[PSUBS-MAILIST] venting batteries

Tue Mar 11 18:43:39 EDT 2014

Hank,

I hear you! Not having yet started cost issues have had my sub aspirations on a yo yo diet! Presently, we're in an anorexic phase.

As Jim echoes your comments, new technologies are presenting interesting options and exciting capabilities. Even the promise of a doubled capability presents a whole new game!

Joe

On Mar 11, 2014, at 6:11 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> Thanks' for the info,  I really have little choice but to go with wet batteries.  I am soooo over budget, plus I just dropped off my radio's to be over hauled.  I have been reduced to selling my steam engine collection.  :-(
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:01:49 PM, "JimToddPsub at aol.com" <JimToddPsub at aol.com> wrote:
> Hank,
>  
> Some types of lithium ion batteries presently available might be just as economical as AGMs, etc. when you consider the number of recharging cycles - cost twice as much, but last more than twice as long.  Several subs are presently operating with them.
>  
> Here's as good a place as any to start if you want to investigate those options.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery 
> I've pasted a key paragraph below.  When I last looked into it I was most in favor of LFP. 
>  
> Chemistry, performance, cost and safety characteristics vary across LIB types. Handheld electronics mostly use LIBs based on lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO
> 2), which offers high energy density, but presents safety risks, especially when damaged. Lithium iron phosphate (LFP), lithium manganese oxide (LMO) and lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) offer lower energy density, but longer lives and inherent safety. Such batteries are widely used for electric tools, medical equipment and other roles. NMC in particular is a leading contender for automotive applications. Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (NCA) and lithium titanate (LTO) are specialty designs aimed at particular niche roles.
>  
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 3/11/2014 4:39:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:
> Joe,
> It may be moot for you, you will be able to buy sulfur ion batteries.  I am just looking to save some money in hopes the new batteries are on the market next year.  If it is true about the sulfur batteries our range will increase by six times.
> Hank
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:27:57 PM, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> So the question in my mind then with regard to George's scheme for venting the pods as per plans,.. Is it adequate as is? 
> 
> My thoughts have always been to supplement that plan with ignition proof forced ventilation.
> 
> Joe
> 
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 5:06 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>    wrote:
> 
>> Vance,
>> The nice thing about hydrogen is how light it is, with my idea the hydrogen if leaked would simply drift to the hatch and out.  The floor is not air tight so the Hydrogen can escape if the vent system has a leak.  As with the original system, the battery vent system can be pressure tested prior to charging.  Just sayin
>> Hank
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:50:55 PM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>> Hank,
>> Any low cost hydrogen vent system will leak. I've seen perfectly tight systems tested with nitrogen that leak like sieves when charged with dive gas. And if you have a leaky system then you have no system. Even a little hydrogen can ruin your whole day.
>> Vance
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> Vance,
>>> I get that for sure, it just seems logical to vent the battery directly.  What am I missing here?  Why vent the Hydrogen into  a space then vent the space, makes no sense.
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:19:53        AM, Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>>> Hank,
>>> The vent system should be used for half an hour prior to charging to clear the keel, then throughout the charge and finally for another half to        one hour afterward. What the maintenance log does not say is that somebody forgot to turn on the LP supply air during a charge. It happened once on Delta, too. Bang! Her deck plates all have a slight upward bulge as a result. Oops.
>>> Vance
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:43 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Steve,
>>>> I am thinking interior of the hull.  Gamma has interior batteries sealed in a box.  There is an air system to purge the box after charging.  When I was reading the daily service reports, I read about an instance where the box had an explosion due to a faulty cable connection.  I was thinking of going one step further and drilling in vent tubes in the sealed caps to carry the hydrogen away.  I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, seems simple and effective. 
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:09:52 AM, Steve McQueen <psub101 at indy.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> Hank, in this scenario are the batteries interior to the hull or exterior in pods?
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:09 PM,          hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone have an opinion on drilling in vent tubes  to each battery, and seal off the original vent holes.   Run the vent tubes to a manifold and purg.  Keep the vent tubes going up hill all the way.
>>>> Hank
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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