From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  1 00:30:25 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:30:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulfur Batteries
In-Reply-To: <1393364591.74732.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393281624.62329.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393364591.74732.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1393651825.84482.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

More battery news.
Researchers have developed a fuel cell that uses sugar, that is 10 x as energy dense
as lithium batteries. So about 40 times as energy dense as lead acid batteries.
They say they may have a product on the market in 3 years.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/175137-sugar-powered-biobattery-has-10-times-the-energy-storage-of-lithium-your-smartphone-might-soon-run-on-enzymes

Meanwhile "Oxi" in the UK say they will have a company manufacturing their lithium sulfur
batteries in the second half of this year. Not sure if this is just the coin sized cells.
Alan



________________________________
 From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulfur Batteries
 


After a bit more Googling I found these batteries are due to go in to scooters this year.
http://www.enginetechnologyinternational.com/news.php?NewsID=40766

There are a lot of players investing big money in this technology & there are
predictions of a $100- per kWh price eventually, whereas Lead Acid is about $170-.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: psubs.org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:40 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulfur Batteries
 


Here are a couple of articles on Lithium Sulfur batteries, that look to be developing in to a promising?
battery technology, with twice the energy density of other lithium batteries at a cheaper price.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/breakthrough-energy-dense-battery-uses-lithium-and-sulfur/


http://www.gizmag.com/lithium-sulfur-battery-energy-density/29907/

This could mean air conditioning, larger more powerful motors for speedy surface transit,?
& coffee machines on Psubs.
Found out at the U.I. convention that the Deep Workers have upgraded to Lithium technology.
Alan

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Sat Mar  1 01:51:29 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 22:51:29 -0800
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulfur Batteries
Message-ID: <20140228225129.52AF676F@m0048139.ppops.net>

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From piolenc at archivale.com  Sat Mar  1 02:06:53 2014
From: piolenc at archivale.com (Marc de Piolenc)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 15:06:53 +0800
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulfur Batteries
In-Reply-To: <1393651825.84482.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393281624.62329.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393364591.74732.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393651825.84482.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5311870D.3080207@archivale.com>

I'm not sure how Li-S cells are supposed to work in small appliances. 
Like all solid-electrolyte cells, they need high temperatures to get 
charge mobility. I guess in the small stuff they just accept low charge 
and discharge rates?

Marc

On 3/1/2014 1:30 PM, Alan James wrote:
> More battery news.
> Researchers have developed a fuel cell that uses sugar, that is 10 x as
> energy dense
> as lithium batteries. So about 40 times as energy dense as lead acid
> batteries.
> They say they may have a product on the market in 3 years.
> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/175137-sugar-powered-biobattery-has-10-times-the-energy-storage-of-lithium-your-smartphone-might-soon-run-on-enzymes
> Meanwhile "Oxi" in the UK say they will have a company manufacturing
> their lithium sulfur
> batteries in the second half of this year. Not sure if this is just the
> coin sized cells.
> Alan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:43 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulfur Batteries
>
> After a bit more Googling I found these batteries are due to go in to
> scooters this year.
> http://www.enginetechnologyinternational.com/news.php?NewsID=40766
> There are a lot of players investing big money in this technology &
> there are
> predictions of a $100- per kWh price eventually, whereas Lead Acid is
> about $170-.
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> *To:* psubs.org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:40 AM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulfur Batteries
>
> Here are a couple of articles on Lithium Sulfur batteries, that look to
> be developing in to a promising
> battery technology, with twice the energy density of other lithium
> batteries at a cheaper price.
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/breakthrough-energy-dense-battery-uses-lithium-and-sulfur/
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/lithium-sulfur-battery-energy-density/29907/
> This could mean air conditioning, larger more powerful motors for speedy
> surface transit,
> & coffee machines on Psubs.
> Found out at the U.I. convention that the Deep Workers have upgraded to
> Lithium technology.
> Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

From pilotfishp at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 15:47:00 2014
From: pilotfishp at gmail.com (Antoine Delafargue)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 20:47:00 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
Message-ID: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>

the Pilot Fish project is moving on,

so I've created a page on psubs to share some photos with you.

and also the photos will go on the website (www.pilotfishproject.com)
and fb (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Projet-Poisson-Pilote/294329844027226
)

The engineering and fab are progressing fast with Paul and Emile, so there
will be frequent updates.

The big week long trip is now set to be around end of May 2015.

Funny thing, the follower boat we are thinking of using from Plymouth to St
Malo may be the one used for the Dday expedition with Aquarius and
Deepworker Phil told about. and when I visited it last week, the owner was
about to throw away a precious underwater acoustics mast used in that
expedition...which I am now hoping to keep for the underwater acoustic
tracking of our sub.


regards,
Antoine
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From vbra676539 at aol.com  Mon Mar  3 16:42:34 2014
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 16:42:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
In-Reply-To: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D105409F3FDDBA-2D64-1E0E4@webmail-m238.sysops.aol.com>

My congratulations on the new project. I'm sure we are all looking forward to hearing about things as they go along. And then one of these days we'll have to break down and have a psubs conference in Europe. 
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, Mar 3, 2014 3:47 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project



the Pilot Fish project is moving on, 


so I've created a page on psubs to share some photos with you.


and also the photos will go on the website (www.pilotfishproject.com) 
and fb (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Projet-Poisson-Pilote/294329844027226)


The engineering and fab are progressing fast with Paul and Emile, so there will be frequent updates.


The big week long trip is now set to be around end of May 2015. 


Funny thing, the follower boat we are thinking of using from Plymouth to St Malo may be the one used for the Dday expedition with Aquarius and Deepworker Phil told about. and when I visited it last week, the owner was about to throw away a precious underwater acoustics mast used in that expedition...which I am now hoping to keep for the underwater acoustic tracking of our sub.




regards,
Antoine






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Mon Mar  3 17:14:00 2014
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de ( )
Date: 03 Mar 2014 22:14 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] European conference 2014? Re:  Pilot Fish Project
In-Reply-To: <8D105409F3FDDBA-2D64-1E0E4@webmail-m238.sysops.aol.com>
References: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com> 
 <8D105409F3FDDBA-2D64-1E0E4@webmail-m238.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1WKb8Q-3D1YfY0@fwd15.t-online.de>

Hmm.. Good idea Vance..

Yes, its time for another ESC European Submarine Conference. 

Emile? 
CSC at Copenhagen Aug.2006  and  RSC at Rostock Aug.2014 ? 
All 9 years sounds good.. :-)

If we decide for Rostock I will organize it..

Nordicsub, Eurosub, Sgt.Peppers, Euronaut, UC3 Nautilus, Nemo100, Nemo
II and maybe 1-2 more. 

vbr Carsten  


<vbra676539 at aol.com> schrieb: 
My congratulations on the new project. I'm sure we are all looking
forward to hearing about things as they go along. And then one of these
days we'll have to break down and have a psubs conference in Europe.  
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, Mar 3, 2014 3:47 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project


the Pilot Fish project is moving on, 


so I've created a page on psubs to share some photos with you.


and also the photos will go on the website (www.pilotfishproject.com) 
and fb
(https://www.facebook.com/pages/Projet-Poisson-Pilote/294329844027226)


The engineering and fab are progressing fast with Paul and Emile, so
there will be frequent updates.


The big week long trip is now set to be around end of May 2015. 


Funny thing, the follower boat we are thinking of using from Plymouth to
St Malo may be the one used for the Dday expedition with Aquarius and
Deepworker Phil told about. and when I visited it last week, the owner
was about to throw away a precious underwater acoustics mast used in
that expedition...which I am now hoping to keep for the underwater
acoustic tracking of our sub.




regards,
Antoine




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 20:04:01 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 17:04:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] European conference 2014? Re: Pilot Fish Project
In-Reply-To: <1WKb8Q-3D1YfY0@fwd15.t-online.de>
References: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D105409F3FDDBA-2D64-1E0E4@webmail-m238.sysops.aol.com>
 <1WKb8Q-3D1YfY0@fwd15.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1393895041.61430.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

We had the European Conference at Rostock last year.?
Remember, I was there & so was Hugh.
Alan


________________________________
 From: "MerlinSub at t-online.de" <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 11:14 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] European conference 2014? Re:  Pilot Fish Project
 


E-Mail Software 6.0
Hmm.. Good idea Vance..

Yes, its 
time for another ESC European Submarine Conference.?

Emile? 
CSC 
at Copenhagen Aug.2006? and? RSC at Rostock Aug.2014?? 
All 9 
years sounds good.. :-)

If we decide for Rostock I will organize

it..

Nordicsub, Eurosub, Sgt.Peppers, Euronaut, UC3 Nautilus,
Nemo100, 
Nemo II and maybe 1-2 more. 

vbr Carsten? 


<vbra676539 at aol.com> schrieb: 
My congratulations on the new project.
I'm sure we are all looking forward to hearing about things as they go
along. And then one of these days we'll have to break down and have a
psubs conference in Europe.? 
>Vance
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Mon, Mar 3, 2014 3:47 pm
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
>
>
>the Pilot Fish project is moving on,?
>
>
>so I've created a page on psubs to share some photos with
you.
>
>
>and also the photos will go on the website (www.pilotfishproject.com)?
>and fb (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Projet-Poisson-Pilote/294329844027226)
>
>
>The engineering and fab are progressing fast with Paul and Emile,
so there will be frequent updates.
>
>
>The big week long trip is now set to be around end of May
2015.?
>
>
>Funny thing, the follower boat we are thinking of using from
Plymouth to St Malo may be the one used for the Dday expedition with
Aquarius and Deepworker Phil told about. and when I visited it last
week, the owner was about to throw away a precious underwater acoustics
mast used in that expedition...which I am now hoping to keep for the
underwater acoustic tracking of our sub.
>
>
>
>
>regards,
>Antoine
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 23:54:04 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 20:54:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
In-Reply-To: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1393908844.89287.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Look forward to the updates Antoine.
That was great getting the mast before it was thrown away.
It is amazing how when you step out on a journey things start happening like that.
Perhaps in your design you could incorporate through hulls to retro fit motors &
battery cables once your man powered voyage is finished???
All the best
Alan



________________________________
 From: Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 9:47 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
 


the Pilot Fish project is moving on,?

so I've created a page on psubs to share some photos with you.

and also the photos will go on the website (www.pilotfishproject.com)?
and fb (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Projet-Poisson-Pilote/294329844027226)

The engineering and fab are progressing fast with Paul and Emile, so there will be frequent updates.

The big week long trip is now set to be around end of May 2015.?

Funny thing, the follower boat we are thinking of using from Plymouth to St Malo may be the one used for the Dday expedition with Aquarius and Deepworker Phil told about. and when I visited it last week, the owner was about to throw away a precious underwater acoustics mast used in that expedition...which I am now hoping to keep for the underwater acoustic tracking of our sub.


regards,
Antoine


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar  4 10:47:52 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 07:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
Message-ID: <1393948072.18158.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

After talking with a coupler manufacture, I learned there is a 5 to 10% power loss due to eddy currents.? I don't think it is worth the cost and effort given the depths I will reach.? Just for interest sake, the coupler for 200inlb torque is 1,200 dollars plus the containment shield.
Hank?
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 14:05:45 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 11:05:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
Message-ID: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.
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From cgraca2 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  4 14:58:56 2014
From: cgraca2 at gmail.com (Christopher Graca)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:58:56 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADT3QhDqpEiEecw1QUGyuoqBM9jSxtjoS+14cCrDer3icEePQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nice CAD work Joe. Are the torpedoes planned to house your batteries?

-Chris



On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its
> a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all
> electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I
> hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page.
> Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be
> flown in public.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 15:06:25 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 12:06:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Joe,
are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large?forward view port.
is that correct?
Alan




________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
 


I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 15:07:39 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 12:07:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <1393948072.18158.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393948072.18158.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1393963659.40573.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the update Hank,
glad to know I'm not missing too much by not having them.
Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:47 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
 


After talking with a coupler manufacture, I learned there is a 5 to 10% power loss due to eddy currents.? I don't think it is worth the cost and effort given the depths I will reach.? Just for interest sake, the coupler for 200inlb torque is 1,200 dollars plus the containment shield.
Hank?
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From vbra676539 at aol.com  Tue Mar  4 15:36:16 2014
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 15:36:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <1393963659.40573.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393948072.18158.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963659.40573.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D10600863C08CE-1FDC-4752@webmail-va023.sysops.aol.com>

I wonder what the loss is for running motors in oil, like the DWs, for instance? It might well be that running mag coupled motors in air with their attendant losses could still be more efficient than running compensated motors with shafts, which have their own sort of losses from internal turbulence, seal drag and the like. Not to mention that heat transfer is a whole lot better in air, certainly something to think about with high powered thrusters of the commercial variety. I would think that Dr. Phil took all that into consideration for the Nuyt-screws. Then again, you could just about build a K-250 for what one of those babies would set you back, so look this up under moot point in my case.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Mar 4, 2014 3:08 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler



Thanks for the update Hank,
glad to know I'm not missing too much by not having them.
Alan


  
 
 
 
   From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:47 AM
 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
  
 



After talking with a coupler manufacture, I learned there is a 5 to 10% power loss due to eddy currents.  I don't think it is worth the cost and effort given the depths I will reach.  Just for interest sake, the coupler for 200inlb torque is 1,200 dollars plus the containment shield.
Hank 


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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar  4 15:56:25 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 12:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <8D10600863C08CE-1FDC-4752@webmail-va023.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1393948072.18158.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963659.40573.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D10600863C08CE-1FDC-4752@webmail-va023.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1393966585.86830.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
I would have to say there is more than a 10% loss with oil filled motors.? Dr Nuytten told me the mag motors are way more powerful than the oil filled motors.? I can not afford the power loss, or rather the range loss.? maybe when the new sulfur batteries come on stream the mag couplers will make sense.? The cost is about the same for mag couplers? and mechanical seals, so it becomes a choice between range and guaranteed leak free service, if you have an internal motor.
Hank?



On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:36:16 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
  
I wonder what the loss is for running motors in oil, like the DWs, for instance? It might well be that running mag coupled motors in air with their attendant losses could still be more efficient than running compensated motors with shafts, which have their own sort of losses from internal turbulence, seal drag and the like. Not to mention that heat transfer is a whole lot better in air, certainly something to think about with high powered thrusters of the commercial variety. I would think that Dr. Phil took all that into consideration for the Nuyt-screws. Then again, you could just about build a K-250 for what one of those babies would set you back, so look this up under moot point in my case. 
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Mar 4, 2014 3:08 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler


Thanks for the update Hank, 
glad to know I'm not missing too much by not having them. 
Alan 
 

________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:47 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
  


After talking with a coupler manufacture, I learned there is a 5 to 10% power loss due to eddy currents.? I don't think it is worth the cost and effort given the depths I will reach.? Just for interest sake, the coupler for 200inlb torque is 1,200 dollars plus the containment shield. 
Hank?    
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


      
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles     

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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 16:12:58 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:12:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan / Chris,
?
Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant,?I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration.
?
You can't see it well?in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a?lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports.
?
I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume?centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams.
?
Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit.
?
This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane.


________________________________
From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



Hi Joe,
are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large?forward view port.
is that correct?
Alan




________________________________
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 16:18:41 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:18:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1393967921.4451.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I'm a lousy typist and it would appear my spell checker is not working in Yahoo!
?
Joe


________________________________
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



Alan / Chris,
?
Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant,?I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration.
?
You can't see it well?in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a?lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports.
?
I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume?centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams.
?
Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit.
?
This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane.


________________________________
From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



Hi Joe,
are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large?forward view port.
is that correct?
Alan




________________________________
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar  4 16:40:30 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:40:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393967921.4451.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967921.4451.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1393969230.63281.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
Looks great! is that snow on the sub? :-)
Hank



On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:18:41 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
I'm a lousy typist and it would appear my spell checker is not working in Yahoo! 
? 
Joe 
 

________________________________
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
 


Alan / Chris, 
? 
Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant,?I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration. 
? 
You can't see it well?in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a?lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports. 
? 
I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume?centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams. 
? 
Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit. 
? 
This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane. 
 

________________________________
From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
 


Hi Joe, 
are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached? 
With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more 
in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric. 
It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large?forward view port. 
is that correct? 
Alan 
 
 
 

________________________________
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
 


I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 16:45:04 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:45:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1393969504.68045.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
a motor on the end of the torpedo tube would look great, but would possibly be too low
down making them more of an entanglement danger & more inclined to stir up sediment.
If you want to turn on a pin you would need to put the horizontal thrusters midship.
I am inclined to think Emile & Alec's set up with rotating thrusters midship is a really
good idea. You have your vertical thrusters plus additional horizontal thrusters for more
forward speed, & a back up to get home if your main horizontal thruster fails.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
 


Alan / Chris,
?
Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant,?I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration.
?
You can't see it well?in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a?lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports.
?
I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume?centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams.
?
Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit.
?
This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane.

From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



Hi Joe,
are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large?forward view port.
is that correct?
Alan



From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 16:57:36 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 13:57:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393969504.68045.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1393970256.25003.YahooMailIosMobile@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,<br/><br/>Well, the main idea here is a longer sleeker form to tow through the water. So details like these can certainly be looked at for improvement.<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 17:02:27 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 17:02:27 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393969230.63281.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967921.4451.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393969230.63281.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9EBFC4D6-97E0-4D4A-ACD4-D1B704377903@yahoo.com>

Thanks Hank!

Those are Sea salt crystals! :)

Joe




On Mar 4, 2014, at 4:40 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Joe,
> Looks great! is that snow on the sub? :-)
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:18:41 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm a lousy typist and it would appear my spell checker is not working in Yahoo!
>  
> Joe
> 
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
> 
> Alan / Chris,
>  
> Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant, I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration.
>  
> You can't see it well in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports.
>  
> I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams.
>  
> Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit.
>  
> This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane.
> 
> From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
> 
> Hi Joe,
> are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
> With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
> in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
> It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large forward view port.
> is that correct?
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
> 
> I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From vbra676539 at aol.com  Tue Mar  4 17:13:19 2014
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 17:13:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D1060E153A0A3A-27D0-5900@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com>

Ooh, your manipulator swings both ways? You naughty boy.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Mar 4, 2014 4:13 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more





Alan / Chris,
 
Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant, I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration.
 
You can't see it well in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports.
 
I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams.
 
Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit.
 
This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane.




From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more






Hi Joe,
are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large forward view port.
is that correct?
Alan









From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more




I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 17:21:18 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 17:21:18 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <8D1060E153A0A3A-27D0-5900@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1060E153A0A3A-27D0-5900@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <19E7D772-013C-43F3-9175-FF1457355422@yahoo.com>

Vance,

She's a boat that will sail off South Beach!

Joe



On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:13 PM, vbra676539 at aol.com wrote:

> Ooh, your manipulator swings both ways? You naughty boy.
> Vance
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 4, 2014 4:13 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
> 
> Alan / Chris,
>  
> Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant, I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration.
>  
> You can't see it well in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports.
>  
> I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams.
>  
> Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit.
>  
> This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane.
> 
> From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
> 
> Hi Joe,
> are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
> With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
> in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
> It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large forward view port.
> is that correct?
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
> 
> I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From vbra676539 at aol.com  Tue Mar  4 17:23:28 2014
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 17:23:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <19E7D772-013C-43F3-9175-FF1457355422@yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1393963585.83307.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1393967578.29532.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1060E153A0A3A-27D0-5900@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com>
 <19E7D772-013C-43F3-9175-FF1457355422@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D1060F801D60CD-27D0-5A89@webmail-d150.sysops.aol.com>

Then the top has to come off, bub. It's a rule.



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Mar 4, 2014 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more



Vance,


She's a boat that will sail off South Beach!


Joe




On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:13 PM, vbra676539 at aol.com wrote:



Ooh, your manipulator swings both ways? You naughty boy.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Mar 4, 2014 4:13 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more





Alan / Chris,
 
Yes, the torpedoes do double duty as battery pods. I was told I dont need them with the centerline propulsion unit, and although somewhat redundant, I'm inclined to put low HP propulsion units in isolated 1 ATM cans in the aft end of both. The forward ends would house high power lights for night exploration.
 
You can't see it well in this view, but the forward MBT is open at the bottom, that's a manipulator you see in there that would swing to both sides. The boat's mission requirements are photography/video, small object retrieval, and a lift bag deployment capability. Size of the forward viewport(s) are not yet determined, but forward visibility is hamperred in any case and would need to be supplemented by technology. Note the Gamma inspired side ports.
 
I want this to be able to swing 360 deg within its own length, translate horizontally and vertically with small bursts of thrusters. This means very fine bouyancy control, so a large volume centerline VBT is envisioned. The dive planes are fixed for most ops, used for dynamic dive control at speed and at periscope depth, (a dangerous place to be), the periscope uses micro cams.
 
Forward peak would house cameras and scanning sonar transducer in a housing seperate from the foward MBT. Those are in fact saddle tanks in this view and would be vented together in the sail. Aft MBT would end just forward of the housing that encloses the main propulsion unit.
 
This boat was inspired by the sight of James Franklin's boat hanging on the crane.




From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more






Hi Joe,
are they torpedoes on the side or battery pods with motors attached?
With the upcoming advances in battery densities & prices, it tips the balance a bit more
in favor of just electric over the complications of diesel / electric.
It looks great, however it looks like you don't have a large forward view port.
is that correct?
Alan









From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more




I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Tue Mar  4 19:40:05 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 19:40:05 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1393959945.90394.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6y8kPiNu=-EmUaQrLxMW8yYyRJJQuFExF79JqFxkTpgw@mail.gmail.com>

Wow! As a design exercise I think that is fantastic, a work of art. But I
don't think I'd want to actually show up in US waters with something that
looked quite so much like real torpedoes. Both times I've taken Snoopy to
Florida the coasties have shown up within minutes, and it's great to be in
a boat that's painted fluorescent orange, as it makes it obvious I'm not a
smuggler trying to keep a low profile!

Best,

Alec


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its
> a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all
> electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I
> hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page.
> Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be
> flown in public.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 20:25:43 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 17:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ6y8kPiNu=-EmUaQrLxMW8yYyRJJQuFExF79JqFxkTpgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1393982743.61472.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alec,<br/><br/>I was discussing that very issue with another member. A boat like this one (and it's owner) would undoubtably become "known" in local Coast Guard and State Ranger circles. All I's dotted and T's crossed as appropriate, registration numbers decals, safety equipment, placards, etc.  I also have the benefit of 24 years of Federal service which has given me the experience and patience to deal with all manner of bureaucratic knuckleheads. In the end one would smile sincerely and graciously point out to Agent Smith that this is no different than a replica war bird armed with dummy warheads. That fact, and prudent operations far from sensitive areas would be best.<br/><br/>I'm glad you like it too Alec, thanks! I Like it enough to pursue it further. It solves some issues with a bit of pizazz while concurrently maintaining the basic cylinder and battery pod configuration.<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent
 from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Tue Mar  4 23:08:59 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 23:08:59 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <1393982743.61472.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CABECYQ6y8kPiNu=-EmUaQrLxMW8yYyRJJQuFExF79JqFxkTpgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1393982743.61472.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjn+KHxg2vz-ZR4BALgVf8GaJMVo-xrt-GQX6Wa_1dmc0Rw@mail.gmail.com>

Joe, I too really like your new design. I hadn't actually thought about it
until Alec mentioned it, but he certainly has a good point. The first time
we took Snoopy and the R-300 out into our bay down in the Keys we were
treated to 2 separate visits by both the local Sheriff (who was friendly)
and the Coast Guard (who was not friendly nor un-firendly, just there in
silence). If they got a load of a boat like that they'd sure be all over
you. As you suggest, proper base covering would be essential before any
dive ops. But you get an A+ from me on the design!

What is your target max operating depth and range? ~ Douglas S.


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Alec,
>
> I was discussing that very issue with another member. A boat like this one
> (and it's owner) would undoubtably become "known" in local Coast Guard and
> State Ranger circles. All I's dotted and T's crossed as appropriate,
> registration numbers decals, safety equipment, placards, etc. I also have
> the benefit of 24 years of Federal service which has given me the
> experience and patience to deal with all manner of bureaucratic
> knuckleheads. In the end one would smile sincerely and graciously point out
> to Agent Smith that this is no different than a replica war bird armed with
> dummy warheads. That fact, and prudent operations far from sensitive areas
> would be best.
>
> I'm glad you like it too Alec, thanks! I Like it enough to pursue it
> further. It solves some issues with a bit of pizazz while concurrently
> maintaining the basic cylinder and battery pod configuration.
>
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS>
>
>  ------------------------------
> * From: * Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>;
> * To: * Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
> * Sent: * Wed, Mar 5, 2014 12:40:05 AM
>
>   Wow! As a design exercise I think that is fantastic, a work of art. But
> I don't think I'd want to actually show up in US waters with something that
> looked quite so much like real torpedoes. Both times I've taken Snoopy to
> Florida the coasties have shown up within minutes, and it's great to be in
> a boat that's painted fluorescent orange, as it makes it obvious I'm not a
> smuggler trying to keep a low profile!
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its
>> a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes
>> all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch.
>> I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page.
>> Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be
>> flown in public.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Tue Mar  4 23:32:59 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 20:32:59 -0800
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
Message-ID: <20140304203259.52A7DBB2@m0005309.ppops.net>

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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 07:12:07 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 04:12:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjn+KHxg2vz-ZR4BALgVf8GaJMVo-xrt-GQX6Wa_1dmc0Rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABECYQ6y8kPiNu=-EmUaQrLxMW8yYyRJJQuFExF79JqFxkTpgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1393982743.61472.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOGJjn+KHxg2vz-ZR4BALgVf8GaJMVo-xrt-GQX6Wa_1dmc0Rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394021527.11355.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi Douglas,

250' operating depth, endurance exceeding K-350 due to increased battery capacity and nearly same size electrical loads. The pods have space for dedicated house loads for ventilation / AC, Nav, etc. She will still be towed to site. I figure I should want 4 - 5 one hour dives out of a day max, then charge at night?? Maybe?, I don't know haven't been out there with you guys.

Something like this would no doubt pull attention, some of it maybe negative. Perhaps close to finishing a build like this one could contact the public affairs officers at the Miami CG Base, and State Park Authorities etc, in order to break the ice, and or announce ops in advance? This design doesn't quite work without the torpedoes and camo scheme. Ix-nay on the swastika flag of course, that would be replaced by an international "under tow flag" while towed, and a divers flag for ops.

I would imagine that Sheriffs, Park Rangers, and Coasties would all be curious and fascinated as well with any PSUB. Someone good at their job can assess the situation appropriately within minutes. In a pinch and the extreme circumstance of anyone inappropriately exceeding their authority on site would get immediate compliance from me while concurrently hearing the words Federal Retiree and US Navy Veteran as I right down the name. We do after all have the right of "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" so long as that pursuit does not impede on the common good, or rights of others.

Glad you like it Douglas, Thanks!

Joe





On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 11:10 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:
 
Joe, I too really like your new design. I hadn't actually thought about it until Alec mentioned it, but he certainly has a good point. The first time we took Snoopy and the R-300 out into our bay down in the Keys we were treated to 2 separate visits by both the local Sheriff (who was friendly) and the Coast Guard (who was not friendly nor un-firendly, just there in silence). If they got a load of a boat like that they'd sure be all over you. As you suggest, proper base covering would be essential before any dive ops. But you get an A+ from me on the design!

What is your target max operating depth and range? ~ Douglas S.?



On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

Alec,
>
>I was discussing that very issue with another member. A boat like this one (and it's owner) would undoubtably become "known" in local Coast Guard and State Ranger circles. All I's dotted and T's crossed as appropriate, registration numbers decals, safety equipment, placards, etc.  I also have the benefit of 24 years of Federal service which has given me the experience and patience to deal with all manner of bureaucratic knuckleheads. In the end one would smile sincerely and graciously point out to Agent Smith that this is no different than a replica war bird armed with dummy warheads. That fact, and prudent operations far from sensitive areas would be best.
>
>I'm glad you like it too Alec, thanks! I Like it enough to pursue it further. It solves some issues with a bit of pizazz while concurrently maintaining the basic cylinder and battery pod
 configuration.
>
>
>Joe
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From:  Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>; 
>To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
>
>Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alvin Jr is no more 
>Sent:  Wed, Mar 5, 2014 12:40:05 AM 
>
>
>
>Wow! As a design exercise I think that is fantastic, a work of art. But I don't think I'd want to actually show up in US waters with something that looked quite so much like real torpedoes. Both times I've taken Snoopy to Florida the coasties have shown up within minutes, and it's great to be in a boat that's painted fluorescent orange, as it makes it obvious I'm not a smuggler trying to keep a low profile!
>
>
>Best,
>
>Alec
>
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I've been working on a more tow able friendly concept for some time. Its a reduced scale Seehund replica @ 18' length with a 36" OD hull. Shes all electric (No Diesel) and she sure looks pretty in this concept sketch. I hope it comes through because I am unable to add it to my project page. Incidentally, the Kriegsmarine flag is for image effect and would not be flown in public.
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
> 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From pilotfishp at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 07:30:19 2014
From: pilotfishp at gmail.com (Antoine Delafargue)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 12:30:19 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
In-Reply-To: <1393908844.89287.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1393908844.89287.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOajxnEEcgnVtbVuiE53AEERJQC4mfDAF3kmcNr4TZimUKACyA@mail.gmail.com>

Alan,
We have not thought about retrofit yet. the sub may stay for a year in
exhibits. if we did we d just need an electric motor inside the cabin as
the prop shaft will be inside.

other thing we did last week end: visit the IFREMER submersibles facility
in Toulon, the folks there will help us with camera and lighting equipment.

we saw the Nautile too. quite a nice visit. They don t publicize a lot but
they ve done quite a lot of nice prototypes.

regards
antoine


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:54 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Look forward to the updates Antoine.
> That was great getting the mast before it was thrown away.
> It is amazing how when you step out on a journey things start happening
> like that.
> Perhaps in your design you could incorporate through hulls to retro fit
> motors &
> battery cables once your man powered voyage is finished???
> All the best
> Alan
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 4, 2014 9:47 AM
>
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
>
> the Pilot Fish project is moving on,
>
> so I've created a page on psubs to share some photos with you.
>
> and also the photos will go on the website (www.pilotfishproject.com)
> and fb (
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Projet-Poisson-Pilote/294329844027226)
>
> The engineering and fab are progressing fast with Paul and Emile, so there
> will be frequent updates.
>
> The big week long trip is now set to be around end of May 2015.
>
> Funny thing, the follower boat we are thinking of using from Plymouth to
> St Malo may be the one used for the Dday expedition with Aquarius and
> Deepworker Phil told about. and when I visited it last week, the owner was
> about to throw away a precious underwater acoustics mast used in that
> expedition...which I am now hoping to keep for the underwater acoustic
> tracking of our sub.
>
>
> regards,
> Antoine
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 13:15:21 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:15:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaHunter?
Message-ID: <1394043321.41636.YahooMailNeo@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

OK here she is, this is what I want! In the intervening six years to retirement I'll finalize the details. Already been at this for 8, so what's another six!

In this image I shifted the torpedo bumpers into proper position and added regulation registration numbers and the sticker, (block lettering 3" high per regulations for non-documented vessels. Also, a less offensive Ensign from the late 1800's. 


What I do need to find out, is whether or not there is any regulatory requirement for placarding, marking, or otherwise painting dummy ordnance, at this point I don't know for certain and would be guessing. What does one do with the depth charges on that PT-109 replica?

What do I name this? Obviously Alvin Jr is no longer appropriate, Kaiser Bill?, Sea Hunter?, Ba Ba Buoy?

Joe
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Mar  5 13:32:50 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:32:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaHunter?
In-Reply-To: <1394043321.41636.YahooMailNeo@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394043321.41636.YahooMailNeo@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394044370.53800.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
Your torpedo blocks your view from the port.? Looks good!
Hank?



On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 11:15:45 AM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
OK here she is, this is what I want! In the intervening six years to retirement I'll finalize the details. Already been at this for 8, so what's another six!

In this image I shifted the torpedo bumpers into proper position and added regulation registration numbers and the sticker, (block lettering 3" high per regulations for non-documented vessels. Also, a less offensive Ensign from the late 1800's. 


What I do need to find out, is whether or not there is any regulatory requirement for placarding, marking, or otherwise painting dummy ordnance, at this point I don't know for certain and would be guessing. What does one do with the depth charges on that PT-109 replica?

What do I name this? Obviously Alvin Jr is no longer appropriate, Kaiser Bill?, Sea Hunter?, Ba Ba Buoy?

Joe

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 14:25:43 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 11:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaHunter?
In-Reply-To: <1394044370.53800.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394047543.65529.YahooMailIosMobile@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Good eye Hank! <br/><br/>Those need to be rotated a few degrees. This is an initial concept sketch, external surfaces and volume calcs. Still need to do detail design work and W&B / Stability calcs.<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Mar  5 16:58:39 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 13:58:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mag coupler
Message-ID: <1394056719.43582.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

An update to magnetic coupler efficiency, if a titanium barrier is used the power loss is 350w or 5%.? The coupler manufacturer offers this barrier for 2,000 dollars.? A? stainless barrier? has a power loss of 10% and costs 500 dollars.? Total cost is 3,200 dollars for a magnetic coupler? with a power loss of 5%.
The Nuyt screw of coarse uses a titanium barrier.
Hank
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 20:08:24 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 17:08:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
Message-ID: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Psubbers,
Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili bins.
They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8" ?thick with two wires coming off them.?
The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side gets hot & the other cold.
The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the heat from the hot side.
In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By switching polarity you have a heater.
The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than traditional refrigeration units,?
however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off between the additional battery size & expense
to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air conditioning unit & it's associated through
hull heat exchange unit .
The heating faze is more economical.?
G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
Thanks
Alan
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 20:24:52 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:24:52 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D printed scrubber
Message-ID: <CABECYQ4ONan5ogrezSDxwXrpVGCxR6bmk3nTVohvJ7Mz0jMCoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

The last few months were so cold in the garage, I found something to do at
my desk instead. I've just created a new "project" on the projects page for
this little initiative. I printed two scrubbers for the new sub. As its a
two person and the scrubbers have provisions for lung-power backup, it made
sense to provide each crew member with his own. Although of course the
lung-power option is a pretty dire last recourse. If a fan failed on one of
the scrubbers, the surviving one should have no difficulty keeping up - its
just that it would need refilling in half the time. BTW these are small
because I like carrying most of the scrubbing agent in sealed containers,
but if one wanted a larger scrubber, its very easy to increase the length
of the cylinder while keeping all the printed parts the same.

Best,

Alec
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Mar  5 20:33:14 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 17:33:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D printed scrubber
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ4ONan5ogrezSDxwXrpVGCxR6bmk3nTVohvJ7Mz0jMCoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABECYQ4ONan5ogrezSDxwXrpVGCxR6bmk3nTVohvJ7Mz0jMCoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394069594.95558.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alec,
What is it under, I can't find it.
Hank



On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:25:14 PM, Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
  
Hi all,

The last few months were so cold in the garage, I found something to do at my desk instead. I've just created a new "project" on the projects page for this little initiative. I printed two scrubbers for the new sub. As its a two person and the scrubbers have provisions for lung-power backup, it made sense to provide each crew member with his own. Although of course the lung-power option is a pretty dire last recourse. If a fan failed on one of the scrubbers, the surviving one should have no difficulty keeping up - its just that it would need refilling in half the time. BTW these are small because I like carrying most of the scrubbing agent in sealed containers, but if one wanted a larger scrubber, its very easy to increase the length of the cylinder while keeping all the printed parts the same. 

Best,

Alec
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 20:56:36 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Private)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:56:36 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D printed scrubber
In-Reply-To: <1394069594.95558.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CABECYQ4ONan5ogrezSDxwXrpVGCxR6bmk3nTVohvJ7Mz0jMCoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394069594.95558.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40D45056-00AF-434F-8926-A62F88C2C05C@gmail.com>

Sort by submitter / Alec Smyth



> On Mar 5, 2014, at 8:33 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Alec,
> What is it under, I can't find it.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:25:14 PM, Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> The last few months were so cold in the garage, I found something to do at my desk instead. I've just created a new "project" on the projects page for this little initiative. I printed two scrubbers for the new sub. As its a two person and the scrubbers have provisions for lung-power backup, it made sense to provide each crew member with his own. Although of course the lung-power option is a pretty dire last recourse. If a fan failed on one of the scrubbers, the surviving one should have no difficulty keeping up - its just that it would need refilling in half the time. BTW these are small because I like carrying most of the scrubbing agent in sealed containers, but if one wanted a larger scrubber, its very easy to increase the length of the cylinder while keeping all the printed parts the same.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Alec
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From piolenc at archivale.com  Wed Mar  5 21:13:48 2014
From: piolenc at archivale.com (Marc de Piolenc)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 10:13:48 +0800
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>

There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
personal submersibles mailing list 
(international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.

Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
device produces heat of its own.
Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You have to learn certain key 
characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.

Marc de Piolenc

On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
> Hi Psubbers,
> Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
> conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
> I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
> For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
> units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili bins.
> They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"  thick with two wires coming off them.
> The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
> gets hot & the other cold.
> The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
> heat from the hot side.
> In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
> switching polarity you have a heater.
> The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
> traditional refrigeration units,
> however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
> between the additional battery size & expense
> to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
> conditioning unit & it's associated through
> hull heat exchange unit .
> The heating faze is more economical.
> G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 21:57:30 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 21:57:30 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D printed scrubber
In-Reply-To: <40D45056-00AF-434F-8926-A62F88C2C05C@gmail.com>
References: <CABECYQ4ONan5ogrezSDxwXrpVGCxR6bmk3nTVohvJ7Mz0jMCoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394069594.95558.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <40D45056-00AF-434F-8926-A62F88C2C05C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnLW2uHCctJxLocsZXhodfhnsJ0=ZayM4zrovwXWYQO06Q@mail.gmail.com>

Alec, very nice job. I've been thinking about investing in a 3-D printer
myself, especially after seeing some very practical applications like this
one. The emergency flex-hose for breathing back-up is great and the way you
have it stowed looks very convenient. ~ Douglas S.


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:56 PM, Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sort by submitter / Alec Smyth
>
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2014, at 8:33 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> Alec,
> What is it under, I can't find it.
> Hank
>
>
>   On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:25:14 PM, Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>
> The last few months were so cold in the garage, I found something to do at
> my desk instead. I've just created a new "project" on the projects page for
> this little initiative. I printed two scrubbers for the new sub. As its a
> two person and the scrubbers have provisions for lung-power backup, it made
> sense to provide each crew member with his own. Although of course the
> lung-power option is a pretty dire last recourse. If a fan failed on one of
> the scrubbers, the surviving one should have no difficulty keeping up - its
> just that it would need refilling in half the time. BTW these are small
> because I like carrying most of the scrubbing agent in sealed containers,
> but if one wanted a larger scrubber, its very easy to increase the length
> of the cylinder while keeping all the printed parts the same.
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 21:57:34 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 18:57:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
Message-ID: <1394074654.96219.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Marc,
I am looking at maintaining 24C ?(75F) in the hull. As a starting point for heat dissipation experiments I?
came up with an average sea?surface temperature of 17C (62.6F). Although sea temperatures can get?
up to 36 C in the Persian Gulf.
I will probably end up filling a bath with water at 24C & floating an aluminium enclosure with

the peltier cooler stuck to the bottom in it to see what temperature the cold side maintains.
Also of importance is the peltier's ?ability to be used as a dehumidifier.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 6, 2014 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
 

There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
personal submersibles mailing list 
(international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.

Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
device produces heat of its own.
Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You have to learn certain key 
characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.

Marc de Piolenc

On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
> Hi Psubbers,
> Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
> conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
> I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
> For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
> units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili bins.
> They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"? thick with two wires coming off them.
> The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
> gets hot & the other cold.
> The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
> heat from the hot side.
> In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
> switching polarity you have a heater.
> The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
> traditional refrigeration units,
> however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
> between the additional battery size & expense
> to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
> conditioning unit & it's associated through
> hull heat exchange unit .
> The heating faze is more economical.
> G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

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From k6fee at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 22:09:15 2014
From: k6fee at yahoo.com (keith tollett)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:09:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
Message-ID: <1394075355.64697.YahooMailNeo@web120405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,

U.S. Military subs use this for climate control. Don't want any noxious refrigerants loose in a closed environment. No moving parts, though they do eat a lot of power (not an issue on nuke boats).

Keith





On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:22 PM, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:
 
There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
personal submersibles mailing list 
(international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.

Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
device produces heat of its own.
Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You have to learn certain key 
characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.

Marc de Piolenc

On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
> Hi Psubbers,
> Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
> conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
> I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
> For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
> units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili bins.
> They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"? thick with two wires coming off them.
> The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
> gets hot & the other cold.
> The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
> heat from the hot side.
> In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
> switching polarity you have a heater.
> The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
> traditional refrigeration units,
> however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
> between the additional battery size & expense
> to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
> conditioning unit & it's associated through
> hull heat exchange unit .
> The heating faze is more economical.
> G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 22:17:49 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:17:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
In-Reply-To: <CAOajxnEEcgnVtbVuiE53AEERJQC4mfDAF3kmcNr4TZimUKACyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOajxnEwrDPWOJ-LNOje4efaSr1a4cc7aCeNdH=11xTeD4T1QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1393908844.89287.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOajxnEEcgnVtbVuiE53AEERJQC4mfDAF3kmcNr4TZimUKACyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394075869.41488.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Antoine,
I tried to get to the Ifremer facility last year when I was in Marseilles.
I drove from Marseilles to Toulon but it all got a bit hard. Everyone was driving on the
wrong side of the road& the signs were in French.?
That is great getting the cameras & lighting, that would be worth quite a bit.
Well done.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 6, 2014 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
 


Alan,
We have not thought about retrofit yet. the sub may stay for a year in exhibits. if we did we d just need an electric motor inside the cabin as the prop shaft will be inside.

other thing we did last week end: visit the IFREMER submersibles facility in Toulon, the folks there will help us with camera and lighting equipment.?

we saw the Nautile too. quite a nice visit. They don t publicize a lot but they ve done quite a lot of nice prototypes.


regards
antoine



On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:54 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Look forward to the updates Antoine.
>That was great getting the mast before it was thrown away.
>It is amazing how when you step out on a journey things start happening like that.
>Perhaps in your design you could incorporate through hulls to retro fit motors &
>battery cables once your man powered voyage is finished???
>All the best
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> 
>From: Antoine Delafargue <pilotfishp at gmail.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 9:47 AM
>
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pilot Fish Project
>
>
>
>the Pilot Fish project is moving on,?
>
>
>so I've created a page on psubs to share some photos with you.
>
>
>and also the photos will go on the website (www.pilotfishproject.com)?
>and fb (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Projet-Poisson-Pilote/294329844027226)
>
>
>The engineering and fab are progressing fast with Paul and Emile, so there will be frequent updates.
>
>
>The big week long trip is now set to be around end of May 2015.?
>
>
>Funny thing, the follower boat we are thinking of using from Plymouth to St Malo may be the one used for the Dday expedition with Aquarius and Deepworker Phil told about. and when I visited it last week, the owner was about to throw away a precious underwater acoustics mast used in that expedition...which I am now hoping to keep for the underwater acoustic tracking of our sub.
>
>
>
>
>regards,
>Antoine
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 22:47:51 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:47:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D printed scrubber
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ4ONan5ogrezSDxwXrpVGCxR6bmk3nTVohvJ7Mz0jMCoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABECYQ4ONan5ogrezSDxwXrpVGCxR6bmk3nTVohvJ7Mz0jMCoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394077671.43840.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Well done Alec, I'm very impressed.
Like Doug, I'm keen to buy a 3D printer some time. I'm holding off till my Cad
skills improve. I've put your link here.
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/printedscrubber/

Alan

________________________________
 From: Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 6, 2014 2:24 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D printed scrubber
 


Hi all,

The last few months were so cold in the garage, I found something to do at my desk instead. I've just created a new "project" on the projects page for this little initiative. I printed two scrubbers for the new sub. As its a two person and the scrubbers have provisions for lung-power backup, it made sense to provide each crew member with his own. Although of course the lung-power option is a pretty dire last recourse. If a fan failed on one of the scrubbers, the surviving one should have no difficulty keeping up - its just that it would need refilling in half the time. BTW these are small because I like carrying most of the scrubbing agent in sealed containers, but if one wanted a larger scrubber, its very easy to increase the length of the cylinder while keeping all the printed parts the same.

Best,

Alec
_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 22:50:08 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 19:50:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <1394075355.64697.YahooMailNeo@web120405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
 <1394075355.64697.YahooMailNeo@web120405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394077808.34010.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Keith,
that's an encouragement to know that they operate them on a large scale
like that.
Alan


________________________________
 From: keith tollett <k6fee at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
 


Alan,

U.S. Military subs use this for climate control. Don't want any noxious refrigerants loose in a closed environment. No moving parts, though they do eat a lot of power (not an issue on nuke boats).

Keith





On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:22 PM, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:
 
There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
personal submersibles mailing list 
(international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.

Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
device produces heat of its own.
Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You have to learn certain key 
characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.

Marc de Piolenc

On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
> Hi Psubbers,
> Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
> conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
> I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
> For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
> units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili
 bins.
> They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"? thick with two wires coming off them.
> The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
> gets hot & the other cold.
> The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
> heat from the hot side.
> In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
> switching polarity you have a heater.
> The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
> traditional refrigeration units,
> however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
> between the additional battery size & expense
> to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
> conditioning unit & it's associated through
> hull heat exchange unit .
> The heating faze is more economical.
> G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 23:02:46 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 23:02:46 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <1394077808.34010.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
 <1394075355.64697.YahooMailNeo@web120405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394077808.34010.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D393065F-1F32-4A3E-8D05-93353022EFC8@yahoo.com>

Yes, very interesting. I also have a more than passing interest in climate control.

Joe


On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:50 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks Keith,
> that's an encouragement to know that they operate them on a large scale
> like that.
> Alan
> 
> From: keith tollett <k6fee at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
> 
> Alan,
> 
> U.S. Military subs use this for climate control. Don't want any noxious refrigerants loose in a closed environment. No moving parts, though they do eat a lot of power (not an issue on nuke boats).
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:22 PM, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:
> There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
> personal submersibles mailing list 
> (international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.
> 
> Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
> otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
> another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
> device produces heat of its own.
> Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
> current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
> routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
> and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You have to learn certain key 
> characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
> I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
> better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.
> 
> Marc de Piolenc
> 
> On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
> > Hi Psubbers,
> > Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
> > conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
> > I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
> > For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
> > units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili bins.
> > They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"  thick with two wires coming off them.
> > The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
> > gets hot & the other cold.
> > The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
> > heat from the hot side.
> > In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
> > switching polarity you have a heater.
> > The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
> > traditional refrigeration units,
> > however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
> > between the additional battery size & expense
> > to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
> > conditioning unit & it's associated through
> > hull heat exchange unit .
> > The heating faze is more economical.
> > G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
> > Thanks
> > Alan
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
> 
> -- 
> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From k6fee at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  6 13:50:47 2014
From: k6fee at yahoo.com (keith tollett)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 10:50:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <D393065F-1F32-4A3E-8D05-93353022EFC8@yahoo.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
 <1394075355.64697.YahooMailNeo@web120405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394077808.34010.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <D393065F-1F32-4A3E-8D05-93353022EFC8@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394131847.90828.YahooMailNeo@web120406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,

Forgot to mention that those thermoelectric modules can be pulse width modulated to make their current drain much more manageable and still accomplish climate and humidity control. There would be a fan needed on the air side, and the other could be directly attached to the steel hull with thermal grease. That would make a very efficent heat/cold sink, and eliminate another fan. There are comercial pic controlers on Evil-Bay for under $50, or if your handy with a soldering iron, you can make your own.

Keith





On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Yes, very interesting. I also have a more than passing interest in climate control.

Joe



On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:50 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:


Thanks Keith,
>that's an encouragement to know that they operate them on a large scale
>like that.
>Alan
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: keith tollett <k6fee at yahoo.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: 
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
> 
>
>
>Alan,
>
>U.S. Military subs use this for climate control. Don't want any noxious refrigerants loose in a closed environment. No moving parts, though they do eat a lot of power (not an issue on nuke boats).
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:22 PM, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:
> 
>There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
>personal submersibles mailing list 
>(international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.
>
>Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
>otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
>another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
>device produces heat of its own.
>Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
>current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
>routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
>and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You
 have to learn certain key 
>characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
>I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
>better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.
>
>Marc de Piolenc
>
>On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
>> Hi Psubbers,
>> Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
>> conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
>> I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
>> For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
>> units like
 computers, electrical cabinets & chili
 bins.
>> They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"? thick with two wires coming off them.
>> The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
>> gets hot & the other cold.
>> The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
>> heat from the hot side.
>> In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
>> switching polarity you have a heater.
>> The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
>> traditional refrigeration units,
>> however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
>> between the additional battery size & expense
>> to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
>> conditioning unit & it's associated through
>> hull heat exchange unit .
>> The heating faze is more economical.
>> G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
>> Thanks
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>-- 
>Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
>Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
>Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
>Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
>Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  6 14:59:15 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 08:59:15 +1300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <1394131847.90828.YahooMailNeo@web120406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
 <1394075355.64697.YahooMailNeo@web120405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394077808.34010.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <D393065F-1F32-4A3E-8D05-93353022EFC8@yahoo.com>
 <1394131847.90828.YahooMailNeo@web120406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <402F02E9-538C-498A-9C68-5A1B02D1D39A@yahoo.com>

Hi Keith,
someone else suggested PWM but I read that they don't like being
switched on & off frequently. There will need to be a thermostat in the
loop with I imagine long dwell times between on & off once the temperature
gets close to target temperature. Most modules I've seen work well off 12V,
so that will make things easy.
Yes I intend using the lower part of the hull as a heat sink.
Have you recently joined the Psub email blog or have you been out there for
a while. 
Regards Alan


Sent from my iPad

> On 7/03/2014, at 7:50 am, keith tollett <k6fee at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> 
> Forgot to mention that those thermoelectric modules can be pulse width modulated to make their current drain much more manageable and still accomplish climate and humidity control. There would be a fan needed on the air side, and the other could be directly attached to the steel hull with thermal grease. That would make a very efficent heat/cold sink, and eliminate another fan. There are comercial pic controlers on Evil-Bay for under $50, or if your handy with a soldering iron, you can make your own.
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes, very interesting. I also have a more than passing interest in climate control.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
>> On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:50 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Keith,
>> that's an encouragement to know that they operate them on a large scale
>> like that.
>> Alan
>> 
>> From: keith tollett <k6fee at yahoo.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: 
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
>> 
>> Alan,
>> 
>> U.S. Military subs use this for climate control. Don't want any noxious refrigerants loose in a closed environment. No moving parts, though they do eat a lot of power (not an issue on nuke boats).
>> 
>> Keith
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:22 PM, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:
>> There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
>> personal submersibles mailing list 
>> (international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.
>> 
>> Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
>> otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
>> another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
>> device produces heat of its own.
>> Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
>> current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
>> routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
>> and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You have to learn certain key 
>> characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
>> I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
>> better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.
>> 
>> Marc de Piolenc
>> 
>> On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
>> > Hi Psubbers,
>> > Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
>> > conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
>> > I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
>> > For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
>> > units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili bins.
>> > They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"  thick with two wires coming off them.
>> > The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
>> > gets hot & the other cold.
>> > The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
>> > heat from the hot side.
>> > In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
>> > switching polarity you have a heater.
>> > The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
>> > traditional refrigeration units,
>> > however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
>> > between the additional battery size & expense
>> > to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
>> > conditioning unit & it's associated through
>> > hull heat exchange unit .
>> > The heating faze is more economical.
>> > G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
>> > Thanks
>> > Alan
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >
>> 
>> -- 
>> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
>> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
>> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
>> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
>> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From wmartindale at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar  6 15:30:18 2014
From: wmartindale at cfl.rr.com (Ken Martindale)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 15:30:18 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <402F02E9-538C-498A-9C68-5A1B02D1D39A@yahoo.com>
References: <1394068104.39685.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <5317D9DC.5040501@archivale.com>
 <1394075355.64697.YahooMailNeo@web120405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394077808.34010.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <D393065F-1F32-4A3E-8D05-93353022EFC8@yahoo.com>
 <1394131847.90828.YahooMailNeo@web120406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <402F02E9-538C-498A-9C68-5A1B02D1D39A@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <023b01cf397a$e42f6b60$ac8e4220$@rr.com>

I did some research on the Thermocouples. You can PWM them quite nicely if your PWM frequency is high. The problem is that slow PWM frequencies allow slow temperature changes which tends to degrade the Thermocouple.

 

Most switchers operate at high frequencies at 50 kHz and higher which eliminates the temperature fluctuations.

 

Good luck with whatever you do,

 

Ken Martindale

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 2:59 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning

 

Hi Keith,

someone else suggested PWM but I read that they don't like being

switched on & off frequently. There will need to be a thermostat in the

loop with I imagine long dwell times between on & off once the temperature

gets close to target temperature. Most modules I've seen work well off 12V,

so that will make things easy.

Yes I intend using the lower part of the hull as a heat sink.

Have you recently joined the Psub email blog or have you been out there for

a while. 

Regards Alan

 


Sent from my iPad


On 7/03/2014, at 7:50 am, keith tollett <k6fee at yahoo.com> wrote:

Alan,

Forgot to mention that those thermoelectric modules can be pulse width modulated to make their current drain much more manageable and still accomplish climate and humidity control. There would be a fan needed on the air side, and the other could be directly attached to the steel hull with thermal grease. That would make a very efficent heat/cold sink, and eliminate another fan. There are comercial pic controlers on Evil-Bay for under $50, or if your handy with a soldering iron, you can make your own.

Keith

 

 

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:05 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes, very interesting. I also have a more than passing interest in climate control.

 

Joe


On Mar 5, 2014, at 10:50 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks Keith,

that's an encouragement to know that they operate them on a large scale

like that.

Alan

 


  _____  


From: keith tollett <k6fee at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thermoelectric air conditioning

 

Alan,

U.S. Military subs use this for climate control. Don't want any noxious refrigerants loose in a closed environment. No moving parts, though they do eat a lot of power (not an issue on nuke boats).

Keith

 

 

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 6:22 PM, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:

There's an active discussion of Peltier devices ongoing on the other 
personal submersibles mailing list 
(international_psubs_minisubs at yahoogroups.com). You might want to join it.

Quick points: you still need some way to dump heat outside the boat, 
otherwise you're just moving heat from one point you want to cool, to 
another that can't afford to get any hotter. And of course the Peltier 
device produces heat of its own.
Which leads to the second key point, namely that there is an optimum 
current for heat pumping, and for some reason the manufacturers 
routinely rate their modules for a voltage that gives a higher current, 
and thus poor heat pumping efficiency. You have to learn certain key 
characteristics of your unit and come up with your own rating. The unit 
I fooled with back in the States was rated at 12 volts, but worked much 
better with an 8-ohm resistor in series.

Marc de Piolenc

On 3/6/2014 9:08 AM, Alan James wrote:
> Hi Psubbers,
> Has anyone looked at thermoelectric coolers (peltier devices) for air
> conditioning / dehumidifying & heating.
> I'm hopeful someone might be able to save me a bit of research.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
> For those who aren't familiar, they are normally used to cool small
> units like computers, electrical cabinets & chili bins.
> They are about 1&1/2" square & 1/8"  thick with two wires coming off them.
> The unit I have is 60W & operates off 12-15V. When powered up, one side
> gets hot & the other cold.
> The cooling effectiveness is regulated by how well you can dissipate the
> heat from the hot side.
> In the submersible application the hull can act as the heat sink. By
> switching polarity you have a heater.
> The down side is that you use about 3 times more power for cooling than
> traditional refrigeration units,
> however an air conditioning unit is bulky, & it would be a trade off
> between the additional battery size & expense
> to run the peltier cooler as apposed to the bulk & expense of an air
> conditioning unit & it's associated through
> hull heat exchange unit .
> The heating faze is more economical.
> G.L. require air conditioning & humidity control in submersibles.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

-- 
Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar  7 16:20:57 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 13:20:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic drive
Message-ID: <1394227257.45156.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I have decided to buy a magnetic drive coupler for Gamma.? I have been in touch with a psubber that? can make a titanium barrier to suit.? I figure a 5% loss at max rpm is worth the peace of mind.? ?I will have the coupler in about a week, I am pretty darn pleased about this :-) 
Hank
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Mar 10 11:58:06 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 08:58:06 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
Message-ID: <20140310085806.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6bdf898dbe.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From kocpnt at tds.net  Mon Mar 10 12:33:34 2014
From: kocpnt at tds.net (kocpnt tds.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 11:33:34 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
In-Reply-To: <20140310085806.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6bdf898dbe.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140310085806.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6bdf898dbe.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwUSGShBvcVzP0qdv9oE_VkHQJhjPkiVvxSUr1qOha9gPOg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

I just used two terminals from a 30 amp. 220 volt plug and wired one plug
to the charger. I'm assuming that the plugs will be inside the Sub however.
How will you vent the pods?

Best Regards,

Jim K


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Hey guys. I am trying to prep my sub for the West Virginia trip. One of
> the things on my list is to make it so I can charge the batteries without
> opening the pods. The connection to the pods is a XXL pipe with a cap and
> the opening is 1.10". I would like to hook up each battery (positive and
> negative) wire and some form of plug. This plug would need to be a male and
> female with two prongs (positive and negative for each 12V battery). One
> plug on the battery wire side which would fit in the 1.10" hole and the
> other plug on the charger side rather the alligator clips. I have seen
> plugs like this on golf carts and floor cleaning machines. Any idea where
> to get them? They need to be able to handle 20amps
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Mar 10 15:21:21 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:21:21 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
Message-ID: <lysfwriytpmy2b026bvtvcqi.1394479226008@email.android.com>

I never thought of regular AC plugs. To easy! Haha
The batterys will vent out of the same hole the charging cords come out of.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"kocpnt tds.net" <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:Hi Scott,

I just used two terminals from a 30 amp. 220 volt plug and wired one plug to the charger. I'm assuming that the plugs will be inside the Sub however. How will you vent the pods?

Best Regards,

Jim K?


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Hey guys. I am trying to prep my sub for the West Virginia trip. One of the things on my list is to make it so I can charge the batteries without opening the pods. The connection to the pods is a XXL pipe with a cap and the opening is 1.10". I would like to hook up each battery (positive and negative) wire and some form of plug. This plug would need to be a male and female with two prongs (positive and negative for each 12V battery). One plug on the battery wire side which would fit in the 1.10" hole and the other plug on the charger side rather the alligator clips. I have seen plugs like this on golf carts and floor cleaning machines. Any idea where to get them? They need to be able to handle 20amps
Thanks,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From wmartindale at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 10 15:33:13 2014
From: wmartindale at cfl.rr.com (Ken Martindale)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:33:13 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
In-Reply-To: <lysfwriytpmy2b026bvtvcqi.1394479226008@email.android.com>
References: <lysfwriytpmy2b026bvtvcqi.1394479226008@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <009701cf3c97$943d3040$bcb790c0$@rr.com>

Gotta tell this story.

 

We designed and built a 900 watt undersea light with a series of wet Ni-cads. You had to take the case apart for charging so there was plenty of ventilation.

 

Got a call from the customer about a year later saying the unit had exploded with no personal injuries at 112 feet. Turns out the customer had installed a waterproof connector for charging the light

without taking the case apart. He had used it several times before, the gasses built up and it ignited at 112 feet. After this the case was taken apart during charging

And no more problems.

 

Moral to the story: Make sure you have plenty of ventilation when charging wet (flooded) cells as well as no spark sources in the battery pods.

 

Ken Martindale

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help

 

I never thought of regular AC plugs. To easy! Haha

The batterys will vent out of the same hole the charging cords come out of. 

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


"kocpnt tds.net" <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:

Hi Scott,

 

I just used two terminals from a 30 amp. 220 volt plug and wired one plug to the charger. I'm assuming that the plugs will be inside the Sub however. How will you vent the pods?

 

Best Regards,

 

Jim K 

 

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Hey guys. I am trying to prep my sub for the West Virginia trip. One of the things on my list is to make it so I can charge the batteries without opening the pods. The connection to the pods is a XXL pipe with a cap and the opening is 1.10". I would like to hook up each battery (positive and negative) wire and some form of plug. This plug would need to be a male and female with two prongs (positive and negative for each 12V battery). One plug on the battery wire side which would fit in the 1.10" hole and the other plug on the charger side rather the alligator clips. I have seen plugs like this on golf carts and floor cleaning machines. Any idea where to get them? They need to be able to handle 20amps

Thanks,

Scott Waters


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Mar 10 15:41:50 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:41:50 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
Message-ID: <pikh7dvkvancakoanb43tges.1394480288028@email.android.com>

Good to be aware of. I am using AGM batteries. The vent hole is the one spec in the Kitteredge blue prints. It is hydrogen gas that is the danger right? This gas is lighter than air and will go out of the vent hole on the top of the pod right? The charging will be done on the surface with the hatch open. That should be good enough right? Never hurts to double check that I am being safe.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneKen Martindale <wmartindale at cfl.rr.com> wrote:Gotta tell this story.
?
We designed and built a 900 watt undersea light with a series of wet Ni-cads. You had to take the case apart for charging so there was plenty of ventilation.
?
Got a call from the customer about a year later saying the unit had exploded with no personal injuries at 112 feet. Turns out the customer had installed a waterproof connector for charging the light
without taking the case apart. He had used it several times before, the gasses built up and it ignited at 112 feet. After this the case was taken apart during charging
And no more problems.
?
Moral to the story: Make sure you have plenty of ventilation when charging wet (flooded) cells as well as no spark sources in the battery pods.
?
Ken Martindale
?
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
?
I never thought of regular AC plugs. To easy! Haha
The batterys will vent out of the same hole the charging cords come out of.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"kocpnt tds.net" <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:
Hi Scott,
?
I just used two terminals from a 30 amp. 220 volt plug and wired one plug to the charger. I'm assuming that the plugs will be inside the Sub however. How will you vent the pods?
?
Best Regards,
?
Jim K?
?

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Hey guys. I am trying to prep my sub for the West Virginia trip. One of the things on my list is to make it so I can charge the batteries without opening the pods. The connection to the pods is a XXL pipe with a cap and the opening is 1.10". I would like to hook up each battery (positive and negative) wire and some form of plug. This plug would need to be a male and female with two prongs (positive and negative for each 12V battery). One plug on the battery wire side which would fit in the 1.10" hole and the other plug on the charger side rather the alligator clips. I have seen plugs like this on golf carts and floor cleaning machines. Any idea where to get them? They need to be able to handle 20amps
Thanks,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

?
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From wmartindale at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 10 15:47:08 2014
From: wmartindale at cfl.rr.com (Ken Martindale)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:47:08 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
In-Reply-To: <pikh7dvkvancakoanb43tges.1394480288028@email.android.com>
References: <pikh7dvkvancakoanb43tges.1394480288028@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <00a801cf3c99$86307820$92916860$@rr.com>

Probably safe, do you have any forced ventilation?

 

The AGM are excellent batteries but they do have a very small evolution of gases on charge as well as discharge.

 

Good luck,

 

Ken

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:42 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help

 

Good to be aware of. I am using AGM batteries. The vent hole is the one spec in the Kitteredge blue prints. It is hydrogen gas that is the danger right? This gas is lighter than air and will go out of the vent hole on the top of the pod right? The charging will be done on the surface with the hatch open. That should be good enough right? Never hurts to double check that I am being safe.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


Ken Martindale <wmartindale at cfl.rr.com> wrote:

Gotta tell this story.

 

We designed and built a 900 watt undersea light with a series of wet Ni-cads. You had to take the case apart for charging so there was plenty of ventilation.

 

Got a call from the customer about a year later saying the unit had exploded with no personal injuries at 112 feet. Turns out the customer had installed a waterproof connector for charging the light

without taking the case apart. He had used it several times before, the gasses built up and it ignited at 112 feet. After this the case was taken apart during charging

And no more problems.

 

Moral to the story: Make sure you have plenty of ventilation when charging wet (flooded) cells as well as no spark sources in the battery pods.

 

Ken Martindale

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help

 

I never thought of regular AC plugs. To easy! Haha

The batterys will vent out of the same hole the charging cords come out of. 

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


"kocpnt tds.net" <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:

Hi Scott,

 

I just used two terminals from a 30 amp. 220 volt plug and wired one plug to the charger. I'm assuming that the plugs will be inside the Sub however. How will you vent the pods?

 

Best Regards,

 

Jim K 

 

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Hey guys. I am trying to prep my sub for the West Virginia trip. One of the things on my list is to make it so I can charge the batteries without opening the pods. The connection to the pods is a XXL pipe with a cap and the opening is 1.10". I would like to hook up each battery (positive and negative) wire and some form of plug. This plug would need to be a male and female with two prongs (positive and negative for each 12V battery). One plug on the battery wire side which would fit in the 1.10" hole and the other plug on the charger side rather the alligator clips. I have seen plugs like this on golf carts and floor cleaning machines. Any idea where to get them? They need to be able to handle 20amps

Thanks,

Scott Waters


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

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From psub101 at indy.rr.com  Mon Mar 10 15:50:00 2014
From: psub101 at indy.rr.com (Steve McQueen)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:50:00 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
In-Reply-To: <lysfwriytpmy2b026bvtvcqi.1394479226008@email.android.com>
References: <lysfwriytpmy2b026bvtvcqi.1394479226008@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGweWpt5yG9M6D-6kEThT7pbtcVZOF0UwQyV0x=TCRxz0A@mail.gmail.com>

Scott, also keep in mind these types of connectors should be easy to
install after the wiring fits through the 1.10" opening. No need to feel
like the connector needs to fit. Just add after fishing the wire (if
possible) as I believe they won't need to be removed frequently once
installed.

Steve


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:21 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> I never thought of regular AC plugs. To easy! Haha
> The batterys will vent out of the same hole the charging cords come out
> of.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> "kocpnt tds.net" <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> I just used two terminals from a 30 amp. 220 volt plug and wired one plug
> to the charger. I'm assuming that the plugs will be inside the Sub however.
> How will you vent the pods?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jim K
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey guys. I am trying to prep my sub for the West Virginia trip. One of
>> the things on my list is to make it so I can charge the batteries without
>> opening the pods. The connection to the pods is a XXL pipe with a cap and
>> the opening is 1.10". I would like to hook up each battery (positive and
>> negative) wire and some form of plug. This plug would need to be a male and
>> female with two prongs (positive and negative for each 12V battery). One
>> plug on the battery wire side which would fit in the 1.10" hole and the
>> other plug on the charger side rather the alligator clips. I have seen
>> plugs like this on golf carts and floor cleaning machines. Any idea where
>> to get them? They need to be able to handle 20amps
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 10 16:11:47 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:11:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 12 Volt Charging Plug help
In-Reply-To: <CAAGGCGweWpt5yG9M6D-6kEThT7pbtcVZOF0UwQyV0x=TCRxz0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <lysfwriytpmy2b026bvtvcqi.1394479226008@email.android.com>
 <CAAGGCGweWpt5yG9M6D-6kEThT7pbtcVZOF0UwQyV0x=TCRxz0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394482307.80926.YahooMailNeo@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I was about to comment on the very issue of forced ventilation. Wouldn't an ignition proof bilge blower (possibly two units, one for each pod), mounted in the cabin and piped to one end of the thru pipes do the job nicely?

Joe




On Monday, March 10, 2014 4:07 PM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
 
Scott, also keep in mind these types of connectors should be easy to install after the wiring fits through the 1.10" opening. No need to feel like the connector needs to fit. Just add after fishing the wire (if possible) as I believe they won't need to be removed frequently once installed.

Steve




On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:21 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

I never thought of regular AC plugs. To easy! Haha
>The batterys will vent out of the same hole the charging cords come out of.?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>"kocpnt tds.net" <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:
>
>Hi Scott,
>
>
>I just used two terminals from a 30 amp. 220 volt plug and wired one plug to the charger. I'm assuming that the plugs will be inside the Sub however. How will you vent the pods?
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>
>Jim K?
>
>
>
>On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>Hey guys. I am trying to prep my sub for the West Virginia trip. One of the things on my list is to make it so I can charge the batteries without opening the pods. The connection to the pods is a XXL pipe with a cap and the opening is 1.10". I would like to hook up each battery (positive and negative) wire and some form of plug. This plug would need to be a male and female with two prongs (positive and negative for each 12V battery). One plug on the battery wire side which would fit in the 1.10" hole and the other plug on the charger side rather the alligator clips. I have seen plugs like this on golf carts and floor cleaning machines. Any idea where to get them? They need to be able to handle 20amps
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Mar 10 17:09:38 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:09:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
Message-ID: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes ?to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.?? Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.? Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
Hank
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From psub101 at indy.rr.com  Tue Mar 11 08:09:52 2014
From: psub101 at indy.rr.com (Steve McQueen)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:09:52 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior
in pods?
Steve


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:

> Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes  to each battery,
> and seal off the original vent holes.   Run the vent tubes to a manifold
> and purg.  Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
> Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 11 08:43:51 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 05:43:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Steve, 
I am thinking interior of the hull.? Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.? There is an air system to purge the box after charging.? When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.? I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.? I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective.?
Hank



On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
  
Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
Steve




On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes ?to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.?? Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.? Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>Hank
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 11 11:38:17 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394552297.16070.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,<br/><br/>Take a look at how it was done on fleet boats, I think you'll find it informative. Nice figures and diagrams for ref as well.<br/><br/>http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/elect/chap5.htm#5A<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Tue Mar 11 12:19:31 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:19:31 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>

Hank,
The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> I am thinking interior of the hull.  Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.  There is an air system to purge the box after charging.  When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.  I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.  I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective. 
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
> Steve
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes  to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.   Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.  Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
> Hank
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 11 16:03:06 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 13:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.? What am I missing here?? Why?vent the Hydrogen?into ?a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
Hank



On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
  
Hank,
The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Steve, 
>I am thinking interior of the hull.? Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.? There is an air system to purge the box after charging.? When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.? I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.? I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective.?
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>  
>Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes ?to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.?? Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.? Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>>Hank
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 11 16:09:52 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 13:09:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>
 <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394568592.17382.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
That? is exactly what I am talking about, how simple.?? Also think about the cost saving, also I understand that the wet golf cart battery is better than the same in AGM.
Hank



On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:03:07 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
  
Vance,
I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.? What am I missing here?? Why?vent the Hydrogen?into ?a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
Hank



On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
  
Hank,
The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Steve, 
>I am thinking interior of the hull.? Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.? There is an air system to purge the box after charging.? When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.? I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.? I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective.?
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>  
>Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes ?to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.?? Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.? Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>>Hank
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Tue Mar 11 16:50:35 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:50:35 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>
 <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68F51C1B-808F-4F99-92B6-13E6393FC07F@AOL.com>

Hank,
Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little hydrogen can ruin your whole day.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Vance,
> I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.  What am I missing here?  Why vent the Hydrogen into  a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
> Hank,
> The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Steve,
>> I am thinking interior of the hull.  Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.  There is an air system to purge the box after charging.  When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.  I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.  I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective. 
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes  to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.   Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.  Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>> Hank
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 11 17:06:40 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <68F51C1B-808F-4F99-92B6-13E6393FC07F@AOL.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>
 <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <68F51C1B-808F-4F99-92B6-13E6393FC07F@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1394572000.62428.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea the hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out.? The floor is not air tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a leak.? As with the original system, the battery vent system can be pressure tested prior to charging.? Just sayin 
Hank



On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
  
Hank,
Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little hydrogen can ruin your whole day.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Vance,
>I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.? What am I missing here?? Why?vent the Hydrogen?into ?a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>  
>Hank,
>The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Steve, 
>>I am thinking interior of the hull.? Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.? There is an air system to purge the box after charging.? When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.? I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.? I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective.?
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>  
>>Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes ?to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.?? Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.? Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>    
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 11 17:27:26 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:27:26 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <1394572000.62428.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>
 <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <68F51C1B-808F-4F99-92B6-13E6393FC07F@AOL.com>
 <1394572000.62428.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2C36A53F-CBFC-4333-97F1-AF60B38DDB69@yahoo.com>

So the question in my mind then with regard to George's scheme for venting the pods as per plans,.. Is it adequate as is? 

My thoughts have always been to supplement that plan with ignition proof forced ventilation.

Joe

On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Vance,
> The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea the hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out.  The floor is not air tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a leak.  As with the original system, the battery vent system can be pressure tested prior to charging.  Just sayin
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
> Hank,
> Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little hydrogen can ruin your whole day.
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Vance,
>> I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.  What am I missing here?  Why vent the Hydrogen into  a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>> Hank,
>> The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
>> Vance
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> Steve,
>>> I am thinking interior of the hull.  Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.  There is an air system to purge the box after charging.  When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.  I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.  I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective. 
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>> Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes  to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.   Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.  Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 11 17:38:50 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:38:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <2C36A53F-CBFC-4333-97F1-AF60B38DDB69@yahoo.com>
References: <1394485778.88858.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGxUPbPAuEkp776-5Sp05OdWC1cdznVg_kd3uqesJQFE0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394541831.16915.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2D29C565-43F5-4D6A-B27D-2205D59899B9@AOL.com>
 <1394568186.10152.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <68F51C1B-808F-4F99-92B6-13E6393FC07F@AOL.com>
 <1394572000.62428.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <2C36A53F-CBFC-4333-97F1-AF60B38DDB69@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394573930.76450.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
It may be moot for you, you will be able to buy sulfur ion batteries.? I am just looking to save some money in hopes the new batteries are on the market next year.? If it is true about the sulfur batteries our range will increase by six times.
Hank



On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:27:57 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
So the question in my mind then with regard to George's scheme for venting the pods as per plans,.. Is it adequate as is??

My thoughts have always been to supplement that plan with ignition proof forced ventilation.

Joe

On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Vance,
>The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea the hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out.? The floor is not air tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a leak.? As with the original system, the battery vent system can be pressure tested prior to charging.? Just sayin 
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>  
>Hank,
>Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little hydrogen can ruin your whole day.
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Vance,
>>I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.? What am I missing here?? Why?vent the Hydrogen?into ?a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>>  
>>Hank,
>>The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
>>Vance
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Steve, 
>>>I am thinking interior of the hull.? Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.? There is an air system to purge the box after charging.? When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.? I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.? I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective.?
>>>Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>>Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes ?to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.?? Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.? Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>>>>Hank
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>    
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Tue Mar 11 18:01:29 2014
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:01:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
Message-ID: <b8de0.64e011a3.4050e1b9@aol.com>

Hank,
 
Some types of lithium ion batteries presently available might  be just as 
economical as AGMs, etc. when you consider the number of recharging  cycles - 
cost twice as much, but last more than twice as long.  Several  subs are 
presently operating with them.
 
Here's as good a place as any to start if you want to  investigate those 
options.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery  
I've pasted a key paragraph below.  When I last looked  into it I was most 
in favor of LFP.  
 
Chemistry, performance, cost and safety characteristics vary across LIB  
types. Handheld electronics mostly use LIBs based on _lithium cobalt  oxide_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_cobalt_oxide)  (LiCoO
2),  which offers high energy density, but presents safety risks, 
especially when  damaged. _Lithium iron  phosphate_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate)  (LFP), _lithium manganese  oxide_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-manganese_battery)  (LMO) and lithium nickel manganese 
cobalt oxide (NMC) offer lower  energy density, but longer lives and inherent 
safety. Such batteries are widely  used for electric tools, medical equipment 
and other roles. NMC in particular is  a leading contender for automotive 
applications. Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum  oxide (NCA) and _lithium 
titanate_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_titanate)  (LTO)  are specialty 
designs aimed at particular niche roles.
 
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 3/11/2014 4:39:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:

 
Joe,
It may be moot for you, you will be able to buy sulfur ion  batteries.  I 
am just looking to save some money in hopes the new  batteries are on the 
market next year.  If it is true about the sulfur  batteries our range will 
increase by six times.
Hank



 
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:27:57 PM,  Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> 
wrote:


 
 
So the question in my mind then with regard to George's scheme for  venting 
the pods as per plans,.. Is it adequate as is? 


My thoughts have always been to supplement that plan with ignition proof  
forced ventilation.


Joe
 

On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ 
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >  wrote:




 
Vance,
The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea  the 
hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out.  The  floor is not air 
tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a  leak.  As with 
the original system, the battery vent system can be  pressure tested prior to 
charging.  Just sayin 
Hank



 
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM,  Vance Bradley <_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ 
(mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) > wrote:


 
 
Hank,
Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight  
systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive  gas. 
And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little  
hydrogen can ruin your whole day.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone
 

On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ 
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >  wrote:




 
Vance,
I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery  directly.  
What am I missing here?  Why vent the  Hydrogen into  a space then vent the 
space, makes no  sense.
Hank



 
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53  AM, Vance Bradley 
<_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ (mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) > wrote:


 
 
Hank,
The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to  clear 
the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to  one 
hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody  
forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on  Delta, 
too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a  result. Oops.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone
 

On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ 
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >  wrote:




 
Steve, 
I am thinking interior of the hull.  Gamma has interior  batteries sealed 
in a box.  There is an air system to purge the box  after charging.  When I 
was reading the daily service reports, I  read about an instance where the 
box had an explosion due to a faulty  cable connection.  I was thinking of 
going one step further and  drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry 
the hydrogen  away.  I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems 
simple  and effective. 
Hank



 
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52  AM, Steve McQueen 
<_psub101 at indy.rr.com_ (mailto:psub101 at indy.rr.com) >  wrote:


 
 
 
Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or  exterior 
in pods?

Steve



On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM,  hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ 
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >  wrote:


 
 
Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes  to  each battery, 
and seal off the original vent holes.   Run  the vent tubes to a manifold and 
purg.  Keep the vent tubes going  up hill all the way.
Hank




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 11 18:11:46 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <b8de0.64e011a3.4050e1b9@aol.com>
References: <b8de0.64e011a3.4050e1b9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1394575906.19471.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Jim,
Thanks' for the info,? I really have little choice but to go with wet batteries.? I am soooo over budget,?plus I just dropped off my radio's to be over hauled.? I have been reduced to selling my steam engine collection.? :-(
Hank



On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:01:49 PM, "JimToddPsub at aol.com" <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:
  
Hank, 
? 
Some types of lithium ion batteries presently available might 
be just as economical as AGMs, etc. when you consider the number of recharging 
cycles - cost twice as much, but last more than twice as long.? Several 
subs are?presently operating with?them. 
? 
Here's as good a place as any to start if you want to 
investigate those options.??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery?  
I've pasted a key paragraph below.? When I last looked 
into it I was most in favor of LFP.?  
? 
Chemistry, performance, cost and safety characteristics vary across LIB 
types. Handheld electronics mostly use LIBs based on lithium cobalt 
oxide (LiCoO
2), 
which offers high energy density, but presents safety risks, especially when 
damaged. Lithium iron 
phosphate (LFP), lithium manganese 
oxide (LMO) and lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) offer lower 
energy density, but longer lives and inherent safety. Such batteries are widely 
used for electric tools, medical equipment and other roles. NMC in particular is 
a leading contender for automotive applications. Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum 
oxide (NCA) and lithium titanate (LTO) 
are specialty designs aimed at particular niche roles. 

Jim 

In a message dated 3/11/2014 4:39:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes: 
Joe, 
>It may be moot for you, you will be able to buy sulfur ion  batteries.? I am just looking to save some money in hopes the new  batteries are on the market next year.? If it is true about the sulfur  batteries our range will increase by six times. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:27:57 PM,  Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>So the question in my mind then with regard to George's scheme for  venting the pods as per plans,.. Is it adequate as is?? 
>
> 
>My thoughts have always been to supplement that plan with ignition proof  forced ventilation. 
>
> 
>Joe 
>
>On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>  wrote:
>
> 
>Vance, 
>>The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea  the hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out.? The  floor is not air tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a  leak.? As with the original system, the battery vent system can be  pressure tested prior to charging.? Just sayin  
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM,  Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Hank, 
>>Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight  systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive  gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little  hydrogen can ruin your whole day. 
>>Vance
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone 
>>
>>On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>Vance, 
>>>I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery  directly.? What am I missing here?? Why?vent the  Hydrogen?into ?a space then vent the space, makes no  sense. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53  AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hank, 
>>>The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to  clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to  one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody  forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on  Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a  result. Oops. 
>>>Vance
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPhone 
>>>
>>>On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>Steve,  
>>>>I am thinking interior of the hull.? Gamma has interior  batteries sealed in a box.? There is an air system to purge the box  after charging.? When I was reading the daily service reports, I  read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty  cable connection.? I was thinking of going one step further and  drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen  away.? I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple  and effective.? 
>>>>Hank 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52  AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or  exterior in pods?
>>>>Steve
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM,  hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes ?to  each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.?? Run  the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.? Keep the vent tubes going  up hill all the way. 
>>>>>Hank
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> 
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles 
  mailing 
  list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 11 18:43:39 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:43:39 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries
In-Reply-To: <1394575906.19471.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <b8de0.64e011a3.4050e1b9@aol.com>
 <1394575906.19471.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <209FAC06-C432-4338-A544-24AE17FDAB78@yahoo.com>

Hank,

I hear you! Not having yet started cost issues have had my sub aspirations on a yo yo diet! Presently, we're in an anorexic phase.

As Jim echoes your comments, new technologies are presenting interesting options and exciting capabilities. Even the promise of a doubled capability presents a whole new game!

Joe

On Mar 11, 2014, at 6:11 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> Thanks' for the info,  I really have little choice but to go with wet batteries.  I am soooo over budget, plus I just dropped off my radio's to be over hauled.  I have been reduced to selling my steam engine collection.  :-(
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:01:49 PM, "JimToddPsub at aol.com" <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:
> Hank,
>  
> Some types of lithium ion batteries presently available might be just as economical as AGMs, etc. when you consider the number of recharging cycles - cost twice as much, but last more than twice as long.  Several subs are presently operating with them.
>  
> Here's as good a place as any to start if you want to investigate those options.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery 
> I've pasted a key paragraph below.  When I last looked into it I was most in favor of LFP. 
>  
> Chemistry, performance, cost and safety characteristics vary across LIB types. Handheld electronics mostly use LIBs based on lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO
> 2), which offers high energy density, but presents safety risks, especially when damaged. Lithium iron phosphate (LFP), lithium manganese oxide (LMO) and lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) offer lower energy density, but longer lives and inherent safety. Such batteries are widely used for electric tools, medical equipment and other roles. NMC in particular is a leading contender for automotive applications. Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (NCA) and lithium titanate (LTO) are specialty designs aimed at particular niche roles.
>  
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 3/11/2014 4:39:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:
> Joe,
> It may be moot for you, you will be able to buy sulfur ion batteries.  I am just looking to save some money in hopes the new batteries are on the market next year.  If it is true about the sulfur batteries our range will increase by six times.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:27:57 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> So the question in my mind then with regard to George's scheme for venting the pods as per plans,.. Is it adequate as is? 
> 
> My thoughts have always been to supplement that plan with ignition proof forced ventilation.
> 
> Joe
> 
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>    wrote:
> 
>> Vance,
>> The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea the hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out.  The floor is not air tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a leak.  As with the original system, the battery vent system can be pressure tested prior to charging.  Just sayin
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>> Hank,
>> Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little hydrogen can ruin your whole day.
>> Vance
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> Vance,
>>> I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.  What am I missing here?  Why vent the Hydrogen into  a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53        AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>>> Hank,
>>> The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to        one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
>>> Vance
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Steve,
>>>> I am thinking interior of the hull.  Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.  There is an air system to purge the box after charging.  When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.  I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.  I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective. 
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM,          hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes  to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.   Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.  Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> =
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 11 23:14:13 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:14:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
Message-ID: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe or anyone,
have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
I remember you searching for them at one stage.
I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
a mock up.
Thanks?
Alan
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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Tue Mar 11 23:24:25 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 23:24:25 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9BBC9990-5C20-4D45-A532-96B89F8C9A48@AOL.com>

Alan,
Sorry, I'm out if town until the middle of next month. I've got six of them at home and probably that many tape measures, too. None of them are any help just at the moment. 
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2014, at 11:14 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Joe or anyone,
> have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
> I remember you searching for them at one stage.
> I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
> Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
> a mock up.
> Thanks 
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 11 23:44:59 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:44:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <9BBC9990-5C20-4D45-A532-96B89F8C9A48@AOL.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <9BBC9990-5C20-4D45-A532-96B89F8C9A48@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1394595899.33550.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Vance,?
hope you aren't flying. Some of the social media's more challenged individuals?
are concluding that planes?are being abducted by Alien mother craft or traveling?
though worm holes to?a parralel universe.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,
Sorry, I'm out if town until the middle of next month. I've got six of them at home and probably that many tape measures, too. None of them are any help just at the moment.?
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2014, at 11:14 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:


Joe or anyone,
>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>a mock up.
>Thanks?
>Alan
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 00:17:51 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 21:17:51 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I
will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the
specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
David
On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Joe or anyone,
> have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
> I remember you searching for them at one stage.
> I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
> Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
> a mock up.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 00:32:55 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 21:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
That would be appreciated.
Alan


________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
David
On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Joe or anyone,
>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>a mock up.
>Thanks?
>Alan
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 01:27:43 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 22:27:43 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEEAF3DWxJEpU1-a5aVLPwPXmnJxbJzXzJ8UnvFfMLY4ag@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan,
Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file.
You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.




Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>wrote:

> It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
> That would be appreciated.
> Alan
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
> Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I
> will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the
> specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
> David
> On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Joe or anyone,
> have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
> I remember you searching for them at one stage.
> I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
> Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
> a mock up.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 01:53:05 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 22:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEEAF3DWxJEpU1-a5aVLPwPXmnJxbJzXzJ8UnvFfMLY4ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEEAF3DWxJEpU1-a5aVLPwPXmnJxbJzXzJ8UnvFfMLY4ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394603585.15731.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Many thanks David,
it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
Alan



________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Hi Alan, 
Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.





Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com




On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
>That would be appreciated.
>Alan
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
>
>
>Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
>David
>On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Joe or anyone,
>>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>>a mock up.
>>Thanks?
>>Alan
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 03:58:51 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 00:58:51 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394603585.15731.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEEAF3DWxJEpU1-a5aVLPwPXmnJxbJzXzJ8UnvFfMLY4ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394603585.15731.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEFBLReTaYcxr3n1x--OZwPXC6Uz4pfOop63Vkno1hjmSw@mail.gmail.com>

Alan,
If your going to be using the Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They
are a lot bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of them,
it takes some space planning to layout the units and their wires that come
factory installed to make the most efficient use of wire lengths, and how
to place them against the hull to help take away some the heat that they
generate, and to be able to service them.

David

Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Many thanks David,
> it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
> I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
> Alan
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
> Hi Alan,
> Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file.
> You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
>
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com <http://www.seaquestor.com/>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
> That would be appreciated.
> Alan
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
> Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I
> will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the
> specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
> David
> On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Joe or anyone,
> have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
> I remember you searching for them at one stage.
> I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
> Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
> a mock up.
> Thanks
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 04:42:13 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 01:42:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEFBLReTaYcxr3n1x--OZwPXC6Uz4pfOop63Vkno1hjmSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEEAF3DWxJEpU1-a5aVLPwPXmnJxbJzXzJ8UnvFfMLY4ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394603585.15731.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEFBLReTaYcxr3n1x--OZwPXC6Uz4pfOop63Vkno1hjmSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394613733.39378.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the warning David.
It would probably be smart using the Minn kota motor controllers if I use the 101s.
Alan





________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,
If your going to be using the Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They are a lot bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of them, it takes some space planning to layout the units and their wires that come factory installed to make the most efficient use of wire lengths, and how to?place them against the hull to help take away some the heat that they generate, and to be able to service them.? 

David


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com




On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Many thanks David,
>it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
>I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> 
>From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
>
>
>Hi Alan, 
>Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>David Colombo
>
>804 College Ave
>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>(707) 536-1424
>www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
>>That would be appreciated.
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
>>David
>>On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Joe or anyone,
>>>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>>>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>>>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>>>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>>>a mock up.
>>>Thanks?
>>>Alan
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 16:32:52 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:32:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394613733.39378.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEEAF3DWxJEpU1-a5aVLPwPXmnJxbJzXzJ8UnvFfMLY4ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394603585.15731.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEFBLReTaYcxr3n1x--OZwPXC6Uz4pfOop63Vkno1hjmSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394613733.39378.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394656372.32478.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,

I see you got what you asked for, David was my source as well.

Rhino 5 huh?, must be nice I have 4. I figure a few more weekends at the intersection with my cardboard sign "Will work for CAD upgrade" should do the trick! :)

Joe





On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:44 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Thanks for the warning David.
It would probably be smart using the Minn kota motor controllers if I use the 101s.
Alan





________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,
If your going to be using the Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They are a lot bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of them, it takes some space planning to layout the units and their wires that come factory installed to make the most efficient use of wire lengths, and how to?place them against the hull to help take away some the heat that they generate, and to be able to service them.? 

David


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com




On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Many thanks David,
>it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
>I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> 
>From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
>
>
>Hi Alan, 
>Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>David Colombo
>
>804 College Ave
>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>(707) 536-1424
>www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
>>That would be appreciated.
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
>>David
>>On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Joe or anyone,
>>>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>>>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>>>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>>>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>>>a mock up.
>>>Thanks?
>>>Alan
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From freepetesub at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 19:52:29 2014
From: freepetesub at yahoo.com (Pete Niedermayr)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
Message-ID: <1394668349.99141.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

David, 

Thanks for the .dwg . Please post the PWM unit .dwg .

 Pete
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/12/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Date: Wednesday, March 12, 2014, 1:32 PM
 
 Alan,
 
 I see you got what you asked for, David was my source as
 well.
 
 Rhino 5 huh?, must be nice I have 4. I figure a few more
 weekends at the intersection with my cardboard sign "Will work for CAD
 upgrade" should do the trick! :)
 
 Joe
 
  
  
      On Wednesday, March
 12, 2014 4:44 AM, Alan James
 <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
     Thanks for the
 warning David.It
 would probably be smart using the Minn kota motor
 controllers if I use the 101s.Alan
 
 
 
       
  From: David Colombo
 <seaquestor at gmail.com>
  To: Personal
  Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
  Sent:
 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:58 PM
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
    
 Alan,If your going to be using the
 Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They are a lot
 bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of
 them, it takes some space planning to layout the units and
 their wires that come factory installed to make the most
 efficient use of wire lengths, and how to?place them
 against the hull to help take away some the heat that they
 generate, and to be able to service them.? 
 
 David
 Best
 Regards,
 David Colombo
 
 
 804 College Ave
 Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
 (707) 536-1424
 www.SeaQuestor.com
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at
 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 
 Many thanks
 David,it opened in Rhino 5 OK.I spent
 hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
 Alan
 
    
      From: David Colombo
 <seaquestor at gmail.com>
  To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
  Sent:
 Wednesday, March 12, 2014
  6:27 PM
 
 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 
  
 
 
 Hi Alan, Here is the Minn Kota thruster
 elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove
 the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
 
 
 
 
 
 Best Regards,
 David
 Colombo
 
 804 College Ave
 
 Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
 
 (707) 536-1424
 www.SeaQuestor.com
 
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, Mar 11, 2014
 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 It looks like
 I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
 
 That would be appreciated.
 Alan
   
 
      From: David Colombo
 <seaquestor at gmail.com>
 
  To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
 
  Sent:
 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
 
 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 
   
  
 Hi
 Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004
 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG
 file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the
 ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
 
 
 
 
 David
 On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Joe or anyone,have you got
 the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
 I remember you searching for them at one stage.
 I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible
 file.Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate
 as it is just fora mock
 up.Thanks?Alan
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
  
    
 _______________________________________________
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
    
 _______________________________________________
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
       
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
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 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From mholt at ohiohills.com  Wed Mar 12 21:06:01 2014
From: mholt at ohiohills.com (Michael Holt)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:06:01 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I found a reference to a biological propulsion
	method
Message-ID: <53210479.5050805@ohiohills.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalocaris

In the section "Anatomy," there are two (or maybe three) references that 
report that the side fins on the animal is an inherently stable 
propulsion technique.  I don't seem to have access to the full texts but 
one comment is that mechanical model was made and tested.


M

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Wed Mar 12 21:55:51 2014
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:55:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I found a reference to a biological propulsion
	method
Message-ID: <79e3e.54135c79.40526a2d@aol.com>

Mike,
If you go to Youtube and search for "Anomalocaris" you'll find  a number of 
videos.  A couple of years ago there were several posts on  mechanical fish 
or robofish.  I don't recall the threads, but those are  easy to find on 
Youtube also.  Caltech has a Biological Propulsion  Laboratory.
Jim



In a message dated 3/12/2014 8:27:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
mholt at ohiohills.com writes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalocaris

In the section  "Anatomy," there are two (or maybe three) references that 
report that the  side fins on the animal is an inherently stable 
propulsion  technique.  I don't seem to have access to the full texts but 
one  comment is that mechanical model was made and  tested.


M

---
This email is free from viruses and malware  because avast! Antivirus 
protection is  active.
http://www.avast.com

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 22:19:51 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:19:51 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I found a reference to a biological propulsion
	method
In-Reply-To: <79e3e.54135c79.40526a2d@aol.com>
References: <79e3e.54135c79.40526a2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnLQAagkA+4-fhW3NqYZ9__j8Cv7DkVN-9_LwPFh7uR9zg@mail.gmail.com>

I know that this isn't exactly what we're talking about (granted, it's
close) but this discussion reminded me of Hobie's mirage drive. Very
interesting concept, not sure about the practical uses on a submersible
though. ~ Douglas S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6OQhCeXqs




On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:55 PM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:

>  Mike,
> If you go to Youtube and search for "Anomalocaris" you'll find a number of
> videos.  A couple of years ago there were several posts on mechanical fish
> or robofish.  I don't recall the threads, but those are easy to find on
> Youtube also.  Caltech has a Biological Propulsion Laboratory.
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 3/12/2014 8:27:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> mholt at ohiohills.com writes:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalocaris
>
> In the section "Anatomy," there are two (or maybe three) references that
> report that the side fins on the animal is an inherently stable
> propulsion technique.  I don't seem to have access to the full texts but
> one comment is that mechanical model was made and tested.
>
>
> M
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Wed Mar 12 22:33:48 2014
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:33:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I found a reference to a biological propulsion
	method
Message-ID: <7ad70.e4a85c5.40527312@aol.com>

Doug,
If it weren't for a real time crunch, I would like to have adapted the  
Mirage for use in our cardboard boat races on a local lake.  One really  cool 
features is that you can put the fins in a full-up position against the  
bottom of the hull when launching or when in the shallows.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 3/12/2014 9:21:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
spiritofcalypso at gmail.com writes:

I know that this isn't exactly what we're talking about (granted,  it's 
close) but this discussion reminded me of Hobie's mirage drive. Very  
interesting concept, not sure about the practical uses on a submersible  though. ~ 
Douglas S.   


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6OQhCeXqs 








On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:55 PM, <_JimToddPsub at aol.com_ 
(mailto:JimToddPsub at aol.com) > wrote:


Mike,
If you go to Youtube and search for "Anomalocaris" you'll  find a number of 
videos.  A couple of years ago there were several  posts on mechanical fish 
or robofish.  I don't recall the threads, but  those are easy to find on 
Youtube also.  Caltech has a Biological  Propulsion Laboratory.
Jim


 

 
In a message dated 3/12/2014 8:27:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
_mholt at ohiohills.com_ (mailto:mholt at ohiohills.com)  writes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalocaris

In the  section "Anatomy," there are two (or maybe three) references that  
report that the side fins on the animal is an inherently stable  
propulsion technique.  I don't seem to have access to the full  texts but 
one comment is that mechanical model was made and  tested.


M

---
This email is free from viruses and  malware because avast! Antivirus 
protection is active.
_http://www.avast.com_ (http://www.avast.com/) 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 23:34:59 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:34:59 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I found a reference to a biological propulsion
	method
In-Reply-To: <7ad70.e4a85c5.40527312@aol.com>
References: <7ad70.e4a85c5.40527312@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnLm12f_Q6KbRrbH8ixLn9UKYpsbdG_wqXBJXKfy6mRV7g@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah I've seen them fold, that's a pretty nice feature for a kayak.


On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:33 PM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:

>  Doug,
> If it weren't for a real time crunch, I would like to have adapted the
> Mirage for use in our cardboard boat races on a local lake.  One really
> cool features is that you can put the fins in a full-up position against
> the bottom of the hull when launching or when in the shallows.
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 3/12/2014 9:21:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> spiritofcalypso at gmail.com writes:
>
> I know that this isn't exactly what we're talking about (granted, it's
> close) but this discussion reminded me of Hobie's mirage drive. Very
> interesting concept, not sure about the practical uses on a submersible
> though. ~ Douglas S.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6OQhCeXqs
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:55 PM, <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>  Mike,
>> If you go to Youtube and search for "Anomalocaris" you'll find a number
>> of videos.  A couple of years ago there were several posts on mechanical
>> fish or robofish.  I don't recall the threads, but those are easy to find
>> on Youtube also.  Caltech has a Biological Propulsion Laboratory.
>> Jim
>>
>>  In a message dated 3/12/2014 8:27:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> mholt at ohiohills.com writes:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalocaris
>>
>> In the section "Anatomy," there are two (or maybe three) references that
>> report that the side fins on the animal is an inherently stable
>> propulsion technique.  I don't seem to have access to the full texts but
>> one comment is that mechanical model was made and tested.
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 13 02:02:14 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:02:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394656372.32478.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394594053.29638.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEERP8kd-cEWYC9Cat4sbZrMBdZYTKJi9zHc=kwCQn=y_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394598775.43094.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEEAF3DWxJEpU1-a5aVLPwPXmnJxbJzXzJ8UnvFfMLY4ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394603585.15731.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEFBLReTaYcxr3n1x--OZwPXC6Uz4pfOop63Vkno1hjmSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394613733.39378.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394656372.32478.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394690534.25414.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

This might be the psub way of the future Joe.
Have a bank of CAD files to pick & choose from to build your submarine.
I'll have that hull, those light housings, those electrical connections etc. Put it all together
then order or send the files off to the cnc machines.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,

I see you got what you asked for, David was my source as well.

Rhino 5 huh?, must be nice I have 4. I figure a few more weekends at the intersection with my cardboard sign "Will work for CAD upgrade" should do the trick! :)

Joe





On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:44 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Thanks for the warning David.
It would probably be smart using the Minn kota motor controllers if I use the 101s.
Alan





________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,
If your going to be using the Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They are a lot bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of them, it takes some space planning to layout the units and their wires that come factory installed to make the most efficient use of wire lengths, and how to?place them against the hull to help take away some the heat that they generate, and to be able to service them.? 

David


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com




On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Many thanks David,
>it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
>I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> 
>From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
>
>
>Hi Alan, 
>Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>David Colombo
>
>804 College Ave
>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>(707) 536-1424
>www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
>>That would be appreciated.
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
>>David
>>On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Joe or anyone,
>>>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>>>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>>>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>>>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>>>a mock up.
>>>Thanks?
>>>Alan
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 13 03:20:34 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 00:20:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394690534.25414.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394695234.54469.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,<br/><br/>I've been doing precisely that over a number of years. Many vendors from fittings to electric motors provide CAD files. McMaster Carr, is a fine source by the way.<br/><br/>I have Orca 3d (dedicated marine design) as a plug in for Rhino. Among its virtues is the ability to assign material densities for accurate weight and balance calculations. It calculates volumes based on object geometry so long as the object is a closed solid without naked edges. <br/><br/>I don't know if Rhino native can do that or not, (perhaps 5 can ?) it's damn handy for this kind of work.<br/><br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 13 05:05:15 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 02:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394695234.54469.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394690534.25414.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394695234.54469.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394701515.97765.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
I recently bought Orca but won't be touching it till I master Rhino 5.
I also bought Scan & Solve, which is a rudimentary FEA plug in for Rhino
that I am told can analyse a hull for external pressure.
Glad to know there is someone I can annoy if I get stuck with Orca.
Alan



________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,

I've been doing precisely that over a number of years. Many vendors from fittings to electric motors provide CAD files. McMaster Carr, is a fine source by the way.

I have Orca 3d (dedicated marine design) as a plug in for Rhino. Among its virtues is the ability to assign material densities for accurate weight and balance calculations. It calculates volumes based on object geometry so long as the object is a closed solid without naked edges. 

I don't know if Rhino native can do that or not, (perhaps 5 can ?) it's damn handy for this kind of work.


Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 



________________________________
 From:  Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions 
Sent:  Thu, Mar 13, 2014 6:02:14 AM 


This might be the psub way of the future Joe.
Have a bank of CAD files to pick & choose from to build your submarine.
I'll have that hull, those light housings, those electrical connections etc. Put it all together
then order or send the files off to the cnc machines.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,

I see you got what you asked for, David was my source as well.

Rhino 5 huh?, must be nice I have 4. I figure a few more weekends at the intersection with my cardboard sign "Will work for CAD upgrade" should do the trick! :)

Joe





On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:44 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Thanks for the warning David.
It would probably be smart using the Minn kota motor controllers if I use the 101s.
Alan





________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,
If your going to be using the Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They are a lot bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of them, it takes some space planning to layout the units and their wires that come factory installed to make the most efficient use of wire lengths, and how to?place them against the hull to help take away some the heat that they generate, and to be able to service them.? 

David


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com




On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Many thanks David,
>it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
>I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> 
>From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
>
>
>Hi Alan, 
>Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>David Colombo
>
>804 College Ave
>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>(707) 536-1424
>www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
>>That would be appreciated.
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
>>David
>>On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Joe or anyone,
>>>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>>>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>>>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>>>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>>>a mock up.
>>>Thanks?
>>>Alan
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 13 09:40:40 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 06:40:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394701515.97765.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394690534.25414.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394695234.54469.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1394701515.97765.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394718040.30756.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,

You've got some premier tools there at your disposal, very nice! 

Scan and Solve is more utilitarian than a simple pressure boundary calculator which you have in Cliff's spreadsheet already. What Quicken is to accounting, applications like Scan and Solve are to engineering. Home-builders/designers in all disciplines have a tendency to "over-engineer" individual components with a "more is better" philosophy.

Scan and Solve will allow you to input known material properties and then simulate expected forces / stresses to failure while analyzing the results. This allows the amateur to design with confidence to minimum scantlings necessary to get the job done with an appropriately determined safety factor. Really cool stuff, I want one! It's on my wish list.

Joe





On Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:07 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Joe,
I recently bought Orca but won't be touching it till I master Rhino 5.
I also bought Scan & Solve, which is a rudimentary FEA plug in for Rhino
that I am told can analyse a hull for external pressure.
Glad to know there is someone I can annoy if I get stuck with Orca.
Alan



________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,

I've been doing precisely that over a number of years. Many vendors from
 fittings to electric motors provide CAD files. McMaster Carr, is a fine source by the way.

I have Orca 3d (dedicated marine design) as a plug in for Rhino. Among its virtues is the ability to assign material densities for accurate weight and balance calculations. It calculates volumes based on object geometry so long as the object is a closed solid without naked edges. 

I don't know if Rhino native can do that or not, (perhaps 5 can ?) it's damn handy for this kind of work.


Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 



________________________________
 From:  Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions 
Sent:  Thu, Mar 13, 2014 6:02:14 AM 


This might be the psub way of the future Joe.
Have a bank of CAD files to pick & choose from to build your submarine.
I'll have that hull, those light housings, those electrical connections etc. Put it all together
then order or send the files off to the cnc machines.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,

I see you got what you asked for, David was my source as well.

Rhino 5 huh?, must be nice I have 4. I figure a few more weekends at the intersection with my cardboard sign "Will work for CAD upgrade" should do the trick! :)

Joe





On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:44 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Thanks for the warning David.
It would probably be smart using the Minn kota motor controllers if I use the 101s.
Alan





________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
 


Alan,
If your going to be using the Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They are a lot bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of them, it takes some space planning to layout the units and their wires that come factory installed to make the most efficient use of wire lengths, and how to?place them against the hull to help take away some the heat that they generate, and to be able to service them.? 

David


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com




On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Many thanks David,
>it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
>I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
>Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> 
>From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>
>
>
>Hi Alan, 
>Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>David Colombo
>
>804 College Ave
>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>(707) 536-1424
>www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
>>That would be appreciated.
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
>>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
>>David
>>On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Joe or anyone,
>>>have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
>>>I remember you searching for them at one stage.
>>>I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
>>>Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
>>>a mock up.
>>>Thanks?
>>>Alan
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 13 13:19:08 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 06:19:08 +1300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
In-Reply-To: <1394718040.30756.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1394690534.25414.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394695234.54469.YahooMailIosMobile@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1394701515.97765.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1394718040.30756.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68277984-559B-40C0-98F9-CBBDC0F3E4AC@yahoo.com>

Thanks Joe,
You won't need scan & solve. Just email the files when I
learn how to use it.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 14/03/2014, at 2:40 am, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> 
> You've got some premier tools there at your disposal, very nice! 
> 
> Scan and Solve is more utilitarian than a simple pressure boundary calculator which you have in Cliff's spreadsheet already. What Quicken is to accounting, applications like Scan and Solve are to engineering. Home-builders/designers in all disciplines have a tendency to "over-engineer" individual components with a "more is better" philosophy.
> 
> Scan and Solve will allow you to input known material properties and then simulate expected forces / stresses to failure while analyzing the results. This allows the amateur to design with confidence to minimum scantlings necessary to get the job done with an appropriately determined safety factor. Really cool stuff, I want one! It's on my wish list.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:07 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Joe,
> I recently bought Orca but won't be touching it till I master Rhino 5.
> I also bought Scan & Solve, which is a rudimentary FEA plug in for Rhino
> that I am told can analyse a hull for external pressure.
> Glad to know there is someone I can annoy if I get stuck with Orca.
> Alan
> 
> 
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
> 
> Alan,
> 
> I've been doing precisely that over a number of years. Many vendors from fittings to electric motors provide CAD files. McMaster Carr, is a fine source by the way.
> 
> I have Orca 3d (dedicated marine design) as a plug in for Rhino. Among its virtues is the ability to assign material densities for accurate weight and balance calculations. It calculates volumes based on object geometry so long as the object is a closed solid without naked edges. 
> 
> I don't know if Rhino native can do that or not, (perhaps 5 can ?) it's damn handy for this kind of work.
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
> 
> From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>; 
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions 
> Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 6:02:14 AM 
> 
> This might be the psub way of the future Joe.
> Have a bank of CAD files to pick & choose from to build your submarine.
> I'll have that hull, those light housings, those electrical connections etc. Put it all together
> then order or send the files off to the cnc machines.
> Alan
> 
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
> 
> Alan,
> 
> I see you got what you asked for, David was my source as well.
> 
> Rhino 5 huh?, must be nice I have 4. I figure a few more weekends at the intersection with my cardboard sign "Will work for CAD upgrade" should do the trick! :)
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:44 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the warning David.
> It would probably be smart using the Minn kota motor controllers if I use the 101s.
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
> 
> Alan,
> If your going to be using the Minn Kota PWM unit I have that as well. They are a lot bigger than I thought they would be, and since I have 6 of them, it takes some space planning to layout the units and their wires that come factory installed to make the most efficient use of wire lengths, and how to place them against the hull to help take away some the heat that they generate, and to be able to service them. 
> 
> David
> 
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
> 
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Many thanks David,
> it opened in Rhino 5 OK.
> I spent hours on the web trying to find the specs on that.
> Alan
> 
> 
> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:27 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
> 
> Hi Alan,
> Here is the Minn Kota thruster elevations. This is an acad 2004 dwg file. You can remove the elements of the kort nozzle as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
> 
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> It looks like I should be able to open a dwg thanks David.
> That would be appreciated.
> Alan
> 
> From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
> 
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:17 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn kota Dimensions
> 
> Hi Alan, I have the 101 thruster measured and in autocad 2004 version. I will email you the cad files if can open the DWG file. I had to create the specs to be able to fabricate the ss kort nozzle and mounting assembly.
> David
> On Mar 11, 2014 8:15 PM, "Alan James" <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Joe or anyone,
> have you got the dimensions for the Minn kota 101?
> I remember you searching for them at one stage.
> I am using Rhino 5 in case you have a compatible file.
> Doesn't have to be incredibly accurate as it is just for
> a mock up.
> Thanks 
> Alan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 01:11:35 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:11:35 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,
This article was just published on me and the SeaQuestor project, as well
as plug for Psubs.org.

http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub
/



Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com
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From spiritofcalypso at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 01:33:29 2014
From: spiritofcalypso at gmail.com (Douglas Suhr)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 01:33:29 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnLTA+tBmK3C6=2jbHt37=EavHd5MA7s6fcRBm8PKWxZhg@mail.gmail.com>

Nice article Dave! I didn't realize that you were within a year of testing
while at the convention and are now shooting for September. That's very
good. I am excited to see some video footage this fall! ~ Douglas S.


On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:11 AM, David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Guys,
> This article was just published on me and the SeaQuestor project, as well
> as plug for Psubs.org.
>
>
> http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub
> /
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
>
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 15 03:23:48 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 00:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394868228.66741.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Well done David, great article.
Great picture of you with the hat.
So what September were you wet testing it, 2015,16...??
Alan



________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:11 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
 


Hi Guys,
This article was just published on me and the SeaQuestor project, as well as plug for Psubs.org. 

http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub/



Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From subvet596 at optonline.net  Sat Mar 15 09:09:02 2014
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (John Kammerer)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 09:09:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation
Message-ID: <508ae85c.39469.144c5dc246d.Webtop.53@optonline.net>

Hi All:

  I am doing the piping for the boats sanitary tank system. I have two 
thru-hull valves for pump out (1 1/2") and discharge to sea (1") via a 
24v Macerator pump. I am looking to isolate the ball valves from the 
heavy wall collar penetration. There is the flange valve with gasket and 
hardware insulators or a rated schedule 80 non-conductive PVC close 
nipple.

  Also I need to setup the two entry hatches with quick acting wheel 
with 4 dogs to be operated from either side. I've looked at Juniper 
Industries products and am looking for other options,?any suggestions 
appreciated.

  John K.
  Project 765
(203) 414-1000


From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 15 09:58:23 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 06:58:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
In-Reply-To: <1394868228.66741.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394868228.66741.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394891903.47934.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


"Colombo has always been interested in the ocean, and growing up, he 
loved watching ?The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau,? ?Star Trek? and
 ?Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.? Later, he and his roommate got 
certified as divers"? 


There is something quite familiar about the above passage, anyone else?!! Good grief in my case, substitute the word "classmate" for "roommate!" Congratulations David, nicely done at the festival. Hope to one day show up at that with my as yet unnamed project in tow.


Joe






On Saturday, March 15, 2014 3:26 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Well done David, great article.
Great picture of you with the hat.
So what September were you wet testing it, 2015,16...??
Alan



________________________________
 From: David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:11 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
 


Hi Guys,
This article was just published on me and the SeaQuestor project, as well as plug for Psubs.org. 

http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub/



Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From jon.wallace at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 15 11:11:19 2014
From: jon.wallace at yahoo.com (Jon Wallace)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 08:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1394896279.93166.YahooMailBasic@web140903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Great article David, very nicely done.  I'll post it on the website and thanks for plugging PSUBS.

Jon


--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 3/15/14, David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
 Date: Saturday, March 15, 2014, 1:11 AM
 
 Hi Guys,
 This article was just published on me and the
 SeaQuestor project, as well as plug for Psubs.org. 
 
 http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub/
 
 
 
 Best Regards,
 David Colombo
 
 804 College Ave
 
 Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
 (707) 536-1424
 www.SeaQuestor.com
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 15 11:16:55 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 08:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
In-Reply-To: <1394896279.93166.YahooMailBasic@web140903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAHHFyEHTax+PZ4cgGZBHkJFjysbLENDf1ESuDyRM0cVOkzTWtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1394896279.93166.YahooMailBasic@web140903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394896615.26187.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

David, well done.? That is an aggressive time line, but with your well thought out plan you can do it!?? We are quite close geographically, If you want we could get together for that testing.? Lake Taho maybe?? 
Hank



On Saturday, March 15, 2014 9:11:59 AM, Jon Wallace <jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Great article David, very nicely done.? I'll post it on the website and thanks for plugging PSUBS.

Jon


--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 3/15/14, David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Local Article
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
Date: Saturday, March 15, 2014, 1:11 AM

Hi Guys,
This article was just published on me and the
SeaQuestor project, as well as plug for Psubs.org. 

http://santarosa.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2014/03/news/building-dream-man-sub/



Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave

Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com




-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From jonw at psubs.org  Sat Mar 15 11:30:57 2014
From: jonw at psubs.org (Jon Wallace)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:30:57 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation
In-Reply-To: <508ae85c.39469.144c5dc246d.Webtop.53@optonline.net>
References: <508ae85c.39469.144c5dc246d.Webtop.53@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <53247231.7050505@psubs.org>


Photos at http://www.subdb.info/project%20765

http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1383788795&B=1393881964&C=&D=Sanitary 
Tank System


On 3/15/2014 9:09 AM, John Kammerer wrote:
> Hi All:
>
>  I am doing the piping for the boats sanitary tank system. I have two 
> thru-hull valves for pump out (1 1/2") and discharge to sea (1") via a 
> 24v Macerator pump. I am looking to isolate the ball valves from the 
> heavy wall collar penetration. There is the flange valve with gasket 
> and hardware insulators or a rated schedule 80 non-conductive PVC 
> close nipple.
>
>  Also I need to setup the two entry hatches with quick acting wheel 
> with 4 dogs to be operated from either side. I've looked at Juniper 
> Industries products and am looking for other options, any suggestions 
> appreciated.
>
>  John K.
>  Project 765
> (203) 414-1000
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>


From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 15 11:40:19 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 08:40:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation
In-Reply-To: <53247231.7050505@psubs.org>
References: <508ae85c.39469.144c5dc246d.Webtop.53@optonline.net>
 <53247231.7050505@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <1394898019.19639.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi?John
Wow that is a big sub, I would like to hear more about it, size etc
Hank



On Saturday, March 15, 2014 9:30:57 AM, Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:
  

Photos at http://www.subdb.info/project%20765

http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1383788795&B=1393881964&C=&D=Sanitary
Tank System


On 3/15/2014 9:09 AM, John Kammerer wrote:
> Hi All:
>
>? I am doing the piping for the boats sanitary tank system. I have two 
> thru-hull valves for pump out (1 1/2") and discharge to sea (1") via a 
> 24v Macerator pump. I am looking to isolate the ball valves from the 
> heavy wall collar penetration. There is the flange valve with gasket 
> and hardware insulators or a rated schedule 80 non-conductive PVC 
> close nipple.
>
>? Also I need to setup the two entry hatches with quick acting wheel 
> with 4 dogs to be operated from either side. I've looked at Juniper 
> Industries products and am looking for other options, any suggestions 
> appreciated.
>
>? John K.
>? Project 765
> (203) 414-1000
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From subvet596 at optonline.net  Sat Mar 15 20:44:46 2014
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 00:44:46 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation
In-Reply-To: <1394898019.19639.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <508ae85c.39469.144c5dc246d.Webtop.53@optonline.net>
 <53247231.7050505@psubs.org>
 <1394898019.19639.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2107175282-1394930688-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-268045925-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>

Hi Hank:

The boat will be 65' long, 6'-10.5" beam and a draft of 6'. Twin screw diesel electric direct.

John K.
(203) 414-1000 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 08:40:19 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



From subvet596 at optonline.net  Sat Mar 15 20:46:12 2014
From: subvet596 at optonline.net (subvet596 at optonline.net)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 00:46:12 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation
In-Reply-To: <53247231.7050505@psubs.org>
References: <508ae85c.39469.144c5dc246d.Webtop.53@optonline.net>
 <53247231.7050505@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <51657042-1394930774-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-952427712-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>

Thanks Jon.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:30:57 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation


Photos at http://www.subdb.info/project%20765

http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1383788795&B=1393881964&C=&D=Sanitary 
Tank System


On 3/15/2014 9:09 AM, John Kammerer wrote:
> Hi All:
>
>  I am doing the piping for the boats sanitary tank system. I have two 
> thru-hull valves for pump out (1 1/2") and discharge to sea (1") via a 
> 24v Macerator pump. I am looking to isolate the ball valves from the 
> heavy wall collar penetration. There is the flange valve with gasket 
> and hardware insulators or a rated schedule 80 non-conductive PVC 
> close nipple.
>
>  Also I need to setup the two entry hatches with quick acting wheel 
> with 4 dogs to be operated from either side. I've looked at Juniper 
> Industries products and am looking for other options, any suggestions 
> appreciated.
>
>  John K.
>  Project 765
> (203) 414-1000
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar 16 08:07:41 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 05:07:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation
In-Reply-To: <51657042-1394930774-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-952427712-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>
References: <508ae85c.39469.144c5dc246d.Webtop.53@optonline.net>
 <53247231.7050505@psubs.org>
 <51657042-1394930774-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-952427712-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>
Message-ID: <1394971661.83913.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi John,
Wow that is amazing, how far along are you and when do expect to be finished.? Did you fabricate your hull or is it a repurposed pressure vessel.
Hank



On Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:47:26 PM, "subvet596 at optonline.net" <subvet596 at optonline.net> wrote:
  
Thanks Jon.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Wallace <jonw at psubs.org>
Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:30:57 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Galvanic Isolation


Photos at http://www.subdb.info/project%20765

http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1383788795&B=1393881964&C=&D=Sanitary
Tank System


On 3/15/2014 9:09 AM, John Kammerer wrote:
> Hi All:
>
>? I am doing the piping for the boats sanitary tank system. I have two 
> thru-hull valves for pump out (1 1/2") and discharge to sea (1") via a 
> 24v Macerator pump. I am looking to isolate the ball valves from the 
> heavy wall collar penetration. There is the flange valve with gasket 
> and hardware insulators or a rated schedule 80 non-conductive PVC 
> close nipple.
>
>? Also I need to setup the two entry hatches with quick acting wheel 
> with 4 dogs to be operated from either side. I've looked at Juniper 
> Industries products and am looking for other options, any suggestions 
> appreciated.
>
>? John K.
>? Project 765
> (203) 414-1000
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Sun Mar 16 19:49:51 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 16:49:51 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] welding sphere
Message-ID: <20140316164951.BE811C1B@m0005297.ppops.net>

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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:21:46 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:21:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
Message-ID: <1395019306.79946.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

For lack of a more inspired identity, I've named it "SeaHunter."? No doubt that I'll refine this a bit between now and build time, but this what she'll look like.
?
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1371101163/seahunter/
?
Joe
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:34:47 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 20:34:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
In-Reply-To: <1395019306.79946.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395019306.79946.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <1395027287.62955.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Joe,
I still can't see that bow dome!
You look to have the hatch hinged to the stern side of the dome.
If you had it hinged the other side then that flat area at the top of the conning
tower could be used for climbing in & out while keeping your feet dry.
Other than that it looks much better than a trip to Tuscany.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 2:21 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
 


For lack of a more inspired identity, I've named it "SeaHunter."? No doubt that I'll refine this a bit between now and build time, but this what she'll look like.
?
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1371101163/seahunter/
?
Joe
?
?
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 01:52:47 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
In-Reply-To: <1395027287.62955.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395019306.79946.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395027287.62955.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395035567.40750.YahooMailNeo@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan, I'll bet you've been to Tuscany, haven't you?:)
Not visible in that view, a forward dome
will depend on budget at the time of construction. A flat window will suffice
albeit not as nice. 
I'm really thinking hard on making the
prone position the captain's as opposed to the tower. Field of view will be significantly
better than seated in the tower, and ergonomically placed hand controls with an
Alec Smyth style chest support should do the trick nicely in that position.
Besides, in the event of a severe flooding casualty, I wonder about the wisdom
of being physically between the hatch and a severely panicked passenger
fighting for life. That is not a pleasant thought.
The design has poor footing on the
surface. I'm thinking non-skid paint topside and on the saddle tanks. The flat
area behind the hatch will have a vertical thruster there. Maybe a grille
strong enough to step on wouldn't be a bad idea at all!
Lots of refining to do and you've given
me something to think about in entry and egress.
Joe
?



On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:36 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Hi Joe,
I still can't see that bow dome!
You look to have the hatch hinged to the stern side of the dome.
If you had it hinged the other side then that flat area at the top of the conning
tower could be used for climbing in & out while keeping your feet dry.
Other than that it looks much better than a trip to Tuscany.
Alan
 

________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 2:21 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
  


For lack of a more inspired identity, I've named it "SeaHunter."? No doubt that I'll refine this a bit between now and build time, but this what she'll look like.

http://www.psubs.org/projects/1371101163/seahunter/

Joe


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Mar 17 08:09:49 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 05:09:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
In-Reply-To: <1395035567.40750.YahooMailNeo@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395019306.79946.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395027287.62955.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395035567.40750.YahooMailNeo@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395058189.29170.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
Your design looks terrific, but I recommend you make a cardboard life size model of the front half of the hull and mbt.? I think you will find your front mbt? is to low and your idea of piloting from the prone position will be difficult with the restricted visibility.? Also your visibility will be restricted by your manipulators??unless they are tucked up inside the mbt.? I bet most successful subs started out as cardboard.
Hank



On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:55:51 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Alan, I'll bet you've been to Tuscany, haven't you?:)
Not visible in that view, a forward dome
will depend on budget at the time of construction. A flat window will suffice
albeit not as nice. 
I'm really thinking hard on making the
prone position the captain's as opposed to the tower. Field of view will be significantly
better than seated in the tower, and ergonomically placed hand controls with an
Alec Smyth style chest support should do the trick nicely in that position.
Besides, in the event of a severe flooding casualty, I wonder about the wisdom
of being physically between the hatch and a severely panicked passenger
fighting for life. That is not a pleasant thought.
The design has poor footing on the
surface. I'm thinking non-skid paint topside and on the saddle tanks. The flat
area behind the hatch will have a vertical thruster there. Maybe a grille
strong enough to step on wouldn't be a bad idea at all!
Lots of refining to do and you've given
me something to think about in entry and egress.
Joe
?



On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:36 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Hi Joe,
I still can't see that bow dome!
You look to have the hatch hinged to the stern side of the dome.
If you had it hinged the other side then that flat area at the top of the conning
tower could be used for climbing in & out while keeping your feet dry.
Other than that it looks much better than a trip to Tuscany.
Alan
 

________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 2:21 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
  


For lack of a more inspired identity, I've named it "SeaHunter."? No doubt that I'll refine this a bit between now and build time, but this what she'll look like.

http://www.psubs.org/projects/1371101163/seahunter/

Joe


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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 13:36:23 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "SeaHunter"
In-Reply-To: <1395058189.29170.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395077783.54493.YahooMailIosMobile@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,<br/><br/>You've got a good eye my friend!<br/><br/>This preliminary model does show a limited cutout. If you look at the line drawing and follow the curved line, you can get an idea of what the final product would likely look like in side elevation. That line drawing is not mine by the way. It is simply an elevation of the real SeeHund scaled in two dimensions to approximate Sea Hunters profile.<br/><br/>This work to date was a brief study in feasibility and aesthetics to see if I wanted to proceed with real design work or not. Interestingly, the real SeeHund's midsection in section view scales nearly perfectly to a K-350's section view with some minor dimensional and positional differences, but very close. That's why it works aesthetically in reduced scale.<br/><br/>Now comes detail design work with weight and balance calculations. I've got a long slog ahead of me!<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/><a
 href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Wed Mar 19 17:26:03 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:26:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
Message-ID: <1395264363.1928.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Anyone that may be?interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.? It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.? I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.? I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.? I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.? This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
Hank
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 20 15:04:29 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 12:04:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <1395264363.1928.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395264363.1928.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395342269.35809.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Hank,
The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?

The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
I've added a link to the coupler.
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/

Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
 


Anyone that may be?interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.? It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.? I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.? I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.? I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.? This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
Hank
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 20 17:07:06 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <1395342269.35809.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395264363.1928.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395342269.35809.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395349626.4932.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.? There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.? When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.? The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.? If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.? The propeller assembly? can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.? I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak! 
Hank



On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Hi Hank,
The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?

The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
I've added a link to the coupler.
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/

Alan
 

________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
  


Anyone that may be?interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.? It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.? I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.? I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.? I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.? This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


   

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 20 19:57:29 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <1395349626.4932.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395264363.1928.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395342269.35809.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395349626.4932.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395359849.42009.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Hank,
I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to get apart again.
Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other functions on a submarine.
For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the emergency buoy or an ascent
warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet would stop the drum from
rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of the housing slightly you could
control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in the line. If you had a drive on it
it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel in line if there was slack.
I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a good way of warning your tender
or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the ascent.
Alan



________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
 


Alan,
The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.? There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.? When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.? The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.? If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.? The propeller assembly? can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.? I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak! 
Hank



On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Hi Hank,
The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?

The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
I've added a link to the coupler.
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/

Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
 


Anyone that may be?interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.? It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.? I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.? I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.? I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.? This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 20 20:45:26 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <1395359849.42009.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395264363.1928.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395342269.35809.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395349626.4932.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395359849.42009.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395362726.19777.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
It is not to bad to pull apart when you know what to expect.? Now I stand it up and hold the base under my feet and pull it strait up.? It is easier to take apart than put together, weird?? 
Your right, there are more applications for this.
Hank?




On Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:57:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Thanks Hank,
I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to get apart again.
Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other functions on a submarine.
For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the emergency buoy or an ascent
warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet would stop the drum from
rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of the housing slightly you could
control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in the line. If you had a drive on it
it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel in line if there was slack.
I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a good way of warning your tender
or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the ascent.
Alan

 

________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
  


Alan,
The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.? There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.? When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.? The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.? If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.? The propeller assembly? can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.? I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak! 
Hank



On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Hi Hank,
The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?

The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
I've added a link to the coupler.
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/

Alan
 

________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
  


Anyone that may be?interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.? It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.? I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.? I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.? I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.? This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


   

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


   

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Thu Mar 20 21:03:12 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:03:12 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <1395359849.42009.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395264363.1928.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395342269.35809.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395349626.4932.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1395359849.42009.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55AEDDF2-EC94-49F5-8E00-D70C1F98A485@AOL.com>

The air bubble to the surface is a time honored practice for sub ops. Much cheaper than all the electronic tracking gear on Alvin.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Hank,
> I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to get apart again.
> Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other functions on a submarine.
> For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the emergency buoy or an ascent
> warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet would stop the drum from
> rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of the housing slightly you could
> control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in the line. If you had a drive on it
> it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel in line if there was slack.
> I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a good way of warning your tender
> or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
> this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the ascent.
> Alan
> 
> 
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
> 
> Alan,
> The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.  There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.  When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.  The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.  If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.  The propeller assembly  can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.  I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak!
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Hank,
> The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?
> The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
> What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
> If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
> but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
> I've added a link to the coupler.
> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
> Alan
> 
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
> 
> Anyone that may be interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.  It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.  I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.  I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.  I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.  This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
> Hank
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Fri Mar 21 01:21:40 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 22:21:40 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
Message-ID: <20140320222140.BE8169A4@m0005298.ppops.net>

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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Fri Mar 21 04:05:42 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 04:05:42 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <20140320222140.BE8169A4@m0005298.ppops.net>
References: <20140320222140.BE8169A4@m0005298.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <59B33681-94F8-499D-8FA6-188D9F3E9580@AOL.com>

Vent from mbt--you do it anyway to slow ascent, then do it some more to hover at fifty feet so the surface support boat can find you. 
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 1:21 AM, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there a preferred method of releasing a big bubble?
> 
> --- VBra676539 at AOL.com wrote:
> 
> From: Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:03:12 -0400
> 
> The air bubble to the surface is a time honored practice for sub ops. Much cheaper than all the electronic tracking gear on Alvin.
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Hank,
> I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to get apart again.
> Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other functions on a submarine.
> For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the emergency buoy or an ascent
> warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet would stop the drum from
> rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of the housing slightly you could
> control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in the line. If you had a drive on it
> it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel in line if there was slack.
> I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a good way of warning your tender
> or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
> this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the ascent.
> Alan
> 
> 
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
> 
> Alan,
> The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.  There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.  When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.  The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.  If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.  The propeller assembly  can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.  I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak!
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Hank,
> The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?
> The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
> What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
> If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
> but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
> I've added a link to the coupler.
> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
> Alan
> 
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
> 
> Anyone that may be interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.  It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.  I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.  I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.  I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.  This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
> Hank
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 21 05:26:05 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 05:26:05 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <59B33681-94F8-499D-8FA6-188D9F3E9580@AOL.com>
References: <20140320222140.BE8169A4@m0005298.ppops.net>
 <59B33681-94F8-499D-8FA6-188D9F3E9580@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <81C785C6-ABBD-41D4-BEDB-D837EED8434A@yahoo.com>

...and perhaps an vertical facing flood lamp for night ops? Or is normal lighting adequate?

Joe

Sent from my overpriced 
iPhone

On Mar 21, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:

> Vent from mbt--you do it anyway to slow ascent, then do it some more to hover at fifty feet so the surface support boat can find you. 
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 1:21 AM, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> 
>> Is there a preferred method of releasing a big bubble?
>> 
>> --- VBra676539 at AOL.com wrote:
>> 
>> From: Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:03:12 -0400
>> 
>> The air bubble to the surface is a time honored practice for sub ops. Much cheaper than all the electronic tracking gear on Alvin.
>> Vance
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Hank,
>> I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to get apart again.
>> Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other functions on a submarine.
>> For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the emergency buoy or an ascent
>> warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet would stop the drum from
>> rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of the housing slightly you could
>> control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in the line. If you had a drive on it
>> it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel in line if there was slack.
>> I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a good way of warning your tender
>> or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
>> this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the ascent.
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>> 
>> Alan,
>> The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.  There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.  When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.  The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.  If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.  The propeller assembly  can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.  I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak!
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi Hank,
>> The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?
>> The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
>> What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
>> If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
>> but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
>> I've added a link to the coupler.
>> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
>> Alan
>> 
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>> 
>> Anyone that may be interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.  It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.  I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.  I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.  I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.  This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
>> Hank
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From vbra676539 at aol.com  Fri Mar 21 06:14:16 2014
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:14:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <81C785C6-ABBD-41D4-BEDB-D837EED8434A@yahoo.com>
References: <20140320222140.BE8169A4@m0005298.ppops.net>
 <59B33681-94F8-499D-8FA6-188D9F3E9580@AOL.com>
 <81C785C6-ABBD-41D4-BEDB-D837EED8434A@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D113057348BF23-1458-2FC95@webmail-va052.sysops.aol.com>

The coolest thing about night ops (for the surface crew) is seeing the sub lights way down deep and watching her all the way up. Of course, the really coolest thing is being down there doing it.....as long as the coffee is still hot. You won't need a vertical lamp, although a xenon flasher with a pressure switch is mighty nice to have, as you can see that little guy for miles.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 5:26 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler



...and perhaps an vertical facing flood lamp for night ops? Or is normal lighting adequate?


Joe

Sent from my overpriced 
iPhone


On Mar 21, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:



Vent from mbt--you do it anyway to slow ascent, then do it some more to hover at fifty feet so the surface support boat can find you. 
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 21, 2014, at 1:21 AM, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:



Is there a preferred method of releasing a big bubble?

--- VBra676539 at AOL.com wrote:

From: Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:03:12 -0400


The air bubble to the surface is a time honored practice for sub ops. Much cheaper than all the electronic tracking gear on Alvin.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:




Thanks Hank,
I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to get apart again.
Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other functions on a submarine.
For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the emergency buoy or an ascent
warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet would stop the drum from
rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of the housing slightly you could
control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in the line. If you had a drive on it
it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel in line if there was slack.
I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a good way of warning your tender
or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the ascent.
Alan




  
 
 
 
   From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
  
 



Alan,
The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.  There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.  When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.  The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.  If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.  The propeller assembly  can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.  I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak! 
Hank
 
 
 
 
 
  On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
  


Hi Hank,
The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?

The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
I've added a link to the coupler.

http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/

Alan


  
 
 
 
   From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
  
 



Anyone that may be interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.  It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.  I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.  I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.  I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.  This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
Hank


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



 
 
  



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




  
 
  
 



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




 
 
  


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 21 08:38:17 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 05:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
Message-ID: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
Hank
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From jimtoddpsub at aol.com  Fri Mar 21 09:06:19 2014
From: jimtoddpsub at aol.com (Jim Todd)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:06:19 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AF741E88-6AC5-42F4-BAE8-B1679D83F5DE@aol.com>

Hank,
First, if a magnet sticks it's not titanium. Touching titanium with a grinder should produce white sparks.  It has low thermal conductivity so it won't feel as cold as touching iron or steel.  That test only works if the piece is relatively cool. Not inside your house at room temp.  Hopefully someone can offer something more definitive.  What type of object?
Jim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 7:38 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
> Hank
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From kocpnt at tds.net  Fri Mar 21 09:15:08 2014
From: kocpnt at tds.net (kocpnt tds.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:15:08 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <AF741E88-6AC5-42F4-BAE8-B1679D83F5DE@aol.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <AF741E88-6AC5-42F4-BAE8-B1679D83F5DE@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwUQvL8=-w_Xs9L8FfHA9LGno6DopeMD_KPpN-u9YUK8OJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I'm far from an expert, however I'd use extreme caution with a grinder.

If it's magnesium it might start a fire you cannot put out!

If memory serves, I think they are similar in color in their natural state.

My two cents,

Jim K


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:

> Hank,
> First, if a magnet sticks it's not titanium. Touching titanium with a
> grinder should produce white sparks.  It has low thermal conductivity so it
> won't feel as cold as touching iron or steel.  That test only works if the
> piece is relatively cool. Not inside your house at room temp.  Hopefully
> someone can offer something more definitive.  What type of object?
> Jim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 7:38 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
> Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:24:24 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <8D113057348BF23-1458-2FC95@webmail-va052.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20140320222140.BE8169A4@m0005298.ppops.net>
 <59B33681-94F8-499D-8FA6-188D9F3E9580@AOL.com>
 <81C785C6-ABBD-41D4-BEDB-D837EED8434A@yahoo.com>
 <8D113057348BF23-1458-2FC95@webmail-va052.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1395408264.90503.YahooMailNeo@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

That one picture of Great White lit up dockside in that lake is truly awesome. I really like the idea of night ops. Thanks Vance.

Joe





On Friday, March 21, 2014 6:16 AM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
 
The coolest thing about night ops (for the surface crew) is seeing the sub lights way down deep and watching her all the way up. Of course, the really coolest thing is being down there doing it.....as long as the coffee is still hot. You won't need a vertical lamp, although a xenon flasher with a pressure switch is mighty nice to have, as you can see that little guy for miles. 
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 5:26 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler


...and perhaps an vertical facing flood lamp for night ops? Or is normal lighting adequate?

Joe

Sent from my overpriced? 
iPhone

On Mar 21, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:


Vent from mbt--you do it anyway to slow ascent, then do it some more to hover at fifty feet so the surface support boat can find you.?
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 21, 2014, at 1:21 AM, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>
>
>Is there a preferred method of releasing a big bubble?
>>
>>--- VBra676539 at AOL.com wrote:
>>
>>From: Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>>Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:03:12 -0400
>>
>>
>>The air bubble to the surface is a time honored practice for sub ops. Much cheaper than all the electronic tracking gear on Alvin.
>>Vance
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Thanks Hank,
>>>I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to get apart again.
>>>Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other functions on a submarine.
>>>For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the emergency buoy or an ascent
>>>warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet would stop the drum from
>>>rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of the housing slightly you could
>>>control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in the line. If you had a drive on it
>>>it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel in line if there was slack.
>>>I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a good way of warning your tender
>>>or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
>>>this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the ascent.
>>>Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>Alan,
>>>The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water out of the sub.? There is a magnet inside the barrier that is connected to the propeller shaft.? When you assemble this thing you need to be real carful.? The first time I slid the magnet assemblies together I almost lost a finger.? If the propeller gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to be.? The propeller assembly? can still drop off in an emergency, that is all the same still.? I am pretty happy with the whole conversion, it can not leak! 
>>>Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hi Hank,
>>>The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a rotating magnet?
>>>
>>>The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet (oil filter) portion.
>>>What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the two magnetic portions apart?
>>>If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet would still rotate
>>>but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's obstruction from the coupler?
>>>I've added a link to the coupler.
>>>http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
>>>
>>>Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
>>>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>Anyone that may be?interested, I posted a couple of pictures of my magnetic drive coupler assembly.? It is kinda chunky at about 9in long.? I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is incredible how strong it is.? I pressure tested the assembly to 625 psi for one hr with no issues.? I will oil fill the shaft tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against corrosion.? This was a simple two day conversion with minimal machining required.
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

_______________________________________________
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:30:32 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <CAGbdwUQvL8=-w_Xs9L8FfHA9LGno6DopeMD_KPpN-u9YUK8OJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <AF741E88-6AC5-42F4-BAE8-B1679D83F5DE@aol.com>
 <CAGbdwUQvL8=-w_Xs9L8FfHA9LGno6DopeMD_KPpN-u9YUK8OJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1395408632.74448.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I once ground nicked dovetail slots back to specs on the No#1 Fan Disk of the GE CF6-50, (DC 10, Airbus). 

Jim is correct, it's non ferrous. However, Jim K is also correct, magnesium is bad news.

Joe





On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:17 AM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:
 
Hi All,

I'm far from an expert, however I'd use extreme caution with a grinder.

If it's magnesium it might start a fire you cannot put out!

If memory serves, I think they are similar in color in their natural state.

My two cents,

Jim K?



On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:

Hank,
>First, if a magnet sticks it's not titanium. Touching titanium with a grinder should produce white sparks. ?It has low thermal conductivity so it won't feel as cold as touching iron or steel. ?That test only works if the piece is relatively cool. Not inside your house at room temp. ?Hopefully someone can offer something more definitive. ?What type of object?
>Jim
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 21, 2014, at 7:38 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
>>Hank
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
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From lanceind at gmail.com  Fri Mar 21 09:42:36 2014
From: lanceind at gmail.com (Daniel Lance Lance)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:42:36 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of
precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
 On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
> Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From jimtoddpsub at aol.com  Fri Mar 21 10:10:26 2014
From: jimtoddpsub at aol.com (Jim Todd)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:10:26 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>

Hank,
Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a university.  Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test may or may not tell you much.
Jim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance <lanceind at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
>> On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
>> Hank
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 21 10:39:42 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks' guys,
I am just curious if the barrier in my magnetic coupler is titanium.? It is not magnetic of coarse but it is either ss or titanium, I think ?
Hank



On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:10:55 AM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
  
Hank,
Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a university. ?Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test may or may not tell you much.
Jim

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance <lanceind at gmail.com> wrote:


Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
> 
>On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
>>Hank 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>> 
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From jon at pettersen-prod.com  Fri Mar 21 11:41:17 2014
From: jon at pettersen-prod.com (Jon Eide Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:41:17 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
 <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP361CE73727FCC0AECAB9303D3790@phx.gbl>

Can you weigh the barrier by itself? Then it should be easy to determine 
whether it is SS or titanium.

- Jon
Den 21.03.2014 15:39, skrev hank pronk:
> Thanks' guys,
> I am just curious if the barrier in my magnetic coupler is titanium.  
> It is not magnetic of coarse but it is either ss or titanium, I think ?
> Hank
>
>
> On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:10:55 AM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> 
> wrote:
> Hank,
> Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a 
> university.  Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test 
> may or may not tell you much.
> Jim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance <lanceind at gmail.com 
> <mailto:lanceind at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large 
>> quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their 
>> XRF machine.
>> On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca 
>> <mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>     Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing
>>     material.
>>     Hank
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 21 12:58:22 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:58:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP361CE73727FCC0AECAB9303D3790@phx.gbl>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
 <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <BLU0-SMTP361CE73727FCC0AECAB9303D3790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1395421102.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jon,
The barrier is welded to a heavy ring that secures it to the housing.? I could submerge it in water and measure the displacement to get the volume.? I never thought of that,grrrrr.? It is all assembled and going in the sub in a few minutes, so I will get a volume of it next time it is apart.
thanks' that is a good idea
Hank




On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:41:47 AM, Jon Eide Pettersen <jon at pettersen-prod.com> wrote:
  
Can you weigh the barrier by itself? Then it should be easy to determine whether it is SS or titanium.

- Jon

Den 21.03.2014 15:39, skrev hank pronk:
 
Thanks' guys, 
>I am just curious if the barrier in my magnetic coupler is titanium.? It is not magnetic of coarse but it is either ss or titanium, I think ? 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:10:55 AM, Jim Todd mailto:jimtoddpsub at aol.com wrote:
>  
>Hank, 
>Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a university. ?Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test may or may not tell you much. 
>Jim
>
>Sent from my iPhone 
>
>On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance
                        <lanceind at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
>Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
>> 
>>On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material. 
>>>Hank   
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>     
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>    
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>     
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles   


_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From jimtoddpsub at aol.com  Fri Mar 21 13:02:03 2014
From: jimtoddpsub at aol.com (Jim Todd)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:02:03 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <1395421102.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
 <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <BLU0-SMTP361CE73727FCC0AECAB9303D3790@phx.gbl>
 <1395421102.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F4972663-CBF7-4C1A-9A50-F08EE3560D3A@aol.com>

Hank, does it matter or just curious?
Jim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:58 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Jon,
> The barrier is welded to a heavy ring that secures it to the housing.  I could submerge it in water and measure the displacement to get the volume.  I never thought of that,grrrrr.  It is all assembled and going in the sub in a few minutes, so I will get a volume of it next time it is apart.
> thanks' that is a good idea
> Hank
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:41:47 AM, Jon Eide Pettersen <jon at pettersen-prod.com> wrote:
> Can you weigh the barrier by itself? Then it should be easy to determine whether it is SS or titanium.
> 
> - Jon
> Den 21.03.2014 15:39, skrev hank pronk:
>> Thanks' guys,
>> I am just curious if the barrier in my magnetic coupler is titanium.  It is not magnetic of coarse but it is either ss or titanium, I think ?
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:10:55 AM, Jim Todd mailto:jimtoddpsub at aol.com wrote:
>> Hank,
>> Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a university.  Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test may or may not tell you much.
>> Jim
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance <lanceind at gmail.com>                         wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
>>> On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 21 13:43:36 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 10:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <F4972663-CBF7-4C1A-9A50-F08EE3560D3A@aol.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
 <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <BLU0-SMTP361CE73727FCC0AECAB9303D3790@phx.gbl>
 <1395421102.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <F4972663-CBF7-4C1A-9A50-F08EE3560D3A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1395423816.10606.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jim,
No makes no difference, it pressure tested to 1,500 feet-ish?, that is plenty.? When I brag to my coffee buddies about my magnetic coupler, it sounds better if I can throw the word titanium.? :-)
Hank




On Friday, March 21, 2014 11:02:03 AM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
  
Hank, does it matter or just curious?
Jim

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:58 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Jon,
>The barrier is welded to a heavy ring that secures it to the housing.? I could submerge it in water and measure the displacement to get the volume.? I never thought of that,grrrrr.? It is all assembled and going in the sub in a few minutes, so I will get a volume of it next time it is apart.
>thanks' that is a good idea
>Hank
>
>
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:41:47 AM, Jon Eide Pettersen <jon at pettersen-prod.com> wrote:
>  
>Can you weigh the barrier by itself? Then it should be easy to determine whether it is SS or titanium.
>
>- Jon
>
>Den 21.03.2014 15:39, skrev hank pronk:
> 
>Thanks' guys, 
>>I am just curious if the barrier in my magnetic coupler is titanium.? It is not magnetic of coarse but it is either ss or titanium, I think ? 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:10:55 AM, Jim Todd mailto:jimtoddpsub at aol.com wrote:
>>  
>>Hank, 
>>Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a university. ?Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test may or may not tell you much. 
>>Jim
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone 
>>
>>On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance
                        <lanceind at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
>>> 
>>>On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material. 
>>>>Hank   
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>     
>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>    
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>
>>     
>> 
>>
>>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles   
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
_______________________________________________
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>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

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From jimtoddpsub at aol.com  Fri Mar 21 14:05:04 2014
From: jimtoddpsub at aol.com (Jim Todd)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:05:04 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <1395423816.10606.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
 <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <BLU0-SMTP361CE73727FCC0AECAB9303D3790@phx.gbl>
 <1395421102.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <F4972663-CBF7-4C1A-9A50-F08EE3560D3A@aol.com>
 <1395423816.10606.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6C561BA3-5737-4300-ABDA-ECCF1C59EA82@aol.com>

Aw, Hank, go ahead.  They'll never know the difference. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 12:43 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> No makes no difference, it pressure tested to 1,500 feet-ish , that is plenty.  When I brag to my coffee buddies about my magnetic coupler, it sounds better if I can throw the word titanium.  :-)
> Hank
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 21, 2014 11:02:03 AM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
> Hank, does it matter or just curious?
> Jim
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:58 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Jon,
>> The barrier is welded to a heavy ring that secures it to the housing.  I could submerge it in water and measure the displacement to get the volume.  I never thought of that,grrrrr.  It is all assembled and going in the sub in a few minutes, so I will get a volume of it next time it is apart.
>> thanks' that is a good idea
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:41:47 AM, Jon Eide Pettersen <jon at pettersen-prod.com> wrote:
>> Can you weigh the barrier by itself? Then it should be easy to determine whether it is SS or titanium.
>> 
>> - Jon
>> Den 21.03.2014 15:39, skrev hank pronk:
>>> Thanks' guys,
>>> I am just curious if the barrier in my magnetic coupler is titanium.  It is not magnetic of coarse but it is either ss or titanium, I think ?
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:10:55 AM, Jim Todd mailto:jimtoddpsub at aol.com wrote:
>>> Hank,
>>> Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a university.  Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test may or may not tell you much.
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance <lanceind at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
>>>> On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>> Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 21 14:50:56 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 11:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
In-Reply-To: <6C561BA3-5737-4300-ABDA-ECCF1C59EA82@aol.com>
References: <1395405497.44877.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAeCABtzDb9AnSiv_1Fnpq=zU+fERPdBqFvcZHGD73ofwy==+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <956833DA-6F82-497C-B8C2-95E8321FBF0A@aol.com>
 <1395412782.83016.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <BLU0-SMTP361CE73727FCC0AECAB9303D3790@phx.gbl>
 <1395421102.26484.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <F4972663-CBF7-4C1A-9A50-F08EE3560D3A@aol.com>
 <1395423816.10606.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <6C561BA3-5737-4300-ABDA-ECCF1C59EA82@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1395427856.47242.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
hit it really hard with a hammer, it will make a different sound when it cracks
than stainless. There are some other thoughts here...
http://mrtitanium.info/2008/03/17/how-to-tell-if-a-piece-of-metal-is-really-titanium/

Alan

________________________________
 From: Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] identify titanium
 


Aw, Hank, go ahead. ?They'll never know the difference.?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 21, 2014, at 12:43 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Jim,
>No makes no difference, it pressure tested to 1,500 feet-ish?, that is plenty.? When I brag to my coffee buddies about my magnetic coupler, it sounds better if I can throw the word titanium.? :-)
>Hank
>
>
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 21, 2014 11:02:03 AM, Jim Todd <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>Hank, does it matter or just curious?
>Jim
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:58 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Jon,
>>The barrier is welded to a heavy ring that secures it to the housing.? I could submerge it in water and measure the displacement to get the volume.? I never thought of that,grrrrr.? It is all assembled and going in the sub in a few minutes, so I will get a volume of it next time it is apart.
>>thanks' that is a good idea
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:41:47 AM, Jon Eide Pettersen <jon at pettersen-prod.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Can you weigh the barrier by itself? Then it should be easy to determine whether it is SS or titanium.
>>
>>- Jon
>>
>>Den 21.03.2014 15:39, skrev hank pronk:
>>
>>Thanks' guys,
>>>I am just curious if the barrier in my magnetic coupler is titanium.? It is not magnetic of coarse but it is either ss or titanium, I think ?
>>>Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 21, 2014 8:10:55 AM, Jim Todd mailto:jimtoddpsub at aol.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hank,
>>>Dan's answer is the best I know; maybe a metallurgy lab at a university. ?Whatever metal it's likely an alloy so the magnet test may or may not tell you much.
>>>Jim
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Daniel Lance Lance
                        <lanceind at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Do you have any large scrap yards or someone that buys large quantities of precious metals nearby ? They can do a test with their XRF machine.
>>>>
>>>>On Mar 21, 2014 8:39 AM, "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Can anyone tell me how to identify titanium without removing material.
>>>>>Hank
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

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From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Fri Mar 21 22:07:39 2014
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:07:39 +1300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Message-ID: <532cf06c.a642420a.5e5e.ffff8a60@mx.google.com>

 

Hi All,  Has anyone any steer on a decent brushless motor controller
supplier.

I am using 72 volts and 144 volts  1.5 kw and 15 kw motors.

I have had some failures with Kelly controllers from china and running a bit
scared of continuing with them.  Hugh

 



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9564 (20140319) __________

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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:13:05 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nose Art
Message-ID: <1395497585.8214.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Well, what can I say. 

The P-40 Warhawk has always been a favorite so,..naturally....

Joe
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From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Sat Mar 22 10:23:29 2014
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 10:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nose Art
Message-ID: <ba38c.7ec5b3f5.405ef6e1@aol.com>

Ultra cool, Joe.  That thing is going to look great in or  out of the water.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 3/22/2014 9:14:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:

Well,  what can I say. 

The P-40 Warhawk has always been a favorite  so,..naturally....

Joe




_______________________________________________
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From cast55 at telus.net  Sat Mar 22 10:25:41 2014
From: cast55 at telus.net (Sean T. Stevenson)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 08:25:41 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
In-Reply-To: <8D113057348BF23-1458-2FC95@webmail-va052.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20140320222140.BE8169A4@m0005298.ppops.net>
 <59B33681-94F8-499D-8FA6-188D9F3E9580@AOL.com>
 <81C785C6-ABBD-41D4-BEDB-D837EED8434A@yahoo.com>
 <8D113057348BF23-1458-2FC95@webmail-va052.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <532D9D65.2090804@telus.net>

How much current does a coffee maker draw?

Sean

On 2014-03-21 04:14, vbra676539 at aol.com wrote:
> The coolest thing about night ops (for the surface crew) is seeing the
> sub lights way down deep and watching her all the way up. Of course,
> the really coolest thing is being down there doing it.....as long as
> the coffee is still hot. You won't need a vertical lamp, although a
> xenon flasher with a pressure switch is mighty nice to have, as you
> can see that little guy for miles.
> Vance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 5:26 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>
> ...and perhaps an vertical facing flood lamp for night ops? Or is
> normal lighting adequate?
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from my overpriced 
> iPhone
>
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com
> <mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com>> wrote:
>
>> Vent from mbt--you do it anyway to slow ascent, then do it some more
>> to hover at fifty feet so the surface support boat can find you. 
>> Vance
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 1:21 AM, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com
>> <mailto:brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a preferred method of releasing a big bubble?
>>>
>>> --- VBra676539 at AOL.com <mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com <mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com>>
>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>>> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:03:12 -0400
>>>
>>> The air bubble to the surface is a time honored practice for sub
>>> ops. Much cheaper than all the electronic tracking gear on Alvin.
>>> Vance
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 20, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com
>>> <mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Thanks Hank,
>>>     I was thinking it would come together fast. Might be a sod to
>>>     get apart again.
>>>     Maybe you could use a smaller magnetic coupler for other
>>>     functions on a submarine.
>>>     For instance it could be the axle in a drum of cord that the
>>>     emergency buoy or an ascent
>>>     warning buoy could be released with. The power of the magnet
>>>     would stop the drum from
>>>     rotating & releasing line, but if you pulled the magnet out of
>>>     the housing slightly you could
>>>     control the release speed of the buoy & avoid a birds nest in
>>>     the line. If you had a drive on it
>>>     it could be set to slip against the buoancy of he buoy but reel
>>>     in line if there was slack.
>>>     I've thought that sending up a buoy before ascending would be a
>>>     good way of warning your tender
>>>     or any other pleasure craft. The tourist subs in Hawaii send up
>>>     a huge bubble of air. The tender spots
>>>     this & radios an acknowledgement that they are clear before the
>>>     ascent.
>>>     Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>     *From:* hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca
>>>     <mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>>
>>>     *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>>>     *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2014 10:07 AM
>>>     *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>>>
>>>     Alan,
>>>     The oil filter looking part is the barrier that keeps the water
>>>     out of the sub.  There is a magnet inside the barrier that is
>>>     connected to the propeller shaft.  When you assemble this thing
>>>     you need to be real carful.  The first time I slid the magnet
>>>     assemblies together I almost lost a finger.  If the propeller
>>>     gets jammed, the magnet drive would slip like a clutch. It would
>>>     take a lot though, my magnet drive is bigger than it needs to
>>>     be.  The propeller assembly  can still drop off in an emergency,
>>>     that is all the same still.  I am pretty happy with the whole
>>>     conversion, it can not leak!
>>>     Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:04:29 PM, Alan James
>>>     <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com <mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>>
>>>     wrote:
>>>     Hi Hank,
>>>     The part that looks like an oil filter is the covering over a
>>>     rotating magnet?
>>>     The second part is the full assembly that fits over the magnet
>>>     (oil filter) portion.
>>>     What sort of force is involved when you put together or pull the
>>>     two magnetic portions apart?
>>>     If you jammed the propellor on something the internal magnet
>>>     would still rotate
>>>     but can it pull apart separating the propellor & it's
>>>     obstruction from the coupler?
>>>     I've added a link to the coupler.
>>>     http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
>>>     Alan
>>>
>>>     *From:* hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca
>>>     <mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>>
>>>     *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>>>     *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:26 AM
>>>     *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] magnetic coupler
>>>
>>>     Anyone that may be interested, I posted a couple of pictures of
>>>     my magnetic drive coupler assembly.  It is kinda chunky at about
>>>     9in long.  I can NOT overpower the coupler by hand, it is
>>>     incredible how strong it is.  I pressure tested the assembly to
>>>     625 psi for one hr with no issues.  I will oil fill the shaft
>>>     tube to lubricate the outboard shaft bearing and protect against
>>>     corrosion.  This was a simple two day conversion with minimal
>>>     machining required.
>>>     Hank
>>>

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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Sat Mar 22 10:53:23 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 07:53:23 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Message-ID: <20140322075323.BE8CED16@m0048138.ppops.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 22 11:30:58 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 08:30:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
In-Reply-To: <20140322075323.BE8CED16@m0048138.ppops.net>
References: <20140322075323.BE8CED16@m0048138.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395502258.71721.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I recently read my manual for the Curtis controller.??The controller has some nice features, like protecting your batteries.? When the controller?detects a voltage below 16V in a 24 v system, the controller goes into battery save mode and reduces the available current.? Must be a get home feature.? There are other nice features also. I had to figure out why there were two extra potentiometers in Gamma.? The controller has a feature where you can control the max current and acceleration.? I guess the fact that there are about a billion golf carts with Curtis controllers says it all.

Hank?



On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:53:42 AM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
The Curtis controllers are the best

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:07:39 +1300

?
Hi All,? Has anyone any steer on a decent brushless motor controller supplier.
I am using 72 volts and 144 volts? 1.5 kw and 15 kw motors.
I have had some failures with Kelly controllers from china and running a bit scared of continuing with them.? Hugh
?


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_______________________________________________
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 22 21:16:40 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 21:16:40 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nose Art
In-Reply-To: <ba38c.7ec5b3f5.405ef6e1@aol.com>
References: <ba38c.7ec5b3f5.405ef6e1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <08FEA89F-8504-4648-97FA-BC7D215AB07A@yahoo.com>

Thanks Jim, I figured you to like the P-40 as well.

Out in the wild, measuring my workspace,..again

Joe


On Mar 22, 2014, at 10:23 AM, JimToddPsub at aol.com wrote:

> Ultra cool, Joe.  That thing is going to look great in or out of the water.
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 3/22/2014 9:14:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  josephperkel at yahoo.com writes:
> Well, what can I say. 
> 
> The P-40 Warhawk has always been a favorite so,..naturally....
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sat Mar 22 23:23:48 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 22:23:48 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
Message-ID: <7dj7iv5r6o2dx0sbq7yucgo9.1395544851935@email.android.com>

Alec,
I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Sun Mar 23 06:23:48 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Private)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 07:23:48 -0300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
In-Reply-To: <7dj7iv5r6o2dx0sbq7yucgo9.1395544851935@email.android.com>
References: <7dj7iv5r6o2dx0sbq7yucgo9.1395544851935@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <D6A986E6-9862-45E0-BA28-6CADC1FF1C88@gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay. 

I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minutes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to begin with.

We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!

Best,

Alec



> On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> Alec,
> I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Mar 23 09:22:07 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 08:22:07 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
Message-ID: <obnstibff8fuc03vs80ykbge.1395580866318@email.android.com>

Ok. I think I am going to order a extra valve. Do you remember the swagelock number for that valve?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphonePrivate <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:Hi Scott,

My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay.?

I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minutes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to begin with.

We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!

Best,

Alec



On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Alec,
I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From cast55 at telus.net  Sun Mar 23 09:04:46 2014
From: cast55 at telus.net (Sean T. Stevenson)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 07:04:46 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
In-Reply-To: <D6A986E6-9862-45E0-BA28-6CADC1FF1C88@gmail.com>
References: <7dj7iv5r6o2dx0sbq7yucgo9.1395544851935@email.android.com>
 <D6A986E6-9862-45E0-BA28-6CADC1FF1C88@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2bfbd617-35d4-4889-a0e1-eeeddd3db018@email.android.com>

Needle valves are designed as fine metering / flow control valves. While they can be used as shut off valves, maximum stem / seat life is obtained by incorporating an on / off valve upstream of the metering valve, and using this for shutoff so you don't ever have to torque down the needle valve to reliably cut flow to zero. Most automatically operated flow control valves fail open in their standard configurations for this reason, as it improves repeatability.

Also, be aware of the tightness of the packing nut around the valve stem, as leaks often occur here. If you want to get fancy, you can use a fine resolution / low range torque wrench on the stem, but for these small Swagelok valves it is usually sufficient to just feel the resistance to turning the knob.  You want enough compression on the packing to eliminate leaks and prevent vibration from possibly moving the valve out of position. Any more than that just increases wear on the packing and friction on the stem, making it more difficult to perform fine adjustments.

Sean



Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi Scott,
>
>My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the
>little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold
>properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got
>into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I
>was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was
>just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the
>manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on
>eBay. 
>
>I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something
>has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and
>I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after
>winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a
>speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running,
>and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few
>minutes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made
>some relays "sticky" to begin with.
>
>We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!
>
>Best,
>
>Alec
>
>
>
>> On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Alec,
>> I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a
>malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for
>this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same
>needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair
>it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in
>the open position. Do you think that is correct?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-- 
Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar 23 10:47:44 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 07:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1395586064.71526.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a submarine, and owning a submarine makes you happy.
Hank
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Sun Mar 23 11:07:01 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Alec Smyth)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 11:07:01 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
In-Reply-To: <obnstibff8fuc03vs80ykbge.1395580866318@email.android.com>
References: <obnstibff8fuc03vs80ykbge.1395580866318@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6cFMU1ASZM-EkiScRKXzZAErTt8Gjq2W5iyBxfrUo2yw@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I'm in Argentina at present so can't just walk over to the sub to
look it up. But the one I bought on eBay says 14DKM4-S4-A. These things are
crazily expensive if bought new, I'd try to find them on eBay if possible!

Best,

Alec


On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 9:22 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Ok. I think I am going to order a extra valve. Do you remember the
> swagelock number for that valve?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little
> HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after
> cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and
> interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but
> one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a
> good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for
> cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay.
>
> I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something
> has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and
> I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after
> winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed
> controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this
> year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minutes but has
> acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to
> begin with.
>
> We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> Alec,
> I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on
> the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and
> noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did
> you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based
> on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you
> think that is correct?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Mar 23 10:59:55 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 09:59:55 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
Message-ID: <u9cyxnn5d8q1j6e3skbv3sqe.1395586489231@email.android.com>

Thanks for the info Sean. ?My valve that failed had a ever so slight leak from the get go. Over the winter it was in the closed position and when I charged the system, it had a pretty noticable leak. The other two valves work great. I am going to order another valve and run it this season with alot of dives and see how she works.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Sean T. Stevenson" <cast55 at telus.net> wrote:Needle valves are designed as fine metering / flow control valves. While they can be used as shut off valves, maximum stem / seat life is obtained by incorporating an on / off valve upstream of the metering valve, and using this for shutoff so you don't ever have to torque down the needle valve to reliably cut flow to zero. Most automatically operated flow control valves fail open in their standard configurations for this reason, as it improves repeatability.

Also, be aware of the tightness of the packing nut around the valve stem, as leaks often occur here. If you want to get fancy, you can use a fine resolution / low range torque wrench on the stem, but for these small Swagelok valves it is usually sufficient to just feel the resistance to turning the knob.? You want enough compression on the packing to eliminate leaks and prevent vibration from possibly moving the valve out of position. Any more than that just increases wear on the packing and friction on the stem, making it more difficult to perform fine adjustments.

Sean



Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Scott,

My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay.?

I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minu! tes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to begin with.

We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!

Best,

Alec



On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Alec,
I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-- 
Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From cast55 at telus.net  Sun Mar 23 11:49:42 2014
From: cast55 at telus.net (Sean T. Stevenson)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 09:49:42 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
In-Reply-To: <u9cyxnn5d8q1j6e3skbv3sqe.1395586489231@email.android.com>
References: <u9cyxnn5d8q1j6e3skbv3sqe.1395586489231@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <532F0296.4000304@telus.net>

This also serves as a good reminder to flush all valve / piping
components, and newly assembled systems with everything fully open,
before placing in service in order to eliminate any particles that could
cause damage, and to employ filters upstream of sensitive valves.  I
typically use a 40 micron filter between the gas supply (or point
subject to frequent connection / disconnection) and any sensitive valves
in any system where doing so is not prohibited by flow rate requirements.

Sean


On 2014-03-23 08:59, swaters wrote:
> Thanks for the info Sean.  My valve that failed had a ever so slight
> leak from the get go. Over the winter it was in the closed position
> and when I charged the system, it had a pretty noticable leak. The
> other two valves work great. I am going to order another valve and run
> it this season with alot of dives and see how she works.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>

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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Mar 23 12:11:17 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 11:11:17 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
Message-ID: <2oa5ddyadoohvowo88stpsys.1395591020963@email.android.com>

Argintina sounds fun! No prob. I have it written down somewhere. My record keeping practices could be much better. Haha.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:Sorry, I'm in Argentina at present so can't just walk over to the sub to look it up. But the one I bought on eBay says 14DKM4-S4-A. These things are crazily expensive if bought new, I'd try to find them on eBay if possible!

Best,

Alec?


On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 9:22 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Ok. I think I am going to order a extra valve. Do you remember the swagelock number for that valve?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Scott,

My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay.?

I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minutes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to begin with.

We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!

Best,

Alec



On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Alec,
I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 23 12:40:54 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 12:40:54 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1395586064.71526.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395586064.71526.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AEF6755F-2798-4FD6-9949-B0B51265EE00@yahoo.com>

Hank, apparently Alexander the Great agreed with you!

Joe

On Mar 23, 2014, at 10:47 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a submarine, and owning a submarine makes you happy.
> Hank
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar 23 14:11:12 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 11:11:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] titanium barrier
Message-ID: <1395598272.53132.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Today I discovered that I did not leave enough clearance between my new drive hub and housing for my reach rods that release the propeller, grrrr.? I had to remove the entire assembly to make a modification.? 
Since it is all apart I decided to do a volume measurement to determine if the barrier is ss or titanium.? By my calculations it is titanium.? The barrier is 139.5 cc and the part weighs 749grams.? Titanium weighs 4.506 grams per cc?? Stainless steel is .2904 lbs per cubic in.? Can someone confirm the math.
Hank
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From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Sun Mar 23 16:23:27 2014
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:23:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] titanium barrier
Message-ID: <10cc2e.f9e7a40.40609cbe@aol.com>

Hank,
749 grams divided by 139.5 cc = 5.37 g/cc.  That's pretty  close to 
vanadium (5.494) and might be a good guess considering alloy.   Stainless steel is 
going to be close to 8 g/cc.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 3/23/2014 1:11:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:

 
Today I discovered that I did not leave enough clearance between my new  
drive hub and housing for my reach rods that release the propeller,  grrrr.  I 
had to remove the entire assembly to make a modification.   
Since it is all apart I decided to do a volume measurement to determine  if 
the barrier is ss or titanium.  By my calculations it is  titanium.  The 
barrier is 139.5 cc and the part weighs 749grams.   Titanium weighs 4.506 
grams per cc   Stainless steel is .2904 lbs  per cubic in.  Can someone confirm 
the math.
Hank



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From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Sun Mar 23 16:55:19 2014
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:55:19 +1300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
In-Reply-To: <20140322075323.BE8CED16@m0048138.ppops.net>
References: <20140322075323.BE8CED16@m0048138.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <532f4a3d.82e6440a.3678.7cbf@mx.google.com>

Thanks Brian,

They do not go up to 144 volts and they don?t look as though they support CAN. 

There is another called Kolector but they are from Slovenia.

www.kolektormotorcontrollers.com

 

regards Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers

 

The Curtis controllers are the best

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:07:39 +1300

 

Hi All,  Has anyone any steer on a decent brushless motor controller supplier.

I am using 72 volts and 144 volts  1.5 kw and 15 kw motors.

I have had some failures with Kelly controllers from china and running a bit scared of continuing with them.  Hugh

 



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_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

 

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar 23 17:29:52 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 14:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] titanium barrier
In-Reply-To: <10cc2e.f9e7a40.40609cbe@aol.com>
References: <10cc2e.f9e7a40.40609cbe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1395610192.78318.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jim,
Thanks'? After I sent the e mail, I re-measured the volume of the part with some better equipment.? I measured three times and got an accurate reading.? It works out to be SS almost dead on.? :-(? 
Hank



On Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:23:48 PM, "JimToddPsub at aol.com" <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:
  
Hank, 
749 grams divided by 139.5 cc = 5.37 g/cc.? That's pretty 
close to vanadium (5.494) and might be a good guess considering alloy.? 
Stainless steel is going to be close to 8 g/cc. 
Jim 

In a message dated 3/23/2014 1:11:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes: 
Today I discovered that I did not leave enough clearance between my new  drive hub and housing for my reach rods that release the propeller,  grrrr.? I had to remove the entire assembly to make a modification.?  
>Since it is all apart I decided to do a volume measurement to determine  if the barrier is ss or titanium.? By my calculations it is  titanium.? The barrier is 139.5 cc and the part weighs 749grams.?  Titanium weighs 4.506 grams per cc?? Stainless steel is .2904 lbs  per cubic in.? Can someone confirm the math. 
>Hank
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles 
  mailing 
  list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 23 17:33:32 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 14:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
In-Reply-To: <532f4a3d.82e6440a.3678.7cbf@mx.google.com>
References: <20140322075323.BE8CED16@m0048138.ppops.net>
 <532f4a3d.82e6440a.3678.7cbf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1395610412.86269.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hugh,
you may want to try emailing these ROV businesses if you get desperate.?
They sell brushless DC motors in various sizes.
http://www.f-e-t.com/our_products_technologies/subsea-solutions/components-and-tooling/thrusters/

OR
http://www.olds.com.au/marine/ROV_AUV_Thrusters.html
OR
http://www.ems-thrusters.com/standard.html
Alan


________________________________
 From: Hugh Fulton <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
 


Thanks Brian,
They do not go up to 144 volts and they don?t look as though they support CAN. 
There is another called Kolector but they are from Slovenia.
www.kolektormotorcontrollers.com
?
regards Hugh
From:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
?
The Curtis controllers are the best

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:07:39 +1300
?
Hi All,? Has anyone any steer on a decent brushless motor controller supplier.
I am using 72 volts and 144 volts? 1.5 kw and 15 kw motors.
I have had some failures with Kelly controllers from china and running a bit scared of continuing with them.? Hugh
?


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?
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Sun Mar 23 19:42:10 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Private)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:42:10 -0300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
In-Reply-To: <u9cyxnn5d8q1j6e3skbv3sqe.1395586489231@email.android.com>
References: <u9cyxnn5d8q1j6e3skbv3sqe.1395586489231@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <04AEC7F1-8779-48D6-BCE3-6BB9963ED5B6@gmail.com>

You know these are not actually needle valves? And they have no packing to tighten.



> On Mar 23, 2014, at 11:59 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the info Sean.  My valve that failed had a ever so slight leak from the get go. Over the winter it was in the closed position and when I charged the system, it had a pretty noticable leak. The other two valves work great. I am going to order another valve and run it this season with alot of dives and see how she works.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> "Sean T. Stevenson" <cast55 at telus.net> wrote:
> Needle valves are designed as fine metering / flow control valves. While they can be used as shut off valves, maximum stem / seat life is obtained by incorporating an on / off valve upstream of the metering valve, and using this for shutoff so you don't ever have to torque down the needle valve to reliably cut flow to zero. Most automatically operated flow control valves fail open in their standard configurations for this reason, as it improves repeatability.
> 
> Also, be aware of the tightness of the packing nut around the valve stem, as leaks often occur here. If you want to get fancy, you can use a fine resolution / low range torque wrench on the stem, but for these small Swagelok valves it is usually sufficient to just feel the resistance to turning the knob.  You want enough compression on the packing to eliminate leaks and prevent vibration from possibly moving the valve out of position. Any more than that just increases wear on the packing and friction on the stem, making it more difficult to perform fine adjustments.
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> 
> Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> 
>> My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay. 
>> 
>> I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minu! tes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to begin with.
>> 
>> We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alec,
>>> I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> -- 
> Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Sun Mar 23 21:51:51 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 18:51:51 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Message-ID: <20140323185151.BE834E24@m0005297.ppops.net>

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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sun Mar 23 23:06:34 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 22:06:34 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
Message-ID: <08051t70huuoflvcv0202hkl.1395630349947@email.android.com>

Yea. I remember you saying they are not true needle valves. What kind of valves are they technically?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphonePrivate <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:You know these are not actually needle valves? And they have no packing to tighten.



On Mar 23, 2014, at 11:59 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Thanks for the info Sean. ?My valve that failed had a ever so slight leak from the get go. Over the winter it was in the closed position and when I charged the system, it had a pretty noticable leak. The other two valves work great. I am going to order another valve and run it this season with alot of dives and see how she works.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

"Sean T. Stevenson" <cast55 at telus.net> wrote:
Needle valves are designed as fine metering / flow control valves. While they can be used as shut off valves, maximum stem / seat life is obtained by incorporating an on / off valve upstream of the metering valve, and using this for shutoff so you don't ever have to torque down the needle valve to reliably cut flow to zero. Most automatically operated flow control valves fail open in their standard configurations for this reason, as it improves repeatability.

Also, be aware of the tightness of the packing nut around the valve stem, as leaks often occur here. If you want to get fancy, you can use a fine resolution / low range torque wrench on the stem, but for these small Swagelok valves it is usually sufficient to just feel the resistance to turning the knob.? You want enough compression on the packing to eliminate leaks and prevent vibration from possibly moving the valve out of position. Any more than that just increases wear on the packing and friction on the stem, making it more difficult to perform fine adjustments.

Sean



Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Scott,

My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay.

I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minu!  tes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to begin with.

We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!

Best,

Alec



On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Alec,
I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-- 
Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alecsmyth at gmail.com  Mon Mar 24 05:47:48 2014
From: alecsmyth at gmail.com (Private)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 06:47:48 -0300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Swagelock needle valve
In-Reply-To: <08051t70huuoflvcv0202hkl.1395630349947@email.android.com>
References: <08051t70huuoflvcv0202hkl.1395630349947@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <28A8534C-24ED-484A-B600-037FAF6F8982@gmail.com>

"Integral bonnet non-rotating stem valves". As you rotate the handle, the stem itself does not turn but is drawn out by a thread on the inside of the handle. This non-rotating stem allows the valves to have no packing. The reason I picked them was that I'd found the packing to be a frequent source of minor air leaks. Nothing serious, but an irritant. As for how the seal is accomplished, on the inside end of the stem there's a little flat disk of some elastomer that comes down over a hole. They are like needle valves only in that the thread that pulls the stem up is quite fine, so they give you more turns than a ball valve. Not that the application of blowing a ballast tank requires that fine a control -- it's the lack of packing that's appealing to me.


Best,

Alec



> On Mar 24, 2014, at 12:06 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> Yea. I remember you saying they are not true needle valves. What kind of valves are they technically?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
> You know these are not actually needle valves? And they have no packing to tighten.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2014, at 11:59 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for the info Sean.  My valve that failed had a ever so slight leak from the get go. Over the winter it was in the closed position and when I charged the system, it had a pretty noticable leak. The other two valves work great. I am going to order another valve and run it this season with alot of dives and see how she works.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> "Sean T. Stevenson" <cast55 at telus.net> wrote:
>> Needle valves are designed as fine metering / flow control valves. While they can be used as shut off valves, maximum stem / seat life is obtained by incorporating an on / off valve upstream of the metering valve, and using this for shutoff so you don't ever have to torque down the needle valve to reliably cut flow to zero. Most automatically operated flow control valves fail open in their standard configurations for this reason, as it improves repeatability.
>> 
>> Also, be aware of the tightness of the packing nut around the valve stem, as leaks often occur here. If you want to get fancy, you can use a fine resolution / low range torque wrench on the stem, but for these small Swagelok valves it is usually sufficient to just feel the resistance to turning the knob.  You want enough compression on the packing to eliminate leaks and prevent vibration from possibly moving the valve out of position. Any more than that just increases wear on the packing and friction on the stem, making it more difficult to perform fine adjustments.
>> 
>> Sean
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Private <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> 
>>> My valve issue was entirely sloppiness. I had added a port to the little HP manifold, and didn't clean the inside of the manifold properly after cutting the thread on that extra port. Metal chips got into the valves and interfered with proper seating. Two of the valves I was able to clean, but one I think got its seat damaged because I was just never able to make a good seal on it again. I currently have the manifold out of the sub for cleaning, and got a replacement valve on eBay. 
>>> 
>>> I would suggest taking the problem valve apart to see whether something has got in there. What you say about storing them open makes sense, and I'll do that in the future, but I haven't yet had a valve issue after winter storage. I have had issues with the electricals. Last winter a speed controller blew after it's first minute or so of spring running, and this year I had one that wouldn't work at all for the first few minu! tes but has acted normally once it came on. Maybe the cold made some relays "sticky" to begin with.
>>> 
>>> We must be doing very similar things on our boats right now!
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Alec
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Alec,
>>>> I remember at the psubs conference in Islamorada you had a malfunction on the needle valve from Swagelock. I am preping my sub for this season and noticed a air leak. It is comming from one of the same needle valves. Did you end up just buying a new one or did you repair it? I am thinking based on the way these work they need to be stored in the open position. Do you think that is correct?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Scott Waters
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> -- 
>> Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Mon Mar 24 15:20:52 2014
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 08:20:52 +1300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
In-Reply-To: <20140323185151.BE834E24@m0005297.ppops.net>
References: <20140323185151.BE834E24@m0005297.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <53308599.0ac5440a.0ef5.5fdd@mx.google.com>

Thanks Brian.  I am trying to contact them and get some info.  Regards, Hugh

 

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Monday, 24 March 2014 2:52 p.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers

 

Hugh,

               Check these guys out.  Scroll down , I believe they have some 144V .  That is pretty high voltage, that won't present any problems?

 

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ac-motor-kits.html

 

 

Brian

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:55:19 +1300

Thanks Brian,

They do not go up to 144 volts and they don?t look as though they support CAN. 

There is another called Kolector but they are from Slovenia.

www.kolektormotorcontrollers.com

 

regards Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers

 

The Curtis controllers are the best

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:07:39 +1300

 

Hi All,  Has anyone any steer on a decent brushless motor controller supplier.

I am using 72 volts and 144 volts  1.5 kw and 15 kw motors.

I have had some failures with Kelly controllers from china and running a bit scared of continuing with them.  Hugh

 



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9564 (20140319) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9574 (20140321) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9574 (20140321) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com 

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http://www.eset.com
_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

 

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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Mon Mar 24 15:34:01 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:34:01 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Message-ID: <20140324123401.BE86594C@m0005299.ppops.net>

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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Mon Mar 24 15:36:48 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:36:48 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Message-ID: <20140324123648.BE865936@m0005299.ppops.net>

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From hc.fulton at gmail.com  Mon Mar 24 16:30:47 2014
From: hc.fulton at gmail.com (Hugh Fulton)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 09:30:47 +1300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
In-Reply-To: <20140324123401.BE86594C@m0005299.ppops.net>
References: <20140324123401.BE86594C@m0005299.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <533095f9.67ed440a.6928.771e@mx.google.com>

Hi Brian,  I am running 2 x 15 kw motors and using Kelly controllers and need to use them for regeneration as well. The motors I am using are from Australia 

Electric Motor Power Pty Ltd

Website: www.emppl.com.au

 

Cheers, Hugh

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2014 8:34 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers

 

They are north of me in northern California, tell'm I sent you!   They've been trying to find a motor system that will meet my requirements.  That is, something around 18kW and will run all day long.  They tell me there is a motor coming out of Canada in a month or so that will fit the bill.

 

Brian

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 08:20:52 +1300

Thanks Brian.  I am trying to contact them and get some info.  Regards, Hugh

 

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Monday, 24 March 2014 2:52 p.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers

 

Hugh,

               Check these guys out.  Scroll down , I believe they have some 144V .  That is pretty high voltage, that won't present any problems?

 

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ac-motor-kits.html

 

 

Brian

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:55:19 +1300

Thanks Brian,

They do not go up to 144 volts and they don?t look as though they support CAN. 

There is another called Kolector but they are from Slovenia.

www.kolektormotorcontrollers.com

 

regards Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers

 

The Curtis controllers are the best

--- hc.fulton at gmail.com wrote:

From: "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FW: DC Motor controllers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:07:39 +1300

 

Hi All,  Has anyone any steer on a decent brushless motor controller supplier.

I am using 72 volts and 144 volts  1.5 kw and 15 kw motors.

I have had some failures with Kelly controllers from china and running a bit scared of continuing with them.  Hugh

 



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http://www.eset.com 

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

 

http://www.eset.com



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From emile at airesearch.nl  Mon Mar 24 17:40:46 2014
From: emile at airesearch.nl (Emile van Essen)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:40:46 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
In-Reply-To: <20140324123648.BE865936@m0005299.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAA1C1uEI7AMEyOar4ZvMBlLQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

As far as I know it is only cast.

 

Regards, Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens Brian Cox
Verzonden: maandag 24 maart 2014 20:37
Aan: PSubs 
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic

 

I'm planning on annealing my viewports,  does anyone know if the acrylic
from the factory is pre-shrunk ?

 

Brian

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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Mon Mar 24 20:03:10 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:03:10 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Message-ID: <20140324170310.BE91B53B@m0048141.ppops.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Mar 24 20:22:32 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:22:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
In-Reply-To: <20140324170310.BE91B53B@m0048141.ppops.net>
References: <20140324170310.BE91B53B@m0048141.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395706952.72347.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
Are you going to anneal your windows yourself???
Hank?



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:03:10 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Used my polarized lenses on the?newly cut piece and it appears clouded throughout the whole piece.? Where as another piece I have, you can clearly see a stress area around where it has been drilled.?

Brian


--- emile at airesearch.nl wrote:

From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:40:46 +0100


As far as I know it is
only cast. 
? 
Regards, Emile 
? 

________________________________
  
Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox
Verzonden: maandag 24 maart 2014
20:37
Aan: PSubs 
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
annealing acrylic 
? 
I'm planning on annealing my viewports,? does anyone
know if the acrylic from the factory is pre-shrunk ? 
? 
Brian _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles  
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Mon Mar 24 20:32:42 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:32:42 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Message-ID: <20140324173242.BE85332C@m0005309.ppops.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Mar 24 20:35:09 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:35:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
In-Reply-To: <20140324173242.BE85332C@m0005309.ppops.net>
References: <20140324173242.BE85332C@m0005309.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395707709.96498.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
How thick is your acrylic?? should take more than a night?
Hank



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:33:09 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Yes, I have the annealing schedules.? I have an electric oven and two digital thermometers, one I'm going to put in a piece of acrylic and the other one I'm going to use to monitor the oven temperature itself .? I'm worried that the thermometer in the acrylic won't register until it gets heated throughout, and so then the oven temp might go higher than it should.? So between the two readouts I can heat it gradually up.? It'll be a long night.

Brian

--- hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca wrote:

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:22:32 -0700 (PDT)


Brian,
Are you going to anneal your windows yourself???
Hank?



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:03:10 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Used my polarized lenses on the?newly cut piece and it appears clouded throughout the whole piece.? Where as another piece I have, you can clearly see a stress area around where it has been drilled.?

Brian


--- emile at airesearch.nl wrote:

From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:40:46 +0100


As far as I know it is
only cast. 
? 
Regards, Emile 
?   
Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox
Verzonden: maandag 24 maart 2014
20:37
Aan: PSubs 
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
annealing acrylic 
? 
I'm planning on annealing my viewports,? does anyone
know if the acrylic from the factory is pre-shrunk ? 
? 
Brian _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles  
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Mar 24 20:39:27 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:39:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
In-Reply-To: <1395707709.96498.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140324173242.BE85332C@m0005309.ppops.net>
 <1395707709.96498.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395707967.32503.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
Do you have the Stachiw book of Acrylics, I can send you mine if you don't have a copy.? There is some pretty important stuff in there.
Hank



On , hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
  
Brian,
How thick is your acrylic?? should take more than a night?
Hank



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:33:09 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Yes, I have the annealing schedules.? I have an electric oven and two digital thermometers, one I'm going to put in a piece of acrylic and the other one I'm going to use to monitor the oven temperature itself .? I'm worried that the thermometer in the acrylic won't register until it gets heated throughout, and so then the oven temp might go higher than it should.? So between the two readouts I can heat it gradually up.? It'll be a long night.

Brian

--- hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca wrote:

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:22:32 -0700 (PDT)


Brian,
Are you going to anneal your windows yourself???
Hank?



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:03:10 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Used my polarized lenses on the?newly cut piece and it appears clouded throughout the whole piece.? Where as another piece I have, you can clearly see a stress area around where it has been drilled.?

Brian


--- emile at airesearch.nl wrote:

From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:40:46 +0100


As far as I know it is
only cast. 
? 
Regards, Emile 
?   
Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox
Verzonden: maandag 24 maart 2014
20:37
Aan: PSubs 
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
annealing acrylic 
? 
I'm planning on annealing my viewports,? does anyone
know if the acrylic from the factory is pre-shrunk ? 
? 
Brian _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles  
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 24 21:02:10 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 18:02:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
In-Reply-To: <20140324173242.BE85332C@m0005309.ppops.net>
References: <20140324173242.BE85332C@m0005309.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395709330.41582.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,?
what sort of an electric oven?
I formed some thick acrylic & had to raise the temperature by 1C every 10 minutes
& drop the temperature by 1C every 15 minutes & yes it took all night.
The thermostat on a normal kitchen oven doesn't have enough accuracy & the elements
are too high powered for subtle changes in temperature. I ended up cutting a hole out between
the warmer draw & oven & using the warmer draw element to heat the oven.
There are kiln temperature control units on ebay that are a reasonable price.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
 


Yes, I have the annealing schedules.? I have an electric oven and two digital thermometers, one I'm going to put in a piece of acrylic and the other one I'm going to use to monitor the oven temperature itself .? I'm worried that the thermometer in the acrylic won't register until it gets heated throughout, and so then the oven temp might go higher than it should.? So between the two readouts I can heat it gradually up.? It'll be a long night.
?
Brian

--- hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca wrote:

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:22:32 -0700 (PDT)


Brian,
Are you going to anneal your windows yourself???
Hank?



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:03:10 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
 
Used my polarized lenses on the?newly cut piece and it appears clouded throughout the whole piece.? Where as another piece I have, you can clearly see a stress area around where it has been drilled.?
?
Brian
?

--- emile at airesearch.nl wrote:

From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:40:46 +0100


As far as I know it is
only cast.
?
Regards, Emile 
? 
Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox
Verzonden: maandag 24 maart 2014
20:37
Aan: PSubs 
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
annealing acrylic
? 
I'm planning on annealing my viewports,? does anyone
know if the acrylic from the factory is pre-shrunk ? 
? 
Brian _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Mon Mar 24 21:22:45 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 18:22:45 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Message-ID: <20140324182245.BE8CC3FB@m0048139.ppops.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 25 08:35:51 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 05:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
In-Reply-To: <20140324182245.BE8CC3FB@m0048139.ppops.net>
References: <20140324182245.BE8CC3FB@m0048139.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395750951.79181.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
I say when in doubt, test.? If your not building a test chamber , you can make your sample window to fit my chamber and I will test it for you.
Hank



On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:23:18 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Hank,
????????? I have the book, that's where the annealing schedules are, they vary quite a bit, there is an absolute minimum time and then there is the original recommended time. The recommended time comes out to be around 51 hours where as the shortened time is maybe half that.? I'm just doing one test piece to start off with.? I was also using the same oven ( a toaster oven I got from Sears for $75 bucks) to?heat the welding rod?to 250 degrees F before we used the rod ( it had been sitting out for a few days).? I was able to keep the temperature fairly even for the welding rod at 250.? 

Brian??

--- hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca wrote:

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:39:27 -0700 (PDT)


Brian,
Do you have the Stachiw book of Acrylics, I can send you mine if you don't have a copy.? There is some pretty important stuff in there.
Hank



On , hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
  
Brian,
How thick is your acrylic?? should take more than a night?
Hank



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:33:09 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Yes, I have the annealing schedules.? I have an electric oven and two digital thermometers, one I'm going to put in a piece of acrylic and the other one I'm going to use to monitor the oven temperature itself .? I'm worried that the thermometer in the acrylic won't register until it gets heated throughout, and so then the oven temp might go higher than it should.? So between the two readouts I can heat it gradually up.? It'll be a long night.

Brian

--- hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca wrote:

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:22:32 -0700 (PDT)


Brian,
Are you going to anneal your windows yourself???
Hank?



On Monday, March 24, 2014 6:03:10 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Used my polarized lenses on the?newly cut piece and it appears clouded throughout the whole piece.? Where as another piece I have, you can clearly see a stress area around where it has been drilled.?

Brian


--- emile at airesearch.nl wrote:

From: "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl>
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing acrylic
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:40:46 +0100


As far as I know it is
only cast. 
? 
Regards, Emile 
?   
Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox
Verzonden: maandag 24 maart 2014
20:37
Aan: PSubs 
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
annealing acrylic 
? 
I'm planning on annealing my viewports,? does anyone
know if the acrylic from the factory is pre-shrunk ? 
? 
Brian _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles  
_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    _______________________________________________
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Wed Mar 26 11:29:59 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 08:29:59 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
Message-ID: <20140326082959.BE9118A8@m0048141.ppops.net>

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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 26 15:37:23 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:37:23 +1300
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
In-Reply-To: <20140326082959.BE9118A8@m0048141.ppops.net>
References: <20140326082959.BE9118A8@m0048141.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <46F8B725-F011-4838-854F-1D6965CEF198@yahoo.com>

Good idea using the ceramic Brian. 
Did you manage to keep within the required temperature range?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 27/03/2014, at 4:29 am, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> 
> Here are some shots of my annealing oven.  I was able to recruit my friend who fires tile, he had some ceramic pieces that we fit in the oven to help shield the direct radiation of the heating elements.  Also with the extra mass of all the ceramic it improved the heat sink storage and made for more even temperature changes.
>  
>  
> Brian
>  
> <oven21.jpg>
> <probe-in-acrylic1.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Wed Mar 26 17:05:48 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 14:05:48 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
Message-ID: <20140326140548.BE9174CE@m0048141.ppops.net>

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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 26 17:46:53 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 14:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
In-Reply-To: <20140326140548.BE9174CE@m0048141.ppops.net>
References: <20140326140548.BE9174CE@m0048141.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395870413.70665.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
I haven't looked in to this unit deeply, but there are a lot of items like
it on Ebay, that control kilns.?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Ramp-Soak-Temperature-Controller-Kiln-SSR-Kit-Ceramic-Thermocouple-/121092751234

You may be able to just cut the power cord going in to your oven & connect it to the relay.
If you have a number of view ports to anneal it would save you some sleep.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
 


Hi Alan,
?????????????? I haven't actually gone through the whole cycle yet, I just tested it for about 6 hours just to see how bad the temperature swings were going to be.? I was please to see that the temperature lags very slowly in the acrylic compared to the other temperature sensor.? I'm confident that I can follow the annealing chart very closely.?? I?also wanted to arrange the two hold times ( for the normalizing run) so that they occur in the early morning so I can sleep !?? I?need to be actively monitoring the cool down periods.
?
Brian
?
?
--- alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com wrote:

From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:37:23 +1300


Good idea using the ceramic Brian.?
Did you manage to keep within the required temperature range?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 27/03/2014, at 4:29 am, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:


Here are some shots of my annealing oven.? I was able to recruit my friend who fires tile, he had some ceramic pieces that we fit in the oven to help shield the direct radiation of the heating elements.? Also with the extra mass of all the ceramic it improved the heat sink storage and made for more even temperature changes.
>?
>?
>Brian
>?
<oven21.jpg>
<probe-in-acrylic1.jpg>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

_______________________________________________
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Wed Mar 26 22:29:14 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 19:29:14 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
Message-ID: <20140326192914.BE8D86D3@m0048138.ppops.net>

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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 26 23:30:50 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
In-Reply-To: <20140326192914.BE8D86D3@m0048138.ppops.net>
References: <20140326192914.BE8D86D3@m0048138.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395891050.41024.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
it says it can be used for beer brewing, so no need to worry about it's
low temperature range & hey there's another use for it when you aren't
annealing. & they are programmable.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
 



Hi Alan,
??????????????? I didn't see how they exactly work, but I imagine what you would want is a fully programmable system .?? I would be curious to see what is out there and what the commercial viewport makers use.? They may be custom systems.
?
I know the kiln controls work at much higher temperatures however.?
?
Brian
?

--- alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com wrote:

From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 14:46:53 -0700 (PDT)


Brian,
I haven't looked in to this unit deeply, but there are a lot of items like
it on Ebay, that control kilns.?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Ramp-Soak-Temperature-Controller-Kiln-SSR-Kit-Ceramic-Thermocouple-/121092751234

You may be able to just cut the power cord going in to your oven & connect it to the relay.
If you have a number of view ports to anneal it would save you some sleep.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
 


Hi Alan,
?????????????? I haven't actually gone through the whole cycle yet, I just tested it for about 6 hours just to see how bad the temperature swings were going to be.? I was please to see that the temperature lags very slowly in the acrylic compared to the other temperature sensor.? I'm confident that I can follow the annealing chart very closely.?? I?also wanted to arrange the two hold times ( for the normalizing run) so that they occur in the early morning so I can sleep !?? I?need to be actively monitoring the cool down periods.
?
Brian
?

---
 alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com wrote:

From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] oven pics
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:37:23 +1300


Good idea using the ceramic Brian.?
Did you manage to keep within the required temperature range?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 27/03/2014, at 4:29 am, "Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:


Here are some shots of my annealing oven.? I was able to recruit my friend who fires tile, he had some ceramic pieces that we fit in the oven to help shield the direct radiation of the heating elements.? Also with the extra mass of all the ceramic it improved the heat sink storage and made for more even temperature changes.
>?
>?
>Brian
>?
<oven21.jpg>
<probe-in-acrylic1.jpg>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

_______________________________________________
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 12:44:46 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 09:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
Message-ID: <1395938686.75469.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.? I contacted my insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter who is an insurance broker.? It is not possible unless the sub is certified.? I was only looking for insurance to cover loss during storage and during transport.? I was only looking for a set amount to cover my?actual costs.? 
My next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and maybe my home insurance can be modified.
Does anyone have insurance on a sub here?
Hank
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From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Thu Mar 27 13:11:00 2014
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?=)
Date: 27 Mar 2014 17:11 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1395938686.75469.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395938686.75469.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1WTDqM-1C9hjM0@fwd27.t-online.de>

All SL classe subs have a insurance. 

Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 

The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly
heardattack on his birthday travel
in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 

Euronaut has no class but a P&I insurance due to the owners good network
in the shipbuilding industry. 
And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and
time to time for a classification society..
But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a
potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 

But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage the
sub do to others. 
I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a minimum
insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 

And if teh sub sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by
yourself. Just in case you survife.. 

For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or
Motorboat. 
The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it
should be the same. 

vbr Carsten



"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb: 
I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.  I contacted my
insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter
who is an insurance broker.  It is not possible unless the sub is
certified.  I was only looking for insurance to cover loss during
storage and during transport.  I was only looking for a set amount to
cover my actual costs.  
My next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and
maybe my home insurance can be modified.
Does anyone have insurance on a sub here?
Hank
 
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 13:28:42 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 10:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1WTDqM-1C9hjM0@fwd27.t-online.de>
References: <1395938686.75469.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1WTDqM-1C9hjM0@fwd27.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1395941322.59690.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Carsten,
I just thought it might be cheap to have storage insurance, and it might be nice to get some money back if my shop burns to the ground.? I used to put storage insurance on my Porsche 911 for 75 dollars per winter.? I don't understand what the difference is.? 
I am going to ask today about an annual cargo insurance.
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 11:12:18 AM, Carsten Standfu? <MerlinSub at t-online.de> wrote:
  
E-Mail Software 6.0
All SL classe subs have a insurance. 

Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 

The
lawer of 
the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly heardattack on
his 
birthday travel
in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no

insurance. 

Euronaut has no class but?a P&I insurance
due to the 
owners good network in the shipbuilding industry. 
And maybe due to
the fact 
that the owner work as naval architect and time to time for a
classification 
society..
But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a
submarine 
is a potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own
risk. 

But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the
damage the 
sub do to others. 
I dont think that you sub will do major damage to
others. 
Such a minimum insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
A
full 
insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 

And if 
teh sub?sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by yourself.
Just in 
case you survife.. 

For transport on a road you can insure the
boat just 
as cargo or Motorboat. 
The insurance will not see a special risk in
that. 
And for storage it should be the same. 

vbr Carsten



"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb: 
I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.? I
contacted my insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well
as my daughter who is an insurance broker.? It is not possible
unless the sub is certified.? I was only looking for insurance to
cover loss during storage and during transport.? I was only looking
for a set amount to cover my?actual costs.? 
>My next
attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and maybe my
home insurance can be modified.
>Does anyone have insurance on
a sub here?
>Hank  ?

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 13:53:23 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 10:53:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1395941322.59690.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,<br/><br/>In aviation, incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with value.<br/><br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/><a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From jon.wallace at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 14:22:44 2014
From: jon.wallace at yahoo.com (Jon Wallace)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 11:22:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


Are you sure they understood what you wanted?  Trailers are usually covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.  Like Joe said, it's just value.  Same with storage, why would the fact it's a submarine make a difference?  How is a submarine in storage any different than a boat in storage?  And why on earth would you need certification to cover a submarine in storage.  Something not making sense Hank.

Jon


--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

 Hank,In aviation,
 incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
 lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
 value.JoeSent
 from Yahoo Mail for iPad           
 


From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 15:52:21 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:52:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jon, Joe
I just returned from our local auto insurance agency.? I can not buy cargo insurance from the auto insurance provider.? In our case it is ICBC Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia.? My trailer is insured under my truck and the cargo is not covered.? They are checking if my house insurance can be extended to cover it while stored only.? 
My daughter also just let me know that the home insurance should do it but I will need to prove value.? This is pretty weird.? Your right Jon, does not make sense.? 
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:23:16 PM, Jon Wallace <jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
  

Are you sure they understood what you wanted?? Trailers are usually covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.? Like Joe said, it's just value.? Same with storage, why would the fact it's a submarine make a difference?? How is a submarine in storage any different than a boat in storage?? And why on earth would you need certification to cover a submarine in storage.? Something not making sense Hank.

Jon



--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hank,In aviation,
incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
value.JoeSent
from Yahoo Mail for iPad? ? ? ? ? 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From kocpnt at tds.net  Thu Mar 27 16:04:31 2014
From: kocpnt at tds.net (kocpnt tds.net)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 15:04:31 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have all my business insurance with the same agency. I do not have
insurance on my sub.
Be careful what questions you ask of your existing carrier! My broker said
that if the underwriters find out that I have a sub, my Inland Marine,
Umbrella, Liability may be rate adjusted or canceled. I understand this
because in my early days I was in that business.

Best Regards,

Jim K


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:

> Jon, Joe
> I just returned from our local auto insurance agency.  I can not buy cargo
> insurance from the auto insurance provider.  In our case it is ICBC
> Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia.  My trailer is insured under my
> truck and the cargo is not covered.  They are checking if my house
> insurance can be extended to cover it while stored only.
> My daughter also just let me know that the home insurance should do it but
> I will need to prove value.  This is pretty weird.  Your right Jon, does
> not make sense.
> Hank
>
>
>   On Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:23:16 PM, Jon Wallace <
> jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Are you sure they understood what you wanted?  Trailers are usually
> covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any
> grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.  Like
> Joe said, it's just value.  Same with storage, why would the fact it's a
> submarine make a difference?  How is a submarine in storage any different
> than a boat in storage?  And why on earth would you need certification to
> cover a submarine in storage.  Something not making sense Hank.
>
> Jon
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hank,In aviation,
> incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
> lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
> value.JoeSent
> from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 16:12:20 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:12:20 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEFQV9Da7vMNMBGRURAaySETj=dVNRKpzghAOSgrwePj8A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Hank,
I just got quoted on my sub while under construction and during
transportation while under construction, its actually quite reasonable, I
do have to have an alarm on the storage building and as the project becomes
more complete ie: more expensive parts arrive I can adjust the polity up in
value. Took a while to find the company that would underwrite it now and
after completion. Not sure about canada vs california but I could make a
referral off line.



Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:04 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have all my business insurance with the same agency. I do not have
> insurance on my sub.
> Be careful what questions you ask of your existing carrier! My broker said
> that if the underwriters find out that I have a sub, my Inland Marine,
> Umbrella, Liability may be rate adjusted or canceled. I understand this
> because in my early days I was in that business.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jim K
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:
>
>> Jon, Joe
>> I just returned from our local auto insurance agency.  I can not buy
>> cargo insurance from the auto insurance provider.  In our case it is ICBC
>> Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia.  My trailer is insured under my
>> truck and the cargo is not covered.  They are checking if my house
>> insurance can be extended to cover it while stored only.
>> My daughter also just let me know that the home insurance should do it
>> but I will need to prove value.  This is pretty weird.  Your right Jon,
>> does not make sense.
>> Hank
>>
>>
>>   On Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:23:16 PM, Jon Wallace <
>> jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Are you sure they understood what you wanted?  Trailers are usually
>> covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any
>> grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.  Like
>> Joe said, it's just value.  Same with storage, why would the fact it's a
>> submarine make a difference?  How is a submarine in storage any different
>> than a boat in storage?  And why on earth would you need certification to
>> cover a submarine in storage.  Something not making sense Hank.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hank,In aviation,
>> incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
>> lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
>> value.JoeSent
>> from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 16:12:28 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:12:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1395951148.64142.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I am starting to think some people don't like submarines :-)
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:04:31 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:
  
Hi All,

I have all my business insurance with the same agency. I do not have insurance on my sub.
Be careful what questions you ask of your existing carrier! My broker said that if the underwriters find out that I have a sub, my Inland Marine, Umbrella, Liability may be rate adjusted or canceled. I understand this because in my early days I was in that business. 

Best Regards,

Jim K



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Jon, Joe
>I just returned from our local auto insurance agency.? I can not buy cargo insurance from the auto insurance provider.? In our case it is ICBC Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia.? My trailer is insured under my truck and the cargo is not covered.? They are checking if my house insurance can be extended to cover it while stored only.?  
>My daughter also just let me know that the home insurance should do it but I will need to prove value.? This is pretty weird.? Your right Jon, does not make sense.? 
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:23:16 PM, Jon Wallace <jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>
>Are you sure they understood what you wanted?? Trailers are usually covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.? Like Joe said, it's just value.? Same with storage, why would the fact it's a submarine make a difference?? How is a submarine in storage any different than a boat in storage?? And why on earth would you need certification to cover a submarine in storage.? Something not making sense Hank.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------
>On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Hank,In aviation,
>incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
>lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
>value.JoeSent
>from Yahoo Mail for iPad? ? ? ? ? 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 16:27:43 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:27:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEFQV9Da7vMNMBGRURAaySETj=dVNRKpzghAOSgrwePj8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHHFyEFQV9Da7vMNMBGRURAaySETj=dVNRKpzghAOSgrwePj8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1395952063.18348.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

David,
What is the company name?
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:12:54 PM, David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:
  
Hi Hank, 
I just got quoted on my sub while under construction and during transportation while under construction, its actually quite reasonable, I do have to have an alarm on the storage building and as the project becomes more complete ie: more expensive parts arrive I can adjust the polity up in value. Took a while to find the company that would underwrite it now and after completion. Not sure about canada vs california but I could make a referral off line.





Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
http://www.seaquestor.com/

 


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:04 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:

Hi All,
>
>
>I have all my business insurance with the same agency. I do not have insurance on my sub.
>Be careful what questions you ask of your existing carrier! My broker said that if the underwriters find out that I have a sub, my Inland Marine, Umbrella, Liability may be rate adjusted or canceled. I understand this because in my early days I was in that business. 
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>
>Jim K
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Jon, Joe
>>I just returned from our local auto insurance agency.? I can not buy cargo insurance from the auto insurance provider.? In our case it is ICBC Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia.? My trailer is insured under my truck and the cargo is not covered.? They are checking if my house insurance can be extended to cover it while stored only.?  
>>My daughter also just let me know that the home insurance should do it but I will need to prove value.? This is pretty weird.? Your right Jon, does not make sense.? 
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:23:16 PM, Jon Wallace <jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>  
>>
>>Are you sure they understood what you wanted?? Trailers are usually covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.? Like Joe said, it's just value.? Same with storage, why would the fact it's a submarine make a difference?? How is a submarine in storage any different than a boat in storage?? And why on earth would you need certification to cover a submarine in storage.? Something not making sense Hank.
>>
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------
>>On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hank,In aviation,
>>incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
>>lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
>>value.JoeSent
>>from Yahoo Mail for iPad? ? ? ? ? 
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>    
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
> 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From emile at airesearch.nl  Thu Mar 27 16:34:25 2014
From: emile at airesearch.nl (Emile van Essen)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 21:34:25 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1WTDqM-1C9hjM0@fwd27.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAtfnlezItmkaz2LQiEEPoOQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

?But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a potential
dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk.?

 

Doing this makes no sense. If a accident is related to bad safety
precautions or a big mistake by the pilot, you have a problem anyway..

 

Regards, Emile

 

 

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens "Carsten Standfu? "
Verzonden: donderdag 27 maart 2014 18:11
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance

 

All SL classe subs have a insurance. 

Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 

The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly
heardattack on his birthday travel
in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 

Euronaut has no class but a P&I insurance due to the owners good network in
the shipbuilding industry. 
And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and time to
time for a classification society..
But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a potential
dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 

But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage the sub
do to others. 
I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a minimum
insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 

And if teh sub sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by yourself.
Just in case you survife.. 

For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or Motorboat. 
The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it should
be the same. 

vbr Carsten



"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb: 

I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.  I contacted my
insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter who
is an insurance broker.  It is not possible unless the sub is certified.  I
was only looking for insurance to cover loss during storage and during
transport.  I was only looking for a set amount to cover my actual costs.  

My next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and maybe
my home insurance can be modified.

Does anyone have insurance on a sub here?

Hank

 

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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 16:37:32 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:37:32 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1395952063.18348.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHHFyEFQV9Da7vMNMBGRURAaySETj=dVNRKpzghAOSgrwePj8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1395952063.18348.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEFxwP1ZNkSQQRbTobvWwssnhnOS+fgEdWK2rZBddqO5JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Hank, I sent her your email address, Her name is Leslie, she will
contact you to see if she can help you.



Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:27 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:

> David,
> What is the company name?
> Hank
>
>
>   On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:12:54 PM, David Colombo <
> seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi Hank,
> I just got quoted on my sub while under construction and during
> transportation while under construction, its actually quite reasonable, I
> do have to have an alarm on the storage building and as the project becomes
> more complete ie: more expensive parts arrive I can adjust the polity up in
> value. Took a while to find the company that would underwrite it now and
> after completion. Not sure about canada vs california but I could make a
> referral off line.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
>
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> http://www.seaquestor.com/
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:04 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have all my business insurance with the same agency. I do not have
> insurance on my sub.
> Be careful what questions you ask of your existing carrier! My broker said
> that if the underwriters find out that I have a sub, my Inland Marine,
> Umbrella, Liability may be rate adjusted or canceled. I understand this
> because in my early days I was in that business.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jim K
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:
>
> Jon, Joe
> I just returned from our local auto insurance agency.  I can not buy cargo
> insurance from the auto insurance provider.  In our case it is ICBC
> Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia.  My trailer is insured under my
> truck and the cargo is not covered.  They are checking if my house
> insurance can be extended to cover it while stored only.
> My daughter also just let me know that the home insurance should do it but
> I will need to prove value.  This is pretty weird.  Your right Jon, does
> not make sense.
> Hank
>
>
>   On Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:23:16 PM, Jon Wallace <
> jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Are you sure they understood what you wanted?  Trailers are usually
> covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any
> grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.  Like
> Joe said, it's just value.  Same with storage, why would the fact it's a
> submarine make a difference?  How is a submarine in storage any different
> than a boat in storage?  And why on earth would you need certification to
> cover a submarine in storage.  Something not making sense Hank.
>
> Jon
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hank,In aviation,
> incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
> lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
> value.JoeSent
> from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Mar 27 16:40:08 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:40:08 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy modifications
Message-ID: <20140327134008.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5db27bb915.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 16:50:51 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEFxwP1ZNkSQQRbTobvWwssnhnOS+fgEdWK2rZBddqO5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395942803.75974.YahooMailIosMobile@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395944564.55189.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1395949941.53056.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAGbdwUQDvJTdeExbV3ZJh8-vm64Ywc=2GD1CuyoXwTm-kUYtrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHHFyEFQV9Da7vMNMBGRURAaySETj=dVNRKpzghAOSgrwePj8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1395952063.18348.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEFxwP1ZNkSQQRbTobvWwssnhnOS+fgEdWK2rZBddqO5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1395953451.58716.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

David,
That is great, thank you
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:45:29 PM, David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:
  
Hi Hank, I sent her your email address, Her name is Leslie, she will contact you to see if she can help you.





Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
http://www.seaquestor.com/

 


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:27 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

David,
>What is the company name?
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:12:54 PM, David Colombo <seaquestor at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>Hi Hank, 
>I just got quoted on my sub while under construction and during transportation while under construction, its actually quite reasonable, I do have to have an alarm on the storage building and as the project becomes more complete ie: more expensive parts arrive I can adjust the polity up in value. Took a while to find the company that would underwrite it now and after completion. Not sure about canada vs california but I could make a referral off line.
>
>
>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>David Colombo
>
>804 College Ave
>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>(707) 536-1424
>http://www.seaquestor.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:04 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>>
>>
>>I have all my business insurance with the same agency. I do not have insurance on my sub.
>>Be careful what questions you ask of your existing carrier! My broker said that if the underwriters find out that I have a sub, my Inland Marine, Umbrella, Liability may be rate adjusted or canceled. I understand this because in my early days I was in that business. 
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>
>>Jim K
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:52 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Jon, Joe
>>>I just returned from our local auto insurance agency.? I can not buy cargo insurance from the auto insurance provider.? In our case it is ICBC Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia.? My trailer is insured under my truck and the cargo is not covered.? They are checking if my house insurance can be extended to cover it while stored only.?  
>>>My daughter also just let me know that the home insurance should do it but I will need to prove value.? This is pretty weird.? Your right Jon, does not make sense.? 
>>>Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:23:16 PM, Jon Wallace <jon.wallace at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>>
>>>Are you sure they understood what you wanted?? Trailers are usually covered by automobile insurance automatically and I've never heard any grumbling about whether that trailer was a camper, utility, or boat.? Like Joe said, it's just value.? Same with storage, why would the fact it's a submarine make a difference?? How is a submarine in storage any different than a boat in storage?? And why on earth would you need certification to cover a submarine in storage.? Something not making sense Hank.
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------
>>>On Thu, 3/27/14, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hank,In aviation,
>>>incomplete projects are insurable in this way. Materials
>>>lost in a fire or storm are just that, materials with
>>>value.JoeSent
>>>from Yahoo Mail for iPad? ? ? ? ? 
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Thu Mar 27 16:55:49 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 16:55:49 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy modifications
In-Reply-To: <20140327134008.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5db27bb915.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140327134008.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5db27bb915.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <605BB18D-C0E5-4C82-82A5-BBF352B08E10@AOL.com>

Good going, Scott.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:40 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
>  
> Here is a update on KW-350 Trustworthy. The first test in the fall went perfectly with the acceptation of being to light. We were able to throw in a lot of old jacks and things to complete the dive. I have made some more lead weights for the emergency drop weights, but probably one of the coolest mod I made was weights added to the landing skids which also makes the sub more stable than it already was. I posted a few pictures on the psubs site under Trustworthy. The total amount of lead weight added was 80lbs and the total steel weight added to the skids was 225 lbs for a total added of 305 more lbs. I will be conducting more testing in a few weeks at a local lake. I will also be bringing a few buckets of lead so I can measure if I need to add so I can trim out perfectly. My testing in a few weeks will consist of
> *Ballast trimming
> *Sonar testing
> *GPS testing
> *Underwater comm testing
>  
> I will keep you all posed on findings. Thanks!,
> Scott Waters
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 16:58:00 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy modifications
In-Reply-To: <605BB18D-C0E5-4C82-82A5-BBF352B08E10@AOL.com>
References: <20140327134008.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5db27bb915.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <605BB18D-C0E5-4C82-82A5-BBF352B08E10@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1395953880.99882.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
What kind of sonar do you have, what can it do?
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:56:09 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
  
Good going, Scott.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:40 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:


Hey all, 
>
>Here is a update on KW-350 Trustworthy. The first test in the fall went perfectly with the acceptation of being to light. We were able to throw in a lot of old jacks and things to complete the dive. I have made some?more lead weights for the emergency drop weights, but probably one of the coolest mod I made was weights added to the landing skids which also makes the sub more stable than it already was. I posted a few pictures on the psubs site under Trustworthy. The total amount of lead weight added was 80lbs and the total steel weight added to the skids was 225 lbs for a total added of 305 more lbs. I will be conducting?more testing in a few weeks at a local lake. I will also be bringing a few buckets of lead so I can measure if I need to add so I can trim out perfectly. My testing in a few weeks will consist of  
>*Ballast trimming 
>*Sonar testing 
>*GPS testing 
>*Underwater comm testing 
>
>I will keep you all posed on findings. Thanks!, 
>Scott Waters 
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From seaquestor at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 17:03:53 2014
From: seaquestor at gmail.com (David Colombo)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 14:03:53 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy modifications
In-Reply-To: <1395953880.99882.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140327134008.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5db27bb915.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <605BB18D-C0E5-4C82-82A5-BBF352B08E10@AOL.com>
 <1395953880.99882.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEHPhMd=qjx+qDG8_aGAo8eyZ+GJ-UAvW_Z=+XmUxh_TCg@mail.gmail.com>

Scott,
Cant wait to hear the results. Great job.

Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:58 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:

> Scott,
> What kind of sonar do you have, what can it do?
> Hank
>
>
>   On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:56:09 PM, Vance Bradley
> <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>  Good going, Scott.
> Vance
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:40 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Here is a update on KW-350 Trustworthy. The first test in the fall went
> perfectly with the acceptation of being to light. We were able to throw in
> a lot of old jacks and things to complete the dive. I have made some more
> lead weights for the emergency drop weights, but probably one of the
> coolest mod I made was weights added to the landing skids which also makes
> the sub more stable than it already was. I posted a few pictures on the
> psubs site under Trustworthy. The total amount of lead weight added was
> 80lbs and the total steel weight added to the skids was 225 lbs for a total
> added of 305 more lbs. I will be conducting more testing in a few weeks at
> a local lake. I will also be bringing a few buckets of lead so I can
> measure if I need to add so I can trim out perfectly. My testing in a few
> weeks will consist of
> *Ballast trimming
> *Sonar testing
> *GPS testing
> *Underwater comm testing
>
> I will keep you all posed on findings. Thanks!,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 17:25:51 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:25:51 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAtfnlezItmkaz2LQiEEPoOQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAtfnlezItmkaz2LQiEEPoOQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <9683FB73-FB13-402D-BC40-EFBBABA5BEEA@yahoo.com>

The premise behind that notion is "Failure to warn" likely a basic premise worldwide. That is why amateur aircraft are placarded as such. 

I've always suspected that requirement to be more of a public service announcement than a disclaimer.

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:34 PM, "Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl> wrote:

> ?But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk.?
>  
> Doing this makes no sense. If a accident is related to bad safety precautions or a big mistake by the pilot, you have a problem anyway..
>  
> Regards, Emile
>  
>  
>  
> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens "Carsten Standfu? "
> Verzonden: donderdag 27 maart 2014 18:11
> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
>  
> All SL classe subs have a insurance. 
> 
> Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 
> 
> The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly heardattack on his birthday travel
> in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 
> 
> Euronaut has no class but a P&I insurance due to the owners good network in the shipbuilding industry. 
> And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and time to time for a classification society..
> But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 
> 
> But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage the sub do to others. 
> I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a minimum insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
> A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 
> 
> And if teh sub sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by yourself. Just in case you survife.. 
> 
> For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or Motorboat. 
> The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it should be the same. 
> 
> vbr Carsten
> 
> 
> 
> "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb:
> I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.  I contacted my insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter who is an insurance broker.  It is not possible unless the sub is certified.  I was only looking for insurance to cover loss during storage and during transport.  I was only looking for a set amount to cover my actual costs. 
> My next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and maybe my home insurance can be modified.
> Does anyone have insurance on a sub here?
> Hank
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Thu Mar 27 18:48:00 2014
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?=)
Date: 27 Mar 2014 22:48 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAtfnlezItmkaz2LQiEEPoOQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAtfnlezItmkaz2LQiEEPoOQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <1WTJ5q-42dWnw0@fwd03.t-online.de>

Thats right. If you make bad saftey precautions or a mistake.. 

But if you make no mistake and he just wash overboard and battered in
pieces by the propeller
- and later his lawer comes with funny arguments, like "there is no
railing all around on your submarine and my client was not aware of it."


In that case you have a nice paper that your guest have notice that.. 
If somebody not sign this paper he will not tavel with the submarine.. 

groet Carsten


"Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl> schrieb: 
?But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a
potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk.?

Doing this makes no sense. If a accident is related to bad safety
precautions or a big mistake by the pilot, you have a problem anyway..

Regards, Emile






Van: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens "Carsten
Standfu? "
Verzonden: donderdag 27 maart 2014 18:11
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance

All SL classe subs have a insurance. 

Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 

The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly
heardattack on his birthday travel
in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 

Euronaut has no class but a P&I insurance due to the owners good network
in the shipbuilding industry. 
And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and
time to time for a classification society..
But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a
potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 

But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage the
sub do to others. 
I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a minimum
insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 

And if teh sub sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by
yourself. Just in case you survife.. 

For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or
Motorboat. 
The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it
should be the same. 

vbr Carsten



"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb: 
I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.  I contacted my
insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter
who is an insurance broker.  It is not possible unless the sub is
certified.  I was only looking for insurance to cover loss during
storage and during transport.  I was only looking for a set amount to
cover my actual costs.  
My next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and
maybe my home insurance can be modified.
Does anyone have insurance on a sub here?
Hank

 
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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Thu Mar 27 19:58:40 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 16:58:40 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
Message-ID: <20140327165840.BE951443@m0048140.ppops.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 20:07:11 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <20140327165840.BE951443@m0048140.ppops.net>
References: <20140327165840.BE951443@m0048140.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1395965231.18907.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
So far, you won't be keeping your sub in a marina requiring insurance.? Maybe if you call it a boat not a sub.
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 5:59:02 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
What about if you want to keep your sub in a slip in a marina, most of the marinas require insurance for your boat.

Brian

--- MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:

From: "Carsten Standfu? " <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
Date: 27 Mar 2014 22:48 GMT

Thats right. If you make bad saftey 
precautions or a mistake.. 

But if you make no mistake and he
just wash 
overboard and battered in pieces by the propeller
- and later
his 
lawer comes with funny arguments,?like "there is no railing all
around on 
your submarine and my client was not aware of it." 

In that
case?you 
have a nice paper that your guest have notice that.. 
If somebody not
sign 
this paper he will not tavel with the submarine.. 

groet 
Carsten


"Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl> schrieb: 
But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that
a submarine is a potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on
there
own risk.  
>Doing this makes no sense. If a accident is related to
bad safety precautions or a big mistake by the pilot, you have a
problem
anyway..  
>Regards, Emile    
>
>________________________________
>  
>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens "Carsten Standfu? "
>Verzonden: donderdag 27 maart 2014
18:11
>Aan: Personal Submersibles General
Discussion
>Onderwerp: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST]
insurance  
>All SL classe subs have a insurance. 
>
>Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 
>
>The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly
heardattack
on his birthday travel
>in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 
>
>Euronaut has no class but?a P&I insurance due to the owners
good
network in the shipbuilding industry. 
>And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and
time to
time for a classification society..
>But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine
is a
potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 
>
>But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage the
sub do
to others. 
>I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a
minimum
insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
>A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 
>
>And if teh sub?sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by
yourself.
Just in case you survife.. 
>
>For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or
Motorboat. 
>The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it
should be
the same. 
>
>vbr Carsten
>
>
>
>"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb:  
>I
have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.? I contacted my
insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter
who is
an insurance broker.? It is not possible unless the sub is
certified.? I was only looking for insurance to cover loss during
storage
and during transport.? I was only looking for a set amount to
cover
my?actual costs.?  
>My
next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and
maybe my
home insurance can be modified. 
>Does
anyone have insurance on a sub here? 
>Hank   ? _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 21:14:57 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 18:14:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <1395969297.82717.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi All,
I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Mar 27 21:21:25 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 20:21:25 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy modifications
Message-ID: <cvtmybh0hhmt4jf1wbddcyyq.1395969524049@email.android.com>

I have a hummin bird 898. It has side scan sonar up to 180 feet and can see picture like images in black and yellow. It also is linked to the GPS so you can mark your dive sites and know your position. It also works as a depth sounder so you know how many feet under keel.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Scott,
What kind of sonar do you have, what can it do?
Hank


On Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:56:09 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
Good going, Scott.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:40 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

Hey all,
?
Here is a update on KW-350 Trustworthy. The first test in the fall went perfectly with the acceptation of being to light. We were able to throw in a lot of old jacks and things to complete the dive. I have made some?more lead weights for the emergency drop weights, but probably one of the coolest mod I made was weights added to the landing skids which also makes the sub more stable than it already was. I posted a few pictures on the psubs site under Trustworthy. The total amount of lead weight added was 80lbs and the total steel weight added to the skids was 225 lbs for a total added of 305 more lbs. I will be conducting?more testing in a few weeks at a local lake. I will also be bringing a few buckets of lead so I can measure if I need to add so I can trim out perfectly. My testing in a few weeks will consist of
*Ballast trimming
*Sonar testing
*GPS testing
*Underwater comm testing
?
I will keep you all posed on findings. Thanks!,
Scott Waters
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Mar 27 21:22:28 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 20:22:28 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <qrwyoatcfeb17gn9c73vn4c8.1395969719513@email.android.com>

What kind of radio? VHF or underwater com?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Hi All,
I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 21:30:43 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 18:30:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <qrwyoatcfeb17gn9c73vn4c8.1395969719513@email.android.com>
References: <qrwyoatcfeb17gn9c73vn4c8.1395969719513@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1395970243.12003.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Scott,
I am jealous, I want one!? The radio's are under water com.? There are three right now but One will be sacrificed for parts to make two perfect radio's.
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:22:54 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
What kind of radio? VHF or underwater com?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi All,
I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Thu Mar 27 21:38:34 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 20:38:34 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <sor6i6rfjkjoj83ihi13mypl.1395970569921@email.android.com>

When I bought my OTS I bought them used. The one that is in my sub was $600, the surface unit was $1500, and the headset and antena for my sub was $300.
The humminbird 898 was about $2000. I want to upgrade to the 360 degree unit, but it is another $2,000. Alot of money for a sonar, but soooo cool.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Hi Scott,
I am jealous, I want one!? The radio's are under water com.? There are three right now but One will be sacrificed for parts to make two perfect radio's.
Hank


On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:22:54 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
What kind of radio? VHF or underwater com?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Thu Mar 27 22:24:17 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 19:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <sor6i6rfjkjoj83ihi13mypl.1395970569921@email.android.com>
References: <sor6i6rfjkjoj83ihi13mypl.1395970569921@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1395973457.91546.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
Agreed, soooo? cooool? is an understatement.
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:38:59 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
When I bought my OTS I bought them used. The one that is in my sub was $600, the surface unit was $1500, and the headset and antena for my sub was $300.
The humminbird 898 was about $2000. I want to upgrade to the 360 degree unit, but it is another $2,000. Alot of money for a sonar, but soooo cool.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi Scott,
I am jealous, I want one!? The radio's are under water com.? There are three right now but One will be sacrificed for parts to make two perfect radio's.
Hank



On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:22:54 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
What kind of radio? VHF or underwater com?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi All,
I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From psub101 at indy.rr.com  Fri Mar 28 10:16:23 2014
From: psub101 at indy.rr.com (Steve McQueen)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:16:23 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1395969297.82717.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395969297.82717.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGz3FBcFQNWdnWVQXTpacibMh_7M_MvuDW9hZVinby2CTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild".
What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:

> Hi All,
> I need radio advice.  My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to
> as new condition for 2,000 dollars.  He has checked them out and says they
> are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.  The radio's have a
> 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.   I am
> assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.  I have no idea what
> these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can
> replace for the same money.
> I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to
> fix the radio's.
> Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 11:00:30 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <CAAGGCGz3FBcFQNWdnWVQXTpacibMh_7M_MvuDW9hZVinby2CTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1395969297.82717.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGz3FBcFQNWdnWVQXTpacibMh_7M_MvuDW9hZVinby2CTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1396018830.26155.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
  
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve




On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi All,
>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
>Hank
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 11:10:24 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:10:24 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <20140328081024.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.9b04b89a8d.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 11:28:27 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:28:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <20140328081024.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.9b04b89a8d.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140328081024.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.9b04b89a8d.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1396020507.76814.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
Thanks,
Scott Waters? 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Steve, 
>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>Steve
> 
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Hi All, 
>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>Hank
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 11:34:45 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:34:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396020507.76814.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140328081024.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.9b04b89a8d.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <1396020507.76814.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396020885.21735.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
  
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
Thanks,
Scott Waters? 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Steve, 
>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>Steve
> 
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Hi All, 
>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>Hank
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 11:41:57 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:41:57 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <iio1xin4np2x89uixs0trrmb.1396021260949@email.android.com>

Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 11:46:26 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <iio1xin4np2x89uixs0trrmb.1396021260949@email.android.com>
References: <iio1xin4np2x89uixs0trrmb.1396021260949@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1396021586.53351.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
  
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
Thanks,
Scott Waters? 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Steve, 
>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>Steve
> 
>
>
>
>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Hi All, 
>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>Hank
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    

    

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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 11:59:37 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:59:37 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <20140328085936.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9d11910c9.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 12:26:44 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <20140328085936.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9d11910c9.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140328085936.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a9d11910c9.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1396024004.85103.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 

Thanks, 
Scott Waters 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott, 
>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>Scott, 
>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters? 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Steve, 
>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>Steve
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All, 
>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>________________________________
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From MerlinSub at t-online.de  Fri Mar 28 12:31:00 2014
From: MerlinSub at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?=)
Date: 28 Mar 2014 16:31 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <20140327165840.BE951443@m0048140.ppops.net>
References: <20140327165840.BE951443@m0048140.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1WTZh9-31i4uG0@fwd22.t-online.de>

I have slip douzend of different boats on differnet slipways. 
They never called for a insurance.  Sometimes they call for 5 bucks..

"Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> schrieb: 
What about if you want to keep your sub in a slip in a marina, most of
the marinas require insurance for your boat.

Brian

--- MerlinSub at t-online.de wrote:

From: "Carsten Standfu? " <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
Date: 27 Mar 2014 22:48 GMT

Thats right. If you make bad saftey precautions or a mistake.. 

But if you make no mistake and he just wash overboard and battered in
pieces by the propeller
- and later his lawer comes with funny arguments, like "there is no
railing all around on your submarine and my client was not aware of it."


In that case you have a nice paper that your guest have notice that.. 
If somebody not sign this paper he will not tavel with the submarine.. 

groet Carsten


"Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl> schrieb: 
?But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a
potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk.?
Doing this makes no sense. If a accident is related to bad safety
precautions or a big mistake by the pilot, you have a problem anyway.. 
Regards, Emile 



Van: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens "Carsten
Standfu? "
Verzonden: donderdag 27 maart 2014 18:11
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
All SL classe subs have a insurance. 

Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 

The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly
heardattack on his birthday travel
in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 

Euronaut has no class but a P&I insurance due to the owners good network
in the shipbuilding industry. 
And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and
time to time for a classification society..
But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a
potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 

But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage the
sub do to others. 
I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a minimum
insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 

And if teh sub sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by
yourself. Just in case you survife.. 

For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or
Motorboat. 
The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it
should be the same. 

vbr Carsten



"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb: 
I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.  I contacted my
insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter
who is an insurance broker.  It is not possible unless the sub is
certified.  I was only looking for insurance to cover loss during
storage and during transport.  I was only looking for a set amount to
cover my actual costs.  
My next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and
maybe my home insurance can be modified. 
Does anyone have insurance on a sub here? 
Hank 
  _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles
mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
 
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 12:36:08 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1WTZh9-31i4uG0@fwd22.t-online.de>
References: <20140327165840.BE951443@m0048140.ppops.net>
 <1WTZh9-31i4uG0@fwd22.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1396024568.55478.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Brian,
I kept my 8k lbs sub in my boat slip with no questions about insurance.? My biggest problem was keeping people off it.? I moved it to a anchor in the bay and covered the windows and that worked.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:32:06 AM, Carsten Standfu? <MerlinSub at t-online.de> wrote:
  
E-Mail Software 6.0
I have slip douzend of different boats 
on differnet slipways. 
They never called for a
insurance.? Sometimes they call for 5 bucks.. 


"Brian Cox" <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> schrieb: 
What about if you want to keep your sub in a slip in a marina,
most of the marinas require insurance for your
boat.
>
>Brian
>
>--- MerlinSub at t-online.de
wrote:
>
>From: "Carsten Standfu? "
<MerlinSub at t-online.de>
>To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
>Date: 27 Mar 2014 22:48 GMT
>
>Thats right. If you make bad saftey 
precautions or a mistake.. 
>
>But if you make no mistake and he
just wash 
overboard and battered in pieces by the propeller
>- and later
his 
lawer comes with funny arguments,?like "there is no railing all
around on 
your submarine and my client was not aware of it." 
>
>In that
case?you 
have a nice paper that your guest have notice that.. 
>If somebody
not
sign 
this paper he will not tavel with the submarine.. 
>
>groet 
Carsten
>
>
>"Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl> schrieb: 
>?But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that
a submarine is a potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on
there
own risk.?  
>>Doing this makes no sense. If a accident is
related to
bad safety precautions or a big mistake by the pilot, you have a
problem
anyway..  
>>Regards, Emile    
>>
>>________________________________
>>   
>>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens "Carsten Standfu?
"
>>Verzonden: donderdag 27
maart 2014
18:11
>>Aan: Personal Submersibles
General
Discussion
>>Onderwerp: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST]
insurance  
>>All SL classe subs have a insurance. 
>>
>>Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 
>>
>>The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly
heardattack
on his birthday travel
>>in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 
>>
>>Euronaut has no class but?a P&I insurance due to the owners
good
network in the shipbuilding industry. 
>>And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and
time to
time for a classification society..
>>But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a
submarine
is a
potential dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 
>>
>>But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage
the
sub do
to others. 
>>I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a
minimum
insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
>>A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 
>>
>>And if teh sub?sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by
yourself.
Just in case you survife.. 
>>
>>For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or
Motorboat. 
>>The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it
should be
the same. 
>>
>>vbr Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb:   
>>I
have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.? I contacted my
insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my
daughter
who is
an insurance broker.? It is not possible unless the sub is
certified.? I was only looking for insurance to cover loss during
storage
and during transport.? I was only looking for a set amount to
cover
my?actual costs.?   
>>My
next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and
maybe my
home insurance can be modified.  
>>Does
anyone have insurance on a sub here?  
>>Hank   ? _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles   ?

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 13:18:28 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:18:28 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <xevujpueymlrofc5iddr7dfw.1396027085859@email.android.com>

Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From psub101 at indy.rr.com  Fri Mar 28 13:28:51 2014
From: psub101 at indy.rr.com (Steve McQueen)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:28:51 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1395969297.82717.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395969297.82717.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGz0tYg0QnM+yqKVSBnaKn6JYcZG8jCdO0X=TJ32xQJW8A@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like it is commercial old school equipment. Usually that stuff is
solid and would be a good investment. Especially if this guy is standing
behind his work.

Photos?


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>wrote:

> Hi All,
> I need radio advice.  My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to
> as new condition for 2,000 dollars.  He has checked them out and says they
> are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.  The radio's have a
> 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.   I am
> assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.  I have no idea what
> these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can
> replace for the same money.
> I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to
> fix the radio's.
> Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 13:29:42 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <xevujpueymlrofc5iddr7dfw.1396027085859@email.android.com>
References: <xevujpueymlrofc5iddr7dfw.1396027085859@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1396027782.55084.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .? 
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 

Thanks, 
Scott Waters 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott, 
>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>Scott, 
>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters? 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Steve, 
>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>Steve
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All, 
>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>________________________________
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 13:40:12 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396027782.55084.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <xevujpueymlrofc5iddr7dfw.1396027085859@email.android.com>
 <1396027782.55084.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396028412.72768.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .? 
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott,
>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Scott,
>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> 
>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters?
>?
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Steve,
>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All,
>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 13:50:25 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396027965.35008.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1395969297.82717.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAAGGCGz0tYg0QnM+yqKVSBnaKn6JYcZG8jCdO0X=TJ32xQJW8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1396027965.35008.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396029025.72450.YahooMailNeo@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I told the tec guy that he had to come for the first dive to prove he stands behind his work, haha? like a airplane mechanic has to go for a flight after he makes a repair.?
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:32:47 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
  
Steve,
I attached a photo but I have no luck with adding photo's, so I will add the photo to my gamma restoration page
Hank




On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:29:15 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
  
Sounds like it is commercial old school equipment. Usually that stuff is solid and would be a good investment. Especially if this guy is standing behind his work.? 


Photos?
 



On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi All,
>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
>Hank
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 13:50:53 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <20140328105053.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a420543755.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar 28 14:10:06 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396028412.72768.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <xevujpueymlrofc5iddr7dfw.1396027085859@email.android.com>
 <1396027782.55084.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396028412.72768.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396030206.29723.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
From what I can find so far, the diver equip does not have near the range.? If the figures are true with my radio's, my wife can sit on the dock and read her book and check in with me from time to time.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:40:33 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan
 

________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
  


Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .? 
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 

Thanks, 
Scott Waters 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott, 
>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>Scott, 
>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters? 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Steve, 
>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>Steve
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All, 
>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>________________________________
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


    

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


   

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 16:45:07 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:45:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396030206.29723.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <xevujpueymlrofc5iddr7dfw.1396027085859@email.android.com>
 <1396027782.55084.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396028412.72768.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396030206.29723.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396039507.64451.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
I'm not clued up on sonar, but I remember reading that G.L. requires a downward & forward looking
sonar. Certainly the forward looking sonar would be useful for collision avoidance in low vis conditions.
Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Alan,
From what I can find so far, the diver equip does not have near the range.? If the figures are true with my radio's, my wife can sit on the dock and read her book and check in with me from time to time.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:40:33 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .? 
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott,
>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Scott,
>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> 
>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters?
>?
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Steve,
>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All,
>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 17:01:03 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 16:01:03 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <hn963b5upyyeibj5si482ldp.1396040369901@email.android.com>

If you can afford it, get the 360 degree modual. It is another $2,000, but it would do forward looking, side scan, and downward!
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:Hank,
I'm not clued up on sonar, but I remember reading that G.L. requires a downward & forward looking
sonar. Certainly the forward looking sonar would be useful for collision avoidance in low vis conditions.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

Alan,
From what I can find so far, the diver equip does not have near the range.? If the figures are true with my radio's, my wife can sit on the dock and read her book and check in with me from time to time.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:40:33 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice. My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's. I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 17:32:31 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 14:32:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <hn963b5upyyeibj5si482ldp.1396040369901@email.android.com>
References: <hn963b5upyyeibj5si482ldp.1396040369901@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1396042351.37413.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
just had a look at the Hummingbird 360. Very impressive.
I wonder what depth you could take the transducer down to?
It has a deployment system where it is lowered below the boat.
I'm not sure how we would get around the fact that it would be
quite vulnerable mounted unobstructed & below the submarine.
Alan



________________________________
 From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


If you can afford it, get the 360 degree modual. It is another $2,000, but it would do forward looking, side scan, and downward!
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hank,
I'm not clued up on sonar, but I remember reading that G.L. requires a downward & forward looking
sonar. Certainly the forward looking sonar would be useful for collision avoidance in low vis conditions.
Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Alan,
From what I can find so far, the diver equip does not have near the range.? If the figures are true with my radio's, my wife can sit on the dock and read her book and check in with me from time to time.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:40:33 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .? 
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott,
>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Scott,
>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> 
>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters?
>?
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Steve,
>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All,
>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 17:41:06 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 16:41:06 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <o980rcsko9f7vpc26oo5spob.1396042700586@email.android.com>

I would rip the transducer off the deployment system and hard mount it on the underside of the front. This would allow a 270 degree range or so. Seeing behind you isn't that terrebly important in my eyes. The transducer will go way down. It is epoxy filled and has no air in it.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:Scott,
just had a look at the Hummingbird 360. Very impressive.
I wonder what depth you could take the transducer down to?
It has a deployment system where it is lowered below the boat.
I'm not sure how we would get around the fact that it would be
quite vulnerable mounted unobstructed & below the submarine.
Alan


From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

If you can afford it, get the 360 degree modual. It is another $2,000, but it would do forward looking, side scan, and downward!
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
Hank,
I'm not clued up on sonar, but I remember reading that G.L. requires a downward & forward looking
sonar. Certainly the forward looking sonar would be useful for collision avoidance in low vis conditions.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

Alan,
From what I can find so far, the diver equip does  not have near the range.? If the figures are true with my radio's, my wife can sit on the dock and read her book and check in with me from time to time.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:40:33 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice. My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's. I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 18:33:56 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 15:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <o980rcsko9f7vpc26oo5spob.1396042700586@email.android.com>
References: <o980rcsko9f7vpc26oo5spob.1396042700586@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1396046036.31352.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Looks like you've done your homework on it Scott.
Simrad has just put out a forward scanner but I can't find a price.
I think this will be the last item I buy on my current build, as technology
seems to change so quickly.?
Alan


________________________________
 From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


I would rip the transducer off the deployment system and hard mount it on the underside of the front. This would allow a 270 degree range or so. Seeing behind you isn't that terrebly important in my eyes. The transducer will go way down. It is epoxy filled and has no air in it.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Scott,
just had a look at the Hummingbird 360. Very impressive.
I wonder what depth you could take the transducer down to?
It has a deployment system where it is lowered below the boat.
I'm not sure how we would get around the fact that it would be
quite vulnerable mounted unobstructed & below the submarine.
Alan



________________________________
 From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


If you can afford it, get the 360 degree modual. It is another $2,000, but it would do forward looking, side scan, and downward!
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hank,
I'm not clued up on sonar, but I remember reading that G.L. requires a downward & forward looking
sonar. Certainly the forward looking sonar would be useful for collision avoidance in low vis conditions.
Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Alan,
From what I can find so far, the diver equip does not have near the range.? If the figures are true with my radio's, my wife can sit on the dock and read her book and check in with me from time to time.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:40:33 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .? 
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank



On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott,
>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Scott,
>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> 
>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters?
>?
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Steve,
>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All,
>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>Hank
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Fri Mar 28 18:49:55 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 17:49:55 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <id67qw7jlrbh3lvbahddnu61.1396046933082@email.android.com>

Yea. I was worried about spending a ton of money on a sonar and under water comms. I did alot of research to make me feel better about it.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:Looks like you've done your homework on it Scott.
Simrad has just put out a forward scanner but I can't find a price.
I think this will be the last item I buy on my current build, as technology
seems to change so quickly.?
Alan

From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

I would rip the transducer off the deployment system and hard mount it on the underside of the front. This would allow a 270 degree range or so. Seeing behind you isn't that terrebly important in my eyes. The transducer will go way down. It is epoxy filled and has no air in it.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
Scott,
just had a look at the Hummingbird 360. Very impressive.
I wonder what depth you could take the transducer down to?
It has a deployment system where it is lowered below the boat.
I'm not sure how we would get around the fact that it would be
quite vulnerable mounted unobstructed & below the submarine.
Alan


From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

If you can afford it, get the 360 degree modual. It is another $2,000, but it would do forward looking, side scan, and downward!
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
Hank,
I'm not clued up on sonar, but I remember reading that G.L. requires a downward & forward looking
sonar. Certainly the forward looking sonar would be useful for collision avoidance in low vis conditions.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

Alan,
From what I can find so far, the diver equip does  not have near the range.? If the figures are true with my radio's, my wife can sit on the dock and read her book and check in with me from time to time.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:40:33 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
Hank,
your communication equipment might have a lot more power
than a divers unit. The diver has to carry the batteries
with him & is not going as deep as you are.
Alan

From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's

Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice. My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's. I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.
I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





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From brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com  Fri Mar 28 20:40:39 2014
From: brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com (Brian Cox)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 17:40:39 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <20140328174039.BE84E1F6@m0005296.ppops.net>

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From emile at airesearch.nl  Sat Mar 29 07:30:05 2014
From: emile at airesearch.nl (Emile van Essen)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 12:30:05 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance
In-Reply-To: <1WTJ5q-42dWnw0@fwd03.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAA39QcIjhro0ekv/e1ABJn0wEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

The offer from Hanseatic underwriters has some funny points to reduce their
risk:

 

-passengers from the US and Canada are not covered in the liability
insurance

-underwater operations are not covered..

 

On the other hand is  salvage cost covered for several millions !

 

With other words the insurer don?t understand Because we are a small group..

 

Maybe a Psubs collective insurance is a idea.  

 

Regards, Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens "Carsten Standfu? "
Verzonden: donderdag 27 maart 2014 23:48
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance

 

Thats right. If you make bad saftey precautions or a mistake.. 

But if you make no mistake and he just wash overboard and battered in pieces
by the propeller
- and later his lawer comes with funny arguments, like "there is no railing
all around on your submarine and my client was not aware of it." 

In that case you have a nice paper that your guest have notice that.. 
If somebody not sign this paper he will not tavel with the submarine.. 

groet Carsten


"Emile van Essen" <emile at airesearch.nl> schrieb: 

?But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a potential
dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk.?

Doing this makes no sense. If a accident is related to bad safety
precautions or a big mistake by the pilot, you have a problem anyway..

Regards, Emile

  _____  

size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> 

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens "Carsten Standfu? "
Verzonden: donderdag 27 maart 2014 18:11
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] insurance

All SL classe subs have a insurance. 

Nessesary if you try to carry passengers for money. 

The lawer of the children of a 90 years old passenger with a deadly
heardattack on his birthday travel
in your sub will strip you to nothing if you have no insurance. 

Euronaut has no class but a P&I insurance due to the owners good network in
the shipbuilding industry. 
And maybe due to the fact that the owner work as naval architect and time to
time for a classification society..
But anyway passenger have to sign a paper that a submarine is a potential
dangerous machine and they take the trip on there own risk. 

But why you want to insure? The insurance will only cover the damage the sub
do to others. 
I dont think that you sub will do major damage to others. Such a minimum
insurance will cost you about 4000-5000 USD a year. 
A full insurance in all directions will cost you maybe 10 times more. 

And if teh sub sinks it will be much cheaper if you raise it by yourself.
Just in case you survife.. 

For transport on a road you can insure the boat just as cargo or Motorboat. 
The insurance will not see a special risk in that. And for storage it should
be the same. 

vbr Carsten



"hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> schrieb: 

I have made an attempt to buy insurance for my sub.  I contacted my
insurance broker that I deal with for my business as well as my daughter who
is an insurance broker.  It is not possible unless the sub is certified.  I
was only looking for insurance to cover loss during storage and during
transport.  I was only looking for a set amount to cover my actual costs.  

My next attempt will be adding cargo insurance through my business and maybe
my home insurance can be modified.

Does anyone have insurance on a sub here?

Hank

 

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 29 12:04:42 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <20140328174039.BE84E1F6@m0005296.ppops.net>
References: <20140328174039.BE84E1F6@m0005296.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <1396109082.48087.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7 
Hank
On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !

Brian

--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:

From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700



Hank, 
There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc 

Thanks, 
Scott Waters 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott, 
>I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?  
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.? 
>-Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Thanks' Scott, 
>I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
>http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 
>
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Scott, 
>>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>>Thanks, 
>>Scott Waters 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>Scott, 
>>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters? 
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve, 
>>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>>Steve
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi All, 
>>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>>Hank
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sat Mar 29 14:25:39 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:25:39 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <lakkjw7cjw8hcn1aj7ohyc61.1396117083989@email.android.com>

I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Scott,
Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7
Hank
On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
?
Brian

--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:

From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700

?
Hank,
There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.
?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now. The pinger works and one frequency works only. They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice. My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars. He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect. The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual. I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's. I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can replace for the same money.
I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 29 15:30:34 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 12:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <lakkjw7cjw8hcn1aj7ohyc61.1396117083989@email.android.com>
References: <lakkjw7cjw8hcn1aj7ohyc61.1396117083989@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1396121434.70093.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Scott,
I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though.
Hank
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Scott,
Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7 
Hank
On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !

Brian

--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:

From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700



Hank, 
There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc 

Thanks, 
Scott Waters 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott, 
>I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?  
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.? 
>-Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Thanks' Scott, 
>I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
>http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 
>
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Scott, 
>>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>>Thanks, 
>>Scott Waters 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>Scott, 
>>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters? 
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve, 
>>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>>Steve
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi All, 
>>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>>Hank
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
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>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Sat Mar 29 15:47:40 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 14:47:40 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Message-ID: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>

Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Hi Scott,
I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though.
Hank
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7
Hank
On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
?
Brian

--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:

From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700

?
Hank,
There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.
?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now. The pinger works and one frequency works only. They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank


On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
Steve


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I need radio advice. My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars. He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect. The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual. I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's. I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can replace for the same money.
I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 29 15:55:52 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 12:55:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1396122952.96476.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott just bet me too it Hank,?
I think you'll need a descent sonar on the sub & get down there to find your bullion.
Perhaps you could buy an extra transducer for the boat & unplug the sonar unit
& put it in the sub before you dive.?
Alan


________________________________
 From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi Scott,
I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though.
Hank
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
 
I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Scott,
Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7 
Hank
On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
 
Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
?
Brian

--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:

From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700


?
Hank,
There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare. 
?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott,
>I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .? 
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.?
>-Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Thanks' Scott,
>I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
>Hank
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
> 
>Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
>http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
>?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>?
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Scott,
>>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though.
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>
>>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.?
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Scott,
>>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
>>Hank
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters?
>>?
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve,
>>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
>>>Hank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi All,
>>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.? 
>>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's. 
>>>>Hank
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From vbra676539 at aol.com  Sat Mar 29 16:06:35 2014
From: vbra676539 at aol.com (vbra676539 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 16:06:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>

Hank, Scott,


You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands.


Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's



Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi Scott,
I will need help,lol,  I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.  So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.  I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.  So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.  I will need 500 foot range though.
Hank
 
 
 
  On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
  

I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Scott,
Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.  I am also looking at buying a sonar now.  It's all your fault,lol.  I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?  I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7 
Hank
 
 
 
  On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
  

Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
 
Brian

--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:

From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700


 
Hank,
There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each). Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc
 
Thanks,
Scott Waters
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>


Scott,
I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.  When you start testing could you post some pic's .  
Hank




On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:



Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything. 
-Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Thanks' Scott,
I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
Hank




On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:



Here is the link Hank. Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
 
Thanks,
Scott Waters
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>



Scott,
I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.  The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.  He was probably giving me a sales job though.
Hank




On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:



Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck. 
Thanks,
Scott Waters










Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.  Manufactured by EDO Corporation.  They were refurbished in 1992
Hank




On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:



Scott,
I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.  The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.  The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.  The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
Hank




On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:



Who did you say gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
Thanks,
Scott Waters 
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>



Steve,
The radio's do not work completely now.  The pinger works and one frequency works only.  They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
Hank




On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:



Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?

Steve




On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:



Hi All,
I need radio advice.  My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.  He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.  The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.   I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.  I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can replace for the same money.  
I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
Hank


_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







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_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 29 16:44:45 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:44:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.? The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-)? 
Vance,
I will call them what they are UQC's? :-)
Hank
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
  
Hank, Scott, 
 
You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which
 explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands. 
 
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's


Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000. 
Thanks, 
Scott Waters 
 
 
 
 
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi Scott, 
I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though. 
Hank 
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided. 
Thanks, 
Scott Waters 
 
 
 
 
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Scott, 
Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7  
Hank 
On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
  
Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub ! 

Brian

--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:

From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700

  

Hank, 
There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc 

Thanks, 
Scott Waters 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott, 
>I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?  
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.? 
>-Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Thanks' Scott, 
>I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back. 
>Hank 
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
>http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 
>
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Scott, 
>>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>>Thanks, 
>>Scott Waters  
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>Scott, 
>>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters? 
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve, 
>>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>>
Steve
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi All, 
>>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.  
>>>>Hank    
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>   
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>   
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>
>>        
>>
>>        
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>
>>      
_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>   
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>        
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>     
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles   
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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Sat Mar 29 17:01:27 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 17:01:27 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>

I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.  The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-) 
> Vance,
> I will call them what they are UQC's  :-)
> Hank
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
> Hank, Scott,
> 
> You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands.
> 
> Vance
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
> 
> Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> I will need help,lol,  I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.  So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.  I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.  So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.  I will need 500 foot range though.
> Hank
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Scott,
> Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.  I am also looking at buying a sonar now.  It's all your fault,lol.  I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?  I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7
> Hank
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
> Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
>  
> Brian
> 
> --- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
> 
> From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
> 
>  
> Hank,
> There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each). Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.
>  
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc
>  
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> Scott,
> I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.  When you start testing could you post some pic's . 
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything. 
> -Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Thanks' Scott,
> I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> Here is the link Hank. Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
> http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
>  
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> Scott,
> I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.  The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.  He was probably giving me a sales job though.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck. 
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.  Manufactured by EDO Corporation.  They were refurbished in 1992
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Scott,
> I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.  The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.  The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.  The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> Who did you say gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters 
>  
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> Steve,
> The radio's do not work completely now.  The pinger works and one frequency works only.  They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
> Steve
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I need radio advice.  My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.  He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.  The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.   I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.  I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can replace for the same money. 
> I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
> Hank
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 29 17:11:40 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 14:11:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
My guy said he had ?to research the UQC to get schematic's and in doing so he claims they are 10k per unit.? Alan Whitfield from Silvercrest says UQC's are 3 to 5 K pre set.? So I don't know ?
I will ask him how much to reproduce them for you.
Hank
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:02:01 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
  
I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Scott,
>Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.? The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-)? 
>Vance,
>I will call them what they are UQC's? :-)
>Hank
>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>  
>Hank, Scott, 
>
> 
>You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which
 explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands. 
>
> 
>Vance
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>
>
>Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000. 
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Hi Scott, 
>I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though. 
>Hank 
>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>  
>I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided. 
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Scott, 
>Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7  
>Hank 
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>  
>Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub ! 
>
>Brian
>
>--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>
>From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
>
>  
>
>Hank, 
>There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.  
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc 
>
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Scott, 
>>I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?  
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.? 
>>-Scott Waters 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks' Scott, 
>>I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
>>http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 
>>
>>Thanks, 
>>Scott Waters 
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott, 
>>>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>>>Thanks, 
>>>Scott Waters  
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Scott, 
>>>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>>>Thanks,
>>>Scott Waters? 
>>>
>>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Steve, 
>>>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>>>Hank 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>>>
Steve
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Hi All, 
>>>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.  
>>>>>Hank    
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>      
_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>   
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>>
>>>        
>>>
>>>        
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>   
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>
>>        
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>
>>     
>>
>>________________________________
>>
_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles   
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>        
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>       
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles     
>
>_______________________________________________
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>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 29 17:13:01 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 14:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
 <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396127581.37353.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
Why three?
On , hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
  
Vance,
My guy said he had ?to research the UQC to get schematic's and in doing so he claims they are 10k per unit.? Alan Whitfield from Silvercrest says UQC's are 3 to 5 K pre set.? So I don't know ?
I will ask him how much to reproduce them for you.
Hank
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:02:01 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
  
I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Scott,
>Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.? The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-)? 
>Vance,
>I will call them what they are UQC's? :-)
>Hank
>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>  
>Hank, Scott, 
>
> 
>You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which
 explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands. 
>
> 
>Vance
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>
>
>Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000. 
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Hi Scott, 
>I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though. 
>Hank 
>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>  
>I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided. 
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Scott, 
>Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7  
>Hank 
>On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>  
>Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub ! 
>
>Brian
>
>--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>
>From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
>
>  
>
>Hank, 
>There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.  
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc 
>
>Thanks, 
>Scott Waters 
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>
>>Scott, 
>>I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.? When you start testing could you post some pic's .?  
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything.? 
>>-Scott Waters 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks' Scott, 
>>I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back. 
>>Hank 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>Here is the link Hank.?Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit. 
>>http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370 
>>
>>Thanks, 
>>Scott Waters 
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott, 
>>>I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.? The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.? He was probably giving me a sales job though. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck.? 
>>>Thanks, 
>>>Scott Waters  
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.? Manufactured by EDO Corporation.? They were refurbished in 1992 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Scott, 
>>>I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.? The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.? The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.? The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them. 
>>>Hank 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Who did you say?gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand? 
>>>Thanks,
>>>Scott Waters? 
>>>
>>>-------- Original Message --------
>>>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>>>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>>>>Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>>>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Steve, 
>>>>The radio's do not work completely now.? The pinger works and one frequency works only.? They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new. 
>>>>Hank 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>>>>
Steve
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Hi All, 
>>>>>I need radio advice.? My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.? He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.? The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.? ?I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.? I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing?radio's that I can replace for the same money.?  
>>>>>I would appreciate some?advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.  
>>>>>Hank    
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>      
_______________________________________________
>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>   
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>>
>>>        
>>>
>>>        
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
_______________________________________________
>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>   
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>
>>        
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>>
>>     
>>
>>________________________________
>>
_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles   
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>        
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>       
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles     
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>    
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Sat Mar 29 17:20:51 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 17:20:51 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
 <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <42E6E581-A329-4F25-B962-284F51D05FEF@AOL.com>

$3-5 K? ThT doesn't sound bad compared to what I have seen. Cabling and xducers wiuld be on top of that, one supposes,but still...
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 29, 2014, at 5:11 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Vance,
> My guy said he had  to research the UQC to get schematic's and in doing so he claims they are 10k per unit.  Alan Whitfield from Silvercrest says UQC's are 3 to 5 K pre set.  So I don't know ?
> I will ask him how much to reproduce them for you.
> Hank
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:02:01 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
> I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.  The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-) 
>> Vance,
>> I will call them what they are UQC's  :-)
>> Hank
>> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hank, Scott,
>> 
>> You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands.
>> 
>> Vance
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> 
>> Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Hi Scott,
>> I will need help,lol,  I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.  So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.  I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.  So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.  I will need 500 foot range though.
>> Hank
>> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Scott,
>> Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.  I am also looking at buying a sonar now.  It's all your fault,lol.  I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?  I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7
>> Hank
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>> Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
>>  
>> Brian
>> 
>> --- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>> 
>> From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
>> 
>>  
>> Hank,
>> There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each). Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.
>>  
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>  
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> 
>> Scott,
>> I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.  When you start testing could you post some pic's . 
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything. 
>> -Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Thanks' Scott,
>> I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Here is the link Hank. Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
>> http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>  
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> 
>> Scott,
>> I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.  The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.  He was probably giving me a sales job though.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck. 
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.  Manufactured by EDO Corporation.  They were refurbished in 1992
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Scott,
>> I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.  The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.  The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.  The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Who did you say gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters 
>>  
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> 
>> Steve,
>> The radio's do not work completely now.  The pinger works and one frequency works only.  They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I need radio advice.  My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.  He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.  The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.   I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.  I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can replace for the same money. 
>> I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
>> Hank
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
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From VBra676539 at AOL.com  Sat Mar 29 17:21:39 2014
From: VBra676539 at AOL.com (Vance Bradley)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 17:21:39 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396127581.37353.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
 <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396127581.37353.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5AE71D9E-F36E-40B1-A2EB-30D9CF14E681@AOL.com>

I like a spare, just in case. 
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 29, 2014, at 5:13 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> Vance,
> Why three?
> On , hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Vance,
> My guy said he had  to research the UQC to get schematic's and in doing so he claims they are 10k per unit.  Alan Whitfield from Silvercrest says UQC's are 3 to 5 K pre set.  So I don't know ?
> I will ask him how much to reproduce them for you.
> Hank
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:02:01 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
> I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.  The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-) 
>> Vance,
>> I will call them what they are UQC's  :-)
>> Hank
>> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hank, Scott,
>> 
>> You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands.
>> 
>> Vance
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> 
>> Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Hi Scott,
>> I will need help,lol,  I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.  So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.  I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.  So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.  I will need 500 foot range though.
>> Hank
>> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Scott,
>> Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.  I am also looking at buying a sonar now.  It's all your fault,lol.  I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?  I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7
>> Hank
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>> Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
>>  
>> Brian
>> 
>> --- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>> 
>> From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
>> 
>>  
>> Hank,
>> There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each). Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.
>>  
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xe6pLPdMKc
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>  
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 10:29 am
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> 
>> Scott,
>> I would love to see some pictures of the image you get on your sonar.  When you start testing could you post some pic's . 
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 11:18:57 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Sweet. Good luck! Let me know if I can help on anything. 
>> -Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Thanks' Scott,
>> I have sent out a couple of inquires and I will see what comes back.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 10:00:01 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Here is the link Hank. Great deals on underwater comms. This is where I got mine for my sub and surface unit.
>> http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php?product_category_id=9370
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>  
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:46 am
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> 
>> Scott,
>> I agree, but I am having a hard time finding anything on line.  The tec did say my radio's are better than today's radio's.  He was probably giving me a sales job though.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:42:23 AM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Oh wow. Ok. I was going to say if it was OTS you can send it in for repair. You might check the range and quaility of the radio so you can make a decision if repairing makes sence or if it would be better to buy new units (or used). Alot of times newer technology is better and less expensive especially when it comes to repair. That way you can get the biggest bang for your buck. 
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> I found some info on the radio's, seems they are the original radio's.  Manufactured by EDO Corporation.  They were refurbished in 1992
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:28:27 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Scott,
>> I got the quote from a electronic repair shop.  The radio's are not OTS, I can not remember the name off hand and all the manuals etc are at their shop now.  The radio's are made for submarines, they are not diver radio's.  The radio's are rack mount and they were even labeled with Nekton Gamma on them.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:10:48 AM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> Who did you say gave you the quote? Is this OTS brand?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters 
>>  
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>> Date: Fri, March 28, 2014 8:00 am
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> 
>> Steve,
>> The radio's do not work completely now.  The pinger works and one frequency works only.  They are cleaning up the corrosion and re-sealing them and they claim the radio's will work perfect as new.
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 8:16:43 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hi Hank, I was just curious if you had more specifics regarding "rebuild". What is in that scope? Do they work now?
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:14 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I need radio advice.  My technician tells me, he can rebuild my radio's to as new condition for 2,000 dollars.  He has checked them out and says they are very good radio's and the transducers are perfect.  The radio's have a 1,000 foot depth rating and 6 km range according to the manual.   I am assuming this is much better than buying new radio's.  I have no idea what these are worth and I want to make sure I am not fixing radio's that I can replace for the same money. 
>> I would appreciate some advice before I pull the trigger and tell them to fix the radio's.
>> Hank
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 29 20:58:48 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:58:48 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396127581.37353.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
 <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396127581.37353.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <38368ABE-B1C8-4BF6-AE7B-A4C1DD1B7C1B@yahoo.com>

You guys are scaring me.

I'm thinking to learn morse and tap on the hull!

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2014, at 5:13 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Vance,
> Why three?
> On , hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Vance,
> My guy said he had  to research the UQC to get schematic's and in doing so he claims they are 10k per unit.  Alan Whitfield from Silvercrest says UQC's are 3 to 5 K pre set.  So I don't know ?
> I will ask him how much to reproduce them for you.
> Hank
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:02:01 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
> I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Scott,
>> Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.  The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-) 
>> Vance,
>> I will call them what they are UQC's  :-)
>> Hank
>> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hank, Scott,
>> 
>> You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands.
>> 
>> Vance
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> 
>> Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Hi Scott,
>> I will need help,lol,  I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.  So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.  I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.  So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.  I will need 500 foot range though.
>> Hank
>> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>> 
>> hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Scott,
>> Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.  I am also looking at buying a sonar now.  It's all your fault,lol.  I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?  I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7
>> Hank
>> On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>> Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
>>  
>> Brian
>> 
>> --- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>> 
>> From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
>> 
>>  
>> Hank,
>> There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each). Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.
>>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 29 22:02:02 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <38368ABE-B1C8-4BF6-AE7B-A4C1DD1B7C1B@yahoo.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
 <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396127581.37353.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <38368ABE-B1C8-4BF6-AE7B-A4C1DD1B7C1B@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396144922.50501.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I wouldn't worry about radio contact Joe,
they don't even have it on 777s these days.
Alan


________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
 


You guys are scaring me.

I'm thinking to learn morse and tap on the hull!

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2014, at 5:13 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Vance,
>Why three?
>On , hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>Vance,
>My guy said he had ?to research the UQC to get schematic's and in doing so he claims they are 10k per unit.? Alan Whitfield from Silvercrest says UQC's are 3 to 5 K pre set.? So I don't know ?
>I will ask him how much to reproduce them for you.
>Hank
>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:02:01 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
> 
>I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Scott,
>>Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.? The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-)? 
>>Vance,
>>I will call them what they are UQC's? :-)
>>Hank
>>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Hank, Scott, 
>>
>>
>>You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which
 explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands.
>>
>>
>>Vance
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>
>>
>>Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000.
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Scott,
>>I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though.
>>Hank
>>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>> 
>>I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided.
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Scott,
>>Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7 
>>Hank
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub !
>>?
>>Brian
>>
>>--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>>
>>From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
>>
>> 
>>?
>>Hank,
>>There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare. 
>>?
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Sat Mar 29 22:16:49 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
In-Reply-To: <1396144922.50501.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <2wnygnxa9nbjcfhkss787t5d.1396121793806@email.android.com>
 <8D119A185618DED-1AD4-6CFC@webmail-m209.sysops.aol.com>
 <1396125885.32144.YahooMailNeo@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8DC047AC-4D77-48B0-B705-9DC1055D650F@AOL.com>
 <1396127500.70097.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396127581.37353.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <38368ABE-B1C8-4BF6-AE7B-A4C1DD1B7C1B@yahoo.com>
 <1396144922.50501.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396145809.46823.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
I? am on my third budget, 
Hank
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:02:24 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
I wouldn't worry about radio contact Joe,
they don't even have it on 777s these days.
Alan
 

________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
  


You guys are scaring me.

I'm thinking to learn morse and tap on the hull!

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2014, at 5:13 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:


Vance,
>Why three?
>On , hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>  
>Vance,
>My guy said he had ?to research the UQC to get schematic's and in doing so he claims they are 10k per unit.? Alan Whitfield from Silvercrest says UQC's are 3 to 5 K pre set.? So I don't know ?
>I will ask him how much to reproduce them for you.
>Hank
>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:02:01 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>  
>I think Nuytco gets $10k each for their digital UQCs, and that isn't bad on the current market. Makes the EDOs pretty reasonable, all things considered. If your repair guy is up for building a few like them you'd have an instant cottage industry selling them on psubs and eBay. Sign me up for three plus transducers.
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 29, 2014, at 4:44 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Scott,
>>Very good points, I will have to put the sonar in the sub also then.? The head of the finance department (wife) is okay with abandoning my original budget, but that is pushing it :-)? 
>>Vance,
>>I will call them what they are UQC's? :-)
>>Hank
>>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:06:55 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
>>  
>>Hank, Scott, 
>>
>> 
>>You might want to look at ultra shortbase tracking for the sub. Good systems can be had for $15K. And, as Scott discussed, sonar is also a function of exponential dollars. If you want to stay in the low thousands, then you settle for shorter range and less definition. After that, it's a step up to the big boys at $30K or better. A decent boat sonar can be used in conjunction with a good tracker and a dependable UQC to vector the sub in general toward targets, but to do both on both ends gets pretty expensive. Hank could well double his investment just in electronics, and Scott would be just about tripling his. Moving beyond line-of-sight in the water is expensive, no doubt. Very useful, but painful to the pocketbook. Hank's EDO comm units are UQCs, not radios. The Q is Navy-speak for acoustic, as in underwater acoustic communications. They don't work like radio, of course, in that the signal is converted to acoustic on the send/receive end. Which
 explains why radio antennas cost fifty bucks and transducers like Gamma's cost thousands upon thousands. 
>>
>> 
>>Vance
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 3:48 pm
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>
>>
>>Just remember with these sonars the downward imaging gets less and less sharp the further down you go. After about 150' it really falls off and the image is super small. The sonar beam is a cone shape (I believe like 9 degrees on the downward imagine part). The only way I know of to get good side imaginig from a surface boat in water deeper than 150' is a tow behind and they start at $10,000. If it is on the sub, it is a cheap way to get good imaging. If you wanna get really awesome imaging, get a blue veiw. But they start at $30,000. 
>>Thanks, 
>>Scott Waters 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Scott, 
>>I will need help,lol,? I am actually thinking about keeping the sonar in the tender.? So my partner and I can search for a site and he can keep track of me in the sub as well as talk to me.? I have a real sweet 14 foot alum boat with 35hp it is all old but rock solid.? So I will start looking at the Hummingbird then.? I will need 500 foot range though. 
>>Hank 
>>On Saturday, March 29, 2014 12:25:39 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>>  
>>I would personally stay away from Lowrance. For them to do side scan imaging, you have to buy another modual and it is bulky. The humminbird is all slef contained. I honestly wanted the Lowrance at first cause I liked the sound of the name better, haha, kinda dumb reason, but when I started to research them, I decided on humminbird. I personally chose the 898c because of it's capabilities. I would of liked to go to the 1000 series, but the screen is just to big for the inside of my sub. I believe euronaut also has a humminbird 898c as well. If you decide to go that route, be sure you get the right subcon connector. You have to remember the GPS module has to be ran outside the sub as well and must be epoxy filled. I can help you through all that if you need. I made alot of mistakes connecting data wires that could be easily avoided. 
>>Thanks, 
>>Scott Waters 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone  
>>hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Scott, 
>>Thanks' for the info, but I am going ahead with repairing my radio's.? I am also looking at buying a sonar now.? It's all your fault,lol.? I gotta have one, what would be your first choice?? I am looking at a Lorance HDS-7  
>>Hank 
>>On Friday, March 28, 2014 6:41:05 PM, Brian Cox <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:
>>  
>>Seems like it would be nice to have one of those 70 watt units for the sub ! 
>>
>>Brian
>>
>>--- swaters at waters-ks.com wrote:
>>
>>From: <swaters at waters-ks.com>
>>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio's
>>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:50:53 -0700
>>
>>  
>>
>>Hank, 
>>There is currently a surface station and a aqua comm which is what I used in my sub for sale for $1500 for the two ($750 each).?Most psubs members that have underwater comms have OTS so his would be compatible. Here is a link?about the hummin bird 898 and it shows how to read the images you would see. I will post images after I test. it will be fun to see how they compare.  
>>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


   

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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 23:12:39 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mailing DWGs
Message-ID: <1396235559.59159.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
how do I email a drawing done in rhino.
Is there a particular file format I should save in?
Thanks, Alan
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From josephperkel at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 31 01:48:44 2014
From: josephperkel at yahoo.com (Joe Perkel)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 22:48:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mailing DWGs
In-Reply-To: <1396235559.59159.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396235559.59159.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396244924.37968.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
?
You can either email the entire file (.3dm), or save any?given view using the "Save Screen to File" command and then save an image file (jpg, bmp, gif, pdf) etc.
?
Whenever you render a model, you will be presented with an option to also save that in the image format of your choice,?I believe the default is bitmap. I often further manipulate that result in other applications like?MS Paint or Photoshop, (an example being?the camo spots on my Seehund).
?
Then of course, standard file attach procedure.
?
Joe
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:14 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
  
Joe,
how do I email a drawing done in rhino.
Is there a particular file format I should save in?
Thanks, Alan
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 31 04:18:59 2014
From: alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com (Alan James)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 01:18:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mailing DWGs
In-Reply-To: <1396244924.37968.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1396235559.59159.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1396244924.37968.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1396253939.60095.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Joe,
"capture to file" in the window drop down menu gives me the option to save it as a Jpeg or tiff.
When I went "file"-"save" it wouldn't give me that option.
Alan?



________________________________
 From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mailing DWGs
 


Alan,
?
You can either email the entire file (.3dm), or save any?given view using the "Save Screen to File" command and then save an image file (jpg, bmp, gif, pdf) etc.
?
Whenever you render a model, you will be presented with an option to also save that in the image format of your choice,?I believe the default is bitmap. I often further manipulate that result in other applications like?MS Paint or Photoshop, (an example being?the camo spots on my Seehund).
?
Then of course, standard file attach procedure.
?
Joe
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:14 PM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Joe,
how do I email a drawing done in rhino.
Is there a particular file format I should save in?
Thanks, Alan
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Mar 31 16:09:31 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 13:09:31 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
Message-ID: <20140331130931.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c469902590.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Mar 31 16:31:33 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 13:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
In-Reply-To: <20140331130931.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c469902590.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140331130931.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c469902590.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1396297893.30276.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
You should not make the same mistake I made, 8 feet is not enough.? Go with at least 9 feet inside.? 
I use a 8,000lb warren winch with a single pully block and that is perfect.? I have to build a new gantry because I built mine with stuff I had instead of buying proper material.? I am building?A frames with 2in square 1/4 wall.? Then a 10in I beam across the top with a 10 foot span.
Hank
On Monday, March 31, 2014 2:09:55 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Hey guys, 

I am wanting to build a gantry lift in my shop so I can put my sub on the trailer and take it back off the trailer without having to pay to rent a telehandler. It would need to hold the sub (4500 lbs) plus a little extra. I was thinking of building it out of I beams. I know nothing about structural design with I beams but I believe it should be pretty easy. The gantry lift would be 9' tall and 8' wide. What size I beams should I use? 

Also what is the best kind of winch or block and tackle device to use that is inexpensive? 

Thanks for the help, 
Scott Waters
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From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Mar 31 16:43:19 2014
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 16:43:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
Message-ID: <4175.4bd606e0.406b2d67@aol.com>

Scott,
Try this link to see the specs and beam dimensions on a  9-foot wide 
gantry.  There are several other gantries on the site as  well.
Jim   
http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Portable-Gantry-Crane-7AJ30?s_pp=false
 
 
In a message dated 3/31/2014 3:32:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:

 
Scott,
You  should not make the same mistake I made, 8 feet is not enough.  Go 
with  at least 9 feet inside.  
I  use a 8,000lb warren winch with a single pully block and that is  
perfect.  I have to build a new gantry because I built mine with stuff I  had 
instead of buying proper material.  I am building A frames with  2in square 1/4 
wall.  Then a 10in I beam across the top with a 10 foot  span.
Hank
 
 
 
On Monday, March 31, 2014 2:09:55 PM,  "swaters at waters-ks.com" 
<swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:


 
 
Hey guys,
 
I am wanting to build a gantry lift in my shop so I can put my sub on the  
trailer and take it back off the trailer without having to pay to rent a  
telehandler. It would need to hold the sub (4500 lbs) plus a little extra. I  
was thinking of building it out of I beams. I know nothing about structural  
design with I beams but I believe it should be pretty easy. The gantry lift 
 would be 9' tall and 8' wide. What size I beams should I use?
 
Also what is the best kind of winch or block and tackle device to use  that 
is inexpensive?
 
Thanks for the help,
Scott  Waters



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles









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From JimToddPsub at aol.com  Mon Mar 31 17:01:26 2014
From: JimToddPsub at aol.com (JimToddPsub at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
Message-ID: <4ee6.dece2ab.406b31a5@aol.com>

Scott, found this in a Dallas suburb.  Probably cheaper  than you can build 
one.  -Jim
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/4368076511.html
 
 
In a message dated 3/31/2014 3:43:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
JimToddPsub at aol.com writes:

Scott,
Try this link to see the specs and beam dimensions on a  9-foot wide 
gantry.  There are several other gantries on the site as  well.
Jim   
http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Portable-Gantry-Crane-7AJ30?s_pp=false
 
 
In a message dated 3/31/2014 3:32:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:

 
Scott,
You  should not make the same mistake I made, 8 feet is not enough.  Go 
with  at least 9 feet inside.  
I  use a 8,000lb warren winch with a single pully block and that is  
perfect.  I have to build a new gantry because I built mine with stuff  I had 
instead of buying proper material.  I am building A frames  with 2in square 1/4 
wall.  Then a 10in I beam across the top with a 10  foot span.
Hank
 
 
 
On Monday, March 31, 2014 2:09:55 PM,  "swaters at waters-ks.com" 
<swaters at waters-ks.com>  wrote:


 
 
Hey guys,
 
I am wanting to build a gantry lift in my shop so I can put my sub on  the 
trailer and take it back off the trailer without having to pay to rent a  
telehandler. It would need to hold the sub (4500 lbs) plus a little extra. I  
was thinking of building it out of I beams. I know nothing about structural  
design with I beams but I believe it should be pretty easy. The gantry lift 
 would be 9' tall and 8' wide. What size I beams should I use?
 
Also what is the best kind of winch or block and tackle device to use  that 
is inexpensive?
 
Thanks for the help,
Scott  Waters



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles









_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




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From jimrudholm at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 17:58:13 2014
From: jimrudholm at gmail.com (Jim Rudholm)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 14:58:13 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
In-Reply-To: <20140331130931.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c469902590.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140331130931.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c469902590.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CAAusovTWVsPOKnNE53heWpUn9_TdTBVxiYVxMzWHU_JeenoeQg@mail.gmail.com>

The book, "Design of Weldments" by Blodgett is available directly from the
James F. Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation, $15.00. Used from bookfinder.com,
$16.45 including shipping.
JimR


On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:09 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I am wanting to build a gantry lift in my shop so I can put my sub on the
> trailer and take it back off the trailer without having to pay to rent a
> telehandler. It would need to hold the sub (4500 lbs) plus a little extra.
> I was thinking of building it out of I beams. I know nothing about
> structural design with I beams but I believe it should be pretty easy. The
> gantry lift would be 9' tall and 8' wide. What size I beams should I use?
>
> Also what is the best kind of winch or block and tackle device to use that
> is inexpensive?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Mar 31 18:03:52 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:03:52 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
Message-ID: <20140331150352.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.8ac7a12e18.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Mar 31 18:36:06 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters at waters-ks.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:36:06 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
Message-ID: <20140331153606.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f076351729.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca  Mon Mar 31 19:15:25 2014
From: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca (hank pronk)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 16:15:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
In-Reply-To: <20140331153606.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f076351729.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140331153606.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f076351729.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1396307725.23002.YahooMailNeo@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
There are many options, I go be experience?because I am not an engineer. ? You are best to get the info from an engineer or copy one that is rated.? The gantry in Texas is a bargain, it will cost you that in material and time.
Hank
On Monday, March 31, 2014 4:36:26 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
  
Hank, 
Is there different sizes of I beams? When I called?the steal place they asked me what is the weight per foot?  

Jim,  
I contacted the that is selling the lifts from Texas. That might just work better.  

Thanks, 
Scott Waters? 

-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
>From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>Date: Mon, March 31, 2014 1:31 pm
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>Scott, 
>You should not make the same mistake I made, 8 feet is not enough.? Go with at least 9 feet inside.?  
>I use a 8,000lb warren winch with a single pully block and that is perfect.? I have to build a new gantry because I built mine with stuff I had instead of buying proper material.? I am building?A frames with 2in square 1/4 wall.? Then a 10in I beam across the top with a 10 foot span. 
>Hank 
>On Monday, March 31, 2014 2:09:55 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
> 
>Hey guys, 
>
>I am wanting to build a gantry lift in my shop so I can put my sub on the trailer and take it back off the trailer without having to pay to rent a telehandler. It would need to hold the sub (4500 lbs) plus a little extra. I was thinking of building it out of I beams. I know nothing about structural design with I beams but I believe it should be pretty easy. The gantry lift would be 9' tall and 8' wide. What size I beams should I use? 
>
>Also what is the best kind of winch or block and tackle device to use that is inexpensive? 
>
>Thanks for the help, 
>Scott Waters
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From swaters at waters-ks.com  Mon Mar 31 19:40:47 2014
From: swaters at waters-ks.com (swaters)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:40:47 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
Message-ID: <d2dy7m9f8ry19ypa5le98njs.1396309229892@email.android.com>

Sounds good. I will see if I can get it.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:Scott,
There are many options, I go be experience?because I am not an engineer. ? You are best to get the info from an engineer or copy one that is rated.? The gantry in Texas is a bargain, it will cost you that in material and time.
Hank
On Monday, March 31, 2014 4:36:26 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Hank,
Is there different sizes of I beams? When I called?the steal place they asked me what is the weight per foot?
?
Jim,
I contacted the that is selling the lifts from Texas. That might just work better.
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gantry lift
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Date: Mon, March 31, 2014 1:31 pm
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
You should not make the same mistake I made, 8 feet is not enough.? Go with at least 9 feet inside.?
I use a 8,000lb warren winch with a single pully block and that is perfect.? I have to build a new gantry because I built mine with stuff I had instead of buying proper material.? I am building?A frames with 2in square 1/4 wall.? Then a 10in I beam across the top with a 10 foot span.
Hank
On Monday, March 31, 2014 2:09:55 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
Hey guys,
?
I am wanting to build a gantry lift in my shop so I can put my sub on the trailer and take it back off the trailer without having to pay to rent a telehandler. It would need to hold the sub (4500 lbs) plus a little extra. I was thinking of building it out of I beams. I know nothing about structural design with I beams but I believe it should be pretty easy. The gantry lift would be 9' tall and 8' wide. What size I beams should I use?
?
Also what is the best kind of winch or block and tackle device to use that is inexpensive?
?
Thanks for the help,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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