From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 1 20:03:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 17:03:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane Message-ID: <1409616225.82369.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Big dive day today revealed that the dive plane on Gamma is not very effective. It takes a lot of speed to work, makes sense. I am thinking a thruster at the end of the dive plane might be beneficial. I am planning a dive next weekend to look at the Anscomb ferry that sank in Kootenay lake. The bottom of the ship is about 200 feet or a bit less maybe. Onward and downward. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 1 20:36:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 17:36:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane In-Reply-To: <1409616225.82369.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1409616225.82369.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002601cfc646$016e9b30$044bd190$@telus.net> Hank, This does make sense, control surfaces must have water flowing over them (or attached thrusters) to do anything. Thrusters alone would work unless you are gliding the sub up or down, then dive planes would do the trick. Would you upload a photo or two so that we can see how they are installed? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-01-14 5:04 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane Big dive day today revealed that the dive plane on Gamma is not very effective. It takes a lot of speed to work, makes sense. I am thinking a thruster at the end of the dive plane might be beneficial. I am planning a dive next weekend to look at the Anscomb ferry that sank in Kootenay lake. The bottom of the ship is about 200 feet or a bit less maybe. Onward and downward. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 1 21:18:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 18:18:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane In-Reply-To: <002601cfc646$016e9b30$044bd190$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1409620724.45975.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim, There is one dive plane mounted at the top of the hull just behind the arm. In the fourth picture you posted from the convention you can see the mount just above and behind the top of the arm. There is a rod extending from under the deck that controls the plane. The dive plane is smaller than the one on Delta and also smaller than the original on Gamma. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/1/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Monday, September 1, 2014, 8:36 PM Hank, This does make sense, control surfaces must have water flowing over them (or attached thrusters) to do anything.? Thrusters alone would work unless you are gliding the sub up or down, then dive planes would do the trick. Would you upload a photo or two so that we can see how they are installed? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-01-14 5:04 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane Big dive day today revealed that the dive plane on Gamma is not very effective.? It takes a lot of speed to work, makes sense.? I am thinking a thruster at the end of the dive plane might be beneficial.? I am planning a dive next weekend to look at the Anscomb ferry that sank in Kootenay lake. The bottom of the ship is about 200 feet or a bit less maybe. Onward and downward. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 1 22:04:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane In-Reply-To: <1409620724.45975.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1409620724.45975.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D19469530359D0-2694-1811A@webmail-va045.sysops.aol.com> Hank, The Delta dive plane was moved up for three reasons. 1-to keep it from getting beat up on the surface, 2-to get it out of the pilot's line of sight, and 3-to have more room and make it bigger. It definitely works better. As a side note, the control lever/penetration arrangement is exactly the same on Delta, with the only real difference being the angle of attack and the upward swept extension rod to the dive plane lever. It's a fix you could do, and might save you having to fool around with thrusters. Then again, if you are going to be messing around with wrecks...well, fine adjustments at slow and no speed are a very good thing in my experience. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Sep 1, 2014 9:19 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane Tim, There is one dive plane mounted at the top of the hull just behind the arm. In the fourth picture you posted from the convention you can see the mount just above and behind the top of the arm. There is a rod extending from under the deck that controls the plane. The dive plane is smaller than the one on Delta and also smaller than the original on Gamma. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/1/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Monday, September 1, 2014, 8:36 PM Hank, This does make sense, control surfaces must have water flowing over them (or attached thrusters) to do anything. Thrusters alone would work unless you are gliding the sub up or down, then dive planes would do the trick. Would you upload a photo or two so that we can see how they are installed? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-01-14 5:04 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane Big dive day today revealed that the dive plane on Gamma is not very effective. It takes a lot of speed to work, makes sense. I am thinking a thruster at the end of the dive plane might be beneficial. I am planning a dive next weekend to look at the Anscomb ferry that sank in Kootenay lake. The bottom of the ship is about 200 feet or a bit less maybe. Onward and downward. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 07:19:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 04:19:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane In-Reply-To: <8D19469530359D0-2694-1811A@webmail-va045.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1409656782.7544.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, I plan to dive the hell out of Gamma over the next two months before I do anything. I like the idea of raising the dive plane, and it is easily done. I am still planning to make the dive plane jettisoning. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/1/14, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Monday, September 1, 2014, 10:04 PM Hank, The Delta dive plane was moved up for three reasons. 1-to keep it from getting beat up on the surface, 2-to get it out of the pilot's line of sight, and 3-to have more room and make it bigger. It definitely works better. As a side note, the control lever/penetration arrangement is exactly the same on Delta, with the only real difference being the angle of attack and the upward swept extension rod to the dive plane lever. It's a fix you could do, and might save you having to fool around with thrusters. Then again, if you are going to be messing around with wrecks...well, fine adjustments at slow and no speed are a ?very good thing in my experience. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Sep 1, 2014 9:19 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane Tim, There is one dive plane mounted at the top of the hull just behind the arm. In the fourth picture you posted from the convention you can see the mount just above and behind the top of the arm. There is a rod extending from under the deck that controls the plane. The dive plane is smaller than the one on Delta and also smaller than the original on Gamma. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/1/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Monday, September 1, 2014, 8:36 PM Hank, This does make sense, control surfaces must have water flowing over them (or attached thrusters) to do anything.? Thrusters alone would work unless you are gliding the sub up or down, then dive planes would do the trick. Would you upload a photo or two so that we can see how they are installed? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-01-14 5:04 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive plane Big dive day today revealed that the dive plane on Gamma is not very effective.? It takes a lot of speed to work, makes sense.? I am thinking a thruster at the end of the dive plane might be beneficial.? I am planning a dive next weekend to look at the Anscomb ferry that sank in Kootenay lake. The bottom of the ship is about 200 feet or a bit less maybe. Onward and downward. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 15:17:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:17:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sport Sub In-Reply-To: <20140829105413.1E8D816B@m0074915.ppops.net> References: <20140829105413.1E8D816B@m0074915.ppops.net> Message-ID: <002b01cfc6e2$8f899220$ae9cb660$@telus.net> Looks pretty good, Brian. Shelley did not realize that you were videoing the discussion. She suggests that you make it more obvious that that is your intent. No worries, though. Note the following Youtube vids of the SportSub in the water for its shake-down dives. A few leaks can be noticed. Hopefully they are now sealed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvz5tEC7Qy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drFatIHqG9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM9QDv0JaDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIoGhDKOQc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmyA5oUvkdk Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: August-29-14 10:54 AM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sport Sub Trying to get more video up, I have some of the Sport Sub , the clip I tried to put up was too long so it kicked it back. I thought that YouTube had extended the 10 min max rule but I guess not. I'll make the Sport Sub into two parts. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 15:30:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:30:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sport Sub Message-ID: <20140902123029.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d1c6eed0ed.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 16:19:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:19:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 17:57:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:57:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: "Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but the idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this idea. Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered races, and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. I'm not suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two events in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would enjoy it equally. Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you think such an idea might fly? Thanks, Alec On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, > Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this > years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where > everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with > > First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) > Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new > members) > Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) > > Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two > choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out > soon. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 18:14:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:14:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140902151402.384F1EA0@m0048141.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 18:15:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:15:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140902151556.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.857b1085bd.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 18:18:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:18:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sport Sub Message-ID: <20140902151813.384F197B@m0048141.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 18:25:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:25:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> ISR is scheduled for June 22-26, 2015 in Bethesda, MD. I agree this might be an interesting excursion however it will require a lot of planning. Note that the submarine race competition is for wet subs only, usually one-man, prone-position, and lightweight fiberglass construction. Whether they have the facilities to support 2-ton steel submarines will have to be researched. I met someone from ISR at Underwater Intervention a few years ago and he was interested in partnering with PSUBS so they may be receptive to the idea. I don't recall his name but it could have been Dave McGee. ISR runs every other year to give time for competitors to build their submarines, so the next opportunity would not be until 2017. I'm in the Keys camp. Great diving opportunity and we know the logistics so it's easy to plan. I forsee this becoming our conference "home" at consistent dates each year so that folks can make better plans to attend. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 2 22:47:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 22:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> Jon, Sign me up for the Keys Camp meet. Will be down there next week, but only to Homestead (for about six weeks). Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Sep 2, 2014 6:26 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 ISR is scheduled for June 22-26, 2015 in Bethesda, MD. I agree this might be an interesting excursion however it will require a lot of planning. Note that the submarine race competition is for wet subs only, usually one-man, prone-position, and lightweight fiberglass construction. Whether they have the facilities to support 2-ton steel submarines will have to be researched. I met someone from ISR at Underwater Intervention a few years ago and he was interested in partnering with PSUBS so they may be receptive to the idea. I don't recall his name but it could have been Dave McGee. ISR runs every other year to give time for competitors to build their submarines, so the next opportunity would not be until 2017. I'm in the Keys camp. Great diving opportunity and we know the logistics so it's easy to plan. I forsee this becoming our conference "home" at consistent dates each year so that folks can make better plans to attend. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 07:15:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 07:15:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I have to agree, taking the Auto-Train down there with Alan and Snoopy was a joyful experience and the hospitality of the Suhr family was unbelievable. I would take Snoopy again in 2015, will be aiming to reach the drop-off this time. I'm aching to get the new sub out there, for the extra freeboard, but I think construction will take until 2016. Alec On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:47 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, > Sign me up for the Keys Camp meet. Will be down there next week, but only > to Homestead (for about six weeks). > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Tue, Sep 2, 2014 6:26 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > > ISR is scheduled for June 22-26, 2015 in Bethesda, MD. I agree this > might be an interesting excursion however it will require a lot of > planning. Note that the submarine race competition is for wet subs > only, usually one-man, prone-position, and lightweight fiberglass > construction. Whether they have the facilities to support 2-ton steel > submarines will have to be researched. I met someone from ISR at > Underwater Intervention a few years ago and he was interested in > partnering with PSUBS so they may be receptive to the idea. I don't > recall his name but it could have been Dave McGee. ISR runs every other > year to give time for competitors to build their submarines, so the next > opportunity would not be until 2017. > > I'm in the Keys camp. Great diving opportunity and we know the > logistics so it's easy to plan. I forsee this becoming our conference > "home" at consistent dates each year so that folks can make better plans > to attend. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 08:00:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 07:00:17 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5BA3BBD2-534F-4905-81A2-3E8BCCE302CE@sbcglobal.net> I am also in the Keys camp. Site was fantastic, Suhr's were unbelievable as Alec notes, and if I can get the mods to the R300 made in time, I would take her again. This time the goal is to dive in the deep blue clear sea. Cliff > On Sep 3, 2014, at 6:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have to agree, taking the Auto-Train down there with Alan and Snoopy was a joyful experience and the hospitality of the Suhr family was unbelievable. I would take Snoopy again in 2015, will be aiming to reach the drop-off this time. I'm aching to get the new sub out there, for the extra freeboard, but I think construction will take until 2016. > > Alec > > >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:47 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, >> Sign me up for the Keys Camp meet. Will be down there next week, but only to Homestead (for about six weeks). >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Tue, Sep 2, 2014 6:26 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 >> >> >> ISR is scheduled for June 22-26, 2015 in Bethesda, MD. I agree this >> might be an interesting excursion however it will require a lot of >> planning. Note that the submarine race competition is for wet subs >> only, usually one-man, prone-position, and lightweight fiberglass >> construction. Whether they have the facilities to support 2-ton steel >> submarines will have to be researched. I met someone from ISR at >> Underwater Intervention a few years ago and he was interested in >> partnering with PSUBS so they may be receptive to the idea. I don't >> recall his name but it could have been Dave McGee. ISR runs every other >> year to give time for competitors to build their submarines, so the next >> opportunity would not be until 2017. >> >> I'm in the Keys camp. Great diving opportunity and we know the >> logistics so it's easy to plan. I forsee this becoming our conference >> "home" at consistent dates each year so that folks can make better plans >> to attend. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 09:35:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 09:35:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <5BA3BBD2-534F-4905-81A2-3E8BCCE302CE@sbcglobal.net> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> <5BA3BBD2-534F-4905-81A2-3E8BCCE302CE@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: May I propose a winter timeframe? The greatest challenge in the subs is the heat. On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I am also in the Keys camp. Site was fantastic, Suhr's were unbelievable > as Alec notes, and if I can get the mods to the R300 made in time, I would > take her again. This time the goal is to dive in the deep blue clear sea. > > Cliff > > > On Sep 3, 2014, at 6:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I have to agree, taking the Auto-Train down there with Alan and Snoopy was > a joyful experience and the hospitality of the Suhr family was > unbelievable. I would take Snoopy again in 2015, will be aiming to reach > the drop-off this time. I'm aching to get the new sub out there, for the > extra freeboard, but I think construction will take until 2016. > > Alec > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:47 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Jon, >> Sign me up for the Keys Camp meet. Will be down there next week, but only >> to Homestead (for about six weeks). >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Sent: Tue, Sep 2, 2014 6:26 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 >> >> >> ISR is scheduled for June 22-26, 2015 in Bethesda, MD. I agree this >> might be an interesting excursion however it will require a lot of >> planning. Note that the submarine race competition is for wet subs >> only, usually one-man, prone-position, and lightweight fiberglass >> construction. Whether they have the facilities to support 2-ton steel >> submarines will have to be researched. I met someone from ISR at >> Underwater Intervention a few years ago and he was interested in >> partnering with PSUBS so they may be receptive to the idea. I don't >> recall his name but it could have been Dave McGee. ISR runs every other >> year to give time for competitors to build their submarines, so the next >> opportunity would not be until 2017. >> >> I'm in the Keys camp. Great diving opportunity and we know the >> logistics so it's easy to plan. I forsee this becoming our conference >> "home" at consistent dates each year so that folks can make better plans >> to attend. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 10:02:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 07:02:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140903070200.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a794004de1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 10:32:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 07:32:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <20140903070200.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a794004de1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1409754748.40857.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> More launch observations, now that I go to the lakes alone, it is important that I can launch and recover with ease. I have eliminated the extendo pole (daughter calls it that). I use a tow strap, it is much easier and acts as a safety because it connects the truck to the trailer before I disconnect. So far I have traveled 5km round trip with one battery bank and a passenger. Next trip is 10 km round trip with no passenger and all batteries installed. Hank Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, September 3, 2014, 10:02 AM I like the idea, but I would not be able to attend. I am building another store and won't be done till after March?1. ? Thanks, Scott? ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: Wed, September 03, 2014 6:35 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion May I propose a winter timeframe? The greatest challenge in the subs is the heat. On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am also in the Keys camp. ?Site was fantastic, ?Suhr's were unbelievable as Alec notes, and if I can get the mods to the R300 made in time, I would take her again. ?This time the goal is to dive in the deep blue clear sea. Cliff On Sep 3, 2014, at 6:15 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have to agree, taking the Auto-Train down there with Alan and Snoopy was a joyful experience and the hospitality of the Suhr family was unbelievable. I would take Snoopy again in 2015, will be aiming to reach the drop-off this time. I'm aching to get the new sub out there, for the extra freeboard, but I think construction will take until 2016. ? Alec On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:47 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, Sign me up for the Keys Camp meet. Will be down there next week, but only to Homestead (for about six weeks). Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Sep 2, 2014 6:26 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 ISR is scheduled for June 22-26, 2015 in Bethesda, MD. I agree this might be an interesting excursion however it will require a lot of planning. Note that the submarine race competition is for wet subs only, usually one-man, prone-position, and lightweight fiberglass construction. Whether they have the facilities to support 2-ton steel submarines will have to be researched. I met someone from ISR at Underwater Intervention a few years ago and he was interested in partnering with PSUBS so they may be receptive to the idea. I don't recall his name but it could have been Dave McGee. ISR runs every other year to give time for competitors to build their submarines, so the next opportunity would not be until 2017. I'm in the Keys camp. Great diving opportunity and we know the logistics so it's easy to plan. I forsee this becoming our conference "home" at consistent dates each year so that folks can make better plans to attend. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 11:13:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:13:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140903081338.38453062@m0005309.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 11:44:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 08:44:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140903084427.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.3c3a3b4b9b.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 11:46:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:46:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <20140903081338.38453062@m0005309.ppops.net> References: <20140903081338.38453062@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <540737D1.1040603@psubs.org> Brian, No reason we can't have a west coast session like we did this year and schedule it in somehow. Do some research into an event site, hotels, dive site, anticipated temps, anticipated costs, and potential dates. Jon On 9/3/2014 11:13 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Oh well, just a thought. Guess I'll keep plugging away out here on > my own. > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:14:02 -0700 > > Scott, You forgot choice number four, the west coast ! I can see if > I'm going to get you guys out to my neck of the woods it will have to > be very enticing ! I don't think you guys realize how good it can be > out here. Granted you usually have to be out at the islands to get > the killer clear water but not always. Santa Barbara can be very good > as far a visibility in the fall. I would like to try and do > something, maybe by 2016 or 17. I was thinking of a Submarine Rodeo. > This would be an event that would challenge everyone's sub to complete > various tasks, like picking up certain objects, maybe rescuing another > sub, negotiating an obstacle course and so forth. I can see I'll > have to have some type of platform or barge to pick up subs out of the > water, since most psubs have very little freeboard and there is the > danger of swamping. It would be nice if the event could generate > money, some of the money could go to a scholarship to the Santa > Barbara Marine Tech dept. possibly, but if there was some extra money > generated maybe that could differ some of the travel costs to get the > subs out here ( I know , I'm dreaming !) But maybe with some sponsors > who knows ? The kelp forests out at Catalina and the other Channel > Island are just amazing ! > Brian > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 11:58:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:58:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <20140903081338.38453062@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1409759895.63721.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I would go to California for sure with Gamma. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9/3/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, September 3, 2014, 11:13 AM Oh well, just a thought.?? Guess I'll keep plugging away out here on my own.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:14:02 -0700 Scott,? You forgot choice number four, the west coast !?? I can see if I'm going to get you guys out to my neck of the woods it will have to be very enticing !?? I don't think you guys realize how good it can be out here.? Granted you usually have to be out at the islands to get the killer clear water but not always. Santa Barbara can be very good as far a visibility in the fall.? I would like to try and do something, maybe by 2016 or 17.? I was thinking of a Submarine Rodeo.? This would be an event that would challenge everyone's sub to complete various tasks, like picking up certain objects, maybe rescuing another sub, negotiating an obstacle course and so forth.?? I can see?I'll have to?have some type of platform or barge?to pick up subs out of the water, since most psubs have very little freeboard and there is the danger of swamping.? It would be nice if the event could generate money, some of the money could go to a scholarship to the Santa Barbara?Marine Tech dept. possibly, but if there was some extra money generated maybe that could differ some of the travel costs to get the subs out here ( I?know , I'm dreaming !)? But maybe with some sponsors who knows???? The kelp forests out at Catalina and the other?Channel Island are just amazing !???Brian??? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: "psubs" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:19:29 -0700 ?Hey guys, Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with ? First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) Scond?choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new members) Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) ? Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out soon. ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 12:00:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:00:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> <5BA3BBD2-534F-4905-81A2-3E8BCCE302CE@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <54073B25.4020305@psubs.org> Realistically that would be Feb-Apr since late year holidays would interfere. Not sure we have time to set something up for 2015 but we could try. I think we should concentrate on off-shore diving and leave seminars for the ISR event or the next year's event. I may be heading down in a couple of weeks and I can scout around for support ships. The Suhr's boat worked, but only for one sub at a time and it was a long ride out and back in (just ask my stomach). Jon On 9/3/2014 9:35 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > May I propose a winter timeframe? The greatest challenge in the subs > is the heat. > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 12:39:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 09:39:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140903093900.384A99C9@m0048137.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 3 12:59:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 09:59:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <54073B25.4020305@psubs.org> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> <5BA3BBD2-534F-4905-81A2-3E8BCCE302CE@sbcglobal.net> <54073B25.4020305@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1409763583.22630.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Winter Psub conference will nice in temperate would preclude me taking my boat as I am in the middle of a fairly major modification. As such, I vote for summer time. We need to Tag with Doug Shur to see if they would be game for hosting again an if so, what time frame would work best. Doug, you up in principal for a another go at hosting Psubs 2015 convention in Islamorada assuming details could be worked out? Regards Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Realistically that would be Feb-Apr since late year holidays would interfere. Not sure we have time to set something up for 2015 but we could try. I think we should concentrate on off-shore diving and leave seminars for the ISR event or the next year's event. I may be heading down in a couple of weeks and I can scout around for support ships. The Suhr's boat worked, but only for one sub at a time and it was a long ride out and back in (just ask my stomach). Jon On 9/3/2014 9:35 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > May I propose a winter timeframe? The greatest challenge in the subs > is the heat. > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 12:10:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:10:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <1409763583.22630.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> <5BA3BBD2-534F-4905-81A2-3E8BCCE302CE@sbcglobal.net> <54073B25.4020305@psubs.org> <1409763583.22630.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, to answer your question, my family and I would be more than happy to assist in hosting another PSUBS convention down in the Florida Keys. We are relatively flexible in terms of scheduling so we could probably work with whatever you guys feel works best for the group. I concur with Jon's assessment that we really need a bigger support vessel for sub ops. than we have with the Whaler. That said, the Whaler is still at our service in whatever way possible. Ideally, a large boat with a free-flying jib boom would be awesome, but I'm afraid that may be a bit wishful for our budget. If I could suggest a compromise though: perhaps a barge (pontoon style) with an open middle and gantry structure for L/R of submersibles. The submersible(s) could be lowered onto the barge via a davit (canalside) and secured for travel. The barge would be maneuvered out of the canal using a small outboard and escorted by the Whaler. Once safely in the bay, the barge could be mated with the Whaler for a relatively speedy tow out to the oceanside. Not only would the barge save transit time, it would allow for safe entry/egress to and from vessels possessing little freeboard with no danger of flooding. The pontoons would need to be kept wide and the submersible(s) low for stability, but I think it could work well if designed and built properly... just an idea. I am also in favor of the other potential convention locales proposed. Woods Hole would be a really neat place to explore (Alvin or no Alvin, in my opinion) and I am always up for a trip out west (Brian Cox). The ISR event also has great potential and is something I would be interested in attending at least once. As scott suggests, it could prove a wonderful opportunity to meet some new and interesting faces, even if it had to be a "dry" convention for us. Could someone who has already attended an ISR event (Alec or Steve perhaps) explain how the human-powered subs are launched? I imagine they are light enough to just pick up and manually set down in the pool, no? ~ Douglas S. On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Winter Psub conference will nice in temperate would preclude me taking my > boat as I am in the middle of a fairly major modification. As such, I vote > for summer time. > > We need to Tag with Doug Shur to see if they would be game for hosting > again an if so, what time frame would work best. > > Doug, you up in principal for a another go at hosting Psubs 2015 > convention in Islamorada assuming details could be worked out? > > Regards > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:00 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > > Realistically that would be Feb-Apr since late year holidays would > interfere. Not sure we have time to set something up for 2015 but we > could try. I think we should concentrate on off-shore diving and leave > seminars for the ISR event or the next year's event. I may be heading > down in a couple of weeks and I can scout around for support ships. The > Suhr's boat worked, but only for one sub at a time and it was a long > ride out and back in (just ask my stomach). > > Jon > > > > > On 9/3/2014 9:35 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > May I propose a winter timeframe? The greatest challenge in the subs > > is the heat. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 12:32:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 09:32:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> <8D195388C262162-1B88-7AD9@webmail-va010.sysops.aol.com> <5BA3BBD2-534F-4905-81A2-3E8BCCE302CE@sbcglobal.net> <54073B25.4020305@psubs.org> <1409763583.22630.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1409848341.98517.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Wonderful! This is early days and we are just exploring options at this point but this sure presents a temping offer in my book. As to barge idea. I think this would work great pretty much as you have outlined and would add great operability to our sub operations. Do you know if there are any work barges around the Islamorada/Keys area that we could rent on a day-rate bases in as opposed to of having to design and build a purpose built barge? Thanks again for the offer. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Cliff, to answer your question, my family and I would be more than happy to assist in hosting another PSUBS convention down in the Florida Keys. We are relatively flexible in terms of scheduling so we could probably work with whatever you guys feel works best for the group. I concur with Jon's assessment that we really need a bigger support vessel for sub ops. than we have with the Whaler. That said, the Whaler is still at our service in whatever way possible. Ideally, a large boat with a free-flying jib boom would be awesome, but I'm afraid that may be a bit wishful for our budget. If I could suggest a compromise though: perhaps a barge (pontoon style) with an open middle and gantry structure for L/R of submersibles. The submersible(s) could be lowered onto the barge via a davit (canalside) and secured for travel. The barge would be maneuvered out of the canal using a small outboard and escorted by the Whaler. Once safely in the bay, the barge could be mated with the Whaler for a relatively speedy tow out to the oceanside. Not only would the barge save transit time, it would allow for safe entry/egress to and from vessels possessing little freeboard with no danger of flooding. The pontoons would need to be kept wide and the submersible(s) low for stability, but I think it could work well if designed and built properly... just an idea. I am also in favor of the other potential convention locales proposed. Woods Hole would be a really neat place to explore (Alvin or no Alvin, in my opinion) and I am always up for a trip out west (Brian Cox). The ISR event also has great potential and is something I would be interested in attending at least once. As scott suggests, it could prove a wonderful opportunity to meet some new and interesting faces, even if it had to be a "dry" convention for us. Could someone who has already attended an ISR event (Alec or Steve perhaps) explain how the human-powered subs are launched? I imagine they are light enough to just pick up and manually set down in the pool, no? ~ Douglas S. On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Winter Psub conference will nice in temperate would preclude me taking my boat as I am in the middle of a fairly major modification. As such, I vote for summer time. > > >We need to Tag with Doug Shur to see if they would be game for hosting again an if so, what time frame would work best. > > >Doug, you up in principal for a another go at hosting Psubs 2015 convention in Islamorada assuming details could be worked out? > > >Regards > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > >From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:00 AM > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > > > >Realistically that would be Feb-Apr since late year holidays would >interfere. Not sure we have time to set something up for 2015 but we >could try. I think we should concentrate on off-shore diving and leave >seminars for the ISR event or the next year's event. I may be heading >down in a couple of weeks and I can scout around for support ships. The >Suhr's boat worked, but only for one sub at a time and it was a long >ride out and back in (just ask my stomach). > >Jon > > > > > > >On 9/3/2014 9:35 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> May I propose a winter timeframe? The greatest challenge in the subs >> is the heat. >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 19:26:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 01:26:30 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ice Bucket Challenge Message-ID: <7C0DE6AC-44C7-426F-AEF6-D4EED2C592EC@upplevelsepresent.se> We did the Ice Bucket Challenge submarine style today. Enjoy! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CufCvs-6ryg Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 19:52:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:52:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ice Bucket Challenge In-Reply-To: <7C0DE6AC-44C7-426F-AEF6-D4EED2C592EC@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1409874752.32925.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Lasse, Fantastic, love it! Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9/4/14, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ice Bucket Challenge To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Received: Thursday, September 4, 2014, 7:26 PM We did the Ice Bucket Challenge submarine style today. Enjoy!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CufCvs-6ryg Lasse SchmidtUpplevelseakutenSkeppsbron 21, Tullhus 111130 Stockholm -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 20:12:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 17:12:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D Printer Message-ID: <1409875934.78993.YahooMailBasic@web161403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> At the risk of starting another concrete sub thread. http://www.totalkustom.com/ Pete From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 21:03:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:03:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Alec, Scott meant the ISR event : ) I sent an email out tonight to test the waters (pun intended). I thought some might find a tour of the test basin and some of the Navy's destructive testing facilities to be interesting (as well as observing the races). I will see what response I get. It might be tricky since this is an active military base but piggy backing on the ISR event might make it doable. Steve On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > "Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but the > idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would > really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and > batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this > idea. > > Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered races, > and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. I'm not > suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two events > in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to > participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and > maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their > attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if > we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic > given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, > the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would > enjoy it equally. > > Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you think > such an idea might fly? > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hey guys, >> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this >> years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where >> everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >> >> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >> challenger) >> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new >> members) >> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >> >> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two >> choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >> soon. >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 21:06:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:06:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <540643E8.60103@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon, I know Dave McGee very well. My discussion will involve 2017 as an option as well. Steve On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ISR is scheduled for June 22-26, 2015 in Bethesda, MD. I agree this might > be an interesting excursion however it will require a lot of planning. > Note that the submarine race competition is for wet subs only, usually > one-man, prone-position, and lightweight fiberglass construction. Whether > they have the facilities to support 2-ton steel submarines will have to be > researched. I met someone from ISR at Underwater Intervention a few years > ago and he was interested in partnering with PSUBS so they may be receptive > to the idea. I don't recall his name but it could have been Dave McGee. > ISR runs every other year to give time for competitors to build their > submarines, so the next opportunity would not be until 2017. > > I'm in the Keys camp. Great diving opportunity and we know the logistics > so it's easy to plan. I forsee this becoming our conference "home" at > consistent dates each year so that folks can make better plans to attend. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 4 21:27:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:27:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: When I made the ISR video, I think we discussed the possibility of bringing Snoopy along and doing some demo dives in the pool. Can't recall exactly with whom, but there was interest. Lets see! At any rate I'd have a really short trip, I'm only about twenty minutes from the facility. Best, Alec On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, Scott meant the ISR event : ) > > I sent an email out tonight to test the waters (pun intended). I thought > some might find a tour of the test basin and some of the Navy's destructive > testing facilities to be interesting (as well as observing the races). > > I will see what response I get. It might be tricky since this is an > active military base but piggy backing on the ISR event might make it > doable. > > > Steve > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> "Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but the >> idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would >> really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and >> batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this >> idea. >> >> Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered races, >> and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. I'm not >> suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two events >> in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to >> participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and >> maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their >> attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if >> we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic >> given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, >> the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would >> enjoy it equally. >> >> Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you think >> such an idea might fly? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hey guys, >>> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this >>> years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where >>> everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >>> >>> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >>> challenger) >>> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for >>> new members) >>> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >>> >>> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two >>> choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >>> soon. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 00:30:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 00:30:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Cliff, Jon and I can both look into vessels available for rent down in the Keys, but I have a strong suspicion that we aren't going to find what we're looking for in a rental boat or barge because of the special requirments. If we were renting, as soon as a mod would be required the deal would be off, but I agree that it is still worth looking into. Meantime, I am considering how dad and I might construct a modular launch and recovery platform that we could trailer down to the Keys next year. Luckily for you and your R-300, you really don't need the services of a barge with the travel range of your rakish boat. My sportsub on the other hand will benefit greatly from a barge. I'm going to try to attach a photo from IVC's site showing a support ship very similar to what I'm talking about. ~ Douglas S. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > When I made the ISR video, I think we discussed the possibility of > bringing Snoopy along and doing some demo dives in the pool. Can't recall > exactly with whom, but there was interest. Lets see! At any rate I'd have a > really short trip, I'm only about twenty minutes from the facility. > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, Scott meant the ISR event : ) >> >> I sent an email out tonight to test the waters (pun intended). I thought >> some might find a tour of the test basin and some of the Navy's destructive >> testing facilities to be interesting (as well as observing the races). >> >> I will see what response I get. It might be tricky since this is an >> active military base but piggy backing on the ISR event might make it >> doable. >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> "Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but >>> the idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would >>> really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and >>> batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this >>> idea. >>> >>> Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered races, >>> and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. I'm not >>> suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two events >>> in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to >>> participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and >>> maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their >>> attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if >>> we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic >>> given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, >>> the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would >>> enjoy it equally. >>> >>> Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you think >>> such an idea might fly? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey guys, >>>> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this >>>> years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where >>>> everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >>>> >>>> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >>>> challenger) >>>> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for >>>> new members) >>>> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >>>> >>>> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two >>>> choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >>>> soon. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Scott Waters >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sportsub barge.png Type: image/png Size: 136498 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 00:38:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 00:38:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Could someone who has already attended an ISR event (Alec or Steve perhaps) explain how the human-powered subs are launched? I imagine they are light enough to just pick up and manually set down in the pool, no? Does the facility have a gantry or jib crane for launching a heavier submersible like Snoopy or a sportsub, or maybe a zero-entry for ramp launching? ~ Douglas S. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Douglas Suhr wrote: > Cliff, Jon and I can both look into vessels available for rent down in the > Keys, but I have a strong suspicion that we aren't going to find what we're > looking for in a rental boat or barge because of the special requirments. > If we were renting, as soon as a mod would be required the deal would be > off, but I agree that it is still worth looking into. Meantime, I am > considering how dad and I might construct a modular launch and recovery > platform that we could trailer down to the Keys next year. > > Luckily for you and your R-300, you really don't need the services of a > barge with the travel range of your rakish boat. My sportsub on the other > hand will benefit greatly from a barge. I'm going to try to attach a photo > from IVC's site showing a support ship very similar to what I'm talking > about. ~ Douglas S. > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> When I made the ISR video, I think we discussed the possibility of >> bringing Snoopy along and doing some demo dives in the pool. Can't recall >> exactly with whom, but there was interest. Lets see! At any rate I'd have a >> really short trip, I'm only about twenty minutes from the facility. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alec, Scott meant the ISR event : ) >>> >>> I sent an email out tonight to test the waters (pun intended). I >>> thought some might find a tour of the test basin and some of the Navy's >>> destructive testing facilities to be interesting (as well as observing the >>> races). >>> >>> I will see what response I get. It might be tricky since this is an >>> active military base but piggy backing on the ISR event might make it >>> doable. >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> "Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but >>>> the idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would >>>> really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and >>>> batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this >>>> idea. >>>> >>>> Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered >>>> races, and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. >>>> I'm not suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two >>>> events in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to >>>> participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and >>>> maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their >>>> attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if >>>> we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic >>>> given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, >>>> the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would >>>> enjoy it equally. >>>> >>>> Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you >>>> think such an idea might fly? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey guys, >>>>> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this >>>>> years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where >>>>> everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >>>>> >>>>> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >>>>> challenger) >>>>> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for >>>>> new members) >>>>> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >>>>> >>>>> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two >>>>> choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >>>>> soon. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Scott Waters >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 09:41:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 14:41:37 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ice Bucket Challenge In-Reply-To: <1409874752.32925.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <7C0DE6AC-44C7-426F-AEF6-D4EED2C592EC@upplevelsepresent.se> <1409874752.32925.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1409924497.16083.YahooMailNeo@web173204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Fantastic. Great video. Juergen hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles schrieb am 18:54 Donnerstag, 4.September 2014: Lasse, Fantastic, love it! Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9/4/14, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ice Bucket Challenge To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Received: Thursday, September 4, 2014, 7:26 PM We did the Ice Bucket Challenge submarine style today. Enjoy!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CufCvs-6ryg Lasse SchmidtUpplevelseakutenSkeppsbron 21, Tullhus 111130 Stockholm -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 10:39:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:39:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1409927950.34707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Doug, you realize that if you guys built this psub launch barge, we would have a perfect Psub dive location, with outstanding visibility and an absolutely pefect way to launch and retrieve psubs within a 50 mile range of your house with water depths from shallow to as deep as we would want. Who could resist? You realize we would want to come and play with our toys every year! Maybe we could take on the design of this barge as a group and split the cost to fabricate? Just a thought. Cliff ________________________________ From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Cliff, Jon and I can both look into vessels available for rent down in the Keys, but I have a strong suspicion that we aren't going to find what we're looking for in a rental boat or barge because of the special requirments. If we were renting, as soon as a mod would be required the deal would be off, but I agree that it is still worth looking into. Meantime, I am considering how dad and I might construct a modular launch and recovery platform that we could trailer down to the Keys next year. Luckily for you and your R-300, you really don't need the services of a barge with the travel range of your rakish boat. My sportsub on the other hand will benefit greatly from a barge. I'm going to try to attach a photo from IVC's site showing a support ship very similar to what I'm talking about. ~ Douglas S. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: When I made the ISR video, I think we discussed the possibility of bringing Snoopy along and doing some demo dives in the pool. Can't recall exactly with whom, but there was interest. Lets see! At any rate I'd have a really short trip, I'm only about twenty minutes from the facility. > > >Best, > >Alec > > > >On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Alec, Scott meant the ISR event : ) >> >>I sent an email out tonight to test the waters (pun intended). I thought some might find a tour of the test basin and some of the Navy's destructive testing facilities to be interesting (as well as observing the races). >> >>I will see what response I get. It might be tricky since this is an active military base but piggy backing on the ISR event might make it doable. >> >> >> >>Steve >> >> >> >>On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>"Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but the idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this idea. >>> >>> >>>Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered races, and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. I'm not suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two events in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would enjoy it equally. >>> >>> >>>Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you think such an idea might fly? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Alec >>> >>> >>> >>>On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Hey guys, >>>>Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >>>> >>>>First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) >>>>Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new members) >>>>Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >>>> >>>>Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out soon. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Scott Waters >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 11:37:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 11:37:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Doug, they have huge gantry cranes. As well as a ramp that lowers itself into the water but I am not sure of the weight limits for it. They can pick up/drop a psub into the basin without issue. Steve On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:38 AM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Could someone who has already attended an ISR event (Alec or Steve > perhaps) explain how the human-powered subs are launched? I imagine they > are light enough to just pick up and manually set down in the pool, no? > > Does the facility have a gantry or jib crane for launching a heavier > submersible like Snoopy or a sportsub, or maybe a zero-entry for ramp > launching? ~ Douglas S. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Douglas Suhr > wrote: > >> Cliff, Jon and I can both look into vessels available for rent down in >> the Keys, but I have a strong suspicion that we aren't going to find what >> we're looking for in a rental boat or barge because of the special >> requirments. If we were renting, as soon as a mod would be required the >> deal would be off, but I agree that it is still worth looking into. >> Meantime, I am considering how dad and I might construct a modular launch >> and recovery platform that we could trailer down to the Keys next year. >> >> Luckily for you and your R-300, you really don't need the services of a >> barge with the travel range of your rakish boat. My sportsub on the other >> hand will benefit greatly from a barge. I'm going to try to attach a photo >> from IVC's site showing a support ship very similar to what I'm talking >> about. ~ Douglas S. >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> When I made the ISR video, I think we discussed the possibility of >>> bringing Snoopy along and doing some demo dives in the pool. Can't recall >>> exactly with whom, but there was interest. Lets see! At any rate I'd have a >>> really short trip, I'm only about twenty minutes from the facility. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Alec, Scott meant the ISR event : ) >>>> >>>> I sent an email out tonight to test the waters (pun intended). I >>>> thought some might find a tour of the test basin and some of the Navy's >>>> destructive testing facilities to be interesting (as well as observing the >>>> races). >>>> >>>> I will see what response I get. It might be tricky since this is an >>>> active military base but piggy backing on the ISR event might make it >>>> doable. >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but >>>>> the idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would >>>>> really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and >>>>> batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this >>>>> idea. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered >>>>> races, and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. >>>>> I'm not suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two >>>>> events in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to >>>>> participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and >>>>> maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their >>>>> attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if >>>>> we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic >>>>> given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, >>>>> the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would >>>>> enjoy it equally. >>>>> >>>>> Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you >>>>> think such an idea might fly? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey guys, >>>>>> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At >>>>>> this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of >>>>>> where everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >>>>>> >>>>>> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >>>>>> challenger) >>>>>> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for >>>>>> new members) >>>>>> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first >>>>>> two choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >>>>>> soon. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Scott Waters >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 11:47:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:47:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140905084714.43C8158A@m0048141.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 12:17:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 12:17:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <1409927950.34707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <1409927950.34707.YahooMailNeo@web181204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Totally agree, and happy to chip in. Thanks, Alec On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug, you realize that if you guys built this psub launch barge, we would > have a perfect Psub dive location, with outstanding visibility and an > absolutely pefect way to launch and retrieve psubs within a 50 mile > range of your house with water depths from shallow to as deep as we would > want. Who could resist? You realize we would want to come and play with > our toys every year! > > Maybe we could take on the design of this barge as a group and split the > cost to fabricate? Just a thought. > > Cliff > > > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:30 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > Cliff, Jon and I can both look into vessels available for rent down in the > Keys, but I have a strong suspicion that we aren't going to find what we're > looking for in a rental boat or barge because of the special requirments. > If we were renting, as soon as a mod would be required the deal would be > off, but I agree that it is still worth looking into. Meantime, I am > considering how dad and I might construct a modular launch and recovery > platform that we could trailer down to the Keys next year. > > Luckily for you and your R-300, you really don't need the services of a > barge with the travel range of your rakish boat. My sportsub on the other > hand will benefit greatly from a barge. I'm going to try to attach a photo > from IVC's site showing a support ship very similar to what I'm talking > about. ~ Douglas S. > > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > When I made the ISR video, I think we discussed the possibility of > bringing Snoopy along and doing some demo dives in the pool. Can't recall > exactly with whom, but there was interest. Lets see! At any rate I'd have a > really short trip, I'm only about twenty minutes from the facility. > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, Scott meant the ISR event : ) > > I sent an email out tonight to test the waters (pun intended). I thought > some might find a tour of the test basin and some of the Navy's destructive > testing facilities to be interesting (as well as observing the races). > > I will see what response I get. It might be tricky since this is an > active military base but piggy backing on the ISR event might make it > doable. > > > Steve > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > "Manned power submarine races???" I take it those don't exist yet but the > idea would be to organize such a thing? I'm not sure any of us would > really take it with any seriousness, such as upping our thrusters and > batteries or installing rocket boosters. However, there's a variant of this > idea. > > Perhaps we could contact ISR, the organizers of the human-powered races, > and see if they would like us to co-locate our event with theirs. I'm not > suggesting any actual PSUBS competition, but simply holding the two events > in the same spot at the same time because of the mutual interest to > participants. We could ask for an area to set up in for static display and > maybe to let us do some demo dives in the pool, and in exchange offer their > attendees tours of our boats and admission to presentations. The diving, if > we can even get that bit past the lawyers, would certainly not be scenic > given its in a dark swimming pool. Great for testing PSUB lights. However, > the audience participation I think would be terrific and both groups would > enjoy it equally. > > Steve McQueen has been a volunteer at ISR for years. Steve, do you think > such an idea might fly? > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hey guys, > Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this > years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where > everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with > > First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) > Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new > members) > Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) > > Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two > choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out > soon. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 12:21:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:21:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 Message-ID: <20140905092104.4400991A@m0005309.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 14:32:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 14:32:20 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their event in 2015 is June 22-26. However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. Steve On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, > Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this > years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where > everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with > > First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) > Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new > members) > Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) > > Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two > choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out > soon. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 16:12:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 20:12:15 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Assuming folks prefer to go to FL (and I?m in that camp too) we could probably fly the flag at ISR anyway. It?s in my backyard so I could do it with virtually no effort, and Mark Ragan is here as well so perhaps I could convince him. If I can, we?d have three subs between us. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:32 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their event in 2015 is June 22-26. However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. Steve On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new members) Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out soon. Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 16:13:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:13:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. Thanks for your go-between work Steve. I must admit I was rather unaware of the ISR event until "snooping" through some of Alec's videos. I'm quite intrigued and may well attend this coming year's event regardless of what is decided as a group. Is attendance open to the general public? ~ Douglas S. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems > positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their > event in 2015 is June 22-26. > > However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer > Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their > chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. > > I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. > > Steve > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hey guys, >> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this >> years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where >> everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >> >> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >> challenger) >> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new >> members) >> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >> >> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two >> choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >> soon. >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 16:57:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 13:57:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1409950635.84504.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could collectively critique and make suggested changes to. Someone would need to do the basic stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need to figure out where to build it and what it would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who would be liable? We would need someone that is not currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge Bulldog! Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat and let them do it. Cliff ________________________________ From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. Thanks for your go-between work Steve. I must admit I was rather unaware of the ISR event until "snooping" through some of Alec's videos. I'm quite intrigued and may well attend this coming year's event regardless of what is decided as a group. Is attendance open to the general public? ~ Douglas S. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their event in 2015 is June 22-26. > >However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. > >I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. > >Steve > > > > >On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hey guys, >>Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >> >>First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) >>Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new members) >>Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >> >>Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out soon. >> >>Thanks, >>Scott Waters >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 17:08:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 17:08:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409950635.84504.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <1409950635.84504.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <540A266B.5080204@psubs.org> Or just see what it would cost to purchase a used barge of adequate size. Military surplus might be feasible. On 9/5/2014 4:57 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, > it would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get > it of the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one don't > have the time to design a self powered ship. I am thinking a larger > version of a typical pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston > Whaler. We would need someone like Jon to be able to set up something > like a dropbox account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively establish the > overall capability of the barge ( how many psubs, maximum weight of > psubs, wench/davit system for launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems > such as lights). Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor > or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas folks > come up with and build out 3-D model that we could collectively > critique and make suggested changes to. Someone would need to do the > basic stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck. Some one > would need to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such > as davits or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the > construction drawing to make sure welding plan is workable. Someone > would have to figure out where you would store the barge when not in > use. Some one would need to figure out a coating plan for the barge. > Someone would have to take on looking at what regulations we would > need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have to > do a material takeoff off construction drawings and figure out the > cost to build and establish a budget. If we did build a psub barge, > we would need to pole the group and see how many would be willing to > split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost. We would > need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We > would need to figure out where to build it and what it would cost to > transport it the Keys. We would have to figure out how to register > such a barge. Would Psubs own the barge or would it make since for > Doug to own? Are there any legal liabilities of having such a barge > and if so who would be liable? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge Bulldog! > > Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the > hat and let them do it. > > Cliff > > *From:* Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! > > I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my > only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that > magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership > and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset > we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't > think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. > > Thanks for your go-between work Steve. I must admit I was rather > unaware of the ISR event until "snooping" through some of Alec's > videos. I'm quite intrigued and may well attend this coming year's > event regardless of what is decided as a group. Is attendance open to > the general public? ~ Douglas S. > > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) > seems positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on > their event. Their event in 2015 is June 22-26. > > However based on the comments in this thread it seems members > prefer Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too > far up their chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will > go that route. > > I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. > > Steve > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Hey guys, > Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. > At this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a > discussion of where everyone wanted to go. The following is in > order what we came up with > First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep > sea challenger) > Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest > potential for new members) > Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) > Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the > first two choices would work. More info about next years > conference will come out soon. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 17:15:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:15:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <540A266B.5080204@psubs.org> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <1409950635.84504.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <540A266B.5080204@psubs.org> Message-ID: <7DA29D19-606F-4E30-81F3-23552277E304@sbcglobal.net> That would be easier if we could find one. Cliff Redus > On Sep 5, 2014, at 4:08 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Or just see what it would cost to purchase a used barge of adequate size. Military surplus might be feasible. > > >> On 9/5/2014 4:57 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could collectively critique and make suggested changes to. Someone would need to do the basic stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need to figure out where to build it and what it would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who would be liable? We would need someone that is not currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge Bulldog! >> >> Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat and let them do it. >> >> Cliff >> >> From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 >> >> What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! >> >> I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. >> >> Thanks for your go-between work Steve. I must admit I was rather unaware of the ISR event until "snooping" through some of Alec's videos. I'm quite intrigued and may well attend this coming year's event regardless of what is decided as a group. Is attendance open to the general public? ~ Douglas S. >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their event in 2015 is June 22-26. >> >> However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. >> >> I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. >> >> Steve >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hey guys, >> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >> >> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) >> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new members) >> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >> >> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out soon. >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 17:38:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:38:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Message-ID: <42fu1ksfim65vmj74fvf9da6.1409953110972@email.android.com> Is there any kind of used boat we could buy and modify it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date:09/05/2014 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could collectively critique and make suggested changes to. Someone would need to do the basic stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need to figure out where to build it and what it would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who would be liable? We would need someone that is not currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge Bulldog! Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat and let them do it. Cliff ________________________________ From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 17:42:57 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 14:42:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <42fu1ksfim65vmj74fvf9da6.1409953110972@email.android.com> References: <42fu1ksfim65vmj74fvf9da6.1409953110972@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1409953377.59260.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> That would be easier. Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used barge that we could do a make over on. Cliff ________________________________ From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Is there any kind of used boat we could buy and modify it? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date:09/05/2014 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could collectively critique and make suggested changes to. Someone would need to do the basic stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need to figure out where to build it and what it would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who would be liable? We would need someone that is not currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge Bulldog! Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat and let them do it. Cliff ________________________________ From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 18:02:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409953377.59260.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <42fu1ksfim65vmj74fvf9da6.1409953110972@email.android.com> <1409953377.59260.YahooMailNeo@web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Or even if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major head start on designing the rest of the system. Before we do anything else though, I think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to handle two subs at once may present issues with stability (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a possible solution but would present its own challenges and dangers). I'd love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think it's important to keep this project reasonable and road trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles (and not tractor trailers). Perhaps limiting ourselves to a single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That would be easier. Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > > *From:* "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, September 5, 2014 4:38 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > Is there any kind of used boat we could buy and modify it? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Date:09/05/2014 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it > would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one don't have the time > to design a self powered ship. I am thinking a larger version of a typical > pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need > someone like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox account that > anyone could populate with files, drawing, sketches, CAD files etc. We > would have to collectively establish the overall capability of the barge ( > how many psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for launch and > retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). Someone that has a 3-D cad > program like Inventor or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches > and ideas folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. Someone would need to > do the basic > stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck. Some one would need > to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits or > winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. Someone that is a > welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the construction drawing to > make sure welding plan is workable. Someone would have to figure out where > you would store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to figure > out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would have to take on looking at > what regulations we would need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys. > Someone would have to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we did build a > psub barge, we would need to pole the group and see how many would be > willing to split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost. We > would need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We > would need to > figure out where to build it and what it would cost to transport it the > Keys. We would have to figure out how to register such a barge. Would > Psubs own the barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there any > legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who would be liable? We > would need someone that is not currently building a psub to agree to be the > Barge Bulldog! > > Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only > concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization > though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a > team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 18:26:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:26:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Message-ID: <20140905152606.43C6D8F2@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 18:56:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:56:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <20140905152606.43C6D8F2@m0048138.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1409957780.69378.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM Sounds like a lot of $$$ dollar signs !?I wonder if the subs were partially in the water if it might make the barge more stable.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 Or even if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major head start on designing the rest of the system.? Before we do anything else though, I think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to handle two subs at once may present issues with stability (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a possible solution but would present its own challenges and dangers).? I'd love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think it's important to keep this project reasonable and road trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles (and not tractor trailers).? Perhaps limiting ourselves to a single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? ? On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That would be easier.? Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used barge that we could do a make over on. Cliff From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Is there any kind of used boat we could buy and modify it?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date:09/05/2014 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of the drawing board and built by a committee.? I for one don't have the time to design a self powered ship.? I am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston Whaler.? We would need someone like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, sketches, CAD files? etc.? We would have to collectively establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights).? Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could collectively critique and make suggested changes to.? Someone would need to do the basic stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck.? Some one would need to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits? or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations.? Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is workable.? Someone would have to figure out where you would store the barge when not in use.? Some one would need to figure out a coating plan for the barge.? Someone would have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys.? Someone would have to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and figure out the cost to build and establish a budget.? If we did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost.? We would need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly.? We would need to figure out where to build it and what it would cost to transport it the Keys.? We would have to figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the barge or would it make since for Doug to own?? Are there any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who would be liable?? We would need someone that is not currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge Bulldog! Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat and let them do it. Cliff ________________________________ From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 ? What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 19:08:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 18:08:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Message-ID: Do you have a picture of your barge Hank? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:09/05/2014 4:56 PM (GMT-07:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM Sounds like a lot of $$$ dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs were partially in the water if it might make the barge more stable. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 19:11:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:11:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409957780.69378.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1409957780.69378.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2369ED84-3C59-451D-8620-D38C8B6340D3@sbcglobal.net> Hank, can you send a picture? Cliff R > On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM > > Sounds like a lot of $$$ > dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs > were partially in the water if it might make the barge more > stable. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 > > Or even > if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes > or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major > head start on designing the rest of the system. > Before we do anything else though, I > think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to > handle two subs at once may present issues with stability > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is > on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > possible solution but would present its own challenges and > dangers). > I'd > love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think > it's important to keep this project reasonable and road > trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > (and not tractor trailers). > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the > KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in > terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? > > > On > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > That would be > easier. Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > > From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles" > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, September > 5, 2014 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > Is there any > kind of used boat we could buy and modify > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message > -------- > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Date:09/05/2014 > 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of > view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one > don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I > am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that > could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone > like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox > account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively > establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). > Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. > Someone would need to do > the basic > stability calcs with loaded or > partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some > research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits > or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to > review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is > workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would > store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to > figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would > have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to > meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have > to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and > see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate > based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to > agree > to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need > to > figure out where to build it and what it > would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to > figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the > barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who > would be liable? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge > Bulldog! > > Or if someone > would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > 2015 > > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp > chamber to > boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed > and group-built support ship, my only concern being the > logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper > leadership and organization though, especially considering > the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing > to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 19:23:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:23:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <2369ED84-3C59-451D-8620-D38C8B6340D3@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1409959391.48173.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, If you go to my projects on Psubs my 48in sphere sub is sitting on my barge. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 7:11 PM Hank, can you send a picture? Cliff R > On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM > > Sounds like a lot of $$$ > dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs > were partially in the water if it might make the barge more > stable. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 > > Or even > if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes > or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major > head start on designing the rest of the system. > Before we do anything else though, I > think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to > handle two subs at once may present issues with stability > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is > on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > possible solution but would present its own challenges and > dangers). > I'd > love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think > it's important to keep this project reasonable and road > trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > (and not tractor trailers). > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the > KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in > terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? >? > > On > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > That would be > easier.? Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > >? From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles" >? >? To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > >? Sent: Friday, September > 5, 2014 4:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > Is there any > kind of used boat we could buy and modify > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message > -------- > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles? > Date:09/05/2014 > 3:57 PM? (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion? > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of >? view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee.? I for one > don't have the time to design a self powered ship.? I > am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that > could be towed by the Boston Whaler.? We would need someone > like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox > account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files? etc.? We would have to collectively > establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). > Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. > Someone would need to do >? the basic >? stability calcs with loaded or > partially loaded deck.? Some one would need to do some > research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits > or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to > review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is > workable.? Someone would have to figure out where you would > store the barge when not in use.? Some one would need to > figure out a coating plan for the barge.? Someone would > have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to > meet to use this in the Florida Keys.? Someone would have > to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget.? If we > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and > see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate > based on the estimated cost.? We would need someone to > agree >? to fabricate the weldments and assembly.? We would need > to >? figure out where to build it and what it > would cost to transport it the Keys.? We would have to > figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the > barge or would it make since for Doug to own?? Are there > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who > would be liable?? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge > Bulldog! > > Or if someone > would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ >? From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > 2015 >??? > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp > chamber to >? boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed > and group-built support ship, my only concern being the > logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper > leadership and organization though, especially considering > the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing > to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 19:46:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 06:46:55 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409950635.84504.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <1409950635.84504.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <080B0105-1CF0-4633-90AB-AEEC4E7691A9@yahoo.com> A few thoughts. What would it cost to moor a barge all year round? What about maintenance costs & fuel. Last year we spent hours towing Snoopy out in moderate seas & couldn't board her; I would think a barge would have to be pretty big to launch a sub from, in even moderate seas. The Sua's Boston Wailer was able to tow Snoopy at it's maximum speed before Snoopy started to nose dive, & we had the advantage of being able to trailer Snoopy to a boat ramp & be met with the Whaler to save towing time. If you bought or made a barge, how many subs could you put on board? I think it would be much easier & cheaper to find other small boats for towing to accommodate the amount of subs attending. Maybe have a small inflatable tender for boarding & exiting the subs. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/09/2014, at 3:57 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > From a practical point of view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could collectively critique and make suggested changes to. Someone would need to do the basic stability calcs with loaded or partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to agree to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need to figure out where to build it and what it would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who would be liable? We would need someone that is not currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge Bulldog! > > Or if someone would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat and let them do it. > > Cliff > > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! > > I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain about the benefits of a support barge. > > Thanks for your go-between work Steve. I must admit I was rather unaware of the ISR event until "snooping" through some of Alec's videos. I'm quite intrigued and may well attend this coming year's event regardless of what is decided as a group. Is attendance open to the general public? ~ Douglas S. > > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their event in 2015 is June 22-26. > > However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. > > I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. > > Steve > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey guys, > Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with > > First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) > Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new members) > Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) > > Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out soon. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 19:52:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:52:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409959391.48173.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <2369ED84-3C59-451D-8620-D38C8B6340D3@sbcglobal.net> <1409959391.48173.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1409961167.41029.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hank, when I look at the Psub project site and look at your Gamma Restoration project I don't see the barge you are referring to. What am I missing? Cliff ________________________________ From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Cliff, If you go to my projects on Psubs my 48in sphere sub is sitting on my barge. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 7:11 PM Hank, can you send a picture? Cliff R > On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM > > Sounds like a lot of $$$ > dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs > were partially in the water if it might make the barge more > stable. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 > > Or even > if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes > or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major > head start on designing the rest of the system. > Before we do anything else though, I > think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to > handle two subs at once may present issues with stability > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is > on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > possible solution but would present its own challenges and > dangers). > I'd > love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think > it's important to keep this project reasonable and road > trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > (and not tractor trailers). > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the > KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in > terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? > > > On > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > That would be > easier. Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > > From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles" > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, September > 5, 2014 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > Is there any > kind of used boat we could buy and modify > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message > -------- > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Date:09/05/2014 > 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of > view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one > don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I > am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that > could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone > like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox > account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively > establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). > Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. > Someone would need to do > the basic > stability calcs with loaded or > partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some > research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits > or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to > review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is > workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would > store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to > figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would > have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to > meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have > to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and > see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate > based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to > agree > to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need > to > figure out where to build it and what it > would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to > figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the > barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who > would be liable? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge > Bulldog! > > Or if someone > would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > 2015 > > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp > chamber to > boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed > and group-built support ship, my only concern being the > logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper > leadership and organization though, especially considering > the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing > to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 19:59:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:59:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409961167.41029.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1409961560.70057.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, It is under Last Sphere sub, it is the fifth from last on the list of projects. You can also search my name and see it listed with my other projects. It is not under Gamma restoration. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 7:52 PM ?Hank, when I look at the Psub project site and look at your Gamma Restoration project I don't see the barge you are referring to.? What am I missing? Cliff From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge Cliff, If you go to my projects on Psubs my 48in sphere sub is sitting on my barge. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 7:11 PM Hank, can you send a picture? Cliff R > On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM > > Sounds like a lot of $$$ > dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs > were partially in the water if it might make the barge more > stable. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 > > Or even > if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes > or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major > head start on designing the rest of the system. > Before we do anything else though, I > think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to > handle two subs at once may present issues with stability > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is > on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > possible solution but would present its own challenges and > dangers). > I'd > love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think > it's important to keep this project reasonable and road > trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > (and not tractor trailers). > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the > KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in > terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? >? > > On > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > That would be > easier.? Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > >? From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles" >? >? To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > >? Sent: Friday, September > 5, 2014 4:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > Is there any > kind of used boat we could buy and modify > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message > -------- > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles? > Date:09/05/2014 > 3:57 PM? (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion? > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of >? view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee.? I for one > don't have the time to design a self powered ship.? I > am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that > could be towed by the Boston Whaler.? We would need someone > like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox > account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files? etc.? We would have to collectively > establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). > Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. > Someone would need to do >? the basic >? stability calcs with loaded or > partially loaded deck.? Some one would need to do some > research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits > or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to > review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is > workable.? Someone would have to figure out where you would > store the barge when not in use.? Some one would need to > figure out a coating plan for the barge.? Someone would > have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to > meet to use this in the Florida Keys.? Someone would have > to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget.? If we > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and > see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate > based on the estimated cost.? We would need someone to > agree >? to fabricate the weldments and assembly.? We would need > to >? figure out where to build it and what it > would cost to transport it the Keys.? We would have to > figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the > barge or would it make since for Doug to own?? Are there > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who > would be liable?? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge > Bulldog! > > Or if someone > would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ >? From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > 2015 >??? > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp > chamber to >? boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed > and group-built support ship, my only concern being the > logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper > leadership and organization though, especially considering > the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing > to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 20:00:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 20:00:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409961167.41029.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <2369ED84-3C59-451D-8620-D38C8B6340D3@sbcglobal.net> <1409959391.48173.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1409961167.41029.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, on the PSUBS website, go to the main "projects and photos" page. Then change "submersible" to "submitter" in the drop down list. Find Hank's name and navigate to his album list. Then click on the album named "last sphere sub 48in dia." There you will find the photo of Hank's barge. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, when I look at the Psub project site and look at your Gamma > Restoration project I don't see the barge you are referring to. What am I > missing? > > Cliff > > > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, September 5, 2014 6:23 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > Cliff, > If you go to my projects on Psubs my 48in sphere sub is sitting on my > barge. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 7:11 PM > > Hank, can you send a > picture? > > > Cliff R > > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > I built my > barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had > laying around. > > Hank > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 > PM > > > > Sounds like a > lot of $$$ > > dollar signs ! I wonder if > the subs > > were partially in the water if > it might make the barge more > > stable. > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > > From: > Douglas Suhr via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: > > Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs > Barge > > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 > -0400 > > > > Or even > > if we could just find a couple of nice, > big aluminum tubes > > or fiberglass hulls > to work with, that would give us a major > > head start on designing the rest of the > system. > > Before we do anything else > though, I > > think we should consider > weights and sizes. Do we want to be > > > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two > small subs > > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a > fairly dense item so trying to > > handle > two subs at once may present issues with stability > > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and > the second sub is > > on one end of the > barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > > > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > > possible solution but would present its > own challenges and > > dangers). > > I'd > > love to say > we'll just build it bigger, but I think > > it's important to keep this project > reasonable and road > > trailerable (even > if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > > (and not tractor trailers). > > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > > single-vessel barge would be best (and > would conform to the > > KISS guidelines), > but it would sure be nice to have a > > > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck > in > > terms of diving per ocean trip. > Opinions? > > > > > > On > > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 > at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > That would > be > > easier. Maybe we should all be on > the lookout for used > > barge that we > could do a make over on. > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > > via Personal_Submersibles" > > > > To: Personal > > > Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Sent: Friday, > September > > 5, 2014 4:38 PM > > Subject: Re: > > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > > > > Is there any > > kind of used boat we could buy and > modify > > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my > > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > -------- Original > message > > -------- > > > From: Cliff Redus via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > > Date:09/05/2014 > > 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) > > > To: Personal > > > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs > Barge > > > > From a > practical point of > > view, if we did > build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > > be fairly simple and follow the KISS > principle to get it of > > the drawing > board and built by a committee. I for one > > don't have the time to design a self > powered ship. I > > am thinking a larger > version of a typical pontoon boat that > > > could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need > someone > > like Jon to be able to set up > something like a dropbox > > account that > anyone could populate with files, drawing, > > sketches, CAD files etc. We would have > to collectively > > establish the overall > capability of the barge ( how many > > > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems > such as lights). > > Someone that has a > 3-D cad program like Inventor or > > > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > > folks come up with and build out 3-D model > that we could > > collectively critique and > make suggested changes to. > > Someone > would need to do > > the basic > > stability calcs with loaded or > > partially loaded deck. Some one would > need to do some > > research on launch and > retrieval systems, such as davits > > or > winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) > would need to > > review the construction > drawing to make sure welding plan is > > > workable. Someone would have to figure out where you > would > > store the barge when not in > use. Some one would need to > > figure > out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would > > have to take on looking at what > regulations we would need to > > meet to > use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have > > to do a material takeoff off construction > drawings and > > figure out the cost to > build and establish a budget. If we > > > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group > and > > see how many would be willing to > split the cost to fabricate > > based on > the estimated cost. We would need someone to > > agree > > to fabricate > the weldments and assembly. We would need > > to > > figure out where > to build it and what it > > would cost to > transport it the Keys. We would have to > > figure out how to register such a barge. > Would Psubs own the > > barge or would it > make since for Doug to own? Are there > > > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so > who > > would be liable? We would need > someone that is not > > currently building > a psub to agree to be the Barge > > > Bulldog! > > > > Or if > someone > > would agree to do all the > above, maybe we just pass the hat > > and > let them do it. > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > > > > > Sent: Friday, > September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > > > 2015 > > > > > > > > > What a rig > Brian, and a decomp > > chamber to > > boot! > > I like the > idea of a group-designed > > and > group-built support ship, my only concern being the > > logistics of coordinating a project of > that magnitude. > > I'm sure it could > be done well given the proper > > > leadership and organization though, especially > considering > > the diverse skillset we > would share as a team from designing > > to > fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline > Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 20:10:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 19:10:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: References: <2369ED84-3C59-451D-8620-D38C8B6340D3@sbcglobal.net> <1409959391.48173.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1409961167.41029.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If had to buy that crane, you would spend some change. What is max you can lift if you limit the reach to say 5 ft from the barge? Cliff Redus > On Sep 5, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, on the PSUBS website, go to the main "projects and photos" page. Then change "submersible" to "submitter" in the drop down list. Find Hank's name and navigate to his album list. Then click on the album named "last sphere sub 48in dia." There you will find the photo of Hank's barge. > > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, when I look at the Psub project site and look at your Gamma Restoration project I don't see the barge you are referring to. What am I missing? >> >> Cliff >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 6:23 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge >> >> Cliff, >> If you go to my projects on Psubs my 48in sphere sub is sitting on my barge. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Fri, 9/5/14, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 7:11 PM >> >> Hank, can you send a >> picture? >> >> >> Cliff R >> >> > >> On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:56 PM, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> > I built my >> barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had >> laying around. >> > Hank >> > >> -------------------------------------------- >> > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> > Subject: >> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge >> > To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 >> PM >> > >> > Sounds like a >> lot of $$$ >> > dollar signs ! I wonder if >> the subs >> > were partially in the water if >> it might make the barge more >> > stable. >> Brian >> > >> > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> > >> > From: >> Douglas Suhr via >> > >> Personal_Submersibles >> > >> > To: >> > Personal >> Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs >> Barge >> > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 >> -0400 >> > >> > Or even >> > if we could just find a couple of nice, >> big aluminum tubes >> > or fiberglass hulls >> to work with, that would give us a major >> > head start on designing the rest of the >> system. >> > Before we do anything else >> though, I >> > think we should consider >> weights and sizes. Do we want to be >> > >> able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an >> > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two >> small subs >> > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a >> fairly dense item so trying to >> > handle >> two subs at once may present issues with stability >> > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and >> the second sub is >> > on one end of the >> barge, thrown in with a mix of wave >> > >> action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a >> > possible solution but would present its >> own challenges and >> > dangers). >> > I'd >> > love to say >> we'll just build it bigger, but I think >> > it's important to keep this project >> reasonable and road >> > trailerable (even >> if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles >> > (and not tractor trailers). >> > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a >> > single-vessel barge would be best (and >> would conform to the >> > KISS guidelines), >> but it would sure be nice to have a >> > >> two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck >> in >> > terms of diving per ocean trip. >> Opinions? >> > >> > >> > On >> > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 >> at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via >> > >> Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> > That would >> be >> > easier. Maybe we should all be on >> the lookout for used >> > barge that we >> could do a make over on. >> > >> > >> > Cliff >> > >> > >> > From: "swaters at waters-ks.com >> > via Personal_Submersibles" >> > >> > To: Personal >> > >> Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> > Sent: Friday, >> September >> > 5, 2014 4:38 PM >> > Subject: Re: >> > >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge >> > >> > >> > Is there any >> > kind of used boat we could buy and >> modify >> > it?Thanks,Scott Waters >> > >> > Sent from my >> > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> > >> > -------- Original >> message >> > -------- >> > >> From: Cliff Redus via >> > >> Personal_Submersibles >> > >> Date:09/05/2014 >> > 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) >> >> > To: Personal >> > >> Submersibles General Discussion >> > >> Subject: >> > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs >> Barge >> > >> > From a >> practical point of >> > view, if we did >> build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to >> > be fairly simple and follow the KISS >> principle to get it of >> > the drawing >> board and built by a committee. I for one >> > don't have the time to design a self >> powered ship. I >> > am thinking a larger >> version of a typical pontoon boat that >> > >> could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need >> someone >> > like Jon to be able to set up >> something like a dropbox >> > account that >> anyone could populate with files, drawing, >> > sketches, CAD files etc. We would have >> to collectively >> > establish the overall >> capability of the barge ( how many >> > >> psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for >> > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems >> such as lights). >> > Someone that has a >> 3-D cad program like Inventor or >> > >> Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas >> > folks come up with and build out 3-D model >> that we could >> > collectively critique and >> make suggested changes to. >> > Someone >> would need to do >> > the basic >> > stability calcs with loaded or >> > partially loaded deck. Some one would >> need to do some >> > research on launch and >> retrieval systems, such as davits >> > or >> winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. >> > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) >> would need to >> > review the construction >> drawing to make sure welding plan is >> > >> workable. Someone would have to figure out where you >> would >> > store the barge when not in >> use. Some one would need to >> > figure >> out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would >> > have to take on looking at what >> regulations we would need to >> > meet to >> use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have >> > to do a material takeoff off construction >> drawings and >> > figure out the cost to >> build and establish a budget. If we >> > >> did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group >> and >> > see how many would be willing to >> split the cost to fabricate >> > based on >> the estimated cost. We would need someone to >> > agree >> > to fabricate >> the weldments and assembly. We would need >> > to >> > figure out where >> to build it and what it >> > would cost to >> transport it the Keys. We would have to >> > figure out how to register such a barge. >> Would Psubs own the >> > barge or would it >> make since for Doug to own? Are there >> > >> any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so >> who >> > would be liable? We would need >> someone that is not >> > currently building >> a psub to agree to be the Barge >> > >> Bulldog! >> > >> > Or if >> someone >> > would agree to do all the >> above, maybe we just pass the hat >> > and >> let them do it. >> > >> > >> Cliff >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Douglas Suhr via >> Personal_Submersibles >> > >> > To: Personal Submersibles General >> Discussion >> > >> > >> > Sent: Friday, >> September 5, 2014 3:13 PM >> > Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference >> > >> 2015 >> > >> > >> >> > >> > What a rig >> Brian, and a decomp >> > chamber to >> > boot! >> > I like the >> idea of a group-designed >> > and >> group-built support ship, my only concern being the >> > logistics of coordinating a project of >> that magnitude. >> > I'm sure it could >> be done well given the proper >> > >> leadership and organization though, especially >> considering >> > the diverse skillset we >> would share as a team from designing >> > to >> fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain >> > about the benefits of a support barge. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > -----Inline >> Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 20:12:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409957780.69378.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1409957780.69378.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B267313-E47F-446E-83BD-150D9102FAF7@gmail.com> That is outrageously good, and the cost is crazy low for the result. Plus, I love the small items you just happen to have lying around in the parts bin. Hank, we should all just buy it off you for two grand so you double your investment, and we'd still be getting it for a small fraction of what it would cost new. Best, Alec > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM > > Sounds like a lot of $$$ > dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs > were partially in the water if it might make the barge more > stable. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 > > Or even > if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes > or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major > head start on designing the rest of the system. > Before we do anything else though, I > think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to > handle two subs at once may present issues with stability > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is > on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > possible solution but would present its own challenges and > dangers). > I'd > love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think > it's important to keep this project reasonable and road > trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > (and not tractor trailers). > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the > KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in > terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? > > > On > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > That would be > easier. Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > > From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles" > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, September > 5, 2014 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > Is there any > kind of used boat we could buy and modify > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message > -------- > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Date:09/05/2014 > 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of > view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee. I for one > don't have the time to design a self powered ship. I > am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that > could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need someone > like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox > account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files etc. We would have to collectively > establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). > Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. > Someone would need to do > the basic > stability calcs with loaded or > partially loaded deck. Some one would need to do some > research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits > or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to > review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is > workable. Someone would have to figure out where you would > store the barge when not in use. Some one would need to > figure out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would > have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to > meet to use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have > to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget. If we > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and > see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate > based on the estimated cost. We would need someone to > agree > to fabricate the weldments and assembly. We would need > to > figure out where to build it and what it > would cost to transport it the Keys. We would have to > figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the > barge or would it make since for Doug to own? Are there > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who > would be liable? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge > Bulldog! > > Or if someone > would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ > From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > 2015 > > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp > chamber to > boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed > and group-built support ship, my only concern being the > logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper > leadership and organization though, especially considering > the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing > to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 20:21:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 20:21:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Yes, a good idea/compromise. I will wait to see what other comments the group might have about this. Steve On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Assuming folks prefer to go to FL (and I?m in that camp too) we could > probably fly the flag at ISR anyway. It?s in my backyard so I could do it > with virtually no effort, and Mark Ragan is here as well so perhaps I could > convince him. If I can, we?d have three subs between us. > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, September 05, 2014 2:32 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 > > > > The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems > positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their > event in 2015 is June 22-26. > > However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer > Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their > chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. > > I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. > > Steve > > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hey guys, > > Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this > years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where > everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with > > > > First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea challenger) > > Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for new > members) > > Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) > > > > Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two > choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out > soon. > > > > Thanks, > > Scott Waters > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 20:24:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 20:24:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Doug let's see what the final decision is and if you want to attend (assuming we don't hold the conference there) I will help get you details and make arrangements for you. Normally since it is held on an active military facility it isn't open to the general public for security reasons. Steve On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! > > I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only > concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization > though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a > team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > Thanks for your go-between work Steve. I must admit I was rather unaware > of the ISR event until "snooping" through some of Alec's videos. I'm quite > intrigued and may well attend this coming year's event regardless of what > is decided as a group. Is attendance open to the general public? ~ Douglas > S. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems >> positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their >> event in 2015 is June 22-26. >> >> However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer >> Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their >> chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. >> >> I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. >> >> Steve >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hey guys, >>> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this >>> years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where >>> everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >>> >>> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >>> challenger) >>> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for >>> new members) >>> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >>> >>> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two >>> choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >>> soon. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 20:26:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 17:26:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1B267313-E47F-446E-83BD-150D9102FAF7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1409963183.79502.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, There are two wing tanks that the crane lifts into place and we bolt them on. The wing tanks are also 500 gal propane tanks. The barge could lift the sphere sub (2,400lbs) 6 feet from the deck. The crane is off now and a hydraulic winch is built to go in it's place. I would donate it to the psub group but shipping is more than it it cost to build. It is 500 gall propane tanks welded together with used 8in channel that was laying around lol It is very safe because the tanks are separate. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 8:12 PM That is outrageously good, and the cost is crazy low for the result. Plus, I love the small items you just happen to have lying around in the parts bin. Hank, we should all just buy it off you for two grand so you double your investment, and we'd still be getting it for a small fraction of what it would cost new. Best, Alec > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM > > Sounds like a lot of $$$ > dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs > were partially in the water if it might make the barge more > stable. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 > > Or even > if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes > or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major > head start on designing the rest of the system. > Before we do anything else though, I > think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to > handle two subs at once may present issues with stability > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is > on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > possible solution but would present its own challenges and > dangers). > I'd > love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think > it's important to keep this project reasonable and road > trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > (and not tractor trailers). > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the > KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in > terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? >? > > On > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > That would be > easier.? Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > >? From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles" >? >? To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > >? Sent: Friday, September > 5, 2014 4:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > Is there any > kind of used boat we could buy and modify > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message > -------- > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles? > Date:09/05/2014 > 3:57 PM? (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion? > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of >? view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee.? I for one > don't have the time to design a self powered ship.? I > am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that > could be towed by the Boston Whaler.? We would need someone > like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox > account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files? etc.? We would have to collectively > establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). > Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. > Someone would need to do >? the basic >? stability calcs with loaded or > partially loaded deck.? Some one would need to do some > research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits > or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to > review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is > workable.? Someone would have to figure out where you would > store the barge when not in use.? Some one would need to > figure out a coating plan for the barge.? Someone would > have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to > meet to use this in the Florida Keys.? Someone would have > to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget.? If we > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and > see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate > based on the estimated cost.? We would need someone to > agree >? to fabricate the weldments and assembly.? We would need > to >? figure out where to build it and what it > would cost to transport it the Keys.? We would have to > figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the > barge or would it make since for Doug to own?? Are there > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who > would be liable?? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge > Bulldog! > > Or if someone > would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ >? From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > 2015 >??? > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp > chamber to >? boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed > and group-built support ship, my only concern being the > logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper > leadership and organization though, especially considering > the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing > to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 20:31:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 17:31:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1B267313-E47F-446E-83BD-150D9102FAF7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1409963487.33813.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, I have to agree with Alan, barges are a big deal to store etc. I am lucky to have stuff around to work with, one mans junk is another mans treasure :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 8:12 PM That is outrageously good, and the cost is crazy low for the result. Plus, I love the small items you just happen to have lying around in the parts bin. Hank, we should all just buy it off you for two grand so you double your investment, and we'd still be getting it for a small fraction of what it would cost new. Best, Alec > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:56 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I built my barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had laying around. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 PM > > Sounds like a lot of $$$ > dollar signs ! I wonder if the subs > were partially in the water if it might make the barge more > stable. Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 -0400 > > Or even > if we could just find a couple of nice, big aluminum tubes > or fiberglass hulls to work with, that would give us a major > head start on designing the rest of the system. > Before we do anything else though, I > think we should consider weights and sizes. Do we want to be > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two small subs > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a fairly dense item so trying to > handle two subs at once may present issues with stability > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and the second sub is > on one end of the barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > possible solution but would present its own challenges and > dangers). > I'd > love to say we'll just build it bigger, but I think > it's important to keep this project reasonable and road > trailerable (even if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > (and not tractor trailers). > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > single-vessel barge would be best (and would conform to the > KISS guidelines), but it would sure be nice to have a > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck in > terms of diving per ocean trip. Opinions? >? > > On > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > That would be > easier.? Maybe we should all be on the lookout for used > barge that we could do a make over on. > > > Cliff > > >? From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles" >? >? To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > >? Sent: Friday, September > 5, 2014 4:38 PM >? Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > Is there any > kind of used boat we could buy and modify > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > Sent from my > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message > -------- > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles? > Date:09/05/2014 > 3:57 PM? (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion? > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > From a practical point of >? view, if we did build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > be fairly simple and follow the KISS principle to get it of > the drawing board and built by a committee.? I for one > don't have the time to design a self powered ship.? I > am thinking a larger version of a typical pontoon boat that > could be towed by the Boston Whaler.? We would need someone > like Jon to be able to set up something like a dropbox > account that anyone could populate with files, drawing, > sketches, CAD files? etc.? We would have to collectively > establish the overall capability of the barge ( how many > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems such as lights). > Someone that has a 3-D cad program like Inventor or > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > folks come up with and build out 3-D model that we could > collectively critique and make suggested changes to. > Someone would need to do >? the basic >? stability calcs with loaded or > partially loaded deck.? Some one would need to do some > research on launch and retrieval systems, such as davits > or winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) would need to > review the construction drawing to make sure welding plan is > workable.? Someone would have to figure out where you would > store the barge when not in use.? Some one would need to > figure out a coating plan for the barge.? Someone would > have to take on looking at what regulations we would need to > meet to use this in the Florida Keys.? Someone would have > to do a material takeoff off construction drawings and > figure out the cost to build and establish a budget.? If we > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group and > see how many would be willing to split the cost to fabricate > based on the estimated cost.? We would need someone to > agree >? to fabricate the weldments and assembly.? We would need > to >? figure out where to build it and what it > would cost to transport it the Keys.? We would have to > figure out how to register such a barge. Would Psubs own the > barge or would it make since for Doug to own?? Are there > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so who > would be liable?? We would need someone that is not > currently building a psub to agree to be the Barge > Bulldog! > > Or if someone > would agree to do all the above, maybe we just pass the hat > and let them do it. > > Cliff > > > ________________________________ >? From: Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > 2015 >??? > > > What a rig Brian, and a decomp > chamber to >? boot! > I like the idea of a group-designed > and group-built support ship, my only concern being the > logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. > I'm sure it could be done well given the proper > leadership and organization though, especially considering > the diverse skillset we would share as a team from designing > to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 21:34:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:34:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline Message-ID: <1409967251.67349.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water that looked like it was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. New depth record is 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 21:41:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:41:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge In-Reply-To: <1409963487.33813.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1B267313-E47F-446E-83BD-150D9102FAF7@gmail.com> <1409963487.33813.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan certainly raises some good points to consider. The swells on the oceanside can get pretty crazy and can be hard to deal with even on an average day. My original thought was that we would store the barge out of the water in the field beside our house down in the keys. We would need to ensure that corrosion resistant materials and hardware were used throughout to prevent deterioration in the harsh environment down there, but I think we'd be okay. But as the discussion turned to more of a group-owned barge idea, I began to picture a more modular design that we could trailer to other convention locations for sub support wherever we needed it. The barge would have full maneuverability on its own via a small outboard (or perhaps even an electric thruster system), but would rely on a tow vessel for traveling long distances. Of course all of this is just theoretical at this point. Launching with a jib boom on a small boat would certainly be difficult on the oceanside, but I think with a catamaran-style barge and a gantry arrangement it would be possible. Brian made a good suggestion that perhaps when launching two submersibles in tandem, both could be lowered partway into the water to reduce the center of gravity, and when the first sub off was completely free of the gantry, the weight-in-air of the second vessel would already be greatly reduced, allowing more stability. The speed to be gained in transit with the use of a barge is important (especially considering the heat of the Florida sun), but pales in comparison with the ability to enter and exist submersibles with low freeboard on the oceanside. Unfortunately last fall we had to completely abort a dive with Snoopy for this reason. I don't know who was more disappointed, Alec or me! ~ Douglas S. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 8:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > I have to agree with Alan, barges are a big deal to store etc. I am lucky > to have stuff around to work with, one mans junk is another mans treasure > :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 8:12 PM > > That is outrageously > good, and the cost is crazy low for the result. Plus, I love > the small items you just happen to have lying around in the > parts bin. > > Hank, we should > all just buy it off you for two grand so you double your > investment, and we'd still be getting it for a small > fraction of what it would cost new. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:56 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > I built my > barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had > laying around. > > Hank > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26 > PM > > > > Sounds like a > lot of $$$ > > dollar signs ! I wonder if > the subs > > were partially in the water if > it might make the barge more > > stable. > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > > From: > Douglas Suhr via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: > > Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs > Barge > > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58 > -0400 > > > > Or even > > if we could just find a couple of nice, > big aluminum tubes > > or fiberglass hulls > to work with, that would give us a major > > head start on designing the rest of the > system. > > Before we do anything else > though, I > > think we should consider > weights and sizes. Do we want to be > > > able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an > > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two > small subs > > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a > fairly dense item so trying to > > handle > two subs at once may present issues with stability > > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and > the second sub is > > on one end of the > barge, thrown in with a mix of wave > > > action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a > > possible solution but would present its > own challenges and > > dangers). > > I'd > > love to say > we'll just build it bigger, but I think > > it's important to keep this project > reasonable and road > > trailerable (even > if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles > > (and not tractor trailers). > > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a > > single-vessel barge would be best (and > would conform to the > > KISS guidelines), > but it would sure be nice to have a > > > two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck > in > > terms of diving per ocean trip. > Opinions? > > > > > > On > > Fri, Sep 5, 2014 > at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > That would > be > > easier. Maybe we should all be on > the lookout for used > > barge that we > could do a make over on. > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > From: "swaters at waters-ks.com > > via Personal_Submersibles" > > > > To: Personal > > > Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Sent: Friday, > September > > 5, 2014 4:38 PM > > Subject: Re: > > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge > > > > > > Is there any > > kind of used boat we could buy and > modify > > it?Thanks,Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my > > U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > -------- Original > message > > -------- > > > From: Cliff Redus via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > > Date:09/05/2014 > > 3:57 PM (GMT-06:00) > > > To: Personal > > > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs > Barge > > > > From a > practical point of > > view, if we did > build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to > > be fairly simple and follow the KISS > principle to get it of > > the drawing > board and built by a committee. I for one > > don't have the time to design a self > powered ship. I > > am thinking a larger > version of a typical pontoon boat that > > > could be towed by the Boston Whaler. We would need > someone > > like Jon to be able to set up > something like a dropbox > > account that > anyone could populate with files, drawing, > > sketches, CAD files etc. We would have > to collectively > > establish the overall > capability of the barge ( how many > > > psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for > > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems > such as lights). > > Someone that has a > 3-D cad program like Inventor or > > > Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas > > folks come up with and build out 3-D model > that we could > > collectively critique and > make suggested changes to. > > Someone > would need to do > > the basic > > stability calcs with loaded or > > partially loaded deck. Some one would > need to do some > > research on launch and > retrieval systems, such as davits > > or > winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations. > > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance) > would need to > > review the construction > drawing to make sure welding plan is > > > workable. Someone would have to figure out where you > would > > store the barge when not in > use. Some one would need to > > figure > out a coating plan for the barge. Someone would > > have to take on looking at what > regulations we would need to > > meet to > use this in the Florida Keys. Someone would have > > to do a material takeoff off construction > drawings and > > figure out the cost to > build and establish a budget. If we > > > did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group > and > > see how many would be willing to > split the cost to fabricate > > based on > the estimated cost. We would need someone to > > agree > > to fabricate > the weldments and assembly. We would need > > to > > figure out where > to build it and what it > > would cost to > transport it the Keys. We would have to > > figure out how to register such a barge. > Would Psubs own the > > barge or would it > make since for Doug to own? Are there > > > any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so > who > > would be liable? We would need > someone that is not > > currently building > a psub to agree to be the Barge > > > Bulldog! > > > > Or if > someone > > would agree to do all the > above, maybe we just pass the hat > > and > let them do it. > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Douglas Suhr via > Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > > > > > Sent: Friday, > September 5, 2014 3:13 PM > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference > > > 2015 > > > > > > > > > What a rig > Brian, and a decomp > > chamber to > > boot! > > I like the > idea of a group-designed > > and > group-built support ship, my only concern being the > > logistics of coordinating a project of > that magnitude. > > I'm sure it could > be done well given the proper > > > leadership and organization though, especially > considering > > the diverse skillset we > would share as a team from designing > > to > fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain > > about the benefits of a support barge. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline > Attachment Follows----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 21:42:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:42:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline In-Reply-To: <1409967251.67349.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1409967251.67349.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D1978AE631C8BD-30C4-1F1E7@webmail-m220.sysops.aol.com> Hank, Way to go! Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Fri, Sep 5, 2014 9:34 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water that looked like it was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. New depth record is 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 21:44:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:44:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference 2015 In-Reply-To: References: <20140902131929.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e14ab0a683.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Steve, thanks for the info. While I appreciate the offer, please don't go out of your way just to get me in. If we decide to represent ourselves at ISR perhaps I could tag along, otherwise, no big deal. ~ Douglas S. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 8:24 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doug let's see what the final decision is and if you want to attend > (assuming we don't hold the conference there) I will help get you details > and make arrangements for you. > > Normally since it is held on an active military facility it isn't open to > the general public for security reasons. > > Steve > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> What a rig Brian, and a decomp chamber to boot! >> >> I like the idea of a group-designed and group-built support ship, my only >> concern being the logistics of coordinating a project of that magnitude. >> I'm sure it could be done well given the proper leadership and organization >> though, especially considering the diverse skillset we would share as a >> team from designing to fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain >> about the benefits of a support barge. >> >> Thanks for your go-between work Steve. I must admit I was rather unaware >> of the ISR event until "snooping" through some of Alec's videos. I'm quite >> intrigued and may well attend this coming year's event regardless of what >> is decided as a group. Is attendance open to the general public? ~ Douglas >> S. >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> The initial feedback from the International Submarine Races (ISR) seems >>> positive to allowing us to piggy back our conference on their event. Their >>> event in 2015 is June 22-26. >>> >>> However based on the comments in this thread it seems members prefer >>> Florida (OK w/me). Therefore I don't want them to go too far up their >>> chain of command if we know it isn't likely we will go that route. >>> >>> I can of course work it for 2017 (their next event) if desired. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey guys, >>>> Wanted to give everyone a update on the next psubs convention. At this >>>> years conference in Vancouver / Washington we had a discussion of where >>>> everyone wanted to go. The following is in order what we came up with >>>> >>>> First choice) Woods Hole, Massachusetts (See Alvin and Deep sea >>>> challenger) >>>> Scond choice) Manned power submarine races (Our biggest potential for >>>> new members) >>>> Third choice) Florida Keys (Dive on the USS Vandenburg) >>>> >>>> Dan Lance and Steve McQueen are helping to figure out if the first two >>>> choices would work. More info about next years conference will come out >>>> soon. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Scott Waters >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 21:50:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 08:50:00 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline In-Reply-To: <8D1978AE631C8BD-30C4-1F1E7@webmail-m220.sysops.aol.com> References: <1409967251.67349.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D1978AE631C8BD-30C4-1F1E7@webmail-m220.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Congratulations Hank, as you say,"onward & downward" I am getting my posts back x 3. either the internet doesn't work here or something screwy happens. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/09/2014, at 8:42 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > Way to go! > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Fri, Sep 5, 2014 9:34 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline > > Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed > from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water that looked like it > was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. New depth record is > 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 22:00:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 19:00:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1409968851.63824.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Thanks' Did you get to Indonesia to look at those thrusters? I am very interested to hear your findings. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 9:50 PM Congratulations Hank,as you say,"onward & downward"I am getting my posts back x 3. either the internet doesn't work hereor ?something screwy happens.Alan Sent from my iPad On 6/09/2014, at 8:42 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Way to go! Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Fri, Sep 5, 2014 9:34 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water that looked like it was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. New depth record is 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 22:09:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 19:09:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline In-Reply-To: <8D1978AE631C8BD-30C4-1F1E7@webmail-m220.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1409969348.57105.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Thanks' I had a bit of a fright, I have to surface super slow. Well the rookie at the helm let out to much air and I went down again, well for some reason the sub was not going up! not sure what happened but eventually it went up. Almost needed my spare shorts,lol. I have learned a great way to save hp air, I give just enough air to surface till the ct windows are half way out then I bypass the hp air tank and use the compressor to blow the tanks. Saves lots of battery power also. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/5/14, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 9:42 PM Hank, Way to go! Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Fri, Sep 5, 2014 9:34 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water that looked like it was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. New depth record is 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 5 22:18:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 09:18:40 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline In-Reply-To: <1409968851.63824.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1409968851.63824.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <347EBBB1-4D91-451F-A7AF-D0AA83A9A1D7@yahoo.com> Hi Hank, Still getting Dental work done here on Koh Samui for another week or two. Have not booked a flight out yet, so will look at prices & options when he is finished. There is an international airport quite close to the thruster factory. The Dentist is only on Koh Samui Wed Thurs Fri, so rest of the time I sail to Koh Tao for some awesome diving. It would be easy for someone like yourself to set up a small submarine operation on Koh Tao. Not many rules here. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 6/09/2014, at 9:00 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Thanks' > Did you get to Indonesia to look at those thrusters? I am very interested to hear your findings. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/5/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 9:50 PM > > Congratulations > Hank,as you say,"onward & > downward"I am getting my posts back x 3. > either the internet doesn't work hereor > something screwy happens.Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 6/09/2014, at 8:42 am, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hank, > Way to go! > > Vance > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles > > Sent: Fri, Sep 5, 2014 9:34 pm > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline > > > > > > > > > > Today I experienced my first > thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed > from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water > that looked like it > was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. > New depth record is > 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 07:47:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 07:47:20 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline In-Reply-To: <1409967251.67349.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1409967251.67349.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank thanks for the updates. Steve On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water > changed from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water that > looked like it was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. > New depth record is 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 08:30:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:30:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1410006636.53449.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Steve, I am glad you said that, I was starting to think I was boring everyone with my tidbits. I know I like hearing about other dives and the detailed reports from Alec. I also like pictures. I have some spectacular pictures to post but am having trouble getting into my psub account. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 9/6/14, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, September 6, 2014, 7:47 AM Hank thanks for the updates. Steve On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed from beautiful blue to brown.? There was a layer of water that looked like it was boiling between the two layers.? Very weird, but cool.? New depth record is 105 feet.? Need a new lake now to get deeper. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 09:19:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 06:19:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline Message-ID: <20140906061942.43FEC7A1@m0005299.ppops.net> I like hearing the updates , but it makes me jealous ! --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:30:36 -0700 Steve, I am glad you said that, I was starting to think I was boring everyone with my tidbits. I know I like hearing about other dives and the detailed reports from Alec. I also like pictures. I have some spectacular pictures to post but am having trouble getting into my psub account. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 9/6/14, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, September 6, 2014, 7:47 AM Hank thanks for the updates. Steve On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed from beautiful blue to brown.? There was a layer of water that looked like it was boiling between the two layers.? Very weird, but cool.? New depth record is 105 feet.? Need a new lake now to get deeper. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 11:05:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 08:05:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermocline Message-ID: <001801cfc9e3$ee5a7ae0$cb0f70a0$@telus.net> Me too... I gotta retire or something. Everyone, please post updates of all progress, milestones and events. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-06-14 6:20 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline I like hearing the updates , but it makes me jealous ! --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:30:36 -0700 Steve, I am glad you said that, I was starting to think I was boring everyone with my tidbits. I know I like hearing about other dives and the detailed reports from Alec. I also like pictures. I have some spectacular pictures to post but am having trouble getting into my psub account. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 9/6/14, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thermolcline To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, September 6, 2014, 7:47 AM Hank thanks for the updates. Steve On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Today I experienced my first thermocline, right at 40 feet the water changed from beautiful blue to brown. There was a layer of water that looked like it was boiling between the two layers. Very weird, but cool. New depth record is 105 feet. Need a new lake now to get deeper. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 11:49:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 08:49:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Message-ID: <1410018546.83633.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Just put a new video on YouTube under Gamma Submarine it is part one Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 12:39:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 09:39:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1410018546.83633.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410018546.83633.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01cfc9f1$2d0223d0$87066b70$@telus.net> Sorry, Hank. The YouTube path didn't appear in your post. Please resend. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-06-14 8:49 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Just put a new video on YouTube under Gamma Submarine it is part one Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 13:37:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 10:37:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <001a01cfc9f1$2d0223d0$87066b70$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1410025056.74196.YahooMailBasic@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FntPcnjtqkg -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 9/6/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Date: Saturday, September 6, 2014, 11:39 AM Sorry, Hank.? The YouTube path didn't appear in your post. Please resend. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-06-14 8:49 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Just put a new video on YouTube? under Gamma Submarine? it is part one Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 13:59:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 10:59:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <001a01cfc9f1$2d0223d0$87066b70$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1410026365.49772.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim there are two video's now, I have 6 to post, it is quite tricky to video with my phone and operate the sub,lol. I will keep posting, it is very slow. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 9/6/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, September 6, 2014, 12:39 PM Sorry, Hank.? The YouTube path didn't appear in your post. Please resend. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-06-14 8:49 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Just put a new video on YouTube? under Gamma Submarine? it is part one Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 18:57:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 15:57:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor pod Message-ID: <20140906155710.43C6FE9C@m0048137.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 19:50:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 06:50:50 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor pod In-Reply-To: <20140906155710.43C6FE9C@m0048137.ppops.net> References: <20140906155710.43C6FE9C@m0048137.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, I was loooking for a very good link I posted on psubs about sealing canisters; by a firm that specialised in building them. Can't find. Only have my Ipad & it's bookmarked on my laptop. Someone else may have book marked it. It gave various sealing options & gave the pros & cons. Here is one of many articles. http://cornerstonerobotics.org/curriculum/lessons_year3/eriii7_pressure_hulls_canisters2.pdf This one is based on the book "underwater robotics, science design & fabrication". If you Google sealing a canister or home built canister you may find a few designs to choose from. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/09/2014, at 5:57 am, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I*'m working on designing my motor pods. Where I'm at right now is a 10" diameter pipe with hemispheres on each end, the hemisphere with the motor shaft coming thru will be welded on but the other one will basically be like a small hatch with an o ring on the hemisphere side. And instead of a hinge I'll have a bolt in the center ( with o ring) to secure it down. I guess I'll need to have some sort of finish ( like stainless) where the hemi "hatch" mates to the pipe, and machine a o ring groove. I will have to add some small flange to those edges since the pipe is only .365 thick. I would like the option of either having the pod oil filled or dry . For all the Kittridge folks out there, is this basically how your motor pods are sealed? > > Thanks, Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 6 23:48:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 10:48:12 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor pod In-Reply-To: References: <20140906155710.43C6FE9C@m0048137.ppops.net> Message-ID: <6F49CF38-817C-4267-8D5E-C4E4EF05B83B@yahoo.com> Brian, this could be the site I mentioned. A lot you can glean if you look around it. http://prevco.com/products/subsea-housings/seal-configuration Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/09/2014, at 6:50 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Brian, > I was loooking for a very good link I posted on psubs about sealing canisters; by a firm > that specialised in building them. Can't find. Only have my Ipad & it's bookmarked on my laptop. > Someone else may have book marked it. It gave various sealing options & gave the pros & cons. > Here is one of many articles. > http://cornerstonerobotics.org/curriculum/lessons_year3/eriii7_pressure_hulls_canisters2.pdf > This one is based on the book "underwater robotics, science design & fabrication". > If you Google sealing a canister or home built canister you may find a few designs to choose from. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7/09/2014, at 5:57 am, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I*'m working on designing my motor pods. Where I'm at right now is a 10" diameter pipe with hemispheres on each end, the hemisphere with the motor shaft coming thru will be welded on but the other one will basically be like a small hatch with an o ring on the hemisphere side. And instead of a hinge I'll have a bolt in the center ( with o ring) to secure it down. I guess I'll need to have some sort of finish ( like stainless) where the hemi "hatch" mates to the pipe, and machine a o ring groove. I will have to add some small flange to those edges since the pipe is only .365 thick. I would like the option of either having the pod oil filled or dry . For all the Kittridge folks out there, is this basically how your motor pods are sealed? >> >> Thanks, Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 00:47:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 21:47:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor pod Message-ID: <20140906214753.43C5FA95@m0005310.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 02:29:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:29:06 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor pod In-Reply-To: <20140906214753.43C5FA95@m0005310.ppops.net> References: <20140906214753.43C5FA95@m0005310.ppops.net> Message-ID: <7FAB5D5E-FB3D-4660-8419-8349624798F3@yahoo.com> Hi Brian, I am on Koh Tao Island, Thailand, staying at this place... http://www.montalayresort-kohtao.com US $20- per night, has it's own padi dive centre & restaurant. Even has Wifi that works. The snorkelling in the bay is like being in a tropical fish tank. I think I have discovered Shangri-La. ( for divers anyway ) If you followed the rules & used the right primers & coatings you would be OK. But that can be a lot of trouble for a small item. It would possibly mean buying paint guns that can handle epoxy. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/09/2014, at 11:47 am, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, Are you still in Thailand ? or Indonesia some place ? > > I think those configurations presuppose that the material is noncorrosive, like anodized aluminum or stainless, I was wanting to do some type of piston seal until I realized it would just rust without some sort of overlay or something. I don't think an epoxy coating would work for very long in that situation. > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor pod > Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 10:48:12 +0700 > > Brian, > this could be the site I mentioned. A lot you can glean if you look around it. > http://prevco.com/products/subsea-housings/seal-configuration > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 6:50 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Brian, > I was loooking for a very good link I posted on psubs about sealing canisters; by a firm > that specialised in building them. Can't find. Only have my Ipad & it's bookmarked on my laptop. > Someone else may have book marked it. It gave various sealing options & gave the pros & cons. > Here is one of many articles. > http://cornerstonerobotics.org/curriculum/lessons_year3/eriii7_pressure_hulls_canisters2.pdf > This one is based on the book "underwater robotics, science design & fabrication". > If you Google sealing a canister or home built canister you may find a few designs to choose from. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 5:57 am, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I*'m working on designing my motor pods. Where I'm at right now is a 10" diameter pipe with hemispheres on each end, the hemisphere with the motor shaft coming thru will be welded on but the other one will basically be like a small hatch with an o ring on the hemisphere side. And instead of a hinge I'll have a bolt in the center ( with o ring) to secure it down. I guess I'll need to have some sort of finish ( like stainless) where the hemi "hatch" mates to the pipe, and machine a o ring groove. I will have to add some small flange to those edges since the pipe is only .365 thick. I would like the option of either having the pod oil filled or dry . For all the Kittridge folks out there, is this basically how your motor pods are sealed? > > Thanks, Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 07:58:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:58:56 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Message-ID: Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 08:22:35 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 05:22:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1410092555.58525.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 09:43:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:43:49 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410092555.58525.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410092555.58525.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> Hi Hank, the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. ( I am designing an art work here.) I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the back of the motor? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Allan > Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? > Hank > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > Hi people, > I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) > I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 10:07:20 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:07:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1410098840.10764.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 11:35:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 09:35:49 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410098840.10764.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410098840.10764.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7cfebbcc-b847-40b8-a860-579553140dd9@email.android.com> How much torque is required to slip your magnetic coupling? Sean On September 7, 2014 8:07:20 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Alan >When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy >thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to >Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a >ball bearing and never look back. >Hank > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 12:03:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 23:03:41 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410098840.10764.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410098840.10764.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <866F524E-FC71-4D80-8137-E9E7646829DA@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, in hindsight, the thrust bearing would have to be in the planetary gearbox. This may simplify things as I could possibly mount a gearbox with thrust bearing on to any suitable motor. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/09/2014, at 9:07 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan > When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back. > Hank > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; with > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM > > Hi Hank, > the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. > ( I am designing an art work here.) > I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but > I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. > There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. > I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. > I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but > couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. > Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. > How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the back > of the motor? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Allan >> Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? >> Hank >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM >> >> Hi people, >> I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >> The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) >> I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't >> know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. >> Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 13:01:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:01:36 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <866F524E-FC71-4D80-8137-E9E7646829DA@yahoo.com> References: <1410098840.10764.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <866F524E-FC71-4D80-8137-E9E7646829DA@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D198D484332DED-2A00-24ECF@webmail-m243.sysops.aol.com> Alan, You could take the thrust issue out of the system entirely by the addition of your thrust bearings in the seal package. Use a flexible coupling between inner shaft stub and gear or motor output, then all you have to plan for is torque. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Thanks Hank, in hindsight, the thrust bearing would have to be in the planetary gearbox. This may simplify things as I could possibly mount a gearbox with thrust bearing on to any suitable motor. Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 9:07 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back. Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; with To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM Hi Hank, the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. ( I am designing an art work here.) I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the back of the motor? Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 16:21:09 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:21:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <7cfebbcc-b847-40b8-a860-579553140dd9@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1410121269.14158.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, I do not have a clue how much torque it takes. The coupler, I figure is for a 5hp electric motor. I am running 2 hp, so I have not worried about it. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 11:35 AM How much torque is required to slip your magnetic coupling? Sean On September 7, 2014 8:07:20 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back. Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM Hi Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff.?( I am designing an art work here.)I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price.There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about.I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, butcouldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit.Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? ?Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof the motor?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) ? I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 16:22:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:22:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] boat hauler. Message-ID: <1410121328.19834.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 16:26:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:26:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] boat hauler Message-ID: <1410121610.94663.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Today I built a boat hauler for my 14 foot boat. I want to be able to bring my boat with my sub for long hauls. I cut my boat trailer down and mounted it inside the box of my truck. The reach and winch go up over the roof and the boat motor is right at the hand crank for the sub trailer. My wife is still shaking her head. I told her I can weld it all back together if it doesn't work out,lol. I am testing it in a couple hr. No guts no glory I say. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 16:29:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:29:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Message-ID: <20140907132956.43C5058A@m0005310.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 16:42:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:42:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <20140907132956.43C5058A@m0005310.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1410122564.95041.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, You can use a simple mechanical seal, that is what the K subs have. An 891 Chesterton mechanical seal is good fo 600 psi, that is what Gamma had when I got it. You can buy them on ebay for 100 bucks. Build the shaft to fit the seal, and your sailing. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:29 PM I talked to a hydraulics guy a few days ago about making a seal for my motor pod.? I told him I had a high pressure tank that I wanted to turn a shaft inside the tank to stir the contents at 250 psi,? ( didn't want his eyes to glaze over if I mentioned submarine !)? Anyway he directed me to a system using a bronze fitting that would tighten down these rings he called "cheverons"? they are mating rings of a very high durometer?.? the bronze is for mating with stainless?.? I would have to machine an assembly for this , but once I have my shaft size (1 inch most likely) I will be able to size everything accordingly.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:07:20 -0700 Alan When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back. Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM Hi Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff.?( I am designing an art work here.)I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price.There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about.I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, butcouldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit.Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? ?Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof the motor?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) ? I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 16:50:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 13:50:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410122564.95041.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1410123037.60216.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, Vance would know better than me, but I think if you keep the rpm under 1,000 you can use an o ring for a seal. I thought Perry did that in the early subs to 1,000 feet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:42 PM Brian, You can use a simple mechanical seal, that is what the K subs have. An 891 Chesterton mechanical seal is good fo 600 psi, that is what Gamma had when I got it.? You can buy them on ebay for 100 bucks.? Build the shaft to fit the seal, and your sailing. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:29 PM I talked to a hydraulics guy a few days ago about making a seal for my motor pod.? I told him I had a high pressure tank that I wanted to turn a shaft inside the tank to stir the contents at 250 psi,? ( didn't want his eyes to glaze over if I mentioned submarine !)? Anyway he directed me to a system using a bronze fitting that would tighten down these rings he called "cheverons"? they are mating rings of a very high durometer?.? the bronze is for mating with stainless?.? I would have to machine an assembly for this , but once I have my shaft size (1 inch most likely) I will be able to size everything accordingly.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:07:20 -0700 Alan When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get.? have since changer to Magnetic.???I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back.? Hank? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Alan via Personal_Submersibles ;? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???To: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Personal Submersibles General Discussion ;? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Hi Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff.?( I am designing an art work here.)I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price.There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about.I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, butcouldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit.Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? ?Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof the motor?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much.? They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster.???Are you not happy with the? Indonesia thrusters? ? Or to pricey? Hank? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Alan via Personal_Submersibles ;? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???To: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Personal Submersibles General Discussion ;? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???[PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) ?? I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than ? maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my ? iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 18:30:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 05:30:30 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <8D198D484332DED-2A00-24ECF@webmail-m243.sysops.aol.com> References: <1410098840.10764.YahooMailMobile@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <866F524E-FC71-4D80-8137-E9E7646829DA@yahoo.com> <8D198D484332DED-2A00-24ECF@webmail-m243.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <21440799-FBA6-4049-A769-B4BC78DE5A70@yahoo.com> Vance, that sounds like a good solution, thanks. The shafts out of most of these brushless motors are very short so a flexible coupling would be a solution to that problem as well. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/09/2014, at 12:01 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > You could take the thrust issue out of the system entirely by the addition of your thrust bearings in the seal package. Use a flexible coupling between inner shaft stub and gear or motor output, then all you have to plan for is torque. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 12:04 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > > Thanks Hank, > in hindsight, the thrust bearing would have to be in the planetary gearbox. > This may simplify things as I could possibly mount a gearbox with thrust bearing on to > any suitable motor. > Alan > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 9:07 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> >> Alan >> When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back. >> Hank >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; with >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM >> >> Hi Hank, >> the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. >> ( I am designing an art work here.) >> I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but >> I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. >> There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. >> I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. >> I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but >> couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. >> Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. >> How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the back >> of the motor? >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Allan >>> Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? >>> Hank >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >>> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM >>> >>> Hi people, >>> I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >>> The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) >>> I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't >>> know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. >>> Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 18:49:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:49:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410123037.60216.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410123037.60216.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D199051421F9C2-31B0-269F9@webmail-m202.sysops.aol.com> Hank, Harbor Branch used o-rings on the reduced output 1 1/4 thrusters on the JSLs. The mid-body on the hard can (actually the back 25% or so of the cylinder section) was machined on the output side for planetary gears, and machined on the motor side to replace the entire output plate/bearing case for the motor itself (like a golf cart motor bolts into a differential). Pretty nice and compact for the day. The rear section of the hard can behind the gear case is a hollow sand casting shaped like the long end of an egg, webbed internally to support a 1" shaft, double bearings, with double thrust bearings, and a tapered, polished, hardened aluminum sleeve pressed in from the pressure side. The shaft itself was machined to carry double o-rings in square cross section grooves and terminated on the internal end with a flex-coupling which mated (obviously) to the output of the planetary output. A big shaft was necessary to keep the jitters down to more or less zero. Everything needs to stay exactly centered, as the O-rings will go to pot a whole lot faster if there is any flex or vibration at all in that prop shaft shaft. Lots of development to get it right, finally, but the props turned about 275-300 rpm (I don't remember exactly, but something like that). 14" X 14" Kort style prop in a machined syntactic foam nozzle supported on a 4-legged frame welded to the aft part of the shell. I actually have a blueprint of it, somewhere around here. For those interested, the tip clearance between blade end and nozzle sleeve was about 50-thousandths. NOTE: That would be of an inch, Emile. There were no speed controls on the boats. Fwd-Off-Rev only. You just turned thrusters on or off to vary the push. When I was there, we had 5 for forward and reverse (3 in a row on the centerline with 1 each to port and starboard aft) plus a vertical and horizontal pair forward and aft for steering and fine maneuvering (fine maneuvering my ass!!!). That's right. NINE thrusters that probably with cabling weighed over half a ton. Plus two or three spares in the kit ready to bolt up at a moment's notice as replacements. We were definitely in the motor business with those babies. They were home grown but worked reasonably well, although they were a little noisy with the gear case and whatnot. That said, I never saw the electrical side flooded on one of those things. Not once. Ever. We had a routine service schedule and changed a thruster every so many hours of service. Just put a fresh one on (two people could do a change-out in about three minutes), then tear the to-be-serviced unit down to check brushes and bearing lube and change the shaft o-rings (which would be looking a little fuzzy by then, but still worked fine--and even if they looked brand new, we changed them). It needs a really, really first rate waterproof lubricant, as the internal shaft o-ring runs hotter than the one in contact with the water, and was often in worse shape than the one primary as a result. Once the JSLs re-certified to 3000 feet, engineering redesigned the seals for better service, using a ceramic cartridge seal in place of the o-rings, but that was after my day. I'd hate to even think what one would cost today, built commercially. You wouldn't use them, probably, as a unit with twice that power is probably a third the size and weight. Those thrusters on the Tritons, for instance, look positively tiny by comparison, and they're rated at over 2 hp. Then there's our own Uncle Dr. Phil's new mag coupled ones. Now there's a Christmas present to ask Santa for. All that aside, the o-rings will work if you plan regular service (ie, scheduled o-ring replacement) and don't wait for water intrusion. They have to be done right during construction, though. Those surfaces have to be mirror smooth. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Brian, Vance would know better than me, but I think if you keep the rpm under 1,000 you can use an o ring for a seal. I thought Perry did that in the early subs to 1,000 feet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:42 PM Brian, You can use a simple mechanical seal, that is what the K subs have. An 891 Chesterton mechanical seal is good fo 600 psi, that is what Gamma had when I got it. You can buy them on ebay for 100 bucks. Build the shaft to fit the seal, and your sailing. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:29 PM I talked to a hydraulics guy a few days ago about making a seal for my motor pod. I told him I had a high pressure tank that I wanted to turn a shaft inside the tank to stir the contents at 250 psi, ( didn't want his eyes to glaze over if I mentioned submarine !) Anyway he directed me to a system using a bronze fitting that would tighten down these rings he called "cheverons" they are mating rings of a very high durometer . the bronze is for mating with stainless . I would have to machine an assembly for this , but once I have my shaft size (1 inch most likely) I will be able to size everything accordingly. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:07:20 -0700 Alan When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get. have since changer to Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back. Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM Hi Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. ( I am designing an art work here.)I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price.There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about.I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, butcouldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit.Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof the motor?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 19:04:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 16:04:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <8D199051421F9C2-31B0-269F9@webmail-m202.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1410131078.50222.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Sounds like a good option if you have in house machining. The cartridge seal shaft is equally fussy, it took me a few try's to get it perfect. I am sure Brian is a better machinist than I am, so should be no problem. I believe the slower the rpm the better with o-ring seals. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 6:49 PM Hank, Harbor Branch used o-rings on the reduced output 1 1/4 thrusters on the JSLs. The mid-body on the hard can (actually the back 25% or so of the cylinder section) was machined on the output side for planetary gears, and machined on the motor side to replace the entire output plate/bearing case for the motor itself (like a golf cart motor bolts into a differential). Pretty nice and compact for the day. The rear section of the hard can behind the gear case is a hollow sand casting shaped like the long end of an egg, webbed internally to support a 1" shaft, double bearings, with double thrust bearings, and a tapered, polished, hardened aluminum sleeve pressed in from the pressure side. The shaft itself was machined to carry double o-rings in square cross section grooves and terminated on the internal end with a flex-coupling which mated (obviously) to the output of the planetary output. A big shaft was necessary to keep the jitters down to more or less zero. Everything needs to stay exactly centered, as the O-rings will go to pot a whole lot faster if there is any flex or vibration at all in that prop shaft shaft. Lots of development to get it right, finally, but the props turned about 275-300 rpm (I don't remember exactly, but something like that). 14" X 14" Kort style prop in a machined syntactic foam nozzle supported on a 4-legged frame welded to the aft part of the shell. I actually have a blueprint of it, somewhere around here. For those interested, the tip clearance between blade end and nozzle sleeve was about 50-thousandths. NOTE: That would be of an inch, Emile. There were no speed controls on the boats. Fwd-Off-Rev only. You just turned thrusters on or off to vary the push. When I was there, we had 5 for forward and reverse (3 in a row on the centerline with 1 each to port and starboard aft) plus a vertical and horizontal pair forward and aft for steering and fine maneuvering (fine maneuvering my ass!!!). That's right. NINE thrusters that probably with cabling weighed over half a ton. Plus two or three spares in the kit ready to bolt up at a moment's notice as replacements. We were definitely in the motor business with those babies. They were home grown but worked reasonably well, although they were a little noisy with the gear case and whatnot. That said, I never saw the electrical side flooded on one of those things. Not once. Ever. We had a routine service schedule and changed a thruster every so many hours of service. Just put a fresh one on (two people could do a change-out in about three minutes), then tear the to-be-serviced unit down to check brushes and bearing lube and change the shaft o-rings (which would be looking a little fuzzy by then, but still worked fine--and even if they looked brand new, we changed them). It needs a really, really first rate waterproof lubricant, as the internal shaft o-ring runs hotter than the one in contact with the water, and was often in worse shape than the one primary as a result. Once the JSLs re-certified to 3000 feet, engineering redesigned the seals for better service, using a ceramic cartridge seal in place of the o-rings, but that was after my day.?I'd hate to even think what one would cost today, built commercially. You wouldn't use them, probably, as a unit with twice that power is probably a third the size and weight. Those thrusters on the Tritons, for instance, look positively tiny by comparison, and they're rated at over 2 hp. Then there's our own Uncle Dr. Phil's new mag coupled ones. Now there's a Christmas present to ask Santa for. All that aside, the o-rings will work if you plan regular service (ie, scheduled o-ring replacement) and don't wait for water intrusion. They have to be done right during construction, though. Those surfaces have to be mirror smooth. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Brian, Vance would know better than me, but I think if you keep the rpm under 1,000 you can use an o ring for a seal. I thought Perry did that in the early subs to 1,000 feet. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:42 PM Brian, You can use a simple mechanical seal, that is what the K subs have. An 891 Chesterton mechanical seal is good fo 600 psi, that is what Gamma had when I got it.? You can buy them on ebay for 100 bucks.? Build the shaft to fit the seal, and your sailing. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:29 PM I talked to a hydraulics guy a few days ago about making a seal for my motor pod.? I told him I had a high pressure tank that I wanted to turn a shaft inside the tank to stir the contents at 250 psi,? ( didn't want his eyes to glaze over if I mentioned submarine !)? Anyway he directed me to a system using a bronze fitting that would tighten down these rings he called "cheverons"? they are mating rings of a very high durometer?.? the bronze is for mating with stainless?.? I would have to machine an assembly for this , but once I have my shaft size (1 inch most likely) I will be able to size everything accordingly.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:07:20 -0700 Alan When I upgraded the cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty Beafy thrust bearing, it was no problem to get.? have since changer to Magnetic.???I think you could replace the bushing in a thruster with a ball bearing and never look back.? Hank? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Alan via Personal_Submersibles ;? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???To: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Personal Submersibles General Discussion ;? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Hi Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff.?( I am designing an art work here.)I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price.There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about.I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, butcouldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit.Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? ?Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof the motor?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much.? They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster.???Are you not happy with the? Indonesia thrusters? ? Or to pricey? Hank? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Alan via Personal_Submersibles ;? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???To: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Personal Submersibles General Discussion ;? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???[PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) ?? I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than ? maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my ? iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 19:20:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 16:20:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] boat hauler In-Reply-To: <1410121610.94663.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410121610.94663.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005201cfcaf2$5f708620$1e519260$@telus.net> This sounds really interesting, Hank. I was considering getting one of those electric boat racks to put my chase boat (or wet sub) on the top of my truck. Please post a photo asap and let us know how well yours works out. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-07-14 1:27 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] boat hauler Today I built a boat hauler for my 14 foot boat. I want to be able to bring my boat with my sub for long hauls. I cut my boat trailer down and mounted it inside the box of my truck. The reach and winch go up over the roof and the boat motor is right at the hand crank for the sub trailer. My wife is still shaking her head. I told her I can weld it all back together if it doesn't work out,lol. I am testing it in a couple hr. No guts no glory I say. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 19:21:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 19:21:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410131078.50222.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410131078.50222.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Low rpm was the key. Much faster and the rubber overheats. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 7, 2014, at 7:04 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, > Sounds like a good option if you have in house machining. The cartridge seal shaft is equally fussy, it took me a few try's to get it perfect. I am sure Brian is a better machinist than I am, so should be no problem. > I believe the slower the rpm the better with o-ring seals. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/7/14, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 6:49 PM > > Hank, > > > > > Harbor Branch used o-rings on the reduced output 1 > 1/4 thrusters on the JSLs. The mid-body on the hard can > (actually the back 25% or so of the cylinder section) was > machined on the output side for planetary gears, and > machined on the motor side to replace the entire output > plate/bearing case for the motor itself (like a golf cart > motor bolts into a differential). Pretty nice and compact > for the day. > > > > > > The rear section of the hard can behind the gear > case is a hollow sand casting shaped like the long end of an > egg, webbed internally to support a 1" shaft, double > bearings, with double thrust bearings, and a tapered, > polished, hardened aluminum sleeve pressed in from the > pressure side. > > > > > > The shaft itself was machined to carry double > o-rings in square cross section grooves and terminated on > the internal end with a flex-coupling which mated > (obviously) to the output of the planetary output. A big > shaft was necessary to keep the jitters down to more or less > zero. Everything needs to stay exactly centered, as the > O-rings will go to pot a whole lot faster if there is any > flex or vibration at all in that prop shaft > shaft. > > > > > > Lots of development to get it right, finally, but > the props turned about 275-300 rpm (I don't remember > exactly, but something like that). 14" X 14" Kort > style prop in a machined syntactic foam nozzle supported on > a 4-legged frame welded to the aft part of the shell. I > actually have a blueprint of it, somewhere around here. For > those interested, the tip clearance between blade end and > nozzle sleeve was about 50-thousandths. NOTE: That would be > of an inch, Emile. > > > > > > There were no speed controls on the boats. > Fwd-Off-Rev only. You just turned thrusters on or off to > vary the push. When I was there, we had 5 for forward and > reverse (3 in a row on the centerline with 1 each to port > and starboard aft) plus a vertical and horizontal pair > forward and aft for steering and fine maneuvering (fine > maneuvering my ass!!!). That's right. NINE thrusters > that probably with cabling weighed over half a ton. Plus two > or three spares in the kit ready to bolt up at a > moment's notice as replacements. We were definitely in > the motor business with those babies. > > > > > > They were home grown but worked reasonably well, > although they were a little noisy with the gear case and > whatnot. That said, I never saw the electrical side flooded > on one of those things. Not once. Ever. We had a routine > service schedule and changed a thruster every so many hours > of service. Just put a fresh one on (two people could do a > change-out in about three minutes), then tear the > to-be-serviced unit down to check brushes and bearing lube > and change the shaft o-rings (which would be looking a > little fuzzy by then, but still worked fine--and even if > they looked brand new, we changed them). It needs a really, > really first rate waterproof lubricant, as the internal > shaft o-ring runs hotter than the one in contact with the > water, and was often in worse shape than the one primary as > a result. > > > > > > Once the JSLs re-certified to 3000 feet, > engineering redesigned the seals for better service, using a > ceramic cartridge seal in place of the o-rings, but that was > after my day. I'd hate to even think what > one would cost today, built commercially. You wouldn't > use them, probably, as a unit with twice that power is > probably a third the size and weight. > > > > > > Those thrusters on the Tritons, > for instance, look positively tiny by comparison, and > they're rated at over 2 hp. Then there's our own > Uncle Dr. Phil's new mag coupled ones. Now there's a > Christmas present to ask Santa for. > > > > > > All that aside, the o-rings will > work if you plan regular service (ie, scheduled o-ring > replacement) and don't wait for water intrusion. They > have to be done right during construction, though. Those > surfaces have to be mirror smooth. > > > > > > Vance > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 4:51 pm > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > > > > > > > > > > > Brian, > Vance would know better than me, but I think if you keep the > rpm under 1,000 you > can use an o ring for a seal. I thought Perry did that in > the early subs to > 1,000 feet. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:42 PM > > > Brian, > You can use a simple > mechanical seal, that is what the K subs have. An 891 > Chesterton mechanical seal is good fo 600 psi, that is what > Gamma had when I got it. You can buy them on ebay for 100 > bucks. Build the shaft to fit the seal, and your > sailing. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/7/14, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:29 > PM > > I > > talked to a hydraulics guy a few days ago about making a > seal for my motor pod. I told him I had a > high pressure > tank that I wanted to turn a > shaft inside the tank to stir > the contents > at 250 psi, ( didn't want his eyes to > > glaze over if I mentioned submarine !) Anyway he > directed > me to a system using a bronze > fitting that would tighten > down these rings > he called "cheverons" they are > > mating rings of a very high durometer . the bronze is > for > mating with stainless . I would have > to machine an > assembly for this , but once > I have my shaft size (1 inch > most likely) I > will be able to size everything > > accordingly. Brian > > > --- > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk > via Personal_Submersibles > > To: > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Brushless Thrusters > Date: > > Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:07:20 -0700 > > Alan > When I upgraded the > cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty > Beafy thrust > bearing, it was no problem to > get. have since changer to > > Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing > in a > thruster with a ball bearing and never > look back. > Hank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > Alan via Personal_Submersibles > ; > > > > > > > To: > > > > Personal Submersibles General > > Discussion ; > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless > Thrusters > > > > > > Sent: > > > > Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hank,the kort > > nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit > Naff. ( I am designing an art work > here.)I could get a price for the unit > without > kort nozzle, butI'm wondering > if I could > build something for 1/2 that > price.There are some > reasonably priced > brushless motors about.I > don't know > that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing > inside the can of the motor.I tried to put > a > thrust bearing for reverse inside my > brushed thrusters, > butcouldn't find one > with a thin enough > section to fit.Also the > motors are a bit > expensive to just buy > & hope you can fit > one.How did you fit > the thrust bearing on Gamma? > Did the > propellor shaft extend out the backof > the > motor?Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk > via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Allan > Dont > worry about > thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, > I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for > 80 dollars. > Personally I would just use a > good quality bearing and > replace it once a > year for 8 bucks, if it is a small > > thruster. Are you not happy with the > Indonesia thrusters? > Or to pricey? > Hank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > ; > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > Personal Submersibles > General > Discussion ; > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless > Thrusters > > > > > > Sent: > > > > Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi people, > I've > spent several hours today looking at brushless > thrusters > & wonder if anyone else has > looked at them or got any > ideas. There is > the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks > back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing > Protruar 2hp > that Emile has; however they > state that it's for fresh > water only, > & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding > on > the outside, seem a good option as they > cool through > convection to the can. They > also need higher revs for torque > & > require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot > have built in) > I was > looking at the > option of making my own > thruster, however the motor would > require a > thrust bearing & I don't > know of > any that would have one other than > maybe > a high powered battery operated drill. > Any > thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from > > my > iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 19:44:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 16:44:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] boat hauler In-Reply-To: <005201cfcaf2$5f708620$1e519260$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1410133498.38709.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim, I just plucked my 14 foot misty river with 35hp out of the lake with my set up. My boat is a wee bit long, a 12 foot would be better. I took the rack off the truck because I need the truck for work tomorrow. When I put it back in I will take a pic for you. It works pretty sweet lol. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/7/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] boat hauler To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 7:20 PM This sounds really interesting, Hank. I was considering getting one of those electric boat racks to put my chase boat (or wet sub) on the top of my truck.? Please post a photo asap and let us know how well yours works out. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-07-14 1:27 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] boat hauler Today I built a boat hauler for my 14 foot boat.? I want to be able to bring my boat with my sub for long hauls.? I cut my boat trailer down and mounted it inside the box of my truck.? The reach and winch go up over the roof and the boat motor is right at the hand crank for the sub trailer.? My wife is still shaking her head.? I told her I can weld it all back together if it doesn't work out,lol.? I am testing it in a couple hr.? No guts no glory I say. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 20:02:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 18:02:33 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: References: <1410131078.50222.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8b36620a-1c25-49a4-a05f-ec5f9e88c448@email.android.com> The Parker O-ring Handbook includes design guidelines for such dynamic shaft seals, including maximum surface speeds and so forth. I have used this on several occasions to design rotary shaft seals. Sean On September 7, 2014 5:21:33 PM MDT, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Low rpm was the key. Much faster and the rubber overheats. >Vance > >Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 7, 2014, at 7:04 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Vance, >> Sounds like a good option if you have in house machining. The >cartridge seal shaft is equally fussy, it took me a few try's to get it >perfect. I am sure Brian is a better machinist than I am, so should be >no problem. >> I believe the slower the rpm the better with o-ring seals. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/7/14, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 6:49 PM >> >> Hank, >> >> >> >> >> Harbor Branch used o-rings on the reduced output 1 >> 1/4 thrusters on the JSLs. The mid-body on the hard can >> (actually the back 25% or so of the cylinder section) was >> machined on the output side for planetary gears, and >> machined on the motor side to replace the entire output >> plate/bearing case for the motor itself (like a golf cart >> motor bolts into a differential). Pretty nice and compact >> for the day. >> >> >> >> >> >> The rear section of the hard can behind the gear >> case is a hollow sand casting shaped like the long end of an >> egg, webbed internally to support a 1" shaft, double >> bearings, with double thrust bearings, and a tapered, >> polished, hardened aluminum sleeve pressed in from the >> pressure side. >> >> >> >> >> >> The shaft itself was machined to carry double >> o-rings in square cross section grooves and terminated on >> the internal end with a flex-coupling which mated >> (obviously) to the output of the planetary output. A big >> shaft was necessary to keep the jitters down to more or less >> zero. Everything needs to stay exactly centered, as the >> O-rings will go to pot a whole lot faster if there is any >> flex or vibration at all in that prop shaft >> shaft. >> >> >> >> >> >> Lots of development to get it right, finally, but >> the props turned about 275-300 rpm (I don't remember >> exactly, but something like that). 14" X 14" Kort >> style prop in a machined syntactic foam nozzle supported on >> a 4-legged frame welded to the aft part of the shell. I >> actually have a blueprint of it, somewhere around here. For >> those interested, the tip clearance between blade end and >> nozzle sleeve was about 50-thousandths. NOTE: That would be >> of an inch, Emile. >> >> >> >> >> >> There were no speed controls on the boats. >> Fwd-Off-Rev only. You just turned thrusters on or off to >> vary the push. When I was there, we had 5 for forward and >> reverse (3 in a row on the centerline with 1 each to port >> and starboard aft) plus a vertical and horizontal pair >> forward and aft for steering and fine maneuvering (fine >> maneuvering my ass!!!). That's right. NINE thrusters >> that probably with cabling weighed over half a ton. Plus two >> or three spares in the kit ready to bolt up at a >> moment's notice as replacements. We were definitely in >> the motor business with those babies. >> >> >> >> >> >> They were home grown but worked reasonably well, >> although they were a little noisy with the gear case and >> whatnot. That said, I never saw the electrical side flooded >> on one of those things. Not once. Ever. We had a routine >> service schedule and changed a thruster every so many hours >> of service. Just put a fresh one on (two people could do a >> change-out in about three minutes), then tear the >> to-be-serviced unit down to check brushes and bearing lube >> and change the shaft o-rings (which would be looking a >> little fuzzy by then, but still worked fine--and even if >> they looked brand new, we changed them). It needs a really, >> really first rate waterproof lubricant, as the internal >> shaft o-ring runs hotter than the one in contact with the >> water, and was often in worse shape than the one primary as >> a result. >> >> >> >> >> >> Once the JSLs re-certified to 3000 feet, >> engineering redesigned the seals for better service, using a >> ceramic cartridge seal in place of the o-rings, but that was >> after my day. I'd hate to even think what >> one would cost today, built commercially. You wouldn't >> use them, probably, as a unit with twice that power is >> probably a third the size and weight. >> >> >> >> >> >> Those thrusters on the Tritons, >> for instance, look positively tiny by comparison, and >> they're rated at over 2 hp. Then there's our own >> Uncle Dr. Phil's new mag coupled ones. Now there's a >> Christmas present to ask Santa for. >> >> >> >> >> >> All that aside, the o-rings will >> work if you plan regular service (ie, scheduled o-ring >> replacement) and don't wait for water intrusion. They >> have to be done right during construction, though. Those >> surfaces have to be mirror smooth. >> >> >> >> >> >> Vance >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original >> Message----- >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 4:51 pm >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Brian, >> Vance would know better than me, but I think if you keep the >> rpm under 1,000 you >> can use an o ring for a seal. I thought Perry did that in >> the early subs to >> 1,000 feet. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/7/14, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:42 PM >> >> >> Brian, >> You can use a simple >> mechanical seal, that is what the K subs have. An 891 >> Chesterton mechanical seal is good fo 600 psi, that is what >> Gamma had when I got it. You can buy them on ebay for 100 >> bucks. Build the shaft to fit the seal, and your >> sailing. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/7/14, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Sunday, September 7, 2014, 4:29 >> PM >> >> I >> >> talked to a hydraulics guy a few days ago about making a >> seal for my motor pod. I told him I had a >> high pressure >> tank that I wanted to turn a >> shaft inside the tank to stir >> the contents >> at 250 psi, ( didn't want his eyes to >> >> glaze over if I mentioned submarine !) Anyway he >> directed >> me to a system using a bronze >> fitting that would tighten >> down these rings >> he called "cheverons" they are >> >> mating rings of a very high durometer . the bronze is >> for >> mating with stainless . I would have >> to machine an >> assembly for this , but once >> I have my shaft size (1 inch >> most likely) I >> will be able to size everything >> >> accordingly. Brian >> >> >> --- >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] >> Brushless Thrusters >> Date: >> >> Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:07:20 -0700 >> >> Alan >> When I upgraded the >> cartridge seal in Gamma, I needed a pretty >> Beafy thrust >> bearing, it was no problem to >> get. have since changer to >> >> Magnetic. I think you could replace the bushing >> in a >> thruster with a ball bearing and never >> look back. >> Hank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> >> >> >> Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> ; >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To: >> >> >> >> Personal Submersibles General >> >> Discussion ; >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Subject: >> >> >> >> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless >> Thrusters >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: >> >> >> >> Sun, Sep 7, 2014 1:43:49 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Hank,the kort >> >> nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit >> Naff. ( I am designing an art work >> here.)I could get a price for the unit >> without >> kort nozzle, butI'm wondering >> if I could >> build something for 1/2 that >> price.There are some >> reasonably priced >> brushless motors about.I >> don't know >> that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing >> inside the can of the motor.I tried to put >> a >> thrust bearing for reverse inside my >> brushed thrusters, >> butcouldn't find one >> with a thin enough >> section to fit.Also the >> motors are a bit >> expensive to just buy >> & hope you can fit >> one.How did you fit >> the thrust bearing on Gamma? >> Did the >> propellor shaft extend out the backof >> the >> motor?Alan >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk >> via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Allan >> Dont >> worry about >> thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, >> I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for >> 80 dollars. >> Personally I would just use a >> good quality bearing and >> replace it once a >> year for 8 bucks, if it is a small >> >> thruster. Are you not happy with the >> Indonesia thrusters? >> Or to pricey? >> Hank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> >> >> >> Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> ; >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To: >> >> >> >> Personal Submersibles >> General >> Discussion ; >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Subject: >> >> >> >> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless >> Thrusters >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent: >> >> >> >> Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi people, >> I've >> spent several hours today looking at brushless >> thrusters >> & wonder if anyone else has >> looked at them or got any >> ideas. There is >> the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks >> back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing >> Protruar 2hp >> that Emile has; however they >> state that it's for fresh >> water only, >> & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >> The inrunner motors that have the winding >> on >> the outside, seem a good option as they >> cool through >> convection to the can. They >> also need higher revs for torque >> & >> require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot >> have built in) >> I was >> looking at the >> option of making my own >> thruster, however the motor would >> require a >> thrust bearing & I don't >> know of >> any that would have one other than >> maybe >> a high powered battery operated drill. >> Any >> thoughts, suggestions thanks. >> Alan >> >> Sent from >> >> my >> iPad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> >> list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -----Inline Attachment >> Follows----- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 20:26:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 17:26:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video-Nuytco Message-ID: <20140907172647.43C7CB11@m0048140.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 7 21:01:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 08:01:53 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video-Nuytco In-Reply-To: <20140907172647.43C7CB11@m0048140.ppops.net> References: <20140907172647.43C7CB11@m0048140.ppops.net> Message-ID: <56C3E8C5-BD3B-4D52-92A7-3B5FA9CDC3C3@yahoo.com> Thanks Brian, some interesting comments there. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/09/2014, at 7:26 am, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here's some video at Phil's new shop, from the convention. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYB5ccnKR8M&feature=em-upload_owner > > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 8 19:16:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 16:16:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports Message-ID: <20140908161649.43C79EDD@m0048140.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 8 19:41:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 06:41:27 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports In-Reply-To: <20140908161649.43C79EDD@m0048140.ppops.net> References: <20140908161649.43C79EDD@m0048140.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1FEE5C88-4BA4-4DA7-B635-7EDA8763F298@yahoo.com> You building a tourist sub Brian? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/09/2014, at 6:16 am, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cut 23 acrylic viewports today at the local collage machining class > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 8 20:15:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 17:15:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports In-Reply-To: <20140908161649.43C79EDD@m0048140.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1410221700.90942.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, That is exciting! Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/8/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports To: "PSubs" Received: Monday, September 8, 2014, 7:16 PM Cut 23 acrylic viewports today at the local collage machining class?Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 8 22:24:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:24:03 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports In-Reply-To: <20140908161649.43C79EDD@m0048140.ppops.net> References: <20140908161649.43C79EDD@m0048140.ppops.net> Message-ID: <540E64C3.9060908@archivale.com> Details would be welcome! What are the peculiarities of machining acrylic? Marc On 9/9/2014 7:16 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cut 23 acrylic viewports today at the local collage machining class > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 8 23:12:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:12:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video -gammma underweight Message-ID: <20140908201236.43C432DD@m0005298.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 8 23:25:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:25:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports Message-ID: <20140908202505.43C4323E@m0005298.ppops.net> Basically I cut a large sheet of Acrylic (4'x 3'x 1 1/2") into squares on a table saw, then the squares I took over to the band saw and cut them into 6" dia circles. I will still need to clean them up in the lathe to get them perfectly round then anneal them.. Care needs to be taken with the cutting not to overheat the material, too fast or too slow can be a problem. The book recommended a very high cutting speed for the band saw -4000 feet per min, the saw I was using was only 650 fpm - it seemed fine, no heat. Not sure why they listed such a high speed. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:24:03 +0800 Details would be welcome! What are the peculiarities of machining acrylic? Marc On 9/9/2014 7:16 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cut 23 acrylic viewports today at the local collage machining class > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 00:35:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 11:35:41 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> References: <1410092555.58525.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Update, Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the outside & will be able to transfer heat through the can. The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, however either will require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm. This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might not be right ( any recommendations)? Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the controller & planetary gear that are needed. http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as robust. These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small streamlined powerful unit. I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommend oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust bearings. If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear it. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank, > the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. > ( I am designing an art work here.) > I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but > I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. > There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. > I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. > I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but > couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. > Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. > How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the back > of the motor? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Allan >> Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? >> Hank >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM >> >> Hi people, >> I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >> The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) >> I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't >> know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. >> Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 00:56:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 21:56:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1410238571.12514.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I am wondering why your so interested in brushless motors. What am I missing, also there has been discussions about heat, what heat? A motor in water, what could be better :-) After a 3km run in gamma, my motor is maybe Luke warm at best. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 9/9/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 12:35 AM Update,Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster.I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the outside & will be ableto transfer heat through the can.The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, however either will?require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm.?This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might not be right ( any recommendations)?Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps.Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the controller & planetary gear that are needed.http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as robust.These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small streamlinedpowerful unit.I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommendoiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust bearings.If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear it.Regards Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff.?( I am designing an art work here.)I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price.There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about.I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, butcouldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit.Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? ?Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof the motor?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) ? I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 02:48:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 13:48:45 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410238571.12514.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410238571.12514.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <943144C1-50EE-47EF-99B5-71EA16DA99D4@yahoo.com> Hank, all the big boys are using them. They are more efficient, & power to size ratio is high. That one I posted a link to is 1&1/2" diameter x 3" long & 1200W, & $30-. There would be a lot less motor to get in the way of the kort nozzle intake. As to motor cooling. From what I have read it is a big issue & overheating causes most motor failures. Motors like Minnkota & probably your motor are purpose built with thicker windings designed to handle the extra heat building up inside an enclosed unit. If I am home building & picking a brushed motor off the shelf I might be hard pressed to find one suitable & probably wouldn't recognize it anyway. I could always oil compensate as a means of cooling. However the in- runner brushless have (as said previously) the coils on the outside, so heat generated is conducted straight through the can to the water rather than through air first as in an out-runner brushless or brushed DC motor. Motors are rated on efficiency, & if you have an 80 % efficiency on a 1000W motor you have a 200W heater inside your thruster can. I am pretty sure the professionally made brushless thrusters would be made by sourcing existing motors, motor controllers, planetary gear boxes & shaft seals, & making a can to fit them in. It's just a matter of tracking these items down. ( which is a pain) Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/09/2014, at 11:56 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I am wondering why your so interested in brushless motors. What am I missing, also there has been discussions about heat, what heat? A motor in water, what could be better :-) After a 3km run in gamma, my motor is maybe Luke warm at best. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 9/9/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 12:35 AM > > Update,Am still Googling away > in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster.I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have > the coils on the outside & will be ableto transfer heat through the can.The problem with in-runners is they have higher > revs than out-runners, however either will require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at > reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm. This is based on other brushless thrusters I have > looked at but might not be right ( any > recommendations)?Another problem is that > most seem to draw huge amps.Here is a > 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the > controller & planetary gear that are > needed.http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at > places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found > on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as > robust.These motors are tiny, but > hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small > streamlinedpowerful unit.I haven't had much luck with a matching > gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommendoiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) > while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit > to match my motor, preferably with thrust > bearings.If anyones got any advice or > experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear > it.Regards Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > On > 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi Hank,the kort > nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit > Naff. ( I am designing an art work > here.)I could get a price for the unit without > kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could > build something for 1/2 that price.There are some > reasonably priced brushless motors about.I > don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing > inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a > thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, > butcouldn't find one with a thin enough > section to fit.Also the motors are a bit > expensive to just buy & hope you can fit > one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? > Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof > the motor?Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Allan > Dont worry about > thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one > for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I > would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a > year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not > happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? > Hank > > > > > > > > > From: > > Alan via Personal_Submersibles > ; > > > > To: > > Personal Submersibles General > Discussion ; > > > > > Subject: > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless > Thrusters > > > Sent: > > Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > > > > > Hi people, > I've > spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters > & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any > ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks > back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp > that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh > water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on > the outside, seem a good option as they cool through > convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque > & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot > have built in) > I was looking at the > option of making my own thruster, however the motor would > require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than > maybe a high powered battery operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from > my > iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 06:36:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 18:36:27 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports In-Reply-To: <20140908202505.43C4323E@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20140908202505.43C4323E@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <540ED82B.2020300@archivale.com> Thank you! Marc On 9/9/2014 11:25 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Basically I cut a large sheet of Acrylic (4'x 3'x 1 1/2") into squares on a table saw, then the squares I took over to the band saw and cut them into 6" dia circles. I will still need to clean them up in the lathe to get them perfectly round then anneal them.. Care needs to be taken with the cutting not to overheat the material, too fast or too slow can be a problem. The book recommended a very high cutting speed for the band saw -4000 feet per min, the saw I was using was only 650 fpm - it seemed fine, no heat. Not sure why they listed such a high speed. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:24:03 +0800 > > Details would be welcome! What are the peculiarities of machining acrylic? > > Marc > > On 9/9/2014 7:16 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cut 23 acrylic viewports today at the local collage machining class >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 08:02:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 05:02:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <943144C1-50EE-47EF-99B5-71EA16DA99D4@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1410264170.36988.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Got it, I do remember that the thrusters on DW's are pretty small for the output. I am surprised that they are more efficient though. I would guess the efficiency comes from voltage and lack of line loss. I am so out of date. I like a big motor and don't work it hard and run huge power leads to it. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 9/9/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 2:48 AM Hank, all the big boys are using them. They are more efficient, & power to size ratio is high. That one I posted a link to is 1&1/2" diameter x 3" long & 1200W, & $30-. There would be a lot less motor to get in the way of the kort nozzle intake. As to motor cooling. From what I have read it is a big issue & overheating causes most motor failures. Motors like Minnkota & probably your motor are purpose built with thicker windings designed to handle the extra heat building up inside an enclosed unit. If I am home building & picking a brushed motor off the shelf I might be hard pressed to find one suitable & probably wouldn't recognize it anyway. I could always oil compensate as a means of cooling. However the in- runner brushless have (as said previously) the coils on the outside, so heat generated is conducted straight through the can to the water rather than through air first as in an out-runner brushless or brushed DC motor. Motors are rated on efficiency, & if you have an 80 % efficiency on a 1000W motor you have a 200W heater inside your thruster can. ???I am pretty sure the professionally made brushless thrusters would be made by sourcing existing motors, motor controllers, planetary gear boxes & shaft seals, & making a can to fit them in. It's just a matter of tracking these items down. ( which is a pain) Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/09/2014, at 11:56 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I am wondering why your so interested in brushless motors.? What am I missing, also there has been discussions about heat, what heat?? A motor in water, what could be better :-)? After a 3km run in gamma, my motor is maybe Luke warm at best.? > Hank? -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 9/9/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 12:35 AM > > Update,Am still Googling away > in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster.I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have > the coils on the outside & will be ableto transfer heat through the can.The problem with in-runners is they have higher > revs than out-runners, however either will require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at > reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm. This is based on other brushless thrusters I have > looked at but might not be right ( any > recommendations)?Another problem is that > most seem to draw huge amps.Here is a > 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the > controller & planetary gear that are > needed.http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at > places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found > on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as > robust.These motors are tiny, but > hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small > streamlinedpowerful unit.I haven't had much luck with a matching > gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommendoiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) > while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit > to match my motor, preferably with thrust > bearings.If anyones got any advice or > experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear > it.Regards Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > On > 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi Hank,the kort > nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit > Naff. ( I am designing an art work > here.)I could get a price for the unit without > kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could > build something for 1/2 that price.There are some > reasonably priced brushless motors about.I > don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing > inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a > thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, > butcouldn't find one with a thin enough > section to fit.Also the motors are a bit > expensive to just buy & hope you can fit > one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? >? Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof > the motor?Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Allan > Dont worry about > thrust bearings to much.? They are aesy to get, I bought one > for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars.? Personally I > would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a > year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster.???Are you not > happy with the? Indonesia thrusters?? Or to pricey? > Hank? ? ? ? ??? > > > > > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Alan via Personal_Submersibles > ; > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???To: > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Personal Submersibles General > Discussion ; > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???[PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless > Thrusters? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent: > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM? ? > > > > > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Hi people, > I've > spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters > & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any > ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks > back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp > that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh > water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on > the outside, seem a good option as they cool through > convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque > & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot > have built in) >? ? I was looking at the > option of making my own thruster, however the motor would > require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than > maybe a high powered battery operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from > my >? iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 08:34:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 08:34:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410264170.36988.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410264170.36988.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D19A4184FD88AD-D30-37B29@webmail-vd009.sysops.aol.com> Hank, Those JSL thrusters draw something like 30 amps or a little better at 28 volts, so Ed Link was much of the same mind about these things. He did not like high voltage in seawater. Period. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Sep 9, 2014 8:03 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Alan, Got it, I do remember that the thrusters on DW's are pretty small for the output. I am surprised that they are more efficient though. I would guess the efficiency comes from voltage and lack of line loss. I am so out of date. I like a big motor and don't work it hard and run huge power leads to it. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 9/9/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 2:48 AM Hank, all the big boys are using them. They are more efficient, & power to size ratio is high. That one I posted a link to is 1&1/2" diameter x 3" long & 1200W, & $30-. There would be a lot less motor to get in the way of the kort nozzle intake. As to motor cooling. From what I have read it is a big issue & overheating causes most motor failures. Motors like Minnkota & probably your motor are purpose built with thicker windings designed to handle the extra heat building up inside an enclosed unit. If I am home building & picking a brushed motor off the shelf I might be hard pressed to find one suitable & probably wouldn't recognize it anyway. I could always oil compensate as a means of cooling. However the in- runner brushless have (as said previously) the coils on the outside, so heat generated is conducted straight through the can to the water rather than through air first as in an out-runner brushless or brushed DC motor. Motors are rated on efficiency, & if you have an 80 % efficiency on a 1000W motor you have a 200W heater inside your thruster can. I am pretty sure the professionally made brushless thrusters would be made by sourcing existing motors, motor controllers, planetary gear boxes & shaft seals, & making a can to fit them in. It's just a matter of tracking these items down. ( which is a pain) Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/09/2014, at 11:56 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I am wondering why your so interested in brushless motors. What am I missing, also there has been discussions about heat, what heat? A motor in water, what could be better :-) After a 3km run in gamma, my motor is maybe Luke warm at best. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 9/9/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 12:35 AM > > Update,Am still Googling away > in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster.I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have > the coils on the outside & will be ableto transfer heat through the can.The problem with in-runners is they have higher > revs than out-runners, however either will require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at > reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm. This is based on other brushless thrusters I have > looked at but might not be right ( any > recommendations)?Another problem is that > most seem to draw huge amps.Here is a > 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the > controller & planetary gear that are > needed.http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at > places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found > on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as > robust.These motors are tiny, but > hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small > streamlinedpowerful unit.I haven't had much luck with a matching > gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommendoiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) > while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit > to match my motor, preferably with thrust > bearings.If anyones got any advice or > experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear > it.Regards Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > On > 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi Hank,the kort > nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit > Naff. ( I am designing an art work > here.)I could get a price for the unit without > kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could > build something for 1/2 that price.There are some > reasonably priced brushless motors about.I > don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing > inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a > thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, > butcouldn't find one with a thin enough > section to fit.Also the motors are a bit > expensive to just buy & hope you can fit > one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? > Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof > the motor?Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Allan > Dont worry about > thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one > for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I > would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a > year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not > happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? > Hank > > > > > > > > > From: > > Alan via Personal_Submersibles > ; > > > > To: > > Personal Submersibles General > Discussion ; > > > > > Subject: > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless > Thrusters > > > Sent: > > Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > > > > > Hi people, > I've > spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters > & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any > ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks > back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp > that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh > water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on > the outside, seem a good option as they cool through > convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque > & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot > have built in) > I was looking at the > option of making my own thruster, however the motor would > require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than > maybe a high powered battery operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from > my > iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 09:22:13 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:22:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Miniature Inertial Sensors Message-ID: <2499b.c642870.41405904@aol.com> Hey guys, Scroll down to see this announcement, then go to http://www.sbg-systems.com/. You'll see "Read more" on the right hand side about 3 inches down. After you've looked at that page, click on "Subsea Sensors" at the top. Jim ____________________________________ From: helene.l at sbg-systems.com To: jimtoddpsub at aol.com Sent: 9/9/2014 5:40:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time Subj: New Miniature Inertial Sensors: Much More Accurate, Robust, and Versatile If you have troubles to display this message, please _click here_ (http://www.sbg-systems.com/index.php?option=com_acymailing&ctrl=archive&task=view&ma ilid=102&key=90a08365f8418fe6158bcdd1202374ac&subid=5667-e45d4a8c16f388ead49 b784a6833e4b6&tmpl=component&Itemid=78) .. PRODUCT RELEASE Dear James Todd, We are proud to present our brand new product line of miniature inertial sensors: the Ellipse Series. (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/ellipse-series-video) MORE ACCURATE, MORE ROBUST, MORE FEATURES SBG Systems releases the Ellipse Series, a brand new product range of miniature inertial systems replacing the IG-500 Series. For the same budget, customers benefits from higher accuracy, advanced filtering and features inspired from high end inertial navigation systems. ACCURACY: * 0.2? ROLL, PITCH & HEADING * 10 CM HEAVE * 2 CM RTK GNSS POSITION VERY LOW NOISE GYROSCOPES, UNIQUE MAGNETIC CALIBRATION Ellipse integrates very low noise MEMS gyroscopes with an exceptional bias instability of 8?/hr. High end MEMS sensors combined with advanced filtering ensure consistent accuracy while the new onboard magnetic calibration guarantee optimal heading accuracy. (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/ss-land-robotics) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/ellipse-series-video) INTERNAL GNSS RECEIVER, EXTENDED FILTERS AND AIDING Ellipse integrates a GPS + GLONASS / BEIDOU receiver. It receives DGPS corrections and can be connected to an odometer for an even more robust trajectory. Ellipse embeds high-end capabilities with its highly tuned Extended Kalman Filter and anti-jamming technology. (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/success-story-machine-control) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/ellipse-series-video) ADVANCED HEAVE FEATURE, MARINE PROTOCOLS Ellipse sensor is the only miniature inertial systems to provide Heave which automatically adjusts to the wave frequency. With its IP 68 housing and its NMEA and TSS1 protocols, Ellipse is perfect for Marine applications. (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/ellipse-series-video) _MORE _ (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/ellipse-series-video) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/news/ellipse-series-video) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/events/oceans-2014) OCEAN MTS 14-19 SEPTEMBER, ST-JOHN'S, CA. Visit us on booth #102 during OCEANS'14, a major international forum in the Marine Industry. _MORE_ (http://www.sbg-systems.com/events/oceans-2014) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/events/oceans-2014) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/events/teledyne-underwater-technology-seminars) TELEDYNE UTS HAMBURG, BOSTON, SINGAPOUR. Meet us during the Underwater Technology Seminars organized by Teledyne. _MORE_ (http://www.sbg-systems.com/events/teledyne-underwater-technology-seminars) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/events/teledyne-underwater-technology-seminars) (http://www.sbg-systems.com/events/intergeo-2014) INTERGEO, 10-13 OCTOBER, BERLIN, DE. 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URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 09:30:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:30:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: References: <1410092555.58525.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same issue with this if you need to gear it down. Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Update, > Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. > I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the outside > & will be able > to transfer heat through the can. > The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, > however either will > require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to > below 3000 rpm. > This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might not > be right ( any recommendations)? > Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. > Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the > controller & planetary gear that are needed. > > http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 > Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, > and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft motors > aren't as robust. > These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential to > make a small streamlined > powerful unit. > I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary > gearboxes recommend > oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am > looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust > bearings. > If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to > hear it. > Regards Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Hank, > the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. > ( I am designing an art work here.) > I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but > I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. > There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. > I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can > of the motor. > I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, > but > couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. > Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. > How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft > extend out the back > of the motor? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Allan > Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought > one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use > a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a > small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to > pricey? > Hank > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; > > * To: * Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>; > * Subject: * [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > * Sent: * Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > Hi people, > I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if > anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian > thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing > Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water > only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good > option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher > revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot > have built in) > I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor > would require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery > operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 09:58:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 15:58:42 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine for sale in sweden In-Reply-To: <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> References: <1410092555.58525.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7080CB1B-B4B5-4438-BD25-697F403D4C3B@upplevelsepresent.se> http://www.ps.nu/objekt/138416/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 10:27:54 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 10:27:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine for sale in sweden Message-ID: <2805.4d3cd9be.41406869@aol.com> Translation: Yeah right, you read that right, here you have the opportunity to realize your dream. Submarine "Isabell" -07. Max load 500 kg. VW 1.6 liter turbo diesel, battery power submerged. Weight 8.5 tonnes. Length 6.1 meters Diameter 1.5 meters Maximum number of passengers 4 persons. Speed ??5-6 knots. Draught (depth?) Max 30 meters. The purchase includes instructions on how to run the sub. There are no rules regarding this vehicle to operat but always good to stay within Swedish waters. "The submarine was christened by Maud Olofsson when it first launched" Questions: Krister Str?mb?ck (0910-22 00 32 / _krister.stromback at ps.nu_ (mailto:krister.stromback at ps.nu) ) In a message dated 9/9/2014 8:59:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: http://www.ps.nu/objekt/138416/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 10:36:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 15:36:56 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine for sale in sweden In-Reply-To: <2805.4d3cd9be.41406869@aol.com> References: <2805.4d3cd9be.41406869@aol.com> Message-ID: there was a youtube vid on the launch of this I think. I tried to find it but couldn't. But, came across this instead which is interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdQfKaQUGc regards James On 9 September 2014 15:27, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Translation: > > Yeah right, you read that right, here you have the opportunity to realize > your dream. > Submarine "Isabell" -07. > Max load 500 kg. > VW 1.6 liter turbo diesel, battery power submerged. > Weight 8.5 tonnes. > Length 6.1 meters > Diameter 1.5 meters > Maximum number of passengers 4 persons. > Speed ??5-6 knots. > Draught (depth?) Max 30 meters. > The purchase includes instructions on how to run the sub. There are no > rules regarding this vehicle to operat but always good to stay within > Swedish waters. > > "The submarine was christened by Maud Olofsson when it first launched" > Questions: Krister Str?mb?ck (0910-22 00 32 / krister.stromback at ps.nu) > > > In a message dated 9/9/2014 8:59:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > http://www.ps.nu/objekt/138416/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 11:24:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: References: <1410092555.58525.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <88B474C1-B656-4483-9BF0-CAE45562F15F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8009D6CC-750F-4E39-B8A8-52E2C880334F@yahoo.com> Hi Alec, not sure what motivated me down this path, but eventually it will add more to the psub knowledge pool. The brushless motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & expensive submersibles, so I assume the pros out way the cons. Just a matter of learning how to put together a good package. The Haswing Protruar brushless Chinese trolling motor that Emile uses was a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few years ago & they offered me an ex factory sample thruster for I think a couple of hundred dollars. The motors I'm looking at are used on model trucks for racing on short courses; so should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem is that a lot of motor controllers for them don't have reverse. The motors are so small, you could probably use a standard peice of aluminium pipe to house them, & machine the propellor shaft & bearing housing end out of a solid tube of aluminium. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same issue with this if you need to gear it down. > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Update, >> Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. >> I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the outside & will be able >> to transfer heat through the can. >> The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, however either will >> require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm. >> This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might not be right ( any recommendations)? >> Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. >> Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the controller & planetary gear that are needed. >> http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 >> Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as robust. >> These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small streamlined >> powerful unit. >> I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommend >> oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust bearings. >> If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear it. >> Regards Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Hank, >>> the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. >>> ( I am designing an art work here.) >>> I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but >>> I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. >>> There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. >>> I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. >>> I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but >>> couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. >>> Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. >>> How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the back >>> of the motor? >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Allan >>>> Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >>>> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM >>>> >>>> Hi people, >>>> I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >>>> The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) >>>> I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't >>>> know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. >>>> Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 11:48:30 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 08:48:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Message-ID: <20140909084830.43C6BDC7@m0048136.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 14:00:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 20:00:55 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine for sale in sweden In-Reply-To: References: <2805.4d3cd9be.41406869@aol.com> Message-ID: Here is a few videos of the sub: http://youtu.be/2GElogeEHK4 http://youtu.be/cyjEk9SCoak http://youtu.be/WizfFg2Kjnc Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten AB Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 9 sep 2014 kl. 16:39 skrev "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" >: there was a youtube vid on the launch of this I think. I tried to find it but couldn't. But, came across this instead which is interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdQfKaQUGc regards James On 9 September 2014 15:27, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Translation: Yeah right, you read that right, here you have the opportunity to realize your dream. Submarine "Isabell" -07. Max load 500 kg. VW 1.6 liter turbo diesel, battery power submerged. Weight 8.5 tonnes. Length 6.1 meters Diameter 1.5 meters Maximum number of passengers 4 persons. Speed ??5-6 knots. Draught (depth?) Max 30 meters. The purchase includes instructions on how to run the sub. There are no rules regarding this vehicle to operat but always good to stay within Swedish waters. "The submarine was christened by Maud Olofsson when it first launched" Questions: Krister Str?mb?ck (0910-22 00 32 / krister.stromback at ps.nu) In a message dated 9/9/2014 8:59:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: http://www.ps.nu/objekt/138416/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 9 14:34:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Cotton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 13:34:32 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine for sale in sweden In-Reply-To: References: <2805.4d3cd9be.41406869@aol.com> Message-ID: Estimated value in dollars $280,000 Current bid $49,000 VAT (Tax) 25% of final price! Very nice boat! On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Here is a few videos of the sub: > > http://youtu.be/2GElogeEHK4 > > http://youtu.be/cyjEk9SCoak > > http://youtu.be/WizfFg2Kjnc > > Lasse Schmidt > Upplevelseakuten AB > Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 > 11130 Stockholm > Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 > Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 > > 9 sep 2014 kl. 16:39 skrev "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > there was a youtube vid on the launch of this I think. I tried to find it > but couldn't. > > But, came across this instead which is interesting. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdQfKaQUGc > > regards > James > > On 9 September 2014 15:27, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Translation: >> >> Yeah right, you read that right, here you have the opportunity to realize >> your dream. >> Submarine "Isabell" -07. >> Max load 500 kg. >> VW 1.6 liter turbo diesel, battery power submerged. >> Weight 8.5 tonnes. >> Length 6.1 meters >> Diameter 1.5 meters >> Maximum number of passengers 4 persons. >> Speed ??5-6 knots. >> Draught (depth?) Max 30 meters. >> The purchase includes instructions on how to run the sub. There are no >> rules regarding this vehicle to operat but always good to stay within >> Swedish waters. >> >> "The submarine was christened by Maud Olofsson when it first launched" >> Questions: Krister Str?mb?ck (0910-22 00 32 / krister.stromback at ps.nu) >> >> >> In a message dated 9/9/2014 8:59:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: >> >> http://www.ps.nu/objekt/138416/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 06:04:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 17:04:59 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <20140909084830.43C6BDC7@m0048136.ppops.net> References: <20140909084830.43C6BDC7@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <24F383AB-5307-4905-AC74-50399B43E2B4@yahoo.com> Hi Brian, I don't know a lot about them, but I believe you can't run them off DC & they are generally heavyweight industrial units. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/09/2014, at 10:48 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Why not just use an AC induction motor then? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 +0700 > > Hi Alec, > not sure what motivated me down this path, but eventually it will add more to the psub > knowledge pool. > The brushless motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & expensive submersibles, > so I assume the pros out way the cons. Just a matter of learning how to put together > a good package. The Haswing Protruar brushless Chinese trolling motor that Emile uses > was a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few years ago & they offered me an ex factory > sample thruster for I think a couple of hundred dollars. > The motors I'm looking at are used on model trucks for racing on short courses; so should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem is that a lot of motor controllers for them > don't have reverse. > The motors are so small, you could probably use a standard peice of aluminium pipe > to house them, & machine the propellor shaft & bearing housing end out of a solid tube of > aluminium. > Alan > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same issue with this if you need to gear it down. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Update, > Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. > I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the outside & will be able > to transfer heat through the can. > The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, however either will > require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm. > This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might not be right ( any recommendations)? > Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. > Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the controller & planetary gear that are needed. > http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 > Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as robust. > These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small streamlined > powerful unit. > I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommend > oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust bearings. > If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear it. > Regards Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank, > the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. > ( I am designing an art work here.) > I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but > I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. > There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. > I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. > I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but > couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. > Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. > How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft extend out the back > of the motor? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Allan > Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? > Hank > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > Hi people, > I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) > I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 07:53:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:53:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <24F383AB-5307-4905-AC74-50399B43E2B4@yahoo.com> References: <20140909084830.43C6BDC7@m0048136.ppops.net> <24F383AB-5307-4905-AC74-50399B43E2B4@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <82cc2d78-a062-44f5-b765-a1b39cdc6493@email.android.com> AC induction motors can run off a VFD with the DC bus directly supplied - in this case, you only need the inverter stage and not the rectifier stage of the VFD, but there are caveats: the DC bus connections must be available (rare in small VFDs), and the bus voltage must be high (sqrt(2)?nominal motor voltage). This would require either a battery bank offering hundreds of volts DC, or some sort of DC-DC converter to step up the DC voltage into the VFD bus. Sean On September 10, 2014 4:04:59 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi Brian, >I don't know a lot about them, but I believe you can't run them off DC >& they are generally heavyweight industrial units. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 9/09/2014, at 10:48 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Why not just use an AC induction motor then? >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 +0700 >> >> Hi Alec, >> not sure what motivated me down this path, but eventually it will add >more to the psub >> knowledge pool. >> The brushless motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & >expensive submersibles, >> so I assume the pros out way the cons. Just a matter of learning how >to put together >> a good package. The Haswing Protruar brushless Chinese trolling motor >that Emile uses >> was a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few years ago & they >offered me an ex factory >> sample thruster for I think a couple of hundred dollars. >> The motors I'm looking at are used on model trucks for racing on >short courses; so should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem >is that a lot of motor controllers for them >> don't have reverse. >> The motors are so small, you could probably use a standard peice of >aluminium pipe >> to house them, & machine the propellor shaft & bearing housing end >out of a solid tube of >> aluminium. >> Alan >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that >reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a >thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless >trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind >up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface >runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same >issue with this if you need to gear it down. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Update, >> Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. >> I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the >outside & will be able >> to transfer heat through the can. >> The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than >out-runners, however either will >> require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down >to below 3000 rpm. >> This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might >not be right ( any recommendations)? >> Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. >> Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the >controller & planetary gear that are needed. >> >http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 >> Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby >King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The >aircraft motors aren't as robust. >> These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential >to make a small streamlined >> powerful unit. >> I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the >planetary gearboxes recommend >> oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I >am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with >thrust bearings. >> If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased >to hear it. >> Regards Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Hi Hank, >> the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. >> ( I am designing an art work here.) >> I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but >> I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. >> There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. >> I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the >can of the motor. >> I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed >thrusters, but >> couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. >> Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit >one. >> How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propellor shaft >extend out the back >> of the motor? >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Allan >> Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I >bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I >would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 >bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia >thrusters? Or to pricey? >> Hank >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >; >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >; >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM >> >> Hi people, >> I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & >wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the >Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is >also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that >it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >> The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good >option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need >higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( >which a lot have built in) >> I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the >motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't >> know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered >battery operated drill. >> Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 08:27:58 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:27:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <24F383AB-5307-4905-AC74-50399B43E2B4@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1410352078.97479.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Check out ebay for gearhead dc motors. I had a look a while ago for a motor to run my external hyd pump. There area bunch of cheap China inline motors. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9/10/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, September 10, 2014, 6:04 AM Hi Brian,I don't know a lot about them, but I believe you can't run them off DC& they are generally heavyweight industrial units.Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/09/2014, at 10:48 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Why not just use an AC induction motor then?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 +0700 Hi Alec,not sure what motivated me down this path, but eventually it will add more to the psubknowledge pool.The brushless motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & expensive submersibles,so I assume the pros out way the cons. Just a matter of learning how to put togethera good package. The Haswing Protruar brushless Chinese trolling motor that Emile useswas a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few years ago & they offered me an ex factory?sample thruster for I think a couple of hundred dollars.?The motors I'm looking at are used on model trucks for racing on short courses; so should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem is that a lot of motor controllers for themdon't have reverse.The motors are so small, you could probably use a standard peice of aluminium pipeto house them, & machine the propellor shaft & bearing housing end out of a solid tube ofaluminium. ?Alan Sent from my iPad On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same issue with this if you need to gear it down. Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Update,Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster.I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the outside & will be ableto transfer heat through the can.The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, however either will?require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm.?This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might not be right ( any recommendations)?Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps.Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the controller & planetary gear that are needed.http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as robust.These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small streamlinedpowerful unit.I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommendoiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust bearings.If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear it.Regards Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff.?( I am designing an art work here.)I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price.There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about.I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, butcouldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit.Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? ?Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof the motor?Alan Sent from my iPad On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Allan Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? Hank From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM Hi people, I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) ? I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 09:32:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:32:21 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <1410352078.97479.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410352078.97479.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank, I have been looking under "planetary gear box"; "gearhead" turns up a lot more results. Finding a motor of sufficient power with a gearhead already on it would be a real plus, as the gearboxes themselves are only compatible with certain motors. I have put out an SOS to a Chinese National working in the electronics field. There are a lot of Chinese products that show up on searches, but the sites & information is a bit bewildering to me. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/09/2014, at 7:27 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check out ebay for gearhead dc motors. I had a look a while ago for a motor to run my external hyd pump. There area bunch of cheap China inline motors. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 9/10/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Wednesday, September 10, 2014, 6:04 AM > > Hi > Brian,I don't know a lot about them, but I > believe you can't run them off DC& they > are generally heavyweight industrial > units.Alan > > Sent > from my iPad > On > 9/09/2014, at 10:48 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Why not just use an AC induction > motor then? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless > Thrusters > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 > +0700 > > Hi > Alec,not sure what motivated me down this path, > but eventually it will add more to the > psubknowledge pool.The brushless > motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & > expensive submersibles,so I assume the pros out > way the cons. Just a matter of learning how to put > togethera good package. The Haswing Protruar > brushless Chinese trolling motor that Emile > useswas a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few > years ago & they offered me an ex > factory sample thruster for I think a couple of > hundred dollars. The motors I'm looking at > are used on model trucks for racing on short courses; so > should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem is that > a lot of motor controllers for themdon't have > reverse.The motors are so small, you could > probably use a standard peice of aluminium pipeto > house them, & machine the propellor shaft & bearing > housing end out of a solid tube ofaluminium. > Alan > Sent from my > iPad > On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, > Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > That is > remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that > reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to > adapt as a thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the > high-RPM Chinese brushless trolling motor he was using > required something like ten seconds to wind up when you gave > it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface runs but > not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the > same issue with this if you need to gear it down. > Best, > Alec > On > Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > Update,Am > still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless > thruster.I am set on using an in-runner motor as > they have the coils on the outside & will be > ableto transfer heat through the > can.The problem with in-runners is they have > higher revs than out-runners, however either > will require a planetary gearbox. I am looking > at reducing the revs down to below 3000 > rpm. This is based on other brushless thrusters > I have looked at but might not be right ( any > recommendations)?Another problem is that most > seem to draw huge amps.Here is a 1200W motor for > $30-. Of course there is the price of the controller & > planetary gear that are needed.http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364Most > of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby > King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. > The aircraft motors aren't as > robust.These motors are tiny, but hugely > powerful, so there is the potential to make a small > streamlinedpowerful unit.I haven't > had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary > gearboxes recommendoiling (no good to me unless I > oil compensate) while others don't. I am looking for a > cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust > bearings.If anyones got any advice or experience > in this realm I'd be pleased to hear > it.Regards Alan > > Sent from my > iPad > On 7/09/2014, at > 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi > Hank,the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster > looks a bit Naff. ( I am designing an art work > here.)I could get a price for the unit without > kort nozzle, butI'm wondering if I could > build something for 1/2 that price.There are some > reasonably priced brushless motors about.I > don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing > inside the can of the motor.I tried to put a > thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, > butcouldn't find one with a thin enough > section to fit.Also the motors are a bit > expensive to just buy & hope you can fit > one.How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? > Did the propellor shaft extend out the backof > the motor?Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Allan > Dont > worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, > I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. > Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and > replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small > thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? > Or to pricey? > Hank > > > > > > > > > From: > > Alan via Personal_Submersibles > ; > > > > To: > > Personal Submersibles General > Discussion ; > > > > > Subject: > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless > Thrusters > > > Sent: > > Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > > > > > Hi people, > I've > spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters > & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any > ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks > back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp > that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh > water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on > the outside, seem a good option as they cool through > convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque > & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot > have built in) > I was looking at the > option of making my own thruster, however the motor would > require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than > maybe a high powered battery operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from > my > iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 10:18:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:18:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Message-ID: <20140910071825.43C4E354@m0005310.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 11:07:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:07:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Message-ID: <20140910080729.43C5A7D5@m0005298.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 12:03:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:03:01 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <20140910080729.43C5A7D5@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20140910080729.43C5A7D5@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <7f60fc45-100a-45bc-90f9-d8769d152b38@email.android.com> Only that higher voltages present more risk, particularly in DC systems, so you need to take particular care to keep everything protected from stray hands, tools and debris. A high voltage DC short will wake you up in a hurry. Isolation is a must (no hull connection to battery negative). Also, when you add cells in series to raise the DC voltage of your battery bank, you don't also increase capacity, only voltage. Only cells (or banks) in parallel will add Amp hours, so you're looking at lots of batteries for a high voltage system. IIRC, ABS will consider systems to 600 V. You need 690 VDC if you want to run true industrial motors (440V) via VFD, but if you can source lower voltage AC motors, there's no reason you couldn't do this, if it was cost effective for you. A 48V AC motor would need 68 VDC to the VFD bus. Sean On September 10, 2014 9:07:29 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean, Is there any reason why not to run the higher voltage if you >want to run one of these AC motors for a sub ? I'm going to have to >make some decisions on my motors soon. The higher voltages are more >efficient . > > > >Brian > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:53:12 -0600 > >AC induction motors can run off a VFD with the DC bus directly supplied >- in this case, you only need the inverter stage and not the rectifier >stage of the VFD, but there are caveats: the DC bus connections must be >available (rare in small VFDs), and the bus voltage must be high >(sqrt(2)?nominal motor voltage). This would require either a battery >bank offering hundreds of volts DC, or some sort of DC-DC converter to >step up the DC voltage into the VFD bus. > >Sean > > >On September 10, 2014 4:04:59 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Hi Brian, > >I don't know a lot about them, but I believe you can't run them off DC > >& they are generally heavyweight industrial units. > >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > > >On 9/09/2014, at 10:48 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Why not just use an AC induction motor then? > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 +0700 > >Hi Alec, > >not sure what motivated me down this path, but eventually it will add >more to the psub > >knowledge pool. > >The brushless motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & expensive >submersibles, > >so I assume the pros out way the cons. Just a matter of learning how to >put together > >a good package. The Haswing Protruar brushless Chinese trolling motor >that Emile uses > >was a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few years ago & they offered >me an ex factory > >sample thruster for I think a couple of hundred dollars. > >The motors I'm looking at are used on model trucks for racing on short >courses; so should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem is that >a lot of motor controllers for them > >don't have reverse. > >The motors are so small, you could probably use a standard peice of >aluminium pipe > >to house them, &! amp; machine the propellor shaft & bearing housing >end out of a solid tube of > >aluminium. > >Alan >Sent from my iPad > > >On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that reason >alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a >thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless >trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind >up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface >runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same >issue with this if you need to gear it down. > > >Best, > > >Alec > > >On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ! > wrote: > >Update, > >Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. > >I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the >outside & will be able > >to transfer heat through the can. > >The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, >however either will > >require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to >below 3000 rpm. > >This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might >not be right ( any recommendations)? > >Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. > >Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the >contr! oller & planetary gear that are needed. > >http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 > >Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, >and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft >motors aren't as robust. > >These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential >to make a small streamlined > >powerful unit. > >I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary >gearboxes recommend > >oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am >looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with >thrust bearings. > >If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to >hear it. > >Regards Alan > > >! > > >Sent from my iPad > > >On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Hi Hank, > >the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. > >( I am designing an art work here.) > >I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but > >I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. > >There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. > >I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the >can of the motor. > >I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed >thrusters, but > >couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. > >Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. > >How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propell! or shaft >extend out the back > >of the motor? > >Alan > > > >Sent from my iPad > > >On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Allan >Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I >bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I >would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 >bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia >thrusters? Or to pricey? >Hank > > >_____________________________________________ >From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >; >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > >Hi people, >I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder >if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the >Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is >also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that >it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good >option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need >higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( >which a lot have built in) >I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the >motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't >know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery >operated drill. >Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_____________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >-- >Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my >brevity._______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 18:49:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 05:49:48 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <20140910080729.43C5A7D5@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20140910080729.43C5A7D5@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <876B5915-240E-4571-A6D2-94E5E5FF6A01@yahoo.com> Thanks Brian & Sean, those motors are a bit big for me. I'm looking round the 1000W range & trying to keep the revs below 3000 rpm. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/09/2014, at 10:07 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, Is there any reason why not to run the higher voltage if you want to run one of these AC motors for a sub ? I'm going to have to make some decisions on my motors soon. The higher voltages are more efficient . > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:53:12 -0600 > > AC induction motors can run off a VFD with the DC bus directly supplied - in this case, you only need the inverter stage and not the rectifier stage of the VFD, but there are caveats: the DC bus connections must be available (rare in small VFDs), and the bus voltage must be high (sqrt(2)?nominal motor voltage). This would require either a battery bank offering hundreds of volts DC, or some sort of DC-DC converter to step up the DC voltage into the VFD bus. > > Sean > > > > On September 10, 2014 4:04:59 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Brian, > I don't know a lot about them, but I believe you can't run them off DC > & they are generally heavyweight industrial units. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/09/2014, at 10:48 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Why not just use an AC induction motor then? > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 +0700 > > Hi Alec, > not sure what motivated me down this path, but eventually it will add more to the psub > knowledge pool. > The brushless motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & expensive submersibles, > so I assume the pros out way the cons. Just a matter of learning how to put together > a good package. The Haswing Protruar brushless Chinese trolling motor that Emile uses > was a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few years ago & they offered me an ex factory > sample thruster for I think a couple of hundred dollars. > The motors I'm looking at are used on model trucks for racing on short courses; so should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem is that a lot of motor controllers for them > don't have reverse. > The motors are so small, you could probably use a standard peice of aluminium pipe > to house them, &! amp; machine the propellor shaft & bearing housing end out of a solid tube of > aluminium. > Alan > Sent from my iPad > > On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same issue with this if you need to gear it down. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ! wrote: > Update, > Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. > I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the outside & will be able > to transfer heat through the can. > The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than out-runners, however either will > require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down to below 3000 rpm. > This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might not be right ( any recommendations)? > Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. > Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the contr! oller & planetary gear that are needed. > http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 > Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The aircraft motors aren't as robust. > These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential to make a small streamlined > powerful unit. > I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the planetary gearboxes recommend > oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with thrust bearings. > If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased to hear it. > Regards Alan > > ! > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank, > the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. > ( I am designing an art work here.) > I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but > I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. > There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. > I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the can of the motor. > I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed thrusters, but > couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. > Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit one. > How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propell! or shaft extend out the back > of the motor? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Allan > Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia thrusters? Or to pricey? > Hank > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles ; > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters > Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM > > Hi people, > I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. > The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( which a lot have built in) > I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't > know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered battery operated drill. > Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -- > Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity._______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 19:11:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 17:11:46 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters In-Reply-To: <876B5915-240E-4571-A6D2-94E5E5FF6A01@yahoo.com> References: <20140910080729.43C5A7D5@m0005298.ppops.net> <876B5915-240E-4571-A6D2-94E5E5FF6A01@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4c5d22ae-3609-4fa0-9309-39d4168e9139@email.android.com> One advantage of AC induction motors is that you can decrease the nominal speed by increasing the number of poles in the motor winding. For example, a 2 pole motor rated for 60 Hz (US & Canada), has a synchronous speed of 3600 rpm. By using a 4 pole winding instead, you decrease the synchronous speed to 1800 rpm, 1200 rpm for a 6 pole winding, and so forth. Note that the synchronous speed is somewhat irrelevant if you are using a VFD, since the motor speed is controlled by varying the inverter frequency; however, efficiency takes a hit if you are operating much below half of the rated synchronous speed, so for the same target rpm you are better off using a motor with a greater number of poles with the VFD operating closer to the synchronous speed, versus dialing the VFD way down on a faster motor. Sean On September 10, 2014 4:49:48 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Thanks Brian & Sean, >those motors are a bit big for me. >I'm looking round the 1000W range & trying to keep the revs >below 3000 rpm. >Alan > >Sent from my iPad > >> On 10/09/2014, at 10:07 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Sean, Is there any reason why not to run the higher voltage if you >want to run one of these AC motors for a sub ? I'm going to have to >make some decisions on my motors soon. The higher voltages are more >efficient . >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:53:12 -0600 >> >> AC induction motors can run off a VFD with the DC bus directly >supplied - in this case, you only need the inverter stage and not the >rectifier stage of the VFD, but there are caveats: the DC bus >connections must be available (rare in small VFDs), and the bus voltage >must be high (sqrt(2)?nominal motor voltage). This would require either >a battery bank offering hundreds of volts DC, or some sort of DC-DC >converter to step up the DC voltage into the VFD bus. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> On September 10, 2014 4:04:59 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Hi Brian, >> I don't know a lot about them, but I believe you can't run them off >DC >> & they are generally heavyweight industrial units. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 9/09/2014, at 10:48 pm, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Why not just use an AC induction motor then? >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:24:04 +0700 >> >> Hi Alec, >> not sure what motivated me down this path, but eventually it will add >more to the psub >> knowledge pool. >> The brushless motors are used successfully on a lot of rovs & >expensive submersibles, >> so I assume the pros out way the cons. Just a matter of learning how >to put together >> a good package. The Haswing Protruar brushless Chinese trolling motor >that Emile uses >> was a very cheap unit. I made enquiries a few years ago & they >offered me an ex factory >> sample thruster for I think a couple of hundred dollars. >> The motors I'm looking at are used on model trucks for racing on >short courses; so should be able to wind them up quickly. One problem >is that a lot of motor controllers for them >> don't have reverse. >> The motors are so small, you could probably use a standard peice of >aluminium pipe >> to house them, &! amp; machine the propellor shaft & bearing housing >end out of a solid tube of >> aluminium. >> Alan >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 9/09/2014, at 8:30 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> That is remarkable power for the size, very interesting for that >reason alone. But it seems to me like quite a challenge to adapt as a >thruster. I recall Emile's comment that the high-RPM Chinese brushless >trolling motor he was using required something like ten seconds to wind >up when you gave it juice. The efficiency makes it great for surface >runs but not useful for submerged maneuvering. You might have the same >issue with this if you need to gear it down. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles ! > wrote: >> Update, >> Am still Googling away in pursuit of a home made brushless thruster. >> I am set on using an in-runner motor as they have the coils on the >outside & will be able >> to transfer heat through the can. >> The problem with in-runners is they have higher revs than >out-runners, however either will >> require a planetary gearbox. I am looking at reducing the revs down >to below 3000 rpm. >> This is based on other brushless thrusters I have looked at but might >not be right ( any recommendations)? >> Another problem is that most seem to draw huge amps. >> Here is a 1200W motor for $30-. Of course there is the price of the >contr! oller & planetary gear that are needed. >> >http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=17720&type=&idparentcat=364 >> Most of the suitable motors seem to be found at places like Hobby >King, and are used on RC trucks, or found on E bike sights. The >aircraft motors aren't as robust. >> These motors are tiny, but hugely powerful, so there is the potential >to make a small streamlined >> powerful unit. >> I haven't had much luck with a matching gearbox. Some of the >planetary gearboxes recommend >> oiling (no good to me unless I oil compensate) while others don't. I >am looking for a cylindrical unit to match my motor, preferably with >thrust bearings. >> If anyones got any advice or experience in this realm I'd be pleased >to hear it. >> Regards Alan >> >> ! >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 7/09/2014, at 8:43 pm, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Hi Hank, >> the kort nozzle on the Indonesian thruster looks a bit Naff. >> ( I am designing an art work here.) >> I could get a price for the unit without kort nozzle, but >> I'm wondering if I could build something for 1/2 that price. >> There are some reasonably priced brushless motors about. >> I don't know that I could just retro fit a thrust bearing inside the >can of the motor. >> I tried to put a thrust bearing for reverse inside my brushed >thrusters, but >> couldn't find one with a thin enough section to fit. >> Also the motors are a bit expensive to just buy & hope you can fit >one. >> How did you fit the thrust bearing on Gamma? Did the propell! or >shaft extend out the back >> of the motor? >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 7/09/2014, at 7:22 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Allan >> Dont worry about thrust bearings to much. They are aesy to get, I >bought one for Gamma , real heavy duty for 80 dollars. Personally I >would just use a good quality bearing and replace it once a year for 8 >bucks, if it is a small thruster. Are you not happy with the Indonesia >thrusters? Or to pricey? >> Hank >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >; >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >; >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters >> Sent: Sun, Sep 7, 2014 11:58:56 AM >> >> Hi people, >> I've spent several hours today looking at brushless thrusters & >wonder if anyone else has looked at them or got any ideas. There is the >Indonesian thruster I posted a few weeks back at US 2,200. There is >also the Haswing Protruar 2hp that Emile has; however they state that >it's for fresh water only, & I think Emile said it was a bit noisy. >> The inrunner motors that have the winding on the outside, seem a good >option as they cool through convection to the can. They also need >higher revs for torque & require a planetary gear box or similar. ( >which a lot have built in) >> I was looking at the option of making my own thruster, however the >motor would require a thrust bearing & I don't >> know of any that would have one other than maybe a high powered >battery operated drill. >> Any thoughts, suggestions thanks. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -- >> Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my >brevity._______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 20:05:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 17:05:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Thrusters Message-ID: <20140910170547.43C718F7@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 10 21:52:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:52:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1410400332.64040.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dan Lance, Can you please contact me at hankpronk at live.ca I need advice. Thank you Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 17:48:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 14:48:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive log Message-ID: <1410558496.80825.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am finally starting a dive log, What constitutes a dive worthy of entering in the log. When I go to a lake, I dive to what ever feet for 15 min then surface and move to a new spot and dive to what ever. Does each dive count as a dive or is it a part of a dive day? Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 17:55:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:55:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive log In-Reply-To: <1410558496.80825.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410558496.80825.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <95737B90-33D7-4B85-8AFB-B88521F48F5F@AOL.com> Hatch closed to hatch open mostly. The Nektons cranked up all those big dive numbers making 3-5 dives per day. Whenever they went back to change pilot or passenger they changed dive numbers. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2014, at 5:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I am finally starting a dive log, > What constitutes a dive worthy of entering in the log. When I go to a lake, I dive to what ever feet for 15 min then surface and move to a new spot and dive to what ever. Does each dive count as a dive or is it a part of a dive day? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 18:13:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:13:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades Message-ID: <1410560039.5673.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 18:21:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:21:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <1410560039.5673.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410560039.5673.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6ABD99E4-1CF1-401F-ACC2-6ECE63E7452A@AOL.com> Sounds good. One trick you can do with your surface buoy line is Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 18:23:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:23:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <1410560039.5673.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410560039.5673.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B204663-9EFB-42F5-8576-D35CF9043810@AOL.com> You can attach a trawl buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help keep the line away from your prop. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 18:28:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:28:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <3B204663-9EFB-42F5-8576-D35CF9043810@AOL.com> Message-ID: <1410560903.15548.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up. That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM You can attach a trawl buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help keep the line away from your prop. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing.? I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time.? I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber.? I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water.? My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 18:40:48 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:40:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <1410560903.15548.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410560903.15548.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't like nylon for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Vance, > Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up. That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM > > You can attach a trawl > buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help > keep the line away from your prop. > Vance > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Gamma has > a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan > inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight > caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the > cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove > the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my > safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail > out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I > tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from > inside. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 18:49:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:49:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a surface boat. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM I don't like nylon for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Vance, > Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it.? When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up.? That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch.? Clever yes? lol. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM > > You can attach a trawl > buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help > keep the line away from your prop. > Vance > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Gamma has > a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan > inside the scrubber housing.? I mounted removable airtight > caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the > cartridge inside the scrubber all the time.? I just remove > the caps and turn on the scrubber.? I also added to my > safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail > out in freezing water.? My diver below buoy and flag that I > tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from > inside. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 20:09:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:09:28 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4bfc767a-3d68-472b-b135-7ff904b845a7@email.android.com> Be aware that when you start doing deeper dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just to drag that line through the water - particularly if holding position against a current. Don't go larger than necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and constant tension on the line. Sean On September 12, 2014 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Vance, >I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight >up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a >tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a >surface boat. >Hank-------------------------------------------- >On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM > > I don't like nylon > for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and > gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is > neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it > unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic > transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). > Vance > > Sent > from my iPhone > > > On Sep > 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > > Vance, > > Great idea, I > am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far > it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged > it.? When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going > down while I was going up.? That is why I attached it to > the sample bag winch.? Clever yes? lol. > > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > To: >"Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 > PM > > > > You can attach > a trawl > > buoy to your surface line 6-10 > feet above the sub to help > > keep the > line away from your prop. > > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank > pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> Gamma has > > a > modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan > > inside the scrubber housing.? I mounted > removable airtight > > caps on the intake > and exhaust ports, now I can leave the > > > cartridge inside the scrubber all the time.? I just > remove > > the caps and turn on the > scrubber.? I also added to my > > safety > gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail > > out in freezing water.? My diver below > buoy and flag that I > > tow behind Gamma > all the time is now detachable from > > > inside. > >> Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 20:23:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 20:23:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <4bfc767a-3d68-472b-b135-7ff904b845a7@email.android.com> References: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4bfc767a-3d68-472b-b135-7ff904b845a7@email.android.com> Message-ID: <8D19D000455679F-222C-4CDC6@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> Agreed. The best I've seen for this kind of thing is Spectra 12 from Novabraid--a hollow braided 12 strand rope with breaking strengths comparable to wire rope. The 1/8" diameter rope, for instance, has a breaking strength of 1800 pounds. Anyone who checked the JSL emergency buoy reel will have seen about a half mile of that stuff on a spool between the pilot's sphere and the diving compartment. It is seriously strong, easy to handle, and resistant to virtually everything, apparently (sun, salt water, heat, and so on). Great stuff. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades Be aware that when you start doing deeper dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just to drag that line through the water - particularly if holding position against a current. Don't go larger than necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and constant tension on the line. Sean On September 12, 2014 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a surface boat. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM I don't like nylon for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up. That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM You can attach a trawl buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help keep the line away from your prop. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 20:24:34 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 20:24:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D19D003A7C821F-222C-4CDF7@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> A leash by any other name..... Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 6:50 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades Vance, I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a surface boat. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM I don't like nylon for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Vance, > Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up. That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM > > You can attach a trawl > buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help > keep the line away from your prop. > Vance > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Gamma has > a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan > inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight > caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the > cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove > the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my > safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail > out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I > tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from > inside. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 20:38:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 07:38:39 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <8D19D000455679F-222C-4CDC6@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> References: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4bfc767a-3d68-472b-b135-7ff904b845a7@email.android.com> <8D19D000455679F-222C-4CDC6@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8199612E-627C-4D3F-B343-C45F43D44834@yahoo.com> Why go for a strong breaking strain if you are just towing a float? Wouldn't you want something that just suffices in case it snags on anything? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/09/2014, at 7:23 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Agreed. The best I've seen for this kind of thing is Spectra 12 from Novabraid--a hollow braided 12 strand rope with breaking strengths comparable to wire rope. The 1/8" diameter rope, for instance, has a breaking strength of 1800 pounds. Anyone who checked the JSL emergency buoy reel will have seen about a half mile of that stuff on a spool between the pilot's sphere and the diving compartment. It is seriously strong, easy to handle, and resistant to virtually everything, apparently (sun, salt water, heat, and so on). Great stuff. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:10 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > Be aware that when you start doing deeper dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just to drag that line through the water - particularly if holding position against a current. Don't go larger than necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and constant tension on the line. > Sean > > >> On September 12, 2014 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Vance, >> >> I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a surface boat. >> >> Hank >> >> >> On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM >> >> >> >> I don't like nylon >> >> for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and >> >> gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is >> >> neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it >> >> unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic >> >> transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). >> >> Vance >> >> >> >> Sent >> >> from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On Sep >> 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Vance, >>> >>> Great idea, I >> am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far >> >> it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged >> >> it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going >> >> down while I was going up. That is why I attached it to >> >> the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. >> >>> Hank >> >> >>> On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via >> Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Subject: >> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades >> >>> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >>> Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 >> PM >> >>> >>> >>> You can attach >> a trawl >> >>> buoy to your surface line 6-10 >> feet above the sub to help >> >>> keep the >> line away from your prop. >> >>> Vance >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> >>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank >> pronk via >> >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gamma has >>> a >> modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan >> >>> inside the scrubber housing. I mounted >> removable airtight >> >>> caps on the intake >> and exhaust ports, now I can leave the >> >> cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just >> >> remove >> >>> the caps and turn on the >> scrubber. I also added to my >> >>> safety >> gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail >> >>> out in freezing water. My diver below >> buoy and flag that I >> >>> tow behind Gamma >> all the time is now detachable from >> >> inside. >> >>>> Hank >> >> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 20:58:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:58:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <8199612E-627C-4D3F-B343-C45F43D44834@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1410569918.25776.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I like the idea of a constant tension spool in the float, this way the float is always directly above the sub, or close at least. A strong line will be needed because I want to be able to slide a rescue cable down the float line. Unless I have two lift bags installed by then. :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/12/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 8:38 PM Why go for a strong breaking strain if you are just towing a float?Wouldn't you want something that just suffices in case it snags onanything?Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/09/2014, at 7:23 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Agreed. The best I've seen for this kind of thing is Spectra 12 from Novabraid--a hollow braided 12 strand rope with breaking strengths comparable to wire rope. The 1/8" diameter rope, for instance, has a breaking strength of 1800 pounds. Anyone who checked the JSL emergency buoy reel will have seen about a half mile of that stuff on a spool between the pilot's sphere and the diving compartment. It is seriously strong, easy to handle, and resistant to virtually everything, apparently (sun, salt water, heat, and so on). Great stuff. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades Be aware that when you start doing deeper dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just to drag that line through the water - particularly if holding position against a current. Don't go larger than necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and constant tension on the line. Sean On September 12, 2014 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a surface boat. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM I don't like nylon for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it.? When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up.? That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch.? Clever yes? lol. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM You can attach a trawl buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help keep the line away from your prop. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing.? I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time.? I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber.? I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water.? My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 21:51:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 08:51:36 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <1410569918.25776.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410569918.25776.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was wondering about a constant tension spool. How do you do that with a large variation of line length? It would be easy spooling out, but you would need some sort of motor & level wind to wind in over the depth that you are intending. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/09/2014, at 7:58 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I like the idea of a constant tension spool in the float, this way the float is always directly above the sub, or close at least. A strong line will be needed because I want to be able to slide a rescue cable down the float line. Unless I have two lift bags installed by then. :-) > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/12/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 8:38 PM > > Why go > for a strong breaking strain if you are just towing a > float?Wouldn't you want something that just > suffices in case it snags > onanything?Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 13/09/2014, at 7:23 am, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Agreed. The > best I've seen for this kind of thing is Spectra 12 from > Novabraid--a hollow braided 12 strand rope with breaking > strengths comparable to wire rope. The 1/8" diameter > rope, for instance, has a breaking strength of 1800 pounds. > Anyone who checked the JSL emergency buoy reel will have > seen about a half mile of that stuff on a spool between the > pilot's sphere and the diving compartment. It is > seriously strong, easy to handle, and resistant to virtually > everything, apparently (sun, salt water, heat, and so on). > Great stuff. > Vance > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:10 pm > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > > > > > > > > > > Be aware that when you start doing deeper > dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just > to drag that line through the water - particularly if > holding position against a current. Don't go larger than > necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and > constant tension on the line. > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > On September 12, 2014 > 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Vance, > > I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going > straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the > surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for > the flag since I don't have a surface boat. > > Hank > > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM > > > > I don't like nylon > > for a surface tether because it soaks water over time > and > > gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is > > neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used > it > > unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic > > transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). > > Vance > > > > Sent > > from my iPhone > > > > On Sep > > 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Vance, > > Great idea, I > > am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is > buoyant and so far > > it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged > > it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was > going > > down while I was going up. That is why I attached it > to > > the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. > > Hank > > > > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley > via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > To: > > "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > > Received: Friday, September 12, > 2014, 6:23 > > PM > > > > You can attach > > a trawl > > buoy to your surface line > 6-10 > > feet above the sub to help > > keep the > > line away from your prop. > > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, > hank > > pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Gamma has > > a > > modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I > moved the fan > > inside the scrubber housing. I > mounted > > removable airtight > > caps on the intake > > and exhaust ports, now I can leave the > > > > cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. > I just > > remove > > the caps and turn on the > > scrubber. I also added to my > > safety > > gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have > to bail > > out in freezing water. My > diver below > > buoy and flag that I > > tow behind Gamma > > all the time is now detachable from > > > > inside. > > > Hank > > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 22:29:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:29:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <8199612E-627C-4D3F-B343-C45F43D44834@yahoo.com> References: <1410562179.85181.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4bfc767a-3d68-472b-b135-7ff904b845a7@email.android.com> <8D19D000455679F-222C-4CDC6@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> <8199612E-627C-4D3F-B343-C45F43D44834@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D19D11BBC40781-222C-4DA52@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> You want it releasable from the sub in that case, but strong enough to use as a down line or sending line or whatever in case of entanglement. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades Why go for a strong breaking strain if you are just towing a float? Wouldn't you want something that just suffices in case it snags on anything? Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/09/2014, at 7:23 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Agreed. The best I've seen for this kind of thing is Spectra 12 from Novabraid--a hollow braided 12 strand rope with breaking strengths comparable to wire rope. The 1/8" diameter rope, for instance, has a breaking strength of 1800 pounds. Anyone who checked the JSL emergency buoy reel will have seen about a half mile of that stuff on a spool between the pilot's sphere and the diving compartment. It is seriously strong, easy to handle, and resistant to virtually everything, apparently (sun, salt water, heat, and so on). Great stuff. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades Be aware that when you start doing deeper dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just to drag that line through the water - particularly if holding position against a current. Don't go larger than necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and constant tension on the line. Sean On September 12, 2014 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a surface boat. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM I don't like nylon for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up. That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM You can attach a trawl buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help keep the line away from your prop. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 22:31:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:31:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <1410569918.25776.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410569918.25776.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D19D11FD705FF3-222C-4DA84@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> The Spectra 12 was chosen for that very reason, to use as a sending line in case of emergency. And we needed low drag as most of the JSL operations areas in the early days were in the Bahamas and Gulf Stream off Florida. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 9:05 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades I like the idea of a constant tension spool in the float, this way the float is always directly above the sub, or close at least. A strong line will be needed because I want to be able to slide a rescue cable down the float line. Unless I have two lift bags installed by then. :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/12/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 8:38 PM Why go for a strong breaking strain if you are just towing a float?Wouldn't you want something that just suffices in case it snags onanything?Alan Sent from my iPad On 13/09/2014, at 7:23 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Agreed. The best I've seen for this kind of thing is Spectra 12 from Novabraid--a hollow braided 12 strand rope with breaking strengths comparable to wire rope. The 1/8" diameter rope, for instance, has a breaking strength of 1800 pounds. Anyone who checked the JSL emergency buoy reel will have seen about a half mile of that stuff on a spool between the pilot's sphere and the diving compartment. It is seriously strong, easy to handle, and resistant to virtually everything, apparently (sun, salt water, heat, and so on). Great stuff. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:10 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades Be aware that when you start doing deeper dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just to drag that line through the water - particularly if holding position against a current. Don't go larger than necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and constant tension on the line. Sean On September 12, 2014 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for the flag since I don't have a surface boat. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM I don't like nylon for a surface tether because it soaks water over time and gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used it unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, Great idea, I am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is buoyant and so far it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was going down while I was going up. That is why I attached it to the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. Hank On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:23 PM You can attach a trawl buoy to your surface line 6-10 feet above the sub to help keep the line away from your prop. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Gamma has a modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I moved the fan inside the scrubber housing. I mounted removable airtight caps on the intake and exhaust ports, now I can leave the cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. I just remove the caps and turn on the scrubber. I also added to my safety gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have to bail out in freezing water. My diver below buoy and flag that I tow behind Gamma all the time is now detachable from inside. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 12 22:42:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:42:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades In-Reply-To: <8D19D11FD705FF3-222C-4DA84@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> References: <1410569918.25776.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8D19D11FD705FF3-222C-4DA84@webmail-vd019.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: If you're looking for line that is super strong yet very thin, check out online stores that supply skydivers. I think they call the stuff "canopy line" or something like that. I used to use it on an earlier version of Snoopy's emergency buoy. Best, Alec > On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:31 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The Spectra 12 was chosen for that very reason, to use as a sending line in case of emergency. And we needed low drag as most of the JSL operations areas in the early days were in the Bahamas and Gulf Stream off Florida. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 9:05 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > I like the idea of a constant tension spool in the float, this way the float is > always directly above the sub, or close at least. A strong line will be needed > because I want to be able to slide a rescue cable down the float line. Unless I > have two lift bags installed by then. :-) > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/12/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 8:38 PM > > Why go > for a strong breaking strain if you are just towing a > float?Wouldn't you want something that just > suffices in case it snags > onanything?Alan > > Sent from my iPad > On > 13/09/2014, at 7:23 am, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Agreed. The > best I've seen for this kind of thing is Spectra 12 from > Novabraid--a hollow braided 12 strand rope with breaking > strengths comparable to wire rope. The 1/8" diameter > rope, for instance, has a breaking strength of 1800 pounds. > Anyone who checked the JSL emergency buoy reel will have > seen about a half mile of that stuff on a spool between the > pilot's sphere and the diving compartment. It is > seriously strong, easy to handle, and resistant to virtually > everything, apparently (sun, salt water, heat, and so on). > Great stuff. > Vance > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 8:10 pm > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > > > > > > > > > > Be aware that when you start doing deeper > dives, a significant portion of your power will be used just > to drag that line through the water - particularly if > holding position against a current. Don't go larger than > necessary. You might want to consider a topsite float and > constant tension on the line. > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > On September 12, 2014 > 4:49:39 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Vance, > > I like this rope because it is buoyant so it is always going > straight up, also it never sinks into the prop on the > surface. It is not a tether really, it is a tow line for > the flag since I don't have a surface boat. > > Hank > > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Friday, September 12, 2014, 6:40 PM > > > > I don't like nylon > > for a surface tether because it soaks water over time > and > > gets negative and heavy. Quarter inch polypropylene is > > neutral and has a 1400# breaking strength. We always used > it > > unless there was a lift to do ( like long base acoustic > > transponders with a 300# bottom weight, for instance). > > Vance > > > > Sent > > from my iPhone > > > > On Sep > > 12, 2014, at 6:28 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Vance, > > Great idea, I > > am using 1/2 in yellow nylon rope that is > buoyant and so far > > it is good but,,, the other day I hit a tree and dragged > > it. When I was surfacing I noticed the buoy line was > going > > down while I was going up. That is why I attached it > to > > the sample bag winch. Clever yes? lol. > > Hank > > > > On Fri, 9/12/14, Vance Bradley > via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma upgrades > > To: > > "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > > Received: Friday, September 12, > 2014, 6:23 > > PM > > > > You can attach > > a trawl > > buoy to your surface line > 6-10 > > feet above the sub to help > > keep the > > line away from your prop. > > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Sep 12, 2014, at 6:13 PM, > hank > > pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Gamma has > > a > > modified scrubber that takes cartridges, I > moved the fan > > inside the scrubber housing. I > mounted > > removable airtight > > caps on the intake > > and exhaust ports, now I can leave the > > > > cartridge inside the scrubber all the time. > I just > > remove > > the caps and turn on the > > scrubber. I also added to my > > safety > > gear, I have a immersion suit in case I have > to bail > > out in freezing water. My > diver below > > buoy and flag that I > > tow behind Gamma > > all the time is now detachable from > > > > inside. > > > Hank > > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 14 13:24:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:24:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] k600 port Message-ID: <1410715479.26819.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Jon, Can you tell me the size of your bow window, is it the same dai as the K350 except thicker. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 14 21:40:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 18:40:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera system Message-ID: <1410745240.92293.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 14 21:43:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 18:43:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera system Message-ID: <1410745420.77288.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hello all, I am looking for a camera system for Gamma, I would like three cameras that will be placed in three windows with a monitor so I can see out the front and sides without leaving my seat. I would like one screen with images (split screen) Where do I look and what is it called. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 14 22:17:14 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:17:14 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera system In-Reply-To: <1410745420.77288.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410745420.77288.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <498CA643-278E-4DD1-A0D6-1548D1AED583@yahoo.com> So the cameras are just going inside the sub Hank? How big a screen do you want? How much do you want to pay? If it is inside the sub & you don't want to pay a lot, there are backing cameras for cars, or security cameras. They both don't have a long range, which would be fine for under water. I don't know how they would be for low light & resolution though. with the security cameras you should be able to get a split screen set up, but might be cheaper to just have individual screens. My local electronics store has several up & running so you can see the difference in quality. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/09/2014, at 8:43 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello all, I am looking for a camera system for Gamma, I would like three cameras that will be placed in three windows with a monitor so I can see out the front and sides without leaving my seat. I would like one screen with images (split screen) Where do I look and what is it called. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 14 23:09:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:09:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera system In-Reply-To: <498CA643-278E-4DD1-A0D6-1548D1AED583@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1410750559.99561.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Thanks' and yes all but one camera is going inside with magnetic mounts so the passenger can remove them as needed. I will go to out local electronics shop and have a look at security stuff. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/14/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] camera system To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 14, 2014, 10:17 PM So the cameras are just going inside the sub Hank? How big a screen do you want? How much do you want to pay? If it is inside the sub & you don't want to pay a lot, there are backing cameras for cars, or security cameras. They both don't have a long range, which would be fine for under water. I don't know how they would be for low light & resolution though. with the security cameras you should be able to get a split screen set up, but might be cheaper to just have individual screens. My local electronics store has several up & running so you can see the difference in quality. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/09/2014, at 8:43 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello all, I am looking for a camera system for Gamma, I would like three cameras that will be placed in three windows with a monitor so I can see out the front and sides without leaving my seat.? I would like one screen with images (split screen) Where do I look and what is it called. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 15 13:01:11 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:01:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing Message-ID: <20140915100111.67C732A1@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 15 20:10:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:10:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing In-Reply-To: <20140915100111.67C732A1@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1410826242.90150.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your oven set up. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing To: "PSubs" Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM Annealing going really well !??? Holding steady at 285 F?Brian? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 15 20:23:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing In-Reply-To: <1410826242.90150.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1410826242.90150.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your oven set up. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > To: "PSubs" > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM > > Annealing going really well > ! Holding steady at 285 > F Brian > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 15 21:51:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:51:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing Message-ID: <20140915185144.67C674D0@m0005296.ppops.net> It would not be a very impressive picture. An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk yard. I did actually get the controller and thermostat but I'm just doing it manually this time around. I did however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at the top and one in another block of acrylic. I'm able to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I calibrated the oven with my heat source. Rather than rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating element, what I'm doing is running a heating element controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners). That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up or down. So what happens is the oven loses heat at a fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will stay at that temperature. As long as there is no radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. The book has a number of different scenarios and recommendations for times and temperatures. The main thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your oven set up. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > To: "PSubs" > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM > > Annealing going really well > ! Holding steady at 285 > F Brian > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 15 23:18:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing In-Reply-To: <20140915185144.67C674D0@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1410837509.94052.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it for you. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM It would not be a very impressive picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating element, what I'm doing is running a heating element controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. The book has a number of different scenarios and recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your oven set up. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > To: "PSubs" > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM > > Annealing going really well > !? ? Holding steady at 285 > F Brian > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 16 00:21:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:21:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing Message-ID: <20140915212124.67D20C74@m0048137.ppops.net> I could send you one, they are 6" in Dia X 1 1/2" thick --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 Brian, All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it for you. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM It would not be a very impressive picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating element, what I'm doing is running a heating element controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. The book has a number of different scenarios and recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your oven set up. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > To: "PSubs" > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM > > Annealing going really well > !? ? Holding steady at 285 > F Brian > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 16 01:31:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:31:01 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horsepower Message-ID: Mainly for Vance, Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that? Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 19:31:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:31:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale Message-ID: <1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 19:57:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:57:02 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power Message-ID: I'm sending this again. Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me it has "no content" & no one replied. Mainly for Vance, Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that? Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 20:00:56 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:00:56 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: <1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0013B288-B05F-4831-83C1-0A25C64B0DDB@yahoo.com> That's sad Hank, the two of you were only together for a short while. I thought you were after camera's for her the other day! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/09/2014, at 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 20:09:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:09:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: <0013B288-B05F-4831-83C1-0A25C64B0DDB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video camera on the way to start testing. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 8:00 PM That's sad Hank, the two of you were only together for a short while. I thought you were after camera's for her the other day! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/09/2014, at 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma.? Please contact me at hankpronk at live.ca? if interested for details. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 20:27:42 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:27:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C921645-B5AF-44E9-B5B6-D3B2505C7FED@AOL.com> Alan, Loosely speaking that would be about correct. Limited to older prop designs perhaps. Back in the day, Perry ran a 7.5 hp motor in pc-5, PC-8 and ps-2, all of which ran to 6-tons(ish) in launch trim. The PC-9 weighed 12-tons or better and started life with the same drive package. It wasn't enough so when we retro-fitted her we went with (I think) 15, which was overkill. Then Intersub opted for what became the PC-1201 and her sisters. Based on the experience with the others and the PC-15 (which had two 10 hp units chained and clutched together driving through a reduction gear) they settled in for the standard which was 10hp. All of them drove big props through reduction gears and that drive complete weighed about 900 pounds and produced nearly that much of a bollard pull. The 18s used a different motor with no reduction gear but were also 10 hp. Phil Nuytten talks horsepower rather than pounds of thrust. The Newt-screws are variable depending on input voltage, as I understand it. Running 5-hp at 240 volts for instance means you could use two of those to replace the big Perry unit and save about 700 pounds of payload with roughly the same thrust output. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 18, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm sending this again. > Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me > it has "no content" & no one replied. > Mainly for Vance, > Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of > combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for > a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that? > Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 21:42:05 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:42:05 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power In-Reply-To: <5C921645-B5AF-44E9-B5B6-D3B2505C7FED@AOL.com> References: <5C921645-B5AF-44E9-B5B6-D3B2505C7FED@AOL.com> Message-ID: Thanks Vance, I'm working through the brushless thruster options. 7 out of 8 thruster manufacturers I've looked at use brushless motors. At least 1/2 either have, or give you the option of oil compensation. This could be for cooling as much as for deeper depth operation. I am working on 750 Watts = 1 hp. The bollard thrust figures seem to vary quite a bit in relation to the Watt ratings of the different motors / manufacturers. Nuytco has the best bollard thrust per watt at 70 lb. thrust for the 750W model but as the Watts go up, the thrust goes down ie 1,500W model has 110 lb. which is only slightly better than the Minn kotta 101. All a bit confusing. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/09/2014, at 7:27 am, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Loosely speaking that would be about correct. Limited to older prop designs perhaps. Back in the day, Perry ran a 7.5 hp motor in pc-5, PC-8 and ps-2, all of which ran to 6-tons(ish) in launch trim. The PC-9 weighed 12-tons or better and started life with the same drive package. It wasn't enough so when we retro-fitted her we went with (I think) 15, which was overkill. Then Intersub opted for what became the PC-1201 and her sisters. Based on the experience with emthe others and the PC-15 (which had two 10 hp units chained and clutched together driving through a reduction gear) they settled in for the standard which was 10hp. All of them drove big props through reduction gears and that drive complete weighed about 900 pounds and produced nearly that much of a bollard pull. The 18s used a different motor with no reduction gear but were also 10 hp. Phil Nuytten talks horsepower rather than pounds of thrust. The Newt-screws are variable depending on input voltage, as I understand ! > it. Running 5-hp at 240 volts for instance means you could use two of those to replace the big Perry unit and save about 700 pounds of payload with roughly the same thrust output. > Vance > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 18, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I'm sending this again. >> Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me >> it has "no content" & no one replied. >> Mainly for Vance, >> Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of >> combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for >> a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that? >> Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 21:43:43 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:43:43 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: <1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76C178AF-FA7A-4CC9-8AC2-A143930C1BFF@yahoo.com> Hank, are you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/09/2014, at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I want a sub with a bow dome, and I don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video camera on the way to start testing. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 8:00 PM > > That's sad Hank, > the two of you were only together for a short > while. > I thought you were after camera's > for her the other day! > Alan > > > Sent from my > iPad > >> On 19/09/2014, at > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> To anyone > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact > me at hankpronk at live.ca > if interested for details. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 21:48:39 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:48:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: <76C178AF-FA7A-4CC9-8AC2-A143930C1BFF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411091319.24419.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM Hank, are you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/09/2014, at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I want a sub with a bow dome, and I don't want to mess with changing Gamma.? If there is no buyers then I will install cameras.? I have one video camera on the way to start testing. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 8:00 PM > > That's sad Hank, > the two of you were only together for a short > while. > I thought you were after camera's > for her the other day! > Alan > > > Sent from my > iPad > >> On 19/09/2014, at > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> To anyone > interested, I am considering selling Gamma.? Please contact > me at hankpronk at live.ca > if interested for details. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 18 22:11:32 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:11:32 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: <1411091319.24419.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411091319.24419.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04905440-EB47-4C4A-BE29-1A809F6A97B2@yahoo.com> Hank, when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want to become an expert. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/09/2014, at 8:48 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM > > Hank, > are > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? > Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > >> On 19/09/2014, > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video > camera on the way to start testing. > Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, > 8:00 PM > That's sad Hank, >> the two of you > were only together for a short > while. >> I thought you were after > camera's >> for her the other day! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> >>> On 19/09/2014, at > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> To anyone > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please > contact >> me at hankpronk at live.ca > >> if interested for details. >>> Hank > _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 01:36:18 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:36:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure on how use this mailing list, i have a question about the seals on the k250 design,i mean the seals on the motors shaft 2014-09-18 17:27 GMT-07:00 via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: annealing (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: annealing (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Thruster Horsepower (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > 4. Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 5. Thruster Horse Power (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > 6. Re: Gamma for sale (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > 7. Re: Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 8. Re: Thruster Horse Power (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > Message-ID: > <1410837509.94052.YahooMailBasic at web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Brian, > All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it > for you. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM > > It would not be a very impressive > picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk > yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat > but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did > however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've > placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic > disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at > the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able > to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I > calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than > rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating > element, what I'm doing is running a heating element > controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? > That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific > amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up > or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a > fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will > stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! > radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp > will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. > > The book has a number of different scenarios and > recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main > thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 > > Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Brian, > > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your > oven set up. > > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > > To: "PSubs" > > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM > > > > Annealing going really well > > !? ? Holding steady at 285 > > F Brian > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:21:24 -0700 > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > Message-ID: <20140915212124.67D20C74 at m0048137.ppops.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I could send you one, they are 6" in Dia X 1 1/2" thick > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 > > Brian, > All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it > for you. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM > > It would not be a very impressive > picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk > yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat > but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did > however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've > placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic > disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at > the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able > to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I > calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than > rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating > element, what I'm doing is running a heating element > controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? > That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific > amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up > or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a > fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will > stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! > radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp > will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. > > The book has a number of different scenarios and > recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main > thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 > > Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Brian, > > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your > oven set up. > > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing > > To: "PSubs" > > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM > > > > Annealing going really well > > !? ? Holding steady at 285 > > F Brian > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:31:01 +0700 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horsepower > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Mainly for Vance, > Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about > 1 hp of > combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark > figure for > a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone > else remember that? > Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:31:15 -0700 > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > Message-ID: > <1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic at web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me > at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. > Hank > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:57:02 +0700 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I'm sending this again. > Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me > it has "no content" & no one replied. > Mainly for Vance, > Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about > 1 hp of > combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark > figure for > a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone > else remember that? > Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:00:56 +0700 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > Message-ID: <0013B288-B05F-4831-83C1-0A25C64B0DDB at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > That's sad Hank, > the two of you were only together for a short while. > I thought you were after camera's for her the other day! > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 19/09/2014, at 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me > at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:09:44 -0700 > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > Message-ID: > <1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic at web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > I want a sub with a bow dome, and I don't want to mess with changing > Gamma. If there is no buyers then I will install cameras. I have one > video camera on the way to start testing. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 8:00 PM > > That's sad Hank, > the two of you were only together for a short > while. > I thought you were after camera's > for her the other day! > Alan > > > Sent from my > iPad > > > On 19/09/2014, at > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > > > To anyone > interested, I am considering selling Gamma.? Please contact > me at hankpronk at live.ca? > if interested for details. > > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:27:42 -0400 > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power > Message-ID: <5C921645-B5AF-44E9-B5B6-D3B2505C7FED at AOL.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Alan, > Loosely speaking that would be about correct. Limited to older prop > designs perhaps. Back in the day, Perry ran a 7.5 hp motor in pc-5, PC-8 > and ps-2, all of which ran to 6-tons(ish) in launch trim. The PC-9 weighed > 12-tons or better and started life with the same drive package. It wasn't > enough so when we retro-fitted her we went with (I think) 15, which was > overkill. Then Intersub opted for what became the PC-1201 and her sisters. > Based on the experience with the others and the PC-15 (which had two 10 hp > units chained and clutched together driving through a reduction gear) they > settled in for the standard which was 10hp. All of them drove big props > through reduction gears and that drive complete weighed about 900 pounds > and produced nearly that much of a bollard pull. The 18s used a different > motor with no reduction gear but were also 10 hp. Phil Nuytten talks > horsepower rather than pounds of thrust. The Newt-screws are variable > depending on input voltage, as I understand ! > it. Running 5-hp at 240 volts for instance means you could use two of > those to replace the big Perry unit and save about 700 pounds of payload > with roughly the same thrust output. > Vance > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 18, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I'm sending this again. > > Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me > > it has "no content" & no one replied. > > Mainly for Vance, > > Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of > about 1 hp of > > combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark > figure for > > a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone > else remember that? > > Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50 > ***************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 05:04:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:04:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're coming through fine, so fire away. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:36 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Not sure on how use this mailing list, i have a question about the seals on the k250 design,i mean the seals on the motors shaft > > 2014-09-18 17:27 GMT-07:00 via Personal_Submersibles : >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: annealing (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: annealing (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) >> 3. Thruster Horsepower (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> 4. Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 5. Thruster Horse Power (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> 6. Re: Gamma for sale (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> 7. Re: Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 8. Re: Thruster Horse Power (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Message-ID: >> <1410837509.94052.YahooMailBasic at web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Brian, >> All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it for you. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM >> >> It would not be a very impressive >> picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk >> yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat >> but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did >> however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've >> placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic >> disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at >> the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able >> to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I >> calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than >> rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating >> element, what I'm doing is running a heating element >> controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? >> That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific >> amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up >> or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a >> fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will >> stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! >> radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp >> will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. >> >> The book has a number of different scenarios and >> recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main >> thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 >> >> Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> > Brian, >> > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your >> oven set up. >> > Hank >> > -------------------------------------------- >> > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> > >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> > To: "PSubs" >> > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM >> > >> > Annealing going really well >> > !? ? Holding steady at 285 >> > F Brian >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:21:24 -0700 >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Message-ID: <20140915212124.67D20C74 at m0048137.ppops.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> I could send you one, they are 6" in Dia X 1 1/2" thick >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 >> >> Brian, >> All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it for you. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM >> >> It would not be a very impressive >> picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk >> yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat >> but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did >> however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've >> placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic >> disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at >> the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able >> to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I >> calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than >> rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating >> element, what I'm doing is running a heating element >> controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? >> That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific >> amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up >> or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a >> fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will >> stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! >> radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp >> will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. >> >> The book has a number of different scenarios and >> recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main >> thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 >> >> Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> > Brian, >> > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your >> oven set up. >> > Hank >> > -------------------------------------------- >> > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> > >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> > To: "PSubs" >> > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM >> > >> > Annealing going really well >> > !? ? Holding steady at 285 >> > F Brian >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:31:01 +0700 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horsepower >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Mainly for Vance, >> Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of >> combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for >> a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that? >> Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:31:15 -0700 >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> Message-ID: >> <1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic at web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. >> Hank >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:57:02 +0700 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I'm sending this again. >> Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me >> it has "no content" & no one replied. >> Mainly for Vance, >> Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of >> combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for >> a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that? >> Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:00:56 +0700 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> Message-ID: <0013B288-B05F-4831-83C1-0A25C64B0DDB at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> That's sad Hank, >> the two of you were only together for a short while. >> I thought you were after camera's for her the other day! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 19/09/2014, at 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. >> > Hank >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:09:44 -0700 >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> Message-ID: >> <1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic at web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video camera on the way to start testing. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 8:00 PM >> >> That's sad Hank, >> the two of you were only together for a short >> while. >> I thought you were after camera's >> for her the other day! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> >> > On 19/09/2014, at >> 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> > To anyone >> interested, I am considering selling Gamma.? Please contact >> me at hankpronk at live.ca? >> if interested for details. >> > Hank >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:27:42 -0400 >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power >> Message-ID: <5C921645-B5AF-44E9-B5B6-D3B2505C7FED at AOL.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Alan, >> Loosely speaking that would be about correct. Limited to older prop designs perhaps. Back in the day, Perry ran a 7.5 hp motor in pc-5, PC-8 and ps-2, all of which ran to 6-tons(ish) in launch trim. The PC-9 weighed 12-tons or better and started life with the same drive package. It wasn't enough so when we retro-fitted her we went with (I think) 15, which was overkill. Then Intersub opted for what became the PC-1201 and her sisters. Based on the experience with the others and the PC-15 (which had two 10 hp units chained and clutched together driving through a reduction gear) they settled in for the standard which was 10hp. All of them drove big props through reduction gears and that drive complete weighed about 900 pounds and produced nearly that much of a bollard pull. The 18s used a different motor with no reduction gear but were also 10 hp. Phil Nuytten talks horsepower rather than pounds of thrust. The Newt-screws are variable depending on input voltage, as I understand ! >> it. Running 5-hp at 240 volts for instance means you could use two of those to replace the big Perry unit and save about 700 pounds of payload with roughly the same thrust output. >> Vance >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Sep 18, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > I'm sending this again. >> > Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me >> > it has "no content" & no one replied. >> > Mainly for Vance, >> > Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of about 1 hp of >> > combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark figure for >> > a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone else remember that? >> > Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. >> > Alan >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50 >> ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 05:18:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:18:40 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? Message-ID: <55E37A51-FCBD-4269-8A55-FC2D785DBF60@upplevelsepresent.se> Hi, I?m interested in finding two instruments, I hope I can get some pointers from you guys. First of all, i?d like to find an instrument that shows if the sub is rising or descending, like the ones found in airplane (variometer). I have googled and googled but can?t find anything. Does anyone have any suggestions how i can see (with an instrument) if the sub is stationary or moving up and down? Secondly, I?m looking for a digital solution to show my passengers how deep we are (or what pressure is outside), I have been told that there are such instruments but could?t find any. All pointers and suggestions to specific products is appreciated. Below is a news coverage about our sub, made by swedish television. http://www.tv4.se/nyhetsmorgon/klipp/maria-forsblom-pr%C3%B6var-livet-under-ytan-2784847 Cheers, Lasse From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 07:21:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 04:21:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? In-Reply-To: <55E37A51-FCBD-4269-8A55-FC2D785DBF60@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1411125715.85151.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Lasse, I have not heard of a gauge that tells you if you are sinking or surfacing. I use a scuba depth gauge outside my port at the moment. I can tell if I am stationary when the needle is not moving. Other members have digital depth gauges that would work better yet because of the degree of accuracy. Another solution is a depth sonar (fish finder) That will tell you the depth of water below you and it will tell you if you are moving up down or not at all. You could mount a scuba digital depth gauge outside the passenger window and they could watch the depth change while watching the scenery. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9/19/14, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, September 19, 2014, 5:18 AM Hi, I?m interested in finding two instruments, I hope I can get some pointers from you guys. First of all, i?d like to find an instrument that shows if the sub is rising or descending, like the ones found in airplane (variometer). I have googled? and googled but can?t find anything. Does anyone have any suggestions how i can see (with an instrument) if the sub is stationary or moving up and down? Secondly, I?m looking for a digital solution to show my passengers how deep we are (or what pressure is outside), I have been told that there are such instruments but could?t find any. All pointers and suggestions to specific products is appreciated. Below is a news coverage about our sub, made by swedish television. http://www.tv4.se/nyhetsmorgon/klipp/maria-forsblom-pr%C3%B6var-livet-under-ytan-2784847 Cheers, Lasse _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 07:38:03 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 18:38:03 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? In-Reply-To: <1411125715.85151.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411125715.85151.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Lasse, a couple of ways of doing it are to use a Parker pressure gauge or similar mounted inside the hull either high up, with a tube from it to the outside, coming in low down in your sub. ( so only air not sea water gets to the gauge ). Or as one psubber has done, have an oil filled tube coming to the pressure gauge, with a "solder sucker" on the tube mounted outside the hull. The digital gauge I have has options of feet, bar, psi, inches, & other things I can't remember. Hope that's clear. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/09/2014, at 6:21 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Lasse, > I have not heard of a gauge that tells you if you are sinking or surfacing. I use a scuba depth gauge outside my port at the moment. I can tell if I am stationary when the needle is not moving. Other members have digital depth gauges that would work better yet because of the degree of accuracy. ea water gets to the gauge > Another solution is a depth sonar (fish finder) That will tell you the depth of water below you and it will tell you if you are moving up down or not at all. > You could mount a scuba digital depth gauge outside the passenger window and they could watch the depth change while watching the scenery. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 9/19/14, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, September 19, 2014, 5:18 AM > > Hi, > > I?m interested in finding two instruments, I hope I can get > some pointers from you guys. > First of all, i?d like to find an instrument that shows if > the sub is rising or descending, like the ones found in > airplane (variometer). I have googled and googled but > can?t find anything. > Does anyone have any suggestions how i can see (with an > instrument) if the sub is stationary or moving up and down? > > Secondly, I?m looking for a digital solution to show my > passengers how deep we are (or what pressure is outside), I > have been told that there are such instruments but could?t > find any. > > All pointers and suggestions to specific products is > appreciated. > Below is a news coverage about our sub, made by swedish > television. > http://www.tv4.se/nyhetsmorgon/klipp/maria-forsblom-pr%C3%B6var-livet-under-ytan-2784847 > > > Cheers, Lasse > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 08:57:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:57:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? In-Reply-To: <55E37A51-FCBD-4269-8A55-FC2D785DBF60@upplevelsepresent.se> References: <55E37A51-FCBD-4269-8A55-FC2D785DBF60@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1411131422.45126.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Lasse, It would be very straight forward to build your own depth measuring and display system that could also tell you if your are going up or downs. The parts would be a simple PLC with at least one analog input channel, a 0-10 vdc pressure transmitter to measure ambient water pressure and inexpensive display. Ladder logic would be easy to right as all you are doing calculating depth as a function of pressure and density. Again simple calculation in PLC to determine if you are ascending or decending based on pressure change i.e, if ambient pressure is increasing, you are descending and descreaing, you are ascending. 1. Cheap PLC ($129) http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-02DD2-D 2. Cheap pressure transmitter ($125) http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Pressure_Sensors/Pressure_Transmitters/Ceramic_Sensing_Element_-_M12_Cable_Connection/PTD25-10-0200H 3. Cheap display ($161) http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/3_inch_Panels_-a-_Accessories/EA1-S3ML-N 4. Cheap software ($0) to program the PLC http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-00DR-D and Display http://support.automationdirect.com/products/cmoremicro.html 5. Total cost $415 6. Of course if you already had a PLC for boat systems, then all you would need is pressure transmitter and a bit of ladder logic programming. 7. Finally, you can always go old school install a manual depth gage http://www.weksler-gauges.com/pdf/p22.pdf Cliff From: Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 4:18 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? Hi, I?m interested in finding two instruments, I hope I can get some pointers from you guys. First of all, i?d like to find an instrument that shows if the sub is rising or descending, like the ones found in airplane (variometer). I have googled and googled but can?t find anything. Does anyone have any suggestions how i can see (with an instrument) if the sub is stationary or moving up and down? Secondly, I?m looking for a digital solution to show my passengers how deep we are (or what pressure is outside), I have been told that there are such instruments but could?t find any. All pointers and suggestions to specific products is appreciated. Below is a news coverage about our sub, made by swedish television. http://www.tv4.se/nyhetsmorgon/klipp/maria-forsblom-pr%C3%B6var-livet-under-ytan-2784847 Cheers, Lasse _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 08:58:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:58:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hola Roberto, I have a K-250 and a set of plans, but most everyone these days puts trolling motors on them, so that part of the design typically doesn't apply any longer. But anyway, what is the question? Just pose it here, and if any of us have an answer we'll respond. BTW where are you? If anywhere near an existing PSUBBER with a K boat, it can be constructive to just pay a visit. Best, Alec On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:36 AM, roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Not sure on how use this mailing list, i have a question about the seals > on the k250 design,i mean the seals on the motors shaft > > 2014-09-18 17:27 GMT-07:00 via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: annealing (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: annealing (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) >> 3. Thruster Horsepower (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> 4. Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 5. Thruster Horse Power (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> 6. Re: Gamma for sale (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> 7. Re: Gamma for sale (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 8. Re: Thruster Horse Power (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Message-ID: >> <1410837509.94052.YahooMailBasic at web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Brian, >> All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it >> for you. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM >> >> It would not be a very impressive >> picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk >> yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat >> but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did >> however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've >> placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic >> disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at >> the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able >> to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I >> calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than >> rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating >> element, what I'm doing is running a heating element >> controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? >> That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific >> amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up >> or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a >> fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will >> stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! >> radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp >> will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. >> >> The book has a number of different scenarios and >> recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main >> thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 >> >> Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> > Brian, >> > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your >> oven set up. >> > Hank >> > -------------------------------------------- >> > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> > >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> > To: "PSubs" >> > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM >> > >> > Annealing going really well >> > !? ? Holding steady at 285 >> > F Brian >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:21:24 -0700 >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Message-ID: <20140915212124.67D20C74 at m0048137.ppops.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> I could send you one, they are 6" in Dia X 1 1/2" thick >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:18:29 -0700 >> >> Brian, >> All I can say is , VERY COOL! You should send me one and I will test it >> for you. >> Hank >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 9:51 PM >> >> It would not be a very impressive >> picture.? An old electric oven I got out of a oven junk >> yard.? I did actually get the controller and thermostat >> but I'm just doing it manually this time around.? I did >> however purchase 4 digital temperature sensors that I've >> placed at various locations, one in an identical acrylic >> disk like the ones I'm annealing, one in the middle, one at >> the top and one in another block of acrylic.? I'm able >> to control the temperature extremely well, earlier I >> calibrated the oven with my heat source.? Rather than >> rely on an on off thermostat controlling an electric heating >> element, what I'm doing is running a heating element >> controlled by a rheostat ( one of the top burners).? >> That way the burner is always on, but delivering a specific >> amount of heat depending on how high I turn the rheostat up >> or down.? So what happens is the oven loses heat at a >> fairly constant rate, wherever I set the dial the oven will >> stay at that temperature.? As long as there is no ! >> radical fluctuation of the room temperature the oven temp >> will be very even, so far it's worked out really well. >> >> The book has a number of different scenarios and >> recommendations for times and temperatures.? The main >> thing is the hold temps and a very gradual ramping. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:23:44 +0700 >> >> Is that with the kiln controller off ebay Brian? >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 16/09/2014, at 7:10 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > >> > Brian, >> > That sounds very promising, how about a picture of your >> oven set up. >> > Hank >> > -------------------------------------------- >> > On Mon, 9/15/14, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> > >> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] annealing >> > To: "PSubs" >> > Received: Monday, September 15, 2014, 1:01 PM >> > >> > Annealing going really well >> > !? ? Holding steady at 285 >> > F Brian >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:31:01 +0700 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horsepower >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Mainly for Vance, >> Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of >> about 1 hp of >> combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark >> figure for >> a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone >> else remember that? >> Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:31:15 -0700 >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> Message-ID: >> <1411083075.30772.YahooMailBasic at web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact me >> at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. >> Hank >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:57:02 +0700 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I'm sending this again. >> Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me >> it has "no content" & no one replied. >> Mainly for Vance, >> Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of >> about 1 hp of >> combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark >> figure for >> a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone >> else remember that? >> Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:00:56 +0700 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> Message-ID: <0013B288-B05F-4831-83C1-0A25C64B0DDB at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> That's sad Hank, >> the two of you were only together for a short while. >> I thought you were after camera's for her the other day! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 19/09/2014, at 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > To anyone interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please contact >> me at hankpronk at live.ca if interested for details. >> > Hank >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:09:44 -0700 >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> Message-ID: >> <1411085384.57642.YahooMailBasic at web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I don't want to mess with changing >> Gamma. If there is no buyers then I will install cameras. I have one >> video camera on the way to start testing. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 8:00 PM >> >> That's sad Hank, >> the two of you were only together for a short >> while. >> I thought you were after camera's >> for her the other day! >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my >> iPad >> >> > On 19/09/2014, at >> 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> wrote: >> > >> > To anyone >> interested, I am considering selling Gamma.? Please contact >> me at hankpronk at live.ca? >> if interested for details. >> > Hank >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:27:42 -0400 >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Horse Power >> Message-ID: <5C921645-B5AF-44E9-B5B6-D3B2505C7FED at AOL.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Alan, >> Loosely speaking that would be about correct. Limited to older prop >> designs perhaps. Back in the day, Perry ran a 7.5 hp motor in pc-5, PC-8 >> and ps-2, all of which ran to 6-tons(ish) in launch trim. The PC-9 weighed >> 12-tons or better and started life with the same drive package. It wasn't >> enough so when we retro-fitted her we went with (I think) 15, which was >> overkill. Then Intersub opted for what became the PC-1201 and her sisters. >> Based on the experience with the others and the PC-15 (which had two 10 hp >> units chained and clutched together driving through a reduction gear) they >> settled in for the standard which was 10hp. All of them drove big props >> through reduction gears and that drive complete weighed about 900 pounds >> and produced nearly that much of a bollard pull. The 18s used a different >> motor with no reduction gear but were also 10 hp. Phil Nuytten talks >> horsepower rather than pounds of thrust. The Newt-screws are variable >> depending on input voltage, as I understand ! >> it. Running 5-hp at 240 volts for instance means you could use two of >> those to replace the big Perry unit and save about 700 pounds of payload >> with roughly the same thrust output. >> Vance >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Sep 18, 2014, at 7:57 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > I'm sending this again. >> > Apologies if it came through previously, but yahoo is telling me >> > it has "no content" & no one replied. >> > Mainly for Vance, >> > Vance I think off the top of your head you came up with a figure of >> about 1 hp of >> > combined horizontal thrust for every ton of submarine, as a ballpark >> figure for >> > a lot of the subs you are familiar with. Is that correct or can anyone >> else remember that? >> > Also what was the Deep Workers new thruster rating thanks. >> > Alan >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50 >> ***************************************************** >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 13:04:00 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8gIg==?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 19 Sep 2014 17:04 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: <04905440-EB47-4C4A-BE29-1A809F6A97B2@yahoo.com> References: <1411091319.24419.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <04905440-EB47-4C4A-BE29-1A809F6A97B2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1XV1cH-0BsOyO0@fwd10.t-online.de> Ask Emile, he has the tool, a brandnew full man size oven and a price for a dome without classification is more than fair. vbr Carsten "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Hank, > when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want > to become an expert. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 19/09/2014, at 8:48 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. > > > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM > > > > Hank, > > are > > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? > > Alan > > > > Sent from > > my iPad > > > >> On 19/09/2014, > > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I > > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no > > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video > > camera on the way to start testing. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > >> To: > > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, > > 8:00 PM > > That's sad Hank, > >> the two of you > > were only together for a short > > while. > >> I thought you were after > > camera's > >> for her the other day! > >> Alan > >> > >> > >> Sent from my > >> iPad > >> > >>> On 19/09/2014, at > > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> To anyone > > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please > > contact > >> me at hankpronk at live.ca > > > >> if interested for details. > >>> Hank > > _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 18:35:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 18:35:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: <1XV1cH-0BsOyO0@fwd10.t-online.de> References: <1411091319.24419.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <04905440-EB47-4C4A-BE29-1A809F6A97B2@yahoo.com> <1XV1cH-0BsOyO0@fwd10.t-online.de> Message-ID: Emile, How about it, Emile? What is the current rate for a 300 meter capable bow and hatch port? With frames? Without? Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Ask Emile, he has the tool, a brandnew full man size oven > and a price for a dome without classification is more than fair. > > vbr Carsten > > "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Hank, > > when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want > > to become an expert. > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On 19/09/2014, at 8:48 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > > > > Alan, > > > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. > > > > > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM > > > > > > Hank, > > > are > > > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? > > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from > > > my iPad > > > > > >> On 19/09/2014, > > > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I > > > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no > > > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video > > > camera on the way to start testing. > > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via > > > Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Subject: > > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > > >> To: > > > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, > > > 8:00 PM > > > That's sad Hank, > > >> the two of you > > > were only together for a short > > > while. > > >> I thought you were after > > > camera's > > >> for her the other day! > > >> Alan > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from my > > >> iPad > > >> > > >>> On 19/09/2014, at > > > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> To anyone > > > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please > > > contact > > >> me at hankpronk at live.ca > > > > > >> if interested for details. > > >>> Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 19 18:48:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 05:48:41 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: References: <1411091319.24419.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <04905440-EB47-4C4A-BE29-1A809F6A97B2@yahoo.com> <1XV1cH-0BsOyO0@fwd10.t-online.de> Message-ID: Emile, any pictures of your new set up? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 20/09/2014, at 5:35 am, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Emile, > How about it, Emile? What is the current rate for a 300 meter capable bow and hatch port? With frames? Without? > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Ask Emile, he has the tool, a brandnew full man size oven >> and a price for a dome without classification is more than fair. >> >> vbr Carsten >> >> "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: >> > Hank, >> > when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want >> > to become an expert. >> > Alan >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > > On 19/09/2014, at 8:48 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > Alan, >> > > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. >> > > >> > > Hank-------------------------------------------- >> > > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> > > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM >> > > >> > > Hank, >> > > are >> > > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? >> > > Alan >> > > >> > > Sent from >> > > my iPad >> > > >> > >> On 19/09/2014, >> > > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I >> > > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no >> > > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video >> > > camera on the way to start testing. >> > > Hank-------------------------------------------- >> > >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via >> > > Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Subject: >> > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >> > >> To: >> > > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> > >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, >> > > 8:00 PM >> > > That's sad Hank, >> > >> the two of you >> > > were only together for a short >> > > while. >> > >> I thought you were after >> > > camera's >> > >> for her the other day! >> > >> Alan >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Sent from my >> > >> iPad >> > >> >> > >>> On 19/09/2014, at >> > > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>> To anyone >> > > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please >> > > contact >> > >> me at hankpronk at live.ca >> > > >> > >> if interested for details. >> > >>> Hank >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 12:26:49 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:26:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma external air Message-ID: <1411230409.97297.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Today I am mounting my external 120 cubic foot hp tanks on Gamma. Is there a reason why I should have a shut off valve on the tank? It is not like I can get out to shut it off in the water if it is leaking. I fill the tank from my onboard air compressor, so there is no need to remove the tank. I have a shut off valve inside the hull at the penetration. Any thoughts Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 16:27:23 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:27:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma external air In-Reply-To: <1411230409.97297.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411230409.97297.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not for a permanent installation. The valve isn't used enough to stay healthy, and if it fails, you can't do anything about it (at depth). The fewer moving parts, the better. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 20, 2014, at 12:26 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Today I am mounting my external 120 cubic foot hp tanks on Gamma. Is there a reason why I should have a shut off valve on the tank? It is not like I can get out to shut it off in the water if it is leaking. I fill the tank from my onboard air compressor, so there is no need to remove the tank. I have a shut off valve inside the hull at the penetration. Any thoughts > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 16:30:16 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:30:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma external air In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1411245016.53656.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, Thank you, that is what I thought. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 9/20/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma external air To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, September 20, 2014, 4:27 PM Not for a permanent installation. The valve isn't used enough to stay healthy, and if it fails, you can't do anything about it (at depth). The fewer moving parts, the better. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 20, 2014, at 12:26 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Today I am mounting my external 120 cubic foot hp tanks on Gamma.? Is there a reason why I should have a shut off valve on the tank?? It is not like I can get out to shut it off in the water if it is leaking.? I fill the tank from my onboard air compressor, so there is no need to remove the tank.? I have a shut off valve inside the hull at the penetration.? Any thoughts > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 16:43:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:43:01 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Alan, Attached a picture of the setup. An oven integrated with press. It can fit the largest stock size thick Acrylic sheet (1300 mm) Vance , I get back to you offlist. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 20 september 2014 0:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale Emile, any pictures of your new set up? Alan Sent from my iPad On 20/09/2014, at 5:35 am, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Emile, How about it, Emile? What is the current rate for a 300 meter capable bow and hatch port? With frames? Without? Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ask Emile, he has the tool, a brandnew full man size oven and a price for a dome without classification is more than fair. vbr Carsten "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Hank, > when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want > to become an expert. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 19/09/2014 , at 8:48 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. > > > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM > > > > Hank, > > are > > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? > > Alan > > > > Sent from > > my iPad > > > >> On 19/09/2014 , > > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I > > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no > > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video > > camera on the way to start testing. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > >> To: > > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, > > 8:00 PM > > That's sad Hank, > >> the two of you > > were only together for a short > > while. > >> I thought you were after > > camera's > >> for her the other day! > >> Alan > >> > >> > >> Sent from my > >> iPad > >> > >>> On 19/09/2014 , at > > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> To anyone > > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please > > contact > >> me at hankpronk at live.ca > > > >> if interested for details. > >>> Hank > > _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: glymur koepel 006.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 23974 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 16:58:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:58:45 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale/dometool/pilotfish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The PV of the pilotfish is finished! The hull Note the dometool on the background. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 20 september 2014 0:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale Emile, any pictures of your new set up? Alan Sent from my iPad On 20/09/2014, at 5:35 am, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Emile, How about it, Emile? What is the current rate for a 300 meter capable bow and hatch port? With frames? Without? Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ask Emile, he has the tool, a brandnew full man size oven and a price for a dome without classification is more than fair. vbr Carsten "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Hank, > when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want > to become an expert. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 19/09/2014 , at 8:48 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. > > > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM > > > > Hank, > > are > > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? > > Alan > > > > Sent from > > my iPad > > > >> On 19/09/2014 , > > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I > > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no > > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video > > camera on the way to start testing. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > >> To: > > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, > > 8:00 PM > > That's sad Hank, > >> the two of you > > were only together for a short > > while. > >> I thought you were after > > camera's > >> for her the other day! > >> Alan > >> > >> > >> Sent from my > >> iPad > >> > >>> On 19/09/2014 , at > > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> To anyone > > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please > > contact > >> me at hankpronk at live.ca > > > >> if interested for details. > >>> Hank > > _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CorPF1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 30193 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CORPF3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 46305 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 17:21:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:21:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale Message-ID: <20140920142106.8F2B6A06@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 19:34:33 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:34:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D1A342912B11FE-3AC0-12C71@webmail-vm041.sysops.aol.com> Emile, Okay. Thanks. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sat, Sep 20, 2014 4:43 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale Hi Alan, Attached a picture of thesetup. An oven integrated with press. It can fit the largest stock size thickAcrylic sheet (1300 mm) Vance , I get back to youofflist. Regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 20 september2014 0:49 Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]Gamma for sale Emile, any pictures of your new set up? Alan Sent from my iPad On 20/09/2014, at 5:35 am, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Emile, How about it, Emile? What is the current rate for a 300 meter capable bow andhatch port? With frames? Without? Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibleswrote: Ask Emile, he has the tool, a brandnew full man sizeoven and a price for a dome without classification is more than fair. vbr Carsten "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Hank, > when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want > to become an expert. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 19/09/2014, at 8:48 am, hank pronk viaPersonal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time butbetter leave that to the experts. > > > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM > > > > Hank, > > are > > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? > > Alan > > > > Sent from > > my iPad > > > >> On 19/09/2014, > > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I > > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no > > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video > > camera on the way to start testing. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via > > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> > >> Subject: > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > >> To: > > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, > > 8:00 PM > > That's sad Hank, > >> the two of you > > were only together for a short > > while. > >> I thought you were after > > camera's > >> for her the other day! > >> Alan > >> > >> > >> Sent from my > >> iPad > >> > >>> On 19/09/2014, at > > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> To anyone > > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please > > contact > >> me at hankpronk at live.ca > > > >> if interested for details. > >>> Hank > > _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 20 21:12:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:12:55 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow that looks great Emile. Thanks. Are you using hydraulic clamps to hold the acrylic? We talked about possibly using them to adjust the pressure on either side to stop more acrylic dragging from one side than the other during forming. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 21/09/2014, at 3:43 am, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Attached a picture of the setup. An oven integrated with press. It can fit the largest stock size thick Acrylic sheet (1300 mm) > > Vance , I get back to you offlist. > > Regards, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: zaterdag 20 september 2014 0:49 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale > > Emile, > any pictures of your new set up? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 20/09/2014, at 5:35 am, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Emile, >> How about it, Emile? What is the current rate for a 300 meter capable bow and hatch port? With frames? Without? >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "Carsten Standfu? " via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Ask Emile, he has the tool, a brandnew full man size oven >>> and a price for a dome without classification is more than fair. >>> >>> vbr Carsten >>> >>> "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: >>> > Hank, >>> > when you get a price for a bow dome + transportation you might want >>> > to become an expert. >>> > Alan >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPad >>> > >>> > > On 19/09/2014, at 8:48 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Alan, >>> > > I don't want to go down that road. I know I did at one time but better leave that to the experts. >>> > > >>> > > Hank-------------------------------------------- >>> > > On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> > > >>> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >>> > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> > > Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, 9:43 PM >>> > > >>> > > Hank, >>> > > are >>> > > you going to have a go at pressing the dome??? >>> > > Alan >>> > > >>> > > Sent from >>> > > my iPad >>> > > >>> > >> On 19/09/2014, >>> > > at 7:09 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> > > wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> I want a sub with a bow dome, and I >>> > > don't want to mess with changing Gamma. If there is no >>> > > buyers then I will install cameras. I have one video >>> > > camera on the way to start testing. >>> > > Hank-------------------------------------------- >>> > >> On Thu, 9/18/14, Alan via >>> > > Personal_Submersibles >>> > > wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >> Subject: >>> > > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma for sale >>> > >> To: >>> > > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> > >> Received: Thursday, September 18, 2014, >>> > > 8:00 PM >>> > > That's sad Hank, >>> > >> the two of you >>> > > were only together for a short >>> > > while. >>> > >> I thought you were after >>> > > camera's >>> > >> for her the other day! >>> > >> Alan >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> Sent from my >>> > >> iPad >>> > >> >>> > >>> On 19/09/2014, at >>> > > 6:31 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> > >> wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> To anyone >>> > > interested, I am considering selling Gamma. Please >>> > > contact >>> > >> me at hankpronk at live.ca >>> > > >>> > >> if interested for details. >>> > >>> Hank >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 02:18:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:18:51 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? In-Reply-To: <1411131422.45126.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <55E37A51-FCBD-4269-8A55-FC2D785DBF60@upplevelsepresent.se> <1411131422.45126.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <186201E2-5C74-47AF-931A-AA04B81C1D90@upplevelsepresent.se> Cliff this was very helpful, thank you. Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm 19 sep 2014 kl. 15:00 skrev "Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles" >: Lasse, It would be very straight forward to build your own depth measuring and display system that could also tell you if your are going up or downs. The parts would be a simple PLC with at least one analog input channel, a 0-10 vdc pressure transmitter to measure ambient water pressure and inexpensive display. Ladder logic would be easy to right as all you are doing calculating depth as a function of pressure and density. Again simple calculation in PLC to determine if you are ascending or decending based on pressure change i.e, if ambient pressure is increasing, you are descending and descreaing, you are ascending. 1. Cheap PLC ($129) http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-02DD2-D 2. Cheap pressure transmitter ($125) http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Pressure_Sensors/Pressure_Transmitters/Ceramic_Sensing_Element_-_M12_Cable_Connection/PTD25-10-0200H 3. Cheap display ($161) http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/3_inch_Panels_-a-_Accessories/EA1-S3ML-N 4. Cheap software ($0) to program the PLC http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-00DR-D and Display http://support.automationdirect.com/products/cmoremicro.html 5. Total cost $415 6. Of course if you already had a PLC for boat systems, then all you would need is pressure transmitter and a bit of ladder logic programming. 7. Finally, you can always go old school install a manual depth gage http://www.weksler-gauges.com/pdf/p22.pdf Cliff From: Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 4:18 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure change indicator? Hi, I?m interested in finding two instruments, I hope I can get some pointers from you guys. First of all, i?d like to find an instrument that shows if the sub is rising or descending, like the ones found in airplane (variometer). I have googled and googled but can?t find anything. Does anyone have any suggestions how i can see (with an instrument) if the sub is stationary or moving up and down? Secondly, I?m looking for a digital solution to show my passengers how deep we are (or what pressure is outside), I have been told that there are such instruments but could?t find any. All pointers and suggestions to specific products is appreciated. Below is a news coverage about our sub, made by swedish television. http://www.tv4.se/nyhetsmorgon/klipp/maria-forsblom-pr%C3%B6var-livet-under-ytan-2784847 Cheers, Lasse _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 15:08:55 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 12:08:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma arm Message-ID: <1411326535.67410.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 15:19:31 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 12:19:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Message-ID: <1411327171.91063.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, I removed the arm from gamma along with the valve and supporting stuff. Turns out that package is chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! I have to admit, it was a bad idea to mount the valve inside the ballast tank area. A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging the windows. As part of my renovation, I am mounting the arm and valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank along with a thruster package. The entire assembly including thrusters will be jettisoning. Dan Lance gave me a video to watch called The dry divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That little arm is quite impressive. I would like to see the plans for it. I did not realize it actually used an actual Q ball. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 15:37:40 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 15:37:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <1411327171.91063.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411327171.91063.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D1A3EAA3980E8C-1240-15234@webmail-va053.sysops.aol.com> Hank, Pretty heavy, but about what we figured. Vance -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 3:19 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Vance, I removed the arm from gamma along with the valve and supporting stuff. Turns out that package is chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! I have to admit, it was a bad idea to mount the valve inside the ballast tank area. A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging the windows. As part of my renovation, I am mounting the arm and valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank along with a thruster package. The entire assembly including thrusters will be jettisoning. Dan Lance gave me a video to watch called The dry divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That little arm is quite impressive. I would like to see the plans for it. I did not realize it actually used an actual Q ball. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 19:11:52 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:11:52 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <1411327171.91063.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411327171.91063.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I investigated the idea of modifying a large ball valve to make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable with the right type of valve. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/09/2014, at 2:19 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, > I removed the arm from gamma along with the valve and supporting stuff. Turns out that package is chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! I have to admit, it was a bad idea to mount the valve inside the ballast tank area. A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging the windows. As part of my renovation, I am mounting the arm and valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank along with a thruster package. The entire assembly including thrusters will be jettisoning. > Dan Lance gave me a video to watch called The dry divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That little arm is quite impressive. I would like to see the plans for it. I did not realize it actually used an actual Q ball. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 19:24:36 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:24:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1411341876.96967.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I agree, except you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm. You would have total range from side to side but not up and down. I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator worked that thing. They were picking up items on the fly! Hank------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 PM Hank, I investigated the idea of modifying a large ball valve to make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable with the right type of valve. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/09/2014, at 2:19 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, > I removed the arm from gamma along with the valve and supporting stuff.? Turns out that package is chunky, 108 lbs.? Mystery solved!? I have to admit, it was a bad idea to mount the valve inside the ballast tank area.? A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging the windows.? As part of my renovation, I am mounting the arm and valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank along with a thruster package.? The entire assembly including thrusters will be jettisoning. > Dan Lance gave me a video to watch called The dry divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action.? That little arm is quite impressive.? I would like to see the plans for it.? I did not realize it actually used an actual Q ball. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 19:28:12 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 19:28:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <1411341876.96967.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411341876.96967.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <745CA74D-E060-46FA-ABBF-2CC8F4DC4F8D@AOL.com> Yup. Think of it as having a sort of long set of pliers in your hand. It's a very immediate and tactile sensation. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 7:24 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I agree, except you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm. You would have total range from side to side but not up and down. I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator worked that thing. They were picking up items on the fly! > Hank------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 PM > > Hank, > I > investigated the idea of modifying a large ball valve > to make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable > with the > right type of valve. > Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > >> On 22/09/2014, > at 2:19 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Vance, >> I removed the arm from gamma along with > the valve and supporting stuff. Turns out that package is > chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! I have to admit, it was > a bad idea to mount the valve inside the ballast tank > area. A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging the > windows. As part of my renovation, I am mounting the arm > and valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank > along with a thruster package. The entire assembly > including thrusters will be jettisoning. >> Dan Lance gave me a video to watch called > The dry divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That > little arm is quite impressive. I would like to see the > plans for it. I did not realize it actually used an actual > Q ball. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 19:34:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:34:22 +0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <1411341876.96967.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411341876.96967.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <046329D0-6105-4862-970C-2E46CC878C00@yahoo.com> Hank from memory I was going to mount the ball the other way around & push the Q through the spindle shaft to it give more range. The beauty of it was you already had a ball & matching seals inside a housing. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/09/2014, at 6:24 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I agree, except you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm. You would have total range from side to side but not up and down. I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator worked that thing. They were picking up items on the fly! > Hank------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 PM > > Hank, > I > investigated the idea of modifying a large ball valve > to make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable > with the > right type of valve. > Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > >> On 22/09/2014, > at 2:19 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Vance, >> I removed the arm from gamma along with > the valve and supporting stuff. Turns out that package is > chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! I have to admit, it was > a bad idea to mount the valve inside the ballast tank > area. A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging the > windows. As part of my renovation, I am mounting the arm > and valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank > along with a thruster package. The entire assembly > including thrusters will be jettisoning. >> Dan Lance gave me a video to watch called > The dry divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That > little arm is quite impressive. I would like to see the > plans for it. I did not realize it actually used an actual > Q ball. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 19:50:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:50:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <046329D0-6105-4862-970C-2E46CC878C00@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411343410.92867.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, How about digging up those plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way there already. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:34 PM Hank from memory I was going to mount the ball the other way around & push the Q through the spindle shaft to it give more range. The beauty of it was you already had a ball & matching seals inside a housing. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/09/2014, at 6:24 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > I agree, except you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm.? You would have total range from side to side but not up and down.? I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator worked that thing.? They were picking up items on the fly! > Hank------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 PM > > Hank, > I > investigated the idea of modifying a large ball valve > to make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable > with the > right type of valve. > Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > >> On 22/09/2014, > at 2:19 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Vance, >> I removed the arm from gamma along with > the valve and supporting stuff.? Turns out that package is > chunky, 108 lbs.? Mystery solved!? I have to admit, it was > a bad idea to mount the valve inside the ballast tank > area.? A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging the > windows.? As part of my renovation, I am mounting the arm > and valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank > along with a thruster package.? The entire assembly > including thrusters will be jettisoning. >> Dan Lance gave me a video to watch called > The dry divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action.? That > little arm is quite impressive.? I would like to see the > plans for it.? I did not realize it actually used an actual > Q ball. >> Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 20:01:19 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 20:01:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <1411343410.92867.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411343410.92867.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1EADC142-040E-445C-AFFA-FE6AF3720996@AOL.com> That sounds good. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, > How about digging up those plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way there already. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:34 PM > > Hank > from memory I was going to mount the ball the > other way around > & push the Q through > the spindle shaft to it give more range. > The beauty of it was you already had a ball > & matching seals inside a housing. > Alan > > Sent from > my iPad > >> On 22/09/2014, > at 6:24 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> >> Alan, >> I agree, except > you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm. > You would have total range from side to side but not up and > down. I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator > worked that thing. They were picking up items on the > fly! > Hank------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 > PM >> >> Hank, >> I >> investigated the > idea of modifying a large ball valve >> to > make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable >> with the >> right type > of valve. >> Alan >> >> Sent from >> my iPad >> >>> On > 22/09/2014, >> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> Vance, >>> I > removed the arm from gamma along with > the valve and supporting stuff. Turns out that package > is >> chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! > I have to admit, it was >> a bad idea to > mount the valve inside the ballast tank > area. A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging > the >> windows. As part of my > renovation, I am mounting the arm >> and > valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >> along with a thruster package. The > entire assembly >> including thrusters > will be jettisoning. >>> Dan Lance gave > me a video to watch called >> The dry > divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That >> little arm is quite impressive. I would > like to see the >> plans for it. I did > not realize it actually used an actual > Q ball. >>> Hank > _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 20:15:10 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 20:15:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <1EADC142-040E-445C-AFFA-FE6AF3720996@AOL.com> References: <1411343410.92867.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1EADC142-040E-445C-AFFA-FE6AF3720996@AOL.com> Message-ID: <6303F044-D2EF-4839-9393-ECE2BC422B83@AOL.com> One issue to keep in mind is that the socket is 316L ss and both the receiver and retainer must be radius machined to take the ball. And not just machined, but polished. Proper function is absolutely dependent on the quality of that surface. It takes a master machinist or a properly programmed CNC machine to get that right. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That sounds good. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 21, 2014, at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, >> How about digging up those plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way there already. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:34 PM >> >> Hank >> from memory I was going to mount the ball the >> other way around >> & push the Q through >> the spindle shaft to it give more range. >> The beauty of it was you already had a ball >> & matching seals inside a housing. >> Alan >> >> Sent from >> my iPad >> >>> On 22/09/2014, >> at 6:24 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alan, >>> I agree, except >> you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm. >> You would have total range from side to side but not up and >> down. I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator >> worked that thing. They were picking up items on the >> fly! >> Hank------------------------------------------- >>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: >> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 >> PM >>> >>> Hank, >>> I >>> investigated the >> idea of modifying a large ball valve >>> to >> make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable >>> with the >>> right type >> of valve. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from >>> my iPad >>> >>>> On >> 22/09/2014, >>> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Vance, >>>> I >> removed the arm from gamma along with >> the valve and supporting stuff. Turns out that package >> is >>> chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! >> I have to admit, it was >>> a bad idea to >> mount the valve inside the ballast tank >> area. A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging >> the >>> windows. As part of my >> renovation, I am mounting the arm >>> and >> valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >>> along with a thruster package. The >> entire assembly >>> including thrusters >> will be jettisoning. >>>> Dan Lance gave >> me a video to watch called >>> The dry >> divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That >>> little arm is quite impressive. I would >> like to see the >>> plans for it. I did >> not realize it actually used an actual >> Q ball. >>>> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 20:39:17 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:39:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <6303F044-D2EF-4839-9393-ECE2BC422B83@AOL.com> Message-ID: <1411346357.28001.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, I have a solution for that, since I am missing the outer retainer. I can make a socket that is roughly the right size and use the Q ball as a mold and fill the void with polyurethane. The inner socket can be polished in place. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/21/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 8:15 PM One issue to keep in mind is that the socket is 316L ss and both the receiver and retainer must be radius machined to take the ball. And not just machined, but polished. Proper function is absolutely dependent on the quality of that surface. It takes a master machinist or a properly programmed CNC machine to get that right. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That sounds good. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 21, 2014, at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, >> How about digging up those plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way there already. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:34 PM >> >> Hank >> from memory I was going to mount the ball the >> other way around >> & push the Q through >> the spindle shaft to it give more range. >> The beauty of it was you already had a ball >> & matching seals inside a housing. >> Alan >> >> Sent from >> my iPad >> >>> On 22/09/2014, >> at 6:24 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alan, >>> I agree, except >> you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm. >> You would have total range from side to side but not up and >> down.? I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator >> worked that thing.? They were picking up items on the >> fly! >> Hank------------------------------------------- >>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: >> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 >> PM >>> >>> Hank, >>> I >>> investigated the >> idea of modifying a large ball valve >>> to >> make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable >>> with the >>> right type >> of valve. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from >>> my iPad >>> >>>> On >> 22/09/2014, >>> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Vance, >>>> I >> removed the arm from gamma along with >> the valve and supporting stuff.? Turns out that package >> is >>> chunky, 108 lbs.? Mystery solved! >> I have to admit, it was >>> a bad idea to >> mount the valve inside the ballast tank >> area.? A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging >> the >>> windows.? As part of my >> renovation, I am mounting the arm >>> and >> valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >>> along with a thruster package.? The >> entire assembly >>> including thrusters >> will be jettisoning. >>>> Dan Lance gave >> me a video to watch called >>> The dry >> divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action.? That >>> little arm is quite impressive.? I would >> like to see the >>> plans for it.? I did >> not realize it actually used an actual >> Q ball. >>>> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 21:05:47 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 18:05:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Message-ID: <20140921180547.8BD59B7D@m0048136.ppops.net> You can buy the set up for that for a lathe, both to make a ball and a socket. Maybe make the ball out of bronze. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:39:17 -0700 Vance, I have a solution for that, since I am missing the outer retainer. I can make a socket that is roughly the right size and use the Q ball as a mold and fill the void with polyurethane. The inner socket can be polished in place. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/21/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 8:15 PM One issue to keep in mind is that the socket is 316L ss and both the receiver and retainer must be radius machined to take the ball. And not just machined, but polished. Proper function is absolutely dependent on the quality of that surface. It takes a master machinist or a properly programmed CNC machine to get that right. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That sounds good. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 21, 2014, at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, >> How about digging up those plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way there already. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:34 PM >> >> Hank >> from memory I was going to mount the ball the >> other way around >> & push the Q through >> the spindle shaft to it give more range. >> The beauty of it was you already had a ball >> & matching seals inside a housing. >> Alan >> >> Sent from >> my iPad >> >>> On 22/09/2014, >> at 6:24 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alan, >>> I agree, except >> you would not have the full range of a true Q ball arm. >> You would have total range from side to side but not up and >> down.? I was genuinely amazed at how well the operator >> worked that thing.? They were picking up items on the >> fly! >> Hank------------------------------------------- >>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: >> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 7:11 >> PM >>> >>> Hank, >>> I >>> investigated the >> idea of modifying a large ball valve >>> to >> make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed doable >>> with the >>> right type >> of valve. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from >>> my iPad >>> >>>> On >> 22/09/2014, >>> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Vance, >>>> I >> removed the arm from gamma along with >> the valve and supporting stuff.? Turns out that package >> is >>> chunky, 108 lbs.? Mystery solved! >> I have to admit, it was >>> a bad idea to >> mount the valve inside the ballast tank >> area.? A single drop of oil that leaks ends up fogging >> the >>> windows.? As part of my >> renovation, I am mounting the arm >>> and >> valve to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >>> along with a thruster package.? The >> entire assembly >>> including thrusters >> will be jettisoning. >>>> Dan Lance gave >> me a video to watch called >>> The dry >> divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action.? That >>> little arm is quite impressive.? I would >> like to see the >>> plans for it.? I did >> not realize it actually used an actual >> Q ball. >>>> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 21:15:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 21:15:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <20140921180547.8BD59B7D@m0048136.ppops.net> References: <20140921180547.8BD59B7D@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <68C4CB00-8306-4CBE-991F-8074AA2FB16B@AOL.com> Thanks. I'll look into it. As to bronze balls, well..... Besides. Q balls have worked for forty years. Why change now? Hard to beat a perfect radius for under twenty bucks. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > You can buy the set up for that for a lathe, both to make a ball and a socket. Maybe make the ball out of bronze. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:39:17 -0700 > > > Vance, > I have a solution for that, since I am missing the outer retainer. I can make a socket that is roughly the right size and use the Q ball as a mold and fill the void with polyurethane. The inner socket can be polished in place. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/21/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 8:15 PM > > One issue to keep in mind > is that the socket is 316L ss and both the receiver and > retainer must be radius machined to take the ball. And not > just machined, but polished. Proper function is absolutely > dependent on the quality of that surface. It takes a master > machinist or a properly programmed CNC machine to get that > right. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Vance Bradley > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> That > sounds good. >> Vance > >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Sep 21, 2014, > at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Vance, >>> How about digging up those > plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way > there already. > Hank-------------------------------------------- >>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>> To: "Personal Submersibles > General Discussion" >>> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, > 7:34 PM > Hank >>> from memory I was going to > mount the ball the >>> other way > around >>> & push the Q through >>> the spindle shaft to it give more > range. >>> The beauty of it was you > already had a ball >>> & matching > seals inside a housing. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from >>> my iPad >>> >>>> On 22/09/2014, >>> at 6:24 am, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: > > Alan, >>>> I agree, except >>> you would not have the full range of a > true Q ball arm. >>> You would have > total range from side to side but not up and >>> down. I was genuinely amazed at how > well the operator >>> worked that > thing. They were picking up items on the >>> fly! > Hank------------------------------------------- >>>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: > >>>> Subject: >>> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>>> To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>>> Received: Sunday, September 21, > 2014, 7:11 >>> PM > Hank, >>>> I >>>> investigated the >>> idea of modifying a large ball > valve >>>> to >>> make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed > doable >>>> with the >>>> right type >>> of valve. > Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from >>>> my iPad >>>> > On >>> 22/09/2014, >>>> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Vance, >>>>> I > removed the arm from gamma along with >>> the valve and supporting stuff. > Turns out that package >>> is >>>> chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! > >>> I have to admit, it was >>>> a bad idea to >>> mount the valve inside the ballast > tank >>> area. A single drop of oil > that leaks ends up fogging >>> the >>>> windows. As part of my >>> renovation, I am mounting the arm >>>> and >>> valve > to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >>>> along with a thruster package. > The >>> entire assembly >>>> including thrusters >>> will be jettisoning. >>>>> Dan Lance gave >>> me a video to watch called >>>> The dry > divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That >>>> little arm is quite impressive. > I would >>> like to see the >>>> plans for it. I did >>> not realize it actually used an > actual >>> Q ball. >>>>> Hank > _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 22:22:02 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 19:22:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Message-ID: <20140921192202.8F2A0C22@m0005296.ppops.net> Has more than one sub had a cue ball arm? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 21:15:28 -0400 Thanks. I'll look into it. As to bronze balls, well..... Besides. Q balls have worked for forty years. Why change now? Hard to beat a perfect radius for under twenty bucks. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > You can buy the set up for that for a lathe, both to make a ball and a socket. Maybe make the ball out of bronze. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:39:17 -0700 > > > Vance, > I have a solution for that, since I am missing the outer retainer. I can make a socket that is roughly the right size and use the Q ball as a mold and fill the void with polyurethane. The inner socket can be polished in place. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/21/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 8:15 PM > > One issue to keep in mind > is that the socket is 316L ss and both the receiver and > retainer must be radius machined to take the ball. And not > just machined, but polished. Proper function is absolutely > dependent on the quality of that surface. It takes a master > machinist or a properly programmed CNC machine to get that > right. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Vance Bradley > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> That > sounds good. >> Vance > >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Sep 21, 2014, > at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Vance, >>> How about digging up those > plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way > there already. > Hank-------------------------------------------- >>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>> To: "Personal Submersibles > General Discussion" >>> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, > 7:34 PM > Hank >>> from memory I was going to > mount the ball the >>> other way > around >>> & push the Q through >>> the spindle shaft to it give more > range. >>> The beauty of it was you > already had a ball >>> & matching > seals inside a housing. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from >>> my iPad >>> >>>> On 22/09/2014, >>> at 6:24 am, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: > > Alan, >>>> I agree, except >>> you would not have the full range of a > true Q ball arm. >>> You would have > total range from side to side but not up and >>> down. I was genuinely amazed at how > well the operator >>> worked that > thing. They were picking up items on the >>> fly! > Hank------------------------------------------- >>>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: > >>>> Subject: >>> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>>> To: > "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>>> Received: Sunday, September 21, > 2014, 7:11 >>> PM > Hank, >>>> I >>>> investigated the >>> idea of modifying a large ball > valve >>>> to >>> make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed > doable >>>> with the >>>> right type >>> of valve. > Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from >>>> my iPad >>>> > On >>> 22/09/2014, >>>> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Vance, >>>>> I > removed the arm from gamma along with >>> the valve and supporting stuff. > Turns out that package >>> is >>>> chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! > >>> I have to admit, it was >>>> a bad idea to >>> mount the valve inside the ballast > tank >>> area. A single drop of oil > that leaks ends up fogging >>> the >>>> windows. As part of my >>> renovation, I am mounting the arm >>>> and >>> valve > to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >>>> along with a thruster package. > The >>> entire assembly >>>> including thrusters >>> will be jettisoning. >>>>> Dan Lance gave >>> me a video to watch called >>>> The dry > divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That >>>> little arm is quite impressive. > I would >>> like to see the >>>> plans for it. I did >>> not realize it actually used an > actual >>> Q ball. >>>>> Hank > _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing > list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 21 22:33:37 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 22:33:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm In-Reply-To: <20140921192202.8F2A0C22@m0005296.ppops.net> References: <20140921192202.8F2A0C22@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: <77D77FD3-8550-491E-9DF2-D21973222865@AOL.com> It grew from Mart Toggweiler's camera housing and was installed on Submaray and all four Nektons. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:22 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Has more than one sub had a cue ball arm? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 21:15:28 -0400 > > Thanks. I'll look into it. As to bronze balls, well..... Besides. Q balls have worked for forty years. Why change now? Hard to beat a perfect radius for under twenty bucks. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 21, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> You can buy the set up for that for a lathe, both to make a ball and a socket. Maybe make the ball out of bronze. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:39:17 -0700 >> >> >> Vance, >> I have a solution for that, since I am missing the outer retainer. I can make a socket that is roughly the right size and use the Q ball as a mold and fill the void with polyurethane. The inner socket can be polished in place. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/21/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 8:15 PM >> >> One issue to keep in mind >> is that the socket is 316L ss and both the receiver and >> retainer must be radius machined to take the ball. And not >> just machined, but polished. Proper function is absolutely >> dependent on the quality of that surface. It takes a master >> machinist or a properly programmed CNC machine to get that >> right. >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Sep 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Vance Bradley >> via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> That >> sounds good. >>> Vance >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Sep 21, 2014, >> at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> Vance, >>>> How about digging up those >> plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way >> there already. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >>>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>>> To: "Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion" >>>> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, >> 7:34 PM >> Hank >>>> from memory I was going to >> mount the ball the >>>> other way >> around >>>> & push the Q through >>>> the spindle shaft to it give more >> range. >>>> The beauty of it was you >> already had a ball >>>> & matching >> seals inside a housing. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from >>>> my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 22/09/2014, >>>> at 6:24 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >> >> Alan, >>>>> I agree, except >>>> you would not have the full range of a >> true Q ball arm. >>>> You would have >> total range from side to side but not up and >>>> down. I was genuinely amazed at how >> well the operator >>>> worked that >> thing. They were picking up items on the >>>> fly! >> Hank------------------------------------------- >>>>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> Subject: >>>> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>>>> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>>>> Received: Sunday, September 21, >> 2014, 7:11 >>>> PM >> Hank, >>>>> I >>>>> investigated the >>>> idea of modifying a large ball >> valve >>>>> to >>>> make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed >> doable >>>>> with the >>>>> right type >>>> of valve. >> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from >>>>> my iPad >> On >>>> 22/09/2014, >>>>> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via >>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Vance, >>>>>> I >> removed the arm from gamma along with >>>> the valve and supporting stuff. >> Turns out that package >>>> is >>>>> chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! >> >>>> I have to admit, it was >>>>> a bad idea to >>>> mount the valve inside the ballast >> tank >>>> area. A single drop of oil >> that leaks ends up fogging >>>> the >>>>> windows. As part of my >>>> renovation, I am mounting the arm >>>>> and >>>> valve >> to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >>>>> along with a thruster package. >> The >>>> entire assembly >>>>> including thrusters >>>> will be jettisoning. >>>>>> Dan Lance gave >>>> me a video to watch called >>>>> The dry >> divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That >>>>> little arm is quite impressive. >> I would >>>> like to see the >>>>> plans for it. I did >>>> not realize it actually used an >> actual >>>> Q ball. >>>>>> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 22 01:45:46 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 22:45:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Message-ID: <20140921224546.8BD04C23@m0005309.ppops.net> No sense in messing up a good thing ! --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 22:33:37 -0400 It grew from Mart Toggweiler's camera housing and was installed on Submaray and all four Nektons. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:22 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Has more than one sub had a cue ball arm? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 21:15:28 -0400 > > Thanks. I'll look into it. As to bronze balls, well..... Besides. Q balls have worked for forty years. Why change now? Hard to beat a perfect radius for under twenty bucks. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 21, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> You can buy the set up for that for a lathe, both to make a ball and a socket. Maybe make the ball out of bronze. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:39:17 -0700 >> >> >> Vance, >> I have a solution for that, since I am missing the outer retainer. I can make a socket that is roughly the right size and use the Q ball as a mold and fill the void with polyurethane. The inner socket can be polished in place. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Sun, 9/21/14, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, 8:15 PM >> >> One issue to keep in mind >> is that the socket is 316L ss and both the receiver and >> retainer must be radius machined to take the ball. And not >> just machined, but polished. Proper function is absolutely >> dependent on the quality of that surface. It takes a master >> machinist or a properly programmed CNC machine to get that >> right. >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Sep 21, 2014, at 8:01 PM, Vance Bradley >> via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> That >> sounds good. >>> Vance >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Sep 21, 2014, >> at 7:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> Vance, >>>> How about digging up those >> plans and I will put it together, since Gamma is half way >> there already. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >>>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>>> To: "Personal Submersibles >> General Discussion" >>>> Received: Sunday, September 21, 2014, >> 7:34 PM >> Hank >>>> from memory I was going to >> mount the ball the >>>> other way >> around >>>> & push the Q through >>>> the spindle shaft to it give more >> range. >>>> The beauty of it was you >> already had a ball >>>> & matching >> seals inside a housing. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from >>>> my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 22/09/2014, >>>> at 6:24 am, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >> >> Alan, >>>>> I agree, except >>>> you would not have the full range of a >> true Q ball arm. >>>> You would have >> total range from side to side but not up and >>>> down. I was genuinely amazed at how >> well the operator >>>> worked that >> thing. They were picking up items on the >>>> fly! >> Hank------------------------------------------- >>>>> On Sun, 9/21/14, Alan via >>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> Subject: >>>> Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma's arm >>>>> To: >> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>>>> Received: Sunday, September 21, >> 2014, 7:11 >>>> PM >> Hank, >>>>> I >>>>> investigated the >>>> idea of modifying a large ball >> valve >>>>> to >>>> make a Q ball manipulator. It seemed >> doable >>>>> with the >>>>> right type >>>> of valve. >> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from >>>>> my iPad >> On >>>> 22/09/2014, >>>>> at 2:19 am, hank pronk via >>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Vance, >>>>>> I >> removed the arm from gamma along with >>>> the valve and supporting stuff. >> Turns out that package >>>> is >>>>> chunky, 108 lbs. Mystery solved! >> >>>> I have to admit, it was >>>>> a bad idea to >>>> mount the valve inside the ballast >> tank >>>> area. A single drop of oil >> that leaks ends up fogging >>>> the >>>>> windows. As part of my >>>> renovation, I am mounting the arm >>>>> and >>>> valve >> to a drop mechanism under the front ballast tank >>>>> along with a thruster package. >> The >>>> entire assembly >>>>> including thrusters >>>> will be jettisoning. >>>>>> Dan Lance gave >>>> me a video to watch called >>>>> The dry >> divers, it shows the Q Ball arm in action. That >>>>> little arm is quite impressive. >> I would >>>> like to see the >>>>> plans for it. I did >>>> not realize it actually used an >> actual >>>> Q ball. >>>>>> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing >> list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 22 01:55:24 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 22:55:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Conning tower Message-ID: <20140921225524.8BD04C02@m0005309.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 23 08:16:26 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:16:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Conning tower In-Reply-To: <20140921225524.8BD04C02@m0005309.ppops.net> References: <20140921225524.8BD04C02@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, Whats the end cap for on top? Is that just to hold the shape while you weld? Or is it permenant? When I did mine, which is about the same dimensions as yours, I made a circular disk from 6mm plate and welded it into the bottom of the tower. Then I could roll it around for easier positions. I cut the plate out later on. I also made some flat disks from thick gauge steel and cramped them to each viewport, to soak up some of the heat. Then I had loads of cups of tea in between runs. No distortion. Regards James On 22 September 2014 06:55, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm having welding concerns when it comes to my conning tower. I have an > approximate 24" diameter conning tower by about 20" tall by 1/4" thick, I > want to put 8 viewports all the way around (6" disks with appropriate > flanges) ,I'm planning on welding to the reinforcing ring on the bottom > and an end cap on the top, but even with those on there isn't the heat of > welding all those flanges going to warp the crap out of the whole area > ? Can any welders weigh in on my concerns, Thanks. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 23 10:09:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:09:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Conning tower Message-ID: <20140923070959.8F28399C@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 27 08:17:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 00:17:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Message-ID: Alec, what size motors do you have on Snoopy? I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? Are you happy with the speed? I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with an easy solution. I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of continual operation are in question. Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 27 23:55:21 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 23:55:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alan, On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. Best, Alec On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > what size motors do you have on Snoopy? > I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in > Florida. > Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? > Are you happy with the speed? > I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with > an easy solution. > I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of > advantages > over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are > both going > to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't > looking easy. > Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are > lightweight & made > mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several > hours of > continual operation are in question. > Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers > are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 05:40:04 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 22:40:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> Thanks Alec that was helpful. Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change from forward to reverse. Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. > > Best, > > Alec > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, >> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >> Are you happy with the speed? >> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >> an easy solution. >> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >> continual operation are in question. >> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 07:38:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:38:44 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, I am happy with the rotating thruster configuration on the Nordicsub boats. Indeed you can double the power and you have a backup when the stern drive fails. When manoeuvring over the bottom , the thrusters are pointing about 45 deg. Downward. As we dive the boat a little positive buoyant, you can push the sub both forward and downward. 10 Kg thrust per Ton is a good rule of thumb value.. the Rotorque thrusters are still going strong after 100 op. hours and non maintenance. Regards, Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 28 september 2014 11:40 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Thanks Alec that was helpful. Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change from forward to reverse. Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? Alan Sent from my iPad On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. Best, Alec On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, what size motors do you have on Snoopy? I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? Are you happy with the speed? I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with an easy solution. I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of continual operation are in question. Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 08:46:38 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 08:46:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Standard operation is to lock the side thrusters horizontally when on the surface and vertically when diving. On the surface they're very useful for things like maneuvering around a dock or getting on or off the trailer. They provide zero-radius turning, which a single stern thruster never can. The ramp down, ramp up when switching from forward to reverse or vice-versa is a feature that is built into the speed controllers to prevent arcing on the motor commutator. From the driver's perspective, you can just slam the motors from full power in one direction to full power in the opposite direction, and nothing will happen to the motors if your speed controller has that functionality. The transition despite being smooth is really quick, maybe just a couple of seconds. I dive Snoopy slightly positive because that way the wash from the props is directed upwards and doesn't muck up visibility. I found it a real disadvantage of the original design that the side thrusters tied up your hands if you are holding them all the time, hence the indexing plates to lock them in position. My new sub, however, uses four fixed thrusters. That arrangement gives you more degrees of freedom and has no moving parts. Cheers, Alec On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 5:40 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Alec that was helpful. > Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked > vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive > buoyancy. > I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric > motors, so my > hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor > functions. > I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have > double the power travelling > horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors > down to change > from forward to reverse. > Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually > of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not > exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What > you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern > thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, > locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three > batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters > well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that > a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not > enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, > but only on subs with battery pods. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, >> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in >> Florida. >> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >> Are you happy with the speed? >> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up >> with >> an easy solution. >> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of >> advantages >> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are >> both going >> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't >> looking easy. >> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are >> lightweight & made >> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several >> hours of >> continual operation are in question. >> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers >> are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 09:14:22 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 06:14:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411910062.66781.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, In an effort to keep things simple and cost under control, I would agree with Alec. Fixed motors are much less complicated, and given the low cost of motors, it is cheaper to install extra motors rather than fabricate rotating mechanisms. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/28/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, September 28, 2014, 5:40 AM Thanks Alec that was helpful.Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters lockedvertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy.I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my?hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions.I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travellinghorizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change?from forward to reverse.Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone?Alan Sent from my iPad On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. Best, Alec? On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, what size motors do you have on Snoopy? I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? Are you happy with the speed? I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with an easy solution. I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of continual operation are in question. Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 09:33:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 06:33:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign Message-ID: <1411911181.97267.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am back to my launch cart because lake levels are dropping. I am making big design changes to make it more user friendly and to allow super shallow launches. First I am changing the axel arrangement so the cart steers. The biggest change is ballast tanks. I am adding two ballast tanks above the wheels. The idea is to back the cart and sub into the water with ballast tanks full of air. The cart and sub should float away in 36 inches of water, or less. Once the sub and cart have floated into deeper water, I simply open two valves to let air out of the cart ballast tanks until the sub is free to float away. I simply throw an anchor out to keep the cart in that spot until I return. When I return the cart will be pointing up wind making it easy to drive into. I raise the cart with air and use the sub to drive it to shore or boat ramp. I am not working on my support boat because I have no support,lol. There is no need for a large boat because I am a one man sub operation. Gamma has such good range on the surface, I can simply cruise on the surface to my dive sites. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 13:03:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:03:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Thanks Alec that was helpful. Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change from forward to reverse. Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? Alan Sent from my iPad On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, > > >On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. > > >Best, > >Alec > > >On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Alec, >>what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>Are you happy with the speed? >>I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>an easy solution. >>I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>continual operation are in question. >>Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>Alan >> >> >> >>Sent from my iPad >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 17:39:25 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:39:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. > > > I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. > > I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. > > I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. > > I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. > > Cliff > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > Thanks Alec that was helpful. > Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked > vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. > I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my > hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. > I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling > horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change > from forward to reverse. > Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, >> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >> Are you happy with the speed? >> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >> an easy solution. >> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >> continual operation are in question. >> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 17:50:59 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:50:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign In-Reply-To: <1411911181.97267.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411911181.97267.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801cfdb66$4a75e060$df61a120$@telus.net> Hank, Further thoughts on launching as I want to be able to launch my sub directly from the trailer: You may recall my current trailer also needs to be disconnected from the truck and allowed to fully submerge to float the sub off and on. This trailer requires about 55 inches of water to launch and recover the submarine. With respect to a new purpose built trailer (to replace my current utility trailer), I am planning on a low slung boat trailer with a 5 foot vertical stanchion welded onto the tongue between the coupler and the boat winch. This would allow the operator to detach the electrical plug from the truck and clip it to the top of the stanchion, thus keeping it dry out of the water while the trailer is detached from the truck and rolled fully submerged into the water. Another mod that I have planned is to weld two straight c-channels from the front of the trailer frame back to the front of the wheel fenders such that they hang down from the frame in front of the wheels below the wheels' equator to act as skid plates. This way if the launch ramp ends at a drop off the wheels will fall off the ramp but the c-channels will then support the weight of the trailer as it slides further into the deep water. As well, I think that the bottom of the c-channels would benefit from having sacrificial oak or plastic strips on the bottom to take the damage caused by dragging the trailer up and over the drop off. I currently have three single-wheeled jacks on the tongue to provide sufficient floatation of the tongue on the substrate while the trailer is disconnected from the truck. A tongue jack with a double ended ski like plate may also be a good idea. While launching my sub from my current trailer I found that the buoyancy of the three tires keeps the unit sufficiently light on the bottom such that it doesn't get stuck in the muck. The bottom substrate must still be reasonably solid, but with the addition of the c-channel skid plates providing further floatation on the substrate it should work reasonably well in most cases. I am also considering adding the same c-channel skid plates behind the wheels to the rear trailer frame to give the trailer some tendency to lift itself onto the top of the substrate if the substrate is softer and the wheels want to sink into the mud while it is being backed into the water. I found that submerging the trailer and recovering it with tow straps works quite well. Since my submarine is operated by divers, it is no problem for the divers to set an anchor out into deep water, run a line from the back of the trailer through a pulley attached to the anchor and then back to the truck. As the truck pulls forward the disconnected trailer is pulled back to the anchor into the deep water while a diver helps keep it on track. Obviously this would not be an option for your one dry-man operation. I have bearing buddies on my trailer now, and the new boat trailer will be aluminum or galvanized steel so that salt water launches are not a problem. Just my thoughts, perhaps you may find them useful. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-28-14 6:33 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign I am back to my launch cart because lake levels are dropping. I am making big design changes to make it more user friendly and to allow super shallow launches. First I am changing the axel arrangement so the cart steers. The biggest change is ballast tanks. I am adding two ballast tanks above the wheels. The idea is to back the cart and sub into the water with ballast tanks full of air. The cart and sub should float away in 36 inches of water, or less. Once the sub and cart have floated into deeper water, I simply open two valves to let air out of the cart ballast tanks until the sub is free to float away. I simply throw an anchor out to keep the cart in that spot until I return. When I return the cart will be pointing up wind making it easy to drive into. I raise the cart with air and use the sub to drive it to shore or boat ramp. I am not working on my support boat because I have no support,lol. There is no need for a large boat because I am a one man sub operation. Gamma has such good range on the surface, I can simply cruise on the surface to my dive sites. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 18:10:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:10:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign In-Reply-To: <000801cfdb66$4a75e060$df61a120$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1411942215.133.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim, Your idea for a catch system if the trailer falls off the end of a ramp is brilliant. We have some nasty drops here, luckily I use tandem trailers and usually it is deep enough by then, well in high water anyways. You could put ballast tanks on your trailer and do the same as I am, except your road trailer would act as your cart. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/28/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Sunday, September 28, 2014, 5:50 PM Hank, Further thoughts on launching as I want to be able to launch my sub directly from the trailer: You may recall my current trailer also needs to be disconnected from the truck and allowed to fully submerge to float the sub off and on.? This trailer requires about 55 inches of water to launch and recover the submarine. With respect to a new purpose built trailer (to replace my current utility trailer), I am planning on a low slung boat trailer with a 5 foot vertical stanchion welded onto the tongue between the coupler and the boat winch. This would allow the operator to detach the electrical plug from the truck and clip it to the top of the stanchion, thus keeping it dry out of the water while the trailer is detached from the truck and rolled fully submerged into the water. Another mod that I have planned is to weld two straight c-channels from the front of the trailer frame back to the front of the wheel fenders such that they hang down from the frame in front of the wheels below the wheels' equator to act as skid plates.? This way if the launch ramp ends at a drop off the wheels will fall? off the ramp but the c-channels will then support the weight of the trailer as it slides further into the deep water.? As well, I think that the bottom of the c-channels would benefit from having sacrificial oak or plastic strips on the bottom to take the damage caused by dragging the trailer up and over the drop off.? I currently have three single-wheeled jacks on the tongue to provide sufficient floatation of the tongue on the substrate while the trailer is disconnected from the truck.? A tongue jack with a double ended ski like plate may also be a good idea. While launching my sub from my current trailer I found that the buoyancy of the three tires keeps the unit sufficiently light on the bottom such that it doesn't get stuck in the muck.? The bottom substrate must still be reasonably solid, but with the addition of the c-channel skid plates providing further floatation on the substrate it should work reasonably well in most cases.? I am also considering adding the same c-channel skid plates behind the wheels to the rear trailer frame to give the trailer some tendency to lift itself onto the top of the substrate if the substrate is softer and the wheels want to sink into the mud while it is being backed into the water.? I found that submerging the trailer and recovering it with tow straps works quite well.? Since my submarine is operated by divers, it is no problem for the divers to set an anchor out into deep water, run a line from the back of the trailer through a pulley attached to the anchor and then back to the truck.? As the truck pulls forward the disconnected trailer is pulled back to the anchor into the deep water while a diver helps keep it on track.? Obviously this would not be an option for your one dry-man operation. I have bearing buddies on my trailer now, and the new boat trailer will be aluminum or galvanized steel so that salt water launches are not a problem. Just my thoughts, perhaps you may find them useful. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: September-28-14 6:33 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign I am back to my launch cart because lake levels are dropping.? I am making big design changes to make it more user friendly and to allow super shallow launches.? First I am changing the axel arrangement so the cart steers. The biggest change is ballast tanks.? I am adding two ballast tanks above the wheels.? The idea is to back the cart and sub into the water with ballast tanks full of air.? The cart and sub should float away in 36 inches of water, or less. Once the sub and cart have floated into deeper water, I simply open two valves to let air out of the cart ballast tanks until the sub is free to float away.? I simply throw an anchor out to keep the cart in that spot until I return.? When I return the cart will be pointing up wind making it easy to drive into.? I raise the cart with air and use the sub to drive it to shore or boat ramp.? I am not working on my support boat because I have no support,lol.? There is no need for a large boat because I am a one man sub operation.? Gamma has such good range on the surface, I can simply cruise on the surface to my dive sites.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 18:27:15 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:27:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> Message-ID: <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. > > >I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. > >I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. > >I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. > >I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. > > >Cliff > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > > >Thanks Alec that was helpful. >Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >from forward to reverse. >Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >Alan > > > > > >Sent from my iPad > >On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Hi Alan, >> >> >>On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >> >> >>Best, >> >>Alec >> >> >>On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>Alec, >>>what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>Are you happy with the speed? >>>I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>an easy solution. >>>I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>continual operation are in question. >>>Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>Alan >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 18:38:44 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:38:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. > > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >> >> >> I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >> >> I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >> >> I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >> >> I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >> >> Cliff >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> Thanks Alec that was helpful. >> Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >> vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >> I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >> hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >> I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >> horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >> from forward to reverse. >> Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alec, >>> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>> Are you happy with the speed? >>> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>> an easy solution. >>> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>> continual operation are in question. >>> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 18:41:01 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:41:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign In-Reply-To: <1411942215.133.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1411942215.133.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <964169B2-959D-4618-BBBA-FCC466743195@AOL.com> Great idea. Florida ramps are notoriously shallow and almost always undercut by currents. Getting back is always harder if a wheel drops over the edge. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:10 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Tim, > Your idea for a catch system if the trailer falls off the end of a ramp is brilliant. We have some nasty drops here, luckily I use tandem trailers and usually it is deep enough by then, well in high water anyways. You could put ballast tanks on your trailer and do the same as I am, except your road trailer would act as your cart. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 9/28/14, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart redesign > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Received: Sunday, September 28, 2014, 5:50 PM > > Hank, > > Further thoughts on launching as I want to be > able to launch my sub directly > from the > trailer: > > You may recall my > current trailer also needs to be disconnected from the > truck and allowed to fully submerge to float > the sub off and on. This > trailer requires > about 55 inches of water to launch and recover the > submarine. > > With respect to a new purpose built trailer (to > replace my current utility > trailer), I am > planning on a low slung boat trailer with a 5 foot > vertical > stanchion welded onto the tongue > between the coupler and the boat winch. > This > would allow the operator to detach the electrical plug from > the truck > and clip it to the top of the > stanchion, thus keeping it dry out of the > water while the trailer is detached from the > truck and rolled fully > submerged into the > water. > > Another mod that I > have planned is to weld two straight c-channels from the > front of the trailer frame back to the front of > the wheel fenders such that > they hang down > from the frame in front of the wheels below the > wheels' > equator to act as skid plates. > This way if the launch ramp ends at a drop > off the wheels will fall off the ramp but the > c-channels will then support > the weight of > the trailer as it slides further into the deep water. > As > well, I think that the bottom of the > c-channels would benefit from having > sacrificial oak or plastic strips on the bottom > to take the damage caused by > dragging the > trailer up and over the drop off. I currently have > three > single-wheeled jacks on the tongue to > provide sufficient floatation of the > tongue > on the substrate while the trailer is disconnected from the > truck. A > tongue jack with a double ended > ski like plate may also be a good idea. > > While launching my sub from my current trailer > I found that the buoyancy of > the three tires > keeps the unit sufficiently light on the bottom such that > it > doesn't get stuck in the muck. The > bottom substrate must still be > reasonably > solid, but with the addition of the c-channel skid plates > providing further floatation on the substrate > it should work reasonably well > in most > cases. I am also considering adding the same c-channel > skid plates > behind the wheels to the rear > trailer frame to give the trailer some > tendency to lift itself onto the top of the > substrate if the substrate is > softer and the > wheels want to sink into the mud while it is being backed > into the water. I found that submerging the > trailer and recovering it with > tow straps > works quite well. > > Since > my submarine is operated by divers, it is no problem for the > divers to > set an anchor out into deep water, > run a line from the back of the trailer > through a pulley attached to the anchor and > then back to the truck. As the > truck pulls > forward the disconnected trailer is pulled back to the > anchor > into the deep water while a diver > helps keep it on track. Obviously this > would not be an option for your one dry-man > operation. > > I have bearing > buddies on my trailer now, and the new boat trailer will > be > aluminum or galvanized steel so that salt > water launches are not a problem. > > Just my thoughts, perhaps you may find them > useful. > > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: September-28-14 > 6:33 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] launch cart > redesign > > I am back to my > launch cart because lake levels are dropping. I am > making > big design changes to make it more > user friendly and to allow super shallow > launches. First I am changing the axel > arrangement so the cart steers. The > biggest > change is ballast tanks. I am adding two ballast tanks > above the > wheels. The idea is to back the > cart and sub into the water with ballast > tanks full of air. The cart and sub should > float away in 36 inches of > water, or less. > Once the sub and cart have floated into deeper water, I > simply open two valves to let air out of the > cart ballast tanks until the > sub is free to > float away. I simply throw an anchor out to keep the cart > in > that spot until I return. When I return > the cart will be pointing up wind > making it > easy to drive into. I raise the cart with air and use the > sub to > drive it to shore or boat ramp. > > I am not working on my support > boat because I have no support,lol. There is > no need for a large boat because I am a one man > sub operation. Gamma has > such good range > on the surface, I can simply cruise on the surface to my > dive sites. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 18:55:29 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:55:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> Message-ID: <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. > > >Cliff > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > >________________________________ > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > > >Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >Vance > >Sent from my iPhone > > > > >On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >> >> >>I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >> >>I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >> >>I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >> >>I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> >> >>Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>from forward to reverse. >>Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>Alan >> >> >> >> >> >>Sent from my iPad >> >>On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Hi Alan, >>> >>> >>>On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>> >>> >>>Best, >>> >>>Alec >>> >>> >>>On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>Alec, >>>>what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>Are you happy with the speed? >>>>I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>an easy solution. >>>>I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>continual operation are in question. >>>>Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Sent from my iPad >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 19:08:06 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:08:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. > > That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>> >>> >>> I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>> >>> I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>> >>> I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>> >>> I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>> Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>> vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>> I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>> hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>> I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>> horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>> from forward to reverse. >>> Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Alec, >>>> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>> Are you happy with the speed? >>>> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>> an easy solution. >>>> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>> continual operation are in question. >>>> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 19:18:53 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:18:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sent from my iPad > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. >> >> That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> Redus Engineering >>> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >>> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >>> >>> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >>> Vance >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>>> >>>> >>>> I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>>> >>>> I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>>> >>>> I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>>> >>>> I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>>> >>>> Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>>> Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>>> vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>>> I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>>> hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>>> I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>>> horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>>> from forward to reverse. >>>> Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>> >>>>> On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Alec, >>>>> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>> Are you happy with the speed? >>>>> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>> an easy solution. >>>>> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>> continual operation are in question. >>>>> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 19:28:41 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:28:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Vance, if you will send me your email off list. I will send you a set of drawings as PDFs files or if you have Autocad, I will send as dwg. The kort nozzle drawing has the id profile listed as a table so if you have a lathe you should be able to turn the plug if the lathe can handle the diameter. My email is cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net. Cliff Sent from my iPad > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. >> >> That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> Redus Engineering >>> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >>> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >>> >>> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >>> Vance >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>>> >>>> >>>> I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>>> >>>> I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>>> >>>> I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>>> >>>> I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>>> >>>> Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>>> Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>>> vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>>> I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>>> hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>>> I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>>> horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>>> from forward to reverse. >>>> Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>> >>>>> On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Alec, >>>>> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>> Are you happy with the speed? >>>>> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>> an easy solution. >>>>> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>> continual operation are in question. >>>>> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 20:44:28 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:44:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411951468.70843.YahooMailNeo@web120901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Emile, Alec, Cliff & Hank. That was very helpful; I am now thinking of having fixed vertical thrusters & a third central rear thruster for redundancy. Cliff, I didn't get to Robo Marine. They were slow in replying to my request for a visit & said I wouldn't see any thrusters in assembly as they made to order & were just a fledgling company. Also as you say, they were a bit expensive. (Our price on model 1000 with power cable and motor driver included (user defined cable length, with 0.5 meter standard). is USD 3150 ) You can buy 1000W brushless motors for around $50- & I am still going down the path of searching out suitable motors & a reasonably priced planetary gear box that can handle the high input revs. With that air comp regulator of Hughs, (I may have mentioned this) it would be easy to fill the motor up with oil if you incorporated a fill nozzle. Leave a bit of air in the system for oil expansion. This might be handy if you found the motors were running a bit hot, or you wanted a bit more protection in salt water. Cheers Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. Cliff From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Thanks Alec that was helpful. Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change from forward to reverse. Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? Alan Sent from my iPad On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, > > >On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. > > >Best, > >Alec > > >On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Alec, >>what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>Are you happy with the speed? >>I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>an easy solution. >>I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>continual operation are in question. >>Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>Alan >> >> >> >>Sent from my iPad >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 21:14:27 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:14:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411953267.97102.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Does anyone know the maximum rpm on the Minn Kota 101? Cliff / Vance, I found a plastic bucket with suitably angled sides to form my kort nozzle round. Worked well & came off easy. My mistake was making the the kort nozzle, fins & motor mount all one peice, as it took a long time fiberglassing & getting a good finish. Alan ________________________________ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Vance, if you will send me your email off list. I will send you a set of drawings as PDFs files or if you have Autocad, I will send as dwg. The kort nozzle drawing has the id profile listed as a table so if you have a lathe you should be able to turn the plug if the lathe can handle the diameter. My email is cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net. Cliff Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. > > >That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. > > >Cliff > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > >From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > > >My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. >Vance > >Sent from my iPhone > > > > >On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >>Redus Engineering >>USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >>cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> >>From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> >> >>Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >>Vance >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> >>On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>> >>> >>>I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>> >>>I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>> >>>I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>> >>>I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>> >>>From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> >>> >>>Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>>Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>>vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>>I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>>hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>>I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>>horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>>from forward to reverse. >>>Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>>Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>>On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>>Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> >>>>On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>> >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>>Alec >>>> >>>> >>>>On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>Alec, >>>>>what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>>I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>>Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>>Are you happy with the speed? >>>>>I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>>an easy solution. >>>>>I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>>over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>>to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>>Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>>mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>>continual operation are in question. >>>>>Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>>Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sent from my iPad >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 21:33:51 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:33:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411953267.97102.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411953267.97102.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5E89FF89-1B64-402A-9C05-17ACE5856889@AOL.com> I read about some guys playing with them who got 154 rpm per volt applied. I suspect that means unloaded, but it wasn't clear. A MK 101 by that rule would turn 5544 rpm wide open. There should be more info at the MK site. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 9:14 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Does anyone know the maximum rpm on the Minn Kota 101? > Cliff / Vance, I found a plastic bucket with suitably angled sides to form my kort nozzle round. > Worked well & came off easy. My mistake was making the the kort nozzle, fins & motor mount > all one peice, as it took a long time fiberglassing & getting a good finish. > Alan > > > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > Vance, if you will send me your email off list. I will send you a set of drawings as PDFs files or if you have Autocad, I will send as dwg. The kort nozzle drawing has the id profile listed as a table so if you have a lathe you should be able to turn the plug if the lathe can handle the diameter. > > My email is cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net. > > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. >> >> That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> Redus Engineering >>> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >>> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >>> >>> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >>> Vance >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>>> >>>> >>>> I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>>> >>>> I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>>> >>>> I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>>> >>>> I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>>> >>>> Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>>> Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>>> vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>>> I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>>> hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>>> I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>>> horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>>> from forward to reverse. >>>> Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>> >>>>> On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Alec, >>>>> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>> Are you happy with the speed? >>>>> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>> an easy solution. >>>>> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>> continual operation are in question. >>>>> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 21:58:50 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:58:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411953267.97102.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411953267.97102.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411955930.88031.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I download a strobe light for my iphone and did a quick measurement on a MK-101. The speed was 1230 rpm with the throttle full open. This is quick and dirty answer. Would need to put a proper strobe light on with a fully charged battery bank to get a better number. It don't think 5544 rpm is right. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ________________________________ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Does anyone know the maximum rpm on the Minn Kota 101? Cliff / Vance, I found a plastic bucket with suitably angled sides to form my kort nozzle round. Worked well & came off easy. My mistake was making the the kort nozzle, fins & motor mount all one peice, as it took a long time fiberglassing & getting a good finish. Alan ________________________________ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Vance, if you will send me your email off list. I will send you a set of drawings as PDFs files or if you have Autocad, I will send as dwg. The kort nozzle drawing has the id profile listed as a table so if you have a lathe you should be able to turn the plug if the lathe can handle the diameter. My email is cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net. Cliff Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. > > >That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. > > >Cliff > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > >________________________________ > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > > >My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. >Vance > >Sent from my iPhone > > > > >On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >>Redus Engineering >>USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >>cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> >> >>Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >>Vance >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> >>On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>> >>> >>>I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>> >>>I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>> >>>I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>> >>>I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> >>> >>>Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>>Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>>vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>>I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>>hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>>I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>>horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>>from forward to reverse. >>>Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>>Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>>On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>>Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> >>>>On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>> >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>>Alec >>>> >>>> >>>>On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>Alec, >>>>>what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>>I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>>Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>>Are you happy with the speed? >>>>>I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>>an easy solution. >>>>>I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>>over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>>to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>>Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>>mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>>continual operation are in question. >>>>>Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>>Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sent from my iPad >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 22:17:45 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 22:17:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411955930.88031.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411953267.97102.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411955930.88031.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That sounds a lot more realistic to me. Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I download a strobe light for my iphone and did a quick measurement on a MK-101. The speed was 1230 rpm with the throttle full open. This is quick and dirty answer. Would need to put a proper strobe light on with a fully charged battery bank to get a better number. It don't think 5544 rpm is right. > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > Does anyone know the maximum rpm on the Minn Kota 101? > Cliff / Vance, I found a plastic bucket with suitably angled sides to form my kort nozzle round. > Worked well & came off easy. My mistake was making the the kort nozzle, fins & motor mount > all one peice, as it took a long time fiberglassing & getting a good finish. > Alan > > > > > > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > Vance, if you will send me your email off list. I will send you a set of drawings as PDFs files or if you have Autocad, I will send as dwg. The kort nozzle drawing has the id profile listed as a table so if you have a lathe you should be able to turn the plug if the lathe can handle the diameter. > > My email is cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net. > > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. > Vance > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. >> >> That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. >> Vance >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff Redus >>> Redus Engineering >>> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >>> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >>> >>> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >>> Vance >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>>> >>>> >>>> I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>>> >>>> I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>>> >>>> I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>>> >>>> I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>>> >>>> Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>>> Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>>> vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>>> I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>>> hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>>> I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>>> horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>>> from forward to reverse. >>>> Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alan, >>>>> >>>>> On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alec >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Alec, >>>>> what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>> I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>> Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>> Are you happy with the speed? >>>>> I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>> an easy solution. >>>>> I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>> over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>> to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>> Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>> mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>> continual operation are in question. >>>>> Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 28 22:56:08 2014 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:56:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc In-Reply-To: <1411955930.88031.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <9BCBB97A-2A71-4AE3-97F3-F141243FFF6D@yahoo.com> <1411923805.90659.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <207F31A3-0D62-408D-973F-AE6D23E50C90@AOL.com> <1411943235.31323.YahooMailNeo@web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <73030F13-3C5B-48A5-B900-D2214519CEC8@AOL.com> <1411944929.98561.YahooMailNeo@web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411953267.97102.YahooMailNeo@web120905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411955930.88031.YahooMailNeo@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411959368.49762.YahooMailNeo@web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks, I haven't had much luck Googling an answer on rpm for Minn Kota or Motorguide & I would have thought it was pretty basic information. An Iphone strobe app! That's high tech for an old Guy, Cliff. I'm still struggling to send texts on my I phone. Alan ________________________________ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Alan, I download a strobe light for my iphone and did a quick measurement on a MK-101. The speed was 1230 rpm with the throttle full open. This is quick and dirty answer. Would need to put a proper strobe light on with a fully charged battery bank to get a better number. It don't think 5544 rpm is right. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Does anyone know the maximum rpm on the Minn Kota 101? Cliff / Vance, I found a plastic bucket with suitably angled sides to form my kort nozzle round. Worked well & came off easy. My mistake was making the the kort nozzle, fins & motor mount all one peice, as it took a long time fiberglassing & getting a good finish. Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc Vance, if you will send me your email off list. I will send you a set of drawings as PDFs files or if you have Autocad, I will send as dwg. The kort nozzle drawing has the id profile listed as a table so if you have a lathe you should be able to turn the plug if the lathe can handle the diameter. My email is cliffordredus at sbcglobal.net. Cliff Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Maybe we can do some evolutionary work here. Once the contour is settled, I could do a mandril and see how the FRP variant goes. Then I'll send you a box full. Vance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:55 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Vance, sounds like you could use the same setup I am working on with minimal work. > > >That's a good idea about making a plug mold for the ID of the kort nozzle and just using simple FRP layup against the plug mold to make light correctly shaped nozzles. FRP would be plenty strong. I may try that at some point. For my current workover, I don't have the time as I am doing a lot of consulting work this quarter. I have a friend that owns a machine shop. He has some very sweet CNCs. I email him a STEP file of the parts to fabricate that I generate from Autodesk Inventor. He then has some software that lets him set up his CNC based on the STEP files and like magic, out comes the parts. The only problem I have is that he is backup with work right now. I am using this approach for the first set of kort nozzles. > > >Cliff > > > > > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > >From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc > > > >My boat was 36 & 12 originally, and I've got a half dozen MK-101s ready and willing. Four to mount on the sub DW2000 style and spares. I'll be looking forward to your test results. Are you building a plug for fiberglass nozzles? Perry did that. The inner contour is the only critical factor, and the made them on a polished wood mandril in the shop. Cheap to fabricate, plenty rigid and weighed just a few ounces. >Vance > >Sent from my iPhone > > > > >On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >If you can wire your main battery bank for 36V, maybe you could use the same Mk-101/Kort Nozzle and air compensation that I am using? I don't mind sharing but you might want wait and see how it works. >> >> >>Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >>Cliff Redus >>Redus Engineering >>USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >>cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> >>From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:39 PM >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >> >> >> >>Okay, I'm changing props. And I'm trying to figure an appropriate bribe for that nozzle design. My first born child is busy. What's your second choice? >>Vance >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> >>On Sep 28, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >>Alan I will put my two cents in on thruster for psubs. >>> >>> >>>I went down a similar path to yours in trying to sort out thrusters for the upgrade on the R300 and the new boat I am designing, the R500. I looked at existing off the shelf thrusters for ROVs. They are nice but expensive. I got a quote about 6 months back from Robo Marine in Indonesia as well, the company you visited during your recent Indonesian trip. My assessment was they were too costly for a home built for a 100 lbf thruster. I also looked into designing a thruster with a kort nozzle. It looked like it was going to take quite a bit of engineering to sort this out so I abandoned this approach. >>> >>>I have settled on using four Minn Kota 101 lower units for each boat. I have them sitting in my shop. For the R300, I am using two fixed horizontals for propulsion /yaw control and two fixed vertical for pitch control /vertical station keeping. You have to love the MK 101's. They are super quite, powerful and the motor controllers work great with built in protection against slamming the units from full forward to full reversion. They are also potted. On the motor controller, I did dome playing around with these with a MK-101 lower unit. I removed the hardwired potentiometer that comes with the controller so that I could confirm that it was just a 0-5 analog VDC signal that was driving the controller and it was. If you listen to the controller, there is a built in relay that electrically isolates the controller when you are in the deadband around 2.5 VDC. This keeps the thruster from draining the batteries when the boat is parked. About two weeks ago, I gave the machine shop I use the drawings for mounting the kort nozzles and for the nozzles themselves. I am waiting on these parts. I went with a Wageningen series 37. This is a good shape when both forward and reversing thrust are important. I decided to go with Kipawa high performance three bladed props. These are also in my shop ready to be installed in the kort nozzles. I have decided to go with air pressure compensation on the MK's and am using the pressure reducing regulator that Hugh Fulton came up with mounting upside down for the reasons you mentioned. I place an order using the Psubs discount through Subconn for MCBH3M bulkhead connectors and all the cables for the four thrusters for the R300. I designed an adaptor to mate with MK 101 lower unit and the machine shop is currently fabriacating these. I have one three axis joy stick Digikey (APEM) 679-2264-ND (HFX33S10) in my shop that I am going to use to control all four thrusters. I am going to run these through the PLC in the R300 so that I can program different interaction between the thrusters but you could use the joy stick to directly to control the thrusters as each axis gives a 0-5 VDC analog output signal with a 2.5 VDC centralized position. >>> >>>I am using he exact same set up on the R500 with the exception that I have tilted the vertical thrusters to get sidal movement of the boat. >>> >>>I agree with both Alec and Hank, yes, there are some nice features to being able to rotate the vertical thrusters but to me, the KISS aspect of fixed thrusters out ways these for psubs. Hopeful I will have the workover done on the boat in time for Islamorada next summer if we hold the 2015 Psub convention in Florida again. >>> >>> >>>Cliff >>> >>> >>>From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:40 AM >>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster sizing etc >>> >>> >>> >>>Thanks Alec that was helpful. >>>Is that the normal mode of operation, having the side thrusters locked >>>vertical? Were you putting them in reverse or just relying on positive buoyancy. >>>I was planning on having side thrusters that are rotated by electric motors, so my >>>hands are just on a couple of joy sticks controlling all the motor functions. >>>I liked the idea of using rotating side thrusters so that I could have double the power travelling >>>horizontally if need be. Also there would be no need to ramp the motors down to change >>>from forward to reverse. >>>Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this anyone? >>>Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>>On 28/09/2014, at 4:55 pm, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>>Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> >>>>On the stern, snoopy has a 55 lb Minnkota. The side thrusters are actually of unknown thrust, they came with Snoopy and are Motorguides but I'm not exactly sure which model. My estimate would be about 40 lbs (each). What you saw in Florida would have been forward motion based on the stern thruster alone, as I was using the side thrusters just for depth keeping, locked vertical. The K250 has very limited battery capacity, carrying three batteries in the standard design and four in Snoopy. I find the thrusters well proportioned to the limited battery capacity. The bottom line is that a K250 has perfectly adequate thrusters and batteries for diving, but not enough for surface runs. Something in the league of Minnkota 101s is great, but only on subs with battery pods. >>>> >>>> >>>>Best, >>>> >>>>Alec >>>> >>>> >>>>On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>Alec, >>>>>what size motors do you have on Snoopy? >>>>>I remember watching you disappear into the blue surprisingly quickly in Florida. >>>>>Were you using the stern & side thrusters simultaneously? >>>>>Are you happy with the speed? >>>>>I have spent a LOT of time Googling brushless motors & haven't come up with >>>>>an easy solution. >>>>>I was looking particularly at inrunner motors, as they have a couple of advantages >>>>>over outrunners, however outrunners have lower revs. Whatever, they are both going >>>>>to need gearing down majorly & matching up with a planetary gear isn't looking easy. >>>>>Most of the motors that are available are found at Hobby King & are lightweight & made >>>>>mainly for model planes. So their strength & ability to sustain several hours of >>>>>continual operation are in question. >>>>>Must be a solution out there because 9 out of 10 thruster manufacturers are using brushless motors & I doubt they would be making there own. >>>>>Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sent from my iPad >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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