[PSUBS-MAILIST] bolt in penetration

Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sat Jan 10 15:15:17 EST 2015


If the university doesn't have the info, it should at least be traceable. All vessels built to ASME Section VIII Division 1 require a nameplate that will list the manufacturer, serial number, etc. Failing that, metallurgical tests are possible, but a bit more involved.

Sean


On January 10, 2015 12:54:26 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>Sean,
>Is there a on site test that can be done to determine the alloy?  
>Hank
>--------------------------------------------
>On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] bolt in penetration
>To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
><personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 2:46 PM
> 
> Parallel projects... Sister subs... Could be
> fun.
> Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On January 10, 2015
> 12:19:38 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Yes but
> there two of them.
> Hank
> On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via
> Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
> bolt in penetration
>  To: "Personal
> Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 2:16 PM
>  
>  If it is suitable, I presume
> you're calling
>  dibs?
> 
> Sean
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  
>  On January 10, 2015
>  12:10:14 PM MST, hank pronk via
> Personal_Submersibles
> 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  Sean,
>  I may
> be able to on Monday.  The sphere was
>  owned
> by a university and we can contact them to find the
>  manufacturer.  Given that is was used as a
> pressure vessel
>  paid for by a university
> working on a government project, I
>  have to
> assume it is good stuff.  Not very scientific but a
>  fair assumption at!
>   this
> stage.  Luckily it is right in
>  Brian's
> back yard in California so he was able to look
>  at it and might be able to do some detective
> work.
>  
>  Hank
>  On Sat, 1/10/15, Sean T. Stevenson via
>  Personal_Submersibles
> 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>   Subject: Re:
> [PSUBS-MAILIST]
>  bolt in penetration
>   To: "Personal
> 
> Submersibles General Discussion"
> 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  
>  Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015, 2:02
> PM
>   
>   Hank, any chance you
> can
>  find out what the alloy
>   is? This will have
>  a
> profound effect on its efficacy.
>   Sean
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   On!
>   
> January
>  10, 2015
>   11:51:22
> AM MST, hank pronk via
> 
> Personal_Submersibles
>  
> 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>   
>   Sean, 
> 
> 
>  Thank you, that is helpful.  My idea was
> to
>  
>  make the insert as t!
>  ight as
> possible (sweat it in)  I am
>  not
>   sure if the difference in material
>  would cause a problem
>  
> though. The idea of
>  seating the port into
> the shell a good
>  
>  option
> also.  I am just chewing the fat here, I have
>  enough
>   on my plate but it is
> fun to think
>  about.  I was wrong about
>   the size, the
>  sphere is 6
> feet and I wrote 60 in.  I imagine
>   that
> kills the rating quite a bit?
>   Hank
>   On Sat, 1/10/15,
>   Sean T.
> Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
>  
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> wrote:
>   
>    Subject: Re:
>  [PSUBS-MAILIST]
>   bolt in
> penetration
>    To: "Personal
>  
>  Submersibles General
> Discussion"
>  
> 
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  
> 
>   Received: Saturday, January 10, 2015!
>   , 1:40
>  PM
>   
> 
>    You could certainly
>  do
> that,
>   although a three inch
>    thick shell is pretty
>  !
>  
> 
> substantial - I might consider
>   
>  machining
>   eg. conical window
> seats in the
>  hull sh!
>   
> ell
>    directly,
>  and then
> derating the hull
>   to a depth
>  whereby the
>    actual hull
>  
>  thickness is the effective
> derated thickness
>    plus the effective
> reinforcement, which
>  just
>  
> happens to be a
>   
> 
> contiguous shell.  The
>   bolt-in
> arrangement
>  would not act as
>    hull
>  
> 
> reinforcement though - unless it was a force fit in the
>    hole. The idea of reinforcements around
>   openings is to
>    provide
>  material around the
>   hole to
> carry the shell
>  hoop
>   
> stresses that
>   would
> 
> otherwise have passed through the
>   
>   material in the opening, such that you
>  don't increase
>    the
> nominal shell
>  stress. This requires a
>   (relatively)
>    smooth load
> path to redirect
>  
>  stress
> around the hol!
>  e.
> Br!
>   ian
>    recently
>   asked me
>  about the
> effectiveness of reinforcements
>   
>  like perpendicular flanges lining the hole,
>  
>  and this is a
>    bit complicated, because
> 
> some
>   stress i!
>     s
>  indeed
>   
>  
> redirected into
>  such a flange, but the load
> is not evenly
>   
> 
> distributed as you move inboar!
>    d or
>   outboard away from the
>   
> hull
>  shell (with
>  
> diminishing returns at
>  increasing
>   
>   distances),
>  and you also introduce a stress
> concentration
>   at
>    the
> perpendicular
>  transition. Ideally,
>   reinforcements
>  should
>    be an effective
>  
>  thickening of the hull in the region
>   
>   immediately adjacent to
> the opening, tapered
>  smoothly
>   back
>    (something
>  like 4:1) into the hull
>  
> shell to provide
>  a
>   
> continuous load path
>  
>  with
> no stress
> concentrations at abrupt
>   
> 
>  changes in geometry.
>    Sean
>   
>   
>    
>    
>    
>   
> On
>  January 10, 2015 8:25:39
>  !
>    
>  
>  AM MST, hank pronk via
> Personal_Submersibles
>   
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  
> wrote:
>    Is it feasible to
> 
> have a
>    bolt in penetration in a 3 inch
>  thick sphere
>   hull.  I am
>   
>  picturing machining a hole
> in
>   the hull,
>  then
> inserting a
>    window housing
>   with a shoulder(flange) that fits tight in
>   
>   the hole and is bolted
> in
>  place.  Can that arrangement
>   act
>    as reinforcement for
> the hul!
>    l.
>   
>   Hank
>    
>  
> 
>  
>  Personal_Submersibles
> mailing list
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