From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  2 16:48:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 13:48:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
Message-ID: <1399063732.33848.YahooMailNeo@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating at the head.

For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small end???

I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I am?unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.

Joe
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  2 19:45:11 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 17:45:11 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399063732.33848.YahooMailNeo@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399063732.33848.YahooMailNeo@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d5ffd23-f387-45c9-afdb-17f804c1308c@email.android.com>

2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse. Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent to conical sections, provided all other requirements are met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head depth points if otherwise unbounded.  Cone to head welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds, and if your head is supplied with a flange, it is the same thing.

Sean


On May 2, 2014 2:48:52 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement
>and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat
>unclear however as to terminating at the head.
>
>For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and
>hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either
>bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small
>end???
>
>I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a
>small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I
>am?unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.
>
>Joe
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  2 20:03:21 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 17:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <5d5ffd23-f387-45c9-afdb-17f804c1308c@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sean,<br/><br/>Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone segments stepping down at different angles?<br/><br/>Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?<br/><br/>Very helpful Sean thank you!<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  2 21:47:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 19:47:49 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <026db88f-a97f-4140-9ed8-140922f17cd4@email.android.com>

Each cone section in that case is considered alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an assembly.

The rules do not address bolting pressure hull sections together, but I don't see why you couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring groove seal? Or other arrangement?  I think an ASME code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half of the flange considered individually met the requirements of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for the connection. 

http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/

Sean


On May 2, 2014 6:03:21 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Sean,<br/><br/>Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several
>cone segments stepping down at different angles?<br/><br/>Also, do ASME
>pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted pressure hull
>sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted cylindrical
>sections?<br/><br/>Very helpful Sean thank you!<br/><br/>Joe<a
>href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from
>Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May  3 08:16:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 05:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <026db88f-a97f-4140-9ed8-140922f17cd4@email.android.com>
References: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <026db88f-a97f-4140-9ed8-140922f17cd4@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1399119377.10745.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sean,

Yes, a bolted flange with O ring.

I've attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for handling.

I'm thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the joints.

Joe


On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Each cone section in that case is considered alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an assembly. 
The rules do not address bolting pressure hull sections together, but I don't see why you couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring groove seal? Or other arrangement?? I think an ASME code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half of the flange considered individually met the requirements of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for the connection.  
http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/ 
Sean
 


On May 2, 2014 6:03:21 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Sean,
>
>Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone segments stepping down at different angles?
>
>Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?
>
>Very helpful Sean thank you!
>
>Joe
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad  
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From:  Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
>To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
>Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition 
>Sent:  Fri, May 2, 2014 11:45:11 PM 
> 
>
>2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse. Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent to conical sections, provided all other requirements are met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head depth points if otherwise unbounded.? Cone to head welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds, and if your head is supplied w! ith a
flange, it is the same thing. 
>Sean
> 
>
>
>On May 2, 2014 2:48:52 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating at the head.
>>
>>
>>For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small end???
>>
>>
I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I am?unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.
>>
>>
>>Joe
>
>________________________________
>
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>     
>
>________________________________
>
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May  3 10:03:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 10:03:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399119377.10745.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <026db88f-a97f-4140-9ed8-140922f17cd4@email.android.com>
 <1399119377.10745.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D134EF9BF1C6E6-18E8-1392B@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>

Joe,


It seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and fair the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it, for instance.


Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition



Sean,


Yes, a bolted flange with O ring.


I've attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for handling.


I'm thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the joints.


Joe




 
 
 
  On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  

Each cone section in that case is considered alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an assembly.
The rules do not address bolting pressure hull sections together, but I don't see why you couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring groove seal? Or other arrangement?  I think an ASME code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half of the flange considered individually met the requirements of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for the connection. 
http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
Sean




On May 2, 2014 6:03:21 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


Sean,

Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone segments stepping down at different angles?

Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?

Very helpful Sean thank you!

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                            
                                                            To:                                                        Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Fri, May 2, 2014 11:45:11 PM                            
                        
                            
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        


2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse. Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent to conical sections, provided all other requirements are met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head depth points if otherwise unbounded.  Cone to head welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds, and if your head is supplied w! ith aflange, it is the same thing.
Sean




On May 2, 2014 2:48:52 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating at the head.


For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small end???


 I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I am unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.


Joe






Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


                    
                
            


Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



  
 
  
 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May  3 10:27:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2014 08:27:49 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <8D134EF9BF1C6E6-18E8-1392B@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <026db88f-a97f-4140-9ed8-140922f17cd4@email.android.com>
 <1399119377.10745.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D134EF9BF1C6E6-18E8-1392B@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <62bbfe95-89f9-46ff-8ab4-a891404b9516@email.android.com>

Or a single eccentric conical section?

Sean


On May 3, 2014 8:03:36 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Joe,
>
>
>It seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you get. Why
>not close the aft segment in a simpler way and fair the stern to the
>shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an extended shaft housing to put
>the prop where you want it, for instance.
>
>
>Vance
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
>
>
>
>Sean,
>
>
>Yes, a bolted flange with O ring.
>
>
>I've attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is 36" OD,
>cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger in diameter, simply gets way
>to big and bulky for handling.
>
>
>I'm thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull sections
>together for outfitting and maintenance, and the cones can be
>un-stiffened or perhaps only at the joints.
>
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> 
>On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via
>Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  
>
>Each cone section in that case is considered alone, so if you were
>using stiffeners, you would need a heavy stiffener at every joint.
>Depending on the size, it may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry
>for such an assembly.
>The rules do not address bolting pressure hull sections together, but I
>don't see why you couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms
>of the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading conditions,
>which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might require some FEA to be
>sure. You're thinking an O-ring groove seal? Or other arrangement?  I
>think an ASME code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but
>I would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half of the
>flange considered individually met the requirements of a heavy
>stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location (bolt hole). I would
>also be inclined to use SuperBolts for the connection. 
>http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
>Sean
>
>
>
>
>On May 2, 2014 6:03:21 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
>Sean,
>
>Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone segments
>stepping down at different angles?
>
>Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted
>pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted
>cylindrical sections?
>
>Very helpful Sean thank you!
>
>Joe
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
>            
>                
>                    
>                    
>                        
>                            
>From:                                                        Sean T.
>Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
>                          
>To:                                                        Personal
>Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;     
>                                                                       
>Subject:                                                        Re:
>[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition                       
>    
>Sent:                                                        Fri, May
>2, 2014 11:45:11 PM                            
>                        
>                            
>                                                                       
>
>
>2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually fabricated with some length of
>straight flange (tangential cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the
>ellipse. Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange
>section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent to conical
>sections, provided all other requirements are met. For stiffened cones,
>you must have stiffeners meeting the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both
>ends, as close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and cone-to-head
>transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length L_c used in overall
>buckling calculations must be the total length between the next heavy
>stiffener to either side of the entire compartment length, or between
>the 40% of head depth points if otherwise unbounded.  Cone to head
>welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds, and if
>your head is supplied w! ith aflange, it is the same thing.
>Sean
>
>
>
>
>On May 2, 2014 2:48:52 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
>I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement
>and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat
>unclear however as to terminating at the head.
>
>
>For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and
>hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either
>bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small
>end???
>
>
>I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a
>small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I am
>unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.
>
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>                    
>                
>            
>
>
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>  
> 
>  
> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> 
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May  3 10:50:28 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 10:50:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <62bbfe95-89f9-46ff-8ab4-a891404b9516@email.android.com>
References: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <026db88f-a97f-4140-9ed8-140922f17cd4@email.android.com>
 <1399119377.10745.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D134EF9BF1C6E6-18E8-1392B@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>
 <62bbfe95-89f9-46ff-8ab4-a891404b9516@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <8D134F6286ECB67-18E8-13CDB@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>

It worked very nicely that way for all us Perry kids.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 10:28 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition



Or a single eccentric conical section?
Sean




On May 3, 2014 8:03:36 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Joe,


It seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and fair the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it, for instance.


Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition



Sean,


Yes, a bolted flange with O ring.


I've attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for handling.


I'm thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the joints.


Joe




 
 
 
  On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  

Each cone section in that case is considered alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an assembly.
The rules do not address bolting pressure hull sections together, but I don't see why you couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring groove seal? Or other arrangement?  I think an ASME code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half of the flange considered individually met the requirements of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for the connection. 
http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
Sean




On May 2, 2014 6:03:21 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


Sean,

Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone segments stepping down at different angles?

Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?

Very helpful Sean thank you!

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                            
                                                            To:                                                        Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Fri, May 2, 2014 11:45:11 PM                            
                        
                            
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        


2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse. Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent to conical sections, provided all other requirements are met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head depth points if otherwise unbounded.  Cone to head welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds, and if your head is supplied w! ith aflange, it is the same thing.
Sean




On May 2, 2014 2:48:52 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating at the head.


For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small end???


 I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I am unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.


Joe






Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


                    
                
            




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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



  
 
  
 


_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May  3 12:26:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 12:26:33 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <8D134F6286ECB67-18E8-13CDB@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1399075401.54068.YahooMailIosMobile@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <026db88f-a97f-4140-9ed8-140922f17cd4@email.android.com>
 <1399119377.10745.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D134EF9BF1C6E6-18E8-1392B@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>
 <62bbfe95-89f9-46ff-8ab4-a891404b9516@email.android.com>
 <8D134F6286ECB67-18E8-13CDB@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <C67E56D7-A002-4965-83BC-C0EE04628913@yahoo.com>

I did it that way to ft the original drawing, which is tempting to stay true to form. However, I'm rapidly coming to the same conclusion for simplicity sake.

Thanks guys!

Joe


Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2014, at 10:50 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> It worked very nicely that way for all us Perry kids.
> Vance
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 10:28 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
> 
> Or a single eccentric conical section?
> Sean
> 
> 
> On May 3, 2014 8:03:36 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Joe,
>> 
>> It seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and fair the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it, for instance.
>> 
>> Vance
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
>> 
>> Sean,
>> 
>> Yes, a bolted flange with O ring.
>> 
>> I've attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for handling.
>> 
>> I'm thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the joints.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Each cone section in that case is considered alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an assembly.
>> The rules do not address bolting pressure hull sections together, but I don't see why you couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring groove seal? Or other arrangement?  I think an ASME code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half of the flange considered individually met the requirements of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for the connection.
>> http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
>> Sean
>> 
>> 
>> On May 2, 2014 6:03:21 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Sean,
>> 
>> Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone segments stepping down at different angles?
>> 
>> Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?
>> 
>> Very helpful Sean thank you!
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>> 
>> From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                            
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition 
>> Sent: Fri, May 2, 2014 11:45:11 PM 
>> 
>> 2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse. Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent to conical sections, provided all other requirements are met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head depth points if otherwise unbounded.  Cone to head welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds, and if your head is supplied w! ith a flange, it is the same thing.
>> Sean
>> 
>> 
>> On May 2, 2014 2:48:52 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating at the head.
>> 
>> For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small end???
>> 
>> I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I am unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> 
>> 
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> 
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> 
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 00:28:03 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 21:28:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <8D134EF9BF1C6E6-18E8-1392B@webmail-vm043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399177683.46564.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Vance,<br/><br/>Rethinking that aft assembly to make it all soft tanks aft of a hemi head ala Nekton.<br/>If I go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach to the head to allow for periodic access and maintenance?<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 00:31:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 21:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Raster to vector conversion
Message-ID: <1399177909.17031.YahooMailIosMobile@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I'm currently using WinTopo freeware but, the result is not as clean as I would like?<br/><br/>If anyone knows of an accurate converter, I would surely appreciate it!<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 01:34:30 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 22:34:30 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] root pass
Message-ID: <20140503223430.4466A87F@m0005297.ppops.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 08:32:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:32:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399177683.46564.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399177683.46564.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D135AC17586598-684-19346@webmail-va018.sysops.aol.com>

Joe,


Consider using an elliptical head back there, for starters. You aren't building for much depth here, so the K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses are cheaper, do the same job, and give you a touch more inside room. Then I would have a cone rolled with a short flange on the major diameter, maybe a couple of inches, to match the hull OD.


The Nekton cone-to-dome caused a pinch point that was always a hassle to clean and paint, and ultimately left some pitting in the pressure hull that had to be weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal would give you a little more room under there to sandblast and paint during assembly and later for overhauls. I would say for maintenance a couple of flush-mount, gasketed panels in the tank would serve you well. Don't make them too ornery to remove or you won't do it as often as you will wish you had.


I'm wondering now about my own boat and using tanks like that. Is there anyone in the group who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton tanks installed on a K-350? Assembly would be so simple that way. And it would tow better, which is always a good thing. The Nektons roll a bit, but are reasonably stable. A K with the pods should have plenty of weight down low. Hmm. Would it work? I'm thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion on that?


Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, May 4, 2014 12:28 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition




Vance,

Rethinking that aft assembly to make it all soft tanks aft of a hemi head ala Nekton.
If I go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach to the head to allow for periodic access and maintenance?

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                            
                                                            To:                                                         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Sat, May 3, 2014 2:03:36 PM                            
                        
                            
                            
                                
                                    
                                        
Joe,


It seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and fair the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it, for instance.


Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition



Sean,


Yes, a bolted flange with O ring.


I've attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for handling.


I'm thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the joints.


Joe




 
 
 
  On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  

Each cone section in that case is considered alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an assembly.
The rules do not address bolting pressure hull sections together, but I don't see why you couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring groove seal? Or other arrangement?  I think an ASME code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half of the flange considered individually met the requirements of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for the connection. 
http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
Sean




On May 2, 2014 6:03:21 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


Sean,

Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone segments stepping down at different angles?

Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?

Very helpful Sean thank you!

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                            
                                                            To:                                                        Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Fri, May 2, 2014 11:45:11 PM                            
                        
                            
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        


2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse. Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent to conical sections, provided all other requirements are met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head depth points if otherwise unbounded.  Cone to head welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds, and if your head is supplied w! ith aflange, it is the same thing.
Sean




On May 2, 2014 2:48:52 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


I have spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating at the head.


For example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open at the small end???


 I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another straight section, but I am unclear as to whether or not that is acceptable in practice.


Joe






Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


                    
                
            




Personal_Submersibles mailing list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org

http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



  
 
  
 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 


                                    
                                
                            
                    
                
            

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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 10:17:55 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 07:17:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <8D135AC17586598-684-19346@webmail-va018.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399213075.86643.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
When I mounted the tanks back on Gamma, I changed the mounting location to give a greater angle also I did what Vance is saying on a small scale.    I then poured a gallon of paint in  each tank and rolled the sub slowly to ensure there was complete paint coverage.  If I was operating in salt water I would mount some nipples to the tanks with plugs.  After a dive in salt water, remove the plug and you have access to spray fresh water inside and rinse the salt water out. A large panel is a good idea also because you
can open it up after each dive and let it dry out.   
If I had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks exactly.  I would change the shape so they have more volume at the top reducing the rolling effect. Also I would consider making them from SS. Also SS heads solves the problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss heads.  I once saw a ss tank exactly the same as a 500gal propane tank for 1,500 dollars on ebay.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32 AM
 
 Joe,
 
 
 
 
 Consider using an elliptical head back there, for
 starters. You aren't building for much depth here, so
 the K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses
 are cheaper, do the same job, and give you a touch more
 inside room.?Then I would have a cone rolled
 with a short flange on the major diameter, maybe a couple of
 inches, to match the hull OD.
 
 
 
 
 
 The Nekton cone-to-dome caused a
 pinch point that was always a hassle to clean and paint, and
 ultimately left some pitting in the pressure hull that had
 to be weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
 would give you a little more room under there to sandblast
 and paint during assembly and later for overhauls. I would
 say for maintenance a couple of flush-mount, gasketed panels
 in the tank would serve you well. Don't make them too
 ornery to remove or you won't do it as often as you will
 wish you had.
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm wondering now about my own
 boat and using tanks like that. Is there anyone in the group
 who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton tanks
 installed on a K-350? Assembly would be so simple that way.
 And it would tow better, which is always a good thing. The
 Nektons roll a bit, but are reasonably stable. A K with the
 pods should have plenty of weight down low. Hmm. Would it
 work? I'm thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion on
 that?
 
 
 
 
 
 Vance
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original
 Message-----
 
 From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 To: personal_submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 Sent: Sun, May 4, 2014 12:28 am
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
 transition
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Vance,
 
 
 
 Rethinking that aft assembly to make it all soft tanks aft
 of a hemi head ala Nekton.
 
 If I go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach
 to the head to allow for periodic access and maintenance?
 
 
 
 Joe
 
 
 
 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
           
 
                 
 
                     
 
 
                     
 
                         
 
                             
                             
                                 From:
                             
                             via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
                            
 
 
                             
                                 To:
                             
                              <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
                                                             
                                        
 
 
                             
                                 Subject:
                             
                             Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
 a conical transition                            
 
 
                             
                                 Sent:
                             
                             Sat, May 3, 2014 2:03:36 PM     
                       
 
 
                         
 
                             
 
 
                             
                                 
                                     
                                         Joe,
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 It
 seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you
 get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and fair
 the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
 extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it,
 for instance.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Vance
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original
 Message-----
 
 
 From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
 Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
 
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
 transition
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Sean,
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Yes,
 a bolted flange with O ring.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I've
 attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is
 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
 in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for
 handling.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm
 thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull
 sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the
 cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
 joints.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Joe
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
   On Friday, May
 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
   
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Each cone section in that case is considered
 alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a
 heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it
 may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an
 assembly.
 
 
 
 
 The rules do not address bolting pressure
 hull sections together, but I don't see why you
 couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of
 the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading
 conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might
 require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
 groove seal? Or other arrangement?? I think an ASME
 code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I
 would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half
 of the flange considered individually met the requirements
 of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location
 (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for
 the connection. 
 
 
 
 
 http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
 
 
 
 
 Sean
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On May 2, 2014 6:03:21
 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 Sean,
 
 
 
 
 
 Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone
 segments stepping down at different angles?
 
 
 
 
 
 Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally
 to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section
 somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?
 
 
 
 
 
 Very helpful Sean thank you!
 
 
 
 
 
 Joe
 
 
 
 
 
 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
           
 
 
                 
 
 
                     
 
 
 
                     
 
 
                         
 
 
                             
 
 
 
 
                             
                                 From:
                             
                             Sean T. Stevenson via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;     
                       
 
 
 
                             
                                 To:
                             
                             Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;     
                                                             
                                   
 
 
 
                             
                                 Subject:
                             
                             Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
 a conical transition                            
 
 
 
                             
                                 Sent:
                             
                             Fri, May 2, 2014 11:45:11 PM    
                        
 
 
 
                         
 
 
                             
 
 
 
                             
                                 
                                     
                                         
                                     
                                 
                             
 
 2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually
 fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential
 cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse.
 Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange
 section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent
 to conical sections, provided all other requirements are
 met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting
 the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as
 close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and
 cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length
 L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total
 length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of
 the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head
 depth points if otherwise unbounded.? Cone to head
 welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds,
 and if your
  head is supplied w!
  ith a
 flange, it is the same
  thing.
 
 
 
 
 Sean
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On May 2, 2014 2:48:52
 PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I have
 spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for
 re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder
 transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating
 at the head.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 For
 example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles
 and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions
 either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open
 at the small end???
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition
 directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another
 straight section, but I am?unclear as to whether or not
 that is acceptable
  in practice.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Joe
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
                     
 
 
                 
 
 
             
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
  
 
   
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                                     
                                 
                             
                     
 
                 
 
             
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 15:07:16 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 12:07:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399213075.86643.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D135AC17586598-684-19346@webmail-va018.sysops.aol.com>
 <1399213075.86643.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399230436.63372.YahooMailNeo@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I've incorporated some of the suggestions in the attached drawing. Still, I've got a lot to think about here but I am also excited about the possibilities and the potential outcome. This image should give some idea of what's on my mind. What you see is the water ballast arrangement on the original Seehund, and how my proposed pressure boundary fits into this scaled down version. The following is a list of concerns and or design considerations.

1) Clearly, I have no need to compensate for the loss of torpedoes

2) New pressure boundary provides for massive MBT volumes (Low pressure compressor to blow down volumes)

3) Torpedo battery pods may need to incorporate some free flooding spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps reduce battery capacity to a single pod in lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then completely free flood?both torpedoes completely??. (Boat will incorporate a gen-set)

4) Questionable reliability of external motor pod assembly.

5) Stability considerations

Thanks for the input gents, It really helps me to take a step back on occasion!

Joe



On Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Joe,
When I mounted the tanks back on Gamma, I changed the mounting location to give a greater angle also I did what Vance is saying on a small scale.? ? I then poured a gallon of paint in? each tank and rolled the sub slowly to ensure there was complete paint coverage.? If I was operating in salt water I would mount some nipples to the tanks with plugs.? After a dive in salt water, remove the plug and you have access to spray fresh water inside and rinse the salt water out. A large panel is a good idea also because you
can open it up after each dive and let it dry out.? 
If I had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks exactly.? I would change the shape so they have more volume at the top reducing the rolling effect. Also I would consider making them from SS. Also SS heads solves the problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss heads.? I once saw a ss tank exactly the same as a 500gal propane tank for 1,500 dollars on ebay.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32 AM

Joe,




Consider using an elliptical head back there, for
starters. You aren't building for much depth here, so
the K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses
are cheaper, do the same job, and give you a touch more
inside room.?Then I would have a cone rolled
with a short flange on the major diameter, maybe a couple of
inches, to match the hull OD.





The Nekton cone-to-dome caused a
pinch point that was always a hassle to clean and paint, and
ultimately left some pitting in the pressure hull that had
to be weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
would give you a little more room under there to sandblast
and paint during assembly and later for overhauls. I would
say for maintenance a couple of flush-mount, gasketed panels
in the tank would serve you well. Don't make them too
ornery to remove or you won't do it as often as you will
wish you had.





I'm wondering now about my own
boat and using tanks like that. Is there anyone in the group
who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton tanks
installed on a K-350? Assembly would be so simple that way.
And it would tow better, which is always a good thing. The
Nektons roll a bit, but are reasonably stable. A K with the
pods should have plenty of weight down low. Hmm. Would it
work? I'm thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion on
that?





Vance






-----Original
Message-----

From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

To: personal_submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Sent: Sun, May 4, 2014 12:28 am

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
transition








Vance,



Rethinking that aft assembly to make it all soft tanks aft
of a hemi head ala Nekton.

If I go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach
to the head to allow for periodic access and maintenance?



Joe



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  From:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  To:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Subject:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical transition? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Sent:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Sat, May 3, 2014 2:03:36 PM? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Joe,








It
seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you
get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and fair
the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it,
for instance.










Vance










-----Original
Message-----


From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>


To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>


Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am


Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
transition

















Sean,










Yes,
a bolted flange with O ring.










I've
attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is
36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for
handling.










I'm
thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull
sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the
cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
joints.










Joe

















? 

? 

? 

?  On Friday, May
2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:


? 

? 







Each cone section in that case is considered
alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a
heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it
may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an
assembly.




The rules do not address bolting pressure
hull sections together, but I don't see why you
couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms of
the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading
conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules. Might
require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
groove seal? Or other arrangement?? I think an ASME
code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but I
would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half
of the flange considered individually met the requirements
of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material location
(bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts for
the connection. 




http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/




Sean














On May 2, 2014 6:03:21
PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
Sean,





Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several cone
segments stepping down at different angles?





Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally
to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section
somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?





Very helpful Sean thank you!





Joe





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 



? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 




? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  From:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Sean T. Stevenson via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 



? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  To:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 



? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Subject:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical transition? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 



? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Sent:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Fri, May 2, 2014 11:45:11 PM? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 



? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 



? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually
fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential
cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse.
Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange
section, but in either case are permissible to use adjacent
to conical sections, provided all other requirements are
met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting
the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as
close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and
cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the length
L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the total
length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of
the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head
depth points if otherwise unbounded.? Cone to head
welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder welds,
and if your
? head is supplied w!
? ith a
flange, it is the same
? thing.




Sean










On May 2, 2014 2:48:52
PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:










I have
spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for
re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder
transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to terminating
at the head.








For
example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles
and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical transitions
either bordered by a cylinder at either end, or simply open
at the small end???








? I want to terminate the small end of a conical transition
directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another
straight section, but I am?unclear as to whether or not
that is acceptable
? in practice.








Joe
















Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 


? ? ? ? ? ? 








Personal_Submersibles mailing list


Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org


http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles











_______________________________________________


Personal_Submersibles mailing list


Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org


http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles










? 

? 

? 


? 












_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



? 














? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ? 








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


? 






-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 16:32:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 13:32:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399230436.63372.YahooMailNeo@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399235520.75648.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
Your dive tanks are to low, they should be at the top of the sub.  The way you have it will be less stable.
The motor pod should be okay, just like the K subs. You do not want your torpedo's to be buoyant, they should be as heavy as possible for stability.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM
 
 I've incorporated
 some of the suggestions in the attached drawing. Still,
 I've got a lot to think about here but I am also excited
 about the possibilities and the potential outcome. This
 image should give some idea of what's on my mind.
 What you see is the water ballast arrangement
 on the original Seehund, and how my proposed pressure
 boundary fits into this scaled down version. The following
 is a list of concerns and or design
 considerations.
 1)
 Clearly, I have no need to compensate for the loss of
 torpedoes
 2)
 New pressure boundary provides for massive MBT volumes
 (Low pressure compressor to blow down
 volumes)
 3)
 Torpedo battery pods may need to incorporate some free
 flooding spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps reduce battery capacity to a single pod in
 lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then
 completely free flood?both torpedoes completely??.
 (Boat will incorporate a gen-set)
 4) Questionable
 reliability of external motor pod assembly.
 5)
 Stability considerations
 Thanks for the input
 gents, It really helps me to take a step back on
 occasion!
 Joe
 
 
      On Sunday, May 4,
 2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
     Joe,
 When I mounted the tanks back on Gamma, I changed the
 mounting location to give a greater angle also I did what
 Vance is saying on a small scale.? ? I then poured
 a gallon of paint in?
  each tank and rolled the sub slowly to ensure there was
 complete paint coverage.? If I was operating in salt
 water I would mount some nipples to the tanks with
 plugs.? After a dive in salt water, remove the plug and
 you have access to spray fresh water inside and rinse the
 salt water out. A large panel is a good idea also because
 you
 can open it up after each dive and let it dry out.?  
 If I had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks
 exactly.? I would change the shape so they have more
 volume at the top reducing the rolling effect. Also I would
 consider making them from SS. Also SS heads solves the
 problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss heads.? I
 once saw a ss tank exactly the same as a 500gal propane tank
 for 1,500 dollars on ebay.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
 transition
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32 AM
  
  Joe,
  
  
  
  
  Consider using an elliptical head back there, for
  starters. You aren't building for much depth here, so
  the K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses
  are cheaper, do the same job, and give you a touch more
  inside room.?Then I would have a cone rolled
  with a short flange on the major diameter, maybe a couple
 of
  inches, to match the hull OD.
  
  
  
  
  
  The Nekton cone-to-dome caused a
  pinch point that was always a hassle to clean and paint,
 and
  ultimately left some pitting in the pressure hull that had
  to
  be weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
  would give you a little more room under there to sandblast
  and paint during assembly and later for overhauls. I would
  say for maintenance a couple of flush-mount, gasketed
 panels
  in the tank would serve you well. Don't make them too
  ornery to remove or you won't do it as often as you
 will
  wish you had.
  
  
  
  
  
  I'm wondering now about my own
  boat and using tanks like that. Is there anyone in the
 group
  who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton tanks
  installed on a K-350? Assembly would be so simple that
 way.
  And it would tow better, which is always a good thing. The
  Nektons roll a bit, but are reasonably stable. A K with
 the
  pods should have plenty of weight down low. Hmm. Would it
  work? I'm thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion
 on
  that?
  
  
  
  
  
  Vance
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
  -----Original
  Message-----
  
  From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  To: personal_submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  Sent: Sun, May 4, 2014 12:28 am
  
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
  transition
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Vance,
  
  
  
  Rethinking that aft assembly to make it all soft tanks aft
  of a hemi head ala Nekton.
  
  If I go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach
  to the head to allow for periodic access and maintenance?
  
  
  
  Joe
  
  
  
  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
 ? ? ? ? ?  
  
 ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ?  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
  
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 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 From:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 To:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? 
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 Subject:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
  a conical transition? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? 
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ?  Sent:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  Sat, May 3, 2014
 2:03:36 PM? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
 ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ?  Joe,
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  It
  seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you
  get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and
 fair
  the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
  extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it,
  for instance.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Vance
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -----Original
  Message-----
  
  
  From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  
  Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
  
  
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
  transition
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Sean,
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Yes,
  a bolted flange with O ring.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  I've
  attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is
  36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
  in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for
  handling.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  I'm
  thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull
  sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the
  cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
  joints.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Joe
  
  
  
  
  
 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 ? 
  
 ? 
  
 ? 
  
 ?  On Friday, May
  2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via
 Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
  
 ?  
  
 ?  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Each cone section in that case is considered
  alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a
  heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it
  may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an
  assembly.
  
  
  
  
  The rules do not address bolting pressure
  hull sections together, but I don't see why you
  couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms
 of
  the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading
  conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules.
  Might
  require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
  groove seal? Or other arrangement?? I think an ASME
  code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but
 I
  would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half
  of the flange considered individually met the requirements
  of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material
 location
  (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts
 for
  the connection. 
  
  
  
  
  http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
  
  
  
  
  Sean
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  On May 2, 2014 6:03:21
  PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
  wrote:
  Sean,
  
  
  
  
  
  Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several
 cone
  segments stepping down at different angles?
  
  
  
  
  
  Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally
  to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section
  somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?
  
  
  
  
  
  Very helpful Sean thank you!
  
  
  
  
  
  Joe
  
  
  
  
  
  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
 ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?  
  
  
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 ?
  ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 From:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  Sean T. Stevenson
 via
  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
 ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ?  
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ?  To:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  Personal
 Submersibles General
  Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
 ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ?  
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ?  Subject:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
  a conical transition? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? 
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 Sent:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  Fri, May 2, 2014
 11:45:11 PM? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually
  fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential
  cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse.
  Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange
  section, but in either case are permissible to use
 adjacent
  to conical sections, provided all other requirements are
  met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting
  the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as
  close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and
  cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the
 length
  L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the
 total
  length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of
  the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head
  depth points if otherwise
  unbounded.? Cone to head
  welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder
 welds,
  and if your
 ? head is supplied w!
 ? ith a
  flange, it is the same
 ? thing.
  
  
  
  
  Sean
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  On May 2, 2014 2:48:52
  PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  I have
  spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for
  re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder
  transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to
 terminating
  at the head.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  For
  example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles
  and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical
 transitions
  either bordered by a
  cylinder at either end, or simply open
  at the small end???
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 ? I want to terminate the small end of a conical
 transition
  directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another
  straight section, but I am?unclear as to whether or
 not
  that is acceptable
 ? in practice.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Joe
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
 
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  
  
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
  
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  
  
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  
  
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
  
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
  
  
 ?  
  
 ? 
  
 ?  
  
  
 ? 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  
 ? 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ?  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
 ? 
  
  
  
  
  
  
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 16:50:08 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 14:50:08 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399230436.63372.YahooMailNeo@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <8D135AC17586598-684-19346@webmail-va018.sysops.aol.com>
 <1399213075.86643.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1399230436.63372.YahooMailNeo@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5366A800.6050705@telus.net>

Joe - a couple of things:

1)  Free-flooding compartments still contribute to the vessel's overall
inertia and consequential power requirement.  Whether you are moving
usable internal space, or an oddly shaped slug of seawater, the
effective density of the volume is the same when submerged.  The only
difference would be the crane weight out of the water when the
free-flooding spaces have drained.  Thus, it behooves the designer to
maximize the useful internal volume of the pressure boundary, or to
minimize the total displacement volume of the vessel for a given
pressure boundary volume.  In other words, you want to eliminate
free-flooding volume where you can, and looking at your design, I see
the opportunity to add conical sections to each end of the cylinder, and
then use smaller hemispherical heads at the end of each cone (thus
creating a high volume pressure boundary with more usable internal
space), or alternatively, shortening the length of the superstructure /
fairing assembly to minimize the overall displacement and unnecessary
free-flooding volume.  The latter solution would, of course, minimize
the total displacement and dead weight of the completed vessel.

2)  Dive tank # 1 and #2 : I presume that these are your main ballast
tanks for dive vs. surface operation?  I would give a little more
thought to stability here.  It seems more advantageous to have your
ballast tank volumes above the vessel CG wherever possible.  In the
surfaced condition, the hull form works the same way as a boat hull in
providing increased righting moment with angle of roll (provided the
hull isn't cylindrical).  Completely submerged, you have only the
difference between your center of buoyancy and center of mass to offer
righting moment.  The transition between surfaced condition (MBTs blown)
and submerged condition (MBTs full) can be dangerous as your metacentric
height can be eliminated before the CB/CG righting moment is established
on submersion.  Ideally, your CB would be above your CG regardless of
operating condition, in which case your vessel is always stable, and the
hull form buoyancy only acts to stiffen the vessel in the surfaced
condition.

Sean


On 2014-05-04 13:07, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> I've incorporated some of the suggestions in the attached drawing.
> Still, I've got a lot to think about here but I am also excited about
> the possibilities and the potential outcome. This image should give
> some idea of what's on my mind. What you see is the water ballast
> arrangement on the original Seehund, and how my proposed pressure
> boundary fits into this scaled down version. The following is a list
> of concerns and or design considerations.
>
> 1) Clearly, I have no need to compensate for the loss of torpedoes
>
> 2) New pressure boundary provides for massive MBT volumes (/Low
> pressure compressor to blow down volumes/)
>
> 3) Torpedo battery pods may need to incorporate some free flooding
> spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps reduce battery capacity to a
> single pod in lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then
> completely free flood both torpedoes completely??. (/Boat will
> incorporate a gen-set/)
>
> 4) Questionable reliability of external motor pod assembly.
>
> 5) Stability considerations
>
> Thanks for the input gents, It really helps me to take a step back on
> occasion!
>
> Joe
>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 16:54:37 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 13:54:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399235520.75648.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399230436.63372.YahooMailNeo@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1399235520.75648.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399236877.22112.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,

What you see there is the original Seehund arrangement, my intention is as you say, up higher. The aft cone on mine essentially now an MBT. Those lower volumes will be flooded in practice, but I am wondering if they could be blown down dry to help with trailer launching and recovery??

Plenty, and I mean plenty of room along the centerline for keel ballast.

I keep thinking about what you've told me regarding Gammas attachment, always in the back of my mind!

Thanks Hank!

Joe
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Joe,
Your dive tanks are to low, they should be at the top of the sub.? The way you have it will be less stable.
The motor pod should be okay, just like the K subs. You do not want your torpedo's to be buoyant, they should be as heavy as possible for stability.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM

I've incorporated
some of the suggestions in the attached drawing. Still,
I've got a lot to think about here but I am also excited
about the possibilities and the potential outcome. This
image should give some idea of what's on my mind.
What you see is the water ballast arrangement
on the original Seehund, and how my proposed pressure
boundary fits into this scaled down version. The following
is a list of concerns and or design
considerations.
1)
Clearly, I have no need to compensate for the loss of
torpedoes
2)
New pressure boundary provides for massive MBT volumes
(Low pressure compressor to blow down
volumes)
3)
Torpedo battery pods may need to incorporate some free
flooding spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps reduce battery capacity to a single pod in
lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then
completely free flood?both torpedoes completely??.
(Boat will incorporate a gen-set)
4) Questionable
reliability of external motor pod assembly.
5)
Stability considerations
Thanks for the input
gents, It really helps me to take a step back on
occasion!
Joe


? ? ? On Sunday, May 4,
2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? ?  Joe,
When I mounted the tanks back on Gamma, I changed the
mounting location to give a greater angle also I did what
Vance is saying on a small scale.? ? I then poured
a gallon of paint in?
? each tank and rolled the sub slowly to ensure there was
complete paint coverage.? If I was operating in salt
water I would mount some nipples to the tanks with
plugs.? After a dive in salt water, remove the plug and
you have access to spray fresh water inside and rinse the
salt water out. A large panel is a good idea also because
you
can open it up after each dive and let it dry out.?? 
If I had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks
exactly.? I would change the shape so they have more
volume at the top reducing the rolling effect. Also I would
consider making them from SS. Also SS heads solves the
problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss heads.? I
once saw a ss tank exactly the same as a 500gal propane tank
for 1,500 dollars on ebay.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
transition
? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
? Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32 AM
? 
? Joe,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Consider using an elliptical head back there, for
? starters. You aren't building for much depth here, so
? the K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses
? are cheaper, do the same job, and give you a touch more
? inside room.?Then I would have a cone rolled
? with a short flange on the major diameter, maybe a couple
of
? inches, to match the hull OD.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? The Nekton cone-to-dome caused a
? pinch point that was always a hassle to clean and paint,
and
? ultimately left some pitting in the pressure hull that had
? to
? be weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
? would give you a little more room under there to sandblast
? and paint during assembly and later for overhauls. I would
? say for maintenance a couple of flush-mount, gasketed
panels
? in the tank would serve you well. Don't make them too
? ornery to remove or you won't do it as often as you
will
? wish you had.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I'm wondering now about my own
? boat and using tanks like that. Is there anyone in the
group
? who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton tanks
? installed on a K-350? Assembly would be so simple that
way.
? And it would tow better, which is always a good thing. The
? Nektons roll a bit, but are reasonably stable. A K with
the
? pods should have plenty of weight down low. Hmm. Would it
? work? I'm thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion
on
? that?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Vance
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 

? -----Original
? Message-----
? 
? From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? To: personal_submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? Sent: Sun, May 4, 2014 12:28 am
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
? transition
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Vance,
? 
? 
? 
? Rethinking that aft assembly to make it all soft tanks aft
? of a hemi head ala Nekton.
? 
? If I go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach
? to the head to allow for periodic access and maintenance?
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
From:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
To:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
Subject:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
? a conical transition? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Sent:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Sat, May 3, 2014
2:03:36 PM? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?? Joe,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? It
? seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you
? get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and
fair
? the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
? extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it,
? for instance.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Vance
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Original
? Message-----
? 
? 
? From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
? 
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
? transition
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sean,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Yes,
? a bolted flange with O ring.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I've
? attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is
? 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
? in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for
? handling.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I'm
? thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull
? sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the
? cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
? joints.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 

? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?? On Friday, May
? 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via
Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? 
?? 
? 
?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Each cone section in that case is considered
? alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a
? heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it
? may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an
? assembly.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? The rules do not address bolting pressure
? hull sections together, but I don't see why you
? couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms
of
? the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading
? conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules.
? Might
? require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
? groove seal? Or other arrangement?? I think an ASME
? code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but
I
? would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half
? of the flange considered individually met the requirements
? of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material
location
? (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts
for
? the connection. 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sean
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On May 2, 2014 6:03:21
? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

? wrote:
? Sean,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several
cone
? segments stepping down at different angles?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally
? to bolted pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section
? somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Very helpful Sean thank you!
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
From:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Sean T. Stevenson
via
? Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? To:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Personal
Submersibles General
? Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?? Subject:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
? a conical transition? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
Sent:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Fri, May 2, 2014
11:45:11 PM? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually
? fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential
? cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse.
? Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange
? section, but in either case are permissible to use
adjacent
? to conical sections, provided all other requirements are
? met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting
? the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as
? close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and
? cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the
length
? L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the
total
? length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of
? the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head
? depth points if otherwise
? unbounded.? Cone to head
? welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder
welds,
? and if your
? head is supplied w!
? ith a
? flange, it is the same
? thing.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sean
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On May 2, 2014 2:48:52
? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I have
? spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for
? re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder
? transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to
terminating
? at the head.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? For
? example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles
? and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical
transitions
? either bordered by a
? cylinder at either end, or simply open
? at the small end???
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I want to terminate the small end of a conical
transition
? directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another
? straight section, but I am?unclear as to whether or
not
? that is acceptable
? in practice.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 

? 
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? 
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? 
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 

? 
? 
?? 
? 
? 
? 
?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

? ? ? 
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 17:30:19 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 14:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399236877.22112.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399230436.63372.YahooMailNeo@web141501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1399235520.75648.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1399236877.22112.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399239019.97236.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Sean,

Have you ever notice how the Civil War design of the USS Alligator stabilized the boat submerged? A couple of crazy little?tethered?floats, but the rationale has never escaped me.

I will reduce free flood space wherever?I can. Trapped inertia being on my mind, but I needed someone to remind me of?the waste in efficiency / power requirements, thanks! Also, your comments bring home?some compelling reasons to shorten the design?with a "Just enough but no more" design mindset.

I've given thought to the conical section in the front, I can reduce this down to a 30" head with forward viewing ala Kraka, but quite the tight fit! Not sure, I have to give it some more thought.

If I reduce the aft end with a cone, then I would bring the motor inside and do?a standard marine hybrid installation. Expensive, but certainly a more reliable answer. If I do that, I would dispense with the notion of propulsion units in the aft end of the?pods, truly no need then. This?boat requires?a? massive ventilation / climate control scheme for surface operations, that's why I've been overly generous with the machinery space in these early drafts.

I'm still concerned about stability because I have to contend with what to do with all of that centerline space. The VBT would take up some, but I would have to flood the rest.

Thanks again Sean!

Joe
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:56 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Hank,

What you see there is the original Seehund arrangement, my intention is as you say, up higher. The aft cone on mine essentially now an MBT. Those lower volumes will be flooded in practice, but I am wondering if they could be blown down dry to help with trailer launching and recovery??

Plenty, and I mean plenty of room along the centerline for keel ballast.

I keep thinking about what you've told me regarding Gammas attachment, always in the back of my mind!

Thanks Hank!

Joe
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Joe,
Your dive tanks are to low, they should be at the top of the sub.? The way you have it will be less stable.
The motor pod should be okay, just like the K subs. You do not want your torpedo's to be buoyant, they should be as heavy as possible for stability.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM

I've incorporated
some of the suggestions in the attached drawing. Still,
I've got a lot to think about here but I am also excited
about the possibilities and the potential outcome. This
image should give some idea of what's on my mind.
What you see is the water ballast arrangement
on the original Seehund, and how my proposed pressure
boundary fits into this scaled down version. The following
is a list of concerns and or design
considerations.
1)
Clearly, I have no need to compensate for the loss of
torpedoes
2)
New pressure boundary provides for massive MBT volumes
(Low pressure compressor to blow down
volumes)
3)
Torpedo battery pods may need to incorporate some free
flooding spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps reduce battery capacity to a single pod in
lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then
completely free flood?both torpedoes completely??.
(Boat will incorporate a gen-set)
4) Questionable
reliability of external motor pod assembly.
5)
Stability considerations
Thanks for the input
gents, It really helps me to take a step back on
occasion!
Joe


? ? ? On Sunday, May 4,
2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? ?  Joe,
When I mounted the tanks back on
 Gamma, I changed the
mounting location to give a greater angle also I did what
Vance is saying on a small scale.? ? I then poured
a gallon of paint in?
? each tank and rolled the sub slowly to ensure there was
complete paint coverage.? If I was operating in salt
water I would mount some nipples to the tanks with
plugs.? After a dive in salt water, remove the plug and
you have access to spray fresh water inside and rinse the
salt water out. A large panel is a good idea also because
you
can open it up after each dive and let it dry out.?? 
If I had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks
exactly.? I would change the shape so they have more
volume at the top reducing the rolling effect. Also I would
consider making them from SS. Also SS heads solves the
problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss heads.? I
once saw a ss tank exactly the
 same as a 500gal propane tank
for 1,500 dollars on ebay.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
transition
? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
? Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32 AM
? 
? Joe,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Consider using an elliptical head back there, for
? starters. You aren't building for much depth here, so
? the K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses
? are cheaper, do the same job, and give you a touch more
? inside room.?Then I would have
 a cone rolled
? with a short flange on the major diameter, maybe a couple
of
? inches, to match the hull OD.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? The Nekton cone-to-dome caused a
? pinch point that was always a hassle to clean and paint,
and
? ultimately left some pitting in the pressure hull that had
? to
? be weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
? would give you a little more room under there to sandblast
? and paint during assembly and later for overhauls. I would
? say for maintenance a couple of flush-mount, gasketed
panels
? in the tank would serve you well. Don't make them too
? ornery to remove or you won't do it as often as you
will
? wish you had.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I'm wondering now about my own
? boat and using tanks like that. Is there
 anyone in the
group
? who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton tanks
? installed on a K-350? Assembly would be so simple that
way.
? And it would tow better, which is always a good thing. The
? Nektons roll a bit, but are reasonably stable. A K with
the
? pods should have plenty of weight down low. Hmm. Would it
? work? I'm thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion
on
? that?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Vance
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 

? -----Original
? Message-----
? 
? From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? To: personal_submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? Sent: Sun, May 4, 2014 12:28 am
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
? transition
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Vance,
? 
? 
? 
? Rethinking that aft assembly to make it all soft tanks aft
? of a hemi head ala Nekton.
? 
? If I go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach
? to the head to allow for periodic access and maintenance?
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
From:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
To:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
Subject:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
? a conical transition? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? 
? 
? 
? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Sent:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Sat, May 3, 2014
2:03:36 PM? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
 ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?? Joe,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? It
? seems like an expensive and complex assembly for what you
? get. Why not close the aft segment in a simpler way and
fair
? the stern to the shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
? extended shaft housing to put the prop where you want it,
? for instance.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Vance
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Original
? Message-----
? 
? 
? From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
? 
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
? transition
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sean,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Yes,
? a bolted flange with O ring.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I've
? attached an image of what's on my mind. This hull is
? 36" OD, cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
? in diameter, simply gets way to big and bulky for
? handling.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I'm
? thinking at this size, I must bolt at least two hull
? sections together for outfitting and maintenance, and the
? cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
? joints.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 

? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?? On Friday, May
? 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via
Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? 
?? 
? 
?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Each cone section in that case is considered
? alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a
? heavy stiffener at every joint. Depending on the size, it
? may be simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an
?
 assembly.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? The rules do not address bolting pressure
? hull sections together, but I don't see why you
? couldn't, provided you meet the requirements in terms
of
? the stress analysis under the maximum combined loading
? conditions, which are prescribed in the ABS rules.
? Might
? require some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
? groove seal? Or other arrangement?? I think an ASME
? code compliant flange would be a good place to start, but
I
? would make sure that the cross-sectional area of each half
? of the flange considered individually met the requirements
? of a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material
location
? (bolt hole). I would also be inclined to use SuperBolts
for
? the connection. 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sean
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On May 2, 2014 6:03:21
? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

? wrote:
? Sean,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Would the heavy stiffener rule apply equally to several
cone
? segments stepping down at different angles?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Also, do ASME pipe flange specifications translate equally
? to bolted
 pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section
? somewhere on bolted cylindrical sections?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Very helpful Sean thank you!
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
? ? ? ?
 ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
From:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Sean T. Stevenson
via
? Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
 ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? To:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Personal
Submersibles General
? Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ?
?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?? Subject:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
? a conical transition? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? 
Sent:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? Fri, May 2, 2014
11:45:11 PM? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 2:1 semi-elliptical heads are usually
? fabricated with some length of straight flange (tangential
? cylindrical section) beyond the axis of the ellipse.
? Hemispherical heads may or may not have a straight flange
? section, but in either case are
 permissible to use
adjacent
? to conical sections, provided all other requirements are
? met. For stiffened cones, you must have stiffeners meeting
? the "heavy stiffener" criteria at both ends, as
? close as practicable to the cone-to-cylinder and
? cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the
length
? L_c used in overall buckling calculations must be the
total
? length between the next heavy stiffener to either side of
? the entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head
? depth points if otherwise
? unbounded.? Cone to head
? welds are done in the same manner as cone to cylinder
welds,
? and if your
? head is supplied w!
? ith a
? flange, it is the same
? thing.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sean
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On May 2, 2014 2:48:52
? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I have
? spotted the ABS diagrams and specifications for
? re-enforcement and butt welds at conical to cylinder
? transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to
terminating
? at the head.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? For
? example, the diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles
? and hyperbaric chamber publication shows conical
transitions
? either bordered by a
? cylinder at either end, or simply
 open
? at the small end???
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I want to terminate the small end of a conical
transition
? directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another
? straight section, but I am?unclear as to whether or
not
? that is acceptable
? in practice.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 

? 
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? 
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
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? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? 
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? 
? 
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? 

? 
? 
?? 
? 
? 
? 
?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
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? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
 ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 17:43:19 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399239019.97236.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399239799.15281.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Joe,
Sounds like you need to have the longest cones possible at each end to reduce the size of the free flooded areas.  Another option is to change the design, decide what your priorities are.  What is most important? if long transits are the plan then you may need to change things.  If fuel cost is a consideration, another change.  Looking very cool dock side, you nailed it. It just wouldn't be fun if it was easy.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 5:30 PM
 
 Sean,
 Have
 you ever notice how the Civil War design of the USS
 Alligator stabilized the boat submerged? A couple of crazy
 little?tethered?floats, but the rationale has
 never escaped me.
 I
 will reduce free flood space wherever?I can. Trapped
 inertia being on my mind, but I needed someone to remind me
 of?the waste in efficiency / power requirements,
 thanks! Also, your comments bring home?some compelling
 reasons to shorten the design?with a "Just
 enough but no more" design
 mindset.
 I've
 given thought to the conical section in the front, I can
 reduce this down to a 30" head with forward viewing ala
 Kraka, but quite the tight fit! Not sure, I have to give it
 some more thought.
 If
 I reduce the aft end with a cone, then I would bring the
 motor inside and do?a standard marine hybrid
 installation. Expensive, but certainly a more reliable
 answer. If I do that, I would dispense with the notion of
 propulsion units in the aft end of the?pods, truly no
  need then. This?boat requires?a? massive
 ventilation / climate control scheme for surface operations,
 that's why I've been overly generous with the
 machinery space in these early drafts.
 I'm
 still concerned about stability because I have to contend
 with what to do with all of that centerline space. The VBT
 would take up some, but I would have to flood the
 rest.
 Thanks
 again Sean!
 Joe
     On Sunday, May 4,
 2014 4:56 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
     Hank,
 What
 you see there is the
  original Seehund arrangement, my intention is as you say,
 up higher. The aft cone on mine essentially now an MBT.
 Those lower volumes will be flooded in practice, but I am
 wondering if they could be blown down dry to help with
 trailer launching and recovery??
 Plenty,
 and I mean plenty of room along the centerline for keel
 ballast.
 I
 keep thinking about what you've told me regarding Gammas
 attachment, always in the back of my
  mind!
 Thanks
 Hank!
 Joe
     On Sunday, May 4,
 2014 4:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
     Joe,
 Your dive tanks are to low, they should be at
 the top of the sub.? The way you have it will be less
 stable.
 The motor pod should be okay, just
 like the K subs. You do not want your torpedo's to be
 buoyant, they should be as heavy as possible for
 stability.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On
  Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
  To: "Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM
  
  I've incorporated
  some of the suggestions in the attached
 drawing. Still,
  I've got a lot to think
 about here but I am also excited
  about the
 possibilities and the potential outcome. This
  image should give some idea of
  what's on my mind.
  What you see is the
 water ballast arrangement
  on the original
 Seehund, and how my proposed pressure
 
 boundary fits into this scaled down version. The
 following
  is a list of concerns and or
 design
  considerations.
 
 1)
  Clearly, I have no need to compensate
 for the loss of
 
  torpedoes
  2)
  New pressure
 boundary provides for massive MBT volumes
 
 (Low pressure compressor to blow down
 
 volumes)
  3)
  Torpedo
 battery pods may need to incorporate some free
  flooding spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps
 reduce battery capacity to a single pod in
 
 lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then
  completely free flood?both torpedoes
 completely??.
  (Boat will incorporate a
 gen-set)
  4) Questionable
 
 reliability of external motor pod assembly.
 
 5)
  Stability considerations
  Thanks for the input
  gents,
 It really helps me to take a step back on
 
 occasion!
  Joe
  
  
 ? ? ? On
 Sunday,
  May 4,
  2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 ? ?  Joe,
 
 When I mounted the tanks back on
  Gamma, I changed the
  mounting location to
 give a greater angle also I did what
  Vance
 is saying on a small scale.? ? I then poured
  a gallon of paint in?
 ? each tank and rolled the sub slowly to
 ensure there was
  complete paint
 coverage.? If I was operating in salt
 
 water I would mount some nipples to the tanks with
  plugs.? After a dive in salt water,
 remove the plug and
  you have access to
 spray fresh water inside and rinse the
  salt
 water out. A large panel is a good idea also because
  you
  can open it up after each
 dive and let it dry out.?? 
  If I
 had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks
  exactly.? I would change the shape so
 they have more
  volume at the top reducing
 the
  rolling effect. Also I would
  consider
 making them from SS. Also SS heads solves the
  problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss
 heads.? I
  once saw a ss tank exactly
 the
  same as a 500gal propane tank
  for 1,500
 dollars on ebay.
  Hank
 
 --------------------------------------------
  On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 ? 
 ?
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
  transition
 ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 ? Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32
 AM
 ? 
 ? Joe,
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Consider using an elliptical head back
 there, for
 ? starters. You aren't
 building for much depth here, so
 ? the
 K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses
 ? are cheaper, do the same job, and give
 you a touch more
 ? inside
 room.?Then I would have
  a cone rolled
 ? with a short flange on
 the major diameter, maybe a couple
  of
 ? inches, to match the hull OD.
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? The Nekton
 cone-to-dome caused a
 ? pinch point
 that was always a hassle to clean and paint,
  and
 ? ultimately left
 some pitting in the pressure hull that had
 ? to
 ? be
 weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
 ? would give you a little more room under
 there to sandblast
 ? and paint during
 assembly and later for overhauls. I would
 ? say for maintenance a couple of
 flush-mount, gasketed
  panels
 ? in the tank would serve you well.
 Don't make them
  too
 ? ornery to remove or you
 won't do it as often as you
  will
 ? wish you had.
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? I'm wondering now about my own
 ? boat and using tanks like that. Is there
  anyone in the
  group
 ?
 who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton
 tanks
 ? installed on a K-350? Assembly
 would be so simple that
  way.
 ? And it would tow better, which is always
 a good thing. The
 ? Nektons roll a bit,
 but are reasonably stable. A K with
  the
 ? pods should have plenty of weight down
 low. Hmm. Would it
 ? work? I'm
 thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion
 
 on
 ? that?
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Vance
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  
 ? -----Original
 ? Message-----
 ? 
 ? From: Joe Perkel via
 Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
 ? To:
 personal_submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
 ? Sent: Sun, May
 4, 2014 12:28 am
 ? 
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
 a conical
 ? transition
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Vance,
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Rethinking that aft assembly to make it
 all soft tanks aft
 ? of a hemi head ala
 Nekton.
 ? 
 ? If I
 go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach
 ? to the head to allow for periodic access
 and maintenance?
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Joe
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
  ? ? ? ? ?? 
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ?
 ? ? ? ?
 ?? 
 ? 
 
 ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ?? 
 ? 
 ?
 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ?? 
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ?? 
 ? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ?? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ?? 
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? 
  From:
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ?
  ? ? ?? 
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ?? via
  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ?? 
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? 
  To:
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ?
 ?? 
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
 ?? 
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ? ? ? ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ?? 
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? 
  Subject:
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ?
 ?? 
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ?? Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
 ? a conical transition? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ??
 Sent:
  ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ?
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ?? 
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ?? Sat, May 3,
 2014
  2:03:36 PM? ?? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ??
 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ?
 ?? 
 ? 
 
  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ?
 ?? 
 ? 
 ?
 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
  ? ?? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ?? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ?
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ?? Joe,
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? It
 ? seems like an expensive and complex
 assembly for what you
 ? get. Why not
 close the aft segment in a simpler way and
  fair
 ? the stern to the
 shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
 ? extended shaft housing to put the prop
 where you want it,
 ? for instance.
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
  
 ? 
 ? Vance
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? -----Original
 ?
 Message-----
 ? 
 ?
 
 ? From: Joe Perkel via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
 ? 
 ? To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
 a conical
 ? transition
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
  
 ? 
 ? Sean,
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Yes,
 ? a bolted
 flange with O ring.
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? I've
 ? attached an image of what's on my
 mind. This hull is
 ? 36" OD,
 cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
 ? in diameter, simply gets way to big and
 bulky for
 ? handling.
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? I'm
 ? thinking at this size, I must bolt at
 least two hull
 ? sections together for
 outfitting and maintenance, and the
 ?
 cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
 ? joints.
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
  
 ? Joe
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? 
 ? 
  ? 
 ? 
  ? 
 ? 
  ?? On
 Friday, May
 ? 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T.
 Stevenson via
  Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
 ? 
  ?? 
 ? 
  ?? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Each cone
 section in that case is considered
 ?
 alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a
 ? heavy stiffener at every joint.
 Depending on the size, it
 ? may be
 simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an
 ?
  assembly.
 ? 
 ?
 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? The rules do not address bolting
 pressure
 ? hull sections together, but
 I don't see why you
 ? couldn't,
 provided you meet the requirements in terms
 
 of
 ? the stress analysis under the
 maximum combined loading
 ? conditions,
 which are prescribed in the ABS rules.
 ? Might
 ? require
 some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
 ? groove seal? Or other arrangement??
 I think an ASME
 ? code compliant flange
 would be a good place to start, but
  I
 ? would make sure that the cross-sectional
 area of each half
 ? of the flange
 considered individually met the requirements
 ? of
  a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material
  location
 ? (bolt hole). I
 would also be inclined to use SuperBolts
 
 for
 ? the connection. 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sean
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? On May 2, 2014
 6:03:21
 ? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
 ? wrote:
 ? Sean,
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Would the heavy stiffener rule apply
 equally to several
  cone
 ? segments stepping down at different
 angles?
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Also, do ASME
 pipe flange specifications translate equally
 ? to bolted
  pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section
 ? somewhere on bolted cylindrical
 sections?
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Very helpful
 Sean thank you!
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Joe
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
  ? ? ? ? ?? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ?? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ?? 
 ? 
 ?
 
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 ? ? 
  From:
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ?
 ?? 
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ?? Sean T. Stevenson
  via
 ?
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
  ?? 
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ? ? ?? 
 ? 
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 ? ? ? ? ?? To:
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ?? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ?? Personal
  Submersibles General
 ?
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
  ?? 
  ? ?
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 Subject:
  ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ?
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ?? 
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ?? Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
 ? a conical transition? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ?? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? 
  Sent:
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  ? ? ? ? ?
 ?? 
  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ? ?
 ? ? ? ?? Fri, May 2, 2014
  11:45:11 PM? ? 
 
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? 
 ? 
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  ?
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 ? ?? 
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  ? ? ? ?? 
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  ?
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  ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ?? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ? ? ? ? ?? 
 ? 
 ? 2:1
 semi-elliptical heads are usually
 ?
 fabricated with some
  length of straight flange (tangential
 ? cylindrical section) beyond the axis of
 the ellipse.
 ? Hemispherical heads may
 or may not have a straight flange
 ?
 section, but in either case are
  permissible to use
  adjacent
 ? to conical sections, provided all other
 requirements are
 ? met. For stiffened
 cones, you must have stiffeners meeting
 ? the "heavy stiffener" criteria
 at both ends, as
 ? close as practicable
 to the cone-to-cylinder and
 ?
 cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the
  length
 ? L_c used in
 overall buckling calculations must be the
 
 total
 ? length between the next heavy
 stiffener to either side of
 ? the
 entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head
 ? depth points if otherwise
 ? unbounded.? Cone to head
 ? welds are done in the same manner as
 cone to cylinder
  welds,
 ? and if your
 
  ? head is supplied w!
  ? ith a
 ? flange, it is the same
 
 ? thing.
 ? 
 ?
 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sean
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? On May 2, 2014 2:48:52
 ? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? I have
 ? spotted the ABS diagrams and
 specifications for
 ? re-enforcement and
 butt welds at conical to cylinder
 ?
 transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to
  terminating
 ?
  at the head.
 ? 
 ?
 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? For
 ? example, the
 diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles
 ? and hyperbaric chamber publication shows
 conical
  transitions
 ?
 either bordered by a
 ? cylinder at
 either end, or simply
  open
 ? at the small end???
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
  ? I want to terminate the small end of a
 conical
  transition
 ?
 directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another
 ? straight section, but I am?unclear
 as to whether or
  not
 ?
 that is acceptable
  ? in practice.
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Joe
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ?
  ?
 ?? 
 ? 
 ?
 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ??
  
 ? 
  
 ? 
  ? ? ?
 ? ? ?? 
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 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
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 ? 
 ?
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ?
 
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
 ? 
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
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 ? 
 ? 
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 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
  
 ?
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 ? 
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
 ? 
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? 
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 _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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 _______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 17:53:30 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 14:53:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <1399239799.15281.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399239019.97236.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1399239799.15281.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399240410.61790.YahooMailNeo@web141504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,

Most boats see about 100 hours use a year. I expect this to be no different. I want a neat little toy to play with in the garage on the occasions when my wife turns me loose! :)

This is why I want to section the hull,...and I just convinced myself to shorten the thing a bit!

Joe


On Sunday, May 4, 2014 5:45 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Joe,
Sounds like you need to have the longest cones possible at each end to reduce the size of the free flooded areas.? Another option is to change the design, decide what your priorities are.? What is most important? if long transits are the plan then you may need to change things.? If fuel cost is a consideration, another change.? Looking very cool dock side, you nailed it. It just wouldn't be fun if it was easy.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 5:30 PM

Sean,
Have
you ever notice how the Civil War design of the USS
Alligator stabilized the boat submerged? A couple of crazy
little?tethered?floats, but the rationale has
never escaped me.
I
will reduce free flood space wherever?I can. Trapped
inertia being on my mind, but I needed someone to remind me
of?the waste in efficiency / power requirements,
thanks! Also, your comments bring home?some compelling
reasons to shorten the design?with a "Just
enough but no more" design
mindset.
I've
given thought to the conical section in the front, I can
reduce this down to a 30" head with forward viewing ala
Kraka, but quite the tight fit! Not sure, I have to give it
some more thought.
If
I reduce the aft end with a cone, then I would bring the
motor inside and do?a standard marine hybrid
installation. Expensive, but certainly a more reliable
answer. If I do that, I would dispense with the notion of
propulsion units in the aft end of the?pods, truly no
? need then. This?boat requires?a? massive
ventilation / climate control scheme for surface operations,
that's why I've been overly generous with the
machinery space in these early drafts.
I'm
still concerned about stability because I have to contend
with what to do with all of that centerline space. The VBT
would take up some, but I would have to flood the
rest.
Thanks
again Sean!
Joe
? ?  On Sunday, May 4,
2014 4:56 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? ?  Hank,
What
you see there is the
? original Seehund arrangement, my intention is as you say,
up higher. The aft cone on mine essentially now an MBT.
Those lower volumes will be flooded in practice, but I am
wondering if they could be blown down dry to help with
trailer launching and recovery??
Plenty,
and I mean plenty of room along the centerline for keel
ballast.
I
keep thinking about what you've told me regarding Gammas
attachment, always in the back of my
? mind!
Thanks
Hank!
Joe
? ?  On Sunday, May 4,
2014 4:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? ?  Joe,
Your dive tanks are to low, they should be at
the top of the sub.? The way you have it will be less
stable.
The motor pod should be okay, just
like the K subs. You do not want your torpedo's to be
buoyant, they should be as heavy as possible for
stability.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On
? Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

? Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
? To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM
? 
? I've incorporated
? some of the suggestions in the attached
drawing. Still,
? I've got a lot to think
about here but I am also excited
? about the
possibilities and the potential outcome. This
? image should give some idea of
? what's on my mind.
? What you see is the
water ballast arrangement
? on the original
Seehund, and how my proposed pressure

boundary fits into this scaled down version. The
following
? is a list of concerns and or
design
? considerations.

1)
? Clearly, I have no need to compensate
for the loss of

? torpedoes
? 2)
? New pressure
boundary provides for massive MBT volumes

(Low pressure compressor to blow down

volumes)
? 3)
? Torpedo
battery pods may need to incorporate some free
? flooding spaces to reduce weight, or perhaps
reduce battery capacity to a single pod in

lieu of the former forward water ballast tank, then
? completely free flood?both torpedoes
completely??.
? (Boat will incorporate a
gen-set)
? 4) Questionable

reliability of external motor pod assembly.

5)
? Stability considerations
? Thanks for the input
? gents,
It really helps me to take a step back on

occasion!
? Joe
? 
? 
? ? ? On
Sunday,
? May 4,
? 2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
? ?? Joe,

When I mounted the tanks back on
? Gamma, I changed the
? mounting location to
give a greater angle also I did what
? Vance
is saying on a small scale.? ? I then poured
? a gallon of paint in?
? each tank and rolled the sub slowly to
ensure there was
? complete paint
coverage.? If I was operating in salt

water I would mount some nipples to the tanks with
? plugs.? After a dive in salt water,
remove the plug and
? you have access to
spray fresh water inside and rinse the
? salt
water out. A large panel is a good idea also because
? you
? can open it up after each
dive and let it dry out.?? 
? If I
had a K350, I would not copy the Nekton tanks
? exactly.? I would change the shape so
they have more
? volume at the top reducing
the
? rolling effect. Also I would
? consider
making them from SS. Also SS heads solves the
? problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss
heads.? I
? once saw a ss tank exactly
the
? same as a 500gal propane tank
? for 1,500
dollars on ebay.
? Hank

--------------------------------------------
? On Sun, 5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
? 
?
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
? transition
? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
? Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32
AM
? 
? Joe,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Consider using an elliptical head back
there, for
? starters. You aren't
building for much depth here, so
? the
K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The ellipses
? are cheaper, do the same job, and give
you a touch more
? inside
room.?Then I would have
? a cone rolled
? with a short flange on
the major diameter, maybe a couple
? of
? inches, to match the hull OD.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? The Nekton
cone-to-dome caused a
? pinch point
that was always a hassle to clean and paint,
? and
? ultimately left
some pitting in the pressure hull that had
? to
? be
weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
? would give you a little more room under
there to sandblast
? and paint during
assembly and later for overhauls. I would
? say for maintenance a couple of
flush-mount, gasketed
? panels
? in the tank would serve you well.
Don't make them
? too
? ornery to remove or you
won't do it as often as you
? will
? wish you had.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I'm wondering now about my own
? boat and using tanks like that. Is there
? anyone in the
? group
?
who can plug and chug a metacentric height on Nekton
tanks
? installed on a K-350? Assembly
would be so simple that
? way.
? And it would tow better, which is always
a good thing. The
? Nektons roll a bit,
but are reasonably stable. A K with
? the
? pods should have plenty of weight down
low. Hmm. Would it
? work? I'm
thinking yes. Anybody else have an opinion

on
? that?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Vance
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Original
? Message-----
? 
? From: Joe Perkel via
Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? To:
personal_submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? Sent: Sun, May
4, 2014 12:28 am
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical
? transition
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?
? 
? 
? 
? Vance,
? 
? 
? 
? Rethinking that aft assembly to make it
all soft tanks aft
? of a hemi head ala
Nekton.
? 
? If I
go weld-on to the head ala Nekton, how best to attach
? to the head to allow for periodic access
and maintenance?
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ?
?
? ? ? ?
?? 
? 

? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
?? 
? 
?

? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? 
? From:

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? ?? via
? Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? 
? To:
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
?? 
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?

? ?
? ? ? ?
?? 
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? 
? Subject:

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
?? 
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ?? Re:
? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
? a conical transition? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? 
? 
? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ??
Sent:
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? ?? Sat, May 3,
2014
? 2:03:36 PM? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ??

? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ?
?? 
? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
?? 
? 
?

? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ?
?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?

?? Joe,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? It
? seems like an expensive and complex
assembly for what you
? get. Why not
close the aft segment in a simpler way and
? fair
? the stern to the
shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
? extended shaft housing to put the prop
where you want it,
? for instance.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?
? 
? 
? Vance
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Original
?
Message-----
? 
?

? From: Joe Perkel via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? To: Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
? 
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical
? transition
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?
? 
? 
? Sean,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Yes,
? a bolted
flange with O ring.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I've
? attached an image of what's on my
mind. This hull is
? 36" OD,
cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
? in diameter, simply gets way to big and
bulky for
? handling.
? 
? 
?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I'm
? thinking at this size, I must bolt at
least two hull
? sections together for
outfitting and maintenance, and the
?
cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
? joints.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? 
? 
? ? 
? 
? ? 
? 
? ?? On
Friday, May
? 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T.
Stevenson via
? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? 
? ?? 
? 
? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Each cone
section in that case is considered
?
alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need a
? heavy stiffener at every joint.
Depending on the size, it
? may be
simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such an
?
? assembly.
? 
?

? 
? 
? The rules do not address bolting
pressure
? hull sections together, but
I don't see why you
? couldn't,
provided you meet the requirements in terms

of
? the stress analysis under the
maximum combined loading
? conditions,
which are prescribed in the ABS rules.
? Might
? require
some FEA to be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
? groove seal? Or other arrangement??
I think an ASME
? code compliant flange
would be a good place to start, but
? I
? would make sure that the cross-sectional
area of each half
? of the flange
considered individually met the requirements
? of
? a heavy stiffener per ABS, at a minimum material
? location
? (bolt hole). I
would also be inclined to use SuperBolts

for
? the connection. 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sean
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On May 2, 2014
6:03:21
? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? wrote:
? Sean,
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Would the heavy stiffener rule apply
equally to several
? cone
? segments stepping down at different
angles?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Also, do ASME
pipe flange specifications translate equally
? to bolted
? pressure hull sections? Have I missed a section
? somewhere on bolted cylindrical
sections?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Very helpful
Sean thank you!
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
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?? 
? 
?

? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ?
?? 
? 
?

? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ?
?
? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? 
? From:

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
?? 
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ?? Sean T. Stevenson
? via
?
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
? ?? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? To:
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? Personal
? Submersibles General
?
Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
? ?? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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? ?? 
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? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ??
Subject:
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? ?? Re:
? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
? a conical transition? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? 
? Sent:

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
?? 
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ?? Fri, May 2, 2014
? 11:45:11 PM? ? 

? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?

? ?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ?
?? 
? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ? ?
? ?? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 2:1
semi-elliptical heads are usually
?
fabricated with some
? length of straight flange (tangential
? cylindrical section) beyond the axis of
the ellipse.
? Hemispherical heads may
or may not have a straight flange
?
section, but in either case are
? permissible to use
? adjacent
? to conical sections, provided all other
requirements are
? met. For stiffened
cones, you must have stiffeners meeting
? the "heavy stiffener" criteria
at both ends, as
? close as practicable
to the cone-to-cylinder and
?
cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, the
? length
? L_c used in
overall buckling calculations must be the

total
? length between the next heavy
stiffener to either side of
? the
entire compartment length, or between the 40% of head
? depth points if otherwise
? unbounded.? Cone to head
? welds are done in the same manner as
cone to cylinder
? welds,
? and if your

? ? head is supplied w!
? ? ith a
? flange, it is the same

? thing.
? 
?

? 
? 
? Sean
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On May 2, 2014 2:48:52
? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I have
? spotted the ABS diagrams and
specifications for
? re-enforcement and
butt welds at conical to cylinder
?
transitions. I am somewhat unclear however as to
? terminating
?
? at the head.
? 
?

? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? For
? example, the
diagrams in the 2014 ABS underwater vehicles
? and hyperbaric chamber publication shows
conical
? transitions
?
either bordered by a
? cylinder at
either end, or simply
? open
? at the small end???
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? I want to terminate the small end of a
conical
? transition
?
directly to a small diameter hemi-head without another
? straight section, but I am?unclear
as to whether or
? not
?
that is acceptable
? ? in practice.
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Joe
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ?
? ?
?? 
? 
?

? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ??
? 
? 
? 
? 
? ? ? ?
? ? ?? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
?
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
?

? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? 
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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? 
? 
?
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? 
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? 
? 
? 
? 

? ?? 
? 

? 
? 

?? 
? 
?

? ? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
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?
_______________________________________________
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? 
? 
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? 
? 
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? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?? 
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? ? ? ? ? ?? 
? 
? 
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? 
? 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May  4 21:06:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 21:06:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
Message-ID: <81133.2466a7ab.40983e33@aol.com>

Joe,
 
Per ABS, the CB must be at least 2" above the CG when  submerged.  It must 
still be at least 1" above in the event the drop weight  is released.
 
When I was considering auxiliary saddle tanks I planned to  position them 
so the tops were even with the water line when all tanks were  blown.  My 
thinking was to gain the maximum freeboard available since any  portion of the 
tanks above the water line contributes nothing to buoyancy.   However Alec 
very correctly pointed out that the portion above the water line  functions 
as reserve buoyancy to counteract roll when that side of the boat is  
depressed such as when someone steps on that tank.
 
The CG/CB spreadsheet that Cliff developed is on the Psubs  website.  It's 
an excellent design tool.  If you aren't already using  it:  
Psubs/org>Resources & Reference>Design  Tools.  "Ballast & Buoyancy Control" is on the menu 
at  the left side.  Once you open the spreadsheet, choose the tab at the 
bottom  labeled "Instructions."
 
Best regards,
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/4/2014 4:54:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

 
Hank,


Most  boats see about 100 hours use a year. I expect this to be no 
different. I want  a neat little toy to play with in the garage on the occasions 
when my wife  turns me loose! :)


This  is why I want to section the hull,...and I just convinced myself to 
shorten  the thing a bit!


Joe





 
 
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 5:45 PM, hank  pronk via Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:

Joe,
Sounds like you need to have the longest  cones possible at each end to 
reduce the size of the free flooded areas.   Another option is to change the 
design, decide what your priorities are.   What is most important? if long 
transits are the plan then you may need to  change things.  If fuel cost is a 
consideration, another change.   Looking very cool dock side, you nailed it. 
It just wouldn't be fun if it was  easy.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun,  5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >  wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical  transition
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
Received:  Sunday, May 4, 2014, 5:30 PM

Sean,
Have
you ever notice how the  Civil War design of the USS
Alligator stabilized the boat submerged? A  couple of crazy
little tethered floats, but the rationale  has
never escaped me.
I
will reduce free flood space wherever I  can. Trapped
inertia being on my mind, but I needed someone to remind  me
of the waste in efficiency / power requirements,
thanks! Also,  your comments bring home some compelling
reasons to shorten the  design with a "Just
enough but no more"  design
mindset.
I've
given thought to the conical section in the  front, I can
reduce this down to a 30" head with forward viewing  ala
Kraka, but quite the tight fit! Not sure, I have to give it
some  more thought.
If
I reduce the aft end with a cone, then I would bring  the
motor inside and do a standard marine hybrid
installation.  Expensive, but certainly a more reliable
answer. If I do that, I would  dispense with the notion of
propulsion units in the aft end of  the pods, truly no
need then. This boat  requires a  massive
ventilation / climate control scheme for  surface operations,
that's why I've been overly generous with  the
machinery space in these early drafts.
I'm
still concerned about  stability because I have to contend
with what to do with all of that  centerline space. The VBT
would take up some, but I would have to flood  the
rest.
Thanks
again Sean!
Joe
On Sunday, May  4,
2014 4:56 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>  wrote:
Hank,
What
you see there is the
original Seehund arrangement, my intention is as you say,
up higher. The  aft cone on mine essentially now an MBT.
Those lower volumes will be  flooded in practice, but I am
wondering if they could be blown down dry to  help with
trailer launching and recovery??
Plenty,
and I mean plenty  of room along the centerline for keel
ballast.
I
keep thinking about  what you've told me regarding Gammas
attachment, always in the back of  my
mind!
Thanks
Hank!
Joe
On Sunday, May  4,
2014 4:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>  wrote:
Joe,
Your dive tanks are to low, they should be  at
the top of the sub.  The way you have it will be  less
stable.
The motor pod should be okay, just
like the K subs. You  do not want your torpedo's to be
buoyant, they should be as heavy as  possible  for
stability.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On
Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
wrote:

Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
To:  "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion" <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM

I've  incorporated
some of the suggestions in the attached
drawing.  Still,
I've got a lot to think
about here but I am also  excited
about the
possibilities and the potential outcome.  This
image should give some idea of
what's on my  mind.
What you see is the
water ballast arrangement
on  the original
Seehund, and how my proposed pressure

boundary fits  into this scaled down version. The
following
is a list of  concerns and or
design
considerations.

1)
Clearly, I have no need to compensate
for the loss of

torpedoes
2)
New pressure
boundary provides for massive  MBT volumes

(Low pressure compressor to blow  down

volumes)
3)
Torpedo
battery pods may need  to incorporate some free
flooding spaces to reduce weight, or  perhaps
reduce battery capacity to a single pod in

lieu of the  former forward water ballast tank, then
completely free  flood both torpedoes
completely??.
(Boat will incorporate  a
gen-set)
4) Questionable

reliability of external motor  pod assembly.

5)
Stability considerations
Thanks  for the input
gents,
It really helps me to take a step back  on

occasion!
Joe


On
Sunday,
May 4,
2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk  via
Personal_Submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>
wrote:
Joe,

When I mounted the tanks back on
Gamma, I  changed the
mounting location to
give a greater angle also I did  what
Vance
is saying on a small scale.    I then  poured
a gallon of paint in 
each tank and rolled the  sub slowly to
ensure there was
complete paint
coverage.   If I was operating in salt

water I would mount some nipples to the  tanks with
plugs.  After a dive in salt water,
remove the  plug and
you have access to
spray fresh water inside and rinse  the
salt
water out. A large panel is a good idea also  because
you
can open it up after each
dive and let it  dry out.   
If I
had a K350, I would not copy the  Nekton tanks
exactly.  I would change the shape so
they have  more
volume at the top reducing
the
rolling effect.  Also I would
consider
making them from SS. Also SS heads solves  the
problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss
heads.   I
once saw a ss tank exactly
the
same as a 500gal  propane tank
for 1,500
dollars on ebay.
Hank

--------------------------------------------
On Sun,  5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>
wrote:


Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
transition
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32
AM

Joe,




Consider using an elliptical head  back
there, for
starters. You aren't
building for much depth  here, so
the
K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The  ellipses
are cheaper, do the same job, and give
you a touch  more
inside
room. Then I would have
a cone  rolled
with a short flange on
the major diameter, maybe a  couple
of
inches, to match the hull OD.





The  Nekton
cone-to-dome caused a
pinch point
that was always a  hassle to clean and paint,
and
ultimately left
some  pitting in the pressure hull that had
to
be
weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
would give  you a little more room under
there to sandblast
and paint  during
assembly and later for overhauls. I would
say for  maintenance a couple of
flush-mount, gasketed
panels
in  the tank would serve you well.
Don't make them
too
ornery to remove or you
won't do it as often as you
will
wish you had.





I'm wondering now about my own
boat and using  tanks like that. Is there
anyone in the
group

who can plug and chug a metacentric height on  Nekton
tanks
installed on a K-350? Assembly
would be so simple  that
way.
And it would tow better, which is always
a  good thing. The
Nektons roll a bit,
but are reasonably stable. A  K with
the
pods should have plenty of weight down
low.  Hmm. Would it
work? I'm
thinking yes. Anybody else have an  opinion

on
that?





Vance







-----Original
Message-----

From: Joe Perkel  via
Personal_Submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>

To:
personal_submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>

Sent: Sun, May
4, 2014 12:28 am

Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical
transition









Vance,



Rethinking that aft assembly to make it
all soft tanks aft
of a  hemi head ala
Nekton.

If I
go weld-on to the head  ala Nekton, how best to attach
to the head to allow for periodic  access
and maintenance?



Joe



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad  




































From:







via
Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >;














To:







<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>;


























Subject:







Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST]  Terminating
a conical transition     














Sent:







Sat, May 3,
2014
2:03:36 PM      






































Joe,








It
seems like  an expensive and complex
assembly for what you
get. Why  not
close the aft segment in a simpler way and
fair
the  stern to the
shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
extended  shaft housing to put the prop
where you want it,
for  instance.











Vance










-----Original

Message-----



From: Joe Perkel via
Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >


To: Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >


Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am


Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical
transition


















Sean,










Yes,
a  bolted
flange with O ring.










I've
attached an image of what's on my
mind. This hull  is
36" OD,
cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
in  diameter, simply gets way to big and
bulky for
handling.











I'm
thinking at this size, I must bolt at
least two  hull
sections together for
outfitting and maintenance, and  the

cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
joints.











Joe
























On
Friday, May
2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T.
Stevenson  via
Personal_Submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>
wrote:












Each cone
section in that case is  considered

alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need  a
heavy stiffener at every joint.
Depending on the size,  it
may be
simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such  an

assembly.





The rules do not address bolting
pressure
hull  sections together, but
I don't see why you
couldn't,
provided  you meet the requirements in terms

of
the stress analysis  under the
maximum combined loading
conditions,
which are  prescribed in the ABS rules.
Might
require
some FEA to  be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
groove seal? Or other  arrangement? 
I think an ASME
code compliant flange
would  be a good place to start, but
I
would make sure that the  cross-sectional
area of each half
of the flange
considered  individually met the requirements
of
a heavy stiffener per  ABS, at a minimum material
location
(bolt hole).  I
would also be inclined to use SuperBolts

for
the  connection. 




http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/




Sean














On May 2,  2014
6:03:21
PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
Personal_Submersibles  <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >

wrote:
Sean,





Would the heavy stiffener rule apply
equally to  several
cone
segments stepping down at  different
angles?





Also, do ASME
pipe flange specifications translate  equally
to bolted
pressure hull sections? Have I missed a  section
somewhere on bolted cylindrical
sections?





Very helpful
Sean  thank you!





Joe





Sent from  Yahoo Mail for iPad 














































From:







Sean T. Stevenson
via

Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >; 
















To:







Personal
Submersibles General

Discussion <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >; 



























Subject:







Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
a conical transition   
















Sent:







Fri, May 2, 2014
11:45:11 PM    























































2:1
semi-elliptical heads are  usually

fabricated with some
length of straight flange  (tangential
cylindrical section) beyond the axis of
the  ellipse.
Hemispherical heads may
or may not have a straight  flange

section, but in either case are
permissible to  use
adjacent
to conical sections, provided all  other
requirements are
met. For stiffened
cones, you must have  stiffeners meeting
the "heavy stiffener" criteria
at both ends,  as
close as practicable
to the cone-to-cylinder  and

cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones,  the
length
L_c used in
overall buckling calculations  must be the

total
length between the next heavy
stiffener  to either side of
the
entire compartment length, or between the  40% of head
depth points if otherwise
unbounded.   Cone to head
welds are done in the same manner as
cone to  cylinder
welds,
and if your

head is  supplied w!
ith a
flange, it is the  same

thing.





Sean











On  May 2, 2014 2:48:52
PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
Personal_Submersibles  <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
wrote:










I have
spotted the ABS diagrams and
specifications for
re-enforcement  and
butt welds at conical to cylinder

transitions. I am  somewhat unclear however as to
terminating

at  the head.









For
example, the
diagrams in the  2014 ABS underwater vehicles
and hyperbaric chamber publication  shows
conical
transitions

either bordered by  a
cylinder at
either end, or simply
open
at  the small end???








I want to terminate the  small end of a
conical
transition

directly to a  small diameter hemi-head without another
straight section, but I  am unclear
as to whether or
not

that is  acceptable
in practice.








Joe
















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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 05:22:09 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 05:22:09 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] root pass
In-Reply-To: <20140503223430.4466A87F@m0005297.ppops.net>
References: <20140503223430.4466A87F@m0005297.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <CAAeCABtmjPsDtUkZF0ejr_B1s7xYZyhDGEf5jpi+6ANyLYD5MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Brian,
7010 is a good choice  if you choose to do a smaw (stick ) root pass . I
would refrain from using 6010 because of its lower tensile strength
especially if  you are welding 516 gr 70. Have you considered TIG welding
your root passes ? 70s filler wire would be best in that case.
Dan Lance
On May 4, 2014 1:35 AM, "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I was wondering if anybody would know if there would be any significant
> difference in using 8010 rod as apposed to 6010 rod for the root pass when
> welding an end cap.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 07:22:56 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 04:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
In-Reply-To: <81133.2466a7ab.40983e33@aol.com>
References: <81133.2466a7ab.40983e33@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399288976.51067.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Jim,

I had not seen that particular spreadsheet, thank you!

I do have the advantage of software that will accurately calculate weights and balances based on materials and position within the model. But, I have to get the broad strokes done first to do some fine tweaking later. In the past, all this was done on paper and then trial and error in practice.

Joe
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 9:09 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Joe, 
? 
Per ABS, the CB must be at least 2" above the CG when 
submerged.? It must still be at least 1" above in the event the drop weight 
is released. 
? 
When I was considering auxiliary saddle tanks I planned to 
position them so the tops were even with the water line when all tanks were 
blown.? My thinking was to gain the maximum freeboard available since any 
portion of the tanks above the water line contributes nothing to buoyancy.? 
However Alec very correctly pointed out that the portion above the water line 
functions as reserve buoyancy to counteract roll when that side of the boat is 
depressed such as when someone steps on that tank. 
? 
The CG/CB spreadsheet that Cliff developed is on the Psubs 
website.? It's an excellent design tool.? If you aren't already using 
it:??Psubs/org>Resources & Reference>Design 
Tools.??"Ballast?& Buoyancy Control" is on the menu at 
the left side.? Once you open the spreadsheet, choose the tab at the bottom 
labeled "Instructions." 
? 
Best regards, 
Jim 

In a message dated 5/4/2014 4:54:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: 
Hank, 
>
> 
>Most  boats see about 100 hours use a year. I expect this to be no different. I want  a neat little toy to play with in the garage on the occasions when my wife  turns me loose! :) 
>
> 
>This  is why I want to section the hull,...and I just convinced myself to shorten  the thing a bit! 
>
> 
>Joe 
>
> 
>
> 
>On Sunday, May 4, 2014 5:45 PM, hank  pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:
> 
>Joe,
>Sounds like you need to have the longest 
  cones possible at each end to reduce the size of the free flooded areas.? 
  Another option is to change the design, decide what your priorities are.? 
  What is most important? if long transits are the plan then you may need to 
  change things.? If fuel cost is a consideration, another change.? 
  Looking very cool dock side, you nailed it. It just wouldn't be fun if it was 
  easy.
>Hank
>--------------------------------------------
>On Sun, 
  5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical 
  transition
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Received: 
  Sunday, May 4, 2014, 5:30 PM
>
>Sean,
>Have
>you ever notice how the 
  Civil War design of the USS
>Alligator stabilized the boat submerged? A 
  couple of crazy
>little?tethered?floats, but the rationale 
  has
>never escaped me.
>I
>will reduce free flood space wherever?I 
  can. Trapped
>inertia being on my mind, but I needed someone to remind 
  me
>of?the waste in efficiency / power requirements,
>thanks! Also, 
  your comments bring home?some compelling
>reasons to shorten the 
  design?with a "Just
>enough but no more" 
  design
>mindset.
>I've
>given thought to the conical section in the 
  front, I can
>reduce this down to a 30" head with forward viewing 
  ala
>Kraka, but quite the tight fit! Not sure, I have to give it
>some 
  more thought.
>If
>I reduce the aft end with a cone, then I would bring 
  the
>motor inside and do?a standard marine hybrid
>installation. 
  Expensive, but certainly a more reliable
>answer. If I do that, I would 
  dispense with the notion of
>propulsion units in the aft end of 
  the?pods, truly no
>? need then. This?boat 
  requires?a? massive
>ventilation / climate control scheme for 
  surface operations,
>that's why I've been overly generous with 
  the
>machinery space in these early drafts.
>I'm
>still concerned about 
  stability because I have to contend
>with what to do with all of that 
  centerline space. The VBT
>would take up some, but I would have to flood 
  the
>rest.
>Thanks
>again Sean!
>Joe
>? ? On Sunday, May 
  4,
>2014 4:56 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:
>? ? Hank,
>What
>you see there is the
>? 
  original Seehund arrangement, my intention is as you say,
>up higher. The 
  aft cone on mine essentially now an MBT.
>Those lower volumes will be 
  flooded in practice, but I am
>wondering if they could be blown down dry to 
  help with
>trailer launching and recovery??
>Plenty,
>and I mean plenty 
  of room along the centerline for keel
>ballast.
>I
>keep thinking about 
  what you've told me regarding Gammas
>attachment, always in the back of 
  my
>? mind!
>Thanks
>Hank!
>Joe
>? ? On Sunday, May 
  4,
>2014 4:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:
>? ? Joe,
>Your dive tanks are to low, they should be 
  at
>the top of the sub.? The way you have it will be 
  less
>stable.
>The motor pod should be okay, just
>like the K subs. You 
  do not want your torpedo's to be
>buoyant, they should be as heavy as 
  possible 
  for
>stability.
>Hank
>--------------------------------------------
>On
>? 
  Sun, 5/4/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>
>? 
  Subject: Re:
>[PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical transition
>? To: 
  "Personal Submersibles General
>Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
  Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:07 PM
>? 
>? I've 
  incorporated
>? some of the suggestions in the attached
>drawing. 
  Still,
>? I've got a lot to think
>about here but I am also 
  excited
>? about the
>possibilities and the potential outcome. 
  This
>? image should give some idea of
>? what's on my 
  mind.
>? What you see is the
>water ballast arrangement
>? on 
  the original
>Seehund, and how my proposed pressure
>
>boundary fits 
  into this scaled down version. The
>following
>? is a list of 
  concerns and or
>design
>? considerations.
>
>1)
>? 
  Clearly, I have no need to compensate
>for the loss of
>
>? 
  torpedoes
>? 2)
>? New pressure
>boundary provides for massive 
  MBT volumes
>
>(Low pressure compressor to blow 
  down
>
>volumes)
>? 3)
>? Torpedo
>battery pods may need 
  to incorporate some free
>? flooding spaces to reduce weight, or 
  perhaps
>reduce battery capacity to a single pod in
>
>lieu of the 
  former forward water ballast tank, then
>? completely free 
  flood?both torpedoes
>completely??.
>? (Boat will incorporate 
  a
>gen-set)
>? 4) Questionable
>
>reliability of external motor 
  pod assembly.
>
>5)
>? Stability considerations
>? Thanks 
  for the input
>? gents,
>It really helps me to take a step back 
  on
>
>occasion!
>? Joe
>? 
>? 
>? ? 
  ? On
>Sunday,
>? May 4,
>? 2014 10:19 AM, hank pronk 
  via
>Personal_Submersibles
>? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>? 
  ?? Joe,
>
>When I mounted the tanks back on
>? Gamma, I 
  changed the
>? mounting location to
>give a greater angle also I did 
  what
>? Vance
>is saying on a small scale.? ? I then 
  poured
>? a gallon of paint in?
>? each tank and rolled the 
  sub slowly to
>ensure there was
>? complete paint
>coverage.? 
  If I was operating in salt
>
>water I would mount some nipples to the 
  tanks with
>? plugs.? After a dive in salt water,
>remove the 
  plug and
>? you have access to
>spray fresh water inside and rinse 
  the
>? salt
>water out. A large panel is a good idea also 
  because
>? you
>? can open it up after each
>dive and let it 
  dry out.?? 
>? If I
>had a K350, I would not copy the 
  Nekton tanks
>? exactly.? I would change the shape so
>they have 
  more
>? volume at the top reducing
>the
>? rolling effect. 
  Also I would
>? consider
>making them from SS. Also SS heads solves 
  the
>? problems entirely. Start watching ebay for ss
>heads.? 
  I
>? once saw a ss tank exactly
>the
>? same as a 500gal 
  propane tank
>? for 1,500
>dollars on ebay.
>? 
  Hank
>
>--------------------------------------------
>? On Sun, 
  5/4/14, via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>? 
>?
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating a conical
>? 
  transition
>? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>? 
  Received: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 8:32
>AM
>? 
>? Joe,
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Consider using an elliptical head 
  back
>there, for
>? starters. You aren't
>building for much depth 
  here, so
>? the
>K-350 size will be fine (.375" ish). The 
  ellipses
>? are cheaper, do the same job, and give
>you a touch 
  more
>? inside
>room.?Then I would have
>? a cone 
  rolled
>? with a short flange on
>the major diameter, maybe a 
  couple
>? of
>? inches, to match the hull OD.
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? The 
  Nekton
>cone-to-dome caused a
>? pinch point
>that was always a 
  hassle to clean and paint,
>? and
>? ultimately left
>some 
  pitting in the pressure hull that had
>? to
>? 
  be
>weld-repaired. A short cylinder on the sheet metal
>? would give 
  you a little more room under
>there to sandblast
>? and paint 
  during
>assembly and later for overhauls. I would
>? say for 
  maintenance a couple of
>flush-mount, gasketed
>? panels
>? in 
  the tank would serve you well.
>Don't make them
>? too
>? 
  ornery to remove or you
>won't do it as often as you
>? 
  will
>? wish you had.
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? I'm wondering now about my own
>? boat and using 
  tanks like that. Is there
>? anyone in the
>? 
  group
>?
>who can plug and chug a metacentric height on 
  Nekton
>tanks
>? installed on a K-350? Assembly
>would be so simple 
  that
>? way.
>? And it would tow better, which is always
>a 
  good thing. The
>? Nektons roll a bit,
>but are reasonably stable. A 
  K with
>? the
>? pods should have plenty of weight down
>low. 
  Hmm. Would it
>? work? I'm
>thinking yes. Anybody else have an 
  opinion
>
>on
>? that?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Vance
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? -----Original
>? 
  Message-----
>? 
>? From: Joe Perkel 
  via
>Personal_Submersibles
>? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
>? To:
>personal_submersibles
>? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
>? Sent: Sun, May
>4, 2014 12:28 am
>? 
>? Subject: 
  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
>a conical
>? transition
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Vance,
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
  Rethinking that aft assembly to make it
>all soft tanks aft
>? of a 
  hemi head ala
>Nekton.
>? 
>? If I
>go weld-on to the head 
  ala Nekton, how best to attach
>? to the head to allow for periodic 
  access
>and maintenance?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
  Joe
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
>? ? ? ? ? ?? 
>? 
>? 
  ? ? ?
>?
>? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
>
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>?? 
>? 
>?
>
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? 
  ?? 
>? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ?? 
>? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?? 
>? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?? 
>
>? ? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? 
>? From:
>
>? ? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?? 
>? ? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ?
>
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?? via
>? Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? 
  ? ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ?? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? 
>? To:
>? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>?? 
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ? ?
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? ? ? 
  ? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ?
>
>? ? ? ? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ?? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ? 
>? 
  Subject:
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
  ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?? Re:
>? [PSUBS-MAILIST] 
  Terminating
>? a conical transition? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ?? 
>? ? ? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ??
>Sent:
>? ? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ?? 
>? ? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ? ?
>
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?? Sat, May 3,
>2014
>? 2:03:36 PM? ?? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ??
>
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
>?
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ?? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>?? 
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?
>
>?? Joe,
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? It
>? seems like 
  an expensive and complex
>assembly for what you
>? get. Why 
  not
>close the aft segment in a simpler way and
>? fair
>? the 
  stern to the
>shape you prefer? A hemisphere with an
>? extended 
  shaft housing to put the prop
>where you want it,
>? for 
  instance.
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>? 
>? 
>? 
  Vance
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
  -----Original
>?
>Message-----
>? 
>?
>
>? 
  From: Joe Perkel via
>Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
>? 
>? To: Personal Submersibles General
>Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
>? 
>? Sent: Sat, May 3, 2014 8:17 am
>? 
>? 
>? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
>a conical
>? 
  transition
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>? 
>? 
>? 
  Sean,
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Yes,
>? a 
  bolted
>flange with O ring.
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
  I've
>? attached an image of what's on my
>mind. This hull 
  is
>? 36" OD,
>cylinder length is 120". Anything bigger
>? in 
  diameter, simply gets way to big and
>bulky for
>? 
  handling.
>? 
>? 
>?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
  I'm
>? thinking at this size, I must bolt at
>least two 
  hull
>? sections together for
>outfitting and maintenance, and 
  the
>?
>cones can be un-stiffened or perhaps only at the
>? 
  joints.
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>? 
>? Joe
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? 
>? 
>? 
  ? 
>? 
>? ? 
>? 
>? ?? 
  On
>Friday, May
>? 2, 2014 9:50 PM, Sean T.
>Stevenson 
  via
>? Personal_Submersibles
>? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
  wrote:
>? 
>? 
>? ?? 
>? 
>? 
  ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Each cone
>section in that case is 
  considered
>?
>alone, so if you were using stiffeners, you would need 
  a
>? heavy stiffener at every joint.
>Depending on the size, 
  it
>? may be
>simpler to use unstiffened geometry for such 
  an
>?
>? assembly.
>? 
>?
>
>? 
>? 
>? The rules do not address bolting
>pressure
>? hull 
  sections together, but
>I don't see why you
>? couldn't,
>provided 
  you meet the requirements in terms
>
>of
>? the stress analysis 
  under the
>maximum combined loading
>? conditions,
>which are 
  prescribed in the ABS rules.
>? Might
>? require
>some FEA to 
  be sure. You're thinking an O-ring
>? groove seal? Or other 
  arrangement??
>I think an ASME
>? code compliant flange
>would 
  be a good place to start, but
>? I
>? would make sure that the 
  cross-sectional
>area of each half
>? of the flange
>considered 
  individually met the requirements
>? of
>? a heavy stiffener per 
  ABS, at a minimum material
>? location
>? (bolt hole). 
  I
>would also be inclined to use SuperBolts
>
>for
>? the 
  connection. 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? http://www.nord-lock.com/superbolt/multi-jackbolt-tensioners/
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Sean
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? On May 2, 
  2014
>6:03:21
>? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
>Personal_Submersibles 
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
>? wrote:
>? Sean,
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Would the heavy stiffener rule apply
>equally to 
  several
>? cone
>? segments stepping down at 
  different
>angles?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Also, do ASME
>pipe flange specifications translate 
  equally
>? to bolted
>? pressure hull sections? Have I missed a 
  section
>? somewhere on bolted cylindrical
>sections?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Very helpful
>Sean 
  thank you!
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
  Joe
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Sent from 
  Yahoo Mail for iPad 
>? ? ? ? ? ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>?? 
>? 
>?
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
>?
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ?
>?
>? ? ?
>? ? 
  ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? 
  ? ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ?? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? 
>? From:
>
>? ? ? ? 
  ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>?? 
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ? ?
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ?? 
  Sean T. Stevenson
>? via
>?
>Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
>? 
  ?? 
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>
>? ? ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ?? 
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?? To:
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?? 
>? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?? Personal
>? 
  Submersibles General
>?
>Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;?
>? 
  ?? 
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
  ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? 
  ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ?? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ?
>? ??
>Subject:
>? ? ? ? 
  ? ?
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? 
  ? ?? 
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ? ?
>
>? ? ? ? ? ?? 
  Re:
>? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Terminating
>? a conical transition? 
  ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ?? 
>? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
>? Sent:
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
  ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?? Fri, May 2, 2014
>? 
  11:45:11 PM? ? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?? 
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ? ?
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>
>? ?? 
>? ? ? ?
>? 
  ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ?? 
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>?? 
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?? 
>? 
>? 2:1
>semi-elliptical heads are 
  usually
>?
>fabricated with some
>? length of straight flange 
  (tangential
>? cylindrical section) beyond the axis of
>the 
  ellipse.
>? Hemispherical heads may
>or may not have a straight 
  flange
>?
>section, but in either case are
>? permissible to 
  use
>? adjacent
>? to conical sections, provided all 
  other
>requirements are
>? met. For stiffened
>cones, you must have 
  stiffeners meeting
>? the "heavy stiffener" criteria
>at both ends, 
  as
>? close as practicable
>to the cone-to-cylinder 
  and
>?
>cone-to-head transitions. For unstiffened cones, 
  the
>? length
>? L_c used in
>overall buckling calculations 
  must be the
>
>total
>? length between the next heavy
>stiffener 
  to either side of
>? the
>entire compartment length, or between the 
  40% of head
>? depth points if otherwise
>? unbounded.? 
  Cone to head
>? welds are done in the same manner as
>cone to 
  cylinder
>? welds,
>? and if your
>
>? ? head is 
  supplied w!
>? ? ith a
>? flange, it is the 
  same
>
>? thing.
>? 
>?
>
>? 
>? 
>? Sean
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? On 
  May 2, 2014 2:48:52
>? PM MDT, Joe Perkel via
>Personal_Submersibles 
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>? 
  wrote:
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? I have
>? 
  spotted the ABS diagrams and
>specifications for
>? re-enforcement 
  and
>butt welds at conical to cylinder
>?
>transitions. I am 
  somewhat unclear however as to
>? terminating
>?
>? at 
  the head.
>? 
>?
>
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? For
>? example, the
>diagrams in the 
  2014 ABS underwater vehicles
>? and hyperbaric chamber publication 
  shows
>conical
>? transitions
>?
>either bordered by 
  a
>? cylinder at
>either end, or simply
>? open
>? at 
  the small end???
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? I want to terminate the 
  small end of a
>conical
>? transition
>?
>directly to a 
  small diameter hemi-head without another
>? straight section, but I 
  am?unclear
>as to whether or
>? not
>?
>that is 
  acceptable
>? ? in practice.
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
  Joe
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? Personal_Submersibles mailing 
  list
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>?? 
>? 
>?
>
>? 
  ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ??
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ?
>? 
  ? ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>Personal_Submersibles mailing 
  list
>?
>
>? 
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? 
>? 
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>? 
>?
>_______________________________________________
>? 
>? 
>? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>? 
>? 
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? 
>? 
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>
>? ?? 
>? 
>
>? 
>? 
>
>?? 
>? 
>?
>
>? ? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>_______________________________________________
>? 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? ? ? ? 
  ? ? ?
>? ?
>? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ?
>?? 
>? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ?
>? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? 
  ?? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? 
  ?
>? ? ? ?
>? ? ? 
  ?
>?? 
>? ? ? ? ? ? 
  ?
>? ?
>? ?
>? ?? 
>? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>?? 
>? 
>
>? ? ? ? ? ?? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>?
>_______________________________________________
>? 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>? 
>? ? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? 
>? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>? 
>?
>_______________________________________________
>? 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>? 
>
>_______________________________________________
>? 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing
>? list
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>? ? ?? 
>? -----Inline Attachment 
  Follows-----
>? 
>
>_______________________________________________
>? 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>? 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles 
  mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>? 
  ? 
>? 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles 
  mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>? 
  ? ? 
>-----Inline Attachment 
  Follows-----
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles 
  mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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  mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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  mailing 
  list
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 10:11:11 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 07:11:11 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] root pass
Message-ID: <20140505071111.AC5582FD@m0005299.ppops.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 10:16:51 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 09:16:51 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
Message-ID: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>

Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing

Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 10:27:40 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 10:27:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
References: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <8D136854E1BD6F3-2A20-1ED19@webmail-d273.sysops.aol.com>

Congratulations, Scott. Welcome to the fun part.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 5, 2014 10:17 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report



Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing


Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 10:28:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 10:28:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
Message-ID: <8d538.70e95e67.4098f9fb@aol.com>

Hey, Scott,
Thanks for letting us share vicariously in your test  dives.  The details 
are helpful for all of us.  What was the air temp  when you launched, and how 
was the heat inside  Trustworthy?
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/5/2014 9:17:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a  
series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at  
deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5  
dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle  
lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on  
Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger  
and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 
 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike 
Trustworthy's  first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after 
adding  325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do 
alot of  motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of 
it. After  spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the 
Kitteredge  motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught 
in current  or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 
4,500 lbs. I  used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love 
them. The  benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so 
nice. The  underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing 
noise which  I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor 
problems to  note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization 
valve. Later  remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones 
from McMaster  Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. 
It worked fine  on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it 
cracked a little.  Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having 
some weird problems  with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' 
wildly so something is  wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between 
the transducer and  screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 
50lb tub of sodasorb  in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the 
sodasorb in sealed  plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and 
then it will fit very  easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin 
light in the conn. The two  red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work 
well, but while the pilot is in  the conn and it is dark, you can't read check 
lists well or read the digital  depth gauge in the conn. I found myself 
using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while  stareing


Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular?  Smartphone



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 12:59:03 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 09:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <8d538.70e95e67.4098f9fb@aol.com>
References: <8d538.70e95e67.4098f9fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399309143.70470.YahooMailNeo@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Nice report Scott! Looking forward to images.

The O ring advice is noted, as well as your comments on the Kittredge motors, very informative.

Joe
On Monday, May 5, 2014 10:29 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Hey, Scott, 
Thanks for letting us share vicariously in your test 
dives.? The details are helpful for all of us.? What was the air temp 
when you launched, and how was the heat inside Trustworthy? 
Jim 

In a message dated 5/5/2014 9:17:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: 
Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a  series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at  deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5  dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle  lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on  Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger  and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000  candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's  first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding  325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of  motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After  spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge  motors. They have so much power which is nice
 when you get caught in current  or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I  used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The  benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The  underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which  I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to  note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later  remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster  Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine  on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little.  Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems  with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is  wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and  screen. Also
 experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb  in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed  plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very  easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two  red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in  the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital  depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot. 
>The siteings on this trip were 
>*zebra muscles 
>*rocks 
>*mud 
>*a large cat fish 
>*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish) 
>*a little bass 
>*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while 
stareing 
>
> 
>Thanks for reading, 
>Scott Waters 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular?  Smartphone
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles 
  mailing 
  list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 13:01:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 12:01:59 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
Message-ID: <c1bsofohrj3d6eisprgmsbla.1399309201076@email.android.com>

The water temp was 53 degrees and the inside of the sub was perfect. About 65 degrees with two people inside.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hey, Scott,
Thanks for letting us share vicariously in your test dives.? The details are helpful for all of us.? What was the air temp when you launched, and how was the heat inside Trustworthy?
Jim
?
In a message dated 5/5/2014 9:17:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger    and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing

Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 13:04:06 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:04:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <1399309143.70470.YahooMailNeo@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <8d538.70e95e67.4098f9fb@aol.com>
 <1399309143.70470.YahooMailNeo@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D1369B289FFF1E-684-1FE96@webmail-va018.sysops.aol.com>

I caught that on the motors, too. Whose did you use, Scott? And did you build the 1/2X1/2X3 hp set? I wonder in retrospect if it wouldn't be better to build three matching motors, maybe 1 hp or so.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 5, 2014 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report



Nice report Scott! Looking forward to images.


The O ring advice is noted, as well as your comments on the Kittredge motors, very informative.


Joe
 
 
 
  On Monday, May 5, 2014 10:29 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  
  
Hey, Scott,
Thanks for letting us share vicariously in your test dives.  The details are helpful for all of us.  What was the air temp when you launched, and how was the heat inside Trustworthy?
Jim
 

In a message dated 5/5/2014 9:17:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
  
Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a   series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at   deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5   dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle   lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on   Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger   and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000   candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's   first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding   325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of   motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After   spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge   motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current   or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I   used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The   benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The   underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which   I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to   note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later   remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster   Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine   on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little.   Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems   with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is   wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and   screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb   in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed   plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very   easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two   red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in   the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital   depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
  
The siteings on this trip were
  
*zebra muscles
  
*rocks
  
*mud
  
*a large cat fish
  
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
  
*a little bass
  
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing
  


  
Thanks for reading,
  
Scott Waters
  


  


  


  


  
  
Sent from my U.S. Cellular?   Smartphone


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles   mailing   list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



  
 
  
 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 13:31:09 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:31:09 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
References: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ4Sb0PhASnbVzRXS7BwQ=bdnzfJeUTmyjwFjEEcekRUQw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

The first sentence suggested to me that Katy ran off with the sub and two
friends, leaving you at your desk or perhaps doing the dishes. Which would
have been marvelous, but I gather from the rest of the post was not
actually the case. What a disappointment! But despite that, it was an
excellent read of course. I'm looking forward to seeing Trustworthy at
Summersville, and it should be fun making guest dives on each others boats.
Aren't night dives fun? They allow one to pretend its 5,000 feet outside.

Best,

Alec






On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 10:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a
> series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at
> deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5
> dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my
> saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power
> on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for
> passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and
> the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light.
> Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for
> freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop
> weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice,
> started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to
> things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power
> which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond
> instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors
> (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one
> tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good
> with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch
> adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a
> leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O"
> rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this
> one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first
> dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the
> story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the
> sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong.
> I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen.
> Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in
> the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed
> plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit
> very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn.
> The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the
> pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or
> read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash
> light alot.
> The siteings on this trip were
> *zebra muscles
> *rocks
> *mud
> *a large cat fish
> *little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
> *a little bass
> *tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 14:28:10 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 14:28:10 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ4Sb0PhASnbVzRXS7BwQ=bdnzfJeUTmyjwFjEEcekRUQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ4Sb0PhASnbVzRXS7BwQ=bdnzfJeUTmyjwFjEEcekRUQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B2007D9-7C7D-4961-880E-9B85E32A5227@yahoo.com>

"...Aren't night dives fun? They allow one to pretend its 5,000 feet outside..."

Why stop there Alec, why not 12,500?

Someday, I'll hover over and video the bow of the USS Spiegel Grove on a night dive.

....then superimpose Kate Winslet on the video! :)

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 5, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Aren't night dives fun? They allow one to pretend its 5,000 feet outside


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 14:36:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 14:36:36 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
References: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGzKx7vgQa9Len3vUXffQsoNxUkNOpjx3Y05Dko0gzRpMA@mail.gmail.com>

Scott, thanks for the report and good job!

In regards to your *"The benefit of draining one tank or battery bank at a
time is so nice"* comment.  When I was flying balloons we had a similar
practice for changing between propane tanks.  We considered a tank empty
(switched tanks) when a tank got to around 15% vs. a complete usage. This
would allow us to always have a reserve to go back to just in case.  I plan
on using a similar strategy with my psub (if I ever get it finished).

I don't mean to refer that you completely drained your banks before
switching but this seemed like a good place to discuss this "strategy".

Steve


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 10:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a
> series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at
> deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5
> dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my
> saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power
> on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for
> passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and
> the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light.
> Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for
> freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop
> weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice,
> started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to
> things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power
> which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond
> instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors
> (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one
> tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good
> with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch
> adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a
> leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O"
> rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this
> one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first
> dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the
> story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the
> sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong.
> I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen.
> Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in
> the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed
> plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit
> very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn.
> The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the
> pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or
> read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash
> light alot.
> The siteings on this trip were
> *zebra muscles
> *rocks
> *mud
> *a large cat fish
> *little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
> *a little bass
> *tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 15:09:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 14:09:53 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
Message-ID: <lwsc4i46be599usoj5argi53.1399316804956@email.android.com>

They are from George Kittredge. The were made by Pacific Scientific. The main is 3hp and the thrusters are 3/4 hp. I think the way they are is dead on. The thrusters are one speed (forward and reverse) where the main is controlable with forward and reverse. The thrusters are for fine control and the main is for main forward movement and surface manuvering.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:I caught that on the motors, too. Whose did you use, Scott? And did you build the 1/2X1/2X3 hp set? I wonder in retrospect if it wouldn't be better to build three matching motors, maybe 1 hp or so.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 5, 2014 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report

Nice report Scott! Looking forward to images.

The O ring advice is noted, as well as your comments on the Kittredge motors, very informative.

Joe
On Monday, May 5, 2014 10:29 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hey, Scott,
Thanks for letting us share vicariously in your test dives.? The details are helpful for all of us.? What was the air temp when you launched, and how was the heat inside Trustworthy?
Jim
?
In a message dated 5/5/2014 9:17:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of    motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing

Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 15:16:16 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 14:16:16 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
Message-ID: <a53of9wwr9ruvc7ode3r2dsm.1399317322382@email.android.com>

Steve,
I actually do exactly that. Drain till about 15% then switch.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneSteve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott, thanks for the report and good job!

In regards to your "The benefit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice" comment.? When I was flying balloons we had a similar practice for changing between propane tanks.? We considered a tank empty (switched tanks) when a tank got to around 15% vs. a complete usage. This would allow us to always have a reserve to go back to just in case.? I plan on using a similar strategy with my psub (if I ever get it finished).

I don't mean to refer that you completely drained your banks before switching but this seemed like a good place to discuss this "strategy".

Steve


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 10:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing

Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 15:25:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 14:25:29 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
Message-ID: <mavg61a6n6qp9one4tm4fgos.1399317742794@email.android.com>

Alec,
Haha, I guess I should proof read my e-mails. Katy took so many pictures with her cell phone and the night ones are amazing with the exterior lights all on and the water glowing around the sub. If she could back up the trailer by herself she probably would take the sub diving. Haha
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi Scott,

The first sentence suggested to me that Katy ran off with the sub and two friends, leaving you at your desk or perhaps doing the dishes. Which would have been marvelous, but I gather from the rest of the post was not actually the case. What a disappointment! But despite that, it was an excellent read of course. I'm looking forward to seeing Trustworthy at Summersville, and it should be fun making guest dives on each others boats. Aren't night dives fun? They allow one to pretend its 5,000 feet outside. ?

Best,

Alec

?

?


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 10:16 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing

Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May  5 22:39:03 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 19:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
References: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1399343943.1599.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Congratulations Scott,
enjoyed the details. That's a powerful headlight, it must be around 1200 Watt.
Alan


________________________________
 From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:16 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
 


Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get
 caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem
 when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing

Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 01:13:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 22:13:53 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <1399343943.1599.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <8ieatitfymdnxbecaoe15a5a.1399297126549@email.android.com>
 <1399343943.1599.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEG5S9o85ciYW4AgRhMKR0nX9J4gMQKpaGw+tKq9oGvGhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott, Great Report!. How was your internal temp and humidity compared
the water temp.? Love the multiple battery concept. That is the same as in
the SeaQuestor.


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Congratulations Scott,
> enjoyed the details. That's a powerful headlight, it must be around 1200
> Watt.
> Alan
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:16 AM
>
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
>
> Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a
> series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at
> deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5
> dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my
> saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power
> on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for
> passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and
> the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light.
> Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for
> freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop
> weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice,
> started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to
> things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power
> which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond
> instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors
> (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one
> tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good
> with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch
> adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a
> leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O"
> rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this
> one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first
> dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the
> story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the
> sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong.
> I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen.
> Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in
> the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed
> plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit
> very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn.
> The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the
> pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or
> read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash
> light alot.
> The siteings on this trip were
> *zebra muscles
> *rocks
> *mud
> *a large cat fish
> *little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
> *a little bass
> *tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 07:39:32 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 06:39:32 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
Message-ID: <eq9jerfh6wnpr88je4saq15r.1399376247126@email.android.com>

David,
Water temp was 53 degrees and the cabin was about 65 degrees with two people. It wad perfect. Humidity was lower than expected. I don't have a % though.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneDavid Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi Scott, Great Report!. How was your internal temp and humidity compared the water temp.? Love the multiple battery concept. That is the same as in the SeaQuestor.


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Congratulations Scott,
enjoyed the details. That's a powerful headlight, it must be around 1200 Watt.
Alan

From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:16 AM

Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report

Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
The siteings on this trip were
*zebra muscles
*rocks
*mud
*a large cat fish
*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
*a little bass
*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing

Thanks for reading,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 11:53:39 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 09:53:39 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
In-Reply-To: <eq9jerfh6wnpr88je4saq15r.1399376247126@email.android.com>
References: <eq9jerfh6wnpr88je4saq15r.1399376247126@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <e61a2a56-1cf7-4521-b393-6c1a3ebba431@email.android.com>

Just a reminder of the ABS requirements for life support parameter monitoring:

1) Oxygen % by volume, corrected to STP. Operating Range 18% to 23%.

2) Carbon Dioxide % by volume, corrected to STP. Operating Range 0% to 0.5%.

3) Cabin % relative humidity. Operating Range (recommended) 30% to 70%.

Temperature isn't specifically listed, but it's not a bad idea as it is easy to do. Components need to be specified to 40? C, and the temperature affects the % RH. Plus, human comfort comes into play. As % RH increases, so does the required temperature for the same reported level of comfort.

Sean


On May 6, 2014 5:39:32 AM MDT, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>David,
>Water temp was 53 degrees and the cabin was about 65 degrees with two
>people. It wad perfect. Humidity was lower than expected. I don't have
>a % though.?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneDavid Colombo via
>Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi Scott,
>Great Report!. How was your internal temp and humidity compared the
>water temp.? Love the multiple battery concept. That is the same as in
>the SeaQuestor.
>
>
>Best Regards,
>David Colombo
>
>804 College Ave
>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>(707) 536-1424
>www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
>On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Congratulations Scott,
>enjoyed the details. That's a powerful headlight, it must be around
>1200 Watt.
>Alan
>
>From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 2:16 AM
>
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Dive Report
>
>Yesterday my wife Katy and two other friends took Trustworthy out for a
>series of dive tests. Pictures to be posted soon. We went down 21feet
>at deepest point for about 30 minutes on the longest dive. We did a
>total of 5 dives. The dives went into the night and I got a great
>chance to use my saddle lights, work lights, and head light. The light
>placement and power on Trustworthy were perfect for lighting up the
>under water veiws for passenger and myself. The 55watt halogen work
>lights and saddle lights and the 2,000,000 candle power head light were
>the perfect amount of light. Unlike Trustworthy's first test this time
>I was properly weighted for freash water after adding 325lbs in landing
>skid weights and extra drop weights. I got to do alot of motoring
>around and after some practice, started to get the hang of it. After
>spending some time getting used to things, I gotta say I love the
>Kitteredge motors. They have so much power which is nice when you get
>caught in current or wind and they respond instantly even with the sub
>weighing 4,500 lbs. I used my bank selectors (hp air, O2 air, and
>battery) and I love them. The benifit of draining one tank or battery
>bank at a time is so nice. The underwater comms worked good with the
>acception of a loud ringing noise which I believe a squelch adjustment
>would fix. We did have a few minor problems to note. I had a leak from
>the autimatic cabin equilization valve. Later remembering all "O" rings
>on the sub were the high quaility ones from McMaster Carr and this one
>was a cheap one intended for home plumbing. It worked fine on the first
>dive last fall, but sitting over winter it cracked a little. Moral of
>the story, use good "O" rings. We also are having some weird problems
>with the sonar. It was reading a depth from 8' to 320' wildly so
>something is wrong. I am thinking it might be a connection between the
>transducer and screen. Also experienced a space problem when jamming
>the 50lb tub of sodasorb in the storage compartment. I am going to
>repack the sodasorb in sealed plastic bags prepacked size to fit in the
>scrubbers and then it will fit very easily. One new mod I am going to
>do is put a cabin light in the conn. The two red/white cabin lights in
>the main cabin work well, but while the pilot is in the conn and it is
>dark, you can't read check lists well or read the digital depth gauge
>in the conn. I found myself using a flash light alot.
>The siteings on this trip were
>*zebra muscles
>*rocks
>*mud
>*a large cat fish
>*little worm things swimming to our lights (I think baby fish)
>*a little bass
>*tons of confused Kansans almost crashing their boats while stareing
>
>Thanks for reading,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 16:09:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 15:09:59 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
Message-ID: <rht8dl7ps1vcrvc5joervlif.1399406952719@email.android.com>

Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or light housings?
Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just need better housings.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 18:07:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 15:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
Message-ID: <1399414033.99109.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Today I took Gamma to Premier Lake and did several dives.  I reached 50 feet on the second dive and my employee took it out for a 20 foot dive.  
The hatch was leaking on the first dive until I got down to 20 feet or so.  Never leaked after that.  No other leaks at all.
ACQ's are amazing and clear as a bell.  I hit the bottom a bunch of times until I figured it out.  
The rudder is very effective and the sub is quite speedy going forward and poor in reverse.  Acceleration is modest but it gets going quite well.
The launch cart worked quite well but was a bit problematic because it floats :-) 
I have a small noise to trace from the magnetic drive coupler area.
All in all a success 
Hank 

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 18:25:11 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 15:25:11 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
Message-ID: <20140506152511.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f10953092f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 18:37:30 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 15:37:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
In-Reply-To: <20140506152511.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f10953092f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1399415850.53345.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Scott,
I see congratulations are in order for you.  Well done!, I look forward to the night dives after your report. 
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/6/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 6:25 PM
 
 Great
 to hear Hank! Sounds like it the week for dive tests!
 Thanks,
 Scott Waters?
 ?
 
 -------- Original
 Message --------
 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Date: Tue, May 06, 2014 3:07 pm
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 
 Today I took Gamma to Premier Lake and did several dives. I
 reached 50 feet on the second dive and my employee took it
 out for a 20 foot dive. 
 The hatch was leaking on the first dive until I got down to
 20 feet or so. Never leaked after that. No other leaks at
 all.
 ACQ's are amazing and clear as a bell. I hit the bottom
 a bunch of times until I figured it out. 
 The rudder is very effective and the sub is quite speedy
 going forward and poor in reverse. Acceleration is modest
 but it gets going quite well.
 The launch cart worked quite well but was a bit problematic
 because it floats :-) 
 I have a small noise to trace from the magnetic drive
 coupler area.
 All in all a success 
 Hank 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 18:53:04 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 15:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
In-Reply-To: <1399414033.99109.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399414033.99109.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399416784.38979.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Well done Hank,
that's submarine no 5 or 6 ??. Look forward to some pictures.
Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:07 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
 

Today I took Gamma to Premier Lake and did several dives.? I reached 50 feet on the second dive and my employee took it out for a 20 foot dive.? 
The hatch was leaking on the first dive until I got down to 20 feet or so.? Never leaked after that.? No other leaks at all.
ACQ's are amazing and clear as a bell.? I hit the bottom a bunch of times until I figured it out.? 
The rudder is very effective and the sub is quite speedy going forward and poor in reverse.? Acceleration is modest but it gets going quite well.
The launch cart worked quite well but was a bit problematic because it floats :-) 
I have a small noise to trace from the magnetic drive coupler area.
All in all a success 
Hank 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 19:09:21 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 16:09:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
In-Reply-To: <1399416784.38979.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399417761.95426.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Alan,
We took lots of pictures, I am trying to figure out this stupid windows 8.1 :-) I will post them when my wife takes pitty on me and helps me. 
I must say, and I am sure Scott will agree, I will never get over the feeling that depth means nothing in a sub.  One minute your looking at the surface the next your 50 feet down looking at weeds and fish, and it feels the same.  Very neat feeling.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/6/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 6:53 PM
 
 Well done
 Hank,that's
 submarine no 5 or 6 ??. Look forward to some
 pictures.Alan
       
  From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To:
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent:
 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:07 AM
  Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
    
 Today I took Gamma to Premier Lake and did several
 dives.? I reached 50 feet on the second dive and my
 employee took it out for a 20 foot dive.? 
 The hatch was leaking on the first dive until I got down to
 20 feet or so.? Never leaked after that.? No other
 leaks at all.
 ACQ's are amazing and clear as a bell.? I hit the
 bottom a bunch of times until I figured it out.? 
 The rudder is
  very effective and the sub is quite speedy going forward
 and poor in reverse.? Acceleration is modest but it
 gets going quite well.
 The launch cart worked quite well but was a bit problematic
 because it floats :-) 
 I have a small noise to trace from the magnetic drive
 coupler area.
 All in all a success 
 Hank 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May  6 19:09:26 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 16:09:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
In-Reply-To: <1399416784.38979.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399417766.50814.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Alan,
We took lots of pictures, I am trying to figure out this stupid windows 8.1 :-) I will post them when my wife takes pitty on me and helps me. 
I must say, and I am sure Scott will agree, I will never get over the feeling that depth means nothing in a sub.  One minute your looking at the surface the next your 50 feet down looking at weeds and fish, and it feels the same.  Very neat feeling.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/6/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 6:53 PM
 
 Well done
 Hank,that's
 submarine no 5 or 6 ??. Look forward to some
 pictures.Alan
       
  From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To:
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent:
 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:07 AM
  Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
    
 Today I took Gamma to Premier Lake and did several
 dives.? I reached 50 feet on the second dive and my
 employee took it out for a 20 foot dive.? 
 The hatch was leaking on the first dive until I got down to
 20 feet or so.? Never leaked after that.? No other
 leaks at all.
 ACQ's are amazing and clear as a bell.? I hit the
 bottom a bunch of times until I figured it out.? 
 The rudder is
  very effective and the sub is quite speedy going forward
 and poor in reverse.? Acceleration is modest but it
 gets going quite well.
 The launch cart worked quite well but was a bit problematic
 because it floats :-) 
 I have a small noise to trace from the magnetic drive
 coupler area.
 All in all a success 
 Hank 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 08:48:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 08:48:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
Message-ID: <94eba.185bffb4.409b85a1@aol.com>

Hi Hank,
Congratulations on Gamma's first dive in a long time.   Lots of folks will 
be eager to see pictures of such an historic event and hear  the tale.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/6/2014 6:11:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Hi  Alan,
We took lots of pictures, I am trying to figure out this stupid  windows 
8.1 :-) I will post them when my wife takes pitty on me and helps me.  
I must say, and I am sure Scott will agree, I will never get over the  
feeling that depth means nothing in a sub.  One minute your looking at  the 
surface the next your 50 feet down looking at weeds and fish, and it feels  the 
same.  Very neat  feeling.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Tue,  5/6/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
To: "Personal Submersibles General  Discussion" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Tuesday, May  6, 2014, 6:53 PM

Well done
Hank,that's
submarine no 5 or 6 ??.  Look forward to some
pictures.Alan

From: hank pronk  via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To:
personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent:
Wednesday, May 7,  2014 10:07 AM
Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive

Today I took Gamma to Premier Lake and did several
dives.   I reached 50 feet on the second dive and my
employee took it out for a 20  foot dive.  
The hatch was leaking on the first dive until I got down  to
20 feet or so.  Never leaked after that.  No other
leaks at  all.
ACQ's are amazing and clear as a bell.  I hit the
bottom a  bunch of times until I figured it out.  
The rudder is
very  effective and the sub is quite speedy going forward
and poor in  reverse.  Acceleration is modest but it
gets going quite well.
The  launch cart worked quite well but was a bit problematic
because it floats  :-) 
I have a small noise to trace from the magnetic drive
coupler  area.
All in all a success 
Hank  
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



-----Inline Attachment  Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 10:30:48 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 07:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <rht8dl7ps1vcrvc5joervlif.1399406952719@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1399473048.9504.YahooMailBasic@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Emile may be able to help you.


--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
 
 Does
 anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
 "can" lights or light
 housings?Mine took on some water during the
 test. Amount of light was great, just need better
 housings.Thanks,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 12:52:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 04:52:47 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <1399473048.9504.YahooMailBasic@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399473048.9504.YahooMailBasic@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EB196A46-3486-4E03-B7F5-84CFB77895CD@yahoo.com>

Came across this mini sub for sale. 
It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Emile may be able to help you.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
> 
> Does
> anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
> "can" lights or light
> housings?Mine took on some water during the
> test. Amount of light was great, just need better
> housings.Thanks,Scott
> Waters
> 
> 
> 
> Sent
> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 12:58:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 09:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
In-Reply-To: <94eba.185bffb4.409b85a1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399481895.71303.YahooMailIosMobile@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Yes, quite historic! Yours is a boat featured in the Busby text.<br/><br/>Congratulation, well done, and may you enjoy many adventures!<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 14:16:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 20:16:53 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <EB196A46-3486-4E03-B7F5-84CFB77895CD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

I doubt it is a sub from 1938.

The Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the 3
prototypes still exists..
If I am right it is far to expensive..

Emile

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei 2014 18:53
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub

Came across this mini sub for sale. 
It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Emile may be able to help you.
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
> 
> Does
> anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
> "can" lights or light
> housings?Mine took on some water during the
> test. Amount of light was great, just need better
> housings.Thanks,Scott
> Waters
> 
> 
> 
> Sent
> from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 14:24:27 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 20:24:27 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <rht8dl7ps1vcrvc5joervlif.1399406952719@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAZwBuLnAhAUqtszeEA8xUuQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Scott, 

 

I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to purchase
lampheads for technical scuba diving.

http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv 

 If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.

 

Regards, Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights

 

Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or
light housings?

Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just
need better housings.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 14:41:18 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 14:41:18 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <EB196A46-3486-4E03-B7F5-84CFB77895CD@yahoo.com>
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6wxovbeHzt5WB3RY0mCiDbkG4XOt6DximkrWoVvDhYYw@mail.gmail.com>

Historically I also find it also somewhat surprising (I'm originally from
Argentina). The Argentine army was based on the German army, with similar
uniforms, Mauser rifles, etc. But the Argentine navy was based on the Royal
Navy and typically had equipment of UK or US origin. The year 1940 would be
sort of a tough one to send anything military from Germany to Argentina. I
also wonder if this was really a navy boat at all, what its mission might
have been - it does not appear to be any more threatening than a K-250,
which is to say not a danger to anything whatsoever. Given Carsten's
comprehensive records and knowledge of German subs large and small, I look
forward to his opinion.

Now, having said all that, when I was a teenager accompanying my older
brother to his flying lessons, there was a very real and pristine Me-109
two-seat trainer in the hangar of the our local grass-strip airfield.


Best,

Alec


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I doubt it is a sub from 1938.
>
> The Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the 3
> prototypes still exists..
> If I am right it is far to expensive..
>
> Emile
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org
> ]
> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
> Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei 2014 18:53
> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
>
> Came across this mini sub for sale.
> It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
> http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >
> > Emile may be able to help you.
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
> >
> > Does
> > anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
> > "can" lights or light
> > housings?Mine took on some water during the
> > test. Amount of light was great, just need better
> > housings.Thanks,Scott
> > Waters
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent
> > from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 15:03:05 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:03:05 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ6wxovbeHzt5WB3RY0mCiDbkG4XOt6DximkrWoVvDhYYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EB196A46-3486-4E03-B7F5-84CFB77895CD@yahoo.com>
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <CABECYQ6wxovbeHzt5WB3RY0mCiDbkG4XOt6DximkrWoVvDhYYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6AE55B60-1CE9-4AD1-B974-4E527FF9D641@yahoo.com>

I find the claims dubious as well. Particularly since I've been recently delving into WWII German mini sub technology. 

As Alec states, what was the mission? 

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Historically I also find it also somewhat surprising (I'm originally from Argentina). The Argentine army was based on the German army, with similar uniforms, Mauser rifles, etc. But the Argentine navy was based on the Royal Navy and typically had equipment of UK or US origin. The year 1940 would be sort of a tough one to send anything military from Germany to Argentina. I also wonder if this was really a navy boat at all, what its mission might have been - it does not appear to be any more threatening than a K-250, which is to say not a danger to anything whatsoever. Given Carsten's comprehensive records and knowledge of German subs large and small, I look forward to his opinion.
> 
> Now, having said all that, when I was a teenager accompanying my older brother to his flying lessons, there was a very real and pristine Me-109 two-seat trainer in the hangar of the our local grass-strip airfield.
>  
> 
> Best,
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> I doubt it is a sub from 1938.
>> 
>> The Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the 3
>> prototypes still exists..
>> If I am right it is far to expensive..
>> 
>> Emile
>> 
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
>> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei 2014 18:53
>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
>> 
>> Came across this mini sub for sale.
>> It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
>> http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
>> Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> > On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Emile may be able to help you.
>> >
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------
>> > On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
>> >
>> > Does
>> > anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
>> > "can" lights or light
>> > housings?Mine took on some water during the
>> > test. Amount of light was great, just need better
>> > housings.Thanks,Scott
>> > Waters
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent
>> > from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 15:05:46 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:05:46 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <6AE55B60-1CE9-4AD1-B974-4E527FF9D641@yahoo.com>
References: <EB196A46-3486-4E03-B7F5-84CFB77895CD@yahoo.com>
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <CABECYQ6wxovbeHzt5WB3RY0mCiDbkG4XOt6DximkrWoVvDhYYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6AE55B60-1CE9-4AD1-B974-4E527FF9D641@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnLwP0Ad1FWuSN8fSx3_eUWcOg=f3O3+VoOEO099Dve+hA@mail.gmail.com>

Even if the information is incorrect, it's still an interesting find.
Thanks Alan. ~ Douglas S.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I find the claims dubious as well. Particularly since I've been recently
> delving into WWII German mini sub technology.
>
> As Alec states, what was the mission?
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 7, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Historically I also find it also somewhat surprising (I'm originally from
> Argentina). The Argentine army was based on the German army, with similar
> uniforms, Mauser rifles, etc. But the Argentine navy was based on the Royal
> Navy and typically had equipment of UK or US origin. The year 1940 would be
> sort of a tough one to send anything military from Germany to Argentina. I
> also wonder if this was really a navy boat at all, what its mission might
> have been - it does not appear to be any more threatening than a K-250,
> which is to say not a danger to anything whatsoever. Given Carsten's
> comprehensive records and knowledge of German subs large and small, I look
> forward to his opinion.
>
> Now, having said all that, when I was a teenager accompanying my older
> brother to his flying lessons, there was a very real and pristine Me-109
> two-seat trainer in the hangar of the our local grass-strip airfield.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> I doubt it is a sub from 1938.
>>
>> The Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the 3
>> prototypes still exists..
>> If I am right it is far to expensive..
>>
>> Emile
>>
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
>> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei 2014 18:53
>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
>>
>> Came across this mini sub for sale.
>> It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
>> http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
>> Alan
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Emile may be able to help you.
>> >
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------
>> > On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
>> >
>> > Does
>> > anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
>> > "can" lights or light
>> > housings?Mine took on some water during the
>> > test. Amount of light was great, just need better
>> > housings.Thanks,Scott
>> > Waters
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent
>> > from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 15:10:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: 07 May 2014 19:10 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <1Wi7Er-2QBj9M0@fwd31.t-online.de>

If this is a german from 1938 than I a US from 1920.. 

Looks like a Psub drop tank conversion or so. 

vbr Carsten the German 

"Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> schrieb:
> I doubt it is a sub from 1938.
> 
> The Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the 3
> prototypes still exists..
> If I am right it is far to expensive..
> 
> Emile
> 
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
> Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei 2014 18:53
> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
> 
> Came across this mini sub for sale. 
> It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
> http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
> Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Emile may be able to help you.
> > 
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
> > 
> > Does
> > anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
> > "can" lights or light
> > housings?Mine took on some water during the
> > test. Amount of light was great, just need better
> > housings.Thanks,Scott
> > Waters
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent
> > from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone
> > 
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 15:18:43 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:18:43 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjnLwP0Ad1FWuSN8fSx3_eUWcOg=f3O3+VoOEO099Dve+hA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EB196A46-3486-4E03-B7F5-84CFB77895CD@yahoo.com>
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <CABECYQ6wxovbeHzt5WB3RY0mCiDbkG4XOt6DximkrWoVvDhYYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6AE55B60-1CE9-4AD1-B974-4E527FF9D641@yahoo.com>
 <CAOGJjnLwP0Ad1FWuSN8fSx3_eUWcOg=f3O3+VoOEO099Dve+hA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ7=x=TbHE_qeOHxmLidb_w9B5bAna1Y_P=RwPnyoq1kQA@mail.gmail.com>

A very pretty design as well. I like the purity of that teardrop shape,
which seems so hard to fabricate. Very odd to have what apparently is a
second motor in the bow, although missing a prop now. But taking a second
look I notice the rivets visible at the stern, plus the snorkel. Hmmm...
maybe this thing is real after all.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Even if the information is incorrect, it's still an interesting find.
> Thanks Alan. ~ Douglas S.
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> I find the claims dubious as well. Particularly since I've been recently
>> delving into WWII German mini sub technology.
>>
>> As Alec states, what was the mission?
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 7, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Historically I also find it also somewhat surprising (I'm originally from
>> Argentina). The Argentine army was based on the German army, with similar
>> uniforms, Mauser rifles, etc. But the Argentine navy was based on the Royal
>> Navy and typically had equipment of UK or US origin. The year 1940 would be
>> sort of a tough one to send anything military from Germany to Argentina. I
>> also wonder if this was really a navy boat at all, what its mission might
>> have been - it does not appear to be any more threatening than a K-250,
>> which is to say not a danger to anything whatsoever. Given Carsten's
>> comprehensive records and knowledge of German subs large and small, I look
>> forward to his opinion.
>>
>> Now, having said all that, when I was a teenager accompanying my older
>> brother to his flying lessons, there was a very real and pristine Me-109
>> two-seat trainer in the hangar of the our local grass-strip airfield.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I doubt it is a sub from 1938.
>>>
>>> The Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the
>>> 3
>>> prototypes still exists..
>>> If I am right it is far to expensive..
>>>
>>> Emile
>>>
>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
>>> Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>>> Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei 2014 18:53
>>> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
>>>
>>> Came across this mini sub for sale.
>>> It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
>>> http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> > On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Emile may be able to help you.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --------------------------------------------
>>> > On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>> > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
>>> >
>>> > Does
>>> > anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
>>> > "can" lights or light
>>> > housings?Mine took on some water during the
>>> > test. Amount of light was great, just need better
>>> > housings.Thanks,Scott
>>> > Waters
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent
>>> > from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone
>>> >
>>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 16:43:30 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 13:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <1Wi7Er-2QBj9M0@fwd31.t-online.de>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <1Wi7Er-2QBj9M0@fwd31.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1399495410.70880.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

OK, I did a Google & I think you are saved from being an American Carsten.
I won't buy it.
Wonder if Hanks tempted?
Alan


________________________________
 From: "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
 


If this is a
german from 1938 than I a US from 
1920..?

Looks like a Psub drop tank conversion or so. 

vbr 
Carsten the German?


"Emile van Essen via
Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
schrieb:
> I doubt it is a sub from 1938.
> 
> The
Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the
3
> prototypes still exists..
> If I am right it is far to
expensive..
> 
> Emile
> 
> -----Oorspronkelijk
bericht-----
> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
>
Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
> Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei
2014 18:53
> Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
> 
> Came across
this mini sub for sale. 
> It resembles the R300, with Emile's
acrylic sail on it.
> http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
>
Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via
Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
> > 
> > Emile may be able to help you.
>
> 
> > 
> >
--------------------------------------------
> > On Tue,
5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:
> > 
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Lights
> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>
> Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
> > 
> >
Does
> > anyone have a source for underwater pressure
rated
> > "can" lights or light
> > housings?Mine took
on some water during the
> > test. Amount of light was great,
just need better
> > housings.Thanks,Scott
> >
Waters
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
Sent
> > from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone
> > 
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > 
>
> _______________________________________________
> >
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> 
> > 
> >
_______________________________________________
> >
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
>
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
?

_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 16:56:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 13:56:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seehund Aft Dive Tank
Message-ID: <1399496173.95645.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

As an example of my delving into this particular subject, I am having a bit of trouble trying to understand the nature of the aft diving tank (No.1)?on the original Seehund. Understanding this well, is key to an appropriate attempt for a viable facsimile.

I've attached an image of where I'm unclear. I suspect that the?uppermost?volume?of this tank was encased in what looks like a double hull void, but I can not quite confirm this. Also in question are the following with my analysis, supposition or questioning.


1) Is this a double hull in this aft conical section??? (Raising CB, lowering CG)
2) Position of the vent valve???? (Is this due to dive angle?)
3) "J" trap nature of bottom of assembly in keel section of tank???? (Anti-syphon?)
4) Coiled hose assembly in section view?? (completely at a loss here?)

Comment's and suggestions are sincerely appreciated. What's on my mind is the temptation and?viability of reproduction in reduced scale. Sea Hunter's lines are pleasing and close to scale in section @ 36"OD for the hull, 24" for the CT/Sail assembly and No. 14 pipe for the torpedo/battery pod assemblies. (Can get away with No. 12 as well).

Cliff's wonderful .xls requires that I draw up an accurate model first in order to simulate ballasting.

Joe
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 17:00:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: 07 May 2014 21:00 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ7=x=TbHE_qeOHxmLidb_w9B5bAna1Y_P=RwPnyoq1kQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EB196A46-3486-4E03-B7F5-84CFB77895CD@yahoo.com> 
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAsnFkUgr+SE+4omcNpH7opQEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <CABECYQ6wxovbeHzt5WB3RY0mCiDbkG4XOt6DximkrWoVvDhYYw@mail.gmail.com> 
 <6AE55B60-1CE9-4AD1-B974-4E527FF9D641@yahoo.com> 
 <CAOGJjnLwP0Ad1FWuSN8fSx3_eUWcOg=f3O3+VoOEO099Dve+hA@mail.gmail.com> 
 <CABECYQ7=x=TbHE_qeOHxmLidb_w9B5bAna1Y_P=RwPnyoq1kQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1Wi8wl-1ITYQK0@fwd24.t-online.de>

Alec this is maybe a German..
   
And was original a mine hunter bouy (Tiefendrachen or Scherschwimmer) 
from the 60-70ies - some of them have this kind of boltet skegs/fins. 
To easy remove damage fins. 

http://www.7tes-msg.de/museumsschiff/dresden-april-2009/raeum-1.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Lindau-Klasse_Heck_mit_Winden.JPG

Clear the sub was not a navy device - the interior outfitting indicate
in all details a low level private build. 

vbr Carsten

"Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
schrieb: 
A very pretty design as well. I like the purity of that teardrop shape,
which seems so hard to fabricate. Very odd to have what apparently is a
second motor in the bow, although missing a prop now. But taking a
second look I notice the rivets visible at the stern, plus the snorkel.
Hmmm... maybe this thing is real after all.



On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Even if the information is incorrect, it's still an interesting find.
Thanks Alan. ~ Douglas S.  



On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I find the claims dubious as well. Particularly since I've been recently
delving into WWII German mini sub technology. 


As Alec states, what was the mission? 


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


Historically I also find it also somewhat surprising (I'm originally
from Argentina). The Argentine army was based on the German army, with
similar uniforms, Mauser rifles, etc. But the Argentine navy was based
on the Royal Navy and typically had equipment of UK or US origin. The
year 1940 would be sort of a tough one to send anything military from
Germany to Argentina. I also wonder if this was really a navy boat at
all, what its mission might have been - it does not appear to be any
more threatening than a K-250, which is to say not a danger to anything
whatsoever. Given Carsten's comprehensive records and knowledge of
German subs large and small, I look forward to his opinion.


Now, having said all that, when I was a teenager accompanying my older
brother to his flying lessons, there was a very real and pristine Me-109
two-seat trainer in the hangar of the our local grass-strip airfield.
 


Best,


Alec



On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Emile van Essen via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I doubt it is a sub from 1938.

The Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And none of the
3
prototypes still exists..
If I am right it is far to expensive..

Emile

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei 2014 18:53
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub


Came across this mini sub for sale.
It resembles the R300, with Emile's acrylic sail on it.
http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Emile may be able to help you.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
>
> Does
> anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated
> "can" lights or light
> housings?Mine took on some water during the
> test. Amount of light was great, just need better
> housings.Thanks,Scott
> Waters
>
>
>
> Sent

> from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone

>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 17:32:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: 07 May 2014 21:32 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seehund Aft Dive Tank
In-Reply-To: <1399496173.95645.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399496173.95645.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1Wi9SH-2SgXgW0@fwd16.t-online.de>


Hi Joe the Seehund has some quite funny system. 

01)  No there is no double hull in the aft. 

02) Yes both dive tanks has the vents on the aft and highest point for
quick diving. From command "dive" to get underwater was 10 seconds. 

03) The j trap is the outlet of the blow air line. 

The Seehund surface the following way: 

Close vent vale, blow a little compress air to the blow out line, until
the diesel snorckel surface. Drive the diesel with the main e-motor as
compressor and blow the dive tank with this  gas complete. out. 

Another way was : (mostly use by the crew but more or less ilegal : Run
the boat dynamicly to the surface , start the diesel and blow the tanks
with the exhaust gas. 

Both ways were developt to safe on compress storage gases. 

04) No idea. 

vbr Carsten

rkel via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
schrieb: 
As an example of my delving into this particular subject, I am having a
bit of trouble trying to understand the nature of the aft diving tank
(No.1) on the original Seehund. Understanding this well, is key to an
appropriate attempt for a viable facsimile.


I've attached an image of where I'm unclear. I suspect that the
uppermost volume of this tank was encased in what looks like a double
hull void, but I can not quite confirm this. Also in question are the
following with my analysis, supposition or questioning.




1) Is this a double hull in this aft conical section?   (Raising CB,
lowering CG)
2) Position of the vent valve?    (Is this due to dive angle?)
3) "J" trap nature of bottom of assembly in keel section of tank?   
(Anti-syphon?)
4) Coiled hose assembly in section view?? (completely at a loss here?)


Comment's and suggestions are sincerely appreciated. What's on my mind
is the temptation and viability of reproduction in reduced scale. Sea
Hunter's lines are pleasing and close to scale in section @ 36"OD for
the hull, 24" for the CT/Sail assembly and No. 14 pipe for the
torpedo/battery pod assemblies. (Can get away with No. 12 as well).


Cliff's wonderful .xls requires that I draw up an accurate model first
in order to simulate ballasting.


Joe


 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 17:43:45 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 14:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
In-Reply-To: <1399495410.70880.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399499025.65061.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
I would buy it in a flash, I think it has huge potential.  I doubt it can do 350 feet, but 100 perhaps.  Only problem is it is way over priced and has been for sale for a LONG time.
Hank
On Wed, 5/7/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 4:43 PM
 
 OK, I did a Google & I think you
 are saved from being an American Carsten.I won't buy it.Wonder if Hanks
 tempted?Alan
       
  From: "Carsten
 Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
  Sent:
 Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:10 AM
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
    
 If this is a
 german from 1938 than I a US from 
 1920..?
 
 Looks like a
 Psub drop tank conversion or so.
 
 
 vbr 
 Carsten the German?
 
 "Emile
 van Essen via
 Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 schrieb:
 > I doubt it is a sub from
 1938.
 > 
 > The
 Delphin comes the closest but was developed in 1944. And
 none of the
 3
 > prototypes still exists..
 > If I am right it is far to
 expensive..
 > 
 >
 Emile
 > 
 >
 -----Oorspronkelijk
 bericht-----
 > Van: Personal_Submersibles
 [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 >
 Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles
 >
 Verzonden: woensdag 7 mei
 2014 18:53
 > Aan: Personal Submersibles
 General Discussion
 >
 Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] German mini sub
 > 
 > Came across
 this mini sub for sale. 
 > It resembles
 the R300, with Emile's
 acrylic sail on it.
 > http://bronzecannons.net/submarine.html
 >
 Alan
 > 
 > Sent from my
 iPad
 > 
 > > On 8/05/2014, at 2:30 am, Jon Wallace
 via
 Personal_Submersibles
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > > 
 > >
 Emile may be able to help you.
 >
 > 
 > > 
 > >
 --------------------------------------------
 > > On Tue,
 5/6/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > > 
 > >
 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
 Lights
 > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 >
 > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
 > > 
 > >
 Does
 > > anyone have a source for
 underwater pressure
 rated
 > > "can" lights or
 light
 > > housings?Mine took
 on some water during the
 > > test.
 Amount of light was great,
 just need better
 > >
 housings.Thanks,Scott
 > >
 Waters
 > > 
 > >
 
 > > 
 > >
 Sent
 > > from my U.S. CellularC
 Smartphone
 > >
 
 > > -----Inline Attachment
 Follows-----
 > > 
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > >
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > >
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >
 > 
 > > 
 > >
 _______________________________________________
 > >
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > >
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >
 
 >
 _______________________________________________
 >
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >
 
 >
 _______________________________________________
 >
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >
 
 ?
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 18:11:14 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:11:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1399500674.62377.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I just added pictures of my test dive to Gamma restoration.  You can see Gamma has great freeboard, and this is with 200 lbs to much ballast.  I am real tired of subs being to light to sink, so I went the other way and made it heavy.  I dove it then remove weight about 5 times to get it just right.  In the end Gamma was 10 lbs heavy.  Much easier to control descent with the proper weight :-)
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 18:22:20 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1399500674.62377.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399500674.62377.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399501340.13959.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Looks a really nice boat sitting there in the water Hank.
Here's your photo link
http://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/

Alan


________________________________
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:11 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
 

I just added pictures of my test dive to Gamma restoration.? You can see Gamma has great freeboard, and this is with 200 lbs to much ballast.? I am real tired of subs being to light to sink, so I went the other way and made it heavy.? I dove it then remove weight about 5 times to get it just right.? In the end Gamma was 10 lbs heavy.? Much easier to control descent with the proper weight :-)
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 18:30:39 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:30:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1399501340.13959.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399501839.89749.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
Thank you, I am pleased with the outcome.  I do need to put a proper paint job on it still.  
I guess it is time to start thinking about what is next to build.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/7/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 6:22 PM
 
 Looks a really
 nice boat sitting there in the water Hank.Here's your photo linkhttp://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
 Alan
         From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To:
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014
 10:11 AM
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no
 subject)
   
 
 I just added pictures of my test dive to Gamma
 restoration.? You can see Gamma has great freeboard,
 and this is with 200 lbs to much ballast.? I am real
 tired of subs being to light to sink, so I went the other
 way and made it heavy.? I dove it then remove weight
 about 5 times to get it just right.? In the end Gamma
 was 10 lbs heavy.? Much easier to control descent with
 the proper weight :-)
 Hank
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing
 list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
  
   
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 19:05:41 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2014 16:05:41 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
Message-ID: <20140507160541.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.3abb9c4502.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 20:01:32 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 17:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <20140507160541.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.3abb9c4502.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140507160541.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.3abb9c4502.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1399507292.44042.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I bought this 12v underwater floodlight from deal extreme, for the purpose of using
the housing & modifying it.
You could replace the glass lens with acrylic, & machine an o ring groove.
The back section unscrews & you may get away with just putting an oring in there.
The cable gland could be replaced with a blue globe cable gland if they have one
that fits a 12mm hole.
This model is substantially thick, unlike a similar one I bought.?
If you go on site & search under "12v flood light" you come up with lots of promising
options. It is a bit hit & miss though. There are some options with lens clamping
rings that bolt down, that would give the option of putting in longer bolts & a thicker
lense.
Hey if you order a bunch of them & they don't work out, you could sell them in your stores!
Alan

IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spotlight / Underwater Lamp - Silver

 
   IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spo...
I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here.  
View on www.dx.com Preview by Yahoo  


________________________________
 From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 


Thanks Emile,
?
I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>  
>Scott, 
>?
>I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv 
>?If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>?
>Regards, Emile
>?
>
>________________________________
> 
>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>Verzonden: dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>?
>Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or light housings?
>Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just need better housings.
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>?
>?
>?
>?
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 20:14:50 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 17:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seehund Aft Dive Tank
In-Reply-To: <1Wi9SH-2SgXgW0@fwd16.t-online.de>
References: <1399496173.95645.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <1Wi9SH-2SgXgW0@fwd16.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1399508090.30487.YahooMailNeo@web141504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Carsten,
?
Thank you that is particularly helpful, the "J" trap 
?
I think Vance's earlier suggestion of ending with a simple head and then?shaping the aft end holds up as the best way to proceed. I'll make the cone a soft tank, material and attachment choices now on the table.
?
Thanks!
?
Joe
On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 5:35 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
E-Mail Software 6.0

Hi Joe the Seehund has some quite 
funny system.?

01)?
No 
there is no double hull in the aft. 

02) Yes both dive tanks has the
vents on the 
aft and highest point for quick diving. From command "dive" to get
underwater 
was 10 seconds. 

03) The j trap is the?outlet
of the 
blow air line.?

The
Seehund 
surface the following way: 

Close vent vale, blow a little compress air to the blow out line, until the diesel snorckel surface.
Drive the 
diesel with the main e-motor as compressor and blow the dive tank with
this  gas 
complete. out. 

Another way was : (mostly use by the 
crew but more or less ilegal : Run the boat dynamicly to the surface ,
start the 
diesel and blow the tanks with the exhaust gas. 

Both ways were
developt 
to safe on compress storage gases. 

04) No idea. 

vbr 
Carsten

rkel via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> schrieb: 
As an example of my delving into this particular subject, I am
having a bit of trouble trying to understand the nature of the aft
diving tank (No.1)?on the original Seehund. Understanding this
well, is key to an appropriate attempt for a viable
facsimile.
>
>
>I've attached an image of where I'm
unclear. I suspect that the?uppermost?volume?of this tank
was encased in what looks like a double hull void, but I can not quite
confirm this. Also in question are the following with my analysis,
supposition or questioning.
>
>
>
>
>1)
Is this a double hull in this aft conical section??? (Raising
CB, lowering CG)
>2) Position of the vent
valve???? (Is this due to dive angle?)
>3) "J" trap nature of bottom of assembly in keel section of
tank???? (Anti-syphon?)
>4) Coiled hose assembly
in section view?? (completely at a loss
here?)
>
>
>Comment's and suggestions are sincerely
appreciated. What's on my mind is the temptation and?viability of
reproduction in reduced scale. Sea Hunter's lines are pleasing and close
to scale in section @ 36"OD for the hull, 24" for the CT/Sail assembly
and No. 14 pipe for the torpedo/battery pod assemblies. (Can get away
with No. 12 as well).
>
>
>Cliff's wonderful .xls
requires that I draw up an accurate model first in order to simulate
ballasting.
>
>
>Joe
>
>  ?

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 20:16:39 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 17:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1399501839.89749.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399501340.13959.YahooMailNeo@web120902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1399501839.89749.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399508199.12602.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
?
Gamma doesnt have a VBT does it?? Can you speak to the virtues of fine depth control without one?
?
What a beautiful boat!
?
Joe?
On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 6:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Alan,
Thank you, I am pleased with the outcome.? I do need to put a proper paint job on it still.? 
I guess it is time to start thinking about what is next to build.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/7/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 6:22 PM

Looks a really
nice boat sitting there in the water Hank.Here's your photo linkhttp://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
Alan
? ? ? ?  From: hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? To:
personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
? Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014
10:11 AM
? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no
subject)
? 

I just added pictures of my test dive to Gamma
restoration.? You can see Gamma has great freeboard,
and this is with 200 lbs to much ballast.? I am real
tired of subs being to light to sink, so I went the other
way and made it heavy.? I dove it then remove weight
about 5 times to get it just right.? In the end Gamma
was 10 lbs heavy.? Much easier to control descent with
the proper weight :-)
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing
list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


? 
? 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 20:31:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 17:31:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1399508199.12602.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399509067.16273.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Joe,
Thank you, 
Gamma does not have a VBT.  When I had Gamma at the correct weight (10 lbs heavy) it was easy peezy to hover, the trick is to control descent without hitting bottom.  That just takes practise, by the time I was out of air I pretty well had it.  This sub is so easy to operate, my friend was able to dive Gamma with a 2 min lesson.  I have to admit Vance was right and I was wrong.  VBT is a waste of time.  Also it is more fun to operate a sub without a VBT because you actually control it constantly until your at depth.

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/7/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 8:16 PM
 
 Hank,?Gamma
 doesnt have a VBT does it?? Can you speak to the
 virtues of fine depth control without
 one??What a beautiful
 boat!?Joe?
     On Wednesday, May 7,
 2014 6:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
     Alan,
 Thank you, I am pleased with the outcome.?
  I do need to put a proper paint job on it still.? 
 I guess it is time to start thinking about what
 is next to build.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Wed, 5/7/14, Alan James via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
  To:
 "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 6:22 PM
  
  Looks a really
  nice boat sitting there in the water
 Hank.Here's your photo
  linkhttp://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
  Alan
 ? ? ?
 ?  From: hank pronk via
 
 Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? To:
  personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
 ? Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014
  10:11 AM
 ? Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no
  subject)
 ?  
  
  I
 just added pictures of my test dive to Gamma
  restoration.? You can see Gamma has great
 freeboard,
  and this is with 200 lbs to much
 ballast.? I am
  real
  tired of subs being to light to sink,
 so I went the other
  way and made it
 heavy.? I dove it then remove weight
 
 about 5 times to get it just right.? In the end
 Gamma
  was 10 lbs heavy.? Much easier
 to control descent with
  the proper weight
 :-)
  Hank
 
 _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing
 
 list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
 ? 
 ?  
 
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
 
 _______________________________________________
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  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
       
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 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 21:22:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:22:22 -1000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
In-Reply-To: <1399481895.71303.YahooMailIosMobile@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399481895.71303.YahooMailIosMobile@web141503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0E315E3F78B448A8AD353291CA5C5287@LandNSeaPC>

Congrats Hank! I can?t wait for my special day to come. Lets see some pictures.

Rick

From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 6:58 AM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive

      Yes, quite historic! Yours is a boat featured in the Busby text.

      Congratulation, well done, and may you enjoy many adventures!

      Joe

      Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
To: <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive 
Sent: Wed, May 7, 2014 12:48:33 PM 


      Hi Hank,
      Congratulations on Gamma's first dive in a long time.  Lots of folks will be eager to see pictures of such an historic event and hear the tale.
      Jim

      In a message dated 5/6/2014 6:11:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
        Hi Alan,
        We took lots of pictures, I am trying to figure out this stupid windows 8.1 :-) I will post them when my wife takes pitty on me and helps me. 
        I must say, and I am sure Scott will agree, I will never get over the feeling that depth means nothing in a sub.  One minute your looking at the surface the next your 50 feet down looking at weeds and fish, and it feels the same.  Very neat feeling.
        Hank
        --------------------------------------------
        On Tue, 5/6/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

        Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
        To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
        Received: Tuesday, May 6, 2014, 6:53 PM

        Well done
        Hank,that's
        submarine no 5 or 6 ??. Look forward to some
        pictures.Alan
               
          From: hank pronk via
        Personal_Submersibles
        <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
          To:
        personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
          Sent:
        Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:07 AM
          Subject:
        [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma first dive
            
        Today I took Gamma to Premier Lake and did several
        dives.  I reached 50 feet on the second dive and my
        employee took it out for a 20 foot dive.  
        The hatch was leaking on the first dive until I got down to
        20 feet or so.  Never leaked after that.  No other
        leaks at all.
        ACQ's are amazing and clear as a bell.  I hit the
        bottom a bunch of times until I figured it out.  
        The rudder is
          very effective and the sub is quite speedy going forward
        and poor in reverse.  Acceleration is modest but it
        gets going quite well.
        The launch cart worked quite well but was a bit problematic
        because it floats :-) 
        I have a small noise to trace from the magnetic drive
        coupler area.
        All in all a success 
        Hank 
        _______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 21:26:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2014 20:26:13 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater intervention
Message-ID: <dclh1s9a16td75e6wbri1r17.1399512321887@email.android.com>

Does anyone know when the next under water intervention will be? Katy and I would like to go.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 21:32:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2014 20:32:53 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] VBT
Message-ID: <4das3nvykrqhdcfoqw3vjrtw.1399512731087@email.android.com>

Does anyone know the positive boyancy a empty K-350 VBT provides?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 22:05:32 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:05:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma buoyancy
Message-ID: <49afc.934855.409c406c@aol.com>

Hank,
 
That pic of Gamma by the dock makes me drool.   Absolutely beautiful!
 
If I understand correctly, you loaded ballast so that when  your MBTs are 
fully flooded, you're 10 lb negative.  What was your  technique for arresting 
your sink rate and hovering?  About how many feet  above your target depth 
did you initiate "stop sink?"  Do you know  what your sink rate was at -10 
lb?
 
Cheers,
Jim T. 
 
 
In a message dated 5/7/2014 7:31:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Hi  Joe,
Thank you, 
Gamma does not have a VBT.  When I had Gamma at  the correct weight (10 lbs 
heavy) it was easy peezy to hover, the trick is to  control descent without 
hitting bottom.  That just takes practise, by the  time I was out of air I 
pretty well had it.  This sub is so easy to  operate, my friend was able to 
dive Gamma with a 2 min lesson.  I have to  admit Vance was right and I was 
wrong.  VBT is a waste of time.   Also it is more fun to operate a sub 
without a VBT because you actually  control it constantly until your at  depth.

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/7/14,  Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
To: "Personal  Submersibles General Discussion"  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014,  8:16 PM

Hank, Gamma
doesnt have a VBT does it?  Can you  speak to the
virtues of fine depth control without
one? What a  beautiful
boat! Joe 
On Wednesday, May  7,
2014 6:33 PM, hank pronk via  Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:
Alan,
Thank you, I am pleased with the  outcome. 
I do need to put a proper paint job on it  still.  
I guess it is time to start thinking about what
is next to  build.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed,  5/7/14, Alan James via
Personal_Submersibles  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

Subject:  Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
To:
"Personal Submersibles  General Discussion" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 6:22 PM

Looks a  really
nice boat sitting there in the water
Hank.Here's your  photo
linkhttp://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
Alan

From: hank pronk  via

Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To:
personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Thursday, May 8,  2014
10:11 AM
Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] (no
subject)


I
just added pictures of my  test dive to Gamma
restoration.  You can see Gamma has  great
freeboard,
and this is with 200 lbs to  much
ballast.  I am
real
tired of subs being to  light to sink,
so I went the other
way and made  it
heavy.  I dove it then remove weight

about 5 times to get it  just right.  In the end
Gamma
was 10 lbs heavy.  Much  easier
to control descent with
the proper weight
:-)
Hank

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing

list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May  7 22:28:24 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 19:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma buoyancy
In-Reply-To: <49afc.934855.409c406c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399516104.55535.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jim,
Thank you,
When I flood my mbt's I stop venting when water is just over the hatch window.  It is sinking at that stage, very slowly.  As I sink I just give a shot of air to compensate for the bubble compressing.  I like to sink ass heavy so I do all my control with the front mbt.  When the bottom comes in sight I give a good squirt  of air and it stops before hitting the bottom, not always mind you.  That is where practise comes in. Also as the air supply diminishes, the squirt needs to be longer because Gamma has no regulator. To hover is easier if you hit the bottom, you just keep giving tiny shots of air until she lifts off the bottom.  That makes a mess of the visibility though.  I have no idea what the sink rate was, I was having to much fun trying everything out to notice.
Hank
On Wed, 5/7/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma buoyancy
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 10:05 PM
 
 
 
  
  
 
 Hank,
 ?
 That pic of Gamma by the dock
 makes me drool.? 
 Absolutely beautiful!
 ?
 If I understand correctly, you loaded
 ballast so that when 
 your MBTs are fully flooded, you're 10 lb
 negative.? What was your 
 technique for arresting your sink rate and hovering??
 About how many feet 
 above your target depth?did you initiate "stop
 sink?"? Do you know 
 what your sink rate was at -10 lb?
 ?
 Cheers,
 Jim T.?
 ?
 
 In a message dated 5/7/2014 7:31:43 P.M. Central
 Daylight Time, 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
 Hi 
   Joe,
 Thank you, 
 Gamma does not have a VBT.? When I had Gamma at 
   the correct weight (10 lbs heavy) it was easy peezy to
 hover, the trick is to 
   control descent without hitting bottom.? That just
 takes practise, by the 
   time I was out of air I pretty well had it.? This sub
 is so easy to 
   operate, my friend was able to dive Gamma with a 2 min
 lesson.? I have to 
   admit Vance was right and I was wrong.? VBT is a
 waste of time.? 
   Also it is more fun to operate a sub without a VBT because
 you actually 
   control it constantly until your at 
   depth.
 
 --------------------------------------------
 On Wed, 5/7/14, 
   Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
 To: "Personal 
   Submersibles General Discussion" 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 
   8:16 PM
 
 Hank,?Gamma
 doesnt have a VBT does it?? Can you 
   speak to the
 virtues of fine depth control without
 one??What a 
   beautiful
 boat!?Joe?
 ? ?? On Wednesday, May 
   7,
 2014 6:33 PM, hank pronk via 
   Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   wrote:
 ? ?? Alan,
 Thank you, I am pleased with the 
   outcome.?
 ? I do need to put a proper paint job on it 
   still.? 
 I guess it is time to start thinking about what
 is next to 
   build.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Wed, 
   5/7/14, Alan James via
 Personal_Submersibles 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 ? Subject: 
   Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject)
 ? To:
 "Personal Submersibles 
   General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
   Received: Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 6:22 PM
 ? 
 ? Looks a 
   really
 ? nice boat sitting there in the water
 Hank.Here's your 
   photo
 ? 
  
 linkhttp://www.psubs.org/projects/1327775450/gammarestoration/
 ? 
   Alan
 ? ? ?
 ?? From: hank pronk 
   via
 
 Personal_Submersibles
 ? 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? To:
 ? 
   personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
 ? Sent: Thursday, May 8, 
   2014
 ? 10:11 AM
 ? Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no
 ? 
   subject)
 ?? 
 ? 
 ? I
 just added pictures of my 
   test dive to Gamma
 ? restoration.? You can see Gamma has 
   great
 freeboard,
 ? and this is with 200 lbs to 
   much
 ballast.? I am
 ? real
 ? tired of subs being to 
   light to sink,
 so I went the other
 ? way and made 
   it
 heavy.? I dove it then remove weight
 
 about 5 times to get it 
   just right.? In the end
 Gamma
 ? was 10 lbs heavy.? Much 
   easier
 to control descent with
 ? the proper weight
 :-)
 ? 
   Hank
 
 _______________________________________________
 ? 
   Personal_Submersibles mailing
 
 list
 ? 
   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
  
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
   
 ? 
 ? 
 ?? 
 
 ? -----Inline Attachment 
   Follows-----
 ? 
   
 
 _______________________________________________
 ? 
   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? 
   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
  
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
   
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 ? 
   ? ?? 
 -----Inline Attachment 
   Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May  8 06:22:04 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 03:22:04 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater intervention
In-Reply-To: <dclh1s9a16td75e6wbri1r17.1399512321887@email.android.com>
References: <dclh1s9a16td75e6wbri1r17.1399512321887@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEGmQP9ML2upeLW_dVXEuyK_W-Q9rWLgfo5O6hBLo07p1A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott, Its February 10-12 2015 for the UI convention.


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:26 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Does anyone know when the next under water intervention will be? Katy and
> I would like to go.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May  8 08:59:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 07:59:52 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater intervention
Message-ID: <woh0oimh1cfcsrvijgmlv7cr.1399553954526@email.android.com>

David,
Where is it at? I know last one was in New Orleans.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneDavid Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi Scott, Its February 10-12 2015 for the UI convention.


Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:26 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Does anyone know when the next under water intervention will be? Katy and I would like to go.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May  8 09:44:54 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 09:44:54 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater intervention
In-Reply-To: <woh0oimh1cfcsrvijgmlv7cr.1399553954526@email.android.com>
References: <woh0oimh1cfcsrvijgmlv7cr.1399553954526@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnKfFTitdeaPVyXsoLu+GLSio+9hYhB2VOgDWU=Qk8yesA@mail.gmail.com>

Scott, I've never been to an Underwater Intervention myself, but I'd really
like to go. I believe they are always down in New Orleans. Here is their
site: http://www.underwaterintervention.com/index.php?id=5  If you and Katy
are thinking about attending next year let me know and I'll come! ~ Douglas
S.


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:59 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> David,
> Where is it at? I know last one was in New Orleans.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
> Hi Scott, Its February 10-12 2015 for the UI convention.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
>
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:26 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know when the next under water intervention will be? Katy and
>> I would like to go.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May  8 11:43:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 08:43:35 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater intervention
Message-ID: <20140508084335.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e81a8e28db.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May  8 12:35:51 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 09:35:51 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater intervention
In-Reply-To: <woh0oimh1cfcsrvijgmlv7cr.1399553954526@email.android.com>
References: <woh0oimh1cfcsrvijgmlv7cr.1399553954526@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEHSAQ8S1mZo1hwPbSboK4CPqbmAg8mVkG8a4pR_n+nuUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,
New Orleans, according to the add I saw on Ocean News mag I was reading
last night.

Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 5:59 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> David,
> Where is it at? I know last one was in New Orleans.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
> Hi Scott, Its February 10-12 2015 for the UI convention.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
>
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:26 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know when the next under water intervention will be? Katy and
>> I would like to go.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May  8 16:26:09 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 13:26:09 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Underwater intervention
Message-ID: <20140508132608.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.228963262a.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 11:36:44 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 17:36:44 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Hi, 

 

The Drebbel was featured in a internet commercial for a soda drink.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8

If you don't understand Dutch, just mute..

 

Regards, Emile

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 11:42:39 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 11:42:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <8D139B47109D996-B9C-CAF6@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>

I notice that pretty girls giggle in a common language.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 11:37 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial



Hi, 
 
The Drebbel was featured in a internet commercial fora soda drink.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8
If you don?t understand Dutch, just mute..
 
Regards, Emile


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 12:01:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: 09 May 2014 16:01 GMT
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
In-Reply-To: <8D139B47109D996-B9C-CAF6@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <8D139B47109D996-B9C-CAF6@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1WinEf-0SubpI0@fwd09.t-online.de>

Which girl? I have seen only a submarine..  

vbr carsten

"via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> schrieb: 
I notice that pretty girls giggle in a common language. 
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 11:37 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial


Hi, 

The Drebbel was featured in a internet commercial for a soda drink.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8
If you dont understand Dutch, just mute..

Regards, Emile
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 12:22:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 12:22:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
In-Reply-To: <1WinEf-0SubpI0@fwd09.t-online.de>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <8D139B47109D996-B9C-CAF6@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
 <1WinEf-0SubpI0@fwd09.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <8D139BA0C5186CC-B9C-D120@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>

Poor Carsten. You need to get away from the office more.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: ""=?utf-8?Q?\"Carsten_Standfu=C3=9F_\?=
 =?utf-8?Q?"_via_Personal=5FSubmer?=
 =?utf-8?Q?sibles?=" <personal_submersibles"@psubs.org
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial


Which girl? I have seen only a submarine..  

vbr carsten

"via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>schrieb:
I notice that pretty girls giggle in acommon language.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 11:37 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial


  

Hi, 
 
The Drebbel was featured ina internet commercial fora soda drink.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8
If you dont understandDutch, just mute..
 
Regards, Emile


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 12:34:46 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 12:34:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
Message-ID: <67f6f.b4efc20.409e5da5@aol.com>

Carsten, better check your CO2 reading and  grab the O2 mask.
 
 
In a message dated 5/9/2014 11:02:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Which girl? I have seen only a  submarine..  

vbr carsten 

"via  Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> schrieb:  
I notice that pretty girls giggle in a common  language.  
Vance


-----Original  Message-----
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles  General Discussion' 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri,  May 9, 2014 11:37 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial

  
 
 
Hi, 
 
The Drebbel was featured in a  internet commercial for a soda drink.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8
If you dont understand Dutch,  just mute..
 
Regards,  Emile




_______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 12:49:38 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 12:49:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pic test
Message-ID: <688a1.da3d39b.409e6122@aol.com>

Testing pic posting from AOL, so I picked an old one of  Gamma.
Jim T.  
    

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 12:54:23 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 12:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test with attachment
Message-ID: <68b67.bf4cba3.409e623f@aol.com>

There have been some problems with other pic attachments going  through, so 
I'm testing on a different pic.
JT
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 13:41:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 13:41:29 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test with attachment
In-Reply-To: <68b67.bf4cba3.409e623f@aol.com>
References: <68b67.bf4cba3.409e623f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4C23F83B-DC28-42CD-A3AE-3BDA956F8967@AOL.com>

Got this one, Jim.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> There have been some problems with other pic attachments going through, so I'm testing on a different pic.
> JT
> <ATLANTIS_SUB St Thomas.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 13:42:20 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 13:42:20 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pic test
In-Reply-To: <688a1.da3d39b.409e6122@aol.com>
References: <688a1.da3d39b.409e6122@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BB9734D8-1F14-4D04-810C-37782F64339D@AOL.com>

This one, too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2014, at 12:49 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Testing pic posting from AOL, so I picked an old one of Gamma.
> Jim T.
> <NektonGamma4.jpg> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 13:59:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 19:59:59 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <20140507160541.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.3abb9c4502.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAcrukz+Jy10y82+qTrt0M+wEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Scott,

 

Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..

 

I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .

 <http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/>
http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/

 

Regards, Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights

 

Thanks Emile,

 

I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for the
link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.

 

Thanks,

Scott Waters 

 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
< <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
< <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott, 

 

I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to purchase
lampheads for technical scuba diving.

 <http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv 

 If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.

 

Regards, Emile

 


  _____  


Van: Personal_Submersibles [
<mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via
Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
Aan:  <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights

 

Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or
light housings?

Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just
need better housings.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone


  _____  


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 14:02:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 14:02:59 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
In-Reply-To: <8D139BA0C5186CC-B9C-D120@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <8D139B47109D996-B9C-CAF6@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
 <1WinEf-0SubpI0@fwd09.t-online.de>
 <8D139BA0C5186CC-B9C-D120@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGwoFYg18NWiAY_bFdDCGPG-AXfdwEh82t_m-pkFLNM60g@mail.gmail.com>

I think it is a good reason to build a 5 person sub...



On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:22 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Poor Carsten. You need to get away from the office more.
> Vance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ""=?utf-8?Q?\"Carsten_Standfu=C3=9F_\?=
> =?utf-8?Q?"_via_Personal=5FSubmer?=
> =?utf-8?Q?sibles?=" <personal_submersibles"@psubs.org
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 12:02 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
>
>  Which girl? I have seen only a submarine..
>
> vbr carsten
>
> "via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> schrieb:
>
> I notice that pretty girls giggle in a common language.
> Vance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 11:37 am
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
>
>   Hi,
>
> The Drebbel was featured in a internet commercial for a soda drink.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8
> If you dont understand Dutch, just mute..
>
> Regards, Emile
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 15:18:28 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 14:18:28 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
Message-ID: <9398laucfue54knrosfdanpj.1399663088895@email.android.com>

Thanks Emile!
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneEmile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott,
?
Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
?
I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
?
Regards, Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
?
Thanks Emile,
?
I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott,
?
I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv
?If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
?
Regards, Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
?
Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or light housings?
Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just need better housings.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 15:34:41 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 15:34:41 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test with attachment
In-Reply-To: <68b67.bf4cba3.409e623f@aol.com>
References: <68b67.bf4cba3.409e623f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BEAFFF42-DBC2-4963-A96D-9E63C23C49AB@yahoo.com>

Jim

Anything over 25mb total, will not be delivered.

I've had to downsize on occasion.

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> There have been some problems with other pic attachments going through, so I'm testing on a different pic.
> JT
> <ATLANTIS_SUB St Thomas.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 16:23:57 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 16:23:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
Message-ID: <556b6.28b4a2c6.409e935d@aol.com>

All,
Below is a war-ready PC-12 headed down into the  dark-wet-cold. It might 
even be me in the conning tower, as I had 04 and/or 05  (depending on 
assignment) for a season and worked Frigg pretty often. I can tell  it's one of the 
later boats because the manipulators are mounted low and there  are small 
pipe rails around the battery pod hatch clamps which we didn't do on  the 
earlier boats.
Vance
 
    

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 17:21:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 14:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
In-Reply-To: <556b6.28b4a2c6.409e935d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399670473.33606.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Vance,<br/><br/>Where, when, how far down, and what would you do there once you got down?<br/><br/>Looks like you could get quite a rough ride launching and recovery in those conditions.<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 17:52:02 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 17:52:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
In-Reply-To: <1399670473.33606.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399670473.33606.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D139E80B1B1FF8-2788-1011E@webmail-m204.sysops.aol.com>

Joe,


That's the gas flare for the Frigg Field in the background, which was in the North Sea oil patch somewhere between the Shetland Islands and the halfway point to Norway. Water depths on that side ran in the 350 to 450 foot range. Sometimes a little less, but rarely more until you got closer to Scandihoovia.


We did all the initial bottom surveys prior to platform deliveries, then made lots of installation inspections, insurance videos, engineering verifications, and so on. Plus diver lockout support for pipeline hook-ups and like that. Later on, we went back to clear all the exploratory well heads with explosives, which was somewhere between tedious and oh shit, mostly. 


The motion you see or suspect is a little exaggerated, but not unexpected at that point in the launch. We used two pairs of fifty-thousand pound constant tension winches to control side motion and the leverage is at its worst way out at the drop point. By the way, anyone know how I can tell this is a launch?


Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12




Vance,

Where, when, how far down, and what would you do there once you got down?

Looks like you could get quite a rough ride launching and recovery in those conditions.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

            
                
                    
                    
                        
                            
                                                            From:                                                        via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                            
                                                            To:                                                         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;                                                                                                     
                                                            Subject:                                                        [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12                            
                                                            Sent:                                                        Fri, May 9, 2014 8:23:57 PM                            
                        
                            
                            
                                
                                    
                                        
All,
Below is a war-ready PC-12 headed down into the dark-wet-cold. It might even be me in the conning tower, as I had 04 and/or 05 (depending on assignment) for a season and worked Frigg pretty often. I can tell it's one of the later boats because the manipulators are mounted low and there are small pipe rails around the battery pod hatch clamps which we didn't do on the earlier boats.
Vance

  
  
    
 


 

                                    
                                
                            
                    
                
            

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 18:01:56 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 18:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test with attachment
In-Reply-To: <BEAFFF42-DBC2-4963-A96D-9E63C23C49AB@yahoo.com>
References: <68b67.bf4cba3.409e623f@aol.com>
 <BEAFFF42-DBC2-4963-A96D-9E63C23C49AB@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D139E96D378AB5-2788-10230@webmail-m204.sysops.aol.com>

Joe,
That looks to have been the problem. Jim was kind enough to wave his magic wand for me. Otherwise, the launch would have been aborted.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test with attachment



Jim


Anything over 25mb total, will not be delivered.


I've had to downsize on occasion.


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:



There have been some problems with other pic attachments going through, so I'm testing on a different pic.
JT


<ATLANTIS_SUB St Thomas.jpg>

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 18:03:23 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 18:03:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
Message-ID: <58a2e.7f40f08e.409eaaab@aol.com>

Vance,
I'm guessing because of where you're positioned in your little  red suit.  
Then, too, your bubble looks dry, clear, and clean, as does the  rest of the 
vessel.
JT
 
 
In a message dated 5/9/2014 4:52:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

By the way, anyone know how I can tell this is a  launch?
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 18:09:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 18:09:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
In-Reply-To: <58a2e.7f40f08e.409eaaab@aol.com>
References: <58a2e.7f40f08e.409eaaab@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8D139EA7F67ECB5-2788-102F1@webmail-m204.sysops.aol.com>

I didn't do little red suits. I did inside conning towers in flannel shirts. And you are right. The sub is still dry. The only splash is just at the tail end of the starboard battery pod. Notice that the main port has a secondary shield port over it. Most of the Perrys operating today and the three Hyco boats with big ports never use the secondary shield. Hyco never did, and the assorted re-builders never bothered. It was free-flooding but with restricted flow to protect the main port. And it would take a whale of a bump without breaking, which always seemed like a good idea to me.


Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12



Vance,
I'm guessing because of where you're positioned in your little red suit.  Then, too, your bubble looks dry, clear, and clean, as does the rest of the vessel.
JT
 

In a message dated 5/9/2014 4:52:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
By the way, anyone know how I can tell this is a   launch?


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 18:51:57 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 15:51:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Non-uniform cone
Message-ID: <1399675917.26889.YahooMailNeo@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

After reading ABS, I think you can do this, but how does one calculate a non-uniform but still developable cone transition for 250' ?

Why you ask? Trying to get the forward observer as forward as possible while keeping within a tapering?and enclosed?bow shape. Looks like viewing would have to be torpedo tube like ala "Kraka".

Cone is to left, unrolled surface to right.

Joe
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 18:54:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 15:54:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
In-Reply-To: <8D139E80B1B1FF8-2788-1011E@webmail-m204.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1399670473.33606.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D139E80B1B1FF8-2788-1011E@webmail-m204.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399676047.61698.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Very cool Vance! Nice things you've done!

I joined the Navy for some adventure, ...went to Tennessee and Texas!

Joe
On Friday, May 9, 2014 5:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Joe, 

 
That's the gas flare for the Frigg Field in the background, which was in the North Sea oil patch somewhere between the Shetland Islands and the halfway point to Norway. Water depths on that side ran in the 350 to 450 foot range. Sometimes a little less, but rarely more until you got closer to Scandihoovia. 
 
We did all the initial bottom surveys prior to platform deliveries, then made lots of installation inspections, insurance videos, engineering verifications, and so on. Plus diver lockout support for pipeline hook-ups and like that. Later on, we went back to clear all the exploratory well heads with explosives, which was somewhere between tedious and oh shit, mostly.?

 
The motion you see or suspect is a little exaggerated, but not unexpected at that point in the launch. We used two pairs of fifty-thousand pound constant tension winches to control side motion and the leverage is at its worst way out at the drop point. By the way, anyone know how I can tell this is a launch? 
 
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12


Vance,

Where, when, how far down, and what would you do there once you got down?

Looks like you could get quite a rough ride launching and recovery in those conditions.

Joe

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad  



________________________________
 From:  via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
To:  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12 
Sent:  Fri, May 9, 2014 8:23:57 PM 
 

All, 
Below is a?war-ready PC-12 headed down into the 
dark-wet-cold. It might even be me in the conning tower, as I had 04 and/or 05 
(depending on assignment) for a season and worked Frigg pretty often. I can tell 
it's one of the later boats because the manipulators are mounted low and there 
are small pipe rails around the battery pod hatch clamps which we didn't do on 
the earlier boats. 
Vance    
       
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles      

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 19:23:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 19:23:13 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
In-Reply-To: <1399676047.61698.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399670473.33606.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D139E80B1B1FF8-2788-1011E@webmail-m204.sysops.aol.com>
 <1399676047.61698.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B1F26D8D-EFD1-4954-9090-3EBCDD09F713@AOL.com>

I came fromTennessee and ended up in Texas (with Hyco. Does that count?

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2014, at 6:54 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Very cool Vance! Nice things you've done!
> 
> I joined the Navy for some adventure, ...went to Tennessee and Texas!
> 
> Joe
> On Friday, May 9, 2014 5:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Joe,
> 
> That's the gas flare for the Frigg Field in the background, which was in the North Sea oil patch somewhere between the Shetland Islands and the halfway point to Norway. Water depths on that side ran in the 350 to 450 foot range. Sometimes a little less, but rarely more until you got closer to Scandihoovia.
> 
> We did all the initial bottom surveys prior to platform deliveries, then made lots of installation inspections, insurance videos, engineering verifications, and so on. Plus diver lockout support for pipeline hook-ups and like that. Later on, we went back to clear all the exploratory well heads with explosives, which was somewhere between tedious and oh shit, mostly. 
> 
> The motion you see or suspect is a little exaggerated, but not unexpected at that point in the launch. We used two pairs of fifty-thousand pound constant tension winches to control side motion and the leverage is at its worst way out at the drop point. By the way, anyone know how I can tell this is a launch?
> 
> Vance
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 5:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
> 
> Vance,
> 
> Where, when, how far down, and what would you do there once you got down?
> 
> Looks like you could get quite a rough ride launching and recovery in those conditions.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
> 
> From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
> To: <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12 
> Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 8:23:57 PM 
> 
> All,
> Below is a war-ready PC-12 headed down into the dark-wet-cold. It might even be me in the conning tower, as I had 04 and/or 05 (depending on assignment) for a season and worked Frigg pretty often. I can tell it's one of the later boats because the manipulators are mounted low and there are small pipe rails around the battery pod hatch clamps which we didn't do on the earlier boats.
> Vance
>   
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 19:25:19 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 19:25:19 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
In-Reply-To: <1399676047.61698.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399670473.33606.YahooMailIosMobile@web141506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <8D139E80B1B1FF8-2788-1011E@webmail-m204.sysops.aol.com>
 <1399676047.61698.YahooMailNeo@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <017742C9-3436-4C8E-B604-060938B2E489@AOL.com>

As a side note, I just this week started writing a book about myis-adventures. If I live long enough to finish it, you guys will be the first to know.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2014, at 6:54 PM, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Very cool Vance! Nice things you've done!
> 
> I joined the Navy for some adventure, ...went to Tennessee and Texas!
> 
> Joe
> On Friday, May 9, 2014 5:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Joe,
> 
> That's the gas flare for the Frigg Field in the background, which was in the North Sea oil patch somewhere between the Shetland Islands and the halfway point to Norway. Water depths on that side ran in the 350 to 450 foot range. Sometimes a little less, but rarely more until you got closer to Scandihoovia.
> 
> We did all the initial bottom surveys prior to platform deliveries, then made lots of installation inspections, insurance videos, engineering verifications, and so on. Plus diver lockout support for pipeline hook-ups and like that. Later on, we went back to clear all the exploratory well heads with explosives, which was somewhere between tedious and oh shit, mostly. 
> 
> The motion you see or suspect is a little exaggerated, but not unexpected at that point in the launch. We used two pairs of fifty-thousand pound constant tension winches to control side motion and the leverage is at its worst way out at the drop point. By the way, anyone know how I can tell this is a launch?
> 
> Vance
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 5:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12
> 
> Vance,
> 
> Where, when, how far down, and what would you do there once you got down?
> 
> Looks like you could get quite a rough ride launching and recovery in those conditions.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
> 
> From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
> To: <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC-12 
> Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 8:23:57 PM 
> 
> All,
> Below is a war-ready PC-12 headed down into the dark-wet-cold. It might even be me in the conning tower, as I had 04 and/or 05 (depending on assignment) for a season and worked Frigg pretty often. I can tell it's one of the later boats because the manipulators are mounted low and there are small pipe rails around the battery pod hatch clamps which we didn't do on the earlier boats.
> Vance
>   
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 19:23:43 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 16:23:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
In-Reply-To: <1WinEf-0SubpI0@fwd09.t-online.de>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
 <8D139B47109D996-B9C-CAF6@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com>
 <1WinEf-0SubpI0@fwd09.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <1399677823.61698.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I did a dive with Emile, & there was a pretty girl on board.
In America they would call his submarine a ?"Babe Magnet".
?Emile seems to be developing in to a Dutch rock star.
Alan




________________________________
 From: "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
 


E-Mail Software 6.0
Which girl? I have seen only a 
submarine..? 

vbr carsten 


"via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
schrieb: 
I notice that pretty girls giggle in a
common language. 
>Vance
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 11:37 am
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
>
>
> 
>Hi, 
>?
>The Drebbel was featured in
a internet commercial for
a soda drink.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8
>If you dont understand
Dutch, just mute..
>?
>Regards, Emile
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May  9 19:37:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 19:37:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Book
Message-ID: <5ae87.6ca0aff8.409ec0ab@aol.com>

Vance, you'd better live to finish it or I'll do it myself and  make up 
whatever I want to.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/9/2014 6:25:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

As a  side note, I just this week started writing a book about 
myis-adventures. If I  live long enough to finish it, you guys will be the first to  
know.

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 08:25:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 08:25:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pic size limit
Message-ID: <11f1a.42d60167.409f74a9@aol.com>

Joe,
The pic that would not go through was 551 KB.  I tried sending it  again to 
the list and it didn't come through to my in-box.  The one of  Gamma that 
did go through was 191 KB.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/9/2014 2:35:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Jim


Anything over 25mb total, will not be delivered.


I've had to downsize on occasion.


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >  wrote:



 
There have been some problems with other pic attachments  going through, so 
I'm testing on a different pic.
JT



<ATLANTIS_SUB St Thomas.jpg>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 08:31:03 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 05:31:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pic size limit
In-Reply-To: <11f1a.42d60167.409f74a9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399725063.74658.YahooMailIosMobile@web141502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Jim,<br/><br/>There may or may not be file type issues as well. I did a quick search of yahoos limitations and got conflicting info.<br/><br/>Joe<a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 08:33:50 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 08:33:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pic size limit
Message-ID: <1218d.5dc1228b.409f76ae@aol.com>

Joe,
In this case they were both JPEG images.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/10/2014 7:31:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Jim,

There may or may not be file type issues as  well. I did a quick search of 
yahoos limitations and got conflicting  info.

Joe_

Sent from Yahoo  Mail for iPad_ (http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS)  
 


  
____________________________________
 From: via Personal_Submersibles  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
To:  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pic size limit  
Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014  12:25:13 PM 


Joe,
The pic that would not go through was 551 KB.  I tried  sending it again to 
the list and it didn't come through to my  in-box.  The one of Gamma that 
did go through was 191  KB.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/9/2014 2:35:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Jim


Anything over 25mb total, will not be delivered.


I've had to downsize on occasion.


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On May 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) >  wrote:




There have been some problems with other pic  attachments going through, so 
I'm testing on a different  pic.
JT



<ATLANTIS_SUB St Thomas.jpg>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (javascript:return) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 08:47:34 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 08:47:34 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pic size limit
In-Reply-To: <1218d.5dc1228b.409f76ae@aol.com>
References: <1218d.5dc1228b.409f76ae@aol.com>
Message-ID: <536E1FE6.2000606@psubs.org>


Maximum message size through PSUBS mailing list is 600kb which includes 
the photo and any text already in the message.  If you want to post a 
larger size photo, create a PSUBS photo album for that purpose under 
your account name or add it to a photo album under your submarine name 
at SUBDB.INFO.  Any submarine you locate which is not already in the 
SUBDB.INFO database should be added.  Just fill out the form under 
"Support" and submit it so we can keep that database up to date.

Eventually all submarines will be moved over to SUBDB.INFO and psubs 
photo albums will be limited to non-submarine photos.


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 09:22:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 09:22:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
Message-ID: <1310d.3c1281ee.409f821c@aol.com>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 09:32:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 09:32:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
Message-ID: <13463.699646a1.409f8465@aol.com>

I tried attaching the PC-12 pic to an email without typing  anything in the 
body.  At 551 KB it apparently was still to big to go  through.  I cropped 
the pic to 395 KB and tried again.  This time it  made it.  Now you can open 
the attachment and get a better view, zoom in  for detail, etc.  It's much 
more clear than the imbedded image I sent  earlier.
Jim
 
 

In a message dated 5/10/2014 8:24:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

 


_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 09:38:03 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 09:38:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
In-Reply-To: <1310d.3c1281ee.409f821c@aol.com>
References: <1310d.3c1281ee.409f821c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8D13A6C336F552D-12B4-14EF9@webmail-m244.sysops.aol.com>

Thanks Jim.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 9:24 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment



 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 10:37:46 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 07:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
In-Reply-To: <8D13A6C336F552D-12B4-14EF9@webmail-m244.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399732666.69967.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Wow, million dollar shot!
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/10/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 9:38 AM
 
 Thanks
 Jim.
 Vance
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original
 Message-----
 
 From: via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 To: personal_submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 9:24 am
 
 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 10:42:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 10:42:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
In-Reply-To: <1399732666.69967.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399732666.69967.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D13A753F5DE6B7-12B4-155C2@webmail-m244.sysops.aol.com>

Hank,
Timing is all!!!
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment


Wow, million dollar shot!
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/10/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 9:38 AM
 
 Thanks
 Jim.
 Vance
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original
 Message-----
 
 From: via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 To: personal_submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 9:24 am
 
 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 12:24:58 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 12:24:58 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkevbLlVpTkykUhgPE9SktwEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjn+fUpGw-ZFCgojzE8pJFh14adTb_VGHo71KWJKHGdiiWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nice work Emile. I'll buy it!!! ~ Douglas S.


On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>  Hi,
>
>
>
> The Drebbel was featured in a internet commercial for a soda drink.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8
>
> If you don?t understand Dutch, just mute..
>
>
>
> Regards, Emile
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 13:12:24 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 10:12:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
In-Reply-To: <8D13A753F5DE6B7-12B4-155C2@webmail-m244.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1399741944.1766.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
That shot is so perfect, Timing or luck? :-)
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/10/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 10:42 AM
 
 Hank,
 Timing is all!!!
 
 Vance
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original
 Message-----
 
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 10:38 am
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Wow, million dollar shot!
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 5/10/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 9:38 AM
  
  Thanks
  Jim.
  Vance
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -----Original
  Message-----
  
  From: via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  To: personal_submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 9:24 am
  
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  ?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 13:20:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 10:20:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
Message-ID: <1399742433.77440.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I should not be allowed to own Gamma after my blunder.  I cam home from a hard day and was tired, I needed my trailer back from Gamma to move a machine for work the next day.  I pulled the trailer into the drive way with Gamma on it so it rolls nicely back into the shop.  I had the hatch open to vent it out and it does not fit under the door of the shop.  I broke the hatch off, luckily there was no damage to the hatch, just the hinge broke.  I am still sick about it.  
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 13:23:37 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 13:23:37 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
In-Reply-To: <1399741944.1766.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399741944.1766.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6BDCB0AE-F69A-4C58-A29B-CBA51BD60A11@AOL.com>

Likeostthings, a little of each coupled to skill with cameras.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2014, at 1:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Vance,
> That shot is so perfect, Timing or luck? :-)
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/10/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 10:42 AM
> 
> Hank,
> Timing is all!!!
> 
> Vance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original
> Message-----
> 
> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 10:38 am
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, million dollar shot!
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/10/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
>  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>  Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 9:38 AM
> 
>  Thanks
>  Jim.
>  Vance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  -----Original
>  Message-----
> 
>  From: via Personal_Submersibles
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
>  To: personal_submersibles
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
>  Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 9:24 am
> 
>  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Attachment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 13:25:40 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 13:25:40 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
In-Reply-To: <1399742433.77440.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399742433.77440.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAFEA246-6378-42AB-A8A3-67E2A555F287@AOL.com>

Okay, send it back. I'll refund your money, no questions asked.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 10, 2014, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> I should not be allowed to own Gamma after my blunder.  I cam home from a hard day and was tired, I needed my trailer back from Gamma to move a machine for work the next day.  I pulled the trailer into the drive way with Gamma on it so it rolls nicely back into the shop.  I had the hatch open to vent it out and it does not fit under the door of the shop.  I broke the hatch off, luckily there was no damage to the hatch, just the hinge broke.  I am still sick about it.  
> Hank
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 13:27:56 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
In-Reply-To: <DAFEA246-6378-42AB-A8A3-67E2A555F287@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <1399742876.54968.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Vance,
Double it and it is on its way, :-)  with hinges weld up.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/10/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 1:25 PM
 
 Okay, send it back. I'll refund your
 money, no questions asked.
 Vance
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 > On May 10, 2014, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > 
 > I should not be allowed to own Gamma after my
 blunder.? I cam home from a hard day and was tired, I
 needed my trailer back from Gamma to move a machine for work
 the next day.? I pulled the trailer into the drive way
 with Gamma on it so it rolls nicely back into the
 shop.? I had the hatch open to vent it out and it does
 not fit under the door of the shop.? I broke the hatch
 off, luckily there was no damage to the hatch, just the
 hinge broke.? I am still sick about it.? 
 > Hank
 > _______________________________________________
 > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 15:02:05 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 12:02:05 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
In-Reply-To: <1399742876.54968.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <DAFEA246-6378-42AB-A8A3-67E2A555F287@AOL.com>
 <1399742876.54968.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEH8Azr912A_jT6eigUbOSQRnJRXLMARAS2rUMHhNB-ZKw@mail.gmail.com>

Hank, You should always video record launch and recovery, even if its in
your driveway......

Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Vance,
> Double it and it is on its way, :-)  with hinges weld up.
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/10/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
>  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 1:25 PM
>
>  Okay, send it back. I'll refund your
>  money, no questions asked.
>  Vance
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  > On May 10, 2014, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via
>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>  >
>  > I should not be allowed to own Gamma after my
>  blunder.  I cam home from a hard day and was tired, I
>  needed my trailer back from Gamma to move a machine for work
>  the next day.  I pulled the trailer into the drive way
>  with Gamma on it so it rolls nicely back into the
>  shop.  I had the hatch open to vent it out and it does
>  not fit under the door of the shop.  I broke the hatch
>  off, luckily there was no damage to the hatch, just the
>  hinge broke.  I am still sick about it.
>  > Hank
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 15:21:02 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:21:02 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
In-Reply-To: <CAHHFyEH8Azr912A_jT6eigUbOSQRnJRXLMARAS2rUMHhNB-ZKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DAFEA246-6378-42AB-A8A3-67E2A555F287@AOL.com>
 <1399742876.54968.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <CAHHFyEH8Azr912A_jT6eigUbOSQRnJRXLMARAS2rUMHhNB-ZKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnJKq9W5tYe2De0ouAUR_RgeufmW0DXOuWDv0f7wNFhddw@mail.gmail.com>

Hahaha, true Dave! As for your accident Hank, don't feel bad. I myself have
done some pretty silly stuff in reverse : ) Glad to hear Gamma wasn't
damaged too severely. We live and learn. ~ Douglas S.


On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 3:02 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Hank, You should always video record launch and recovery, even if its in
> your driveway......
>
> Best Regards,
> David Colombo
>
> 804 College Ave
> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
> (707) 536-1424
> www.SeaQuestor.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Vance,
>> Double it and it is on its way, :-)  with hinges weld up.
>> Hank
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Sat, 5/10/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
>>  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>  Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 1:25 PM
>>
>>  Okay, send it back. I'll refund your
>>  money, no questions asked.
>>  Vance
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>  > On May 10, 2014, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via
>>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>  wrote:
>>  >
>>  > I should not be allowed to own Gamma after my
>>  blunder.  I cam home from a hard day and was tired, I
>>  needed my trailer back from Gamma to move a machine for work
>>  the next day.  I pulled the trailer into the drive way
>>  with Gamma on it so it rolls nicely back into the
>>  shop.  I had the hatch open to vent it out and it does
>>  not fit under the door of the shop.  I broke the hatch
>>  off, luckily there was no damage to the hatch, just the
>>  hinge broke.  I am still sick about it.
>>  > Hank
>>  > _______________________________________________
>>  > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>  > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>  > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 15:30:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 21:30:59 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial
In-Reply-To: <1399677823.61698.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAFIHII/p12k6w1FZ3RhGnJAEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Hi Alan,

 

I will pass the compliment to Monique ;-)

 

Always thought that Ducati?s were babe magnets. But I am still no member of
the 7 fathoms down club


All for the cause of submersible promotion!

 

Groet, Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: zaterdag 10 mei 2014 1:24
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial

 

I did a dive with Emile, & there was a pretty girl on board.

In America they would call his submarine a  "Babe Magnet".

 Emile seems to be developing in to a Dutch rock star.

Alan

 

  _____  

From: "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial

 

Which girl? I have seen only a submarine..  

vbr carsten 


"via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> schrieb: 

I notice that pretty girls giggle in a common language. 

Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 9, 2014 11:37 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub in commercial

Hi, 

 

The Drebbel was featured in a internet commercial for a soda drink.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXcjJpQ7W8

If you dont understand Dutch, just mute..

 

Regards, Emile

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 16:29:30 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 16:29:30 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
In-Reply-To: <1399742433.77440.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399742433.77440.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <283E2511-3779-4FA7-9027-F63936DDD734@gmail.com>

Focus on the positive... You evidently have an exceptionally well constructed shop.



> On May 10, 2014, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> I should not be allowed to own Gamma after my blunder.  I cam home from a hard day and was tired, I needed my trailer back from Gamma to move a machine for work the next day.  I pulled the trailer into the drive way with Gamma on it so it rolls nicely back into the shop.  I had the hatch open to vent it out and it does not fit under the door of the shop.  I broke the hatch off, luckily there was no damage to the hatch, just the hinge broke.  I am still sick about it.  
> Hank
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 10 16:54:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
In-Reply-To: <283E2511-3779-4FA7-9027-F63936DDD734@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1399755247.18687.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I am lucky Gamma has small hinges
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/10/14, Private via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma damage
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 10, 2014, 4:29 PM
 
 Focus on the positive... You
 evidently have an exceptionally well constructed shop.
 
 
 
 > On May 10, 2014, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > 
 > I should not be allowed to own Gamma after my
 blunder.? I cam home from a hard day and was tired, I
 needed my trailer back from Gamma to move a machine for work
 the next day.? I pulled the trailer into the drive way
 with Gamma on it so it rolls nicely back into the
 shop.? I had the hatch open to vent it out and it does
 not fit under the door of the shop.? I broke the hatch
 off, luckily there was no damage to the hatch, just the
 hinge broke.? I am still sick about it.? 
 > Hank
 > _______________________________________________
 > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 11:56:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 08:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
Message-ID: <1399823796.97468.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Today I am doing a  one hr pressure test on a port for a psub member and I am a big chicken.  I hide inside Gamma and use the compressor to charge the chamber.  That makes Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 14:48:01 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 14:48:01 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399823796.97468.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399823796.97468.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjn+zu-W85i8OncqdHYP6RDCEOn2rDvOdJ8Vsp3nqcnchMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, the endless uses of a 1-atm submersible. A wonderful investment really.


On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 11:56 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Today I am doing a  one hr pressure test on a port for a psub member and I
> am a big chicken.  I hide inside Gamma and use the compressor to charge the
> chamber.  That makes Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
> Hank
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 17:02:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 14:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399823796.97468.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399823796.97468.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399842132.89580.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
can you fill the test chamber up with water first. Or put it in a bath of water.
I used to pressure test copper cylinders & we filled with water first.?
Compressed air can make one hell of an explosion.?
Alan




________________________________
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 

Today I am doing a? one hr pressure test on a port for a psub member and I am a big chicken.? I hide inside Gamma and use the compressor to charge the chamber.? That makes Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 18:55:18 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 17:55:18 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Test #2
Message-ID: <wbwv859vbeg5uc322r73dnc0.1399848103114@email.android.com>

Hey guys,
We took Trustworthy out for another test yesterday. This time the goals were:
*Deeper diving
*GPS/Sonar testing
*endurance of motor testing
*life support testing
*lights not leaking try two

We made three longer dives with a max of 43 feet and had a great time except viability was zero. The GPS worked flawlessly! The sonar is still having problems. I will continue to figure out the problem. Hopefully have it fixed by the West Virginia trip. I traked my max speed with the GPS at 3.2mph. After motoring for a solid mile I switched battery banks and my main motor cut out. Not sure the problem yet, but another thing to fix. Life support worked flawlessly! I originally thought I wanted to redo my life support system to a computer, but my simple design works way better than expeceted. I ran with only one scrubber and it had no problem keeping up with 2 people. I have decided to keep my system the way it is. As for my light housing leaking, yea... I am going to just make new hosuings after the West Virgina trip. All and all very sucsessful. These tests are important to work out the kinks.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 19:10:45 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 19:10:45 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Test #2
In-Reply-To: <wbwv859vbeg5uc322r73dnc0.1399848103114@email.android.com>
References: <wbwv859vbeg5uc322r73dnc0.1399848103114@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <B42ED199-172E-4614-AA60-53633336A5C5@gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

Concerning the sonar, I'd suggest looking at two possibilities. The first is a separate battery for the sonar, because if it goes off the same battery as everything else you may have a case of electrical noise - in particular if you have PWM speed controllers as those I think can be noisy. Second, look at whether the through-hull for the transducer could be picking up noise. Did you connect the cable shield (mesh) through one of the pins? That would be good.

For the lights, it sounds like it might be time to get a big tube of RTV do a temporary seal from the outside, then a proper fix after Summersville. 


Best,

Alec



> On May 11, 2014, at 6:55 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> We took Trustworthy out for another test yesterday. This time the goals were:
> *Deeper diving
> *GPS/Sonar testing
> *endurance of motor testing
> *life support testing
> *lights not leaking try two
> 
> We made three longer dives with a max of 43 feet and had a great time except viability was zero. The GPS worked flawlessly! The sonar is still having problems. I will continue to figure out the problem. Hopefully have it fixed by the West Virginia trip. I traked my max speed with the GPS at 3.2mph. After motoring for a solid mile I switched battery banks and my main motor cut out. Not sure the problem yet, but another thing to fix. Life support worked flawlessly! I originally thought I wanted to redo my life support system to a computer, but my simple design works way better than expeceted. I ran with only one scrubber and it had no problem keeping up with 2 people. I have decided to keep my system the way it is. As for my light housing leaking, yea... I am going to just make new hosuings after the West Virgina trip. All and all very sucsessful. These tests are important to work out the kinks.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 19:13:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 16:13:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399842132.89580.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399849995.9217.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
Yes I can fill it with water and that would be a good idea.  Or I can hide in my Nekton bomb shelter and peer out the port and watch :-)  
Hank 
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/11/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Sunday, May 11, 2014, 5:02 PM
 
 Hank,can
 you fill the test chamber up with water first. Or put it in
 a bath of water.I
 used to pressure test copper cylinders & we filled with
 water first.?Compressed
 air can make one hell of an
 explosion.?Alan
 
 
       
  From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To:
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014
 3:56 AM
  Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
    
 Today I am doing a? one hr pressure test on a port for
 a psub member and I am a big chicken.? I hide inside
 Gamma and use the compressor to charge the chamber.?
 That makes Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
 Hank
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 19:49:14 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 16:49:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Test #2
In-Reply-To: <wbwv859vbeg5uc322r73dnc0.1399848103114@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1399852154.42935.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
First dives are all about trouble shooting, that is normal.  Sounds like you are doing very well. Well done!
Hank 
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/11/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Test #2
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Sunday, May 11, 2014, 6:55 PM
 
 Hey
 guys,We took Trustworthy out for another test
 yesterday. This time the goals were:*Deeper
 diving*GPS/Sonar testing*endurance of
 motor testing*life support
 testing*lights not leaking try two
 We made three longer dives with a max of 43 feet
 and had a great time except viability was zero. The GPS
 worked flawlessly! The sonar is still having problems. I
 will continue to figure out the problem. Hopefully have it
 fixed by the West Virginia trip. I traked my max speed with
 the GPS at 3.2mph. After motoring for a solid mile I
 switched battery banks and my main motor cut out. Not sure
 the problem yet, but another thing to fix. Life support
 worked flawlessly! I originally thought I wanted to redo my
 life support system to a computer, but my simple design
 works way better than expeceted. I ran with only one
 scrubber and it had no problem keeping up with 2 people. I
 have decided to keep my system the way it is. As for my
 light housing leaking, yea... I am going to just make new
 hosuings after the West Virgina trip. All and all very
 sucsessful. These tests are important to work out the
 kinks.Thanks,Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 20:18:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 17:18:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399849995.9217.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399842132.89580.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1399849995.9217.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399853927.85961.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,?
when I was a young hooligan (about 2 years ago) I used to make chlorine bombs, which were pool chlorine
& coke in a large coke or fruit drink bottle. It was the loudest explosion on guy falkes night.
One guy I approached to blow a dome for me wouldn't & said if it burst in process, they would hear it a mile down the road.
Warn your wife.
Alan




________________________________
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 

Alan,
Yes I can fill it with water and that would be a good idea.? Or I can hide in my Nekton bomb shelter and peer out the port and watch :-)? 
Hank 
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/11/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Sunday, May 11, 2014, 5:02 PM

Hank,can
you fill the test chamber up with water first. Or put it in
a bath of water.I
used to pressure test copper cylinders & we filled with
water first.?Compressed
air can make one hell of an
explosion.?Alan


? ? ? 
? From: hank pronk via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? To:
personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
? Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014
3:56 AM
? Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
? ? 
Today I am doing a? one hr pressure test on a port for
a psub member and I am a big chicken.? I hide inside
Gamma and use the compressor to charge the chamber.?
That makes Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


? ? 
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 20:42:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 17:42:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399853927.85961.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399855355.23199.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
I did warn her, I made her stay at the far end of the house for a few minutes.  There is very little air volume but still enough to make me cautious.  This test was to 800 psi, my highest test so far for the chamber.  I was more concerned that the port might burst.  Probably worrying for nothing.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/11/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Sunday, May 11, 2014, 8:18 PM
 
 Hank,?when
 I was a young hooligan (about 2 years ago) I used to make
 chlorine bombs, which were pool chlorine&
 coke in a large coke or fruit drink bottle. It was the
 loudest explosion on guy falkes night.One
 guy I approached to blow a dome for me wouldn't &
 said if it burst in process, they would hear it a mile down
 the road.Warn
 your wife.Alan
 
       
  From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
  Sent: Monday,
 May 12, 2014 11:13 AM
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
    
 Alan,
 Yes I can fill it with water and that
 would be a good idea.? Or I can hide in my Nekton bomb
 shelter and peer out the port and watch :-)? 
 Hank 
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sun, 5/11/14, Alan James via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
  To:
 "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Sunday, May 11, 2014, 5:02 PM
  
  Hank,can
 
 you fill the test chamber up with water first. Or put it
 in
  a bath of water.I
  used
 to pressure test copper cylinders & we filled with
  water first.?Compressed
 
 air can make one hell of an
 
 explosion.?Alan
  
  
 ? ? ?  
 ?
 From: hank pronk via
 
  Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? To:
  personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 
 ? Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014
  3:56 AM
 ? Subject:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 ? ? 
  Today I am
 doing a? one hr pressure test on a port for
  a psub member and I am a big chicken.? I
 hide inside
  Gamma and use the compressor to
 charge the chamber.?
  That makes Gamma
 a bomb shelter LOL
  Hank
 
 _______________________________________________
 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
 ?
 ?  
  -----Inline Attachment
 Follows-----
  
 
 _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 11 22:50:14 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 20:50:14 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399842132.89580.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399823796.97468.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1399842132.89580.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <537036E6.90301@telus.net>

Did some destructive testing last week crushing oil pipeline samples in
our pressure chamber:

http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber

It is always filled with water for testing, but even still, the operator
station is behind a three foot thick reinforced concrete strong wall. 
When some of the larger pipes collapse, it shakes the building.

Sean


On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> Hank,
> can you fill the test chamber up with water first. Or put it in a bath
> of water.
> I used to pressure test copper cylinders & we filled with water first. 
> Compressed air can make one hell of an explosion. 
> Alan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56 AM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
>
> Today I am doing a  one hr pressure test on a port for a psub member
> and I am a big chicken.  I hide inside Gamma and use the compressor to
> charge the chamber.  That makes Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
> Hank
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 01:34:11 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 00:34:11 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Test #2
Message-ID: <fcirs00erswfj4am1pqt7kov.1399872448310@email.android.com>

Thanks for the info Alec. My motors are 36V and run off a different bank than everything else. The wires to the transponder were cut and fed through a subconn. I will see if I can isolate the problem before West Virgina.?
Do you have a waiver that people sign to take rides in your sub? I need to make up something before I go.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphonePrivate via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi Scott,

Concerning the sonar, I'd suggest looking at two possibilities. The first is a separate battery for the sonar, because if it goes off the same battery as everything else you may have a case of electrical noise - in particular if you have PWM speed controllers as those I think can be noisy. Second, look at whether the through-hull for the transducer could be picking up noise. Did you connect the cable shield (mesh) through one of the pins? That would be good.

For the lights, it sounds like it might be time to get a big tube of RTV do a temporary seal from the outside, then a proper fix after Summersville.?


Best,

Alec



On May 11, 2014, at 6:55 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Hey guys,
We took Trustworthy out for another test yesterday. This time the goals were:
*Deeper diving
*GPS/Sonar testing
*endurance of motor testing
*life support testing
*lights not leaking try two

We made three longer dives with a max of 43 feet and had a great time except viability was zero. The GPS worked flawlessly! The sonar is still having problems. I will continue to figure out the problem. Hopefully have it fixed by the West Virginia trip. I traked my max speed with the GPS at 3.2mph. After motoring for a solid mile I switched battery banks and my main motor cut out. Not sure the problem yet, but another thing to fix. Life support worked flawlessly! I originally thought I wanted to redo my life support system to a computer, but my simple design works way better than expeceted. I ran with only one scrubber and it had no problem keeping up with 2 people. I have decided to keep my system the way it is. As for my light housing leaking, yea... I am going to just make new hosuings after the West Virgina trip. All and all very sucsessful. These tests are important to work out the kinks.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 06:06:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:06:22 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <9398laucfue54knrosfdanpj.1399663088895@email.android.com>
References: <9398laucfue54knrosfdanpj.1399663088895@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UBOB00K=bzsmF+o7-N3EBnTBVh4909z8txV2sKLS8FJvg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on
them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
super bright.
Regards
James

On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>  Thanks Emile!
> -Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
>
>
> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>
>
>
> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>
> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>
>
>
> Regards, Emile
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
> Personal_Submersibles
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>
>
> Thanks Emile,
>
>
>
> I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for the
> link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>  -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> Scott,
>
>
>
> I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to purchase
> lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>
> *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>
>  If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>
>
>
> Regards, Emile
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org* <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or
> light housings?
>
> Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just
> need better housings.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 08:22:43 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 05:22:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <537036E6.90301@telus.net>
Message-ID: <1399897363.73602.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Sean,
Let me guess, your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
 
 
   
 

     
   
   
     Did some
 destructive testing last week
       crushing oil pipeline samples in our pressure
 chamber:
 
       
 
       http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
 
       
 
       It is always filled with water for testing, but even
 still, the
       operator station is behind a three foot thick
 reinforced concrete
       strong wall.? When some of the larger pipes
 collapse, it shakes
       the building.
 
       
 
       Sean
 
       
 
       
 
       On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James via
 Personal_Submersibles wrote:
 
     
     
       
         Hank,
         can
             you fill the test chamber up with water first.
 Or put it in
             a bath of water.
         I
             used to pressure test copper cylinders & we
 filled with
             water first.?
         Compressed
             air can make one hell of an
 explosion.?
         Alan
 
             
 
           
         
 
         
         
           
             
                
 From: hank
                 pronk via Personal_Submersibles
                 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
                 To:
                 personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
                 Sent:
                 Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56 AM
 
                 Subject:
                 [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 
                
             
 
               Today I am doing a? one hr pressure test
 on a port for a
               psub member and I am a big chicken.? I
 hide inside Gamma
               and use the compressor to charge the
 chamber.? That makes
               Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
 
               Hank
 
              
 _______________________________________________
 
               Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
               Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
               http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
             
           
         
       
     
     
 
   
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 15:21:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 13:21:53 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399897363.73602.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399897363.73602.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e1819a29-5a1c-4fd0-a3a5-d7af22e6c204@email.android.com>

Well, so far I have five design projects to various stages of completion, but have yet to pick up a torch and get dirty on anything.  At least when I have the time to embark on actual construction, I'll have several designs to choose from.

Sean


On May 12, 2014 6:22:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Sean,
>Let me guess, your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
>Hank
>--------------------------------------------
>On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
>
>     
>   
>   
>     Did some
> destructive testing last week
>       crushing oil pipeline samples in our pressure
> chamber:
> 
>       
> 
>       http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
> 
>       
> 
>       It is always filled with water for testing, but even
> still, the
>       operator station is behind a three foot thick
> reinforced concrete
>       strong wall.? When some of the larger pipes
> collapse, it shakes
>       the building.
> 
>       
> 
>       Sean
> 
>       
> 
>       
> 
>       On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James via
> Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> 
>     
>     
>       
>         Hank,
>         can
>             you fill the test chamber up with water first.
> Or put it in
>             a bath of water.
>         I
>             used to pressure test copper cylinders & we
> filled with
>             water first.?
>         Compressed
>             air can make one hell of an
> explosion.?
>         Alan
> 
>             
> 
>           
>         
> 
>         
>         
>           
>             
>                
> From: hank
>                 pronk via Personal_Submersibles
>                 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
>                 To:
>                 personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> 
> 
>                 Sent:
>                 Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56 AM
> 
>                 Subject:
>                 [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
> 
>                
>             
> 
>               Today I am doing a? one hr pressure test
> on a port for a
>               psub member and I am a big chicken.? I
> hide inside Gamma
>               and use the compressor to charge the
> chamber.? That makes
>               Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
> 
>               Hank
> 
>              
> _______________________________________________
> 
>               Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> 
>               Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> 
>        http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>             
>           
>         
>       
>     
>     
> 
>   
> 
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 17:52:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 14:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <e1819a29-5a1c-4fd0-a3a5-d7af22e6c204@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1399931533.29862.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Sean,
With your engineering skills, you can create a sub that is strong and cost effective.  We non engineer types tend to over build for lack of knowledge.  
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/12/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 3:21 PM
 
 Well,
 so far I have five design projects to various stages of
 completion, but have yet to pick up a torch and get dirty on
 anything.? At least when I have the time to embark on
 actual construction, I'll have several designs to choose
 from.
 Sean
 
 
 
 
 On May 12, 2014
 6:22:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Sean,
 Let me guess,
 your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
 Hank
 
 On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson
 via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received:
 Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
  
  
    
 
 
 
      
    
    
      Did some
 
 destructive testing last week
        crushing oil
 pipeline samples in our pressure
  chamber:
  
 
       
  
        http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
  
        
  
        It is always filled with
 water for testing, but even
  still, the
       
 operator station is behind a three foot thick
 
 reinforced concrete
  !
       
 strong wall.? When some of the larger pipes
  collapse,
 it shakes
        the building.
  
        
  
        Sean
  
        
  
       
 
  
        On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James via
  Personal_Submersibles wrote:
  
      
     
 
        
          Hank,
          can
    
          you fill the test chamber up with water first.
  Or put it in
              a bath of water.
     
     I
              used to pressure test copper
 cylinders & we
  filled with
              water
 first.?
          Compressed
              air can
 make one hell of an
  explosion.?
          Alan
  
              
  
            
         
 
  
          
          
            
 
             
                 
  From: hank
    
              pronk via Personal_Submersibles
           
      
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
         
         To:
                 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  
  
          
        Sent:
                  Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56
 AM
  
                  Subject:
               
   [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
  
        
         
              
  
                Today
 I am doing a? one hr pressure test
  on a port for a
                psub member and I am a big chicken.? I
  hide inside Gamma
                and use the
 compressor to charge the
  chamber.? That makes
   
             Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
  
            
    Hank
  
               
 
  
  
              Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  
 
               Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
   
             http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
              
            
          
 
       
      
      
  
    
  
 
 
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing
 list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 18:10:28 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 16:10:28 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399931533.29862.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399931533.29862.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2a09473f-e735-4f7e-af19-94c8ab7f3345@email.android.com>

I would characterize that differently. The same physics applies to industrial projects as to home builds. The difference is that at work, I'm paid to produce designs that are as close to insufficient as possible. At home, you don't necessarily have the same constraint.

Sean


On May 12, 2014 3:52:13 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Sean,
>With your engineering skills, you can create a sub that is strong and
>cost effective.  We non engineer types tend to over build for lack of
>knowledge.  
>Hank
>--------------------------------------------
>On Mon, 5/12/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 3:21 PM
> 
> Well,
> so far I have five design projects to various stages of
> completion, but have yet to pick up a torch and get dirty on
> anything.? At least when I have the time to embark on
> actual construction, I'll have several designs to choose
> from.
> Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 12, 2014
> 6:22:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Sean,
> Let me guess,
> your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
> Hank
> 
> On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson
> via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
> 
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received:
> Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
>  
>  
>    
> 
> 
> 
>      
>    
>    
>      Did some
> 
> destructive testing last week
>        crushing oil
> pipeline samples in our pressure
>  chamber:
>  
> 
>       
>  
>        http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
>  
>        
>  
>        It is always filled with
> water for testing, but even
>  still, the
>       
> operator station is behind a three foot thick
> 
> reinforced concrete
>  !
>       
> strong wall.? When some of the larger pipes
>  collapse,
> it shakes
>        the building.
>  
>        
>  
>        Sean
>  
>        
>  
>       
> 
>  
>        On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James via
>  Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>  
>      
>     
> 
>        
>          Hank,
>          can
>    
>          you fill the test chamber up with water first.
>  Or put it in
>              a bath of water.
>     
>     I
>              used to pressure test copper
> cylinders & we
>  filled with
>              water
> first.?
>          Compressed
>              air can
> make one hell of an
>  explosion.?
>          Alan
>  
>              
>  
>            
>         
> 
>  
>          
>          
>            
> 
>             
>                 
>  From: hank
>    
>              pronk via Personal_Submersibles
>           
>      
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  
>         
>         To:
>                 
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>  
>  
>          
>        Sent:
>                  Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56
> AM
>  
>                  Subject:
>               
>   [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
>  
>        
>         
>              
>  
>                Today
> I am doing a? one hr pressure test
>  on a port for a
>                psub member and I am a big chicken.? I
>  hide inside Gamma
>                and use the
> compressor to charge the
>  chamber.? That makes
>   
>             Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
>  
>            
>    Hank
>  
>               
> 
>  
>  
>              Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  
> 
>               Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  
>   
>        http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>  
>              
>            
>          
> 
>       
>      
>      
>  
>    
>  
> 
> 
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>  
> 
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> 
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>  
> 
> 
> Personal_Submersibles mailing
> list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 18:23:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 10:23:15 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399931533.29862.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <e1819a29-5a1c-4fd0-a3a5-d7af22e6c204@email.android.com>
 <1399931533.29862.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <537149d9.c3b3440a.21e3.ffff9df6@mx.google.com>

If it doesn't have to fly and you are inside of it then I'd go for
overbuild.
Hugh

-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Tuesday, 13 May 2014 9:52 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine

Sean,
With your engineering skills, you can create a sub that is strong and cost
effective.  We non engineer types tend to over build for lack of knowledge.

Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/12/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 3:21 PM
 
 Well,
 so far I have five design projects to various stages of  completion, but
have yet to pick up a torch and get dirty on  anything.? At least when I
have the time to embark on  actual construction, I'll have several designs
to choose  from.
 Sean
 
 
 
 
 On May 12, 2014
 6:22:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Sean,
 Let me guess,
 your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
 Hank
 
 On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson
 via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received:
 Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
  
  
    
 
 
 
      
    
    
      Did some
 
 destructive testing last week
        crushing oil
 pipeline samples in our pressure
  chamber:
  
 
       
  
        http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
  
        
  
        It is always filled with
 water for testing, but even
  still, the
       
 operator station is behind a three foot thick
 
 reinforced concrete
  !
       
 strong wall.? When some of the larger pipes
  collapse,
 it shakes
        the building.
  
        
  
        Sean
  
        
  
       
 
  
        On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James via
  Personal_Submersibles wrote:
  
      
     
 
        
          Hank,
          can
    
          you fill the test chamber up with water first.
  Or put it in
              a bath of water.
     
     I
              used to pressure test copper  cylinders & we
  filled with
              water
 first.?
          Compressed
              air can
 make one hell of an
  explosion.?
          Alan
  
              
  
            
         
 
  
          
          
            
 
             
                 
  From: hank
    
              pronk via Personal_Submersibles
           
      
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
         
         To:
                 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  
  
          
        Sent:
                  Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56  AM
  
                  Subject:
               
   [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
  
        
         
              
  
                Today
 I am doing a? one hr pressure test
  on a port for a
                psub member and I am a big chicken.? I
  hide inside Gamma
                and use the
 compressor to charge the
  chamber.? That makes
   
             Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
  
            
    Hank
  
               
 
  
  
              Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  
 
               Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
   
             http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
              
            
          
 
       
      
      
  
    
  
 
 
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing
 list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9790 (20140512) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9790 (20140512) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 18:39:20 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 15:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <537149d9.c3b3440a.21e3.ffff9df6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1399934360.44970.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Yes, the beauty of a submarine is it typically needs more weight, so overbuilding doesn't hurt.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/12/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 6:23 PM
 
 If it doesn't have to fly and you are
 inside of it then I'd go for
 overbuild.
 Hugh
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Tuesday, 13 May 2014 9:52 a.m.
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 
 Sean,
 With your engineering skills, you can create a sub that is
 strong and cost
 effective.? We non engineer types tend to over build
 for lack of knowledge.
 
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Mon, 5/12/14, Sean T. Stevenson via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 3:21 PM
  
  Well,
  so far I have five design projects to various stages
 of? completion, but
 have yet to pick up a torch and get dirty on?
 anything.? At least when I
 have the time to embark on? actual construction, I'll
 have several designs
 to choose? from.
  Sean
  
  
  
  
  On May 12, 2014
  6:22:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
  Sean,
  Let me guess,
  your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
  Hank
  
  On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson
  via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
  
  
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
  
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? Received:
  Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
 ? 
 ? 
 ? ? 
  
  
  
 ? ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? ? Did some
  
  destructive testing last week
 ? ? ? ? crushing oil
  pipeline samples in our pressure
 ? chamber:
 ? 
  
 ? ? ???
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? It is always filled with
  water for testing, but even
 ? still, the
 ? ? ???
  operator station is behind a three foot thick
  
  reinforced concrete
 ? !
 ? ? ???
  strong wall.? When some of the larger pipes
 ? collapse,
  it shakes
 ? ? ? ? the building.
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? Sean
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ???
  
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James
 via
 ? Personal_Submersibles wrote:
 ? 
 ? ? ? 
 ? ???
  
 ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? Hank,
 ? ? ? ? ? can
 ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? you fill the test chamber
 up with water first.
 ? Or put it in
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? a bath of
 water.
 ? ???
 ? ???I
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? used to
 pressure test copper? cylinders & we
 ? filled with
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? water
  first.?
 ? ? ? ? ? Compressed
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? air can
  make one hell of an
 ? explosion.?
 ? ? ? ? ? Alan
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ???
  
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? 
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ???
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ???
 ? From: hank
 ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 ? ? ? ? ???
 ? ? ? 
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
 ? ? ? ???
 ? ? ? ???To:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ???
  personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? Sent:
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56? AM
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? Subject:
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ???
 ???[PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ???
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 Today
  I am doing a? one hr pressure test
 ? on a port for a
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? psub
 member and I am a big chicken.? I
 ? hide inside Gamma
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and
 use the
  compressor to charge the
 ? chamber.? That makes
 ???
 ? ? ? ? ? ???Gamma a
 bomb shelter LOL
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? Hank
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ???
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? 
  
 ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ???Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
 ???
 ? ? ? ? ? ???http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? ? ? 
  
 ? ? ???
 ? ? ? 
 ? ? ? 
 ? 
 ? ? 
 ? 
  
  
 ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ? 
  
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
  
  Personal_Submersibles mailing
  list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
 virus signature
 database 9790 (20140512) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
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 _______________________________________________
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 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 22:24:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 22:24:36 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <1399931533.29862.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1399931533.29862.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55F898E3-EC5B-4CE2-A8F9-C3F1314EEDF6@yahoo.com>

That's true hank.

Case in point my latest design!

Joe

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Sent from my iPhone

On May 12, 2014, at 5:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Sean,
> With your engineering skills, you can create a sub that is strong and cost effective.  We non engineer types tend to over build for lack of knowledge.  
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 5/12/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 3:21 PM
> 
> Well,
> so far I have five design projects to various stages of
> completion, but have yet to pick up a torch and get dirty on
> anything.  At least when I have the time to embark on
> actual construction, I'll have several designs to choose
> from.
> Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 12, 2014
> 6:22:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Sean,
> Let me guess,
> your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
> Hank
> 
> On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson
> via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
> 
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received:
> Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>      Did some
> 
> destructive testing last week
>        crushing oil
> pipeline samples in our pressure
>  chamber:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>        http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
> 
> 
> 
>        It is always filled with
> water for testing, but even
>  still, the
> 
> operator station is behind a three foot thick
> 
> reinforced concrete
>  !
> 
> strong wall.  When some of the larger pipes
>  collapse,
> it shakes
>        the building.
> 
> 
> 
>        Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>        On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan James via
>  Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>          Hank,
>          can
> 
>          you fill the test chamber up with water first.
>  Or put it in
>              a bath of water.
> 
>     I
>              used to pressure test copper
> cylinders & we
>  filled with
>              water
> first. 
>          Compressed
>              air can
> make one hell of an
>  explosion. 
>          Alan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: hank
> 
>              pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> 
> 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> 
>         To:
> 
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> 
> 
> 
>        Sent:
>                  Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56
> AM
> 
>                  Subject:
> 
>   [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                Today
> I am doing a  one hr pressure test
>  on a port for a
>                psub member and I am a big chicken.  I
>  hide inside Gamma
>                and use the
> compressor to charge the
>  chamber.  That makes
> 
>             Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
> 
> 
>    Hank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>              Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> 
> 
>               Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> 
> 
>             http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> 
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> 
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> Personal_Submersibles mailing
> list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 23:48:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 17:48:29 -1000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Test #2
In-Reply-To: <fcirs00erswfj4am1pqt7kov.1399872448310@email.android.com>
References: <fcirs00erswfj4am1pqt7kov.1399872448310@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <7F2B91912A644741A865203DF8497C63@LandNSeaPC>

Thanks for the update Scott, it?s always nice to see other peoples progress and helps me keep the hammer down!


Rick

From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:34 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Test #2

Thanks for the info Alec. My motors are 36V and run off a different bank than everything else. The wires to the transponder were cut and fed through a subconn. I will see if I can isolate the problem before West Virgina. 
Do you have a waiver that people sign to take rides in your sub? I need to make up something before I go. 
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Private via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Hi Scott,

Concerning the sonar, I'd suggest looking at two possibilities. The first is a separate battery for the sonar, because if it goes off the same battery as everything else you may have a case of electrical noise - in particular if you have PWM speed controllers as those I think can be noisy. Second, look at whether the through-hull for the transducer could be picking up noise. Did you connect the cable shield (mesh) through one of the pins? That would be good.

For the lights, it sounds like it might be time to get a big tube of RTV do a temporary seal from the outside, then a proper fix after Summersville. 


Best,

Alec




On May 11, 2014, at 6:55 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


  Hey guys,
  We took Trustworthy out for another test yesterday. This time the goals were:
  *Deeper diving
  *GPS/Sonar testing
  *endurance of motor testing
  *life support testing
  *lights not leaking try two

  We made three longer dives with a max of 43 feet and had a great time except viability was zero. The GPS worked flawlessly! The sonar is still having problems. I will continue to figure out the problem. Hopefully have it fixed by the West Virginia trip. I traked my max speed with the GPS at 3.2mph. After motoring for a solid mile I switched battery banks and my main motor cut out. Not sure the problem yet, but another thing to fix. Life support worked flawlessly! I originally thought I wanted to redo my life support system to a computer, but my simple design works way better than expeceted. I ran with only one scrubber and it had no problem keeping up with 2 people. I have decided to keep my system the way it is. As for my light housing leaking, yea... I am going to just make new hosuings after the West Virgina trip. All and all very sucsessful. These tests are important to work out the kinks.
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters




  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 00:48:21 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 21:48:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UBOB00K=bzsmF+o7-N3EBnTBVh4909z8txV2sKLS8FJvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9398laucfue54knrosfdanpj.1399663088895@email.android.com>
 <CAHpB=UBOB00K=bzsmF+o7-N3EBnTBVh4909z8txV2sKLS8FJvg@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <1399956501.34572.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi James,
I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was in addition
to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching function. Most of them
have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing searches for
12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of ?a link to a 12V flood light was?
the best I've found so far ($20-).?

http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY

There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
??like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe cable gland. There?
are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
There is also space ?at the front to put in an oring grove.
I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting options under $100-
Alan?


________________________________
 From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 


Hi Scott,
?
I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on them a while ago).? Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a blue globe gland and they were good to go.? Very easy to make and they are super bright.
Regards
James


On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Thanks Emile!
>-Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>Scott,
>?
>Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>?
>I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>?
>Regards, Emile
>?
>
>________________________________
> 
>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles
>Verzonden: donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>?
>Thanks Emile,
>?
>I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
>?
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters?
>?
>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>>To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
>><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>Scott, 
>>?
>>I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>>http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv 
>>?If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>>?
>>Regards, Emile
>>?
>>
>>________________________________
>> 
>>Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>>Verzonden: dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>>Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>?
>>Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or light housings?
>>Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just need better housings.
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Waters
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>>________________________________
>> 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 07:56:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 06:56:22 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
Message-ID: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>

Thanks Alan,
I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi James,
I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was in addition
to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching function. Most of them
have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing searches for
12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of ?a link to a 12V flood light was?
the best I've found so far ($20-).?

http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY

There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
??like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe cable gland. There?
are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
There is also space ?at the front to put in an oring grove.
I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting options under $100-
Alan?

From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights

Hi Scott,
?
I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on them a while ago).? Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a blue globe gland and they were good to go.? Very easy to make and they are super bright.
Regards
James

On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Thanks Emile!
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Scott,
?
Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
?
I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
?
Regards, Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
?
Thanks Emile,
?
I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Scott,
?
I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv
?If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
?
Regards, Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
?
Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or light housings?
Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great, just need better housings.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 08:06:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 05:06:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
In-Reply-To: <55F898E3-EC5B-4CE2-A8F9-C3F1314EEDF6@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1399982809.53861.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Nice Joe,
Seems you have gone in a different direction, what is the depth rating.  When you pull the plug in your bath tub will it have enough thrust to escape the current? :-)
Hank 
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/12/14, Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 10:24 PM
 
 That's true hank.
 
 Case in point my latest design!
 
 Joe
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 12, 2014, at 5:52 PM, hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 > Sean,
 > With your engineering skills, you can create a sub that
 is strong and cost effective.? We non engineer types
 tend to over build for lack of knowledge.? 
 > Hank
 > --------------------------------------------
 > On Mon, 5/12/14, Sean T. Stevenson via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > 
 > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 > Received: Monday, May 12, 2014, 3:21 PM
 > 
 > Well,
 > so far I have five design projects to various stages
 of
 > completion, but have yet to pick up a torch and get
 dirty on
 > anything.? At least when I have the time to embark
 on
 > actual construction, I'll have several designs to
 choose
 > from.
 > Sean
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > On May 12, 2014
 > 6:22:43 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > Sean,
 > Let me guess,
 > your sub will fit in that chamber, what a beauty.
 > Hank
 > 
 > On Sun, 5/11/14, Sean T. Stevenson
 > via Personal_Submersibles
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose submarine
 > 
 > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >? Received:
 > Sunday, May 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? Did some
 > 
 > destructive testing last week
 >? ? ? ? crushing oil
 > pipeline samples in our pressure
 >? chamber:
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? http://www.cfertech.com/deepwater-experimental-chamber
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? It is always filled with
 > water for testing, but even
 >? still, the
 > 
 > operator station is behind a three foot thick
 > 
 > reinforced concrete
 >? !
 > 
 > strong wall.? When some of the larger pipes
 >? collapse,
 > it shakes
 >? ? ? ? the building.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? Sean
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? On 2014-05-11 15:02, Alan
 James via
 >? Personal_Submersibles wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? Hank,
 >? ? ? ? ? can
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? you fill the test
 chamber up with water first.
 >? Or put it in
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? a bath
 of water.
 > 
 >? ???I
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? used to
 pressure test copper
 > cylinders & we
 >? filled with
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? water
 > first. 
 >? ? ? ? ? Compressed
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? air
 can
 > make one hell of an
 >? explosion. 
 >? ? ? ? ? Alan
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? From: hank
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? pronk
 via Personal_Submersibles
 > 
 > 
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ???To:
 > 
 > personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? Sent:
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? Monday, May 12, 2014 3:56
 > AM
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? Subject:
 > 
 >???[PSUBS-MAILIST] dual purpose
 submarine
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 Today
 > I am doing a? one hr pressure test
 >? on a port for a
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 psub member and I am a big chicken.? I
 >? hide inside Gamma
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 and use the
 > compressor to charge the
 >? chamber.? That makes
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ?
 ???Gamma a bomb shelter LOL
 > 
 > 
 >? ? Hank
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? ?
 ???Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > 
 > 
 >? ? ? ? ? ???http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 > 
 > 
 >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > 
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Personal_Submersibles mailing
 > list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 > 
 > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 09:02:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 09:02:53 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>

I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was all
around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
water, you will get stray currents between them.

On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood lights
intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really impressed with
how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather than using the
light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw that serves no
visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill them with
mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but with patience
you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about an hour. The
front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I have any
bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a syringe with a
"dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use for filling
things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are IP67, so
supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable gland
with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I think
these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually off
the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
meantime.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd


Best,

Alec



On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Thanks Alan,
> I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
> Hi James,
> I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was in
> addition
> to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
> To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching function.
> Most of them
> have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing
> searches for
> 12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of  a
> link to a 12V flood light was
> the best I've found so far ($20-).
>
>
> http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>
> There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
>   like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe cable
> gland. There
> are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
> There is also space  at the front to put in an oring grove.
> I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting options
> under $100-
> Alan
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on
> them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
> blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
> super bright.
> Regards
> James
>
> On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>  Thanks Emile!
> -Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  Scott,
>
> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>
> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>
> Regards, Emile
>
>  ------------------------------
>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
> Personal_Submersibles
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>  Thanks Emile,
>
>  I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for
> the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Scott Waters
>
>
>  -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Scott,
>
>  I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to
> purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>  *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>   If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>
>  Regards, Emile
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org* <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>   Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or
> light housings?
>   Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
> just need better housings.
>   Thanks,
>   Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>   Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>  ------------------------------
>  _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 09:34:28 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 14:34:28 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>

hmm.  Got me worried now Alec.

I have a mains feed into my lights (via a blue globe).  I just soldered the
live to the Centre spring and the return to what appears to be the body.
Do you think ive got a leak here.  I suspect so.
http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24089.htm

The only saving grace is perhaps they are insulated as there is a rubber
pad in between the mounting bracket and the light.
http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24944.htm

What do you think?
Regards
James

On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was all
> around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
> connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
> a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
> when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
> water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
> were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
> Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
> handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
> chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
> water, you will get stray currents between them.
>
> On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood lights
> intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really impressed with
> how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather than using the
> light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw that serves no
> visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill them with
> mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but with patience
> you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about an hour. The
> front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I have any
> bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a syringe with a
> "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use for filling
> things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are IP67, so
> supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable gland
> with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I think
> these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually off
> the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
> week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
> meantime.
>
>
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>>  Thanks Alan,
>> I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
>>  Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>>  Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> wrote:
>>   Hi James,
>> I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was in
>> addition
>> to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
>> To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching function.
>> Most of them
>> have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing
>> searches for
>> 12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of  a
>> link to a 12V flood light was
>> the best I've found so far ($20-).
>>
>>
>> http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>>
>> There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
>>   like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe cable
>> gland. There
>> are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
>> There is also space  at the front to put in an oring grove.
>> I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting
>> options under $100-
>> Alan
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>
>>  Hi Scott,
>>
>> I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on
>> them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
>> blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
>> super bright.
>> Regards
>> James
>>
>> On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks Emile!
>> -Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>  Scott,
>>
>> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>>
>> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>>
>> Regards, Emile
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
>> Personal_Submersibles
>> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>
>>  Thanks Emile,
>>
>>  I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for
>> the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>  Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>  -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>  Scott,
>>
>>  I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to
>> purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>>  *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>>   If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>>
>>  Regards, Emile
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
>> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
>> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>
>>  Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or
>> light housings?
>>   Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
>> just need better housings.
>>  Thanks,
>>  Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>  ------------------------------
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 11:06:32 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 16:06:32 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interesting Article
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UCSarA4FPBKh0Cp7b=MeOWSPsnazhyYsJfBZO2y-nd81g@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25552-deepestdiving-sub-implodes-in-kermadec-trench.html?utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=SOC&utm_campaign=facebookgoogletwitter&cmpid=SOC
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 11:08:51 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 11:08:51 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>

I think they might corrode, but there's an easy way to find out. Its so
fast, if they do corrode you will find out pretty quickly. Mine sprouted
white stuff all over them, they looked a bit like the barnacles on whales
after just hours.

:(

Alec


On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> hmm.  Got me worried now Alec.
>
> I have a mains feed into my lights (via a blue globe).  I just soldered
> the live to the Centre spring and the return to what appears to be the
> body.  Do you think ive got a leak here.  I suspect so.
> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24089.htm
>
> The only saving grace is perhaps they are insulated as there is a rubber
> pad in between the mounting bracket and the light.
> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24944.htm
>
> What do you think?
> Regards
> James
>
> On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was all
>> around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
>> connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
>> a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
>> when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
>> water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
>> were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
>> Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
>> handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
>> chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
>> water, you will get stray currents between them.
>>
>> On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood
>> lights intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really
>> impressed with how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather
>> than using the light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw
>> that serves no visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill
>> them with mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but
>> with patience you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about
>> an hour. The front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I
>> have any bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a
>> syringe with a "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use
>> for filling things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are
>> IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable
>> gland with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I
>> think these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually
>> off the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
>> week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
>> meantime.
>>
>>
>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>>  Thanks Alan,
>>> I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
>>>  Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>
>>>  Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>   Hi James,
>>> I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was
>>> in addition
>>> to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
>>> To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching function.
>>> Most of them
>>> have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing
>>> searches for
>>> 12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of
>>>  a link to a 12V flood light was
>>> the best I've found so far ($20-).
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>>>
>>> There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
>>>   like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe
>>> cable gland. There
>>> are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
>>> There is also space  at the front to put in an oring grove.
>>> I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting
>>> options under $100-
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>
>>>  Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on
>>> them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
>>> blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
>>> super bright.
>>> Regards
>>> James
>>>
>>> On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Thanks Emile!
>>> -Scott Waters
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>
>>>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>  Scott,
>>>
>>> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>>>
>>> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>>> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>>>
>>> Regards, Emile
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
>>> Personal_Submersibles
>>> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>>> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>
>>>  Thanks Emile,
>>>
>>>  I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for
>>> the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>  Scott Waters
>>>
>>>
>>>  -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>  Scott,
>>>
>>>  I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to
>>> purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>>>  *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>>>   If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>>>
>>>  Regards, Emile
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
>>> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
>>> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>>> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>
>>>   Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights
>>> or light housings?
>>>   Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
>>> just need better housings.
>>>   Thanks,
>>>   Scott Waters
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 11:32:28 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 16:32:28 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UDmfBM4cxLFaFF1iv1j2w_PxNU6Wy95Q0fz=bosVRLMSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alec,

Yeah, i think your probably right.  To be fair ive only switched them on
briefly underwater once.  They are insulated from the hull mind as there is
that rubber pad and thinking about it, they are mounted to the fibreglass
of the forward tank.

Think i might attach a bit of zinc to each, give them a fighting chance.

So annoying!  i was really pleased with my lights!  Might be back to Emiles
drawing after all.  I bought the lenses and got half way though making one.

oh well.
James

On 13 May 2014 16:08, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I think they might corrode, but there's an easy way to find out. Its so
> fast, if they do corrode you will find out pretty quickly. Mine sprouted
> white stuff all over them, they looked a bit like the barnacles on whales
> after just hours.
>
> :(
>
> Alec
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> hmm.  Got me worried now Alec.
>>
>> I have a mains feed into my lights (via a blue globe).  I just soldered
>> the live to the Centre spring and the return to what appears to be the
>> body.  Do you think ive got a leak here.  I suspect so.
>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24089.htm
>>
>> The only saving grace is perhaps they are insulated as there is a rubber
>> pad in between the mounting bracket and the light.
>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24944.htm
>>
>> What do you think?
>> Regards
>> James
>>
>>  On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was
>>> all around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
>>> connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
>>> a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
>>> when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
>>> water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
>>> were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
>>> Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
>>> handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
>>> chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
>>> water, you will get stray currents between them.
>>>
>>> On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood
>>> lights intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really
>>> impressed with how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather
>>> than using the light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw
>>> that serves no visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill
>>> them with mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but
>>> with patience you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about
>>> an hour. The front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I
>>> have any bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a
>>> syringe with a "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use
>>> for filling things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are
>>> IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable
>>> gland with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I
>>> think these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually
>>> off the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
>>> week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
>>> meantime.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Alec
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Thanks Alan,
>>>> I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
>>>>  Thanks,
>>>> Scott Waters
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>
>>>>  Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>   Hi James,
>>>> I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was
>>>> in addition
>>>> to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
>>>> To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching function.
>>>> Most of them
>>>> have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing
>>>> searches for
>>>> 12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of
>>>>  a link to a 12V flood light was
>>>> the best I've found so far ($20-).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>>>>
>>>> There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
>>>>   like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe
>>>> cable gland. There
>>>> are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
>>>> There is also space  at the front to put in an oring grove.
>>>> I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting
>>>> options under $100-
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Scott,
>>>>
>>>> I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on
>>>> them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
>>>> blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
>>>> super bright.
>>>> Regards
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks Emile!
>>>> -Scott Waters
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>
>>>>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>  Scott,
>>>>
>>>> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>>>>
>>>> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>>>> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Emile
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
>>>> Personal_Submersibles
>>>> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>>>> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks Emile,
>>>>
>>>>  I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for
>>>> the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>  Scott Waters
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>>>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>  Scott,
>>>>
>>>>  I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to
>>>> purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>>>>  *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>>>>   If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>>>>
>>>>  Regards, Emile
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
>>>> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
>>>> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>>>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>>>> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>
>>>>  Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights
>>>> or light housings?
>>>>   Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
>>>> just need better housings.
>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>  Scott Waters
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 12:05:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 12:05:53 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UDmfBM4cxLFaFF1iv1j2w_PxNU6Wy95Q0fz=bosVRLMSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UDmfBM4cxLFaFF1iv1j2w_PxNU6Wy95Q0fz=bosVRLMSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6wX2ZDGV4j0Q_q5R071Tzhu2LAr4M+oj_i0eR=qKa-kw@mail.gmail.com>

Mine were insulated from the hull as well, if one can consider a chunk of
metal in sea water to be insulated - the rubber strap is circumvented by
water. And mine were powered by their internal batteries instead of from
the sub. I think the issue is currents passing between the two lights. As
their batteries will never be at the same exact voltage, I'm thinking they
are loaning each other some electrons through the water to even things out.
A very scientific explanation, eh?


On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:32 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Hi Alec,
>
> Yeah, i think your probably right.  To be fair ive only switched them on
> briefly underwater once.  They are insulated from the hull mind as there is
> that rubber pad and thinking about it, they are mounted to the fibreglass
> of the forward tank.
>
> Think i might attach a bit of zinc to each, give them a fighting chance.
>
> So annoying!  i was really pleased with my lights!  Might be back to
> Emiles drawing after all.  I bought the lenses and got half way though
> making one.
>
> oh well.
> James
>
> On 13 May 2014 16:08, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> I think they might corrode, but there's an easy way to find out. Its so
>> fast, if they do corrode you will find out pretty quickly. Mine sprouted
>> white stuff all over them, they looked a bit like the barnacles on whales
>> after just hours.
>>
>> :(
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM, James Frankland via
>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> hmm.  Got me worried now Alec.
>>>
>>> I have a mains feed into my lights (via a blue globe).  I just soldered
>>> the live to the Centre spring and the return to what appears to be the
>>> body.  Do you think ive got a leak here.  I suspect so.
>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24089.htm
>>>
>>> The only saving grace is perhaps they are insulated as there is a rubber
>>> pad in between the mounting bracket and the light.
>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24944.htm
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>> Regards
>>> James
>>>
>>>  On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was
>>>> all around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
>>>> connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
>>>> a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
>>>> when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
>>>> water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
>>>> were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
>>>> Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
>>>> handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
>>>> chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
>>>> water, you will get stray currents between them.
>>>>
>>>> On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood
>>>> lights intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really
>>>> impressed with how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather
>>>> than using the light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw
>>>> that serves no visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill
>>>> them with mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but
>>>> with patience you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about
>>>> an hour. The front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I
>>>> have any bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a
>>>> syringe with a "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use
>>>> for filling things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are
>>>> IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable
>>>> gland with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I
>>>> think these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually
>>>> off the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
>>>> week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
>>>> meantime.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Alec
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Thanks Alan,
>>>>> I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>> Scott Waters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>
>>>>>  Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>   Hi James,
>>>>> I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was
>>>>> in addition
>>>>> to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
>>>>> To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching
>>>>> function. Most of them
>>>>> have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing
>>>>> searches for
>>>>> 12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of
>>>>>  a link to a 12V flood light was
>>>>> the best I've found so far ($20-).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>>>>>
>>>>> There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
>>>>>   like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe
>>>>> cable gland. There
>>>>> are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
>>>>> There is also space  at the front to put in an oring grove.
>>>>> I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting
>>>>> options under $100-
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion
>>>>> on them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
>>>>> blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
>>>>> super bright.
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thanks Emile!
>>>>> -Scott Waters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>
>>>>>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>  Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>>>>>
>>>>> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>>>>> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, Emile
>>>>>
>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles
>>>>> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>>>>> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thanks Emile,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank
>>>>> for the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop
>>>>> leaking.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>>  Scott Waters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>>>>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
>>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>  Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to
>>>>> purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>>>>>  *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>>>>>   If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Regards, Emile
>>>>>
>>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
>>>>> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
>>>>> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>>>>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>>>>> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>>
>>>>>   Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can"
>>>>> lights or light housings?
>>>>>   Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
>>>>> just need better housings.
>>>>>   Thanks,
>>>>>   Scott Waters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 12:29:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:29:22 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ6wX2ZDGV4j0Q_q5R071Tzhu2LAr4M+oj_i0eR=qKa-kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UDmfBM4cxLFaFF1iv1j2w_PxNU6Wy95Q0fz=bosVRLMSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ6wX2ZDGV4j0Q_q5R071Tzhu2LAr4M+oj_i0eR=qKa-kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UC9eTOh92NubcAP8upf=PoQZw5auV-oMggZb11DhSA1iw@mail.gmail.com>

oh no, it gets worse!  Yet another job to add to my rapidly growing "winter
modifications" list.

>I'm thinking they are loaning each other some electrons through the water
to even things out. A very >scientific explanation, eh?
I like it.  Electrons and water and stuff, i can understand that!
Thanks
James


On 13 May 2014 17:05, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Mine were insulated from the hull as well, if one can consider a chunk of
> metal in sea water to be insulated - the rubber strap is circumvented by
> water. And mine were powered by their internal batteries instead of from
> the sub. I think the issue is currents passing between the two lights. As
> their batteries will never be at the same exact voltage, I'm thinking they
> are loaning each other some electrons through the water to even things out.
> A very scientific explanation, eh?
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:32 AM, James Frankland via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alec,
>>
>> Yeah, i think your probably right.  To be fair ive only switched them on
>> briefly underwater once.  They are insulated from the hull mind as there is
>> that rubber pad and thinking about it, they are mounted to the fibreglass
>> of the forward tank.
>>
>> Think i might attach a bit of zinc to each, give them a fighting chance.
>>
>> So annoying!  i was really pleased with my lights!  Might be back to
>> Emiles drawing after all.  I bought the lenses and got half way though
>> making one.
>>
>> oh well.
>> James
>>
>>  On 13 May 2014 16:08, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I think they might corrode, but there's an easy way to find out. Its so
>>> fast, if they do corrode you will find out pretty quickly. Mine sprouted
>>> white stuff all over them, they looked a bit like the barnacles on whales
>>> after just hours.
>>>
>>> :(
>>>
>>> Alec
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM, James Frankland via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hmm.  Got me worried now Alec.
>>>>
>>>> I have a mains feed into my lights (via a blue globe).  I just soldered
>>>> the live to the Centre spring and the return to what appears to be the
>>>> body.  Do you think ive got a leak here.  I suspect so.
>>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24089.htm
>>>>
>>>> The only saving grace is perhaps they are insulated as there is a
>>>> rubber pad in between the mounting bracket and the light.
>>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24944.htm
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>> Regards
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>>  On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was
>>>>> all around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
>>>>> connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
>>>>> a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
>>>>> when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
>>>>> water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
>>>>> were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
>>>>> Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
>>>>> handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
>>>>> chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
>>>>> water, you will get stray currents between them.
>>>>>
>>>>> On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood
>>>>> lights intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really
>>>>> impressed with how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather
>>>>> than using the light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw
>>>>> that serves no visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill
>>>>> them with mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but
>>>>> with patience you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about
>>>>> an hour. The front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I
>>>>> have any bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a
>>>>> syringe with a "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use
>>>>> for filling things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are
>>>>> IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable
>>>>> gland with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I
>>>>> think these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually
>>>>> off the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
>>>>> week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
>>>>> meantime.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Alec
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks Alan,
>>>>>> I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
>>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>>> Scott Waters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>   Hi James,
>>>>>> I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This
>>>>>> was in addition
>>>>>> to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
>>>>>> To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching
>>>>>> function. Most of them
>>>>>> have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing
>>>>>> searches for
>>>>>> 12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting
>>>>>> of  a link to a 12V flood light was
>>>>>> the best I've found so far ($20-).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
>>>>>>   like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe
>>>>>> cable gland. There
>>>>>> are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
>>>>>> There is also space  at the front to put in an oring grove.
>>>>>> I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting
>>>>>> options under $100-
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi Scott,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion
>>>>>> on them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
>>>>>> blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
>>>>>> super bright.
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks Emile!
>>>>>> -Scott Waters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>  Scott,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>>>>>> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards, Emile
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>>>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles
>>>>>> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>>>>>> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>>>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks Emile,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank
>>>>>> for the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop
>>>>>> leaking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>>>  Scott Waters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>>> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>>>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>>>>>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
>>>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>>  Scott,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to
>>>>>> purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>>>>>>  *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>>>>>>   If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Regards, Emile
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
>>>>>> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
>>>>>> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>>>>>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>>>>>> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can"
>>>>>> lights or light housings?
>>>>>>   Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was
>>>>>> great, just need better housings.
>>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>>>  Scott Waters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 12:57:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 12:57:29 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interesting Article
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UCSarA4FPBKh0Cp7b=MeOWSPsnazhyYsJfBZO2y-nd81g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UCSarA4FPBKh0Cp7b=MeOWSPsnazhyYsJfBZO2y-nd81g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnKic9WZRJ6sYyubSSr4tgv4E253yFNHX6n6SLYNmrosUA@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting indeed. I look forward to learning what happened. ~ Douglas S.


On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25552-deepestdiving-sub-implodes-in-kermadec-trench.html?utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=SOC&utm_campaign=facebookgoogletwitter&cmpid=SOC
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 13:43:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 10:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interesting Article
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjnKic9WZRJ6sYyubSSr4tgv4E253yFNHX6n6SLYNmrosUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UCSarA4FPBKh0Cp7b=MeOWSPsnazhyYsJfBZO2y-nd81g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOGJjnKic9WZRJ6sYyubSSr4tgv4E253yFNHX6n6SLYNmrosUA@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <1400002997.49792.YahooMailNeo@web141505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

What's really interesting, is that it has made a number of dives already into the Marianna's. So the failure is a real surprise. 

Unless there was a component change of some sort???

What came up in pieces?was likely syntactic foam components, I'm going to guess that's what failed.

Joe
On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:59 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
Interesting indeed. I look forward to learning what happened. ~ Douglas S.?



On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25552-deepestdiving-sub-implodes-in-kermadec-trench.html?utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=SOC&utm_campaign=facebookgoogletwitter&cmpid=SOC 
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 14:17:16 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 18:17:16 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472984280-1400005036-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-667375619-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>

Alec:

Are the housings made of Aluminum or Magnesium that would explain the white spots. Both are near the bottom of the galvanic  scale with zinc being the most sacrificial.

John K.
(203) 414-1000
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 11:08:51 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 15:25:10 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 12:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interesting Article
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UCSarA4FPBKh0Cp7b=MeOWSPsnazhyYsJfBZO2y-nd81g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UCSarA4FPBKh0Cp7b=MeOWSPsnazhyYsJfBZO2y-nd81g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1400009110.47772.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

James,
interesting that the Nereus has similar oil compensated lights to the one's Alec just sent a link to.
The same 4x4 led pattern. With oil filling you could go to a plastic housing as the oil would be a
heat sink.
Did the Nereus implode or was it hit by a Boeing 777?
Alan




________________________________
 From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 3:06 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Interesting Article
 


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25552-deepestdiving-sub-implodes-in-kermadec-trench.html?utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=SOC&utm_campaign=facebookgoogletwitter&cmpid=SOC
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 15:38:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 12:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1400009897.76018.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


When I was at Nuytco, I held a light for the DW subs, it is a bunch of led's in a square housing with a rubber membrane on the back filled with oil.  A simple box with an acrylic lens, very simple.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/13/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Tuesday, May 13, 2014, 11:08 AM
 
 I think they might corrode,
 but there's an easy way to find out. Its so fast, if
 they do corrode you will find out pretty quickly. Mine
 sprouted white stuff all over them, they looked a bit like
 the barnacles on whales after just hours.
 
 :(
 Alec
 
 On Tue, May 13, 2014 at
 9:34 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 hmm.? Got me worried now
 Alec.? ? 
 ?
 I have a mains feed into my lights (via a blue
 globe).? I just soldered the live to the Centre spring and
 the return to what appears to be the body.? Do you think
 ive got a leak here.? I suspect so.
 http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24089.htm
 ?
 The only saving grace is perhaps they are insulated as
 there is a rubber pad in between the mounting bracket and
 the light.? 
 http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24944.htm
 ?
 What do you think?
 Regards
 James
 
 
 On 13 May 2014 14:02,
 Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 I used Trustfire lights for a season on
 Snoopy but the experience was all around bad. I bought two,
 one of which did not work due to a faulty connection at the
 endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me a
 new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they
 worked well, but when I went to Islamorada last year they
 lasted less than a day in the salt water. After just hours,
 one stopped working altogether and both lights were very
 visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this
 through. The Trustfire lights close the circuit when you
 screw in the endcap on the handle. They use the light body
 itself as a conductor, like a car uses its chassis. I think
 the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt water,
 you will get stray currents between them.? 
 
 
 On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights,
 which are LED flood lights intended for tractors or off road
 vehicles. I've been really impressed with how solid
 these are. They are wired with two cables, rather than using
 the light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw
 that serves no visible purpose, but which when removed
 allows you to fill them with mineral oil. It took a while to
 get the last bubbles out, but with patience you can fill
 these with oil and remove all bubbles in about an hour. The
 front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if
 I have any bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill
 them I used a syringe with a "dispenser needle"
 which is a blunt syringe needle you use for filling things
 rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are
 IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to
 reinforce the cable gland with some epoxy. We shall see how
 they work, but my hopes are up, I think these might finally
 be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually off the
 shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from
 next week's dive, but here is the link if you want to
 take a look in the meantime.
 
 
 
 
 http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Best,
 
 Alec
 ?? ?
 
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, May 13, 2014 at
 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 Thanks Alan,
 I have been searching too for some kind of easy and
 cheap solution.
 
 Thanks,
 Scott Waters
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Sent from my U.S.
 Cellular? Smartphone
 
 
 Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 Hi James,
 I
 bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire.
 This was in addition
 
 
 to
 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
 
 
 To
 date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching
 function. Most of them
 
 
 have
 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been
 doing searches for
 
 
 12V
 torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest
 posting of ?a link to a 12V flood light was?
 
 
 the
 best I've found so far ($20-).?
 
 
 
 
 http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
 
 
 
 
 There
 is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it
 looks
 
 
 ??like
 the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe
 cable gland. There?
 are
 a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose
 from.
 
 
 There
 is also space ?at the front to put in an oring
 grove.
 
 
 I'm
 sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater
 lighting options under $100-
 
 
 Alan?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: James Frankland
 via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
 To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 Sent: Monday, May 12,
 2014 10:06 PM
 
 
 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 
 
 
 
 
 Hi Scott,
 ?
 I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was
 a discussion on them a while ago).? Drilled and tapped a
 hole in the base, screwed in a blue globe gland and they
 were good to go.? Very easy to make and they are super
 bright.
 
 
 Regards
 James
 
 
 On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Thanks Emile!
 -Scott Waters
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Sent from my U.S.
 Cellular? Smartphone
 
 
 Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 Scott,
 ?
 Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is
 open source now..
 ?
 I purchased the glass and reflectors from a
 German webshop .
 http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
 
 
 ?
 Regards,
 Emile
 ?
 
 
 
 
 Van:
 Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 Namens via
 Personal_Submersibles
 
 
 Verzonden:
 donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
 Aan: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion
 Onderwerp: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 
 
 ?
 
 Thanks
 Emile,
 
 ?
 
 I
 have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings?
 Thank for the link. I may go that route if I can't get
 my housings to stop
 leaking.
 
 
 
 ?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Scott
 Waters?
 
 ?
 
 
 --------
 Original Message --------
 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 From: Emile van Essen
 via Personal_Submersibles
 
 
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
 
 
 To: "'Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion'"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
 
 
 Scott,
 
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 I made lamp housings for a while. But now I
 think it is better to purchase lampheads for technical scuba
 diving.
 
 
 
 http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv
 
 
 
 
 ?If you own a small lathe you can make them
 yourself.
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 Regards, Emile
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Van:
 Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 Namens swaters
 via Personal_Submersibles
 
 
 Verzonden:
 dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 Onderwerp:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 
 Does anyone
 have a source for underwater pressure rated "can"
 lights or light housings?
 
 
 
 
 
 Mine took
 on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
 just need better housings.
 
 
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 
 
 
 Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 
 ?
 
 
 
 
 
 Sent from
 my U.S. Cellular?
 Smartphone
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 15:59:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 12:59:12 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
Message-ID: <20140513125912.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1d28910ddb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 16:15:02 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 13:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <20140513125912.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1d28910ddb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140513125912.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1d28910ddb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1400012102.79097.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Here's a picture of the oil compensated Nereus lights. (attached bottom of page)
They have plastic elbows running out of the light housing with the wire
runs?in oil filled plastic tubing.
Alan



________________________________
 From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 


Very cool. I never thought about oil compensating a light.
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Date: Tue, May 13, 2014 12:58 pm
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>When I was at Nuytco, I held a light for the DW subs, it is a bunch of led's in a square housing with a rubber membrane on the back filled with oil. A simple box with an acrylic lens, very simple.
>Hank--------------------------------------------
>On Tue, 5/13/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Received: Tuesday, May 13, 2014, 11:08 AM
>
>I think they might corrode,
>but there's an easy way to find out. Its so fast, if
>they do corrode you will find out pretty quickly. Mine
>sprouted white stuff all over them, they looked a bit like
>the barnacles on whales after just hours.
>
>:(
>Alec
>
>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at
>9:34 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>
>hmm.? Got me worried now
>Alec.? ? 
>?
>I have a mains feed into my lights (via a blue
>globe).? I just soldered the live to the Centre spring and
>the return to what appears to be the body.? Do you think
>ive got a leak here.? I suspect so.
>http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24089.htm
>?
>The only saving grace is perhaps they are insulated as
>there is a rubber pad in between the mounting bracket and
>the light.? 
>http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page24944.htm
>?
>What do you think?
>Regards
>James
>
>
>On 13 May 2014 14:02,
>Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>I used Trustfire lights for a season on
>Snoopy but the experience was all around bad. I bought two,
>one of which did not work due to a faulty connection at the
>endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me a
>new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they
>worked well, but when I went to Islamorada last year they
>lasted less than a day in the salt water. After just hours,
>one stopped working altogether and both lights were very
>visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this
>through. The Trustfire lights close the circuit when you
>screw in the endcap on the handle. They use the light body
>itself as a conductor, like a car uses its chassis. I think
>the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt water,
>you will get stray currents between them.? 
>
>
>On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights,
>which are LED flood lights intended for tractors or off road
>vehicles. I've been really impressed with how solid
>these are. They are wired with two cables, rather than using
>the light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw
>that serves no visible purpose, but which when removed
>allows you to fill them with mineral oil. It took a while to
>get the last bubbles out, but with patience you can fill
>these with oil and remove all bubbles in about an hour. The
>front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if
>I have any bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill
>them I used a syringe with a "dispenser needle"
>which is a blunt syringe needle you use for filling things
>rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are
>IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to
>reinforce the cable gland with some epoxy. We shall see how
>they work, but my hopes are up, I think these might finally
>be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually off the
>shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from
>next week's dive, but here is the link if you want to
>take a look in the meantime.
>
>
>
>
>http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Best,
>
>Alec
>?? ?
>
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at
>7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks Alan,
>I have been searching too for some kind of easy and
>cheap solution.
>
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S.
>Cellular? Smartphone
>
>
>Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi James,
>I
>bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire.
>This was in addition
>
>
>to
>4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
>
>
>To
>date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching
>function. Most of them
>
>
>have
>3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been
>doing searches for
>
>
>12V
>torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest
>posting of ?a link to a 12V flood light was?
>
>
>the
>best I've found so far ($20-).?
>
>
>
>
>http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>
>
>
>
>There
>is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it
>looks
>
>
>??like
>the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe
>cable gland. There?
>are
>a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose
>from.
>
>
>There
>is also space ?at the front to put in an oring
>grove.
>
>
>I'm
>sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater
>lighting options under $100-
>
>
>Alan?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: James Frankland
>via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>To: Personal
>Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>Sent: Monday, May 12,
>2014 10:06 PM
>
>
>Subject: Re:
>[PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Scott,
>?
>I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was
>a discussion on them a while ago).? Drilled and tapped a
>hole in the base, screwed in a blue globe gland and they
>were good to go.? Very easy to make and they are super
>bright.
>
>
>Regards
>James
>
>
>On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks Emile!
>-Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S.
>Cellular? Smartphone
>
>
>Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>wrote:
>
>
>Scott,
>?
>Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is
>open source now..
>?
>I purchased the glass and reflectors from a
>German webshop .
>http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>
>
>?
>Regards,
>Emile
>?
>
>
>
>
>Van:
>Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
>Namens via
>Personal_Submersibles
>
>
>Verzonden:
>donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>Aan: Personal
>Submersibles General Discussion
>Onderwerp: Re:
>[PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>
>?
>
>Thanks
>Emile,
>
>?
>
>I
>have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings?
>Thank for the link. I may go that route if I can't get
>my housings to stop
>leaking.
>
>
>
>?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Scott
>Waters?
>
>?
>
>
>--------
>Original Message --------
>Subject: Re:
>[PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>From: Emile van Essen
>via Personal_Submersibles
>
>
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>
>
>To: "'Personal Submersibles General
>Discussion'"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>
>
>Scott,
>
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>I made lamp housings for a while. But now I
>think it is better to purchase lampheads for technical scuba
>diving.
>
>
>
>http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv
>
>
>
>
>?If you own a small lathe you can make them
>yourself.
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>Regards, Emile
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Van:
>Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
>Namens swaters
>via Personal_Submersibles
>
>
>Verzonden:
>dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>Onderwerp:
>[PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>
>Does anyone
>have a source for underwater pressure rated "can"
>lights or light housings?
>
>
>
>
>
>Mine took
>on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
>just need better housings.
>
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>Scott
>Waters
>
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from
>my U.S. Cellular?
>Smartphone
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 16:26:28 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 16:26:28 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <472984280-1400005036-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-667375619-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <472984280-1400005036-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-667375619-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6VZ6yJ-qAKh7NkihSCA7a6JtZjO1od2=Lc5+hBHtjw6w@mail.gmail.com>

The Trustfire lights are anodized aluminum and the Buyers lights are powder
coated aluminum. The powder coating gives the impression of being
considerably more rugged, but we shall see in real life I suppose.



On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:17 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Alec:
>
> Are the housings made of Aluminum or Magnesium that would explain the
> white spots. Both are near the bottom of the galvanic  scale with zinc
> being the most sacrificial.
>
> John K.
> (203) 414-1000
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 11:08:51
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 04:52:26 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 09:52:26 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UBuMTB9V_wAQdrtYkSf3usXes0X=dz7gVS2NhjgjL=o1w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alec,
Those lights on your link look good.  Let us know how you get on with your
test next week, I and im sure others would be interested to know how they
perform.
Thanks
James

On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was all
> around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
> connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
> a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
> when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
> water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
> were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
> Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
> handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
> chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
> water, you will get stray currents between them.
>
> On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood lights
> intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really impressed with
> how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather than using the
> light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw that serves no
> visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill them with
> mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but with patience
> you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about an hour. The
> front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I have any
> bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a syringe with a
> "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use for filling
> things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are IP67, so
> supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable gland
> with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I think
> these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually off
> the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
> week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
> meantime.
>
>
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>>  Thanks Alan,
>> I have been searching too for some kind of easy and cheap solution.
>>  Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>>  Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> wrote:
>>   Hi James,
>> I bought 4 dive lights off deal extreme, but not a trustfire. This was in
>> addition
>> to 4 x 900 lumen torches I had bought previously.
>> To date I have found them unreliable, mainly in the switching function.
>> Most of them
>> have 3 to 5 modes, which only complicates things. I have been doing
>> searches for
>> 12V torches or flood lights, to make things easy. My latest posting of  a
>> link to a 12V flood light was
>> the best I've found so far ($20-).
>>
>>
>> http://www.dx.com/p/ip67-waterproof-10w-700lm-6500k-white-light-led-spotlight-underwater-lamp-silver-216504#.U2rDL_mSxLY
>>
>> There is room in it to put multiple high powered leds & it looks
>>   like the thread in the back is compatible with a 12mm Blue Globe cable
>> gland. There
>> are a multitude of reflectors on the Deal extreme site to choose from.
>> There is also space  at the front to put in an oring grove.
>> I'm sure we could come up with some good cheap underwater lighting
>> options under $100-
>> Alan
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2014 10:06 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>
>>  Hi Scott,
>>
>> I just bought a some trustfire diving lights (there was a discussion on
>> them a while ago).  Drilled and tapped a hole in the base, screwed in a
>> blue globe gland and they were good to go.  Very easy to make and they are
>> super bright.
>> Regards
>> James
>>
>> On 9 May 2014 20:18, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks Emile!
>> -Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>>  Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>  Scott,
>>
>> Attached the drawing how I made my lamps. It is open source now..
>>
>> I purchased the glass and reflectors from a German webshop .
>> http://shop.dev-pein.de/Selbstbau/Glaeser/
>>
>> Regards, Emile
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *via
>> Personal_Submersibles
>> *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 mei 2014 1:06
>> *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>
>>  Thanks Emile,
>>
>>  I have a lathe. Do you have any designs for light housings? Thank for
>> the link. I may go that route if I can't get my housings to stop leaking.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>  Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>  -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>> From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Date: Wed, May 07, 2014 11:24 am
>> To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>  Scott,
>>
>>  I made lamp housings for a while. But now I think it is better to
>> purchase lampheads for technical scuba diving.
>>  *http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv*<http://www.gralmarine.com/#!mainlightseng/cyrv>
>>   If you own a small lathe you can make them yourself.
>>
>>  Regards, Emile
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>  *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [
>> *mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>]
>> *Namens *swaters via Personal_Submersibles
>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 6 mei 2014 22:10
>> *Aan:* *personal_submersibles at psubs.org*<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>>
>>  Does anyone have a source for underwater pressure rated "can" lights or
>> light housings?
>>   Mine took on some water during the test. Amount of light was great,
>> just need better housings.
>>  Thanks,
>>  Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>  ------------------------------
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> *Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org* <Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> *http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles*<http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 08:09:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 08:09:52 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UBuMTB9V_wAQdrtYkSf3usXes0X=dz7gVS2NhjgjL=o1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBuMTB9V_wAQdrtYkSf3usXes0X=dz7gVS2NhjgjL=o1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53735D10.80300@psubs.org>

Alec,

How does the light of both compare to your eyes?  They are both listed 
at about the same lumen output.  The Trustfire uses three 1000 lumen 
CREE led's whereas this floodlight uses sixteen 200 (or so) lumen 
led's.  I realize the trustfire is more of a spotlight but just curious 
how they match up as perceived by your eyes in terms of total light output.

Jon


On 5/14/2014 4:52 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> Hi Alec,
> Those lights on your link look good.  Let us know how you get on with 
> your test next week, I and im sure others would be interested to know 
> how they perform.
> Thanks
> James
>
> On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>
>     I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience
>     was all around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to
>     a faulty connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The
>     factory shipped me a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh
>     water they worked well, but when I went to Islamorada last year
>     they lasted less than a day in the salt water. After just hours,
>     one stopped working altogether and both lights were very visibly
>     corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The Trustfire
>     lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
>     handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car
>     uses its chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such
>     lights in salt water, you will get stray currents between them.
>
>     On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED
>     flood lights intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been
>     really impressed with how solid these are. They are wired with two
>     cables, rather than using the light body as a ground. Second, they
>     have a little screw that serves no visible purpose, but which when
>     removed allows you to fill them with mineral oil. It took a while
>     to get the last bubbles out, but with patience you can fill these
>     with oil and remove all bubbles in about an hour. The front
>     plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I have any
>     bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a
>     syringe with a "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle
>     you use for filling things rather than giving someone an
>     injection. The lights are IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my
>     only mod was to reinforce the cable gland with some epoxy. We
>     shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I think these might
>     finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually off the
>     shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
>     week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in
>     the meantime.
>
>     http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>
>
>     Best,
>
>     Alec
>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 08:15:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 08:15:07 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <53735D10.80300@psubs.org>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBuMTB9V_wAQdrtYkSf3usXes0X=dz7gVS2NhjgjL=o1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <53735D10.80300@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <53735E4B.1020802@psubs.org>


Alec, one more question...is the mounting bracket stainless?




From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 09:15:41 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 06:15:41 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Problems
Message-ID: <20140514061541.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d672027026.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 14:52:34 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 11:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Problems
In-Reply-To: <20140514061541.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d672027026.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <1400093554.69554.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I use 1 gauge welding cable, saves power, no point burning amps to make heat.  Also I never worry about it.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/14/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Problems
 To: "psubs" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Wednesday, May 14, 2014, 9:15 AM
 
 Hey
 guys,
 ?
 I diagnosed the problems with the main motor and the
 sonar. I will have them fixed by the time we leave for
 Summersville Lake. For the main motor the wires had gotten
 hot and fused together and shorted out. Somehow my 36 Volt
 wire calculation was off a little because it took a mile of
 continuous run to get them this hot. I am switching them out
 for 6 gauge instead of the?8 gauge I had. The sonar I
 finally got. It has a 5 pin plug, but 7 wires. I finally
 figured out the ones twisted together do not go together,
 but are simply extras that the manufacturer didn't use.
 I should of figured this out sooner, but on well. Seems like
 everything is working well now. I am also hoping to have the
 compass/attitude indicator installed by then too.
 ?
 Thanks,
 Scott Waters
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 16:51:25 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 16:51:25 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Problems
In-Reply-To: <1400093554.69554.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140514061541.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d672027026.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <1400093554.69554.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnKvo5zLXPD9_w6Zrnt1GpVb6n=Ds2vgwYHPmWiJAxqJgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like a good idea Hank. ~ Douglas S.


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 2:52 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Scott,
> I use 1 gauge welding cable, saves power, no point burning amps to make
> heat.  Also I never worry about it.
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 5/14/14, via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Problems
>  To: "psubs" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received: Wednesday, May 14, 2014, 9:15 AM
>
>  Hey
>  guys,
>
>  I diagnosed the problems with the main motor and the
>  sonar. I will have them fixed by the time we leave for
>  Summersville Lake. For the main motor the wires had gotten
>  hot and fused together and shorted out. Somehow my 36 Volt
>  wire calculation was off a little because it took a mile of
>  continuous run to get them this hot. I am switching them out
>  for 6 gauge instead of the 8 gauge I had. The sonar I
>  finally got. It has a 5 pin plug, but 7 wires. I finally
>  figured out the ones twisted together do not go together,
>  but are simply extras that the manufacturer didn't use.
>  I should of figured this out sooner, but on well. Seems like
>  everything is working well now. I am also hoping to have the
>  compass/attitude indicator installed by then too.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Scott Waters
>
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 18:48:50 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:48:50 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] more annealing
Message-ID: <20140514154850.446789C2@m0048137.ppops.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 19:29:23 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 18:29:23 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Problems
Message-ID: <y2t8flt508cl0pyiirxhhxy6.1400110124548@email.android.com>

Only problem is my tru hull can not take something that big.
Thanks,
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott,
I use 1 gauge welding cable, saves power, no point burning amps to make heat.? Also I never worry about it.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/14/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Trustworthy Problems
To: "psubs" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Wednesday, May 14, 2014, 9:15 AM

Hey
guys,
?
I diagnosed the problems with the main motor and the
sonar. I will have them fixed by the time we leave for
Summersville Lake. For the main motor the wires had gotten
hot and fused together and shorted out. Somehow my 36 Volt
wire calculation was off a little because it took a mile of
continuous run to get them this hot. I am switching them out
for 6 gauge instead of the?8 gauge I had. The sonar I
finally got. It has a 5 pin plug, but 7 wires. I finally
figured out the ones twisted together do not go together,
but are simply extras that the manufacturer didn't use.
I should of figured this out sooner, but on well. Seems like
everything is working well now. I am also hoping to have the
compass/attitude indicator installed by then too.
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 19:40:48 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 18:40:48 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Factory tour
Message-ID: <7p8uny2pqvrp8udr8atajh33.1400110509848@email.android.com>

Hey guys,
I am on a business trip in Chicago and got to tour a very cool factory. The company name is safety socket and they make alot of parts for swagelok and parts for areospace and parts for military submarines. It was very interesting. They normally sell to a distributor who sells it again to the user. They specialize in titanium, 316 stainless, and other kinds of metal. The owner said if we ever need anything made he would be glad to do it for us at a discounted price. Anyway, it was neat seeing military submarine fastners being made and packaged to be sent to conneticut.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 14 22:43:27 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 21:43:27 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Message-ID: <nkg1uwav9n10yiqar6cweyro.1400121353558@email.android.com>

I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 01:02:11 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 01:02:11 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <nkg1uwav9n10yiqar6cweyro.1400121353558@email.android.com>
References: <nkg1uwav9n10yiqar6cweyro.1400121353558@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <53744A53.4010006@psubs.org>


Scott, just do it.  Follow your dream.  Sell the hardware stores and 
don't look back.  :)


On 5/14/2014 10:43 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and 
> cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in 
> the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil 
> Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a 
> curiousity of mine.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May  8 01:31:18 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <nkg1uwav9n10yiqar6cweyro.1400121353558@email.android.com>
References: <nkg1uwav9n10yiqar6cweyro.1400121353558@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <B2CF818A64E84EA5B3DBDA3D3FE9AC91@PhillPC>

Hi, Scott,
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the absence of a surface  tether. This allows you to go places that you shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ? inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,  you have a strong sense of where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the trending of the currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . .  Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real thing!
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
Phil

From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 01:27:30 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 23:27:30 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <nkg1uwav9n10yiqar6cweyro.1400121353558@email.android.com>
References: <nkg1uwav9n10yiqar6cweyro.1400121353558@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <40d1a975-eca3-4858-9cd8-27564f66bdc6@email.android.com>

I could think of a few advantages to untethered operation:

1) complete decoupling from surface motions, which is achievable with a ROV if you use a deployment cage and neutral secondary cable, but then weight and cost go up
2) if not using a cage, a large portion of the propulsive power is wasted just dragging the umbilical through the water
3) tethered operation requires keeping a turn count, which must be incremented or decremented according to whether the cable is above or below the vehicle
4) situational awareness. Even the best ROV fields of view leave blind spots, or at best require interpreting multiple camera angles, whereas a sub permits its operator to seamlessly shift his attention and field of view in an intuitive manner. Similarly, unless using stereoscopic cameras, ROV images are 2D. A sub operator has depth perception.

Sean


On May 14, 2014 8:43:27 PM MDT, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and
>cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in
>the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil
>Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a
>curiousity of mine.
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 08:40:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 07:40:49 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Message-ID: <8havrdys9wbks1vugw2jybl1.1400157389025@email.android.com>

Haha. Jon, you never know what the future will bring. A fee things about that though is I'd have to find a company willing to sell (I wouldn't start it from scratch) and it would have to have a good ROI with promising growth. My current company is 7 stores all very profitable now and we are growing by about a store per year. If I could keep that same amount of sucsess and it be in submarines / underwater work, I would do it.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Scott, just do it.? Follow your dream.? Sell the hardware stores and don't look back.? :)


On 5/14/2014 10:43 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 11:19:42 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 11:19:42 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <8havrdys9wbks1vugw2jybl1.1400157389025@email.android.com>
References: <8havrdys9wbks1vugw2jybl1.1400157389025@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnJK2hrOUsFLp-BMFq8EDhMnXqFfhSGN1=U00bCM19W3wA@mail.gmail.com>

Adding to Phil's analogy, watching something on TV just ain't as fun as
being there physically. I am not a "dare-devil" risk taker, but I have to
admit a large part of my interest in submersibles is the excitement of
knowing that there is more at risk than an expensive machine. ~ Douglas S.



On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:40 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Haha. Jon, you never know what the future will bring. A fee things about
> that though is I'd have to find a company willing to sell (I wouldn't start
> it from scratch) and it would have to have a good ROI with promising
> growth. My current company is 7 stores all very profitable now and we are
> growing by about a store per year. If I could keep that same amount of
> sucsess and it be in submarines / underwater work, I would do it.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
>
> Scott, just do it.  Follow your dream.  Sell the hardware stores and don't
> look back.  :)
>
>
> On 5/14/2014 10:43 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and
> cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the
> commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has
> been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 16:20:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 15:20:35 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Message-ID: <s9e7d2qkyvfdgme9jl4a7dfg.1400185229326@email.android.com>

Douglas,
I deffenetly understand the analogy and feeling. To the commercial market their number one concern is money. Make the most money and reduce as much loss as possible. Commercial companies don't care about the feeling. I am just wondering what makes a commercial company choose a sub over a rov?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:I could think of a few advantages to untethered operation:

1) complete decoupling from surface motions, which is achievable with a ROV if you use a deployment cage and neutral secondary cable, but then weight and cost go up
2) if not using a cage, a large portion of the propulsive power is wasted just dragging the umbilical through the water
3) tethered operation requires keeping a turn count, which must be incremented or decremented according to whether the cable is above or below the vehicle
4) situational awareness. Even the best ROV fields of view leave blind spots, or at best require interpreting multiple camera angles, whereas a sub permits its operator to seamlessly shift his attention and field of view in an intuitive manner. Similarly, unless using stereoscopic cameras, ROV images are 2D. A sub operator has depth perception.

Sean


On May 14, 2014 8:43:27 PM MDT, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 17:20:10 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 14:20:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ6VZ6yJ-qAKh7NkihSCA7a6JtZjO1od2=Lc5+hBHtjw6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBMTYE=Yiu+=g25WRZsRPJCLQHUVuBQkPQnnTphDF2Czg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ7qSdaSixase_tAwQBymo20UDELadRfdxHu+UA+vawO+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <472984280-1400005036-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-667375619-@b4.c7.bise6.blackberry>
 <CABECYQ6VZ6yJ-qAKh7NkihSCA7a6JtZjO1od2=Lc5+hBHtjw6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1400188810.553.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Just downloaded the Sea Technologies buyers guide,
Sea Tech Buyers Guide - 2014

 
   Sea Tech Buyers Guide - 2014
The Sea Technology Buyers Guide/Directory is the only complete directory serving the ocean/marine/offshore communit...  
View on stbuyersguide.epubxp.com Preview by Yahoo  
One of the companies I looked at was an underwater housing manufacturer called Prevco.
Their alluminium housings are anodized & all housings have a double piston seal as a standard configuration.
Some even have two face seals & two piston seals. Great to know how the experts do it.
http://prevco.com/products/subsea-housings/seal-configuration

Alan


________________________________
 From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
 


The Trustfire lights are anodized aluminum and the Buyers lights are powder coated aluminum. The powder coating gives the impression of being considerably more rugged, but we shall see in real life I suppose.?




On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:17 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alec:
>
>Are the housings made of Aluminum or Magnesium that would explain the white spots. Both are near the bottom of the galvanic ?scale with zinc being the most sacrificial.
>
>John K.
>(203) 414-1000
>Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sender: Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org>
>Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 11:08:51
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>Reply-to: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>?<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>


_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 19:06:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:06:00 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Message-ID: <e99u16nwjl1qkaw1lw7gc5t1.1400194832247@email.android.com>

Phil,
That really clears it up alot. I know business has been good for you based on how busy you have been. That is awesome. I know all of us business owners strive to remain relevant and it seems you have done well. I face the struggle every day in a shrinking market place due to the big box stores. We have seemed to carve out our niche and have really started to grow alot, but it is a deffenet fight tooth and nail. I buy alot of inventory from a company in Calgary and they have been wanting me to visit there factory for years. Iam going to figure out how I can make a Canada trip and visit you and write it off as a business expense :)
Thank you,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphonePhil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi, Scott,
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the absence of a surface? tether. This allows you to go places that you shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ? inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,? you have a strong sense of where  everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,? the trending of the currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines do  get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . .? Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real thing!
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
Phil
?
From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
?
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 19:38:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:38:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <e99u16nwjl1qkaw1lw7gc5t1.1400194832247@email.android.com>
References: <e99u16nwjl1qkaw1lw7gc5t1.1400194832247@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400197133.83221.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
>>>> Iam going to figure out how I can make a Canada trip and visit you and write it off as a business expense :)


? ?Buy some submarine parts off Phil & sell them at a loss to psubbers via an internet sales arm of your
business.
Alan

________________________________
 From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
 


Phil,
That really clears it up alot. I know business has been good for you based on how busy you have been. That is awesome. I know all of us business owners strive to remain relevant and it seems you have done well. I face the struggle every day in a shrinking market place due to the big box stores. We have seemed to carve out our niche and have really started to grow alot, but it is a deffenet fight tooth and nail. I buy alot of inventory from a company in Calgary and they have been wanting me to visit there factory for years. Iam going to figure out how I can make a Canada trip and visit you and write it off as a business expense :)
Thank you,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Hi, Scott,
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the 
absence of a surface? tether. This allows you to go places that you 
shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ? 
inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons 
that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than a 
half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that ROV 
operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a 
wide view port or a 360 degree dome,? you have a strong sense of where 
everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction it?s in to 
go back to, the lay of the bottom,? the trending of the currents, where to 
find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins, the ability to hit 
?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline or cable regardless of 
the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When it comes to doing 
complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines do 
get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and with many 
tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet away from 
the work .
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . 
.? Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real 
thing!
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
Phil
?
From: swaters via 
Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
?
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and 
cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the 
commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been 
able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? 
Smartphone
________________________________
 _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing 
list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 19:45:23 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:45:23 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Message-ID: <eoo23a0dk3uptdtk00or01vf.1400197473526@email.android.com>

Ugggg. E-commerece is such a pain in the ass for my business. Hahaha.?
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott,
>>>> Iam going to figure out how I can make a Canada trip and visit you and write it off as a business expense :)

? ?Buy some submarine parts off Phil & sell them at a loss to psubbers via an internet sales arm of your
business.
Alan
From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

Phil,
That really clears it up alot. I know business has been good for you based on how busy you have been. That is awesome. I know all of us business owners strive to remain relevant and it seems you have done well. I face the struggle every day in a shrinking market place due to the big box stores. We have seemed to carve out our niche and have really started to grow alot, but it is a deffenet fight tooth and nail. I buy alot of inventory from a company in Calgary and they have been wanting me to visit there factory for years. Iam going to figure out how I can make a Canada trip and visit you and write it off as a business expense :)
Thank you,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hi, Scott,
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the absence of a surface? tether. This allows you to go places that you shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ? inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,? you have a strong sense of where  everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,? the trending of the currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines do  get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . .? Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real thing!
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
Phil
?
From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
?
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 19:52:58 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <eoo23a0dk3uptdtk00or01vf.1400197473526@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400197978.6993.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Scott,
I will take two Magnetic coupled thrusters 
 and an arm please.  Do you take pay pal :-)
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/15/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 7:45 PM
 
 Ugggg.
 E-commerece is such a pain in the ass for my business.
 Hahaha.?-Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Scott,>>>> Iam going to figure
 out how I can make a Canada trip and visit you and write it
 off as a business expense :)
 
 ?
 ?Buy some submarine parts off Phil & sell them at a
 loss to psubbers via an internet
  sales arm of yourbusiness.Alan      
 
 From: swaters via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: Personal Submersibles
 General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
  Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014
 11:06 AM
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
    
 Phil,That
 really clears it up alot. I know business has been good for
 you based on how busy you have been. That is awesome. I know
 all of us business owners strive to remain relevant and it
 seems you have done well. I face the struggle every day in a
 shrinking market place due to the big box stores. We have
 seemed to carve out our niche and have really started to
 grow alot, but it is a deffenet fight tooth and nail. I buy
 alot of inventory from a company in Calgary and they have
 been wanting me to visit there factory for years. Iam going
 to figure out how I can make a Canada trip and visit you and
 write it off as a business expense
  :)Thank
 you,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent from my U.S. Cellular?
 Smartphone 
 Phil Nuytten via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 
 
 Hi, Scott,
 The major reason that
 quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the 
 absence of a surface? tether. This allows you to go
 places that you 
 shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the
 risk of entanglement ? 
 inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number
 of other reasons 
 that have to do with the operators senses being right on the
 site rather than a 
 half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole
 grasp? scenario that ROV 
 operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply
 put, in a sub with a 
 wide view port or a 360 degree dome,? you have a strong
 sense of where 
 everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline,
 what direction it?s in to 
 go back to, the lay of the bottom,? the trending of the
 currents, where to 
 find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current
 pins, the ability to hit 
 ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline
 or cable regardless of 
 the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When
 it comes to doing 
 complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus
 machines. Machines do 
 get the work done if they are set up properly, but much
 slower and with many 
 tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is
 five feet away from 
 the work .
 You often hear ROV types
 say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . 
 .? Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as
 the real 
 thing!
 I?ll get off my
 soapbox now.
 Phil
 
 
 ?
 
 From: swaters via 
 Personal_Submersibles 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
 
 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial
 question
 ?
 
 I have always heard that
 ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and 
 cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of
 submarines in the 
 commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like
 Phil Nuyten has been 
 able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of
 mine.
 Thanks,
 Scott Waters
 ?
 ?
 ?
 ?
 
 Sent from my U.S. Cellular? 
 Smartphone
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing 
 list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 19:57:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:57:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjnJK2hrOUsFLp-BMFq8EDhMnXqFfhSGN1=U00bCM19W3wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8havrdys9wbks1vugw2jybl1.1400157389025@email.android.com>
 <CAOGJjnJK2hrOUsFLp-BMFq8EDhMnXqFfhSGN1=U00bCM19W3wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D13EB0856ECE52-31FC-173D4@webmail-m237.sysops.aol.com>

The old Navy adage suits: We are not here to avoid risk, we are here to manage it.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Thu, May 15, 2014 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question


Adding to Phil's analogy, watching something on TV just ain't as fun as being there physically. I am not a "dare-devil" risk taker, but I have to admit a large part of my interest in submersibles is the excitement of knowing that there is more at risk than an expensive machine. ~ Douglas S.   



On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:40 AM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


Haha. Jon, you never know what the future will bring. A fee things about that though is I'd have to find a company willing to sell (I wouldn't start it from scratch) and it would have to have a good ROI with promising growth. My current company is 7 stores all very profitable now and we are growing by about a store per year. If I could keep that same amount of sucsess and it be in submarines / underwater work, I would do it. 

Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 

Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    


      Scott, just do it.  Follow your dream.  Sell the hardware stores      and don't look back.  :)
      
      

      On 5/14/2014 10:43 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
    

    
            
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less        risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages        of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry?        It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with        submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
      
Thanks,
      
Scott Waters
      
    
    
  

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 20:04:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
Message-ID: <1400198640.46289.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny Craig.  My new AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a 60 to 65 lb weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma needs to shed some lbs before I can take a passenger.  I can switch to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight saving there.  I can make an aluminum rudder and a few other parts also.
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 20:17:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <1400198640.46289.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1400198640.46289.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1400199472.51508.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
a simple solution would be to?just have a number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.
He has them in a tube, but if the floats had attachment holes you could
tether them & clip them on or off.
Alan




________________________________
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 

Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny Craig.? My new AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a 60 to 65 lb weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma needs to shed some lbs before I can take a passenger.? I can switch to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight saving there.? I can make an aluminum rudder and a few other parts also.
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 20:26:45 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 20:26:45 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <53735D10.80300@psubs.org>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBuMTB9V_wAQdrtYkSf3usXes0X=dz7gVS2NhjgjL=o1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <53735D10.80300@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ4w7=sPBej3oDw4FSx_f4tjDPof4SagBCsrhvXPOyufLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jon,

I tried one side by side with a Trustfire just now and it's actually really
hard to tell. Its just that the Trustfire is a pencil thin beam and the new
ones are the exact opposite. That in itself should be an advantage for the
new ones. In a pinch, I'd say they are about the same total output, but
that's very very approximate. One thing I wonder about... the new lights
have a very wide operating range of voltage, they work with anything from
12V to 48V. I'm running them on 12V and wonder whether higher voltage would
equate to higher output.

To answer your other question, the mounting bracket is stainless. I'm
thoroughly impressed by the build quality, they didn't skimp on these.


Best,

Alec


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>  Alec,
>
> How does the light of both compare to your eyes?  They are both listed at
> about the same lumen output.  The Trustfire uses three 1000 lumen CREE
> led's whereas this floodlight uses sixteen 200 (or so) lumen led's.  I
> realize the trustfire is more of a spotlight but just curious how they
> match up as perceived by your eyes in terms of total light output.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> On 5/14/2014 4:52 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> Hi Alec,
> Those lights on your link look good.  Let us know how you get on with your
> test next week, I and im sure others would be interested to know how they
> perform.
> Thanks
> James
>
>  On 13 May 2014 14:02, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> I used Trustfire lights for a season on Snoopy but the experience was all
>> around bad. I bought two, one of which did not work due to a faulty
>> connection at the endcap (which acts like a switch). The factory shipped me
>> a new end-cap that fixed the problem. In fresh water they worked well, but
>> when I went to Islamorada last year they lasted less than a day in the salt
>> water. After just hours, one stopped working altogether and both lights
>> were very visibly corroded. Silly me, I hadn't thought this through. The
>> Trustfire lights close the circuit when you screw in the endcap on the
>> handle. They use the light body itself as a conductor, like a car uses its
>> chassis. I think the issue is that if you put two such lights in salt
>> water, you will get stray currents between them.
>>
>>  On next week's dive I'll be testing new lights, which are LED flood
>> lights intended for tractors or off road vehicles. I've been really
>> impressed with how solid these are. They are wired with two cables, rather
>> than using the light body as a ground. Second, they have a little screw
>> that serves no visible purpose, but which when removed allows you to fill
>> them with mineral oil. It took a while to get the last bubbles out, but
>> with patience you can fill these with oil and remove all bubbles in about
>> an hour. The front plastic has a little give to absorb the compression if I
>> have any bubbles left, but I think I have none. To fill them I used a
>> syringe with a "dispenser needle" which is a blunt syringe needle you use
>> for filling things rather than giving someone an injection. The lights are
>> IP67, so supposedly water-tight, but my only mod was to reinforce the cable
>> gland with some epoxy. We shall see how they work, but my hopes are up, I
>> think these might finally be the ideal sub lights and can be used virtually
>> off the shelf. I recommend not buying them until Snoopy returns from next
>> week's dive, but here is the link if you want to take a look in the
>> meantime.
>>
>>
>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>>
>>
>>  Best,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 20:51:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <1400199472.51508.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1400201467.13543.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the outside.  Gamma is very slippery the way it is.  I am confident I can shed the weight.  I have been weighing all the bits and it looks doable.  I am also looking at a winter project for Gamma.  I would like to have the arm, and valve and a couple of positioning  thrusters on a common chassis, like the DW's.  I could reduce the weight of the lead drop weight because the entire assembly would be the drop weight.  That also solves the weight problem from the batteries.  I would use the original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 8:17 PM
 
 Hank,a
 simple solution would be to?just have a
 number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
 has them in a tube, but if the floats had attachment holes
 you couldtether
 them & clip them on or off.Alan
 
       
  From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To:
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent: Friday,
 May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
  Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
    
 Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny Craig.? My new
 AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a 60 to 65 lb
 weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma needs to shed
 some lbs before I can take a passenger.? I can switch
 to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight saving
 there.? I can make an aluminum rudder and a few other
 parts also.
 Hank
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 21:05:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 21:05:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
Message-ID: <6d841.74912d87.40a6be5c@aol.com>

Hank,
Do you have room in your MBTs and reasonable access for small trawl  
floats?  That wouldn't give you all of the additional needed buoyancy, but  it 
could make a contribution if they could be secured where they would not  
interfere with anything including visibility.  http://trawlworks.com/floats.htm
Maybe some iteration of lithium is in your future.
Jim T.
 
 
In a message dated 5/15/2014 7:52:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Alan,
That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the  outside.  Gamma is 
very slippery the way it is.  I am confident I  can shed the weight.  I 
have been weighing all the bits and it looks  doable.  I am also looking at a 
winter project for Gamma.  I would  like to have the arm, and valve and a 
couple of positioning  thrusters on  a common chassis, like the DW's.  I could 
reduce the weight of the lead  drop weight because the entire assembly would 
be the drop weight.  That  also solves the weight problem from the 
batteries.  I would use the  original drop weight screw to drop the new  assembly.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu,  5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
To: "Personal Submersibles General  Discussion" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Thursday, May  15, 2014, 8:17 PM

Hank,a
simple solution would be to just have  a
number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
has them in a tube, but if the  floats had attachment holes
you couldtether
them & clip them on or  off.Alan


From: hank pronk  via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To:
personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Friday,
May 16,  2014 12:04 PM
Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a  diet

Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny Craig.   My new
AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a 60 to 65  lb
weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma needs to shed
some lbs  before I can take a passenger.  I can switch
to aluminum scuba tanks,  not sure the weight saving
there.  I can make an aluminum rudder and a  few other
parts  also.
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



-----Inline Attachment  Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 21:14:20 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:14:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <6d841.74912d87.40a6be5c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1400202860.75840.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jim,
I am sure after many dives over the summer, many plans will be made and changed.  I may want range extending battery pods or a diesel engine.  It is fun to day dream about this.  I am not allowed to drive when we work out of town because I am a danger from being distracted over this stuff. :-)  
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/15/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 9:05 PM
 
 
 
  
  
 
 Hank,
 Do you have room in your MBTs and
 reasonable?access for small trawl 
 floats?? That wouldn't give you all of the
 additional needed buoyancy, but 
 it could make a contribution if they could be secured where
 they would not 
 interfere with anything including visibility.? http://trawlworks.com/floats.htm
 Maybe some iteration of lithium is in your
 future.
 Jim T.
 ?
 
 In a message dated 5/15/2014 7:52:12 P.M. Central
 Daylight Time, 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
 Alan,
 That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the 
   outside.? Gamma is very slippery the way it is.?
 I am confident I 
   can shed the weight.? I have been weighing all the
 bits and it looks 
   doable.? I am also looking at a winter project for
 Gamma.? I would 
   like to have the arm, and valve and a couple of
 positioning? thrusters on 
   a common chassis, like the DW's.? I could reduce
 the weight of the lead 
   drop weight because the entire assembly would be the drop
 weight.? That 
   also solves the weight problem from the batteries.? I
 would use the 
   original drop weight screw to drop the new 
   assembly.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 
   5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: 
   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General 
   Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 
   15, 2014, 8:17 PM
 
 Hank,a
 simple solution would be to?just have 
   a
 number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
 has them in a tube, but if the 
   floats had attachment holes
 you couldtether
 them & clip them on or 
   off.Alan
 
 ? ? ?? 
 ? From: hank pronk 
   via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
   To:
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
 ? Sent: Friday,
 May 16, 
   2014 12:04 PM
 ? Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a 
   diet
 ? ? 
 Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny Craig.? 
   My new
 AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a 60 to 65 
   lb
 weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma needs to shed
 some lbs 
   before I can take a passenger.? I can switch
 to aluminum scuba tanks, 
   not sure the weight saving
 there.? I can make an aluminum rudder and a 
   few other
 parts 
   also.
 Hank
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 ? 
   ?? 
 -----Inline Attachment 
   Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 15 22:09:58 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 22:09:58 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lights
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ4w7=sPBej3oDw4FSx_f4tjDPof4SagBCsrhvXPOyufLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fai8kfjlknip43a4ay9i88eh.1399982121144@email.android.com>
 <CABECYQ6jBnESbE5fo8ikD2XYi5-KErVasOYFRHE-a5CQS5Qi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UBuMTB9V_wAQdrtYkSf3usXes0X=dz7gVS2NhjgjL=o1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <53735D10.80300@psubs.org>
 <CABECYQ4w7=sPBej3oDw4FSx_f4tjDPof4SagBCsrhvXPOyufLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53757376.40503@psubs.org>


Sounds like a Ken Martindale question.  However I suspect that there's a 
voltage regulator inside that just drops the higher voltage to the 12 
volt minimum.  Looking forward to your report on them.

Jon


On 5/15/2014 8:26 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> I'm running them on 12V and wonder whether higher voltage would equate 
> to higher output.
>

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 16 17:32:45 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 14:32:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] steel versus  alum tanks
Message-ID: <1400275965.19423.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Steel scuba tanks are lighter than aluminum scuba tanks, who knew!
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 16 19:12:01 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 17:12:01 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <1400201467.13543.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1400201467.13543.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53769B41.7010107@telus.net>

There's always the not-so-easy but very elegant solution of syntactic
foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.  Go bigger than you need to
accommodate future expansion, and compensate in the meantime with keel
weight.  Would improve stability, too.

Sean


On 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> Alan,
> That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the outside.  Gamma is very slippery the way it is.  I am confident I can shed the weight.  I have been weighing all the bits and it looks doable.  I am also looking at a winter project for Gamma.  I would like to have the arm, and valve and a couple of positioning  thrusters on a common chassis, like the DW's.  I could reduce the weight of the lead drop weight because the entire assembly would be the drop weight.  That also solves the weight problem from the batteries.  I would use the original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
>  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 8:17 PM
>  
>  Hank,a
>  simple solution would be to just have a
>  number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
>  has them in a tube, but if the floats had attachment holes
>  you couldtether
>  them & clip them on or off.Alan
>  
>        
>   From: hank pronk via
>  Personal_Submersibles
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>   To:
>  personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>   Sent: Friday,
>  May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
>   Subject:
>  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
>     
>  Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny Craig.  My new
>  AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a 60 to 65 lb
>  weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma needs to shed
>  some lbs before I can take a passenger.  I can switch
>  to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight saving
>  there.  I can make an aluminum rudder and a few other
>  parts also.
>  Hank
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>  
>  
>      
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>  
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 16 19:23:23 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 16:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <53769B41.7010107@telus.net>
Message-ID: <1400282603.51722.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Sean,
For sure that is a solution, and it may come to that.  I am in no hurry to take a passenger and the weight is fine for one person.  As for stability, I am happy to report that I can stand on the deck and hop inside with no worries. But your right, more stability is always good.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
 
 There's always the not-so-easy but
 very elegant solution of syntactic
 foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.? Go bigger than you
 need to
 accommodate future expansion, and compensate in the meantime
 with keel
 weight.? Would improve stability, too.
 
 Sean
 
 
 On 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 wrote:
 > Alan,
 > That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the
 outside.? Gamma is very slippery the way it is.? I
 am confident I can shed the weight.? I have been
 weighing all the bits and it looks doable.? I am also
 looking at a winter project for Gamma.? I would like to
 have the arm, and valve and a couple of positioning?
 thrusters on a common chassis, like the DW's.? I could
 reduce the weight of the lead drop weight because the entire
 assembly would be the drop weight.? That also solves
 the weight problem from the batteries.? I would use the
 original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.
 > Hank
 > --------------------------------------------
 > On Thu, 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 >
 >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 >? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >? Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 8:17 PM
 >? 
 >? Hank,a
 >? simple solution would be to just have a
 >? number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
 >? has them in a tube, but if the floats had
 attachment holes
 >? you couldtether
 >? them & clip them on or off.Alan
 >? 
 >? ? ? ? 
 >???From: hank pronk via
 >? Personal_Submersibles
 >? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >???To:
 >? personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 
 >???Sent: Friday,
 >? May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
 >???Subject:
 >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 >? ???
 >? Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny
 Craig.? My new
 >? AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
 60 to 65 lb
 >? weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma
 needs to shed
 >? some lbs before I can take a passenger.? I
 can switch
 >? to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight
 saving
 >? there.? I can make an aluminum rudder and a
 few other
 >? parts also.
 >? Hank
 >? _______________________________________________
 >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >? 
 >? 
 >? ? ? 
 >? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 >? 
 >? _______________________________________________
 >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >? 
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 15:55:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 14:55:49 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015
Message-ID: <wymnfjvih2cod9lpbd7eqyra.1400356357134@email.android.com>

Hey guys,
I am planning the Psubs conference for 2015. There are 3 current possable spots.
*Woods Hole and submarine Alvin tour.
*USS Nautilus museum in Conneticut
*Florida Keys

Any other suggestions are welcome. I will be working on this and keep everyone posted.

Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 18:09:46 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 15:09:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <53769B41.7010107@telus.net>
Message-ID: <1400364586.10040.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

How is syntactic foam made.  I once experimented with 3/4inch plastic water line (pex pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now. I heated the end of a piece and it melted shut nicely.  So I planned to make a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a bundle of them inside a pvc pipe.  Then fill the void with poly urethane molding resin.  It would be cheap and pretty tough.  Perhaps an experiment is in order, unless there is a better idea out there.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
 
 There's always the not-so-easy but
 very elegant solution of syntactic
 foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.? Go bigger than you
 need to
 accommodate future expansion, and compensate in the meantime
 with keel
 weight.? Would improve stability, too.
 
 Sean
 
 
 On 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 wrote:
 > Alan,
 > That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the
 outside.? Gamma is very slippery the way it is.? I
 am confident I can shed the weight.? I have been
 weighing all the bits and it looks doable.? I am also
 looking at a winter project for Gamma.? I would like to
 have the arm, and valve and a couple of positioning?
 thrusters on a common chassis, like the DW's.? I could
 reduce the weight of the lead drop weight because the entire
 assembly would be the drop weight.? That also solves
 the weight problem from the batteries.? I would use the
 original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.
 > Hank
 > --------------------------------------------
 > On Thu, 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 >
 >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 >? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >? Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 8:17 PM
 >? 
 >? Hank,a
 >? simple solution would be to just have a
 >? number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
 >? has them in a tube, but if the floats had
 attachment holes
 >? you couldtether
 >? them & clip them on or off.Alan
 >? 
 >? ? ? ? 
 >???From: hank pronk via
 >? Personal_Submersibles
 >? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >???To:
 >? personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 
 >???Sent: Friday,
 >? May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
 >???Subject:
 >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 >? ???
 >? Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny
 Craig.? My new
 >? AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
 60 to 65 lb
 >? weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma
 needs to shed
 >? some lbs before I can take a passenger.? I
 can switch
 >? to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight
 saving
 >? there.? I can make an aluminum rudder and a
 few other
 >? parts also.
 >? Hank
 >? _______________________________________________
 >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >? 
 >? 
 >? ? ? 
 >? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 >? 
 >? _______________________________________________
 >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >? 
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 >
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 18:34:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 16:34:35 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <1400364586.10040.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1400364586.10040.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8e6ceb67-171c-4ed3-983a-2dcff07af2e9@email.android.com>

Hollow glass microspheres in a (typically) epoxy matrix. The spheres are so small, they're more like a powder (for a deep / dense foam. Shallower foams will incorporate larger spheres). Mix the composite with the highest possible volume fraction of glass to resin.

Sean


On May 17, 2014 4:09:46 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>How is syntactic foam made.  I once experimented with 3/4inch plastic
>water line (pex pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now. I heated the
>end of a piece and it melted shut nicely.  So I planned to make a bunch
>of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a bundle of them inside
>a pvc pipe.  Then fill the void with poly urethane molding resin.  It
>would be cheap and pretty tough.  Perhaps an experiment is in order,
>unless there is a better idea out there.
>Hank
>--------------------------------------------
>On Fri, 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
> 
> There's always the not-so-easy but
> very elegant solution of syntactic
> foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.? Go bigger than you
> need to
> accommodate future expansion, and compensate in the meantime
> with keel
> weight.? Would improve stability, too.
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> On 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> wrote:
> > Alan,
> > That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the
> outside.? Gamma is very slippery the way it is.? I
> am confident I can shed the weight.? I have been
> weighing all the bits and it looks doable.? I am also
> looking at a winter project for Gamma.? I would like to
> have the arm, and valve and a couple of positioning?
> thrusters on a common chassis, like the DW's.? I could
> reduce the weight of the lead drop weight because the entire
> assembly would be the drop weight.? That also solves
> the weight problem from the batteries.? I would use the
> original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.
> > Hank
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Thu, 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
> >? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> >? Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 8:17 PM
> >? 
> >? Hank,a
> >? simple solution would be to just have a
> >? number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
> >? has them in a tube, but if the floats had
> attachment holes
> >? you couldtether
> >? them & clip them on or off.Alan
> >? 
> >? ? ? ? 
> >???From: hank pronk via
> >? Personal_Submersibles
> >? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> >???To:
> >? personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> 
> >???Sent: Friday,
> >? May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
> >???Subject:
> >? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
> >? ???
> >? Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny
> Craig.? My new
> >? AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
> 60 to 65 lb
> >? weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma
> needs to shed
> >? some lbs before I can take a passenger.? I
> can switch
> >? to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight
> saving
> >? there.? I can make an aluminum rudder and a
> few other
> >? parts also.
> >? Hank
> >? _______________________________________________
> >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >? 
> >? 
> >? ? ? 
> >? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >? 
> >? _______________________________________________
> >? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >? 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 18:43:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 18:43:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Magnetic cooling
Message-ID: <6fca6.76cd94.40a93ff4@aol.com>

Joe (et al),
Since interior cooling of your sub is a major concern in your  climate, 
here's something to keep your mind occupied for a while.  It will  be very 
interesting to see the application of the technology develop.  It  would also be 
applicable to lower energy consumption on a support boat based  unit [three 
links].
Jim T
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_cooling
 
http://www.geglobalresearch.com/innovation/magnetocaloric-materials-chill-ne
xt-generation-refrigerators
 
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/176393-ge-develops-high-tech-fridge-magne
ts-that-could-save-the-world-billions-of-dollars-in-energy-costs
 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 18:58:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 18:58:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
Message-ID: <7006e.22eee57f.40a943b3@aol.com>

Hank,
What's the capacity of your MBTs (lbs or liters)?   In Gamma's present 
configuration, how many lbs or liters would you  have to take into your MBTs to 
reach neutral buoyancy with a standard 170  lb (77 kg) pilot (or any other 
convenient reference)?  Yeah, I'm a bit  over 'standard' too.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/17/2014 5:35:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Hollow glass microspheres in a (typically) epoxy matrix. The  spheres are 
so small, they're more like a powder (for a deep / dense foam.  Shallower 
foams will incorporate larger spheres). Mix the composite with the  highest 
possible volume fraction of glass to resin. 
Sean


On May 17, 2014 4:09:46 PM MDT, hank pronk via  Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  
How is syntactic foam made.  I once experimented with 3/4inch plastic water 
line (pex pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now. I heated the end of a 
piece and it melted shut nicely.  So I planned to make a bunch of pipes with 
both ends melted shut then slide a bundle of them inside a pvc pipe.  Then 
fill the void with poly urethane molding resin.  It would be cheap and 
pretty tough.  Perhaps an experiment is in order, unless there is a better idea 
out there.
Hank
 
____________________________________

On Fri, 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
 
 There's always the not-so-easy but
 very elegant solution of syntactic
 foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.  Go bigger than you
 need to


accommodate future expansion, and compensate in the meantime
 with keel
 weight.  Would improve stability, too.
 
 Sean
 
 
 On 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 wrote:

 Alan,
 That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the

 outside.  Gamma is very slippery the way it is.  I
 am confident I can shed the weight.  I have been
 weighing all the bits and it looks doable.  I am also
 looking at a winter project for Gamma.  I would like to
 have the arm, and valve and a couple of positioning 
 thrusters on a common chassis, like the DW's.  I could
 reduce the weight of the lead drop weight because the entire
 assembly would be the drop weight.  That also solves
 the weight problem from the batteries.  I would use the
 original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.

 Hank
 
____________________________________

 On Thu, 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles

 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:


  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"

 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

  Received: Thursday, May 15, 2014, 8:17 PM
  
  Hank,a
  simple solution would be to just have a
  number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
  has them in a tube, but if the floats had

 attachment holes

  you couldtether
  them & clip them on or off.Alan
  
        
   From: hank pronk via
  Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   To:
  personal_submersibles at psubs.org

 

   Sent: Friday,
  May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
   Subject:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
     
  Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny

 Craig.  My new

  AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a

 60 to 65 lb

  weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma

 needs to shed

  some lbs before I can take a passenger.  I

 can switch

  to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight

 saving

  there.  I can make an aluminum rudder and a

 few other

  parts also.
  Hank
 
____________________________________

  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
      
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
 
____________________________________

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  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  

 
____________________________________

 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
 
____________________________________

 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

 
____________________________________

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:04:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 16:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <8e6ceb67-171c-4ed3-983a-2dcff07af2e9@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400367852.45667.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Sean,
Very interesting, I just googled glass microspheres and this is very doable.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/17/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 6:34 PM
 
 Hollow
 glass microspheres in a (typically) epoxy matrix. The
 spheres are so small, they're more like a powder (for a
 deep / dense foam. Shallower foams will incorporate larger
 spheres). Mix the composite with the highest possible volume
 fraction of glass to resin.
 Sean
 
 
 
 
 On May 17, 2014
 4:09:46 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 How is syntactic foam made.
  I once experimented with 3/4inch plastic water line (pex
 pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now. I heated the end
 of a piece and it melted shut nicely.  So I planned to make
 a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a
 bundle of them inside a pvc pipe.  Then fill the void with
 poly urethane molding resin.  It would be cheap and pretty
 tough.  Perhaps an experiment is in order, unless there is a
 better idea out there.
 Hank
 
 On Fri,
 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
  To:
 "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received:
 Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
  
  There's
 always the not-so-easy but
  very elegant solution of
 syntactic
  foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.?? Go
 bigger than you
  need to
 
 accommodate future expansion, and compensate in the
 meantime
  with keel
  weight.?? Would improve
 stability, too.
  
  Sean
  
  
  On
 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 
 wrote:
  Alan,
  That would work but
 I want to keep the sub clean on the
 
 outside.?? Gamma is very slippery the way it is.?? I
  am confident I can shed the weight.?? I have been
 
 weighing all the bits and it looks doable.?? I am also
  looking at a winter project for Gamma.?? I would like
 to
  have the arm, and valve and a couple of
 positioning??
  thrusters on a common chassis, like
 the DW's.?? I could
  reduce the weight of the
 lead drop weight because the entire
  assembly would be
 the drop weight.?? That also solves
  the weight
 problem from the batteries.?? I would use the
  
 original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.
  Hank
 
  On Thu,
 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
 
 ?? Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 ?? To:
 "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ?? Received: Thursday, May 15,
 2014, 8:17 PM
 ?? 
 ?? Hank,a
 ?? simple
 solution would be to just have a
 ?? number of floats
 like Alec's Snoopy.He
 ?? has them in a tube, but
 if the floats had
  attachment ho!
  les
 ?? you couldtether
 ??
 them & clip them on or off.Alan
 ?? 
 ??
 ?? ?? ?? 
 ??????From: hank pronk via
 ?? Personal_Submersibles
 ??
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ??????To:
 ??
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  
 ??????Sent: Friday,
 ?? May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
 ??????Subject:
 ?? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 ??
 ??????
 ?? Gamma or the pilot needs to go to
 Jenny
  Craig.?? My new
 ??
 AGM batteries weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
  60 to 65 lb
 ??
 weight budget, per battery. That means Gamma
  needs to shed
 ??
 some lbs before I can take a passenger.?? I
  can switch
 ??
 to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the weight
  saving
 ??
 there.?? I can make an aluminum rudder and a
  few other
 ??
 parts also.
 ?? Hank
 
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?!
  ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ?? 
 ?? 
 ?? ?? ?? 
 ??
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ?? 
 
 ?? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ?? 
 
 
  Personal_Submersibles
 mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  !
  
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
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 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:07:01 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 16:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <7006e.22eee57f.40a943b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1400368021.20106.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jim,
Honestly I do not know the volume of my MBT's
I fill the mbt's entirely except for 1 imperial gallon (10 lbs)
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/17/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 6:58 PM
 
 
 
  
  
 
 Hank,
 What's the capacity of your MBTs
 (lbs or liters)?? 
 In?Gamma's present configuration, how many
 lbs or liters would you 
 have to take into your MBTs to reach neutral?buoyancy
 with a standard 170 
 lb (77 kg)?pilot (or any other convenient
 reference)?? Yeah, I'm a bit 
 over 'standard' too.
 Jim
 ?
 
 In a message dated 5/17/2014 5:35:13 P.M. Central
 Daylight Time, 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
 
   Hollow glass microspheres in a (typically)
 epoxy matrix. The 
   spheres are so small, they're more like a powder (for
 a deep / dense foam. 
   Shallower foams will incorporate larger spheres). Mix the
 composite with the 
   highest possible volume fraction of glass to resin.
   Sean
 
 
 
   On May 17, 2014
 4:09:46 PM MDT, hank pronk via 
   Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: 
   How is syntactic foam made.  I
 once experimented with 3/4inch plastic water line (pex
 pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now. I heated the end
 of a piece and it melted shut nicely.  So I planned to make
 a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a
 bundle of them inside a pvc pipe.  Then fill the void with
 poly urethane molding resin.  It would be cheap and pretty
 tough.  Perhaps an experiment is in order, unless there is a
 better idea out there.
 Hank
 
 On Fri, 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
  
  There's always the not-so-easy but
  very elegant solution of syntactic
  foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.? Go bigger than
 you
  need to
 
 accommodate future expansion, and compensate in the
 meantime
  with keel
  weight.? Would improve stability, too.
  
  Sean
  
  
  On 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  wrote:
  Alan,
  That would work but I want to keep the sub clean on the
  outside.? Gamma is very slippery the way
 it is.? I
  am confident I can shed the weight.? I have been
  weighing all the bits and it looks doable.? I am also
  looking at a winter project for Gamma.? I would like
 to
  have the arm, and valve and a couple of positioning?
  thrusters on a common chassis, like the DW's.? I
 could
  reduce the weight of the lead drop weight because the
 entire
  assembly would be the drop weight.? That also solves
  the weight problem from the batteries.? I would use
 the
 
 original drop weight screw to drop the new assembly.
  Hank
 
  On Thu, 5/15/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
 
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? Received:
 Thursday, May 15, 2014, 8:17 PM
 ? 
 ? Hank,a
 ? simple solution would be to just have a
 ? number of floats like Alec's Snoopy.He
 ? has them in a tube, but if the floats had
  attachment holes
 ? you
 couldtether
 ? them & clip them on or off.Alan
 ? 
 ? ? ? ? 
 ???From: hank pronk via
 ? Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ???To:
 ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  
 ???Sent: Friday,
 ? May 16, 2014 12:04 PM
 ???Subject:
 ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 ? ???
 ? Gamma or the pilot needs to go to Jenny
  Craig.? My new
 ? AGM batteries
 weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
  60 to 65 lb
 ? weight budget,
 per battery. That means Gamma
  needs to shed
 ? some lbs before
 I can take a passenger.? I
  can switch
 ? to aluminum
 scuba tanks, not sure the weight
  saving
 ? there.? I
 can make an aluminum rudder and a
  few other
 ? parts also.
 ? Hank
 
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? 
 ? ? ? 
 ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ? 
 
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 
 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:11:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 19:11:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
Message-ID: <23245.1e4f620a.40a9468b@aol.com>

Hank,
Greatest net buoyancy on your syntactic foam is achieved by mixing larger  
spheres with smaller spheres so the smaller ones fit in the gaps between the 
 larger ones.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/17/2014 6:04:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Sean,
Very interesting, I just googled glass microspheres and  this is very  
doable.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat,  5/17/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
To: "Personal Submersibles General  Discussion" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, May  17, 2014, 6:34 PM

Hollow
glass microspheres in a (typically) epoxy  matrix. The
spheres are so small, they're more like a powder (for a
deep  / dense foam. Shallower foams will incorporate larger
spheres). Mix the  composite with the highest possible volume
fraction of glass to  resin.
Sean




On May 17, 2014
4:09:46 PM MDT, hank  pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:
How is syntactic foam made.
I once experimented with  3/4inch plastic water line (pex
pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now.  I heated the end
of a piece and it melted shut nicely.  So I planned  to make
a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a
bundle  of them inside a pvc pipe.  Then fill the void with
poly urethane  molding resin.  It would be cheap and pretty
tough.  Perhaps an  experiment is in order, unless there is a
better idea out  there.
Hank

On Fri,
5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via  Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:


Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
To:
"Personal Submersibles General  Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received:
Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM

There's
always the not-so-easy but
very elegant solution  of
syntactic
foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.?   Go
bigger than you
need to

accommodate future expansion,  and compensate in the
meantime
with keel
weight.?   Would improve
stability, too.

Sean


On
2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via  Personal_Submersibles

wrote:
Alan,
That would work  but
I want to keep the sub clean on the

outside.?  Gamma is  very slippery the way it is.?  I
am confident I can shed the  weight.?  I have been

weighing all the bits and it looks  doable.?  I am also
looking at a winter project for  Gamma.?  I would like
to
have the arm, and valve and a  couple of
positioning? 
thrusters on a common chassis,  like
the DW's.?  I could
reduce the weight of the
lead  drop weight because the entire
assembly would be
the drop  weight.?  That also solves
the weight
problem from the  batteries.?  I would use the

original drop weight screw to  drop the new assembly.
Hank

On Thu,
5/15/14, Alan  James via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

?   Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
?  To:
"Personal  Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
?  Received: Thursday, May  15,
2014, 8:17 PM
?  
?  Hank,a
?   simple
solution would be to just have a
?  number of floats
like  Alec's Snoopy.He
?  has them in a tube, but
if the floats  had
attachment ho!
les
?  you  couldtether
? 
them & clip them on or off.Alan
?   
? 
?  ?  ?  
? ? ? From: hank  pronk via
?   Personal_Submersibles
? 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? ? ? To:
? 
personal_submersibles at psubs.org

? ? ? Sent: Friday,
?  May 16, 2014 12:04  PM
? ? ? Subject:
?  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a  diet
? 
? ? ? 
?  Gamma or the pilot needs  to go to
Jenny
Craig.?  My new
? 
AGM batteries  weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
60 to 65 lb
? 
weight  budget, per battery. That means Gamma
needs to  shed
? 
some lbs before I can take a passenger.?  I
can switch
? 
to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the  weight
saving
? 
there.?  I can make an aluminum  rudder and a
few other
? 
parts also.
?   Hank

? 
Personal_Submersibles mailing  list
? 
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?!
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
?   
?  
?  ?  ?  
? 
-----Inline Attachment  Follows-----
?  

?  Personal_Submersibles mailing  list
? 
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
?   


Personal_Submersibles
mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
!



Personal_Submersibles mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:17:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 16:17:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <23245.1e4f620a.40a9468b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1400368632.65913.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Jim,
What kind of numbers are we talking here. How much volume of foam per lb of buoyancy.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/17/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 7:11 PM
 
 
 
  
  
 
 Hank,
 Greatest net buoyancy on your syntactic foam is
 achieved by mixing larger 
 spheres with smaller spheres so the smaller ones fit in the
 gaps between the 
 larger ones.
 Jim
 ?
 
 In a message dated 5/17/2014 6:04:36 P.M. Central
 Daylight Time, 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
 Sean,
 Very interesting, I just googled glass microspheres and 
   this is very 
   doable.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 
   5/17/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: 
   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General 
   Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 
   17, 2014, 6:34 PM
 
 Hollow
 glass microspheres in a (typically) epoxy 
   matrix. The
 spheres are so small, they're more like a powder (for a
 deep 
   / dense foam. Shallower foams will incorporate larger
 spheres). Mix the 
   composite with the highest possible volume
 fraction of glass to 
   resin.
 Sean
 
 
 
 
 On May 17, 2014
 4:09:46 PM MDT, hank 
   pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   wrote:
 How is syntactic foam made.
 ? I once experimented with 
   3/4inch plastic water line (pex
 pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now. 
   I heated the end
 of a piece and it melted shut nicely.? So I planned 
   to make
 a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a
 bundle 
   of them inside a pvc pipe.? Then fill the void with
 poly urethane 
   molding resin.? It would be cheap and pretty
 tough.? Perhaps an 
   experiment is in order, unless there is a
 better idea out 
   there.
 Hank
 
 On Fri,
 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via 
   Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   wrote:
 
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 ? 
   To:
 "Personal Submersibles General 
   Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
   Received:
 Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
 ? 
 ? 
   There's
 always the not-so-easy but
 ? very elegant solution 
   of
 syntactic
 ? foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.?? 
   Go
 bigger than you
 ? need to
 
 accommodate future expansion, 
   and compensate in the
 meantime
 ? with keel
 ? weight.?? 
   Would improve
 stability, too.
 ? 
 ? Sean
 ? 
   
 ? 
 ? On
 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via 
   Personal_Submersibles
 
 wrote:
 ? Alan,
 ? That would work 
   but
 I want to keep the sub clean on the
 
 outside.?? Gamma is 
   very slippery the way it is.?? I
 ? am confident I can shed the 
   weight.?? I have been
 
 weighing all the bits and it looks 
   doable.?? I am also
 ? looking at a winter project for 
   Gamma.?? I would like
 to
 ? have the arm, and valve and a 
   couple of
 positioning??
 ? thrusters on a common chassis, 
   like
 the DW's.?? I could
 ? reduce the weight of the
 lead 
   drop weight because the entire
 ? assembly would be
 the drop 
   weight.?? That also solves
 ? the weight
 problem from the 
   batteries.?? I would use the
 ? 
 original drop weight screw to 
   drop the new assembly.
 ? Hank
 
 ? On Thu,
 5/15/14, Alan 
   James via Personal_Submersibles
 ? 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 
 ?? 
   Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 ?? To:
 "Personal 
   Submersibles General Discussion"
 ? 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ?? Received: Thursday, May 
   15,
 2014, 8:17 PM
 ?? 
 ?? Hank,a
 ?? 
   simple
 solution would be to just have a
 ?? number of floats
 like 
   Alec's Snoopy.He
 ?? has them in a tube, but
 if the floats 
   had
 ? attachment ho!
 ? les
 ?? you 
   couldtether
 ??
 them & clip them on or off.Alan
 ?? 
   
 ??
 ?? ?? ?? 
 ??????From: hank 
   pronk via
 ?? 
   Personal_Submersibles
 ??
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ??????To:
 ??
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
   
 ??????Sent: Friday,
 ?? May 16, 2014 12:04 
   PM
 ??????Subject:
 ?? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a 
   diet
 ??
 ??????
 ?? Gamma or the pilot needs 
   to go to
 Jenny
 ? Craig.?? My new
 ??
 AGM batteries 
   weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
 ? 60 to 65 lb
 ??
 weight 
   budget, per battery. That means Gamma
 ? needs to 
   shed
 ??
 some lbs before I can take a passenger.?? I
 ? 
   can switch
 ??
 to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the 
   weight
 ? saving
 ??
 there.?? I can make an aluminum 
   rudder and a
 ? few other
 ??
 parts also.
 ?? 
   Hank
 
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles mailing 
   list
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?!
 ? ? 
  
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ?? 
   
 ?? 
 ?? ?? ?? 
 ??
 -----Inline Attachment 
   Follows-----
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   list
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?? 
  
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ?? 
   
 
 
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 mailing list
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   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
  
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
   
 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:22:55 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 19:22:55 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015
In-Reply-To: <wymnfjvih2cod9lpbd7eqyra.1400356357134@email.android.com>
References: <wymnfjvih2cod9lpbd7eqyra.1400356357134@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAOGJjnJiP_W3_cM8JOKcQbj9W_+j=P9ZBbCBBJeKi-92HDSCyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Scott, Woods Hole would be awesome if we could work it out. ~ Douglas S.


On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 3:55 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Hey guys,
> I am planning the Psubs conference for 2015. There are 3 current possable
> spots.
> *Woods Hole and submarine Alvin tour.
> *USS Nautilus museum in Conneticut
> *Florida Keys
>
> Any other suggestions are welcome. I will be working on this and keep
> everyone posted.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:26:37 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 19:26:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
Message-ID: <236bb.7055d395.40a94a2d@aol.com>

Hank,
Here's a chart for a starting point: 
http://www.diabgroup.com/~/media/Files/Products/Core-material-pdf/BMTI%20Sel
ection%20Guide%20-%20October%202013.pdf
Cliff used it somewhat in the R-300.  I don't have hands-on  experience.  
This search will give you a bunch of other links:
http://search.aol.com/aol/search?enabled_terms=&s_it=wscreen-smallbusiness-w
&q=density+of+syntactic+foam
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/17/2014 6:17:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Jim,
What kind of numbers are we talking here. How much volume  of foam per lb 
of  buoyancy.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat,  5/17/14, via Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
To:  personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Received: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 7:11  PM






Hank,
Greatest net buoyancy on  your syntactic foam is
achieved by mixing larger 
spheres with smaller  spheres so the smaller ones fit in the
gaps between the 
larger  ones.
Jim


In a message dated 5/17/2014 6:04:36 P.M.  Central
Daylight Time, 
personal_submersibles at psubs.org  writes:
Sean,
Very interesting, I just googled glass microspheres and  
this is very 
doable.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat,  
5/17/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  wrote:

Subject: Re: 
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a  diet
To: "Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion"  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, May  
17, 2014, 6:34 PM

Hollow
glass microspheres in a  (typically) epoxy 
matrix. The
spheres are so small,  they're more like a powder (for a
deep 
/ dense foam.  Shallower foams will incorporate larger
spheres). Mix the 
composite with the highest possible volume
fraction of glass to  
resin.
Sean




On May 17, 2014
4:09:46  PM MDT, hank 
pronk via  Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  
wrote:
How is syntactic foam made.
I once  experimented with 
3/4inch plastic water line (pex
pipe),  the stuff we plumb houses with now. 
I heated the end
of a  piece and it melted shut nicely.  So I planned 
to  make
a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a
bundle  
of them inside a pvc pipe.  Then fill the void  with
poly urethane 
molding resin.  It would be cheap  and pretty
tough.  Perhaps an 
experiment is in order,  unless there is a
better idea out 
there.
Hank

On  Fri,
5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via 
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>  
wrote:


Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a  diet

To:
"Personal Submersibles General  
Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Received:
Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM


There's
always the not-so-easy but
very elegant solution 
of
syntactic
foam filled  hydrodynamic fairings.?  
Go
bigger than you
need to

accommodate future expansion, 
and compensate  in the
meantime
with keel
weight.?   
Would improve
stability, too.

Sean



On
2014-05-15 18:51,  hank pronk via 
Personal_Submersibles

wrote:
Alan,
That would work 
but
I want to keep the sub  clean on the

outside.?  Gamma is 
very slippery  the way it is.?  I
am confident I can shed the 
weight.?  I have been

weighing all the bits and it looks  
doable.?  I am also
looking at a winter  project for 
Gamma.?  I would like
to
have  the arm, and valve and a 
couple  of
positioning? 
thrusters on a common chassis,  
like
the DW's.?  I could
reduce the weight  of the
lead 
drop weight because the entire
assembly would be
the drop 
weight.?  That also  solves
the weight
problem from the 
batteries.?  I would use the

original drop weight screw to  
drop the new assembly.
Hank

On  Thu,
5/15/14, Alan 
James via  Personal_Submersibles

<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

?   
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
?   To:
"Personal 
Submersibles General Discussion"

<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
?  Received:  Thursday, May 
15,
2014, 8:17 PM
?  
?   Hank,a
?  
simple
solution would be to just have  a
?  number of floats
like 
Alec's  Snoopy.He
?  has them in a tube, but
if the floats 
had
attachment ho!
les
?  you 
couldtether
? 
them & clip them on or off.Alan
?   

? 
?  ?  ?   
? ? ? From: hank 
pronk via
?   
Personal_Submersibles
? 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? ? ? To:
? 
personal_submersibles at psubs.org


? ? ? Sent: Friday,
?  May 16,  2014 12:04 
PM
? ? ? Subject:
?   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a 
diet
? 
? ? ? 
?  Gamma or the pilot needs  
to go to
Jenny
Craig.?  My  new
? 
AGM batteries 
weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma  has a
60 to 65 lb
? 
weight 
budget, per  battery. That means Gamma
needs to 
shed
? 
some lbs before I can take a passenger.?  I

can switch
? 
to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure  the 
weight
saving
? 
there.?  I can  make an aluminum 
rudder and a
few  other
? 
parts also.
?  
Hank

? 
Personal_Submersibles mailing 
list
? 
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?!


http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
?   

?  

?  ?  ?   
? 
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Follows-----
?   

?  Personal_Submersibles mailing 
list
? 
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?  

http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
?   



Personal_Submersibles
mailing  list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org


http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



Personal_Submersibles mailing list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org


http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

!



Personal_Submersibles mailing  
list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:31:41 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 17:31:41 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <1400368632.65913.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1400368632.65913.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29703236-9dad-4d8d-a4a0-90b49ff3d180@email.android.com>

You mix the foam to a designed density. Deeper foams must be denser, and hence of greater overall volume than a shallower foam for the same buoyancy.   Determine your operating depth, determine the largest / lightest spheres you can get away with at that pressure, incorporate some smaller ones to fill the interstitial spaces, mix to maximum volume fraction of glass.

Sean


On May 17, 2014 5:17:12 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Jim,
>What kind of numbers are we talking here. How much volume of foam per
>lb of buoyancy.
>Hank
>--------------------------------------------
>On Sat, 5/17/14, via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Received: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 7:11 PM
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> Hank,
> Greatest net buoyancy on your syntactic foam is
> achieved by mixing larger 
> spheres with smaller spheres so the smaller ones fit in the
> gaps between the 
> larger ones.
> Jim
> ?
> 
> In a message dated 5/17/2014 6:04:36 P.M. Central
> Daylight Time, 
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
> Sean,
> Very interesting, I just googled glass microspheres and 
>   this is very 
>   doable.
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 
>   5/17/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: 
>   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
> To: "Personal Submersibles General 
>   Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Saturday, May 
>   17, 2014, 6:34 PM
> 
> Hollow
> glass microspheres in a (typically) epoxy 
>   matrix. The
> spheres are so small, they're more like a powder (for a
> deep 
>   / dense foam. Shallower foams will incorporate larger
> spheres). Mix the 
>   composite with the highest possible volume
> fraction of glass to 
>   resin.
> Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 17, 2014
> 4:09:46 PM MDT, hank 
>   pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>   wrote:
> How is syntactic foam made.
> ? I once experimented with 
>   3/4inch plastic water line (pex
> pipe), the stuff we plumb houses with now. 
>   I heated the end
> of a piece and it melted shut nicely.? So I planned 
>   to make
> a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a
> bundle 
>   of them inside a pvc pipe.? Then fill the void with
> poly urethane 
>   molding resin.? It would be cheap and pretty
> tough.? Perhaps an 
>   experiment is in order, unless there is a
> better idea out 
>   there.
> Hank
> 
> On Fri,
> 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via 
>   Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>   wrote:
> 
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
> ? 
>   To:
> "Personal Submersibles General 
>   Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> ? 
>   Received:
> Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
> ? 
> ? 
>   There's
> always the not-so-easy but
> ? very elegant solution 
>   of
> syntactic
> ? foam filled hydrodynamic fairings.?? 
>   Go
> bigger than you
> ? need to
> 
> accommodate future expansion, 
>   and compensate in the
> meantime
> ? with keel
> ? weight.?? 
>   Would improve
> stability, too.
> ? 
> ? Sean
> ? 
>   
> ? 
> ? On
> 2014-05-15 18:51, hank pronk via 
>   Personal_Submersibles
> 
> wrote:
> ? Alan,
> ? That would work 
>   but
> I want to keep the sub clean on the
> 
> outside.?? Gamma is 
>   very slippery the way it is.?? I
> ? am confident I can shed the 
>   weight.?? I have been
> 
> weighing all the bits and it looks 
>   doable.?? I am also
> ? looking at a winter project for 
>   Gamma.?? I would like
> to
> ? have the arm, and valve and a 
>   couple of
> positioning??
> ? thrusters on a common chassis, 
>   like
> the DW's.?? I could
> ? reduce the weight of the
> lead 
>   drop weight because the entire
> ? assembly would be
> the drop 
>   weight.?? That also solves
> ? the weight
> problem from the 
>   batteries.?? I would use the
> ? 
> original drop weight screw to 
>   drop the new assembly.
> ? Hank
> 
> ? On Thu,
> 5/15/14, Alan 
>   James via Personal_Submersibles
> ? 
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> ? wrote:
> 
> ?? 
>   Subject: Re:
> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
> ?? To:
> "Personal 
>   Submersibles General Discussion"
> ? 
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> ?? Received: Thursday, May 
>   15,
> 2014, 8:17 PM
> ?? 
> ?? Hank,a
> ?? 
>   simple
> solution would be to just have a
> ?? number of floats
> like 
>   Alec's Snoopy.He
> ?? has them in a tube, but
> if the floats 
>   had
> ? attachment ho!
> ? les
> ?? you 
>   couldtether
> ??
> them & clip them on or off.Alan
> ?? 
>   
> ??
> ?? ?? ?? 
> ??????From: hank 
>   pronk via
> ?? 
>   Personal_Submersibles
> ??
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> ??????To:
> ??
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> ? 
>   
> ??????Sent: Friday,
> ?? May 16, 2014 12:04 
>   PM
> ??????Subject:
> ?? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a 
>   diet
> ??
> ??????
> ?? Gamma or the pilot needs 
>   to go to
> Jenny
> ? Craig.?? My new
> ??
> AGM batteries 
>   weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma has a
> ? 60 to 65 lb
> ??
> weight 
>   budget, per battery. That means Gamma
> ? needs to 
>   shed
> ??
> some lbs before I can take a passenger.?? I
> ? 
>   can switch
> ??
> to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure the 
>   weight
> ? saving
> ??
> there.?? I can make an aluminum 
>   rudder and a
> ? few other
> ??
> parts also.
> ?? 
>   Hank
> 
> ??
> Personal_Submersibles mailing 
>   list
> ??
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> ?!
> ? ? 
>  
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> ?? 
>   
> ?? 
> ?? ?? ?? 
> ??
> -----Inline Attachment 
>   Follows-----
> ?? 
> 
> ?? Personal_Submersibles mailing 
>   list
> ??
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> ?? 
>  
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> ?? 
>   
> 
> 
> ? Personal_Submersibles
> mailing list
> ? 
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> ? 
>  
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> ? 
>   
> 
> ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> ? 
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> ? 
>  
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> ? 
>   !
> ? 
> 
> 
> Personal_Submersibles mailing 
>   list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
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>   Attachment 
>   Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles 
>   mailing 
>   list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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>   mailing 
>   list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:33:02 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 17:33:02 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAOGJjnJiP_W3_cM8JOKcQbj9W_+j=P9ZBbCBBJeKi-92HDSCyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <wymnfjvih2cod9lpbd7eqyra.1400356357134@email.android.com>
 <CAOGJjnJiP_W3_cM8JOKcQbj9W_+j=P9ZBbCBBJeKi-92HDSCyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a51b13ea-686c-4d73-aa58-0e71a5db7c6e@email.android.com>

Ditto to this. I'd make the trip to Woods Hole from the left coast.

Sean


On May 17, 2014 5:22:55 PM MDT, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Scott, Woods Hole would be awesome if we could work it out. ~ Douglas
>S.
>
>
>On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 3:55 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
>personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey guys,
>> I am planning the Psubs conference for 2015. There are 3 current
>possable
>> spots.
>> *Woods Hole and submarine Alvin tour.
>> *USS Nautilus museum in Conneticut
>> *Florida Keys
>>
>> Any other suggestions are welcome. I will be working on this and keep
>> everyone posted.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 19:43:58 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 16:43:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <236bb.7055d395.40a94a2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1400370238.13935.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


That is pretty good stuff, 6ish lb buoyancy per imperial gal of volume.  
Is it reasonable to think a regular guy in a regular shop can produce comparable quality and performing material.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/17/14, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 7:26 PM
 
 
 
  
  
 
 Hank,
 Here's a chart for a starting point: 
 http://www.diabgroup.com/~/media/Files/Products/Core-material-pdf/BMTI%20Selection%20Guide%20-%20October%202013.pdf
 Cliff used it somewhat in the R-300.? I don't
 have hands-on 
 experience.? This search will give you a bunch of other
 links:
 http://search.aol.com/aol/search?enabled_terms=&s_it=wscreen-smallbusiness-w&q=density+of+syntactic+foam
 Jim
 ?
 
 In a message dated 5/17/2014 6:17:39 P.M. Central
 Daylight Time, 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
 Jim,
 What kind of numbers are we talking here. How much volume 
   of foam per lb of 
   buoyancy.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 
   5/17/14, via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 To: 
   personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 7:11 
   PM
 
 
 
 ? 
 ? 
 
 Hank,
 Greatest net buoyancy on 
   your syntactic foam is
 achieved by mixing larger 
 spheres with smaller 
   spheres so the smaller ones fit in the
 gaps between the 
 larger 
   ones.
 Jim
 ?
 
 In a message dated 5/17/2014 6:04:36 P.M. 
   Central
 Daylight Time, 
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
   writes:
 Sean,
 Very interesting, I just googled glass microspheres and 
   
 ?? this is very 
 ?? 
   doable.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 
   
 ?? 5/17/14, Sean T. Stevenson via
 Personal_Submersibles 
   
 ?? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: 
 ?? [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a 
   diet
 To: "Personal Submersibles General 
 ?? Discussion" 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 
   
 ?? 17, 2014, 6:34 PM
 
 Hollow
 glass microspheres in a 
   (typically) epoxy 
 ?? matrix. The
 spheres are so small, 
   they're more like a powder (for a
 deep 
 ?? / dense foam. 
   Shallower foams will incorporate larger
 spheres). Mix the 
 ?? 
   composite with the highest possible volume
 fraction of glass to 
   
 ?? resin.
 Sean
 
 
 
 
 On May 17, 2014
 4:09:46 
   PM MDT, hank 
 ?? pronk via 
   Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   
 ?? wrote:
 How is syntactic foam made.
 ? I once 
   experimented with 
 ?? 3/4inch plastic water line (pex
 pipe), 
   the stuff we plumb houses with now. 
 ?? I heated the end
 of a 
   piece and it melted shut nicely.? So I planned 
 ?? to 
   make
 a bunch of pipes with both ends melted shut then slide a
 bundle 
   
 ?? of them inside a pvc pipe.? Then fill the
 void 
   with
 poly urethane 
 ?? molding resin.? It would be cheap 
   and pretty
 tough.? Perhaps an 
 ?? experiment is in order, 
   unless there is a
 better idea out 
 ?? there.
 Hank
 
 On 
   Fri,
 5/16/14, Sean T. Stevenson via 
 ?? 
   Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
   
 ?? wrote:
 
 
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a 
   diet
 ? 
 ?? To:
 "Personal Submersibles General 
   
 ?? 
   Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
   
 ?? Received:
 Friday, May 16, 2014, 7:12 PM
 ? 
   
 ? 
 ?? There's
 always the not-so-easy but
 ? 
   very elegant solution 
 ?? of
 syntactic
 ? foam filled 
   hydrodynamic fairings.?? 
 ?? Go
 bigger than you
 ? 
   need to
 
 accommodate future expansion, 
 ?? and compensate 
   in the
 meantime
 ? with keel
 ? weight.?? 
   
 ?? Would improve
 stability, too.
 ? 
 ? 
   Sean
 ? 
 ?? 
 ? 
 ? On
 2014-05-15 18:51, 
   hank pronk via 
 ?? Personal_Submersibles
 
 wrote:
 ? 
   Alan,
 ? That would work 
 ?? but
 I want to keep the sub 
   clean on the
 
 outside.?? Gamma is 
 ?? very slippery 
   the way it is.?? I
 ? am confident I can shed the 
 ?? 
   weight.?? I have been
 
 weighing all the bits and it looks 
   
 ?? doable.?? I am also
 ? looking at a winter 
   project for 
 ?? Gamma.?? I would like
 to
 ? have 
   the arm, and valve and a 
 ?? couple 
   of
 positioning??
 ? thrusters on a common chassis, 
   
 ?? like
 the DW's.?? I could
 ? reduce the weight 
   of the
 lead 
 ?? drop weight because the entire
 ? 
   assembly would be
 the drop 
 ?? weight.?? That also 
   solves
 ? the weight
 problem from the 
 ?? 
   batteries.?? I would use the
 ? 
 original drop weight screw to 
   
 ?? drop the new assembly.
 ? Hank
 
 ? On 
   Thu,
 5/15/14, Alan 
 ?? James via 
   Personal_Submersibles
 ? 
 ?? 
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 
 ?? 
   
 ?? Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
 ?? 
   To:
 "Personal 
 ?? Submersibles General Discussion"
 ? 
   
 ?? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ?? Received: 
   Thursday, May 
 ?? 15,
 2014, 8:17 PM
 ?? 
 ?? 
   Hank,a
 ?? 
 ?? simple
 solution would be to just have 
   a
 ?? number of floats
 like 
 ?? Alec's 
   Snoopy.He
 ?? has them in a tube, but
 if the floats 
 ?? 
   had
 ? attachment ho!
 ? les
 ?? you 
 ?? 
   couldtether
 ??
 them & clip them on or off.Alan
 ?? 
   
 ?? 
 ??
 ?? ?? ?? 
   
 ??????From: hank 
 ?? pronk via
 ?? 
   
 ?? 
   Personal_Submersibles
 ??
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ??????To:
 ??
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
   
 ?? 
 ??????Sent: Friday,
 ?? May 16, 
   2014 12:04 
 ?? PM
 ??????Subject:
 ?? 
   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a 
 ?? 
   diet
 ??
 ??????
 ?? Gamma or the pilot needs 
   
 ?? to go to
 Jenny
 ? Craig.?? My 
   new
 ??
 AGM batteries 
 ?? weigh 73 lbs each and Gamma 
   has a
 ? 60 to 65 lb
 ??
 weight 
 ?? budget, per 
   battery. That means Gamma
 ? needs to 
 ?? 
   shed
 ??
 some lbs before I can take a passenger.?? I
 ? 
   
 ?? can switch
 ??
 to aluminum scuba tanks, not sure 
   the 
 ?? weight
 ? saving
 ??
 there.?? I can 
   make an aluminum 
 ?? rudder and a
 ? few 
   other
 ??
 parts also.
 ?? 
 ?? 
   Hank
 
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles mailing 
 ?? 
   list
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?!
 ? ? 
   
 ? 
   
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ?? 
   
 ?? 
 ?? 
 
 ?? ?? ?? 
   
 ??
 -----Inline Attachment 
 ?? Follows-----
 ?? 
   
 
 ?? Personal_Submersibles mailing 
 ?? 
   list
 ??
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?? 
 ? 
   
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ?? 
   
 ?? 
 
 
 ? Personal_Submersibles
 mailing 
   list
 ? 
 ?? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
   
 ? 
   
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
   
 ?? 
 
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? 
   
 ?? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
 ? 
   
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
   
 ?? !
 ? 
 
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing 
   
 ?? 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 -----Inline 
   
 ?? Attachment 
 ?? 
   Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   
 ?? mailing 
 ?? 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   
 ?? mailing 
 ?? 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 -----Inline 
   Attachment 
   Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles 
   mailing 
   list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 22:20:06 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 22:20:06 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma needs a diet
In-Reply-To: <1400370238.13935.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1400370238.13935.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <537818D6.9090806@psubs.org>


Cliff has experience fabricating it and gave a presentation on it in 
2009.  As I recall it's fairly simple but because you are working with 
epoxy (or similar exothermo producing binder) you have to work in 
stages, I think no more than 6 inch layers at a time.  So it is also 
time consuming.  As always, the PSUBS website is your friend.  Go to 
PSUBS -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Ballast & Buoyancy 
Control -> Syntactic Foam, What is it and how do you make it

Jon


On 5/17/2014 7:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> That is pretty good stuff, 6ish lb buoyancy per imperial gal of volume.
> Is it reasonable to think a regular guy in a regular shop can produce comparable quality and performing material.
>
>


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 17 23:11:18 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 20:11:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Magnetic cooling
In-Reply-To: <6fca6.76cd94.40a93ff4@aol.com>
References: <6fca6.76cd94.40a93ff4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1400382678.46947.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

That looks promising Jim, especially for anyone wanting to
build to build to classification standard where they require air conditioning.
Alan




________________________________
 From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:43 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Magnetic cooling
 


Joe (et al),
Since interior cooling of your sub is a major concern in your 
climate, here's something to keep your mind occupied for a while.? It will 
be very interesting to see the application of the technology develop.? It 
would also be applicable to lower energy consumption on a support boat based 
unit [three links].
Jim T
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_cooling
?
http://www.geglobalresearch.com/innovation/magnetocaloric-materials-chill-next-generation-refrigerators
?
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/176393-ge-develops-high-tech-fridge-magnets-that-could-save-the-world-billions-of-dollars-in-energy-costs
?
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 18 00:26:44 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 23:26:44 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015
Message-ID: <r5ei64y1ssbfbrk6ekxccy57.1400387130906@email.android.com>

I tried for woods hole for the 2013 psubs conference and it didn't work out. I will do my best to make it work. It would be my number one choice too.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneDouglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott, Woods Hole would be awesome if we could work it out. ~ Douglas S.?


On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 3:55 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hey guys,
I am planning the Psubs conference for 2015. There are 3 current possable spots.
*Woods Hole and submarine Alvin tour.
*USS Nautilus museum in Conneticut
*Florida Keys

Any other suggestions are welcome. I will be working on this and keep everyone posted.

Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 18 08:32:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 05:32:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed
Message-ID: <1400416335.51742.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Testing to see if I am unsubscribed

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 18 08:42:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 08:42:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed
Message-ID: <c136f.7c782a78.40aa04ad@aol.com>

Hank,
I received an email yesterday telling me I had been unsubscribed from the  
Member-forum mailing list.  A little later I received another email saying  
"Welcome to the Member-Forum Mailing list."  Must be some glitch that Jon  
will be addressing if anybody else is getting similar messages.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/18/2014 7:32:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Testing  to see if I am  unsubscribed
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 18 08:51:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 08:51:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed
In-Reply-To: <c136f.7c782a78.40aa04ad@aol.com>
References: <c136f.7c782a78.40aa04ad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8D140AF0964605E-33BC-220BC@webmail-d217.sysops.aol.com>

Ditto Jim.
Vance




-----Original Message-----
From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, May 18, 2014 8:42 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed



Hank,
I received an email yesterday telling me I had been unsubscribed from the Member-forum mailing list.  A little later I received another email saying "Welcome to the Member-Forum Mailing list."  Must be some glitch that Jon will be addressing if anybody else is getting similar messages.
Jim
 

In a message dated 5/18/2014 7:32:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
Testing   to see if I am   unsubscribed
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles   mailing   list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 18 09:24:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 07:24:22 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed
In-Reply-To: <8D140AF0964605E-33BC-220BC@webmail-d217.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c136f.7c782a78.40aa04ad@aol.com>
 <8D140AF0964605E-33BC-220BC@webmail-d217.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <162bc164-e346-4928-a753-59de30901d13@email.android.com>

Same here. Sounds like a list-wide message. Good reminder that I may not be current, though. Jon - I'll take care of that ASAP.

Sean


On May 18, 2014 6:51:36 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Ditto Jim.
>Vance
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Sun, May 18, 2014 8:42 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed
>
>
>
>Hank,
>I received an email yesterday telling me I had been unsubscribed from
>the Member-forum mailing list.  A little later I received another email
>saying "Welcome to the Member-Forum Mailing list."  Must be some glitch
>that Jon will be addressing if anybody else is getting similar
>messages.
>Jim
> 
>
>In a message dated 5/18/2014 7:32:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
>personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
>Testing   to see if I am   unsubscribed
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles   mailing   list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> 
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 18 11:14:26 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Joe Perkel via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 08:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Magnetic cooling
In-Reply-To: <1400382678.46947.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1400426066.57368.YahooMailIosMobile@web141504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Jim,<br/><br/>Very good, I will look this over at first opportunity.<br/><br/>Graduation week approaching, child in overdrive, wife same, dad insane!<br/><br/>Joe<br/><br/><a href="http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 18 12:50:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 12:50:47 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed
In-Reply-To: <162bc164-e346-4928-a753-59de30901d13@email.android.com>
References: <c136f.7c782a78.40aa04ad@aol.com>
 <8D140AF0964605E-33BC-220BC@webmail-d217.sysops.aol.com>
 <162bc164-e346-4928-a753-59de30901d13@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5378E4E7.4080800@psubs.org>

Ignore the message please.  I updated the member-only forum which has to 
be done manually, removing everyone and then resubmitting everyone.  
It's not suppose to send out notices when I do that but obviously did, 
so I'll have to check on the configuration.

Jon


On 5/18/2014 9:24 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> Same here. Sounds like a list-wide message. Good reminder that I may 
> not be current, though. Jon - I'll take care of that ASAP.
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2014 6:51:36 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>     Ditto Jim.
>     Vance
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>     To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>     Sent: Sun, May 18, 2014 8:42 am
>     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] unsubscribed
>
>     Hank,
>     I received an email yesterday telling me I had been unsubscribed
>     from the Member-forum mailing list.  A little later I received
>     another email saying "Welcome to the Member-Forum Mailing list."
>     Must be some glitch that Jon will be addressing if anybody else is
>     getting similar messages.
>     Jim
>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 19 10:38:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 07:38:12 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Message-ID: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 19 12:46:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 12:46:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
Message-ID: <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>

Pinned into some kind of "only one way out" configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question


What are  ?box canyon? current pins ?  I don't want to get stuck in one !

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 -0700



Hi, Scott,
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the absence of a surface  tether. This allows you to go places that you shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ? inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,  you have a strong sense of where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the trending of the currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . .  Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real thing!
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
Phil

 

From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

 

I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
 
 
 
 

Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


_______________________________________________
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 19 13:09:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 11:09:47 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net>

Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, what contingency
plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming disabled?

Sean


On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> Pinned into some kind of "only one way out" configuration by the
> currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.
> Vance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>
> What are  'box canyon' current pins ?  I don't want to get stuck in one !
>
> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
> Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 -0700
>
> Hi, Scott,
> The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV's is
> the absence of a surface  tether. This allows you to go places that
> you shouldn't and wouldn't go with a machine because the risk of
> entanglement -- inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a
> number of other reasons that have to do with the operators senses
> being right on the site rather than a half a mile away. Difficult to
> explain is the 'whole grasp' scenario that ROV operators who try
> manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a wide
> view port or a 360 degree dome,  you have a strong sense of where
> everything is -- how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction
> it's in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the trending of the
> currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid 'box canyon'
> current pins, the ability to hit 'auto altitude' and fly a fixed
> height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and
> therefore the cable's) undulations. When it comes to doing complex
> work using manips, there's no contest man versus machines. Machines do
> get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and
> with many tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is
> five feet away from the work .
> You often hear ROV types say 'well, it's just the same as being
> there". . .  Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the
> real thing!
> I'll get off my soapbox now.
> Phil
>  
> *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>  
> I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and
> cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in
> the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil
> Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a
> curiousity of mine.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>  

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 19 15:03:08 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 15:03:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net>
Message-ID: <8D141AC1B68F94E-4C8-2AA22@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>

One of the true joys (I suspect) of owning a pair of Deepworkers would be the certain knowledge that another pilot could be on his or her own way in about ten minutes from a standing start if necessary. I consider the DWs a sort of Swiss Army Knife as built by Rolex, which means that they are beautifully made, imminently useful, and can be hammered like an old anvil if necessary. The Perry's and Pisces were kind of like that, too, only bigger. And it would be hard to imagine something we couldn't do or manage with one of those.


I've come to the rescue once and had someone return the favor another time. We backed each other up, basically. ROVs of the day were underpowered, frustratingly delicate, and generally unwieldy. We didn't trust them, and for good reason. Better to have what the US Navy calls the Mk I Human Eyeball on site. I still believe that, mind you.


That said, there is/was a thing called subsmash which comes from the gov't, but extended to civilian vehicles. When they dive, you as another operator would know about it and be on a list for alerts in case of emergency. I believe Nuytco did that for HURL at one time. Back in the day, all the major contractors had a handshake agreement about potential problems. No matter who it was, if somebody needed help, everybody came running, no questions asked.


These days? Hm. If I win the lottery, it would be a pair of DWs maybe, or a pair of acrylic boats. Worst case, one or the other of those with a tailored ROV to provide support for emergencies.


Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question


          
    
Vance - when you were piloting subs in      the oilfields, what contingency plans were in place for rescue in      the event of becoming disabled?
      
      Sean
      
      
      On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
    
    
Pinned          into some kind of "only one way out" configuration by the          currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.        
Vance
          
          
          
-----Original Message-----
            From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles            <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
            To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion            <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
            Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
            Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
            
            
              
What are  ?box canyon? current pins ?                 I don't want to get stuck in one !
                
                --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org                wrote:
                
                From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
                To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
                Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
                Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 -0700
                
                
                  
                    
Hi, Scott,
                    
The major reason that quite a few operators                      prefer subs over ROV?s is the absence of a                      surface  tether. This allows you to go places that                      you shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine                      because the risk of entanglement ? inside platform                      legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of                      other reasons that have to do with the operators                      senses being right on the site rather than a half                      a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole                      grasp? scenario that ROV operators who try manned                      subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub                      with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,  you                      have a strong sense of where everything is ? how                      long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction                      it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the                      trending of the currents, where to find lees to                      hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins,                      the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed                      height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the                      bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations.                      When it comes to doing complex work using manips,                      there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines                      do get the work done if they are set up properly,                      but much slower and with many tries, compared to                      the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet                      away from the work .
                    
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just                      the same as being there?. . .  Yeah, right! just                      like telephone sex is the same as the real thing!
                    
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
                    
Phil
                    
                      
                        
 
                        
                          
From: swaters                              via Personal_Submersibles 
                          
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43                            PM
                          
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org                          
                          
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]                            Commercial question
                        
                      
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to                        operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was                        curious what is the advantages of submarines in                        the commercial world such as the oil industry?                        It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be                        sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of                        mine.
                      
Thanks,
                      
Scott Waters
                      
 
                      
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
        
      
    
  

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 12 17:06:03 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 14:06:03 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net>
Message-ID: <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>

A ?box canyon? type current pin is as Vance answered ? the term comes from flying light aircraft into a box canyon ? you can get into a situation where it is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast ?if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It?s a situation where, if you get yourself into it ? yer gonna crash! 
In the case of    submersibles, it?s where you?re proceeding with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front of you, and you have to  make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a desirable situation!
Phil

From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming disabled?

Sean


On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:

  Pinned into some kind of "only one way out" configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one. 
  Vance



  -----Original Message-----
  From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question


  What are  ?box canyon? current pins ?  I don't want to get stuck in one !

  --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

  From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
  Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 -0700


  Hi, Scott,
  The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the absence of a surface  tether. This allows you to go places that you shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ? inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,  you have a strong sense of where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the trending of the currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
  You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . .  Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real thing!
  I?ll get off my soapbox now.
  Phil

  From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

  I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters

   




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 19 17:41:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 17:41:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
Message-ID: <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>

For instance: Tide changes in the Gulf of Suez are abrupt and run to 6-7 knots. Try flying out from under an oil rig with THAT going on!!! Disney has no thrill rides to match it. Anyone having questions about crash bars in front of viewports should try riding 6-tons into an immovable object in spite of everything you could do to avoid it. Got me a couple of fresh gray hairs, that time.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question




A ?box canyon? type current pin is as Vance answered ? the term comes from flying light aircraft into a box canyon ? you can get into a situation where it is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast ?if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It?s a situation where, if you get yourself into it ? yer gonna crash! 
In the case of    submersibles, it?s where you?re proceeding with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front of you, and you have to  make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a desirable situation!
Phil

 

From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

 

Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming disabled?

Sean


On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:

Pinned into some kind of "only one way out"   configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.   
Vance


  
-----Original   Message-----
From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
To:   Personal Submersibles General Discussion mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent:   Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial   question

  
  
What are    ?box canyon? current pins ?  I don't want to get stuck in one   !

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From:   Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To:   "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re:   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18   -0700

  
  
  
Hi, Scott,
  
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the   absence of a surface  tether. This allows you to go places that you   shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ?   inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons   that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than   a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that   ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub   with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,  you have a strong sense of   where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction   it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the trending of the   currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current   pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a   pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s)   undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no   contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up   properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose   hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
  
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. .   .  Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real   thing!
  
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
  
Phil
  
  
  
 
  
  
From: swaters   via Personal_Submersibles 
  
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
  
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

  
 
  
  
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and   cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the   commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been   able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
  
Thanks,
  
Scott Waters
  

 







_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 00:40:21 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 21:40:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Phil / Vance,
as a rule of thumb what would be a reasonable combined hp for horizontal travel
per ton of displacement, for a recreational sub. I make the distinction of recreational,
as it would probably require less than a working sub that can't be as selective of it's operating environment.
Thanks
Alan




________________________________
 From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
 


For instance: Tide changes in the Gulf of Suez are abrupt and run to 6-7 knots. Try flying out from under an oil rig with THAT going on!!! Disney has no thrill rides to match it. Anyone having questions about crash bars in front of viewports should try riding 6-tons into an immovable object in spite of everything you could do to avoid it. Got me a couple of fresh gray hairs, that time. 
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question


A ?box canyon? type current pin is as Vance answered ? the term comes from 
flying light aircraft into a box canyon ? you can get into a situation where it 
is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast 
?if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where 
you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It?s a 
situation where, if you get yourself into it ? yer gonna crash! 
In the case of??? submersibles, it?s where you?re proceeding 
with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong 
current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front 
of you, and you have to? make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the 
tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin 
you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a 
desirable situation!
Phil
?
From: Sean T. Stevenson via 
Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
?
Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, 
what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming 
disabled?

Sean


On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles 
wrote:

Pinned into some kind of "only one way out"  configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one. 
>Vance
>
>
>
>-----Original  Message-----
>From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>To: 
  Personal Submersibles General Discussion mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>Sent: 
  Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial 
  question
>
>
>What are?  ?box canyon? current pins ?? I don't want to get stuck in one  !
>
>--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
>
>From: 
  Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>To: 
  "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Subject: Re: 
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 
  -0700
>
>
>Hi, Scott,
>The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the  absence of a surface? tether. This allows you to go places that you  shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ?  inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons  that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than  a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that  ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub  with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,? you have a strong sense of  where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction  it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,? the trending of the  currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current  pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a  pipeline or cable regardless of the
 bottom (and therefore the cable?s)  undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no  contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up  properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose  hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
>You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. .  .? Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real  thing!
>I?ll get off my soapbox now.
>Phil
>?
>From: swaters  via Personal_Submersibles 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>?
>I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and  cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the  commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been  able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>?

________________________________
 _______________________________________________
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list
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 08:21:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 08:21:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>

Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, May 20, 2014 12:40 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question



Phil / Vance,
as a rule of thumb what would be a reasonable combined hp for horizontal travel
per ton of displacement, for a recreational sub. I make the distinction of recreational,
as it would probably require less than a working sub that can't be as selective of it's operating environment.
Thanks
Alan



  
 
 
 
   From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
  
 


For instance: Tide changes in the Gulf of Suez are abrupt and run to 6-7 knots. Try flying out from under an oil rig with THAT going on!!! Disney has no thrill rides to match it. Anyone having questions about crash bars in front of viewports should try riding 6-tons into an immovable object in spite of everything you could do to avoid it. Got me a couple of fresh gray hairs, that time.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question




A ?box canyon? type current pin is as Vance answered ? the term comes from flying light aircraft into a box canyon ? you can get into a situation where it is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast ?if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It?s a situation where, if you get yourself into it ? yer gonna crash! 
In the case of    submersibles, it?s where you?re proceeding with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front of you, and you have to  make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a desirable situation!
Phil

 

From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

 

Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming disabled?

Sean


On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:

Pinned into some kind of "only one way out"   configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.   
Vance


  
-----Original   Message-----
From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
To:   Personal Submersibles General Discussion mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent:   Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial   question

  
  
What are    ?box canyon? current pins ?  I don't want to get stuck in one   !

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:

From:   Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To:   "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re:   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18   -0700

  
  
  
Hi, Scott,
  
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the   absence of a surface  tether. This allows you to go places that you   shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ?   inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons   that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than   a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that   ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub   with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,  you have a strong sense of   where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction   it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,  the trending of the   currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current   pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a   pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s)   undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no   contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up   properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose   hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
  
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. .   .  Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real   thing!
  
I?ll get off my soapbox now.
  
Phil
  
  
  
 
  
  
From: swaters   via Personal_Submersibles 
  
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
  
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

  
 
  
  
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and   cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the   commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been   able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
  
Thanks,
  
Scott Waters
  

 







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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 16:00:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 14:00:17 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <230774783.37298285.1400616017011.JavaMail.root@mailid.telus.net>

If you are asking specifically about horizontal thruster power, that is a bit of a more difficult question.? Power varies with the cube of speed, so if you can accept a slower design speed, you can get away with much smaller propulsors; however, you need to at minimum be able to counter the horizontal currents you will encounter in service, which will be dependent on your operating area and operating SOPs with regard to current.? Drag comes from two sources: form drag, and skin friction drag, and in both cases is proportional to the square of the vessel speed.? Skin friction will be about the same with horizontal flow (the skin area is the same, but when moving horizontally, the local velocities change), but the form drag changes significantly, generally with increased area presented to flow and decreased streamlining.? Your best best is to either do some CFD, or scale model tests. 
Sean 
? 
----- Original Message -----

From: "via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
To: "personal submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:21:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 

Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it. 
Vance 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Tue, May 20, 2014 12:40 am 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 

Phil / Vance, 
as a rule of thumb what would be a reasonable combined hp for horizontal travel 
per ton of displacement, for a recreational sub. I make the distinction of recreational, 
as it would probably require less than a working sub that can't be as selective of it's operating environment. 
Thanks 
Alan 


From: via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > 
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:41 AM 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 

For instance: Tide changes in the Gulf of Suez are abrupt and run to 6-7 knots. Try flying out from under an oil rig with THAT going on!!! Disney has no thrill rides to match it. Anyone having questions about crash bars in front of viewports should try riding 6-tons into an immovable object in spite of everything you could do to avoid it. Got me a couple of fresh gray hairs, that time. 
Vance 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > 
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:43 pm 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 

A ?box canyon? type current pin is as Vance answered ? the term comes from flying light aircraft into a box canyon ? you can get into a situation where it is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast ?if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It?s a situation where, if you get yourself into it ? yer gonna crash! 
In the case of??? submersibles, it?s where you?re proceeding with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front of you, and you have to? make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a desirable situation! 
Phil 
? 
From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 
? 
Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming disabled? 

Sean 


On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: 


Pinned into some kind of "only one way out" configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one. 
Vance 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 

What are? ?box canyon? current pins ?? I don't want to get stuck in one ! 

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: 

From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > 
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 -0700 

Hi, Scott, 
The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the absence of a surface? tether. This allows you to go places that you shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ? inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,? you have a strong sense of where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,? the trending of the currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a pipeline or cable regardless of the bottom (and therefore the cable?s) undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work . 
You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. . .? Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real thing! 
I?ll get off my soapbox now. 
Phil 
? 
From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM 
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question 
? 
I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine. 
Thanks, 
Scott Waters 

? 





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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 19:57:05 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 16:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1400630225.10864.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Vance & Sean,
that's a good rule of thumb to work around.
Alan




________________________________
 From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
 


Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it. 
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, May 20, 2014 12:40 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question


Phil / Vance,
as a rule of thumb what would be a reasonable combined hp for horizontal travel
per ton of displacement, for a recreational sub. I make the distinction of recreational,
as it would probably require less than a working sub that can't be as selective of it's operating environment.
Thanks
Alan



________________________________
 From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
 


For instance: Tide changes in the Gulf of Suez are abrupt and run to 6-7 knots. Try flying out from under an oil rig with THAT going on!!! Disney has no thrill rides to match it. Anyone having questions about crash bars in front of viewports should try riding 6-tons into an immovable object in spite of everything you could do to avoid it. Got me a couple of fresh gray hairs, that time.  
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question


A ?box canyon? type current pin is as Vance answered ? the term comes from 
flying light aircraft into a box canyon ? you can get into a situation where it 
is too narrow to turn around and the box end of the canyon is approaching fast 
?if you try to gain altitude to get out ,your ground speed diminishes to where 
you will hit the end of the canyon before getting high enough to get out. It?s a 
situation where, if you get yourself into it ? yer gonna crash! 
In the case of??? submersibles, it?s where you?re proceeding 
with a reef of rock or coral higher than your sub beside you and a strong 
current coming from behind, if the reef/bank/cliff takes an abrupt turn in front 
of you, and you have to? make a tight turn to avoid banging into it, the 
tail current can push you broadside against the reef with enough force as to pin 
you there - and your thrusters may not be powerful enough to free you. Not a 
desirable situation!
Phil
?
From: Sean T. Stevenson via 
Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
?
Vance - when you were piloting subs in the oilfields, 
what contingency plans were in place for rescue in the event of becoming 
disabled?

Sean


On 2014-05-19 10:46, via Personal_Submersibles 
wrote:

Pinned into some kind of "only one way out"  configuration by the currents. Kind of nerve wracking, that one.  
>Vance
>
>
>
>-----Original  Message-----
>From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>To: 
  Personal Submersibles General Discussion mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>Sent: 
  Mon, May 19, 2014 10:38 am
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial 
  question
>
>
>What are?  ?box canyon? current pins ?? I don't want to get stuck in one  !
>
>--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
>
>From: 
  Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>To: 
  "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Subject: Re: 
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 22:31:18 
  -0700
>
>
>Hi, Scott,
>The major reason that quite a few operators prefer subs over ROV?s is the  absence of a surface? tether. This allows you to go places that you  shouldn?t and wouldn?t go with a machine because the risk of entanglement ?  inside platform legs, pile jackets, etc., There are a number of other reasons  that have to do with the operators senses being right on the site rather than  a half a mile away. Difficult to explain is the ?whole grasp? scenario that  ROV operators who try manned subs almost always mention. Simply put, in a sub  with a wide view port or a 360 degree dome,? you have a strong sense of  where everything is ? how long ago you passed that pipeline, what direction  it?s in to go back to, the lay of the bottom,? the trending of the  currents, where to find lees to hide in, how to avoid ?box canyon? current  pins, the ability to hit ?auto altitude? and fly a fixed height above a  pipeline or cable regardless of the
 bottom (and therefore the cable?s)  undulations. When it comes to doing complex work using manips, there?s no  contest man versus machines. Machines do get the work done if they are set up  properly, but much slower and with many tries, compared to the pilot whose  hand on the joystick is five feet away from the work .
>You often hear ROV types say ?well, it?s just the same as being there?. .  .? Yeah, right! just like telephone sex is the same as the real  thing!
>I?ll get off my soapbox now.
>Phil
>?
>From: swaters  via Personal_Submersibles 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:43 PM
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>?
>I have always heard that ROV's are cheaper to operate, less risky, and  cheaper to buy. I was curious what is the advantages of submarines in the  commercial world such as the oil industry? It seems like Phil Nuyten has been  able to be sucsessful with submarines. Just a curiousity of mine.
>Thanks,
>Scott Waters
>
>?

________________________________
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list
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http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 20:08:57 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 20:08:57 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <537BEE99.4090601@psubs.org>

That puts K-350 at the heavy power end, a strong 2HP per ton if you 
include the maneuvering motors.
Jon

On 5/20/2014 8:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. 
> PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and 
> one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 
> hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 
> to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it.
> Vance

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 20:28:21 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 20:28:21 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <537BEE99.4090601@psubs.org>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
 <537BEE99.4090601@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <5499FE98-BF1C-49DB-B156-F525D074EB2D@AOL.com>

Which may explain why that big anvil in back kicks such serious ass, even with Captain George's dinky prop.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 20, 2014, at 8:08 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> That puts K-350 at the heavy power end, a strong 2HP per ton if you include the maneuvering motors.
> Jon
> 
>> On 5/20/2014 8:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>> Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces           boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it.
>> Vance
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 21:00:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 18:00:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub launch boat
Message-ID: <1400634012.11518.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I have decided to build a boat to carry and launch Gamma.  I am on my second year of not launching my side wheel paddle boat.  I am taking the paddle boat apart and will repurpose the steel hull.  I am building a boat that looks like a landing craft but it will be open in the front so Gamma can float inside.  Once inside, I can lift it until the bottom of Gamma is slightly higher than the bottom of the boat.   The boat will have modest living accommodations.  Most of my sub missions involve winter weather, so I need a very safe and warm boat.   
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 13 21:33:37 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 18:33:37 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <5499FE98-BF1C-49DB-B156-F525D074EB2D@AOL.com>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
 <537BEE99.4090601@psubs.org> <5499FE98-BF1C-49DB-B156-F525D074EB2D@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <464F0BA634124B8DBD495758B7BCFE3C@PhillPC>

Re: HP per ton ? We are now running the big ?Newt-screws? (unofficial name) on both the dual and single DeepWorkers. The single two thousand footer comes in at just over two tons and has 20 HP (4 X 5HP combined vertical and horizontal) These units can be dialled back to any rating up to a max of 5 HP  -if you want to conserve batteries and don?t need the extra oomph ? we?ve also switched to LiOH battery packs. 3 times the duration at half the weight ? what?s not to like?? 
Phil

From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:28 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question

Which may explain why that big anvil in back kicks such serious ass, even with Captain George's dinky prop.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2014, at 8:08 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


  That puts K-350 at the heavy power end, a strong 2HP per ton if you include the maneuvering motors.
  Jon

  On 5/20/2014 8:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:

    Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it. 
    Vance



  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 20 23:19:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 21:19:22 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <464F0BA634124B8DBD495758B7BCFE3C@PhillPC>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
 <537BEE99.4090601@psubs.org> <5499FE98-BF1C-49DB-B156-F525D074EB2D@AOL.com>
 <464F0BA634124B8DBD495758B7BCFE3C@PhillPC>
Message-ID: <537C1B3A.4090304@telus.net>

Phil - I'm curious as to what your take is on LiFePO4 batteries. Did you
investigate these before you made the switch?

Sean


On 2014-05-13 19:33, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> Re: HP per ton -- We are now running the big 'Newt-screws' (unofficial
> name) on both the dual and single DeepWorkers. The single two thousand
> footer comes in at just over two tons and has 20 HP (4 X 5HP combined
> vertical and horizontal) These units can be dialled back to any rating
> up to a max of 5 HP  -if you want to conserve batteries and don't need
> the extra oomph -- we've also switched to LiOH battery packs. 3 times
> the duration at half the weight -- what's not to like??
> Phil
>  
> *From:* Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:28 PM
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>  
> Which may explain why that big anvil in back kicks such serious ass,
> even with Captain George's dinky prop.
> Vance
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 20, 2014, at 8:08 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>
>> That puts K-350 at the heavy power end, a strong 2HP per ton if you
>> include the maneuvering motors.
>> Jon
>>
>> On 5/20/2014 8:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>>> Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2
>>> tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two
>>> horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats
>>> used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to
>>> look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it.
>>> Vance
>>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 06:21:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 03:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <464F0BA634124B8DBD495758B7BCFE3C@PhillPC>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
 <537BEE99.4090601@psubs.org> <5499FE98-BF1C-49DB-B156-F525D074EB2D@AOL.com>
 <464F0BA634124B8DBD495758B7BCFE3C@PhillPC>
Message-ID: <1400667673.43945.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Phil,
you've blown the 1 hp per ton bench mark out of the water.
I'm looking at Lithium for my upcoming sub & was Googling what they are using in the electric car market.
The Nissan Leaf has passed the 100,000 sales mark World wide. They must have a pretty reliable battery & bms.
http://www.nissan.co.nz/zero-emission-electric/leaf/?gclid=CjgKEAjwnfGbBRDlxoHrl6uikyESJAD-nzCFABiHrB9yij8WKP7HR9RfEh8UNyYdaOWHnHco4YkdW_D_BwE

Surely the price will be coming down. It costs 19,392 British pounds to replace it's 24kw battery pack.
Incidentally the batteries are made in Tennesse.
http://blip.tv/motomantv/nissan-leaf-us-battery-factory-6598011

Alan


________________________________
 From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
 


Re: HP per ton ? We are now running the big ?Newt-screws? (unofficial name) 
on both the dual and single DeepWorkers. The single two thousand footer comes in 
at just over two tons and has 20 HP (4 X 5HP combined vertical and horizontal) 
These units can be dialled back to any rating up to a max of 5 HP? -if you 
want to conserve batteries and don?t need the extra oomph ? we?ve also switched 
to LiOH battery packs. 3 times the duration at half the weight ? what?s not to 
like?? 
Phil
?
From: Vance Bradley via 
Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:28 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General 
Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
?
Which may explain why that big anvil in back kicks such serious ass, even 
with Captain George's dinky prop.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2014, at 8:08 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
wrote:


That puts K-350 at the heavy power end, a strong  2HP per ton if you include the maneuvering motors.
>Jon
>
>On 5/20/2014 
  8:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
>Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has  2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus  two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used  a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like  about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it. 
>>Vance
>>
>
_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
________________________________
 _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing 
list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 13:17:30 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 13:17:30 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
In-Reply-To: <464F0BA634124B8DBD495758B7BCFE3C@PhillPC>
References: <20140519073812.55DB3C1F@m0005296.ppops.net>
 <8D141990668167B-70C-29B03@webmail-d285.sysops.aol.com>
 <537A3ADB.5060400@telus.net> <D01AC86B700E46B9BC67550A95DC5FE7@PhillPC>
 <8D141C23A4FC6BC-4C8-2BC80@webmail-d252.sysops.aol.com>
 <1400560821.87081.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <8D1423D2CBABFA1-103C-2E753@webmail-d255.sysops.aol.com>
 <537BEE99.4090601@psubs.org> <5499FE98-BF1C-49DB-B156-F525D074EB2D@AOL.com>
 <464F0BA634124B8DBD495758B7BCFE3C@PhillPC>
Message-ID: <EB13DD88-4030-453C-B9B4-29327ED8F245@AOL.com>

Yikes! What's the bollard pull with four of those beasties?
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 13, 2014, at 9:33 PM, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Re: HP per ton ? We are now running the big ?Newt-screws? (unofficial name) on both the dual and single DeepWorkers. The single two thousand footer comes in at just over two tons and has 20 HP (4 X 5HP combined vertical and horizontal) These units can be dialled back to any rating up to a max of 5 HP  -if you want to conserve batteries and don?t need the extra oomph ? we?ve also switched to LiOH battery packs. 3 times the duration at half the weight ? what?s not to like??
> Phil
>  
> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:28 PM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial question
>  
> Which may explain why that big anvil in back kicks such serious ass, even with Captain George's dinky prop.
> Vance
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 20, 2014, at 8:08 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> That puts K-350 at the heavy power end, a strong 2HP per ton if you include the maneuvering motors.
>> Jon
>> 
>>> On 5/20/2014 8:21 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>>> Better a question for Phil, I think. Gamma has 2 hp and weighs 2 tons. PC-12 had a combined 13 hp for 8 tons (10 main plus two horizontal and one vertical maneuvering thruster). The Pisces boats used a pair of 5 hp thrusters for 12-12 tons. So it is beginning to look like about 1 to 1.5 per ton, now that I think about it.
>>> Vance
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 13:47:09 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 19:47:09 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub launch boat
In-Reply-To: <1400634012.11518.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAA3uBUZuF7YEql8DrqLthOqAEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Nice! I like the idea.
Keep us up to date.

Regards, Emile

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: woensdag 21 mei 2014 3:00
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub launch boat

I have decided to build a boat to carry and launch Gamma.  I am on my second
year of not launching my side wheel paddle boat.  I am taking the paddle
boat apart and will repurpose the steel hull.  I am building a boat that
looks like a landing craft but it will be open in the front so Gamma can
float inside.  Once inside, I can lift it until the bottom of Gamma is
slightly higher than the bottom of the boat.   The boat will have modest
living accommodations.  Most of my sub missions involve winter weather, so I
need a very safe and warm boat.   
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 16:13:59 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 13:13:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub launch boat
In-Reply-To: <1400634012.11518.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1400634012.11518.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1400703239.67513.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
this would be a good project for psubbers with CAD ability, to come up with a consept design.
I like the idea of driving it in to the boat & winching it up like a fishing trawler does with their nets.
Attached is a series of pics of Graham Hawkes purpose built catamaran. The launch / retreival
seems labour intensive.
Great White Shark Expedition: October, 2011 - DeepFlight ? Advanced Personal Submarines and Undersea Technology

Alan
 
   Great White Shark Expedition: October, 2011 - DeepFlight...
Guadalupe Island, Mexico In October, 2011, Hawkes Ocean Technologies in a joint expedition with Virgin Oceanic, brought the Super Falcon ...  
View on www.deepflight.com Preview by Yahoo  



________________________________
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 1:00 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub launch boat
 

I have decided to build a boat to carry and launch Gamma.? I am on my second year of not launching my side wheel paddle boat.? I am taking the paddle boat apart and will repurpose the steel hull.? I am building a boat that looks like a landing craft but it will be open in the front so Gamma can float inside.? Once inside, I can lift it until the bottom of Gamma is slightly higher than the bottom of the boat.?  The boat will have modest living accommodations.? Most of my sub missions involve winter weather, so I need a very safe and warm boat.? 
Hank
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 16:47:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 13:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch boat
Message-ID: <1400705233.69499.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
I need to build so the sub floats inside because to keep the boat road legal it must stay at 8' 6'' max width.  I have a 36 foot trailer for the boat already and it can carry the sub and the boat no sweat.  I am starting the boat project right after I build a new fence for my doggy.  :-)  

Emile,
I will post progress pictures and any ideas out there will be appreciated.
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 20:13:11 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 19:13:11 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Summersville Lake dive report (Trustworthy)
Message-ID: <16r7x8wy0a52m3mohntbic8t.1400717085335@email.android.com>

We just got back from Summersville Lake, WV. After a 15 hour drive we took Trustworthy out along with snoopy. The water ended up being very low visability but we still got in some good diving. We did the depth test with Trustworthy and the results were inconclusive. I forgot to attach a depth gauge or a camera focused on the depth gauge so we don't know how deep it went. My best guess is it went somewhere between 150 feet and 230 feet. We had about a cup of water that leaked from the VBT rotating thru hull which triggered the water sensor and sent Trustworthy to the top a little early. This is due to a ripped O ring that needs replaced by a better quality one and will be a easy fix. We will be looking to find a lake with 450' depth to do a full test still this summer. The real value to this trip was learning about some new improvements that can be done. I will be putting my new sub idea on the back burner and focus on stripping down Trustworthy this winter and making some really cool modifications. I will post my modification list soon along with reasons for the change.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 21:48:26 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 21:48:26 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report
Message-ID: <CABECYQ62-mUdQMHs92iwfs+acMwLL_6kyuBxSHNZErUfWSR8KQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I see Scott just emailed a dive report, so here's the Snoopy half of it.

Summersville Lake was looking fantastic and the weather ideal. I'll attach
a low-res photo in the hope it comes in under whatever our file attachment
limitation might be. The problem, however, was that this beautiful weather
had been preceded by a deluge that raised the water level by fifteen feet
in less than a week, ruining the visibility in the process. In consequence,
our trip was good for sub testing but not for UW sightseeing and video.

The first dive of day one was also Snoopy's first dive of the year, and I
suspect the particularly harsh winter in an unheated garage took its toll.
I had made a number of small improvements since the weather warmed up, but
we had two issues on the first day. First, the depth gauge simply didn't
work. Its an analog gauge that has been in Snoopy since she was built. I
thought there might be a blockage in the line or a problem with the shutoff
valve, but eventually discovered it was just the gauge mechanism itself
that was "frozen". After taking out the glass and moving the needle by hand
the gauge worked, but it will get replaced just in case. The second issue
was more serious. When I tried to flood the saddle tanks, the stem of the
corresponding ball valve simply sheared off. I didn't even force it, the
break happened with very little torque applied. Those who examined the
parts later thought it looked like a manufacturing defect. The stem was
brass, so corrosion was not a factor. I was still able to dive, thanks to
having two independent MBT systems, but that is something I'd consider a
significant failure, particularly if it happened in a boat without
redundant main ballast systems. As it turned out, we were able to get a new
ball valve at the local hardware store, and although the valve body was
different to Snoopy's the stems were interchangeable.

On day two we depth tested Trustworthy. I'll let Scott provide the details
of the test, but Snoopy attempted to be the "chase sub" and follow
Trustworthy down with Scott as crew. That plan was an utter failure. You
would think that even in two foot visibility one could stay with something
as big as a sub, or follow the rope down, but in practice it was simply
impossible to keep ether in sight -- another lesson learned. In the process
we discovered that, while on the surface the visibility was about two feet,
forty five feet down it suddenly changed to zero visibility. Diving through
the thermocline was like having someone turn the lights off in a room, it
was a sudden and clear cut transition.

After the depth test I gave a "ride dive" to our support diver, and for fun
we just kept going down through the layer of dark water. To our surprise it
cleared up again at 125 feet and stayed that way until our max depth of
220. We turned around at that point because the depth sounder indicated we
would not find bottom within our 250 foot limit, having another 48 feet to
go. The bottom was tantalizingly close to our limit, but we were not going
to see it from an altitude of 18 feet. As it was, however, 220 feet was
Snoopy's deepest dive to date and therefore of interest performance-wise.
The OTS comms continued to be clear, if with a little reverb effect that
made the other person sound very distant. The oil compensation in the
motors and lights all worked well. The only issue experienced at that depth
was a drip from the through-hull that brings the OTS transducer cable into
the hull. This through-hull consists of a stainless insert about an inch
and a half long that is drilled from the outside with a step drill, to form
a conical stepped hole into which I potted the little 1/8" cable. I think
there must be an insufficient bond to the cable jacket, since the other end
of the cable is potted into the transducer.

Speaking of the communications, one thing that bothers me about using a
headset inside the sub is that it makes it hard to converse with the crew,
yet if the headset is removed it is easy to miss a call from the surface.
One of this year's innovations consists of a little amplified speaker that
is connected to the headset's line out. This worked well. When the surface
called, I could hear them and put on the headset only when needed.

Now we had discovered that the layer of dark water had a bottom, we
attempted one last dive. With Scott as crew, the idea was to follow one of
Summerville's vertical walls down and try to keep the bottom in sight once
we broke out of the murk at 125 feet. Our buoyancy was minimally negative,
perhaps just a couple of pounds. Things went reasonably well at first, but
once into the dark layer the navigation predictably became a challenge. The
wall turned to a steep slope, which often arrested our descent. We slowly
bounced and dragged our way down the slope. That might sound like a
workable if somewhat inelegant method of progress, but Summersville's
sloping bottom is not conveniently even, and in fact is strewn with gullies
and huge boulders. It gets rather tricky trying to navigate in three
dimensions with no visibility at all and no instrument beyond a depth
gauge. When SCUBA diving in a blackout environment a diver would use his
sense of tact, but in a submersible you find yourself trying to navigate
via landings and small crashes instead. If the depth gauge stops and the
bow is pointing a little higher than the stern, you've probably hung up by
the bow and so you go full astern to get free. That's the most straight
forward scenario, but most of the time you just get jolted from some vague
direction that is hard to discern since pressure hulls have fewer nerve
endings than a diver's fingertips. In poor visibility, you can normally see
particles suspended in the water washing past the viewports, and get a
sense of movement from them. But in this case we could not even make out
particle movement. Other than the vertical movements reflected in the depth
gauge readings, we could only detect movement by what I will call the
built-in human accelerometers. The problem is, although you can sense
movement it is very hard to quantify. For instance, we might both agree it
felt like we were rotating to port, yet we would have no idea how many
degrees we had turned.

When the depth gauge stopped moving and horizontal thrusters wouldn't drag
us down the slope, we tried levitating off the bottom with side thrusters
and then moving horizontally with the stern thruster, hopefully to land a
little further down the slope. That worked a few times, but eventually we
found ourselves stuck, without the application of thrusters producing
appreciable movement in any direction whatsoever, including upward. That's
when you start wondering about getting wedged between boulders or under an
overhang, but the reality was less alarming. During Trustworthy's depth
test I'd spent an hour running around on the surface with very heavy
thruster use in order to keep up with a pontoon boat that was constantly
being blown across the lake by the wind, and then motoring back to our
intended test site. That and the power consumed during an afternoon of
diving had taken its toll, the batteries were fading and therefore the
thrusters were pushing far less than normal. We squirted a little air into
the saddle tanks and surfaced - time to go home.


Best,

Alec
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 21 21:50:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 01:50:07 +0000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
Message-ID: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all,

I see Scott just emailed a dive report, so here's the Snoopy half of it.

Summersville Lake was looking fantastic and the weather ideal. I'll attach a low-res photo in the hope it comes in under whatever our file attachment limitation might be. The problem, however, was that this beautiful weather had been preceded by a deluge that raised the water level by fifteen feet in less than a week, ruining the visibility in the process. In consequence, our trip was good for sub testing but not for UW sightseeing and video.

The first dive of day one was also Snoopy's first dive of the year, and I suspect the particularly harsh winter in an unheated garage took its toll. I had made a number of small improvements since the weather warmed up, but we had two issues on the first day. First, the depth gauge simply didn't work. Its an analog gauge that has been in Snoopy since she was built. I thought there might be a blockage in the line or a problem with the shutoff valve, but eventually discovered it was just the gauge mechanism itself that was "frozen". After taking out the glass and moving the needle by hand the gauge worked, but it will get replaced just in case. The second issue was more serious. When I tried to flood the saddle tanks, the stem of the corresponding ball valve simply sheared off. I didn't even force it, the break happened with very little torque applied. Those who examined the parts later thought it looked like a manufacturing defect. The stem was brass, so corrosion was not a factor. I was still able to dive, thanks to having two independent MBT systems, but that is something I'd consider a significant failure, particularly if it happened in a boat without redundant main ballast systems. As it turned out, we were able to get a new ball valve at the local hardware store, and although the valve body was different to Snoopy's the stems were interchangeable.

On day two we depth tested Trustworthy. I'll let Scott provide the details of the test, but Snoopy attempted to be the "chase sub" and follow Trustworthy down with Scott as crew. That plan was an utter failure. You would think that even in two foot visibility one could stay with something as big as a sub, or follow the rope down, but in practice it was simply impossible to keep ether in sight -- another lesson learned. In the process we discovered that, while on the surface the visibility was about two feet, forty five feet down it suddenly changed to zero visibility. Diving through the thermocline was like having someone turn the lights off in a room, it was a sudden and clear cut transition.

After the depth test I gave a "ride dive" to our support diver, and for fun we just kept going down through the layer of dark water. To our surprise it cleared up again at 125 feet and stayed that way until our max depth of 220. We turned around at that point because the depth sounder indicated we would not find bottom within our 250 foot limit, having another 48 feet to go. The bottom was tantalizingly close to our limit, but we were not going to see it from an altitude of 18 feet. As it was, however, 220 feet was Snoopy's deepest dive to date and therefore of interest performance-wise. The OTS comms continued to be clear, if with a little reverb effect that made the other person sound very distant. The oil compensation in the motors and lights all worked well. The only issue experienced at that depth was a drip from the through-hull that brings the OTS transducer cable into the hull. This through-hull consists of a stainless insert about an inch and a half long that is drilled from the outside with a step drill, to form a conical stepped hole into which I potted the little 1/8" cable. I think there must be an insufficient bond to the cable jacket, since the other end of the cable is potted into the transducer.

Speaking of the communications, one thing that bothers me about using a headset inside the sub is that it makes it hard to converse with the crew, yet if the headset is removed it is easy to miss a call from the surface. One of this year's innovations consists of a little amplified speaker that is connected to the headset's line out. This worked well. When the surface called, I could hear them and put on the headset only when needed.

Now we had discovered that the layer of dark water had a bottom, we attempted one last dive. With Scott as crew, the idea was to follow one of Summerville's vertical walls down and try to keep the bottom in sight once we broke out of the murk at 125 feet. Our buoyancy was minimally negative, perhaps just a couple of pounds. Things went reasonably well at first, but once into the dark layer the navigation predictably became a challenge. The wall turned to a steep slope, which often arrested our descent. We slowly bounced and dragged our way down the slope. That might sound like a workable if somewhat inelegant method of progress, but Summersville's sloping bottom is not conveniently even, and in fact is strewn with gullies and huge boulders. It gets rather tricky trying to navigate in three dimensions with no visibility at all and no instrument beyond a depth gauge. When SCUBA diving in a blackout environment a diver would use his sense of tact, but in a submersible you find yourself trying to navigate via landings and small crashes instead. If the depth gauge stops and the bow is pointing a little higher than the stern, you've probably hung up by the bow and so you go full astern to get free. That's the most straight forward scenario, but most of the time you just get jolted from some vague direction that is hard to discern since pressure hulls have fewer nerve endings than a diver's fingertips. In poor visibility, you can normally see particles suspended in the water washing past the viewports, and get a sense of movement from them. But in this case we could not even make out particle movement. Other than the vertical movements reflected in the depth gauge readings, we could only detect movement by what I will call the built-in human accelerometers. The problem is, although you can sense movement it is very hard to quantify. For instance, we might both agree it felt like we were rotating to port, yet we would have no idea how many degrees we had turned.

When the depth gauge stopped moving and horizontal thrusters wouldn't drag us down the slope, we tried levitating off the bottom with side thrusters and then moving horizontally with the stern thruster, hopefully to land a little further down the slope. That worked a few times, but eventually we found ourselves stuck, without the application of thrusters producing appreciable movement in any direction whatsoever, including upward. That's when you start wondering about getting wedged between boulders or under an overhang, but the reality was less alarming. During Trustworthy's depth test I'd spent an hour running around on the surface with very heavy thruster use in order to keep up with a pontoon boat that was constantly being blown across the lake by the wind, and then motoring back to our intended test site. That and the power consumed during an afternoon of diving had taken its toll, the batteries were fading and therefore the thrusters were pushing far less than normal. We squirted a little air into the saddle tanks and surfaced - time to go home.


Best,

Alec

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 06:37:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 06:37:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
In-Reply-To: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8D143C0EDA1B1C6-2014-6B83@webmail-vm046.sysops.aol.com>

Thanks, Alec. I appreciate the report. What a beautiful area!
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: PSUBS mailing list (personal_submersibles at psubs.org) <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:50 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report



Hi all,
 
I see Scott just emailed a dive report, so here's the Snoopy half of it.
 
Summersville Lake was looking fantastic and the weather ideal. I'll attach a low-res photo in the hope it comes in under whatever our file attachment limitation might be. The problem, however, was that this beautiful weather had been preceded by a deluge that raised the water level by fifteen feet in less than a week, ruining the visibility in the process. In consequence, our trip was good for sub testing but not for UW sightseeing and video.
 
The first dive of day one was also Snoopy's first dive of the year, and I suspect the particularly harsh winter in an unheated garage took its toll. I had made a number of small improvements since the weather warmed up, but we had two issues on the first day. First, the depth gauge simply didn't work. Its an analog gauge that has been in Snoopy since she was built. I thought there might be a blockage in the line or a problem with the shutoff valve, but eventually discovered it was just the gauge mechanism itself that was "frozen". After taking out the glass and moving the needle by hand the gauge worked, but it will get replaced just in case. The second issue was more serious. When I tried to flood the saddle tanks, the stem of the corresponding ball valve simply sheared off. I didn't even force it, the break happened with very little torque applied. Those who examined the parts later thought it looked like a manufacturing defect. The stem was brass, so corrosion was not a factor. I was still able to dive, thanks to having two independent MBT systems, but that is something I'd consider a significant failure, particularly if it happened in a boat without redundant main ballast systems. As it turned out, we were able to get a new ball valve at the local hardware store, and although the valve body was different to Snoopy's the stems were interchangeable.
 
On day two we depth tested Trustworthy. I'll let Scott provide the details of the test, but Snoopy attempted to be the "chase sub" and follow Trustworthy down with Scott as crew. That plan was an utter failure. You would think that even in two foot visibility one could stay with something as big as a sub, or follow the rope down, but in practice it was simply impossible to keep ether in sight -- another lesson learned. In the process we discovered that, while on the surface the visibility was about two feet, forty five feet down it suddenly changed to zero visibility. Diving through the thermocline was like having someone turn the lights off in a room, it was a sudden and clear cut transition. 
 
After the depth test I gave a "ride dive" to our support diver, and for fun we just kept going down through the layer of dark water. To our surprise it cleared up again at 125 feet and stayed that way until our max depth of 220. We turned around at that point because the depth sounder indicated we would not find bottom within our 250 foot limit, having another 48 feet to go. The bottom was tantalizingly close to our limit, but we were not going to see it from an altitude of 18 feet. As it was, however, 220 feet was Snoopy's deepest dive to date and therefore of interest performance-wise. The OTS comms continued to be clear, if with a little reverb effect that made the other person sound very distant. The oil compensation in the motors and lights all worked well. The only issue experienced at that depth was a drip from the through-hull that brings the OTS transducer cable into the hull. This through-hull consists of a stainless insert about an inch and a half long that is drilled from the outside with a step drill, to form a conical stepped hole into which I potted the little 1/8" cable. I think there must be an insufficient bond to the cable jacket, since the other end of the cable is potted into the transducer. 
 
Speaking of the communications, one thing that bothers me about using a headset inside the sub is that it makes it hard to converse with the crew, yet if the headset is removed it is easy to miss a call from the surface. One of this year's innovations consists of a little amplified speaker that is connected to the headset's line out. This worked well. When the surface called, I could hear them and put on the headset only when needed. 
 
Now we had discovered that the layer of dark water had a bottom, we attempted one last dive. With Scott as crew, the idea was to follow one of Summerville's vertical walls down and try to keep the bottom in sight once we broke out of the murk at 125 feet. Our buoyancy was minimally negative, perhaps just a couple of pounds. Things went reasonably well at first, but once into the dark layer the navigation predictably became a challenge. The wall turned to a steep slope, which often arrested our descent. We slowly bounced and dragged our way down the slope. That might sound like a workable if somewhat inelegant method of progress, but Summersville's sloping bottom is not conveniently even, and in fact is strewn with gullies and huge boulders. It gets rather tricky trying to navigate in three dimensions with no visibility at all and no instrument beyond a depth gauge. When SCUBA diving in a blackout environment a diver would use his sense of tact, but in a submersible you find yourself trying to navigate via landings and small crashes instead. If the depth gauge stops and the bow is pointing a little higher than the stern, you've probably hung up by the bow and so you go full astern to get free. That's the most straight forward scenario, but most of the time you just get jolted from some vague direction that is hard to discern since pressure hulls have fewer nerve endings than a diver's fingertips. In poor visibility, you can normally see particles suspended in the water washing past the viewports, and get a sense of movement from them. But in this case we could not even make out particle movement. Other than the vertical movements reflected in the depth gauge readings, we could only detect movement by what I will call the built-in human accelerometers. The problem is, although you can sense movement it is very hard to quantify. For instance, we might both agree it felt like we were rotating to port, yet we would have no idea how many degrees we had turned. 
 
When the depth gauge stopped moving and horizontal thrusters wouldn't drag us down the slope, we tried levitating off the bottom with side thrusters and then moving horizontally with the stern thruster, hopefully to land a little further down the slope. That worked a few times, but eventually we found ourselves stuck, without the application of thrusters producing appreciable movement in any direction whatsoever, including upward. That's when you start wondering about getting wedged between boulders or under an overhang, but the reality was less alarming. During Trustworthy's depth test I'd spent an hour running around on the surface with very heavy thruster use in order to keep up with a pontoon boat that was constantly being blown across the lake by the wind, and then motoring back to our intended test site. That and the power consumed during an afternoon of diving had taken its toll, the batteries were fading and therefore the thrusters were pushing far less than normal. We squirted a little air into the saddle tanks and surfaced - time to go home.  
 
 
Best,

Alec
 
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it

_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 07:00:34 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 23:00:34 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ62-mUdQMHs92iwfs+acMwLL_6kyuBxSHNZErUfWSR8KQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABECYQ62-mUdQMHs92iwfs+acMwLL_6kyuBxSHNZErUfWSR8KQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F977016-2BDF-4502-95D7-6127519B0218@yahoo.com>

Thanks for the report Alec & Scott,
I appreciate all the details. 
Alec, could sea water get in to your depth gauge? Do you have oil in the gauge line?
I know what you mean about those lake thermoclines. I dived in to one & literally couldn't see
my hand in front of my face. 
Alan


Sent from my iPad

> On 22/05/2014, at 1:48 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I see Scott just emailed a dive report, so here's the Snoopy half of it.
> 
> Summersville Lake was looking fantastic and the weather ideal. I'll attach a low-res photo in the hope it comes in under whatever our file attachment limitation might be. The problem, however, was that this beautiful weather had been preceded by a deluge that raised the water level by fifteen feet in less than a week, ruining the visibility in the process. In consequence, our trip was good for sub testing but not for UW sightseeing and video.
> 
> The first dive of day one was also Snoopy's first dive of the year, and I suspect the particularly harsh winter in an unheated garage took its toll. I had made a number of small improvements since the weather warmed up, but we had two issues on the first day. First, the depth gauge simply didn't work. Its an analog gauge that has been in Snoopy since she was built. I thought there might be a blockage in the line or a problem with the shutoff valve, but eventually discovered it was just the gauge mechanism itself that was "frozen". After taking out the glass and moving the needle by hand the gauge worked, but it will get replaced just in case. The second issue was more serious. When I tried to flood the saddle tanks, the stem of the corresponding ball valve simply sheared off. I didn't even force it, the break happened with very little torque applied. Those who examined the parts later thought it looked like a manufacturing defect. The stem was brass, so corrosion was not a factor. I was still able to dive, thanks to having two independent MBT systems, but that is something I'd consider a significant failure, particularly if it happened in a boat without redundant main ballast systems. As it turned out, we were able to get a new ball valve at the local hardware store, and although the valve body was different to Snoopy's the stems were interchangeable.
> 
> On day two we depth tested Trustworthy. I'll let Scott provide the details of the test, but Snoopy attempted to be the "chase sub" and follow Trustworthy down with Scott as crew. That plan was an utter failure. You would think that even in two foot visibility one could stay with something as big as a sub, or follow the rope down, but in practice it was simply impossible to keep ether in sight -- another lesson learned. In the process we discovered that, while on the surface the visibility was about two feet, forty five feet down it suddenly changed to zero visibility. Diving through the thermocline was like having someone turn the lights off in a room, it was a sudden and clear cut transition. 
> 
> After the depth test I gave a "ride dive" to our support diver, and for fun we just kept going down through the layer of dark water. To our surprise it cleared up again at 125 feet and stayed that way until our max depth of 220. We turned around at that point because the depth sounder indicated we would not find bottom within our 250 foot limit, having another 48 feet to go. The bottom was tantalizingly close to our limit, but we were not going to see it from an altitude of 18 feet. As it was, however, 220 feet was Snoopy's deepest dive to date and therefore of interest performance-wise. The OTS comms continued to be clear, if with a little reverb effect that made the other person sound very distant. The oil compensation in the motors and lights all worked well. The only issue experienced at that depth was a drip from the through-hull that brings the OTS transducer cable into the hull. This through-hull consists of a stainless insert about an inch and a half long that is drilled from the outside with a step drill, to form a conical stepped hole into which I potted the little 1/8" cable. I think there must be an insufficient bond to the cable jacket, since the other end of the cable is potted into the transducer. 
> 
> Speaking of the communications, one thing that bothers me about using a headset inside the sub is that it makes it hard to converse with the crew, yet if the headset is removed it is easy to miss a call from the surface. One of this year's innovations consists of a little amplified speaker that is connected to the headset's line out. This worked well. When the surface called, I could hear them and put on the headset only when needed. 
> 
> Now we had discovered that the layer of dark water had a bottom, we attempted one last dive. With Scott as crew, the idea was to follow one of Summerville's vertical walls down and try to keep the bottom in sight once we broke out of the murk at 125 feet. Our buoyancy was minimally negative, perhaps just a couple of pounds. Things went reasonably well at first, but once into the dark layer the navigation predictably became a challenge. The wall turned to a steep slope, which often arrested our descent. We slowly bounced and dragged our way down the slope. That might sound like a workable if somewhat inelegant method of progress, but Summersville's sloping bottom is not conveniently even, and in fact is strewn with gullies and huge boulders. It gets rather tricky trying to navigate in three dimensions with no visibility at all and no instrument beyond a depth gauge. When SCUBA diving in a blackout environment a diver would use his sense of tact, but in a submersible you find yourself trying to navigate via landings and small crashes instead. If the depth gauge stops and the bow is pointing a little higher than the stern, you've probably hung up by the bow and so you go full astern to get free. That's the most straight forward scenario, but most of the time you just get jolted from some vague direction that is hard to discern since pressure hulls have fewer nerve endings than a diver's fingertips. In poor visibility, you can normally see particles suspended in the water washing past the viewports, and get a sense of movement from them. But in this case we could not even make out particle movement. Other than the vertical movements reflected in the depth gauge readings, we could only detect movement by what I will call the built-in human accelerometers. The problem is, although you can sense movement it is very hard to quantify. For instance, we might both agree it felt like we were rotating to port, yet we would have no idea how many degrees we had turned. 
> 
> When the depth gauge stopped moving and horizontal thrusters wouldn't drag us down the slope, we tried levitating off the bottom with side thrusters and then moving horizontally with the stern thruster, hopefully to land a little further down the slope. That worked a few times, but eventually we found ourselves stuck, without the application of thrusters producing appreciable movement in any direction whatsoever, including upward. That's when you start wondering about getting wedged between boulders or under an overhang, but the reality was less alarming. During Trustworthy's depth test I'd spent an hour running around on the surface with very heavy thruster use in order to keep up with a pontoon boat that was constantly being blown across the lake by the wind, and then motoring back to our intended test site. That and the power consumed during an afternoon of diving had taken its toll, the batteries were fading and therefore the thrusters were pushing far less than normal. We squirted a little air into the saddle tanks and surfaced - time to go home.  
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Alec
>    
> 
>  
> <Sub scenery.JPG>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 07:57:57 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 07:57:57 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
In-Reply-To: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <537DE645.9020701@psubs.org>


And the new lights?



From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 08:41:01 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 08:41:01 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
In-Reply-To: <537DE645.9020701@psubs.org>
References: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <537DE645.9020701@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ7j-40DR5ob-874DM3WHKr4VMaE6Bpn7Qghc+YuajbJXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Not much to say about them really... the lights perfectly well, stood up to
bangs against the dock, and didn't leak any oil. They are very ruggedly
built, I highly recommend them. The brand is "Buyers" and the item number
is 1492128.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd

Here are instructions for adapting to sub use:

If you look at the back of the light, there is a large circular pattern in
the light body. The cable goes in just to the right of that circle, but
just to the left of the circle you will see a smaller circle about 1/4" in
diameter. Look carefully and you'll find the small circle is filled with
black silicone that blends into the body of the light. Scoop out that
sealant, and you'll find the head of a small screw. Careful, the screw is
small and very tight, so make sure you have a screw driver that fits it
well, you will need to torque it considerably to unstick. The screw appears
to have no function, it does not secure or connect anything. However, if
you remove it, you will have a hole you can use for filling with oil. The
hole is tiny, so you will need something like a syringe with a dispensing
needle. I used McMaster part # 75165A672 and filled with mineral oil. It is
an exercise in patience to chase out all the air, turning the light in all
directions and squeezing the front lens, but after about an hour I got it
to where no more bubbles appeared when the lens was topmost. Once filled
with oil, I put the screw back in and covered it with silicone sealant.
Apart from filling with oil, all I did was put some epoxy glue around the
entry point of the cable. I did two lights, one with mineral oil and the
other with mineral oil plus a small quantity of Marvel Mystery Oil. That
means one light is crystal clear, the other has a slight red tinge (Marvel
is red). I was just attempting to enrich the reds a bit, but I'd say I was
splitting hairs.


Two of these seems to me a sufficient amount of light for the bow of the
sub. It I had a K350 with the side viewports, I would consider two more.


Best,

Alec




On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> And the new lights?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 08:45:39 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 08:45:39 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive report
In-Reply-To: <5F977016-2BDF-4502-95D7-6127519B0218@yahoo.com>
References: <CABECYQ62-mUdQMHs92iwfs+acMwLL_6kyuBxSHNZErUfWSR8KQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5F977016-2BDF-4502-95D7-6127519B0218@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ4gdrO+6FBbPQaCJvRxMvh_h+oBxkmQY-sQGrwa6xdcvA@mail.gmail.com>

I think its just old, its been in Snoopy for a decade and I don't even know
if it was new before that. The gauge is mounted high in the coning tower,
and the inlet is at the bottom of the hull. Therefore water does enter the
line, but does not reach all the way to the instrument due to the trapped
air above it.


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:00 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the report Alec & Scott,
> I appreciate all the details.
> Alec, could sea water get in to your depth gauge? Do you have oil in the
> gauge line?
> I know what you mean about those lake thermoclines. I dived in to one &
> literally couldn't see
> my hand in front of my face.
> Alan
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 22/05/2014, at 1:48 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I see Scott just emailed a dive report, so here's the Snoopy half of it.
> >
> > Summersville Lake was looking fantastic and the weather ideal. I'll
> attach a low-res photo in the hope it comes in under whatever our file
> attachment limitation might be. The problem, however, was that this
> beautiful weather had been preceded by a deluge that raised the water level
> by fifteen feet in less than a week, ruining the visibility in the process.
> In consequence, our trip was good for sub testing but not for UW
> sightseeing and video.
> >
> > The first dive of day one was also Snoopy's first dive of the year, and
> I suspect the particularly harsh winter in an unheated garage took its
> toll. I had made a number of small improvements since the weather warmed
> up, but we had two issues on the first day. First, the depth gauge simply
> didn't work. Its an analog gauge that has been in Snoopy since she was
> built. I thought there might be a blockage in the line or a problem with
> the shutoff valve, but eventually discovered it was just the gauge
> mechanism itself that was "frozen". After taking out the glass and moving
> the needle by hand the gauge worked, but it will get replaced just in case.
> The second issue was more serious. When I tried to flood the saddle tanks,
> the stem of the corresponding ball valve simply sheared off. I didn't even
> force it, the break happened with very little torque applied. Those who
> examined the parts later thought it looked like a manufacturing defect. The
> stem was brass, so corrosion was not a!
>   factor. I was still able to dive, thanks to having two independent MBT
> systems, but that is something I'd consider a significant failure,
> particularly if it happened in a boat without redundant main ballast
> systems. As it turned out, we were able to get a new ball valve at the
> local hardware store, and although the valve body was different to Snoopy's
> the stems were interchangeable.
> >
> > On day two we depth tested Trustworthy. I'll let Scott provide the
> details of the test, but Snoopy attempted to be the "chase sub" and follow
> Trustworthy down with Scott as crew. That plan was an utter failure. You
> would think that even in two foot visibility one could stay with something
> as big as a sub, or follow the rope down, but in practice it was simply
> impossible to keep ether in sight -- another lesson learned. In the process
> we discovered that, while on the surface the visibility was about two feet,
> forty five feet down it suddenly changed to zero visibility. Diving through
> the thermocline was like having someone turn the lights off in a room, it
> was a sudden and clear cut transition.
> >
> > After the depth test I gave a "ride dive" to our support diver, and for
> fun we just kept going down through the layer of dark water. To our
> surprise it cleared up again at 125 feet and stayed that way until our max
> depth of 220. We turned around at that point because the depth sounder
> indicated we would not find bottom within our 250 foot limit, having
> another 48 feet to go. The bottom was tantalizingly close to our limit, but
> we were not going to see it from an altitude of 18 feet. As it was,
> however, 220 feet was Snoopy's deepest dive to date and therefore of
> interest performance-wise. The OTS comms continued to be clear, if with a
> little reverb effect that made the other person sound very distant. The oil
> compensation in the motors and lights all worked well. The only issue
> experienced at that depth was a drip from the through-hull that brings the
> OTS transducer cable into the hull. This through-hull consists of a
> stainless insert about an inch and a half long that is d!
>  rilled from the outside with a step drill, to form a conical stepped hole
> into which I potted the little 1/8" cable. I think there must be an
> insufficient bond to the cable jacket, since the other end of the cable is
> potted into the transducer.
> >
> > Speaking of the communications, one thing that bothers me about using a
> headset inside the sub is that it makes it hard to converse with the crew,
> yet if the headset is removed it is easy to miss a call from the surface.
> One of this year's innovations consists of a little amplified speaker that
> is connected to the headset's line out. This worked well. When the surface
> called, I could hear them and put on the headset only when needed.
> >
> > Now we had discovered that the layer of dark water had a bottom, we
> attempted one last dive. With Scott as crew, the idea was to follow one of
> Summerville's vertical walls down and try to keep the bottom in sight once
> we broke out of the murk at 125 feet. Our buoyancy was minimally negative,
> perhaps just a couple of pounds. Things went reasonably well at first, but
> once into the dark layer the navigation predictably became a challenge. The
> wall turned to a steep slope, which often arrested our descent. We slowly
> bounced and dragged our way down the slope. That might sound like a
> workable if somewhat inelegant method of progress, but Summersville's
> sloping bottom is not conveniently even, and in fact is strewn with gullies
> and huge boulders. It gets rather tricky trying to navigate in three
> dimensions with no visibility at all and no instrument beyond a depth
> gauge. When SCUBA diving in a blackout environment a diver would use his
> sense of tact, but in a submersible you fin!
>  d yourself trying to navigate via landings and small crashes instead. If
> the depth gauge stops and the bow is pointing a little higher than the
> stern, you've probably hung up by the bow and so you go full astern to get
> free. That's the most straight forward scenario, but most of the time you
> just get jolted from some vague direction that is hard to discern since
> pressure hulls have fewer nerve endings than a diver's fingertips. In poor
> visibility, you can normally see particles suspended in the water washing
> past the viewports, and get a sense of movement from them. But in this case
> we could not even make out particle movement. Other than the vertical
> movements reflected in the depth gauge readings, we could only detect
> movement by what I will call the built-in human accelerometers. The problem
> is, although you can sense movement it is very hard to quantify. For
> instance, we might both agree it felt like we were rotating to port, yet we
> would have no idea how many degrees w!
>  e had turned.
> >
> > When the depth gauge stopped moving and horizontal thrusters wouldn't
> drag us down the slope, we tried levitating off the bottom with side
> thrusters and then moving horizontally with the stern thruster, hopefully
> to land a little further down the slope. That worked a few times, but
> eventually we found ourselves stuck, without the application of thrusters
> producing appreciable movement in any direction whatsoever, including
> upward. That's when you start wondering about getting wedged between
> boulders or under an overhang, but the reality was less alarming. During
> Trustworthy's depth test I'd spent an hour running around on the surface
> with very heavy thruster use in order to keep up with a pontoon boat that
> was constantly being blown across the lake by the wind, and then motoring
> back to our intended test site. That and the power consumed during an
> afternoon of diving had taken its toll, the batteries were fading and
> therefore the thrusters were pushing far less than normal!
>  . We squirted a little air into the saddle tanks and surfaced - time to
> go home.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Alec
> >
> >
> >
> > <Sub scenery.JPG>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 10:15:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 15:15:29 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ7j-40DR5ob-874DM3WHKr4VMaE6Bpn7Qghc+YuajbJXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <537DE645.9020701@psubs.org>
 <CABECYQ7j-40DR5ob-874DM3WHKr4VMaE6Bpn7Qghc+YuajbJXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UAvKrYUQNXqqGv0k20MYAZH_v8sDe7sTvWfKwBLuOhBAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the dive report and report on lights Alec.  They sound really
good those lights.

Im putting my sub in the water Sat. (weather permitting) and im going to
hammer the lights, see if i get the white sprouting stuff like you did.
Regards
James

On 22 May 2014 13:41, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Not much to say about them really... the lights perfectly well, stood up
> to bangs against the dock, and didn't leak any oil. They are very ruggedly
> built, I highly recommend them. The brand is "Buyers" and the item number
> is 1492128.
>
>
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>
> Here are instructions for adapting to sub use:
>
> If you look at the back of the light, there is a large circular pattern in
> the light body. The cable goes in just to the right of that circle, but
> just to the left of the circle you will see a smaller circle about 1/4" in
> diameter. Look carefully and you'll find the small circle is filled with
> black silicone that blends into the body of the light. Scoop out that
> sealant, and you'll find the head of a small screw. Careful, the screw is
> small and very tight, so make sure you have a screw driver that fits it
> well, you will need to torque it considerably to unstick. The screw appears
> to have no function, it does not secure or connect anything. However, if
> you remove it, you will have a hole you can use for filling with oil. The
> hole is tiny, so you will need something like a syringe with a dispensing
> needle. I used McMaster part # 75165A672 and filled with mineral oil. It is
> an exercise in patience to chase out all the air, turning the light in all
> directions and squeezing the front lens, but after about an hour I got it
> to where no more bubbles appeared when the lens was topmost. Once filled
> with oil, I put the screw back in and covered it with silicone sealant.
> Apart from filling with oil, all I did was put some epoxy glue around the
> entry point of the cable. I did two lights, one with mineral oil and the
> other with mineral oil plus a small quantity of Marvel Mystery Oil. That
> means one light is crystal clear, the other has a slight red tinge (Marvel
> is red). I was just attempting to enrich the reds a bit, but I'd say I was
> splitting hairs.
>
>
> Two of these seems to me a sufficient amount of light for the bow of the
> sub. It I had a K350 with the side viewports, I would consider two more.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> And the new lights?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 10:23:41 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 10:23:41 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UAvKrYUQNXqqGv0k20MYAZH_v8sDe7sTvWfKwBLuOhBAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <537DE645.9020701@psubs.org>
 <CABECYQ7j-40DR5ob-874DM3WHKr4VMaE6Bpn7Qghc+YuajbJXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHpB=UAvKrYUQNXqqGv0k20MYAZH_v8sDe7sTvWfKwBLuOhBAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ413oTJieePybQ58YbhDaE39JATG+Pv3n1P0Lz_Z3hi8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi James,

I don't know if you want them to last or if you want to stress them
intentionally. If you want them to last, my theory is that they will be
fine if you use only one of them. Lets see!

All the best Saturday, please let us know how it goes.


Thanks,

Alec


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:15 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the dive report and report on lights Alec.  They sound really
> good those lights.
>
> Im putting my sub in the water Sat. (weather permitting) and im going to
> hammer the lights, see if i get the white sprouting stuff like you did.
> Regards
> James
>
> On 22 May 2014 13:41, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Not much to say about them really... the lights perfectly well, stood up
>> to bangs against the dock, and didn't leak any oil. They are very ruggedly
>> built, I highly recommend them. The brand is "Buyers" and the item number
>> is 1492128.
>>
>>
>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>>
>> Here are instructions for adapting to sub use:
>>
>> If you look at the back of the light, there is a large circular pattern
>> in the light body. The cable goes in just to the right of that circle, but
>> just to the left of the circle you will see a smaller circle about 1/4" in
>> diameter. Look carefully and you'll find the small circle is filled with
>> black silicone that blends into the body of the light. Scoop out that
>> sealant, and you'll find the head of a small screw. Careful, the screw is
>> small and very tight, so make sure you have a screw driver that fits it
>> well, you will need to torque it considerably to unstick. The screw appears
>> to have no function, it does not secure or connect anything. However, if
>> you remove it, you will have a hole you can use for filling with oil. The
>> hole is tiny, so you will need something like a syringe with a dispensing
>> needle. I used McMaster part # 75165A672 and filled with mineral oil. It is
>> an exercise in patience to chase out all the air, turning the light in all
>> directions and squeezing the front lens, but after about an hour I got it
>> to where no more bubbles appeared when the lens was topmost. Once filled
>> with oil, I put the screw back in and covered it with silicone sealant.
>> Apart from filling with oil, all I did was put some epoxy glue around the
>> entry point of the cable. I did two lights, one with mineral oil and the
>> other with mineral oil plus a small quantity of Marvel Mystery Oil. That
>> means one light is crystal clear, the other has a slight red tinge (Marvel
>> is red). I was just attempting to enrich the reds a bit, but I'd say I was
>> splitting hairs.
>>
>>
>> Two of these seems to me a sufficient amount of light for the bow of the
>> sub. It I had a K350 with the side viewports, I would consider two more.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And the new lights?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 10:45:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 07:45:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ7j-40DR5ob-874DM3WHKr4VMaE6Bpn7Qghc+YuajbJXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <537DE645.9020701@psubs.org>
 <CABECYQ7j-40DR5ob-874DM3WHKr4VMaE6Bpn7Qghc+YuajbJXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1400769947.36781.YahooMailNeo@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I'm curious if there is room in the housing to drill a larger hole similar to what we do on the Minn-Kota motors, to make filling easier.? That hole could be plugged easily enough with some kind of fitting.? I'll probably purchase one to dissect and see if compensation could go quicker than with a syringe.
?
Jon


________________________________
From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report



Not much to say about them really... the lights perfectly well, stood up to bangs against the dock, and didn't leak any oil. They are very ruggedly built, I highly recommend them. The brand is "Buyers" and the item number is 1492128.? 

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd


Here are instructions for adapting to sub use: 

If you look at the back of the light, there is a large circular pattern in the light body. The cable goes in just to the right of that circle, but just to the left of the circle you will see a smaller circle about 1/4" in diameter. Look carefully and you'll find the small circle is filled with black silicone that blends into the body of the light. Scoop out that sealant, and you'll find the head of a small screw. Careful, the screw is small and very tight, so make sure you have a screw driver that fits it well, you will need to torque it considerably to unstick. The screw appears to have no function, it does not secure or connect anything. However, if you remove it, you will have a hole you can use for filling with oil. The hole is tiny, so you will need something like a syringe with a dispensing needle. I used McMaster part # 75165A672 and filled with mineral oil. It is an exercise in patience to chase out all the air, turning the light in all
 directions and squeezing the front lens, but after about an hour I got it to where no more bubbles appeared when the lens was topmost. Once filled with oil, I put the screw back in and covered it with silicone sealant. Apart from filling with oil, all I did was put some epoxy glue around the entry point of the cable. I did two lights, one with mineral oil and the other with mineral oil plus a small quantity of Marvel Mystery Oil. That means one light is crystal clear, the other has a slight red tinge (Marvel is red). I was just attempting to enrich the reds a bit, but I'd say I was splitting hairs.


Two of these seems to me a sufficient amount of light for the bow of the sub. It I had a K350 with the side viewports, I would consider two more.


Best,

Alec?





On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


>And the new lights? 
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 10:59:40 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 10:59:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
Message-ID: <2d142.2a4dc68b.40af6adc@aol.com>

Alec,
When you were filling the light body with a syringe, was the  air escaping 
around the needle, or did the air have a separate exit  point?
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/22/2014 9:49:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

 
I'm curious if there is  room in the housing to drill a larger hole similar 
to what we do on the  Minn-Kota motors, to make filling easier.  That hole 
could be plugged  easily enough with some kind of fitting.  I'll probably 
purchase one to  dissect and see if compensation could go quicker than with a  
syringe.
 
Jon



 
 

From: Alec Smyth via  Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:41  AM
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report



 
Not much to say about them really... the lights perfectly well,  stood up 
to bangs against the dock, and didn't leak any oil. They are very  ruggedly 
built, I highly recommend them. The brand is "Buyers" and the item  number is 
1492128.   


http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12
-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd



Here are instructions for adapting to sub use:  


If you look at the back of the light, there is a large circular pattern  in 
the light body. The cable goes in just to the right of that circle, but  
just to the left of the circle you will see a smaller circle about 1/4" in  
diameter. Look carefully and you'll find the small circle is filled with black 
 silicone that blends into the body of the light. Scoop out that sealant, 
and  you'll find the head of a small screw. Careful, the screw is small and 
very  tight, so make sure you have a screw driver that fits it well, you will 
need  to torque it considerably to unstick. The screw appears to have no 
function,  it does not secure or connect anything. However, if you remove it, 
you will  have a hole you can use for filling with oil. The hole is tiny, so 
you will  need something like a syringe with a dispensing needle. I used 
McMaster part #  75165A672 and filled with mineral oil. It is an exercise in 
patience to chase  out all the air, turning the light in all directions and 
squeezing the front  lens, but after about an hour I got it to where no more 
bubbles appeared when  the lens was topmost. Once filled with oil, I put the 
screw back in and  covered it with silicone sealant. Apart from filling 
with oil, all I did was  put some epoxy glue around the entry point of the 
cable. I did two lights, one  with mineral oil and the other with mineral oil 
plus a small quantity of  Marvel Mystery Oil. That means one light is crystal 
clear, the other has a  slight red tinge (Marvel is red). I was just 
attempting to enrich the reds a  bit, but I'd say I was splitting hairs.




Two of these seems to me a sufficient amount of light for the bow of the  
sub. It I had a K350 with the side viewports, I would consider two more.




Best,

Alec 








On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jon  Wallace via Personal_Submersibles 
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >  
wrote:


And the new lights?  
 



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 11:35:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 11:35:29 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
In-Reply-To: <1400769947.36781.YahooMailNeo@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <929b2f95b59d44c7a54c58dfc2b8ff53@BY2PR05MB663.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <537DE645.9020701@psubs.org>
 <CABECYQ7j-40DR5ob-874DM3WHKr4VMaE6Bpn7Qghc+YuajbJXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1400769947.36781.YahooMailNeo@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ616iQKp_Vdw2857hErvUQOH4H87aLNsPda9NqC2qU=cA@mail.gmail.com>

I could not open up the housing without probably destroying it, so I have
no idea of the layout of internal components, and therefore where to drill.
Also, you'd have to be really careful about filings ending up inside. The
only way I can see of opening this up is to remove the lens, but it appears
to be bonded. I did try prying the lends off, but was was not successful at
least trying gently enough not to break things. If you do succeed in
drilling a hole, the filling will certainly be easier - but an hour isn't
so bad.




On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I'm curious if there is room in the housing to drill a larger hole similar
> to what we do on the Minn-Kota motors, to make filling easier.  That hole
> could be plugged easily enough with some kind of fitting.  I'll probably
> purchase one to dissect and see if compensation could go quicker than with
> a syringe.
>
> Jon
>
>   *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
>
>  Not much to say about them really... the lights perfectly well, stood up
> to bangs against the dock, and didn't leak any oil. They are very ruggedly
> built, I highly recommend them. The brand is "Buyers" and the item number
> is 1492128.
>
>
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
>
> Here are instructions for adapting to sub use:
>
> If you look at the back of the light, there is a large circular pattern in
> the light body. The cable goes in just to the right of that circle, but
> just to the left of the circle you will see a smaller circle about 1/4" in
> diameter. Look carefully and you'll find the small circle is filled with
> black silicone that blends into the body of the light. Scoop out that
> sealant, and you'll find the head of a small screw. Careful, the screw is
> small and very tight, so make sure you have a screw driver that fits it
> well, you will need to torque it considerably to unstick. The screw appears
> to have no function, it does not secure or connect anything. However, if
> you remove it, you will have a hole you can use for filling with oil. The
> hole is tiny, so you will need something like a syringe with a dispensing
> needle. I used McMaster part # 75165A672 and filled with mineral oil. It is
> an exercise in patience to chase out all the air, turning the light in all
> directions and squeezing the front lens, but after about an hour I got it
> to where no more bubbles appeared when the lens was topmost. Once filled
> with oil, I put the screw back in and covered it with silicone sealant.
> Apart from filling with oil, all I did was put some epoxy glue around the
> entry point of the cable. I did two lights, one with mineral oil and the
> other with mineral oil plus a small quantity of Marvel Mystery Oil. That
> means one light is crystal clear, the other has a slight red tinge (Marvel
> is red). I was just attempting to enrich the reds a bit, but I'd say I was
> splitting hairs.
>
>
> Two of these seems to me a sufficient amount of light for the bow of the
> sub. It I had a K350 with the side viewports, I would consider two more.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
> And the new lights?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 14:56:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 13:56:35 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
Message-ID: <ft530lcwqvcan5qycueg0l5a.1400784749148@email.android.com>

Guys,
I spent some time talking to humminbird about their 360 sonar. A word of caution it is NOT a solid unit and filled with air unlike the regular transducers that are a solid unit. I believe this means it would crush under presure. They said it has a 30' depth rating. I about bought one to upgrade my humminbird 898c. Just wanted to make sure no one made a $1500 purchase not knowing this.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 15:34:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 14:34:22 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Snoopy dive report
Message-ID: <eagay2qjdshwf51wgth5ocba.1400787153192@email.android.com>

Alec,
I got 4 lights on order. What a great discovery for psubs! Now I got to figure out how to make my head light work out. Haha.
Thank you,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Not much to say about them really... the lights perfectly well, stood up to bangs against the dock, and didn't leak any oil. They are very ruggedly built, I highly recommend them. The brand is "Buyers" and the item number is 1492128.?

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd

Here are instructions for adapting to sub use:

If you look at the back of the light, there is a large circular pattern in the light body. The cable goes in just to the right of that circle, but just to the left of the circle you will see a smaller circle about 1/4" in diameter. Look carefully and you'll find the small circle is filled with black silicone that blends into the body of the light. Scoop out that sealant, and you'll find the head of a small screw. Careful, the screw is small and very tight, so make sure you have a screw driver that fits it well, you will need to torque it considerably to unstick. The screw appears to have no function, it does not secure or connect anything. However, if you remove it, you will have a hole you can use for filling with oil. The hole is tiny, so you will need something like a syringe with a dispensing needle. I used McMaster part # 75165A672 and filled with mineral oil. It is an exercise in patience to chase out all the air, turning the light in all directions and squeezing the front lens, but after about an hour I got it to where no more bubbles appeared when the lens was topmost. Once filled with oil, I put the screw back in and covered it with silicone sealant. Apart from filling with oil, all I did was put some epoxy glue around the entry point of the cable. I did two lights, one with mineral oil and the other with mineral oil plus a small quantity of Marvel Mystery Oil. That means one light is crystal clear, the other has a slight red tinge (Marvel is red). I was just attempting to enrich the reds a bit, but I'd say I was splitting hairs.


Two of these seems to me a sufficient amount of light for the bow of the sub. It I had a K350 with the side viewports, I would consider two more.


Best,

Alec?

?


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

And the new lights?



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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 16:28:58 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 22:28:58 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
In-Reply-To: <ft530lcwqvcan5qycueg0l5a.1400784749148@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAF9BfaN5SZkqgTd0QXrpG8AEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

I heard that the 360 needs GPS data. Is that true??

Also not okay for underwater use.

 

Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 22 mei 2014 20:57
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360

 

Guys,

I spent some time talking to humminbird about their 360 sonar. A word of
caution it is NOT a solid unit and filled with air unlike the regular
transducers that are a solid unit. I believe this means it would crush under
presure. They said it has a 30' depth rating. I about bought one to upgrade
my humminbird 898c. Just wanted to make sure no one made a $1500 purchase
not knowing this.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 16:45:24 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 15:45:24 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
Message-ID: <3yy4ca6mphuqsvsdb41nxxmo.1400791468796@email.android.com>

Emile,
The humminbird 898c that I have has a gps. I took apart the antenna and potted it in epoxy and it works like a dream.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneEmile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:I heard that the 360 needs GPS data. Is that true??
Also not okay for underwater use.
?
Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 22 mei 2014 20:57
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
?
Guys,
I spent some time talking to humminbird about their 360 sonar. A word of caution it is NOT a solid unit and filled with air unlike the regular transducers that are a solid unit. I believe this means it would crush under presure. They said it has a 30' depth rating. I about bought one to upgrade my humminbird 898c. Just wanted to make sure no one made a $1500 purchase not knowing this.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 16:58:57 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 22:58:57 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
In-Reply-To: <3yy4ca6mphuqsvsdb41nxxmo.1400791468796@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAkc1wyTDRUEe7goGxaKrElgEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

Scott, I use the 797c si  (compact and cheap)  that works also withoud GPS.

I meand that the 360 may not produce sonar image without GPS.

 

Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 22 mei 2014 22:45
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360

 

Emile,

The humminbird 898c that I have has a gps. I took apart the antenna and
potted it in epoxy and it works like a dream.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone


Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

I heard that the 360 needs GPS data. Is that true??

Also not okay for underwater use.

 

Emile

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 22 mei 2014 20:57
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360

 

Guys,

I spent some time talking to humminbird about their 360 sonar. A word of
caution it is NOT a solid unit and filled with air unlike the regular
transducers that are a solid unit. I believe this means it would crush under
presure. They said it has a 30' depth rating. I about bought one to upgrade
my humminbird 898c. Just wanted to make sure no one made a $1500 purchase
not knowing this.

Thanks,

Scott Waters

 

 

 

 

Sent from my U.S. CellularC Smartphone

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 17:21:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 16:21:22 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
Message-ID: <xip5br5wbit52dnqb86l0dxh.1400793475545@email.android.com>

It does. The GPS communicates with computer annd so does the sonar. This allows you to select something you want to mark a waypoint on and the GPS logs it. That way you can go back to that sonar waypoint via GPS. The 898c that I have works the same. When you go down, there is a little icon that pops up that means GPS signal lost.
I wish the 360 unit was oil compensated. That would make my sonar so much more effective being both side scan and forward looking.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneEmile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott, I use the 797c si? (compact and cheap) ?that works also withoud GPS.
I meand that the 360 may not produce sonar image without GPS.
?
Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 22 mei 2014 22:45
Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
?
Emile,
The humminbird 898c that I have has a gps. I took apart the antenna and potted it in epoxy and it works like a dream.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
I heard that the 360 needs GPS data. Is that true??
Also not okay for underwater use.
?
Emile
?
Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens swaters via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: donderdag 22 mei 2014 20:57
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Humminbird 360
?
Guys,
I spent some time talking to humminbird about their 360 sonar. A word of caution it is NOT a solid unit and filled with air unlike the regular transducers that are a solid unit. I believe this means it would crush under presure. They said it has a 30' depth rating. I about bought one to upgrade my humminbird 898c. Just wanted to make sure no one made a $1500 purchase not knowing this.
Thanks,
Scott Waters
?
?
?
?
Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 22 18:00:06 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 15:00:06 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS Convention 2015
Message-ID: <20140522150006.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.47b58c31fd.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 01:37:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 00:37:13 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth test
Message-ID: <mgse0g7adayjcqib6ejmorwr.1400823335835@email.android.com>

Hey guys,
I need to find a lake to depth test Trustworthy to 450'. I live in Salina, KS. How can I find the nearest lake of this depth?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 02:00:53 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 02:00:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth test
Message-ID: <17bfd.12e770b8.40b03e15@aol.com>

Scott,
Here's a list of deepest lakes in the US starting with the deepest -  
several pages.
http://www.lakelubbers.com/usa-deepest-lakes-in-usa-L1-C3/
-Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/23/2014 12:37:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Hey guys,
I need to find a lake to depth test Trustworthy to 450'. I live in  Salina, 
KS. How can I find the nearest lake of this depth?
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular?  Smartphone



_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 11:11:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:11:35 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth test
Message-ID: <20140523081135.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1f9c2e53da.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 11:17:21 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:17:21 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam
Message-ID: <20140523081721.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.bf8f1bbc65.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 11:25:22 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 11:25:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam
In-Reply-To: <20140523081721.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.bf8f1bbc65.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140523081721.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.bf8f1bbc65.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <8D144B258668612-A6C-ED07@webmail-vm050.sysops.aol.com>

Good question. I've got low overhead in the garage, and that would be a very nice addition to my moving-the-sub gear.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: psubs <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:17 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam



What size I beam should I use for lifting the K-350? I am talking about the same thing Dan Hryhorcoff used in his picture with the crane picking up Persistence.
 

 
Thanks,
Scott Waters


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 11:33:01 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 11:33:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth test
Message-ID: <3bd0a.10d787ff.40b0c42d@aol.com>

You're quite welcome, Scott.  I kind of wanted to  know the answer myself.  
-Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/23/2014 10:12:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Thanks Jim!
-Scott Waters 
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth test
From: via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
Date:  Thu, May 22, 2014 11:00 pm
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 

Scott,
Here's a list of deepest lakes in the US starting with the deepest -  
several pages.
http://www.lakelubbers.com/usa-deepest-lakes-in-usa-L1-C3/
-Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/23/2014 12:37:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   writes:

Hey guys,
I need to find a lake to depth test Trustworthy to 450'. I live in  Salina, 
KS. How can I find the nearest lake of this depth?
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular?  Smartphone



_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


 
____________________________________
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 12:54:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 09:54:15 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <20140523095415.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.593ebd12f1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 13:42:51 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 13:42:51 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <20140523095415.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.593ebd12f1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140523095415.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.593ebd12f1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ6vH1w9bGm_gNxzsS_X_nBmYTGE=9RpN_kwLgeQLR9iNA@mail.gmail.com>

Caution... that one's like the open ocean, and a depth test can get pretty
complicated when you add wind and waves!


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to 450'
> is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with this
> test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
> depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 13:45:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 13:45:07 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <20140523095415.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.593ebd12f1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140523095415.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.593ebd12f1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGzk8zVFpNqXWZnELzB2cVfw0r-x_n27-iU07CrWxaN7=g@mail.gmail.com>

Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.  I am close enough I could
be support or whatever. You should hear back from others as we do have
member in that area who may have contacts/experience.

Steve


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to 450'
> is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with this
> test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
> depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 14:02:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 13:02:17 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <l0c09xfyfyx8qic3nild6xal.1400867970258@email.android.com>

Thanks guys. Is there a such thing as a calm day on lake Michigan? Alec, do you have a suggestion as to where to test that is somewhat close to Salina, KS? I found a lake in Wyoming (14 hour drive) that is a possability.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Caution... that one's like the open ocean, and a depth test can get pretty complicated when you add wind and waves!


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
Thanks,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 14:05:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Christopher Graca via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 13:05:52 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <CAAGGCGzk8zVFpNqXWZnELzB2cVfw0r-x_n27-iU07CrWxaN7=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140523095415.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.593ebd12f1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <CAAGGCGzk8zVFpNqXWZnELzB2cVfw0r-x_n27-iU07CrWxaN7=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADT3QhAsp24o3JswDd7j_1xHYf7gNeq0BFbbC77PVURh3yweKg@mail.gmail.com>

Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake to see where you can test it to
450'

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg

I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any contacts. I can help with
support if needed.

-Chris




On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.  I am close enough I could
> be support or whatever. You should hear back from others as we do have
> member in that area who may have contacts/experience.
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to 450'
>> is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with this
>> test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
>> depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 15:15:58 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 12:15:58 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <20140523121558.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.edf28075f6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 15:15:12 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:15:12 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam
References: <20140523081721.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.bf8f1bbc65.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <8D144B258668612-A6C-ED07@webmail-vm050.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <003a01cf76bb$529ff3d0$9101a8c0@hryhorcoff2>

The beam I used wasn't calculated.  It was just something I had laying around and looked heavy enough to do the job.  
It's a 3 X 5.7 S beam.  That's three inches high, weighing 5.7 pounds per foot, Standard I beam.  
It's 2.33 inches wide.  It works fine.  

Dan Hryhorcoff
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: via Personal_Submersibles 
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam


  Good question. I've got low overhead in the garage, and that would be a very nice addition to my moving-the-sub gear. 
  Vance



  -----Original Message-----
  From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: psubs <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Sent: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:17 am
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam


  What size I beam should I use for lifting the K-350? I am talking about the same thing Dan Hryhorcoff used in his picture with the crane picking up Persistence.



  Thanks,
  Scott Waters
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 15:27:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 14:27:15 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <20140523121558.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.edf28075f6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140523121558.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.edf28075f6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwUSEW0zW9-Fb5s_6mt_iZ2QbNZP3ZQH_24aR=9zvjKGhuA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Thanks Chris,
> Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to avoid having to go out
> to the center. I might be better going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour
> drive for me. I think I would be a little more protected from the elements
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
> From: Christopher Graca via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake to see where you can test it
> to 450'
>
> http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
>
> I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any contacts. I can help with
> support if needed.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>>  Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.  I am close enough I
>> could be support or whatever. You should hear back from others as we do
>> have member in that area who may have contacts/experience.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>  On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>>   After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to
>>> 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with
>>> this test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
>>> depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott Waters
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 15:35:10 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 14:35:10 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <CAGbdwUSEW0zW9-Fb5s_6mt_iZ2QbNZP3ZQH_24aR=9zvjKGhuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140523121558.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.edf28075f6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
 <CAGbdwUSEW0zW9-Fb5s_6mt_iZ2QbNZP3ZQH_24aR=9zvjKGhuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwUT-b2k3H3D1ZMdwkp-7V+_-7pmF4sgyPMBDLFJa4a5AHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

I'm about  18 miles inland at Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as
well as a well equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just had
it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an exceptional ramp for
launching etc. The bad news is that it is about 21 miles out to get to 450
feet of depth.

Best Regards,


Jim K
(920) 323-9200


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Chris,
>> Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to avoid having to go out
>> to the center. I might be better going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour
>> drive for me. I think I would be a little more protected from the elements
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
>> From: Christopher Graca via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>> Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake to see where you can test it
>> to 450'
>>
>> http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
>>
>> I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any contacts. I can help with
>> support if needed.
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>>  Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.  I am close enough I
>>> could be support or whatever. You should hear back from others as we do
>>> have member in that area who may have contacts/experience.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to
>>>> 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with
>>>> this test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
>>>> depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Scott Waters
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 15:45:40 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 14:45:40 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam
Message-ID: <ykwip4u4v3lat34wqg90ybl8.1400874327873@email.android.com>

Thanks Dan!
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:The beam I used wasn't calculated.? It was just something I had laying around and looked heavy enough to do the job.?
It's a 3 X 5.7 S beam.? That's three inches high, weighing 5.7 pounds per foot, Standard I beam.?
It's 2.33 inches wide.? It works fine.?
?
Dan Hryhorcoff
----- Original Message -----
From: via Personal_Submersibles
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam

Good question. I've got low overhead in the garage, and that would be a very nice addition to my moving-the-sub gear.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: psubs <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:17 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam

What size I beam should I use for lifting the K-350? I am talking about the same thing Dan Hryhorcoff used in his picture with the crane picking up Persistence.
?

?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 15:50:18 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 13:50:18 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam
In-Reply-To: <20140523081721.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.bf8f1bbc65.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140523081721.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.bf8f1bbc65.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <537FA67A.7080000@telus.net>

Scott - this is easily calculated.  What is the weight of the sub, the
distance between the sub lifting lugs, and the distance to the crane
lifting lug at the balance point?

Sean


On 2014-05-23 09:17, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> What size I beam should I use for lifting the K-350? I am talking
> about the same thing Dan Hryhorcoff used in his picture with the crane
> picking up Persistence.
>  
>  
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 16:10:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:10:35 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lifting I beam
Message-ID: <emm28kwhnavt1wi4q1odt3i4.1400875047760@email.android.com>

Weight of the sub is 4,500lbs
Distance between lugs is 42"
The lifting lug is located at the 2/3 point of the beam.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott - this is easily calculated.?       What is the weight of the sub, the distance between the sub lifting lugs, and the distance to the crane lifting lug at the balance point?

Sean


On 2014-05-23 09:17, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
What size I beam should I use for lifting the K-350? I am talking about the same thing Dan Hryhorcoff used in his picture with the crane picking up Persistence.
?

?
Thanks,
Scott Waters



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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 16:12:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 15:12:35 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <4al96h4eq8tw3qyk62ysvd6e.1400875893913@email.android.com>

Holy cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why can't Kansas have a deep clear lake? Haha
-Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi Scott,

I'm about ?18 miles inland at Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just had it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an exceptional ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about 21 miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.

Best Regards,


Jim K
(920) 323-9200


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net> wrote:



On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Thanks Chris,
Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I think I would be a little more protected from the elements
?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
From: Christopher Graca via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake to see where you can test it to 450'

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg

I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any contacts. I can help with support if needed.

-Chris




On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.? I am close enough I could be support or whatever. You should hear back from others as we do have member in that area who may have contacts/experience.

Steve


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
Thanks,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 16:55:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 16:55:33 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <l0c09xfyfyx8qic3nild6xal.1400867970258@email.android.com>
References: <l0c09xfyfyx8qic3nild6xal.1400867970258@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ73e+Vxw7VZ5oWL0_Dx66WXfaT9dCtiSqBmv-kRd9LmmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Seneca Lake in NY is excellent, because it's both very deep and very
narrow, meaning the test occurs close to the ramp and if there is wind,
unless it happens to be blowing straight down the lake there isn't much
distance for waves to build up. Both Dan H. and I did our tests there. But
it isn't exactly next door to Kansas!


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:02 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Thanks guys. Is there a such thing as a calm day on lake Michigan? Alec,
> do you have a suggestion as to where to test that is somewhat close to
> Salina, KS? I found a lake in Wyoming (14 hour drive) that is a possability.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
> Caution... that one's like the open ocean, and a depth test can get pretty
> complicated when you add wind and waves!
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to 450'
>> is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with this
>> test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
>> depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Waters
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 17:03:38 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 16:03:38 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <jithq1xqyeksjci455tubjba.1400878946739@email.android.com>

Anyone got a C-130 airplane to pick up Trustworthy and take it to Seneca Lake? Haha.
Alec, what about Fremont lake, WY?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneAlec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Seneca Lake in NY is excellent, because it's both very deep and very narrow, meaning the test occurs close to the ramp and if there is wind, unless it happens to be blowing straight down the lake there isn't much distance for waves to build up. Both Dan H. and I did our tests there. But it isn't exactly next door to Kansas!


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:02 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Thanks guys. Is there a such thing as a calm day on lake Michigan? Alec, do you have a suggestion as to where to test that is somewhat close to Salina, KS? I found a lake in Wyoming (14 hour drive) that is a possability.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Caution... that one's like the open ocean, and a depth test can get pretty complicated when you add wind and waves!


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
After doing some research, I think my best shot for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
Thanks,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 21:28:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 18:28:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <4al96h4eq8tw3qyk62ysvd6e.1400875893913@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400894909.41666.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


Scott, Do you rent backhoes ?--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
 
 Holy
 cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
 can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
 Haha-Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent from my U.S.
 Cellular? Smartphone 
 "kocpnt tds.net via
 Personal_Submersibles"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Hi Scott,
 I'm about ?18 miles inland at
 Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
 equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just had
 it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an exceptional
 ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about 21
 miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
 
 Best Regards,
 
 Jim
 K(920) 323-9200
 
 On Fri,
 May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 Thanks
 Chris,
 Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
 avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
 going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
 think I would be a little more protected from the
 elements
 
 
 ?
 Thanks,
 Scott Waters?
 ?
 
 -------- Original Message --------
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 From: Christopher Graca via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
 Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
 To:
 Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
 
 Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
 to see where you can test it to 450'
 
 
 http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
 
 
 
 I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
 contacts. I can help with support if needed.
 
 
 -Chris
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Fri, May 23, 2014
 at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.? I am
 close enough I could be support or whatever. You should hear
 back from others as we do have member in that area who may
 have contacts/experience.
 
 Steve
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 After doing some research, I think my best shot
 for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have
 a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
 Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
 depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
 
 
 Thanks,
 Scott Waters
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 23 21:40:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 20:40:52 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <cx085vt37i9uayhwig7xpv5j.1400895640619@email.android.com>

Yes.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphonePete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Scott, Do you rent backhoes ?--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM

Holy
cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
Haha-Scott Waters



Sent from my U.S.
Cellular? Smartphone 
"kocpnt tds.net via
Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hi Scott,
I'm about ?18 miles inland at
Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just had
it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an exceptional
ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about 21
miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.

Best Regards,

Jim
K(920) 323-9200

On Fri,
May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>
wrote:





On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

Thanks
Chris,
Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
think I would be a little more protected from the
elements


?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
From: Christopher Graca via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>


Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
To:
Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>


Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
to see where you can test it to 450'


http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg



I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
contacts. I can help with support if needed.


-Chris







On Fri, May 23, 2014
at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:





Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.? I am
close enough I could be support or whatever. You should hear
back from others as we do have member in that area who may
have contacts/experience.

Steve







On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:





After doing some research, I think my best shot
for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have
a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
depth, unless someone has another suggestion?


Thanks,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org


http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________

Personal_Submersibles mailing list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org

http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 04:42:51 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 03:42:51 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <cx085vt37i9uayhwig7xpv5j.1400895640619@email.android.com>
References: <cx085vt37i9uayhwig7xpv5j.1400895640619@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwURWuNGJ_9coXw9GOB_FYBS2L-s8BBtFHXxAjxG-8cQjyw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11 miles!

Best Regards,

Jim K


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Yes.
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
>
> Scott, Do you rent backhoes ?--------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
>
> Holy
> cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
> can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
> Haha-Scott Waters
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S.
> Cellular? Smartphone
> "kocpnt tds.net via
> Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> I'm about  18 miles inland at
> Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
> equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just had
> it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an exceptional
> ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about 21
> miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jim
> K(920) 323-9200
>
> On Fri,
> May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks
> Chris,
> Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
> avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
> going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
> think I would be a little more protected from the
> elements
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
> From: Christopher Graca via
> Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
> Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
> To:
> Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
> Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
> to see where you can test it to 450'
>
>
> http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
>
>
>
> I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
> contacts. I can help with support if needed.
>
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014
> at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.  I am
> close enough I could be support or whatever. You should hear
> back from others as we do have member in that area who may
> have contacts/experience.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> After doing some research, I think my best shot
> for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have
> a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
> Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
> depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 10:09:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 09:09:52 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <0o59ieu0822r5cyycjrc0g3w.1400940333936@email.android.com>

Jim, I am thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet and drive to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the boat ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4 mph, but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like the ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very rought several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class boat with a crane they would loan me? Hehe.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone"kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hi Scott,

Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11 miles!

Best Regards,

Jim K


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Yes.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Scott, Do you rent backhoes ?--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM

Holy
cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
Haha-Scott Waters



Sent from my U.S.
Cellular? Smartphone 
"kocpnt tds.net via
Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hi Scott,
I'm about ?18 miles inland at
Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just had
it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an exceptional
ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about 21
miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.

Best Regards,

Jim
K(920) 323-9200

On Fri,
May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>
wrote:





On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

Thanks
Chris,
Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
think I would be a little more protected from the
elements


?
Thanks,
Scott Waters?
?

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
From: Christopher Graca via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>


Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
To:
Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>


Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
to see where you can test it to 450'


http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg



I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
contacts. I can help with support if needed.


-Chris







On Fri, May 23, 2014
at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:





Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.? I am
close enough I could be support or whatever. You should hear
back from others as we do have member in that area who may
have contacts/experience.

Steve







On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:





After doing some research, I think my best shot
for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body have
a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty of
depth, unless someone has another suggestion?


Thanks,
Scott Waters

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org


http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________

Personal_Submersibles mailing list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org

http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles







-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 10:27:04 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <0o59ieu0822r5cyycjrc0g3w.1400940333936@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400941624.45205.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Scott,
You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes to have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing these deep tests and have returned home empty handed.  Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.  Just bring it up to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off shore.  I will help you.
We can use my barge.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
 
 Jim, I am
 thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet and drive
 to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the boat
 ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4 mph,
 but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like the
 ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very rought
 several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class boat
 with a crane they would loan me?
 Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Hi Scott,
 Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
 miles!
 Best Regards,
 Jim K
 
 
 On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
  
 Pete Niedermayr via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
 Scott, Do you rent backhoes
 ?--------------------------------------------
 
 On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
  Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
  
  Holy
  cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
  can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
  Haha-Scott Waters
  
  
  
  Sent from my U.S.
  Cellular? Smartphone 
 
  "kocpnt tds.net via
  Personal_Submersibles"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Hi Scott,
  I'm about ?18 miles inland at
  Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
  equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just
 had
  it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
 exceptional
 
  ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about
 21
  miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
  
  Best Regards,
  
  Jim
  K(920) 323-9200
  
  On Fri,
  May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>
 
  wrote:
  
  
  
  
  
  On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
 
  
  Thanks
  Chris,
  Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
  avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
  going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
  think I would be a little more protected from the
 
  elements
  
  
  ?
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters?
  ?
  
  -------- Original Message --------
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  From: Christopher Graca via
  Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
  
  
  Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
  To:
  Personal Submersibles General Discussion
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  
 
  Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
  to see where you can test it to 450'
  
  
  http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
 
  
  
  
  I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
  contacts. I can help with support if needed.
  
  
  -Chris
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  On Fri, May 23, 2014
  at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
  wrote:
  
  
  
  
  
  Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.? I am
  close enough I could be support or whatever. You should
 hear
  back from others as we do have member in that area who may
 
  have contacts/experience.
  
  Steve
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
  wrote:
  
  
  
  
  
  After doing some research, I think my best shot
  for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body
 have
  a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
  Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty
 of
 
  depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
  
  
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
 
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
  
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
  
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
  
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
  
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 11:14:24 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 10:14:24 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <1400941624.45205.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <0o59ieu0822r5cyycjrc0g3w.1400940333936@email.android.com>
 <1400941624.45205.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGbdwUQb3F=KqnKKufJbW1om9=E31X+F7Rhdj+byXozWCVS2zg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

I might have to do seneca lake myself sometime. I do business with a water
based construction company. They will help me when their equipment is home,
but that far out it's still very expensive.

Best regards,

Jim k


On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 9:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> Scott,
> You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes to have ideal
> conditions. I have lots of experience doing these deep tests and have
> returned home empty handed.  Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.  Just
> bring it up to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off shore.  I
> will help you.
> We can use my barge.
> Hank--------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
>  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
>
>  Jim, I am
>  thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet and drive
>  to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the boat
>  ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4 mph,
>  but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like the
>  ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very rought
>  several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class boat
>  with a crane they would loan me?
>  Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
>
>
>
>  Sent
>  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>  "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  Hi Scott,
>  Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
>  miles!
>  Best Regards,
>  Jim K
>
>
>  On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>  Yes. Thanks,Scott Waters
>
>
>
>  Sent
>  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>  Pete Niedermayr via
>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>  Scott, Do you rent backhoes
>  ?--------------------------------------------
>
>  On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
>   To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>   Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
>
>   Holy
>   cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
>   can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
>   Haha-Scott Waters
>
>
>
>   Sent from my U.S.
>   Cellular? Smartphone
>
>   "kocpnt tds.net via
>   Personal_Submersibles"
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>   Hi Scott,
>   I'm about  18 miles inland at
>   Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
>   equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just
>  had
>   it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
>  exceptional
>
>   ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about
>  21
>   miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
>
>   Best Regards,
>
>   Jim
>   K(920) 323-9200
>
>   On Fri,
>   May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>   wrote:
>
>
>   Thanks
>   Chris,
>   Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
>   avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
>   going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
>   think I would be a little more protected from the
>
>   elements
>
>
>
>   Thanks,
>   Scott Waters
>
>
>   -------- Original Message --------
>   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
>   From: Christopher Graca via
>   Personal_Submersibles
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>
>   Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
>   To:
>   Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>
>   Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
>   to see where you can test it to 450'
>
>
>   http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
>
>
>
>
>   I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
>   contacts. I can help with support if needed.
>
>
>   -Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Fri, May 23, 2014
>   at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>   Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.  I am
>   close enough I could be support or whatever. You should
>  hear
>   back from others as we do have member in that area who may
>
>   have contacts/experience.
>
>   Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
>   Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>   After doing some research, I think my best shot
>   for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body
>  have
>   a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
>   Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty
>  of
>
>   depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
>
>
>   Thanks,
>   Scott Waters
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 11:57:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 08:57:17 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <1400941624.45205.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <0o59ieu0822r5cyycjrc0g3w.1400940333936@email.android.com>
 <1400941624.45205.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEGV4B8DDQi7OyQ9Favv7T9+G+2HHHz1A-Euqm5SzU2emA@mail.gmail.com>

Hank, Hopefully that is not where the 2000 lb gold nugget is, otherwise
I'll be hovering 450 feet above it.
David
On May 24, 2014 7:27 AM, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> Scott,
> You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes to have ideal
> conditions. I have lots of experience doing these deep tests and have
> returned home empty handed.  Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.  Just
> bring it up to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off shore.  I
> will help you.
> We can use my barge.
> Hank--------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
>  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
>
>  Jim, I am
>  thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet and drive
>  to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the boat
>  ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4 mph,
>  but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like the
>  ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very rought
>  several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class boat
>  with a crane they would loan me?
>  Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
>
>
>
>  Sent
>  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>  "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  Hi Scott,
>  Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
>  miles!
>  Best Regards,
>  Jim K
>
>
>  On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>  Yes. Thanks,Scott Waters
>
>
>
>  Sent
>  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
>  Pete Niedermayr via
>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>  Scott, Do you rent backhoes
>  ?--------------------------------------------
>
>  On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
>   To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>   Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
>
>   Holy
>   cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
>   can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
>   Haha-Scott Waters
>
>
>
>   Sent from my U.S.
>   Cellular? Smartphone
>
>   "kocpnt tds.net via
>   Personal_Submersibles"
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>
>   Hi Scott,
>   I'm about  18 miles inland at
>   Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
>   equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just
>  had
>   it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
>  exceptional
>
>   ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about
>  21
>   miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
>
>   Best Regards,
>
>   Jim
>   K(920) 323-9200
>
>   On Fri,
>   May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>   wrote:
>
>
>   Thanks
>   Chris,
>   Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
>   avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
>   going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
>   think I would be a little more protected from the
>
>   elements
>
>
>
>   Thanks,
>   Scott Waters
>
>
>   -------- Original Message --------
>   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
>   From: Christopher Graca via
>   Personal_Submersibles
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>
>   Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
>   To:
>   Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>
>   Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
>   to see where you can test it to 450'
>
>
>   http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
>
>
>
>
>   I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
>   contacts. I can help with support if needed.
>
>
>   -Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Fri, May 23, 2014
>   at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>   Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.  I am
>   close enough I could be support or whatever. You should
>  hear
>   back from others as we do have member in that area who may
>
>   have contacts/experience.
>
>   Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
>   Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>   After doing some research, I think my best shot
>   for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body
>  have
>   a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
>   Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty
>  of
>
>   depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
>
>
>   Thanks,
>   Scott Waters
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>   Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>   http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 12:24:54 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 11:24:54 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <019ynthi353xhhfrwykoov4s.1400948649179@email.android.com>

Hank,
That is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do you live in Canada?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Scott,
You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes to have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing these deep tests and have returned home empty handed.? Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.? Just bring it up to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off shore.? I will help you.
We can use my barge.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM

Jim, I am
thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet and drive
to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the boat
ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4 mph,
but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like the
ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very rought
several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class boat
with a crane they would loan me?
Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
"kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hi Scott,
Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
miles!
Best Regards,
Jim K


On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
? 
Pete Niedermayr via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

Scott, Do you rent backhoes
?--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

? Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
? 
? Holy
? cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B. Why
? can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
? Haha-Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from my U.S.
? Cellular? Smartphone 

? "kocpnt tds.net via
? Personal_Submersibles"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

? Hi Scott,
? I'm about ?18 miles inland at
? Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a well
? equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also! Just
had
? it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
exceptional

? ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is about
21
? miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
? 
? Best Regards,
? 
? Jim
? K(920) 323-9200
? 
? On Fri,
? May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net <kocpnt at tds.net>

? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:

? 
? Thanks
? Chris,
? Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
? avoid having to go out to the center. I might be better
? going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for me. I
? think I would be a little more protected from the

? elements
? 
? 
? ?
? Thanks,
? Scott Waters?
? ?
? 
? -------- Original Message --------
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? From: Christopher Graca via
? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

? 
? 
? Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
? To:
? Personal Submersibles General Discussion
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 

? Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
? to see where you can test it to 450'
? 
? 
? http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg

? 
? 
? 
? I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
? contacts. I can help with support if needed.
? 
? 
? -Chris
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014
? at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.? I am
? close enough I could be support or whatever. You should
hear
? back from others as we do have member in that area who may

? have contacts/experience.
? 
? Steve
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
? Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? After doing some research, I think my best shot
? for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any body
have
? a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
? Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers plenty
of

? depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
? 
? 
? Thanks,
? Scott Waters
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org

? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________

? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? 
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org

? 
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

? 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



_______________________________________________

Personal_Submersibles mailing list

Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org

http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 12:30:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 09:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <019ynthi353xhhfrwykoov4s.1400948649179@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400949017.42432.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Scott,
I live in Windermere BC, 5hr from Slocan lake.  Google Slocan lake BC and you can see the awsome lake and it is crystal clear. 
Hank  -------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:24 PM
 
 Hank,That
 is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do you
 live in Canada?Thanks,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 Scott,
 You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes to
 have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing these
 deep tests and have returned home empty handed.?
 Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.? Just bring it up
 to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off
 shore.? I will help you.
 We can use my barge.
 Hank--------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
  
  Jim, I am
  thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet and
 drive
  to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the boat
  ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4 mph,
  but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like the
  ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very rought
  several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class boat
  with a crane they would loan me?
  Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
  "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  Hi Scott,
  Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
  miles!
  Best Regards,
  Jim K
  
  
  On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
  Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
  Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 ? 
  Pete Niedermayr via
  Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
  Scott, Do you rent backhoes
  ?--------------------------------------------
  
  On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
 ? Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
 ? 
 ? Holy
 ? cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B.
 Why
 ? can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
 ? Haha-Scott Waters
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent from my U.S.
 ? Cellular? Smartphone 
  
 ? "kocpnt tds.net via
 ? Personal_Submersibles"
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
 ? Hi Scott,
 ? I'm about ?18 miles inland at
 ? Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a
 well
 ? equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also!
 Just
  had
 ? it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
  exceptional
  
 ? ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is
 about
  21
 ? miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
 ? 
 ? Best Regards,
 ? 
 ? Jim
 ? K(920) 323-9200
 ? 
 ? On Fri,
 ? May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net
 <kocpnt at tds.net>
  
 ? wrote:
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via
 Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
  
 ? 
 ? Thanks
 ? Chris,
 ? Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
 ? avoid having to go out to the center. I might be
 better
 ? going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for
 me. I
 ? think I would be a little more protected from the
  
 ? elements
 ? 
 ? 
 ? ?
 ? Thanks,
 ? Scott Waters?
 ? ?
 ? 
 ? -------- Original Message --------
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 ? From: Christopher Graca via
 ? Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
 ? To:
 ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
 ? 
  
 ? Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
 ? to see where you can test it to 450'
 ? 
 ? 
 ? http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
 ? contacts. I can help with support if needed.
 ? 
 ? 
 ? -Chris
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? On Fri, May 23, 2014
 ? at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
 ? wrote:
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.?
 I am
 ? close enough I could be support or whatever. You
 should
  hear
 ? back from others as we do have member in that area
 who may
  
 ? have contacts/experience.
 ? 
 ? Steve
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
 ? Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
 ? wrote:
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? After doing some research, I think my best shot
 ? for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any
 body
  have
 ? a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
 ? Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers
 plenty
  of
  
 ? depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Thanks,
 ? Scott Waters
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
  
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
 ? 
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
 ? 
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 ? 
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  
  
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 12:47:40 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 11:47:40 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <trvwutie3kagmemba4sf2g44.1400949778618@email.android.com>

Hank,
Is there any special regulations if I were to tow my sub across the border? I am going to try to figure out how to make this work. I would feel alot more comfortable putting the sub on a winch off a barge to depth test.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Scott,
I live in Windermere BC, 5hr from Slocan lake.? Google Slocan lake BC and you can see the awsome lake and it is crystal clear. 
Hank? -------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:24 PM

Hank,That
is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do you
live in Canada?Thanks,Scott
Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Scott,
You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes to
have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing these
deep tests and have returned home empty handed.?
Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.? Just bring it up
to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off
shore.? I will help you.
We can use my barge.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
? 
? Jim, I am
? thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet and
drive
? to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the boat
? ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4 mph,
? but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like the
? ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very rought
? several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class boat
? with a crane they would loan me?
? Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
? "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? Hi Scott,
? Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
? miles!
? Best Regards,
? Jim K
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
? Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
? 
? Pete Niedermayr via
? Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Scott, Do you rent backhoes
? ?--------------------------------------------
? 
? On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
? 
? Holy
? cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan B.
Why
? can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
? Haha-Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent from my U.S.
? Cellular? Smartphone 
? 
? "kocpnt tds.net via
? Personal_Submersibles"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Hi Scott,
? I'm about ?18 miles inland at
? Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as a
well
? equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also!
Just
? had
? it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
? exceptional
? 
? ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is
about
? 21
? miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
? 
? Best Regards,
? 
? Jim
? K(920) 323-9200
? 
? On Fri,
? May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net
<kocpnt at tds.net>
? 
? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via
Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? 
? Thanks
? Chris,
? Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
? avoid having to go out to the center. I might be
better
? going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for
me. I
? think I would be a little more protected from the
? 
? elements
? 
? 
? ?
? Thanks,
? Scott Waters?
? ?
? 
? -------- Original Message --------
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? From: Christopher Graca via
? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? 
? Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
? To:
? Personal Submersibles General Discussion
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? 
? 
? Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
? to see where you can test it to 450'
? 
? 
? http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
? 
? 
? 
? 
? I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
? contacts. I can help with support if needed.
? 
? 
? -Chris
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014
? at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me know.?
I am
? close enough I could be support or whatever. You
should
? hear
? back from others as we do have member in that area
who may
? 
? have contacts/experience.
? 
? Steve
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
? Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? wrote:
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? After doing some research, I think my best shot
? for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any
body
? have
? a contact in that area for help with this test? Lake
? Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers
plenty
? of
? 
? depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
? 
? 
? Thanks,
? Scott Waters
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? 
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? 
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 13:29:32 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 10:29:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <trvwutie3kagmemba4sf2g44.1400949778618@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400952572.60582.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
I should also be able to follow with Gamma to 500 if that is what your shooting for.  I will have the barge out there permanently this summer.  I am working out there a lot now so I am making contacts.  I brought Gamma across the border with no trouble.  Canada is much easier on us than the US.  If you like you can go cross country to Montana then cross at Eureka.  I was there yesterday to pick up my AGM's and the Canada border guy said 'hey your the submarine guy" lol  I can meet you there and we can head to Slocan from there. If you have any trouble at the border, I will be there to help.  You really just need proof it is your sub.  You can pick Vance up on the way, :-)  You can head to Nuyco from there and see the all the wonderful DW's Maybe you can sell a store and go home with a DW, :-)
Canada is a very safe place to travel with your trailer, we are not as anal.  Just cover the sub with a good tarp and your set.  
I would be available any time in August.  I am booked for work after that.  
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:47 PM
 
 Hank,Is
 there any special regulations if I were to tow my sub across
 the border? I am going to try to figure out how to make this
 work. I would feel alot more comfortable putting the sub on
 a winch off a barge to depth
 test.Thanks,Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 Scott,
 I live in Windermere BC, 5hr from Slocan lake.? Google
 Slocan lake BC and you can see the awsome lake and it is
 crystal clear. 
 Hank? -------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:24 PM
  
  Hank,That
  is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do you
  live in Canada?Thanks,Scott
  Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
  hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  Scott,
  You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes
 to
  have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing
 these
  deep tests and have returned home empty handed.?
  Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.? Just bring it
 up
  to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off
  shore.? I will help you.
  We can use my barge.
  Hank--------------------------------------------
  On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
 ? 
 ? Jim, I am
 ? thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet
 and
  drive
 ? to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the
 boat
 ? ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4
 mph,
 ? but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like
 the
 ? ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very
 rought
 ? several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class
 boat
 ? with a crane they would loan me?
 ? Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent
 ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 ? "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 ? Hi Scott,
 ? Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
 ? miles!
 ? Best Regards,
 ? Jim K
 ? 
 ? 
 ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
 ? Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
 ? Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent
 ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
  ? 
 ? Pete Niedermayr via
 ? Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
 ? Scott, Do you rent backhoes
 ? ?--------------------------------------------
 ? 
 ? On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
  ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
  Discussion"
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
  ? Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
  ? 
  ? Holy
  ? cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan
 B.
  Why
  ? can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
  ? Haha-Scott Waters
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Sent from my U.S.
  ? Cellular? Smartphone 
 ? 
  ? "kocpnt tds.net via
  ? Personal_Submersibles"
  ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
  ? Hi Scott,
  ? I'm about ?18 miles inland at
  ? Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as
 a
  well
  ? equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also!
  Just
 ? had
  ? it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
 ? exceptional
 ? 
  ? ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is
  about
 ? 21
  ? miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
  ? 
  ? Best Regards,
  ? 
  ? Jim
  ? K(920) 323-9200
  ? 
  ? On Fri,
  ? May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net
  <kocpnt at tds.net>
 ? 
  ? wrote:
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via
  Personal_Submersibles
  ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? wrote:
 ? 
  ? 
  ? Thanks
  ? Chris,
  ? Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
  ? avoid having to go out to the center. I might be
  better
  ? going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for
  me. I
  ? think I would be a little more protected from the
 ? 
  ? elements
  ? 
  ? 
  ? ?
  ? Thanks,
  ? Scott Waters?
  ? ?
  ? 
  ? -------- Original Message --------
  ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  ? From: Christopher Graca via
  ? Personal_Submersibles
  ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
  ? To:
  ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion
  ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? 
  ? 
 ? 
  ? Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
  ? to see where you can test it to 450'
  ? 
  ? 
  ?
 http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
 ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
  ? contacts. I can help with support if needed.
  ? 
  ? 
  ? -Chris
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? On Fri, May 23, 2014
  ? at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via
 Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
  ? wrote:
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me
 know.?
  I am
  ? close enough I could be support or whatever. You
  should
 ? hear
  ? back from others as we do have member in that area
  who may
 ? 
  ? have contacts/experience.
  ? 
  ? Steve
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
  ? Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? 
  ? wrote:
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? After doing some research, I think my best shot
  ? for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any
  body
 ? have
  ? a contact in that area for help with this test?
 Lake
  ? Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers
  plenty
 ? of
 ? 
  ? depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Thanks,
  ? Scott Waters
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
 ? 
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ? 
  ? 
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
  ? 
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? 
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
  ? 
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ? 
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? 
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? 
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
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 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
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 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 13:34:49 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 13:34:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <1400952572.60582.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1400952572.60582.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D1458D9846A4B8-83C-151AC@webmail-m235.sysops.aol.com>

Sounds good.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, May 24, 2014 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test


Scott,
I should also be able to follow with Gamma to 500 if that is what your shooting 
for.  I will have the barge out there permanently this summer.  I am working out 
there a lot now so I am making contacts.  I brought Gamma across the border with 
no trouble.  Canada is much easier on us than the US.  If you like you can go 
cross country to Montana then cross at Eureka.  I was there yesterday to pick up 
my AGM's and the Canada border guy said 'hey your the submarine guy" lol  I can 
meet you there and we can head to Slocan from there. If you have any trouble at 
the border, I will be there to help.  You really just need proof it is your sub.  
You can pick Vance up on the way, :-)  You can head to Nuyco from there and see 
the all the wonderful DW's Maybe you can sell a store and go home with a DW, :-)
Canada is a very safe place to travel with your trailer, we are not as anal.  
Just cover the sub with a good tarp and your set.  
I would be available any time in August.  I am booked for work after that.  
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:47 PM
 
 Hank,Is
 there any special regulations if I were to tow my sub across
 the border? I am going to try to figure out how to make this
 work. I would feel alot more comfortable putting the sub on
 a winch off a barge to depth
 test.Thanks,Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
 Scott,
 I live in Windermere BC, 5hr from Slocan lake.  Google
 Slocan lake BC and you can see the awsome lake and it is
 crystal clear. 
 Hank  -------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:24 PM
  
  Hank,That
  is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do you
  live in Canada?Thanks,Scott
  Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
  hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  Scott,
  You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes
 to
  have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing
 these
  deep tests and have returned home empty handed. 
  Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.  Just bring it
 up
  to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off
  shore.  I will help you.
  We can use my barge.
  Hank--------------------------------------------
  On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
   To: "Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
   
   Jim, I am
   thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet
 and
  drive
   to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the
 boat
   ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4
 mph,
   but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like
 the
   ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very
 rought
   several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class
 boat
   with a crane they would loan me?
   Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
   
   
   
   Sent
   from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
   "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
   Hi Scott,
   Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
   miles!
   Best Regards,
   Jim K
   
   
   On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
   Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   wrote:
   
   Yes. Thanks,Scott Waters
   
   
   
   Sent
   from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
    
   Pete Niedermayr via
   Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   wrote:
   
   Scott, Do you rent backhoes
   ?--------------------------------------------
   
   On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   wrote:
   
    Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
    To: "Personal Submersibles General
  Discussion"
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   
    Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
    
    Holy
    cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan
 B.
  Why
    can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
    Haha-Scott Waters
    
    
    
    Sent from my U.S.
    Cellular? Smartphone 
   
    "kocpnt tds.net via
    Personal_Submersibles"
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   wrote:
   
    Hi Scott,
    I'm about  18 miles inland at
    Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as
 a
  well
    equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also!
  Just
   had
    it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
   exceptional
   
    ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is
  about
   21
    miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
    
    Best Regards,
    
    Jim
    K(920) 323-9200
    
    On Fri,
    May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net
  <kocpnt at tds.net>
   
    wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
    On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via
  Personal_Submersibles
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    wrote:
   
    
    Thanks
    Chris,
    Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
    avoid having to go out to the center. I might be
  better
    going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for
  me. I
    think I would be a little more protected from the
   
    elements
    
    
     
    Thanks,
    Scott Waters 
     
    
    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
    From: Christopher Graca via
    Personal_Submersibles
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   
    
    
    Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
    To:
    Personal Submersibles General Discussion
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    
    
   
    Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
    to see where you can test it to 450'
    
    
   
 http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
   
    
    
    
    I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
    contacts. I can help with support if needed.
    
    
    -Chris
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    On Fri, May 23, 2014
    at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via
 Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   
    wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
    Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me
 know. 
  I am
    close enough I could be support or whatever. You
  should
   hear
    back from others as we do have member in that area
  who may
   
    have contacts/experience.
    
    Steve
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
    Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   
    wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
    After doing some research, I think my best shot
    for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any
  body
   have
    a contact in that area for help with this test?
 Lake
    Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers
  plenty
   of
   
    depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
    
    
    Thanks,
    Scott Waters
    
    _______________________________________________
    Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
   
   
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
    
    
    
    
    
    _______________________________________________
   
    Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    
    
   
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
   
    
    
    
    
    _______________________________________________
    Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
   
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
   
    
    
    
    
    _______________________________________________
    
    Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    
    Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
   
    
   
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
   
    
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 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
   
   
   
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   Personal_Submersibles mailing list
   
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 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
   
   
   
   
   
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 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 15:09:42 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 14:09:42 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <m1u77pcpukqpghij2ax66oxi.1400958421745@email.android.com>

Very cool! Following Trustworthy down would be awesome. I was wanting to test to 450'. I think I can make August work!?
What I need to do is figure out how to make a deep worker a business expense. Anyone know any commercial diving companies for sale out there? Haha
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott,
I should also be able to follow with Gamma to 500 if that is what your shooting for.? I will have the barge out there permanently this summer.? I am working out there a lot now so I am making contacts.? I brought Gamma across the border with no trouble.? Canada is much easier on us than the US.? If you like you can go cross country to Montana then cross at Eureka.? I was there yesterday to pick up my AGM's and the Canada border guy said 'hey your the submarine guy" lol? I can meet you there and we can head to Slocan from there. If you have any trouble at the border, I will be there to help.? You really just need proof it is your sub.? You can pick Vance up on the way, :-)? You can head to Nuyco from there and see the all the wonderful DW's Maybe you can sell a store and go home with a DW, :-)
Canada is a very safe place to travel with your trailer, we are not as anal.? Just cover the sub with a good tarp and your set.? 
I would be available any time in August.? I am booked for work after that.? 
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:47 PM

Hank,Is
there any special regulations if I were to tow my sub across
the border? I am going to try to figure out how to make this
work. I would feel alot more comfortable putting the sub on
a winch off a barge to depth
test.Thanks,Scott Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Scott,
I live in Windermere BC, 5hr from Slocan lake.? Google
Slocan lake BC and you can see the awsome lake and it is
crystal clear. 
Hank? -------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:24 PM
? 
? Hank,That
? is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do you
? live in Canada?Thanks,Scott
? Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? 
? Scott,
? You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes
to
? have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing
these
? deep tests and have returned home empty handed.?
? Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.? Just bring it
up
? to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off
? shore.? I will help you.
? We can use my barge.
? Hank--------------------------------------------
? On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
? 
? Jim, I am
? thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet
and
? drive
? to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the
boat
? ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4
mph,
? but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like
the
? ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very
rought
? several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class
boat
? with a crane they would loan me?
? Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
? "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? Hi Scott,
? Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
? miles!
? Best Regards,
? Jim K
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
? ? 
? Pete Niedermayr via
? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Scott, Do you rent backhoes
? ?--------------------------------------------
? 
? On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
? Discussion"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
? ? 
? ? Holy
? ? cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan
B.
? Why
? ? can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
? ? Haha-Scott Waters
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Sent from my U.S.
? ? Cellular? Smartphone 
? 
? ? "kocpnt tds.net via
? ? Personal_Submersibles"
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? ? Hi Scott,
? ? I'm about ?18 miles inland at
? ? Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as
a
? well
? ? equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also!
? Just
? had
? ? it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
? exceptional
? 
? ? ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is
? about
? 21
? ? miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
? ? 
? ? Best Regards,
? ? 
? ? Jim
? ? K(920) 323-9200
? ? 
? ? On Fri,
? ? May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net
? <kocpnt at tds.net>
? 
? ? wrote:
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via
? Personal_Submersibles
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? ? wrote:
? 
? ? 
? ? Thanks
? ? Chris,
? ? Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
? ? avoid having to go out to the center. I might be
? better
? ? going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for
? me. I
? ? think I would be a little more protected from the
? 
? ? elements
? ? 
? ? 
? ? ?
? ? Thanks,
? ? Scott Waters?
? ? ?
? ? 
? ? -------- Original Message --------
? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? ? From: Christopher Graca via
? ? Personal_Submersibles
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
? ? To:
? ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? ? 
? ? 
? 
? ? Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
? ? to see where you can test it to 450'
? ? 
? ? 
? ?
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
? ? contacts. I can help with support if needed.
? ? 
? ? 
? ? -Chris
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014
? ? at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via
Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? wrote:
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me
know.?
? I am
? ? close enough I could be support or whatever. You
? should
? hear
? ? back from others as we do have member in that area
? who may
? 
? ? have contacts/experience.
? ? 
? ? Steve
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
? ? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? wrote:
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? After doing some research, I think my best shot
? ? for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any
? body
? have
? ? a contact in that area for help with this test?
Lake
? ? Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers
? plenty
? of
? 
? ? depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Thanks,
? ? Scott Waters
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? 
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? ? 
? ? 
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? 
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? 
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? ? 
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 15:17:17 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 14:17:17 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
Message-ID: <f23anulqgmsbwmmqi3b6v6m6.1400958992198@email.android.com>

Hank,
Just wondering, what is the depth rating of Gamma? How many people does it hold?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Scott,
I should also be able to follow with Gamma to 500 if that is what your shooting for.? I will have the barge out there permanently this summer.? I am working out there a lot now so I am making contacts.? I brought Gamma across the border with no trouble.? Canada is much easier on us than the US.? If you like you can go cross country to Montana then cross at Eureka.? I was there yesterday to pick up my AGM's and the Canada border guy said 'hey your the submarine guy" lol? I can meet you there and we can head to Slocan from there. If you have any trouble at the border, I will be there to help.? You really just need proof it is your sub.? You can pick Vance up on the way, :-)? You can head to Nuyco from there and see the all the wonderful DW's Maybe you can sell a store and go home with a DW, :-)
Canada is a very safe place to travel with your trailer, we are not as anal.? Just cover the sub with a good tarp and your set.? 
I would be available any time in August.? I am booked for work after that.? 
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:47 PM

Hank,Is
there any special regulations if I were to tow my sub across
the border? I am going to try to figure out how to make this
work. I would feel alot more comfortable putting the sub on
a winch off a barge to depth
test.Thanks,Scott Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Scott,
I live in Windermere BC, 5hr from Slocan lake.? Google
Slocan lake BC and you can see the awsome lake and it is
crystal clear. 
Hank? -------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:24 PM
? 
? Hank,That
? is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do you
? live in Canada?Thanks,Scott
? Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? 
? Scott,
? You would be well advised to drive how ever far it takes
to
? have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience doing
these
? deep tests and have returned home empty handed.?
? Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.? Just bring it
up
? to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards off
? shore.? I will help you.
? We can use my barge.
? Hank--------------------------------------------
? On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? To: "Personal Submersibles General
Discussion"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
? 
? Jim, I am
? thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet
and
? drive
? to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off the
boat
? ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is 4
mph,
? but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy like
the
? ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very
rought
? several hour tow. Unless someone has a working class
boat
? with a crane they would loan me?
? Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
? "kocpnt tds.net via Personal_Submersibles"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
? Hi Scott,
? Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
? miles!
? Best Regards,
? Jim K
? 
? 
? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
? ? 
? Pete Niedermayr via
? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Scott, Do you rent backhoes
? ?--------------------------------------------
? 
? On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
? Discussion"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
? ? 
? ? Holy
? ? cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a plan
B.
? Why
? ? can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
? ? Haha-Scott Waters
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Sent from my U.S.
? ? Cellular? Smartphone 
? 
? ? "kocpnt tds.net via
? ? Personal_Submersibles"
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? ? Hi Scott,
? ? I'm about ?18 miles inland at
? ? Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as well as
a
? well
? ? equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon also!
? Just
? had
? ? it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has an
? exceptional
? 
? ? ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that it is
? about
? 21
? ? miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
? ? 
? ? Best Regards,
? ? 
? ? Jim
? ? K(920) 323-9200
? ? 
? ? On Fri,
? ? May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net
? <kocpnt at tds.net>
? 
? ? wrote:
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via
? Personal_Submersibles
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? ? wrote:
? 
? ? 
? ? Thanks
? ? Chris,
? ? Looks like I would have to go to the upper lake to
? ? avoid having to go out to the center. I might be
? better
? ? going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour drive for
? me. I
? ? think I would be a little more protected from the
? 
? ? elements
? ? 
? ? 
? ? ?
? ? Thanks,
? ? Scott Waters?
? ? ?
? ? 
? ? -------- Original Message --------
? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
? ? From: Christopher Graca via
? ? Personal_Submersibles
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
? ? To:
? ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion
? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? ? 
? ? 
? 
? ? Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
? ? to see where you can test it to 450'
? ? 
? ? 
? ?
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? I'm in the Chicago area, but don't have any
? ? contacts. I can help with support if needed.
? ? 
? ? 
? ? -Chris
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014
? ? at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via
Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? wrote:
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me
know.?
? I am
? ? close enough I could be support or whatever. You
? should
? hear
? ? back from others as we do have member in that area
? who may
? 
? ? have contacts/experience.
? ? 
? ? Steve
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
? ? Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? 
? ? wrote:
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? After doing some research, I think my best shot
? ? for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan. Any
? body
? have
? ? a contact in that area for help with this test?
Lake
? ? Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and offers
? plenty
? of
? 
? ? depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Thanks,
? ? Scott Waters
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? 
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? ? 
? ? 
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? 
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? 
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
? ? 
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? ?
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? ? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? 
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? 
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? 
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 16:47:34 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 13:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
In-Reply-To: <m1u77pcpukqpghij2ax66oxi.1400958421745@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1400964454.13657.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Scott, 
Gamma is rated for 1,000 feet.  I can only deep test it to 1,000 feet for now, so I will only dive it to 500 until I get up to Adams Lake to do 1,500 feet.  Adams lake is 5hr from my house.  Gamma is a two man sub, but I am over weight with my new batteries by 104lbs so some work is needed before I can take a passenger.
There are video's on YouTube about diving in Slocan Lake, check them out and see how good the visibility is.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 3:09 PM
 
 Very cool!
 Following Trustworthy down would be awesome. I was wanting
 to test to 450'. I think I can make August
 work!?What I need to do is figure out how to
 make a deep worker a business expense. Anyone know any
 commercial diving companies for sale out there?
 HahaThanks,Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Scott,
 I should also be able to follow with Gamma to 500 if that is
 what your shooting for.? I will have the barge out
 there permanently this summer.? I am working out there
 a lot now so I am making contacts.? I brought Gamma
 across the border with no trouble.? Canada is much
 easier on us than the US.? If you like you can go cross
 country to Montana then cross at Eureka.? I was there
 yesterday to pick up my AGM's and the Canada border guy
 said 'hey your the submarine guy" lol? I can
 meet you there and we can head to Slocan from there. If you
 have any trouble at the border, I will be there to
 help.? You really just need proof it is your sub.?
 You can pick Vance up on the way, :-)? You can head to
 Nuyco from there and see the all the wonderful DW's
 Maybe you can sell a store and go home with a DW, :-)
 Canada is a very safe place to travel with your trailer, we
 are not as anal.? Just cover the sub with a good tarp
 and your set.? 
 I would be available any time in August.? I am booked
 for work after that.? 
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:47 PM
  
  Hank,Is
  there any special regulations if I were to tow my sub
 across
  the border? I am going to try to figure out how to make
 this
  work. I would feel alot more comfortable putting the sub
 on
  a winch off a barge to depth
  test.Thanks,Scott Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
  hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
  Scott,
  I live in Windermere BC, 5hr from Slocan lake.?
 Google
  Slocan lake BC and you can see the awsome lake and it is
  crystal clear. 
  Hank? -------------------------------------------
  On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 12:24 PM
 ? 
 ? Hank,That
 ? is an extremely generious offer! Thanks you. Where do
 you
 ? live in Canada?Thanks,Scott
 ? Waters
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent
 ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 ? hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 ? 
 ? Scott,
 ? You would be well advised to drive how ever far it
 takes
  to
 ? have ideal conditions. I have lots of experience
 doing
  these
 ? deep tests and have returned home empty
 handed.?
 ? Believe me, it can go bad in a hurry.? Just
 bring it
  up
 ? to Canada, Slocan lake is 970 feet deep 500 yards
 off
 ? shore.? I will help you.
 ? We can use my barge.
 ? Hank--------------------------------------------
 ? On Sat, 5/24/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 ? 
  ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
  ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
  Discussion"
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? Received: Saturday, May 24, 2014, 10:09 AM
  ? 
  ? Jim, I am
  ? thinking maybe what I should do is bite the bullet
  and
 ? drive
  ? to lake Seneca, NY. Being able to test right off
 the
  boat
  ? ramp is pretty desireable. The fastest I can tow is
 4
  mph,
  ? but that is in calm circumstances. If it is wavy
 like
  the
  ? ocean, or great lakes can be, that would be very
  rought
  ? several hour tow. Unless someone has a working
 class
  boat
  ? with a crane they would loan me?
  ? Hehe.Thanks,Scott Waters
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Sent
  ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
  ? "kocpnt tds.net via
 Personal_Submersibles"
  ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  ? Hi Scott,
  ? Out of Kewaunee you can get 450 feet in about 11
  ? miles!
  ? Best Regards,
  ? Jim K
  ? 
  ? 
  ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 8:40 PM, swaters via
  ? Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? wrote:
  ? 
  ? Yes.?Thanks,Scott Waters
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Sent
  ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 ? ? 
  ? Pete Niedermayr via
  ? Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? wrote:
  ? 
  ? Scott, Do you rent backhoes
  ? ?--------------------------------------------
  ? 
  ? On Fri, 5/23/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? wrote:
  ? 
 ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 ? ? To: "Personal Submersibles General
 ? Discussion"
  ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? 
 ? ? Date: Friday, May 23, 2014, 1:12 PM
 ? ? 
 ? ? Holy
 ? ? cow! 21 miles of towing? Might have to find a
 plan
  B.
 ? Why
 ? ? can't Kansas have a deep clear lake?
 ? ? Haha-Scott Waters
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? Sent from my U.S.
 ? ? Cellular? Smartphone 
  ? 
 ? ? "kocpnt tds.net via
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles"
 ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? wrote:
  ? 
 ? ? Hi Scott,
 ? ? I'm about ?18 miles inland at
 ? ? Manitowoc and can offer a place to stay as
 well as
  a
 ? well
 ? ? equiped shop. I am planning to test mine soon
 also!
 ? Just
  ? had
 ? ? it out last weekend for a bit. Manitowoc has
 an
  ? exceptional
  ? 
 ? ? ramp for launching etc. The bad news is that
 it is
 ? about
  ? 21
 ? ? miles out to get to 450 feet of depth.
 ? ? 
 ? ? Best Regards,
 ? ? 
 ? ? Jim
 ? ? K(920) 323-9200
 ? ? 
 ? ? On Fri,
 ? ? May 23, 2014 at 2:27 PM, kocpnt tds.net
 ? <kocpnt at tds.net>
  ? 
 ? ? wrote:
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM, via
 ? Personal_Submersibles
 ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? ? wrote:
  ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? Thanks
 ? ? Chris,
 ? ? Looks like I would have to go to the upper
 lake to
 ? ? avoid having to go out to the center. I might
 be
 ? better
 ? ? going Fremont Lake, WY. That is a 12 hour
 drive for
 ? me. I
 ? ? think I would be a little more protected from
 the
  ? 
 ? ? elements
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? ?
 ? ? Thanks,
 ? ? Scott Waters?
 ? ? ?
 ? ? 
 ? ? -------- Original Message --------
 ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Depth Test
 ? ? From: Christopher Graca via
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles
 ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 11:05 am
 ? ? To:
 ? ? Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 ? ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
  ? 
 ? ? Scott, check out the bathymetry of the lake
 ? ? to see where you can test it to 450'
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ?
  http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/michiganlarge.jpg
  ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? I'm in the Chicago area, but don't
 have any
 ? ? contacts. I can help with support if needed.
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? -Chris
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014
 ? ? at 12:45 PM, Steve McQueen via
  Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? 
 ? ? wrote:
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? Scott, If you go to Lake Michigan let me
  know.?
 ? I am
 ? ? close enough I could be support or whatever.
 You
 ? should
  ? hear
 ? ? back from others as we do have member in that
 area
 ? who may
  ? 
 ? ? have contacts/experience.
 ? ? 
 ? ? Steve
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:54 PM, via
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles
 ? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  ? 
 ? ? wrote:
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? After doing some research, I think my best
 shot
 ? ? for a depth test to 450' is lake Michigan.
 Any
 ? body
  ? have
 ? ? a contact in that area for help with this
 test?
  Lake
 ? ? Michigan is about 10 hours away for me and
 offers
 ? plenty
  ? of
  ? 
 ? ? depth, unless someone has another suggestion?
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? Thanks,
 ? ? Scott Waters
 ? ? 
 ? ?
 _______________________________________________
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ? 
 ? ?
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ?
 _______________________________________________
  ? 
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ?
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ?
 _______________________________________________
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? ?
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ?
 _______________________________________________
 ? ? 
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? ? 
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ?
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  ? 
 ? ? 
 ? ?
 _______________________________________________
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? ?
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? ? 
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
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  ? 
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? 
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ? 
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  ? 
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  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ?
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
 ? 
 ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
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 ? 
  
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  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
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 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 24 19:35:29 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 16:35:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 150a fuses
Message-ID: <1400974529.58453.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Today I installed my agm batteries and I made an improvement.  I relocated the two 150 amp fuses so they are on the batteries.  Originally  the battery cables travelled through a steel conduit then connected to the fuses.  I didn't like that because the battery cables could short out ahead of the fuses.  Seems to me this is a better arrangement.
Hank

From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 01:06:09 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 01:06:09 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
Message-ID: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>


PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for 
August 21-24, 2014.

A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington area 
including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research.  The 
current schedule of events includes:
1) Meet & Greet, August 21
2) Submarine Diving, August 22
3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23

Jim Todd is the Planning & Program Chairman for this event, and he will 
be providing more detailed information later.  In order to secure the 
best possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of rooms to 
reserve, please register for the event as soon as possible at 
http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.  We will announce the name of the 
official headquarters hotel soon, and of course you are free to choose 
another hotel accommodation if you prefer.  Several of the hotel 
websites are already indicating "No rooms available," so the sooner you 
can respond, the better.
IMPORTANT!!: _To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every 
person no matter what age must present a valid passport_. If you do not 
have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you apply for or 
renew your passport ASAP.  More on this later.
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from 
Bellingham.  Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1 hour 
from Bellingham.  If your departure point is within the Unites States, 
flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper.
Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago.  Dr. 
Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to accommodate 
greater manufacturing activities.  There are presently a number of subs 
under construction.  See http://nuytco.com/



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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 01:13:13 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 00:13:13 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
Message-ID: <dfoah4el9mk1qao2jatqqa1s.1400994760989@email.android.com>

Katy and I will attend. I think we will be bringing trustworthy too!
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneJon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for August 21-24, 2014.

A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington area including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research.? The current schedule of events includes:
1) Meet & Greet, August 21
2) Submarine Diving, August 22
3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23

Jim Todd is the Planning?& Program Chairman for this event, and he will be providing more detailed information later.? In order to secure the best possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of rooms to reserve, please register for the event as soon as possible at http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.? We will announce the name of the official headquarters hotel soon, and of               course you are free to choose another hotel accommodation?if you prefer.? Several of the hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms available,"?so the sooner you can respond, the better.
?
IMPORTANT!!:? To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every person no matter what age must present a valid passport.? If you do not have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you apply for or renew your passport ASAP.? More on this later.
?
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from Bellingham.? Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1 hour from Bellingham.? If your departure point is within the Unites States, flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper.
?
Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago.? Dr. Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to accommodate greater manufacturing activities.? There are presently a number of subs under construction.? See http://nuytco.com/



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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 01:30:10 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 01:30:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
Message-ID: <ca52e.354fd518.40b2d9e2@aol.com>

That's great to hear, Scott.  Hank and Gamma will be there also.   I'll 
post a list of the attending subs as they commit.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/25/2014 12:13:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Katy and I will attend. I think we will be bringing trustworthy  too!
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my U.S. Cellular?  Smartphone


Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
wrote:

PSUBS announces the West  Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for 
August 21-24, 2014.

A late  summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington area 
including a  trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research.  The current 
 schedule of events includes:
1) Meet & Greet, August 21
2) Submarine  Diving, August 22
3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23

Jim Todd is the Planning & Program  Chairman for this event, and he will be 
providing more detailed information  later.  In order to secure the best 
possible hotel discount and to know  how large a block of rooms to reserve, 
please register for the event as soon  as possible at 
http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.   We will announce the name of the official headquarters hotel 
soon, and of  course you are free to choose another hotel accommodation if 
you  prefer.  Several of the hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms 
 available," so the sooner you can respond, the better.
 
IMPORTANT!!:  To cross the border into  Canada for the Nuytco tour, every 
person no matter what age must present a  valid passport.  If you do not have 
an up-to-date passport I would  strongly suggest you apply for or renew 
your passport ASAP.  More on this  later.
 
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40  minutes from Bellingham. 
 Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or  about 1 hour from 
Bellingham.  If your departure point is within the  Unites States, flying into 
Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat  cheaper.
 
Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention  several years ago.  Dr. 
Phil has expanded the facility substantially  since then to accommodate 
greater manufacturing activities.  There are  presently a number of subs under 
construction.  See http://nuytco.com/






_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 01:45:37 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 23:45:37 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
In-Reply-To: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
References: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <53818381.2000706@telus.net>

There is an international airport in Bellingham.  I have previously
driven down from Vancouver to take advantage of cheaper flights than
were available out of YVR, so you might look into that.

I'm waiting on confirmed availability, but I'll register as soon as I know.

Sean


On 2014-05-24 23:06, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for
> August 21-24, 2014.
>
> A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington
> area including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research. 
> The current schedule of events includes:
> 1) Meet & Greet, August 21
> 2) Submarine Diving, August 22
> 3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23
>
> Jim Todd is the Planning & Program Chairman for this event, and he
> will be providing more detailed information later.  In order to secure
> the best possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of
> rooms to reserve, please register for the event as soon as possible at
> http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.  We will announce the name of
> the official headquarters hotel soon, and of course you are free to
> choose another hotel accommodation if you prefer.  Several of the
> hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms available," so the
> sooner you can respond, the better.
>  
> IMPORTANT!!:  _To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour,
> every person no matter what age must present a valid passport_.  If
> you do not have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you
> apply for or renew your passport ASAP.  More on this later.
>  
> Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from
> Bellingham.  Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1
> hour from Bellingham.  If your departure point is within the Unites
> States, flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper.
>  
> Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago. 
> Dr. Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to
> accommodate greater manufacturing activities.  There are presently a
> number of subs under construction.  See http://nuytco.com/

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 04:54:25 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 01:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
In-Reply-To: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
References: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <1401008065.8000.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

>>>>>IMPORTANT!!:??To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every person no matter what age must present a valid passport.


? ?No Jon the passport is so you can get back out again.
I am tempted to come over, but need to see how things unfold.
Alan

________________________________
 From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:06 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
 



PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for
    August 21-24, 2014.

A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington
    area including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco
    Research.? The current schedule of events includes:
1) Meet & Greet, August 21
2) Submarine Diving, August 22
3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23

Jim Todd is the Planning?& Program Chairman for this event, and he will be providing more detailed information later.? In order to secure the best possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of rooms to reserve, please register for the event as soon as possible at http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.? We will announce the name of the official headquarters hotel soon, and of course you are free to choose another hotel accommodation?if you prefer.? Several of the hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms available,"?so the sooner you can respond, the better.
?
IMPORTANT!!:? To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every person no matter what age must present a valid passport.? If you do not have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you apply for or renew your passport ASAP.? More on this later.
?
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from Bellingham.? Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1 hour from Bellingham.? If your departure point is within the Unites States, flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper.
?
Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago.? Dr. Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to accommodate greater manufacturing activities.? There are presently a number of subs under construction.? See http://nuytco.com/




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 08:28:18 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 08:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
Message-ID: <49d00.5680b7b2.40b33bea@aol.com>

Alan, you'd better show up.  We put it there so you wouldn't have  quite so 
far to come.  The opportunity to examine a DW and other  goodies at Nuytco 
is worth the trip by itself.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/25/2014 3:54:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

 
>>>>>IMPORTANT!!:  To cross the border into Canada  for the Nuytco tour, 
every person no matter what age must present a valid  passport.


No Jon the passport is so you can get back out again.
I  am tempted to come over, but need to see how things unfold.
Alan
 
 
  
____________________________________
 From:  Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles  
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:06  PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]  PSUBS West Coast Sessions




PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for  
August 21-24, 2014.

A late summer event is being planned for the  Bellingham Washington area 
including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour  Nuytco Research.  The current 
schedule of events includes:
1) Meet  & Greet, August 21
2) Submarine Diving, August 22
3) Nuytco Research  Tour, August 23

Jim Todd is the Planning & Program  Chairman for this event, and he will be 
providing more detailed information  later.  In order to secure the best 
possible hotel discount and to know  how large a block of rooms to reserve, 
please register for the event as soon  as possible at 
http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.  We will announce  the name of the official headquarters hotel 
soon, and of course you are free  to choose another hotel accommodation if 
you prefer.  Several of the  hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms 
available," so the sooner  you can respond, the better.
 
IMPORTANT!!:  To cross the border into  Canada for the Nuytco tour, every 
person no matter what age must present a  valid passport.  If you do not have 
an up-to-date passport I would  strongly suggest you apply for or renew 
your passport ASAP.  More on this  later.
 
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40  minutes from Bellingham. 
 Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or  about 1 hour from 
Bellingham.  If your departure point is within the  Unites States, flying into 
Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat  cheaper.
 
Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention  several years ago.  Dr. 
Phil has expanded the facility substantially  since then to accommodate 
greater manufacturing activities.  There are  presently a number of subs under 
construction.  See http://nuytco.com/







_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles








_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 08:52:08 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 08:52:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
Message-ID: <4a22a.249451e8.40b34180@aol.com>

Good point, Sean.
 
The _Bellingham  International Airport_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingham_International_Airport)  offers regularly scheduled commuter flights to 
and  from _Seattle_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle)   and _Friday 
Harbor,  Washington_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_Harbor,_Washington) 
, and regularly scheduled jet service to Los Angeles, San Diego,  _Oakland_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California) , and _Palm Springs,  
California_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Springs,_California) ; _Las 
Vegas, Nevada_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas,_Nevada) ; _Reno,  
Nevada_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno,_Nevada) , and _Phoenix_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix,_Arizona) /_Mesa,  Arizona_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa,_Arizona) . In 2010 Alaska airlines began regularly scheduled 
direct flights to  Hawaii. _Amtrak Cascades_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Cascades)  provides  Bellingham with regularly scheduled passenger rail 
service to _Seattle_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle) , _Portland, 
Oregon_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland,_Oregon)  and to  _Vancouver_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver) ,  BC. 
It's not mentioned above, but they also have some direct flights  from 
Denver, CO, on Frontier Airlines.  Alaska Air provides the commuter  service 
from Seattle. 
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/25/2014 12:46:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

There is an international airport in  Bellingham.  I have previously driven 
down from Vancouver to take  advantage of cheaper flights than were 
available out of YVR, so you might look  into that.

I'm waiting on confirmed availability, but I'll register as  soon as I know.

Sean


On 2014-05-24 23:06, Jon Wallace via  Personal_Submersibles wrote:



PSUBS  announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for 
August 21-24,  2014.

A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham  Washington area 
including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco  Research.  The current 
schedule of events includes:
1) Meet &  Greet, August 21
2) Submarine Diving, August 22
3) Nuytco Research  Tour, August 23

Jim Todd is the Planning & Program  Chairman for this event, and he will be 
providing more detailed information  later.  In order to secure the best 
possible hotel discount and to know  how large a block of rooms to reserve, 
please register for the event as soon  as possible at 
http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.  We  will announce the name of the official headquarters hotel 
soon, and of  course you are free to choose another hotel accommodation if 
you  prefer.  Several of the hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms 
 available," so the sooner you can respond, the better.
 
IMPORTANT!!:  To cross the border into  Canada for the Nuytco tour, every 
person no matter what age must present a  valid passport.  If you do not have 
an up-to-date passport I would  strongly suggest you apply for or renew 
your passport ASAP.  More on  this later.
 
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour  40 minutes from Bellingham. 
 Vancouver International Airport is 50  miles or about 1 hour from 
Bellingham.  If your departure point is  within the Unites States, flying into 
Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be  somewhat cheaper.
 
Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention  several years ago.  Dr. 
Phil has expanded the facility substantially  since then to accommodate 
greater manufacturing activities.  There are  presently a number of subs under 
construction.  See http://nuytco.com/





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 16:36:31 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 13:36:31 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
Message-ID: <20140525133631.446241D7@m0048137.ppops.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 19:12:09 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 16:12:09 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
In-Reply-To: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
References: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <CAHHFyEGWxZO55MH2Nssf_CHkF2Tv4ik=vk5CaZZXSwBWKvPWjA@mail.gmail.com>

Wyvonne and I will be attending. Not sure about SeaQuestor yet.

Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com



On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 10:06 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for
> August 21-24, 2014.
>
> A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington area
> including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research.  The
> current schedule of events includes:
> 1) Meet & Greet, August 21
> 2) Submarine Diving, August 22
> 3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23
>
>  Jim Todd is the Planning & Program Chairman for this event, and he will
> be providing more detailed information later.  In order to secure the best
> possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of rooms to reserve,
> please register for the event as soon as possible at
> http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.  We will announce the name of the
> official headquarters hotel soon, and of course you are free to choose
> another hotel accommodation if you prefer.  Several of the hotel websites
> are already indicating "No rooms available," so the sooner you can respond,
> the better.
>
> IMPORTANT!!:  *To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every
> person no matter what age must present a valid passport*.  If you do not
> have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you apply for or renew
> your passport ASAP.  More on this later.
>
> Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from
> Bellingham.  Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1 hour
> from Bellingham.  If your departure point is within the Unites States,
> flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper.
>
> Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago.  Dr.
> Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to accommodate
> greater manufacturing activities.  There are presently a number of subs
> under construction.  See http://nuytco.com/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 19:12:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 11:12:33 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
In-Reply-To: <49d00.5680b7b2.40b33bea@aol.com>
References: <49d00.5680b7b2.40b33bea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <EB330BEA-A831-4E33-86CD-4BF7B423E0DB@yahoo.com>

Jim, 
thanks for considering me in your plans.
Hawaii is almost directly in line too.
I hope you have informed Phil we are coming.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 26/05/2014, at 12:28 am, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan, you'd better show up.  We put it there so you wouldn't have quite so far to come.  The opportunity to examine a DW and other goodies at Nuytco is worth the trip by itself.
> Jim
>  
> In a message dated 5/25/2014 3:54:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
> >>>>>IMPORTANT!!:  To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every person no matter what age must present a valid passport.
> 
>    No Jon the passport is so you can get back out again.
> I am tempted to come over, but need to see how things unfold.
> Alan
> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:06 PM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
> 
> 
> PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for August 21-24, 2014.
> 
> A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington area including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research.  The current schedule of events includes:
> 1) Meet & Greet, August 21
> 2) Submarine Diving, August 22
> 3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23
> 
> Jim Todd is the Planning & Program Chairman for this event, and he will be providing more detailed information later.  In order to secure the best possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of rooms to reserve, please register for the event as soon as possible at http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.  We will announce the name of the official headquarters hotel soon, and of course you are free to choose another hotel accommodation if you prefer.  Several of the hotel websites are already indicating "No rooms available," so the sooner you can respond, the better.
>  
> IMPORTANT!!:  To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every person no matter what age must present a valid passport.  If you do not have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you apply for or renew your passport ASAP.  More on this later.
>  
> Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from Bellingham.  Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1 hour from Bellingham.  If your departure point is within the Unites States, flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper.
>  
> Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago.  Dr. Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to accommodate greater manufacturing activities.  There are presently a number of subs under construction.  See http://nuytco.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 06:23:19 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 11:23:19 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used the crane
again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification before i can
use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.

I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was
doing everything proper.

I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod
and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put 24kg of
lead on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in
160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear
tank.  Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside
out out.  Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.

Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to go to
the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.  Landed
on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up and down loads of times
and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.  Seem to have
got the weight about right.  Drove about just off the seabed and found it
was quite easy to spin around and control.  Drove around on the surface a
bit as well to test surface running.  Again this was ok using the rear
thruster.

Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on the
exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an airlock.
Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will probably make an oil
bladder.  No big deal.

Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled with
water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and plugged it
back in and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what was wrong there.

Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if
the boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that out.

Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not anodized.
Not sure how i can stop that.

I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but
although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and
formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the video
camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.

Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put them on
for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.

A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with one of
the divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the hatch and
could see she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit awkward.

Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr

All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small
pressurised cannisters later in the evening....

Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so after
ive sorted them all out.

Kind Regards
James
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 06:49:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 03:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <1401187773.52999.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi James,
CONGRATULATIONS.
Sounds like an awesome day, look forward to the pics & video.
I can't understand how an air lock would stop your depth gauge working.
Are they the digital type that require a battery
Liked the girl friend bit; she would have been impressed.
Alan







________________________________
 From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:23 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
 


Hi All,
?
Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.? I used the crane again to lift in and out.? My trailer needs some modification before i can use it.? Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.
?
I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was doing everything proper.? 
?
I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.? Put 24kg of lead on that side.? Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in 160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear tank.? Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside out out.? Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.
?
Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.? Didnt really intend to go to the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.? Landed on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).? Went up and down loads of times and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.? Seem to have got the weight about right.? Drove about just off the seabed and found it was quite easy to spin around and control.? Drove around on the surface a bit as well to test surface running.? Again this was ok using the rear thruster.
?
Some problems.? Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on the exterior one.? Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an airlock.? Never thought of that when i was fitting it.? Will probably make an oil bladder.? No big deal.
?
Port side motor stopped working.? I thought it might have filled with water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.? Unplugged it and plugged it back in and its now working again.? Not exactly sure what was wrong there.
?
Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if the boat didnt go down evenly.? A tactical hole should sort that out.
?
Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not anodized.? Not sure how i can stop that.
?
I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.? This got on the video camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.
?
Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.? Put them on for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.
?
A completely random X girlfriend turned up.? I think she was with one of the divers and didnt realise it was me.? I popped out of the hatch and could see she was suprised "er, hello".? That was a bit awkward.
?
Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.? grrrr
?
All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small pressurised cannisters later in the evening....
?
Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so after ive sorted them all out.

Kind Regards
James
?
?
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 08:12:32 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 08:12:32 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABECYQ50adwQUnyZ3aLDf9-GVDtr35CtOt=UG1M+-v0FZdOF6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats! That was an excellent report, and I'm truly looking forward to
many a future adventure. You're one of a very small number of PSUB
operators with ready access to the sea, so I hope Jodie-B produces many a
story.

Best,

Alec


On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 6:23 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used the
> crane again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification before
> i can use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.
>
> I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was
> doing everything proper.
>
> I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod
> and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put 24kg of
> lead on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in
> 160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear
> tank.  Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside
> out out.  Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.
>
> Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to go to
> the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.  Landed
> on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up and down loads of times
> and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.  Seem to have
> got the weight about right.  Drove about just off the seabed and found it
> was quite easy to spin around and control.  Drove around on the surface a
> bit as well to test surface running.  Again this was ok using the rear
> thruster.
>
> Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on
> the exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an
> airlock.  Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will probably make
> an oil bladder.  No big deal.
>
> Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled with
> water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and plugged it
> back in and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what was wrong there.
>
> Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if
> the boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that out.
>
> Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not
> anodized.  Not sure how i can stop that.
>
> I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but
> although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and
> formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the video
> camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.
>
> Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put them on
> for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.
>
> A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with one of
> the divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the hatch and
> could see she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit awkward.
>
> Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr
>
> All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small
> pressurised cannisters later in the evening....
>
> Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so
> after ive sorted them all out.
>
> Kind Regards
> James
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 08:20:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 08:20:36 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGy4bi3qfca9c-fa9-sWnE0GSQStnq9PdX4Ft+LmTHcvdg@mail.gmail.com>

James. good report, thanks!  Good to learn from others.  I enjoyed the x
girlfriend and pressurized container bits.

Steve


On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 6:23 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used the
> crane again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification before
> i can use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.
>
> I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was
> doing everything proper.
>
> I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod
> and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put 24kg of
> lead on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in
> 160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear
> tank.  Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside
> out out.  Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.
>
> Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to go to
> the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.  Landed
> on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up and down loads of times
> and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.  Seem to have
> got the weight about right.  Drove about just off the seabed and found it
> was quite easy to spin around and control.  Drove around on the surface a
> bit as well to test surface running.  Again this was ok using the rear
> thruster.
>
> Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on
> the exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an
> airlock.  Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will probably make
> an oil bladder.  No big deal.
>
> Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled with
> water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and plugged it
> back in and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what was wrong there.
>
> Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if
> the boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that out.
>
> Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not
> anodized.  Not sure how i can stop that.
>
> I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but
> although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and
> formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the video
> camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.
>
> Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put them on
> for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.
>
> A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with one of
> the divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the hatch and
> could see she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit awkward.
>
> Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr
>
> All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small
> pressurised cannisters later in the evening....
>
> Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so
> after ive sorted them all out.
>
> Kind Regards
> James
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 08:22:10 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 08:22:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
In-Reply-To: <CABECYQ50adwQUnyZ3aLDf9-GVDtr35CtOt=UG1M+-v0FZdOF6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABECYQ50adwQUnyZ3aLDf9-GVDtr35CtOt=UG1M+-v0FZdOF6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D147BD6AFA7799-2C70-23606@webmail-m278.sysops.aol.com>

Ditto, James. Congratulations.
Vance



-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, May 27, 2014 8:13 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.


Congrats! That was an excellent report, and I'm truly looking forward to many a future adventure. You're one of a very small number of PSUB operators with ready access to the sea, so I hope Jodie-B produces many a story. 


Best,

Alec




On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 6:23 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Hi All,
 
Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used the crane again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification before i can use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.
 
I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was doing everything proper.  
 
I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put 24kg of lead on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in 160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear tank.  Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside out out.  Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.
 
Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to go to the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.  Landed on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up and down loads of times and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.  Seem to have got the weight about right.  Drove about just off the seabed and found it was quite easy to spin around and control.  Drove around on the surface a bit as well to test surface running.  Again this was ok using the rear thruster.
 
Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on the exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an airlock.  Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will probably make an oil bladder.  No big deal.
 
Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled with water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and plugged it back in and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what was wrong there.
 
Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if the boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that out.
 
Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not anodized.  Not sure how i can stop that.
 
I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the video camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.
 
Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put them on for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.
 
A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with one of the divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the hatch and could see she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit awkward.
 
Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr
 
All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small pressurised cannisters later in the evening....
 
Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so after ive sorted them all out.

Kind Regards
James
 
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles





_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 08:35:23 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 05:35:23 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
Message-ID: <20140527053523.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1dba474bbf.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 08:58:05 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 08:58:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
Message-ID: <aa12f.26ba16f7.40b5e5dd@aol.com>

Hi James,
Another successful mission.  We'll all be looking  forward to those pics 
and videos.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 5/27/2014 7:35:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:

Congrats James!
-Scott Waters 
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
From: James Frankland via  Personal_Submersibles
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>
Date:  Tue, May 27, 2014 3:23 am
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 

Hi All,
 
Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used  the 
crane again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification  before i 
can use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial  testing.
 
I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was  
doing everything proper.  
 
I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery  pod 
and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put  24kg of 
lead on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and  eventually put in 
160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under  the deck and rear tank. 
 Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550  pounds) of lead both inside out 
out.  Maybe i should get on the pies  and sausages.
 
Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to  go to 
the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever  dive.  Landed on 
the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up  and down loads of times 
and got the hang of getting neutral using the  variable tank.  Seem to have 
got the weight about right.  Drove  about just off the seabed and found it 
was quite easy to spin around and  control.  Drove around on the surface a bit 
as well to test surface  running.  Again this was ok using the rear 
thruster.
 
Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to  rely on 
the exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must  be an 
airlock.  Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will  probably make an oil 
bladder.  No big deal.
 
Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled  with 
water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and  plugged it back 
in and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what  was wrong there.
 
Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed  if 
the boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that  out.
 
Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not  anodized. 
 Not sure how i can stop that.
 
I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but  
although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and  
formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the  video 
camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.
 
Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put  them on 
for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion  test.
 
A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with  one of 
the divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the  hatch and could 
see she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit  awkward.
 
Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr
 
All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small  
pressurised cannisters later in the evening....
 
Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so  
after ive sorted them all out.

Kind Regards
James
 
 
 
____________________________________
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing list
_Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) 
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles  mailing  list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 09:18:28 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 06:18:28 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Picture
Message-ID: <20140527061828.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f532326904.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 10:08:54 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 15:08:54 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Picture
In-Reply-To: <20140527061828.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f532326904.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
References: <20140527061828.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f532326904.wbe@email13.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UD8kpAnxkNfuPbxUir+bJypCpiWOYrEeWis0_8CAsQMZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,

This is it here.

http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/sub2.html

Regards
James

On 27 May 2014 14:18, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>  Does anyone know where I can find the picture of the K boat that
> retrieved the body? I remember seeing it a few years ago? We get a number
> of drowning victims in the lakes of Kansas and the visibility is 0' - 3'
> max. Our local law enforcement has no recourses for finding the bodies
> besides boat using drag lines and cheap fish finders. I think I can lind a
> helping hand with a high quality sonar and underwater comms.
>
>
> http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/man-missing-presumed-drowned-at-milford-lake/26172148
>
> They might just need to see the picture to know I am serious about helping
> and not just some goof ball wanting to get in the way.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 16:25:09 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 22:25:09 +0200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAspaVG4/voUmV5Rt6+n5IBAEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>

James,

 

First of all congrats and thanks for the report!!

Next time you need no safety divers at all. Problem solved.

Hey, you live on a island; don't you "know" then any girl?

 

Why not anodise the retainer ring?  My anodizer advises 30 Micron hard
anodizing and a Teflon treatment for best corrosion resistance.

 

 

 Regards, Emile

 

 

  _____  

Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: dinsdag 27 mei 2014 12:23
Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.

 

Hi All,

 

Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used the crane
again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification before i can
use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.

 

I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was
doing everything proper.  

 

I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod
and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put 24kg of lead
on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in 160kg
(352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear tank.
Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside out
out.  Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.

 

Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to go to the
bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.  Landed on the
bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up and down loads of times and got
the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.  Seem to have got the
weight about right.  Drove about just off the seabed and found it was quite
easy to spin around and control.  Drove around on the surface a bit as well
to test surface running.  Again this was ok using the rear thruster.

 

Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on the
exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an airlock.
Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will probably make an oil
bladder.  No big deal.

 

Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled with water,
but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and plugged it back in
and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what was wrong there.

 

Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if the
boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that out.

 

Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not anodized.
Not sure how i can stop that.

 

I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but
although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and
formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the video
camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.

 

Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put them on
for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.

 

A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with one of the
divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the hatch and could see
she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit awkward.

 

Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr

 

All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small
pressurised cannisters later in the evening....

 

Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so after
ive sorted them all out.


Kind Regards

James

 

 

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Tue May 27 16:26:35 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 08:26:35 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
In-Reply-To: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5384f503.6487440a.1426.0d03@mx.google.com>

Congratulations James.  Sounds like you had a fun day.

Lucky you only had one X turn up.

Regards,  Hugh

 

 

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Tuesday, 27 May 2014 10:23 p.m.
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.

 

Hi All,

 

Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used the crane again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification before i can use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.

 

I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was doing everything proper.  

 

I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put 24kg of lead on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in 160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear tank.  Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both inside out out.  Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.

 

Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to go to the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.  Landed on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up and down loads of times and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.  Seem to have got the weight about right.  Drove about just off the seabed and found it was quite easy to spin around and control.  Drove around on the surface a bit as well to test surface running.  Again this was ok using the rear thruster.

 

Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on the exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an airlock.  Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will probably make an oil bladder.  No big deal.

 

Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled with water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and plugged it back in and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what was wrong there.

 

Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if the boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that out.

 

Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not anodized.  Not sure how i can stop that.

 

I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the video camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.

 

Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put them on for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.

 

A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with one of the divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the hatch and could see she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit awkward.

 

Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr

 

All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small pressurised cannisters later in the evening....

 

Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so after ive sorted them all out.


Kind Regards

James

 

 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9853 (20140527) __________

 

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

 

http://www.eset.com

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 28 05:13:27 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 10:13:27 +0100
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAspaVG4/voUmV5Rt6+n5IBAEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
References: <CAHpB=UD0Z0QTT8t44eCohjOTbvjMCutwNF8vCCi15KYnOaixnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAZwsRHrMgVEqOdYPpMxKVucKAAAAQAAAAspaVG4/voUmV5Rt6+n5IBAEAAAAA@airesearch.nl>
Message-ID: <CAHpB=UAMroPMfHQbbSmxU-mKOMtppxxoi+__KDTtj5NF1POMWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Emile,

No, i dont know all the girls here!

Yes, i think i will have to anodiize the retainer ring.  If i dont it will
dissintegrate.  The mounting ring which you made is anodized and that shows
no corrosion at all.
Kind Regards
James
On 27 May 2014 21:25, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>   James,
>
>
>
> First of all congrats and thanks for the report!!
>
> Next time you need no safety divers at all. Problem solved.
>
> Hey, you live on a island; don?t you ?know? then any girl?
>
>
>
> Why not anodise the retainer ring?  My anodizer advises 30 Micron hard
> anodizing and a Teflon treatment for best corrosion resistance.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Regards, Emile
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *James Frankland via
> Personal_Submersibles
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 27 mei 2014 12:23
> *Aan:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jodie-B dives at last.
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Managed to get my boat in the water this weekend at last.  I used the
> crane again to lift in and out.  My trailer needs some modification before
> i can use it.  Plus the crane is a lot easier just for initial testing.
>
>
>
> I had proper commercial divers and boat in the water this time so i was
> doing everything proper.
>
>
>
> I attached a temporary wooden bar to the side of the starbord battery pod
> and hung weights on that until it was trimmed up sideways.  Put 24kg of
> lead on that side.  Then loaded up with lead inside and eventually put in
> 160kg (352 pounds) on top of what i'd already put under the deck and rear
> tank.  Estimate ive added a total of 250kg (550 pounds) of lead both
> inside out out.  Maybe i should get on the pies and sausages.
>
>
>
> Once trimmed up i managed to dive at last.  Didnt really intend to go to
> the bottom but didnt have a lot of choice on the first ever dive.  Landed
> on the bottom of the harbour at 6m (20ft).  Went up and down loads of times
> and got the hang of getting neutral using the variable tank.  Seem to have
> got the weight about right.  Drove about just off the seabed and found it
> was quite easy to spin around and control.  Drove around on the surface a
> bit as well to test surface running.  Again this was ok using the rear
> thruster.
>
>
>
> Some problems.  Internal depth gauges didnt work at all, had to rely on
> the exterior one.  Ive put the pipe work going up so there must be an
> airlock.  Never thought of that when i was fitting it.  Will probably make
> an oil bladder.  No big deal.
>
>
>
> Port side motor stopped working.  I thought it might have filled with
> water, but when i drained it, it was all ok.  Unplugged it and plugged it
> back in and its now working again.  Not exactly sure what was wrong there.
>
>
>
> Got an air bubble stuck in the forward tank that could not be removed if
> the boat didnt go down evenly.  A tactical hole should sort that out.
>
>
>
> Quite a bit of corrosion on the dome retaining ring which is not
> anodized.  Not sure how i can stop that.
>
>
>
> I'd filled the variable tank with Lanolin to protect it in storage but
> although id pumped most of it out before diving, some residue was left and
> formed a greasy film on the surface of the water.  This got on the video
> camera and has fuzzed up a lot of the videos.
>
>
>
> Completely forget to test the lights until right at the end.  Put them on
> for about 5 mins, but not enough time for a proper corrosion test.
>
>
>
> A completely random X girlfriend turned up.  I think she was with one of
> the divers and didnt realise it was me.  I popped out of the hatch and
> could see she was suprised "er, hello".  That was a bit awkward.
>
>
>
> Divers scratched my lovely new lettering.  grrrr
>
>
>
> All in all a fantastic day for me and i celebrated with several small
> pressurised cannisters later in the evening....
>
>
>
> Ive got loads of pics and video which i'll send in the next day or so
> after ive sorted them all out.
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> James
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 28 19:28:39 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 19:28:39 -0400
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
In-Reply-To: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
References: <53817A41.9040602@psubs.org>
Message-ID: <CAAGGCGwA_Fi7rf7zYCc7_vhymYb_7iJ2Khe4LR0kLL7ccQ1u+A@mail.gmail.com>

Jon, I am planning on attending.

Thanks,
Steve


On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> PSUBS announces the West Coast Sessions, a group event scheduled for
> August 21-24, 2014.
>
> A late summer event is being planned for the Bellingham Washington area
> including a trip to Vancouver BC Canada to tour Nuytco Research.  The
> current schedule of events includes:
> 1) Meet & Greet, August 21
> 2) Submarine Diving, August 22
> 3) Nuytco Research Tour, August 23
>
>  Jim Todd is the Planning & Program Chairman for this event, and he will
> be providing more detailed information later.  In order to secure the best
> possible hotel discount and to know how large a block of rooms to reserve,
> please register for the event as soon as possible at
> http://www.psubs.org/convention/2014.  We will announce the name of the
> official headquarters hotel soon, and of course you are free to choose
> another hotel accommodation if you prefer.  Several of the hotel websites
> are already indicating "No rooms available," so the sooner you can respond,
> the better.
>
> IMPORTANT!!:  *To cross the border into Canada for the Nuytco tour, every
> person no matter what age must present a valid passport*.  If you do not
> have an up-to-date passport I would strongly suggest you apply for or renew
> your passport ASAP.  More on this later.
>
> Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is 1 hour 40 minutes from
> Bellingham.  Vancouver International Airport is 50 miles or about 1 hour
> from Bellingham.  If your departure point is within the Unites States,
> flying into Seattle-Tacoma is likely to be somewhat cheaper.
>
> Some of you toured Nuytco during our convention several years ago.  Dr.
> Phil has expanded the facility substantially since then to accommodate
> greater manufacturing activities.  There are presently a number of subs
> under construction.  See http://nuytco.com/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 28 21:31:38 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 20:31:38 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
Message-ID: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>

Hey guys. I am still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating peices.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 28 22:13:33 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Land N Sea via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 16:13:33 -1000
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <F9226CEF054B4AECB28223BFB6F13BE2@LandNSeaPC>

Hey Scott,

I would love to help as I am planning on having one on my K-350 but lack any engineering experience. I was planning on going Hydraulics with the pump and controls inside and having 8 penetrations ( a supply and return for four functions ) Rotation, two arms like a back hoe and claws. Would love to have the claw rotate as well but trying to keep the cost down to a dull roar. 
I was trying to size the cylinders to the arm size and picking capability and someone mentioned maybe using the cylinders that make an outboard motor tilt. I just rented a large moving van with a hydraulic lift gate and those cylinders were bigger than an outboard motor tilt set up and would give you a bit more oomph  as well though you are pretty limited to lifting before nosing the boat down in the front unless you had a VBT up forward to compensate the load. Any hydraulic engineers out there in the group?

Rick



From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:31 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Hey guys. I am still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating peices. 
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Wed May 28 22:22:50 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 19:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401330170.79623.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Scott,
If you Google "arm 5 E manipulator" you will come across a pdf on
an electric underwater manipulator. I saw one demonstrated at UI.
It didn't respond to a command & took a chunk out of its bench.
I think the shallow depth models don't have oil compensation,
but the deeper ones do. Cliff can tell you about the pitfalls of oil
compensating those little motors.?
They probably are compensating the whole actuactor which means?
that as the piston retracts the oil in the body is displaced & has to?
move out in to a compensating device. I think I heard they maintain
an internal pressure of 4psi above ambient.
So a lot of mucking about.
Below is a site link with a number of hydraulic manipulators & attached diagrams,
which may give you a bit of visual information on how they are put together.
There are also robot arm calculators you can use that start with the weight you

want to lift & calculate the power needed at each link.
Regards Alan

Hydro-Lek Remote Handling - Hydraulic Manipulators

 
   Hydro-Lek Remote Handling - Hydraulic Manipulators
Hydro-Lek is a leading supplier of remote intervention systems for the subsea, nuclear and defence industries.  
View on www.hydro-lek.com Preview by Yahoo  




________________________________
 From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:31 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 


Hey guys. I am still working on the manipulator arm project for the K boats. I am a little overwhelmed as to what direction to head. I really don't know where to start because of my lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as to where to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather than hydrolics just because of the amount of external operating peices.?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 08:20:44 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 05:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.  I have made many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a lot.  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.  A manipulator is for manipulating not lifting.  With that in mind, large components are not needed.  Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all that is needed.  A 2in bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke is all you need.  Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back pressure.  I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.  Consider using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.  No need for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.  As for the arm itself, if have made them from cardboard first.  You can mock it up that way and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the
 cylinders stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is folded up.  Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.  Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000 dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
 
 Hey guys. I am
 still working on the manipulator arm project for the K
 boats. I am a little overwhelmed as to what direction to
 head. I really don't know where to start because of my
 lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as to where
 to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather
 than hydrolics just because of the amount of external
 operating peices.?Thanks,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 16:36:26 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 08:36:26 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
 <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>

Hank,
That seems like very good advice.  I am wanting to do a manipulator but need
to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
What are the pumps you have found to work best.  What pressure do they
develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with
breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some
more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the
large side diameter wise.  Any brand best?  Cheers,  Hugh 


-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Scott,
No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.  I have made
many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a
lot.  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.  A manipulator
is for manipulating not lifting.  With that in mind, large components are
not needed.  Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all that is needed.  A 2in
bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
is all you need.  Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back
pressure.  I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.  Consider
using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.  No need
for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.  As for the arm
itself, if have made them from cardboard first.  You can mock it up that way
and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the  cylinders
stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square
tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
folded up.  Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
 
 Hey guys. I am
 still working on the manipulator arm project for the K  boats. I am a
little overwhelmed as to what direction to  head. I really don't know where
to start because of my  lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as
to where  to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather  than
hydrolics just because of the amount of external  operating
peices.?Thanks,Scott  Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 17:18:20 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 14:18:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>
References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
 <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1401398300.36331.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hank,
Firstly I'm just learning about this stuff.
I came across these control valves that looked reasonably priced.
Directional Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulics | Northern Tool + Equipment

With the convertible pump idea you would save space around the pilot control area by having small electric
switches instead of large valves, but wouldn't you lose the ability to slow the movement down. It would
just be an on / off jerky movement.
They do have?reasonably priced?solenoids on this site ?with "soft shift" which I presume means a degree of
control rather than full on / full off.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-valves+power-solenoid

For $139- per degree of movement plus the price of one power unit, (round $500-) you could have electric control.
Power units-
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-power-units

Alan
?
 
   Directional Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulic Control...
Directional Hydraulic Control Valves  
View on www.northerntool.com Preview by Yahoo  


________________________________
 From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 

Hank,
That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need
to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they
develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with
breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some
more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the
large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh 


-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Scott,
No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made
many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a
lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator
is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are
not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in
bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back
pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider
using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need
for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the arm
itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way
and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders
stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square
tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM

Hey guys. I am
still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a
little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where
to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as
to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than
hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating
peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 17:24:45 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 14:24:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1401398685.91217.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi Hugh,
The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a wind shield wiper motor.  They are quite small actually.  I would say the motor is about 2.5in dia and 6in tall.  They develop 1,000 psi, at least the one I tested did.  I have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the same more less. Also I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd pump.  You will need a hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.  The beauty of a top pump is that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft pump that according to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at max depth of 1,000 feet.
That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the arm to work.  I have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it seems good already at that pressure.  

Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm 
 To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM
 
 Hank,
 That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a
 manipulator but need
 to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
 What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What
 pressure do they
 develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and
 came up with
 breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so
 chased down some
 more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look
 a bit on the
 large side diameter wise.? Any brand best??
 Cheers,? Hugh 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 
 Scott,
 No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of
 money.? I have made
 many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them
 strong to lift a
 lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it
 best.? A manipulator
 is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind,
 large components are
 not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are?
 all that is needed.? A 2in
 bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as
 much as 6in stroke
 is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that
 reduces the back
 pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible
 top pumps.? Consider
 using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125
 bucks.? No need
 for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change
 direction of the
 piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real
 simple.? As for the arm
 itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You
 can mock it up that way
 and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure
 the? cylinders
 stroke properly without over centering. You can build the
 arm with square
 tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when
 the arm is
 folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of
 time to play around.
 Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built
 for under 1,000
 dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with
 if you like.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
  
  Hey guys. I am
  still working on the manipulator arm project for the
 K? boats. I am a
 little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I
 really don't know where
 to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone
 have any pointers as
 to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric
 motors rather? than
 hydrolics just because of the amount of external?
 operating
 peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
 virus signature
 database 9862 (20140528) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
 virus signature
 database 9862 (20140528) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 17:30:50 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 14:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <1401398300.36331.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1401399050.14025.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
The arm is very smooth on Gamma except for the swing.  The reason it is smooth is the extreme low flow rate with 1/8in lines.  The swing is jerky because the swing cylinder is to short making the swing to fast.  I presume in the water it will be a bit better due to water resistance, like an oar on a boat.  The valve bank does not need to be near the pilot, Gamma has the valve outside the hull.  
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 5:18 PM
 
 Hank,Firstly I'm just learning
 about this stuff.I
 came across these control valves that looked reasonably
 priced.Directional Hydraulic Control
 Valves | Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulics | Northern
 Tool + Equipment
 With the convertible pump idea you
 would save space around the pilot control area by having
 small electricswitches instead of large valves, but
 wouldn't you lose the ability to slow the movement down.
 It wouldjust be an on / off jerky
 movement.They do have?reasonably
 priced?solenoids on this site ?with
 "soft shift" which I presume means a degree
 ofcontrol rather than
  full on / full off.http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-valves+power-solenoid
 For $139- per degree of movement plus
 the price of one power unit, (round $500-) you could have
 electric control.Power
  units-http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-power-units
 Alan ?Directional
 Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulic
 Control...Directional Hydraulic Control
 ValvesView
 on www.northerntool.comPreview
 by Yahoo
       
 
 From: Hugh Fulton via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: 'Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion'
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
  Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014
 8:36 AM
  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    
 Hank,
 That seems like very good advice.? I am
 wanting to do a manipulator but need
 to get some idea of what
 lifting or forces are required.
 What are the pumps you have
 found to work best.? What pressure do they
 develop? I had
 no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up
 with
 breast
 pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased
 down some
 more and found that they are for convertible cars.
 They look a bit on the
 large side diameter wise.? Any brand
 best?? Cheers,? Hugh 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From:
 Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014
 12:21 a.m.
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 
 Scott,
 No matter how you do it, a
 manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made
 many and the
 tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift
 a
 lot.?
 Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it
 best.? A manipulator
 is for
  manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large
 components are
 not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay
 are? all that is needed.? A 2in
 bore and depending on manip
 design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
 is all you
 need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the
 back
 pressure.? I have said it before, I love
 convertible top pumps.? Consider
 using one pump per function
 again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need
 for valves, the
 pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
 piston. Keep the
 pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the
 arm
 itself,
 if have made them from cardboard first.? You
  can mock it up that way
 and find the best pin
 locations for the cylinders and ensure the?
 cylinders
 stroke properly without over centering. You can
 build the arm with square
 tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
 so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
 folded up.? Forget about
 a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
 Four functions
 will serve a psubber well and can be built for under
 1,000
 dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to
 play with if you like.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Wed, 5/28/14,
 swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
 Manipulator arm
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  Received: Wednesday, May 28,
 2014, 9:31 PM
  
 
 Hey guys. I am
  still working on the manipulator arm project for
 the K? boats. I am a
 little overwhelmed as to what
 direction to? head. I really don't know where
 to start because
 of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any
  pointers as
 to where? to start? I am thinking about using
 electric motors rather? than
 hydrolics just because of the
 amount of external? operating
 peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S.
 Cellular? Smartphone
  
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 __________
 Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
 signature
 database 9862 (20140528) __________
 
 The message was checked by
 ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
  
 
 __________ Information from
 ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
 database 9862
 (20140528) __________
 
 The
 message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
    
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 17:37:25 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 14:37:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>
References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
 <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com> 
Message-ID: <1401399445.59089.YahooMailNeo@web120906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hugh / Scott,
here is one of a few robotic arm calculators I've come across.
http://www.robotshop.com/blog/en/robot-arm-torque-calculator-9712

I guess it's a matter of horses for courses.
Where am I going to mount my manipulator?
How much reach do I want?
How many joints?
What weight do I want to lift?
What size cylinder does the calculator indicate I'll need for each joint?
How big an oil reservoir do I need based on the internal capacity of all cylinders?
What ?& speed do I need the manipulator to move at?
& what sized pump based on the above & operating depth.
? ?Then when you aren't happy with the results you try another scenario.
Alan






________________________________
 From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 

Hank,
That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a manipulator but need
to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What pressure do they
develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with
breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some
more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the
large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh 


-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Scott,
No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made
many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a
lot.? Well first
 off, I think it was Vance that said it best.? A manipulator
is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large components are
not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is needed.? A 2in
bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back
pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.? Consider
using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need
for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As
 for the arm
itself, if have made them from cardboard first.? You can mock it up that way
and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the? cylinders
stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square
tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
folded up.? Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters
 via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM

Hey guys. I am
still working on the manipulator arm project for the K? boats. I am a
little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I really don't know where
to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as
to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather? than
hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating
peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 18:22:54 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 17:22:54 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
Message-ID: <keafdgitrx659cmh287i3evq.1401402141394@email.android.com>

Hank,
Do you have any pictures of your manipulator arm?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Alan,
The arm is very smooth on Gamma except for the swing.? The reason it is smooth is the extreme low flow rate with 1/8in lines.? The swing is jerky because the swing cylinder is to short making the swing to fast.? I presume in the water it will be a bit better due to water resistance, like an oar on a boat.? The valve bank does not need to be near the pilot, Gamma has the valve outside the hull.? 
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 5:18 PM

Hank,Firstly I'm just learning
about this stuff.I
came across these control valves that looked reasonably
priced.Directional Hydraulic Control
Valves | Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulics | Northern
Tool + Equipment
With the convertible pump idea you
would save space around the pilot control area by having
small electricswitches instead of large valves, but
wouldn't you lose the ability to slow the movement down.
It wouldjust be an on / off jerky
movement.They do have?reasonably
priced?solenoids on this site ?with
"soft shift" which I presume means a degree
ofcontrol rather than
? full on / full off.http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-valves+power-solenoid
For $139- per degree of movement plus
the price of one power unit, (round $500-) you could have
electric control.Power
? units-http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-power-units
Alan ?Directional
Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulic
Control...Directional Hydraulic Control
ValvesView
on www.northerntool.comPreview
by Yahoo
?????? 

From: Hugh Fulton via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? To: 'Personal
Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
? Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014
8:36 AM
? Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
??? 
Hank,
That seems like very good advice.? I am
wanting to do a manipulator but need
to get some idea of what
lifting or forces are required.
What are the pumps you have
found to work best.? What pressure do they
develop? I had
no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up
with
breast
pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased
down some
more and found that they are for convertible cars.
They look a bit on the
large side diameter wise.? Any brand
best?? Cheers,? Hugh 


-----Original Message-----
From:
Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of
hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014
12:21 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Scott,
No matter how you do it, a
manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made
many and the
tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift
a
lot.?
Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it
best.? A manipulator
is for
? manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind, large
components are
not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay
are? all that is needed.? A 2in
bore and depending on manip
design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
is all you
need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the
back
pressure.? I have said it before, I love
convertible top pumps.? Consider
using one pump per function
again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need
for valves, the
pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
piston. Keep the
pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for the
arm
itself,
if have made them from cardboard first.? You
? can mock it up that way
and find the best pin
locations for the cylinders and ensure the?
cylinders
stroke properly without over centering. You can
build the arm with square
tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
folded up.? Forget about
a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
Four functions
will serve a psubber well and can be built for under
1,000
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to
play with if you like.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/28/14,
swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulator arm
? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
? Received: Wednesday, May 28,
2014, 9:31 PM
? 

Hey guys. I am
? still working on the manipulator arm project for
the K? boats. I am a
little overwhelmed as to what
direction to? head. I really don't know where
to start because
of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any
? pointers as
to where? to start? I am thinking about using
electric motors rather? than
hydrolics just because of the
amount of external? operating
peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S.
Cellular? Smartphone
? 

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 

_______________________________________________

Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

__________
Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by
ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 
? 

__________ Information from
ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9862
(20140528) __________

The
message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

??? 

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 18:26:52 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 15:26:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <keafdgitrx659cmh287i3evq.1401402141394@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401402412.48312.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Scott,
There are pictures under Gamma restoration and there is a picture of a small arm I built for my small yellow sub.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 6:22 PM
 
 Hank,Do
 you have any pictures of your manipulator
 arm?Thanks,Scott Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Alan,
 The arm is very smooth on Gamma except for the swing.?
 The reason it is smooth is the extreme low flow rate with
 1/8in lines.? The swing is jerky because the swing
 cylinder is to short making the swing to fast.? I
 presume in the water it will be a bit better due to water
 resistance, like an oar on a boat.? The valve bank does
 not need to be near the pilot, Gamma has the valve outside
 the hull.? 
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 5/29/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 5:18 PM
  
  Hank,Firstly I'm just learning
  about this stuff.I
  came across these control valves that looked reasonably
  priced.Directional Hydraulic Control
  Valves | Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulics | Northern
  Tool + Equipment
  With the convertible pump idea you
  would save space around the pilot control area by having
  small electricswitches instead of large valves, but
  wouldn't you lose the ability to slow the movement
 down.
  It wouldjust be an on / off jerky
  movement.They do have?reasonably
  priced?solenoids on this site ?with
  "soft shift" which I presume means a degree
  ofcontrol rather than
 ? full on / full
 off.http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-valves+power-solenoid
  For $139- per degree of movement plus
  the price of one power unit, (round $500-) you could have
  electric control.Power
 ?
 units-http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-power-units
  Alan ?Directional
  Hydraulic Control Valves | Hydraulic
  Control...Directional Hydraulic Control
  ValvesView
  on www.northerntool.comPreview
  by Yahoo
 ?????? 
  
  From: Hugh Fulton via
  Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? To: 'Personal
  Submersibles General Discussion'
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 ? Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014
  8:36 AM
 ? Subject: Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 ??? 
  Hank,
  That seems like very good advice.? I am
  wanting to do a manipulator but need
  to get some idea of what
  lifting or forces are required.
  What are the pumps you have
  found to work best.? What pressure do they
  develop? I had
  no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up
  with
  breast
  pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so
 chased
  down some
  more and found that they are for convertible cars.
  They look a bit on the
  large side diameter wise.? Any brand
  best?? Cheers,? Hugh 
  
  
  -----Original Message-----
  From:
  Personal_Submersibles
 [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
  On Behalf Of
  hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014
  12:21 a.m.
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
  Subject: Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  
  Scott,
  No matter how you do it, a
  manipulator will cost some of money.? I have made
  many and the
  tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift
  a
  lot.?
  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it
  best.? A manipulator
  is for
 ? manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind,
 large
  components are
  not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay
  are? all that is needed.? A 2in
  bore and depending on manip
  design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
  is all you
  need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces
 the
  back
  pressure.? I have said it before, I love
  convertible top pumps.? Consider
  using one pump per function
  again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.? No need
  for valves, the
  pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
  piston. Keep the
  pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.? As for
 the
  arm
  itself,
  if have made them from cardboard first.? You
 ? can mock it up that way
  and find the best pin
  locations for the cylinders and ensure the?
  cylinders
  stroke properly without over centering. You can
  build the arm with square
  tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
  so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
  folded up.? Forget about
  a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
  Four functions
  will serve a psubber well and can be built for under
  1,000
  dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to
  play with if you like.
  Hank
  --------------------------------------------
  On Wed, 5/28/14,
  swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  
 ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
  Manipulator arm
 ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 ? Received: Wednesday, May 28,
  2014, 9:31 PM
 ? 
  
  Hey guys. I am
 ? still working on the manipulator arm project for
  the K? boats. I am a
  little overwhelmed as to what
  direction to? head. I really don't know where
  to start because
  of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any
 ? pointers as
  to where? to start? I am thinking about using
  electric motors rather? than
  hydrolics just because of the
  amount of external? operating
  peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent
 ? from my U.S.
  Cellular? Smartphone
 ? 
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ? 
  
  _______________________________________________
  
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
  __________
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  signature
  database 9862 (20140528) __________
  
  The message was checked by
  ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
  http://www.eset.com
 ? 
 ? 
  
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  ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
  database 9862
  (20140528) __________
  
  The
  message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
  http://www.eset.com
 ? 
  
  
  _______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 19:09:58 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 11:09:58 +1200
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <1401398685.91217.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>
 <1401398685.91217.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5387be51.26dd420a.4bf3.6d53@mx.google.com>

Thanks Hank, great info. And the arms on your project page look pretty
smart.  What was the wrist movement and how is that accomplished.  Was it
continual rotation or 180 degree.
I see that Hydrolek uses a gerotor.  We need a Psubs project to do a manip.
Maybe a good subject for the next meeting.  Cheers,  Hugh 



-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 9:25 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Hi Hugh,
The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a wind shield wiper
motor.  They are quite small actually.  I would say the motor is about 2.5in
dia and 6in tall.  They develop 1,000 psi, at least the one I tested did.  I
have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the same more less. Also
I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd pump.  You will need a
hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.  The beauty of a top pump is
that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft pump that according
to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at max depth of
1,000 feet.
That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the arm to work.  I
have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it seems good already
at that pressure.  

Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM
 
 Hank,
 That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a  manipulator but
need  to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
 What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What  pressure do they
develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and  came up with
breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so  chased down some
more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look  a bit on the
large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?  Cheers,? Hugh 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 
 Scott,
 No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of  money.? I have
made  many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them  strong to
lift a  lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it  best.? A
manipulator  is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind,  large
components are  not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all that is
needed.? A 2in  bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as
much as 6in stroke  is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that
reduces the back  pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible  top
pumps.? Consider  using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for
125  bucks.? No need  for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change
direction of the  piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real
simple.? As for the arm  itself, if have made them from cardboard first.?
You  can mock it up that way  and find the best pin locations for the
cylinders and ensure  the? cylinders  stroke properly without over
centering. You can build the  arm with square  tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
so the cylinders fit inside when  the arm is  folded up.? Forget about a
wrist until you have lots of  time to play around.
 Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built  for under 1,000
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with  if you like.
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
  
  Hey guys. I am
  still working on the manipulator arm project for the  K? boats. I am a
little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I  really don't know where
to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone  have any pointers as
to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric  motors rather? than
hydrolics just because of the amount of external  operating
peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
  
  
  
  Sent
  from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
  
  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of  virus
signature  database 9862 (20140528) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of  virus
signature  database 9862 (20140528) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9866 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
  

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9867 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 20:34:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 19:34:47 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
Message-ID: <ryqpm60ttklgolqomli3o4cu.1401409973130@email.android.com>

Hugh,
I have started collecting info and and doing R&D on a psubs manipulator. The plan would be to have my wife make the parts on our Plasma Cam and sell it as a inexpensive kit. Hopefully I will have something by the 2015 psubs conference.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? SmartphoneHugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Thanks Hank, great info. And the arms on your project page look pretty
smart.? What was the wrist movement and how is that accomplished.? Was it
continual rotation or 180 degree.
I see that Hydrolek uses a gerotor.? We need a Psubs project to do a manip.
Maybe a good subject for the next meeting.? Cheers,? Hugh 



-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 9:25 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Hi Hugh,
The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a wind shield wiper
motor.? They are quite small actually.? I would say the motor is about 2.5in
dia and 6in tall.? They develop 1,000 psi, at least the one I tested did.? I
have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the same more less. Also
I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd pump.? You will need a
hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.? The beauty of a top pump is
that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft pump that according
to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at max depth of
1,000 feet.
That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the arm to work.? I
have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it seems good already
at that pressure.? 

Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM

Hank,
That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do a? manipulator but
need? to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
What are the pumps you have found to work best.? What? pressure do they
develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and? came up with
breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so? chased down some
more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look? a bit on the
large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,? Hugh 


-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Scott,
No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of? money.? I have
made? many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them? strong to
lift a? lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it? best.? A
manipulator? is for manipulating not lifting.? With that in mind,? large
components are? not needed.? Simple air cylinders from ebay are? all that is
needed.? A 2in? bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as
much as 6in stroke? is all you need.? Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that
reduces the back? pressure.? I have said it before, I love convertible? top
pumps.? Consider? using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for
125? bucks.? No need? for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change
direction of the? piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real
simple.? As for the arm? itself, if have made them from cardboard first.?
You? can mock it up that way? and find the best pin locations for the
cylinders and ensure? the? cylinders? stroke properly without over
centering. You can build the? arm with square? tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
so the cylinders fit inside when? the arm is? folded up.? Forget about a
wrist until you have lots of? time to play around.
Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built? for under 1,000
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with? if you like.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
? Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
? 
? Hey guys. I am
? still working on the manipulator arm project for the? K? boats. I am a
little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I? really don't know where
to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does anyone? have any pointers as
to where? to start? I am thinking about using electric? motors rather? than
hydrolics just because of the amount of external? operating
peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of? virus
signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of? virus
signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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database 9866 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9867 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 9867 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 20:36:07 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 19:36:07 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
Message-ID: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>

Hank,
That would be great. So on a four function would you have eight penetrations or four penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members.

My address is:
Scott Waters
3213 Arnold Ave
Bldg 122
Salina, KS 67401

Thank you,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 21:22:00 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 18:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
References: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401412920.43472.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

All,
Hydrolek sells the rototating mechanism separately,
which is in this case a rack & pinion unit. There's probably costs a bomb but
there are a lot on the net to choose from.
http://www.hydro-lek.com/datasheets/Rotary_Actuators/HLK-2260.pdf#view=FitH

A smaller unit than this may be the answer. There would be very little load while?
rotating. It would just need to hold it's position.
I might have posted this before, but here is a gripper design from my archives.
Manipulator | Aquaticus

Gosh, we are nearly there.
Alan
 
   Manipulator | Aquaticus
The open/close manipulator is useful tool to retrieve small objects or attach a line to objects located underwater. The jaws of are driven by the electr...  
View on aquaticus.info Preview by Yahoo  



________________________________
 From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 12:36 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 


Hank,
That would be great. So on a four function would you have eight penetrations or four penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members.

My address is:
Scott Waters
3213 Arnold Ave
Bldg 122
Salina, KS 67401

Thank you,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Thu May 29 22:34:31 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 19:34:31 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS West Coast Sessions
Message-ID: <20140529193431.44620FC6@m0048136.ppops.net>

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 05:10:11 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 02:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401441011.51943.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Scott,
Each function requires two penetrators.  Four functions will need 8 penetrators.  One way to create penetrations is to sacrifice a window and replace it with a penetration plate.  
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 8:36 PM
 
 Hank,That would be
 great. So on a four function would you have eight
 penetrations or four penetrations? My goal is to make a good
 and not to expensive (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub
 members.
 My address is:Scott
 Waters3213 Arnold AveBldg
 122Salina, KS 67401
 Thank you,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 05:19:27 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 02:19:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <5387be51.26dd420a.4bf3.6d53@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1401441567.31614.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hugh,
The wrist movement on Gamma is about 345 degrees and is accomplished with a single vane motor so to speak.  I did not build that arm, so I am not sure where that part came from.  I think it is a custom piece.  
Outside the wrist and hand, copying that arm is the way to go for psubbers.  That arm is very light and robust, also simple to build.  The hand could be replicated with two small 1 in bore cylinders instead of the way it is now.  Right now the hand and wrist are quite complicated to build for the average guy on a budget.  
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 7:09 PM
 
 Thanks Hank, great info. And the arms
 on your project page look pretty
 smart.? What was the wrist movement and how is that
 accomplished.? Was it
 continual rotation or 180 degree.
 I see that Hydrolek uses a gerotor.? We need a Psubs
 project to do a manip.
 Maybe a good subject for the next meeting.?
 Cheers,? Hugh 
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 9:25 a.m.
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 
 Hi Hugh,
 The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a wind
 shield wiper
 motor.? They are quite small actually.? I would
 say the motor is about 2.5in
 dia and 6in tall.? They develop 1,000 psi, at least the
 one I tested did.? I
 have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the same
 more less. Also
 I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd
 pump.? You will need a
 hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.? The
 beauty of a top pump is
 that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft
 pump that according
 to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at
 max depth of
 1,000 feet.
 That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the
 arm to work.? I
 have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it
 seems good already
 at that pressure.? 
 
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM
  
  Hank,
  That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do
 a? manipulator but
 need? to get some idea of what lifting or forces are
 required.
  What are the pumps you have found to work best.?
 What? pressure do they
 develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it
 and? came up with
 breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself
 so? chased down some
 more and found that they are for convertible cars. They
 look? a bit on the
 large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,?
 Hugh 
  
  
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Personal_Submersibles
 [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
  On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  
  Scott,
  No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some
 of? money.? I have
 made? many and the tendency seems to be, to try and
 make them? strong to
 lift a? lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance
 that said it? best.? A
 manipulator? is for manipulating not lifting.? With
 that in mind,? large
 components are? not needed.? Simple air cylinders from
 ebay are? all that is
 needed.? A 2in? bore and depending on manip design,
 4in stroke, maybe as
 much as 6in stroke? is all you need.? Keep the rod
 size small at 5/8, that
 reduces the back? pressure.? I have said it before, I
 love convertible? top
 pumps.? Consider? using one pump per function again
 purchase from ebay for
 125? bucks.? No need? for valves, the pump simply
 runs in reverse to change
 direction of the? piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub
 and it is real
 simple.? As for the arm? itself, if have made them
 from cardboard first.?
 You? can mock it up that way? and find the best
 pin locations for the
 cylinders and ensure? the? cylinders? stroke
 properly without over
 centering. You can build the? arm with square?
 tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
 so the cylinders fit inside when? the arm is?
 folded up.? Forget about a
 wrist until you have lots of? time to play around.
  Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be
 built? for under 1,000
 dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play
 with? if you like.
  Hank
  --------------------------------------------
  On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
 ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
 ? Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
 ? 
 ? Hey guys. I am
 ? still working on the manipulator arm project for
 the? K? boats. I am a
 little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I?
 really don't know where
 to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does
 anyone? have any pointers as
 to where? to start? I am thinking about using
 electric? motors rather? than
 hydrolics just because of the amount of external?
 operating
 peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
 ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? Sent
 ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
 ? 
 ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
  _______________________________________________
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  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
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  The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
  http://www.eset.com
 ? 
 ? 
  
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  The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
  http://www.eset.com
 ? 
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
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 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
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 database 9866 (20140529) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
 ? 
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
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 database 9867 (20140529) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
  
 
 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
 virus signature
 database 9867 (20140529) __________
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
  
 
 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 11:40:32 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 10:40:32 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
Message-ID: <7ooemfqbloper4r28cq310eo.1401464221729@email.android.com>

Hank,
Do you have any detailed pictures of the controller for the manipulator? How is the controller arranged in the submarine?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:Hugh,
The wrist movement on Gamma is about 345 degrees and is accomplished with a single vane motor so to speak.? I did not build that arm, so I am not sure where that part came from.? I think it is a custom piece.? 
Outside the wrist and hand, copying that arm is the way to go for psubbers.? That arm is very light and robust, also simple to build.? The hand could be replicated with two small 1 in bore cylinders instead of the way it is now.? Right now the hand and wrist are quite complicated to build for the average guy on a budget.? 
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 7:09 PM

Thanks Hank, great info. And the arms
on your project page look pretty
smart.? What was the wrist movement and how is that
accomplished.? Was it
continual rotation or 180 degree.
I see that Hydrolek uses a gerotor.? We need a Psubs
project to do a manip.
Maybe a good subject for the next meeting.?
Cheers,? Hugh 



-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 9:25 a.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Hi Hugh,
The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a wind
shield wiper
motor.? They are quite small actually.? I would
say the motor is about 2.5in
dia and 6in tall.? They develop 1,000 psi, at least the
one I tested did.? I
have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the same
more less. Also
I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd
pump.? You will need a
hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.? The
beauty of a top pump is
that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft
pump that according
to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at
max depth of
1,000 feet.
That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the
arm to work.? I
have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it
seems good already
at that pressure.? 

Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM
? 
? Hank,
? That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting to do
a? manipulator but
need? to get some idea of what lifting or forces are
required.
? What are the pumps you have found to work best.?
What? pressure do they
develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it
and? came up with
breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself
so? chased down some
more and found that they are for convertible cars. They
look? a bit on the
large side diameter wise.? Any brand best?? Cheers,?
Hugh 
? 
? 
? -----Original Message-----
? From: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
? On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
? Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? 
? Scott,
? No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some
of? money.? I have
made? many and the tendency seems to be, to try and
make them? strong to
lift a? lot.? Well first off, I think it was Vance
that said it? best.? A
manipulator? is for manipulating not lifting.? With
that in mind,? large
components are? not needed.? Simple air cylinders from
ebay are? all that is
needed.? A 2in? bore and depending on manip design,
4in stroke, maybe as
much as 6in stroke? is all you need.? Keep the rod
size small at 5/8, that
reduces the back? pressure.? I have said it before, I
love convertible? top
pumps.? Consider? using one pump per function again
purchase from ebay for
125? bucks.? No need? for valves, the pump simply
runs in reverse to change
direction of the? piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub
and it is real
simple.? As for the arm? itself, if have made them
from cardboard first.?
You? can mock it up that way? and find the best
pin locations for the
cylinders and ensure? the? cylinders? stroke
properly without over
centering. You can build the? arm with square?
tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
so the cylinders fit inside when? the arm is?
folded up.? Forget about a
wrist until you have lots of? time to play around.
? Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be
built? for under 1,000
dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play
with? if you like.
? Hank
? --------------------------------------------
? On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
? Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
? 
? Hey guys. I am
? still working on the manipulator arm project for
the? K? boats. I am a
little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head. I?
really don't know where
to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does
anyone? have any pointers as
to where? to start? I am thinking about using
electric? motors rather? than
hydrolics just because of the amount of external?
operating
peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
? 
? 
? 
? Sent
? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
? 
? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
of? virus
signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
? 
? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
? 
? http://www.eset.com
? 
? 
? 
? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
of? virus
signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
? 
? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
? 
? http://www.eset.com
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
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database 9866 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus signature
database 9867 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 
? 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus signature
database 9867 (20140529) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
? 


_______________________________________________
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 12:02:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 09:02:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <7ooemfqbloper4r28cq310eo.1401464221729@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401465767.83017.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Scott,
The arm is controlled with two joy sticks from, you guessed it ebay.  Also there are  two,two way toggle switches that control the hand and rotation. I would hate to pick up a gold bar and drop it because I bumped a joy stick. I can take a picture for you later today.
Hank --------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/30/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Friday, May 30, 2014, 11:40 AM
 
 Hank,Do
 you have any detailed pictures of the controller for the
 manipulator? How is the controller arranged in the
 submarine?Thanks,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Hugh,
 The wrist movement on Gamma is about 345 degrees and is
 accomplished with a single vane motor so to speak.? I
 did not build that arm, so I am not sure where that part
 came from.? I think it is a custom piece.? 
 Outside the wrist and hand, copying that arm is the way to
 go for psubbers.? That arm is very light and robust,
 also simple to build.? The hand could be replicated
 with two small 1 in bore cylinders instead of the way it is
 now.? Right now the hand and wrist are quite
 complicated to build for the average guy on a budget.?
 
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  To: "'Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion'"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 7:09 PM
  
  Thanks Hank, great info. And the arms
  on your project page look pretty
  smart.? What was the wrist movement and how is that
  accomplished.? Was it
  continual rotation or 180 degree.
  I see that Hydrolek uses a gerotor.? We need a Psubs
  project to do a manip.
  Maybe a good subject for the next meeting.?
  Cheers,? Hugh 
  
  
  
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Personal_Submersibles
 [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
  On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 9:25 a.m.
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  
  Hi Hugh,
  The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a
 wind
  shield wiper
  motor.? They are quite small actually.? I would
  say the motor is about 2.5in
  dia and 6in tall.? They develop 1,000 psi, at least
 the
  one I tested did.? I
  have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the
 same
  more less. Also
  I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd
  pump.? You will need a
  hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.? The
  beauty of a top pump is
  that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft
  pump that according
  to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at
  max depth of
  1,000 feet.
  That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the
  arm to work.? I
  have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it
  seems good already
  at that pressure.? 
  
  Hank
  --------------------------------------------
  On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 ? To: "'Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion'"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM
 ? 
 ? Hank,
 ? That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting
 to do
  a? manipulator but
  need? to get some idea of what lifting or forces are
  required.
 ? What are the pumps you have found to work
 best.?
  What? pressure do they
  develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it
  and? came up with
  breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself
  so? chased down some
  more and found that they are for convertible cars. They
  look? a bit on the
  large side diameter wise.? Any brand best??
 Cheers,?
  Hugh 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? -----Original Message-----
 ? From: Personal_Submersibles
  [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 ? On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 ? Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
 ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 ? 
 ? Scott,
 ? No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost
 some
  of? money.? I have
  made? many and the tendency seems to be, to try and
  make them? strong to
  lift a? lot.? Well first off, I think it was
 Vance
  that said it? best.? A
  manipulator? is for manipulating not lifting.?
 With
  that in mind,? large
  components are? not needed.? Simple air cylinders
 from
  ebay are? all that is
  needed.? A 2in? bore and depending on manip
 design,
  4in stroke, maybe as
  much as 6in stroke? is all you need.? Keep the
 rod
  size small at 5/8, that
  reduces the back? pressure.? I have said it
 before, I
  love convertible? top
  pumps.? Consider? using one pump per function
 again
  purchase from ebay for
  125? bucks.? No need? for valves, the pump
 simply
  runs in reverse to change
  direction of the? piston. Keep the pumps inside the
 sub
  and it is real
  simple.? As for the arm? itself, if have made
 them
  from cardboard first.?
  You? can mock it up that way? and find the best
  pin locations for the
  cylinders and ensure? the? cylinders?
 stroke
  properly without over
  centering. You can build the? arm with square?
  tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
  so the cylinders fit inside when? the arm is?
  folded up.? Forget about a
  wrist until you have lots of? time to play around.
 ? Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be
  built? for under 1,000
  dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play
  with? if you like.
 ? Hank
 ? --------------------------------------------
 ? On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
  ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  ? Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
  ? 
  ? Hey guys. I am
  ? still working on the manipulator arm project for
  the? K? boats. I am a
  little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head.
 I?
  really don't know where
  to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does
  anyone? have any pointers as
  to where? to start? I am thinking about using
  electric? motors rather? than
  hydrolics just because of the amount of external?
  operating
  peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Sent
  ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
  ? 
  ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? 
 ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
 version
  of? virus
  signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
 ? 
 ? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 ? 
 ? http://www.eset.com
  ? 
  ? 
 ? 
 ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
 version
  of? virus
  signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
 ? 
 ? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 ? 
 ? http://www.eset.com
  ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
  __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
 of
  virus signature
  database 9866 (20140529) __________
  
  The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
  http://www.eset.com
  ? 
  
  __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
 of
  virus signature
  database 9867 (20140529) __________
  
  The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
  http://www.eset.com
 ? 
 ? 
  
  __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
 of
  virus signature
  database 9867 (20140529) __________
  
  The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
  
  http://www.eset.com
 ? 
  
  
  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
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 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 12:05:50 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 09:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <7ooemfqbloper4r28cq310eo.1401464221729@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401465950.16209.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Scott,
The joy sticks are mounted so I can reach them easily while looking out the ports.  They are wired to operate the same as a bob-cat excavator.  You could hop right in and go to work.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/30/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Friday, May 30, 2014, 11:40 AM
 
 Hank,Do
 you have any detailed pictures of the controller for the
 manipulator? How is the controller arranged in the
 submarine?Thanks,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 Hugh,
 The wrist movement on Gamma is about 345 degrees and is
 accomplished with a single vane motor so to speak.? I
 did not build that arm, so I am not sure where that part
 came from.? I think it is a custom piece.? 
 Outside the wrist and hand, copying that arm is the way to
 go for psubbers.? That arm is very light and robust,
 also simple to build.? The hand could be replicated
 with two small 1 in bore cylinders instead of the way it is
 now.? Right now the hand and wrist are quite
 complicated to build for the average guy on a budget.?
 
 Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  To: "'Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion'"
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 7:09 PM
  
  Thanks Hank, great info. And the arms
  on your project page look pretty
  smart.? What was the wrist movement and how is that
  accomplished.? Was it
  continual rotation or 180 degree.
  I see that Hydrolek uses a gerotor.? We need a Psubs
  project to do a manip.
  Maybe a good subject for the next meeting.?
  Cheers,? Hugh 
  
  
  
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Personal_Submersibles
 [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
  On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 9:25 a.m.
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  
  Hi Hugh,
  The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a
 wind
  shield wiper
  motor.? They are quite small actually.? I would
  say the motor is about 2.5in
  dia and 6in tall.? They develop 1,000 psi, at least
 the
  one I tested did.? I
  have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the
 same
  more less. Also
  I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd
  pump.? You will need a
  hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.? The
  beauty of a top pump is
  that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft
  pump that according
  to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at
  max depth of
  1,000 feet.
  That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the
  arm to work.? I
  have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it
  seems good already
  at that pressure.? 
  
  Hank
  --------------------------------------------
  On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 ? To: "'Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion'"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM
 ? 
 ? Hank,
 ? That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting
 to do
  a? manipulator but
  need? to get some idea of what lifting or forces are
  required.
 ? What are the pumps you have found to work
 best.?
  What? pressure do they
  develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it
  and? came up with
  breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself
  so? chased down some
  more and found that they are for convertible cars. They
  look? a bit on the
  large side diameter wise.? Any brand best??
 Cheers,?
  Hugh 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? -----Original Message-----
 ? From: Personal_Submersibles
  [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 ? On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
 ? Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
 ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
 ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 ? 
 ? Scott,
 ? No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost
 some
  of? money.? I have
  made? many and the tendency seems to be, to try and
  make them? strong to
  lift a? lot.? Well first off, I think it was
 Vance
  that said it? best.? A
  manipulator? is for manipulating not lifting.?
 With
  that in mind,? large
  components are? not needed.? Simple air cylinders
 from
  ebay are? all that is
  needed.? A 2in? bore and depending on manip
 design,
  4in stroke, maybe as
  much as 6in stroke? is all you need.? Keep the
 rod
  size small at 5/8, that
  reduces the back? pressure.? I have said it
 before, I
  love convertible? top
  pumps.? Consider? using one pump per function
 again
  purchase from ebay for
  125? bucks.? No need? for valves, the pump
 simply
  runs in reverse to change
  direction of the? piston. Keep the pumps inside the
 sub
  and it is real
  simple.? As for the arm? itself, if have made
 them
  from cardboard first.?
  You? can mock it up that way? and find the best
  pin locations for the
  cylinders and ensure? the? cylinders?
 stroke
  properly without over
  centering. You can build the? arm with square?
  tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
  so the cylinders fit inside when? the arm is?
  folded up.? Forget about a
  wrist until you have lots of? time to play around.
 ? Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be
  built? for under 1,000
  dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play
  with? if you like.
 ? Hank
 ? --------------------------------------------
 ? On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 ? wrote:
 ? 
  ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
  ? Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
  ? 
  ? Hey guys. I am
  ? still working on the manipulator arm project for
  the? K? boats. I am a
  little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head.
 I?
  really don't know where
  to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does
  anyone? have any pointers as
  to where? to start? I am thinking about using
  electric? motors rather? than
  hydrolics just because of the amount of external?
  operating
  peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
  ? 
  ? 
  ? 
  ? Sent
  ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
  ? 
  ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  ? 
  ? _______________________________________________
  ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  ? 
 ? 
 ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
 version
  of? virus
  signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
 ? 
 ? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 ? 
 ? http://www.eset.com
  ? 
  ? 
 ? 
 ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
 version
  of? virus
  signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
 ? 
 ? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 ? 
 ? http://www.eset.com
  ? 
 ? 
 ? 
 ? _______________________________________________
 ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 ?
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 ? 
  
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  database 9867 (20140529) __________
  
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 ? 
  
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 ? 
  
  
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 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 13:28:56 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 12:28:56 -0500
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
Message-ID: <oui2akpwqwb6n2hn2kggdqfv.1401470888679@email.android.com>

Great. Thanks Hank. The joy sticks are electric and not hydrolic valves right?
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphonehank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Scott,
The arm is controlled with two joy sticks from, you guessed it ebay.? Also there are? two,two way toggle switches that control the hand and rotation. I would hate to pick up a gold bar and drop it because I bumped a joy stick. I can take a picture for you later today.
Hank --------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/30/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Friday, May 30, 2014, 11:40 AM

Hank,Do
you have any detailed pictures of the controller for the
manipulator? How is the controller arranged in the
submarine?Thanks,Scott
Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hugh,
The wrist movement on Gamma is about 345 degrees and is
accomplished with a single vane motor so to speak.? I
did not build that arm, so I am not sure where that part
came from.? I think it is a custom piece.? 
Outside the wrist and hand, copying that arm is the way to
go for psubbers.? That arm is very light and robust,
also simple to build.? The hand could be replicated
with two small 1 in bore cylinders instead of the way it is
now.? Right now the hand and wrist are quite
complicated to build for the average guy on a budget.?

Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? To: "'Personal Submersibles General
Discussion'"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 7:09 PM
? 
? Thanks Hank, great info. And the arms
? on your project page look pretty
? smart.? What was the wrist movement and how is that
? accomplished.? Was it
? continual rotation or 180 degree.
? I see that Hydrolek uses a gerotor.? We need a Psubs
? project to do a manip.
? Maybe a good subject for the next meeting.?
? Cheers,? Hugh 
? 
? 
? 
? -----Original Message-----
? From: Personal_Submersibles
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
? On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
? Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 9:25 a.m.
? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? 
? Hi Hugh,
? The convertible top pumps are about the same size as a
wind
? shield wiper
? motor.? They are quite small actually.? I would
? say the motor is about 2.5in
? dia and 6in tall.? They develop 1,000 psi, at least
the
? one I tested did.? I
? have only used GM pumps, but I am sure they are all the
same
? more less. Also
? I have had good success with a common snow plow hyd
? pump.? You will need a
? hyd valve bank if you use the snow plow pump.? The
? beauty of a top pump is
? that you do not need a valve bank. Gamma has an aircraft
? pump that according
? to the maintenance records works best at 1,100 psi when at
? max depth of
? 1,000 feet.
? That means you only need about 650psi above bottom for the
? arm to work.? I
? have the pressure set at 500 psi for shop testing and it
? seems good already
? at that pressure.? 
? 
? Hank
? --------------------------------------------
? On Thu, 5/29/14, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? To: "'Personal Submersibles General
Discussion'"
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? Received: Thursday, May 29, 2014, 4:36 PM
? 
? Hank,
? That seems like very good advice.? I am wanting
to do
? a? manipulator but
? need? to get some idea of what lifting or forces are
? required.
? What are the pumps you have found to work
best.?
? What? pressure do they
? develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it
? and? came up with
? breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself
? so? chased down some
? more and found that they are for convertible cars. They
? look? a bit on the
? large side diameter wise.? Any brand best??
Cheers,?
? Hugh 
? 
? 
? -----Original Message-----
? From: Personal_Submersibles
? [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
? On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
? Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? 
? Scott,
? No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost
some
? of? money.? I have
? made? many and the tendency seems to be, to try and
? make them? strong to
? lift a? lot.? Well first off, I think it was
Vance
? that said it? best.? A
? manipulator? is for manipulating not lifting.?
With
? that in mind,? large
? components are? not needed.? Simple air cylinders
from
? ebay are? all that is
? needed.? A 2in? bore and depending on manip
design,
? 4in stroke, maybe as
? much as 6in stroke? is all you need.? Keep the
rod
? size small at 5/8, that
? reduces the back? pressure.? I have said it
before, I
? love convertible? top
? pumps.? Consider? using one pump per function
again
? purchase from ebay for
? 125? bucks.? No need? for valves, the pump
simply
? runs in reverse to change
? direction of the? piston. Keep the pumps inside the
sub
? and it is real
? simple.? As for the arm? itself, if have made
them
? from cardboard first.?
? You? can mock it up that way? and find the best
? pin locations for the
? cylinders and ensure? the? cylinders?
stroke
? properly without over
? centering. You can build the? arm with square?
? tubing, use 3 inch aluminum
? so the cylinders fit inside when? the arm is?
? folded up.? Forget about a
? wrist until you have lots of? time to play around.
? Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be
? built? for under 1,000
? dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play
? with? if you like.
? Hank
? --------------------------------------------
? On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
? <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? wrote:
? 
? ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
? ? Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
? ? 
? ? Hey guys. I am
? ? still working on the manipulator arm project for
? the? K? boats. I am a
? little overwhelmed as to what direction to? head.
I?
? really don't know where
? to start because of my? lack of knolwedge. Does
? anyone? have any pointers as
? to where? to start? I am thinking about using
? electric? motors rather? than
? hydrolics just because of the amount of external?
? operating
? peices.?Thanks,Scott? Waters
? ? 
? ? 
? ? 
? ? Sent
? ? from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
? ? 
? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
? ? 
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? ?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? ? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? ? 
? 
? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
version
? of? virus
? signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
? 
? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
? 
? http://www.eset.com
? ? 
? ? 
? 
? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
version
? of? virus
? signature? database 9862 (20140528) __________
? 
? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
? 
? http://www.eset.com
? ? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
?
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 
? 
? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
of
? virus signature
? database 9866 (20140529) __________
? 
? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
? 
? http://www.eset.com
? ? 
? 
? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
of
? virus signature
? database 9867 (20140529) __________
? 
? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
? 
? http://www.eset.com
? 
? 
? 
? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version
of
? virus signature
? database 9867 (20140529) __________
? 
? The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
? 
? http://www.eset.com
? 
? 
? 
? _______________________________________________
? Personal_Submersibles mailing list
? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
? 

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 22:21:45 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 19:21:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
References: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

All,
would this idea for rotating the gripper have merit. (See attachment.)
It is simple & can give 90 degrees + of rotation. (would you need more?)
The piston pulls a bolt in a rod down an angled slot in a pipe, turning the rod & gripper.
Ignore the gripper on the end, it's just for show & doesn't have a closing mechanism.
Alan


________________________________
 From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 12:36 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 


Hank,
That would be great. So on a four function would you have eight penetrations or four penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members.

My address is:
Scott Waters
3213 Arnold Ave
Bldg 122
Salina, KS 67401

Thank you,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
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Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Fri May 30 23:53:05 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 21:53:05 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
 <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53895221.80003@telus.net>

Full continuous rotation isn't that complicated, other than one part
which needs be machined with O-ring grooves, oil channels and a shaft
connection (taper, spline or keyway).  Use a small hydraulic motor
connected to the end of the arm, recessed into an outer slip ring.  The
motor can be connected traditionally with hoses for supply and return. 
The inner slip ring connects to the motor shaft and seals to the outer
slip ring with o-rings.  For a wrist with only one function downstream
(jaw open and close), you'll need three O-rings, creating two oil
channels in between.   If you need more functions, just keep adding
channels / o-rings.  If you secure the inner slip ring to the motor
shaft with a nut, that central cavity in the inner slip ring can become
the cylinder that operates the jaw - just drop a cap over it to seal it
off from the motor shaft, and install a piston and outer cap.  Then
plumbing the cylinder is as simple as drilling a hole through the inner
slip ring, connecting each end of the cylinder cavity to its
corresponding oil channel on the outside.

Sean


On 2014-05-30 20:21, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> All,
> would this idea for rotating the gripper have merit. (See attachment.)
> It is simple & can give 90 degrees + of rotation. (would you need more?)
> The piston pulls a bolt in a rod down an angled slot in a pipe,
> turning the rod & gripper.
> Ignore the gripper on the end, it's just for show & doesn't have a
> closing mechanism.
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* swaters via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Sent:* Friday, May 30, 2014 12:36 PM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
>
> Hank,
> That would be great. So on a four function would you have eight
> penetrations or four penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not
> to expensive (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members.
>
> My address is:
> Scott Waters
> 3213 Arnold Ave
> Bldg 122
> Salina, KS 67401
>
> Thank you,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 31 00:04:36 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 22:04:36 -0600
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <53895221.80003@telus.net>
References: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
 <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <53895221.80003@telus.net>
Message-ID: <538954D4.8030705@telus.net>

A picture is worth a thousand words, so please find attached a drawing
of something similar.  This is not a ROV manipulator, but rather a
concept drawing I did many years ago for a controllable pitch mechanism
for a low speed wind turbine, but the idea is the same.  The drawing
shows only the inner slip ring.  The outer one would be smooth on the
inside, with oil delivered at the appropriate locations via hoses
plumbed to the outside, and in this particular case, the inner ring has
a taper for mating to a tapered shaft on the drive motor.

Sean


On 2014-05-30 21:53, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> Full continuous rotation isn't that complicated, other than one part
> which needs be machined with O-ring grooves, oil channels and a shaft
> connection (taper, spline or keyway).  Use a small hydraulic motor
> connected to the end of the arm, recessed into an outer slip ring. 
> The motor can be connected traditionally with hoses for supply and
> return.  The inner slip ring connects to the motor shaft and seals to
> the outer slip ring with o-rings.  For a wrist with only one function
> downstream (jaw open and close), you'll need three O-rings, creating
> two oil channels in between.   If you need more functions, just keep
> adding channels / o-rings.  If you secure the inner slip ring to the
> motor shaft with a nut, that central cavity in the inner slip ring can
> become the cylinder that operates the jaw - just drop a cap over it to
> seal it off from the motor shaft, and install a piston and outer cap. 
> Then plumbing the cylinder is as simple as drilling a hole through the
> inner slip ring, connecting each end of the cylinder cavity to its
> corresponding oil channel on the outside.
>
> Sean

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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 31 06:22:54 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 03:22:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <53895221.80003@telus.net>
References: <k5jkggn7desakfhtx8q73eki.1401410147659@email.android.com>
 <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <53895221.80003@telus.net>
Message-ID: <1401531774.18474.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Sean,?
I think I've got it.
I've attached a couple of drawings; but they aren't showing the o-rings & oil channels in the rotary joints.
The dark green ring is attached to the body of the hydraulic motor & has the hydraulic lines attached for operating
the gripper.
The next silver ring is bolted to the motor's shaft & rotates with it, as does everything else left of it.
The next red section is the cylinder that encompasses the piston for gripper operation.
The last silver section is the cylinder end. There are through bolts to the first silver section.
One hydraulic line feeds in to an inner channel on the face of the first slip ring, which is encompassed by o-rings & feeds?
oil through to the right side of the hydraulic cylinder.
The next hydraulic line feeds in to the outer channel, which has a hole drilled horizontally through this slip ring & the length of the
red cylinder wall exiting in to the left end of the cylinder.
I'm sure there are lots of iterations you could come up with based on this.
Alan
?


________________________________
 From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 


Full continuous rotation isn't that complicated, other than one part which needs be machined with O-ring grooves, oil channels and a shaft connection (taper, spline or keyway).? Use a small hydraulic motor connected to the end of the arm, recessed into an outer slip ring.? The motor can be connected traditionally with hoses for supply and return.? The inner slip ring connects to the motor shaft and seals to the outer slip ring with o-rings.? For a wrist with only one function downstream (jaw open and close), you'll need three O-rings, creating two oil channels in between. ? If you need more functions, just keep adding channels / o-rings.? If you secure the inner slip ring to the motor shaft with a nut, that central cavity in the inner slip ring can become the cylinder that operates the jaw - just drop a cap over it to seal it off from the motor shaft, and install a piston and outer cap.? Then plumbing the cylinder is as simple as drilling a hole
 through the inner slip ring, connecting each end of the cylinder cavity to its corresponding oil channel on the outside.

Sean


On 2014-05-30 20:21, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:


>
>
>All,
>would this idea for rotating the gripper have merit. (See attachment.)
>It is simple & can give 90 degrees + of rotation. (would you need more?)
>The piston pulls a bolt in a rod down an angled slot in a pipe, turning the rod & gripper.
>Ignore the gripper on the end, it's just for show & doesn't have a closing mechanism.
>Alan
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
>Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 12:36 PM
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
> 
>
>
>Hank,
>That would be great. So on a four function would you have eight penetrations or four penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members.
>
>
>My address is:
>Scott Waters
>3213 Arnold Ave
>Bldg 122
>Salina, KS 67401
>
>
>Thank you,
>Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
>_______________________________________________
>Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles 


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 31 08:27:15 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 05:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1401539235.95634.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Alan,
I would say that has merit, it is real simple and low cost. 
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/30/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Friday, May 30, 2014, 10:21 PM
 
 All,would
 this idea for rotating the gripper have merit. (See
 attachment.)It
 is simple & can give 90 degrees + of rotation. (would
 you need more?)The
 piston pulls a bolt in a rod down an angled slot in a pipe,
 turning the rod & gripper.Ignore
 the gripper on the end, it's just for show &
 doesn't have a closing mechanism.Alan
       
  From: swaters via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To:
 personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
  Sent: Friday,
 May 30, 2014 12:36 PM
  Subject:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    
 Hank,That would be great. So on a four
 function would you have eight penetrations or four
 penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive
 (under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members.
 My address is:Scott
 Waters3213 Arnold AveBldg
  122Salina, KS 67401
 Thank you,Scott
 Waters
 
 
 
 Sent
 from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 
 
     
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 Personal_Submersibles mailing list
 Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 


From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sat May 31 23:04:57 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 20:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <1401539235.95634.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1401502905.97063.YahooMailNeo@web120903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <1401539235.95634.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1401591897.98009.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Hank,
I am not sure how detrimental it would be reducing your self to 90 degrees of rotation.
Vance might be able to answer that.
Alan



________________________________
 From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 

Alan,
I would say that has merit, it is real simple and low cost. 
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5/30/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Friday, May 30, 2014, 10:21 PM

All,would
this idea for rotating the gripper have merit. (See
attachment.)It
is simple & can give 90 degrees + of rotation. (would
you need more?)The
piston pulls a bolt in a rod down an angled slot in a pipe,
turning the rod & gripper.Ignore
the gripper on the end, it's just for show &
doesn't have a closing mechanism.Alan
? ? ? 
? From: swaters via
Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
? To:
personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
? Sent: Friday,
May 30, 2014 12:36 PM
? Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
? ? 
Hank,That would be great. So on a four
function would you have eight penetrations or four
penetrations? My goal is to make a good and not to expensive
(under $2000) manipulator arm for psub members.
My address is:Scott
Waters3213 Arnold AveBldg
? 122Salina, KS 67401
Thank you,Scott
Waters



Sent
from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone 
_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


? ? 
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----




_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles


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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 21:55:24 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 18:55:24 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <C5D0861D-F009-4058-89BC-DCA05CDBD9A7@AOL.com>
References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
 <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>
 <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com>
 <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com>
 <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <C5D0861D-F009-4058-89BC-DCA05CDBD9A7@AOL.com>
Message-ID: <76FE4FD57DFF4FBFA190975900B6337C@PhillPC>

Vance, if you hit the lottery, P1202 is sitting in our boneyard waiting for you!
Phil

From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 1:17 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Cc: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

If I hit the Florida lottery, my first stop will be to write the check for PC-1201. Would that be sweet, or what? Mind you, at 15,500 pounds, we'll have to make some different launch and recovery plans.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 1, 2014, at 4:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


  Gamma, needs a big brother



  On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:59:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:




  Me, too.
  Vance

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


    Vance,
    Talk about the good old days!  I would love to get one of the old Perry subs.  I would be all over that like white on rice.
    Hank



    On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:




    Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know.
    Vance
    Sent from my iPhone

    > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    > 
    > Hank,
    > That seems like very good advice.  I am wanting to do a manipulator but need
    > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
    > What are the pumps you have found to work best.  What pressure do they
    > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with
    > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some
    > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the
    > large side diameter wise.  Any brand best?  Cheers,  Hugh 
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
    > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
    > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
    > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
    > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    > 
    > Scott,
    > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.  I have made
    > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a
    > lot.  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.  A manipulator
    > is for manipulating not lifting.  With that in mind, large components are
    > not needed.  Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all that is needed.  A 2in
    > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
    > is all you need.  Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back
    > pressure.  I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.  Consider
    > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.  No need
    > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
    > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.  As for the arm
    > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.  You can mock it up that way
    > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the  cylinders
    > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square
    > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
    > folded up.  Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
    > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000
    > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
    > Hank
    > --------------------------------------------
    > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
    > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    > 
    > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
    > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
    > 
    > Hey guys. I am
    > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K  boats. I am a
    > little overwhelmed as to what direction to  head. I really don't know where
    > to start because of my  lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as
    > to where  to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather  than
    > hydrolics just because of the amount of external  operating
    > peices. Thanks,Scott  Waters
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Sent
    > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
    > 
    > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
    > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
    > 
    > 
    > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
    > database 9862 (20140528) __________
    > 
    > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
    > 
    > http://www.eset.com/
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
    > database 9862 (20140528) __________
    > 
    > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
    > 
    > http://www.eset.com/
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
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    > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

    _______________________________________________
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    Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
    http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



    _______________________________________________
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  _______________________________________________
  Personal_Submersibles mailing list
  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles




  _______________________________________________
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  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Sun May 25 23:20:47 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 20:20:47 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
In-Reply-To: <1401676920.95754.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <09w0t9a1jjrvba1a54e81x1x.1401326947504@email.android.com>
 <1401366044.51794.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <53879a56.e6c3440a.40f3.6085@mx.google.com>
 <4FABAE12-4916-4B52-8671-7DA72A654BC6@AOL.com>
 <1401652618.14242.YahooMailNeo@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <268D79B6-E94E-4A7E-B862-26469AB7FC3F@AOL.com>
 <1401652977.80663.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
 <C5D0861D-F009-4058-89BC-DCA05CDBD9A7@AOL.com>
 <76FE4FD57DFF4FBFA190975900B6337C@PhillPC>
 <1401676920.95754.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0DEF173BC0234646BB321C0A557DCBB9@PhillPC>

Hi, Hank,
To Vance ? by God ? Bradley, very little is off limits as far as I?m concerned!! 
Cheers
Phil

From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 7:42 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

I thought the subs in the bone yard were off limits?
Hank



On Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:32:43 PM, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:




Vance, if you hit the lottery, P1202 is sitting in our boneyard waiting for you!
Phil

From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 1:17 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Cc: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

If I hit the Florida lottery, my first stop will be to write the check for PC-1201. Would that be sweet, or what? Mind you, at 15,500 pounds, we'll have to make some different launch and recovery plans.
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 1, 2014, at 4:02 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


  Gamma, needs a big brother



  On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:59:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:




  Me, too.
  Vance

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jun 1, 2014, at 3:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


    Vance,
    Talk about the good old days!  I would love to get one of the old Perry subs.  I would be all over that like white on rice.
    Hank



    On Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:40:36 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:




    Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know.
    Vance
    Sent from my iPhone

    > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    > 
    > Hank,
    > That seems like very good advice.  I am wanting to do a manipulator but need
    > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
    > What are the pumps you have found to work best.  What pressure do they
    > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with
    > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some
    > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the
    > large side diameter wise.  Any brand best?  Cheers,  Hugh 
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
    > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
    > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
    > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
    > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    > 
    > Scott,
    > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.  I have made
    > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a
    > lot.  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.  A manipulator
    > is for manipulating not lifting.  With that in mind, large components are
    > not needed.  Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all that is needed.  A 2in
    > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
    > is all you need.  Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back
    > pressure.  I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.  Consider
    > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.  No need
    > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
    > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.  As for the arm
    > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.  You can mock it up that way
    > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the  cylinders
    > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square
    > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
    > folded up.  Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
    > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000
    > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
    > Hank
    > --------------------------------------------
    > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
    > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    > 
    > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
    > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
    > 
    > Hey guys. I am
    > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K  boats. I am a
    > little overwhelmed as to what direction to  head. I really don't know where
    > to start because of my  lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as
    > to where  to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather  than
    > hydrolics just because of the amount of external  operating
    > peices. Thanks,Scott  Waters
    > 
    > 
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From personal_submersibles at psubs.org  Mon May 26 22:06:40 2014
From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 19:06:40 -0700
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201
In-Reply-To: <a857c.22521487.40be7d36@aol.com>
References: <a857c.22521487.40be7d36@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6D6C42AA702A4711A667E95955E7D786@PhillPC>

Hi, Hank,
The Vancouver area phone number belongs to an ex-dentist named Jon ? I believe that UVI stands for U/w Vehicles Inc. I know him from a couple of decades ago when he and his partner (Jerry Benson ? since deceased) wanted to rep the ?Sea Urchin?. To say it didn?t work out would be an understatement. They got crossways with a number of vehicle owners by listing a spec sheet and picture of a sub without the owners knowledge and/or authorization and when someone asked the price, they would then contact the owner and tell him that they had someone who wanted to buy the owners sub . . and would turn the ?hot buyer? over to the owner once a suitable commission had been established. I was pissed at them offering DeepWorkers, Newtsuits, etc., without our permission ? Jim MacFarlane at ISE  had some of his work-class ROV?s listed by them without permission and threatened to sue them. Mind you, this was all a number of years ago, so UVI may be pure as the driven snow these days ? be interesting to know if the actual owner of PC1202 has hired them to flog it  or ???? Vance, any imput on this?
Phil 

From: via Personal_Submersibles 
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 6:21 PM
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Perry 1201

Here it is:
http://www.sub-find.com/perry-1201-submarine.html
Jim

In a message dated 6/2/2014 8:08:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
  Vance,
  The Perry 1201 is for sale in Florida, I am sure you know that but the interesting thing is the seller contact number is in the Vancouver area.
  Hank



  On Monday, June 2, 2014 8:59:40 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:




  They were ALL built in house for the manned subs, as far as I know. 
  Vance



  -----Original Message-----
  From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:36 pm
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm


  Ok. I have a feeling I will go through many revisions. Did Perry ever build their own manipulators or were they always outsourced?
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters




  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

  via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
  Scott, 


  I think it will be simpler than that, even.  All done by valves in the pneumatic version. Purely mechanical and air. Then an upgrade could be made to hydraulics with the same system if someone wanted. I should have some drawings for you by Bellingham. Maybe sooner if I can find my pencils.


  Vance



  -----Original Message-----
  From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 5:21 pm
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm


  Scott,
  You may have an opportunity here.  You can offer an arm in pneumatic or hydraulic.  The arm will be exactly the same, just install hyd valves instead of air valves.  Brilliant!  Even the same wiring harness will work.  More brilliant!   :-)
  Hank



  On Monday, June 2, 2014 4:43:35 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:




  Scott, 


  I don't, as it happens, but I could do a sketch. Meanwhile, I'll inquire about the possibility of doing a little cloning project on the real thing.


  Vance



  -----Original Message-----
  From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 2:15 pm
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm


  Vance,
  Do you have any pictures of it?
  Thanks,
  Scott Waters




  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

  via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

  Scott,


  Looking at Schilling, etc., is instructive, but rather like watching those shows on cable television where young couples are trying to decide whether to buy a five hundred and eighty-five thousand dollar house or a six hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollar house, neither of which they can afford. 


  What we really need (in my opinion) is something simpler. Think mobile gripper to start with. I know of a lightweight three-function pneumatic arm (shoulder left-right/up-down and gripper) that worked fine. It was designed to be easy on the pocketbook and simple to use/maintain. Valves, tubing, three pistons, some smallish diameter aluminum pipe, and a few brackets to build. Not a bad place to start.


  Vance 



  -----Original Message-----
  From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Sent: Mon, Jun 2, 2014 9:26 am
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm


  Thanks Alan!
  -Scott Waters




  Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

  Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

  Scott,
  here is a link to the Schilling manipulator manuals.
  www.fmctechnologies.com/en/SchillingRobotics/Technical-Manuals.aspx
  Very scary. They are the rolls royce of manipulator.
  Usually near the end of these 500 page pdfs there
  are various gripper drawings with measurements
  that would be a good basis for gripper design.
  Alan

  Sent from my iPad

  On 2/06/2014, at 11:37 am, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


    Thanks for the info Vance. I am starting to get a idea of some direction for a psubs manipulator.
    Thanks,
    Scott Waters




    Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone

    Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    Hytorc makes a good line of robust, self-contained continuous duty pumps, most adjustable from 1500 to 10000 psi. The.120 volt units we used had a universal motor so could be run on straight off the main buss. We set them up with an accumulator pre- charged to 1000 psi and a pressure switch set 1000 to 1500 psi. This supplied pressure to a double bank (6 each) of Parker-Hannifen solenoids controlled with their own 12 volt tap. Twelve solenoids gave us control for two manipulators, plus rudder and dive planes (with some variance depending on the sub). All of this was mounted internally. Eventually, perry went to external compensated pump/solenoid boxes for the manipulators, but by then the subs were up in the one point five to three million dollar range. The resultant increased budget and their growing experience with work class ROVs made that practical. All the later boats were set up with the external package, as far as I know.
    Vance
    Sent from my iPhone

    > On May 29, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    > 
    > Hank,
    > That seems like very good advice.  I am wanting to do a manipulator but need
    > to get some idea of what lifting or forces are required.
    > What are the pumps you have found to work best.  What pressure do they
    > develop? I had no idea what a top pump was so googled it and came up with
    > breast pumps!! I didn't want to make a tit of myself so chased down some
    > more and found that they are for convertible cars. They look a bit on the
    > large side diameter wise.  Any brand best?  Cheers,  Hugh 
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
    > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
    > Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014 12:21 a.m.
    > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
    > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    > 
    > Scott,
    > No matter how you do it, a manipulator will cost some of money.  I have made
    > many and the tendency seems to be, to try and make them strong to lift a
    > lot.  Well first off, I think it was Vance that said it best.  A manipulator
    > is for manipulating not lifting.  With that in mind, large components are
    > not needed.  Simple air cylinders from ebay are  all that is needed.  A 2in
    > bore and depending on manip design, 4in stroke, maybe as much as 6in stroke
    > is all you need.  Keep the rod size small at 5/8, that reduces the back
    > pressure.  I have said it before, I love convertible top pumps.  Consider
    > using one pump per function again purchase from ebay for 125 bucks.  No need
    > for valves, the pump simply runs in reverse to change direction of the
    > piston. Keep the pumps inside the sub and it is real simple.  As for the arm
    > itself, if have made them from cardboard first.  You can mock it up that way
    > and find the best pin locations for the cylinders and ensure the  cylinders
    > stroke properly without over centering. You can build the arm with square
    > tubing, use 3 inch aluminum so the cylinders fit inside when the arm is
    > folded up.  Forget about a wrist until you have lots of time to play around.
    > Four functions will serve a psubber well and can be built for under 1,000
    > dollars. I can send you a convertible top pump to play with if you like.
    > Hank
    > --------------------------------------------
    > On Wed, 5/28/14, swaters via Personal_Submersibles
    > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
    > 
    > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
    > Received: Wednesday, May 28, 2014, 9:31 PM
    > 
    > Hey guys. I am
    > still working on the manipulator arm project for the K  boats. I am a
    > little overwhelmed as to what direction to  head. I really don't know where
    > to start because of my  lack of knolwedge. Does anyone have any pointers as
    > to where  to start? I am thinking about using electric motors rather  than
    > hydrolics just because of the amount of external  operating
    > peices. Thanks,Scott  Waters
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Sent
    > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone
    > 
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