel's two restaurants. August is high season on the Washington coast, and these rooms would normally run over $200 per night. Econo Lodge was quoting $142 per night and is sold out. Reservation information and instructions are on the attached sheet provided by the hotel. If you wish to tack on a day either before or after the conference, please tell them so when you make your reservation. There is no way to tell right now if they will have a room available for extra days, so the sooner you can make your reservations the better. Many of the hotels in town are already sold out for those dates. Link below is _http://www.thelakewayinn.com_ (http://www.thelakewayinn.com/) . If any questions come up as you make your reservations or when checking in, the Director of Sales is Christine Jenkins. It's always a good idea to get a confirmation number. A couple of times I would have been up a creek if i had not done so. If you would please email me when you make your reservation I can keep track of where we stand on available rooms and can respond accordingly. The remainder of the conference information will be in a subsequent email. PSUBS information and registration is at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ Jim T. ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 9 01:10:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 22:10:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: <20140608221023.4B965D0F@m0048141.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 9 05:18:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 10:18:02 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Scott, I looked into quite a few instruments. I was going to get the Analox one, but its expensive and Jon said he bought one and didnt rate it. Crowcon make some good multi meters but again, expensive. So, i bought one of these for CO2 which is really good. Only goes up to 1% mind but that should be far too much anyway. Has an alarm and various features. http://www.test-meter.co.uk/anton-carbon-iaq8494-dioxide-meter-vent-check/ For O2 i first bought the "el cheapo" kit which is "ok", but it seems really sensitive. The slightest movemnt of the dial sends the reading all over the shop. i wasnt 100% confident with it so i bought this Crowcon personal O2 monitor. Its completely idiot proof, has a high and low alarm and seems really accurate. I use this and the "el cheapo" now together. http://www.crowcon.com/uk/products/portables/crowcon-clip-single-gas.html Emile sent me a link to one he uses which looked really good as well. Cant remember which one it was, (Emile, it was the blue one)! kind regards James On 8 June 2014 19:47, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks for the help on the O2 and CO2 meter guys. > -Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > For O2 is this a nice instrument: > > > http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/123122/Greisinger-GMH3691-and-GGO369-Oxygen-Meter-with-Sensor?queryFromSuggest=true > > > > It has adjustable Hi /Lo alarms and is temp/ pressure compensated. > > > > For CO2 Look at beer brewery suppliers. They use portable and wall > mounted analyzers where beer is stored in large tanks.. > > > > Emile > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* zondag 8 juni 2014 2:07 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm > > > > Does anyone know of a O2 and CO2 meter that you can buy off the shelf? > > > > Thanks, > > Scott Waters > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > > Date: Sat, June 07, 2014 4:39 pm > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so > technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it > doesn't provide a lot of margin for error. How are you measuring the CO2? > I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an > elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the > level down to ~0 after some period of time. The scrubber needs to keep up > with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants. Under > ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the > scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the > allowable range. A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that > the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning > by operating close to maximum. > > Sean > > > On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive. Today I > did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I > think the absorbent is not so good or something. Is 3700ppm good to go. > > Hank > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 9 06:45:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 05:45:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm Message-ID: <18osbycxgn8cfk23a3x9okv1.1402310679733@email.android.com> James, That is soooo helpful. I started with the el chepo and had the same experience of it being really sensative. Again thank you very much! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJames Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Scott, ? I looked into quite a few instruments.? I was going to get the Analox one, but its expensive and Jon said he bought one and didnt rate it.? Crowcon make some good multi meters but again, expensive.? So, i bought one of these for CO2 which is really good.? Only goes up to 1% mind but that should be far too much anyway.? Has an alarm and various features. ? http://www.test-meter.co.uk/anton-carbon-iaq8494-dioxide-meter-vent-check/ ? For O2 i first bought the "el cheapo" kit which is "ok", but it seems really sensitive.? The slightest movemnt of the dial sends the reading all over the shop.? i wasnt 100% confident with it so i bought this Crowcon personal O2 monitor.? Its completely idiot proof, has a high and low alarm and seems really accurate.? I use this and the "el cheapo" now together. ? http://www.crowcon.com/uk/products/portables/crowcon-clip-single-gas.html Emile sent me a link to one he uses which looked really good as well.? Cant remember which one it was, (Emile, it was the blue one)! ? kind regards James On 8 June 2014 19:47, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the help on the O2 and CO2 meter guys. -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: For O2 is this a nice instrument: http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/123122/Greisinger-GMH3691-and-GGO369-Oxygen-Meter-with-Sensor?queryFromSuggest=true ? It has adjustable Hi /Lo alarms and is temp/ pressure compensated. ? For CO2? Look at beer brewery suppliers. They use portable and wall mounted analyzers where beer is stored in large tanks.. ? Emile ? ? ? ? Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 8 juni 2014 2:07 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm ? Does anyone know of a O2 and CO2 meter?that you can buy off the shelf? ? Thanks, Scott Waters? ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 ppm From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Sat, June 07, 2014 4:39 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Hank, 0.5% by volume is your maximum allowable, which is 5000 ppm, so technically that reading is okay; however if that is steady state, it doesn't provide a lot of margin for error.? How are you measuring the CO2?? I would check the calibration of the transducer, and also check that in an elevated CO2 environment (unmanned), turning the scrubber on will bring the level down to ~0 after some period of time.? The scrubber needs to keep up with the worst-case breathing / metabolism rate of the occupants.? Under ideal conditions (low stress, low exertion, fresh scrubber media), the scrubber should be capable of keeping the CO2 level at the low end of the allowable range.? A slow and steady climb in level is your indication that the media is becoming exhausted - you don't want to lose that early warning by operating close to maximum. Sean On 2014-06-07 17:26, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am heading to Slocan Lake tomorrow for work and a sub dive.? Today I did another life support test and the best I can do is 3700 ppm CO2, I think the absorbent is not so good or something. Is 3700ppm good to go. Hank ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 9 11:08:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 08:08:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Pics Message-ID: <20140609080824.4B9649F9@m0005311.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 10 02:23:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Pics In-Reply-To: <20140609080824.4B9649F9@m0005311.ppops.net> References: <20140609080824.4B9649F9@m0005311.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1402381396.80109.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Brian, that's great seeing it take shape. Alan ________________________________ From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 3:08 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Pics Hi Everybody, ???????????????????????????? Have some pics of my latest efforts.? Still do not have the conning tower installed.? I'm basically just getting everything into position so I can secure the pressure hull to the ballast hull.? Still have more structural welds to do, the long cylinder is only tacked on and I may have to cut it off once the other structural members are on, then reattach it for real later. ? ? link?to photos on Psubs site:? http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/matingthehulls/ ? ? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 10 05:52:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 02:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K250 for sale Message-ID: <1402393938.25671.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, where are you at with Brent's K250. Have you written it off as an option? If so, what have you found out about it? In case anyone else is interested. I bet Hank would pay that money, just to have it in his submarine museum. Alan My sub is in my shop in Portland, Oregon. ? ?It has been completely sand blasted, and is ready for weldment upgrades. ?It has some pitting in the bottom of the interior of the hull that would need to ?be cladded ?if they wanted to use it for more then 250 fsw. ?Other wise it could be a good sub once again. ?I'll sell it for $3,500. ?It includes a full set of plans, and historical data. ?The lead plates are no longer with it. The sub is only a few miles from Ray Keefer's house. (509) 833-5032 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 10 20:54:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:54:38 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 Message-ID: Hey guys, Update where Katy and I are with Brent's K-250. It is a good price for a good hull and he thinks the hull is still fine, but he told me the previous owner had left it outside and it had water sittimg in the bilges for some time and it rusted. I am sure the hull is compromised by that info, unless you want to play Russian Roullette with your life. I am going to personally inspect the hull to see if the elipticals and con is salvageable. If so my plan would be to cut the elipticals off and the con off and reuse them in a newly rolled hull. Basically all the plumbing, motors, veiwports etc are missing or compromised. So Katy and I can calculate the cost of this project, I have a few questions: *What is the cost of a ASME 516 grade 70 hull rolled for a K-250 (ball park estimate) *What is the cost of a acrylic dome and veiwport for a k-250 (ball park estimate) I have the rest of the figures for the other material. Katy decides if this all works out she is painting the sub lime green. Haha. For those of you who know her, pretty fitting right? Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 10 22:13:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402452781.32220.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Scott, how about trying to contact Ray Keefer, seeing he's a couple of miles away. He is a psubber who was involved with the group before I started blogging. Others may be able to comment on his ability to access the subs condition. >>>she is painting the sub lime green. ...That would be sublime Alan ________________________________ From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 12:54 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 Hey guys, Update where Katy and I are with Brent's K-250. It is a good price for a good hull and he thinks the hull is still fine, but he told me the previous owner had left it outside and it had water sittimg in the bilges for some time and it rusted. I am sure the hull is compromised by that info, unless you want to play Russian Roullette with your life. I am going to personally inspect the hull to see if the elipticals and con is salvageable. If so my plan would be to cut the elipticals off and the con off and reuse them in a newly rolled hull. Basically all the plumbing, motors, veiwports etc are missing or compromised. So Katy and I can calculate the cost of this project, I have a few questions: *What is the cost of a ASME 516 grade 70 hull rolled for a K-250 (ball park estimate) *What is the cost of a acrylic dome and veiwport for a k-250 (ball park estimate) I have the rest of the figures for the other material. Katy decides if this all works out she is painting the sub lime green. Haha. For those of you who know her, pretty fitting right? Haha Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 04:42:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:42:48 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics Message-ID: Hi All, Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i can do. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k Web: http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 05:23:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:23:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks James, I enjoyed that. Congratulations again. That has got to be the best submarine build log ever. I liked the comment "it's done" on your home page. Bit of an under statement. I look forward to your next video. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/06/2014, at 8:42 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i can do. > > Video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k > > Web: > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm > > Kind Regards > James > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 05:30:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 02:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402479019.38320.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi James, Great first launch, love the crane.? It sure has turned out great, congratulations. Hank On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:24:12 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks James, I enjoyed that. Congratulations again. That has got to be the best submarine build log ever. I liked the comment "it's done" on your home page. ?Bit of an under statement. I look forward to your next video. Alan Sent from my iPad On 11/06/2014, at 8:42 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, > >Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago.? The underwater camera lense got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank.? Its such a shame because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible.? Nothing i can do.?? > >Video: > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k > >Web: > >http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm? > >Kind Regards >James _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 05:52:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 04:52:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics Message-ID: Congrats James! Great to see another K-350 active in the water!? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJames Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi All, ? Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago.? The underwater camera lense got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank.? Its such a shame because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible.? Nothing i can do.?? ? Video: ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k ? Web: ? http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm? ? Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 06:28:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 05:28:19 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water leak alarm Message-ID: <6dwjcvi1beov8pi7eb53a8bp.1402482351159@email.android.com> Hey guys, I have been setting up a new store and saw we carry something new that is kinda cool. It is a water leak alarm. This would be really cool to have in battery pods or the bilge of a submarine and it is only $15. It is available at True Value stores or truevalue.com Item number 176377. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 07:31:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 07:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water leak alarm Message-ID: Scott, I don't find anything under that item #. I did find this under item #795039 http://www.truevalue.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=49206 -Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:28:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hey guys, I have been setting up a new store and saw we carry something new that is kinda cool. It is a water leak alarm. This would be really cool to have in battery pods or the bilge of a submarine and it is only $15. It is available at True Value stores or truevalue.com Item number 176377. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 07:49:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:49:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thanks for posting the video and sharing what must have been an exciting dive and it was a nice viz for the Channel! regards Antoine On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congrats James! > Great to see another K-350 active in the water! > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi All, > > Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense > got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame > because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i > can do. > > Video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k > > Web: > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm > > Kind Regards > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 07:54:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 07:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics Message-ID: James, Thanks for that; very interesting. Why was the diver rolling the sub? My compliments to the crane operator. That guy has a deft touch. Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 3:43:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi All, Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i can do. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k Web: http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm Kind Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 08:29:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 07:29:31 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water leak alarm Message-ID: <12ww59hm1xec2mk437e2tdwg.1402489652443@email.android.com> I guess it is so new to true value that it hasn't been put online yet. This one has a wire with a sensor on the end so you could put it down in the battery pod and the alarm would be in the main cab. Your local True Value will be able to get it for you. If not I can mail it out if someone wants one. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I don't find anything under that item #.? I did find this under item #795039 http://www.truevalue.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=49206 -Jim ? In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:28:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hey guys, I have been setting up a new store and saw we carry something new that is kinda cool. It is a water leak alarm. This would be really cool to have in battery pods or the bilge of a submarine and it is only $15. It is available at True Value stores or truevalue.com Item number 176377. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 08:33:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:33:27 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, I asked the diver to try and pull the sub over as much as he could. I wanted to see how far over it could be tipped, and to see how much air spilled from the main tanks. Anticipating not being able to control bouyancy on the first dive, I'd asked the crane driver to not let me go down too far. His interpretation of that seemed to be that all the way to the bottom was "not too far"!!. On 11 June 2014 12:54, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > Thanks for that; very interesting. Why was the diver rolling the sub? My > compliments to the crane operator. That guy has a deft touch. > Jim > > In a message dated 6/11/2014 3:43:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Hi All, > > Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense > got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame > because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i > can do. > > Video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k > > Web: > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm > > Kind Regards > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 08:43:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:43:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's one beautiful boat and I really like the enhancements you've made. It will be interesting to see video sometime looking through that bow viewport compared to the normal one. I think your forward visibility is probably considerably improved. Thanks, Alec On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:42 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense > got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame > because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i > can do. > > Video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k > > Web: > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm > > Kind Regards > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 09:23:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:23:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Alec & all. I'll take some video from inside next time. The good thing with the dome is that you can stick our head right into it and look all around, which really gives a good viewpoint. Even right up into the inside of the tank to check for an air bubble. On 11 June 2014 13:43, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That's one beautiful boat and I really like the enhancements you've made. > It will be interesting to see video sometime looking through that bow > viewport compared to the normal one. I think your forward visibility is > probably considerably improved. > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:42 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense >> got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame >> because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i >> can do. >> >> Video: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k >> >> Web: >> >> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm >> >> Kind Regards >> James >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 10:12:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:12:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 10:30:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:30:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics References: Message-ID: <00a901cf8581$bbb63670$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> GREAT JOB James!!!!!!!!! You did a great job on your build. I like the variations you did from the original. Venting the soft tanks is always a problem with the K- sub design. It's looks great! Congrats!!!!!!!!!!! Dan Hryhorcoff ----- Original Message ----- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 4:42 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics Hi All, Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i can do. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k Web: http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm Kind Regards James ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 10:42:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:42:08 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: <00a901cf8581$bbb63670$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> References: <00a901cf8581$bbb63670$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> Message-ID: Thanks Dan. Your boat is always the benchmark for K350's. I studied every pic of your build millions of times as i was building mine. I reckon i know your boat almost as well as you! Regards James On 11 June 2014 15:30, Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > GREAT JOB James!!!!!!!!! > > You did a great job on your build. I like the variations you did from the > original. > Venting the soft tanks is always a problem with the K- sub design. > > It's looks great! Congrats!!!!!!!!!!! > > Dan Hryhorcoff > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 4:42 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics > > Hi All, > > Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense > got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame > because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i > can do. > > Video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k > > Web: > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm > > Kind Regards > James > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 11:39:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim Todd via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:39:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ED3A625-933C-4F43-AC2D-C3E29C527AAA@aol.com> Great report, James. Everything is engineering, but I think buoyancy has more art to it than does any other aspect of a sub except for the beautiful lines on your vessel. Looking good! Jim T. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 11, 2014, at 9:12 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: > > I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. > > At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. > > Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. > > I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. > > Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. > > I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. > > I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. > > I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. > > I think that was it. > Regards > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 14:59:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:59:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: <1402452781.32220.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1402452781.32220.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good one Alan! On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Scott, > how about trying to contact Ray Keefer, seeing he's a couple of miles away. > He is a psubber who was involved with the group before I started blogging. > Others may be able to comment on his ability to access the subs condition. > >>>she is painting the sub lime green. > ...That would be sublime > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 12:54 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 > > Hey guys, > Update where Katy and I are with Brent's K-250. It is a good price for a > good hull and he thinks the hull is still fine, but he told me the previous > owner had left it outside and it had water sittimg in the bilges for some > time and it rusted. I am sure the hull is compromised by that info, unless > you want to play Russian Roullette with your life. I am going to personally > inspect the hull to see if the elipticals and con is salvageable. If so my > plan would be to cut the elipticals off and the con off and reuse them in a > newly rolled hull. Basically all the plumbing, motors, veiwports etc are > missing or compromised. So Katy and I can calculate the cost of this > project, I have a few questions: > > *What is the cost of a ASME 516 grade 70 hull rolled for a K-250 (ball > park estimate) > > *What is the cost of a acrylic dome and veiwport for a k-250 (ball park > estimate) > > I have the rest of the figures for the other material. > Katy decides if this all works out she is painting the sub lime green. > Haha. For those of you who know her, pretty fitting right? Haha > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 16:45:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:45:42 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congrats James!, Well build, good pilot.. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 11 juni 2014 10:43 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie B Video and Pics Hi All, Video and pics of my dive a week or so ago. The underwater camera lense got covered in a film of lanolin from the variable tank. Its such a shame because the visibility was really good, but it looks terrible. Nothing i can do. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QufPhMbiM2k Web: http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Operations_files/Page1553.htm Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 18:44:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 17:44:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJames Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi All, ? A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: ? I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? ? At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. ? Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? ? I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? ? Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? ? I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? ? I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. ? I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. ? I think that was it. Regards James ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 21:53:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 22:09:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:09:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy References: Message-ID: <001401cf85e3$5dff5a40$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems. My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 22:30:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D153FD5FF15510-3358-19EA8@webmail-d287.sysops.aol.com> One inch!!! No less. Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Wed, Jun 11, 2014 9:54 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 22:31:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: <001401cf85e3$5dff5a40$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> References: <001401cf85e3$5dff5a40$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> Message-ID: <8D153FD7BCAA296-3358-19EB3@webmail-d287.sysops.aol.com> Agreed. Big valves on the tanks. Good plan. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 11, 2014 10:12 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems. My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 22:36:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:36:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E2BADAA-BBF4-4A99-A8C4-A336A46E5281@gmail.com> I too found the original to be way too slow. The thing is, it's not just the valves but the diameter of the tubing as well. Snoopy originally has 1/4" valves and 3/8" tubing. I increased them both to 1/2". The result was better but still a bit too slow for my taste. Close enough, however, that I've left them that way. But when I added the saddle tanks, I put 1" hose and a 1" valve on those. I think they're sized just right, but bear in mind both saddle tanks vent through a single valve. If I were re-sizing a K boat with just the fore and aft tanks and a valve for each, I'd go with 3/4". I think there's arguments to be made for both fast and slow diving, and that the captain opted for slow as a safety feature. If someone inadvertently opens the valves on the surface and you're using 1" valves, in a few seconds you could find yourself underwater with the hatch open. This could happen, for instance, if a passenger's clothing snagged a valve as they were getting in or out. For that reason, although my next sub will have big valves for quicker diving, the valve handles will be wheels. Best, Alec > On Jun 11, 2014, at 9:53 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, > > A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? > > Thanks, > Jim > > In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > James, > I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > > A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: > > I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. > > At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. > > Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. > > I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. > > Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. > > I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. > > I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. > > I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. > > I think that was it. > Regards > James > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 11 22:37:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:37:18 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote:If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? ? Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? ? My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, ? A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? ? Thanks, Jim? ? In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ? A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: ? I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? ? At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. ? Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? ? I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? ? Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? ? I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? ? I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. ? I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. ? I think that was it. Regards James ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 05:08:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:08:33 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Personally, the reason for going to 3/4 inch is that the valves are 3/4 inch. So thats the maximum i can go without changing the valve as well. But, i think Alec makes a really good point on the safety aspect as well. It would be very easy to catch the valve handle by accident. So maybe 3/4 is a good compromise. Still, im not going to change that until the winter, want to get some diving in now. Regards James On 12 June 2014 03:37, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Dan, > I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to > open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the > plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I > would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. > > Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping > that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade > mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going > to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve > all the problems. > > My thought, Dan H. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, > > A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the > 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are > your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? > > Thanks, > Jim > > In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > James, > I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. > Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi All, > > A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with > bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: > > I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me > just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. > > At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large > lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I > could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself > right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could > escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead > i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire > situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. > > Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad > because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little > further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get > under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This > got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, > i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to > stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and > before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle > bump. > > I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the > variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to > rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight > forward. > > Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to > be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right > out. > > I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the > venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the > divers assistance. > > I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors > to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not > working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way > up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. > > I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket > from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It > takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. > > I think that was it. > Regards > James > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 08:51:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 05:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402577495.82599.YahooMailNeo@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I agree with you Dan and will not be using the designed venting when refurbishing the K-600. On Thursday, June 12, 2014 5:14 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Personally, the reason for going to 3/4 inch is that the valves are 3/4 inch.? So thats the maximum i can go without changing the valve as well.? ? But, i think Alec makes a really good point on the safety aspect as well.? It would be very easy to catch the valve handle by accident.? So maybe 3/4 is a good compromise.? Still, im not going to change that until the winter, want to get some diving in now. ? Regards James On 12 June 2014 03:37, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dan, >I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > >"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > >If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? >? >Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? >? >My thought, Dan H. >----- Original Message ----- >>From: via Personal_Submersibles >>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy >> >> >>Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, >>? >>A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? >>? >>Thanks, >>Jim? >>? >>In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >>James, >>>I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" >>>Thanks, >>>Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Hi All, >>>? >>>A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: >>>? >>>I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? >>>? >>>At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. >>>? >>>Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? >>>? >>>I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? >>>? >>>Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? >>>? >>>I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? >>>? >>>I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. >>>? >>>I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. >>>? >>>I think that was it. >>>Regards >>>James >>>? >>>? >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 11:03:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:03:55 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy References: Message-ID: <007801cf864f$88017910$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> Scott, To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port. To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems. My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 12:11:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:11:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: <007801cf864f$88017910$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> References: <007801cf864f$88017910$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> Message-ID: I find all this trouble with water blocking curious. I've never experienced one, either with the original thin tubing nor with the current tubing. Even at extreme angles, venting just one tank, nothing blocks. I presume this is just a matter of how much the lines slope up to the valves, or maybe the K250 just has shorter lines and its easier to keep it sloping. On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Scott, > To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed > air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a > piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent > line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other > end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty > good blast of air directed at the vent port. > > To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank > blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That > seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. > It's not a great fix but it works. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > Dan, > I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to > open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the > plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I > would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. > > Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping > that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade > mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going > to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve > all the problems. > > My thought, Dan H. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, > > A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the > 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are > your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? > > Thanks, > Jim > > In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > James, > I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. > Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi All, > > A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with > bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: > > I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me > just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. > > At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large > lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I > could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself > right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could > escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead > i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire > situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. > > Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad > because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little > further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get > under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This > got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, > i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to > stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and > before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle > bump. > > I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the > variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to > rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight > forward. > > Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to > be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right > out. > > I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the > venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the > divers assistance. > > I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors > to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not > working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way > up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. > > I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket > from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It > takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. > > I think that was it. > Regards > James > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 13:10:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 13:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: <852d3.6b943d7e.40cb3921@aol.com> Alec, here's a pic of the vent system on Snoopy at Muskegon. -Jim In a message dated 6/12/2014 11:11:51 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: I find all this trouble with water blocking curious. I've never experienced one, either with the original thin tubing nor with the current tubing. Even at extreme angles, venting just one tank, nothing blocks. I presume this is just a matter of how much the lines slope up to the valves, or maybe the K250 just has shorter lines and its easier to keep it sloping. On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port. To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: _swaters via Personal_Submersibles_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) To: _Personal Submersibles General Discussion_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SnoopyVent.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15908 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 14:16:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:16:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy References: <007801cf864f$88017910$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> Message-ID: <002801cf866a$7a4b14f0$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> Alec, It's the length of line and the slope. The aft tank is the bigger problem. I'm sure a larger diameter tube would be better also. All it takes is one lower part with water in it to stop the air flow. The shorter length of tubing on a K-250 would be less likely to block. Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy I find all this trouble with water blocking curious. I've never experienced one, either with the original thin tubing nor with the current tubing. Even at extreme angles, venting just one tank, nothing blocks. I presume this is just a matter of how much the lines slope up to the valves, or maybe the K250 just has shorter lines and its easier to keep it sloping. On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port. To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems. My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 16:42:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 08:42:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <539a10bf.430e450a.307b.1c11@mx.google.com> Congrats James, That is a lovely looking boat. Very impressed. Kind regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2014 2:12 a.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9928 (20140611) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 19:58:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: <007801cf864f$88017910$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> References: <007801cf864f$88017910$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2> Message-ID: <1402617538.95535.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain? or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to?force the water up & out,? but is enough to hold it in position. Alan ________________________________ From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott,? To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs.? (on the open end under the MBTs)? Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it.???I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port.? ? To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents.? That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly.? ?It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- >From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > >Dan, >I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > >If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? >? >Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? >? >My thought, Dan H. >----- Original Message ----- >>From: via Personal_Submersibles >>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy >> >>Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, >>? >>A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? >>? >>Thanks, >>Jim? >>? >>In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >>James, >>>I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" >>>Thanks, >>>Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Hi All, >>>? >>>A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: >>>? >>>I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? >>>? >>>At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. >>>? >>>Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? >>>? >>>I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? >>>? >>>Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? >>>? >>>I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? >>>? >>>I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. >>>? >>>I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. >>>? >>>I think that was it. >>>Regards >>>James >>>? >>>? >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >________________________________ > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 21:41:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 20:41:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: Alan, It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain? or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to?force the water up & out,? but is enough to hold it in position. Alan From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott,? To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs.? (on the open end under the MBTs)? Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it.???I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port.? ? To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents.? That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly.? ?It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? ? Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? ? My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, ? A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? ? Thanks, Jim? ? In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ? A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: ? I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? ? At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. ? Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? ? I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? ? Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? ? I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? ? I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. ? I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. ? I think that was it. Regards James ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 21:58:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402624691.26871.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> OK thanks I see now. So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in ?the ballast vent line, just below the? ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the problem? Alan ________________________________ From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Alan, It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain? or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to?force the water up & out,? but is enough to hold it in position. Alan ________________________________ From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott,? To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs.? (on the open end under the MBTs)? Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it.???I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port.? ? To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents.? That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly.? ?It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- >From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > >Dan, >I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > >If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? >? >Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? >? >My thought, Dan H. >----- Original Message ----- >>From: via Personal_Submersibles >>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy >> >> >>Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, >>? >>A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? >>? >>Thanks, >>Jim? >>? >>In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >>James, >>>I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" >>>Thanks, >>>Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Hi All, >>>? >>>A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: >>>? >>>I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? >>>? >>>At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. >>>? >>>Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? >>>? >>>I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? >>>? >>>Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? >>>? >>>I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? >>>? >>>I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. >>>? >>>I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. >>>? >>>I think that was it. >>>Regards >>>James >>>? >>>? >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >________________________________ > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 22:25:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 22:25:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota motors In-Reply-To: <1402624691.26871.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1402624691.26871.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55C770E9-0923-4B95-8E04-9B35B23B3E4B@nc.rr.com> Folks, I 'm looking to purchase four Minn Kota motors for our 2-man sub (two 55 pound thrust motors, and two twin 80 pound thrust motors). Can anyone recommend where I could purchase these motors? I heard that psubs has a buying discount thru a marine distributor. I'm also planning to purchase the Minn Kota control boxes that go with each motor (I believe the twin 80's only use one shared control box). Would you recommend using the Minn Kota control boxes, or should I consider a third party controller? Thanks, Mark... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 12 22:15:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 21:15:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:OK thanks I see now. So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in ?the ballast vent line, just below the? ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the problem? Alan From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Alan, It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain? or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to?force the water up & out,? but is enough to hold it in position. Alan From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott,? To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs.? (on the open end under the MBTs)? Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it.???I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port.? ? To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents.? That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly.? ?It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? ? Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? ? My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, ? A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? ? Thanks, Jim? ? In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ? A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: ? I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? ? At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. ? Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? ? I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? ? Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? ? I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? ? I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. ? I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. ? I think that was it. Regards James ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 03:15:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 03:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Message-ID: Hugh, Is Grand Cayman close enough? In the western hemisphere! There was a Delta submersible (I think he said) sitting by the bay on a concrete slab there 3 years ago. This is all from memory but the main window I think was 3' in dia. and was hemispherical. There was a guy there in charge who let me climb inside and take a bunch of pictures. The window was covered but was probably way over exposed and dated I would guess. It was mothballed. I'm hoping to get to Bellingham for the convention. Haven't made it to any since Maine before George passed away. The dream is still alive. Gene Seus Manteca, Ca On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hank, Have I got a deal for you. I am wanting to quit the Comsub. Not rusty but needs a little bit of work. Windows are out of date. Last dive a year ago. New batteries. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:_personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org) ] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2014 8:19 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Wanted, One Perry submarine, preferably in North America. The rustier the better!! I will be completely finished Nekton Gamma this summer and will be in need of a major project. Hank __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9894 (20140604) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9895 (20140604) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. _http://www.eset.com_ (http://www.eset.com/) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9896 (20140605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. _http://www.eset.com_ (http://www.eset.com/) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9896 (20140605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. _http://www.eset.com_ (http://www.eset.com/) _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 04:58:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:58:31 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a plane. Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning trim. Would need another through hull though. Another winter modification maybe. Regards James On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some > times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem > with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > OK thanks I see now. > So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in the ballast vent line, just > below the > ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the > problem? > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > Alan, > It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the > line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in > the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the > air out of the MBT. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Dan / Scott, > I'm a bit puzzled by this. > There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was > facing upward & rain > or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & > the ballast > air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be > held in place > by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to force > the water up & out, > but is enough to hold it in position. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > Scott, > To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed > air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a > piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent > line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other > end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty > good blast of air directed at the vent port. > > To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank > blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That > seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. > It's not a great fix but it works. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > Dan, > I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to > open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the > plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I > would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. > > Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping > that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade > mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going > to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve > all the problems. > > My thought, Dan H. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy > > Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, > > A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the > 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are > your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? > > Thanks, > Jim > > In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > James, > I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. > Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi All, > > A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with > bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: > > I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me > just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. > > At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large > lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I > could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself > right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could > escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead > i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire > situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. > > Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad > because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little > further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get > under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This > got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, > i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to > stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and > before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle > bump. > > I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the > variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to > rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight > forward. > > Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to > be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right > out. > > I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the > venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the > divers assistance. > > I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors > to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not > working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way > up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. > > I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket > from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It > takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. > > I think that was it. > Regards > James > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 06:22:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 05:22:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Message-ID: James, I had thought about that when I started to build my K-350. What I did is designed a removeable weight tray. It is alot like a egg carton. It allows you to move weights where ever you want on the tray to trim up. It has worked great so far!? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJames Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote:One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a plane.? Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning trim.? Would need another through hull though.? Another winter modification maybe. Regards James On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK thanks I see now. So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in ?the ballast vent line, just below the? ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the problem? Alan From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Alan, It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain? or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to?force the water up & out,? but is enough to hold it in position. Alan From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott,? To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs.? (on the open end under the MBTs)? Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it.???I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port.? ? To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents.? That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly.? ?It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? ? Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? ? My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, ? A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? ? Thanks, Jim? ? In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ? A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: ? I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? ? At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank.? Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas.? I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. ? Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank.? This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back.? This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? ? I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank.? I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? ? Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? ? I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? ? I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. ? I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. ? I think that was it. Regards James ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 06:24:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 05:24:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help Message-ID: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 06:37:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 03:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402655876.10529.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, E mail?Edmonton Exchanger and they will give you a quote,? they will give you a price real quick.? I had them roll a CT for me, and I got the quote by e mail.? Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 6:26:49 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 07:03:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 06:03:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help Message-ID: Hank,? Thank you so much! I will e-mail them now.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, E mail?Edmonton Exchanger and they will give you a quote,? they will give you a price real quick.? I had them roll a CT for me, and I got the quote by e mail.? Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 6:26:49 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 07:14:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 07:14:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott, please post your quote for the rolled hull. We are also in the market for a rolled hull for a 250. Regards, Mark... Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 13, 2014, at 7:03 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > Thank you so much! I will e-mail them now. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Scott, > E mail Edmonton Exchanger and they will give you a quote, they will give you a price real quick. I had them roll a CT for me, and I got the quote by e mail. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 13, 2014 6:26:49 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hey guys, > I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 07:33:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 06:33:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help Message-ID: Will do! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneMark via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, please post your quote for the rolled hull. ?We are also in the market for a rolled hull for a 250. Regards, Mark... Sent from iPhone. On Jun 13, 2014, at 7:03 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Thank you so much! I will e-mail them now.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, E mail?Edmonton Exchanger and they will give you a quote,? they will give you a price real quick.? I had them roll a CT for me, and I got the quote by e mail.? Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 6:26:49 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 08:36:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 07:36:14 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 Message-ID: The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 correct? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 08:39:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 05:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402663177.72712.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Mark, If you guys end up ordering rolled hulls from them, make sure you spec the roundness.?Otherwise??they will roll your shell to ASME standards for pressure vessels.? That may not be within 1/8 in roundness.??This place is amazing and HUGE!? Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 7:33:38 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Will do! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, please post your quote for the rolled hull. ?We are also in the market for a rolled hull for a 250. Regards, Mark... Sent from iPhone. On Jun 13, 2014, at 7:03 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Thank you so much! I will e-mail them now.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, E mail?Edmonton Exchanger and they will give you a quote,? they will give you a price real quick.? I had them roll a CT for me, and I got the quote by e mail.? Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 6:26:49 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 08:51:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 07:51:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help Message-ID: Thanks for the advice. What is the tolerance allowed?? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, Mark, If you guys end up ordering rolled hulls from them, make sure you spec the roundness.?Otherwise??they will roll your shell to ASME standards for pressure vessels.? That may not be within 1/8 in roundness.??This place is amazing and HUGE!? Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 7:33:38 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Will do! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, please post your quote for the rolled hull. ?We are also in the market for a rolled hull for a 250. Regards, Mark... Sent from iPhone. On Jun 13, 2014, at 7:03 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? Thank you so much! I will e-mail them now.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, E mail?Edmonton Exchanger and they will give you a quote,? they will give you a price real quick.? I had them roll a CT for me, and I got the quote by e mail.? Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 6:26:49 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 09:00:07 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:00:07 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good idea scott. I made mine more or less as per the plans and i can tell that they are going to need to be re-moulded soon enough. The steel channel inside is starting to rust already. Could maybe make something similar to your tray. On 13 June 2014 11:22, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > I had thought about that when I started to build my K-350. What I did is > designed a removeable weight tray. It is alot like a egg carton. It allows > you to move weights where ever you want on the tray to trim up. It has > worked great so far! > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight > that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a > plane. Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning trim. > Would need another through hull though. Another winter modification maybe. > Regards > James > > On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some >> times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem >> with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> OK thanks I see now. >> So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in the ballast vent line, >> just below the >> ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the >> problem? >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy >> >> Alan, >> It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the >> line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in >> the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the >> air out of the MBT. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Dan / Scott, >> I'm a bit puzzled by this. >> There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was >> facing upward & rain >> or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & >> the ballast >> air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would >> be held in place >> by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough >> to force the water up & out, >> but is enough to hold it in position. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles > > >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy >> >> Scott, >> To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that >> feed air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a >> piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent >> line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other >> end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty >> good blast of air directed at the vent port. >> >> To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank >> blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That >> seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. >> It's not a great fix but it works. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy >> >> Dan, >> I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to >> open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" >> wrote: >> If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the >> plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I >> would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. >> >> Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping >> that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade >> mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going >> to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve >> all the problems. >> >> My thought, Dan H. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* via Personal_Submersibles >> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy >> >> Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, >> >> A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as >> the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What >> are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? >> >> Thanks, >> Jim >> >> In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >> >> James, >> I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. >> Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with >> bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: >> >> I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me >> just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. >> >> At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a >> large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey >> seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished >> myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it >> could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all >> the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the >> entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. >> >> Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad >> because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little >> further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get >> under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This >> got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, >> i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to >> stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and >> before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle >> bump. >> >> I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the >> variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to >> rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight >> forward. >> >> Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to >> be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right >> out. >> >> I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the >> venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the >> divers assistance. >> >> I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors >> to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not >> working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way >> up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. >> >> I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air >> pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too >> small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter >> modification. >> >> I think that was it. >> Regards >> James >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 09:15:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:15:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s or 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most A36 is imported today and of questionable quality . On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 correct? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 09:26:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trim weight Message-ID: <655a.48dbb678.40cc560b@aol.com> James and Scott, I had planned to have the weight tray inside the hull with a screw drive such as on a garage door opener driven by an electric motor in order to adjust the trim. I think Cliff has something similar on the R300. However I've almost abandoned the movable tray idea in favor of something more like Scott's egg carton. Once the initial test dives establish the proper trim, there shouldn't be a lot of need to reposition the weight unless I add equipment. I have tandem seating so [Human+Lead] in each seat should remain constant no matter the weight of the pilot or passenger. In the K-350 where they could swap positions while underway, there might be more need to move the trim weights. When you change passengers and/or pilots you might have to add or subtract weights, so it's more convenient to have the tray inside the hull. Cheers, Jim In a message dated 6/13/2014 3:59:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a plane. Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning trim. Would need another through hull though. Another winter modification maybe. Regards James On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: OK thanks I see now. So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in the ballast vent line, just below the ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the problem? Alan ____________________________________ From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Alan, It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to force the water up & out, but is enough to hold it in position. Alan ____________________________________ From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port. To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: _swaters via Personal_Submersibles_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) To: _Personal Submersibles General Discussion_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems. My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: _via Personal_Submersibles_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 08:43:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 07:43:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help In-Reply-To: <1402655876.10529.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1402655876.10529.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C7DD6C0-036D-41F6-8432-3CCFED1343B5@AOL.com> 36 inch OD Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 13, 2014, at 5:37 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Scott, > E mail Edmonton Exchanger and they will give you a quote, they will give you a price real quick. I had them roll a CT for me, and I got the quote by e mail. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 13, 2014 6:26:49 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hey guys, > I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 10:09:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:09:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trim weight Message-ID: Jim, I have my passengers go from back to front and honestly it doesn't make a huge difference. The egg carton idea is awesome if you make major changes to equipment or passengers. For example if I am going to put another person in. I have had 3 people in the sub and it is tight, but do able. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:James and Scott, ? I had planned to have the weight tray inside the hull with a screw drive such as on a garage door opener driven by an electric motor in order to adjust the trim.? I think Cliff has something similar on the R300. ? However I've?almost abandoned the movable tray idea?in favor of something more like Scott's?egg carton.??Once the initial test dives establish the proper trim, there shouldn't be a lot of need to reposition the weight unless I add equipment.? I have tandem seating so?[Human+Lead] in each?seat should remain constant no matter the?weight of the pilot?or passenger.? In the K-350 where they could swap positions while underway, there might be more need to move the trim weights.???When you change passengers and/or pilots you might have to add or subtract weights, so it's more convenient to have the tray inside the hull. ? Cheers, Jim ? In a message dated 6/13/2014 3:59:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a plane.? Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning trim.? Would need another through hull though.? Another winter modification maybe. Regards James On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK thanks I see now. So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in ?the ballast vent line, just below the? ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the problem? Alan From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Alan, It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain? or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to?force the water up & out,? but is enough to hold it in position. Alan From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott,? To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs.? (on the open end under the MBTs)? Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it.???I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port.? ? To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents.? That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly.? ?It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: If I were to do mine over again,?I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans.?Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT.? ? Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.? A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains?controlled by?linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems.? ? My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance,?and all, ? A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.? A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your?thoughts/comments on?3/4", 1"?or any other size vent vs another? ? Thanks, Jim? ? In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ? A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.? Which was as follows: ? I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control.? ? At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the?front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.? It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.? Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. ? Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.? I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.? Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone.? Depth was 6m (20ft).? I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump.? ? I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise.? Flooded it again and started to sink.? Really quite straight forward.? ? Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface.? Filling the mains then brought me right out.? ? I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance.? ? I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. ? I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.? It takes forever to vent the main tanks.? Thats one for a winter modification. ? I think that was it. Regards James ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 11:07:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trim weight Message-ID: <407db.68995c4f.40cc6dc1@aol.com> Scott, The biggest hassle seems to be when you go from diving with a 230 lb passenger to diving solo. I hope to come up with a method of shipping/unshipping lead as conveniently as possible in such circumstances. The formula for three people in a K-350 is the sum of their ages cannot exceed 120. Jim In a message dated 6/13/2014 9:09:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Jim, I have my passengers go from back to front and honestly it doesn't make a huge difference. The egg carton idea is awesome if you make major changes to equipment or passengers. For example if I am going to put another person in. I have had 3 people in the sub and it is tight, but do able. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James and Scott, I had planned to have the weight tray inside the hull with a screw drive such as on a garage door opener driven by an electric motor in order to adjust the trim. I think Cliff has something similar on the R300. However I've almost abandoned the movable tray idea in favor of something more like Scott's egg carton. Once the initial test dives establish the proper trim, there shouldn't be a lot of need to reposition the weight unless I add equipment. I have tandem seating so [Human+Lead] in each seat should remain constant no matter the weight of the pilot or passenger. In the K-350 where they could swap positions while underway, there might be more need to move the trim weights. When you change passengers and/or pilots you might have to add or subtract weights, so it's more convenient to have the tray inside the hull. Cheers, Jim In a message dated 6/13/2014 3:59:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a plane. Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning trim. Would need another through hull though. Another winter modification maybe. Regards James On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: OK thanks I see now. So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in the ballast vent line, just below the ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the problem? Alan ____________________________________ From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Alan, It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Dan / Scott, I'm a bit puzzled by this. There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough to force the water up & out, but is enough to hold it in position. Alan ____________________________________ From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs. (on the open end under the MBTs) Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it. I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port. To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents. That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. It's not a great fix but it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: _swaters via Personal_Submersibles_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) To: _Personal Submersibles General Discussion_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Dan, I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting. A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems. My thought, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: _via Personal_Submersibles_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy Scott, Alec, Vance, and all, A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent. A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another? Thanks, Jim In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) writes: James, I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4" Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi All, A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive. Which was as follows: I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent. It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse. Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced. Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough. I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under. Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a stone. Depth was 6m (20ft). I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise. Flooded it again and started to sink. Really quite straight forward. Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i seemed to be just awash with the surface. Filling the mains then brought me right out. I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between. I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small. It takes forever to vent the main tanks. Thats one for a winter modification. I think that was it. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 11:38:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:38:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <539B1ADA.2050100@psubs.org> There are numerous fabrication facilities almost in your "backyard", the midwest. Just google tank heads and you'll find companies that also roll steel. Specify you need material that meets ABS/ASME PVHO specs. They will ask if you want x-ray or other tests to prove the quality. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 11:49:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 10:49:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 Message-ID: So Edmonton declined my request for a quote. They said they would not be competitive for my location even though I did not disclose my location or said it was for a submarine. Not sure what to say to that. I will keep searching. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 12:04:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:04:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wouldn't consider using anything less then 516 gr 70 when building a pressure hull . Also make sure you ask for the paper work to go with it with the proper heat numbers stamped on all the hull sections. I would also follow up by sending a coupon from each piece to an independent lab for verification . Dan Lance On Jun 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Daniel Lance" wrote: > 36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s or > 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most A36 is > imported today and of questionable quality . > On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 >> correct? >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 12:42:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:42:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott, I've used these guys and they had good customer support. I am sure they can give you a current quote. http://www.arntzenrolling.com/index.html Steve On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 6:24 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, > I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for > a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a > rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 12:47:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402678062.82577.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Weird, they must know your general location by your e mail??? they are expensive and prefer huge jobs, but still Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 12:04:46 PM, Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wouldn't consider using anything less then? 516 gr 70 when building a pressure hull . Also make sure you ask for the paper work to go with it with the proper heat numbers stamped on all the hull sections. I would also follow up by sending a coupon from each piece to an independent lab for verification . Dan Lance On Jun 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Daniel Lance" wrote: 36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s or 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most A36 is imported today and of questionable quality . >On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > >The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 correct? >>Thanks, >>Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 12:53:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:53:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help Message-ID: Thanks Steve. I just sent them a e-mail. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneSteve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I've used these guys and they had good customer support.? I am sure they can give you a current quote.? http://www.arntzenrolling.com/index.html Steve On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 6:24 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 12:53:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:53:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 Message-ID: I guess. Who knows. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, Weird, they must know your general location by your e mail??? they are expensive and prefer huge jobs, but still Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 12:04:46 PM, Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wouldn't consider using anything less then? 516 gr 70 when building a pressure hull . Also make sure you ask for the paper work to go with it with the proper heat numbers stamped on all the hull sections. I would also follow up by sending a coupon from each piece to an independent lab for verification . Dan Lance On Jun 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Daniel Lance" wrote: 36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s or 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most A36 is imported today and of questionable quality . On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 correct? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 14:06:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:06:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Scott, I got the same comment back from them when I sent them shop drawings for my hull. Had to look elsewhere. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 9:53 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I guess. Who knows. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Scott, > Weird, they must know your general location by your e mail? they are > expensive and prefer huge jobs, but still > Hank > > > On Friday, June 13, 2014 12:04:46 PM, Daniel Lance via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I wouldn't consider using anything less then 516 gr 70 when building a > pressure hull . Also make sure you ask for the paper work to go with it > with the proper heat numbers stamped on all the hull sections. I would also > follow up by sending a coupon from each piece to an independent lab for > verification . > Dan Lance > On Jun 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Daniel Lance" wrote: > > 36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s or > 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most A36 is > imported today and of questionable quality . > On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 correct? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 14:47:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:47:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Scott, I am working here on the west coast with a company that is quoting the fabrication of the SeaQuestor pressure hull. While not a k-boat, the steel type and diameters are similar. I should have a complete quote for fabrication and welding and welding certs, early next week, in both A516-70 and 2205 duplex (corrosion resistant, no painting required), and an epoxied finished A516-70 version. Only draw back is that fabrication would not be complete until October based upon their work load, and if the price is right for me. I asked them about the ASME spec and as they build pressure vessels, their roundness spec requires better than ASME to get these parts to nest, so I am told we can achieve the tolerance. Oh, and they do know that it is a submarine pressure hull that they are building!! Stand by.... Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 9:53 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Steve. I just sent them a e-mail. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Scott, I've used these guys and they had good customer support. I am sure > they can give you a current quote. > > http://www.arntzenrolling.com/index.html > > Steve > > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 6:24 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hey guys, >> I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull >> for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a >> rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 15:18:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:18:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 help Message-ID: Cool. Look forward to hearing about it. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneDavid Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Scott, I am working here on the west coast with a company that is quoting the fabrication of the SeaQuestor pressure hull. While not a k-boat, the steel type and diameters are similar. I should have a complete quote for fabrication and welding and welding certs, early next week, in both A516-70 and 2205 duplex (corrosion resistant, no painting required), and an epoxied finished A516-70 version. Only draw back is that fabrication would not be complete until October based upon their work load, and if the price is right for me. I asked them about the ASME spec and as they build pressure vessels, their roundness spec requires better than ASME to get these parts to nest, so I am told we can achieve the tolerance.? Oh, and they do know that it is a submarine pressure hull that they are building!!? Stand by.... Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 9:53 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Steve. I just sent them a e-mail. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, I've used these guys and they had good customer support.? I am sure they can give you a current quote.? http://www.arntzenrolling.com/index.html Steve On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 6:24 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out what it would cost to roll a new hull for a K-250 if I already had the elipticals. Can anyone help me out with a rough ball park figure for a rolles hull and support ribs? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 21:46:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 18:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Katy's new sub Message-ID: <1402710403.22010.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some parts.? Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and have a hull rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together working around the Perry front end. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 23:04:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:04:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Katy's new sub Message-ID: The K-250 is for my wife to build. She wanted something that wasn't really hard to build. I am wanting to build a sub that dives to 3,300' and holds 3 people with an large veiwport and manipulator. Problem I am currently having is locating HY-80 steel. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some parts.? Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and have a hull rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together working around the Perry front end. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 23:56:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 23:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY-80 steel Message-ID: <55deb.691c5788.40cd21db@aol.com> Scott, try these: http://www.diversifiedmetals.com/stocked-alloys/high-strength-alloys/high-st rength-alloys-80 http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/hy80.asp http://www.aasteel.com/hy-80-100.html http://www.cliftonsteel.com/tensalloy-extra-hy-80.html You might have trouble getting them to talk with you in the quantity you would want. Not many guys are looking for little bit of a titanium alloy. Jim In a message dated 6/13/2014 10:05:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: The K-250 is for my wife to build. She wanted something that wasn't really hard to build. I am wanting to build a sub that dives to 3,300' and holds 3 people with an large veiwport and manipulator. Problem I am currently h aving is locating HY-80 steel. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some parts. Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and have a hull rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together working around the Perry front end. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 13 23:56:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 23:56:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Katy's new sub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott, I investigated building with HY-80 many years ago. I found that all you could readily get was plate. If I wanted something as simple as a pipe, I could not get it in HY-80. Nobody carried stock of anything in HY-80 so every last hull component would have become a custom job and driven up the cost tremendously. A similar thing happened to me when I went looking for a 31" hemispherical endcap. It turned out 31" was a non-standard diameter for hemisphericals, but stock (if rare) for ellipticals, so the response I got was this... "If you want a 31" elliptical that's $300, but if you want it hemispherical that costs the same $300 plus $4000 in setup time". It gives you some idea how much less expensive it is if you manage to stay within the boundaries of things considered "standard". I hate to burst your HY-80 bubble, but that at any rate was the situation at the time. I have an ancient book from the boilermaking trade, that lists all the standard sizes for things like pipe and heads along with their properties. Its called the "Pressure Vessel Handbook" and is really useful for finding out what's "standard". Best, Alec On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 11:04 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The K-250 is for my wife to build. She wanted something that wasn't really > hard to build. I am wanting to build a sub that dives to 3,300' and holds 3 > people with an large veiwport and manipulator. Problem I am currently > having is locating HY-80 steel. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Scott, > Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some parts. > Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and have a hull > rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together working around > the Perry front end. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 00:36:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:36:34 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: <1402678062.82577.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1402678062.82577.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <702e5703-dbea-4dbf-a05f-0f5d8639cd2c@email.android.com> The EE machines are probably wasted on a 250 hull. They have one of the most capable facilities around, and refinery parts are likely much more lucrative than hobby subs. I wonder if timing is an issue? You might luck out resubmitting when they happen to have a slow period (wait for the price of oil to drop), but then the transport costs probably make the case for getting anything made closer to you if possible. I can't imagine that shipping something like that is cheap. Sean On June 13, 2014 10:47:42 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Scott, >Weird, they must know your general location by your e mail??? they are >expensive and prefer huge jobs, but still >Hank > > >On Friday, June 13, 2014 12:04:46 PM, Daniel Lance via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >I wouldn't consider using anything less then? 516 gr 70 when building a >pressure hull . Also make sure you ask for the paper work to go with it >with the proper heat numbers stamped on all the hull sections. I would >also follow up by sending a coupon from each piece to an independent >lab for verification . >Dan Lance >On Jun 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Daniel Lance" wrote: > >36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s >or 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most >A36 is imported today and of questionable quality . >>On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: >> >>The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 >correct? >>>Thanks, >>>Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 00:54:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:54:01 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 In-Reply-To: <702e5703-dbea-4dbf-a05f-0f5d8639cd2c@email.android.com> References: <1402678062.82577.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <702e5703-dbea-4dbf-a05f-0f5d8639cd2c@email.android.com> Message-ID: <539bd55b.25b3440a.6cf3.1b9c@mx.google.com> Carsten and Emile are using some steel out of Europe that is better than 516 / 70 I believe is is getting up close to HY80. Try asking them. Shipping might be a bit more costly. However They are pretty good at finding the right deals and could even get the shell done for you over there. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 14 June 2014 4:37 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 The EE machines are probably wasted on a 250 hull. They have one of the most capable facilities around, and refinery parts are likely much more lucrative than hobby subs. I wonder if timing is an issue? You might luck out resubmitting when they happen to have a slow period (wait for the price of oil to drop), but then the transport costs probably make the case for getting anything made closer to you if possible. I can't imagine that shipping something like that is cheap. Sean On June 13, 2014 10:47:42 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Weird, they must know your general location by your e mail? they are expensive and prefer huge jobs, but still Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 12:04:46 PM, Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wouldn't consider using anything less then 516 gr 70 when building a pressure hull . Also make sure you ask for the paper work to go with it with the proper heat numbers stamped on all the hull sections. I would also follow up by sending a coupon from each piece to an independent lab for verification . Dan Lance On Jun 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Daniel Lance" wrote: 36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s or 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most A36 is imported today and of questionable quality . On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 correct? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9943 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 00:54:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 23:54:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Katy's new sub Message-ID: Alec, I will just keep looking and see if I can find anything. If anyone has any leads with a way to make a sub that goes deep, let me know. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I investigated building with HY-80 many years ago. I found that all you could readily get was plate. If I wanted something as simple as a pipe, I could not get it in HY-80. Nobody carried stock of anything in HY-80 so every last hull component would have become a custom job and driven up the cost tremendously. ?A similar thing happened to me when I went looking for a 31" hemispherical endcap. It turned out 31" was a non-standard diameter for hemisphericals, but stock (if rare) for ellipticals, so the response I got was this... "If you want a 31" elliptical that's $300, but if you want it hemispherical that costs the same $300 plus $4000 in setup time". It gives you some idea how much less expensive it is if you manage to stay within the boundaries of things considered "standard". I hate to burst your HY-80 bubble, but that at any rate was the situation at the time. I have an ancient book from the boilermaking trade, that lists all the standard sizes for things like pipe and heads along with their properties. Its called the "Pressure Vessel Handbook" and is really useful for finding out what's "standard".? Best, Alec On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 11:04 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The K-250 is for my wife to build. She wanted something that wasn't really hard to build. I am wanting to build a sub that dives to 3,300' and holds 3 people with an large veiwport and manipulator. Problem I am currently having is locating HY-80 steel. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some parts.? Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and have a hull rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together working around the Perry front end. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 01:01:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 00:01:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep sub Message-ID: So if I can't find any HY-80, what is the next viable option? Make a sub that dives to 2,000 feet out of 516 gr 70? With a cylindrical design? What are Nyutco's submarines made from? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 01:19:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 01:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep sub Message-ID: Scott, DW is 516-70 and I think the others are as well. I sent you that info off list this morning along with some other stuff. In a message dated 6/14/2014 12:02:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: So if I can't find any HY-80, what is the next viable option? Make a sub that dives to 2,000 feet out of 516 gr 70? With a cylindrical design? What are Nyutco's submarines made from? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 01:21:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 00:21:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 Message-ID: That's a idea! Thanks Hugh! -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneHugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Carsten and Emile are using some steel out of Europe that is better than 516 / 70 ?I believe is is getting up close to HY80.? Try asking them. Shipping might be a bit more costly.? However They are pretty good at finding the right deals and could even get the shell done for you over there. Hugh ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 14 June 2014 4:37 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 ? The EE machines are probably wasted on a 250 hull.? They have one of the most capable facilities around, and refinery parts are likely much more lucrative than hobby subs.? I wonder if timing is an issue? You might luck out resubmitting when they happen to have a slow period (wait for the price of oil to drop), but then the transport costs probably make the case for getting anything made closer to you if possible.? I can't imagine that shipping something like that is cheap. Sean ? On June 13, 2014 10:47:42 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Weird, they must know your general location by your e mail??? they are expensive and prefer huge jobs, but still Hank ? On Friday, June 13, 2014 12:04:46 PM, Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? I wouldn't consider using anything less then? 516 gr 70 when building a pressure hull . Also make sure you ask for the paper work to go with it with the proper heat numbers stamped on all the hull sections. I would also follow up by sending a coupon from each piece to an independent lab for verification . Dan Lance On Jun 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Daniel Lance" wrote: 36 " in diameter . The original K250 plans specified A36 . In the 1960s or 1970s that was acceptable when steel was domestically produced. Most A36 is imported today and of questionable quality . On Jun 13, 2014 8:37 AM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: The K-250 hull is 4 foot long and 30" OD out of 1/4" ASME 516 gr70 correct? Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9943 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9943 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 01:29:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 00:29:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Deep sub Message-ID: <2uoxdnone6vxdiss1nkl6c6c.1402723768088@email.android.com> Ok. Thanks.? -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, DW is 516-70 and I think the others are as well.? I sent you?that info off list this morning along with some other stuff. ? In a message dated 6/14/2014 12:02:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: So if I can't find any HY-80, what is the next viable option? Make a sub that dives to 2,000 feet out of 516 gr 70? With a cylindrical design? What are Nyutco's submarines made from? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 06:19:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 03:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY-80 steel In-Reply-To: <55deb.691c5788.40cd21db@aol.com> References: <55deb.691c5788.40cd21db@aol.com> Message-ID: <1402741181.97065.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Understood, building from the old K 250 may be easier.? As for your deep sub, Edmonton exchanger can produce very thick sphere's? from 516-70.? I asked them how thick one time.? They replied 5 inches thick, I almost peed my pants,lol.??? You could get someone from out west that talks engineer talk to request a quote. Didn't Sean calculate that you will need 2.25 in thick or something like that.? That would be no problem for EE, and they will weld it up for you, including the CT base. Hank On Friday, June 13, 2014 11:56:33 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, try these: http://www.diversifiedmetals.com/stocked-alloys/high-strength-alloys/high-strength-alloys-80 http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/hy80.asp http://www.aasteel.com/hy-80-100.html http://www.cliftonsteel.com/tensalloy-extra-hy-80.html You might have trouble getting them to talk with you in the quantity you would want.? Not many guys are looking for little bit of a titanium alloy. Jim In a message dated 6/13/2014 10:05:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: The K-250 is for my wife to build. She wanted something that wasn't really hard to build. I am wanting to build a sub that dives to 3,300' and holds 3 people with an large veiwport and manipulator. Problem I am currently having is locating HY-80 steel. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Scott, >Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some parts.? Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and have a hull rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together working around the Perry front end. >Hank > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 09:23:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:23:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY-80 steel In-Reply-To: <1402741181.97065.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <55deb.691c5788.40cd21db@aol.com> <1402741181.97065.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011efa5f-1c07-42e7-be49-96f5919b78d6@email.android.com> EE can actually do heads up to 8 inches thick, but on small sub hulls you run into the problem of thinning, requiring a lot of extraneous material to maintain minimum thickness all over, and this extra weight affects the payload capacity. The only ways around this are pressing and welding segments, as Phil does with the DW hulls, or turning the whole piece down to true thickness. Sean On June 14, 2014 4:19:41 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Scott, >Understood, building from the old K 250 may be easier.? As for your >deep sub, Edmonton exchanger can produce very thick sphere's? from >516-70.? I asked them how thick one time.? They replied 5 inches thick, >I almost peed my pants,lol.??? You could get someone from out west that >talks engineer talk to request a quote. >Didn't Sean calculate that you will need 2.25 in thick or something >like that.? That would be no problem for EE, and they will weld it up >for you, including the CT base. >Hank > > >On Friday, June 13, 2014 11:56:33 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Scott, try these: >http://www.diversifiedmetals.com/stocked-alloys/high-strength-alloys/high-strength-alloys-80 > >http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/hy80.asp >http://www.aasteel.com/hy-80-100.html >http://www.cliftonsteel.com/tensalloy-extra-hy-80.html >You might have trouble getting them to talk with you in the >quantity you would want.? Not many guys are looking for little bit of a > >titanium alloy. >Jim > > >In a message dated 6/13/2014 10:05:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >The K-250 is for my wife to build. She wanted something that wasn't >really hard to build. I am wanting to build a sub that dives to 3,300' >and holds 3 people with an large veiwport and manipulator. Problem I >am currently having is locating HY-80 steel. >>Thanks, >>Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >>Scott, >>Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some >parts.? Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and >have a hull rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together > working around the Perry front end. >>Hank >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles > mailing > list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 13:41:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 13:41:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HY-80 steel In-Reply-To: <011efa5f-1c07-42e7-be49-96f5919b78d6@email.android.com> References: <55deb.691c5788.40cd21db@aol.com> <1402741181.97065.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <011efa5f-1c07-42e7-be49-96f5919b78d6@email.android.com> Message-ID: <343452FA-8A2C-4D1A-B361-39E9658E75A0@AOL.com> There is also the issue of minimum allowable radius for a given thickness. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 14, 2014, at 9:23 AM, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > > EE can actually do heads up to 8 inches thick, but on small sub hulls you run into the problem of thinning, requiring a lot of extraneous material to maintain minimum thickness all over, and this extra weight affects the payload capacity. The only ways around this are pressing and welding segments, as Phil does with the DW hulls, or turning the whole piece down to true thickness. > > Sean > > >> On June 14, 2014 4:19:41 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Scott, >> Understood, building from the old K 250 may be easier. As for your deep sub, Edmonton exchanger can produce very thick sphere's from 516-70. I asked them how thick one time. They replied 5 inches thick, I almost peed my pants,lol. You could get someone from out west that talks engineer talk to request a quote. >> Didn't Sean calculate that you will need 2.25 in thick or something like that. That would be no problem for EE, and they will weld it up for you, including the CT base. >> Hank >> >> >> On Friday, June 13, 2014 11:56:33 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Scott, try these: >> http://www.diversifiedmetals.com/stocked-alloys/high-strength-alloys/high-strength-alloys-80 >> http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/hy80.asp >> http://www.aasteel.com/hy-80-100.html >> http://www.cliftonsteel.com/tensalloy-extra-hy-80.html >> You might have trouble getting them to talk with you in the quantity you would want. Not many guys are looking for little bit of a titanium alloy. >> Jim >> >> >> In a message dated 6/13/2014 10:05:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >> The K-250 is for my wife to build. She wanted something that wasn't really hard to build. I am wanting to build a sub that dives to 3,300' and holds 3 people with an large veiwport and manipulator. Problem I am currently having is locating HY-80 steel. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Scott, >> Just a thought, instead of buying an old k250 and salvaging some parts. Consider talking to Steve, and buy his Perry 1401 front end and have a hull rolled to fit, 43in, you could put a real nice sub together working around the Perry front end. >> Hank >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 19:22:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham-Vancouver Schedule, Aug 21-24, 2014 Message-ID: BELLINGHAM-VANCOUVER SESSION SCHEDULE at Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn and Convention Center 714 Lakeway Drive, Bellingham, WA 98229. Phone 360-671-1011 http://www.thelakewayinn.com/ The hotel will provide vouchers for breakfast each morning in the hotel caf? upon check-in. PSUBS convention registration is available at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ Thursday, August 21st: Meet & Greet beginning at 4:00 in Poppe?s Pub within Lakeway Inn & Conference Center. Appetizers provided by PSUBS; attendees are responsible for their own drinks. At the Muskegon convention the Meet & Greet morphed into dinner at the same location. I expect the same at Bellingham. Friday, August 22nd: Breakfast by order at The Oboe Caf? within Lakeway Inn. Dive day. The start and stop times for dive operations are dependent on the weather. We also have a meeting room available at our hotel for tech sessions to the extent time allows. The tech sessions will fit in before and/or after dive operations and will focus on updates by sub builders and open forum Q&A. Dinner at a restaurant within walking distance of Lakeway Inn. Saturday, August 23rd: Breakfast at The Oboe Caf?. Depart no later than 8:30 a.m. for Nuytco Research, Ltd. at 216 East Esplanade, North Vancouver, BC. Our time at Nuytco is scheduled from 10:00 a.m. ? 4:00 p.m. with lunch at a pub nearby at each member?s expense. This is our mega-tech session for the conference. This is a fantastic opportunity for an up-close look at the latest technology and systems at Nuytco?s expanded facility. http://nuytco.com/ Extra event: The Vancouver Aquarium and Marine Science Center is directly on our route and about 15 minutes away when we depart Nuytco. We have the opportunity to tour it until it closes at 6:00 sharp. http://www.vanaqua.org/ Bellingham is one hour south of the Vancouver Aquarium. The group (as well as individuals) can decide to then have dinner at Whitespot Caf? in Vancouver, have dinner in Bellingham at a restaurant within walking distance of Lakeway Inn, or opt out of the visit to the Aquarium. Sunday, August 24th: Breakfast at The Oboe Cafe. Checkout time is 12:00 noon. Many will be departing at various times that morning. Some attendees are planning to stay over for an extra day. For those who are interested we can have a meeting room after breakfast for an open session and Q&A. At the Muskegon convention our original dive day got rained out, and we held the dive day on Sunday instead. A large number of attendees checked out of the hotel but delayed their departures until later in the day. Some had earlier flights and had to leave as scheduled. We have scheduled Bellingham at the driest time of the year, however we are making every effort to be ready to flex the schedule in response to weather. One thing that will not vary is the Saturday session at Nuytco. We all owe Phil a great debt of thanks and appreciation for hosting this day-long event. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 19:58:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham attached Message-ID: A few moments ago I emailed the BELLINGHAM-VANCOUVER Session, August 21-24, 2014, with the content in the body of the email. I'm sending the same thing again attached as a Word document. I Suggest you print one or the other for present reference and to bring with you. You may email me Off List anytime at _jimtoddpsub at aol.com_ (ma ilto:jimtoddpsub at aol.com) . Home/office 573-693-2484 Cell or text 214-564-8199 I turn the ringer and sound off on the cell when I go to bed so you can feel free to call and leave a message or text that number 24 hours per day. I'm in the Central Time Zone, US. I can make calls to Canada from my home phone at no cost. Best regards, Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BELLINGHAM-VAN Schedule.docx Type: application/octet-stream Size: 16683 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 20:43:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 17:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham attached In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402793011.8386.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Jim, great work. So far I've booked a flight from N.Z. to Hawaii on the 12th of August, & am planning? on spending a few days in Vancouver sight seeing before conference. Just working on the split of days. I will take an extra day in Bellingham. Should finalize everything in the next couple of days. Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:58 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham attached A few moments ago I emailed the BELLINGHAM-VANCOUVER Session, August 21-24, 2014, with the content in the body of the email.? I'm sending the same thing again attached as a Word document.? I Suggest you print one or the other for present reference and to bring with you. ? You may email me Off List anytime at jimtoddpsub at aol.com?. Home/office 573-693-2484 Cell or text? 214-564-8199 ? I turn the ringer and sound off on the cell when I go to bed so you can feel free to call and leave a message or text that number 24 hours per day.? I'm in the Central Time Zone, US.? I can make calls to Canada from my home phone at no cost. ? Best regards, Jim _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 14 21:37:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:37:20 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham-Vancouver Schedule, Aug 21-24, 2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I want to caution you all that while the bulk of the drive from Bellingham to North Vancouver is predictable, traffic at the US / Canada border is less so, and it might be wise to allow for some extra time sitting in the border lineup to get through. NEXUS card holders have access to an express lane. Sean On June 14, 2014 5:22:04 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >BELLINGHAM-VANCOUVER SESSION SCHEDULE >at >Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn and Convention Center >714 Lakeway Drive, Bellingham, WA 98229. Phone 360-671-1011 >http://www.thelakewayinn.com/ The hotel will provide vouchers for >breakfast each morning in the hotel caf? upon check-in. >PSUBS convention registration is available at >http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ >Thursday, August 21st: Meet & Greet beginning at 4:00 in Poppe?s Pub > >within Lakeway Inn & Conference Center. Appetizers provided by PSUBS; >attendees are responsible for their own drinks. At the Muskegon >convention the >Meet & Greet morphed into dinner at the same location. I expect the >same at >Bellingham. >Friday, August 22nd: Breakfast by order at The Oboe Caf? within >Lakeway >Inn. Dive day. The start and stop times for dive operations are >dependent >on the weather. We also have a meeting room available at our hotel >for >tech sessions to the extent time allows. The tech sessions will fit in >before >and/or after dive operations and will focus on updates by sub builders >and >open forum Q&A. Dinner at a restaurant within walking distance of >Lakeway Inn. >Saturday, August 23rd: Breakfast at The Oboe Caf?. Depart no later >than >8:30 a.m. for Nuytco Research, Ltd. at 216 East Esplanade, North >Vancouver, >BC. Our time at Nuytco is scheduled from 10:00 a.m. ? 4:00 p.m. with >lunch at a pub nearby at each member?s expense. This is our mega-tech >session >for the conference. This is a fantastic opportunity for an up-close >look >at the latest technology and systems at Nuytco?s expanded facility. >http://nuytco.com/ >Extra event: The Vancouver Aquarium and Marine Science Center is >directly on our route and about 15 minutes away when we depart Nuytco. > We have >the opportunity to tour it until it closes at 6:00 sharp. >http://www.vanaqua.org/ Bellingham is one hour south of the >Vancouver Aquarium. The group >(as well as individuals) can decide to then have dinner at Whitespot >Caf? in > Vancouver, have dinner in Bellingham at a restaurant within walking >distance of Lakeway Inn, or opt out of the visit to the Aquarium. >Sunday, August 24th: Breakfast at The Oboe Cafe. Checkout time is >12:00 >noon. Many will be departing at various times that morning. Some >attendees >are planning to stay over for an extra day. For those who are >interested >we can have a meeting room after breakfast for an open session and >Q&A. >At the Muskegon convention our original dive day got rained out, and >we >held the dive day on Sunday instead. A large number of attendees >checked >out of the hotel but delayed their departures until later in the day. >Some >had earlier flights and had to leave as scheduled. We have scheduled >Bellingham at the driest time of the year, however we are making every >effort to >be ready to flex the schedule in response to weather. One thing that >will >not vary is the Saturday session at Nuytco. We all owe Phil a great >debt >of thanks and appreciation for hosting this day-long event. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 06:48:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 03:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham-Vancouver Schedule, Aug 21-24, 2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402829299.61527.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the information Sean. A bit of local knowlege helps. Alan ________________________________ From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham-Vancouver Schedule, Aug 21-24, 2014 I want to caution you all that while the bulk of the drive from Bellingham to North Vancouver is predictable, traffic at the US / Canada border is less so, and it might be wise to allow for some extra time sitting in the border lineup to get through.? NEXUS card holders have access to an express lane. Sean On June 14, 2014 5:22:04 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: BELLINGHAM-VANCOUVER SESSION SCHEDULE >??????????????????????????????????????? at >Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn and Convention Center >714 Lakeway Drive, Bellingham, WA 98229.? Phone 360-671-1011? >http://www.thelakewayinn.com/ ??The hotel will provide vouchers for breakfast each morning in the hotel caf? upon check-in. >? >?PSUBS convention registration is available at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ >? >Thursday, August 21st:? Meet & Greet beginning at 4:00 in Poppe?s Pub within Lakeway Inn & Conference Center.? Appetizers provided by PSUBS; attendees are responsible for their own drinks.? At the Muskegon convention the Meet & Greet morphed into dinner at the same location.? I expect the same at Bellingham. >? >Friday, August 22nd:? Breakfast by order at The Oboe Caf? within Lakeway Inn.? Dive day.? The start and stop times for dive operations are dependent on the weather. ?We also have a meeting room available at our hotel for tech sessions to the extent time allows.? The tech sessions will fit in before and/or after dive operations and will focus on updates by sub builders and open forum Q&A.? ?Dinner at a restaurant within walking distance of Lakeway Inn.? >? >Saturday, August 23rd:? Breakfast at The Oboe Caf?.? Depart no later than 8:30 a.m. for Nuytco Research, Ltd. at 216 East Esplanade, North Vancouver, BC.? Our time at Nuytco is scheduled from 10:00 a.m. ? 4:00 p.m. with lunch at a pub nearby at each member?s expense.? This is our mega-tech session for the conference.? This is a fantastic opportunity for an up-close look at the latest technology and systems at Nuytco?s expanded facility.? http://nuytco.com/ >? >Extra event: ?The Vancouver Aquarium and Marine Science Center is directly on our route and about 15 minutes away when we depart Nuytco.? We have the opportunity to tour it until it closes at 6:00 sharp.? http://www.vanaqua.org/ ??Bellingham is one hour south of the Vancouver Aquarium.? The group (as well as individuals) can decide to then have dinner at Whitespot Caf? in Vancouver, have dinner in Bellingham at a restaurant within walking distance of Lakeway Inn, or opt out of the visit to the Aquarium. >? >Sunday, August 24th:? Breakfast at The Oboe Cafe.? Checkout time is 12:00 noon.? Many will be departing at various times that morning.? Some attendees are planning to stay over for an extra day. ?For those who are interested we can have a meeting room after breakfast for an open session and Q&A. >? >At the Muskegon convention our original dive day got rained out, and we held the dive day on Sunday instead.? A large number of attendees checked out of the hotel but delayed their departures until later in the day.? Some had earlier flights and had to leave as scheduled.? We have scheduled Bellingham at the driest time of the year, however we are making every effort to be ready to flex the schedule in response to weather.? One thing that will not vary is the Saturday session at Nuytco.? We all owe Phil a great debt of thanks and appreciation for hosting this day-long event. >________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 08:09:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim Todd via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 07:09:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bellingham-Vancouver Schedule, Aug 21-24, 2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B98330B-218A-406B-88C1-45A3DE1C8AF9@aol.com> Thanks, Sean. Let's move our Saturday morning departure time back to 8:00. The Oboe Cafe opens for breakfast at 6:00, so that should work easily. My Internet is down right now. Hard telling when they will have it restored. Jim T. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 14, 2014, at 8:37 PM, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > > I want to caution you all that while the bulk of the drive from Bellingham to North Vancouver is predictable, traffic at the US / Canada border is less so, and it might be wise to allow for some extra time sitting in the border lineup to get through. NEXUS card holders have access to an express lane. > > Sean > > >> On June 14, 2014 5:22:04 PM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> BELLINGHAM-VANCOUVER SESSION SCHEDULE >> at >> Best Western Plus, Lakeway Inn and Convention Center >> 714 Lakeway Drive, Bellingham, WA 98229. Phone 360-671-1011 >> http://www.thelakewayinn.com/ The hotel will provide vouchers for breakfast each morning in the hotel caf? upon check-in. >> >> >> PSUBS convention registration is available at http://psubs.org/convention/2014/ >> >> >> Thursday, August 21st: Meet & Greet beginning at 4:00 in Poppe?s Pub within Lakeway Inn & Conference Center. Appetizers provided by PSUBS; attendees are responsible for their own drinks. At the Muskegon convention the Meet & Greet morphed into dinner at the same location. I expect the same at Bellingham. >> >> >> Friday, August 22nd: Breakfast by order at The Oboe Caf? within Lakeway Inn. Dive day. The start and stop times for dive operations are dependent on the weather. We also have a meeting room available at our hotel for tech sessions to the extent time allows. The tech sessions will fit in before and/or after dive operations and will focus on updates by sub builders and open forum Q&A. Dinner at a restaurant within walking distance of Lakeway Inn. >> >> >> Saturday, August 23rd: Breakfast at The Oboe Caf?. Depart no later than 8:30 a.m. for Nuytco Research, Ltd. at 216 East Esplanade, North Vancouver, BC. Our time at Nuytco is scheduled from 10:00 a.m. ? 4:00 p.m. with lunch at a pub nearby at each member?s expense. This is our mega-tech session for the conference. This is a fantastic opportunity for an up-close look at the latest technology and systems at Nuytco?s expanded facility. http://nuytco.com/ >> >> >> Extra event: The Vancouver Aquarium and Marine Science Center is directly on our route and about 15 minutes away when we depart Nuytco. We have the opportunity to tour it until it closes at 6:00 sharp. http://www.vanaqua.org/ Bellingham is one hour south of the Vancouver Aquarium. The group (as well as individuals) can decide to then have dinner at Whitespot Caf? in Vancouver, have dinner in Bellingham at a restaurant within walking distance of Lakeway Inn, or opt out of the visit to the Aquarium. >> >> >> Sunday, August 24th: Breakfast at The Oboe Cafe. Checkout time is 12:00 noon. Many will be departing at various times that morning. Some attendees are planning to stay over for an extra day. For those who are interested we can have a meeting room after breakfast for an open session and Q&A. >> >> >> At the Muskegon convention our original dive day got rained out, and we held the dive day on Sunday instead. A large number of attendees checked out of the hotel but delayed their departures until later in the day. Some had earlier flights and had to leave as scheduled. We have scheduled Bellingham at the driest time of the year, however we are making every effort to be ready to flex the schedule in response to weather. One thing that will not vary is the Saturday session at Nuytco. We all owe Phil a great debt of thanks and appreciation for hosting this day-long event. >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 10:57:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 10:57:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: <20140607175709.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9fea242ff.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20140607175709.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9fea242ff.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <539DB465.3010701@psubs.org> PLEASE NOTE - You must register for this event online. Please go to www.psubs.org and click on the "2014 PSUBS West Coast Sessions" web link that appears there. Registration is $50 for members and $75 for non-members. Submarine Owners - If you are bringing your submarine for public display your registration fee is waived, however, make sure you notify Jim Todd or myself via email so we can still plan for the number of people attending. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 11:07:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 10:07:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: <8l2p0hwnv1vkpeysjwmafg69.1402844727224@email.android.com> Jon, I plan on brining my submarine. Even though I calculated 50 total hours of driving and $1,000 in fuel cost, I think the opertunity to dive lake Slocan for my 2nd depth test with the barge and crain is amazing. I will have myself, Katy, my buddy Carl, and maybe another now. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: PLEASE NOTE - You must register for this event online.? Please go to www.psubs.org and click on the "2014 PSUBS West Coast Sessions" web link that appears there. Registration is $50 for members and $75 for non-members. Submarine Owners - If you are bringing your submarine for public display your registration fee is waived, however, make sure you notify Jim Todd or myself via email so we can still plan for the number of people attending. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 11:35:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 11:35:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: <8l2p0hwnv1vkpeysjwmafg69.1402844727224@email.android.com> References: <8l2p0hwnv1vkpeysjwmafg69.1402844727224@email.android.com> Message-ID: <539DBD5C.1020808@psubs.org> Thanks Scott, Jim will make note of your bring the sub. Please register the other people in your party. Jon On 6/15/2014 11:07 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > I plan on brining my submarine. Even though I calculated 50 total > hours of driving and $1,000 in fuel cost, I think the opertunity to > dive lake Slocan for my 2nd depth test with the barge and crain is > amazing. > I will have myself, Katy, my buddy Carl, and maybe another now. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 11:51:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 10:51:31 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: Ok. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Scott, Jim will make note of your bring the sub.? Please register the other people in your party. Jon On 6/15/2014 11:07 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I plan on brining my submarine. Even though I calculated 50 total hours of driving and $1,000 in fuel cost, I think the opertunity to dive lake Slocan for my 2nd depth test with the barge and crain is amazing. I will have myself, Katy, my buddy Carl, and maybe another now. Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 12:06:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 09:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402848382.8149.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Are you thinking of deep testing before or after the convention?? The crane will be off the barge and a hydraulic winch will be in it's place.? The crane requires two extra tanks for stability.? It is a hassle to haul them and we don't need the crane anyways.? I scoped out a perfect spot for testing last week.? Google Silverton BC. they have a beautiful launch and it is 500 feet deep?500 feet?off shore.? The way work is going, I may be deep testing at the same time. Hank On Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51:55 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Scott, Jim will make note of your bring the sub.? Please register the other people in your party. Jon On 6/15/2014 11:07 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, >I plan on brining my submarine. Even though I calculated 50 total hours of driving and $1,000 in fuel cost, I think the opertunity to dive lake Slocan for my 2nd depth test with the barge and crain is amazing. >I will have myself, Katy, my buddy Carl, and maybe another now. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 12:20:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 11:20:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session Message-ID: That works great Hank. As far as before or after tge convention, let me get back to you on that. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, Are you thinking of deep testing before or after the convention?? The crane will be off the barge and a hydraulic winch will be in it's place.? The crane requires two extra tanks for stability.? It is a hassle to haul them and we don't need the crane anyways.? I scoped out a perfect spot for testing last week.? Google Silverton BC. they have a beautiful launch and it is 500 feet deep?500 feet?off shore.? The way work is going, I may be deep testing at the same time. Hank On Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51:55 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Scott, Jim will make note of your bring the sub.? Please register the other people in your party. Jon On 6/15/2014 11:07 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, I plan on brining my submarine. Even though I calculated 50 total hours of driving and $1,000 in fuel cost, I think the opertunity to dive lake Slocan for my 2nd depth test with the barge and crain is amazing. I will have myself, Katy, my buddy Carl, and maybe another now. Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 15 12:26:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 09:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hotel Information - Bellingham West Coast Session In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1402849585.95513.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, just let me know at hankpronk at live.ca Hank On Sunday, June 15, 2014 12:21:16 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That works great Hank. As far as before or after tge convention, let me get back to you on that. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Are you thinking of deep testing before or after the convention?? The crane will be off the barge and a hydraulic winch will be in it's place.? The crane requires two extra tanks for stability.? It is a hassle to haul them and we don't need the crane anyways.? I scoped out a perfect spot for testing last week.? Google Silverton BC. they have a beautiful launch and it is 500 feet deep?500 feet?off shore.? The way work is going, I may be deep testing at the same time. Hank On Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:51:55 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ok. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Scott, Jim will make note of your bring the sub.? Please register the other people in your party. Jon On 6/15/2014 11:07 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, >I plan on brining my submarine. Even though I calculated 50 total hours of driving and $1,000 in fuel cost, I think the opertunity to dive lake Slocan for my 2nd depth test with the barge and crain is amazing. >I will have myself, Katy, my buddy Carl, and maybe another now. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 06:49:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:49:16 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing Message-ID: Hi all, A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. Im going to make something similar this weekend. Thanks James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 09:32:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 09:32:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: James, is it this one? ? On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:49 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has > made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i > remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer > somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. > > Im going to make something similar this weekend. > Thanks > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Great White.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 315643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 09:48:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 14:48:59 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thats the one! thanks Steve. going to make something similar this weekend, just getting some ideas together, although things like this tend to get "made up as i go along"... regards James On 16 June 2014 14:32, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, is it this one? > > > ? > > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:49 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has >> made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i >> remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer >> somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. >> >> Im going to make something similar this weekend. >> Thanks >> James >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Great White.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 315643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 10:00:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 10:00:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From what I have seen, Great White appears to be its own cart with wheels attached to the substructure. Kittredge did much the same for his boat launched vehicles (from both Aquatic and the catamaran). Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 16, 2014, at 9:48 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > thats the one! thanks Steve. > > going to make something similar this weekend, just getting some ideas together, although things like this tend to get "made up as i go along"... > > regards > James > >> On 16 June 2014 14:32, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> James, is it this one? >> >> >> ? >> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:49 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. >>> >>> Im going to make something similar this weekend. >>> Thanks >>> James >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 10:04:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 10:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing Message-ID: <228f6.75ebdaf9.40d05387@aol.com> James, here's the link with some other pics. The bottom pic shows more detail of the undercarriage. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1391743294/greatwhitesubmersible/ Jim In a message dated 6/16/2014 9:00:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >From what I have seen, Great White appears to be its own cart with wheels attached to the substructure. Kittredge did much the same for his boat launched vehicles (from both Aquatic and the catamaran). Vance Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2014, at 9:48 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: thats the one! thanks Steve. going to make something similar this weekend, just getting some ideas together, although things like this tend to get "made up as i go along"... regards James On 16 June 2014 14:32, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: James, is it this one? ? On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:49 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi all, A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. Im going to make something similar this weekend. Thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 10:25:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 10:25:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5FBC545B-051A-4A35-99B7-836736C9A814@nc.rr.com> Hi James, I'd like to build something similar. Could you post pictures of your final build? I see they use a winch to pull the sub onto the trailer. How do they launch the sub? Is the trolly permanently attached to the sub? Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 16, 2014, at 9:48 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > thats the one! thanks Steve. > > going to make something similar this weekend, just getting some ideas together, although things like this tend to get "made up as i go along"... > > regards > James > >> On 16 June 2014 14:32, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> James, is it this one? >> >> >> ? >> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:49 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. >>> >>> Im going to make something similar this weekend. >>> Thanks >>> James >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 11:15:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 16:15:39 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: <228f6.75ebdaf9.40d05387@aol.com> References: <228f6.75ebdaf9.40d05387@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Guys, Yes, i can see now Great White has attached wheels by the looks of things. Im not sure if i should go for a small cart, like Hank has made, or wheels on the skids. I thought about something fabricated like a long roller blade that replaces the (in my case) wooden skids. I'll think of something. Marc, yes i will post pics. Thanks James On 16 June 2014 15:04, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, here's the link with some other pics. The bottom pic shows more > detail of the undercarriage. > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1391743294/greatwhitesubmersible/ > Jim > > In a message dated 6/16/2014 9:00:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > From what I have seen, Great White appears to be its own cart with wheels > attached to the substructure. Kittredge did much the same for his boat > launched vehicles (from both Aquatic and the catamaran). > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 16, 2014, at 9:48 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > thats the one! thanks Steve. > > going to make something similar this weekend, just getting some ideas > together, although things like this tend to get "made up as i go along"... > > regards > James > > On 16 June 2014 14:32, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, is it this one? >> >> >> ? >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:49 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has >>> made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i >>> remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer >>> somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. >>> >>> Im going to make something similar this weekend. >>> Thanks >>> James >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > = > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 11:22:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:22:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like a fun weekend. Enjoy! Steve On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:48 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > thats the one! thanks Steve. > > going to make something similar this weekend, just getting some ideas > together, although things like this tend to get "made up as i go along"... > > regards > James > > On 16 June 2014 14:32, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, is it this one? >> >> >> ? >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:49 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> A while ago there was a discussion on a launching cart. I know Hank has >>> made one for Gamma, and there is a pic of the cart on his page, but i >>> remember seeing a pic of a ramp that extended from the normal road trailer >>> somewhere. Can anyone remember where it is, i cant find it. >>> >>> Im going to make something similar this weekend. >>> Thanks >>> James >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Great White.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 315643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 11:32:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:32:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: References: <228f6.75ebdaf9.40d05387@aol.com> Message-ID: <539F0E00.5070006@psubs.org> James, The 600 has roller blade arrangement. I have not had the sub off the trailer so have not inspected them closely but they appear to be nylon. There are 13 rollers on each side. See attachment. Jon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: k600-8.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83131 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 12:14:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:14:08 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trailer\cart thing In-Reply-To: <539F0E00.5070006@psubs.org> References: <228f6.75ebdaf9.40d05387@aol.com> <539F0E00.5070006@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi Jon, Thanks for that pic. Thats pretty much what i had in mind. Trying to get something to fit within the existing skid brackets so i dont have to do any welding on the pods.. Plenty of options at this place.. http://www.castors-online.co.uk/acatalog/nylon-troley-wheels.html On 16 June 2014 16:32, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > > The 600 has roller blade arrangement. I have not had the sub off the > trailer so have not inspected them closely but they appear to be nylon. > There are 13 rollers on each side. See attachment. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 23:22:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 22:22:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 16 23:52:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:52:00 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <539fbb55.43d7440a.7990.6b30@mx.google.com> Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ?? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 00:10:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 23:10:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design help Message-ID: <57u1mpkalgphretrh1lfhofi.1402977287388@email.android.com> I was wondering since I am not a good engineer, if I come up with a concept, how could I go from concept to calculated blue prints that I can build off of? I believe I remember some people in psubs have done design work for other people for a reasonable fee. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 00:12:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 23:12:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneHugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best,? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel ? Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 07:05:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 07:05:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29D602D2-F9B6-4867-9C86-A9CD9CD4ECF1@nc.rr.com> Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Huge, > I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ?? > > The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. > > Best, Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel > > > > Hey guys, > > I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. > > The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. > > They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. > > Thanks, > > Scott Waters > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 08:35:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 07:35:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneMark via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best,? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel ? Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 09:02:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:02:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott, good news. Prices seem psub friendly here in the Midwest. I think this place is a good find as you are the third psuber to maybe use them. Steve On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 11:22 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, > I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. > The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" > long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. > They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 09:16:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 08:16:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: <8dga169garm3uopgcapei4nr.1403010972242@email.android.com> Yea. They seem really good.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneSteve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, good news.? Prices seem psub friendly here in the Midwest.? I think this place is a good find as you are the third psuber to maybe use them. Steve On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 11:22 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 09:30:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Mark via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:30:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: <8dga169garm3uopgcapei4nr.1403010972242@email.android.com> References: <8dga169garm3uopgcapei4nr.1403010972242@email.android.com> Message-ID: The quote is much cheaper than cheaper than I expected. As you know, I would like to build a K-250. Do you have a source and price for the end caps? For the k-xxx, are the end caps hemispherical? Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. > On Jun 17, 2014, at 9:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Yea. They seem really good. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Scott, good news. Prices seem psub friendly here in the Midwest. I think this place is a good find as you are the third psuber to maybe use them. > > Steve > > >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 11:22 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hey guys, >> I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. >> The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. >> They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 09:35:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tank head supplier Message-ID: <36c48.6495d078.40d19e39@aol.com> Mark, Here's a supplier with distribution in Youngstown, OH; Orange, CA; and Saginaw (North Fort Worth), TX. Both the links are to the same company. Jim http://www.cmforming.com/tankheads-and-accessories.htm http://www.cmforming.com/pdfs/hemispherical-asme-code-type.pdf In a message dated 6/17/2014 8:31:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: The quote is much cheaper than cheaper than I expected. As you know, I would like to build a K-250. Do you have a source and price for the end caps? For the k-xxx, are the end caps hemispherical? Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 9:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Yea. They seem really good. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, good news. Prices seem psub friendly here in the Midwest. I think this place is a good find as you are the third psuber to maybe use them. Steve On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 11:22 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 09:39:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tank head supplier Message-ID: <36e33.1c03a84e.40d19f11@aol.com> Attached is a spreadsheet with the specs on their in-stock tank heads. JT In a message dated 6/17/2014 8:36:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Mark, Here's a supplier with distribution in Youngstown, OH; Orange, CA; and Saginaw (North Fort Worth), TX. Both the links are to the same company. Jim http://www.cmforming.com/tankheads-and-accessories.htm http://www.cmforming.com/pdfs/hemispherical-asme-code-type.pdf In a message dated 6/17/2014 8:31:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: The quote is much cheaper than cheaper than I expected. As you know, I would like to build a K-250. Do you have a source and price for the end caps? For the k-xxx, are the end caps hemispherical? Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 9:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Yea. They seem really good. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Scott, good news. Prices seem psub friendly here in the Midwest. I think this place is a good find as you are the third psuber to maybe use them. Steve On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 11:22 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles = _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dc-stock-list.xls Type: application/octet-stream Size: 398336 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 09:48:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cylinder weight calculator Message-ID: <37379.7baf52cc.40d1a122@aol.com> Here's a calculator to determine the weight of a steel cylinder per foot. http://www.pipeindustries.com/weight-per-foot-calculator.html Jim T. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 11:01:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 10:01:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: The end caps are eliptical. I had a source for end caps. Let me see if I can dig it up. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneMark via Personal_Submersibles wrote:The quote is much cheaper than cheaper than I expected. ?As you know, I would like to build a K-250. ?Do you have a source and price for the end caps? ?For the k-xxx, are the end caps hemispherical?? Regards, Mark Widman 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 9:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yea. They seem really good.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, good news.? Prices seem psub friendly here in the Midwest.? I think this place is a good find as you are the third psuber to maybe use them. Steve On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 11:22 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 17 11:18:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 11:18:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53A05C5B.8000101@psubs.org> Just do a google search for "tank head" and you'll find numerous suppliers so you can compare pricing. Jon On 6/17/2014 11:01 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The quote is much cheaper than cheaper than I expected. As you know, > I would like to build a K-250. Do you have a source and price for the > end caps? For the k-xxx, are the end caps hemispherical? > > Regards, > > Mark Widman > 910-638-5229 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 12:39:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:39:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel References: Message-ID: <9D9DAA5F8FCF4C4C8E4079EFDD4B145C@hryhorcoff2> Scott, Please don't take this in negative way, and understand that we have never meet. I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife, or your end expectations. I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't. Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. Don't underestimate the planning and work that goes into in a sub. Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred feet of depth. Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering. You most likely won't get what you don't pay for. If you're looking for cheap engineering help the BEST you're going to get is CHEAP engineering. That may be ok with a go cart, but not with a sub. Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on. That SHOULD be good enough to put your life in. You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire. It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub. There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub. If you're going to build, don't start out hoping you're doing it safe. Either have it properly engineered or build a design that has been. That's why so many take the less expensive and safe way of building a K sub. The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time. Granted, it's engineered to older standards, but even that's far better then cheap engineering. Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ?? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 16:39:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 08:39:02 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: <9D9DAA5F8FCF4C4C8E4079EFDD4B145C@hryhorcoff2> References: <9D9DAA5F8FCF4C4C8E4079EFDD4B145C@hryhorcoff2> Message-ID: <53a1f8ec.c587440a.24e2.ffffdb03@mx.google.com> Hi Scott, Dan has said it all. I wanted something different but here is my trail. I thought I would have it done and dusted inside of 2 years. I have been designing and building pressure vessels for 30 odd years however I knew enough to know that I still had a lot to learn. I bought a full set of K350 plans to get inside the head of Kittredge. I then did about 20 different design concepts. When I finished the shell design I wanted, I got a professional Engineer with Sub experience and who teaches FEA (Predictive Engineering) to do an FEA on mine to ABS standard. Cost me over $10,000. But he found some problems which we rectified. 5 years later still not finished. I bought an old one and did it up to learn further. I also compiled a hell of a lot of info off P-Subs gurus. Anything less is not advisable. Best of luck and enjoy the ride. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 19 June 2014 4:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Scott, Please don't take this in negative way, and understand that we have never meet. I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife, or your end expectations. I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't. Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. Don't underestimate the planning and work that goes into in a sub. Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred feet of depth. Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering. You most likely won't get what you don't pay for. If you're looking for cheap engineering help the BEST you're going to get is CHEAP engineering. That may be ok with a go cart, but not with a sub. Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on. That SHOULD be good enough to put your life in. You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire. It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub. There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub. If you're going to build, don't start out hoping you're doing it safe. Either have it properly engineered or build a design that has been. That's why so many take the less expensive and safe way of building a K sub. The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time. Granted, it's engineered to older standards, but even that's far better then cheap engineering. Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ?? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9964 (20140618) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 19:09:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 18:09:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: Dan, On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote:Scott, ? Please don't take this in?negative way, and understand that we have never meet.? I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife,?or your end expectations.? I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't.? Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. ? Don't underestimate the?planning and work that goes into in a sub.? ?Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred?feet of depth.? Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering.? You most likely won't get what you don't pay for.? If you're looking for cheap engineering help the?BEST you're going to get is?CHEAP engineering.? That may be?ok with a go cart, but not with a sub.? ? Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on.? That?SHOULD be good enough to put your life in.? You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire.? ? It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub.? There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub.? If you're going to build, don't start?out hoping you're doing it safe.? Either have it properly engineered or build?a?design that has been.? That's why so many take the?less expensive?and safe way of?building a K sub.??The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time.? Granted,?it's?engineered to older standards, but even that's far?better then cheap engineering.? ? ? Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. ? Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best,? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 19:20:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D1596305EBDF84-2AC0-1446D@webmail-m274.sysops.aol.com> Scott, Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Dan, On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Scott, Please don't take this in negative way, and understand that we have never meet. I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife, or your end expectations. I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't. Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. Don't underestimate the planning and work that goes into in a sub. Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred feet of depth. Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering. You most likely won't get what you don't pay for. If you're looking for cheap engineering help the BEST you're going to get is CHEAP engineering. That may be ok with a go cart, but not with a sub. Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on. That SHOULD be good enough to put your life in. You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire. It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub. There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub. If you're going to build, don't start out hoping you're doing it safe. Either have it properly engineered or build a design that has been. That's why so many take the less expensive and safe way of building a K sub. The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time. Granted, it's engineered to older standards, but even that's far better then cheap engineering. Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ?? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 20:19:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 17:19:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: <8D1596305EBDF84-2AC0-1446D@webmail-m274.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D1596305EBDF84-2AC0-1446D@webmail-m274.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1403137190.93047.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I bought it because I can not design a sub.? I paid for the engineering and got a sub with it. Hank On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Dan, On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Scott, ? Please don't take this in?negative way, and understand that we have never meet.? I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife,?or your end expectations.? I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't.? Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. ? Don't underestimate the?planning and work that goes into in a sub.? ?Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred?feet of depth.? Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering.? You most likely won't get what you don't pay for.? If you're looking for cheap engineering help the?BEST you're going to get is?CHEAP engineering.? That may be?ok with a go cart, but not with a sub.? ? Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work.? Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on.? That?SHOULD be good enough to put your life in.? You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire.? ? It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub.? There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub.? If you're going to build, don't start?out hoping you're doing it safe.? Either have it properly engineered or build?a?design that has been.? That's why so many take the?less expensive?and safe way of?building a K sub.??The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time.? Granted,?it's?engineered to older standards, but even that's far?better then cheap engineering.? ? ? Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. ? Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- >From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel > > >For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Scott, > > >What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? > > >Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. > > >Regards, > > Mark Widman >Director, GDSN & Data Quality >GS1 Global, USA >mark.widman at gs1.org >910-638-5229 > > >Sent from iPhone. > >On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Huge, >>I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? >>Thanks, >>Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? >>The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. >>Best,? Hugh >>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles >>Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. >>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel >>Hey guys, >>I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. >>The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. >>They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. >>Thanks, >>Scott Waters >>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>http://www.eset.com/ >> >>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>http://www.eset.com/ >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >________________________________ > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 20:54:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:54:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: <1403137190.93047.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <8D1596305EBDF84-2AC0-1446D@webmail-m274.sysops.aol.com> <1403137190.93047.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm so pleased to hear that your business is booming Scott. Keep that iron hot, heavy and in the fire of America. As to your sub, I am very interested and hope you'll keep me posted. Perhaps we could work together? I am quite interested in diving deeper and feel there is a deep-diving vessel in my future as well. I am planning to go out and see what is going on at Sea-Magine one of these days. ~ Douglas S. On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 8:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Scott, > The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I bought > it because I can not design a sub. I paid for the engineering and got a > sub with it. > Hank > > > On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Scott, > Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel > > Dan, > On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I > ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is > similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill > I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and > finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers > charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am > building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have > finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the > architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first > new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in > what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe > with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending > years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do > apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of > psubbers in the past who have not been. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" > wrote: > Scott, > > Please don't take this in negative way, and understand that we have never > meet. I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife, or your end > expectations. I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good > engineer, if in fact you aren't. Maybe you're even better then you think > you are. I don't know. > > Don't underestimate the planning and work that goes into in a sub. > Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few > hundred feet of depth. Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering. You > most likely won't get what you don't pay for. If you're looking for cheap > engineering help the BEST you're going to get is CHEAP engineering. That > may be ok with a go cart, but not with a sub. > > Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your > own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a > certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting > something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on. That SHOULD > be good enough to put your life in. You still may be playing with matches, > but anything less, and your playing with fire. > > It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub. There are > plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways > to get hurt in a sub. If you're going to build, don't start out hoping > you're doing it safe. Either have it properly engineered or build a design > that has been. That's why so many take the less expensive and safe way > of building a K sub. The engineering has been properly done and it's stood > the test of time. Granted, it's engineered to older standards, but even > that's far better then cheap engineering. > > Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. > > Just my thoughts on the matter, > Dan H. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel > > For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper > to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore > that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up > she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next > project of a deep diving sub. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Scott, > > What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? Are you looking at > designing your own sub? > > Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. > > Regards, > > Mark Widman > Director, GDSN & Data Quality > GS1 Global, USA > mark.widman at gs1.org > 910-638-5229 > > Sent from iPhone. > > On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Huge, > I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that > would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I > don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ?? > The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time > with 3/8?. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. > Best, Hugh > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ > mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] *On Behalf Of *swaters via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel > Hey guys, > I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. > The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and > 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. > They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 21:11:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:11:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: <71rjse73wo1cwjnaqqav3d6c.1403138858227@email.android.com> Hank, I totally understand. That is why I built Trustworthy first. I am ready for the next challenge. That is why I am looking for someone to help me with the inital enginering work and then spend the money on a expert to look it over and stamp the plans. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I bought it because I can not design a sub.? I paid for the engineering and got a sub with it. Hank On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Dan, On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Scott, ? Please don't take this in?negative way, and understand that we have never meet.? I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife,?or your end expectations.? I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't.? Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. ? Don't underestimate the?planning and work that goes into in a sub.? ?Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred?feet of depth.? Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering.? You most likely won't get what you don't pay for.? If you're looking for cheap engineering help the?BEST you're going to get is?CHEAP engineering.? That may be?ok with a go cart, but not with a sub.? ? Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on.? That?SHOULD be good enough to put your life in.? You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire.? ? It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub.? There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub.? If you're going to build, don't start?out hoping you're doing it safe.? Either have it properly engineered or build?a?design that has been.? That's why so many take the?less expensive?and safe way of?building a K sub.??The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time.? Granted,?it's?engineered to older standards, but even that's far?better then cheap engineering.? ? ? Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. ? Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best,? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 21:12:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:12:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: Douglas, I will take all the help I can get. I have a feeling with a sub this difficult I will be asking for tons of help from alot of members. Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneDouglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote:I'm so pleased to hear that your business is booming Scott. Keep that iron hot, heavy and in the fire of America. As to your sub, I am very interested and hope you'll keep me posted. Perhaps we could work together? I am quite interested in diving deeper and feel there is a deep-diving vessel in my future as well. I am planning to go out and see what is going on at Sea-Magine one of these days. ~ Douglas S. ?? On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 8:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I bought it because I can not design a sub.? I paid for the engineering and got a sub with it. Hank On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Dan, On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Scott, ? Please don't take this in?negative way, and understand that we have never meet.? I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife,?or your end expectations.? I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't.? Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. ? Don't underestimate the?planning and work that goes into in a sub.? ?Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred?feet of depth.? Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering.? You most likely won't get what you don't pay for.? If you're looking for cheap engineering help the?BEST you're going to get is?CHEAP engineering.? That may be?ok with a go cart, but not with a sub.? ? Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work.? Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on.? That?SHOULD be good enough to put your life in.? You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire.? ? It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub.? There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub.? If you're going to build, don't start?out hoping you're doing it safe.? Either have it properly engineered or build?a?design that has been.? That's why so many take the?less expensive?and safe way of?building a K sub.??The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time.? Granted,?it's?engineered to older standards, but even that's far?better then cheap engineering.? ? ? Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. ? Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best,? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 21:17:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 18:17:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1403140626.59382.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, I am very jealous, I would do exactly what your doing if my pockets were deep enough.? I would contact Nuytco and get some advice about who to contact to help with your design.? Maybe they would?? Then just go for it. You do not need to be anything you are not already, to do this. Hank On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 9:13:00 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Douglas, I will take all the help I can get. I have a feeling with a sub this difficult I will be asking for tons of help from alot of members. Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm so pleased to hear that your business is booming Scott. Keep that iron hot, heavy and in the fire of America. As to your sub, I am very interested and hope you'll keep me posted. Perhaps we could work together? I am quite interested in diving deeper and feel there is a deep-diving vessel in my future as well. I am planning to go out and see what is going on at Sea-Magine one of these days. ~ Douglas S. ?? On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 8:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, >The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I bought it because I can not design a sub.? I paid for the engineering and got a sub with it. >Hank > > > >On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Scott, >Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. >Vance > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel > > >Dan, >On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been.? >Thanks, >Scott Waters > > > > > > > > >Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > >Scott, >? >Please don't take this in?negative way, and understand that we have never meet.? I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife,?or your end expectations.? I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't.? Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. >? >Don't underestimate the?planning and work that goes into in a sub.? ?Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred?feet of depth.? Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering.? You most likely won't get what you don't pay for.? If you're looking for cheap engineering help the?BEST you're going to get is?CHEAP engineering.? That may be?ok with a go cart, but not with a sub.? >? >Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work.? Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on.? That?SHOULD be good enough to put your life in.? You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire.? >? >It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub.? There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub.? If you're going to build, don't start?out hoping you're doing it safe.? Either have it properly engineered or build?a?design that has been.? That's why so many take the?less expensive?and safe way of?building a K sub.??The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time.? Granted,?it's?engineered to older standards, but even that's far?better then cheap engineering.? ? >? >Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. >? >Just my thoughts on the matter, >Dan H. >----- Original Message ----- >>From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel >> >> >>For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. >>Thanks, >>Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Scott, >> >> >>What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? >> >> >>Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. >> >> >>Regards, >> >> Mark Widman >>Director, GDSN & Data Quality >>GS1 Global, USA >>mark.widman at gs1.org >>910-638-5229 >> >> >>Sent from iPhone. >> >>On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Huge, >>>I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? >>>Thanks, >>>Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? >>>The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. >>>Best,? Hugh >>>From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles >>>Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. >>>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel >>>Hey guys, >>>I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. >>>The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. >>>They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. >>>Thanks, >>>Scott Waters >>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com/ >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com/ >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 22:06:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Christopher Graca via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:06:17 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott, I sent you an email off list. Not sure if you received it or if you changed your email ( sent to email with @waters-ks.com). Might be beneficial to respond to the listserv as to what specific engineering design services you are looking for (drafting, FEA, electrical, controls, mass calculations, buoyancy calculations, etc). -Chris On Jun 18, 2014 8:13 PM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Douglas, > I will take all the help I can get. I have a feeling with a sub this > difficult I will be asking for tons of help from alot of members. > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > I'm so pleased to hear that your business is booming Scott. Keep that iron > hot, heavy and in the fire of America. As to your sub, I am very interested > and hope you'll keep me posted. Perhaps we could work together? I am quite > interested in diving deeper and feel there is a deep-diving vessel in my > future as well. I am planning to go out and see what is going on at > Sea-Magine one of these days. ~ Douglas S. > > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 8:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Scott, >> The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I >> bought it because I can not design a sub. I paid for the engineering and >> got a sub with it. >> Hank >> >> >> On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Scott, >> Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel >> >> Dan, >> On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I >> ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is >> similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill >> I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and >> finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers >> charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am >> building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have >> finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the >> architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first >> new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in >> what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe >> with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending >> years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do >> apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of >> psubbers in the past who have not been. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" >> wrote: >> Scott, >> >> Please don't take this in negative way, and understand that we have never >> meet. I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife, or your end >> expectations. I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good >> engineer, if in fact you aren't. Maybe you're even better then you think >> you are. I don't know. >> >> Don't underestimate the planning and work that goes into in a sub. >> Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few >> hundred feet of depth. Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering. You >> most likely won't get what you don't pay for. If you're looking for cheap >> engineering help the BEST you're going to get is CHEAP engineering. That >> may be ok with a go cart, but not with a sub. >> >> Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your >> own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a >> certified engineer do the work. Basically it means you're getting >> something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on. That SHOULD >> be good enough to put your life in. You still may be playing with matches, >> but anything less, and your playing with fire. >> >> It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub. There are >> plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways >> to get hurt in a sub. If you're going to build, don't start out hoping >> you're doing it safe. Either have it properly engineered or build a design >> that has been. That's why so many take the less expensive and safe way >> of building a K sub. The engineering has been properly done and it's stood >> the test of time. Granted, it's engineered to older standards, but even >> that's far better then cheap engineering. >> >> Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. >> >> Just my thoughts on the matter, >> Dan H. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles >> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel >> >> For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be >> cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to >> restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes >> up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next >> project of a deep diving sub. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Scott, >> >> What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? Are you looking >> at designing your own sub? >> >> Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark Widman >> Director, GDSN & Data Quality >> GS1 Global, USA >> mark.widman at gs1.org >> 910-638-5229 >> >> Sent from iPhone. >> >> On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Huge, >> I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that >> would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I >> don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ?? >> The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time >> with 3/8?. That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. >> Best, Hugh >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ >> mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org >> ] *On Behalf Of *swaters via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. >> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel >> Hey guys, >> I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. >> The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and >> 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. >> They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 18 23:55:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:55:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: Thanks Hank!!! I don't have the money for it either, it just adds to the challenge. You can always find ways to earn more money and always find ways to learn skills you do not currently know. -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I am very jealous, I would do exactly what your doing if my pockets were deep enough.? I would contact Nuytco and get some advice about who to contact to help with your design.? Maybe they would?? Then just go for it. You do not need to be anything you are not already, to do this. Hank On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 9:13:00 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Douglas, I will take all the help I can get. I have a feeling with a sub this difficult I will be asking for tons of help from alot of members. Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm so pleased to hear that your business is booming Scott. Keep that iron hot, heavy and in the fire of America. As to your sub, I am very interested and hope you'll keep me posted. Perhaps we could work together? I am quite interested in diving deeper and feel there is a deep-diving vessel in my future as well. I am planning to go out and see what is going on at Sea-Magine one of these days. ~ Douglas S. ?? On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 8:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I bought it because I can not design a sub.? I paid for the engineering and got a sub with it. Hank On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Dan, On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Scott, ? Please don't take this in?negative way, and understand that we have never meet.? I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife,?or your end expectations.? I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't.? Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. ? Don't underestimate the?planning and work that goes into in a sub.? ?Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred?feet of depth.? Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering.? You most likely won't get what you don't pay for.? If you're looking for cheap engineering help the?BEST you're going to get is?CHEAP engineering.? That may be?ok with a go cart, but not with a sub.? ? Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work.? Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on.? That?SHOULD be good enough to put your life in.? You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire.? ? It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub.? There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub.? If you're going to build, don't start?out hoping you're doing it safe.? Either have it properly engineered or build?a?design that has been.? That's why so many take the?less expensive?and safe way of?building a K sub.??The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time.? Granted,?it's?engineered to older standards, but even that's far?better then cheap engineering.? ? ? Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. ? Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best,? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 19 00:02:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 23:02:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: I am looking for engineering for the pressure hull. Boyancy, stress calculations, and drafting is what I am looking for. Not worried about the electrical or plumbing side about it. My uncle is a doc in electrical engineering and runs the University of Nebraska and will help me and I understand plumbing pretty well. I am consulting the help of Dan Lance on welding. Still will need help eventually with acrylic. I will contact you off list as well.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneChristopher Graca via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Scott, I sent you an email off list. Not sure if you received it or if you changed your email ( sent to email with @waters-ks.com). Might be beneficial to respond to the listserv as to what specific? engineering design services you are looking for (drafting, FEA, electrical, controls, mass calculations, buoyancy calculations, etc). -Chris On Jun 18, 2014 8:13 PM, "swaters via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Douglas, I will take all the help I can get. I have a feeling with a sub this difficult I will be asking for tons of help from alot of members. Thank you, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm so pleased to hear that your business is booming Scott. Keep that iron hot, heavy and in the fire of America. As to your sub, I am very interested and hope you'll keep me posted. Perhaps we could work together? I am quite interested in diving deeper and feel there is a deep-diving vessel in my future as well. I am planning to go out and see what is going on at Sea-Magine one of these days. ~ Douglas S. ?? On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 8:19 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, The reason I bought Gamma was not because I couldn't build a sub, I bought it because I can not design a sub.? I paid for the engineering and got a sub with it. Hank On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:20:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, Nice to know someone who has friends at the bank. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 7:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Dan, On my first sub I spent about 2 years researching and learning before I ever pulled the trigger on starting a build on the K-350. My plan is similar on my next build for a deep diving sub which is to research untill I am 100% comfortable. I would like to start with a good design and finished prints and then take them to the engineer for reveiw. Enginers charge by the hour and are very expensive. I do this the same way when I am building my 40,000 square foot multi-million dollar stores where I have finished blue prints and store design done before I ever take it to the architect and my last store costs me $22,000 in architect fees. The first new store designI had done was $65,000. Hopefully that lays some insite in what I am doing. I am not going to be building something that is unsafe with unknown factors made from metal from a scrap yard and I am ok spending years researching and planning before I ever order the first part. I do apriciate you making sure I am being safe because I know there are lots of psubbers in the past who have not been.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone "Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Scott, ? Please don't take this in?negative way, and understand that we have never meet.? I don't know your skills, the skills of your wife,?or your end expectations.? I congratulate you on recognizing that you're not a good engineer, if in fact you aren't.? Maybe you're even better then you think you are. I don't know. ? Don't underestimate the?planning and work that goes into in a sub.? ?Building any sub is a big undertaking, much less one for more then a few hundred?feet of depth.? Most of all, don't look for cheap engineering.? You most likely won't get what you don't pay for.? If you're looking for cheap engineering help the?BEST you're going to get is?CHEAP engineering.? That may be?ok with a go cart, but not with a sub.? ? Unless you're confident enough in your own engineering skills to do your own design or even alter a pre-engineered design, you really should have a certified engineer do the work.? Basically it means you're getting something the engineer is willing to stake his reputation on.? That?SHOULD be good enough to put your life in.? You still may be playing with matches, but anything less, and your playing with fire.? ? It's a lot of work and thousands of man hours building a sub.? There are plenty of other places to make mistakes in a build, and plenty other ways to get hurt in a sub.? If you're going to build, don't start?out hoping you're doing it safe.? Either have it properly engineered or build?a?design that has been.? That's why so many take the?less expensive?and safe way of?building a K sub.??The engineering has been properly done and it's stood the test of time.? Granted,?it's?engineered to older standards, but even that's far?better then cheap engineering.? ? Even refurbishing a sub isn't a small task if there are structural issues. ? Just my thoughts on the matter, Dan H. ----- Original Message ----- From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel For the K-250 that I was looking at buying I believe it would be cheaper to build new rather than restore. Katy was looking for a sub to restore that wouldn't be extremely expensive. If the right oprotunity comes up she'll do it, otherwise she'll build a go cart and help me with my next project of a deep diving sub. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Mark via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, What made you change your mind on the K-250 project? ?Are you looking at designing your own sub? Thanks again for providing a quote for the rolled steel. Regards, Mark Widman Director, GDSN & Data Quality GS1 Global, USA mark.widman at gs1.org 910-638-5229 Sent from iPhone. On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:12 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Huge, I was just going off of what the blue prints said for a idea of what that would cost and several members on psubs asked for me to share the quote. I don't believe I will be doing the K-250 project anyway.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Go with 3/8? thick it doesn?t buckle as much as ??? The guys who welded my 5/16? said that it would have been half the time with 3/8?.? That is why ABS says minimum 3/8? I believe. Best,? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:22 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Hey guys, I got a quote back from Arntzen on a K-250 hull. The quote is to roll, tack seam, and reroll to round. 36"diameter and 48" long of 1/4" ASME 516 gr 70. They will do it for $575 and a 2 week lead time. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9956 (20140617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 19 09:08:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:08:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53A2E0CC.7090407@psubs.org> Scott, it sounds like you have plenty of time. I would suggest that you study ABS documents and also become very familiar with the online tools we have at PSUBS.ORG. Self-education in design is going to carry you a long way to understanding the capabilities of your vessel and give you confidence in the various designs you might want to pursue. You don't have to understand it to the point of getting an engineering degree, just enough to answer most of your own questions. Cliff is a P.E. and has "gifted" us with a tremendously valuable tool in the design spreadsheet which encapsulates ABS requirements and brings reasonable vessel design to everyone's fingertips. It just takes some tenacity to get through the material and understand it. There are numerous people on the list that can help you with any related questions. Even if you had millions of dollars in your submarine budget and could hire a staff of designers I would still make the same recommendation. It's not about money, it's about the value of knowing the "nuts and bolts" about the performance limitations of your vessel. Jon On 6/19/2014 12:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I am looking for engineering for the pressure hull. Boyancy, stress > calculations, and drafting is what I am looking for. Not worried about > the electrical or plumbing side about it. My uncle is a doc in > electrical engineering and runs the University of Nebraska and will > help me and I understand plumbing pretty well. I am consulting the > help of Dan Lance on welding. Still will need help eventually with > acrylic. I will contact you off list as well. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 19 09:11:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 08:11:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: Thanks Jon -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scott, it sounds like you have plenty of time.? I would suggest that you study ABS documents and also become very familiar with the online tools we have at PSUBS.ORG.? Self-education in design is going to carry you a long way to understanding the capabilities of your vessel and give you confidence in the various designs you might want to pursue.? You don't have to understand it to the point of getting an engineering degree, just enough to answer most of your own questions.? Cliff is a P.E. and has "gifted" us with a tremendously valuable tool in the design spreadsheet which encapsulates ABS requirements and brings reasonable vessel design to everyone's fingertips.? It just takes some tenacity to get through the material and understand it.? There are numerous people on the list that can help you with any related questions. Even if you had millions of dollars in your submarine budget and could hire a staff of designers I would still make the same recommendation.? It's not about money, it's about the value of knowing the "nuts and bolts" about the performance limitations of your vessel. Jon On 6/19/2014 12:02 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am looking for engineering for the pressure hull. Boyancy, stress calculations, and drafting is what I am looking for. Not worried about the electrical or plumbing side about it. My uncle is a doc in electrical engineering and runs the University of Nebraska and will help me and I understand plumbing pretty well. I am consulting the help of Dan Lance on welding. Still will need help eventually with acrylic. I will contact you off list as well.? Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 19 13:15:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 10:15:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rolled steel Message-ID: <20140619101502.4B91A66A@m0048141.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 19 19:28:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 01:28:29 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder Message-ID: Hey guys, We are in the process of finishing our submarine and got an idea we really don?t know if it works. Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the distance to the surface? The reason I wonder is because the log is equipped with an echo sounder and it would be cool to actually have the depth visible on the MFD. Sea trials next week! Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 19 21:16:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:16:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1403226975.91304.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Lasse, In a word, no it will not work.? :-( Good luck with the test dive! Hank On Thursday, June 19, 2014 8:16:10 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, We are in the process of finishing our submarine and got an idea we really don?t know if it works. Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the distance to the surface? The reason I wonder is because the log is equipped with an echo sounder and it would be cool to actually have the depth visible on the MFD. Sea trials next week! Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 19 21:24:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder Message-ID: <89b68.4eaaf408.40d4e75c@aol.com> Lasse, do you have a convenient picture of your sub to post? In a message dated 6/19/2014 8:16:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi Lasse, In a word, no it will not work. :-( Good luck with the test dive! Hank On Thursday, June 19, 2014 8:16:10 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, We are in the process of finishing our submarine and got an idea we really don?t know if it works. Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the distance to the surface? The reason I wonder is because the log is equipped with an echo sounder and it would be cool to actually have the depth visible on the MFD. Sea trials next week! Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 03:56:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:56:41 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: <89b68.4eaaf408.40d4e75c@aol.com> References: <89b68.4eaaf408.40d4e75c@aol.com> Message-ID: This is the Submarine Anders Ljung built about eight years ago, it has been sitting on land for the last three-four years. I purchased it this winter and is now being refurbished and overhauled with just about everything upgraded. This picture was taken before it ended up on land a few years ago. I?ll get back with more pics when we have it in the water, it is split in two peaces right now so there is not much to see for the moment. [cid:AD417262-A7A8-4ADA-B89D-3A104D430375] 20 jun 2014 kl. 03:24 skrev via Personal_Submersibles >: Lasse, do you have a convenient picture of your sub to post? In a message dated 6/19/2014 8:16:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi Lasse, In a word, no it will not work. :-( Good luck with the test dive! Hank On Thursday, June 19, 2014 8:16:10 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, We are in the process of finishing our submarine and got an idea we really don?t know if it works. Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the distance to the surface? The reason I wonder is because the log is equipped with an echo sounder and it would be cool to actually have the depth visible on the MFD. Sea trials next week! Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smallsub.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 304402 bytes Desc: smallsub.jpg URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 06:02:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 03:02:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] West Coast Session Message-ID: <1403258520.2509.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, firstly we have a new member, Tim Novak, who lives half way between Nuytco & Bellingham. He has a sports sub & is keen to meet up & possibly dive with us. I know of him, as do a few other psubbers, through another site. Secondly, I've booked flights & are in Vancouver mid day 18th. I'm planning on doing some sight seeing, so if any one wants to catch up before Bellingham, let me know. I'm also spending 2 more days after conference in Vancouver. Regards Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 07:09:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder Message-ID: Lasse, thanks for the pic. It's listed in _www.subdb.info_ (http://www.subdb.info) as http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/index.cgi?ID=1272847696&VN=Mal en&VT=1 In a message dated 6/20/2014 2:57:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: This is the Submarine Anders Ljung built about eight years ago, it has been sitting on land for the last three-four years. I purchased it this winter and is now being refurbished and overhauled with just about everything upgraded. This picture was taken before it ended up on land a few years ago. I?ll get back with more pics when we have it in the water, it is split in two peaces right now so there is not much to see for the moment. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 08:19:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 05:19:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1403266746.94254.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Lasse, Fantastic sub, I love it! Hank On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:09:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Lasse, thanks for the pic.? It's listed in http://www.subdb.info/ as http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/index.cgi?ID=1272847696&VN=Malen&VT=1 In a message dated 6/20/2014 2:57:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: This is the Submarine Anders Ljung built about eight years ago, it has been sitting on land for the last three-four years. >I purchased it this winter and is now being refurbished and overhauled with just about everything upgraded. >This picture was taken before it ended up on land a few years ago. I?ll get back with more pics when we have it in the water, it is split in two peaces right now so there is not much to see for the moment. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 10:45:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 10:45:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database In-Reply-To: <1403266746.94254.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1403266746.94254.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53A4491D.4020008@psubs.org> Modified Malen, ISDB# 1272847696 Modified Nekton Gamma, ISDB# 129868908 Modified Poisson Pilote, ISDB# 139829925 PSUBS members can access and modify their submarine information using their PSUBS username and password. Go to www.subdb.info -> Support -> Log In From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 12:13:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 20 Jun 2014 16:13 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database In-Reply-To: <53A4491D.4020008@psubs.org> References: <1403266746.94254.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53A4491D.4020008@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1Wy1S1-2zrPVo0@fwd22.t-online.de> Hi, Jon , PLEASE NOTE changes Sgt. Peppers ISDB: 1272847302 Owner Carsten Standfuss - City Rostock, Country Germany Euronaut Status : Operational - City Rostock Nemo Manufacturer: Reinhard K?ster - City Berlin Germany UC Nautilus is missing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC3_Nautilus Comet is missing http://uboot-comet.de/cms/index.php/technische-daten Nemo-2 is Missing vbr Carsten "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Modified Malen, ISDB# 1272847696 > Modified Nekton Gamma, ISDB# 129868908 > Modified Poisson Pilote, ISDB# 139829925 > > PSUBS members can access and modify their submarine information using > their PSUBS username and password. Go to www.subdb.info -> Support -> > Log In > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 14:14:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 06:14:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36FED478-BFEC-4EB4-B9B4-DD9700B8358D@yahoo.com> Hi lasse, they do use echo sounders for measuring distance to the surface. http://www.dosits.org/people/researchphysics/measureupperocean/ It will be easy to test if this works well on your echo sounder, once the sub is operational. Wow, big submarine. You will have fun overhauling it. All the best. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 20/06/2014, at 11:28 am, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey guys, > > We are in the process of finishing our submarine and got an idea we really don?t know if it works. > Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the distance to the surface? > The reason I wonder is because the log is equipped with an echo sounder and it would be cool to actually have the depth visible on the MFD. > > Sea trials next week! > > Lasse Schmidt > Upplevelsepresent.se > Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 > 11130 Stockholm > 070-28 32 660 > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 16:22:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 22:22:49 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Good luck with the trails!! I don?t see the point of a reversed echo sounder. Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 20 juni 2014 1:28 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder Hey guys, We are in the process of finishing our submarine and got an idea we really don?t know if it works. Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the distance to the surface? The reason I wonder is because the log is equipped with an echo sounder and it would be cool to actually have the depth visible on the MFD. Sea trials next week! Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 16:43:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 13:43:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1403297038.90147.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I would sure like to see more pictures, and find out more about your sub.? Hank On Friday, June 20, 2014 4:23:12 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good luck with the trails!! I don?t see the point of a reversed echo sounder. Regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 20 juni 2014 1:28 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder Hey guys, We are in the process of finishing our submarine and got an idea we really don?t know if it works. Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the distance to the surface? The reason I wonder is because the log is equipped with an echo sounder and it would be cool to actually have the depth visible on the MFD. Sea trials next week! Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 17:08:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:08:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database In-Reply-To: <1Wy1S1-2zrPVo0@fwd22.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1403298491.56054.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Anybody have any links with more about Nemo-2? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/20/14, Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 20, 2014, 9:13 AM Hi, Jon , PLEASE?NOTE changes ?Sgt. Peppers ISDB: 1272847302? ?Owner Carsten Standfuss - City Rostock, Country Germany Euronaut Status : Operational??? -? City Rostock Nemo Manufacturer:? Reinhard K?ster - City Berlin? Germany UC Nautilus is missing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC3_Nautilus Comet is missing http://uboot-comet.de/cms/index.php/technische-daten Nemo-2 is Missing vbr Carsten "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Modified Malen, ISDB# 1272847696 > Modified Nekton Gamma, ISDB# 129868908 > Modified Poisson Pilote, ISDB# 139829925 > > PSUBS members can access and modify their submarine information using > their PSUBS username and password. Go to www.subdb.info -> Support -> > Log In > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles f From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 17:13:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database Message-ID: <34d9.4cd89ea2.40d5fe03@aol.com> Pete, Are you referring to this Nemo or another one? Jim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNnAyzhRHc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfWiV05tz_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD9p5xi9a0U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt5BudWd9Xw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjBJ1vcIg3Y In a message dated 6/20/2014 4:08:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Anybody have any links with more about Nemo-2? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/20/14, Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 20, 2014, 9:13 AM Hi, Jon , PLEASE NOTE changes Sgt. Peppers ISDB: 1272847302 Owner Carsten Standfuss - City Rostock, Country Germany Euronaut Status : Operational - City Rostock Nemo Manufacturer: Reinhard K?ster - City Berlin Germany UC Nautilus is missing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC3_Nautilus Comet is missing http://uboot-comet.de/cms/index.php/technische-daten Nemo-2 is Missing vbr Carsten "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Modified Malen, ISDB# 1272847696 > Modified Nekton Gamma, ISDB# 129868908 > Modified Poisson Pilote, ISDB# 139829925 > > PSUBS members can access and modify their submarine information using > their PSUBS username and password. Go to www.subdb.info -> Support -> > Log In > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles f _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 20 18:21:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 20 Jun 2014 22:21 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database In-Reply-To: <34d9.4cd89ea2.40d5fe03@aol.com> References: <34d9.4cd89ea2.40d5fe03@aol.com> Message-ID: <1Wy7C4-17JhNA0@fwd16.t-online.de> Thats is nemo 100 an other and commercial one.. "via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Pete, Are you referring to this Nemo or another one? Jim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNnAyzhRHc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfWiV05tz_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD9p5xi9a0U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt5BudWd9Xw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjBJ1vcIg3Y In a message dated 6/20/2014 4:08:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Anybody have any links with more about Nemo-2? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/20/14, Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 20, 2014, 9:13 AM Hi, Jon , PLEASE NOTE changes Sgt. Peppers ISDB: 1272847302 Owner Carsten Standfuss - City Rostock, Country Germany Euronaut Status : Operational - City Rostock Nemo Manufacturer: Reinhard K?ster - City Berlin Germany UC Nautilus is missing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC3_Nautilus Comet is missing http://uboot-comet.de/cms/index.php/technische-daten Nemo-2 is Missing vbr Carsten "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Modified Malen, ISDB# 1272847696 > Modified Nekton Gamma, ISDB# 129868908 > Modified Poisson Pilote, ISDB# 139829925 > > PSUBS members can access and modify their submarine information using > their PSUBS username and password. Go to www.subdb.info -> Support -> > Log In > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles f _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 21 01:28:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jens Laland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 05:28:18 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1784.86.91.177.72.1403328498.squirrel@webmail1.clsmail.net> Lasse ** Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the ** distance to the surface? Because of the extreme (large) difference in characteristic acoustic impedance of seawater versus air, you will experience a sound power reflection coefficient of (typical) 0.99893 between seawater (@ +15?C) and air at sea level (@ +20?C). Simply stated, you will receive (echo) 99.893% of the sound send upwards from a submarine towards the surface. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SEAWATER (15?C) characteristic acoustic impedance : 1.5443675 density : 1.025 SG longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 1506.7 m/sec wavelength @ 300 Hz : 5.02 m wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center) : 1.59 m wavelength @ 3000 Hz : 50.2 cm ( 19.773 inches ) AIR, AT SEA LEVEL (+20?C) characteristic acoustic impedance : 0.0004132128 density : 0.001204 SG longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 343.2 m/sec wavelength @ 300 Hz : 1.14 m wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center) : 36.2 cm ( 14.243 inches ) wavelength @ 3000 Hz : 11.4 cm ( 4.504 inches ) sound power reflection coefficient : 0.99893 ( 99.893 percent ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Best regards, Jens Laland http://traktoria.org ----------------------------- My webpage works 100% with the Firefox Internet Browser, only http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/products/download.html?product=firefox From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 21 04:13:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 10:13:20 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: <1784.86.91.177.72.1403328498.squirrel@webmail1.clsmail.net> References: <1784.86.91.177.72.1403328498.squirrel@webmail1.clsmail.net> Message-ID: <76F8347E-4246-4242-AB6C-9C8A97E028C1@upplevelsepresent.se> wow, this is awesome thanks for the help. We?ll have the chance to try this out next week. If it works, we will have both analogue and digital depth gauges. I?ll make sure to take some photos and upload them later. Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 21 jun 2014 kl. 07:28 skrev Jens Laland via Personal_Submersibles : > Lasse > > ** Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the > ** distance to the surface? > > Because of the extreme (large) difference in characteristic acoustic > impedance of seawater versus air, you will experience a sound power > reflection coefficient of (typical) 0.99893 between seawater (@ +15?C) and > air at sea level (@ +20?C). > > Simply stated, you will receive (echo) 99.893% of the sound send upwards > from a submarine towards the surface. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > SEAWATER (15?C) > characteristic acoustic impedance : 1.5443675 > density : 1.025 SG > longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 1506.7 m/sec > wavelength @ 300 Hz : 5.02 m > wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center) : 1.59 m > wavelength @ 3000 Hz : 50.2 cm ( 19.773 inches ) > > AIR, AT SEA LEVEL (+20?C) > characteristic acoustic impedance : 0.0004132128 > density : 0.001204 SG > longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 343.2 m/sec > wavelength @ 300 Hz : 1.14 m > wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center) : 36.2 cm ( 14.243 inches ) > wavelength @ 3000 Hz : 11.4 cm ( 4.504 inches ) > > sound power reflection coefficient : 0.99893 ( 99.893 percent ) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Best regards, > Jens Laland > > http://traktoria.org > ----------------------------- > My webpage works 100% with the Firefox Internet Browser, only > http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/products/download.html?product=firefox > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 21 07:34:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 04:34:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: <76F8347E-4246-4242-AB6C-9C8A97E028C1@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <1784.86.91.177.72.1403328498.squirrel@webmail1.clsmail.net> <76F8347E-4246-4242-AB6C-9C8A97E028C1@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1403350453.93742.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Lasse, I've seen a "splitter" ?or "junction box" you can buy for one of the echo sounders. This enables input from 2 transducers to one screen. >From memory the change over from one view to another wasn't that straight forward. I'm a bit vague about this, someone else may be able to give more information. All the best with the testing. Alan ________________________________ From: Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder wow, this is awesome thanks for the help. We?ll have the chance to try this out next week. If it works, we will have both analogue and digital depth gauges. I?ll make sure to? take some photos and upload them later. Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 21 jun 2014 kl. 07:28 skrev Jens Laland via Personal_Submersibles : > Lasse > > ** Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the > ** distance to the surface? > > Because of the extreme (large) difference in characteristic acoustic > impedance of seawater versus air, you will experience a sound power > reflection coefficient of (typical) 0.99893 between seawater (@ +15?C) and > air at sea level (@ +20?C). > > Simply stated, you will receive (echo) 99.893% of the sound send upwards > from a submarine towards the surface. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > SEAWATER (15?C) >? characteristic acoustic impedance? ? : 1.5443675 >? density? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 1.025 SG >? longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 1506.7 m/sec >? wavelength @ 300 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 5.02 m >? wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center)? ? : 1.59 m >? wavelength @ 3000 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 50.2 cm? ? (? 19.773 inches ) > > AIR, AT SEA LEVEL (+20?C) >? characteristic acoustic impedance? ? : 0.0004132128 >? density? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 0.001204 SG >? longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 343.2 m/sec >? wavelength @ 300 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 1.14 m >? wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center)? ? : 36.2 cm? ? (? 14.243 inches ) >? wavelength @ 3000 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 11.4 cm? ? (? 4.504 inches ) > > sound power reflection coefficient? ? ? : 0.99893? ? (? 99.893 percent ) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Best regards, > Jens Laland > > http://traktoria.org > ----------------------------- > My webpage works 100% with the Firefox Internet Browser, only > http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/products/download.html?product=firefox > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 21 08:07:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 05:07:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder In-Reply-To: <1403350453.93742.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1784.86.91.177.72.1403328498.squirrel@webmail1.clsmail.net> <76F8347E-4246-4242-AB6C-9C8A97E028C1@upplevelsepresent.se> <1403350453.93742.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1403352430.64068.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I experimented with this and had no luck at all, I tried getting a forward view with no luck.? I must have done it wrong.? I also thought an echo sounder needs something to bounce off.? The surface has no density like the bottom to bounce off.? Hank On Saturday, June 21, 2014 7:37:45 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Lasse, I've seen a "splitter" ?or "junction box" you can buy for one of the echo sounders. This enables input from 2 transducers to one screen. From memory the change over from one view to another wasn't that straight forward. I'm a bit vague about this, someone else may be able to give more information. All the best with the testing. Alan ________________________________ From: Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reversed echo sounder wow, this is awesome thanks for the help. We?ll have the chance to try this out next week. If it works, we will have both analogue and digital depth gauges. I?ll make sure to? take some photos and upload them later. Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 21 jun 2014 kl. 07:28 skrev Jens Laland via Personal_Submersibles : > Lasse > > ** Is it possible to turn an echo sounder towards the surface to measure the > ** distance to the surface? > > Because of the extreme (large) difference in characteristic acoustic > impedance of seawater versus air, you will experience a sound power > reflection coefficient of (typical) 0.99893 between seawater (@ +15?C) and > air at sea level (@ +20?C). > > Simply stated, you will receive (echo) 99.893% of the sound send upwards > from a submarine towards the surface. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > SEAWATER (15?C) >? characteristic acoustic impedance? ? : 1.5443675 >? density? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 1.025 SG >? longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 1506.7 m/sec >? wavelength @ 300 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 5.02 m >? wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center)? ? : 1.59 m >? wavelength @ 3000 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 50.2 cm? ? (? 19.773 inches ) > > AIR, AT SEA LEVEL (+20?C) >? characteristic acoustic impedance? ? : 0.0004132128 >? density? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 0.001204 SG >? longitudinal velocity of sound waves : 343.2 m/sec >? wavelength @ 300 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 1.14 m >? wavelength @ 948.683 Hz (center)? ? : 36.2 cm? ? (? 14.243 inches ) >? wavelength @ 3000 Hz? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? : 11.4 cm? ? (? 4.504 inches ) > > sound power reflection coefficient? ? ? : 0.99893? ? (? 99.893 percent ) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Best regards, > Jens Laland > > http://traktoria.org/ > ----------------------------- > My webpage works 100% with the Firefox Internet Browser, only > http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/products/download.html?product=firefox > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 21 16:16:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 13:16:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database In-Reply-To: <34d9.4cd89ea2.40d5fe03@aol.com> Message-ID: <1403381812.8162.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> That's the one . -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/20/14, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Date: Friday, June 20, 2014, 2:13 PM Pete, Are you referring to this Nemo or another one? Jim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNnAyzhRHc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfWiV05tz_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD9p5xi9a0U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt5BudWd9Xw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjBJ1vcIg3Y ? In a message dated 6/20/2014 4:08:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Anybody have any links with more about Nemo-2? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/20/14, Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 20, 2014, 9:13 AM Hi, Jon , PLEASE?NOTE changes ?Sgt. Peppers ISDB: 1272847302? ?Owner Carsten Standfuss - City Rostock, Country Germany Euronaut Status : Operational??? -? City Rostock Nemo Manufacturer:? Reinhard K?ster - City Berlin? Germany UC Nautilus is missing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC3_Nautilus Comet is missing http://uboot-comet.de/cms/index.php/technische-daten Nemo-2 is Missing vbr Carsten "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Modified Malen, ISDB# 1272847696 > Modified Nekton Gamma, ISDB# 129868908 > Modified Poisson Pilote, ISDB# 139829925 > > PSUBS members can access and modify their submarine information using > their PSUBS username and password.? Go to www.subdb.info -> Support -> > Log In > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles f _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 21 20:09:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 22 Jun 2014 00:09 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database In-Reply-To: <34d9.4cd89ea2.40d5fe03@aol.com> References: <34d9.4cd89ea2.40d5fe03@aol.com> Message-ID: <1WyVLj-12C5su0@fwd28.t-online.de> It is in the Video from about 2:06 upo to 2:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP7W-VMmVns And it is not Nemo 100 class.. Here a nice video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBshJ_avKFU vbr Carsten "via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Pete, Are you referring to this Nemo or another one? Jim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNnAyzhRHc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfWiV05tz_o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD9p5xi9a0U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt5BudWd9Xw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjBJ1vcIg3Y In a message dated 6/20/2014 4:08:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Anybody have any links with more about Nemo-2? -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/20/14, Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBDB - Submarine Database To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Friday, June 20, 2014, 9:13 AM Hi, Jon , PLEASE NOTE changes Sgt. Peppers ISDB: 1272847302 Owner Carsten Standfuss - City Rostock, Country Germany Euronaut Status : Operational - City Rostock Nemo Manufacturer: Reinhard K?ster - City Berlin Germany UC Nautilus is missing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC3_Nautilus Comet is missing http://uboot-comet.de/cms/index.php/technische-daten Nemo-2 is Missing vbr Carsten "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Modified Malen, ISDB# 1272847696 > Modified Nekton Gamma, ISDB# 129868908 > Modified Poisson Pilote, ISDB# 139829925 > > PSUBS members can access and modify their submarine information using > their PSUBS username and password. Go to www.subdb.info -> Support -> > Log In > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles f _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 24 05:34:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:34:35 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? Message-ID: Hi All, Im making some modifications to my trailer. i wondered if anyone could give me some advice re: hydraulic rams. What im trying to do is get 2 rams that will lift the front of the trailer so the sub can be winched down ramps onto the floor. Ive made wheels that will replace the skids. Pics to follow, not quite finished yet. However, i know very little about hydraulic rams. I dont know whether i should be looking for rams with a pump? There seems to be loads of rams on ebay but very few with the pump, and i havent a clue what i need in that respect. This one looks ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iskra-Hydraulic-Pump-3-Rams-Hoses-Atos-Cetop-Valves-and-Gauges-/161340505068?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2590a4bbec#ht_557wt_977 Or this one is a manual one, which would probably be ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-ram-and-2-stage-hand-pump-Suit-log-splitter-or-engine-hoist-/251567274389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a9293f995#ht_82wt_977 Or should i be looking for something else? Bottle jacks? or rams that trucks use to stabalise them? Any advice gratefully recieved. I suppose we best take this off list as its not really sub related. Many thanks James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 24 06:16:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:16:32 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cf8f95$5fa4d210$1eee7630$@net> Hi James Why complicate matters with hydraulic rams if you lift the front of the trailer what is going to hold the weight of the sub and trailer I will be using the natural fall of the ramp to lower the sub down the slip. Save your money if you still want to lift the font of the trailer use large jockey wheels and just raise the trailer by turning the handle my trailer jockey wheel lifts about twelve inches. Regards Graham From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 24 June 2014 10:35 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? Hi All, Im making some modifications to my trailer. i wondered if anyone could give me some advice re: hydraulic rams. What im trying to do is get 2 rams that will lift the front of the trailer so the sub can be winched down ramps onto the floor. Ive made wheels that will replace the skids. Pics to follow, not quite finished yet. However, i know very little about hydraulic rams. I dont know whether i should be looking for rams with a pump? There seems to be loads of rams on ebay but very few with the pump, and i havent a clue what i need in that respect. This one looks ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iskra-Hydraulic-Pump-3-Rams-Hoses-Atos-Cetop-Valves-and-Gauges-/161340505068?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3 &hash=item2590a4bbec#ht_557wt_977 Or this one is a manual one, which would probably be ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-ram-and-2-stage-hand-pump-Suit-log-splitter-or-engine-hoist-/251567274389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3 &hash=item3a9293f995#ht_82wt_977 Or should i be looking for something else? Bottle jacks? or rams that trucks use to stabalise them? Any advice gratefully recieved. I suppose we best take this off list as its not really sub related. Many thanks James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 24 06:30:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:30:22 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? In-Reply-To: <000601cf8f95$5fa4d210$1eee7630$@net> References: <000601cf8f95$5fa4d210$1eee7630$@net> Message-ID: yes, thats not a bad idea Graham. I'll make the ramps this weekend and see how high i need to jack up the trailer, not much i dont think. Jockey wheels would probably be ok. On 24 June 2014 11:16, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James > > > > Why complicate matters with hydraulic rams if you lift the front of the > trailer what is going to hold the weight of the sub and trailer I will be > using the natural fall of the ramp to lower the sub down the slip. Save > your money if you still want to lift the font of the trailer use large > jockey wheels and just raise the trailer by turning the handle my trailer > jockey wheel lifts about twelve inches. > > > > Regards > > > > Graham > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* 24 June 2014 10:35 > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? > > > > Hi All, > > > > Im making some modifications to my trailer. i wondered if anyone could > give me some advice re: hydraulic rams. What im trying to do is get 2 rams > that will lift the front of the trailer so the sub can be winched > down ramps onto the floor. Ive made wheels that will replace the skids. > Pics to follow, not quite finished yet. > > > > However, i know very little about hydraulic rams. I dont know whether i > should be looking for rams with a pump? There seems to be loads of rams on > ebay but very few with the pump, and i havent a clue what i need in that > respect. This one looks ok? > > > > > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iskra-Hydraulic-Pump-3-Rams-Hoses-Atos-Cetop-Valves-and-Gauges-/161340505068?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2590a4bbec#ht_557wt_977 > > > > Or this one is a manual one, which would probably be ok? > > > > > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-ram-and-2-stage-hand-pump-Suit-log-splitter-or-engine-hoist-/251567274389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a9293f995#ht_82wt_977 > > > > Or should i be looking for something else? Bottle jacks? or rams that > trucks use to stabalise them? > > > > Any advice gratefully recieved. I suppose we best take this off list as > its not really sub related. > > Many thanks > > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 24 07:34:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:34:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? In-Reply-To: References: <000601cf8f95$5fa4d210$1eee7630$@net> Message-ID: Hi James, If still interested in hydraulic power look at www.surpluscenter.com. They have all in one 12 volt power packs that include a motor and hydraulic pump and resevoir. They also have a wide range of hydraulic cylinders. I have used them many times. Great people. Best Regards, Jim Kocourek On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 5:30 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > yes, thats not a bad idea Graham. I'll make the ramps this weekend and > see how high i need to jack up the trailer, not much i dont think. Jockey > wheels would probably be ok. > > On 24 June 2014 11:16, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James >> >> >> >> Why complicate matters with hydraulic rams if you lift the front of the >> trailer what is going to hold the weight of the sub and trailer I will be >> using the natural fall of the ramp to lower the sub down the slip. Save >> your money if you still want to lift the font of the trailer use large >> jockey wheels and just raise the trailer by turning the handle my trailer >> jockey wheel lifts about twelve inches. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Graham >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* 24 June 2014 10:35 >> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> Im making some modifications to my trailer. i wondered if anyone could >> give me some advice re: hydraulic rams. What im trying to do is get 2 rams >> that will lift the front of the trailer so the sub can be winched >> down ramps onto the floor. Ive made wheels that will replace the skids. >> Pics to follow, not quite finished yet. >> >> >> >> However, i know very little about hydraulic rams. I dont know whether i >> should be looking for rams with a pump? There seems to be loads of rams on >> ebay but very few with the pump, and i havent a clue what i need in that >> respect. This one looks ok? >> >> >> >> >> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iskra-Hydraulic-Pump-3-Rams-Hoses-Atos-Cetop-Valves-and-Gauges-/161340505068?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2590a4bbec#ht_557wt_977 >> >> >> >> Or this one is a manual one, which would probably be ok? >> >> >> >> >> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-ram-and-2-stage-hand-pump-Suit-log-splitter-or-engine-hoist-/251567274389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a9293f995#ht_82wt_977 >> >> >> >> Or should i be looking for something else? Bottle jacks? or rams that >> trucks use to stabalise them? >> >> >> >> Any advice gratefully recieved. I suppose we best take this off list as >> its not really sub related. >> >> Many thanks >> >> James >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 24 09:39:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:39:48 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? In-Reply-To: References: <000601cf8f95$5fa4d210$1eee7630$@net> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Thanks for that. Im probably going to keep it simple and go with Grahams idea of jockey wheels. But, im still interested in knowing more about vehicle hydraulics as its something i know little about. Will almost certainly need it for my next sub project. Many thanks Nanmes On 24 June 2014 12:34, kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > > If still interested in hydraulic power look at www.surpluscenter.com. > They have all in one 12 volt power packs that include a motor and hydraulic > pump and resevoir. They also have a wide range of hydraulic cylinders. > > I have used them many times. Great people. > > Best Regards, > > Jim Kocourek > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 5:30 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> yes, thats not a bad idea Graham. I'll make the ramps this weekend and >> see how high i need to jack up the trailer, not much i dont think. Jockey >> wheels would probably be ok. >> >> On 24 June 2014 11:16, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi James >>> >>> >>> >>> Why complicate matters with hydraulic rams if you lift the front of the >>> trailer what is going to hold the weight of the sub and trailer I will be >>> using the natural fall of the ramp to lower the sub down the slip. Save >>> your money if you still want to lift the font of the trailer use large >>> jockey wheels and just raise the trailer by turning the handle my trailer >>> jockey wheel lifts about twelve inches. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> >>> Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland >>> via Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* 24 June 2014 10:35 >>> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> >>> Im making some modifications to my trailer. i wondered if anyone could >>> give me some advice re: hydraulic rams. What im trying to do is get 2 rams >>> that will lift the front of the trailer so the sub can be winched >>> down ramps onto the floor. Ive made wheels that will replace the skids. >>> Pics to follow, not quite finished yet. >>> >>> >>> >>> However, i know very little about hydraulic rams. I dont know whether i >>> should be looking for rams with a pump? There seems to be loads of rams on >>> ebay but very few with the pump, and i havent a clue what i need in that >>> respect. This one looks ok? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iskra-Hydraulic-Pump-3-Rams-Hoses-Atos-Cetop-Valves-and-Gauges-/161340505068?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2590a4bbec#ht_557wt_977 >>> >>> >>> >>> Or this one is a manual one, which would probably be ok? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-ram-and-2-stage-hand-pump-Suit-log-splitter-or-engine-hoist-/251567274389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a9293f995#ht_82wt_977 >>> >>> >>> >>> Or should i be looking for something else? Bottle jacks? or rams that >>> trucks use to stabalise them? >>> >>> >>> >>> Any advice gratefully recieved. I suppose we best take this off list as >>> its not really sub related. >>> >>> Many thanks >>> >>> James >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 24 10:32:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? Message-ID: <41867.62c47637.40dae5fb@aol.com> James, We have people over here that could help you with that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlVyayjS8ek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLKnhW1M04U Jim In a message dated 6/24/2014 8:40:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi Jim, Thanks for that. Im probably going to keep it simple and go with Grahams idea of jockey wheels. But, im still interested in knowing more about vehicle hydraulics as its something i know little about. Will almost certainly need it for my next sub project. Many thanks Nanmes On 24 June 2014 12:34, kocpnt _tds.net_ (http://tds.net/) via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi James, If still interested in hydraulic power look at _www.surpluscenter.com_ (http://www.surpluscenter.com/) . They have all in one 12 volt power packs that include a motor and hydraulic pump and resevoir. They also have a wide range of hydraulic cylinders. I have used them many times. Great people. Best Regards, Jim Kocourek On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 5:30 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: yes, thats not a bad idea Graham. I'll make the ramps this weekend and see how high i need to jack up the trailer, not much i dont think. Jockey wheels would probably be ok. On 24 June 2014 11:16, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: Hi James Why complicate matters with hydraulic rams if you lift the front of the trailer what is going to hold the weight of the sub and trailer I will be using the natural fall of the ramp to lower the sub down the slip. Save your money if you still want to lift the font of the trailer use large jockey wheels and just raise the trailer by turning the handle my trailer jockey wheel lifts about twelve inches. Regards Graham From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:_personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org) ] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 24 June 2014 10:35 To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Ram Advice? Hi All, Im making some modifications to my trailer. i wondered if anyone could give me some advice re: hydraulic rams. What im trying to do is get 2 rams that will lift the front of the trailer so the sub can be winched down ramps onto the floor. Ive made wheels that will replace the skids. Pics to follow, not quite finished yet. However, i know very little about hydraulic rams. I dont know whether i should be looking for rams with a pump? There seems to be loads of rams on ebay but very few with the pump, and i havent a clue what i need in that respect. This one looks ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iskra-Hydraulic-Pump-3-Rams-Hoses-Atos-Cetop-Valve s-and-Gauges-/161340505068?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2590a4bbec#ht_557w t_977 Or this one is a manual one, which would probably be ok? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydraulic-ram-and-2-stage-hand-pump-Suit-log-split ter-or-engine-hoist-/251567274389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a9293f995# ht_82wt_977 Or should i be looking for something else? Bottle jacks? or rams that trucks use to stabalise them? Any advice gratefully recieved. I suppose we best take this off list as its not really sub related. Many thanks James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 26 08:44:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 05:44:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system Message-ID: <1403786648.36453.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, I thought I would give you some info on ramps.? I started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short.? I switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect.? I have 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck is 18 inches high.? Also, I am sue you know already, but support legs at the back of the trailer are a must.? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 26 09:52:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 14:52:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: <1403786648.36453.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1403786648.36453.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Thanks for that. Ive been looking at ramps all week. Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also got some more wheels for a cart. Will need ramps, legs and a new winch. But im thinking i might be over complicating things. Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for launching and consider it disposable. Buy a new one when it rots away. regards James On 26 June 2014 13:44, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > I thought I would give you some info on ramps. I started with 4 foot long > ramps and they were to short. I switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is > perfect. I have 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer > deck is 18 inches high. Also, I am sue you know already, but support legs > at the back of the trailer are a must. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 26 21:29:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:29:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> What about somekind of liftbag cradle thing? -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 6/26/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 6:52 AM Hi Hank, ? Thanks for that.? Ive been looking at ramps all week.? Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also got some more wheels for a cart.? Will need ramps, legs and a new winch. ? But im thinking i might be over complicating things.? Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for launching and consider it disposable.? Buy a new one when it?rots away.? regards James On 26 June 2014 13:44, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, I thought I would give you some info on ramps.? I started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short.? I switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect.? I have 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck is 18 inches high.? Also, I am sue you know already, but support legs at the back of the trailer are a must.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 26 21:58:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:58:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1403834281.23356.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, There is not one perfect solution because we all have different needs.? I would love to have wheels on my sub but the ramps are not concrete all the way here.? The disposable trailer is perfect if you have the depth.? I am actually considering putting ballast tanks on my cart.? So I winch the cart with sub into the lake and they both float to the dock.? Let air out of the cart ballast tanks and float sub out of cart while cart is tied up to dock.? In the mean time my helper is parking the truck. Hank On Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:29:31 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: What about somekind of liftbag cradle thing?? ? ? ? ? -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 6/26/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 6:52 AM Hi Hank, ? Thanks for that.? Ive been looking at ramps all week.? Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also got some more wheels for a cart.? Will need ramps, legs and a new winch. ? But im thinking i might be over complicating things.? Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for launching and consider it disposable.? Buy a new one when it?rots away.? regards James On 26 June 2014 13:44, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, I thought I would give you some info on ramps.? I started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short.? I switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect.? I have 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck is 18 inches high.? Also, I am sue you know already, but support legs at the back of the trailer are a must.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 26 23:13:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 20:13:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub For Sale Message-ID: <1403838798.71064.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Someone alerted me to this Newspaper / online article about Hugh's subs. Below that link I've posted another ?to the trademe auction site. If it sells for near the reserve, someone will get a real bargin. It is a solid sub with lots of room & in great?condition.? Submarine seller urges buyers to take plunge - National - NZ Herald News Submarine seller urges buyers to take plunge - National ... What do you buy for the person who has everything? How about a submarine? - New Zealand Herald View on www.nzherald.co.nz Preview by Yahoo This is a link to the "Trademe" auction site. I was amused by the questions & answers.? A submarine sighting is akin to a UFO sighting down here in N.Z.. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/motorboats/auction-745354065.htm Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 07:05:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:05:00 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: <1403834281.23356.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1403834281.23356.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Floats isnt a bad idea either. My problem is that my trailer is too tall, meaning ive got to push it really deep into the water to get the sub off. Still not sure what im doing with it. I'll finish my skid wheels this weekend and see how they work out. On 27 June 2014 02:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > There is not one perfect solution because we all have different needs. I > would love to have wheels on my sub but the ramps are not concrete all the > way here. The disposable trailer is perfect if you have the depth. > I am actually considering putting ballast tanks on my cart. So I winch > the cart with sub into the lake and they both float to the dock. Let air > out of the cart ballast tanks and float sub out of cart while cart is tied > up to dock. In the mean time my helper is parking the truck. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:29:31 PM, Pete Niedermayr via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > What about somekind of liftbag cradle thing? > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 6/26/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 6:52 AM > > Hi Hank, > > Thanks for that. Ive been looking at ramps all > week. Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also > got some more wheels for a cart. Will need ramps, legs and > a new winch. > > But im thinking i might be over complicating things. > Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and > im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for > launching and consider it disposable. Buy a new one when > it rots away. > > > regards > James > > On 26 June 2014 13:44, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > James, > I thought I would give you some info on ramps. I > started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short. I > switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect. I have > 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck > is 18 inches high. Also, I am sue you know already, but > support legs at the back of the trailer are a must. > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 07:10:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:10:24 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: References: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1403834281.23356.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53AD5120.3070007@archivale.com> Here's your solution! Marc On 6/27/2014 7:05 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Floats isnt a bad idea either. My problem is that my trailer is too > tall, meaning ive got to push it really deep into the water to get the > sub off. Still not sure what im doing with it. I'll finish my skid > wheels this weekend and see how they work out. > > On 27 June 2014 02:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > James, > There is not one perfect solution because we all have different > needs. I would love to have wheels on my sub but the ramps are not > concrete all the way here. The disposable trailer is perfect if you > have the depth. > I am actually considering putting ballast tanks on my cart. So I > winch the cart with sub into the lake and they both float to the > dock. Let air out of the cart ballast tanks and float sub out of > cart while cart is tied up to dock. In the mean time my helper is > parking the truck. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:29:31 PM, Pete Niedermayr via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > What about somekind of liftbag cradle thing? > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 6/26/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 6:52 AM > > Hi Hank, > > Thanks for that. Ive been looking at ramps all > week. Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also > got some more wheels for a cart. Will need ramps, legs and > a new winch. > > But im thinking i might be over complicating things. > Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and > im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for > launching and consider it disposable. Buy a new one when > it rots away. > > > regards > James > > On 26 June 2014 13:44, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > > > James, > I thought I would give you some info on ramps. I > started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short. I > switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect. I have > 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck > is 18 inches high. Also, I am sue you know already, but > support legs at the back of the trailer are a must. > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Seeteufel_Elefant.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 133019 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 08:23:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:23:52 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: <53AD5120.3070007@archivale.com> References: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1403834281.23356.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53AD5120.3070007@archivale.com> Message-ID: that would do it! My new 20 wheeled skids aren't far off actually! On 27 June 2014 12:10, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Here's your solution! > > Marc > > > On 6/27/2014 7:05 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Floats isnt a bad idea either. My problem is that my trailer is too >> tall, meaning ive got to push it really deep into the water to get the >> sub off. Still not sure what im doing with it. I'll finish my skid >> wheels this weekend and see how they work out. >> >> On 27 June 2014 02:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >> James, >> There is not one perfect solution because we all have different >> needs. I would love to have wheels on my sub but the ramps are not >> concrete all the way here. The disposable trailer is perfect if you >> have the depth. >> I am actually considering putting ballast tanks on my cart. So I >> winch the cart with sub into the lake and they both float to the >> dock. Let air out of the cart ballast tanks and float sub out of >> cart while cart is tied up to dock. In the mean time my helper is >> parking the truck. >> Hank >> >> >> On Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:29:31 PM, Pete Niedermayr via >> Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: >> >> >> >> What about somekind of liftbag cradle thing? >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Thu, 6/26/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> > > >> >> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 6:52 AM >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> Thanks for that. Ive been looking at ramps all >> week. Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also >> got some more wheels for a cart. Will need ramps, legs and >> a new winch. >> >> But im thinking i might be over complicating things. >> Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and >> im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for >> launching and consider it disposable. Buy a new one when >> it rots away. >> >> >> regards >> James >> >> On 26 June 2014 13:44, >> hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > > >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> James, >> I thought I would give you some info on ramps. I >> started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short. I >> switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect. I have >> 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck >> is 18 inches high. Also, I am sue you know already, but >> support legs at the back of the trailer are a must. >> >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > psubs.org> >> >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > psubs.org> >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > psubs.org> >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > psubs.org> >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 08:44:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 05:44:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: References: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1403834281.23356.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53AD5120.3070007@archivale.com> Message-ID: <1403873049.54688.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, If you can get hold of a tandem boat trailer and rig ramps with your roller wheels, you will sure have a slick set up.? The boat trailer is likely the lowest trailer you will find and already has bearing buddies. Hank On Friday, June 27, 2014 8:24:16 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: that would do it!? My new 20 wheeled skids aren't far off actually! On 27 June 2014 12:10, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here's your solution! > >Marc > > >On 6/27/2014 7:05 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Floats isnt a bad idea either. ?My problem is that my trailer is too >>tall, meaning ive got to push it really deep into the water to get the >>sub off. ?Still not sure what im doing with it. ?I'll finish my skid >>wheels this weekend and see how they work out. >> >>On 27 June 2014 02:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> wrote: >> >>? ? James, >>? ? There is not one perfect solution because we all have different >>? ? needs. ?I would love to have wheels on my sub but the ramps are not >>? ? concrete all the way here. ?The disposable trailer is perfect if you >>? ? have the depth. >>? ? I am actually considering putting ballast tanks on my cart. ?So I >>? ? winch the cart with sub into the lake and they both float to the >>? ? dock. ?Let air out of the cart ballast tanks and float sub out of >>? ? cart while cart is tied up to dock. ?In the mean time my helper is >>? ? parking the truck. >>? ? Hank >> >> >>? ? On Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:29:31 PM, Pete Niedermayr via >>? ? Personal_Submersibles > >>? ? > wrote: >> >> >> >>? ? What about somekind of liftbag cradle thing? >>? ? -------------------------------------------- >>? ? On Thu, 6/26/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>? ? > >>? ? > wrote: >> >>? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system >>? ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>? ? >? ? > >> >>? ? Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 6:52 AM >> >>? ? Hi Hank, >> >>? ? Thanks for that. ?Ive been looking at ramps all >>? ? week. ?Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also >>? ? got some more wheels for a cart. ?Will need ramps, legs and >>? ? a new winch. >> >>? ? But im thinking i might be over complicating things. >>? ? Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and >>? ? im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for >>? ? launching and consider it disposable. ?Buy a new one when >>? ? it rots away. >> >> >>? ? regards >>? ? James >> >>? ? On 26 June 2014 13:44, >>? ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>? ? >? ? > >> >>? ? wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>? ? James, >>? ? I thought I would give you some info on ramps. ?I >>? ? started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short. ?I >>? ? switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect. ?I have >>? ? 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck >>? ? is 18 inches high. ?Also, I am sue you know already, but >>? ? support legs at the back of the trailer are a must. >> >>? ? Hank >>? ? _______________________________________________ >>? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> >>? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >>? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >>? ? _______________________________________________ >>? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >>? ? _______________________________________________ >>? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >>? ? _______________________________________________ >>? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >>? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >-- >Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog >Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog >Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 >Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc >Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 09:09:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:09:00 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system In-Reply-To: <1403873049.54688.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1403832548.26155.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1403834281.23356.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <53AD5120.3070007@archivale.com> <1403873049.54688.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thats exactly the type of trailer i already have! I just shortened it a bit to get it out of the garden and put a wooden flatbed on it. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page28646.htm On 27 June 2014 13:44, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > If you can get hold of a tandem boat trailer and rig ramps with your > roller wheels, you will sure have a slick set up. The boat trailer is > likely the lowest trailer you will find and already has bearing buddies. > Hank > > > On Friday, June 27, 2014 8:24:16 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > that would do it! My new 20 wheeled skids aren't far off actually! > > On 27 June 2014 12:10, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Here's your solution! > > Marc > > > On 6/27/2014 7:05 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Floats isnt a bad idea either. My problem is that my trailer is too > tall, meaning ive got to push it really deep into the water to get the > sub off. Still not sure what im doing with it. I'll finish my skid > wheels this weekend and see how they work out. > > On 27 June 2014 02:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > James, > There is not one perfect solution because we all have different > needs. I would love to have wheels on my sub but the ramps are not > concrete all the way here. The disposable trailer is perfect if you > have the depth. > I am actually considering putting ballast tanks on my cart. So I > winch the cart with sub into the lake and they both float to the > dock. Let air out of the cart ballast tanks and float sub out of > cart while cart is tied up to dock. In the mean time my helper is > parking the truck. > Hank > > > On Thursday, June 26, 2014 9:29:31 PM, Pete Niedermayr via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > What about somekind of liftbag cradle thing? > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 6/26/14, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch system > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2014, 6:52 AM > > Hi Hank, > > Thanks for that. Ive been looking at ramps all > week. Ive made wheels for the replacement skids and also > got some more wheels for a cart. Will need ramps, legs and > a new winch. > > But im thinking i might be over complicating things. > Ive also made a long 4m pole extention for the trailer and > im tempted to just dump the trailer in the water for > launching and consider it disposable. Buy a new one when > it rots away. > > > regards > James > > On 26 June 2014 13:44, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > > wrote: > > > > > > James, > I thought I would give you some info on ramps. I > started with 4 foot long ramps and they were to short. I > switched to 7 foot long ramps and that is perfect. I have > 2 inches clearance under my cart frame and the trailer deck > is 18 inches high. Also, I am sue you know already, but > support legs at the back of the trailer are a must. > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org psubs.org> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org psubs.org> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org psubs.org> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org psubs.org> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 14:09:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 20:09:49 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses Message-ID: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> Hey Guys, We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. [cid:87496F59-AAC7-453B-9E96-81AA2704B447] [cid:D27306A3-FA94-4ED0-BFCC-3BDE816E0898] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 86879 bytes Desc: image.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bild.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 149208 bytes Desc: bild.JPG URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 14:26:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 27 Jun 2014 18:26 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1X0aqf-3bZrQ80@fwd33.t-online.de> Lasse - impess pictures - but if I see the high raise batteries far in the stern.. How many ballast you have below the pressure hull in the forward area? Have you check your center of graphity against center of bouancy in the last time? You will not find so much literature about to operate a midget sub. - Make sure if you put it in the water - anyway if crane or trailer- that it is complete ready to dive sealed condition. vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hey Guys, We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 86879 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bild.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 149208 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 15:02:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acquarius view Message-ID: Pic from inside Nuytco's Aquarius in 2013 via National Geographic. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131018-glass-sponge-reef-can ada-ocean-science/ Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 15:15:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:15:21 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <1X0aqf-3bZrQ80@fwd33.t-online.de> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> <1X0aqf-3bZrQ80@fwd33.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1E3D5F18-21D2-405C-A942-81674E9FB7EA@upplevelsepresent.se> What is not visible in the picture is the 200 kg diesel engine to be installed, the batteries under the blue cushions (200 kg?s), and of course the movable keel weight of 1,5 tons. Our calculations show the sub being to light to dive with only one person, but from a stability point of view - we have no problems as it looks now. Cheers, Lasse 27 jun 2014 kl. 20:26 skrev "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles >: Lasse - impess pictures - but if I see the high raise batteries far in the stern.. How many ballast you have below the pressure hull in the forward area? Have you check your center of graphity against center of bouancy in the last time? You will not find so much literature about to operate a midget sub. - Make sure if you put it in the water - anyway if crane or trailer- that it is complete ready to dive sealed condition. vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: Hey Guys, We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 16:18:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 27 Jun 2014 20:18 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1X0cbJ-0mw9dw0@fwd20.t-online.de> Lasse do you have pictures or drawings to show of the finish boat? vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hey Guys, We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 86879 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bild.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 149208 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 16:26:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 22:26:01 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <1X0cbJ-0mw9dw0@fwd20.t-online.de> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> <1X0cbJ-0mw9dw0@fwd20.t-online.de> Message-ID: <0BCA8805-CCA9-424C-94EF-C2E681F707BC@upplevelsepresent.se> Not yet, I?ll post as have some. Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 27 jun 2014 kl. 22:18 skrev "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles >: Lasse do you have pictures or drawings to show of the finish boat? vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: Hey Guys, We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 17:49:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:49:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <0BCA8805-CCA9-424C-94EF-C2E681F707BC@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> <1X0cbJ-0mw9dw0@fwd20.t-online.de> <0BCA8805-CCA9-424C-94EF-C2E681F707BC@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1403905754.28678.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Lasse, Do you have a variable ballast tank?? Is the tank under the grey foam a variable ballast tank?? If you have a vbt is it pumped or blown with air?? Do you rely entirely on dive planes for depth control, or do you have vertical thrusters tucked away? All subs should split in the middle, very nice. Hank On Friday, June 27, 2014 4:26:25 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Not yet, I?ll post as have some. Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 27 jun 2014 kl. 22:18 skrev "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles : E-Mail Software 6.0 Lasse do you have pictures or drawings to show of the finish boat?? vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hey Guys, > > >We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. >Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! >Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. > > > ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 27 20:12:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 28 Jun 2014 00:12 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1X0gFW-0LnGKW0@fwd19.t-online.de> Give me a call if your Sub is operational. We can have a harbour meeting at Karlskrona (half way Rostock - Stockholm) vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hey Guys, We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 86879 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bild.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 149208 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 28 12:08:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:08:51 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <1403905754.28678.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> <1X0cbJ-0mw9dw0@fwd20.t-online.de> <0BCA8805-CCA9-424C-94EF-C2E681F707BC@upplevelsepresent.se> <1403905754.28678.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85D987E1-CF15-4731-B906-CB11A98F64B7@upplevelsepresent.se> Hey Hank, We have two hard and two soft tanks, the tank you see under the gray foam is the fuel tank holding around 50 liters. Before we rebuilt this sub, there was also a large trim tank in the cockpit holding around 200 liters I guess, just where the gray foam is visible.) Instead of that tank we?ll have an adjustable platform to stand on when manouvering on surface. We removed it to save space. All tanks are blown with air, but we don?t have vertical thrusters on this puppy. A vertical thruster would fit quite nicely behind the tower though. We do have two hydraulic horizontal thrusters in the keel. 27 jun 2014 kl. 23:49 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >: Hi Lasse, Do you have a variable ballast tank? Is the tank under the grey foam a variable ballast tank? If you have a vbt is it pumped or blown with air? Do you rely entirely on dive planes for depth control, or do you have vertical thrusters tucked away? All subs should split in the middle, very nice. Hank On Friday, June 27, 2014 4:26:25 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Not yet, I?ll post as have some. Lasse Schmidt Upplevelsepresent.se Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 070-28 32 660 27 jun 2014 kl. 22:18 skrev "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles >: Lasse do you have pictures or drawings to show of the finish boat? vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: Hey Guys, We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 28 13:01:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 10:01:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <85D987E1-CF15-4731-B906-CB11A98F64B7@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> <1X0cbJ-0mw9dw0@fwd20.t-online.de> <0BCA8805-CCA9-424C-94EF-C2E681F707BC@upplevelsepresent.se> <1403905754.28678.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <85D987E1-CF15-4731-B906-CB11A98F64B7@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1403974870.77101.YahooMailNeo@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi? Lasse, I am very interested to see how things go with your first dive.? Particularly the engine performance is of great interest to me and surely others as well.? I would love to see a video of the interior operations while under way.? The noise level is my?concern, I am surprised there is no sound deadening wall.? Perhaps it is just not installed yet.? Please keep us posted and we love pictures! Hank On Saturday, June 28, 2014 12:09:16 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Hank, We have two hard and two soft tanks, the tank you see under the gray foam is the fuel tank holding around 50 liters. Before we rebuilt this sub, there was also a large trim tank in the cockpit holding around 200 liters I guess, just where the gray foam is visible.) Instead of that tank we?ll have an adjustable platform to stand on when manouvering on surface. We removed it to save space. All tanks are blown with air, but we don?t have vertical thrusters on this puppy. A vertical thruster would fit quite nicely behind the tower though. We do have two hydraulic horizontal thrusters in the keel. 27 jun 2014 kl. 23:49 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Hi Lasse, >Do you have a variable ballast tank?? Is the tank under the grey foam a variable ballast tank?? If you have a vbt is it pumped or blown with air?? Do you rely entirely on dive planes for depth control, or do you have vertical thrusters tucked away? All subs should split in the middle, very nice. >Hank > > > >On Friday, June 27, 2014 4:26:25 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Not yet, I?ll post as have some. > > >Lasse Schmidt >Upplevelsepresent.se >Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 >11130 Stockholm >070-28 32 660 > >27 jun 2014 kl. 22:18 skrev "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles : >E-Mail Software 6.0 Lasse do you have pictures or drawings to show of the finish boat?? vbr Carsten "Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hey Guys, > > >We are getting closer to completing our sub. We only have a few minor stuff to fix before putting it into the water. We are very exited. >Does any of you have tips of online materials or ebooks that relates to driving subs? All suggestions are welcome! >Two pictures of the interior so far, the diesel is not installed. > > > ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 28 15:00:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 28 Jun 2014 19:00 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submariners syllabuses In-Reply-To: <0BCA8805-CCA9-424C-94EF-C2E681F707BC@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <63095C18-91E6-4A66-9F4A-0597021FEC1E@upplevelsepresent.se> <1X0cbJ-0mw9dw0@fwd20.t-online.de> <0BCA8805-CCA9-424C-94EF-C2E681F707BC@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1X0xry-0lMGES0@fwd12.t-online.de> Lasse is that Malen ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 28 15:48:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:48:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] depth test Message-ID: <1403984913.48119.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Is there a particular speed to sink and raise a sub during the deep test?? What is the soak time at depth, 1hr? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: