From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 04:33:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:33:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1435739592.48089.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Alec, Funny you say that, it is 2;30 am an I can t sleep because I think my dome needs grease under it. The sound was like built up tension releasing, very frightening! :-0 I thought the EPDM gasket would have enough give (slip) maybe not. There is a very big temperature change at the bottom. Guess what I am doing today. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/30/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 10:50 PM Hank, do you have some grease under that dome? I recall Phil saying the scariest thing he's ever experienced was the screech of an un-greased dome contracting. Best, Alec > On Jun 30, 2015, at 6:53 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Finally! > Today is the first time Gamma did not leak a drop of oil from the drive, my new seal and new compensating hose did the trick.? The light bar on the other hand has some water.? This time the light bar was just sealed full of oil.? I think I am not getting all the air out, I will try a piece of clear garden hose next.? > I had a little scare today, the dome must have squeezed the gasket and let some tension off the retaining straps.? This made a scary sound.? I am doing another dive tomorrow, then I am off to do a proper deep test.? I am pushing my luck maybe. I am only diving 100 feet and like Vance says, a shoe box can be sealed to 100 feet :-) > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 04:38:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:38:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: <45fd0874-e379-4f51-9168-6149f7406fc6@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1435739924.45463.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, The gasket is EPDM rubber, I can not recall the hardness, but I think it is in the 80 range. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/30/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 10:54 PM What material and durometer / hardness of seat gasket are you using? Sean On June 30, 2015 4:53:00 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Finally! Today is the first time Gamma did not leak a drop of oil from the drive, my new seal and new compensating hose did the trick. The light bar on the other hand has some water. This time the light bar was just sealed full of oil. I think I am not getting all the air out, I will try a piece of clear garden hose next. I had a little scare today, the dome must have squeezed the gasket and let some tension off the retaining straps. This made a scary sound. I am doing another dive tomorrow, then I am off to do a proper deep test. I am pushing my luck maybe. I am only diving 100 feet and like Vance says, a shoe box can be sealed to 100 feet :-) Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 04:42:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 09:42:00 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: <1435739592.48089.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1435739592.48089.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, As you know I tested my Dome to 200 feet. The gasket is well greased and after the 200 feet test, there was quite a lot of grease squeezed out, so I am assuming it slid a little on the gasket. It didn't leak. Regards James On 1 July 2015 at 09:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alec, > Funny you say that, it is 2;30 am an I can t sleep because I think my dome > needs grease under it. > The sound was like built up tension releasing, very frightening! :-0 I > thought the EPDM gasket would have enough give (slip) maybe not. There is a > very big temperature change at the bottom. Guess what I am doing today. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 6/30/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 10:50 PM > > Hank, do you have some > grease under that dome? I recall Phil saying the scariest > thing he's ever experienced was the screech of an > un-greased dome contracting. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > > On Jun 30, 2015, at 6:53 PM, hank pronk > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Finally! > > > Today is the first time Gamma did not > leak a drop of oil from the drive, my new seal and new > compensating hose did the trick. The light bar on the > other hand has some water. This time the light bar was > just sealed full of oil. I think I am not getting all the > air out, I will try a piece of clear garden hose next. > > I had a little scare today, the dome must > have squeezed the gasket and let some tension off the > retaining straps. This made a scary sound. I am doing > another dive tomorrow, then I am off to do a proper deep > test. I am pushing my luck maybe. I am only diving 100 > feet and like Vance says, a shoe box can be sealed to 100 > feet :-) > > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 04:44:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:44:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1435740297.64437.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, What side is greased, the dome to gasket or the gasket to aluminum ring or both. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 4:42 AM Hank, As you know I tested my Dome to 200 feet.? The gasket is well greased and after the 200 feet test, there was quite a lot of grease squeezed out, so I am assuming it slid a little on the gasket.? It didn't leak.?RegardsJames On 1 July 2015 at 09:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, Funny you say that, it is 2;30 am an I can t sleep because I think my dome needs grease under it. The sound was like built up tension releasing, very frightening! :-0? ?I thought the EPDM gasket would have enough give (slip) maybe not. There is a very big temperature change at the bottom.? Guess what I am doing today. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/30/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 10:50 PM ?Hank, do you have some ?grease under that dome? I recall Phil saying the scariest ?thing he's ever experienced was the screech of an ?un-greased dome contracting. ?Best, ?Alec ?> On Jun 30, 2015, at 6:53 PM, hank pronk ?via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?> ?> Finally! ?> Today is the first time Gamma did not ?leak a drop of oil from the drive, my new seal and new ?compensating hose did the trick.? The light bar on the ?other hand has some water.? This time the light bar was ?just sealed full of oil.? I think I am not getting all the ?air out, I will try a piece of clear garden hose next.? ?> I had a little scare today, the dome must ?have squeezed the gasket and let some tension off the ?retaining straps.? This made a scary sound.? I am doing ?another dive tomorrow, then I am off to do a proper deep ?test.? I am pushing my luck maybe. I am only diving 100 ?feet and like Vance says, a shoe box can be sealed to 100 ?feet :-) ?> Hank ?> ?_______________________________________________ ?> Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 04:50:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 09:50:11 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear In-Reply-To: <1435706987.49329.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1435706987.49329.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I have a Buddy Pacific ablj which is an older type diving jacket (we used to call them the "toilet seat"). Emile and Carsten did a load of testing of escape and decided this was the best compromise. The jacket is a life jacket and also had a small air tank, plus regulator so you can breath and fill the jacket. There is a manual dump valve for releasing air. I have done emergency ascents using a similar type of jacket while doing diving training and although the dump valve is manual, I have found that as the air in the jacket expands as you ascent rapidly, the air releases from the dump valve anyway, forcing its way past. Its not ideal but the jacket stays intact. Its one of these. http://www.thediveforum.com/showthread.php?2660-Dive-Shed-Clearout-(and-no-I-m-not-doing-fundies-yet-) On 1 July 2015 at 00:29, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, > Thank you, this has been on my mind lately. I have the same except for > the inflatable vest. I have plenty of room to get the Stinke Hood on but I > find it very cumbersome. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 6/30/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 9:03 AM > > Hi > Hank, > Snoopy has a BIBS, > which would be used during cabin flooding. Each crew member > wears a compact inflatable jacket that uses a CO2 cartridge > and has a Spare Air for a few breaths on the way up. > Although the life jackets do not have over-pressure valves > like a Steinke hood, the amount of gas in the cartridge is > limited and therefore the life jackets should not explode. > My understanding is these cartridges have about 800 psi in > them, so they should be able to inflate at depth albeit much > more slowly than on the surface. I do expect they will reach > only a fraction of their normal volume at depth given the > amount of gas in the cartridge, so they will provide only a > very slow start toward the surface. But the difficulty with > the Steinke hoods is getting them on in such a confined > space. Maybe in the new sub I could store some spare trawl > floats in the cabin (there's more space) for speeding a > swimming ascent. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at > 8:07 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Alec, > > What type of bailout equipment do you carry. I have a > Steinke Hood but it is a squeeze to get through the hatch > with it inflated. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 04:51:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 09:51:13 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: <1435739924.45463.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <45fd0874-e379-4f51-9168-6149f7406fc6@email.android.com> <1435739924.45463.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, the epdm is 70 shore. And what are you doing up at this time.....? On 1 July 2015 at 09:38, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sean, > The gasket is EPDM rubber, I can not recall the hardness, but I think it > is in the 80 range. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 6/30/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 10:54 PM > > What material and durometer / hardness of seat > gasket are you using? > Sean > > > > > On June 30, 2015 4:53:00 PM > MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Finally! > Today is the first time Gamma did not leak a > drop of oil from the drive, my new seal and new compensating > hose did the trick. The light bar on the other hand has > some water. This time the light bar was just sealed full of > oil. I think I am not getting all the air out, I will try a > piece of clear garden hose next. > I had a > little scare today, the dome must have squeezed the gasket > and let some tension off the retaining straps. This made a > scary sound. I am doing another dive tomorrow, then I am > off to do a proper deep test. I am pushing my luck maybe. I > am only diving 100 feet and like Vance says, a shoe box can > be sealed to 100 feet :-) > Hank > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 04:59:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:59:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1435741163.90615.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, That vest is very similar to the Stinke hood without the hood. I find if the Stinke hood is manually inflated it is very manageable and I can get out of the sub easily. When it is inflated from submarine hp air it is rock hard and restricts my movement. Maybe your vest is a better option with a spare air. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 4:50 AM Hi Hank,?I have a Buddy Pacific ablj which is an older type diving jacket (we used to call them the "toilet seat").? Emile and Carsten did a load of testing of escape and decided this was the best compromise.? The jacket is a life jacket and also had a small air tank, plus regulator so you can breath and fill the jacket.? There is a manual dump valve for releasing air.? ?I have done emergency ascents using a similar type of jacket while doing diving training and although the dump valve is manual, I have found that as the air in the jacket expands as you ascent rapidly, the air releases from the dump valve anyway, forcing its way past.? Its not ideal but the jacket stays intact.?Its one of these.? ?http://www.thediveforum.com/showthread.php?2660-Dive-Shed-Clearout-(and-no-I-m-not-doing-fundies-yet-) On 1 July 2015 at 00:29, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, Thank you, this has been on my mind lately.? I have the same except for the inflatable vest.? I have plenty of room to get the Stinke Hood on but I find it very cumbersome. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/30/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 9:03 AM ?Hi ?Hank, ?Snoopy has a BIBS, ?which would be used during cabin flooding. Each crew member ?wears a compact inflatable jacket that uses a CO2 cartridge ?and has a Spare Air for a few breaths on the way up. ?Although the life jackets do not have over-pressure valves ?like a Steinke hood, the amount of gas in the cartridge is ?limited and therefore the life jackets should not explode. ?My understanding is these cartridges have about 800 psi in ?them, so they should be able to inflate at depth albeit much ?more slowly than on the surface. I do expect they will reach ?only a fraction of their normal volume at depth given the ?amount of gas in the cartridge, so they will provide only a ?very slow start toward the surface. But the difficulty with ?the Steinke hoods is getting them on in such a confined ?space. Maybe in the new sub I could store some spare trawl ?floats in the cabin (there's more space) for speeding a ?swimming ascent.? ?Best, ?Alec ? ?On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at ?8:07 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Alec, ?What type of bailout equipment do you carry.? I have a ?Steinke Hood but it is a squeeze to get through the hatch ?with it inflated. ?Hank ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 05:09:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 10:09:28 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear In-Reply-To: <1435741163.90615.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1435741163.90615.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It has its own built in regulator that you can breath from and inflate the jacket. So you wouldn't really need a spare air. On 1 July 2015 at 09:59, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > That vest is very similar to the Stinke hood without the hood. I find if > the Stinke hood is manually inflated it is very manageable and I can get > out of the sub easily. When it is inflated from submarine hp air it is > rock hard and restricts my movement. Maybe your vest is a better option > with a spare air. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 7/1/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 4:50 AM > > Hi > Hank, I have a Buddy Pacific ablj > which is an older type diving jacket (we used to call them > the "toilet seat"). Emile and Carsten did a load > of testing of escape and decided this was the best > compromise. The jacket is a life jacket and also had a > small air tank, plus regulator so you can breath and fill > the jacket. There is a manual dump valve for releasing > air. I have done emergency ascents > using a similar type of jacket while doing diving training > and although the dump valve is manual, I have found that as > the air in the jacket expands as you ascent rapidly, the air > releases from the dump valve anyway, forcing its way past. > Its not ideal but the jacket stays > intact. Its one of these. > > http://www.thediveforum.com/showthread.php?2660-Dive-Shed-Clearout-(and-no-I-m-not-doing-fundies-yet-) > On 1 July 2015 at 00:29, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi > Alec, > > Thank you, this has been on my mind lately. I have the > same except for the inflatable vest. I have plenty of room > to get the Stinke Hood on but I find it very cumbersome. > > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Tue, 6/30/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] saftey gear > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 9:03 AM > > > > Hi > > Hank, > > Snoopy has a BIBS, > > which would be used during cabin flooding. Each crew > member > > wears a compact inflatable jacket that uses a CO2 > cartridge > > and has a Spare Air for a few breaths on the way up. > > Although the life jackets do not have over-pressure > valves > > like a Steinke hood, the amount of gas in the cartridge > is > > limited and therefore the life jackets should not > explode. > > My understanding is these cartridges have about 800 psi > in > > them, so they should be able to inflate at depth albeit > much > > more slowly than on the surface. I do expect they will > reach > > only a fraction of their normal volume at depth given > the > > amount of gas in the cartridge, so they will provide only > a > > very slow start toward the surface. But the difficulty > with > > the Steinke hoods is getting them on in such a confined > > space. Maybe in the new sub I could store some spare > trawl > > floats in the cabin (there's more space) for speeding > a > > swimming ascent. > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at > > 8:07 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > wrote: > > Alec, > > > > What type of bailout equipment do you carry. I have a > > Steinke Hood but it is a squeeze to get through the > hatch > > with it inflated. > > > > Hank > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 10:52:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:52:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: <1435714386.41494.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1435714386.41494.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5593FEB6.5010000@psubs.org> I have to admit I'm confused. Isn't the tube connected to the motor on one end but open to the water on the other end? If so, why would the tube compress? On 6/30/2015 9:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I used 24 inches of 5/8 clear flat garden hose. The hose wants to be flat, so it compresses right away. > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 11:01:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 16:01:28 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: <1435740297.64437.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1435740297.64437.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank Sorry, didn't see this email before. On mine, the epdm is stuck to the aluminium ring with contact adhesive. The dome to gasket part is greased. Kind Regards James On 1 July 2015 at 09:44, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > What side is greased, the dome to gasket or the gasket to aluminum ring or > both. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 7/1/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 4:42 AM > > Hank, > As you know > I tested my Dome to 200 feet. The gasket is well greased > and after the 200 feet test, there was quite a lot of grease > squeezed out, so I am assuming it slid a little on the > gasket. It didn't > leak. RegardsJames > On 1 July 2015 at 09:33, > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hi Alec, > > Funny you say that, it is 2;30 am an I can t sleep because I > think my dome needs grease under it. > > The sound was like built up tension releasing, very > frightening! :-0 I thought the EPDM gasket would have > enough give (slip) maybe not. There is a very big > temperature change at the bottom. Guess what I am doing > today. > > Hank -------------------------------------------- > > On Tue, 6/30/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 10:50 PM > > > > Hank, do you have some > > grease under that dome? I recall Phil saying the > scariest > > thing he's ever experienced was the screech of an > > un-greased dome contracting. > > > > Best, > > > > Alec > > > > > > > > > On Jun 30, 2015, at 6:53 PM, hank pronk > > via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > > Finally! > > > > > Today is the first time Gamma did not > > leak a drop of oil from the drive, my new seal and new > > compensating hose did the trick. The light bar on the > > other hand has some water. This time the light bar > was > > just sealed full of oil. I think I am not getting all > the > > air out, I will try a piece of clear garden hose > next. > > > I had a little scare today, the dome must > > have squeezed the gasket and let some tension off the > > retaining straps. This made a scary sound. I am > doing > > another dive tomorrow, then I am off to do a proper > deep > > test. I am pushing my luck maybe. I am only diving > 100 > > feet and like Vance says, a shoe box can be sealed to > 100 > > feet :-) > > > Hank > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 11:46:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 08:46:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1435765578.56937.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, the p trap did not work, I replaced the seal and installed the new hose to act as a pressure compensator. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 12:31:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 12:31:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: <1435765578.56937.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1435765578.56937.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <559415F5.4060009@psubs.org> But was that because the p-trap was not long enough? I think the two are equivalent so an open tube should work if it's long enough. Jon On 7/1/2015 11:46 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, the p trap did not work, I replaced the seal and installed the > new hose to act as a pressure compensator. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 12:58:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 09:58:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] no more leaks In-Reply-To: <559415F5.4060009@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1435769911.92962.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, agreed, I was frustrated with experimenting so I replaced everything. The p trap needs to be clear so you can get the oil level just right. I was using air hose. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 13:22:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 10:22:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Message-ID: <1435771329.49522.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I just added a video of Premier Lake that I took yesterday. I mounted a proper camera finally. I am loading more today now that I figured it out. :-) Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 13:38:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 13:38:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <1435771329.49522.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1435771329.49522.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55942581.4080405@psubs.org> Where did you put the video? On 7/1/2015 1:22 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I just added a video of Premier Lake that I took yesterday. I mounted a proper camera finally. I am loading more today now that I figured it out. :-) > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 13:55:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 10:55:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <55942581.4080405@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1435773321.92704.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Oh ya, my videos are under Hank Pronk Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 14:23:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 18:23:59 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <1435773321.92704.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <55942581.4080405@psubs.org> <1435773321.92704.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I can't find any videos... is there a link? Thanks, Alec From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 1:55 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Oh ya, my videos are under Hank Pronk Hank ________________________________ From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2015 5:38:09 PM Where did you put the video? On 7/1/2015 1:22 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I just added a video of Premier Lake that I took yesterday. I mounted a proper camera finally. I am loading more today now that I figured it out. :-) > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 15:03:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 12:03:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1435777395.53160.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, just type in Hank Pronk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 15:46:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 15:46:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: References: <55942581.4080405@psubs.org> <1435773321.92704.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <559443A3.6010604@psubs.org> Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to. I think this is it, Alec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I can?t find any videos? is there a link? > > Thanks, > > Alec > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 16:02:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 13:02:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <559443A3.6010604@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1435780942.24240.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> That's it, I am loading a much better one right now. That was a test, I struggle with technology but I can lift a lot , :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 16:37:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 16:37:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <559443A3.6010604@psubs.org> References: <55942581.4080405@psubs.org> <1435773321.92704.YahooMailMobile@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <559443A3.6010604@psubs.org> Message-ID: I find it extraordinary how similar the sounds are to Snoopy! Same kitchen timer, switch noises, and even the motors sounds. Like we could just jump into each other's sub and it would feel immediately familiar. Keep the videos coming, I really enjoy seeing them! Thanks, Alec On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to. I think this is it, > Alec. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE > > > On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I can?t find any videos? is there a link? > > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 17:10:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 21:10:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <1435780942.24240.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <559443A3.6010604@psubs.org> <1435780942.24240.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1529729248.664584.1435785037758.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,have you got a spare camera you can hang from a float & fly pastfor some shots of the sub?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video | That's it, I am loading a much better one right now. That was a test, I struggle with technology but I can lift a lot , :-) | From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2015 7:46:43 PM | Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to.? I think this is it, Alec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 18:26:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 15:26:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1435789591.93977.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, I just finished loading another video, it is deeper, 100 feet. You can see how well the light works. I know what you mean, when I saw your video, I felt right at home. Did you notice how Gamma sways back and forth when I hit the vertical thruster, that is because the thruster is to one side. Also in the first video you can see after I back up to see the fishing rod how tight Gamma can turn with just a rudder. These are the things I notice when I watch your video. The timer is to remind me to check instruments. :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 4:37 PM I find it extraordinary how similar the sounds are to Snoopy! Same kitchen timer, switch noises, and even the motors sounds. Like we could just jump into each other's sub and it would feel immediately familiar. Keep the videos coming, I really enjoy seeing them! Thanks, Alec? On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to.? I think this is it, Alec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I can?t find any videos? is there a link? ? Thanks, Alec ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 18:28:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 15:28:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <1529729248.664584.1435785037758.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1435789724.40926.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, that is a nifty idea, but no extra camera yet. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 5:10 PM Hank,have you got a spare camera you can hang from a float & fly pastfor some shots of the sub?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video That's it, I am loading a much better one right now. That was a test, I struggle with technology but I can lift a lot , :-) From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2015 7:46:43 PM Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to.? I think this is it, Alec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 21:36:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 18:36:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Wrap Up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006f01d0b467$98021990$c8064cb0$@telus.net> As well, please post any, if not all, the photos that were taken during the convention in the psubs.org Projects & Photos - Events page. This would be great. If anyone has other photos from the 2014 convention in Bellingham WA then please post them in that area as well. Here's hoping! Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: June-30-15 8:42 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Wrap Up Steve, My only suggestion would be to find a way to record and save future presentations. Perhaps a PSUBS youtube channel or on the website where the members have access to them. I know I would be interested, as I may not make a convention for a while. Plus the videos could be a great refernce to access later when the little gray cells don't quite remember what was said. Ok, I'm off the soap box now ;) Keith T. Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Thanks for organizing Steve! My suggestion would be to return to a diving convention, and I'd like to nominate Seneca as the location. My reasons: > >- Great local support. We not only have Al Secor as a local PSUBS member but the support of a local dive organization with boats, connections to the chamber of commerce, etc. >- Close enough for the Great Lakes PSUBS fleet to attend, and within range of Dan H, Jon, myself, etc. >- Super visibility even after heavy rain. > >Just a thought. > >Best, > >Alec > > > >> On Jun 30, 2015, at 8:51 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> All, now that the convention is over a quick summary. While the final attendance was small (7) we enjoyed a full but relaxing agenda with lunches and dinners and further discussions. >> >> Here are some highlights: >> Snoopy drew a decent amount of curious on lookers at the >> International Sub Races and Psubs.org awareness was raised Live >> technical session presentations were successfully streamed with chat >> capability >> Note: While the intent was to have these presentations "recorded" on >> the twitch.tv site they were deleted because the control of viewing >> access could not be restricted as originally thought Sneek previews >> of Alec Smyth's recent Snoopy/Seneca dive video and his new sub >> design unveiling Member Jay Ellis shared photos of his cool early >> model Kittredge VAST(?) (K-250 style w/ internal side hard tanks) >> Bloopers: >> Due to a security alert the Washington Navy Yard Museum could only be >> accessed if you had an active duty person escorting you >> >> Thanks to those who presented, attended, watched on-line, opened their homes, drove and helped in anyway with the convention. A good team effort. >> >> Any ideas for next year? >> >> Steve >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 1 21:48:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 18:48:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <1435789724.40926.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1529729248.664584.1435785037758.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1435789724.40926.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007001d0b469$323f9d60$96bed820$@telus.net> Hank, perhaps I should drop by and GOPRO video your sub in operation from the outside. No deeper than 100 feet... Hmmm, will you be submarining during the August long weekend? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-01-15 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Alan, that is a nifty idea, but no extra camera yet. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 5:10 PM Hank,have you got a spare camera you can hang from a float & fly pastfor some shots of the sub?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video That's it, I am loading a much better one right now. That was a test, I struggle with technology but I can lift a lot , :-) From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2015 7:46:43 PM Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to.? I think this is it, Alec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 2 07:24:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 04:24:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <007001d0b469$323f9d60$96bed820$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1435836285.14595.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim, That would be great, but my daughter is getting married that weekend. I am off work all summer though, I can dive Slocan Lake with you. That must be about half way between us. I am doing a deep test Monday in Kootenay Lake. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 9:48 PM Hank, perhaps I should drop by and GOPRO video your sub in operation from the outside.? No deeper than 100 feet... Hmmm, will you be submarining during the August long weekend? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-01-15 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Alan, that is a nifty idea, but no extra camera yet.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 5:10 PM Hank,have you got a spare camera you can hang from a float & fly? pastfor? some shots of the sub?Alan ? ? ??? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:02 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video ? ? That's it,? I am loading a much better one right now.? That was a? test,? I struggle with technology? but I can lift a lot , :-)? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Jon Wallace via? Personal_Submersibles ;? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???To: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Personal Submersibles General Discussion ;? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Wed, Jul 1, 2015 7:46:43 PM? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ??? ? ? ???Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to.? I? think this ? ? ???is it, Alec. ? ? ???https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE ? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ???On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ??? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 2 14:04:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 14:04:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Wrap Up In-Reply-To: <006f01d0b467$98021990$c8064cb0$@telus.net> References: <006f01d0b467$98021990$c8064cb0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Tim, I have a few photos I will get posted. Still playing catch up from being out of town. Steve On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:36 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > As well, please post any, if not all, the photos that were taken during the > convention in the psubs.org Projects & Photos - Events page. This would > be > great. > > If anyone has other photos from the 2014 convention in Bellingham WA then > please post them in that area as well. > > Here's hoping! > > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: June-30-15 8:42 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Wrap Up > > Steve, > > My only suggestion would be to find a way to record and save future > presentations. Perhaps a PSUBS youtube channel or on the website where the > members have access to them. > > I know I would be interested, as I may not make a convention for a while. > Plus the videos could be a great refernce to access later when the little > gray cells don't quite remember what was said. > > Ok, I'm off the soap box now ;) > > Keith T. > > Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >Thanks for organizing Steve! My suggestion would be to return to a diving > convention, and I'd like to nominate Seneca as the location. My reasons: > > > >- Great local support. We not only have Al Secor as a local PSUBS member > but the support of a local dive organization with boats, connections to the > chamber of commerce, etc. > >- Close enough for the Great Lakes PSUBS fleet to attend, and within range > of Dan H, Jon, myself, etc. > >- Super visibility even after heavy rain. > > > >Just a thought. > > > >Best, > > > >Alec > > > > > > > >> On Jun 30, 2015, at 8:51 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> > >> All, now that the convention is over a quick summary. While the final > attendance was small (7) we enjoyed a full but relaxing agenda with lunches > and dinners and further discussions. > >> > >> Here are some highlights: > >> Snoopy drew a decent amount of curious on lookers at the > >> International Sub Races and Psubs.org awareness was raised Live > >> technical session presentations were successfully streamed with chat > >> capability > >> Note: While the intent was to have these presentations "recorded" on > >> the twitch.tv site they were deleted because the control of viewing > >> access could not be restricted as originally thought Sneek previews > >> of Alec Smyth's recent Snoopy/Seneca dive video and his new sub > >> design unveiling Member Jay Ellis shared photos of his cool early > >> model Kittredge VAST(?) (K-250 style w/ internal side hard tanks) > >> Bloopers: > >> Due to a security alert the Washington Navy Yard Museum could only be > >> accessed if you had an active duty person escorting you > >> > >> Thanks to those who presented, attended, watched on-line, opened their > homes, drove and helped in anyway with the convention. A good team effort. > >> > >> Any ideas for next year? > >> > >> Steve > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 2 22:02:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 19:02:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video In-Reply-To: <1435836285.14595.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <007001d0b469$323f9d60$96bed820$@telus.net> <1435836285.14595.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003301d0b534$5e007700$1a016500$@telus.net> Hank, I will be in the Okanagan near the end of July, I will contact you off list to arrange a day or two. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-02-15 4:25 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Tim, That would be great, but my daughter is getting married that weekend. I am off work all summer though, I can dive Slocan Lake with you. That must be about half way between us. I am doing a deep test Monday in Kootenay Lake. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 9:48 PM Hank, perhaps I should drop by and GOPRO video your sub in operation from the outside.? No deeper than 100 feet... Hmmm, will you be submarining during the August long weekend? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-01-15 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video Alan, that is a nifty idea, but no extra camera yet. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/1/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 5:10 PM Hank,have you got a spare camera you can hang from a float & fly? pastfor? some shots of the sub?Alan ? ? ??? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:02 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video ? ? That's it,? I am loading a much better one right now.? That was a? test,? I struggle with technology? but I can lift a lot , :-)? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ;? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???To: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Personal Submersibles General Discussion ;? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Subject: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] video? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Wed, Jul 1, 2015 7:46:43 PM? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ??? ? ? ???Hank, I think he means where did you upload it to.? I? think this ? ? ???is it, Alec. ? ? ???https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQNdM1HX1xE ? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ???On 7/1/2015 2:23 PM, Smyth, Alec via? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ??? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ??? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 2 22:02:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 19:02:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Wrap Up In-Reply-To: References: <006f01d0b467$98021990$c8064cb0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <002e01d0b534$5ddcc260$19964720$@telus.net> Thanks, Steve. We are all looking forward to seeing them. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-02-15 11:05 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Wrap Up Tim, I have a few photos I will get posted. Still playing catch up from being out of town. Steve On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:36 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: As well, please post any, if not all, the photos that were taken during the convention in the psubs.org Projects & Photos - Events page. This would be great. If anyone has other photos from the 2014 convention in Bellingham WA then please post them in that area as well. Here's hoping! Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: June-30-15 8:42 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Wrap Up Steve, My only suggestion would be to find a way to record and save future presentations. Perhaps a PSUBS youtube channel or on the website where the members have access to them. I know I would be interested, as I may not make a convention for a while. Plus the videos could be a great refernce to access later when the little gray cells don't quite remember what was said. Ok, I'm off the soap box now ;) Keith T. Private via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >Thanks for organizing Steve! My suggestion would be to return to a diving convention, and I'd like to nominate Seneca as the location. My reasons: > >- Great local support. We not only have Al Secor as a local PSUBS member but the support of a local dive organization with boats, connections to the chamber of commerce, etc. >- Close enough for the Great Lakes PSUBS fleet to attend, and within range of Dan H, Jon, myself, etc. >- Super visibility even after heavy rain. > >Just a thought. > >Best, > >Alec > > > >> On Jun 30, 2015, at 8:51 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> All, now that the convention is over a quick summary. While the final attendance was small (7) we enjoyed a full but relaxing agenda with lunches and dinners and further discussions. >> >> Here are some highlights: >> Snoopy drew a decent amount of curious on lookers at the >> International Sub Races and Psubs.org awareness was raised Live >> technical session presentations were successfully streamed with chat >> capability >> Note: While the intent was to have these presentations "recorded" on >> the twitch.tv site they were deleted because the control of viewing >> access could not be restricted as originally thought Sneek previews >> of Alec Smyth's recent Snoopy/Seneca dive video and his new sub >> design unveiling Member Jay Ellis shared photos of his cool early >> model Kittredge VAST(?) (K-250 style w/ internal side hard tanks) >> Bloopers: >> Due to a security alert the Washington Navy Yard Museum could only be >> accessed if you had an active duty person escorting you >> >> Thanks to those who presented, attended, watched on-line, opened their homes, drove and helped in anyway with the convention. A good team effort. >> >> Any ideas for next year? >> >> Steve >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 5 05:31:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 17:31:12 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Prestressed hull constructed of coiled tubing Message-ID: <5598F960.3080406@archivale.com> While looking for something else (roof shell information for my future house) I blundered into a 1975 thesis by Gerald Webb about the strength of prestressed cylinders made of coiled tubing. This set off a bright light in my skull, because I had actually seen the diagram of a pressure hull of a naval minisub with this kind of structure, but at the time had no idea of what it meant. It makes a helluva lot of sense - building a tubing coil is almost certainly cheaper than building an accurate metal plate cylinder roller. No information yet on what is done with the ends - haven't gotten that far. The document itself is on Scholar's Archive at OSU. Marc -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 5 06:09:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jens Laland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2015 12:09:58 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Prestressed hull constructed of coiled tubing In-Reply-To: <5598F960.3080406@archivale.com> References: <5598F960.3080406@archivale.com> Message-ID: <55990276.6090005@artematrix.org> Marc This may have relevance to what has been address earlier, ref http://www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/0505/msg00080.html Jens From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 5 10:41:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 07:41:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Prestressed hull constructed of coiled tubing Message-ID: <20150705074113.1DB3516A@m0048141.ppops.net> Marc, need a picture ! I'm a visual kind of guy ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles To: Psubs mailing list , International Psubs Minisubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Prestressed hull constructed of coiled tubing Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 17:31:12 +0800 While looking for something else (roof shell information for my future house) I blundered into a 1975 thesis by Gerald Webb about the strength of prestressed cylinders made of coiled tubing. This set off a bright light in my skull, because I had actually seen the diagram of a pressure hull of a naval minisub with this kind of structure, but at the time had no idea of what it meant. It makes a helluva lot of sense - building a tubing coil is almost certainly cheaper than building an accurate metal plate cylinder roller. No information yet on what is done with the ends - haven't gotten that far. The document itself is on Scholar's Archive at OSU. Marc -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 5 22:55:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 10:55:20 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Prestressed hull constructed of coiled tubing In-Reply-To: <55990276.6090005@artematrix.org> References: <5598F960.3080406@archivale.com> <55990276.6090005@artematrix.org> Message-ID: <5599EE18.80100@archivale.com> Thanks! Marc On 7/5/2015 6:09 PM, Jens Laland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Marc > > This may have relevance to what has been address earlier, ref > http://www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/0505/msg00080.html > > Jens > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 05:04:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 10:04:04 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. Message-ID: Hi All, I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and it had a leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting normally. I pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it back in and it didn't make any difference. It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts. It must have broken the seals. Anyway. I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be sensible and call it off. So It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, very disappointed. Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning. Hope these pics make it through. You can just see the air spilling from the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first. Kind Regards James ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156083 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 06:54:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 10:54:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1428454226.3245506.1436180044528.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks James,as a group we learn more from these fails than successes.Be good to hear the post mortem when you pull them apart.Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 9:04 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. Hi All,?I had a?failure of a day on Sat.? I put the boat?in, and it had aleak.? Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, butthe leak was from the forward main tank.? The nearly useless?windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking air.? Not just a little bit?which I could have put up with it, but loads.? The boat was diving quicker than venting normally.? ?I pulled it out and went around tightening them up.? Put it back in and it didn't make any difference.?It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before.? I think the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts.? It must have broken the seals.? ?Anyway.? I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, but asI was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be sensible and call it off.?SoIt was in for about 10 minutes.? Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, verydisappointed.?Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning.?Hope these pics make it through.? You can just see the air spilling from the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first.?Kind RegardsJames? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156083 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 07:00:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 07:00:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. Message-ID: <9afe0.3f013f35.42cbb9b7@aol.com> Hi James, Disappointing I'm sure, but all part of the educational process. No day is a failure if you learn something new. That's still one beautiful boat. Jim In a message dated 7/6/2015 4:04:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hi All, I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and it had a leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting normally. I pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it back in and it didn't make any difference. It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts. It must have broken the seals. Anyway. I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be sensible and call it off. So It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, very disappointed. Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning. Hope these pics make it through. You can just see the air spilling from the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first. Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 07:40:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 04:40:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436182849.25429.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, A good lesson here for all, it is perfectly normal to have failed dive trips. It really sucks, but there is always next week. I am sure you are in good company, I will bet even Nuytco has bailed on a dive for similar reasons. I am sure we all have a story or two of failed dives. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 5:04 AM Hi All,? I had a?failure of a day on Sat.? I put the boat?in, and it had a leak.? Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak was from the forward main tank.? The nearly useless?windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking air.? Not just a little bit?which I could have put up with it, but loads.? The boat was diving quicker than venting normally.? ?I pulled it out and went around tightening them up.? Put it back in and it didn't make any difference.?It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before.? I think the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts.? It must have broken the seals.? ?Anyway.? I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be sensible and call it off. ? So It was in for about 10 minutes.? Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, very disappointed.?Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning.?Hope these pics make it through.? You can just see the air spilling from the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first.?Kind RegardsJames? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 08:26:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 05:26:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Message-ID: <1436185609.36469.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 09:08:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 07:08:00 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <1436185609.36469.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436185609.36469.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank - the force developed is dependent on the stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen you're pushing on. You can't necessarily equate this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it. There are many online tools for calculating the developed tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the system, it becomes more geometry dependent. A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate because the bolt will change length under load). If you assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and calculate the material properties. Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any two to calculate the third. What are you making / testing? Sean On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi all, >I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt >can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many >foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs >push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 09:49:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 14:49:38 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: <1436182849.25429.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436182849.25429.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys. I have already fixed the problem. Ive just stuck the widows in now with sikaflex. I didn't want to do that to start with as I wanted them to be able to come off for maintenance. But now they are stuck forever..... I used a different method for filling the aft motor. I have 2 tubes coming from the potted original shaft that act as the fill and vent. With the talk recently of "zero bubble tolerance", I filled the motor as much as I could, then filled an ice cream tub with oil and stuck the 2 pipes under. I could then flush out the remaining few air bubbles and get the plugs in all under the oil. Zero bubble. Also the vents I put in the side thrusters allowed for proper filling. I am confident I have no air at all in any of the 3 motors. On 6 July 2015 at 12:40, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > A good lesson here for all, it is perfectly normal to have failed dive > trips. It really sucks, but there is always next week. > I am sure you are in good company, I will bet even Nuytco has bailed on a > dive for similar reasons. I am sure we all have a story or two of failed > dives. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 7/6/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 5:04 AM > > Hi > All, > I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and > it had a > leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a > complete failure, but > the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly > useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking > air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with > it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting > normally. > I > pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it > back in and it didn't make any > difference. It > was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think > the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat > for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts. It must > have broken the seals. Anyway. I could have > possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, > but as > I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be > sensible and call it off. > > > > So > It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home > by 8:30, very > disappointed. Spent the afternoon sticking them in with > Sikaflex and moaning. Hope these pics make it through. You can > just see the air spilling from the widows in the second > picture and the boat is going down nose > first. Kind RegardsJames > ? > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 13:59:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 06 Jul 2015 17:59 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1ZCAg4-0ODg5A0@fwd14.t-online.de> For what reason you have the 5 portholes in your ballast tank? Scuba diver inside the tank?? vbr Carsten "James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: Hi All, I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and it had a leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasnt a complete failure, but the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting normally. I pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it back in and it didn't make any difference. It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts. It must have broken the seals. Anyway. I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be sensible and call it off. So It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, very disappointed. Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning. Hope these pics make it through. You can just see the air spilling from the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first. Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156083 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 15:50:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 19:50:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <1436185609.36469.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436185609.36469.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <878372481.3639665.1436212252279.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,can you set the bolt up vertically with a 250lbweight on it & turn it with a torque wrench?This may help too Hank.http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/jack-screws-force-157886/ Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:26 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 16:44:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 13:44:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436215481.32170.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> James, You use the phrase "The nearly useless windows that I put on the forward tank" is that because of your disappointment with the leak or because they don't provide the visibility you had hoped for. Pete -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, July 6, 2015, 4:04 AM Hi All,? I had a?failure of a day on Sat.? I put the boat?in, and it had a leak.? Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak was from the forward main tank.? The nearly useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking air.? Not just a little bit?which I could have put up with it, but loads.? The boat was diving quicker than venting normally.? ?I pulled it out and went around tightening them up.? Put it back in and it didn't make any difference.?It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before.? I think the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts.? It must have broken the seals.? ?Anyway.? I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be sensible and call it off. ? So It was in for about 10 minutes.? Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, very disappointed.?Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning.?Hope these pics make it through.? You can just see the air spilling from the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first.?Kind RegardsJames? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 16:50:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 21:50:49 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: <1436215481.32170.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1436215481.32170.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Carsten, Pete. Yes, the 5 portholes were supposed to be so I could see out. I thought it was a good idea, but they are too small and too far away from the main dome to be of any real use. I can see a little and they do let light through, but as I said, they are "nearly useless". I am diving this weekend (I hope!) so I will take a picture and you can judge for yourself. I have sealed them now with sikaflex so I don't think they will leak. Regards James On 6 July 2015 at 21:44, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, You use the phrase "The nearly useless windows that I put on the > forward tank" is that because of your disappointment with the leak or > because they don't provide the visibility you had hoped for. > > Pete > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 7/6/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: Monday, July 6, 2015, 4:04 AM > > Hi > All, > I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and > it had a > leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a > complete failure, but > the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly > useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking > air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with > it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting > normally. > I > pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it > back in and it didn't make any > difference. It > was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think > the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat > for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts. It must > have broken the seals. Anyway. I could have > possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, > but as > I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be > sensible and call it off. > > > > So > It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home > by 8:30, very > disappointed. Spent the afternoon sticking them in with > Sikaflex and moaning. Hope these pics make it through. You can > just see the air spilling from the widows in the second > picture and the boat is going down nose > first. Kind RegardsJames > ? > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 16:53:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 21:53:18 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: <1436215481.32170.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: in fact, this is a classic example of why making a full scale mock up would be a good idea. If I had done that, I would have known they were rubbish.....but we learn... James On 6 July 2015 at 21:50, James Frankland wrote: > Hi Carsten, Pete. > > Yes, the 5 portholes were supposed to be so I could see out. I thought it > was a good idea, but they are too small and too far away from the main dome > to be of any real use. I can see a little and they do let light through, > but as I said, they are "nearly useless". I am diving this weekend (I > hope!) so I will take a picture and you can judge for yourself. I have > sealed them now with sikaflex so I don't think they will leak. > > Regards > James > > > On 6 July 2015 at 21:44, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> James, You use the phrase "The nearly useless windows that I put on the >> forward tank" is that because of your disappointment with the leak or >> because they don't provide the visibility you had hoped for. >> >> Pete >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 7/6/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Date: Monday, July 6, 2015, 4:04 AM >> >> Hi >> All, >> I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and >> it had a >> leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a >> complete failure, but >> the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly >> useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking >> air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with >> it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting >> normally. >> I >> pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it >> back in and it didn't make any >> difference. It >> was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think >> the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat >> for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts. It must >> have broken the seals. Anyway. I could have >> possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, >> but as >> I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be >> sensible and call it off. >> >> >> >> So >> It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home >> by 8:30, very >> disappointed. Spent the afternoon sticking them in with >> Sikaflex and moaning. Hope these pics make it through. You can >> just see the air spilling from the widows in the second >> picture and the boat is going down nose >> first. Kind RegardsJames >> ? >> ? >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 17:11:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 21:11:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: <1436215481.32170.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1100251574.3753374.1436217078705.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James,they look quite cool. I think they are a good attribute evenif they aren't that functional. You know, like Women, they canlook good but not necessarily be that functional.Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. in fact, this is a classic?example? of why?making a full scale mock up would be a good idea.? If I had done that, I would have known they were rubbish.....but we learn...?James On 6 July 2015 at 21:50, James Frankland wrote: Hi Carsten, Pete.?Yes, the 5 portholes were supposed to be so I could see out.? I thought it was a good idea, but they are too small and too far away from the main dome to be of any real use.?? I can see a little and they do let light through, but as I said, they are "nearly useless".? I am diving this weekend (I hope!) so I will take a picture and you can judge for yourself.? I have sealed them now with sikaflex so I don't think they will leak.?RegardsJames? On 6 July 2015 at 21:44, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James, You use the phrase "The nearly useless windows that I put on the forward tank" is that because of your disappointment with the leak or because they don't provide the visibility you had hoped for. Pete -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Date: Monday, July 6, 2015, 4:04 AM ?Hi ?All,? ?I had a?failure of a day on Sat.? I put the boat?in, and ?it had a ?leak.? Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a ?complete failure, but ?the leak was from the forward main tank.? The nearly ?useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking ?air.? Not just a little bit?which I could have put up with ?it, but loads.? The boat was diving quicker than venting ?normally.? ??I ?pulled it out and went around tightening them up.? Put it ?back in and it didn't make any ?difference.?It ?was strange as they have been perfectly ok before.? I think ?the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat ?for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts.? It must ?have broken the seals.? ?Anyway.? I could have ?possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, ?but as ?I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be ?sensible and call it off. ?? ?So ?It was in for about 10 minutes.? Pulled it out and was home ?by 8:30, very ?disappointed.?Spent the afternoon sticking them in with ?Sikaflex and moaning.?Hope these pics make it through.? You can ?just see the air spilling from the widows in the second ?picture and the boat is going down nose ?first.?Kind RegardsJames? ?? ?? ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 18:50:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 15:50:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436223010.15420.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome. I want to test it with grease and without. I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM Hank - the force developed is dependent on the stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? There are many online tools for calculating the developed tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the system, it becomes more geometry dependent. A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate because the bolt will change length under load). If you assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and calculate the material properties. Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any two to calculate the third. What are you making / testing? Sean On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 18:58:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 15:58:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <878372481.3639665.1436212252279.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1436223509.56141.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Thanks, but I have just had a great idea. I can put an old port in my test chamber with a pusher bolt on the side and I can pressure it up to the exact amount and get a real comparison. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 3:50 PM Hank,can you set the bolt up vertically with a 250lbweight on it & turn it with a torque wrench?This may help too Hank.http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/jack-screws-force-157886/ Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:26 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 20:31:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:31:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <1436223010.15420.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436223010.15420.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, > Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. > I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my > dome. I want to test it with grease and without. I will squeeze the > gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt > to see if the gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome can > expand and contract at depth. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM > > Hank - the force developed is dependent on the > stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen > you're pushing on. You can't necessarily equate > this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt > threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the > elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it. > There are many online tools for calculating the developed > tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these > consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and > require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, > and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the > system, it becomes more geometry dependent. > A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per > inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate > axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate > because the bolt will change length under load). If you > assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the > overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), > divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length > change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen > measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack > bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based > on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. > Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or > fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and > calculate the material properties. > Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any > two to calculate the third. > What are you making / testing? > Sean > > > > > On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM > MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi all, > I > need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much > force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn > the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to > rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse > thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. > Hank > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 21:00:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 01:00:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: References: <1436223010.15420.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31309715.122273.1436230823299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth.? Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ?Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ?stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ?you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate ?this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ?threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ?elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? ?There are many online tools for calculating the developed ?tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these ?consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ?require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, ?and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the ?system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ?A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ?inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate ?axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate ?because the bolt will change length under load). If you ?assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the ?overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), ?divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length ?change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen ?measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack ?bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based ?on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ?Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or ?fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and ?calculate the material properties. ?Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ?two to calculate the third. ?What are you making / testing? ?Sean ?On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ?MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?Hi all, ?I ?need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ?force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn ?the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to ?rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse ?thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ?Hank ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 21:21:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 18:21:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436232102.81098.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, There is no inside dia edge, terrifying is right :-) now I know what to expect so it will be okay. I just want to make sure the dome will not be damaged. Alan, The retaining straps are very tight to insure there is no leakage at the surface. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 8:31 PM Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ?Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ?stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ?you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate ?this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ?threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ?elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? ?There are many online tools for calculating the developed ?tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these ?consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ?require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, ?and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the ?system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ?A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ?inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate ?axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate ?because the bolt will change length under load). If you ?assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the ?overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), ?divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length ?change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen ?measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack ?bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based ?on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ?Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or ?fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and ?calculate the material properties. ?Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ?two to calculate the third. ?What are you making / testing? ?Sean ?On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ?MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?Hi all, ?I ?need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ?force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn ?the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to ?rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse ?thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ?Hank ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 21:32:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 18:32:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436232762.51300.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, What is under your dome. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 8:31 PM Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ?Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ?stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ?you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate ?this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ?threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ?elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? ?There are many online tools for calculating the developed ?tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these ?consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ?require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, ?and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the ?system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ?A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ?inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate ?axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate ?because the bolt will change length under load). If you ?assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the ?overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), ?divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length ?change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen ?measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack ?bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based ?on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ?Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or ?fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and ?calculate the material properties. ?Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ?two to calculate the third. ?What are you making / testing? ?Sean ?On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ?MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?Hi all, ?I ?need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ?force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn ?the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to ?rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse ?thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ?Hank ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 21:52:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 21:52:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <1436232762.51300.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436232762.51300.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A flat ring cut from thin plastic and lubricated with vacuum grease on both sides. I'm glad to say it doesn't make any sound at all. Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:32 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > What is under your dome. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 7/6/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 8:31 PM > > Does the > window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would > think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to > slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter > less-terrifying option. > Best, > Alec > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > Sean, > > Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights > like Alan says. > > I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed > under my dome. I want to test it with grease and > without. I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then > push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the > gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome can > expand and contract at depth. > > Hank > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM > > > > Hank - the force developed is dependent on the > > stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen > > you're pushing on. You can't necessarily > equate > > this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt > > threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the > > elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate > it. > > There are many online tools for calculating the > developed > > tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but > these > > consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and > > require an accurate estimate of coefficients of > friction, > > and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate > the > > system, it becomes more geometry dependent. > > A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per > > inch, so a set number of turns will give you the > approximate > > axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - > approximate > > because the bolt will change length under load). If you > > assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to > the > > overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt > turns), > > divided by the gauge length (distance over which the > length > > change occurs, which would be the length of your > specimen > > measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your > jack > > bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated > based > > on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. > > Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt > or > > fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) > and > > calculate the material properties. > > Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any > > two to calculate the third. > > What are you making / testing? > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM > > MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I > > need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much > > force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to > turn > > the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take > to > > rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in > coarse > > thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. > > Hank > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 21:58:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 18:58:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436234310.73263.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, do you know the hardness of the plastic ring. The Acrylics hand book recommends min duro 80. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:52 PM A flat ring cut from thin plastic and lubricated with vacuum grease on both sides. I'm glad to say it doesn't make any sound at all. Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:32 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, What is under your dome. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 8:31 PM ?Does the ?window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would ?think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to ?slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter ?less-terrifying option. ?Best, ?Alec ?On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 ?PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Sean, ?Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights ?like Alan says. ?I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed ?under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and ?without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then ?push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the ?gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can ?expand and contract at depth. ?Hank ?-------------------------------------------- ?On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ??Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ??To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ??Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ??Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ??stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ??you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily ?equate ??this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ??threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ??elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate ?it.? ??There are many online tools for calculating the ?developed ??tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but ?these ??consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ??require an accurate estimate of coefficients of ?friction, ??and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate ?the ??system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ??A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ??inch, so a set number of turns will give you the ?approximate ??axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - ?approximate ??because the bolt will change length under load). If you ??assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to ?the ??overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt ?turns), ??divided by the gauge length (distance over which the ?length ??change occurs, which would be the length of your ?specimen ??measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your ?jack ??bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated ?based ??on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ??Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt ?or ??fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) ?and ??calculate the material properties. ??Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ??two to calculate the third. ??What are you making / testing? ??Sean ??On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ??MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ?? ?wrote: ??Hi all, ??I ??need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ??force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to ?turn ??the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take ?to ??rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in ?coarse ??thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ??Hank ??Personal_Submersibles mailing ?list ??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ??_______________________________________________ ??Personal_Submersibles mailing ?list ??Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ??http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing ?list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 6 22:48:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 22:48:14 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <1436234310.73263.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436234310.73263.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately I don't know the hardness, but it would be super high because the material is polycarbonate sheet. In my case the ring does not serve as a gasket. The dome is sealed by an O ring. The square edge of the acrylic is chamfered to take the O ring, and the flat plastic ring is just a spacer to get the O ring to touch both the chamfered acrylic and the window seat to form the initial seal. I had to experiment with a few thicknesses until I found one that made everything fit together just right. It was something like 1/16". Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, do you know the hardness of the plastic ring. The Acrylics hand > book recommends min duro 80. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 7/6/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:52 PM > > A flat > ring cut from thin plastic and lubricated with vacuum grease > on both sides. I'm glad to say it doesn't make any > sound at all. > Alec > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:32 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > Alec, > > What is under your dome. > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 7/6/15, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 8:31 PM > > > > Does the > > window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I > would > > think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed > to > > slip with or without grease - with grease being the > quieter > > less-terrifying option. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 > > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > Sean, > > > > Thank you for the input, I think I will just use > weights > > like Alan says. > > > > I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket > compressed > > under my dome. I want to test it with grease and > > without. I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture > then > > push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if > the > > gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome > can > > expand and contract at depth. > > > > Hank > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation > > > > To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > > > > > > Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM > > > > > > > > Hank - the force developed is dependent on the > > > > stiffness of both the bolt material and of the > specimen > > > > you're pushing on. You can't necessarily > > equate > > > > this directly to torque because of friction in the > bolt > > > > threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course > the > > > > elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate > > it. > > > > There are many online tools for calculating the > > developed > > > > tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, > but > > these > > > > consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and > > > > require an accurate estimate of coefficients of > > friction, > > > > and this will change with lubrication. As you > complicate > > the > > > > system, it becomes more geometry dependent. > > > > A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per > > > > inch, so a set number of turns will give you the > > approximate > > > > axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - > > approximate > > > > because the bolt will change length under load). If > you > > > > assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to > > the > > > > overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt > > turns), > > > > divided by the gauge length (distance over which the > > length > > > > change occurs, which would be the length of your > > specimen > > > > measured between the rigid fixture and the end of > your > > jack > > > > bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated > > based > > > > on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. > > > > Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the > bolt > > or > > > > fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the > specimen) > > and > > > > calculate the material properties. > > > > Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any > > > > two to calculate the third. > > > > What are you making / testing? > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM > > > > MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I > > > > need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how > much > > > > force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench > to > > turn > > > > the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it > take > > to > > > > rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in > > coarse > > > > thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. > > > > Hank > > > > > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > > list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > > list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing > > list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 01:21:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 22:21:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <31309715.122273.1436230823299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1436223010.15420.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <31309715.122273.1436230823299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan The DeepWorker stainless dome retainer straps can?t be ?wound tight? ? they go to a central UHMW hub just to put an even load on the acrylic hemi. The retaining straps are there to prevent the dome from burping or blowing off if the sub were to develop a high internal pressure that was unrelieved because of failure or damage to the over pressure vent. An unlikely event, but I did have a dome blow partly off in the early prototype ?Sea Urchin? many years ago. This was just upon hitting the surface with a relatively small overpressure. That was the last time I dove a sub without dome retainers. The water, she come in very fast! It was during a shoot for a show called ?Frontier Man? ? I think it?s still on Youtube somewhere. Phil From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 6:00 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hank, I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bands look like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top. I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movement when they are compressed at depth. Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought the vertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom. Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome. I want to test it with grease and without. I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM Hank - the force developed is dependent on the stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen you're pushing on. You can't necessarily equate this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it. There are many online tools for calculating the developed tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the system, it becomes more geometry dependent. A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate because the bolt will change length under load). If you assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and calculate the material properties. Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any two to calculate the third. What are you making / testing? Sean On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 04:58:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 09:58:58 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: <1100251574.3753374.1436217078705.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1436215481.32170.YahooMailBasic@web161406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1100251574.3753374.1436217078705.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan! Im sure your not supposed to say things like that these days! But I know what you mean... On 6 July 2015 at 22:11, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > they look quite cool. I think they are a good attribute even > if they aren't that functional. You know, like Women, they can > look good but not necessarily be that functional. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 7, 2015 8:53 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. > > in fact, this is a classic example of why making a full scale mock up > would be a good idea. If I had done that, I would have known they were > rubbish.....but we learn... > > James > > > > On 6 July 2015 at 21:50, James Frankland > wrote: > > Hi Carsten, Pete. > > Yes, the 5 portholes were supposed to be so I could see out. I thought it > was a good idea, but they are too small and too far away from the main dome > to be of any real use. I can see a little and they do let light through, > but as I said, they are "nearly useless". I am diving this weekend (I > hope!) so I will take a picture and you can judge for yourself. I have > sealed them now with sikaflex so I don't think they will leak. > > Regards > James > > > On 6 July 2015 at 21:44, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, You use the phrase "The nearly useless windows that I put on the > forward tank" is that because of your disappointment with the leak or > because they don't provide the visibility you had hoped for. > > Pete > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 7/6/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: Monday, July 6, 2015, 4:04 AM > > Hi > All, > I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and > it had a > leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a > complete failure, but > the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly > useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking > air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with > it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting > normally. > I > pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it > back in and it didn't make any > difference. It > was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think > the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat > for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts. It must > have broken the seals. Anyway. I could have > possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, > but as > I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be > sensible and call it off. > > > > So > It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home > by 8:30, very > disappointed. Spent the afternoon sticking them in with > Sikaflex and moaning. Hope these pics make it through. You can > just see the air spilling from the widows in the second > picture and the boat is going down nose > first. Kind RegardsJames > ? > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 08:03:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 12:03:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: References: <1436223010.15420.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <31309715.122273.1436230823299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <139939261.372875.1436270629746.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Phil,that puts that theory to bed then.So what failed on the dome? Was it a laminated flange orsome thing like that?Alan From: Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation AlanThe DeepWorker stainless dome retainer straps can?t be ?wound tight? ? they go to a central UHMW hub just to put an even load on the acrylic hemi. The retaining straps are there to prevent the dome from burping or blowing off if the sub were to develop a high internal pressure that was unrelieved because of failure or damage to the over pressure vent. An unlikely event, but I did have a dome blow partly off in the early prototype ?Sea Urchin? many years ago. This was just upon hitting the surface with a relatively small overpressure. That was the last time I dove a sub without dome retainers. The water, she come in very fast!? It was during a? shoot for a show called ?Frontier Man? ? I think it?s still on Youtube somewhere. Phil? ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 6:00 PMTo: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation?Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth. Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan?From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. ?Best,?Alec ?On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM Hank - the force developed is dependent on the stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it. There are many online tools for calculating the developed tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the system, it becomes more geometry dependent. A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate because the bolt will change length under load). If you assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and calculate the material properties. Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any two to calculate the third. What are you making / testing? Sean On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 08:26:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 05:26:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <31309715.122273.1436230823299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1436271999.96593.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, When my dome made the mystery noise, I was at 100 feet deep. That puts about 18 tons on the dome. I think it was either the straps were able to relax and find their happy place, or, the super cold water made the dome contract. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:00 PM Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth.? Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ?Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ?stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ?you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate ?this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ?threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ?elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? ?There are many online tools for calculating the developed ?tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these ?consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ?require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, ?and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the ?system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ?A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ?inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate ?axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate ?because the bolt will change length under load). If you ?assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the ?overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), ?divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length ?change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen ?measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack ?bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based ?on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ?Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or ?fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and ?calculate the material properties. ?Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ?two to calculate the third. ?What are you making / testing? ?Sean ?On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ?MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?Hi all, ?I ?need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ?force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn ?the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to ?rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse ?thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ?Hank ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 17:27:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:27:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <1436271999.96593.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <31309715.122273.1436230823299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1436271999.96593.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <902671491.869423.1436304460284.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I remember Karl Stanley (or someone else) saying he cracked a dome at depthdue to an unexpected contraction of the pressure hull.Just in case everything is not right; how about an unmanned dive!You could record any noises by putting something like your cel phone in the hullon record.Then synchronize a watch on the support boat & record what depths you havethe sub down at at what times. So if you get a big "Crack" on your recording you?will be able to tell at what depth it happened.Easier said than done I know, but probably worth it.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, When my dome made the mystery noise, I was at 100 feet deep. That puts about 18 tons on the dome.? I think it was either the straps were able to relax and find their happy place, or, the super cold water made the dome contract. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:00 PM Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth.? Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan ? ? ? ? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ? Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ?Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ?stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ?you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate ?this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ?threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ?elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? ?There are many online tools for calculating the developed ?tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these ?consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ?require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, ?and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the ?system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ?A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ?inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate ?axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate ?because the bolt will change length under load). If you ?assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the ?overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), ?divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length ?change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen ?measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack ?bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based ?on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ?Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or ?fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and ?calculate the material properties. ?Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ?two to calculate the third. ?What are you making / testing? ?Sean ?On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ?MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?Hi all, ?I ?need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ?force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn ?the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to ?rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse ?thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ?Hank ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 18:01:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 17:01:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Message-ID: <28ierv312y840rh36nbyx3yy.1436306508793@email.android.com> Alan, When I was down diving with Karl Stanley earlier this year he showed me the veiwport that cracked. It was caused by him taking his sub to deep and the body warped putting side pressure on the veiwport. After that he derated his depth. This was on his first sub CBUG. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date:07/07/2015 4:27 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hank, I remember Karl Stanley (or someone else) saying he cracked a dome at depth due to an unexpected contraction of the pressure hull. Just in case everything is not right; how about an unmanned dive! You could record any noises by putting something like your cel phone in the hull on record. Then synchronize a watch on the support boat & record what depths you have the sub down at at what times. So if you get a big "Crack" on your recording you will be able to tell at what depth it happened. Easier said than done I know, but probably worth it. Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, When my dome made the mystery noise, I was at 100 feet deep. That puts about 18 tons on the dome. I think it was either the straps were able to relax and find their happy place, or, the super cold water made the dome contract. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:00 PM Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth. Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome. I want to test it with grease and without. I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM Hank - the force developed is dependent on the stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen you're pushing on. You can't necessarily equate this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it. There are many online tools for calculating the developed tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the system, it becomes more geometry dependent. A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate because the bolt will change length under load). If you assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and calculate the material properties. Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any two to calculate the third. What are you making / testing? Sean On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 18:59:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 15:59:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <28ierv312y840rh36nbyx3yy.1436306508793@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1436309964.27880.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I am starting slip testing tomorrow, I just bonded the gasket to the test chamber. As for testing the sub, I am using my barge with winch to lower the sub with my video camera recording. I will turn the radio on and talk to the sub from the surface. I will tell the sub the depth constantly and it will be recorded. Hope to do this next week, it is a big effort, I have to truck the barge 6 hr to the lake, then drive home, then come the next day with the sub. Maybe my wife will let me haul her car with the barge on the trailer so I can get home. :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/7/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, July 7, 2015, 6:01 PM Alan,When I was down diving with Karl Stanley earlier this year he showed me the veiwport that cracked. It was caused by him taking his sub to deep and the body warped putting side pressure on the veiwport. After that he derated his depth. This was on his first sub CBUG.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date:07/07/2015 4:27 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hank,I remember Karl Stanley (or someone else) saying he cracked a dome at depthdue to an unexpected contraction of the pressure hull.Just in case everything is not right; how about an unmanned dive!You could record any noises by putting something like your cel phone in the hullon record.Then synchronize a watch on the support boat & record what depths you havethe sub down at at what times. So if you get a big "Crack" on your recording you?will be able to tell at what depth it happened.Easier said than done I know, but probably worth it.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, When my dome made the mystery noise, I was at 100 feet deep. That puts about 18 tons on the dome.? I think it was either the straps were able to relax and find their happy place, or, the super cold water made the dome contract. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:00 PM Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth.? Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan ? ? ? ? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ? Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ?Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ?stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ?you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily equate ?this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ?threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ?elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? ?There are many online tools for calculating the developed ?tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these ?consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ?require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, ?and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the ?system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ?A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ?inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate ?axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate ?because the bolt will change length under load). If you ?assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the ?overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), ?divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length ?change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen ?measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack ?bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based ?on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ?Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or ?fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and ?calculate the material properties. ?Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ?two to calculate the third. ?What are you making / testing? ?Sean ?On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ?MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?Hi all, ?I ?need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ?force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn ?the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to ?rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse ?thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ?Hank ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 21:09:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:09:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <28ierv312y840rh36nbyx3yy.1436306508793@email.android.com> References: <28ierv312y840rh36nbyx3yy.1436306508793@email.android.com> Message-ID: <14e6b364de5-6b1-2bdfd@webprd-m40.mail.aol.com> His first cracked port, but not the last. Vance -----Original Message----- From: swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2015 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, When I was down diving with Karl Stanley earlier this year he showed me the veiwport that cracked. It was caused by him taking his sub to deep and the body warped putting side pressure on the veiwport. After that he derated his depth. This was on his first sub CBUG. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date:07/07/2015 4:27 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hank, I remember Karl Stanley (or someone else) saying he cracked a dome at depth due to an unexpected contraction of the pressure hull. Just in case everything is not right; how about an unmanned dive! You could record any noises by putting something like your cel phone in the hull on record. Then synchronize a watch on the support boat & record what depths you have the sub down at at what times. So if you get a big "Crack" on your recording you will be able to tell at what depth it happened. Easier said than done I know, but probably worth it. Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, When my dome made the mystery noise, I was at 100 feet deep. That puts about 18 tons on the dome. I think it was either the straps were able to relax and find their happy place, or, the super cold water made the dome contract. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:00 PM Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth. Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome. I want to test it with grease and without. I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM Hank - the force developed is dependent on the stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen you're pushing on. You can't necessarily equate this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it. There are many online tools for calculating the developed tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the system, it becomes more geometry dependent. A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate because the bolt will change length under load). If you assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and calculate the material properties. Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any two to calculate the third. What are you making / testing? Sean On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 7 22:22:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 02:22:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <1436309964.27880.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <28ierv312y840rh36nbyx3yy.1436306508793@email.android.com> <1436309964.27880.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <962261852.1047327.1436322169701.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,?thanks for filling in the details.Hank, all the best with the dive test /diving.Wonder if Vance has experienced those loud noises?from shifting view ports?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, I am starting slip testing tomorrow, I just bonded the gasket to the test chamber. As for testing the sub, I am using my barge with winch? to lower the sub with my video camera recording.? I will turn the radio on and talk to the sub from the surface.? I will tell the sub the depth constantly and it will be recorded.? Hope to do this next week, it is a big effort, I have to truck the barge 6 hr to the lake, then drive home, then come the next day with the sub.? Maybe my wife will let me haul her car with the barge on the trailer so I can get home. :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/7/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, July 7, 2015, 6:01 PM Alan,When I was down diving with Karl Stanley earlier this year he showed me the veiwport that cracked. It was caused by him taking his sub to deep and the body warped putting side pressure on the veiwport. After that he derated his depth. This was on his first sub CBUG.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date:07/07/2015? 4:27 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hank,I remember Karl Stanley (or someone else) saying he cracked a dome at depthdue to an unexpected contraction of the pressure hull.Just in case everything is not right; how about an unmanned dive!You could record any noises by putting something like your cel phone in the hullon record.Then synchronize a watch on the support boat & record what depths you havethe sub down at at what times. So if you get a big "Crack" on your recording you?will be able to tell at what depth it happened.Easier said than done I know, but probably worth it.Cheers Alan? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:26 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ? Alan, When my dome made the mystery noise, I was at 100 feet deep. That puts about 18 tons on the dome.? I think it was either the straps were able to relax and find their happy place, or, the super cold water made the dome contract. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:00 PM ? ? Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining ? bandslook like ? they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am ? wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that ? there is less movementwhen they ? are compressed at depth.? ? Also I ? commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that ? I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot ? out from the bottom.Perhaps ? you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping ? system? Alan ? ? ?? ? From: Alec Smyth via ? Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? Sent: Tuesday, ? July 7, 2015 12:31 PM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ?? ? ? Does the ? window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would ? think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter ? less-terrifying option. ? Best, ? Alec ? ? On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? ? Sean, ? ? Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights ? like Alan says. ? ? I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed ? under my dome.? I want to test it with grease and ? without.? I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the ? gasket allows movement.? I want to make sure my dome can ? expand and contract at depth. ? ? Hank ? -------------------------------------------- ? ? On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles ? ? wrote: ? ? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation ? ? ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? ? ? ?Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM ? ? ? ? ?Hank - the force developed is dependent on the ? ?stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen ? ? ?you're pushing on.? You can't necessarily ? equate ? ? ?this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt ? ? ?threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the ? ? ?elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it.? ? ? ?There are many online tools for calculating the developed ? ? ?tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these ? ? ?consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and ? ? ?require an accurate estimate of coefficients of ? friction, ? ? ?and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate ? the ? ? ?system, it becomes more geometry dependent. ? ? ?A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per ? ? ?inch, so a set number of turns will give you the ? approximate ? ? ?axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - ? approximate ? ?because the bolt will change length under load). If you ? ?assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to ? the ? ?overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt ? turns), ? ?divided by the gauge length (distance over which the ? length ? ?change occurs, which would be the length of your ? specimen ? ?measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your ? jack ? ?bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated ? based ? ? ?on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen.? ? ? ?Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt ? or ? ? ?fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) ? and ? ? ?calculate the material properties. ? ? ?Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any ? ? ?two to calculate the third. ? ?What are you making / testing? ? ? ?Sean ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM ? ? ?MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? wrote: ? ? ?Hi all, ? ? ?I ? ?need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much ? ?force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to ? turn ? ? ?the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take ? to ? ? ?rotate a bolt to? create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse ? ? ?thread bolt.? I need to make a test fixture. ? ? ?Hank ? ? ? ? ?Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? ? ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? ? ?_______________________________________________ ? ? ?Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? ? ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing ? list ? ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 06:37:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 12:37:32 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi James I am busy with my k350 mbts at the moment trying to copy Dan's plug, mould, product. I was thinking of using a section of poly carb sheet attached to the top of my fore mbt. Any comments? Thanks Glen On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:04 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > > I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and it had a leak. > Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak > was from the forward main tank. The nearly useless windows that I put on > the forward tank were leaking air. Not just a little bit which I could > have put up with it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting > normally. > > > > I pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it back in and it > didn't make any difference. > > > > It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think the problem > is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around > and tightened the bolts. It must have broken the seals. > > > > Anyway. I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main > ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be > sensible and call it off. > > > > So It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, > very disappointed. > > > > Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning. > > > > Hope these pics make it through. You can just see the air spilling from > the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first. > > > > Kind Regards > > James > > > > > ? > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89992 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156083 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 06:54:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 11:54:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Glen, If I were doing it again, I wouldn't bother with the standard MBTs at all. I would make saddle tanks like on the "Nemo" sub. For better surface stability and enclosed, so you don't burp air. Im going to change my boat over the winter to have tanks like that instead, or probably as well. Hank has done the same on his Gamma. Im not sure what you mean with the poly carb sheet attached to the top of the fore mbt? Is this for a deck of some sort? I paid a boatbuilding company to make the fibreglass tanks for my boat. They made the plug out of a load of blue builders foam sheets stuck together and shaped that. Then made the mould from that and layed the glass into it. The same as Dan H did I think. regards James On 8 July 2015 at 11:37, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James > I am busy with my k350 mbts at the moment trying to copy Dan's plug, > mould, product. I was thinking of using a section of poly carb sheet > attached to the top of my fore mbt. > Any comments? > > Thanks Glen > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:04 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> >> I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and it had a leak. >> Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak >> was from the forward main tank. The nearly useless windows that I put on >> the forward tank were leaking air. Not just a little bit which I could >> have put up with it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting >> normally. >> >> >> >> I pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it back in and >> it didn't make any difference. >> >> >> >> It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think the >> problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went >> around and tightened the bolts. It must have broken the seals. >> >> >> >> Anyway. I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main >> ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be >> sensible and call it off. >> >> >> >> So It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, >> very disappointed. >> >> >> >> Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning. >> >> >> >> Hope these pics make it through. You can just see the air spilling from >> the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first. >> >> >> >> Kind Regards >> >> James >> >> >> >> >> ? >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156083 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 07:39:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:39:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation In-Reply-To: <962261852.1047327.1436322169701.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14e6d76d7d6-182-4410c@webprd-m23.mail.aol.com> The bad news is that viewports don't make loud noises if they are properly annealed, correctly fit, and adequately lubricated. In fact, they don't make ANY noise. The only exception that I can think of is 1601. The dome viewport in that boat had a sweet spot on its orientation. If assembled with the marks aligned, it was silent. If installed differently, it would be noisy. Weird. I will say though that I have never used a viewport that landed on anything but steel (except for the JSLs). Maybe the plastic or rubber landing materials you are using is creating some noise? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2015 10:27 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Scott, thanks for filling in the details. Hank, all the best with the dive test /diving. Wonder if Vance has experienced those loud noises from shifting view ports? Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, I am starting slip testing tomorrow, I just bonded the gasket to the test chamber. As for testing the sub, I am using my barge with winch to lower the sub with my video camera recording. I will turn the radio on and talk to the sub from the surface. I will tell the sub the depth constantly and it will be recorded. Hope to do this next week, it is a big effort, I have to truck the barge 6 hr to the lake, then drive home, then come the next day with the sub. Maybe my wife will let me haul her car with the barge on the trailer so I can get home. :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/7/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Received: Tuesday, July 7, 2015, 6:01 PM Alan,When I was down diving with Karl Stanley earlier this year he showed me the veiwport that cracked. It was caused by him taking his sub to deep and the body warped putting side pressure on the veiwport. After that he derated his depth. This was on his first sub CBUG.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Date:07/07/2015 4:27 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Hank,I remember Karl Stanley (or someone else) saying he cracked a dome at depthdue to an unexpected contraction of the pressure hull.Just in case everything is not right; how about an unmanned dive!You could record any noises by putting something like your cel phone in the hullon record.Then synchronize a watch on the support boat & record what depths you havethe sub down at at what times. So if you get a big "Crack" on your recording you will be able to tell at what depth it happened.Easier said than done I know, but probably worth it.Cheers Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Alan, When my dome made the mystery noise, I was at 100 feet deep. That puts about 18 tons on the dome. I think it was either the straps were able to relax and find their happy place, or, the super cold water made the dome contract. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:00 PM Hank,I was looking at some Deep Worker photos. The dome retaining bandslook like they can be wound tight from a central point at the top.I am wondering if they pre stress these significantly so that there is less movementwhen they are compressed at depth. Also I commented on your retaining system when I first saw it, that I thought thevertical floatational force might move it upward, or the dome pivot out from the bottom.Perhaps you could exert more pressure on the dome with your clamping system? Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation Does the window seat have some sort of inside diameter edge? I would think if it does not, then its pretty much guaranteed to slip with or without grease - with grease being the quieter less-terrifying option. Best, Alec On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, Thank you for the input, I think I will just use weights like Alan says. I am making a fixture to simulate the EPDM gasket compressed under my dome. I want to test it with grease and without. I will squeeze the gasket in the fixture then push the top plate sideways with a pusher bolt to see if the gasket allows movement. I want to make sure my dome can expand and contract at depth. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] calculation To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Received: Monday, July 6, 2015, 9:08 AM Hank - the force developed is dependent on the stiffness of both the bolt material and of the specimen you're pushing on. You can't necessarily equate this directly to torque because of friction in the bolt threads and at the bolt end contact, and of course the elasticity of the bolt itself. You can only estimate it. There are many online tools for calculating the developed tensile force in a bolted connection, for example, but these consider only the bolt as the deformable element, and require an accurate estimate of coefficients of friction, and this will change with lubrication. As you complicate the system, it becomes more geometry dependent. A 1" - 8 UNC 2A thread is 8 threads per inch, so a set number of turns will give you the approximate axial displacement (0.125" per revolution - approximate because the bolt will change length under load). If you assume a rigid fixture, then your strain is equal to the overall change in length (calculated from # of bolt turns), divided by the gauge length (distance over which the length change occurs, which would be the length of your specimen measured between the rigid fixture and the end of your jack bolt). Compressive or tensile load is then calculated based on the modulus of elasticity of the specimen. Alternatively, you can measure the load (make the bolt or fixture into a load cell or strain gauge the specimen) and calculate the material properties. Load, axial displacement, modulus. You need any two to calculate the third. What are you making / testing? Sean On July 6, 2015 6:26:49 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi all, I need help, can anyone tell me how to calculate how much force a bolt can push or pull using a torque wrench to turn the bolt. So how many foot pounds of torque does it take to rotate a bolt to create 250 lbs push with a 1 in coarse thread bolt. I need to make a test fixture. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 08:15:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 05:15:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Message-ID: <1436357700.37345.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I did my testing this morning and found some scary results. I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi. The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch. When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch. When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position. When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result. My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 08:35:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 05:35:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: <1436357700.37345.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1436358911.62634.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Also, I was able to do a slide test of the port on the gasket. At 500 psi with grease the port slides easily. Without grease, I could not move the port. To move the port I simply shimmed between the loosened air fitting and the port. After pressurising the chamber, I simply tightened (threaded in) the air fitting and that pushed the port sideways. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 8:15 AM I did my testing this morning and found some scary results.? I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi.? The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch.? When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch.? When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position.? When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result.? My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 09:58:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 06:58:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Message-ID: <20150708065807.2C371610@m0005309.ppops.net> Hank, Is that one of my ports you're using to test ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 05:35:11 -0700 Also, I was able to do a slide test of the port on the gasket. At 500 psi with grease the port slides easily. Without grease, I could not move the port. To move the port I simply shimmed between the loosened air fitting and the port. After pressurising the chamber, I simply tightened (threaded in) the air fitting and that pushed the port sideways. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 8:15 AM I did my testing this morning and found some scary results.? I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi.? The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch.? When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch.? When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position.? When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result.? My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 10:09:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:09:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: <20150708065807.2C371610@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1436364580.18418.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, No, I have a whole set of brand new ports I am using. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 9:58 AM Hank,???Is that one of my ports you're using to test ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 05:35:11 -0700 Also, I was able to do a slide test of the port on the gasket.? At 500 psi with grease the port slides easily.? Without grease, I could not move the port.? To move the port I simply shimmed between the loosened air fitting and the port.? After pressurising the chamber, I simply tightened (threaded in) the air fitting and that pushed the port sideways. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 8:15 AM I did my testing this morning and found some scary results.? I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi.? The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch.? When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch.? When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position.? When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result.? My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 10:26:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:26:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Message-ID: <20150708072600.2C3712A9@m0005309.ppops.net> Do those new ones have the holes in them ? Replacements for the gamma viewports? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:09:40 -0700 Brian, No, I have a whole set of brand new ports I am using. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 9:58 AM Hank,???Is that one of my ports you're using to test ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 05:35:11 -0700 Also, I was able to do a slide test of the port on the gasket.? At 500 psi with grease the port slides easily.? Without grease, I could not move the port.? To move the port I simply shimmed between the loosened air fitting and the port.? After pressurising the chamber, I simply tightened (threaded in) the air fitting and that pushed the port sideways. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 8:15 AM I did my testing this morning and found some scary results.? I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi.? The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch.? When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch.? When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position.? When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result.? My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction.? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 11:54:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 08:54:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: <20150708072600.2C3712A9@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1436370853.33678.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> No, I bought them for another project that didn't get built.-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 10:26 AM Do those new ones have the holes in them ????Replacements for the gamma viewports? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:09:40 -0700 Brian, No, I have a whole set of brand new ports I am using. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 9:58 AM Hank,???Is that one of my ports you're using to test ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 05:35:11 -0700 Also, I was able to do a slide test of the port on the gasket.? At 500 psi with grease the port slides easily.? Without grease, I could not move the port.? To move the port I simply shimmed between the loosened air fitting and the port.? After pressurising the chamber, I simply tightened (threaded in) the air fitting and that pushed the port sideways. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 8:15 AM ? ? I did my testing this morning and ? found some scary results.? I bonded EPDM gasket ? material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 ? psi.? The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch.? ? When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to ? 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch.? When the ? pressure is released the gasket returns to its original ? position.? ? When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same ? result.? ? ? My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to ? create tiny ridges for traction.? ? Hank ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 12:45:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:45:53 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: <1436357700.37345.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436357700.37345.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is one reason why the durometer / hardness of the gasket material is important - dimensional stability. Most elastomers recommended for gasket service exhibit 100% volume displacement, meaning whatever volume is lost to the compression is displaced / extruded out the gaps. This is in contrast to something like cork, which will actually just take a (slight) compression set without extruding. Anyway, higher durometer elastomers will retain their shape and resist extrusion better, but the tradeoff is their ability to fill voids and scratches on the sealing surface. This is what lubrication is intended to improve, as by reducing the static coefficient of friction at the interface you allow the material to find its lowest stress state as it conforms to the microscopic geometry. This would be similar to the way we lubricate O-rings, I.e., just enough to make them shiny. You don't want so much lubricant film thickness on your gasket that you create hydrodynamic thin-film lubrication of the viewport at large, allowing it to easily slide across the bearing surface. Vance mentioned steel bearing surfaces, which works because 1) He was operating commercial vehicles with windows and window seats machined to exacting tolerances, 2) acrylic creeps under high pressures and will conform to surface, and 3) lubrication was used to facilitate the acrylic / steel interface finding it's low stress state at the microscopic level. Gasket thickness need only be large enough to accommodate the machining tolerance limits, scratches / pits on either surface, and differential contraction. They prevent local stress concentrations on the acrylic bearing surfaces where high spots exist. Gaskets will also provide some compliance which increases impact tolerance somewhat, but I don't think this is a common design consideration. In any case, as gasket thickness increases, so too must its hardness for the same dimensional stability. If your gasket is moving too much for comfort, make it a bit thinner, or the next available hardness. Sean On July 8, 2015 6:15:00 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I did my testing this morning and found some scary results. I bonded >EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 >psi. The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch. When I greased the >surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded >1/2 inch. When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its >original position. >When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result. > >My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny >ridges for traction. >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 13:22:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:22:56 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: <1436357700.37345.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436357700.37345.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good luck on your upcoming test Hank. How are you launching your barge once it gets there to the dive spot? While on the subject of gaskets and 0 rings, I have some subcon and blueglobe threw hulls. Sub Subcons of course have an O ring that sits in a groove and is screwed into a threaded ss plug that is welded into the hull. I have two concerns,1) how do I know when to stop tightening it as it won't be able to compress with depth and 2) I would think that the O ring might distort with the screwing motion as it snugs down. My preference would be to drill out the ss threw hull plug so that the threaded shaft of the Subcon would just pass threw and then put a backing nut on the inside to compress it but then the hull plug would have to be in my mind too thin to be able to get a nut on it. On the Blueglobes, how do you know when it is snugged enough without doing any damage to the fitting? Rick On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I did my testing this morning and found some scary results. I bonded EPDM > gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi. The > gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch. When I greased the surface of the > gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch. When the > pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position. > When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result. > > My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny > ridges for traction. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 13:22:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:22:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436376145.91981.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, I just did a test with a gasket 1/3 the thickness and it worked nicely. I feel in my case it is important to use a gasket to help protect against point loading. My feeling was, if the gasket is a bit thicker it would create better load uniformity. It sounds like that may not be the case. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 12:45 PM This is one reason why the durometer / hardness of the gasket material is important - dimensional stability. Most elastomers recommended for gasket service exhibit 100% volume displacement, meaning whatever volume is lost to the compression is displaced / extruded out the gaps. This is in contrast to something like cork, which will actually just take a (slight) compression set without extruding.? Anyway, higher durometer elastomers will retain their shape and resist extrusion better, but the tradeoff is their ability to fill voids and scratches on the sealing surface. This is what lubrication is intended to improve, as by reducing the static coefficient of friction at the interface you allow the material to find its lowest stress state as it conforms to the microscopic geometry. This would be similar to the way we lubricate O-rings, I.e., just enough to make them shiny. You don't want so much lubricant film thickness on your gasket ! that you create hydrodynamic thin-film lubrication of the viewport at large, allowing it to easily slide across the bearing surface.? Vance mentioned steel bearing surfaces, which works because 1) He was operating commercial vehicles with windows and window seats machined to exacting tolerances, 2) acrylic creeps under high pressures and will conform to surface, and 3) lubrication was used to facilitate the acrylic / steel interface finding it's low stress state at the microscopic level. Gasket thickness need only be large enough to accommodate the machining tolerance limits, scratches / pits on either surface, and differential contraction. They prevent local stress concentrations on the acrylic bearing surfaces where high spots exist. Gaskets will also provide some compliance which increases impact tolerance somewhat, but I don't think this is a common design consideration. In any case, as gasket thickness increases, so too must its hardness for the same dimensional stability. If your gasket is moving too much for comfort, make it a bit thinner, or the next available hardness. Sean On July 8, 2015 6:15:00 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did my testing this morning and found some scary results. I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi. The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch. When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch. When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position. When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result. My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 13:38:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 13:38:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14e6ebf425d-530-3adad@webprd-m58.mail.aol.com> Rick, The manufacturer will supply torque rates for installation. Once you get a feel for it, you'll probably find that it's somewhere in the region of finger tight + a slight graunch with a box wrench to snug it up enough to hold, but no more. Smooth surfaces and proper lubrication will take care of the o-ring. These things are designed to be used that way, remember. As to backing nuts, we liked them because you don't have to worry about moisture in the threads and, more importantly, you don't have to twist wires to install or remove them. The full tilt commercial thru-hulls are built long enough for this, and make them worth the money. If you've got the money, that is. Those puppies are pricey these days. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2015 1:25 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Good luck on your upcoming test Hank. How are you launching your barge once it gets there to the dive spot? While on the subject of gaskets and 0 rings, I have some subcon and blueglobe threw hulls. Sub Subcons of course have an O ring that sits in a groove and is screwed into a threaded ss plug that is welded into the hull. I have two concerns,1) how do I know when to stop tightening it as it won't be able to compress with depth and 2) I would think that the O ring might distort with the screwing motion as it snugs down. My preference would be to drill out the ss threw hull plug so that the threaded shaft of the Subcon would just pass threw and then put a backing nut on the inside to compress it but then the hull plug would have to be in my mind too thin to be able to get a nut on it. On the Blueglobes, how do you know when it is snugged enough without doing any damage to the fitting? Rick On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did my testing this morning and found some scary results. I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi. The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch. When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch. When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position. When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result. My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 13:36:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:36:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436377009.69843.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Rick, I will just back my trailer into the water and float the barge off. I put pipes under the tanks and she rolls right off. I have subcon penetrators that have an o-ring that tightens to a flat surface (squeezed) much like an ORB hydraulic fitting. I just hand tighten them to I would guess 30 ft lbs. If your in doubt, make a pressure test fixture. I test everything under full pressure. Dr Phil told me they test all the penetrators because some will fail. When they sell them, they do random testing not individual testing. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 7/8/15, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, July 8, 2015, 1:22 PM Good luck on your upcoming test Hank. How are you launching your barge once it gets there to the dive spot?While on the subject of gaskets and 0 rings, I have some subcon and blueglobe threw hulls. Sub Subcons of course have an O ring that sits in a groove and is screwed into a threaded ss plug that is welded into the hull. I have two concerns,1) how do I know when to stop tightening it as it won't be able to compress with depth and 2) I would think that the O ring might distort with the screwing motion as it snugs down. My preference would be to drill out the ss threw hull plug so that the threaded shaft of the Subcon would just pass threw and then put a backing nut on the inside to compress it but then the hull plug would have to be in my mind too thin to be able to get a nut on it. On the Blueglobes, how do you know when it is snugged enough without doing any damage to the fitting? Rick On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:15 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I did my testing this morning and found some scary results.? I bonded EPDM gasket material to my port test chamber and tested a port to 500 psi.? The gasket extruded about 1/16 of an inch.? When I greased the surface of the gasket and pressured it to 500 psi, the gasket extruded 1/2 inch.? When the pressure is released the gasket returns to its original position. When the same test is done without bonding, I get the same result. My next test will be with the bearing surface machined to create tiny ridges for traction. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 8 13:40:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:40:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gasket test results Message-ID: <20150708104045.1DB2B91B@m0048140.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 13:41:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 10:41:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: <20150709104109.2C3456B2@m0005309.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 13:54:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:54:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: Brian, Islanders of that vintage have extreamly thick hulls, like 3/4", and are built like a tank. Congratulations on the aquisition! Keith T Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 14:00:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 11:00:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: <20150709110032.2C3455B3@m0005309.ppops.net> Thanks Keith, it was a real score, I was the first one at the dock with cash in hand. Seems like a real solid boat. I may be sending you some Morse from the harbor ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:54:34 -0700 Brian, Islanders of that vintage have extreamly thick hulls, like 3/4", and are built like a tank. Congratulations on the aquisition! Keith T Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 14:10:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 11:10:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: <20150709110032.2C3455B3@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1436465456.4031.YahooMailMobile@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian. Details? Size etc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 15:30:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 12:30:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: You can operate /MM. Or be maritime rover for VHF contest and move from water grid square, to grid aquare! Keith T. hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Brian. Details? Size etc >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 22:06:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 19:06:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: <20150709190656.1DB537DF@m0048140.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 22:35:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 22:35:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Message-ID: <559F2F6F.3090604@psubs.org> Many thanks to Steve McQueen for his work coordinating and hosting the 2015 Convention. These events require much time coordinating all the major and minor details to make it enjoyable for those attending. Please join me in thanking Steve for his efforts in making the convention a success this year. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 9 23:55:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 20:55:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention In-Reply-To: <559F2F6F.3090604@psubs.org> References: <559F2F6F.3090604@psubs.org> Message-ID: <002601d0bac4$518e6ff0$f4ab4fd0$@telus.net> Agreed, many thanks, Steve, for all your efforts. My son's grad was that week so I was not able to attend, but I do look forward to seeing the photos and videos as they become available. Hopefully I will see most of you next year. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-09-15 7:35 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Many thanks to Steve McQueen for his work coordinating and hosting the 2015 Convention. These events require much time coordinating all the major and minor details to make it enjoyable for those attending. Please join me in thanking Steve for his efforts in making the convention a success this year. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 10 00:15:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 18:15:10 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention In-Reply-To: <559F2F6F.3090604@psubs.org> References: <559F2F6F.3090604@psubs.org> Message-ID: Thanks for all the work and coordination it must take to set this all up. I wished I could of made it. Rick On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Many thanks to Steve McQueen for his work coordinating and hosting the > 2015 Convention. These events require much time coordinating all the major > and minor details to make it enjoyable for those attending. Please join me > in thanking Steve for his efforts in making the convention a success this > year. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 10 08:10:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:10:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention In-Reply-To: References: <559F2F6F.3090604@psubs.org> Message-ID: Steve, WELL DONE! Thank You. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:15 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks for all the work and coordination it must take to set this all up. I wished I could of made it. > > Rick > >> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Many thanks to Steve McQueen for his work coordinating and hosting the 2015 Convention. These events require much time coordinating all the major and minor details to make it enjoyable for those attending. Please join me in thanking Steve for his efforts in making the convention a success this year. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 10 18:11:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:11:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Message-ID: <1436566293.78503.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I just added a video to YouTube it is under Hank Pronk, it is a launch video. It pays to have a nice long trailer. Also I did another 100 foot dive and my dome did not make a peep. I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 10 18:31:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:31:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1436566293.78503.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436566293.78503.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55A047AD.4080501@psubs.org> I'm surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to be lower. Looks like you are using a boat trailer with v-shape cross members. How did you adapt that for the sub? Jon On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I just added a video to YouTube it is under Hank Pronk, it is a launch video. It pays to have a nice long trailer. Also I did another 100 foot dive and my dome did not make a peep. I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 10 18:39:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:39:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <55A047AD.4080501@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1436567949.44688.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, All I did was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat board to the cross members for the sub to sit on. I also installed a walkway with hand rail. The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ground. I can still drop it 4 inches with drop axels. I can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the plank Gamma sits on so it is flush with the cross members. It seems good so far, I can unload without unhooking. The key is to have a long trailer, it also tows nicer. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM I'm surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to be lower.? Looks like you are using a boat trailer with v-shape cross members.? How did you adapt that for the sub? Jon On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I just added a video to YouTube it is under Hank Pronk,? it is a launch video.? It pays to have a nice long trailer.? Also I did another 100 foot dive and my dome did not make a peep.? I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 10 18:55:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:55:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: Brian, You could put a pekins 4-108 in the boat. Drinks about 1 gal an hour and bullet proof. My friend has one in his outislander and loves it! Keith T. Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 00:34:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 04:34:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1436567949.44688.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <55A047AD.4080501@psubs.org> <1436567949.44688.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <354143073.216366.1436589275857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cool Hank,nice clear water, look forward to the dive part of the video.Here is your link.MVI 0084 | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | MVI 0084 | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Jon, All I did was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat board to the cross members for the sub to sit on.? I also installed a walkway with hand rail.? The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ground.? I can still drop it 4 inches with drop axels.? I can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the plank Gamma sits on so it is flush with the cross members.? It seems good so far, I can unload without unhooking.? The key is to have a long trailer, it also tows nicer. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM I'm surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to be? lower.? Looks like you are using a boat trailer with v-shape cross members.? How did you adapt that for the sub? Jon On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I just added a video to YouTube it is under Hank Pronk,? it is a launch video.? It pays to have a nice long trailer.? Also I did another 100 foot dive and my dome did not make a peep.? I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 01:36:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 05:36:10 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <354143073.216366.1436589275857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <55A047AD.4080501@psubs.org> <1436567949.44688.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <354143073.216366.1436589275857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, looks great. Wish I could be there. On Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 9:38 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cool Hank, > nice clear water, look forward to the dive part of the video. > Here is your link. > MVI 0084 > > > [image: image] > > > > > > MVI 0084 > View on www.youtube.com > Preview by Yahoo > > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > > > Jon, > All I did was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat board to the cross > members for the sub to sit on. I also installed a walkway with hand rail. > The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ground. I can still drop it 4 > inches with drop axels. I can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the > plank Gamma sits on so it is flush with the cross members. It seems good > so far, I can unload without unhooking. The key is to have a long trailer, > it also tows nicer. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM > > > I'm > surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to > be > lower. Looks like you are using a boat > trailer with v-shape cross > members. How > did you adapt that for the sub? > > Jon > > > On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > I just added a video to YouTube it is > under Hank Pronk, it is a launch video. It pays to have > a nice long trailer. Also I did another 100 foot dive and > my dome did not make a peep. I am sure now it was just the > straps adjusting themselves. > > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 06:39:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 12:39:57 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi James Saddle tanks sound good ,but i have wondered how much they will effect towing . Thinking as a option of an removeable fibreglass skin say 300mm from pressure hull forming some kind of deck.? regards Glen On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:54 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Glen, > > If I were doing it again, I wouldn't bother with the standard MBTs at > all. I would make saddle tanks like on the "Nemo" sub. For better surface > stability and enclosed, so you don't burp air. Im going to change my > boat over the winter to have tanks like that instead, or probably as well. > Hank has done the same on his Gamma. > > Im not sure what you mean with the poly carb sheet attached to the top of > the fore mbt? Is this for a deck of some sort? > > I paid a boatbuilding company to make the fibreglass tanks for my boat. > They made the plug out of a load of blue builders foam sheets stuck > together and shaped that. Then made the mould from that and layed the > glass into it. The same as Dan H did I think. > > regards > James > > > On 8 July 2015 at 11:37, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James >> I am busy with my k350 mbts at the moment trying to copy Dan's plug, >> mould, product. I was thinking of using a section of poly carb sheet >> attached to the top of my fore mbt. >> Any comments? >> >> Thanks Glen >> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:04 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and it had a leak. >>> Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak >>> was from the forward main tank. The nearly useless windows that I put on >>> the forward tank were leaking air. Not just a little bit which I could >>> have put up with it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting >>> normally. >>> >>> >>> >>> I pulled it out and went around tightening them up. Put it back in and >>> it didn't make any difference. >>> >>> >>> >>> It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before. I think the >>> problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went >>> around and tightened the bolts. It must have broken the seals. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway. I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main >>> ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be >>> sensible and call it off. >>> >>> >>> >>> So It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, >>> very disappointed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hope these pics make it through. You can just see the air spilling from >>> the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first. >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind Regards >>> >>> James >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89992 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156083 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 08:29:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 05:29:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <354143073.216366.1436589275857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1436617799.37300.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, David, thanks I just loaded the dive video, kinda boring until 6.30 when the rookie pilot ran into an unexpected wall. The visibility is quite poor actually for this lake. It is weird, the visibility is great for the first 30 feet, then real bad for the next 50 feet and gets better at the bottom. Gamma is a real nice sub for cruising the bottom but needs work for the in close stuff. I need to add at least one more thruster. Gamma is in the shop with tanks off for a proper paint job and possibly another thruster. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 12:34 AM Cool Hank,nice clear water, look forward to the dive part of the video.Here is your link.MVI 0084 ???????MVI 0084View on www.youtube.comPreview by Yahoo?Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Jon, All I did was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat board to the cross members for the sub to sit on.? I also installed a walkway with hand rail.? The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ground.? I can still drop it 4 inches with drop axels.? I can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the plank Gamma sits on so it is flush with the cross members.? It seems good so far, I can unload without unhooking.? The key is to have a long trailer, it also tows nicer. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM I'm surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to be? lower.? Looks like you are using a boat trailer with v-shape cross members.? How did you adapt that for the sub? Jon On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > I just added a video to YouTube it is under Hank Pronk,? it is a launch video.? It pays to have a nice long trailer.? Also I did another 100 foot dive and my dome did not make a peep.? I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 08:35:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 05:35:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436618130.74026.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Glen, After converting to saddle tanks, I would never go back. The stability is remarkable, and in my case very robust. I used 100 lb propane tanks because I had them but also they are super tough and pretty light. As for towing, I can not comment, but I can say that my top speed seems about the same. More effort could have gone into mounting the tanks to be more streamlined, but I am very happy with the performance. You can see them real well on my launch video. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 6:39 AM Hi JamesSaddle tanks sound good ,but i have wondered how much they will effect ?towing . Thinking as a option of an removeable fibreglass skin say 300mm from pressure hull forming some kind of deck.?regardsGlen On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:54 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Glen,?If I were doing it again, I wouldn't bother with the standard MBTs at all.? I would make saddle tanks like on the "Nemo" sub.? For better surface stability and enclosed, so you don't burp air.??? Im going to change my boat over the winter to have tanks like that instead, or probably as well.? Hank has done the same on his Gamma.?Im not sure what you mean with the poly carb sheet attached to the top of the fore mbt?? Is this for a deck of some sort?? ?I paid a boatbuilding company to make the fibreglass tanks for my boat.? They made the plug out of a load of blue builders foam sheets stuck together and shaped that.? Then made the mould from that and layed the glass into it.? The same as Dan H did I think.?regardsJames? On 8 July 2015 at 11:37, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi JamesI am busy with my k350 mbts at the moment trying to copy Dan's plug, mould, product. I was thinking of using a section of poly carb sheet attached to the top of my fore mbt.Any comments? Thanks Glen On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:04 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,? I had a?failure of a day on Sat.? I put the boat?in, and it had a leak.? Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a complete failure, but the leak was from the forward main tank.? The nearly useless?windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking air.? Not just a little bit?which I could have put up with it, but loads.? The boat was diving quicker than venting normally.? ?I pulled it out and went around tightening them up.? Put it back in and it didn't make any difference.?It was strange as they have been perfectly ok before.? I think the problem is that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I went around and tightened the bolts.? It must have broken the seals.? ?Anyway.? I could have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ballast, but as I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be sensible and call it off. ? So It was in for about 10 minutes.? Pulled it out and was home by 8:30, very disappointed.?Spent the afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and moaning.?Hope these pics make it through.? You can just see the air spilling from the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down nose first.?Kind RegardsJames? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 09:19:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 06:19:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: <20150711061916.65959C58@m0048139.ppops.net> Keith, I like the extra space without the engine, thinking of putting a massive battery bank in there. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:55:34 -0700 Brian, You could put a pekins 4-108 in the boat. Drinks about 1 gal an hour and bullet proof. My friend has one in his outislander and loves it! Keith T. Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 10:51:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 16:51:29 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: <1436618130.74026.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436618130.74026.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank looks like saddle tanks the way to go,towing might be an issue though. Glen On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 2:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Glen, > After converting to saddle tanks, I would never go back. The stability is > remarkable, and in my case very robust. I used 100 lb propane tanks > because I had them but also they are super tough and pretty light. As for > towing, I can not comment, but I can say that my top speed seems about the > same. More effort could have gone into mounting the tanks to be more > streamlined, but I am very happy with the performance. You can see them > real well on my launch video. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/11/15, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 6:39 AM > > Hi > JamesSaddle tanks sound good ,but i have wondered how > much they will effect towing . Thinking as a option of an > removeable fibreglass skin say 300mm from pressure hull > forming some kind of > deck.?regardsGlen > On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at > 12:54 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi Glen, If I were > doing it again, I wouldn't bother with the standard MBTs > at all. I would make saddle tanks like on the > "Nemo" sub. For better surface stability and > enclosed, so you don't burp air. Im going to > change my boat over the winter to have tanks like that > instead, or probably as well. Hank has done the same on > his Gamma. Im not sure what you mean > with the poly carb sheet attached to the top of the fore > mbt? Is this for a deck of some sort? > I paid a boatbuilding company to > make the fibreglass tanks for my boat. They made the plug > out of a load of blue builders foam sheets stuck together > and shaped that. Then made the mould from that and layed > the glass into it. The same as Dan H did I > think. regardsJames > On 8 July 2015 at 11:37, > glen brown via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi JamesI am busy with my k350 mbts at the > moment trying to copy Dan's plug, mould, product. I was > thinking of using a section of poly carb sheet attached to > the top of my fore mbt.Any > comments? > Thanks > Glen > On Mon, Jul 6, > 2015 at 11:04 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > Hi All, > I had a failure of a day on Sat. I put the boat in, and > it had a > leak. Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a > complete failure, but > the leak was from the forward main tank. The nearly > useless windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking > air. Not just a little bit which I could have put up with > it, but loads. The boat was diving quicker than venting > normally. > I pulled it out > and went around tightening them up. Put it back in and it > didn't make any difference. It was strange as > they have been perfectly ok before. I think the problem is > that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I > went around and tightened the bolts. It must have broken > the seals. Anyway. > I could > have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main > ballast, but as > I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be > sensible and call it off. > > > > So > It was in for about 10 minutes. Pulled it out and was home > by 8:30, very > disappointed. Spent the > afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and > moaning. Hope these pics > make it through. You can just see the air spilling from > the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down > nose first. Kind > RegardsJames > ? > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 11:44:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 08:44:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1436629472.99532.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Glen, I don't think towing is a problem at all, just mount them properly to allow the water to pass. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 10:51 AM Thanks Hank looks like saddle tanks the way to go,towing might be an issue though.Glen On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 2:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Glen, After converting to saddle tanks, I would never go back.? The stability is remarkable, and in my case very robust.? I used 100 lb propane tanks because I had them but also they are super tough and pretty light.? As for towing, I can not comment, but I can say that my top speed seems about the same.? More effort could have gone into mounting the tanks to be more streamlined, but I am very happy with the performance.? You can see them real well on my launch video. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 6:39 AM ?Hi ?JamesSaddle tanks sound good ,but i have wondered how ?much they will effect ?towing . Thinking as a option of an ?removeable fibreglass skin say 300mm from pressure hull ?forming some kind of ?deck.?regardsGlen ?On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at ?12:54 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi Glen,?If I were ?doing it again, I wouldn't bother with the standard MBTs ?at all.? I would make saddle tanks like on the ?"Nemo" sub.? For better surface stability and ?enclosed, so you don't burp air.??? Im going to ?change my boat over the winter to have tanks like that ?instead, or probably as well.? Hank has done the same on ?his Gamma.?Im not sure what you mean ?with the poly carb sheet attached to the top of the fore ?mbt?? Is this for a deck of some sort?? ??I paid a boatbuilding company to ?make the fibreglass tanks for my boat.? They made the plug ?out of a load of blue builders foam sheets stuck together ?and shaped that.? Then made the mould from that and layed ?the glass into it.? The same as Dan H did I ?think.?regardsJames? ?On 8 July 2015 at 11:37, ?glen brown via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi JamesI am busy with my k350 mbts at the ?moment trying to copy Dan's plug, mould, product. I was ?thinking of using a section of poly carb sheet attached to ?the top of my fore mbt.Any ?comments? ?Thanks ?Glen ?On Mon, Jul 6, ?2015 at 11:04 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?Hi All,? ?I had a?failure of a day on Sat.? I put the boat?in, and ?it had a ?leak.? Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a ?complete failure, but ?the leak was from the forward main tank.? The nearly ?useless?windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking ?air.? Not just a little bit?which I could have put up with ?it, but loads.? The boat was diving quicker than venting ?normally.? ??I pulled it out ?and went around tightening them up.? Put it back in and it ?didn't make any difference.?It was strange as ?they have been perfectly ok before.? I think the problem is ?that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I ?went around and tightened the bolts.? It must have broken ?the seals.? ?Anyway.? ?I could ?have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ?ballast, but as ?I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be ?sensible and call it off. ?? ?So ?It was in for about 10 minutes.? Pulled it out and was home ?by 8:30, very ?disappointed.?Spent the ?afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and ?moaning.?Hope these pics ?make it through.? You can just see the air spilling from ?the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down ?nose first.?Kind ?RegardsJames? ?? ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 15:40:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 19:40:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1436617799.37300.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <354143073.216366.1436589275857.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1436617799.37300.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <312480760.474454.1436643642092.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Hank,Link...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92RV_V0PUQLooks like you couldn't back out of there too easily.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Alan, David, thanks I just loaded the dive video, kinda boring until 6.30 when the rookie pilot ran into an unexpected wall.? The visibility is quite poor actually for this lake. It is weird, the visibility is great for the first 30 feet, then real bad for the next 50 feet and gets better at the bottom. Gamma is a real nice sub for cruising the bottom but needs work for the in close stuff.? I need to add at least one more thruster.? Gamma is in the shop with tanks off for a proper paint job and possibly another thruster. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 12:34 AM Cool Hank,nice clear water, look forward to the dive part of the video.Here is your link.MVI 0084 ???????MVI 0084View on www.youtube.comPreview by Yahoo?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? Jon, All I did was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat board to the cross members for the sub to sit on.? I also installed a walkway with hand rail.? The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ground.? I can still drop it 4 inches with drop axels.? I can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the plank Gamma sits on so it is flush with the cross members.? It seems good so far, I can unload without unhooking.? The key is to have a long trailer, it also tows nicer. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM ? ? ? I'm ? surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to ? be? lower.? Looks like you are using a boat trailer with v-shape cross ? members.? How ? did you adapt that for the sub? ? ? Jon ? ? ? On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? > Hi All, ? > I just added a video to YouTube it is ? under Hank Pronk,? it is a launch video.? It pays to have ? a nice long trailer.? Also I did another 100 foot dive and ? my dome did not make a peep.? I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. ? > Hank ? > _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 15:46:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 19:46:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: References: <1436618130.74026.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1484296882.489700.1436644016810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Glen,Alec could tell you all about towing. We towed Snoopy about 4 miles, twice.Max speed 4 knots before Snoopy started to nose dive.?The problem will be more "Can I get in the sub" once I get there.And the saddle tanks will help with that.Alan From: glen brown via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. Thanks Hank looks like saddle tanks the way to go,towing might be an issue though.Glen On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 2:35 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Glen, After converting to saddle tanks, I would never go back.? The stability is remarkable, and in my case very robust.? I used 100 lb propane tanks because I had them but also they are super tough and pretty light.? As for towing, I can not comment, but I can say that my top speed seems about the same.? More effort could have gone into mounting the tanks to be more streamlined, but I am very happy with the performance.? You can see them real well on my launch video. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 6:39 AM ?Hi ?JamesSaddle tanks sound good ,but i have wondered how ?much they will effect ?towing . Thinking as a option of an ?removeable fibreglass skin say 300mm from pressure hull ?forming some kind of ?deck.?regardsGlen ?On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at ?12:54 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi Glen,?If I were ?doing it again, I wouldn't bother with the standard MBTs ?at all.? I would make saddle tanks like on the ?"Nemo" sub.? For better surface stability and ?enclosed, so you don't burp air.??? Im going to ?change my boat over the winter to have tanks like that ?instead, or probably as well.? Hank has done the same on ?his Gamma.?Im not sure what you mean ?with the poly carb sheet attached to the top of the fore ?mbt?? Is this for a deck of some sort?? ??I paid a boatbuilding company to ?make the fibreglass tanks for my boat.? They made the plug ?out of a load of blue builders foam sheets stuck together ?and shaped that.? Then made the mould from that and layed ?the glass into it.? The same as Dan H did I ?think.?regardsJames? ?On 8 July 2015 at 11:37, ?glen brown via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi JamesI am busy with my k350 mbts at the ?moment trying to copy Dan's plug, mould, product. I was ?thinking of using a section of poly carb sheet attached to ?the top of my fore mbt.Any ?comments? ?Thanks ?Glen ?On Mon, Jul 6, ?2015 at 11:04 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?Hi All,? ?I had a?failure of a day on Sat.? I put the boat?in, and ?it had a ?leak.? Not into the pressure hull, so it wasn?t a ?complete failure, but ?the leak was from the forward main tank.? The nearly ?useless?windows that I put on the forward tank were leaking ?air.? Not just a little bit?which I could have put up with ?it, but loads.? The boat was diving quicker than venting ?normally.? ??I pulled it out ?and went around tightening them up.? Put it back in and it ?didn't make any difference.?It was strange as ?they have been perfectly ok before.? I think the problem is ?that on Friday while I was prepping the boat for diving, I ?went around and tightened the bolts.? It must have broken ?the seals.? ?Anyway.? ?I could ?have possibly winged it by running with a reduced main ?ballast, but as ?I was heading into the open sea, I thought I best be ?sensible and call it off. ?? ?So ?It was in for about 10 minutes.? Pulled it out and was home ?by 8:30, very ?disappointed.?Spent the ?afternoon sticking them in with Sikaflex and ?moaning.?Hope these pics ?make it through.? You can just see the air spilling from ?the widows in the second picture and the boat is going down ?nose first.?Kind ?RegardsJames? ?? ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 16:59:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:59:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <312480760.474454.1436643642092.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1436648394.52158.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I kinda plowed in, the battery box and lead weight probably were in the mud. Also Gamma totally sucks in reverse. Hank------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 3:40 PM Thanks Hank,Link...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92RV_V0PUQLooks like you couldn't back out of there too easily.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Alan, David, thanks I just loaded the dive video, kinda boring until 6.30 when the rookie pilot ran into an unexpected wall.? The visibility is quite poor actually for this lake. It is weird, the visibility is great for the first 30 feet, then real bad for the next 50 feet and gets better at the bottom. Gamma is a real nice sub for cruising the bottom but needs work for the in close stuff.? I need to add at least one more thruster.? Gamma is in the shop with tanks off for a proper paint job and possibly another thruster. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 12:34 AM Cool Hank,nice clear water, look forward to the dive part of the video.Here is your link.MVI 0084 ???????MVI 0084View on www.youtube.comPreview by Yahoo?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? Jon, All I did was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat board to the cross members for the sub to sit on.? I also installed a walkway with hand rail.? The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ground.? I can still drop it 4 inches with drop axels.? I can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the plank Gamma sits on so it is flush with the cross members.? It seems good so far, I can unload without unhooking.? The key is to have a long trailer, it also tows nicer. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM ? ? ? I'm ? surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to ? be? lower.? Looks like you are using a boat trailer with v-shape cross ? members.? How ? did you adapt that for the sub? ? ? Jon ? ? ? On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? > Hi All, ? > I just added a video to YouTube it is ? under Hank Pronk,? it is a launch video.? It pays to have ? a nice long trailer.? Also I did another 100 foot dive and ? my dome did not make a peep.? I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. ? > Hank ? > _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 17:08:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 14:08:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1436648394.52158.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <312480760.474454.1436643642092.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1436648394.52158.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002601d0bc1d$b9d8c8d0$2d8a5a70$@telus.net> Until the quick stop it looked like you were running on rails, Hank. Is there any tendency to pitch up or down at speed? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-11-15 2:00 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Alan, I kinda plowed in, the battery box and lead weight probably were in the mud. Also Gamma totally sucks in reverse. Hank------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 3:40 PM Thanks Hank,Link...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92RV_V0PUQLooks like you couldn't back out of there too easily.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Alan, David, thanks I just loaded the dive video, kinda boring until 6.30 when the rookie pilot ran into an unexpected wall.? The visibility is quite poor actually for this lake. It is weird, the visibility is great for the first 30 feet, then real bad for the next 50 feet and gets better at the bottom. Gamma is a real nice sub for cruising the bottom but needs work for the in close stuff. I need to add at least one more thruster.? Gamma is in the shop with tanks off for a proper paint job and possibly another thruster. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 12:34 AM Cool Hank,nice clear water, look forward to the dive part of the video.Here is your link.MVI 0084 ???????MVI 0084View on www.youtube.comPreview by Yahoo?Alan ? ? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? Jon, All I did was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat board to the cross members for the sub to sit on.? I also installed a walkway with hand rail.? The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ground.? I can still drop it 4 inches with drop axels.? I can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the plank Gamma sits on so it is flush with the cross members.? It seems good so far, I can unload without unhooking. The key is to have a long trailer, it also tows nicer. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM ? ? ? I'm ? surprised at how high it sits in the water, expected it to ? be? lower.? Looks like you are using a boat trailer with v-shape cross ? members. How ? did you adapt that for the sub? ? ? Jon ? ? ? On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? > Hi All, ? > I just added a video to YouTube it is ? under Hank Pronk,? it is a launch video.? It pays to have ? a nice long trailer.? Also I did another 100 foot dive and ? my dome did not make a peep.? I am sure now it was just the straps adjusting themselves. ? > Hank ? > _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 18:15:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 15:15:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <002601d0bc1d$b9d8c8d0$2d8a5a70$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1436652922.5495.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim, When I hit the throttle full it will bring the nose up, I can follow the terrain with the throttle. If I leave the throttle at one speed it will not pitch up or down. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 5:08 PM Until the quick stop it looked like you were running on rails, Hank.? Is there any tendency to pitch up or down at speed? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-11-15 2:00 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Alan, I kinda plowed in, the battery box and lead weight probably were in the mud. Also Gamma totally sucks in reverse. Hank------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 3:40 PM Thanks Hank,Link...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92RV_V0PUQLooks like you couldn't back out of there too? easily.Alan ? ? ? ???From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 12:29 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ??? Alan, David, thanks I just loaded the dive video, kinda boring? until 6.30 when the rookie pilot ran into an unexpected? wall.? The visibility is quite poor actually for this lake. It is weird, the visibility is great for the first 30 feet,? then real bad for the next 50 feet and gets better at the? bottom. Gamma is a real nice sub for cruising the bottom but needs work for the in close stuff.? I need to add at least one more thruster.? Gamma is in the? shop with tanks off for a proper paint job and possibly? another thruster. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/11/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Saturday, July 11, 2015, 12:34 AM ? ? Cool Hank,nice clear ? water, look forward to the dive part of the ? video.Here is ? your link.MVI ? 0084 ? ???????MVI ? 0084View ? on www.youtube.comPreview ? by Yahoo?Alan ? ?? ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? To: Personal ? Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:39 AM ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ?? ? ? ? Jon, ? All I did ? was remove the boat bunks and bolt a flat? board to the cross ? members for the sub to sit on.? I also installed a walkway ? with hand rail.? The bottom of the sub is 15 inches off the ? ground.? I can still drop it 4 inches with? drop axels.? I ? can drop it another 1.5 inches by lowering the plank Gamma ? sits on so it is flush with the cross members.? It seems ? good so far, I can unload without unhooking.? The key is to ? have a long trailer, it also tows nicer. ? Hank -------------------------------------------- ? On Fri, 7/10/15, Jon Wallace via ? Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ? ? Subject: Re: ? [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? To: ? "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Friday, July 10, 2015, 6:31 PM ? ? ? I'm ? surprised at how high it sits in the water, ? expected it to ? be? ? lower.? Looks like you are using a boat ? trailer with v-shape cross ? members. ? How ? did you adapt that for the sub? ? ? Jon ? ? ? On 7/10/2015 6:11 PM, hank ? pronk via ? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? > Hi All, ? > I just ? added a video to YouTube it is ? under Hank ? Pronk,? it is a launch video.? It pays to? have ? a nice long trailer.? Also I did another 100 ? foot dive and ? my dome did not make a peep.? I am sure now it was just the ? ? straps adjusting themselves. ? > Hank ? > ? _______________________________________________ ? > Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 18:37:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 15:37:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber Message-ID: <1436654223.86331.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hello All, I am having trouble with my scrubber, I am using absorbent for an anesthesia scrubber (CarbOlime) . The scrubber works excellent when I use lung power. Lung power keeps the sub at 1200 ppm or less, with in seconds when I switch to the fan the level starts to climb to over 3000 ppm. Am I using the wrong absorbent. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 19:09:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 19:09:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: <1484296882.489700.1436644016810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1436618130.74026.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1484296882.489700.1436644016810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55A1A20C.5060406@psubs.org> If you've already gone to the trouble of making the fore/aft tanks per Kittredge style, I would add saddles but leave the existing tanks as well. Some saddles alone don't provide good fore/aft stability and this is where the Kittredge type come in handy. On 7/11/2015 3:46 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Glen, > Alec could tell you all about towing. We towed Snoopy about 4 miles, > twice. > Max speed 4 knots before Snoopy started to nose dive. > The problem will be more "Can I get in the sub" once I get there. > And the saddle tanks will help with that. > Alan > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 20:43:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:43:51 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: <20150709104109.2C3456B2@m0005309.ppops.net> References: <20150709104109.2C3456B2@m0005309.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55a1b84c.2f82460a.7d78.5725@mx.google.com> Brian, Have you a photo of it as the website you bought it off the pictures was taken down. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 July 2015 5:41 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Hi All, Just purchased a "support" boat for my sub ! That is, a place to chill in the evening at the islands ! https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5086894382.html Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 21:11:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 18:11:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber In-Reply-To: <1436654223.86331.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436654223.86331.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Hank We use 'Sodasorb HP' (high performance) in North America or 'SofnoLime' in overseas ops. We've been using Sodasorb since the 60's (in our oxy-helium recirculator helmets) and prefer it over brands. Less dusting, higher capacity per volume, reliable color shift as the bed becomes loaded, etc. No, I don't have shares in the Darling Company ! Phil -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 3:37 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber Hello All, I am having trouble with my scrubber, I am using absorbent for an anesthesia scrubber (CarbOlime) . The scrubber works excellent when I use lung power. Lung power keeps the sub at 1200 ppm or less, with in seconds when I switch to the fan the level starts to climb to over 3000 ppm. Am I using the wrong absorbent. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 11 22:07:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 02:07:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber In-Reply-To: <1436654223.86331.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436654223.86331.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1146879552.560962.1436666844257.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I am pretty sure I read in a sodasorb or similar pdf, that the medicalversion wasn't recomended for our type of application.I am not 100% sure though.Try emailing the manufacturer with the question.I emailed Molecular Products one time & they were extremely helpful.They insisted on using their computer program to analyse how many?times an hour the air in the hull had to cycle through the scrubber tokeep the CO2 within an exceptable range.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 10:37 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber Hello All, I am having trouble with my scrubber, I am using absorbent for an anesthesia scrubber (CarbOlime) .? The scrubber works excellent when I use lung power.? Lung power keeps the sub at 1200 ppm or less, with in seconds when I switch to the fan the level starts to climb to over 3000 ppm. Am I using the wrong absorbent. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 12:08:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 18:08:36 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive fail. In-Reply-To: <55A1A20C.5060406@psubs.org> References: <1436618130.74026.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1484296882.489700.1436644016810.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55A1A20C.5060406@psubs.org> Message-ID: I think Jon has a point,I suppose 4 knots will have to do, thanks Alan your Video's of snoopy inspired me to finish my project. allot to think on. Glen On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 1:09 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > If you've already gone to the trouble of making the fore/aft tanks per > Kittredge style, I would add saddles but leave the existing tanks as well. > Some saddles alone don't provide good fore/aft stability and this is where > the Kittredge type come in handy. > > > On 7/11/2015 3:46 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Glen, > Alec could tell you all about towing. We towed Snoopy about 4 miles, twice. > Max speed 4 knots before Snoopy started to nose dive. > The problem will be more "Can I get in the sub" once I get there. > And the saddle tanks will help with that. > Alan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 13:28:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 10:28:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Message-ID: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 16:39:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:39:03 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> References: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55a2d063.e30d450a.c00b.ffff9a3d@mx.google.com> Thanks Brian, Looking forward to seeing them. Yes there are all sorts of crazy people down here. Keeps things interesting tho. I have emailed Harold. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 13 July 2015 5:28 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Hi Hugh, I'll have to take some new pics ! I have a Kiwi friend here in Ojai that is going down to New Zealand for 5 months or so, his name is Harold Guy ( haroldguy at gmail.com) Send him a email ! he would love to check out your sub. He is involved in historic hard hat diving and was featured briefly in that hard hat dive mag a few years ago. But he is in the North Auckland area so I don't know if that is near you or not. Also, he was telling me about some blokes down there who are working on a rocket system to send 600 lbs. payload into orbit, he says the turbine used to feed the fuel is using electric power - which is a new development I gather. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:43:51 +1200 Brian, Have you a photo of it as the website you bought it off the pictures was taken down. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 July 2015 5:41 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Hi All, Just purchased a "support" boat for my sub ! That is, a place to chill in the evening at the islands ! https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5086894382.html Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 17:19:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:19:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: <55a2d063.e30d450a.c00b.ffff9a3d@mx.google.com> References: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> <55a2d063.e30d450a.c00b.ffff9a3d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I live opposite Harry Hugh, we dive together Cheers Keith Gordon Sent from my iPad > On 13/07/2015, at 8:39 am, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Brian, Looking forward to seeing them. > Yes there are all sorts of crazy people down here. Keeps things interesting tho. > I have emailed Harold. > Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 13 July 2015 5:28 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat > > Hi Hugh, > I'll have to take some new pics ! I have a Kiwi friend here in Ojai that is going down to New Zealand for 5 months or so, his name is Harold Guy ( haroldguy at gmail.com) Send him a email ! he would love to check out your sub. He is involved in historic hard hat diving and was featured briefly in that hard hat dive mag a few years ago. But he is in the North Auckland area so I don't know if that is near you or not. Also, he was telling me about some blokes down there who are working on a rocket system to send 600 lbs. payload into orbit, he says the turbine used to feed the fuel is using electric power - which is a new development I gather. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:43:51 +1200 > > Brian, Have you a photo of it as the website you bought it off the pictures was taken down. > > Cheers, > > Hugh > > > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 10 July 2015 5:41 a.m. > To: PSubs > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat > > > > Hi All, > > Just purchased a "support" boat for my sub ! That is, a place to chill in the evening at the islands ! > > > > https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5086894382.html > > > > Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 20:58:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 00:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> References: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1607809210.935323.1436749115160.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,they say the electric motors on the fuel feed are the size of a coke can& can develop 50hp each. They have some serious backers.New Zealand could be the first Country to put a sheep on the moon!Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Hi Hugh,??????????????? I'll have to take some new pics !?? I have a Kiwi friend here in Ojai that is going down to New Zealand for 5 months or so, his name is Harold Guy ( haroldguy at gmail.com)? Send him a email ! he would love to check out your sub.? He is involved in historic hard hat diving and was featured briefly in that hard hat dive mag a few years ago.? But he is in the North Auckland area so I don't know if that is near you or not.? Also, he was telling me about some blokes down there who are working on a rocket system to send 600 lbs. payload into orbit, he says the turbine?used to feed the fuel is using electric power - which is a new development?I gather.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:43:51 +1200 Brian, Have you a photo of it as the website you bought it off the pictures was taken down.Cheers, Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 July 2015 5:41 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat?Hi All,????????????? Just purchased a "support" boat for my sub !??? That is, a place to chill in the evening at the islands !?https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5086894382.html?Brian_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 21:42:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 18:42:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: <1607809210.935323.1436749115160.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1436751729.4947.YahooMailBasic@web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Maybe that's the way to rid ISIS. Pete -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/12/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, July 12, 2015, 7:58 PM Hi Brian,they say the electric motors on the fuel feed are the size of a coke can& can develop 50hp each. They have some serious backers.New Zealand could be the first Country to put a sheep on the moon!Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Hi Hugh,??????????????? I'll have to take some new pics !?? I have a Kiwi friend here in Ojai that is going down to New Zealand for 5 months or so, his name is Harold Guy ( haroldguy at gmail.com)? Send him a email ! he would love to check out your sub.? He is involved in historic hard hat diving and was featured briefly in that hard hat dive mag a few years ago.? But he is in the North Auckland area so I don't know if that is near you or not.? Also, he was telling me about some blokes down there who are working on a rocket system to send 600 lbs. payload into orbit, he says the turbine?used to feed the fuel is using electric power - which is a new development?I gather.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:43:51 +1200 Brian, Have you a photo of it as the website you bought it off the pictures was taken down.Cheers, Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 July 2015 5:41 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat?Hi All,????????????? Just purchased a "support" boat for my sub !??? That is, a place to chill in the evening at the islands !?https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5086894382.html?Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 22:30:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:30:07 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: <1607809210.935323.1436749115160.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> <1607809210.935323.1436749115160.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55A322AF.7030005@archivale.com> Makes a lot of sense. The conventional way to power turbopumps is with turbines running on some very dangerous monopropellant - high test hydrogen peroxide or nitrogen tetroxide for example. Going electric actually eliminates a major hazard. If they can get away with it. Marc On 7/13/2015 8:58 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Brian, > they say the electric motors on the fuel feed are the size of a coke can > & can develop 50hp each. They have some serious backers. > New Zealand could be the first Country to put a sheep on the moon! > Alan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > *Sent:* Monday, July 13, 2015 5:28 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat > > Hi Hugh, > I'll have to take some new pics ! I have a Kiwi > friend here in Ojai that is going down to New Zealand for 5 months or > so, his name is Harold Guy ( haroldguy at gmail.com > ) Send him a email ! he would love to check > out your sub. He is involved in historic hard hat diving and was > featured briefly in that hard hat dive mag a few years ago. But he is > in the North Auckland area so I don't know if that is near you or not. > Also, he was telling me about some blokes down there who are working on > a rocket system to send 600 lbs. payload into orbit, he says the > turbine used to feed the fuel is using electric power - which is a new > development I gather. > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:43:51 +1200 > > Brian, Have you a photo of it as the website you bought it off the > pictures was taken down. > Cheers, > Hugh > *From:*Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian > Cox via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Friday, 10 July 2015 5:41 a.m. > *To:* PSubs > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat > Hi All, > Just purchased a "support" boat for my sub ! That is, > a place to chill in the evening at the islands ! > https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5086894382.html > Brian_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 12 23:26:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 15:26:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat In-Reply-To: References: <20150712102821.1DB5EF5F@m0048141.ppops.net> <55a2d063.e30d450a.c00b.ffff9a3d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55a32fd1.62e4440a.1a2f2.ffffbe6c@mx.google.com> Might have known. I told him I knew a silly old bugger that plays with all that sort of stuff. Kind regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 13 July 2015 9:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat I live opposite Harry Hugh, we dive together Cheers Keith Gordon Sent from my iPad On 13/07/2015, at 8:39 am, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Brian, Looking forward to seeing them. Yes there are all sorts of crazy people down here. Keeps things interesting tho. I have emailed Harold. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 13 July 2015 5:28 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Hi Hugh, I'll have to take some new pics ! I have a Kiwi friend here in Ojai that is going down to New Zealand for 5 months or so, his name is Harold Guy ( haroldguy at gmail.com) Send him a email ! he would love to check out your sub. He is involved in historic hard hat diving and was featured briefly in that hard hat dive mag a few years ago. But he is in the North Auckland area so I don't know if that is near you or not. Also, he was telling me about some blokes down there who are working on a rocket system to send 600 lbs. payload into orbit, he says the turbine used to feed the fuel is using electric power - which is a new development I gather. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:43:51 +1200 Brian, Have you a photo of it as the website you bought it off the pictures was taken down. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 July 2015 5:41 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] support boat Hi All, Just purchased a "support" boat for my sub ! That is, a place to chill in the evening at the islands ! https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5086894382.html Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 13 12:47:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:47:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster mod Message-ID: <1436806031.84102.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I just built a propeller modification for my vertical thruster. I hate how the thruster pushes the sub downward so well but does not work as well pulling the sub up. The reason of coarse is, propellers suck in reverse! So I built a hub and mounted two props, one in the reverse direction to the other. The props are spaced 4 inches apart. Also when I mounted my new ballast tanks, I blocked the flow of water, so, I will mount the new thruster in a new location. Oh ya, I used two smaller props so I don?t over work the motor. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 13 14:57:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:57:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster mod In-Reply-To: <1436806031.84102.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1436806031.84102.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Now that "bi-directional" prop idea is out of the box and original! It would probably give a prop expert seizures just thinking about all the ways it would complicate the calculations, but I'm looking forward to hearing how well it works. Alec On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 12:47 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I just built a propeller modification for my vertical thruster. I hate > how the thruster pushes the sub downward so well but does not work as well > pulling the sub up. The reason of coarse is, propellers suck in reverse! > So I built a hub and mounted two props, one in the reverse direction to the > other. The props are spaced 4 inches apart. Also when I mounted my new > ballast tanks, I blocked the flow of water, so, I will mount the new > thruster in a new location. Oh ya, I used two smaller props so I don?t over > work the motor. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 13 15:09:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 15:09:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display Message-ID: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> I am going to move to complete computerized display of sensors (depth, temp, compass, etc). My original plan was to feed a bank of 7-segment LCD displays (see attached image) but the cost of moving to a tablet is going to be less than double and the tradeoff of a superior display is worth that extra cost. If I can find a reasonable priced 10 inch (or so) touchscreen display I could even use a raspberry-pi instead of a tablet. I may try this first since I already have a PI. I've got a prototype for the graphics available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9X5iX5pRjM which includes depth, vertical rate, pitch, roll, and compass heading modeled after an aircraft multi-function display (MFD). Note that in the demo code the depth and vrate are not synchronized, nor are the green up/down indicators associated with VRATE. I've set a yellow alert at 500 foot depth and a red alarm at 600 feet depth. I've also set a yellow alert at 60 feet-per-minute vertical rate and a red alarm at 90 feet-per-minute vertical rate. Remember Matilda? This is where her sultry voice will gently reinforce the prospect of impending doom if the visual alarms are missed (or ignored). I will be adding cabin/water temperature, humidity, cabin pressure, O2 and CO2 levels and a clock to the display as soon as I can figure out what I want them to look like. Might be simple dials, might be graduated bars...we'll see. Jon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mp-5.png Type: image/png Size: 62050 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 13 19:24:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:24:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display In-Reply-To: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> References: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1525592087.52610.1436829869988.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> That's looking good Jon,when I was going through the G.L. rules, they had about 50 inputs that they requireddisplaying. ABS is probably the same; so there is the potential to really add somebling to it if you want to get carried away.Cheers Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:09 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display I am going to move to complete computerized display of sensors (depth, temp, compass, etc).? My original plan was to feed a bank of 7-segment LCD displays (see attached image) but the cost of moving to a tablet is going to be less than double and the tradeoff of a superior display is worth that extra cost.? If I can find a reasonable priced 10 inch (or so) touchscreen display I could even use a raspberry-pi instead of a tablet.? I may try this first since I already have a PI. I've got a prototype for the graphics available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9X5iX5pRjM which includes depth, vertical rate, pitch, roll, and compass heading modeled after an aircraft multi-function display (MFD).? Note that in the demo code the depth and vrate are not synchronized, nor are the green up/down indicators associated with VRATE.? I've set a yellow alert at 500 foot depth and a red alarm at 600 feet depth.? I've also set a yellow alert at 60 feet-per-minute vertical rate and a red alarm at 90 feet-per-minute vertical rate.? Remember Matilda?? This is where her sultry voice will gently reinforce the prospect of impending doom if the visual alarms are missed (or ignored). I will be adding cabin/water temperature, humidity, cabin pressure, O2 and CO2 levels and a clock to the display as soon as I can figure out what I want them to look like.? Might be simple dials, might be graduated bars...we'll see. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 13 19:42:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:42:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display Message-ID: Jon, That would make a great open source project! If / when I get around to making a sub, I would like to have a fully monoritable interface via a tablet (most likely Android platform) of all relavent information at a glance. And even be able to operate control functions via the tablet too. Something like the PAD (personal access device) from Star Trek TNG Keith T. Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >That's looking good Jon,when I was going through the G.L. rules, they had about 50 inputs that they requireddisplaying. ABS is probably the same; so there is the potential to really add somebling to it if you want to get carried away.Cheers Alan > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:09 AM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display > > >I am going to move to complete computerized display of sensors (depth, >temp, compass, etc).? My original plan was to feed a bank of 7-segment >LCD displays (see attached image) but the cost of moving to a tablet is >going to be less than double and the tradeoff of a superior display is >worth that extra cost.? If I can find a reasonable priced 10 inch (or >so) touchscreen display I could even use a raspberry-pi instead of a >tablet.? I may try this first since I already have a PI. > >I've got a prototype for the graphics available at >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9X5iX5pRjM which includes depth, >vertical rate, pitch, roll, and compass heading modeled after an >aircraft multi-function display (MFD).? Note that in the demo code the >depth and vrate are not synchronized, nor are the green up/down >indicators associated with VRATE.? I've set a yellow alert at 500 foot >depth and a red alarm at 600 feet depth.? I've also set a yellow alert >at 60 feet-per-minute vertical rate and a red alarm at 90 >feet-per-minute vertical rate.? Remember Matilda?? This is where her >sultry voice will gently reinforce the prospect of impending doom if the >visual alarms are missed (or ignored). > >I will be adding cabin/water temperature, humidity, cabin pressure, O2 >and CO2 levels and a clock to the display as soon as I can figure out >what I want them to look like.? Might be simple dials, might be >graduated bars...we'll see. > >Jon > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 14 11:05:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:05:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] twin prop thruster Message-ID: <1436886327.7525.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Just came back from testing my twin prop thruster, success, it works amazing! I put a temporary support rod on the motor to lower it into the water off the side of my aul boat. It takes a lot of effort to hold the motor back in either direction. To me it feels like the thrust is equal in both directions. I cant believe how hard it pushes. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 14 12:32:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 12:32:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55A539B8.60006@psubs.org> A touch-screen (ie tablet) is all that's necessary to send commands to things like motors, lighting, etc. My initial thoughts were with a tablet as well but I've now been able to get the software working on a Raspberry PI running Linux. This opens up the possibility of obtaining a cheap touch-screen (needs to have HDMI port) and building the entire display for about half the price of a Samsung Galaxy. That interests me from the perspective of water infiltration getting where it shouldn't and destroying a nice tablet vs destroying parts worth half the price. However, the convenience of a tablet being used for both submarine environment interaction and other daily uses is also a desirable trait. Just a matter of personal choice I think. The "right" tablet needs to be selected however, a USB port is required. I know some of them don't have such ports. Jon On 7/13/2015 7:42 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > > That would make a great open source project! If / when I get around to making a sub, I would like to have a fully monoritable interface via a tablet (most likely Android platform) of all relavent information at a glance. And even be able to operate control functions via the tablet too. Something like the PAD (personal access device) from Star Trek TNG > > Keith T. > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 14 13:04:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 10:04:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display Message-ID: Jon, I'll have to check out the Raspberry PI, as I'm not familiar with it. I believe the Android platform is Linux based, at least the phones are. Something I discovered when investigating app designing.. I know there are a lot of, cheep android platform tablets on the market. I'm sure you have already investigated the options. Keith T. Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >A touch-screen (ie tablet) is all that's necessary to send commands to >things like motors, lighting, etc. My initial thoughts were with a >tablet as well but I've now been able to get the software working on a >Raspberry PI running Linux. This opens up the possibility of obtaining >a cheap touch-screen (needs to have HDMI port) and building the entire >display for about half the price of a Samsung Galaxy. That interests me >from the perspective of water infiltration getting where it shouldn't >and destroying a nice tablet vs destroying parts worth half the price. >However, the convenience of a tablet being used for both submarine >environment interaction and other daily uses is also a desirable trait. >Just a matter of personal choice I think. > >The "right" tablet needs to be selected however, a USB port is >required. I know some of them don't have such ports. > >Jon > > >On 7/13/2015 7:42 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, >> >> That would make a great open source project! If / when I get around to making a sub, I would like to have a fully monoritable interface via a tablet (most likely Android platform) of all relavent information at a glance. And even be able to operate control functions via the tablet too. Something like the PAD (personal access device) from Star Trek TNG >> >> Keith T. >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 09:55:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:55:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test1 Message-ID: <1043533456.1196628.1436968546555.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> test1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 10:11:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:11:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test 4 Message-ID: <55A66A24.2030209@psubs.org> test 4 From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 10:21:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:21:55 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] TEST - IGNORE Message-ID: <55A66C83.4090409@psubs.org> Sorry for the spam...having some mailing list problems and testing the software. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 10:38:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:38:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] TEST - IGNORE In-Reply-To: <55A66C83.4090409@psubs.org> References: <55A66C83.4090409@psubs.org> Message-ID: <55A67080.2020005@psubs.org> One more test.... On 7/15/2015 10:21 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sorry for the spam...having some mailing list problems and testing the > software. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 11:02:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 08:02:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] historic ab diving Message-ID: <20150715080223.1DB54D4E@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 11:12:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 15:12:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: email test In-Reply-To: <556A40CC.3020003@ohiohills.com> References: <556A40CC.3020003@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <1994899412.2639857.1436973135192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Email test. Cliff ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs list Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:59 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: Ultra-fast escape maneuver of an octopus-inspired robot http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.3984 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 11:14:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:14:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: email test Message-ID: <1dfc29.9c9b1ff.42d7d2d1@aol.com> Cliff, came through fine to me Jim T. In a message dated 7/15/2015 10:12:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Email test. Cliff ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs list Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:59 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: Ultra-fast escape maneuver of an octopus-inspired robot http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.3984 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. _http://www.avast.com_ (http://www.avast.com/) _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 13:41:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:41:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Smart phone sonar Message-ID: <1e4599.6bed0b3.42d7f54f@aol.com> This fish finder displays on your smart phone or tablet via wifi. I haven't reviewed it, but the concept has always been appealing to me for a cockpit with limited space. http://store12459.americommerce.com/store/p/27-SP200-T-BOX.aspx Jim T. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 13:46:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 07:46:09 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: email test In-Reply-To: <1994899412.2639857.1436973135192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <556A40CC.3020003@ohiohills.com> <1994899412.2639857.1436973135192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Got your test Cliff, did you get mine? Don't think they have been going threw lately. Rick On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 5:12 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Email test. > > Cliff > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* psubs list > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:59 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: > > Ultra-fast escape maneuver of an octopus-inspired robot > http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.3984 > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 13:53:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:53:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: email test Message-ID: Got it. Keith T. Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Got your test Cliff, did you get mine? Don't think they have been going >threw lately. > >Rick > > >On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 5:12 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Email test. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> ----- Forwarded Message ----- >> *From:* Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* psubs list >> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:59 PM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: >> >> Ultra-fast escape maneuver of an octopus-inspired robot >> http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.3984 >> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> http://www.avast.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 17:03:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:03:19 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: email test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ping.... On Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 10:53 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Got it. > > Keith T. > > Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Got your test Cliff, did you get mine? Don't think they have been going > >threw lately. > > > >Rick > > > > > >On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 5:12 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> Email test. > >> > >> Cliff > >> > >> > >> ----- Forwarded Message ----- > >> *From:* Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles < > >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >> *To:* psubs list > >> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:59 PM > >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: > >> > >> Ultra-fast escape maneuver of an octopus-inspired robot > >> http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.3984 > >> > >> > >> > >> --- > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > >> http://www.avast.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 18:17:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 18:17:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Photos Message-ID: All, I posted a few photos from the 2015 Psub convention. If other attendees want to send me their photos I can add to my collection. I have not added captions but the show the attending group, International Submarine Races, our technical meeting room, Alec's project visit. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1239373450/2015psubconvention/ Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 20:09:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 19:09:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Blackout Message-ID: I have been out of touch with PSUBS list for the last two months due to a combination of work and that my server not liking PSUB emails. I have setup a gmail account and asked Jon to use the new email. Hopefully I am now back in the loop. I began scanning the archive list threads in June and July and note I missed quite an interesting set of threads. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 20:19:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 20:19:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display In-Reply-To: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> References: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon, very cool. What application creates the new graphics? Steve On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I am going to move to complete computerized display of sensors (depth, > temp, compass, etc). My original plan was to feed a bank of 7-segment LCD > displays (see attached image) but the cost of moving to a tablet is going > to be less than double and the tradeoff of a superior display is worth that > extra cost. If I can find a reasonable priced 10 inch (or so) touchscreen > display I could even use a raspberry-pi instead of a tablet. I may try > this first since I already have a PI. > > I've got a prototype for the graphics available at > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9X5iX5pRjM which includes depth, > vertical rate, pitch, roll, and compass heading modeled after an aircraft > multi-function display (MFD). Note that in the demo code the depth and > vrate are not synchronized, nor are the green up/down indicators associated > with VRATE. I've set a yellow alert at 500 foot depth and a red alarm at > 600 feet depth. I've also set a yellow alert at 60 feet-per-minute > vertical rate and a red alarm at 90 feet-per-minute vertical rate. > Remember Matilda? This is where her sultry voice will gently reinforce the > prospect of impending doom if the visual alarms are missed (or ignored). > > I will be adding cabin/water temperature, humidity, cabin pressure, O2 and > CO2 levels and a clock to the display as soon as I can figure out what I > want them to look like. Might be simple dials, might be graduated > bars...we'll see. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 20:26:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 19:26:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Blackout Message-ID: I have been out of touch with PSUBS list for the last two months due to a combination of work and that my server not liking PSUB emails. I have setup a gmail account and asked Jon to use the new email. Hopefully I am now back in the loop. I began scanning the archive list threads in June and July and note I missed quite an interesting set of threads. Going to take me some time to catch up. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 23:25:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 23:25:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display In-Reply-To: References: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> Message-ID: <55A72410.1050704@psubs.org> Steve, An arduino microprocessor captures the data from various sensors and sends it to the display processor (tablet or PI) via serial communication. The graphics come from a programming language called processing which is basically a front-end to JAVA. I got this working on a raspberry PI which means a tablet is no longer necessary although it still may be worth spending the extra money for it. I was concerned the PI would not handle the load but the latest version has a 1ghz quad-core and proved to be very capable. Total cost will be around $200 with a 7-10 inch display. Cheaper if the display does not have touchscreen functionality but touchscreen will allow doing things like turning on lights, fans, acting as a safety ignition-switch for the motors. Add wi-fi and you could use your i-phone to operate the sub. The PI is easier on the pocketbook to lose if water infiltration or condensation gets to the electronics, but a tablet would be more versatile since you could use it for a lot more than just submarine operation. Then again, for the price of a tablet you could have a spare PI and display on board ready to plug in and go. Anyway, I'll make a final decision on hardware later. Just a matter of personal choice really...the software will work on anything although things like font selection are sometimes not portable between hardware. Jon On 7/15/2015 8:19 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, very cool. What application creates the new graphics? > Steve > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > I am going to move to complete computerized display of sensors > (depth, temp, compass, etc). My original plan was to feed a bank > of 7-segment LCD displays (see attached image) but the cost of > moving to a tablet is going to be less than double and the > tradeoff of a superior display is worth that extra cost. If I can > find a reasonable priced 10 inch (or so) touchscreen display I > could even use a raspberry-pi instead of a tablet. I may try this > first since I already have a PI. > > I've got a prototype for the graphics available at > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9X5iX5pRjM which includes depth, > vertical rate, pitch, roll, and compass heading modeled after an > aircraft multi-function display (MFD). Note that in the demo code > the depth and vrate are not synchronized, nor are the green > up/down indicators associated with VRATE. I've set a yellow alert > at 500 foot depth and a red alarm at 600 feet depth. I've also > set a yellow alert at 60 feet-per-minute vertical rate and a red > alarm at 90 feet-per-minute vertical rate. Remember Matilda? This > is where her sultry voice will gently reinforce the prospect of > impending doom if the visual alarms are missed (or ignored). > > I will be adding cabin/water temperature, humidity, cabin > pressure, O2 and CO2 levels and a clock to the display as soon as > I can figure out what I want them to look like. Might be simple > dials, might be graduated bars...we'll see. > > Jon > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 15 23:37:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 20:37:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004a01d0bf78$b06b09d0$11411d70$@telus.net> Thanks, Steve. The photos are great! Really interesting. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-15-15 3:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion; PSUBS Member Discussion Group Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Psub Convention Photos All, I posted a few photos from the 2015 Psub convention. If other attendees want to send me their photos I can add to my collection. I have not added captions but the show the attending group, International Submarine Races, our technical meeting room, Alec's project visit. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1239373450/2015psubconvention/ Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 08:37:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 05:37:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring sub Message-ID: <1437050267.15767.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I have realised that just because a system has worked for many years, that does not mean it is a good system. After all the stone age did not end because we ran out of stones. James has got me thinking about my wiring in Gamma. I am changing the grounding completely. In reality it is not a big job because I already returned a ground wire to the main ground on all items I put in the sub. So today I will correct this grounding issue. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 09:41:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 07:41:25 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display In-Reply-To: <55A72410.1050704@psubs.org> References: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> <55A72410.1050704@psubs.org> Message-ID: <8b046af0-eaba-40a0-b25e-8bba0d9166a6@email.android.com> Jon - sounds like an interesting project. I've never played around with any of those low cost / DIY solutions, but it sounds like they're rapidly closing the performance gap with true industrial systems. At work, I do a lot of data acquisition and embedded controller development using National Instruments hardware, particularly on the CompactRIO hardware platform, which combines deterministic real-time processing with FPGAs for high speed low level I/O. I'd probably still be inclined to go that route (real-time vs pre-emptive OS) for a critical application (life support, excursion control, etc.), but the barriers to entry are high. The last small system I built was about $4000 for the controller and FPGA, exclusive of I/O modules. Accessible technologies like BASIC stamps, Arduinos and Raspberry PI are generating a ton of impressive DIY projects these days, and might be perfect for a PSub. Sean On July 15, 2015 9:25:04 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Steve, > >An arduino microprocessor captures the data from various sensors and >sends it to the display processor (tablet or PI) via serial >communication. The graphics come from a programming language called >processing which is basically a front-end to JAVA. I got this working >on a raspberry PI which means a tablet is no longer necessary although >it still may be worth spending the extra money for it. I was concerned > >the PI would not handle the load but the latest version has a 1ghz >quad-core and proved to be very capable. Total cost will be around >$200 >with a 7-10 inch display. Cheaper if the display does not have >touchscreen functionality but touchscreen will allow doing things like >turning on lights, fans, acting as a safety ignition-switch for the >motors. Add wi-fi and you could use your i-phone to operate the sub. > >The PI is easier on the pocketbook to lose if water infiltration or >condensation gets to the electronics, but a tablet would be more >versatile since you could use it for a lot more than just submarine >operation. Then again, for the price of a tablet you could have a >spare >PI and display on board ready to plug in and go. Anyway, I'll make a >final decision on hardware later. Just a matter of personal choice >really...the software will work on anything although things like font >selection are sometimes not portable between hardware. > >Jon > > >On 7/15/2015 8:19 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Jon, very cool. What application creates the new graphics? >> Steve >> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles >> > > wrote: >> >> >> I am going to move to complete computerized display of sensors >> (depth, temp, compass, etc). My original plan was to feed a bank >> of 7-segment LCD displays (see attached image) but the cost of >> moving to a tablet is going to be less than double and the >> tradeoff of a superior display is worth that extra cost. If I >can >> find a reasonable priced 10 inch (or so) touchscreen display I >> could even use a raspberry-pi instead of a tablet. I may try >this >> first since I already have a PI. >> >> I've got a prototype for the graphics available at >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9X5iX5pRjM which includes depth, >> vertical rate, pitch, roll, and compass heading modeled after an >> aircraft multi-function display (MFD). Note that in the demo >code >> the depth and vrate are not synchronized, nor are the green >> up/down indicators associated with VRATE. I've set a yellow >alert >> at 500 foot depth and a red alarm at 600 feet depth. I've also >> set a yellow alert at 60 feet-per-minute vertical rate and a red >> alarm at 90 feet-per-minute vertical rate. Remember Matilda? >This >> is where her sultry voice will gently reinforce the prospect of >> impending doom if the visual alarms are missed (or ignored). >> >> I will be adding cabin/water temperature, humidity, cabin >> pressure, O2 and CO2 levels and a clock to the display as soon as >> I can figure out what I want them to look like. Might be simple >> dials, might be graduated bars...we'll see. >> >> Jon >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 10:15:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 09:15:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Message-ID: Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 10:41:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:41:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm interested in collaborating on this, and can offer to machine propotype housings. In particular, I'm interested in LED lights with a housing format as flat as possible - "surface mount" lights if you will, that could be mounted directly on the body of the sub without sticking out excessively. There are tons of off-the-shelf lights out there that can easily be oil filled and work just fine, but I have not found any flat ones yet. Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > Cliff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 11:25:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:25:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55A7CD00.30201@psubs.org> I agree we should keep it off the mailing list, but I can set up an FTP or WEB upload/download area on the psubs server if that is more convenient than dropbox. I want to build a project page anyway so we can track what work is being done and who's doing it to avoid duplicating efforts. Jon On 7/16/2015 10:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the > Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing > design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I > also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we > could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its > specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication > and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working > on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe > you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can > comment on it. > > Cliff > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 11:51:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:51:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I to like the idea of a flat housing that can be either mounted flat to a FRP shell or the mounted into a recess molded into the FRP. Cliff On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm interested in collaborating on this, and can offer to machine > propotype housings. In particular, I'm interested in LED lights with a > housing format as flat as possible - "surface mount" lights if you will, > that could be mounted directly on the body of the sub without sticking out > excessively. There are tons of off-the-shelf lights out there that can > easily be oil filled and work just fine, but I have not found any flat ones > yet. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my >> email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail >> email account to get back in the loop. >> >> I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux >> Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I >> have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test >> chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of >> the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a >> typical psubs application. >> >> We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, >> accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and >> testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. >> >> I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more >> lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. >> >> My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. >> Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on >> the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could >> come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 11:53:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:53:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55A7CD00.30201@psubs.org> References: <55A7CD00.30201@psubs.org> Message-ID: Sounds good to me Jon. The main thing we need is a place to share files and collaborate. On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I agree we should keep it off the mailing list, but I can set up an FTP or > WEB upload/download area on the psubs server if that is more convenient > than dropbox. I want to build a project page anyway so we can track what > work is being done and who's doing it to avoid duplicating efforts. > > Jon > > > On 7/16/2015 10:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my >> email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail >> email account to get back in the loop. >> >> I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux >> Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I >> have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test >> chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of >> the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a >> typical psubs application. >> >> We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, >> accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and >> testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. >> >> I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more >> lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. >> >> My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. >> Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on >> the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could >> come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. >> >> Cliff >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 12:58:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (jon4156 . via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 12:58:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] instrument and environment display In-Reply-To: <8b046af0-eaba-40a0-b25e-8bba0d9166a6@email.android.com> References: <55A40CE1.5010309@psubs.org> <55A72410.1050704@psubs.org> <8b046af0-eaba-40a0-b25e-8bba0d9166a6@email.android.com> Message-ID: Sean, It's always a balance of cost vs performance in the recreational arena. Fortunately these low cost microprocessors are fast enough to produce more than adequate response time for sensor data collection and information display. Even if it were as slow as 1hz refresh (it's much faster than that) that would likely be adequate for our particular application. Jon On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon - sounds like an interesting project. I've never played around with > any of those low cost / DIY solutions, but it sounds like they're rapidly > closing the performance gap with true industrial systems. > > At work, I do a lot of data acquisition and embedded controller > development using National Instruments hardware, particularly on the > CompactRIO hardware platform, which combines deterministic real-time > processing with FPGAs for high speed low level I/O. I'd probably still be > inclined to go that route (real-time vs pre-emptive OS) for a critical > application (life support, excursion control, etc.), but the barriers to > entry are high. The last small system I built was about $4000 for the > controller and FPGA, exclusive of I/O modules. > > Accessible technologies like BASIC stamps, Arduinos and Raspberry PI are > generating a ton of impressive DIY projects these days, and might be > perfect for a PSub. > > Sean > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 15:34:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:34:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 15:52:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:52:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > I'm on board with the LED light project. > Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED > flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. > I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED > lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > Cliff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 16 16:39:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 08:39:17 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring sub In-Reply-To: <1437050267.15767.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437050267.15767.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55a81672.8520460a.13fd6.ffffa2eb@mx.google.com> Hank, I love that stone age bit. Made my day. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 17 July 2015 12:38 a.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] wiring sub I have realised that just because a system has worked for many years, that does not mean it is a good system. After all the stone age did not end because we ran out of stones. James has got me thinking about my wiring in Gamma. I am changing the grounding completely. In reality it is not a big job because I already returned a ground wire to the main ground on all items I put in the sub. So today I will correct this grounding issue. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 17 17:45:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 14:45:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150717144520.8E5A3D51@m0005310.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 17 18:03:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150717144520.8E5A3D51@m0005310.ppops.net> References: <20150717144520.8E5A3D51@m0005310.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55a97b92.26ce440a.3905.3870@mx.google.com> About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use. Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 17 18:15:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 22:15:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <55a97b92.26ce440a.3905.3870@mx.google.com> References: <20150717144520.8E5A3D51@m0005310.ppops.net> <55a97b92.26ce440a.3905.3870@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2122971036.3094185.1437171308024.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh,I am sure they will use it in the next James Bond movie when?you get there.I am looking at using Life po4 batteries some time down the track.Glad you are doing all the pioneering work.Here is a good simple article on finding a parasitic battery drain.But I guess your sparkies are clued up? http://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh #yiv2321875590 #yiv2321875590 -- _filtered #yiv2321875590 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2321875590 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv2321875590 #yiv2321875590 p.yiv2321875590MsoNormal, #yiv2321875590 li.yiv2321875590MsoNormal, #yiv2321875590 div.yiv2321875590MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2321875590 a:link, #yiv2321875590 span.yiv2321875590MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2321875590 a:visited, #yiv2321875590 span.yiv2321875590MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2321875590 span.yiv2321875590EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2321875590 .yiv2321875590MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv2321875590 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv2321875590 div.yiv2321875590WordSection1 {}#yiv2321875590 About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems.? Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure.? With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown.? We have to have an idiot proof system.? Gets a bit depressing.Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh ?Hey Hugh,????????????????????? Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ???Brian? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 00:57:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 21:57:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150717215754.8E5A214B@m0005310.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 08:41:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 05:41:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod Message-ID: <1437223313.20598.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I had an idea this morning while considering the entanglement risk for a dive I am planning. A submarine could be built or refitted with an escape pod. The rear head of the hull could be removed and a ring welded much the same as if you were converting to a dome. A sphere could be built with a matching ring and hatch. The sphere would seal with a simple O-ring. If you need to escape the sub, just crawl into the sphere, close the hatch, wait for the sub to flood and release the sphere to float to the surface. I am sure this has been done somewhere on something. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 14:20:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:20:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: <1437223313.20598.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437223313.20598.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank A few of the Russian nukes were fitted with escape pods - most well-known was the 'Comsomolets' nuke sunk off Denmark, the crew got off the burning sub but the Captain and the 1st mate rode it down and then successfully escaped the sunken sub, but the pod failed on reaching the surface and both were lost. Phil -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 5:41 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod Hi All, I had an idea this morning while considering the entanglement risk for a dive I am planning. A submarine could be built or refitted with an escape pod. The rear head of the hull could be removed and a ring welded much the same as if you were converting to a dome. A sphere could be built with a matching ring and hatch. The sphere would seal with a simple O-ring. If you need to escape the sub, just crawl into the sphere, close the hatch, wait for the sub to flood and release the sphere to float to the surface. I am sure this has been done somewhere on something. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 14:46:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim Rudholm via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:46:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: References: <1437223313.20598.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here is the link about the sinking: http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/si-montgomery.htm JimR On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank > A few of the Russian nukes were fitted with escape pods - most well-known > was the 'Comsomolets' nuke sunk off Denmark, the crew got off the burning > sub but the Captain and the 1st mate rode it down and then successfully > escaped the sunken sub, but the pod failed on reaching the surface and both > were lost. > Phil > > -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 5:41 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod > > Hi All, > I had an idea this morning while considering the entanglement risk for a > dive I am planning. A submarine could be built or refitted with an escape > pod. The rear head of the hull could be removed and a ring welded much the > same as if you were converting to a dome. A sphere could be built with a > matching ring and hatch. The sphere would seal with a simple O-ring. If > you need to escape the sub, just crawl into the sphere, close the hatch, > wait for the sub to flood and release the sphere to float to the surface. > I am sure this has been done somewhere on something. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 14:50:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:50:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437245446.21600.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dr Phi-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Phil Nuytten via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 1:20 PM Hank A few of the Russian nukes were fitted with escape pods - most well-known was the 'Comsomolets' nuke sunk off Denmark, the crew got off the burning sub but the Captain and the 1st mate rode it down and then successfully escaped the sunken sub, but the pod failed on reaching the surface and both were lost. Phil -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 5:41 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod Hi All, I had an idea this morning while considering the entanglement risk for a dive I am planning.? A submarine could be built or refitted with an escape pod.? The rear head of the hull could be removed and a ring welded much the same as if you were converting to a? dome.? A sphere could be built with a matching ring and hatch.? The sphere would seal with a simple O-ring.? If you need to escape the sub, just crawl into the sphere, close the hatch, wait for the sub to flood and release the sphere to float to the surface.? I am sure this has been done somewhere on something. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 18:57:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 17:57:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: <53rxryu6mrwtqixa4urvylk6.1437258874908@email.android.com> Hello All, Just finished a series of dives at Beaver Lake Arkansas. As always with Corps of Engineers Lakes I got hassled alot by the rangers.? We did 5 dives. The deepest of which was 85 feet. Everything functioned well except on the last dive there was so much condensation and moister, I started having electrical issues with a thruster. I believe it is from moister in the fuse block. I deffenetly have to adapt to making sure everything is sealed and water PROOF not water resistand. The visibility was better than I am used to in Kansas, but was not the best because of so much rain lately. Visibility was about 10 feet until we got down to 70 feet then it cleared up to about 20 feet of visibility. I had a support dive take footage, so I will try to get that loaded up soon. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 19:09:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150717215754.8E5A214B@m0005310.ppops.net> References: <20150717215754.8E5A214B@m0005310.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55aadc9c.8724460a.1dcb.2930@mx.google.com> Hi Brian, No. This one. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200 About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use. Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 189748 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 19:14:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 19:14:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: <1abc22.4654d223.42dc37d4@aol.com> Scott, Did you happen to dive the Monte Ne ruins at the lake? Vis might have been pretty bad there since it's in a shallow portion, and there could have been some risk of bumping into something hard. Jim In a message dated 7/18/2015 5:58:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hello All, Just finished a series of dives at Beaver Lake Arkansas. As always with Corps of Engineers Lakes I got hassled alot by the rangers. We did 5 dives. The deepest of which was 85 feet. Everything functioned well except on the last dive there was so much condensation and moister, I started having electrical issues with a thruster. I believe it is from moister in the fuse block. I deffenetly have to adapt to making sure everything is sealed and water PROOF not water resistand. The visibility was better than I am used to in Kansas, but was not the best because of so much rain lately. Visibility was about 10 feet until we got down to 70 feet then it cleared up to about 20 feet of visibility. I had a support dive take footage, so I will try to get that loaded up soon. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 19:39:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 18:39:20 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <55aadc9c.8724460a.1dcb.2930@mx.google.com> References: <20150717215754.8E5A214B@m0005310.ppops.net> <55aadc9c.8724460a.1dcb.2930@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Wow, she looks great! I know it has been a frustrating hall to get to this point. Hang in there. Keep dreaming about that first real dive! At some point it would be helpful to us that planning on converting to Lithium Batteries at some point , to hear your lessons learned on the batteries and BMS to keep us from running into some of the issues. I assume you have an main contactor that electrical isolates the main battery bank from all boat systems. With this contactor open, you still are getting draw offs? Cliff On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Brian, > > No. > > This one. > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > > > Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200 > > About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery > management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use. > > Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With > various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to > turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result > that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets > a bit depressing. > > Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ > mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. > *To:* PSubs > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > > > Hey Hugh, > > Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? > > > > Brian _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 189748 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 19:41:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 19:41:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report In-Reply-To: <53rxryu6mrwtqixa4urvylk6.1437258874908@email.android.com> References: <53rxryu6mrwtqixa4urvylk6.1437258874908@email.android.com> Message-ID: <449CD3B9-84A9-4B21-BF1D-5871672C382F@gmail.com> I have a friend who is a serious expert on ship electronics, and owns a company that designs bridge controls for navy ships. When he was designing Snoopy's electronics he asked whether I wanted heaters in the electrical enclosures, to which my response was... Huh? It turns out they put heaters inside the electrical boxes and leave them on 24x7 to prevent condensation. Best, Alec > On Jul 18, 2015, at 6:57 PM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello All, > Just finished a series of dives at Beaver Lake Arkansas. As always with Corps of Engineers Lakes I got hassled alot by the rangers. > We did 5 dives. The deepest of which was 85 feet. Everything functioned well except on the last dive there was so much condensation and moister, I started having electrical issues with a thruster. I believe it is from moister in the fuse block. I deffenetly have to adapt to making sure everything is sealed and water PROOF not water resistand. > The visibility was better than I am used to in Kansas, but was not the best because of so much rain lately. Visibility was about 10 feet until we got down to 70 feet then it cleared up to about 20 feet of visibility. I had a support dive take footage, so I will try to get that loaded up soon. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 21:07:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 13:07:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: References: <20150717215754.8E5A214B@m0005310.ppops.net> <55aadc9c.8724460a.1dcb.2930@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55aaf873.2486460a.260c.ffffad78@mx.google.com> Hi Cliff, Yes I have main contactors and switchable fuse/breakers but when some numpty leaves the switch on it is expensive. Not only that but the BMS boards feed off each other and need power. The other is the usual having batteries in parallel and them talking to each other. If you are constantly using the batteries and recharging them then only half the issues but these things have a tendency of sitting around during the winter etc. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 11:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, she looks great! I know it has been a frustrating hall to get to this point. Hang in there. Keep dreaming about that first real dive! At some point it would be helpful to us that planning on converting to Lithium Batteries at some point , to hear your lessons learned on the batteries and BMS to keep us from running into some of the issues. I assume you have an main contactor that electrical isolates the main battery bank from all boat systems. With this contactor open, you still are getting draw offs? Cliff On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Brian, No. This one. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200 About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use. Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 189748 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 18 23:59:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:59:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150718205901.1DAB9F00@m0005311.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 189748 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 19 00:51:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 16:51:02 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150718205901.1DAB9F00@m0005311.ppops.net> References: <20150718205901.1DAB9F00@m0005311.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55ab2cc0.2314460a.119b.ffffd07f@mx.google.com> Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs. Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200 Hi Brian, No. This one. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200 About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use. Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 189748 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 19 11:39:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:39:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <55ab2cc0.2314460a.119b.ffffd07f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1437320363.54028.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. ?Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh ?Wow, that does look nice.? Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere?? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ??? Depth??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh?Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems.? Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure.? With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown.? We have to have an idiot proof system.? Gets a bit depressing.Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh?Hey Hugh,????????????????????? Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ???Brian?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 19 15:41:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 12:41:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150719124141.8E5BCCFA@m0005310.ppops.net> Hey Hugh, Do you have an official launch date? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:39:23 -0700 Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. ?Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh ?Wow, that does look nice.? Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere?? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ??? Depth??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh?Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems.? Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure.? With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown.? We have to have an idiot proof system.? Gets a bit depressing.Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh?Hey Hugh,????????????????????? Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ???Brian?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 19 16:43:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:43:35 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150719124141.8E5BCCFA@m0005310.ppops.net> References: <20150719124141.8E5BCCFA@m0005310.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55ac0c01.c67c420a.6f0f9.152c@mx.google.com> Yes several dates all in the past. Too complicated. Looks good but nobody home. My Blonde! Hugh. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 7:42 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Do you have an official launch date? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:39:23 -0700 Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 19 16:48:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <1437320363.54028.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <55ab2cc0.2314460a.119b.ffffd07f@mx.google.com> <1437320363.54028.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55ac0d22.215e460a.c0be3.0d27@mx.google.com> Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 19 17:06:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:06:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150719140619.1DAD7CDF@m0005296.ppops.net> How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 19 21:53:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150719140619.1DAD7CDF@m0005296.ppops.net> References: <20150719140619.1DAD7CDF@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55ac5499.c136460a.5a56.406b@mx.google.com> Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 20 00:26:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 21:26:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150719212627.1DAA531C@m0005298.ppops.net> Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 20 10:23:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:23:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: <20150720072329.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.81ec8e8ff4.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 20 11:33:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:33:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod Message-ID: <1437406437.32364.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The concept of an escape pod must be good, DW subs and Alvin have jettisoning occupant compartments. Considering the low cost and ease of modification, Gamma is getting the upgrade. I am waiting for a quote from Edmonton Exchanger for the Sphere. I will build the escape pod and pressure test it to 1,000 feet before I take Gamma out of service. I figure it will take a month to make the actual conversion. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 20 12:20:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:20:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: <1437406437.32364.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437406437.32364.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I only know one person who would consider that a low cost, quick-turnaround upgrade! It would take me a year or two. Alec On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The concept of an escape pod must be good, DW subs and Alvin have > jettisoning occupant compartments. Considering the low cost and ease of > modification, Gamma is getting the upgrade. I am waiting for a quote from > Edmonton Exchanger for the Sphere. I will build the escape pod and > pressure test it to 1,000 feet before I take Gamma out of service. I > figure it will take a month to make the actual conversion. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 20 12:42:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:42:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report In-Reply-To: <53rxryu6mrwtqixa4urvylk6.1437258874908@email.android.com> References: <53rxryu6mrwtqixa4urvylk6.1437258874908@email.android.com> Message-ID: <002501d0c30b$020ae770$0620b650$@telus.net> Scott, What kind of hassles did the rangers give you? Was it because they had never experienced a submarine diving in their lake, or was it because the boat was from out of state? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-18-15 3:58 PM To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hello All, Just finished a series of dives at Beaver Lake Arkansas. As always with Corps of Engineers Lakes I got hassled alot by the rangers. We did 5 dives. The deepest of which was 85 feet. Everything functioned well except on the last dive there was so much condensation and moister, I started having electrical issues with a thruster. I believe it is from moister in the fuse block. I deffenetly have to adapt to making sure everything is sealed and water PROOF not water resistand. The visibility was better than I am used to in Kansas, but was not the best because of so much rain lately. Visibility was about 10 feet until we got down to 70 feet then it cleared up to about 20 feet of visibility. I had a support dive take footage, so I will try to get that loaded up soon. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 20 13:47:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:47:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: <20150720104710.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f562c8d006.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 20 17:38:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 14:38:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report In-Reply-To: <20150720104710.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f562c8d006.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1437428330.19167.YahooMailBasic@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Well, at least the economy is booming and the country isn't overrun with 30 million foreign scofflaws. -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/20/15, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Monday, July 20, 2015, 12:47 PM Tim, ? They had never dealt with a submarine. They thought I was a terrorist that was going to take a registered?bright yellow submarine in the middle of the day light to blow up the dam with a invisible torpedo.?Only reason they let me off is because I forgot my turban and my AK-47. haha.? It basically translates as they don't have enough to do and they have to find some way to get their authority high for the day. Sometimes?writing tickets for people with expired park tags just isn't enough. Our tax dollars hard at work. haha? ? Thanks, Scott Waters? ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, July 20, 2015 9:42 am To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper _filtered #yiv6135114452 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} #yiv6135114452 _filtered #yiv6135114452 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper #yiv6135114452 p.yiv6135114452MsoNormal, #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper li.yiv6135114452MsoNormal, #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper div.yiv6135114452MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper a:link, #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv6135114452MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper a:visited, #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv6135114452MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper span.yiv6135114452EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper .yiv6135114452MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv6135114452 _filtered #yiv6135114452 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv6135114452 #yiv6135114452wmQuoteWrapper div.yiv6135114452WordSection1 {} Scott, ? What kind of hassles did the rangers give you?? Was it because they had never experienced a submarine diving in their lake, or was it because the boat was from out of state? ? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-18-15 3:58 PM To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report ? Hello All, Just finished a series of dives at Beaver Lake Arkansas. As always with Corps of Engineers Lakes I got hassled alot by the rangers.? We did 5 dives. The deepest of which was 85 feet. Everything functioned well except on the last dive there was so much condensation and moister, I started having electrical issues with a thruster. I believe it is from moister in the fuse block. I deffenetly have to adapt to making sure everything is sealed and water PROOF not water resistand. The visibility was better than I am used to in Kansas, but was not the best because of so much rain lately. Visibility was about 10 feet until we got down to 70 feet then it cleared up to about 20 feet of visibility. I had a support dive take footage, so I will try to get that loaded up soon. Thanks, Scott Waters ? ? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 05:37:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:37:36 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Message-ID: Hi All http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea. Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More of an insult than a problem. Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 08:13:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:13:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the sub overall is very very good looking and neat as can be inside. It was interesting how the exterior shots picked up the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get tangled up in weeds, and even though you have what's probably the best faired K350 these boats tend to drag the stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All > > > http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI > > Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of > dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you > get the idea. > > Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The > poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More of an > insult than a problem. > > Kind Regards > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 08:23:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:23:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437481393.70196.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi James, Very nice! the interior of your sub is just amazing. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/21/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 4:37 AM Hi All? http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI ?Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week.? Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea.?Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water.? More of an insult than a problem.?Kind RegardsJames? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 09:01:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:01:12 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I didn't realise I was quite so close to the bottom. With the slight distortion from the bow dome, I thought I was further off. And, maybe I should be using the side thrusters but I find them awkward to use due to the controls not being on the handles. Im going to change that, probably this weekend. On 21 July 2015 at 13:13, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the sub overall is very very > good looking and neat as can be inside. It was interesting how the exterior > shots picked up the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through > stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get tangled up in > weeds, and even though you have what's probably the best faired K350 these > boats tend to drag the stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly > enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> >> http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI >> >> Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of >> dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you >> get the idea. >> >> Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. >> The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More >> of an insult than a problem. >> >> Kind Regards >> James >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 09:09:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:09:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've found it a 100% improvement to make those side handles lockable. You just lock them vertical when diving and use them purely for regulating depth, while driving around on the stern thruster exclusively. It frees up your hands. Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I didn't realise I was quite so close to the bottom. With the slight > distortion from the bow dome, I thought I was further off. And, maybe I > should be using the side thrusters but I find them awkward to use due to > the controls not being on the handles. Im going to change that, probably > this weekend. > > On 21 July 2015 at 13:13, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the sub overall is very very >> good looking and neat as can be inside. It was interesting how the exterior >> shots picked up the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through >> stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get tangled up in >> weeds, and even though you have what's probably the best faired K350 these >> boats tend to drag the stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly >> enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi All >>> >>> >>> http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI >>> >>> Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of >>> dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you >>> get the idea. >>> >>> Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. >>> The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More >>> of an insult than a problem. >>> >>> Kind Regards >>> James >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 09:35:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:35:57 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hmmm, interesting. Mine are lockable already, I just haven't got the motor controls on the handles. But I could probably use them like you describe already. Maybe I should try it before I change things. I was intending to remove the PWM controllers and just have relays, with a simple on\off button on each handle. I think snoopy had that to start with? I'd have the speed control on the rear thruster of course. On 21 July 2015 at 14:09, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I've found it a 100% improvement to make those side handles lockable. You > just lock them vertical when diving and use them purely for regulating > depth, while driving around on the stern thruster exclusively. It frees up > your hands. > > Alec > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> I didn't realise I was quite so close to the bottom. With the slight >> distortion from the bow dome, I thought I was further off. And, maybe I >> should be using the side thrusters but I find them awkward to use due to >> the controls not being on the handles. Im going to change that, probably >> this weekend. >> >> On 21 July 2015 at 13:13, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the sub overall is very very >>> good looking and neat as can be inside. It was interesting how the exterior >>> shots picked up the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through >>> stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get tangled up in >>> weeds, and even though you have what's probably the best faired K350 these >>> boats tend to drag the stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly >>> enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All >>>> >>>> >>>> http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI >>>> >>>> Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of >>>> dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you >>>> get the idea. >>>> >>>> Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. >>>> The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More >>>> of an insult than a problem. >>>> >>>> Kind Regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 11:15:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:15:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437491714.13755.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, Gamma has no speed control on the vertical thruster and that seems to work good. Also if I saw it right, you were still venting air after you were under water. You must be over weight, your gonna end up with an air bubble. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/21/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 8:35 AM hmmm, interesting.? Mine are lockable already, I just haven't got the motor controls on the handles.? But I could probably use them like you describe already.? Maybe I should try it before I change things.? I was intending to remove the PWM controllers and just have relays, with a simple on\off button on each handle.? I think snoopy had that to start with?? I'd have the speed control on the rear thruster of course. On 21 July 2015 at 14:09, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've found it a 100% improvement to make those side handles lockable. You just lock them vertical when diving and use them purely for regulating depth, while driving around on the stern thruster exclusively. It frees up your hands. Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I didn't realise I was quite so close to the bottom.? With the slight distortion from the bow dome, I thought I was further off.? And, maybe I should be using the side thrusters but I find them awkward to use due to the controls not being on the handles.? Im going to change that, probably this weekend. On 21 July 2015 at 13:13, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the sub overall is very very good looking and neat as can be inside. It was interesting how the exterior shots picked up the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get tangled up in weeds, and even though you have what's probably the best faired K350 these boats tend to drag the stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All? http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI ?Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week.? Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea.?Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water.? More of an insult than a problem.?Kind RegardsJames? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 11:18:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:18:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437491926.72200.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, Also I use a reversing relay from electric winches. They work fabulous and are real compact. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/21/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 8:35 AM hmmm, interesting.? Mine are lockable already, I just haven't got the motor controls on the handles.? But I could probably use them like you describe already.? Maybe I should try it before I change things.? I was intending to remove the PWM controllers and just have relays, with a simple on\off button on each handle.? I think snoopy had that to start with?? I'd have the speed control on the rear thruster of course. On 21 July 2015 at 14:09, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've found it a 100% improvement to make those side handles lockable. You just lock them vertical when diving and use them purely for regulating depth, while driving around on the stern thruster exclusively. It frees up your hands. Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I didn't realise I was quite so close to the bottom.? With the slight distortion from the bow dome, I thought I was further off.? And, maybe I should be using the side thrusters but I find them awkward to use due to the controls not being on the handles.? Im going to change that, probably this weekend. On 21 July 2015 at 13:13, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the sub overall is very very good looking and neat as can be inside. It was interesting how the exterior shots picked up the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get tangled up in weeds, and even though you have what's probably the best faired K350 these boats tend to drag the stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All? http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI ?Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week.? Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea.?Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water.? More of an insult than a problem.?Kind RegardsJames? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 11:38:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:38:59 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <1437491714.13755.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437491714.13755.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, Yes, was a bit heavy. I will sort that out for next time. But I prefer that to buffooning about trying to get under. Another problem with those 1/2 inch vent lines. Can you let me know the reversing relays that you use? Thanks On 21 July 2015 at 16:15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > Gamma has no speed control on the vertical thruster and that seems to work > good. Also if I saw it right, you were still venting air after you were > under water. You must be over weight, your gonna end up with an air bubble. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 7/21/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 8:35 AM > > hmmm, > interesting. Mine are lockable already, I just haven't > got the motor controls on the handles. But I could > probably use them like you describe already. Maybe I > should try it before I change things. I was intending to > remove the PWM controllers and just have relays, with a > simple on\off button on each handle. I think snoopy > had that to start with? I'd have the speed control on > the rear thruster of course. > On 21 July 2015 at 14:09, > Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > I've found it a 100% improvement to make those > side handles lockable. You just lock them vertical when > diving and use them purely for regulating depth, while > driving around on the stern thruster exclusively. It frees > up your hands. > Alec > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at > 9:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > I didn't realise I was quite so close to the > bottom. With the slight distortion from the bow dome, I > thought I was further off. And, maybe I should be using > the side thrusters but I find them awkward to use due to the > controls not being on the handles. Im going to change > that, probably this weekend. > On 21 July 2015 at 13:13, > Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the > sub overall is very very good looking and neat as can be > inside. It was interesting how the exterior shots picked up > the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through > stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get > tangled up in weeds, and even though you have what's > probably the best faired K350 these boats tend to drag the > stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly enjoyed this > video, thanks for sharing. > Best, > Alec > On Tue, Jul 21, > 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > Hi All > > http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI > > Here is a little video of a > dive day I did last week. Its a series of dives stitched > into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but > you get the idea. Only issue I had > was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. > The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of > water. More of an insult than a > problem. Kind > RegardsJames > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 12:25:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:25:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: 12 Volt Reversing Continuous Duty Silver Contact Solenoid Relay for Winch Motor | eBay Message-ID: <1437495932.85388.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, this is what I use with total success, you can get different amp ratings even up to 500a Hank --- On Tue, 7/21/15, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: 12 Volt Reversing Continuous Duty Silver Contact Solenoid Relay for Winch Motor | eBay > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 11:23 AM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-VOLT-REVERSING-CONTINUOUS-DUTY-SILVER-CONTACT-SOLENOID-RELAY-for-WINCH-MOTOR-/281165700963?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:05:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:05:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003801d0c3d7$71056bb0$53104310$@cfl.rr.com> Cliff, Thanks for your interest. I?ve been out of town for a while but I?m back. I intend to start by writing a spec. I don?t have the mechanical resources you have so I would like to count on you for the housing. I should have a preliminary spec ready for review by this weekend. I?ll send it out and it should raise some questions as to what is needed for PSubs. Thanks, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:15 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:09:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:09:55 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003d01d0c3d8$10e59ce0$32b0d6a0$@cfl.rr.com> Alec, I?ve been out of town for a while but I?m back now. See what I wrote Cliff. Not sure who will help on the housing. They do make flat ones, I saw some on one of the Triton Subs. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:41 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I'm interested in collaborating on this, and can offer to machine propotype housings. In particular, I'm interested in LED lights with a housing format as flat as possible - "surface mount" lights if you will, that could be mounted directly on the body of the sub without sticking out excessively. There are tons of off-the-shelf lights out there that can easily be oil filled and work just fine, but I have not found any flat ones yet. Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:12:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 12:12:14 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003801d0c3d7$71056bb0$53104310$@cfl.rr.com> References: <003801d0c3d7$71056bb0$53104310$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Ken, can end me your email address to cliffordredus at gmail.com. Looking forward to working with you on the light. Jon is going to set up a web location we can share files as well as a project file. Cliff On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > > > Thanks for your interest. I?ve been out of town for a while but I?m back. > > > > I intend to start by writing a spec. I don?t have the mechanical resources > you have so I would like to count on you for the housing. > > > > I should have a preliminary spec ready for review by this weekend. I?ll > send it out and it should raise some questions as to what is needed for > PSubs. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:15 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:12:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:12:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55A7CD00.30201@psubs.org> References: <55A7CD00.30201@psubs.org> Message-ID: <004201d0c3d8$6e6ddb70$4b499250$@cfl.rr.com> Jon, As I wrote Cliff I should have a rough draft of what the LED light might be. It will be in M/S Word. Can I send it to the FTP or WEB upload/download this coming weekend? Thanks, Ken -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:26 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I agree we should keep it off the mailing list, but I can set up an FTP or WEB upload/download area on the psubs server if that is more convenient than dropbox. I want to build a project page anyway so we can track what work is being done and who's doing it to avoid duplicating efforts. Jon On 7/16/2015 10:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the > Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing > design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I > also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we > could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its > specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication > and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working > on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe > you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can > comment on it. > > Cliff > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:13:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:13:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004301d0c3d8$841f2410$8c5d6c30$@cfl.rr.com> We can do flat. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:51 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I to like the idea of a flat housing that can be either mounted flat to a FRP shell or the mounted into a recess molded into the FRP. Cliff On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I'm interested in collaborating on this, and can offer to machine propotype housings. In particular, I'm interested in LED lights with a housing format as flat as possible - "surface mount" lights if you will, that could be mounted directly on the body of the sub without sticking out excessively. There are tons of off-the-shelf lights out there that can easily be oil filled and work just fine, but I have not found any flat ones yet. Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:14:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:14:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004801d0c3d8$b99fe340$2cdfa9c0$@cfl.rr.com> Alan, I can handle all the electronics, that?s my background. It?s the housing I?m a little worried about. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:34 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:16:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:16:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 13:56:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:56:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, Snoopy was just on-off switches to begin with. Now she's got speed controllers and that is way better. However, I wish I had retained the on-off switches as a speed controller bypass, so I could still use the thrusters if the speed controllers fail. The new sub will feature that, just as backup. On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: hmmm, interesting. Mine are lockable already, I just haven't got the motor controls on the handles. But I could probably use them like you describe already. Maybe I should try it before I change things. I was intending to remove the PWM controllers and just have relays, with a simple on\off button on each handle. I think snoopy had that to start with? I'd have the speed control on the rear thruster of course. On 21 July 2015 at 14:09, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I've found it a 100% improvement to make those side handles lockable. You > just lock them vertical when diving and use them purely for regulating > depth, while driving around on the stern thruster exclusively. It frees up > your hands. > > Alec > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:01 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> I didn't realise I was quite so close to the bottom. With the slight >> distortion from the bow dome, I thought I was further off. And, maybe I >> should be using the side thrusters but I find them awkward to use due to >> the controls not being on the handles. Im going to change that, probably >> this weekend. >> >> On 21 July 2015 at 13:13, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Ah, great stuff! I love that bow window and the sub overall is very very >>> good looking and neat as can be inside. It was interesting how the exterior >>> shots picked up the sound of your stern thruster whacking its way through >>> stuff. You can really see how easily the stern props get tangled up in >>> weeds, and even though you have what's probably the best faired K350 these >>> boats tend to drag the stern thruster along the bottom. I thoroughly >>> enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:37 AM, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All >>>> >>>> >>>> http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI >>>> >>>> Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of >>>> dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you >>>> get the idea. >>>> >>>> Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. >>>> The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More >>>> of an insult than a problem. >>>> >>>> Kind Regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 17:53:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:53:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150719212627.1DAA531C@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20150719212627.1DAA531C@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55aebf7f.e8a2420a.1ff7.691b@mx.google.com> Brian, You are on. It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 17:59:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:59:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150721145920.26AF866C@m0048136.ppops.net> Hugh, I'll kick your ass dude ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:53:54 +1200 Brian, You are on. It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 18:28:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:28:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <1e6d4.509d4554.42e021aa@aol.com> In a message dated 7/21/2015 4:59:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Hugh, I'll kick your ass dude ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:53:54 +1200 Brian, You are on. It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: derp-donkey-2592x1944-wallpaper-949333.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 64947 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 19:15:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:15:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ken,a few thoughts once you have settled on the?electronics are.....Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?Do we want the housing oil filled?What sealing configuration do we want?What beam angle do we want?What sort of reflector?What sort of lense?How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?? ?Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available offthe shelf at a reasonable price.Cheers Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv1691125988 #yiv1691125988 -- _filtered #yiv1691125988 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1691125988 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1691125988 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv1691125988 #yiv1691125988 p.yiv1691125988MsoNormal, #yiv1691125988 li.yiv1691125988MsoNormal, #yiv1691125988 div.yiv1691125988MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv1691125988 a:link, #yiv1691125988 span.yiv1691125988MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1691125988 a:visited, #yiv1691125988 span.yiv1691125988MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1691125988 span.yiv1691125988EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv1691125988 .yiv1691125988MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv1691125988 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv1691125988 div.yiv1691125988WordSection1 {}#yiv1691125988 The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.? I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.? After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics.? Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan ?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. ?I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? ?We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list. ?I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. ?My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. ?Cliff ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 20:01:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 08:01:42 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55AEDD66.6080805@archivale.com> Looks like they were scraping bottom as soon as submerged. Marc On 7/21/2015 5:37 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All > > http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI > > Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of > dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you > get the idea. > Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. > The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. > More of an insult than a problem. > Kind Regards > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 20:34:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:34:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Ken, > a few thoughts once you have settled on the > electronics are..... > Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? > Do we want the housing oil filled? > What sealing configuration do we want? > What beam angle do we want? > What sort of reflector? > What sort of lense? > How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? > Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off > the shelf at a reasonable price. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we > want may be the biggest problem. > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. > I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. > After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB > for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a > 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. > > Cliff > On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > I'm on board with the LED light project. > Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED > flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. > I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED > lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > Cliff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 20:52:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:52:37 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150721145920.26AF866C@m0048136.ppops.net> References: <20150721145920.26AF866C@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55aee962.efa6420a.4002b.210a@mx.google.com> Brian, Sure y'all not from Texas?? -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 9:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, I'll kick your ass dude ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:53:54 +1200 Brian, You are on. It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 21:12:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:12:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150721181234.4016C349@m0005297.ppops.net> No, everybody says "dude" around here. Like about three or for times per sentence. I guess there are a lot of surfer dudes around here dude. --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:52:37 +1200 Brian, Sure y'all not from Texas?? -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 9:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, I'll kick your ass dude ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:53:54 +1200 Brian, You are on. It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 21:59:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 21:59:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon > > More Thoughts > > After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it > would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body > 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My > thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as > a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large > enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should > be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should > be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good > discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard > anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the > lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not > have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on > beam angle. > > To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up > with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call > out are : > > 1) design depth, > 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, > 3) housing material > 4) type of electrical penetrator > > I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback > from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do > the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to > machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine > shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can > test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk > has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download > for free and to view and critique design iterations. > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Ken, >> a few thoughts once you have settled on the >> electronics are..... >> Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? >> Do we want the housing oil filled? >> What sealing configuration do we want? >> What beam angle do we want? >> What sort of reflector? >> What sort of lense? >> How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? >> Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off >> the shelf at a reasonable price. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we >> want may be the biggest problem. >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the >> project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED >> drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a >> custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of >> designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the >> housing. >> >> Cliff >> On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> I'm on board with the LED light project. >> Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED >> flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. >> I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED >> lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my >> email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail >> email account to get back in the loop. >> >> I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux >> Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I >> have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test >> chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of >> the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a >> typical psubs application. >> >> We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, >> accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and >> testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. >> >> I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more >> lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. >> >> My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. >> Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on >> the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could >> come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 22:17:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:17:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <55aebf7f.e8a2420a.1ff7.691b@mx.google.com> References: <20150719212627.1DAA531C@m0005298.ppops.net> <55aebf7f.e8a2420a.1ff7.691b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <28C07AEF-325D-46F2-92CC-6391EF2FEFE1@xtra.co.nz> For the sake of national pride, Us Kiwis will have the whip out on Hugh, he is not allowed wine or rum until job is done! Keith Gordon Sent from my iPad > On 22/07/2015, at 9:53 am, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, You are on. > It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. > Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > Hugh, > Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 > > Brian, > I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. > I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. > Hugh > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! > > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 > > Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension go From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 21 22:54:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 21:54:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's > under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're > talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. > Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 > amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of > these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be > that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it > might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of > four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this > case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. > > A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: > > - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need > it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a > depth test. > - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. > - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal > expansion. > - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because > it will keep the oil in reliably! > > Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon >> >> More Thoughts >> >> After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it >> would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body >> 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My >> thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as >> a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large >> enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should >> be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should >> be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good >> discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard >> anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the >> lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not >> have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on >> beam angle. >> >> To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up >> with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call >> out are : >> >> 1) design depth, >> 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, >> 3) housing material >> 4) type of electrical penetrator >> >> I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback >> from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do >> the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to >> machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine >> shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can >> test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk >> has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download >> for free and to view and critique design iterations. >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Ken, >>> a few thoughts once you have settled on the >>> electronics are..... >>> Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? >>> Do we want the housing oil filled? >>> What sealing configuration do we want? >>> What beam angle do we want? >>> What sort of reflector? >>> What sort of lense? >>> How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? >>> Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off >>> the shelf at a reasonable price. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>> >>> The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we >>> want may be the biggest problem. >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >>> via Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>> >>> Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the >>> project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED >>> drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a >>> custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of >>> designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the >>> housing. >>> >>> Cliff >>> On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Cliff, >>> I'm on board with the LED light project. >>> Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED >>> flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. >>> I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED >>> lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. >>> Alan >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>> >>> Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my >>> email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail >>> email account to get back in the loop. >>> >>> I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the >>> Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design >>> and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have >>> test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one >>> of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to >>> fit a typical psubs application. >>> >>> We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, >>> accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and >>> testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. >>> >>> I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more >>> lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. >>> >>> My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. >>> Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on >>> the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could >>> come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 00:00:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 00:00:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <24117.4131edb3.42e06f6c@aol.com> Hey, Hugh, In Texas we never call someone "dude." We might say "hey" or "howdy" or call you by name or Cowboy or Amigo, but never "Dude." A dude is a tourist who visits Texas to try to experience the old western lifestyle particularly in a tourist venue referred to as a "dude ranch," although the proprietors refer to them as "guest ranches." We also say "yes, sir" and "yes, ma'am" a lot, particularly to our elders. Jim In a message dated 7/21/2015 8:12:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: No, everybody says "dude" around here. Like about three or for times per sentence. I guess there are a lot of surfer dudes around here dude. --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:52:37 +1200 Brian, Sure y'all not from Texas?? -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 9:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, I'll kick your ass dude ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:53:54 +1200 Brian, You are on. It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 01:05:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:05:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & theirhigh power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standardlight is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go anymore than 10,000.?They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi.I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat &needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though,& that aspect may take a bit of thinking about.I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the mainreason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy& maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away.Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is screwedin to the housing.Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat ?or the manufacture solder joint would fail.??The 5000 lumen ?Vero 18?has a diameter of 3.6 cm.? The Vero 29, is?4.9 cm or only about 40% larger.? My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing?is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate.? Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I?would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current.??Also with the smaller housing, ?if we?limit the?max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing.? Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you.? Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point.??? Cliff? On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test.- Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance.?- Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion.- Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec? On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon? More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a? short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation.? My thinking is?in order to?fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up?the housing? just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base.? Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design.?We?should be able to use the same? Subconn MCBH-3MP connector.? We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs.? This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens.? The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr.?This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle.?? To me, the key is to work as group on?the?draft spec that Ken comes up with.? From the housing perspective, the key items?the spec needs to call out?are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs? oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator ?I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC.? Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing.? If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing.?After?we have the prototype, I can test it in my?test chamber.? For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff ??? On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken,a few thoughts once you have settled on the?electronics are.....Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?Do we want the housing oil filled?What sealing configuration do we want?What beam angle do we want?What sort of reflector?What sort of lense?How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?? ?Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available offthe shelf at a reasonable price.Cheers Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.? I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.? After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics.? Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan ?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. ?I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? ?We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list. ?I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. ?My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. ?Cliff ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 08:06:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 06:06:01 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40bce2c5-19db-4af3-bac3-3bdc02add074@email.android.com> Perhaps one spot design and one flood design would be a good idea? Sean On July 21, 2015 8:54:12 PM MDT, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very >careful >that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the >manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a >diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. >My >major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is >that >it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to >dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, >I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to >make it >easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. >Also >with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, >it >would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we >stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that >it >won't have be submerged to operate. > >The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a >10,000 >lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! > >Not locked to anything at this point. > >Cliff > >On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see >it's >> under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're >> talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens >output. >> Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about >4 >> amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four >of >> these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely >not be >> that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so >it >> might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little >array of >> four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good >in this >> case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. >> >> A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: >> >> - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would >need >> it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during >a >> depth test. >> - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. >> - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal >> expansion. >> - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but >because >> it will keep the oil in reliably! >> >> Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via >Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon >>> >>> More Thoughts >>> >>> After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, >if it >>> would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen >flat body >>> 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in >operation. My >>> thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this >design as >>> a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just >large >>> enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. >Should >>> be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We >should >>> be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good >>> discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a >hard >>> anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for >the >>> lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did >not >>> have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle >on >>> beam angle. >>> >>> To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes >up >>> with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to >call >>> out are : >>> >>> 1) design depth, >>> 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, >>> 3) housing material >>> 4) type of electrical penetrator >>> >>> I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using >feedback >>> from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings >an do >>> the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his >offer to >>> machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the >machine >>> shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the >prototype, I can >>> test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, >Autodesk >>> has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to >download >>> for free and to view and critique design iterations. >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via >Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Ken, >>>> a few thoughts once you have settled on the >>>> electronics are..... >>>> Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? >>>> Do we want the housing oil filled? >>>> What sealing configuration do we want? >>>> What beam angle do we want? >>>> What sort of reflector? >>>> What sort of lense? >>>> How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? >>>> Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off >>>> the shelf at a reasonable price. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>> >>>> The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out >what we >>>> want may be the biggest problem. >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford >Redus >>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>> >>>> Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the >>>> project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience >LED >>>> drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can >design a >>>> custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the >exercise of >>>> designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to >design the >>>> housing. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Cliff, >>>> I'm on board with the LED light project. >>>> Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED >>>> flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. >>>> I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED >>>> lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical >side. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>> >>>> Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to >my >>>> email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a >gmail >>>> email account to get back in the loop. >>>> >>>> I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the >>>> Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the >housing design >>>> and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I >also have >>>> test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could >pick one >>>> of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and >tweak to >>>> fit a typical psubs application. >>>> >>>> We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, >>>> accessible to all that want to participate in the design, >fabrication and >>>> testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. >>>> >>>> I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like >more >>>> lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen >light. >>>> >>>> My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with >idea. >>>> Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in >working on >>>> the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe >you could >>>> come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment >on it. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 08:35:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 07:35:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good points. Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses? The nice thing about using heat resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their > high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard > light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any > more than 10,000. > They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi. > I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat & > needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though, > & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about. > I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the > main > reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy > & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away. > Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is > screwed > in to the housing. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful > that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the > manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a > diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My > major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that > it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to > dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, > I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it > easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also > with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it > would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we > stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it > won't have be submerged to operate. > > The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 > lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! > > Not locked to anything at this point. > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's > under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're > talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. > Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 > amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of > these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be > that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it > might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of > four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this > case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. > > A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: > > - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need > it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a > depth test. > - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. > - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal > expansion. > - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because > it will keep the oil in reliably! > > Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon > > More Thoughts > > After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it > would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body > 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My > thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as > a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large > enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should > be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should > be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good > discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard > anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the > lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not > have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on > beam angle. > > To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up > with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call > out are : > > 1) design depth, > 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, > 3) housing material > 4) type of electrical penetrator > > I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback > from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do > the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to > machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine > shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can > test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk > has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download > for free and to view and critique design iterations. > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > a few thoughts once you have settled on the > electronics are..... > Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? > Do we want the housing oil filled? > What sealing configuration do we want? > What beam angle do we want? > What sort of reflector? > What sort of lense? > How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? > Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off > the shelf at a reasonable price. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we > want may be the biggest problem. > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. > I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. > After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB > for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a > 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. > > Cliff > On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > I'm on board with the LED light project. > Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED > flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. > I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED > lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > Cliff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 08:37:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 07:37:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <40bce2c5-19db-4af3-bac3-3bdc02add074@email.android.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <40bce2c5-19db-4af3-bac3-3bdc02add074@email.android.com> Message-ID: It would be nice if we had interchangeable reflectors so we could do both spot and flood lights with the same housing design. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Perhaps one spot design and one flood design would be a good idea? > > Sean > > > On July 21, 2015 8:54:12 PM MDT, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very >> careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or >> the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a >> diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My >> major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that >> it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to >> dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, >> I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it >> easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also >> with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it >> would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we >> stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it >> won't have be submerged to operate. >> >> The 5000 lume! n light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a >> 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! >> >> Not locked to anything at this point. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's >>> under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're >>> talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. >>> Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 >>> amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of! >>> these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be >>> that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it >>> might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of >>> four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this >>> case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. >>> >>> A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: >>> >>> - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would >>> need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during >>> a depth test. >>> - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. >>> - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal >>> expansion. >>> - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but >>> because it will keep the oil in reliably! >>> >>> Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon >>>> >>>> More Thoughts >>>> >>>> After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if >>>> it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat >>>> body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in >>>> operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take >>>> this design as a starting point and just geometrical! ly scale up the >>>> housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its >>>> support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken >>>> can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. >>>> We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design >>>> uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass >>>> for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did >>>> not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on >>>> beam angle. >>>> >>>> To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up >>>> with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call >>>> out are : >>>> >>>> 1) design depth, >>>> 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, >>>> 3) housing material >>>> 4) type of electrical penetrator >>>> >>>> I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loa! ded on my PC. Using >>>> feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings >>>> an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his >>>> offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the >>>> machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the >>>> prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have >>>> Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be >>>> able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Ken, >>>>> a few thoughts once you have settled on the >>>>> electronics are..... >>>>> Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? >>>>> Do we want the housing oil filled? >>>>> What sealing configuration do we want? >>>>> What beam angle do we want? >>>>> What sort of reflector? >>>>> What sort of lense? >>>>> How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? >>>>> Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off >>>>> the shelf at a reasonable price. >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> ! *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>>> >>>>> The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what >>>>> we want may be the biggest problem. >>>>> >>>>> Ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org! ] *On Behalf Of *Clifford >>>>> Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM >>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>>> >>>>> Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the >>>>> project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED >>>>> drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a >>>>> custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of >>>>> designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the >>>>> housing. >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Cliff, >>>>> I'm on board with the LED light project. >>>>> Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED >>>>> flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. >>>>> I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED >>>>> lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>>> >>>>> Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my >>>>> email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail >>>>> email account to get back in the loop. >>>>> ! >>>>> I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the >>>>> Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design >>>>> and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have >>>>> test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one >>>>> of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to >>>>> fit a typical psubs application. >>>>> >>>>> We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, >>>>> accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and >>>>> testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. >>>>> >>>>> I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more >>>>> lumens. It is a 5000 ! lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. >>>>> >>>>> My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. >>>>> Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on >>>>> the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could >>>>> come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 09:40:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:40:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: All right, agreed... I was just getting greedy! Alec On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their > high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard > light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any > more than 10,000. > They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi. > I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat & > needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though, > & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about. > I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the > main > reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy > & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away. > Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is > screwed > in to the housing. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful > that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the > manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a > diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My > major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that > it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to > dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, > I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it > easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also > with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it > would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we > stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it > won't have be submerged to operate. > > The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 > lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! > > Not locked to anything at this point. > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's > under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're > talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. > Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 > amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of > these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be > that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it > might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of > four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this > case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. > > A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: > > - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need > it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a > depth test. > - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. > - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal > expansion. > - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because > it will keep the oil in reliably! > > Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon > > More Thoughts > > After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it > would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body > 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My > thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as > a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large > enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should > be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should > be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good > discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard > anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the > lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not > have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on > beam angle. > > To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up > with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call > out are : > > 1) design depth, > 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, > 3) housing material > 4) type of electrical penetrator > > I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback > from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do > the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to > machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine > shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can > test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk > has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download > for free and to view and critique design iterations. > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > a few thoughts once you have settled on the > electronics are..... > Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? > Do we want the housing oil filled? > What sealing configuration do we want? > What beam angle do we want? > What sort of reflector? > What sort of lense? > How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? > Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off > the shelf at a reasonable price. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we > want may be the biggest problem. > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. > I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. > After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB > for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a > 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. > > Cliff > On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > I'm on board with the LED light project. > Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED > flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. > I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED > lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > Cliff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 11:41:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 08:41:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150722084139.1DAAF7A7@m0005298.ppops.net> Ok, So in the picture of your sub it looks like it's ready to go ! Is that a CG image ? If not I think you might be slightly ahead of me, what exactly is left for you to do ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:17:33 +1200 For the sake of national pride, Us Kiwis will have the whip out on Hugh, he is not allowed wine or rum until job is done! Keith Gordon Sent from my iPad > On 22/07/2015, at 9:53 am, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, You are on. > It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. > Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > Hugh, > Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 > > Brian, > I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. > I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. > Hugh > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! > > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 > > Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension go _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 15:41:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:41:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> LED lamps don?t get very hot so the heat resistant borosilicate may not be necessary. Polycarbonate may work. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:36 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Good points. Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses? The nice thing about using heat resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8 . On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any more than 10,000. They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi. I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat & needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though, & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about. I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the main reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away. Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is screwed in to the housing. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 16:17:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:17:17 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Ken, yes relative to incandescent, LEDs don't get as hot but having said that if I run the 5000 lumen Bridgelux LED for 5 minutes within the housing but out in the air, it get pretty hot. To me the advantage of Borosilicate glass over polycarbonate or acrylic is the glass is a lot stronger thus we can withstand the design pressure easier thus a thinner lens. Also, with Borosilicate glass, the lens is going to be less likely to get scratched up with handling. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > LED lamps don?t get very hot so the heat resistant borosilicate may not be > necessary. Polycarbonate may work. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:36 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Good points. Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses? The nice > thing about using heat resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS > www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their > > high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard > > light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any > > more than 10,000. > > They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi. > > I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat & > > needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though, > > & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about. > > I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the > main > > reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy > > & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away. > > Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is > screwed > > in to the housing. > > Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful > that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the > manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a > diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My > major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that > it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to > dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, > I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it > easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also > with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it > would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we > stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it > won't have be submerged to operate. > > > > The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 > lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! > > > > Not locked to anything at this point. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's > under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're > talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. > Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 > amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of > these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be > that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it > might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of > four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this > case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. > > > > A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: > > > > - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need > it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a > depth test. > > - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. > > - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal > expansion. > > - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because > it will keep the oil in reliably! > > > > Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. > > > > > > Best, > > > Alec > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon > > > > More Thoughts > > > > After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it > would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body > 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My > thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as > a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large > enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should > be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should > be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good > discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard > anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the > lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not > have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on > beam angle. > > > > To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up > with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call > out are : > > > > 1) design depth, > > 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, > > 3) housing material > > 4) type of electrical penetrator > > > > I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback > from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do > the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to > machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine > shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can > test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk > has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download > for free and to view and critique design iterations. > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > a few thoughts once you have settled on the > > electronics are..... > > Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? > > Do we want the housing oil filled? > > What sealing configuration do we want? > > What beam angle do we want? > > What sort of reflector? > > What sort of lense? > > How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? > > Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off > > the shelf at a reasonable price. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we > want may be the biggest problem. > > > > Ken > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. > I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. > After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB > for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a > 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. > > Cliff > On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > I'm on board with the LED light project. > > Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED > > flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. > > I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED > > lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 16:45:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:45:19 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:04:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:04:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <24117.4131edb3.42e06f6c@aol.com> References: <24117.4131edb3.42e06f6c@aol.com> Message-ID: <55b0056f.e29a420a.38373.ffffc04a@mx.google.com> Jim, I have been to Texas a few times and enjoyed it even been to the P?Cahn festival (pecan??) Never struck Dude ?til we got some wannabe?s down here in NZ trying to ape the gangsta?s. The only time I heard Dude before was that on a ranch out Texas way a city slicker come to country was a ?dude?. My Y?all reference was my experience from Texas out to the other Southern states. Heard a few oil boys using it. I think the US people are a lot more polite than we are breeding down here. The other thing is calling people ?mate? down here and in Australia. That really gets me going. Walked out of a couple of shops when I have been greeted with that. A man has to stand up for what he believes in. Anyway I missed going to the P-subs get together and want to get to the next one and meet with all the good guys who have similar interests. There really are an interesting bunch of crazy and talented people in this forum. I enjoy it. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 4:01 p.m. To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey, Hugh, In Texas we never call someone "dude." We might say "hey" or "howdy" or call you by name or Cowboy or Amigo, but never "Dude." A dude is a tourist who visits Texas to try to experience the old western lifestyle particularly in a tourist venue referred to as a "dude ranch," although the proprietors refer to them as "guest ranches." We also say "yes, sir" and "yes, ma'am" a lot, particularly to our elders. Jim In a message dated 7/21/2015 8:12:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: No, everybody says "dude" around here. Like about three or for times per sentence. I guess there are a lot of surfer dudes around here dude. --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:52:37 +1200 Brian, Sure y'all not from Texas?? -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 9:59 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, I'll kick your ass dude ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:53:54 +1200 Brian, You are on. It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hugh, Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 Brian, I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension gone. All normal. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 3:39 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hi Hugh, A truly impressive project! you must have incredibly deep pockets :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/18/15, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 18, 2015, 11:51 PM #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 -- _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv0657377553 #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoNormal, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 a:link, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 a:visited, #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv0657377553 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 p.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 li.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate, #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv0657377553 span.yiv0657377553BalloonTextChar {} #yiv0657377553 .yiv0657377553MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv0657377553 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv0657377553 div.yiv0657377553WordSection1 {} #yiv0657377553 Hoping 20 knots surface max. cruising 16. Remains to be seen tho. Wt is approx 8500 lbs.Yes steel vessel 48? diameter x 5/16? (8mm) 2 x 15kw elect motors for underwater. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2015 3:59 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Wow, that does look nice. Is there a steel pressure hull in there somewhere? It looks like it would get up and plane with that bow configuration, what kind of speed will you be getting on the surface ? Depth? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:09:07 +1200Hi Brian,No.This one.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 4:58 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Is this the sub-con in the photos on the psubs web site? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:03:25 +1200About 98% but having a hell of a time with batteries and battery management systems. Trying to find draw-offs when not in use.Just had to pull out the port engine because of a battery failure. With various sparkies playing with it, it is not one persons responsibility to turn off the power and maintain the charge on the batteries with the result that we get battery meltdown. We have to have an idiot proof system. Gets a bit depressing.Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2015 9:45 a.m. To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Hey Hugh, Aren't you finished with that boat of yours yet ?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:17:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:17:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Guys, > > What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light > and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 > watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. > > What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my > design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful > that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the > manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a > diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My > major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that > it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to > dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, > I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it > easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also > with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it > would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we > stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it > won't have be submerged to operate. > > > > The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 > lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! > > > > Not locked to anything at this point. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's > under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're > talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. > Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 > amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of > these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be > that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it > might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of > four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this > case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. > > > > A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: > > > > - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need > it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a > depth test. > > - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. > > - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal > expansion. > > - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because > it will keep the oil in reliably! > > > > Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. > > > > > > Best, > > > Alec > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon > > > > More Thoughts > > > > After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it > would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body > 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My > thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as > a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large > enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should > be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should > be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good > discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard > anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the > lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not > have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on > beam angle. > > > > To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up > with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call > out are : > > > > 1) design depth, > > 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, > > 3) housing material > > 4) type of electrical penetrator > > > > I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback > from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do > the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to > machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine > shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can > test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk > has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download > for free and to view and critique design iterations. > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > a few thoughts once you have settled on the > > electronics are..... > > Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? > > Do we want the housing oil filled? > > What sealing configuration do we want? > > What beam angle do we want? > > What sort of reflector? > > What sort of lense? > > How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? > > Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off > > the shelf at a reasonable price. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we > want may be the biggest problem. > > > > Ken > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. > I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. > After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB > for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a > 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. > > Cliff > On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > I'm on board with the LED light project. > > Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED > > flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. > > I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED > > lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:26:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:26:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004a01d0c4c5$1a6bd3e0$4f437ba0$@cfl.rr.com> True, but don?t run the lamp out of water, hot equates to reduction in reliability. I like the tough glass. Incidentally I completed a first stab at the spec for the LED light. Jon said he would post it. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 4:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, yes relative to incandescent, LEDs don't get as hot but having said that if I run the 5000 lumen Bridgelux LED for 5 minutes within the housing but out in the air, it get pretty hot. To me the advantage of Borosilicate glass over polycarbonate or acrylic is the glass is a lot stronger thus we can withstand the design pressure easier thus a thinner lens. Also, with Borosilicate glass, the lens is going to be less likely to get scratched up with handling. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: LED lamps don?t get very hot so the heat resistant borosilicate may not be necessary. Polycarbonate may work. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:36 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Good points. Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses? The nice thing about using heat resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8 . On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any more than 10,000. They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi. I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat & needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though, & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about. I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the main reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away. Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is screwed in to the housing. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:34:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:34:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b00c60.4a66420a.e984b.1857@mx.google.com> Hi Cliff, The lens I am using is borosilicate and is OTS as is the LED driver.. The weakness of mine is that it does not have focus as when you stick it in water it loses its refraction lensing. Might be a good thing though. It is easy to make a lens out of acrylic that does what you want. However as the light source of the LED is about 1.0? square it is not as easy to get a focus or perfect light spread. I have polished the angled aluminium plate and it helps. The lenses I am talking about are for the LED?s. The two designs below are a single LED 80mm diameter and a 3 x LED 136mm diameter. I have added fins to them but if you need them to hang in out of the water the fins need to be a bit bigger. I is important to have the heat sink for the LED and the heat sink for the driver separated as much as possible otherwise the combined heat is too much. Mine is good for about 10 minutes out of the water before it gets too hot. The larger unit as you can see has 3 x drivers which means if one fails then you still have 2 x LED?s working. No messy oil and the driver mounting is supporting the flat plate. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 8:17 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, yes relative to incandescent, LEDs don't get as hot but having said that if I run the 5000 lumen Bridgelux LED for 5 minutes within the housing but out in the air, it get pretty hot. To me the advantage of Borosilicate glass over polycarbonate or acrylic is the glass is a lot stronger thus we can withstand the design pressure easier thus a thinner lens. Also, with Borosilicate glass, the lens is going to be less likely to get scratched up with handling. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: LED lamps don?t get very hot so the heat resistant borosilicate may not be necessary. Polycarbonate may work. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:36 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Good points. Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses? The nice thing about using heat resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any more than 10,000. They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi. I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat & needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though, & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about. I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the main reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away. Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is screwed in to the housing. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 15935 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:32:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:32:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <781090802.747139.1437600754160.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Gidday Hugh, ?Ken has taken a fancy to the 10,000 lumen??Bridgelux Varo 29 led& offered to do the electronics for it. He is wanting to incorporatea switching option to give us 5000 or 10,000 lumens.A submarine specific problem that he may have to overcome is the?length of the wire run from battery to led driver electronics. Similarto the problem with the brushless speed controllers.As someone suggested we could adapt this light for a narrow beamby changing out the reflector.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv9853568874 #yiv9853568874 -- _filtered #yiv9853568874 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9853568874 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9853568874 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9853568874 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9853568874 {font-family:CenturyGothic;panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}#yiv9853568874 #yiv9853568874 p.yiv9853568874MsoNormal, #yiv9853568874 li.yiv9853568874MsoNormal, #yiv9853568874 div.yiv9853568874MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv9853568874 a:link, #yiv9853568874 span.yiv9853568874MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9853568874 a:visited, #yiv9853568874 span.yiv9853568874MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9853568874 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv9853568874 p.yiv9853568874MsoAcetate, #yiv9853568874 li.yiv9853568874MsoAcetate, #yiv9853568874 div.yiv9853568874MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv9853568874 span.yiv9853568874EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv9853568874 span.yiv9853568874BalloonTextChar {}#yiv9853568874 .yiv9853568874MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv9853568874 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv9853568874 div.yiv9853568874WordSection1 {}#yiv9853568874 Guys,What is happening here?? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters.What is the objective?? Seems like re-inventing the wheel.? Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat?? Hugh ? ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat ?or the manufacture solder joint would fail.??The 5000 lumen ?Vero 18?has a diameter of 3.6 cm.? The Vero 29, is?4.9 cm or only about 40% larger.? My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing?is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate.? Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I?would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current.??Also with the smaller housing, ?if we?limit the?max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing.? Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. ?The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you.? Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! ?Not locked to anything at this point.??? ?Cliff? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote:I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. ?A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: ?- Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test.- Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance.?- Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion.- Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! ?Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. ? ?Best, Alec? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon? ?More Thoughts ?After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a? short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation.? My thinking is?in order to?fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up?the housing? just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base.? Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design.?We?should be able to use the same? Subconn MCBH-3MP connector.? We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs.? This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens.? The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr.?This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle.?? ?To me, the key is to work as group on?the?draft spec that Ken comes up with.? From the housing perspective, the key items?the spec needs to call out?are : ?1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs? oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator ??I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC.? Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing.? If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing.?After?we have the prototype, I can test it in my?test chamber.? For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. ? Cliff ? ? ???? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi Ken,a few thoughts once you have settled on the?electronics are.....Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?Do we want the housing oil filled?What sealing configuration do we want?What beam angle do we want?What sort of reflector?What sort of lense?How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?? ?Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available offthe shelf at a reasonable price.Cheers Alan ? ?From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem.?Ken? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.? I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.? After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics.? Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop.?I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? ?We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list.?I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light.?My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it.?Cliff????? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:43:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:43:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000a01d0c4c7$6ab04fa0$4010eee0$@cfl.rr.com> Read what I wrote for the LED Light before drawing any conclusions. Bear in mind the document is just a start. Jon will post it later tonight. Bear in mind that the design will be open to any Psubber, it won?t be confidential. I?m not too interested in the commercial aspects. In addition since LED technology is continuing to advance 10,000 lumens might be low power in the future. Still it?s a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:44:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:44:32 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55b00ecf.042c460a.d5bd1.ffffc57a@mx.google.com> Cliff, Yes would like to commercialise it all but reality exists. I am wanting to supply lights into a market that is 10,000 miles away and is already saturated with a bunch of lights of varying designs. I am happy to supply the housings at a reasonable price if anyone is interested. I am not going to get rich out of it. This bunch of guys want a reasonable product at a reasonable price which is why I began the design. We have a CNC mill and Lathe and can make bits if there is enough quantity. I have made up a hard anodizing bath which is good for doing small runs. The OTS supply is 12 or 24 volt. I have a lot more things for Ken to do than Lights !!! Ken, are you listening??? Ken, Battery management systems for LiFePO4 cells!! Uncle Sam needs You!! Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 9:18 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:44:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:44:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b00c60.4a66420a.e984b.1857@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55b00c60.4a66420a.e984b.1857@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000f01d0c4c7$a3affc60$eb0ff520$@cfl.rr.com> Nice looking design, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:34 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Cliff, The lens I am using is borosilicate and is OTS as is the LED driver.. The weakness of mine is that it does not have focus as when you stick it in water it loses its refraction lensing. Might be a good thing though. It is easy to make a lens out of acrylic that does what you want. However as the light source of the LED is about 1.0? square it is not as easy to get a focus or perfect light spread. I have polished the angled aluminium plate and it helps. The lenses I am talking about are for the LED?s. The two designs below are a single LED 80mm diameter and a 3 x LED 136mm diameter. I have added fins to them but if you need them to hang in out of the water the fins need to be a bit bigger. I is important to have the heat sink for the LED and the heat sink for the driver separated as much as possible otherwise the combined heat is too much. Mine is good for about 10 minutes out of the water before it gets too hot. The larger unit as you can see has 3 x drivers which means if one fails then you still have 2 x LED?s working. No messy oil and the driver mounting is supporting the flat plate. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 8:17 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, yes relative to incandescent, LEDs don't get as hot but having said that if I run the 5000 lumen Bridgelux LED for 5 minutes within the housing but out in the air, it get pretty hot. To me the advantage of Borosilicate glass over polycarbonate or acrylic is the glass is a lot stronger thus we can withstand the design pressure easier thus a thinner lens. Also, with Borosilicate glass, the lens is going to be less likely to get scratched up with handling. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: LED lamps don?t get very hot so the heat resistant borosilicate may not be necessary. Polycarbonate may work. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:36 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Good points. Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses? The nice thing about using heat resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8 . On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & their high power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standard light is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go any more than 10,000. They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi. I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat & needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though, & that aspect may take a bit of thinking about. I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the main reason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy & maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away. Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is screwed in to the housing. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 15935 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 17:48:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:48:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b00c60.4a66420a.e984b.1857@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55b00c60.4a66420a.e984b.1857@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <796719680.778321.1437601717836.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh,I have a flood light with a similar convex lense, & the lightpattern is more even than other flat lenses I have.I like the way you have supported it under the "meat" ofthe glass & not the flange. Should be really strong.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv8427500404 #yiv8427500404 -- _filtered #yiv8427500404 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8427500404 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8427500404 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8427500404 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv8427500404 #yiv8427500404 p.yiv8427500404MsoNormal, #yiv8427500404 li.yiv8427500404MsoNormal, #yiv8427500404 div.yiv8427500404MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8427500404 a:link, #yiv8427500404 span.yiv8427500404MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8427500404 a:visited, #yiv8427500404 span.yiv8427500404MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8427500404 p.yiv8427500404MsoAcetate, #yiv8427500404 li.yiv8427500404MsoAcetate, #yiv8427500404 div.yiv8427500404MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv8427500404 span.yiv8427500404EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8427500404 span.yiv8427500404BalloonTextChar {}#yiv8427500404 .yiv8427500404MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv8427500404 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv8427500404 div.yiv8427500404WordSection1 {}#yiv8427500404 Hi Cliff,The lens I am using is borosilicate and is OTS as is the LED driver..The weakness of mine is that it does not have focus as when you stick it in water it loses its refraction lensing.? Might be a good thing though.? It is easy to make a lens out of acrylic that does what you want.? However as the light source of the LED is about 1.0? square it is not as easy to get a focus or perfect light spread.? I have polished the angled aluminium plate and it helps.The lenses I am talking about are for the LED?s.?? The two designs below are a single LED 80mm diameter and a 3 x LED 136mm diameter.? I have added fins to them but if you need them to hang in out of the water the fins need to be a bit bigger.? I is important to have the heat sink for the LED and the heat sink for the driver separated as much as possible otherwise the combined heat is too much.? Mine is good for about 10 minutes out of the water before it gets too hot.? ??The larger unit as you can see has 3 x drivers which means if one fails then you still have 2 x LED?s working.? No messy oil and the driver mounting is supporting the flat plate.? Regards,? Hugh ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 8:17 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, yes relative to incandescent, LEDs don't get as?hot but having said that if I run the 5000 lumen Bridgelux LED for 5 minutes within the housing but out in the air, it get pretty hot.?To me the advantage of Borosilicate glass over polycarbonate or acrylic is the glass is a lot stronger thus we can withstand the design pressure easier thus a thinner lens.? Also, with Borosilicate glass, the lens is going to be less likely to get scratched up with handling. ?Cliff ?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:LED lamps don?t get very hot so the heat resistant borosilicate may not be necessary. Polycarbonate may work.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 8:36 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Good points.? Do you know of an OTS source for sapphire lenses?? The nice thing about using heat?resistant Borosilicate glass is that it is OTS? www.mcmaster.com/#standard-borosilicate-glass/=y5urr8.???On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just looking on the Deep Sea Power & Light site & theirhigh power light is 11,000 lumens whereas their standardlight is around 6,000. So I don't think we need to go anymore than 10,000.?They use saphire lenses, & lights are rated for around 10,000 psi.I would prefer not using oil. I think it yellows with the heat &needs to be changed. It would help with the heat disipation though,& that aspect may take a bit of thinking about.I mentioned in a previous thread that the capacitors overheating are the mainreason for failure. We discussed the idea of using a heat dispersing epoxy& maybe an alluminium sleeve over the capacitors to take the heat away.Maybe all the electronics could sit on a thick alluminium plate that is screwedin to the housing.Alan??From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat ?or the manufacture solder joint would fail.??The 5000 lumen ?Vero 18?has a diameter of 3.6 cm.? The Vero 29, is?4.9 cm or only about 40% larger.? My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing?is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate.? Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I?would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current.??Also with the smaller housing, ?if we?limit the?max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing.? Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate.?The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you.? Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light!?Not locked to anything at this point.????Cliff? ??On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub.?A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated:?- Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test.- Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance.?- Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion.- Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably!?Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth.??Best, Alec??On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon? ?More Thoughts?After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a? short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation.? My thinking is?in order to?fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up?the housing? just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base.? Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design.?We?should be able to use the same? Subconn MCBH-3MP connector.? We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs.? This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens.? The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr.?This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle.???To me, the key is to work as group on?the?draft spec that Ken comes up with.? From the housing perspective, the key items?the spec needs to call out?are :?1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs? oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator ??I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC.? Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing.? If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing.?After?we have the prototype, I can test it in my?test chamber.? For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations.? Cliff???????On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken,a few thoughts once you have settled on the?electronics are.....Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?Do we want the housing oil filled?What sealing configuration do we want?What beam angle do we want?What sort of reflector?What sort of lense?How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?? ?Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available offthe shelf at a reasonable price.Cheers Alan??From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem.?Ken??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.? I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.? After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics.? Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop.?I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? ?We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list.?I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light.?My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it.?Cliff????? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 24976 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 15935 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 18:45:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:45:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh In-Reply-To: <20150722084139.1DAAF7A7@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20150722084139.1DAAF7A7@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55b01d13.a507460a.407d3.ffffd219@mx.google.com> Brian, No, that is a photo. The electronics and testing is still to go. That was taken a couple of years ago but there was nothing inside it then. It is fairly complex. Too complex! Debugging is taking the time. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 3:42 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Ok, So in the picture of your sub it looks like it's ready to go ! Is that a CG image ? If not I think you might be slightly ahead of me, what exactly is left for you to do ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:17:33 +1200 For the sake of national pride, Us Kiwis will have the whip out on Hugh, he is not allowed wine or rum until job is done! Keith Gordon Sent from my iPad > On 22/07/2015, at 9:53 am, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, You are on. > It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. > Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > Hugh, > Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 > > Brian, > I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. > I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. > Hugh > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! > > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 > > Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension go _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 18:45:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 18:45:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b00ecf.042c460a.d5bd1.ffffc57a@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> <55b00ecf.042c460a.d5bd1.ffffc57a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003401d0c4d0$23c6b0d0$6b541270$@cfl.rr.com> I?m listening, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:45 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Yes would like to commercialise it all but reality exists. I am wanting to supply lights into a market that is 10,000 miles away and is already saturated with a bunch of lights of varying designs. I am happy to supply the housings at a reasonable price if anyone is interested. I am not going to get rich out of it. This bunch of guys want a reasonable product at a reasonable price which is why I began the design. We have a CNC mill and Lathe and can make bits if there is enough quantity. I have made up a hard anodizing bath which is good for doing small runs. The OTS supply is 12 or 24 volt. I have a lot more things for Ken to do than Lights !!! Ken, are you listening??? Ken, Battery management systems for LiFePO4 cells!! Uncle Sam needs You!! Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 9:18 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 18:51:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:51:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55b01e91.6567460a.75594.ffffd509@mx.google.com> Cliff, OK understand a bit more now. Any improvement is good and comparing designs is good too. With yours, have you separated the heat path for the LED and driver? What are your dimensions. I have a Cree 30 watt 30-36 volt sitting here I might try lighting up. I had a driver designed early on but the heat sink was not good enough and it unsoldered a couple of components. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 9:18 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 18:54:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:54:25 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <000a01d0c4c7$6ab04fa0$4010eee0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> <000a01d0c4c7$6ab04fa0$4010eee0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b01f30.e6da420a.27520.ffffcf6c@mx.google.com> OK, watching with interest. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 9:43 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Read what I wrote for the LED Light before drawing any conclusions. Bear in mind the document is just a start. Jon will post it later tonight. Bear in mind that the design will be open to any Psubber, it won?t be confidential. I?m not too interested in the commercial aspects. In addition since LED technology is continuing to advance 10,000 lumens might be low power in the future. Still it?s a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 19:12:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:12:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Message-ID: <20150722161236.1DB70D87@m0048138.ppops.net> Hugh, I'm working on all my different linkages right now, I basically have three separate linkage systems, Front flaps, Back flaps, and motor turning. My motors (2) will be turning in tandem and will function as rudders. All three systems will be using a 6 to 1 gear reduction and will all operate with small crank handles. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:45:24 +1200 Brian, No, that is a photo. The electronics and testing is still to go. That was taken a couple of years ago but there was nothing inside it then. It is fairly complex. Too complex! Debugging is taking the time. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 3:42 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Ok, So in the picture of your sub it looks like it's ready to go ! Is that a CG image ? If not I think you might be slightly ahead of me, what exactly is left for you to do ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:17:33 +1200 For the sake of national pride, Us Kiwis will have the whip out on Hugh, he is not allowed wine or rum until job is done! Keith Gordon Sent from my iPad > On 22/07/2015, at 9:53 am, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, You are on. > It would be good for both of us to compete as there is not enough drive on my side. > Cheers, Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 4:26 p.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > Hugh, > Ideally for me September or October would be perfect, since that is the best time of the year for us, however it seems like we are moving into an El Nino pattern now so our regular great fall weather may not happen. I've been saying September for a number of years now so it's starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf ! But if it came down to beating the New Zealanders I might have to go the extra mile and start getting serious ! My trailer axels are coming this coming week ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:53:20 +1200 > > Brian, > I have set enough dates to know that Engineers are the worst estimators of time. > I have too many projects on the go at once. When are you going to be in the water? I will then accept your date as a challenge. > Hugh > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, 20 July 2015 9:06 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > > How about a rough estimate for a launch date? I won't hold you to it ! I mean it's not like I'm saying I'll get my sub in the water before yours but .... I wouldn't want to mess up California vs Kiwi relations after all !! > > > > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hey Hugh > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:48:26 +1200 > > Tolerant wife, leaking home, bludging kids, 10 year old car, pension go _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 19:25:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:25:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003401d0c4d0$23c6b0d0$6b541270$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> <55b00ecf.042c460a.d5bd1.ffffc57a@mx.google.com> <003401d0c4d0$23c6b0d0$6b541270$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b02663.c765460a.f3aa8.ffffd9d6@mx.google.com> Can I email you off line? There are a bunch of problems I have had with existing electronics. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 10:46 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I?m listening, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:45 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Yes would like to commercialise it all but reality exists. I am wanting to supply lights into a market that is 10,000 miles away and is already saturated with a bunch of lights of varying designs. I am happy to supply the housings at a reasonable price if anyone is interested. I am not going to get rich out of it. This bunch of guys want a reasonable product at a reasonable price which is why I began the design. We have a CNC mill and Lathe and can make bits if there is enough quantity. I have made up a hard anodizing bath which is good for doing small runs. The OTS supply is 12 or 24 volt. I have a lot more things for Ken to do than Lights !!! Ken, are you listening??? Ken, Battery management systems for LiFePO4 cells!! Uncle Sam needs You!! Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 9:18 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 22:52:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 22:52:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <000a01d0c4c7$6ab04fa0$4010eee0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> <000a01d0c4c7$6ab04fa0$4010eee0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55B056EE.9030109@psubs.org> PSUBS-Bridgelux-LED-Project-Specs-v1 Find it here....www.psubs.org/webforum -> 1-ATM Submarine -> Lights There's a 2MB upload limit but this will archive the discussion and details unlike regular mail. Anyone can read but you'll have to register if you want to post messages. Jon On 7/22/2015 5:43 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Read what I wrote for the LED Light before drawing any conclusions. > Bear in mind the document is just a start. > > Jon will post it later tonight. > > Bear in mind that the design will be open to any Psubber, it won?t be > confidential. > > I?m not too interested in the commercial aspects. > > In addition since LED technology is continuing to advance 10,000 > lumens might be low power in the future. Still it?s a lot of light. > > Ken > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 22 23:11:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 01:17:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 05:17:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1726664442.993141.1437628649482.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Dude,with regard to the cost; there are a number of lights on Deal Extremefor around $15-, that may have suitable housings. One I have looks like it will only?require an O-ring grove?as an upgrade. Keep the housing & throw the rest away.?IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spotlight / Underwater Lamp - Silver | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spo...I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | View on www.dx.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | They are generally threaded at the back & have something similar to a blue globecable gland in them. Just replace this gland with a blue globe if the thread iscompatible. Once we have the final led & driver dimentions, I will have a look.No reason why we couldn't do a few variants of housings using the same led & driver.Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 06:11:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:11:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1726664442.993141.1437628649482.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <1726664442.993141.1437628649482.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <158215511.1072184.1437646297741.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> A couple of safety notes that I have just read from a light operating manual are below.They are convincing me that a fairly bullet proof sealing system would be a good idea.Alan? ?After each deployment, carefully check to make surethe light is operational and has not flooded. If it getsflooded, upon surfacing, the light can become internally ?pressurized, which may be potentially dangerous.Additionally, if the power remains on when the light haspartially flooded, it is possible for electrolytic generationof an explosive mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gases.If a light appears flooded upon removal from the water,it should be treated as potentially dangerous. Point thelight away from persons and valuable equipment andmake sure that the power is disconnected. See theFlooded Light Repair procedure for more information. Flooded Light RepairIf the light stops working while underwater, you shouldassume that it has been flooded. When working on apotentially flooded light, it is important to use appropriatepersonal protective equipment to include, at a minimum,eye and hand protection.1. Place the light face down on a table making surethat the connector side is facing up.2. Unscrew the End-Cap Retainer with a spannerwrench.3. Slowly depressurize the connector compartmentand remove the end-cap with the connectorattached to it.4. Without removing the circuit board, rinse thecompartment with clean fresh water.5. Bake the light in a warm oven at no more than100? C or 212? F for at least 30 minutes to bakeout any moisture that may be present.6. If it is determined that the flooding occurreddue to damage to the connector, please see theChanging the Connector section below.7. Once it is determined that the light is not or nolonger internally pressurized, and the floodingwas not due to the connector; it is recommendedthat the light be returned with the End-CapRetainer partly unscrewed as in step 2 above, toDeepSea Power & Light for evaluation and repairusing the RMA Procedure for Repair below.? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks Dude,with regard to the cost; there are a number of lights on Deal Extremefor around $15-, that may have suitable housings. One I have looks like it will only?require an O-ring grove?as an upgrade. Keep the housing & throw the rest away.?IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spotlight / Underwater Lamp - Silver | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spo...I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | View on www.dx.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | They are generally threaded at the back & have something similar to a blue globecable gland in them. Just replace this gland with a blue globe if the thread iscompatible. Once we have the final led & driver dimentions, I will have a look.No reason why we couldn't do a few variants of housings using the same led & driver.Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 06:30:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <158215511.1072184.1437646297741.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <1726664442.993141.1437628649482.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <158215511.1072184.1437646297741.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <396912836.1101649.1437647453363.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Underwater reflector design pdfhttp://www.deepsea.com/wp-content/uploads/article-Underwater-Light-Reflector-Design.ONT-Nov08.pdf Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights A couple of safety notes that I have just read from a light operating manual are below.They are convincing me that a fairly bullet proof sealing system would be a good idea.Alan? ?After each deployment, carefully check to make surethe light is operational and has not flooded. If it getsflooded, upon surfacing, the light can become internally ?pressurized, which may be potentially dangerous.Additionally, if the power remains on when the light haspartially flooded, it is possible for electrolytic generationof an explosive mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gases.If a light appears flooded upon removal from the water,it should be treated as potentially dangerous. Point thelight away from persons and valuable equipment andmake sure that the power is disconnected. See theFlooded Light Repair procedure for more information. Flooded Light RepairIf the light stops working while underwater, you shouldassume that it has been flooded. When working on apotentially flooded light, it is important to use appropriatepersonal protective equipment to include, at a minimum,eye and hand protection.1. Place the light face down on a table making surethat the connector side is facing up.2. Unscrew the End-Cap Retainer with a spannerwrench.3. Slowly depressurize the connector compartmentand remove the end-cap with the connectorattached to it.4. Without removing the circuit board, rinse thecompartment with clean fresh water.5. Bake the light in a warm oven at no more than100? C or 212? F for at least 30 minutes to bakeout any moisture that may be present.6. If it is determined that the flooding occurreddue to damage to the connector, please see theChanging the Connector section below.7. Once it is determined that the light is not or nolonger internally pressurized, and the floodingwas not due to the connector; it is recommendedthat the light be returned with the End-CapRetainer partly unscrewed as in step 2 above, toDeepSea Power & Light for evaluation and repairusing the RMA Procedure for Repair below.? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks Dude,with regard to the cost; there are a number of lights on Deal Extremefor around $15-, that may have suitable housings. One I have looks like it will only?require an O-ring grove?as an upgrade. Keep the housing & throw the rest away.?IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spotlight / Underwater Lamp - Silver | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | IP67 Waterproof 10W 700lm 6500K White Light LED Spo...I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | View on www.dx.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | They are generally threaded at the back & have something similar to a blue globecable gland in them. Just replace this gland with a blue globe if the thread iscompatible. Once we have the final led & driver dimentions, I will have a look.No reason why we couldn't do a few variants of housings using the same led & driver.Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 08:09:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 05:09:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Message-ID: <1437653351.37687.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak yesterday. I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling" Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical environments. I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical penetrators. Might be worth a try. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 08:40:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 06:40:20 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report In-Reply-To: <1437653351.37687.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437653351.37687.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been a long time user of MG Chemicals potting and encapsulation compounds, and I note that on their product page they have a thermally conductive epoxy listed: http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/epoxies/potting-and-encapsulating/ You wouldn't cover the LED element with this one, but perhaps the back end? Sean On July 23, 2015 6:09:11 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi all, >I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak >yesterday. I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer >light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil >filling" Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's >for use in chemical environments. I use a crystal clear casting resin >for making electrical penetrators. Might be worth a try. >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 08:57:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 05:57:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Message-ID: <20150723055754.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.b92be75f50.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 09:35:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:35:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report In-Reply-To: <20150723055754.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.b92be75f50.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150723055754.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.b92be75f50.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <0b0070c2-84cc-4c85-b002-0952d5a3cc2e@email.android.com> I wonder if you could pot such a light in two pours? Fill the back end with e.g. MG Chemicals 832TC, and once that cures, cover the emitters with 8322? Sean On July 23, 2015 6:57:54 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Before I oil compensated my 10,000 lumen LED head light, I messed >around with epoxy potting. I had two problems. One is the epoxy >yellowed over extended time of use as most resins and plastics do. The >other is with a LED this powerful, it does give off heat and the epoxy >acted as a insulator instead of a conductor. This resulted in the LED >starting to burn inside the potting. Two corrections for this would be >to experiment with different epoxies and / or not use such a powerful >LED array as what I am using. I like my lights bright :) > > > >Thanks, > >Scott Waters > > > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 5:09 am >To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >Hi all, >I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak >yesterday. I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light >and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling" >Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in >chemical environments. I use a crystal clear casting resin for making >electrical penetrators. Might be worth a try. >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:00:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:00:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report In-Reply-To: <0b0070c2-84cc-4c85-b002-0952d5a3cc2e@email.android.com> References: <20150723055754.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.b92be75f50.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <0b0070c2-84cc-4c85-b002-0952d5a3cc2e@email.android.com> Message-ID: To me potting or not comes down to the cost of the housing. If you can find an adequate low cost housing and that the housing fits your application, maybe like the one Alan posted, then its worth experimenting with potting. If we can not find an adequate OTS housing, and we have to machine a housing, then it makes more sense to build as 1-atm housing and utilize the mounting base so that the LED array can be change out. Potting the back of the LED is not going to work. The manufacture requires that the back of the LED be in contact with an aluminum heat base to conduct heat also you need to use a thermal grease behind the array. I work if you potted the face of the LED that it would prevent adequate heat transfer. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I wonder if you could pot such a light in two pours? Fill the back end > with e.g. MG Chemicals 832TC, and once that cures, cover the emitters with > 8322? > > Sean > > > On July 23, 2015 6:57:54 AM MDT, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Before I oil compensated my 10,000 lumen LED head light, I messed around >> with epoxy potting. I had two problems. One is the epoxy yellowed over >> extended time of use as most resins and plastics do. The other is with a >> LED this powerful, it does give off heat and the epoxy acted as a insulator >> instead of a conductor. This resulted in the LED starting to burn inside >> the potting. Two corrections for this would be to experiment with different >> epoxies and / or not use such a powerful LED array as what I am using. I >> like my lights bright :) >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 5:09 am >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> Hi all, >> I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak >> yesterday. I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and >> he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling" Hmmm I >> had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical >> environments. I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical >> penetrators. Might be worth a try. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:18:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:18:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:26:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:26:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b02663.c765460a.f3aa8.ffffd9d6@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> <55b00ecf.042c460a.d5bd1.ffffc57a@mx.google.com> <003401d0c4d0$23c6b0d0$6b541270$@cfl.rr.com> <55b02663.c765460a.f3aa8.ffffd9d6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003901d0c553$8a2878d0$9e796a70$@cfl.rr.com> Hugh, Yes you can, do you have my E-mail address? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 7:25 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Can I email you off line? There are a bunch of problems I have had with existing electronics. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 10:46 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I?m listening, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:45 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Yes would like to commercialise it all but reality exists. I am wanting to supply lights into a market that is 10,000 miles away and is already saturated with a bunch of lights of varying designs. I am happy to supply the housings at a reasonable price if anyone is interested. I am not going to get rich out of it. This bunch of guys want a reasonable product at a reasonable price which is why I began the design. We have a CNC mill and Lathe and can make bits if there is enough quantity. I have made up a hard anodizing bath which is good for doing small runs. The OTS supply is 12 or 24 volt. I have a lot more things for Ken to do than Lights !!! Ken, are you listening??? Ken, Battery management systems for LiFePO4 cells!! Uncle Sam needs You!! Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 9:18 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:31:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:31:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, Why not an option unless potted? Scott and I are both using the very light Jon posted, oil filled, and they're doing great. They even come with the filler screw. Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. >> >> One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >> actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just >> purchasing something like >> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >> off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. >> >> Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >> operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >> cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are >> relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >> estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:35:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:35:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) Message-ID: <20150723073543.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a6f6c89441.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:40:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:40:53 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: <20150723073543.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a6f6c89441.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150723073543.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a6f6c89441.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Scott, What are the dimensions of those foam blocks? Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, > > I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the > scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all > my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. > > *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for > both) > *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) > *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) > *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) > *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) > *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure > housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor > controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 > knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been > asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. > *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) > > If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for > $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:52:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:52:34 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 10:53:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:53:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) Message-ID: <20150723075337.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.367c25a127.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 11:18:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:18:22 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> Message-ID: You are right. Should have added, unless these OTS utility lights are potted or oil compensated to the qualification list. As a personal preference, I just don't like the mess and maintenance associate with oil compensation particularly since we are not trying to get to the depth rating for commercial lights. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff, > > Why not an option unless potted? Scott and I are both using the very light > Jon posted, oil filled, and they're doing great. They even come with the > filler screw. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as >> well. >> >> I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as >> well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option >> unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to >> publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could >> machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that >> could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like >> ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, >> we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as >> designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design >> drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. >> >> Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. >>> >>> One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >>> actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just >>> purchasing something like >>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >>> off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. >>> >>> Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >>> operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >>> cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are >>> relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >>> estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 11:23:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:23:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: <20150723075337.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.367c25a127.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150723075337.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.367c25a127.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: I'm at the point where I'm wondering how close my weight and volume calcs are to reality, and in theory I'm good but will only know for sure when the boat makes it to the water. If you still have any of these lying around in six months time, I might be calling you! Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have 8 of them. They are rounded to conform to a hull. They are roughly > 12"x12"x 18". > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the > scrap yard) > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 7:40 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Hi Scott, > > What are the dimensions of those foam blocks? > > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hey guys, >> >> I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the >> scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all >> my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. >> >> *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for >> both) >> *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) >> *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) >> *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) >> *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) >> *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure >> housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor >> controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 >> knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been >> asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. >> *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) >> >> If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for >> $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 12:03:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:03:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437667415.43562.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, If the LED is still heat sinked to the aluminum housing, then the heat should still dissipate into the aluminum regardless if it is surrounded with air or polyurethane. I have just potted a light and waiting for it to cure. I will then submerge it in water and see what happens. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 9:18 AM You are right.? Should have added, unless these OTS utility lights?are potted or oil compensated to the qualification list.? As a personal preference, I just don't like the mess and maintenance associate with oil compensation particularly since we are not trying to get to the depth rating for commercial lights. Cliff? On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, Why not an option unless potted? Scott and I are both using the very light Jon posted, oil filled, and they're doing great. They even come with the filler screw. Best, Alec? On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well. ?I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.? Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.? Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 12:06:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:06:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 12:12:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:12:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop test Message-ID: <1437667949.77980.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yesterday I tested a couple of things, first was my dual prop on the vertical thruster. The thruster work great, well great in the sense that it pushed the same in both directions. I will be adding a second thruster with dual props on the other side of the sub. The next test was a new compensation set up for the thruster. I took a propane regulator and removed the diaphragm and replaced it with a piece of rubber from an inner tube. I threaded in a nice ss fitting for the oil line to the motor and drilled a vent hole for water to enter. The conversion took about 15 min and worked excellent. My LED took on a tiny bit of water but I think I just found the cause. The oil is escaping through the wires. I have fixed that now. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 12:18:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:18:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop test In-Reply-To: <1437667949.77980.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437667949.77980.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, have you got any pics of the compensator? I assume its still oil filled? james On 23 July 2015 at 17:12, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yesterday I tested a couple of things, first was my dual prop on the > vertical thruster. The thruster work great, well great in the sense that > it pushed the same in both directions. I will be adding a second thruster > with dual props on the other side of the sub. The next test was a new > compensation set up for the thruster. I took a propane regulator and > removed the diaphragm and replaced it with a piece of rubber from an inner > tube. I threaded in a nice ss fitting for the oil line to the motor and > drilled a vent hole for water to enter. The conversion took about 15 min > and worked excellent. > My LED took on a tiny bit of water but I think I just found the cause. > The oil is escaping through the wires. I have fixed that now. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 12:19:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:19:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1437667415.43562.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437667415.43562.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I agree as long as back of LED in thermal communication with heat sink, the bulk of the heat will be dissipated. Let me know how the test comes out. Are you using the Vero 29 10,000 lumen LED? Like Scott, I worry about the clear potting material over the front of the LED discoloring due to heat. Best to just try it. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > If the LED is still heat sinked to the aluminum housing, then the heat > should still dissipate into the aluminum regardless if it is surrounded > with air or polyurethane. I have just potted a light and waiting for it to > cure. I will then submerge it in water and see what happens. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 7/23/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 9:18 AM > > You > are right. Should have added, unless these OTS utility > lights are potted or oil compensated to the qualification > list. As a personal preference, I just don't like the > mess and maintenance associate with oil compensation > particularly since we are not trying to get to the depth > rating for commercial lights. > Cliff > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at > 9:31 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Hi Cliff, > Why not > an option unless potted? Scott and I are both using the very > light Jon posted, oil filled, and they're doing great. > They even come with the filler screw. > > Best, > Alec > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at > 10:18 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am > assuming we can post files as well. > I agree low cost is important but > having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility > lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they > can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, > is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing > that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, > and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily > fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like > ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and > DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a > prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as > designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that > includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list > and test results. > Getting a consciences on the design > spec is the first step. > Cliff > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 > at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many > people actually build/use it. If it costs more to > manufacture than just purchasing something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by > psubbers may be limited. > > > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical > recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely > going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that > "cheap", "low cost", and "good > price" are relative terms for a diverse group like > PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and > manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 12:40:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:40:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437669628.6101.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, Tim took a bunch of pics and video, but I can take some and send them to you. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop test To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 10:18 AM Hank,have you got any pics of the compensator?? I assume its still oil filled?? james On 23 July 2015 at 17:12, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yesterday I tested a couple of things, first was my dual prop on the vertical thruster.? The thruster work great, well great in the sense that it pushed the same in both directions.? I will be adding a second thruster with dual props on the other side of the sub.? The next test was a new compensation set up for the thruster.? I took a propane regulator and removed the diaphragm and replaced it with a piece of rubber from an inner tube.? I threaded in a nice ss fitting for the oil line to the motor and drilled a vent hole for water to enter.? The conversion took about 15 min and worked excellent. My LED took on a tiny bit of water but I think I just found the cause.? The oil is escaping through the wires. I have fixed that now. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 12:42:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:42:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437669753.7272.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, I am using a cheapo light from China I had sitting around. I figure lets wreck a crappy light first :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 10:19 AM Hank, I agree as long as back of LED in thermal communication with heat sink, the bulk of the heat will be dissipated.? Let me know how the test comes out.? Are you using the Vero 29 10,000 lumen LED??? Like Scott, I worry about the clear potting material over the front of the LED discoloring due to heat.? Best to just try it.? Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, If the LED is still heat sinked to the aluminum housing, then the heat should still dissipate into the aluminum regardless if it is surrounded with air or polyurethane.? I have just potted a light and waiting for it to cure.? I will then submerge it in water and see what happens. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 9:18 AM ?You ?are right.? Should have added, unless these OTS utility ?lights?are potted or oil compensated to the qualification ?list.? As a personal preference, I just don't like the ?mess and maintenance associate with oil compensation ?particularly since we are not trying to get to the depth ?rating for commercial lights. ?Cliff? ?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at ?9:31 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Hi Cliff, ?Why not ?an option unless potted? Scott and I are both using the very ?light Jon posted, oil filled, and they're doing great. ?They even come with the filler screw. ?Best, ?Alec? ?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at ?10:18 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am ?assuming we can post files as well. ??I agree low cost is important but ?having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility ?lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they ?can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, ?is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing ?that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, ?and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily ?fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ??ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and ?DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a ?prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as ?designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that ?includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list ?and test results.? ?Getting a consciences?on the design ?spec is the first step.? ?Cliff ?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 ?at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. ?One measure of a success for this project will be how many ?people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to ?manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd ?off the shelf then it's real world application by ?psubbers may be limited. ?Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical ?recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely ?going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that ?"cheap", "low cost", and "good ?price" are relative terms for a diverse group like ?PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and ?manufacturing especially if tooling is required. ?Jon ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 13:08:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:08:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop test In-Reply-To: <1437669628.6101.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437669628.6101.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55B11F7A.9040504@psubs.org> Post them on the website or to the webforum please, I'd like to see them too. On 7/23/2015 12:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > Tim took a bunch of pics and video, but I can take some and send them to you. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 13:24:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:24:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop test In-Reply-To: <55B11F7A.9040504@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1437672282.6861.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Jon, I screwed up my computer again, I get a big Access Denied when I go to my account :-( I can send to you directly if you like Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop test To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 11:08 AM Post them on the website or to the webforum please, I'd like to see them too. On 7/23/2015 12:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > Tim took a bunch of pics and video, but I can take some and send them to you. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 13:46:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:46:53 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: <20150723073543.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a6f6c89441.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150723073543.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a6f6c89441.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Scott, You or anyone else wouldn't happen to have a Styrofoam mold plug you would be willing to sell for a K-350 MBT? I can't find any Styrofoam sheets of proper size to glue together to make the plug. Rick On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, > > I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the > scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all > my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. > > *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for > both) > *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) > *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) > *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) > *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) > *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure > housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor > controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 > knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been > asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. > *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) > > If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for > $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 14:44:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:44:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED test Message-ID: <1437677082.59008.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, You were right, the light quit after about 45 min in the water :-( Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 15:27:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:27:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) Message-ID: <20150723122735.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1055f96446.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 15:28:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:28:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED test In-Reply-To: <1437677082.59008.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437677082.59008.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What was the failure mode? Water in the housing or overheating? On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > You were right, the light quit after about 45 min in the water :-( > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 15:31:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:31:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <101121269.1487168.1437679886250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 15:36:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:36:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Keith re lighting Message-ID: <1444826768.1464731.1437680176676.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Keith,if you are tuning in.Do you have any words of wisdom regarding a lighting system,light intensity & the dimming option.No doubt you have a bit of experience with your ROV business.Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 15:47:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:47:24 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <101121269.1487168.1437679886250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <101121269.1487168.1437679886250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Backscatter is less a function of light intensity, and more one of incident angle. In addition to the wider beam dispersion, vehicle fog lights work because they are typically mounted lower than the headlights, and thus reflected light off the water droplets doesn't come straight back at the driver. A similar effect could be achieved on your submarine by mounting lights on outboard extension arms. Standard encapsulating epoxies are very good insulators. Coupling hot equipment to a heat sink with potting compound specifically requires one designed with thermal conductivity in mind. Sean On July 23, 2015 1:31:26 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much >light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back >scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am >thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be >as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 >meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth >without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about >what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a >bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like >the idea of the recessed light.Alan >From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > >Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will >post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back >yet on registering at the forum. >Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery >bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I >dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is >24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to >handle?different nominal voltages. >Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I >think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is >designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than >500m? >6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know >it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with >more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on >installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each >light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote >to omit dimming. >8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will >end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size >the acrylic lens. >9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor >controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic >coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? >Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. >11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall >be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with >a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment >screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a >single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of >?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an >optional SS yoke style support bracket.? >Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard >machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a >dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. >On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > >Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. >The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the >specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford >Redus via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the >forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is >important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility >lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be >potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish >construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could >machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB >that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like >?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a >group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If >it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that >includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test >results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first >step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via >Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > >One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just >purchasing something like >http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be >limited. > >Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" >are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > >Jon > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >? >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 15:55:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:55:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <101121269.1487168.1437679886250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <101121269.1487168.1437 679886250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:05:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:05:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437681943.80301.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I can't tell what happened, the entire assembly was potted 1 inch deep, there was no heat, the housing was not even warm. It is still drawing power, just no light. Probably an electronic component overheated. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED test To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 1:28 PM What was the failure mode?? Water in the housing or overheating?? On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:44 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, You were right, the light quit after about 45 min in the water :-( Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:13:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:13:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] lighting in low viz Message-ID: <1437682396.76673.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> On our dive yesterday, the light was terrific, even with only 4 feet viz. We could see the bottom real well. That light bar is a treat, I think it is the way to go. I would be a good Texan, go big or go home. Tim will have pictures when he makes it back to Vancouver. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:17:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:17:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <101121269.1487168.1437679886250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Cliff, Ken, > > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > > need to be as intense. > > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:29:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:29:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <101121269.1487168.1437 679886250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:31:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 08:31:11 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003901d0c553$8a2878d0$9e796a70$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b000ee.2314460a.0b8b.ffffc32f@mx.google.com> <55b00ecf.042c460a.d5bd1.ffffc57a@mx.google.com> <003401d0c4d0$23c6b0d0$6b541270$@cfl.rr.com> <55b02663.c765460a.f3aa8.ffffd9d6@mx.google.com> <003901d0c553$8a2878d0$9e796a70$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b14f24.6501430a.91c40.ffffadaf@mx.google.com> Ken, Sorry I don?t have it. Mine is hfulton at q-subs.com Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 24 July 2015 2:26 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, Yes you can, do you have my E-mail address? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 7:25 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Can I email you off line? There are a bunch of problems I have had with existing electronics. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 10:46 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I?m listening, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:45 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Yes would like to commercialise it all but reality exists. I am wanting to supply lights into a market that is 10,000 miles away and is already saturated with a bunch of lights of varying designs. I am happy to supply the housings at a reasonable price if anyone is interested. I am not going to get rich out of it. This bunch of guys want a reasonable product at a reasonable price which is why I began the design. We have a CNC mill and Lathe and can make bits if there is enough quantity. I have made up a hard anodizing bath which is good for doing small runs. The OTS supply is 12 or 24 volt. I have a lot more things for Ken to do than Lights !!! Ken, are you listening??? Ken, Battery management systems for LiFePO4 cells!! Uncle Sam needs You!! Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 9:18 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, it would be reinventing the wheel for you but not for me. Yes, I have 5000 lumen light as it works great. My experience is that the more light the better. Yes I can just install more units and that has been my plan iodate but I really would like a 10,000 lumen small flat light. My concept on this project was to scale up what I have and not spend a lot of time doing it. My light was set up to run off my 36 VDC main bus. With Ken's background in this area, he could improve the PCB circuit design significantly by extending the supply power range to handle 12, 24 and 36 VDC nominal voltages. As Ken is an EE with a background in this very area and I have functioning low profile housing that could easily be extend to handle this larger LED panel, it makes since to me move forward on the project. I know you did a lot of work on your LED light but I was under the impression that you were going to commercialize the Qsub (after you get the kinks worked out) so did not think you were going to make the design available to psubs for free. To me if we can keep this project fast tracked, it is work it little effort to utilize the 10,000 Lumen Bridglux LED. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Guys, What is happening here? Cliff already has done the hard work on a light and I have a design with off the shelf stuff that is reasonable with 3 x 50 watt LEDs giving out about 12000 lumens and good for 500 meters. What is the objective? Seems like re-inventing the wheel. Admittedly my design is not flat but does it really need to be flat? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 2:54 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:37:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:37:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod Message-ID: <1437683879.13278.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am very pleased to say the cost of my escape pod is much less than expected. The hemi heads are coming from Edmonton Exchanger in 5 weeks and the rings are coming from Varsteel in Calgary next week. The whole conversion with 2 thrusters is under 4K Sweet! Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:55:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:55:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Go to the Psub forum area for the lights discussion http://www.psubs.org/webforum/showthread.php?tid=1 Page down to my post on 5000 Lumen light. should see a zip file of the drawings. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > > > How do I look at them?? > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Cliff, Ken, > > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > > need to be as intense. > > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 16:56:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:56:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: References: <20150723073543.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a6f6c89441.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: I just finished making MBTs of a similar size to K350 ones and the foam I used was the ordinary 2" thick pink insulation you get at any hardware store. It comes in 8' x 2' sizes, but you can glue as many together as you need. Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Scott, > You or anyone else wouldn't happen to have a Styrofoam mold plug you would > be willing to sell for a K-350 MBT? I can't find any Styrofoam sheets of > proper size to glue together to make the plug. > > Rick > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hey guys, >> >> I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the >> scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all >> my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. >> >> *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for >> both) >> *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) >> *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) >> *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) >> *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) >> *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure >> housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor >> controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 >> knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been >> asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. >> *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) >> >> If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for >> $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 17:05:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:05:22 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: <20150723122735.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1055f96446.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150723122735.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.1055f96446.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Scott That would even be better as I would rather not deal with the fiber glassing issues. I can feel myself starting to itch just typing this. How much would you like for them and what State do you live in? Rick On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:27 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick. I do not. I do however have a set of fiberglass MBT's for a K-350 I > would sell. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the > scrap yard) > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 10:46 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Hi Scott, > You or anyone else wouldn't happen to have a Styrofoam mold plug you would > be willing to sell for a K-350 MBT? I can't find any Styrofoam sheets of > proper size to glue together to make the plug. > > Rick > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hey guys, >> >> I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the >> scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all >> my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. >> >> *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for >> both) >> *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) >> *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) >> *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) >> *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) >> *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure >> housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor >> controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 >> knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been >> asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. >> *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) >> >> If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for >> $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. >> >> Thank you, >> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 17:21:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:21:53 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: <1437683879.13278.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437683879.13278.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I trust you were able to figure out the calculator? Sean On July 23, 2015 2:37:59 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >I am very pleased to say the cost of my escape pod is much less than >expected. The hemi heads are coming from Edmonton Exchanger in 5 weeks >and the rings are coming from Varsteel in Calgary next week. The whole >conversion with 2 thrusters is under 4K Sweet! >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 17:24:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:24:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) Message-ID: <20150723142424.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f970fd6210.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 17:25:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:25:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437686704.95309.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> No, I got some outside help :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 3:21 PM I trust you were able to figure out the calculator? Sean On July 23, 2015 2:37:59 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am very pleased to say the cost of my escape pod is much less than expected. The hemi heads are coming from Edmonton Exchanger in 5 weeks and the rings are coming from Varsteel in Calgary next week. The whole conversion with 2 thrusters is under 4K Sweet! Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 18:01:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 22:01:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: <1437686704.95309.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437686704.95309.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1405722484.1630465.1437688873126.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Better get it double checked if that refers to me,I did that blurry eyed at 5am.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod No, I got some outside help :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 7/23/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 3:21 PM I trust you were able to figure out the calculator? Sean On July 23, 2015 2:37:59 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am very pleased to say the cost of my escape pod is much less than expected.? The hemi heads are coming from Edmonton Exchanger in 5 weeks and the rings are coming from Varsteel in Calgary next week. The whole conversion with 2 thrusters is under 4K? Sweet! Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 23 21:25:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:25:31 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report In-Reply-To: <1437653351.37687.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437653351.37687.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55B1940B.9010704@archivale.com> Potting works as long as there isn't too much heat do dissipate. Oil is a very good conductor, acrylic much less so. Marc On 7/23/2015 8:09 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi all, > I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak yesterday. I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling" Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical environments. I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical penetrators. Might be worth a try. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 08:24:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 14:24:33 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod In-Reply-To: <1405722484.1630465.1437688873126.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1437686704.95309.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1405722484.1630465.1437688873126.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Did anyone do any further research on using a bore hole pump as a thruster?,ie using the motor and attaching a prop to the spline . I have had borehole pumps operating for many years with little problems ,maybe an ac/dc convertor could be used to keep costs low. as the 48v pumps are quite expensive .They are also rated for quite deep water. Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:01 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Better get it double checked if that refers to me, > I did that blurry eyed at 5am. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 9:25 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod > > No, I got some outside help :-) > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 7/23/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] escape pod > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Thursday, July 23, 2015, 3:21 PM > > I trust you were able to figure out the > calculator? > Sean > > > > > On July 23, 2015 2:37:59 PM > MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > I am very pleased to say > the cost of my escape pod is much less than expected. The > hemi heads are coming from Edmonton Exchanger in 5 weeks and > the rings are coming from Varsteel in Calgary next week. > The whole conversion with 2 thrusters is under 4K Sweet! > Hank > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 09:55:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 08:55:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > > > How do I look at them?? > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Cliff, Ken, > > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > > need to be as intense. > > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 10:33:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 07:33:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor Message-ID: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Glen, I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber bladder at the bottom. They are also sleek and made from SS. The problem is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure. Maybe someone knows a way to reverse them. If you can find a way to reverse them, please let me know. I would use them in a flash! Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 10:51:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:51:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: All right, I'm officially impressed! That is fantastic Cliff. Best, Alec On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of > the light. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Cliff, >> >> >> >> How do I look at them?? >> >> >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> >> >> Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my >> suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's >> email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing >> drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I >> was mentoring last year. >> >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra >> wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? >> >> >> >> We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also >> complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. >> >> >> >> Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can >> use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to >> delete. >> >> >> >> You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily >> updates for a while. >> >> >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> >> >> Cliff, Ken, >> >> I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in >> >> some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. >> >> The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. >> >> Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not >> >> need to be as intense. >> >> Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light >> housings, >> >> it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. >> >> Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case >> some of the >> >> components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. >> >> Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the >> recessed light. >> >> Alan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> >> >> Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post >> these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on >> registering at the forum. >> >> >> >> Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery >> bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I >> dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is >> 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different >> nominal voltages. >> >> >> >> Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think >> 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing >> a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? >> >> >> >> 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it >> is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more >> pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs >> so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on >> this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. >> >> >> >> 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end >> up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the >> acrylic lens. >> >> >> >> 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor >> controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic >> coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). >> Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. >> >> >> >> 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall >> be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a >> low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from >> the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array >> rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). >> Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support >> bracket. >> >> >> >> Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard >> machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a >> dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The >> housing might be the most expensive. >> >> >> >> Hope you guys are reading the specification. >> >> >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> >> >> Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as >> well. >> >> >> >> I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as >> well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option >> unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to >> publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could >> machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that >> could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like >> ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, >> we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as >> designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design >> drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. >> >> >> >> Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. >> >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. >> >> One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >> actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just >> purchasing something like >> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >> off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. >> >> Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >> operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >> cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are >> relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >> estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 10:55:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:55:35 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank I think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg. With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something I'm going to have to look into plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use? Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Glen, > I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber > bladder at the bottom. They are also sleek and made from SS. The problem > is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure. Maybe someone knows > a way to reverse them. If you can find a way to reverse them, please let > me know. I would use them in a flash! > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 10:58:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:58:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Glen, be sure to look at duty cycle. I researched pumps years ago and, at least with the ones I saw at that time, that was an issue because they were for intermittent use only. Best, Alec On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:55 AM, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank > I think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that > long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg. > With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something > I'm going to have to look into plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 > at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use? > Glen > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Glen, >> I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber >> bladder at the bottom. They are also sleek and made from SS. The problem >> is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure. Maybe someone knows >> a way to reverse them. If you can find a way to reverse them, please let >> me know. I would use them in a flash! >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 11:34:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 17:34:43 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec I have two running my R O system,one on the surface its been pumping 15 bar 24/7 for the past two years ,the other one providing the same water system from 80 meters below the surface controlled by a float switch this one has been pumping for three years no problem whatsoever.I had a 75 pound trolling motor in one of my 16000 litre nutrient tanks to mix nutrients in my hydroponic water I ran it 24/7 for a full year then it just stopped not bad neither. Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Glen, be sure to look at duty cycle. I researched pumps years ago and, at > least with the ones I saw at that time, that was an issue because they were > for intermittent use only. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:55 AM, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hank >> I think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that >> long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg. >> With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something >> I'm going to have to look into plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 >> at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use? >> Glen >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Glen, >>> I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber >>> bladder at the bottom. They are also sleek and made from SS. The problem >>> is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure. Maybe someone knows >>> a way to reverse them. If you can find a way to reverse them, please let >>> me know. I would use them in a flash! >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 11:33:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 08:33:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437752005.51369.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Glen, Agreed, you could mechanically rotate the motor or double up on motors. I would rather have fixed trolling motors personally or reversible pump motors. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, glen brown via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 8:55 AM HankI think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg.With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something I'm going to have to look into ?plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use?Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Glen, I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber bladder at the bottom.? They are also sleek and made from SS.? The problem is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure.? Maybe someone knows a way to reverse them.? ?If you can find a way to reverse them, please let me know.? I would use them in a flash! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 11:37:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:37:58 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I am happy with the light. Just wish we had the 10,000 lumen version available to us when we did the project. OAS, I finally got around to looking at Woodstock. She is going to look sweet in the water. I love the lines of the boat. Noticed you shortened her from her Solo days. If I am seeing the picture correctly, it looks like you have a protective acrylic cover over that beautiful bow viewport Greg fabricated for you. That's a nice way to protect the viewport without bars obstructing the view. Judging on the size of your straddle MBTs, it looks like you are going to have quite a bit of freeboard. From your estimated water level with the MBTs fully blown, can you see above the waterline while sitting near the bow viewport? Lastly, I like the aft syntactic foam balls but to me you should replace the 5 balls with just two big ones oriented horizontally. After all, most outsiders think we must have big ones to take these boats out! Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All right, I'm officially impressed! That is fantastic Cliff. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, >> or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of >> the light. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Cliff, >>> >>> >>> >>> How do I look at them?? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >>> via Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>> >>> >>> >>> Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my >>> suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's >>> email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing >>> drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I >>> was mentoring last year. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra >>> wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? >>> >>> >>> >>> We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also >>> complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. >>> >>> >>> >>> Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can >>> use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to >>> delete. >>> >>> >>> >>> You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily >>> updates for a while. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff, Ken, >>> >>> I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in >>> >>> some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. >>> >>> The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. >>> >>> Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not >>> >>> need to be as intense. >>> >>> Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light >>> housings, >>> >>> it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. >>> >>> Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case >>> some of the >>> >>> components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. >>> >>> Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the >>> recessed light. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will >>> post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet >>> on registering at the forum. >>> >>> >>> >>> Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery >>> bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I >>> dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is >>> 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different >>> nominal voltages. >>> >>> >>> >>> Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think >>> 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing >>> a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? >>> >>> >>> >>> 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it >>> is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more >>> pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs >>> so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on >>> this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. >>> >>> >>> >>> 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end >>> up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the >>> acrylic lens. >>> >>> >>> >>> 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor >>> controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic >>> coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). >>> Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. >>> >>> >>> >>> 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall >>> be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a >>> low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from >>> the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array >>> rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). >>> Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support >>> bracket. >>> >>> >>> >>> Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard >>> machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a >>> dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. >>> The housing might be the most expensive. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hope you guys are reading the specification. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >>> via Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>> >>> >>> >>> Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files >>> as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as >>> well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option >>> unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to >>> publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could >>> machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that >>> could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like >>> ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a >>> group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it >>> works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes >>> the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. >>> >>> >>> >>> Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. >>> >>> One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >>> actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just >>> purchasing something like >>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >>> off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. >>> >>> Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >>> operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >>> cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are >>> relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >>> estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 13:35:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Message-ID: <1437759308.32328.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 14:00:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:00:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Message-ID: <20150724110042.401606F6@m0005297.ppops.net> Hank, I would certainly say no more that this ! See Picture Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Kim K.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 89797 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 14:04:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <20150724110042.401606F6@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1437761070.74892.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I see you are a visual guy like me. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM Hank,???I would certainly say no more that this !? See Picture Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 14:24:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:24:42 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <1437759308.32328.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437759308.32328.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <767bf3c8-0670-40a5-a49e-d338b7c8718e@email.android.com> IIRC, 0.005 (1/2 %) R or 0.01 (1 %) D, measured using a template spanning 120? of arc. Can check later tonight. Sean On July 24, 2015 11:35:08 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All, >Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a >sphere hull. >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:01:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:01:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Message-ID: <20150724120115.AC0759FE@m0005312.ppops.net> Basically what it boils down to is how humanly possible it is to get it as near as perfect as you can. If you first instruct the fabricators to get it as close as possible, then you need to go from there. You can always massage it into a perfect sphere by using the proper amount of leverage. It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an escape pod you might as well just build another sub for all the trouble it will be worth. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 I see you are a visual guy like me. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM Hank,???I would certainly say no more that this !? See Picture Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:05:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:05:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <767bf3c8-0670-40a5-a49e-d338b7c8718e@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1437764755.25301.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, Thank you, that is perfect. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:24 PM IIRC, 0.005 (1/2 %) R or 0.01 (1 %) D, measured using a template spanning 120? of arc. Can check later tonight. Sean On July 24, 2015 11:35:08 AM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:21:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:21:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, I think she's going to be called Shackleton and thanks for the kind words. I dunno, based on your suggestion I should call her "Ballsy" on account of the stern floats. I'd also considered "Naughtylus." I dunno, sort of looks like a pregnant goldfish to me, with some leftover Soviet space program junk bolted to the stern, but she's growing on me. Dave Colombo took one look and said "Proton drive!" which I think nailed it. Those balls on the stern are actually big trawl floats. You get almost 40 lbs of buoyancy from each, they're rated to 2600 feet, and cost very little. I put them at the stern because I could fit in five of them without increasing the cross section, and they are really easy to mount because they have a shaft hole right through the middle. And believe it or not I rather like the bizarre look - but it was purely driven by engineering decisions. I do in fact have a double dome, with the space in between being free flooding to act as a shock absorber. However, there will be a tripod crash bar in front all the same. In fact I'm expecting the bent tubes for that any moment, and should be able to weld it up next week. I got a lot of respect for crash protection after ripping the claw off Snoopy in a collision with some rocks a few years back. The bolts that secure the claw were all sheared off clean, as if I'd used a bolt cutter on them. This sub weighing 4400 lbs instead of 2400, I wouldn't trust the squishy outer dome to stop it. The freeboard should be about 32 inches and the draft 32 as well. Compare to Snoopy with 13" freeboard and draft of 35". But I don't expect to see anything out of the bow dome when surfaced. The edge of the dome will be about touching the surface, not above it to any measurable degree. I'll update the project page in a week or two, the crash bars are coming and there bow fairing is complete. Thanks, Alec On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks, I am happy with the light. Just wish we had the 10,000 lumen > version available to us when we did the project. > > OAS, I finally got around to looking at Woodstock. She is going to look > sweet in the water. I love the lines of the boat. Noticed you shortened > her from her Solo days. If I am seeing the picture correctly, it looks > like you have a protective acrylic cover over that beautiful bow viewport > Greg fabricated for you. That's a nice way to protect the viewport > without bars obstructing the view. Judging on the size of your straddle > MBTs, it looks like you are going to have quite a bit of freeboard. From > your estimated water level with the MBTs fully blown, can you see above the > waterline while sitting near the bow viewport? Lastly, I like the aft > syntactic foam balls but to me you should replace the 5 balls with just two > big ones oriented horizontally. After all, most outsiders think we must > have big ones to take these boats out! > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> All right, I'm officially impressed! That is fantastic Cliff. >> >> Best, >> >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on >>> https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED >>> light, you will see a short video of the light. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Cliff, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How do I look at them?? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my >>>> suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's >>>> email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing >>>> drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I >>>> was mentoring last year. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra >>>> wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also >>>> complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you >>>> can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like >>>> to delete. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily >>>> updates for a while. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via >>>> Personal_Submersibles >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff, Ken, >>>> >>>> I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in >>>> >>>> some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. >>>> >>>> The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. >>>> >>>> Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not >>>> >>>> need to be as intense. >>>> >>>> Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light >>>> housings, >>>> >>>> it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. >>>> >>>> Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case >>>> some of the >>>> >>>> components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. >>>> >>>> Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of >>>> the recessed light. >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will >>>> post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet >>>> on registering at the forum. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery >>>> bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I >>>> dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is >>>> 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different >>>> nominal voltages. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I >>>> think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is >>>> designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than >>>> 500m? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know >>>> it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with >>>> more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple >>>> lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way >>>> on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will >>>> end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the >>>> acrylic lens. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor >>>> controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic >>>> coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). >>>> Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall >>>> be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a >>>> low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from >>>> the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array >>>> rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). >>>> Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support >>>> bracket. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard >>>> machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a >>>> dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. >>>> The housing might be the most expensive. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hope you guys are reading the specification. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >>>> via Personal_Submersibles >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM >>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files >>>> as well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as >>>> well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option >>>> unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to >>>> publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could >>>> machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that >>>> could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like >>>> ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a >>>> group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it >>>> works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes >>>> the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. >>>> >>>> One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >>>> actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just >>>> purchasing something like >>>> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >>>> off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. >>>> >>>> Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >>>> operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >>>> cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are >>>> relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >>>> estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:20:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:20:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <20150724120115.AC0759FE@m0005312.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1437765658.14277.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I think a good fabricator will provide what you ask for. Edmonton Exchanger is a pretty Kik Ass outfit. Building an escape pod may seem excessive I suppose, but I am just not feeling comfortable at depths that I can not swim out of. I can build the pod for under 5K, that seems like pretty cheap insurance. Remember I am not a diver and I will spend most of my time at 400feet. I did consider building a second Gamma, just make a copy. It is much cheaper to build a pod and pretty quick also. I am not sure I could build a replica Gamma by spring. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:01 PM Basically what it boils down to is how humanly possible it is to get it as near as perfect as you can.? If you first instruct the fabricators to get it as close as possible, then you need to go from there.? You can always massage it into a perfect sphere by using the proper amount of leverage. ? It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an escape pod you might as well just build another sub for all the trouble it will be worth. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 I see you are a visual guy like me. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM Hank,???I would certainly say no more that this !? See Picture Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:27:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:27:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Message-ID: <20150724122716.AC075E01@m0005312.ppops.net> Hank, You have a plan for getting out of the pod ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:20:58 -0700 Brian, I think a good fabricator will provide what you ask for. Edmonton Exchanger is a pretty Kik Ass outfit. Building an escape pod may seem excessive I suppose, but I am just not feeling comfortable at depths that I can not swim out of. I can build the pod for under 5K, that seems like pretty cheap insurance. Remember I am not a diver and I will spend most of my time at 400feet. I did consider building a second Gamma, just make a copy. It is much cheaper to build a pod and pretty quick also. I am not sure I could build a replica Gamma by spring. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:01 PM Basically what it boils down to is how humanly possible it is to get it as near as perfect as you can.? If you first instruct the fabricators to get it as close as possible, then you need to go from there.? You can always massage it into a perfect sphere by using the proper amount of leverage. ? It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an escape pod you might as well just build another sub for all the trouble it will be worth. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 I see you are a visual guy like me. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM Hank,???I would certainly say no more that this !? See Picture Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:37:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:37:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <20150724122716.AC075E01@m0005312.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1437766631.44501.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, The pod needs a bit of ballast, enough to keep it upright at the surface, but no stability. The pod will have an inflatable skirt ( truck inner tube) around the hatch, that I will inflate before opening the hatch. The tube will be hidden under the fairing between the sub hull and escape sphere. The sphere will have O2 and micro scrubber as well as surface snorkel. I will store My emersion suit in the pod. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:27 PM Hank,? You have a plan for getting out of the pod ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:20:58 -0700 Brian, I think a good fabricator will provide what you ask for.? Edmonton Exchanger is a pretty Kik Ass outfit. Building an escape pod may seem excessive I suppose, but I am just not feeling comfortable at depths that I can not swim out of.? I can build the pod for under 5K, that seems like pretty cheap insurance.? Remember I am not a diver and I will spend most of my time at 400feet.? I did consider building a second Gamma, just make a copy. It is much cheaper to build a pod and pretty quick also.? I am not sure I could build a replica Gamma by spring.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:01 PM Basically what it boils down to is how humanly possible it is to get it as near as perfect as you can.? If you first instruct the fabricators to get it as close as possible, then you need to go from there.? You can always massage it into a perfect sphere by using the proper amount of leverage. ? It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an escape pod you might as well just build another sub for all the trouble it will be worth. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 I see you are a visual guy like me. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM ? ? Hank,???I would ? certainly say no more that this !? See Picture ? ? Brian ? ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ? Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 ? ? Hi All, ? Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness ? percentage is for a sphere hull. ? Hank ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:38:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:38:53 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <1437765658.14277.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1437765658.14277.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm surprised that EE gave you a feasible quote, but I guess with oil prices down they're not making too many 12" thick 144" hemispheres these days. Sean On July 24, 2015 1:20:58 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Brian, >I think a good fabricator will provide what you ask for. Edmonton >Exchanger is a pretty Kik Ass outfit. >Building an escape pod may seem excessive I suppose, but I am just not >feeling comfortable at depths that I can not swim out of. I can build >the pod for under 5K, that seems like pretty cheap insurance. Remember >I am not a diver and I will spend most of my time at 400feet. >I did consider building a second Gamma, just make a copy. It is much >cheaper to build a pod and pretty quick also. I am not sure I could >build a replica Gamma by spring. > >Hank -------------------------------------------- >On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:01 PM > > Basically what it boils down to is > how humanly possible it is to get it as near as perfect as > you can.? If you first instruct the fabricators to get > it as close as possible, then you need to go from > there.? You can always massage it into a perfect sphere > by using the proper amount of leverage. > > ? It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an > escape pod you might as well just build another sub for all > the trouble it will be worth. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 > > I see you are a visual guy like me. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- >On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM > > Hank,???I would > certainly say no more that this !? See Picture > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 > > Hi All, > Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness > percentage is for a sphere hull. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 15:55:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:55:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005101d0c64a$accf2300$066d6900$@cfl.rr.com> I did, Looks really good. Working today. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 9:56 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 16:01:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:01:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437768062.79458.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes, I am rather pleased, I was expecting a big number. Varsteel only needs 2 days lead time, things are slow. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:38 PM I'm surprised that EE gave you a feasible quote, but I guess with oil prices down they're not making too many 12" thick 144" hemispheres these days. Sean On July 24, 2015 1:20:58 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, I think a good fabricator will provide what you ask for. Edmonton Exchanger is a pretty Kik Ass outfit. Building an escape pod may seem excessive I suppose, but I am just not feeling comfortable at depths that I can not swim out of. I can build the pod for under 5K, that seems like pretty cheap insurance. Remember I am not a diver and I will spend most of my time at 400feet. I did consider building a second Gamma, just make a copy. It is much cheaper to build a pod and pretty quick also. I am not sure I could build a replica Gamma by spring. Hank On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:01 PM Basically what it boils down to is how humanly p! ossible it is to get it as near as perfect as you can.? If you first instruct the fabricators to get it as close as possible, then you need to go from there.? You can always massage it into a perfect sphere by using the proper amount of leverage. ? It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an escape pod you might as well just build another sub for all the trouble it will be worth. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 I see you are a visual guy like me. Hank On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM Hank,???I would certainly say no more that this !? See Picture Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 Hi All, Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness percentage is for a sphere hull. Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 16:10:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:10:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14ec1b0aaed-1243-d06a@webprd-a96.mail.aol.com> Scott, Those saddle tanks might be interesting. What dimensions? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2015 11:23 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) I'm at the point where I'm wondering how close my weight and volume calcs are to reality, and in theory I'm good but will only know for sure when the boat makes it to the water. If you still have any of these lying around in six months time, I might be calling you! Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have 8 of them. They are rounded to conform to a hull. They are roughly 12"x12"x 18". Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 7:40 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Hi Scott, What are the dimensions of those foam blocks? Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for both) *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. Thank you, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 16:23:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 20:23:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 16:43:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:43:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Looks a good solid light Cliff. > On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > secured > with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > my situation. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of > the light. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Cliff, > > How do I look at them?? > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Cliff, Ken, > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > need to be as intense. > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 16:49:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 20:49:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <490187182.2217326.1437770989060.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Glen,I am just about to get back in to a project using anRC BLDC motor as a thruster. Have a 3 hp one witha lot of starting torque that spins a Yamaha 4 hp propwithout gearing.?With regard to your pump; you will either need a suitableelectronic speed controller with reverse, or?you could build an H bridgecircuit on the appopriate 2 of the 3 wires from the speed controllerto the BLDC motor. ?There are normally 3 wires from the controller to the motor, the central one is for position feedback & the other two can be?switched around happily for reversing the polarity.You will need some sort of delay so you are not wacking it in to reversewhile it's still rotating.Ken is an expert on this.Hank had some great low priced DC pumps that he posted links to a while back.Alan From: glen brown via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor HankI think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg.With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something I'm going to have to look into ?plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use?Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Glen, I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber bladder at the bottom.? They are also sleek and made from SS.? The problem is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure.? Maybe someone knows a way to reverse them.? ?If you can find a way to reverse them, please let me know.? I would use them in a flash! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 16:58:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 20:58:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 17:11:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 17:11:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <1437766631.44501.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20150724122716.AC075E01@m0005312.ppops.net> <1437766631.44501.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I'm not following. Where does the sphere go and how to you get from cabin to sphere? I ask because I would have imagined at the stern, but you have a big prop back there. Alec On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:37 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, > The pod needs a bit of ballast, enough to keep it upright at the surface, > but no stability. The pod will have an inflatable skirt ( truck inner > tube) around the hatch, that I will inflate before opening the hatch. The > tube will be hidden under the fairing between the sub hull and escape > sphere. The sphere will have O2 and micro scrubber as well as surface > snorkel. I will store My emersion suit in the pod. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:27 PM > > Hank, You have a plan for > getting out of the pod ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:20:58 -0700 > > > Brian, > I think a good fabricator will provide what you ask > for. Edmonton Exchanger is a pretty Kik Ass outfit. > Building an escape pod may seem excessive I suppose, but I > am just not feeling comfortable at depths that I can not > swim out of. I can build the pod for under 5K, that > seems like pretty cheap insurance. Remember I am not a > diver and I will spend most of my time at 400feet. > I did consider building a second Gamma, just make a copy. It > is much cheaper to build a pod and pretty quick also. > I am not sure I could build a replica Gamma by spring. > > > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:01 PM > > Basically what it boils down to is > how humanly possible it is to get it as near as perfect as > you can. If you first instruct the fabricators to get > it as close as possible, then you need to go from > there. You can always massage it into a perfect sphere > by using the proper amount of leverage. > > It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an > escape pod you might as well just build another sub for > all > the trouble it will be worth. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 > > I see you are a visual guy like me. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM > > Hank, I would > certainly say no more that this ! See Picture > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 > > Hi All, > Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness > percentage is for a sphere hull. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 17:46:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 14:46:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437774384.66541.YahooMailMobile@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, The sphere pod connects to the stern. The rear ballast tank goes and is replaced with two more saddle tanks. The exsisting motor drive will be replaced with oil compensated jettisoning thrusters. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 18:31:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:31:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness In-Reply-To: <1437774384.66541.YahooMailMobile@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1437777087.11468.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, Sorry, I thought it was Brian asking. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 3:46 PM Brian, The sphere pod connects to the stern. The rear ballast tank goes and is replaced with two more saddle tanks. The exsisting motor drive will be replaced with oil compensated jettisoning thrusters. Hank From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness Sent: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 9:11:37 PM Hank, I'm not following. Where does the sphere go and how to you get from cabin to sphere? I ask because I would have imagined at the stern, but you have a big prop back there. Alec On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:37 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, The pod needs a bit of ballast, enough to keep it upright at the surface, but no stability.? The pod will have an inflatable skirt ( truck inner tube) around the hatch, that I will inflate before opening the hatch.? The tube will be hidden under the fairing between the sub hull and escape sphere. The sphere will have O2 and micro scrubber as well as surface snorkel.? I will store My emersion suit in the pod. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:27 PM ?Hank,? You have a plan for ?getting out of the pod ? ?Brian ?--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ?wrote: ?From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ?Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 12:20:58 -0700 ?Brian, ?I think a good fabricator will provide what you ask ?for.? Edmonton Exchanger is a pretty Kik Ass outfit. ?Building an escape pod may seem excessive I suppose, but I ?am just not feeling comfortable at depths that I can not ?swim out of.? I can build the pod for under 5K, that ?seems like pretty cheap insurance.? Remember I am not a ?diver and I will spend most of my time at 400feet.? ?I did consider building a second Gamma, just make a copy. It ?is much cheaper to build a pod and pretty quick also.? ?I am not sure I could build a replica Gamma by spring.? ?Hank -------------------------------------------- ?On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ? Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 1:01 PM ? Basically what it boils down to is ? how humanly possible it is to get it as near as perfect as ? you can.? If you first instruct the fabricators to get ? it as close as possible, then you need to go from ? there.? You can always massage it into a perfect sphere ? by using the proper amount of leverage. ? ? It seems to me, though, if you're going to have an ? escape pod you might as well just build another sub for ?all ? the trouble it will be worth. ? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ? wrote: ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ? Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:04:30 -0700 ? I see you are a visual guy like me. ? Hank ? -------------------------------------------- ? On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles ? wrote: ?? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ?? To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?? Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 12:00 PM ?? ?? Hank,???I would ?? certainly say no more that this !? See Picture ?? ?? Brian ?? ?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org ?? wrote: ?? ?? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ?? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ?? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] roundness ?? Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:35:08 -0700 ?? ?? Hi All, ?? Can someone tell me the allowable out of roundness ?? percentage is for a sphere hull. ?? Hank ?? _______________________________________________ ?? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?? ?? ?? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?? ?? _______________________________________________ ?? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list ? Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ? http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 19:41:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 12:41:47 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Keith re lighting In-Reply-To: <1444826768.1464731.1437680176676.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1444826768.1464731.1437680176676.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <516D1984-5AEA-4DAD-A18F-6E514740D013@xtra.co.nz> Sorry Alan I am in Samoa at present with associated email problems. We have been using some interesting lighting on a NZ wreck project at 150 metres, mounted on diver scooters. If required I will follow up with info later when I return to NZ Cheers Keith Gordon Sent from my iPad > On 24/07/2015, at 8:36 am, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles true wrote: > > Keith, > if you are tuning in. > Do you have any words of wisdom regarding a lighting system, > light intensity & the dimming option. > No doubt you have a bit of experience with your ROV business. > Cheers Alan > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 19:55:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 19:55:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601d0c66c$2a3f1810$7ebd4830$@cfl.rr.com> I posted the latest spec revision on the LED light on the web forum please review. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:43 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 20:15:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 17:15:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] grease question Message-ID: <20150724171535.4015FA2A@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 20:22:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 20:22:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001b01d0c66f$ed92e140$c8b8a3c0$@cfl.rr.com> Cliff, Can you send me your E-mail address? I would like to send you some information on reflectors for the VARO 29 array. Thanks, Ken (wmartindale at cfl.rr.com) From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:43 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 20:36:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 17:36:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] grease question In-Reply-To: <20150724171535.4015FA2A@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1437784564.61743.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, Nope, will be fine. I had a seal problem on the final shaft that holds my prop. Normally it is oil filled and I had no time to fix it, so I screwed in grease nipples and filled it full of grease. No problem with oil slick. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] grease question To: "PSubs" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 6:15 PM Hi All,???????????? I have a number of bevel gear 90's that will be isolated within delron housings in fairly tight tolerances,? I'm wondering?if I put some heavy grease around the bevel gears ( they are not stainless) , do you think that I will get any kind of tell tail oil slick problems?? I was going to go with all stainless?but when I saw the price tag I changed my mind, they are the only non stainless part of my linkage.?Brian? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 21:07:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 01:07:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Keith re lighting In-Reply-To: <516D1984-5AEA-4DAD-A18F-6E514740D013@xtra.co.nz> References: <1444826768.1464731.1437680176676.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <516D1984-5AEA-4DAD-A18F-6E514740D013@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <1947762046.2276696.1437786440765.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Keith,nothing like a tropical Island in the middle of winter.If you do get this email; what do you think about the dimming option from10,000 to 5000 lumens? Are there conditions where this would come in handy?Alan From: Keith Gordon via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Keith re lighting Sorry Alan I am in Samoa at present with associated email problems. We have been using some interesting lighting on a NZ wreck project at 150 metres, mounted on diver scooters. If required I will follow up with info later when I return to NZCheersKeith Gordon Sent from my iPad On 24/07/2015, at 8:36 am, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles true wrote: Keith,if you are tuning in.Do you have any words of wisdom regarding a lighting system,light intensity & the dimming option.No doubt you have a bit of experience with your ROV business.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 21:12:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 01:12:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <001b01d0c66f$ed92e140$c8b8a3c0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <001b01d0c66f$ed92e140$c8b8a3c0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <494481611.2283876.1437786729698.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Vance,?any words of wisdom on lighting from a user perspective.Would a dimming function be of use?Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv8798053309 #yiv8798053309 -- _filtered #yiv8798053309 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8798053309 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8798053309 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv8798053309 #yiv8798053309 p.yiv8798053309MsoNormal, #yiv8798053309 li.yiv8798053309MsoNormal, #yiv8798053309 div.yiv8798053309MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8798053309 a:link, #yiv8798053309 span.yiv8798053309MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8798053309 a:visited, #yiv8798053309 span.yiv8798053309MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8798053309 span.yiv8798053309EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8798053309 .yiv8798053309MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv8798053309 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv8798053309 div.yiv8798053309WordSection1 {}#yiv8798053309 Cliff, ?Can you send me your E-mail address? I would like to send you some information on reflectors for the VARO 29 array. ?Thanks, ?Ken (wmartindale at cfl.rr.com) ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:43 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. ?Cliff ?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 24 22:06:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 19:06:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] grease question Message-ID: <20150724190651.C0DAD39C@m0005309.ppops.net> Hank, That's good to know !! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] grease question Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 17:36:04 -0700 Brian, Nope, will be fine. I had a seal problem on the final shaft that holds my prop. Normally it is oil filled and I had no time to fix it, so I screwed in grease nipples and filled it full of grease. No problem with oil slick. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/24/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] grease question To: "PSubs" Received: Friday, July 24, 2015, 6:15 PM Hi All,???????????? I have a number of bevel gear 90's that will be isolated within delron housings in fairly tight tolerances,? I'm wondering?if I put some heavy grease around the bevel gears ( they are not stainless) , do you think that I will get any kind of tell tail oil slick problems?? I was going to go with all stainless?but when I saw the price tag I changed my mind, they are the only non stainless part of my linkage.?Brian? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 06:49:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 12:49:35 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: <490187182.2217326.1437770989060.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <490187182.2217326.1437770989060.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan Thanks for the info,I am going the bore hole pump way for sure I will give feed back . I think you guys have a chance today with the game we have made 8 changes to our team, Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Glen, > I am just about to get back in to a project using an > RC BLDC motor as a thruster. Have a 3 hp one with > a lot of starting torque that spins a Yamaha 4 hp prop > without gearing. > With regard to your pump; you will either need a suitable > electronic speed controller with reverse, or you could build an H bridge > circuit on the appopriate 2 of the 3 wires from the speed controller > to the BLDC motor. There are normally 3 wires from the controller to > the motor, the central one is for position feedback & the other two can be > switched around happily for reversing the polarity. > You will need some sort of delay so you are not wacking it in to reverse > while it's still rotating. > Ken is an expert on this. > Hank had some great low priced DC pumps that he posted links to a while > back. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor > > Hank > I think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that > long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg. > With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something > I'm going to have to look into plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 > at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use? > Glen > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Glen, > I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber > bladder at the bottom. They are also sleek and made from SS. The problem > is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure. Maybe someone knows > a way to reverse them. If you can find a way to reverse them, please let > me know. I would use them in a flash! > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 10:17:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 09:17:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped > recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing > cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better > because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass > surrounding the light fitting. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are > describing and we can talk. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Looks a good solid light Cliff. > On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > secured > with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > my situation. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of > the light. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Cliff, > > How do I look at them?? > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Cliff, Ken, > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > need to be as intense. > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 10:48:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:48:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 15:28:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 14:28:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 > watts. > > > > Puts out a lot of light. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light > either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so > that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. > Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. > Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I > don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a > neoprene flat gadget. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped > > recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing > > cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better > > because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass > > surrounding the light fitting. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are > describing and we can talk. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Looks a good solid light Cliff. > > On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > > need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > > in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > > I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > > of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > > extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > secured > > with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > > my situation. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of > the light. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, > > > > How do I look at them?? > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Cliff, Ken, > > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > > need to be as intense. > > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LED Spec Excel rev2.xlsx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet Size: 12543 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:11:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 16:11:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001a01d0c716$0e9a8540$2bcf8fc0$@cfl.rr.com> Did you read the revision I posted? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:13:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 16:13:36 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:14:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 15:14:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <001a01d0c716$0e9a8540$2bcf8fc0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001a01d0c716$0e9a8540$2bcf8fc0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Yes, I was working off your July 24, Rev 1. Is there a latter one? On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Did you read the revision I posted? > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 > watts. > > > > Puts out a lot of light. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light > either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so > that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. > Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. > Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I > don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a > neoprene flat gadget. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped > > recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing > > cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better > > because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass > > surrounding the light fitting. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are > describing and we can talk. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Looks a good solid light Cliff. > > On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > > need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > > in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > > I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > > of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > > extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > secured > > with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > > my situation. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of > the light. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, > > > > How do I look at them?? > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Cliff, Ken, > > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > > need to be as intense. > > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:20:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 15:20:07 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > > > Dimming, I thought we deleted this? > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 > watts. > > > > Puts out a lot of light. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light > either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so > that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. > Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. > Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I > don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a > neoprene flat gadget. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > > I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped > > recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing > > cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better > > because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass > > surrounding the light fitting. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are > describing and we can talk. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Looks a good solid light Cliff. > > On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > > need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > > in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > > I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > > of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > > extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > secured > > with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > > my situation. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of > the light. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, > > > > How do I look at them?? > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Cliff, Ken, > > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > > need to be as intense. > > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:28:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 16:28:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001a01d0c716$0e9a8540$2bcf8fc0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003d01d0c718$86935750$93ba05f0$@cfl.rr.com> Nope, Thanks Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 4:15 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes, I was working off your July 24, Rev 1. Is there a latter one? On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Did you read the revision I posted? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:33:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 20:33:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1796586977.2615533.1437856420487.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> If we did have dimming, is that going to be a problem for thosewho don't want it? As I understand it, Cliff doesn't have enoughpins on his existing connectors; but wouldn't it be a matter ofjust not wiring up the dimming option & using his original connectors?Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming.?>From feedback, we were two for and two against.? ?I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it.? This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions.? A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus.? Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?Dimming, I thought we deleted this?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. ?Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts.?Puts out a lot of light. ?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:45:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 16:45:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff that's exactly what I would plan to do with a pair of these lights. Until recently I was thinking "surface mounted" flat lights, but I'm now thinking recessed, mounted in a hole with a rubber gasket. They would go on the bottom forward edge of the MBTs. Its low enough that even if the gasket leaked a little, they're almost at the bottom of the tank anyway. Best, Alec On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light > either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so > that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. > Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. > Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I > don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a > neoprene flat gadget. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, >> I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped >> recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing >> cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better >> because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass >> surrounding the light fitting. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are >> describing and we can talk. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> Looks a good solid light Cliff. >> On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we >> need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing >> in the fairing as you have requested in your list. >> I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape >> of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded >> extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be >> secured >> with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in >> my situation. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, >> or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of >> the light. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Cliff, >> >> How do I look at them?? >> >> Ken >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my >> suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's >> email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing >> drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I >> was mentoring last year. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra >> wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? >> >> We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also >> complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. >> >> Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can >> use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to >> delete. >> >> You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily >> updates for a while. >> >> Ken >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Cliff, Ken, >> I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in >> some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. >> The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. >> Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not >> need to be as intense. >> Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light >> housings, >> it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. >> Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case >> some of the >> components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. >> Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the >> recessed light. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post >> these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on >> registering at the forum. >> >> Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery >> bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I >> dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is >> 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different >> nominal voltages. >> >> Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think >> 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing >> a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? >> >> 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it >> is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more >> pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs >> so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on >> this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. >> >> 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end >> up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the >> acrylic lens. >> >> 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor >> controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic >> coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). >> Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. >> >> 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall >> be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a >> low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from >> the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array >> rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). >> Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support >> bracket. >> >> Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard >> machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a >> dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The >> housing might be the most expensive. >> >> Hope you guys are reading the specification. >> >> Ken >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as >> well. >> >> I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as >> well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option >> unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to >> publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could >> machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that >> could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like >> ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, >> we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as >> designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design >> drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. >> >> Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. >> >> One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >> actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just >> purchasing something like >> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >> off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. >> >> Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >> operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >> cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are >> relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >> estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 16:45:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 15:45:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1796586977.2615533.1437856420487.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <1796586977.2615533.1437856420487.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: YEs I could do that Alan as long as the non connection to the pin is not interpreted by the LED circuit as zero voltage signal for not light. We need to gets Ken's feedback on how hard it would be to have a dip switch on the PWB to enable or disable the dimming option. See my comments on the Forum on dimming. On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > If we did have dimming, is that going to be a problem for those > who don't want it? As I understand it, Cliff doesn't have enough > pins on his existing connectors; but wouldn't it be a matter of > just not wiring up the dimming option & using his original connectors? > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:20 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. From > feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but > if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate > it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A > understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Cliff, > > Dimming, I thought we deleted this? > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 > watts. > > Puts out a lot of light. > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light > either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so > that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. > Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. > Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I > don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a > neoprene flat gadget. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped > recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing > cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better > because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass > surrounding the light fitting. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are > describing and we can talk. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Looks a good solid light Cliff. > On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > secured > with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > my situation. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of > the light. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Cliff, > > How do I look at them?? > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's > email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing > drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I > was mentoring last year. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring > and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can > use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to > delete. > > You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily > updates for a while. > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Cliff, Ken, > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > need to be as intense. > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings, > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of the > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the > recessed light. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on > registering at the forum. > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I > dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is > 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing > a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it > is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more > pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs > so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on > this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the > acrylic lens. > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic > coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). > Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a > low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from > the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). > Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support > bracket. > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a > dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > Ken > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. > > I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless > they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish > construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine > or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be > easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB > www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and > build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then > we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, > circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually > build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational > operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the > cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are > relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 17:17:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 21:17:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own?purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 17:58:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 21:58:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Ken,?in your latest document you are stating....Thereare a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18,28 and 40 degreesLooking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam.To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angleto suit.There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.html I can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first?Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own?purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 18:25:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 22:25:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> More reflector thoughts.Maybe just design for the 40 degree relector & use a spacerunder the emitter to lift it nearer to the lense for the 80 degrees,& find a reflector (if needed) to suit. Would need enough length of wiringbetween driver & emitter to be able to do this.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken,?in your latest document you are stating....Thereare a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18,28 and 40 degreesLooking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam.To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angleto suit.There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.html I can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first?Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own?purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 19:33:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 11:33:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 19:37:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 11:37:22 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55b41db9.c765460a.f3aa8.ffff956e@mx.google.com> A 40 degree reflector will not give you 40 degrees in water with a flat lens. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 10:26 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights More reflector thoughts. Maybe just design for the 40 degree relector & use a spacer under the emitter to lift it nearer to the lense for the 80 degrees, & find a reflector (if needed) to suit. Would need enough length of wiring between driver & emitter to be able to do this. Alan _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degrees Looking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood. It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular. I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam. To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angle to suit. There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights & bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle. Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter. http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.html I can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first? Alan _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger & have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for different brands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whatever connector or blue globe cable gland we want. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 19:53:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 19:53:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> These are standard reflectors made for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now?s the time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120 degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, haven?t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the present issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degrees Looking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood. It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular. I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam. To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angle to suit. There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights & bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle. Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter. http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.html I can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first? Alan _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger & have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for different brands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whatever connector or blue globe cable gland we want. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 19:54:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 19:54:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003901d0c735$4a99c550$dfcd4ff0$@cfl.rr.com> No problem with the extra wire length, 2.10 amperes is the current to the array. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 6:26 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights More reflector thoughts. Maybe just design for the 40 degree relector & use a spacer under the emitter to lift it nearer to the lense for the 80 degrees, & find a reflector (if needed) to suit. Would need enough length of wiring between driver & emitter to be able to do this. Alan _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degrees Looking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood. It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular. I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam. To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angle to suit. There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights & bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle. Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter. http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.html I can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first? Alan _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger & have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for different brands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whatever connector or blue globe cable gland we want. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 19:56:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 19:56:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003e01d0c735$8cf1df00$a6d59d00$@cfl.rr.com> It would be simpler (not much), you like dimming? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 19:57:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 19:57:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <004301d0c735$ab5bf930$0213eb90$@cfl.rr.com> Hugh, You said you had some concerns about your present light? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 19:58:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 19:58:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 20:11:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 12:11:27 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003e01d0c735$8cf1df00$a6d59d00$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <003e01d0c735$8cf1df00$a6d59d00$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b425b6.4a66420a.e984b.ffffeaf5@mx.google.com> I would prefer switchable then you have a known brightness for photography. If it is dimmable you don?t know where you are. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:57 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights It would be simpler (not much), you like dimming? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 20:17:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 00:17:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003901d0c735$4a99c550$dfcd4ff0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003901d0c735$4a99c550$dfcd4ff0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <214628446.2863147.1437869822437.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ken,I posted on the forum a similar suggestion to Hugh.How about just a switch between the required voltages forthe 5,000 lm & 10,000 lumen in the cabin & an IC in the lighthousing detecting the voltage & routing the current to one of two drivers.I am not sure how many people are going on to the forum, there seemsto be a bigger pool of experience out here. Good place for postingfiles though.Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv8436884730 #yiv8436884730 -- _filtered #yiv8436884730 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8436884730 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8436884730 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv8436884730 #yiv8436884730 p.yiv8436884730MsoNormal, #yiv8436884730 li.yiv8436884730MsoNormal, #yiv8436884730 div.yiv8436884730MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8436884730 a:link, #yiv8436884730 span.yiv8436884730MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8436884730 a:visited, #yiv8436884730 span.yiv8436884730MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8436884730 span {}#yiv8436884730 span.yiv8436884730EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8436884730 .yiv8436884730MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv8436884730 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv8436884730 div.yiv8436884730WordSection1 {}#yiv8436884730 No problem with the extra wire length, 2.10 amperes is the current to the array. ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 6:26 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?More reflector thoughts.Maybe just design for the 40 degree relector & use a spacerunder the emitter to lift it nearer to the lense for the 80 degrees,& find a reflector (if needed) to suit. Would need enough length of wiringbetween driver & emitter to be able to do this.Alan ? ?From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken,?in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degreesLooking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam.To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angleto suit.There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first?Alan ?From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own?purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan ? ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. ?Cliff ?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 20:19:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 17:19:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM #yiv7943653100 #yiv7943653100 -- _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv7943653100 #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 {} #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not actually found the cost yet. ?They are made out of plastic but metal ones are also available. ?Have you a suggestion? Now?s the time to make changes. ?The beam angle of the array is 120 degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, haven?t looked at that problem. ?Take a look at the spec on the web forum. New release today from Cliff and I. ?Dimming seems to be the present issue, to dim or not to dim. ?Appreciate your comments, ?Ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken,?in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degreesLooking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam.To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angleto suit.There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first?AlanFrom: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own?purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan ? ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. ?Cliff ?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 20:30:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 00:30:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1519319296.2695285.1437870645354.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Huge library of resource on dive lighting on the candle power forum.DIVE LIGHTING LIBRARY | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | DIVE LIGHTING LIBRARYTOGGLE SWITCH: http://si.farnell.com/otto-controls/t7111b5/switch-spst-ip68/dp/1138735 (ON/OFF- for other posibilities check catalogue (ON-OFF-ON ; momentary ON-OFF-ON,......) http://www.apem.com/toggles.html APEM USA - general http://www.ottoexcellence.com/sh... | | | | View on www.candlepowerforums.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I find that I either need light or not.? I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM #yiv7943653100 #yiv7943653100 -- ? ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv7943653100? #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal ??? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink ??? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed ??? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault ??? {font-size:10.0pt;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 ??? {} #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not actually found the cost yet. ?They are made out of plastic but metal ones are also available. ?Have you a suggestion? Now?s the time to make changes. ?The beam angle of the array is 120 degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, haven?t looked at that problem.? ?Take a look at the spec on the web forum. New release today from Cliff and I. ?Dimming seems to be the present issue, to dim or not to dim. ?Appreciate your comments, ?Ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken,?in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degreesLooking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam.To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angleto suit.There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first?AlanFrom: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own?purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan ? ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ?Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. ?Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan ?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. ?Cliff ?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 20:34:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 12:34:42 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 21:20:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 01:20:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for that info Hugh.This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue.How hard is thermal rollback Ken???.....? General Notes and WarningsThe Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermalrollback, where its light output diminishes to protect thelight from overheating. This is normal and purposelydesigned to protect the LEDs from being damaged byexcess heat buildup while running in air. The light willreturn to full brightness once it is submerged in wateror it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback willnot happen when light is being operated in water undernormal usage. WARNINGWhen the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the bodymay reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. Thesetemperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light ishandled without protective clothing. Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv0983907785 #yiv0983907785 -- _filtered #yiv0983907785 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0983907785 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0983907785 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0983907785 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv0983907785 #yiv0983907785 p.yiv0983907785MsoNormal, #yiv0983907785 li.yiv0983907785MsoNormal, #yiv0983907785 div.yiv0983907785MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0983907785 a:link, #yiv0983907785 span.yiv0983907785MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0983907785 a:visited, #yiv0983907785 span.yiv0983907785MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0983907785 p.yiv0983907785MsoAcetate, #yiv0983907785 li.yiv0983907785MsoAcetate, #yiv0983907785 div.yiv0983907785MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv0983907785 span.yiv0983907785BalloonTextChar {}#yiv0983907785 span.yiv0983907785EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0983907785 span.yiv0983907785EmailStyle20 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0983907785 span.yiv0983907785EmailStyle21 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0983907785 .yiv0983907785MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv0983907785 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv0983907785 div.yiv0983907785WordSection1 {}#yiv0983907785 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees120 degrees gives you 80 degreesIt doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc.? Also my reflector is round with a square LED.Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea.? With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. ?It will need serious fins.? Needs to be idiot proof.One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc.I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that.? I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ?ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Re- Dimming.Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable.? Then you can have a 3 position switch.? Is it simpler?Hugh ? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming.?From feedback, we were two for and two against.? ?I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it.? This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions.? A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus.? ?Cliff ?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,?Dimming, I thought we deleted this?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. ?Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts.?Puts out a lot of light. ?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.??I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 21:29:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 20:29:58 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position. Cliff On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be > good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM > > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 -- > > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 > 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} > #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 > {color:#1F497D;} > #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 > {} > #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made > for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not > actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but > metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now?s the > time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120 > degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing > through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, > haven?t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web > forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the > present > issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your > comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On > Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, in your latest > document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors > made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 > degreesLooking on my > favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam > angles... > > 3 with 85 degree > flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 > with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round > 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of > being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide > or narrow beam.To get the 80 > degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the > emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to > get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow > we could then reduce the angleto > suit.There are miriads > of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on > reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights > so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux > 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter. > http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI > can do an > extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction > first?AlanFrom: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 > AM > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring > for the lense could easily be made larger > &have holes drilled > for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for > there own purposes. Also > noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple > options for differentbrands of > connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic > housing for whateverconnector or blue > globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Alan, my thinking > is that with the flange, you could mount the light either > way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP > recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the > outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole > were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does > reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed > flange. I don't see any problem with either approach > to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat > gadget. > Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: > > Cliff,I was thinking of > fitting the light in to a bowl > shapedrecess in the > fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were > proposingcutting a hole out > & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is > betterbecause my idea > would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the > fiberglasssurrounding the > light fitting.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Alan, I am visual > kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing > and we can talk. > Cliff > On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > wrote: Looks a good solid > light Cliff.On looking at the > perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking > weneed a back entry > for the purposes of mounting in to a > housingin the fairing as > you have requested in your list.I am looking at > mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the > shape of the light in the > molding to receive it. If there was a > threadedextension on the > back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > securedwith a nut. This > would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks > inmy > situation.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Ken, if you go to > Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a > short video of the light. > Cliff > On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at > them?? Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Now that Jon has > the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site > called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the > site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 > Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was > mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote:Doing the dimming > electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and > where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the > wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would > require 4 wires. Personally I also > like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use > it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff > would like to delete. You guys be sure to > keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for > a while. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Cliff, > Ken,I like the dimming > option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light > insome low visibility > conditions where there is a lot of back > scatter.The 5,000 lumen > option may act like a fog > light.Also I am thinking > of having lights mounted to the side which may > notneed to be as > intense.Depth rating.... > looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings,it seems simple to > achieve a reasonable depth without much more > cost.Potting the > board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of thecomponents needed > to get rid of a bit of > heat.Mechanical > housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of > the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, good first > pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation > code back yet on registering at the > forum. Item 2.1 DC > Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 > thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC > my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a > single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth > Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know > Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else > shooting for more than > 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I > would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is > easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go > with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on > installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off > for each light. I could go either way on this but in the > spirit of KISS, I vote to omit > dimming. 8.3 Ports I would > change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs > to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring > Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on > hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept > for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word > coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical > Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted > cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed > in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the > flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 > lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for > an optional SS yoke style support bracket. > Material: Hard > anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves > 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than > 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: Cost is critical. > The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are > reading the specification. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Jon, thanks for > setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. I agree low cost > is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an > option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to > keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a > 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have > machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that > could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online > sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and > DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a > prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as > designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that > includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list > and test > results. Getting a > consciences on the design spec is the first > step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, > 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > My > three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for > this project will be how many people actually build/use > it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by > psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements > for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi > capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, > let's remember that "cheap", "low > cost", and "good price" are relative terms > for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling > is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 21:41:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 01:41:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> So Cliff,are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, providedthere are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. Howeverif Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimmingI think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater;we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hank, I am with you on this.? I think the dimmer overly?complicates the lite.? In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position.Cliff On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I find that I either need light or not.? I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ?Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM ?#yiv7943653100 ?#yiv7943653100 -- ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 ?11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 ?5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} ?#yiv7943653100 ?#yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 ?li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 ?div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal ? ? ? ? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} ?#yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 ?span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink ? ? ? ? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} ?#yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 ?span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed ? ? ? ? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} ?#yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 ? ? ? ? {color:#1F497D;} ?#yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault ? ? ? ? {font-size:10.0pt;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} ?#yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 ? ? ? ? {} ?#yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made ?for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not ?actually found the cost yet.? They are made out of plastic but ?metal ones are also available.? Have you a suggestion? Now?s the ?time to make changes.? The beam angle of the array is 120 ?degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing ?through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, ?haven?t looked at that problem.? ?Take a look at the spec on the web ?forum. New release today from Cliff and I.? Dimming seems to be the present ?issue, to dim or not to dim.? Appreciate your ?comments, ?Ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles ?[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On ?Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ?Ken,?in your latest ?document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors ?made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 ?degreesLooking on my ?favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam ?angles... ?3 with 85 degree ?flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 ?with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round ?80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of ?being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide ?or narrow beam.To get the 80 ?degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the ?emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to ?get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow ?we could then reduce the angleto ?suit.There are miriads ?of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on ?reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights ?so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux ?80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an ?extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction ?first?AlanFrom: Alan James via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 ?AM ?Subject: ?Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,the retaining ring ?for the lense could easily be made larger ?&have holes drilled ?for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for ?there own?purposes. Also ?noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple ?options for differentbrands of ?connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic ?housing for whateverconnector or blue ?globe cable gland we want.Alan ? ?From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ?Alan, my thinking ?is that with the flange, you could mount the light either ?way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP ?recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the ?outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole ?were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does ?reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was ?thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed ?flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach ?to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat ?gadget. ??Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, ?2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ? ?Cliff,I was thinking of ?fitting the light in to a bowl ?shapedrecess in the ?fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were ?proposingcutting a hole out ?& fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is ?betterbecause my idea ?would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the ?fiberglasssurrounding the ?light fitting.Alan ??From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ??Alan, I am visual ?kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing ?and we can talk. ??Cliff ??On Fri, Jul 24, ?2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Looks a good solid ?light Cliff.On looking at the ?perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking ?weneed a back entry ?for the purposes of mounting in to a ?housingin the fairing as ?you have requested in your list.I am looking at ?mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the ?shape?of the light in the ?molding to receive it. If there was a ?threadedextension on the ?back of the light it could slot through a hole & be ?securedwith a nut. This ?would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks ?inmy ?situation.Alan ??From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ??Ken, if you go to ?Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, ?or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a ?short video of the light. ??Cliff ??On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at ?them???Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, ?July 23, 2015 4:18 PM ?To: Personal ?Submersibles General Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Now that Jon has ?the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my ?suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site ?called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the ?site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 ?Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was ?mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote:Doing the dimming ?electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and ?where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the ?wires in the cable for use as an option this also ?complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would ?require 4 wires.?Personally I also ?like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use ?it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff ?would like to delete.?You guys be sure to ?keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for ?a while.?Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Cliff, ?Ken,I like the dimming ?option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light ?insome low visibility ?conditions where there is a lot of back ?scatter.The 5,000 lumen ?option may act like a fog ?light.Also I am thinking ?of having lights mounted to the side which may ?notneed to be as ?intense.Depth rating.... ?looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light ?housings,it seems simple to ?achieve a reasonable depth without much more ?cost.Potting the ?board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case ?some of thecomponents needed ?to get rid of a bit of ?heat.Mechanical ?housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of ?the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Ken, good first ?pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post ?these here as I have not been able to get the activation ?code back yet on registering at the ?forum.?Item 2.1 DC ?Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery ?bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 ?thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC ?my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a ?single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different ?nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth ?Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think ?500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know ?Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else ?shooting for more than ?500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I ?would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is ?easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go ?with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on ?installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off ?for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the ?spirit of KISS, I vote to omit ?dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would ?change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end ?up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs ?to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring ?Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor ?controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on ?hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept ?for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word ?coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical ?Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall ?be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted ?cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed ?in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the ?flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array ?rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 ?lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for ?an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ??Material: Hard ?anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard ?machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves ?7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than ?6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote:?Cost is critical. ?The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The ?housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are ?reading the specification.?Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, ?July 23, 2015 10:18 AM ?To: Personal ?Submersibles General Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Jon, thanks for ?setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as ?well.??I agree low cost ?is important but having a functioning light is as well.? ?OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an ?option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to ?keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a ?1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have ?machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that ?could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online ?sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and ?DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a ?prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as ?designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that ?includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list ?and test ?results.??Getting a ?consciences?on the design spec is the first ?step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, ?2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?My ?three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. ?One measure of a success for ?this project will be how many people actually build/use ?it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing ?something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd ?off the shelf then it's real world application by ?psubbers may be limited. ?Over-spec'ing the design above requirements ?for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi ?capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, ?let's remember that "cheap", "low ?cost", and "good price" are relative terms ?for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic ?estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling ?is required. ?Jon ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 22:01:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 21:01:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive 10000 lumen light that we could DIY fabricate. I am thinking multiple lights per boat. I would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on and off individual lights. That would be the extent of the control. To me the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W. This is three times the power of my 5000 lumen light. I like the idea of the circuit measuring temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified. This is going to be a small enclosure. As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot of dual components. So to me we should revert back to no dimming. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > So Cliff, > are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, provided > there are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. However > if Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimming > I think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar > heater; > we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the > lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need > to roll back to the no dimmer position. > Cliff > > > > On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be > good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM > > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 -- > > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 > 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} > #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 > {color:#1F497D;} > #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 > {} > #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made > for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not > actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but > metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now?s the > time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120 > degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing > through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, > haven?t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web > forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the > present > issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your > comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On > Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, in your latest > document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors > made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 > degreesLooking on my > favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam > angles... > > 3 with 85 degree > flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 > with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round > 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of > being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide > or narrow beam.To get the 80 > degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the > emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to > get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow > we could then reduce the angleto > suit.There are miriads > of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on > reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights > so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux > 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter. > http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI > can do an > extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction > first?AlanFrom: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 > AM > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring > for the lense could easily be made larger > &have holes drilled > for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for > there own purposes. Also > noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple > options for differentbrands of > connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic > housing for whateverconnector or blue > globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Alan, my thinking > is that with the flange, you could mount the light either > way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP > recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the > outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole > were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does > reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed > flange. I don't see any problem with either approach > to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat > gadget. > Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > Cliff,I was thinking of > fitting the light in to a bowl > shapedrecess in the > fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were > proposingcutting a hole out > & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is > betterbecause my idea > would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the > fiberglasssurrounding the > light fitting.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Alan, I am visual > kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing > and we can talk. > Cliff > On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: Looks a good solid > light Cliff.On looking at the > perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking > weneed a back entry > for the purposes of mounting in to a > housingin the fairing as > you have requested in your list.I am looking at > mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the > shape of the light in the > molding to receive it. If there was a > threadedextension on the > back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > securedwith a nut. This > would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks > inmy > situation.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Ken, if you go to > Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a > short video of the light. > Cliff > On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at > them?? Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Now that Jon has > the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site > called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the > site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 > Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was > mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote:Doing the dimming > electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and > where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the > wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would > require 4 wires. Personally I also > like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use > it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff > would like to delete. You guys be sure to > keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for > a while. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Cliff, > Ken,I like the dimming > option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light > insome low visibility > conditions where there is a lot of back > scatter.The 5,000 lumen > option may act like a fog > light.Also I am thinking > of having lights mounted to the side which may > notneed to be as > intense.Depth rating.... > looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings,it seems simple to > achieve a reasonable depth without much more > cost.Potting the > board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of thecomponents needed > to get rid of a bit of > heat.Mechanical > housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of > the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, good first > pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation > code back yet on registering at the > forum. Item 2.1 DC > Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 > thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC > my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a > single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth > Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know > Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else > shooting for more than > 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I > would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is > easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go > with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on > installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off > for each light. I could go either way on this but in the > spirit of KISS, I vote to omit > dimming. 8.3 Ports I would > change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs > to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring > Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on > hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept > for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word > coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical > Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted > cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed > in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the > flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 > lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for > an optional SS yoke style support bracket. > Material: Hard > anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves > 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than > 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: Cost is critical. > The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are > reading the specification. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Jon, thanks for > setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. I agree low cost > is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an > option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to > keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a > 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have > machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that > could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online > sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and > DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a > prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as > designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that > includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list > and test > results. Getting a > consciences on the design spec is the first > step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, > 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > My > three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for > this project will be how many people actually build/use > it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by > psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements > for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi > capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, > let's remember that "cheap", "low > cost", and "good price" are relative terms > for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling > is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 22:36:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 02:36:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <950248591.1510535.1437878198317.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,?I think we are getting confused with dimming & switching.?I don't mind just switching between 10 & 5000 lm rather than dimming it down progressively.Like you I am wanting multiple lights; some out the side but at a lower power than?10,000 lm.?However will concede to a single 10,000 lm light if that's what the majority wants.Have a 1000lm light pulled apart at the moment & the driver is miniscule. About 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4''.Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive?10000 lumen?light that we could DIY fabricate.? I am thinking multiple lights per boat.? I would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on and off individual lights.?That would be the extent of the control.? To me the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W.? This is three times the power?of my 5000 lumen light.? I like the idea of the circuit measuring temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified.? This is going to be a small enclosure.? As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot of dual components.? So to me we should revert back to no dimming. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So Cliff,are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, providedthere are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. Howeverif Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimmingI think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater;we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hank, I am with you on this.? I think the dimmer overly?complicates the lite.? In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position.Cliff On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I find that I either need light or not.? I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ?Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM ?#yiv7943653100 ?#yiv7943653100 -- ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 ?11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 ?5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} ?#yiv7943653100 ?#yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 ?li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 ?div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal ? ? ? ? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} ?#yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 ?span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink ? ? ? ? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} ?#yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 ?span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed ? ? ? ? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} ?#yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 ? ? ? ? {color:#1F497D;} ?#yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault ? ? ? ? {font-size:10.0pt;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} ?#yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 ? ? ? ? {} ?#yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made ?for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not ?actually found the cost yet.? They are made out of plastic but ?metal ones are also available.? Have you a suggestion? Now?s the ?time to make changes.? The beam angle of the array is 120 ?degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing ?through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, ?haven?t looked at that problem.? ?Take a look at the spec on the web ?forum. New release today from Cliff and I.? Dimming seems to be the present ?issue, to dim or not to dim.? Appreciate your ?comments, ?Ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles ?[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On ?Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ?Ken,?in your latest ?document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors ?made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 ?degreesLooking on my ?favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam ?angles... ?3 with 85 degree ?flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 ?with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round ?80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of ?being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide ?or narrow beam.To get the 80 ?degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the ?emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to ?get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow ?we could then reduce the angleto ?suit.There are miriads ?of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on ?reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights ?so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux ?80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an ?extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction ?first?AlanFrom: Alan James via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 ?AM ?Subject: ?Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,the retaining ring ?for the lense could easily be made larger ?&have holes drilled ?for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for ?there own?purposes. Also ?noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple ?options for differentbrands of ?connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic ?housing for whateverconnector or blue ?globe cable gland we want.Alan ? ?From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ?Alan, my thinking ?is that with the flange, you could mount the light either ?way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP ?recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the ?outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole ?were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does ?reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was ?thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed ?flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach ?to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat ?gadget. ??Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, ?2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ? ?Cliff,I was thinking of ?fitting the light in to a bowl ?shapedrecess in the ?fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were ?proposingcutting a hole out ?& fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is ?betterbecause my idea ?would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the ?fiberglasssurrounding the ?light fitting.Alan ??From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ??Alan, I am visual ?kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing ?and we can talk. ??Cliff ??On Fri, Jul 24, ?2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Looks a good solid ?light Cliff.On looking at the ?perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking ?weneed a back entry ?for the purposes of mounting in to a ?housingin the fairing as ?you have requested in your list.I am looking at ?mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the ?shape?of the light in the ?molding to receive it. If there was a ?threadedextension on the ?back of the light it could slot through a hole & be ?securedwith a nut. This ?would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks ?inmy ?situation.Alan ??From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ??Ken, if you go to ?Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, ?or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a ?short video of the light. ??Cliff ??On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at ?them???Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, ?July 23, 2015 4:18 PM ?To: Personal ?Submersibles General Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Now that Jon has ?the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my ?suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site ?called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the ?site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 ?Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was ?mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote:Doing the dimming ?electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and ?where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the ?wires in the cable for use as an option this also ?complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would ?require 4 wires.?Personally I also ?like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use ?it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff ?would like to delete.?You guys be sure to ?keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for ?a while.?Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Cliff, ?Ken,I like the dimming ?option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light ?insome low visibility ?conditions where there is a lot of back ?scatter.The 5,000 lumen ?option may act like a fog ?light.Also I am thinking ?of having lights mounted to the side which may ?notneed to be as ?intense.Depth rating.... ?looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light ?housings,it seems simple to ?achieve a reasonable depth without much more ?cost.Potting the ?board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case ?some of thecomponents needed ?to get rid of a bit of ?heat.Mechanical ?housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of ?the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Ken, good first ?pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post ?these here as I have not been able to get the activation ?code back yet on registering at the ?forum.?Item 2.1 DC ?Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery ?bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 ?thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC ?my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a ?single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different ?nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth ?Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think ?500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know ?Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else ?shooting for more than ?500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I ?would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is ?easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go ?with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on ?installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off ?for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the ?spirit of KISS, I vote to omit ?dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would ?change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end ?up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs ?to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring ?Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor ?controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on ?hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept ?for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word ?coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical ?Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall ?be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted ?cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed ?in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the ?flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array ?rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 ?lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for ?an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ??Material: Hard ?anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard ?machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves ?7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than ?6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote:?Cost is critical. ?The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The ?housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are ?reading the specification.?Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, ?July 23, 2015 10:18 AM ?To: Personal ?Submersibles General Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Jon, thanks for ?setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as ?well.??I agree low cost ?is important but having a functioning light is as well.? ?OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an ?option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to ?keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a ?1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have ?machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that ?could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online ?sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and ?DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a ?prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as ?designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that ?includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list ?and test ?results.??Getting a ?consciences?on the design spec is the first ?step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, ?2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?My ?three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. ?One measure of a success for ?this project will be how many people actually build/use ?it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing ?something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd ?off the shelf then it's real world application by ?psubbers may be limited. ?Over-spec'ing the design above requirements ?for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi ?capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, ?let's remember that "cheap", "low ?cost", and "good price" are relative terms ?for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic ?estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling ?is required. ?Jon ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 22:44:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 14:44:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55b44989.ac26460a.59b2.ffff9da2@mx.google.com> Cliff, I have a question or two. As the critical angle for glass and acrylic is about 40-41 degrees and these LED?s are fairly wide (29mm) so if the glass is too close to the chip there will be a lot of reflected light coming back down onto the chip itself. Is this likely to heat up the light emitting surface detrimentally. I have just been playing around with angles etc and looking at maximizing the reflector and lens. To me it looks as though the safest is to have the reflector about 1 inch high with a shallow angle. I have got lines and calcs all over the place and confusing myself so you having put it through young boffins with mentoring, did you consider this aspect and how did you attack it? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 2:02 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive 10000 lumen light that we could DIY fabricate. I am thinking multiple lights per boat. I would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on and off individual lights. That would be the extent of the control. To me the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W. This is three times the power of my 5000 lumen light. I like the idea of the circuit measuring temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified. This is going to be a small enclosure. As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot of dual components. So to me we should revert back to no dimming. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So Cliff, are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, provided there are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. However if Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimming I think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater; we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position. Cliff On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM #yiv7943653100 #yiv7943653100 -- _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv7943653100 #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 {} #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now?s the time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120 degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, haven?t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the present issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degreesLooking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam.To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angleto suit.There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first?AlanFrom: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 22:48:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 21:48:58 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <950248591.1510535.1437878198317.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <950248591.1510535.1437878198317.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are you thinking about controlling the switching from inside the hull or just via a dip switch on the PWB? Cliff > On Jul 25, 2015, at 9:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > I think we are getting confused with dimming & switching. > I don't mind just switching between 10 & 5000 lm rather than dimming it down progressively. > Like you I am wanting multiple lights; some out the side but at a lower power than 10,000 lm. > However will concede to a single 10,000 lm light if that's what the majority wants. > Have a 1000lm light pulled apart at the moment & the driver is miniscule. > About 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4''. > Cheers Alan > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive 10000 lumen light that we could DIY fabricate. I am thinking multiple lights per boat. I would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on and off individual lights. That would be the extent of the control. To me the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W. This is three times the power of my 5000 lumen light. I like the idea of the circuit measuring temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified. This is going to be a small enclosure. As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot of dual components. So to me we should revert back to no dimming. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > So Cliff, > are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, provided > there are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. However > if Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimming > I think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater; > we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure. > Alan > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position. > Cliff > > > > On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM > > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 -- > > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 > 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} > #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 > {color:#1F497D;} > #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 > {} > #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made > for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not > actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but > metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now?s the > time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120 > degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing > through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, > haven?t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web > forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the present > issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your > comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On > Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, in your latest > document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors > made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 > degreesLooking on my > favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam > angles... > > 3 with 85 degree > flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 > with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round > 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of > being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide > or narrow beam.To get the 80 > degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the > emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to > get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow > we could then reduce the angleto > suit.There are miriads > of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on > reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights > so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux > 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an > extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction > first?AlanFrom: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 > AM > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring > for the lense could easily be made larger > &have holes drilled > for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for > there own purposes. Also > noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple > options for differentbrands of > connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic > housing for whateverconnector or blue > globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Alan, my thinking > is that with the flange, you could mount the light either > way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP > recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the > outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole > were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does > reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed > flange. I don't see any problem with either approach > to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat > gadget. > Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Cliff,I was thinking of > fitting the light in to a bowl > shapedrecess in the > fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were > proposingcutting a hole out > & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is > betterbecause my idea > would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the > fiberglasssurrounding the > light fitting.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Alan, I am visual > kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing > and we can talk. > Cliff > On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid > light Cliff.On looking at the > perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking > weneed a back entry > for the purposes of mounting in to a > housingin the fairing as > you have requested in your list.I am looking at > mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the > shape of the light in the > molding to receive it. If there was a > threadedextension on the > back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > securedwith a nut. This > would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks > inmy > situation.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Ken, if you go to > Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a > short video of the light. > Cliff > On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at > them?? Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Now that Jon has > the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site > called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the > site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 > Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was > mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote:Doing the dimming > electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and > where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the > wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would > require 4 wires. Personally I also > like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use > it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff > would like to delete. You guys be sure to > keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for > a while. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Cliff, > Ken,I like the dimming > option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light > insome low visibility > conditions where there is a lot of back > scatter.The 5,000 lumen > option may act like a fog > light.Also I am thinking > of having lights mounted to the side which may > notneed to be as > intense.Depth rating.... > looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings,it seems simple to > achieve a reasonable depth without much more > cost.Potting the > board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of thecomponents needed > to get rid of a bit of > heat.Mechanical > housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of > the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, good first > pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation > code back yet on registering at the > forum. Item 2.1 DC > Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 > thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC > my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a > single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth > Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know > Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else > shooting for more than > 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I > would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is > easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go > with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on > installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off > for each light. I could go either way on this but in the > spirit of KISS, I vote to omit > dimming. 8.3 Ports I would > change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs > to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring > Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on > hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept > for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word > coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical > Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted > cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed > in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the > flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 > lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for > an optional SS yoke style support bracket. > Material: Hard > anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves > 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than > 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: Cost is critical. > The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are > reading the specification. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Jon, thanks for > setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. I agree low cost > is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an > option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to > keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a > 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have > machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that > could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online > sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and > DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a > prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as > designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that > includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list > and test > results. Getting a > consciences on the design spec is the first > step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, > 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > My > three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for > this project will be how many people actually build/use > it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by > psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements > for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi > capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, > let's remember that "cheap", "low > cost", and "good price" are relative terms > for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling > is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 23:08:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 23:08:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <214628446.2863147.1437869822437.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003901d0c735$4a99c550$dfcd4ff0$@cfl.rr.com> <214628446.2863147.1437869822437.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55B44F36.4000200@psubs.org> Try to design on the forum if you can. I know it's more convenient to use email but soon we may have no option but the webforum so it would be good to start using it and getting use to it. Plus, the forum keeps documents and files archived. Jon On 7/25/2015 8:17 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Ken, > I posted on the forum a similar suggestion to Hugh. > How about just a switch between the required voltages for > the 5,000 lm & 10,000 lumen in the cabin & an IC in the light > housing detecting the voltage & routing the current to one of two drivers. > I am not sure how many people are going on to the forum, there seems > to be a bigger pool of experience out here. Good place for posting > files though. > Alan > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 23:11:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 22:11:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b44989.ac26460a.59b2.ffff9da2@mx.google.com> References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <55b44989.ac26460a.59b2.ffff9da2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hugh, we did not look at this aspect. My lens is flat and very close the emitter. The light seems to work fine but this is very subjective without any measurements. Like you, they took the design and put in an pool and it looks fine. The guys were MEs focused on the enclosure strength and heat transfer aspect. Any suggestions on the reflectors will be welcome. We need to find OTS reflectors that match the light. Alan has sent some info and Ken is also has some info on compatible reflectors that he is going to send my way. I am hoping that who ever designed the mating reflectors were optics guys and have sorted much of this out. I have enough research projects on my hands without delving into optics. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > I have a question or two. As the critical angle for glass and acrylic is > about 40-41 degrees and these LED?s are fairly wide (29mm) so if the glass > is too close to the chip there will be a lot of reflected light coming back > down onto the chip itself. Is this likely to heat up the light emitting > surface detrimentally. I have just been playing around with angles etc and > looking at maximizing the reflector and lens. To me it looks as though the > safest is to have the reflector about 1 inch high with a shallow angle. I > have got lines and calcs all over the place and confusing myself so you > having put it through young boffins with mentoring, did you consider this > aspect and how did you attack it? Hugh > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, 26 July 2015 2:02 p.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive 10000 lumen light > that we could DIY fabricate. I am thinking multiple lights per boat. I > would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on > and off individual lights. That would be the extent of the control. To me > the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W. This is three times > the power of my 5000 lumen light. I like the idea of the circuit measuring > temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light > as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified. This is going to > be a small enclosure. As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot > of dual components. So to me we should revert back to no dimming. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > So Cliff, > > are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, provided > > there are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. However > > if Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimming > > I think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar > heater; > > we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure. > > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the > lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need > to roll back to the no dimmer position. > > Cliff > > > > > On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be > good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. > Hank > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM > > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 -- > > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 > 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} > #yiv7943653100 > #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 > div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} > #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 > span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 > {color:#1F497D;} > #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} > _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 > {} > #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made > for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not > actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but > metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now?s the > time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120 > degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing > through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, > haven?t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web > forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the > present > issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your > comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] On > Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, in your latest > document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors > made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 > degreesLooking on my > favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam > angles... > > 3 with 85 degree > flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 > with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round > 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of > being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide > or narrow beam.To get the 80 > degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the > emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to > get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow > we could then reduce the angleto > suit.There are miriads > of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on > reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights > so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux > 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter. > http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI > can do an > extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction > first?AlanFrom: Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 > AM > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring > for the lense could easily be made larger > &have holes drilled > for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for > there own purposes. Also > noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple > options for differentbrands of > connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic > housing for whateverconnector or blue > globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Alan, my thinking > is that with the flange, you could mount the light either > way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP > recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the > outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole > were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does > reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was > thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed > flange. I don't see any problem with either approach > to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat > gadget. > Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > Cliff,I was thinking of > fitting the light in to a bowl > shapedrecess in the > fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were > proposingcutting a hole out > & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is > betterbecause my idea > would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the > fiberglasssurrounding the > light fitting.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Alan, I am visual > kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing > and we can talk. > Cliff > On Fri, Jul 24, > 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: Looks a good solid > light Cliff.On looking at the > perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking > weneed a back entry > for the purposes of mounting in to a > housingin the fairing as > you have requested in your list.I am looking at > mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the > shape of the light in the > molding to receive it. If there was a > threadedextension on the > back of the light it could slot through a hole & be > securedwith a nut. This > would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks > inmy > situation.Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights > Ken, if you go to > Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, > or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a > short video of the light. > Cliff > On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at > them?? Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Now that Jon has > the forum site set up for the LED light project, my > suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site > called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the > site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 > Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was > mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote:Doing the dimming > electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and > where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the > wires in the cable for use as an option this also > complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would > require 4 wires. Personally I also > like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use > it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff > would like to delete. You guys be sure to > keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for > a while. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Cliff, > Ken,I like the dimming > option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light > insome low visibility > conditions where there is a lot of back > scatter.The 5,000 lumen > option may act like a fog > light.Also I am thinking > of having lights mounted to the side which may > notneed to be as > intense.Depth rating.... > looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light > housings,it seems simple to > achieve a reasonable depth without much more > cost.Potting the > board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case > some of thecomponents needed > to get rid of a bit of > heat.Mechanical > housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of > the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General > Discussion > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 > AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Ken, good first > pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post > these here as I have not been able to get the activation > code back yet on registering at the > forum. Item 2.1 DC > Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery > bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 > thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC > my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a > single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different > nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth > Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think > 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know > Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else > shooting for more than > 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I > would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is > easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go > with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on > installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off > for each light. I could go either way on this but in the > spirit of KISS, I vote to omit > dimming. 8.3 Ports I would > change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end > up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs > to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring > Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor > controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on > hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept > for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word > coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical > Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall > be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted > cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed > in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the > flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array > rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 > lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for > an optional SS yoke style support bracket. > Material: Hard > anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard > machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves > 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than > 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, > 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: Cost is critical. > The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The > housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are > reading the specification. Ken From: > Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, > July 23, 2015 10:18 AM > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED > Lights Jon, thanks for > setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as > well. I agree low cost > is important but having a functioning light is as well. > OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an > option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to > keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a > 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have > machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that > could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online > sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and > DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a > prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as > designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that > includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list > and test > results. Getting a > consciences on the design spec is the first > step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, > 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > My > three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for > this project will be how many people actually build/use > it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing > something like > http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd > off the shelf then it's real world application by > psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements > for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi > capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, > let's remember that "cheap", "low > cost", and "good price" are relative terms > for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic > estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling > is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 23:11:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 15:11:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <950248591.1510535.1437878198317.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55b44ff9.8342420a.a9a87.2144@mx.google.com> If it is switchable then I think it is necessary to switch from inside the hull. If it is not then not to worry. It is still hugely bright. I have the 2 x 150 watt 11400 lumen lights of mine about 1 meter apart. Both facing directly out. 10000 lumens at 94 watts is a lot better performance. If you have multiple lights then it is easy to switch one off. Also too many lights is not great for photos as you need a bit of side shadow for definition sometimes?? What is the best colour temperature for photography at the various depths? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 2:49 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Are you thinking about controlling the switching from inside the hull or just via a dip switch on the PWB? Cliff On Jul 25, 2015, at 9:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I think we are getting confused with dimming & switching. I don't mind just switching between 10 & 5000 lm rather than dimming it down progressively. Like you I am wanting multiple lights; some out the side but at a lower power than 10,000 lm. However will concede to a single 10,000 lm light if that's what the majority wants. Have a 1000lm light pulled apart at the moment & the driver is miniscule. About 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4''. Cheers Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive 10000 lumen light that we could DIY fabricate. I am thinking multiple lights per boat. I would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on and off individual lights. That would be the extent of the control. To me the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W. This is three times the power of my 5000 lumen light. I like the idea of the circuit measuring temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified. This is going to be a small enclosure. As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot of dual components. So to me we should revert back to no dimming. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So Cliff, are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, provided there are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. However if Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimming I think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater; we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hank, I am with you on this. I think the dimmer overly complicates the lite. In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position. Cliff On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I find that I either need light or not. I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM #yiv7943653100 #yiv7943653100 -- _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv7943653100 #yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 {} #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not actually found the cost yet. They are made out of plastic but metal ones are also available. Have you a suggestion? Now?s the time to make changes. The beam angle of the array is 120 degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, haven?t looked at that problem. Take a look at the spec on the web forum. New release today from Cliff and I. Dimming seems to be the present issue, to dim or not to dim. Appreciate your comments, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degreesLooking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam.To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angleto suit.There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first?AlanFrom: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff,the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger &have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for differentbrands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whateverconnector or blue globe cable gland we want.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 23:14:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 03:14:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <003401d0c735$24993980$6dcbac80$@cfl.rr.com> <1437869945.56279.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1296015076.2669285.1437874899737.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <950248591.1510535.1437878198317.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <562414097.2747982.1437880497734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I was thinking of a switch inside the hull that drops the voltage, & the voltage dropis picked up by an IC in the light housing which switches to 5000 lm.But for any thermal control?it would have to be a sensor to an IC in the light housing.Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Are you thinking about controlling the switching from inside the hull or just via a dip switch on the PWB? Cliff? On Jul 25, 2015, at 9:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?I think we are getting confused with dimming & switching.?I don't mind just switching between 10 & 5000 lm rather than dimming it down progressively.Like you I am wanting multiple lights; some out the side but at a lower power than?10,000 lm.?However will concede to a single 10,000 lm light if that's what the majority wants.Have a 1000lm light pulled apart at the moment & the driver is miniscule. About 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4''.Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive?10000 lumen?light that we could DIY fabricate.? I am thinking multiple lights per boat.? I would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on and off individual lights.?That would be the extent of the control.? To me the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W.? This is three times the power?of my 5000 lumen light.? I like the idea of the circuit measuring temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified.? This is going to be a small enclosure.? As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot of dual components.? So to me we should revert back to no dimming. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So Cliff,are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, providedthere are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. Howeverif Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimmingI think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater;we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hank, I am with you on this.? I think the dimmer overly?complicates the lite.? In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position.Cliff On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I find that I either need light or not.? I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ?Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM ?#yiv7943653100 ?#yiv7943653100 -- ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 ?11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 ?5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} ?#yiv7943653100 ?#yiv7943653100 p.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 ?li.yiv7943653100MsoNormal, #yiv7943653100 ?div.yiv7943653100MsoNormal ? ? ? ? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} ?#yiv7943653100 a:link, #yiv7943653100 ?span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlink ? ? ? ? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} ?#yiv7943653100 a:visited, #yiv7943653100 ?span.yiv7943653100MsoHyperlinkFollowed ? ? ? ? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} ?#yiv7943653100 span.yiv7943653100EmailStyle17 ? ? ? ? {color:#1F497D;} ?#yiv7943653100 .yiv7943653100MsoChpDefault ? ? ? ? {font-size:10.0pt;} ? _filtered #yiv7943653100 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} ?#yiv7943653100 div.yiv7943653100WordSection1 ? ? ? ? {} ?#yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made ?for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not ?actually found the cost yet.? They are made out of plastic but ?metal ones are also available.? Have you a suggestion? Now?s the ?time to make changes.? The beam angle of the array is 120 ?degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing ?through the proposed flat port. Don?t know by how much, ?haven?t looked at that problem.? ?Take a look at the spec on the web ?forum. New release today from Cliff and I.? Dimming seems to be the present ?issue, to dim or not to dim.? Appreciate your ?comments, ?Ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles ?[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On ?Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ?Ken,?in your latest ?document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors ?made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 ?degreesLooking on my ?favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam ?angles... ?3 with 85 degree ?flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 ?with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round ?80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of ?being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide ?or narrow beam.To get the 80 ?degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the ?emitter was near enough to the?lense to be able to ?get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow ?we could then reduce the angleto ?suit.There are miriads ?of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on ?reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights ?so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux ?80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an ?extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction ?first?AlanFrom: Alan James via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 ?AM ?Subject: ?Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,the retaining ring ?for the lense could easily be made larger ?&have holes drilled ?for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for ?there own?purposes. Also ?noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple ?options for differentbrands of ?connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic ?housing for whateverconnector or blue ?globe cable gland we want.Alan ? ?From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ?Alan, my thinking ?is that with the flange, you could mount the light either ?way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP ?recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the ?outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole ?were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does ?reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was ?thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed ?flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach ?to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat ?gadget. ??Cliff ?On Fri, Jul 24, ?2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ? ?Cliff,I was thinking of ?fitting the light in to a bowl ?shapedrecess in the ?fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were ?proposingcutting a hole out ?& fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is ?betterbecause my idea ?would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the ?fiberglasssurrounding the ?light fitting.Alan ??From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ??Alan, I am visual ?kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing ?and we can talk. ??Cliff ??On Fri, Jul 24, ?2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?Looks a good solid ?light Cliff.On looking at the ?perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking ?weneed a back entry ?for the purposes of mounting in to a ?housingin the fairing as ?you have requested in your list.I am looking at ?mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the ?shape?of the light in the ?molding to receive it. If there was a ?threadedextension on the ?back of the light it could slot through a hole & be ?securedwith a nut. This ?would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks ?inmy ?situation.Alan ??From: Cliff Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights ??Ken, if you go to ?Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, ?or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a ?short video of the light. ??Cliff ??On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at ?them???Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, ?July 23, 2015 4:18 PM ?To: Personal ?Submersibles General Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Now that Jon has ?the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my ?suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site ?called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the ?site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 ?Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was ?mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote:Doing the dimming ?electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and ?where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the ?wires in the cable for use as an option this also ?complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would ?require 4 wires.?Personally I also ?like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use ?it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff ?would like to delete.?You guys be sure to ?keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for ?a while.?Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Cliff, ?Ken,I like the dimming ?option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light ?insome low visibility ?conditions where there is a lot of back ?scatter.The 5,000 lumen ?option may act like a fog ?light.Also I am thinking ?of having lights mounted to the side which may ?notneed to be as ?intense.Depth rating.... ?looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light ?housings,it seems simple to ?achieve a reasonable depth without much more ?cost.Potting the ?board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case ?some of thecomponents needed ?to get rid of a bit of ?heat.Mechanical ?housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of ?the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?To: Personal Submersibles General ?Discussion ?Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 ?AM ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Ken, good first ?pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post ?these here as I have not been able to get the activation ?code back yet on registering at the ?forum.?Item 2.1 DC ?Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery ?bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 ?thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC ?my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a ?single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different ?nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth ?Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think ?500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know ?Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else ?shooting for more than ?500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I ?would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is ?easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go ?with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on ?installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off ?for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the ?spirit of KISS, I vote to omit ?dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would ?change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end ?up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs ?to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring ?Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor ?controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on ?hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept ?for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word ?coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical ?Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall ?be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted ?cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed ?in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the ?flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array ?rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 ?lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for ?an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ??Material: Hard ?anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard ?machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves ?7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than ?6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, ?2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote:?Cost is critical. ?The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The ?housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are ?reading the specification.?Ken?From: ?Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: Thursday, ?July 23, 2015 10:18 AM ?To: Personal ?Submersibles General Discussion ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED ?Lights?Jon, thanks for ?setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as ?well.??I agree low cost ?is important but having a functioning light is as well.? ?OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an ?option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to ?keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a ?1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have ?machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that ?could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online ?sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and ?DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a ?prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as ?designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that ?includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list ?and test ?results.??Getting a ?consciences?on the design spec is the first ?step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, ?2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? ?wrote: ?My ?three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. ?One measure of a success for ?this project will be how many people actually build/use ?it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing ?something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd ?off the shelf then it's real world application by ?psubbers may be limited. ?Over-spec'ing the design above requirements ?for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi ?capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, ?let's remember that "cheap", "low ?cost", and "good price" are relative terms ?for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic ?estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling ?is required. ?Jon ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ??_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?? ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 23:36:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 23:36:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ Message-ID: <55B455D9.9000307@psubs.org> Email is becoming a problem. It is becoming more difficult to deal with the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards. The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach that end. You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS server. This is why emails now show " via personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as it use to be. Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that. This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't block our discussion list. Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is and find a fix for it. Worse, I never know if there is really a problem or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and says they haven't seen any messages for a while. I am finding I have less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions. Therefore, I have resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various discussion forums. I am not going to shut-off the email based discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for them either. For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the answer will be, move over to the web-forum. It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the web-forum. So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now. I personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers. Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer providing technical support for it. The web based forum will become our "official" means of communication even though we (including me) may still use the email method. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 25 23:49:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 20:49:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma Message-ID: <003a01d0c756$22a507a0$67ef16e0$@telus.net> Hi all, Shelley and I met Hank at Kootenay Lake to photo and video his modified Gamma submarine. Unfortunately, the visibility was only about 4-5 feet, 6 feet at the depth of 38 feet. We had great plans for recording the sub ops and went over diver hand signals and what to expect. All for not and we just did as well as we could under the conditions available. Underwater voice communications would have been most helpful. On the way out we tried hanging onto the front of the submarine at first, but this proved too difficult for the distance required at speed. Shelley was holding one of the GoPro cameras and the lanyard slipped from her wrist and the camera went to the bottom. We spent the next 10 minutes doing a search and recovery dive trying to find this $600 new purchase. As what usually happens when we do a search and recovery dive, Shelley found it. We were back in business. I still had the other GoPro strapped to my head. We then tied a couple of loops in the trailing dive safety float line and this worked out much better. We felt that we could almost water ski behind this boat. When we arrived over the 30 foot contour we decided to submerge and see what we could do. We descended a bit faster than Hank in the sub and lost sight of him when more than 10 feet away. We settled on the bottom and then Hank dropped out of the sky right beside us... like inches away. All good. We carried on with the dive as best we could. You can see from the photos in the Psubs.org Event photos, http://www.psubs.org/projects/1403928245/gammakootenaylakejul15/, that the viz was pathetic. We did not go deeper due to the bottom being in the way without being towed quite a long way off shore. As it was, the built-in flash in the camera went off due to the low light, causing too much back scatter. We really wanted to stay shallow so that we could use available light, but such is the way of things. We were towed back to the launch ramp and after changing out of our dive gear I went out with Hank as a passenger. We travelled further along the surface to the 100 foot contour where we submerged and descended to the bottom. I only had my point-and-shoot camera, not a GoPro for this dive (don't know why), and took a few pics out the dome. After satiating ourselves with the awesome views of the mud bottom we surfaced and returned to the launch ramp. Hank's submarine is a most excellent vehicle. It has enough room for two occupants to comfortably enjoy the view out of the amazing front dome. The LED light bar lit the scene to what seemed like daylight. The high level of battery power allows for a long transit and also powers the onboard compressor to refill the compressed air tanks enroute. Hank has mastered the launch and recovery tasks with his purpose built trailer. It is of sufficient length to launch the sub from most launch ramps, but it also has a large dolly wheel so that the trailer can be detached from the truck and submerged on a tow strap if necessary. Hank installed a cat walk and hand rail on the forward part of the trailer so that he can easily detach the submarine from the trailer while he wears chest-waders. This allows him to tie the sub to the dock and then park the truck and trailer. He can launch or recover the submarine himself in five minutes with no other help or equipment needed. It was a good time and the dive was good (Shelley and I do a lot of low viz dives). A better viz day in the spring or fall would have made a more interesting photo shoot. None the less, we had a good time. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-23-15 5:09 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Hi all, I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak yesterday. I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling" Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical environments. I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical penetrators. Might be worth a try. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 00:03:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 21:03:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ Message-ID: <20150725210357.C196667D@m0048139.ppops.net> I don't blame you Jon, you can't be wasting time on stuff like that . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 23:36:57 -0400 Email is becoming a problem. It is becoming more difficult to deal with the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards. The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach that end. You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS server. This is why emails now show " via personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as it use to be. Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that. This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't block our discussion list. Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is and find a fix for it. Worse, I never know if there is really a problem or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and says they haven't seen any messages for a while. I am finding I have less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions. Therefore, I have resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various discussion forums. I am not going to shut-off the email based discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for them either. For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the answer will be, move over to the web-forum. It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the web-forum. So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now. I personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers. Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer providing technical support for it. The web based forum will become our "official" means of communication even though we (including me) may still use the email method. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 00:48:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 04:48:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ In-Reply-To: <20150725210357.C196667D@m0048139.ppops.net> References: <20150725210357.C196667D@m0048139.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1010311098.2890331.1437886129635.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jon,I get email alerts from the web forum when messages are posted.?Are they likely to be effected in a similar way?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ I don't blame you Jon, you can't be wasting time on stuff like that . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 23:36:57 -0400 Email is becoming a problem.? It is becoming more difficult to deal with the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards.? The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach that end. You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS server.? This is why emails now show " via personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as it use to be.? Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that.? This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't block our discussion list. Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is and find a fix for it.? Worse, I never know if there is really a problem or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and says they haven't seen any messages for a while.? I am finding I have less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions.? Therefore, I have resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various discussion forums.? I am not going to shut-off the email based discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for them either.? For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the answer will be, move over to the web-forum. It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the web-forum.? So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now.? I personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers. Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer providing technical support for it.? The web based forum will become our "official" means of communication even though we (including me) may still use the email method. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:33:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:33:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b425b6.4a66420a.e984b.ffffeaf5@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <003e01d0c735$8cf1df00$a6d59d00$@cfl.rr.com> <55b425b6.4a66420a.e984b.ffffeaf5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006c01d0c79f$4f1247f0$ed36d7d0$@cfl.rr.com> True, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:11 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I would prefer switchable then you have a known brightness for photography. If it is dimmable you don?t know where you are. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:57 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights It would be simpler (not much), you like dimming? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:35:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:35:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <214628446.2863147.1437869822437.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <001401d0c581$78ff6180$ 6afe2480$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <333866537.2846348.1437859072004.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1896806560.2615916.1437861503499.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <231049344.2613489.1437863137798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <003901d0c735$4a99c550$dfcd4ff0$@cfl.rr.com> <214628446.2863147.1437869822437.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007101d0c79f$84955110$8dbff330$@cfl.rr.com> Don?t quite understand switching the voltages. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Ken, I posted on the forum a similar suggestion to Hugh. How about just a switch between the required voltages for the 5,000 lm & 10,000 lumen in the cabin & an IC in the light housing detecting the voltage & routing the current to one of two drivers. I am not sure how many people are going on to the forum, there seems to be a bigger pool of experience out here. Good place for posting files though. Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights No problem with the extra wire length, 2.10 amperes is the current to the array. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 6:26 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights More reflector thoughts. Maybe just design for the 40 degree relector & use a spacer under the emitter to lift it nearer to the lense for the 80 degrees, & find a reflector (if needed) to suit. Would need enough length of wiring between driver & emitter to be able to do this. Alan _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, in your latest document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40 degrees Looking on my favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam angles... 3 with 85 degree flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood. It seems up round 80 degrees is the most popular. I like the idea of being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide or narrow beam. To get the 80 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow we could then reduce the angle to suit. There are miriads of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on reflector). These are usually for flash lights & bike lights so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle. Here is a bridgelux 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter. http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.html I can do an extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction first? Alan _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, the retaining ring for the lense could easily be made larger & have holes drilled for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for there own purposes. Also noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple options for different brands of connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic housing for whatever connector or blue globe cable gland we want. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:36:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:36:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. 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URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:38:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:38:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks for that info Hugh. This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue. How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing. Alan _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:38:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 14:38:27 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <55AEDD66.6080805@archivale.com> References: <55AEDD66.6080805@archivale.com> Message-ID: Thanks James On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Looks like they were scraping bottom as soon as submerged. > > Marc > > > On 7/21/2015 5:37 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI >> >> Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of >> dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you >> get the idea. >> Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. >> The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. >> More of an insult than a problem. >> Kind Regards >> James >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -- > Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog > Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog > Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 > Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc > Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:53:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:53:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: <55AEDD66.6080805@archivale.com> Message-ID: <001b01d0c7a2$08130d00$18392700$@cfl.rr.com> Hugh, Can you contact me off line? Like to know how the flat port impacts the beam angle. I know it does. Thanks, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of glen brown via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:38 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Thanks James On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks like they were scraping bottom as soon as submerged. Marc On 7/21/2015 5:37 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea. Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More of an insult than a problem. Kind Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:55:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:55:21 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002501d0c7a2$54baebf0$fe30c3d0$@cfl.rr.com> The web forum has the spec as an attachment. Is anybody having trouble reading it? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:38 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks for that info Hugh. This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue. How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing. Alan _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:58:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:58:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. 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URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 08:51:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 06:51:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light? Sean On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until >it cools down, take a look at the spec. > > > >Ken > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan >James via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Thanks for that info Hugh. > >This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as >you say will be a big issue. > >How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... > >General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will >go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect >the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to >protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while >running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is >submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback >will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal >usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may >reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough >to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing. > >Alan > > > > _____ > >From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > > >To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > > >Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >40 degrees gives you 30 degrees > >120 degrees gives you 80 degrees > >It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat >planes. > >The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for >the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a >square LED. > >Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I >have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. > >With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to >last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot >proof. > >One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for >temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. > >I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could >not get into it but could view it. > >Hugh > > > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken >Martindale via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. >To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? > > > >ken > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh >Fulton via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM >To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Re- Dimming. > >Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than >variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? > >Hugh > > > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff >Redus via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not >have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing >to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, >suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not >have final consensus. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via >Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Cliff, > > > >Dimming, I thought we deleted this? > >Ken > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] On Behalf Of Cliff >Redus via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via >Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about >94 watts. > > > >Puts out a lot of light. > > > >Ken > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] On Behalf Of Cliff >Redus via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light >either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess >so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP >shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the >FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the >light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the >recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to >sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >Cliff, > >I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped > >recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing > >cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better > >because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass > >surrounding the light fitting. > >Alan > > > > > _____ > > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are >describing and we can talk. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > >Looks a good solid light Cliff. > >On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > >need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > >in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > >I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > >of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > >extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be >secured > >with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > >my situation. > >Alan > > > > > _____ > > >From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on >https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED >light, you will see a short video of the light. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via >Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Cliff, > > > >How do I look at them?? > > > >Ken > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] On Behalf Of >Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my >suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in >Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and >housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME >students I was mentoring last year. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via >Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra >wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > > >We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also >complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > >Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you >can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would >like to delete. > > > >You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily >updates for a while. > > > >Ken > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] On Behalf Of Alan >James via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Cliff, Ken, > >I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > >some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > >The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > >Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > >need to be as intense. > >Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light >housings, > >it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > >Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case >some of the > >components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > >Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of >the recessed light. > >Alan > > > > > _____ > > >From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will >post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back >yet on registering at the forum. > > > >Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery >bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I >dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is >24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle >different nominal voltages. > > > >Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I >think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is >designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than >500m? > > > >6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know >it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with >more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing >multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could >go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit >dimming. > > > >8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will >end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size >the acrylic lens. > > > >9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor >controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic >coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). >Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > > >11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall >be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with >a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment >screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a >single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of >91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an >optional SS yoke style support bracket. > > > >Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard >machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a >dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > > >On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via >Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > >Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. >The housing might be the most expensive. > > > >Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > > >Ken > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] On Behalf Of >Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > >Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files >as well. > > > >I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as >well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option >unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is >to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber >could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a >PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites >like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and >DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype >that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to >the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit >diagram, parts list and test results. > > > >Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > > >Cliff > > > >On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > >My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > >One measure of a success for this project will be how many people >actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just >purchasing something like >http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd >off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be >limited. > >Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational >operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the >cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" >are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic >estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > >Jon > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 09:07:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:07:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ In-Reply-To: <1010311098.2890331.1437886129635.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20150725210357.C196667D@m0048139.ppops.net> <1010311098.2890331.1437886129635.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55B4DB76.7020009@psubs.org> I believe they are. I've already seen one instance of it but it depends upon how strict the anti-spam rules are at the receiving end. On 7/26/2015 12:48 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Jon, > I get email alerts from the web forum when messages are posted. > Are they likely to be effected in a similar way? > Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 09:22:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:22:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004801d0c7a6$26c493a0$744dbae0$@cfl.rr.com> I posted the spec on the forum so it?s easier to access. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 09:29:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:29:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> Hugh, I think the critical angle is about 48 degrees so anything greater will be reflected. Maybe a reflector of about 90 degrees will give us the maximum flood angle? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 09:39:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:39:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005201d0c7a8$760f1f00$622d5d00$@cfl.rr.com> Sean, There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array. Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise. If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though. Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work). Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light? Sean On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks for that info Hugh. This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue. How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing. Alan _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees! gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. &nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 11:33:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 17:33:51 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <490187182.2217326.1437770989060.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan What BLDC motor are you considering,are you planing on filling it with oil ect? Regards Glen On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 12:49 PM, glen brown wrote: > Alan > Thanks for the info,I am going the bore hole pump way for sure I will give > feed back . > > I think you guys have a chance today with the game we have made 8 changes > to our team, > Glen > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Glen, >> I am just about to get back in to a project using an >> RC BLDC motor as a thruster. Have a 3 hp one with >> a lot of starting torque that spins a Yamaha 4 hp prop >> without gearing. >> With regard to your pump; you will either need a suitable >> electronic speed controller with reverse, or you could build an H bridge >> circuit on the appopriate 2 of the 3 wires from the speed controller >> to the BLDC motor. There are normally 3 wires from the controller to >> the motor, the central one is for position feedback & the other two can >> be >> switched around happily for reversing the polarity. >> You will need some sort of delay so you are not wacking it in to reverse >> while it's still rotating. >> Ken is an expert on this. >> Hank had some great low priced DC pumps that he posted links to a while >> back. >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:55 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor >> >> Hank >> I think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that >> long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg. >> With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something >> I'm going to have to look into plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 >> at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use? >> Glen >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Glen, >> I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber >> bladder at the bottom. They are also sleek and made from SS. The problem >> is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure. Maybe someone knows >> a way to reverse them. If you can find a way to reverse them, please let >> me know. I would use them in a flash! >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 12:03:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:03:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report In-Reply-To: <20150720104710.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f562c8d006.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150720104710.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.f562c8d006.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <004a01d0c7bc$aba60e30$02f22a90$@telus.net> Sure enough, Scott. Those officials were able to write an interesting report for their month end meeting. When they are in their retirement home they can reminisces about the time "that suspicious submarine showed up out of nowhere". Funny. Sometimes I get the query "Are you even allowed to have a submarine?" from the general public looky-loos. Most people are genuinely interested and ask reasonable questions (or get their kid to ask). Happily in this neck of the woods officialdom has no problem, it's just a boat. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-20-15 10:47 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Tim, They had never dealt with a submarine. They thought I was a terrorist that was going to take a registered bright yellow submarine in the middle of the day light to blow up the dam with a invisible torpedo. Only reason they let me off is because I forgot my turban and my AK-47. haha. It basically translates as they don't have enough to do and they have to find some way to get their authority high for the day. Sometimes writing tickets for people with expired park tags just isn't enough. Our tax dollars hard at work. haha Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Date: Mon, July 20, 2015 9:42 am To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Scott, What kind of hassles did the rangers give you? Was it because they had never experienced a submarine diving in their lake, or was it because the boat was from out of state? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [ mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-18-15 3:58 PM To: psubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hello All, Just finished a series of dives at Beaver Lake Arkansas. As always with Corps of Engineers Lakes I got hassled alot by the rangers. We did 5 dives. The deepest of which was 85 feet. Everything functioned well except on the last dive there was so much condensation and moister, I started having electrical issues with a thruster. I believe it is from moister in the fuse block. I deffenetly have to adapt to making sure everything is sealed and water PROOF not water resistand. The visibility was better than I am used to in Kansas, but was not the best because of so much rain lately. Visibility was about 10 feet until we got down to 70 feet then it cleared up to about 20 feet of visibility. I had a support dive take footage, so I will try to get that loaded up soon. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _____ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 12:07:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:07:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004f01d0c7bd$3ba24120$b2e6c360$@telus.net> Excellent video compilation, James. Your sub is fantastic inside and out. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-21-15 2:38 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Hi All http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea. Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More of an insult than a problem. Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 11:57:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 03:57:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <005201d0c7a8$760f1f00$622d5d00$@cfl.rr.com> References: <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> <005201d0c7a8$760f1f00$622d5d00$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> Ken, you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts. If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull, & an IC that detected the difference in the light housing, then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a change from 5000 to 10000 lumens. cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sean, > > There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array. > > Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise. > > If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though. > > Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work). > > Ken > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light? > > Sean > > > > On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec. > > > Ken > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > Thanks for that info Hugh. > This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue. > How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... > General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing. > Alan > > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees > 120 degrees! gives you 80 degrees > It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. > The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. > Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. > With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. > One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc. > I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. > Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? > > ken > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Re- Dimming. > Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? > Hugh > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, > > Dimming, I thought we deleted this? > Ken > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts. > > Puts out a lot of light. > > Ken > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, > I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped > recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing > cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better > because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass > surrounding the light fitting. > Alan > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Looks a good solid light Cliff. > On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we > need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing > in the fairing as you have requested in your list. > I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape > of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded > extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured > with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in > my situation. > Alan > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > > How do I look at them?? > > Ken > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? > > We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. > > > Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. > > You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. > > Ken > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Cliff, Ken, > I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in > some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. > The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. > Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not > need to be as intense. > Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, > it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. > Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the > components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. > Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. > Alan > > From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. > > Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. > > Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? > > 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. > > 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. > > 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. > > 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. > > Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. > > Hope you guys are reading the specification. > > Ken > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. > > &nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. > > Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. > > One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. > > Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 12:35:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:35:01 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1437928501.19658.YahooMailBasic@web163202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Alan, But then you would be excluding those with only a 24v system from using the max output...I assume the wide voltage input spec is to satisfy both voltage systems. Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/26/15, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, July 26, 2015, 11:57 AM Ken,you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts.If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull,& an IC that detected the difference in the light housing,then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a changefrom 5000 to 10000 lumens.cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3279730652 #yiv3279730652 -- _filtered #yiv3279730652 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;} #yiv3279730652 #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652MsoNormal, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652MsoNormal, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 a:link, #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 a:visited, #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 pre {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msoacetate, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msoacetate, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msoacetate {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonormal, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonormal, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonormal {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msochpdefault, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msochpdefault, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msochpdefault {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonormal1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonormal1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonormal1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msoacetate1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msoacetate1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msoacetate1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlink {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlinkfollowed {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle19 {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle20 {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle21 {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle191 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle201 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle211 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652EmailStyle33 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonor, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonor, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonor {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652mson, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652mson, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652mson {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652HTMLPreformattedChar {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652EmailStyle39 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 .yiv3279730652MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652WordSection1 {} #yiv3279730652 ?Sean, ?There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array. ?Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise. ?If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though. ?Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work). ?Ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light?Sean ?On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Thanks for that info Hugh.This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue.How hard is thermal rollback Ken???.....? General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing.Alan?From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?40 degrees gives you 30 degrees120 degrees! gives you 80 degreesIt doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes.The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc.? Also my reflector is round with a square LED.Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea.? With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. ?It will need serious fins.? Needs to be idiot proof.One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc.I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that.? I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum??ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Re- Dimming.Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable.? Then you can have a 3 position switch.? Is it simpler?Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming.?From feedback, we were two for and two against.? ?I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it.? This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions.? A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus.??Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,?Dimming, I thought we deleted this?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. ?Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts.?Puts out a lot of light. ?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.?&nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 12:38:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 16:38:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma In-Reply-To: <003a01d0c756$22a507a0$67ef16e0$@telus.net> References: <003a01d0c756$22a507a0$67ef16e0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <784416445.2892284.1437928705910.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,thanks for that great dive report.You didn't mention having to untangle the prop from the float rope?The link didn't work for me & couldn't find the video on the site though.Cheers Alan From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma Hi all, Shelley and I met Hank at Kootenay Lake to photo and video his modified Gamma submarine.? Unfortunately, the visibility was only about 4-5 feet, 6 feet at the depth of 38 feet.? We had great plans for recording the sub ops and went over diver hand signals and what to expect.? All for not and we just did as well as we could under the conditions available.? Underwater voice communications would have been most helpful. On the way out we tried hanging onto the front of the submarine at first, but this proved too difficult for the distance required at speed.? Shelley was holding one of the GoPro cameras and the lanyard slipped from her wrist and the camera went to the bottom.? We spent the next 10 minutes doing a search and recovery dive trying to find this $600 new purchase.? As what usually happens when we do a search and recovery dive, Shelley found it.? We were back in business.? I still had the other GoPro strapped to my head.? We then tied a couple of loops in the trailing dive safety float line and this worked out much better.? We felt that we could almost water ski behind this boat.? When we arrived over the 30 foot contour we decided to submerge and see what we could do.? We descended a bit faster than Hank in the sub and lost sight of him when more than 10 feet away.? We settled on the bottom and then Hank dropped out of the sky right beside us... like inches away.? All good.? We carried on with the dive as best we could.? You can see from the photos in the Psubs.org Event photos, http://www.psubs.org/projects/1403928245/gammakootenaylakejul15/, that the viz was pathetic.? We did not go deeper due to the bottom being in the way without being towed quite a long way off shore.? As it was, the built-in flash in the camera went off due to the low light, causing too much back scatter.? We really wanted to stay shallow so that we could use available light, but such is the way of things.? We were towed back to the launch ramp and after changing out of our dive gear I went out with Hank as a passenger.? We travelled further along the surface to the 100 foot contour where we submerged and descended to the bottom.? I only had my point-and-shoot camera, not a GoPro for this dive (don't know why), and took a few pics out the dome.? After satiating ourselves with the awesome views of the mud bottom we surfaced and returned to the launch ramp. Hank's submarine is a most excellent vehicle.? It has enough room for two occupants to comfortably enjoy the view out of the amazing front dome.? The LED light bar lit the scene to what seemed like daylight.? The high level of battery power allows for a long transit and also powers the onboard compressor to refill the compressed air tanks enroute.? Hank has mastered the launch and recovery tasks with his purpose built trailer.? It is of sufficient length to launch the sub from most launch ramps, but it also has a large dolly wheel so that the trailer can be detached from the truck and submerged on a tow strap if necessary.? Hank installed a cat walk and hand rail on the forward part of the trailer so that he can easily detach the submarine from the trailer while he wears chest-waders. This allows him to tie the sub to the dock and then park the truck and trailer.? He can launch or recover the submarine himself in five minutes with no other help or equipment needed. It was a good time and the dive was good (Shelley and I do a lot of low viz dives).? A better viz day in the spring or fall would have made a more interesting photo shoot.? None the less, we had a good time. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-23-15 5:09 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Hi all, I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak yesterday.? I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling"? Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical environments.? I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical penetrators.? Might be worth a try. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 12:56:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 16:56:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1437928501.19658.YahooMailBasic@web163202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> <1437928501.19658.YahooMailBasic@web163202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <633218644.2825161.1437929814775.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Al,I hadn't thought of that.Am trying to make a case for having the two brightness options & are thinking of ways?that avoid the extra pin.?Another option would be to have 24v as high beam & when the IC sees 36v the light goes to lowbeam. So those with the 24v would only have the one option.I have several flash lights that cycle through their various modes. This could be another way ofchanging between high & low beam; swith the light off & on again & it goes to the next mode.Alan From: Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, But then you would be excluding those with only a 24v system from using the max output...I assume the wide voltage input spec is to satisfy both voltage systems. Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/26/15, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, July 26, 2015, 11:57 AM Ken,you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts.If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull,& an IC that detected the difference in the light housing,then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a changefrom 5000 to 10000 lumens.cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3279730652 #yiv3279730652 -- ? ? _filtered #yiv3279730652 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv3279730652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv3279730652 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} ? _filtered #yiv3279730652 {panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;} #yiv3279730652? #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652MsoNormal, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652MsoNormal, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652MsoNormal ??? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 a:link, #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652MsoHyperlink ??? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 a:visited, #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652MsoHyperlinkFollowed ??? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 p ??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 pre ??? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msoacetate, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msoacetate, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msoacetate ??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonormal, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonormal, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonormal ??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msochpdefault, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msochpdefault, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msochpdefault ??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonormal1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonormal1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonormal1 ??? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msoacetate1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msoacetate1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msoacetate1 ??? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1 ??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlink ??? {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlinkfollowed ??? {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle19 ??? {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle20 ??? {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle21 ??? {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlink1 ??? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlinkfollowed1 ??? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle191 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle201 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle211 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652EmailStyle33 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonor, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonor, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonor ??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652mson, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652mson, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652mson ??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652HTMLPreformattedChar ??? {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652EmailStyle39 ??? {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 .yiv3279730652MsoChpDefault ??? {font-size:10.0pt;} ? _filtered #yiv3279730652 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652WordSection1 ??? {} #yiv3279730652? ?Sean, ?There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array. ?Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise. ?If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though. ?Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work). ?Ken ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light?Sean ?On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Thanks for that info Hugh.This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue.How hard is thermal rollback Ken???.....? General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing.Alan?From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?40 degrees gives you 30 degrees120 degrees! gives you 80 degreesIt doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes.The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc.? Also my reflector is round with a square LED.Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea.? With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. ?It will need serious fins.? Needs to be idiot proof.One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc.I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that.? I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum??ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Re- Dimming.Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable.? Then you can have a 3 position switch.? Is it simpler?Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming.?From feedback, we were two for and two against.? ?I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it.? This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions.? A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus.??Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,?Dimming, I thought we deleted this?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. ?Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts.?Puts out a lot of light. ?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.?&nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 13:09:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 17:09:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <490187182.2217326.1437770989060.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1155499462.2854522.1437930599299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Glen,have run this one in the pool with prop & no housing.http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18184__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_6374_149kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html It's tiny at 3hp. The number 6374 means 63mm diameter x 74mm long.I am intending to oil compensate it. There is nothing to the motor, butthe electronic speed controllers are complex & don't usually have reverse.there are issues caused by long wire runs from battery to esc that need addressing.Alan From: glen brown via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor AlanWhat BLDC motor ?are you considering,are you planing on filling it with oil ect?Regards Glen On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 12:49 PM, glen brown wrote: ?AlanThanks for the info,I am going the bore hole pump way for sure I will give feed back . I think you guys have a chance today with the game we have made 8 changes to our team,Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Glen,I am just about to get back in to a project using anRC BLDC motor as a thruster. Have a 3 hp one witha lot of starting torque that spins a Yamaha 4 hp propwithout gearing.?With regard to your pump; you will either need a suitableelectronic speed controller with reverse, or?you could build an H bridgecircuit on the appopriate 2 of the 3 wires from the speed controllerto the BLDC motor.? There are normally 3 wires from the controller to the motor, the central one is for position feedback & the other two can be?switched around happily for reversing the polarity.You will need some sort of delay so you are not wacking it in to reversewhile it's still rotating.Ken is an expert on this.Hank had some great low priced DC pumps that he posted links to a while back.Alan From: glen brown via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor HankI think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg.With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something I'm going to have to look into ?plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use?Glen On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Glen, I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber bladder at the bottom.? They are also sleek and made from SS.? The problem is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure.? Maybe someone knows a way to reverse them.? ?If you can find a way to reverse them, please let me know.? I would use them in a flash! Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 13:26:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 10:26:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma In-Reply-To: <784416445.2892284.1437928705910.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1437931582.96959.YahooMailBasic@web163205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Alan, For the video link to work you need to remove the "/," at the end Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/26/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, July 26, 2015, 12:38 PM Tim,thanks for that great dive report.You didn't mention having to untangle the prop from the float rope?The link didn't work for me & couldn't find the video on the site though.Cheers Alan From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma Hi all, Shelley and I met Hank at Kootenay Lake to photo and video his modified Gamma submarine.? Unfortunately, the visibility was only about 4-5 feet, 6 feet at the depth of 38 feet.? We had great plans for recording the sub ops and went over diver hand signals and what to expect.? All for not and we just did as well as we could under the conditions available.? Underwater voice communications would have been most helpful. On the way out we tried hanging onto the front of the submarine at first, but this proved too difficult for the distance required at speed.? Shelley was holding one of the GoPro cameras and the lanyard slipped from her wrist and the camera went to the bottom.? We spent the next 10 minutes doing a search and recovery dive trying to find this $600 new purchase.? As what usually happens when we do a search and recovery dive, Shelley found it.? We were back in business.? I still had the other GoPro strapped to my head.? We then tied a couple of loops in the trailing dive safety float line and this worked out much better.? We felt that we could almost water ski behind this boat.? When we arrived over the 30 foot contour we decided to submerge and see what we could do.? We descended a bit faster than Hank in the sub and lost sight of him when more than 10 feet away.? We settled on the bottom and then Hank dropped out of the sky right beside us... like inches away.? All good.? We carried on with the dive as best we could.? You can see from the photos in the Psubs.org Event photos, http://www.psubs.org/projects/1403928245/gammakootenaylakejul15/, that the viz was pathetic.? We did not go deeper due to the bottom being in the way without being towed quite a long way off shore.? As it was, the built-in flash in the camera went off due to the low light, causing too much back scatter.? We really wanted to stay shallow so that we could use available light, but such is the way of things.? We were towed back to the launch ramp and after changing out of our dive gear I went out with Hank as a passenger.? We travelled further along the surface to the 100 foot contour where we submerged and descended to the bottom.? I only had my point-and-shoot camera, not a GoPro for this dive (don't know why), and took a few pics out the dome.? After satiating ourselves with the awesome views of the mud bottom we surfaced and returned to the launch ramp. Hank's submarine is a most excellent vehicle.? It has enough room for two occupants to comfortably enjoy the view out of the amazing front dome.? The LED light bar lit the scene to what seemed like daylight.? The high level of battery power allows for a long transit and also powers the onboard compressor to refill the compressed air tanks enroute.? Hank has mastered the launch and recovery tasks with his purpose built trailer.? It is of sufficient length to launch the sub from most launch ramps, but it also has a large dolly wheel so that the trailer can be detached from the truck and submerged on a tow strap if necessary.? Hank installed a cat walk and hand rail on the forward part of the trailer so that he can easily detach the submarine from the trailer while he wears chest-waders. This allows him to tie the sub to the dock and then park the truck and trailer.? He can launch or recover the submarine himself in five minutes with no other help or equipment needed. It was a good time and the dive was good (Shelley and I do a lot of low viz dives).? A better viz day in the spring or fall would have made a more interesting photo shoot.? None the less, we had a good time. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-23-15 5:09 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Hi all, I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak yesterday.? I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling"? Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical environments.? I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical penetrators.? Might be worth a try. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 13:47:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:47:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> References: <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> <005201d0c7a8 $760f1f00$622d5d00$@cfl.rr.com> <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901d0c7cb$13541370$39fc3a50$@cfl.rr.com> No, the LED array operates at about 38 volts but the electronics regulates the current through the array at 2.10 amperes and regulates the current at this level. The LED driver operates with an input of 21.6 volts to 45 volts. Changing the voltage within this range won?t change the LED current or brightness. Sorry, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:57 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts. If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull, & an IC that detected the difference in the light housing, then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a change from 5000 to 10000 lumens. cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sean, There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array. Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise. If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though. Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work). Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light? Sean On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks for that info Hugh. This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue. How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing. Alan _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees! gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. &nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 13:53:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:53:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <633218644.2825161.1437929814775.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> <1437928501.19658.YahooMailBasic@web163202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <633218644.2825161.1437929814775.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01d0c7cb$f6cd90e0$e468b2a0$@cfl.rr.com> Al, You are right. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:57 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Al, I hadn't thought of that. Am trying to make a case for having the two brightness options & are thinking of ways that avoid the extra pin. Another option would be to have 24v as high beam & when the IC sees 36v the light goes to low beam. So those with the 24v would only have the one option. I have several flash lights that cycle through their various modes. This could be another way of changing between high & low beam; swith the light off & on again & it goes to the next mode. Alan _____ From: Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, But then you would be excluding those with only a 24v system from using the max output...I assume the wide voltage input spec is to satisfy both voltage systems. Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/26/15, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2015, 11:57 AM Ken,you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts.If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull,& an IC that detected the difference in the light housing,then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a changefrom 5000 to 10000 lumens.cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: #yiv3279730652 #yiv3279730652 -- _filtered #yiv3279730652 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;} #yiv3279730652 #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652MsoNormal, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652MsoNormal, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 a:link, #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 a:visited, #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 pre {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msoacetate, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msoacetate, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msoacetate {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonormal, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonormal, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonormal {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msochpdefault, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msochpdefault, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msochpdefault {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonormal1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonormal1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonormal1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msoacetate1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msoacetate1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msoacetate1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:10.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlink {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlinkfollowed {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle19 {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle20 {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle21 {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle191 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle201 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652emailstyle211 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652EmailStyle33 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652msonor, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652msonor, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652msonor {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 p.yiv3279730652mson, #yiv3279730652 li.yiv3279730652mson, #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652mson {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652HTMLPreformattedChar {} #yiv3279730652 span.yiv3279730652EmailStyle39 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv3279730652 .yiv3279730652MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3279730652 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv3279730652 div.yiv3279730652WordSection1 {} #yiv3279730652 Sean, There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array. Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise. If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though. Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work). Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light?Sean On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote:Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks for that info Hugh.This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue.How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees120 degrees! gives you 80 degreesIt doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes.The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED.Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof.One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc.I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming.Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler?Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote:Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this?Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote:This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote:Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote:Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. &nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 14:22:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (glen brown via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:22:27 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor In-Reply-To: <1155499462.2854522.1437930599299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1437748393.55291.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <490187182.2217326.1437770989060.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1155499462.2854522.1437930599299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan Nice and compact.Im sure control is possible. Glen On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Glen, > have run this one in the pool with prop & no housing. > > http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18184__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_6374_149kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html > It's tiny at 3hp. The number 6374 means 63mm diameter x 74mm long. > I am intending to oil compensate it. There is nothing to the motor, but > the electronic speed controllers are complex & don't usually have reverse. > there are issues caused by long wire runs from battery to esc that need > addressing. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2015 3:33 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor > > Alan > What BLDC motor are you considering,are you planing on filling it with > oil ect? > Regards Glen > > > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 12:49 PM, glen brown wrote: > > Alan > Thanks for the info,I am going the bore hole pump way for sure I will give > feed back . > > I think you guys have a chance today with the game we have made 8 changes > to our team, > Glen > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Glen, > I am just about to get back in to a project using an > RC BLDC motor as a thruster. Have a 3 hp one with > a lot of starting torque that spins a Yamaha 4 hp prop > without gearing. > With regard to your pump; you will either need a suitable > electronic speed controller with reverse, or you could build an H bridge > circuit on the appopriate 2 of the 3 wires from the speed controller > to the BLDC motor. There are normally 3 wires from the controller to > the motor, the central one is for position feedback & the other two can be > switched around happily for reversing the polarity. > You will need some sort of delay so you are not wacking it in to reverse > while it's still rotating. > Ken is an expert on this. > Hank had some great low priced DC pumps that he posted links to a while > back. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* glen brown via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] pump motor > > Hank > I think using a set in either direction could work, the motor is not that > long . Another option could be be rotating 180 deg. > With all the issues that the trolling motors have I think its something > I'm going to have to look into plus our dollar exchange rate is at 13 to 1 > at present.I wonder what size and pitch prop one would use? > Glen > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:33 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Glen, > I looked at it real hard, the motors are well compensated with a rubber > bladder at the bottom. They are also sleek and made from SS. The problem > is, they are not reversible, as far as I could figure. Maybe someone knows > a way to reverse them. If you can find a way to reverse them, please let > me know. I would use them in a flash! > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 15:01:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 12:01:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Message-ID: James, Thanks for shareing, your sub is a work of art! Did the UK equvalent of the coast guard givee you any trouble when having inspections or registration?. Keitth T. T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Excellent video compilation, James. Your sub is fantastic inside and out. > >Tim > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: July-21-15 2:38 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video > > > >Hi All > > > > http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI > > > >Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea. > > > >Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More of an insult than a problem. > > > >Kind Regards > >James > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 15:16:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:16:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <001901d0c7cb$13541370$39fc3a50$@cfl.rr.com> References: <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> <005201d0c7a8 $760f1f00$622d5d00$@cfl.rr.com> <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> <001901d0c7cb$13541370$39fc3a50$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1222281501.2941263.1437938212305.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Ken,I am not saying that changing the voltage will change the LED current or brightness.I am saying it will signal a voltage comparator IC that will switch the electronics in?the light housing to change the current.?But will give up on pushing the dual option as it seems too difficult.Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv2708224838 #yiv2708224838 -- _filtered #yiv2708224838 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2708224838 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2708224838 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li.yiv2708224838msonormal, #yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838msonormal {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2708224838 p.yiv2708224838msochpdefault, #yiv2708224838 li.yiv2708224838msochpdefault, #yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838msochpdefault {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2708224838 p.yiv2708224838msonormal1, #yiv2708224838 li.yiv2708224838msonormal1, #yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838msonormal1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2708224838 p.yiv2708224838msoacetate1, #yiv2708224838 li.yiv2708224838msoacetate1, #yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838msoacetate1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv2708224838 p.yiv2708224838msochpdefault1, #yiv2708224838 li.yiv2708224838msochpdefault1, #yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv2708224838 p.yiv2708224838msonor, #yiv2708224838 li.yiv2708224838msonor, #yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838msonor {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2708224838 p.yiv2708224838mson, #yiv2708224838 li.yiv2708224838mson, #yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838mson {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838msohyperlink {}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838emailstyle19 {}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838emailstyle20 {}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838emailstyle21 {}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838emailstyle191 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838emailstyle201 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838emailstyle211 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838EmailStyle38 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838EmailStyle39 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2708224838 span.yiv2708224838EmailStyle40 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2708224838 .yiv2708224838MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2708224838 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2708224838 div.yiv2708224838WordSection1 {}#yiv2708224838 No, the LED array operates at about 38 volts but the electronics regulates the current through the array at 2.10 amperes and regulates the current at this level. ?The LED driver operates with an input of 21.6 volts to 45 volts. Changing the voltage within this range won?t change the LED current or brightness. ?Sorry, ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:57 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken,you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts.If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull,& an IC that detected the difference in the light housing,then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a changefrom 5000 to 10000 lumens.cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Sean,?There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array.?Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise.?If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though.?Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work).?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light?Sean?On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Thanks for that info Hugh.This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue.How hard is thermal rollback Ken???.....? General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing.Alan?From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?40 degrees gives you 30 degrees120 degrees! gives you 80 degreesIt doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes.The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc.? Also my reflector is round with a square LED.Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea.? With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. ?It will need serious fins.? Needs to be idiot proof.One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc.I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that.? I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum??ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Re- Dimming.Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable.? Then you can have a 3 position switch.? Is it simpler?Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming.?From feedback, we were two for and two against.? ?I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it.? This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions.? A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus.??Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Cliff,?Dimming, I thought we deleted this?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. ?Cliff?On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts.?Puts out a lot of light. ?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights?Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way.? On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell.? Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell.? Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange.? I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a?MPB?by using a neoprene flat gadget.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shapedrecess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposingcutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is betterbecause my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglasssurrounding the light fitting.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, I am visual kind of guy.? Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk.?Cliff?On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Looks a good solid light Cliff.On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking weneed a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housingin the fairing as you have requested in your list.I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape?of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threadedextension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be securedwith a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks inmy situation.Alan?From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cliff,?How do I look at them???Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Now that Jon has the forum?site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email.? BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.?Cliff?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer??We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.?Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.?You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Cliff, Ken,I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light insome low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may notneed to be as intense.Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of thecomponents needed to get rid of a bit of heat.Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, good first pass at the specs.? Below are comments.? BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.?Item 2.1 DC Voltage.? If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.? When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.? Would need?a single?fuse holder to accept fuses?to handle?different nominal voltages.?Item 4.0 Depth Requirement.? In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.? I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m??6.0 Dimming.?? I would omit the ability to dim the light.? Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector.? I am thinking on installing?multiple lighs so I could just control?on/off for each light.? I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.?8.3 Ports? I would change plastic to acrylic.? I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.?9.0 Printed Wiring Boards.? I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted.? Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse).? Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.?11.0 Mechanical Housing.? I suggest.? The LED panel light and PCB shall be?contained in a?single 1-atm?flange mounted cylindrical?housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange.? The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens??with a rated power of ?91-140 lumens/W?(109-71W).? Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.? ?Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6? TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop.? He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.?On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.?Hope you guys are reading the specification.?Ken?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Jon, thanks for setting up the forum.? I am assuming we can post files as well.?&nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well.? OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted.? To me the best way?to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm ?DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish?a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using ?one of the PCB online sites like ?ExperessPCB?www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board.? As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop.?If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.??Getting a consciences?on the design spec is the first step.??Cliff?On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it.? If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.? Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 15:25:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:25:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma In-Reply-To: <1437931582.96959.YahooMailBasic@web163205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <784416445.2892284.1437928705910.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1437931582.96959.YahooMailBasic@web163205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <773357060.2939024.1437938719493.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Al,good work Tim.Link that works.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1403928245/gammakootenaylakejul15/ Alan From: Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma Alan, For the video link to work you need to remove the "/," at the end Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/26/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Date: Sunday, July 26, 2015, 12:38 PM Tim,thanks for that great dive report.You didn't mention having to untangle the prop from the float rope?The link didn't work for me & couldn't find the video on the site though.Cheers Alan ? ? ? ? From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:49 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma ? ? Hi all, Shelley and I met Hank at Kootenay Lake to photo and video his modified Gamma submarine.? Unfortunately, the visibility was only about 4-5 feet, 6 feet at the depth of 38 feet.? We had great plans for recording the sub ops and went over diver hand signals and what to expect.? All for not and we just did as well as we could under the conditions available.? Underwater voice communications would have been most helpful. On the way out we tried hanging onto the front of the submarine at first, but this proved too difficult for the distance required at speed.? Shelley was holding one of the GoPro cameras and the lanyard slipped from her wrist and the camera went to the bottom.? We spent the next 10 minutes doing a search and recovery dive trying to find this $600 new purchase.? As what usually happens when we do a search and recovery dive, Shelley found it.? We were back in business.? I still had the other GoPro strapped to my head.? We then tied a couple of loops in the trailing dive safety float line and this worked out much better.? We felt that we could almost water ski behind this boat.? When we arrived over the 30 foot contour we decided to submerge and see what we could do.? We descended a bit faster than Hank in the sub and lost sight of him when more than 10 feet away.? We settled on the bottom and then Hank dropped out of the sky right beside us... like inches away.? All good.? We carried on with the dive as best we could.? You can see from the photos in the Psubs.org Event photos, http://www.psubs.org/projects/1403928245/gammakootenaylakejul15/, that the viz was pathetic.? We did not go deeper due to the bottom being in the way without being towed quite a long way off shore.? As it was, the built-in flash in the camera went off due to the low light, causing too much back scatter.? We really wanted to stay shallow so that we could use available light, but such is the way of things.? We were towed back to the launch ramp and after changing out of our dive gear I went out with Hank as a passenger.? We travelled further along the surface to the 100 foot contour where we submerged and descended to the bottom.? I only had my point-and-shoot camera, not a GoPro for this dive (don't know why), and took a few pics out the dome.? After satiating ourselves with the awesome views of the mud bottom we surfaced and returned to the launch ramp. Hank's submarine is a most excellent vehicle.? It has enough room for two occupants to comfortably enjoy the view out of the amazing front dome.? The LED light bar lit the scene to what seemed like daylight.? The high level of battery power allows for a long transit and also powers the onboard compressor to refill the compressed air tanks enroute.? Hank has mastered the launch and recovery tasks with his purpose built trailer.? It is of sufficient length to launch the sub from most launch ramps, but it also has a large dolly wheel so that the trailer can be detached from the truck and submerged on a tow strap if necessary.? Hank installed a cat walk and hand rail on the forward part of the trailer so that he can easily detach the submarine from the trailer while he wears chest-waders. This allows him to tie the sub to the dock and then park the truck and trailer.? He can launch or recover the submarine himself in five minutes with no other help or equipment needed. It was a good time and the dive was good (Shelley and I do a lot of low viz dives).? A better viz day in the spring or fall would have made a more interesting photo shoot.? None the less, we had a good time. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-23-15 5:09 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Hi all, I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak yesterday.? I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling"? Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical environments.? I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical penetrators.? Might be worth a try. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 16:01:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 16:01:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <1222281501.2941263.1437938212305.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <1997764336.2660700.1437873658480.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <007b01d0c79f$f6594f40$e30bedc0$@cfl.rr.com> <005201d0c7a8 $760f1f00$622d5d00$@cfl.rr.com> <02D695A2-BE4A-4FC9-8C72-88C475EFAA55@yahoo.com> <001901d0c7cb$13541370$39fc3a50$@cfl.rr.com> <1222281501.2941263.1437938212305.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000f01d0c7dd$e4ea6210$aebf2630$@cfl.rr.com> Alan, That?s not hard to do from a circuit standpoint and is certainly possible. The PWB can easily accommodate this. The only difficult part is the 5 pin connector if we use analog dimming. The circuitry is not the problem. Sorry I didn?t understand. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I am not saying that changing the voltage will change the LED current or brightness. I am saying it will signal a voltage comparator IC that will switch the electronics in the light housing to change the current. But will give up on pushing the dual option as it seems too difficult. Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights No, the LED array operates at about 38 volts but the electronics regulates the current through the array at 2.10 amperes and regulates the current at this level. The LED driver operates with an input of 21.6 volts to 45 volts. Changing the voltage within this range won?t change the LED current or brightness. Sorry, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:57 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts. If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull, & an IC that detected the difference in the light housing, then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a change from 5000 to 10000 lumens. cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Sean, There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array. Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise. If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won?t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though. Can?t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work). Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light? Sean On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Basically that?s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Thanks for that info Hugh. This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue. How hard is thermal rollback Ken???..... General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it?s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65? C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing. Alan _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees! gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O? rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. &nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _____ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 16:28:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 15:28:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Message-ID: For anyone that has a large LED or halogens on their boat, can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights. Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam. As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep. This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 16:51:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 08:51:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <001b01d0c7a2$08130d00$18392700$@cfl.rr.com> References: <55AEDD66.6080805@archivale.com> <001b01d0c7a2$08130d00$18392700$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b5484c.2daf420a.7d644.ffff9a06@mx.google.com> Hi Ken, waiting for your email address. You have mine. Thks Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 12:53 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Hugh, Can you contact me off line? Like to know how the flat port impacts the beam angle. I know it does. Thanks, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of glen brown via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:38 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Thanks James On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks like they were scraping bottom as soon as submerged. Marc On 7/21/2015 5:37 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea. Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More of an insult than a problem. Kind Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 16:54:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 16:54:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000a01d0c7e5$4fcfa1b0$ef6ee510$@cfl.rr.com> Along this line, a High Intensity Discharge automobile headlamp produces about 3000 lumens. The LED array produces about 10,000 lumens. ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 4:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights For anyone that has a large LED or halogens on their boat, can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights. Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam. As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep. This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 16:55:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 16:55:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video In-Reply-To: <55b5484c.2daf420a.7d644.ffff9a06@mx.google.com> References: <55AEDD66.6080805@archivale.com> <001b01d0c7a2$08130d00$18392700$@cfl.rr.com> <55b5484c.2daf420a.7d644.ffff9a06@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000501d0c7e5$7953fd10$6bfbf730$@cfl.rr.com> Hugh, It?s wmartindale at cfl.rr.com Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 4:51 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Hi Ken, waiting for your email address. You have mine. Thks Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 12:53 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Hugh, Can you contact me off line? Like to know how the flat port impacts the beam angle. I know it does. Thanks, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of glen brown via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:38 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Video Thanks James On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks like they were scraping bottom as soon as submerged. Marc On 7/21/2015 5:37 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All http://youtu.be/r_uNja9YawI Here is a little video of a dive day I did last week. Its a series of dives stitched into one, so the continuity isn't quite truthful, but you get the idea. Only issue I had was on one dive when i'd left the snorkel valve open. The poppet valve snapped shut but I still got a face full of water. More of an insult than a problem. Kind Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 17:06:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tom J Whent via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 17:06:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <000a01d0c7e5$4fcfa1b0$ef6ee510$@cfl.rr.com> References: <000a01d0c7e5$4fcfa1b0$ef6ee510$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00dd01d0c7e6$e581d100$b0857300$@shaw.ca> >From a scuba diving perspective, a dive light with a more diffused beam is often preferable. Generally underwater visibility is limited to 20-40 feet, in relatively clear water, and a wider beam will illuminate a broader area without so much ?hot spot? to reflect back to the viewer. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 4:55 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Along this line, a High Intensity Discharge automobile headlamp produces about 3000 lumens. The LED array produces about 10,000 lumens. ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 4:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights For anyone that has a large LED or halogens on their boat, can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights. Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam. As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep. This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 17:28:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 14:28:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma In-Reply-To: <773357060.2939024.1437938719493.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <784416445.2892284.1437928705910.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1437931582.96959.YahooMailBasic@web163205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <773357060.2939024.1437938719493.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b701d0c7ea$126136e0$3723a4a0$@telus.net> Thanks, guys. The video files are large with a lot of useless footage. I will try to put together a mini-compilation of the good stuff and have it up on YouTube. Alan, we surfaced right under the dive safety float. When Hank powered up the main thruster the float line demonstrated the laws of entropy. A few minutes with Hank's onboard scissors solved the problem. Because I was wet after the swim I worked on my tan on deck while we powered back to the launch ramp. Upon arrival I quickly put my swim shorts back on since no one wants to see a 57 year old man in a Speedo (normally I only wear it under the wet suit). Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-26-15 12:25 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma Thanks Al, good work Tim. Link that works. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1403928245/gammakootenaylakejul15/ Alan _____ From: Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma Alan, For the video link to work you need to remove the "/," at the end Al Secor -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/26/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2015, 12:38 PM Tim,thanks for that great dive report.You didn't mention having to untangle the prop from the float rope?The link didn't work for me & couldn't find the video on the site though.Cheers Alan From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Gamma Hi all, Shelley and I met Hank at Kootenay Lake to photo and video his modified Gamma submarine. Unfortunately, the visibility was only about 4-5 feet, 6 feet at the depth of 38 feet. We had great plans for recording the sub ops and went over diver hand signals and what to expect. All for not and we just did as well as we could under the conditions available. Underwater voice communications would have been most helpful. On the way out we tried hanging onto the front of the submarine at first, but this proved too difficult for the distance required at speed. Shelley was holding one of the GoPro cameras and the lanyard slipped from her wrist and the camera went to the bottom. We spent the next 10 minutes doing a search and recovery dive trying to find this $600 new purchase. As what usually happens when we do a search and recovery dive, Shelley found it. We were back in business. I still had the other GoPro strapped to my head. We then tied a couple of loops in the trailing dive safety float line and this worked out much better. We felt that we could almost water ski behind this boat. When we arrived over the 30 foot contour we decided to submerge and see what we could do. We descended a bit faster than Hank in the sub and lost sight of him when more than 10 feet away. We settled on the bottom and then Hank dropped out of the sky right beside us... like inches away. All good. We carried on with the dive as best we could. You can see from the photos in the Psubs.org Event photos, http://www.psubs.org/projects/1403928245/gammakootenaylakejul15/, that the viz was pathetic. We did not go deeper due to the bottom being in the way without being towed quite a long way off shore. As it was, the built-in flash in the camera went off due to the low light, causing too much back scatter. We really wanted to stay shallow so that we could use available light, but such is the way of things. We were towed back to the launch ramp and after changing out of our dive gear I went out with Hank as a passenger. We travelled further along the surface to the 100 foot contour where we submerged and descended to the bottom. I only had my point-and-shoot camera, not a GoPro for this dive (don't know why), and took a few pics out the dome. After satiating ourselves with the awesome views of the mud bottom we surfaced and returned to the launch ramp. Hank's submarine is a most excellent vehicle. It has enough room for two occupants to comfortably enjoy the view out of the amazing front dome. The LED light bar lit the scene to what seemed like daylight. The high level of battery power allows for a long transit and also powers the onboard compressor to refill the compressed air tanks enroute. Hank has mastered the launch and recovery tasks with his purpose built trailer. It is of sufficient length to launch the sub from most launch ramps, but it also has a large dolly wheel so that the trailer can be detached from the truck and submerged on a tow strap if necessary. Hank installed a cat walk and hand rail on the forward part of the trailer so that he can easily detach the submarine from the trailer while he wears chest-waders. This allows him to tie the sub to the dock and then park the truck and trailer. He can launch or recover the submarine himself in five minutes with no other help or equipment needed. It was a good time and the dive was good (Shelley and I do a lot of low viz dives). A better viz day in the spring or fall would have made a more interesting photo shoot. None the less, we had a good time. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-23-15 5:09 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] dive report Hi all, I went out to Kootenay Lake and did a dive with Tim and Shelly Novak yesterday. I met an engineer from Ontario, I showed him my killer light and he said "why don't you pot the whole thing instead of oil filling" Hmmm I had no response, he also said they have potted LED's for use in chemical environments. I use a crystal clear casting resin for making electrical penetrators. Might be worth a try. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 17:46:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:46:46 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> Ken, Refractive index of Sea water n3 1.34 Refractive index of acrylic n2 1.49 Refractive index of borosilicate glass 1.52 Critical angle 41.26 I am using the above as refraction indices. So I am getting 41.26 and 42.17 for glass and acrylic. Can you please supply what you are using. Havent gone through proper checking but it is going to be hard to get more than about 50 -55 degrees of angle without convexing underside. I was looking at 80 ? 90 degrees for the reflector with 5/8? ? ?? depth and planning on machining out of aluminium then polishing. The light from 90 ? 140deg gets a bit lost between refraction and reflection with some going back onto the emitter. 90 degrees and over 1? starts to increase the body size over ?small light? status but will assist in cooling ability. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 1:30 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, I think the critical angle is about 48 degrees so anything greater will be reflected. Maybe a reflector of about 90 degrees will give us the maximum flood angle? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 17:50:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 14:50:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1437947429.22549.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, Forget the focus or beam of light. With big lumen go with a wide beam(flood) you have the power. My 400W 120v AC halogen had no reflector at all, and it lit up the lake like I pulled the sun to the bottom. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 7/26/15, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, July 26, 2015, 2:28 PM For anyone that has a large LED or?halogens?on their boat,?can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights.?? Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam.? As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep.? This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 17:57:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 21:57:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92792028.2925750.1437947822181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,in everything I have read, the flood light seems the prefered option.Except in cave diving where a narrower beam is handy for finding the way out.Nuytco sells a 120 degree beam light.For night time surface operation a narrower beam like car headlightswould be better. Some dive lights come with sleeves that are pulled out tonarrow down the beam which comes in handy for spotting things or signaling divers.?If you are wanting that lower profile then we can set up for wide beam &have a narrow reflector as a retro fit for surface lights or people who preferthe narrow beam. A lot of the reflectors are polished aluminium, so machiningup an insert wouldn't take long. Or for the wide angle just machine the reflector?angle in to the housing & polish it. We may find one to fit on "Deal Extreme''http://www.dx.com/s/reflector? (regarded as the Holy Grail of lighting) or one that just needs a bit of machining.At the moment I am thinking 2 wide beam 10,000 lm at the front, 1 spot lighthigher & central for surface & underwater use with the 5000 lm option beinghandy for out of water & two wide beam side lights at 5000 lm.Cheers Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights For anyone that has a large LED or?halogens?on their boat,?can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights.?? Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam.? As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep.? This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 19:35:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:35:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <350716966.3161288.1437953759734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I'm getting confused here. You are advocating the subconn 3 pin conectorbut on your 5000lm light you have a 5 pin connector.Did you say you had a number of 3 pin connectors?Even with the 3 pin connectors it would be easy to have "switching" by sendinga small current down the 3rd pin. 4 pin & we have anologue dimming.Perhaps we could have a wiring option for just the 3 pins & one for dimming.Ken, how low can we go with switching? Could we have 2000, 5000 & 10,000lmoptions? Just trying to clarify our options & the difficulty involved From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat ?or the manufacture solder joint would fail.??The 5000 lumen ?Vero 18?has a diameter of 3.6 cm.? The Vero 29, is?4.9 cm or only about 40% larger.? My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing?is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate.? Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I?would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current.??Also with the smaller housing, ?if we?limit the?max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing.? Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you.? Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point.??? Cliff? On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test.- Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance.?- Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion.- Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec? On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon? More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a? short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation.? My thinking is?in order to?fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up?the housing? just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base.? Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design.?We?should be able to use the same? Subconn MCBH-3MP connector.? We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs.? This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens.? The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr.?This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle.?? To me, the key is to work as group on?the?draft spec that Ken comes up with.? From the housing perspective, the key items?the spec needs to call out?are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs? oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator ?I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC.? Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing.? If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing.?After?we have the prototype, I can test it in my?test chamber.? For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff ??? On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken,a few thoughts once you have settled on the?electronics are.....Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?Do we want the housing oil filled?What sealing configuration do we want?What beam angle do we want?What sort of reflector?What sort of lense?How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?? ?Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available offthe shelf at a reasonable price.Cheers Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.? I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.? After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics.? Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan ?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. ?I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? ?We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list. ?I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. ?My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. ?Cliff ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 20:02:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:02:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <002701d0c7ff$85400e60$8fc02b20$@cfl.rr.com> Hugh, Not sure I get quite the same numbers but not finished calculating. It?s probably cheaper to buy a reflector instead of making one. We are looking at some 20 vendors for reflectors. Cliff found one vendor that all three beam angles can fit into a single housing. If you gave me your E-mail address I don?t have it, sorry. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 5:47 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, Refractive index of Sea water n3 1.34 Refractive index of acrylic n2 1.49 Refractive index of borosilicate glass 1.52 Critical angle 41.26 I am using the above as refraction indices. So I am getting 41.26 and 42.17 for glass and acrylic. Can you please supply what you are using. Havent gone through proper checking but it is going to be hard to get more than about 50 -55 degrees of angle without convexing underside. I was looking at 80 ? 90 degrees for the reflector with 5/8? ? ?? depth and planning on machining out of aluminium then polishing. The light from 90 ? 140deg gets a bit lost between refraction and reflection with some going back onto the emitter. 90 degrees and over 1? starts to increase the body size over ?small light? status but will assist in cooling ability. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 1:30 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, I think the critical angle is about 48 degrees so anything greater will be reflected. Maybe a reflector of about 90 degrees will give us the maximum flood angle? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 20:06:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:06:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003001d0c800$204f2f80$60ed8e80$@cfl.rr.com> I was hoping not to have a dome front port. Let me finish the calculations. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 5:47 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, Refractive index of Sea water n3 1.34 Refractive index of acrylic n2 1.49 Refractive index of borosilicate glass 1.52 Critical angle 41.26 I am using the above as refraction indices. So I am getting 41.26 and 42.17 for glass and acrylic. Can you please supply what you are using. Havent gone through proper checking but it is going to be hard to get more than about 50 -55 degrees of angle without convexing underside. I was looking at 80 ? 90 degrees for the reflector with 5/8? ? ?? depth and planning on machining out of aluminium then polishing. The light from 90 ? 140deg gets a bit lost between refraction and reflection with some going back onto the emitter. 90 degrees and over 1? starts to increase the body size over ?small light? status but will assist in cooling ability. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 1:30 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, I think the critical angle is about 48 degrees so anything greater will be reflected. Maybe a reflector of about 90 degrees will give us the maximum flood angle? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 20:23:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:23:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <350716966.3161288.1437953759734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <350716966.3161288.1437953759734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004101d0c802$67494810$35dbd830$@cfl.rr.com> Down to 10% or 20% of the 10,000 lumens or 1000 to 2000 lumens. You are right about sending a current down the third wire but that complicates the drive signal external to the light. Do any of the existing lights have dimming? I know we are sizing this light like the 5000 lumen light but this light will be larger. One other thing, this light will not operate very long without cooling (in air) unless we have a large heat sink. It will not be damaged or degraded if left on in air but will shut off and then back on after cooling. I don?t think we ought to have operation in air as a requirement. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 7:36 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, I'm getting confused here. You are advocating the subconn 3 pin conector but on your 5000lm light you have a 5 pin connector. Did you say you had a number of 3 pin connectors? Even with the 3 pin connectors it would be easy to have "switching" by sending a small current down the 3rd pin. 4 pin & we have anologue dimming. Perhaps we could have a wiring option for just the 3 pins & one for dimming. Ken, how low can we go with switching? Could we have 2000, 5000 & 10,000lm options? Just trying to clarify our options & the difficulty involved _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! Not locked to anything at this point. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test. - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion. - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. Best, Alec On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon More Thoughts After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle. To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call out are : 1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. Cliff On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ken, a few thoughts once you have settled on the electronics are..... Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? Do we want the housing oil filled? What sealing configuration do we want? What beam angle do we want? What sort of reflector? What sort of lense? How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off the shelf at a reasonable price. Cheers Alan _____ From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I'm on board with the LED light project. Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop. I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application. We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 20:38:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:38:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <002701d0c7ff$85400e60$8fc02b20$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> <002701d0c7ff$85400e60$8fc02b20$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b57d87.278a420a.cacd2.63eb@mx.google.com> Hi Ken, hfulton at q-subs.com Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 12:02 p.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, Not sure I get quite the same numbers but not finished calculating. It?s probably cheaper to buy a reflector instead of making one. We are looking at some 20 vendors for reflectors. Cliff found one vendor that all three beam angles can fit into a single housing. If you gave me your E-mail address I don?t have it, sorry. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 5:47 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, Refractive index of Sea water n3 1.34 Refractive index of acrylic n2 1.49 Refractive index of borosilicate glass 1.52 Critical angle 41.26 I am using the above as refraction indices. So I am getting 41.26 and 42.17 for glass and acrylic. Can you please supply what you are using. Havent gone through proper checking but it is going to be hard to get more than about 50 -55 degrees of angle without convexing underside. I was looking at 80 ? 90 degrees for the reflector with 5/8? ? ?? depth and planning on machining out of aluminium then polishing. The light from 90 ? 140deg gets a bit lost between refraction and reflection with some going back onto the emitter. 90 degrees and over 1? starts to increase the body size over ?small light? status but will assist in cooling ability. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 1:30 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, I think the critical angle is about 48 degrees so anything greater will be reflected. Maybe a reflector of about 90 degrees will give us the maximum flood angle? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 20:41:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:41:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <003001d0c800$204f2f80$60ed8e80$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> <003001d0c800$204f2f80$60ed8e80$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <55b57e3a.8234460a.2a4c.54b6@mx.google.com> Agreed. Flat disc is better. Looking at 3.5 inches OD but need to be smaller for higher depth rating as the McMaster Carr only go up to ?? thick. Hugh. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 12:07 p.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights I was hoping not to have a dome front port. Let me finish the calculations. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 5:47 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, Refractive index of Sea water n3 1.34 Refractive index of acrylic n2 1.49 Refractive index of borosilicate glass 1.52 Critical angle 41.26 I am using the above as refraction indices. So I am getting 41.26 and 42.17 for glass and acrylic. Can you please supply what you are using. Havent gone through proper checking but it is going to be hard to get more than about 50 -55 degrees of angle without convexing underside. I was looking at 80 ? 90 degrees for the reflector with 5/8? ? ?? depth and planning on machining out of aluminium then polishing. The light from 90 ? 140deg gets a bit lost between refraction and reflection with some going back onto the emitter. 90 degrees and over 1? starts to increase the body size over ?small light? status but will assist in cooling ability. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 1:30 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, I think the critical angle is about 48 degrees so anything greater will be reflected. Maybe a reflector of about 90 degrees will give us the maximum flood angle? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 21:33:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 01:33:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <004101d0c802$67494810$35dbd830$@cfl.rr.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <350716966.3161288.1437953759734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004101d0c802$67494810$35dbd830$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <292514091.3073253.1437960817775.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ken,I like the idea of the 2000lm option as well. I have read comments on scuba sitesthat 2000lm is too much, so being able to drop to that may be handy from the too much light?perspective,?as well as for out of?water use.I can't remember seeing any underwater lights with a dimming option.Here is a $5- LED dimmer not sure if it's suitable but there are some cheap options out there.XY-D-RK01 Mini Manual LED Light Strip Dimmer - Beige (12~24V) | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | XY-D-RK01 Mini Manual LED Light Strip Dimmer - Beige ...I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | View on www.dx.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Most LED flashlights I have seen have 3 or 5 modes, which are low light options& include a strobe?mode that fishermen have found is good for attracting fish.Regarding the drive signal to the light for the switching option; wouldn't it be as simple as having?a switch to turn on the main power to the lights & then a potentiometer that is wired to 12 volts that?clicks through 3 stages to signal 2,5,or 10,000lm switching in the light housing electronics.Better still a potentiometer with intergral switch.Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv7725897173 #yiv7725897173 -- _filtered #yiv7725897173 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7725897173 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7725897173 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7725897173 #yiv7725897173 p.yiv7725897173MsoNormal, #yiv7725897173 li.yiv7725897173MsoNormal, #yiv7725897173 div.yiv7725897173MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7725897173 a:link, #yiv7725897173 span.yiv7725897173MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7725897173 a:visited, #yiv7725897173 span.yiv7725897173MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7725897173 span.yiv7725897173EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7725897173 .yiv7725897173MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7725897173 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7725897173 div.yiv7725897173WordSection1 {}#yiv7725897173 Down to 10% or 20% of the 10,000 lumens or 1000 to 2000 lumens. ?You are right about sending a current down the third wire but that complicates the drive signal external to the light. ?Do any of the existing lights have dimming? ?I know we are sizing this light like the 5000 lumen light but this light will be larger. ?One other thing, this light will not operate very long without cooling (in air) unless we have a large heat sink. It will not be damaged or degraded if left on in air but will shut off and then back on after cooling. I don?t think we ought to have operation in air as a requirement. ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 7:36 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,I'm getting confused here. You are advocating the subconn 3 pin conectorbut on your 5000lm light you have a 5 pin connector.Did you say you had a number of 3 pin connectors?Even with the 3 pin connectors it would be easy to have "switching" by sendinga small current down the 3rd pin. 4 pin & we have anologue dimming.Perhaps we could have a wiring option for just the 3 pins & one for dimming.Ken, how low can we go with switching? Could we have 2000, 5000 & 10,000lmoptions? Just trying to clarify our options & the difficulty involved ? ?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat ?or the manufacture solder joint would fail.??The 5000 lumen ?Vero 18?has a diameter of 3.6 cm.? The Vero 29, is?4.9 cm or only about 40% larger.? My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing?is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate.? Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I?would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current.??Also with the smaller housing, ?if we?limit the?max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing.? Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. ?The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you.? Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! ?Not locked to anything at this point.??? ?Cliff? ? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. ?A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: ?- Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test.- Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance.?- Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion.- Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! ?Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. ? ?Best, Alec? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon? ?More Thoughts ?After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a? short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation.? My thinking is?in order to?fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up?the housing? just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base.? Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design.?We?should be able to use the same? Subconn MCBH-3MP connector.? We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs.? This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens.? The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr.?This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle.?? ?To me, the key is to work as group on?the?draft spec that Ken comes up with.? From the housing perspective, the key items?the spec needs to call out?are : ?1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs? oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator ??I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC.? Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing.? If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing.?After?we have the prototype, I can test it in my?test chamber.? For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. ? Cliff ? ? ???? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken,a few thoughts once you have settled on the?electronics are.....Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?Do we want the housing oil filled?What sealing configuration do we want?What beam angle do we want?What sort of reflector?What sort of lense?How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?? ?Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available offthe shelf at a reasonable price.Cheers Alan ? ?From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem.?Ken? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.? I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.? After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics.? Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop.?I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? ?We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list.?I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light.?My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it.?Cliff????? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 21:43:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:43:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <350716966.3161288.1437953759734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <350716966.3161288.1437953759734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, on the video the connector that was installed in the 5000 Lumen light was 5 pin connector. This was the connector setup for testing the prototype. The added pins were used during the testing to measure the temperature reading of the housing from a RTD. The only a three pin connector is needed for light without dimming, +supply, ground and the case ground. The cables on my boat for the exterior lights are all 3 wire. With what is in the spec, if you want 5000 lumen light, you would go with the dimming option, install a 5 pin connector and send the dimming circuit a 2.5VDC. Cliff On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > I'm getting confused here. You are advocating the subconn 3 pin conector > but on your 5000lm light you have a 5 pin connector. > Did you say you had a number of 3 pin connectors? > Even with the 3 pin connectors it would be easy to have "switching" by > sending > a small current down the 3rd pin. 4 pin & we have anologue dimming. > Perhaps we could have a wiring option for just the 3 pins & one for > dimming. > Ken, how low can we go with switching? Could we have 2000, 5000 & 10,000lm > options? Just trying to clarify our options & the difficulty involved > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful > that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat or the > manufacture solder joint would fail. The 5000 lumen Vero 18 has a > diameter of 3.6 cm. The Vero 29, is 4.9 cm or only about 40% larger. My > major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing is that > it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to > dissipate. Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, > I would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it > easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current. Also > with the smaller housing, if we limit the max depth of say 1000 fsw, it > would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing. Also if we > stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it > won't have be submerged to operate. > > The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you. Can't imagine what a 10,000 > lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! > > Not locked to anything at this point. > > Cliff > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's > under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're > talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. > Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 > amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of > these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be > that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it > might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of > four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this > case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. > > A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: > > - Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need > it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a > depth test. > - Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance. > - Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal > expansion. > - Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because > it will keep the oil in reliably! > > Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. > > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon > > More Thoughts > > After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it > would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body > 1-atm LED light and a short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation. My > thinking is in order to fast track the project we could take this design as > a starting point and just geometrically scale up the housing just large > enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base. Should > be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design. We should > be able to use the same Subconn MCBH-3MP connector. We get a good > discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs. This design uses a hard > anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the > lens. The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr. This design did not > have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on > beam angle. > > To me, the key is to work as group on the draft spec that Ken comes up > with. From the housing perspective, the key items the spec needs to call > out are : > > 1) design depth, > 2) 1-atm vs oil pressure compensated, > 3) housing material > 4) type of electrical penetrator > > I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC. Using feedback > from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do > the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to > machine the housing. If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine > shop I work with to machine the housing. After we have the prototype, I can > test it in my test chamber. For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk > has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download > for free and to view and critique design iterations. > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > a few thoughts once you have settled on the > electronics are..... > Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing? > Do we want the housing oil filled? > What sealing configuration do we want? > What beam angle do we want? > What sort of reflector? > What sort of lense? > How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing? > Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available off > the shelf at a reasonable price. > Cheers Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we > want may be the biggest problem. > > Ken > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project. > I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers. > After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB > for the electronics. Having just gone through the exercise of designing a > 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. > > Cliff > On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > I'm on board with the LED light project. > Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LED > flashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses. > I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LED > lights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my > email service not passing through psub emails. I had to go to a gmail > email account to get back in the loop. > > I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux > Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24) . I can help on the housing design and I > have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test > chamber we can use to qualify the prototype. Maybe we could pick one of > the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a > typical psubs application. > > We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, > accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and > testing to keep from swamping the PSUB list. > > I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more > lumens. It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light. > > My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea. > Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on > the project as a first step. Given your background in EE, maybe you could > come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it. > > Cliff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jul 26 21:46:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 01:46:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <292514091.3073253.1437960817775.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <350716966.3161288.1437953759734.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004101d0c802$67494810$35dbd830$@cfl.rr.com> <292514091.3073253.1437960817775.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <848447149.3067269.1437961589726.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Correction,?wire the potentiometer in to the lights 24 or 36 volt system.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Ken,I like the idea of the 2000lm option as well. I have read comments on scuba sitesthat 2000lm is too much, so being able to drop to that may be handy from the too much light?perspective,?as well as for out of?water use.I can't remember seeing any underwater lights with a dimming option.Here is a $5- LED dimmer not sure if it's suitable but there are some cheap options out there.XY-D-RK01 Mini Manual LED Light Strip Dimmer - Beige (12~24V) | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | XY-D-RK01 Mini Manual LED Light Strip Dimmer - Beige ...I like this from DX. Find the cool gadgets at a incredibly low price with worldwide free shipping here. | | | | View on www.dx.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Most LED flashlights I have seen have 3 or 5 modes, which are low light options& include a strobe?mode that fishermen have found is good for attracting fish.Regarding the drive signal to the light for the switching option; wouldn't it be as simple as having?a switch to turn on the main power to the lights & then a potentiometer that is wired to 12 volts that?clicks through 3 stages to signal 2,5,or 10,000lm switching in the light housing electronics.Better still a potentiometer with intergral switch.Alan From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights #yiv1575108437 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv1575108437 filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv1575108437 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv1575108437 p.yiv1575108437MsoNormal, #yiv1575108437 li.yiv1575108437MsoNormal, #yiv1575108437 div.yiv1575108437MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv1575108437 a:link, #yiv1575108437 span.yiv1575108437MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1575108437 a:visited, #yiv1575108437 span.yiv1575108437MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1575108437 span.yiv1575108437EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv1575108437 .yiv1575108437MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv1575108437 filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv1575108437 div.yiv1575108437WordSection1 {}#yiv1575108437 Down to 10% or 20% of the 10,000 lumens or 1000 to 2000 lumens. ?You are right about sending a current down the third wire but that complicates the drive signal external to the light. ?Do any of the existing lights have dimming? ?I know we are sizing this light like the 5000 lumen light but this light will be larger. ?One other thing, this light will not operate very long without cooling (in air) unless we have a large heat sink. It will not be damaged or degraded if left on in air but will shut off and then back on after cooling. I don?t think we ought to have operation in air as a requirement. ?Ken ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 7:36 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Cliff,I'm getting confused here. You are advocating the subconn 3 pin conectorbut on your 5000lm light you have a 5 pin connector.Did you say you had a number of 3 pin connectors?Even with the 3 pin connectors it would be easy to have "switching" by sendinga small current down the 3rd pin. 4 pin & we have anologue dimming.Perhaps we could have a wiring option for just the 3 pins & one for dimming.Ken, how low can we go with switching? Could we have 2000, 5000 & 10,000lmoptions? Just trying to clarify our options & the difficulty involved ? ?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?Alec, on the work we did on the 5000 lumen LED, you had to be very careful that you designed heat sinks in the housing to dissipate heat ?or the manufacture solder joint would fail.??The 5000 lumen ?Vero 18?has a diameter of 3.6 cm.? The Vero 29, is?4.9 cm or only about 40% larger.? My major concern on packaging 4 of these little beast in one housing?is that it is going to pull quite a bit of power and generate a lot of heat to dissipate.? Even though you would save money on connectors as you say, I?would like to see us stick with one Vero 29 arrays per housing to make it easier to deal with the heat and keep from drawing so much current.??Also with the smaller housing, ?if we?limit the?max depth of say 1000 fsw, it would be easy to handle the pressure with a 1-atm housing.? Also if we stick with one Vero 29 array per light, we can design the light so that it won't have be submerged to operate. ?The 5000 lumen light I have will blind you.? Can't imagine what a 10,000 lumen version would be like let alone a 40,000 lumen light! ?Not locked to anything at this point.??? ?Cliff? ? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I was not familiar with the Vero 29 but just looked it up and I see it's under 5cm in diameter and less than 2mm thick! Wow, that means we're talking about a really small little device despite the hefty lumens output. Since the packaging is so small, and given the current draw is about 4 amps... do you guys think it might be worth making an array of four of these Vero 29s into each light? The cost of machining would likely not be that much more, and the cost of the Subconn connector identical, so it might be quite a bit more economical per lumen to go with a little array of four. It would be a ridiculous number of lumens, ridiculous is good in this case and we're still at a size that would fit very easily on any sub. ?A first stab at housing decisions, not very premeditated: ?- Oil filled, so that depth rating is immaterial. In my case I would need it to go to 1000 feet, or more if I wanted it to go on the sub during a depth test.- Aluminum housing, for ease of machining and corrosion resistance.?- Flexible plastic lens, to act as a compensation bladder for thermal expansion.- Subconn connector, not because you need the pressure rating but because it will keep the oil in reliably! ?Just some initial ideas, I don't own the truth. ? ?Best, Alec? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ken/Alan/Alec/Jon? ?More Thoughts ?After Jon sets up a place were we can collaborate and share files, if it would be helpful, I could post the drawings I have for 5000 lumen flat body 1-atm LED light and a? short video of the 5000 lumen LED in operation.? My thinking is?in order to?fast track the project we could take this design as a starting point and just geometrically scale up?the housing? just large enough to fit 10000 lumen Bridgelux Vero 29 and its support base.? Should be plenty of room for a larger diameter PCB that Ken can design.?We?should be able to use the same? Subconn MCBH-3MP connector.? We get a good discount on Subconn connectors through Psubs.? This design uses a hard anodized 6061-T6 for the housing and a 3/8" borosilicate glass for the lens.? The lens was an OTS item from McMaster Carr.?This design did not have a reflector but it would be easy to incorporate after we settle on beam angle.?? ?To me, the key is to work as group on?the?draft spec that Ken comes up with.? From the housing perspective, the key items?the spec needs to call out?are : ?1) design depth, 2) 1-atm vs? oil pressure compensated, 3) housing material 4) type of electrical penetrator ??I have Autodesk Inventor Professional loaded on my PC.? Using feedback from the group I can use Inventor to generate fabrication drawings an do the FEA work. After we freeze the design, we take Alec up on his offer to machine the housing.? If for any reason, he can't , I can use the machine shop I work with to machine the housing.?After?we have the prototype, I can test it in my?test chamber.? For those that don't have Inventor, Autodesk has a nice 3-D viewing software that the team should be able to download for free and to view and critique design iterations. ? Cliff ? ? ???? ?On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ken,a few thoughts once you have settled on the?electronics are.....Do we want a hard anodized aluminium housing?Do we want the housing oil filled?What sealing configuration do we want?What beam angle do we want?What sort of reflector?What sort of lense?How are we going to seal the cable coming in to the housing?? ?Some of these answers may be dictated by what is available offthe shelf at a reasonable price.Cheers Alan ? ?From: Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights ?The electronics and custom PWB won?t be the issue. Figuring out what we want may be the biggest problem.?Ken? ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:52 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Alan, we have a lot of collective experience we could use on the project.? I really love the fact that Ken is an EE with experience LED drivers.? After we agree on specs and packaging I am sure he can design a custom PCB for the electronics.? Having just gone through the exercise of designing a 1-arm housing, I don't think it will be difficult to design the housing. Cliff On Thursday, July 16, 2015, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I'm on board with the LED light project.Have done a bit of experimentation & bought about 10 different LEDflashlights, underwater flashlights, flood lights & various lenses.I also have a friend whose working involves running banks of LEDlights on advertising hordings, if we get stuck on the technical side.Alan?From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights?Ken, I have been off the list for some time due to work and due to my email service not passing through psub emails.? I had to go to a gmail email account to get back in the loop.?I am in on your suggestion to build LED psub light based on the Bridgelux Varo 29 (BXRC-50C 10K0-L-24)?.?? I can help on the housing design and I have access to a machine shop to fabricate the housing. I also have test chamber we can use to qualify the prototype.? Maybe we could pick one of the DeepSea Power and light LEDs take its specifications and tweak to fit a typical psubs application.? ?We would probably need to set up something like Dropbox location, accessible to all that want to participate in the design, fabrication and testing to keep from swamping the PSUB ?list.?I have a function LED subsea light that works fine but would like more lumens.? It is a 5000 lumen light but would like a 10,000 lumen light.?My suggestion is for you take the point since you came up with idea.? Maybe we could canvas the site and see would be interested in working on the project as a first step.? Given your background in EE, maybe you could come up with a first pass at the specification and we can comment on it.?Cliff????? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 06:33:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 11:33:32 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault Message-ID: Hi All I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. I was showing a reading of 24v. So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault down to the lights. The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is grounded to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted the lights, I was aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the light casing itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is no physical connection from the case to the hull. Only the internal wire. Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their wires, there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and the hull is clean of current. So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but I cant see how. The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't leak back? Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre. A mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 06:58:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 22:58:58 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: James were they in the water? Sent from my iPad > On 27/07/2015, at 10:33 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All > > I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. I was showing a reading of 24v. So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. > > I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault down to the lights. > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is grounded to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted the lights, I was aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the light casing itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is no physical connection from the case to the hull. Only the internal wire. > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their wires, there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and the hull is clean of current. > > So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but I cant see how. The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't leak back? > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre. A mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? > > Regards > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 08:13:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 13:13:40 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No. Just sat on the trailer. On 27 July 2015 at 11:58, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James were they in the water? > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27/07/2015, at 10:33 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > > > I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. > > > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive > battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. I was showing a > reading of 24v. So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. > > > > I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault > down to the lights. > > > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is > grounded to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted the lights, I > was aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the light > casing itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is no > physical connection from the case to the hull. Only the internal wire. > > > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their > wires, there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and the hull is clean > of current. > > > > So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but I > cant see how. The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber > and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't > leak back? > > > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin > washers, but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of > rubber and then glass fibre. A mystery unless anyone can see something > obvious? > > > > Regards > > James > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 08:28:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 08:28:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault Message-ID: James, I've found that some rubber compounds are conductive. For instance when I tried to electrically insulate with a piece of inner tube from a tyre, it still passed current. Jim In a message dated 7/27/2015 7:14:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: No. Just sat on the trailer. On 27 July 2015 at 11:58, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: James were they in the water? Sent from my iPad > On 27/07/2015, at 10:33 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) > wrote: > > Hi All > > I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. I was showing a reading of 24v. So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. > > I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault down to the lights. > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is grounded to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted the lights, I was aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the light casing itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is no physical connection from the case to the hull. Only the internal wire. > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their wires, there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and the hull is clean of current. > > So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but I cant see how. The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't leak back? > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre. A mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? > > Regards > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 08:29:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 06:29:28 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What sort of cable? Is it possible that the power supply common is being connected to chassis ground through the cable shield? Sean On July 27, 2015 4:33:32 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All > >I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. > >My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive >battery >terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. I was showing a reading >of >24v. So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. > >I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault >down >to the lights. > >The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is >grounded >to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted the lights, I was >aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the light >casing >itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is no physical >connection from the case to the hull. Only the internal wire. > >Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their >wires, >there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and the hull is clean of >current. > >So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but >I >cant see how. The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with >rubber >and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it >shouldn't >leak back? > >Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin >washers, >but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of rubber and >then glass fibre. A mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? > >Regards >James > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 08:27:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 05:27:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1438000069.89413.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> James, I have had this problem with rubber washers. Some rubber contains carbon, I always put an ohm meter on material that needs to be an insulator. Your rubber is likely a conductor. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/27/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, July 27, 2015, 6:13 AM No.? Just sat on the trailer. On 27 July 2015 at 11:58, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James were they in the water? Sent from my iPad > On 27/07/2015, at 10:33 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All > > I have a very peculiar issue.? I have an earth fault on the boat. > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere.? I was showing a reading of 24v.? So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. > > I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault down to the lights. > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is grounded to the chassis of the light.? However, when I fitted the lights, I was aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the? light casing itself with a piece of rubber.? So theoretically, there is no physical connection from the case to the hull.? Only the internal wire. > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their wires, there is no earth fault.? The lights all work, and the hull is clean of current. > > So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but I cant see how.? The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't leak back? > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre.? A mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? > > Regards > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 08:46:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 13:46:19 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: <1438000069.89413.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1438000069.89413.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ok, that makes sense. It must be conducting. In fact i'll test it later. On 27 July 2015 at 13:27, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > James, > I have had this problem with rubber washers. Some rubber contains carbon, > I always put an ohm meter on material that needs to be an insulator. Your > rubber is likely a conductor. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 7/27/15, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Monday, July 27, 2015, 6:13 AM > > No. Just > sat on the trailer. > On 27 July 2015 at 11:58, > Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > James > were they in the water? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On 27/07/2015, at 10:33 pm, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > Hi All > > > > > > I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault > on the boat. > > > > > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on > the positive battery terminal and the other to the hull > somewhere. I was showing a reading of 24v. So obviously > a negative connection somewhere to the hull. > > > > > > I went around everything taking things off and have > tracked the fault down to the lights. > > > > > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative > connection is grounded to the chassis of the light. > However, when I fitted the lights, I was aware of this and > so insulated the mounting bracket from the light casing > itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is > no physical connection from the case to the hull. Only the > internal wire. > > > > > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them > dangling on their wires, there is no earth fault. The > lights all work, and the hull is clean of current. > > > > > > So the lights must be leaking back through the > connection somehow, but I cant see how. The case is > insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber and the > brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it > shouldn't leak back? > > > > > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts > with delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could > return through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre. A > mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? > > > > > > Regards > > > James > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 10:10:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 22:10:09 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55B63BC1.4070306@archivale.com> Lots of carbon black in tire rubber. Marc On 7/27/2015 8:28 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > I've found that some rubber compounds are conductive. For instance when > I tried to electrically insulate with a piece of inner tube from a tyre, > it still passed current. > Jim > In a message dated 7/27/2015 7:14:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > No. Just sat on the trailer. > > On 27 July 2015 at 11:58, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > James were they in the water? > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27/07/2015, at 10:33 pm, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Hi All > > > > I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. > > > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the > positive battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. > I was showing a reading of 24v. So obviously a negative > connection somewhere to the hull. > > > > I went around everything taking things off and have tracked > the fault down to the lights. > > > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection > is grounded to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted > the lights, I was aware of this and so insulated the mounting > bracket from the light casing itself with a piece of rubber. > So theoretically, there is no physical connection from the case > to the hull. Only the internal wire. > > > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on > their wires, there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and > the hull is clean of current. > > > > So the lights must be leaking back through the connection > somehow, but I cant see how. The case is insulated from the > mounting bracket with rubber and the brackets are connected to > the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't leak back? > > > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with > delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could return > through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre. A mystery > unless anyone can see something obvious? > > > > Regards > > James > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 11:10:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 08:10:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Message-ID: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his shop for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the oil compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you can get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and ?subconscious connector I'm coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. But one off is always more expensive. Best Regards,David Colombo Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights For anyone that has a large LED or?halogens?on their boat,?can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights.?? Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam.? As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep.? This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 12:15:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:15:23 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <55b57d87.278a420a.cacd2.63eb@mx.google.com> References: <1397615467.2299068.1437075267210.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <004d01d0c3d8$edd5abe0$c98103a0$@cfl.rr.com> <1002649222.51211.1437520522571.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1740976149.171393.1437541548328.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <002a01d0c4b6$74667cb0$5d337610$@cfl.rr.com> <55B05B49.8060702@psubs.org> <003e01d0c557$35f0bb20$a1d23160$@cfl.rr.com> <000f01d0c586$578de170$ 06a9a450$@cfl.rr.com> <528747599.2224440.1437769406045.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <709880091.2223889.1437771509325.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000501d0c6e9$04366e20$0ca34a60$@cfl.rr.com> <001f01d0c716$639bfec0$2ad3fc40$@cfl.rr.com> <55b41cc0.0df6420a.1ac25.ffff8a8c@mx.google.com> <004801d0c735$ce0d32f0$6a2798d0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b42b2a.440d460a.01ed.ffff8e62@mx.google.com> <007601d0c79f$bc3bd670$34b38350$@cfl.rr.com> <002a01d0c7a2$b3aa82b0$1aff8810$@cfl.rr.com> <004d01d0c7a7$2a86d650$7f9482f0$@cfl.rr.com> <55b55550.6567460a.75594.3e09@mx.google.com> <002701d0c7ff$85400e60$8fc02b20$@cfl.rr.com> <55b57d87.278a420a.cacd2.63eb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <002c01d0c887$7103a9b0$530afd10$@cfl.rr.com> Thanks Hugh, Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:38 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Ken, hfulton at q-subs.com Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 12:02 p.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, Not sure I get quite the same numbers but not finished calculating. It?s probably cheaper to buy a reflector instead of making one. We are looking at some 20 vendors for reflectors. Cliff found one vendor that all three beam angles can fit into a single housing. If you gave me your E-mail address I don?t have it, sorry. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 5:47 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, Refractive index of Sea water n3 1.34 Refractive index of acrylic n2 1.49 Refractive index of borosilicate glass 1.52 Critical angle 41.26 I am using the above as refraction indices. So I am getting 41.26 and 42.17 for glass and acrylic. Can you please supply what you are using. Havent gone through proper checking but it is going to be hard to get more than about 50 -55 degrees of angle without convexing underside. I was looking at 80 ? 90 degrees for the reflector with 5/8? ? ?? depth and planning on machining out of aluminium then polishing. The light from 90 ? 140deg gets a bit lost between refraction and reflection with some going back onto the emitter. 90 degrees and over 1? starts to increase the body size over ?small light? status but will assist in cooling ability. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 27 July 2015 1:30 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hugh, I think the critical angle is about 48 degrees so anything greater will be reflected. Maybe a reflector of about 90 degrees will give us the maximum flood angle? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:58 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights The 94 watts is a maximum power dissipated. I have not subtracted the power emitted as light. However 94 watts is a good starting point. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:37 AM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Over temperature prevents any overheating. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:35 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees 120 degrees gives you 80 degrees It doesn?t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes. The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED. Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven?t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea. With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof. One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O?rings etc. I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum? ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Re- Dimming. Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. >From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, Dimming, I thought we deleted this? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:29 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary. Cliff On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: This light will require substantial cooling. Total dissipation is about 94 watts. Puts out a lot of light. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass surrounding the light fitting. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk. Cliff On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Looks a good solid light Cliff. On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing in the fairing as you have requested in your list. I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in my situation. Alan _____ From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, How do I look at them?? Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires. Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete. You guys be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Cliff, Ken, I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter. The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light. Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not need to be as intense. Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings, it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost. Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the components needed to get rid of a bit of heat. Mechanical housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light. Alan _____ From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum. Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m? 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming. 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket. Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are reading the specification. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:18 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well. I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results. Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step. Cliff On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost. One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited. Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 13:27:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 13:27:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault Message-ID: Marc, That was a little more than 50 years ago I tried to use a piece of inner tube to insulate an attachment on an electric stock fence. Didn't work, but I learned something very quickly. Rubber boots insulated you pretty well. If you wanted to check operation of the fence, you could grab the fence with one hand and touch the other hand to the ground. You knew right away. Jim In a message dated 7/27/2015 9:11:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Lots of carbon black in tire rubber. Marc On 7/27/2015 8:28 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > I've found that some rubber compounds are conductive. For instance when > I tried to electrically insulate with a piece of inner tube from a tyre, > it still passed current. > Jim > In a message dated 7/27/2015 7:14:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > No. Just sat on the trailer. > > On 27 July 2015 at 11:58, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > James were they in the water? > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27/07/2015, at 10:33 pm, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Hi All > > > > I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. > > > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the > positive battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. > I was showing a reading of 24v. So obviously a negative > connection somewhere to the hull. > > > > I went around everything taking things off and have tracked > the fault down to the lights. > > > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection > is grounded to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted > the lights, I was aware of this and so insulated the mounting > bracket from the light casing itself with a piece of rubber. > So theoretically, there is no physical connection from the case > to the hull. Only the internal wire. > > > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on > their wires, there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and > the hull is clean of current. > > > > So the lights must be leaking back through the connection > somehow, but I cant see how. The case is insulated from the > mounting bracket with rubber and the brackets are connected to > the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't leak back? > > > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with > delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could return > through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre. A mystery > unless anyone can see something obvious? > > > > Regards > > James > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 15:26:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 19:26:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> Message-ID: <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi David,you can get really simple with these LEDs & run the emitter straight fromthe power source. The light intensity fluctuates with the heat, but with thelight intensity we are talking about, it might not be noticable. The trick wouldbe picking a voltage low enough so that it didn't get too bright & burn out the?emitter when it?warmed up.?Next step up in simplicity is to just stick a resistor in series, & there arecalculators for this on line. I am wondering if a thermister instead of a resisterwould be a good idea, as this would restrict the current as the unit heated up.It may be a good option for running out of water if the thermister values were right.The beauty of this system would be that you would only have 2 componentsthat you could damage by heating. The down side is a reduction in efficiencyover a buck driver type system.Cheers Alan From: Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his shop for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the oil compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you can get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and ?subconscious connector I'm coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. But one off is always more expensive. Best Regards,David Colombo Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights For anyone that has a large LED or?halogens?on their boat,?can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights.?? Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam.? As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep.? This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 15:33:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 19:33:50 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, one thing that I have observed so far is that without a heat sink, the led will heat up in about 15 seconds and then start to flash on and off. On Mon, Jul 27, 2015, 12:29 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi David, > you can get really simple with these LEDs & run the emitter straight from > the power source. The light intensity fluctuates with the heat, but with > the > light intensity we are talking about, it might not be noticable. The trick > would > be picking a voltage low enough so that it didn't get too bright & burn > out the > emitter when it warmed up. > Next step up in simplicity is to just stick a resistor in series, & there > are > calculators for this on line. I am wondering if a thermister instead of a > resister > would be a good idea, as this would restrict the current as the unit > heated up. > It may be a good option for running out of water if the thermister values > were right. > The beauty of this system would be that you would only have 2 components > that you could damage by heating. The down side is a reduction in > efficiency > over a buck driver type system. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his shop > for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the oil > compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you can > get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ > volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will > testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. > Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and subconscious connector I'm > coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. > But one off is always more expensive. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > For anyone that has a large LED or halogens on their boat, can you share > your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights. Building a LED housing to > be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a > reflector to get a narrow beam. As an example, a typical reflector size > for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep. This is > massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. > > I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 15:42:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:42:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] power test Message-ID: <1438026173.18451.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> David, You were going to do some bollard pull testing with your Minn Kota motor. Did you ever get around to it. I did a test dive today with two 50 lb thrust Minn Kota's. I scabbed a couple of brackets under the ballast tanks to mount them. I am trying to determine what size motors I will need. The two 50's push Gamma at the same speed as the main 2 hp drive motor. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 15:53:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 19:53:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> David,do you have some sort of thermostat in the driver or are you that makes it blink.or are you simply using resistors??Here is the link to the Newtsun, it doesn't say in the specs that it is oil filledbut I remember being told that & it's design indicates that.http://nuytco.com/products/newtsun-100/ Alan From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Alan, one thing that I have observed so far is that without a heat sink, the led will heat up in about 15 seconds and then start to flash on and off. On Mon, Jul 27, 2015, 12:29 PM?Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi David,you can get really simple with these LEDs & run the emitter straight fromthe power source. The light intensity fluctuates with the heat, but with thelight intensity we are talking about, it might not be noticable. The trick wouldbe picking a voltage low enough so that it didn't get too bright & burn out the?emitter when it?warmed up.?Next step up in simplicity is to just stick a resistor in series, & there arecalculators for this on line. I am wondering if a thermister instead of a resisterwould be a good idea, as this would restrict the current as the unit heated up.It may be a good option for running out of water if the thermister values were right.The beauty of this system would be that you would only have 2 componentsthat you could damage by heating. The down side is a reduction in efficiencyover a buck driver type system.Cheers Alan From: Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his shop for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the oil compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you can get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and ?subconscious connector I'm coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. But one off is always more expensive. Best Regards,David Colombo Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights For anyone that has a large LED or?halogens?on their boat,?can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights.?? Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam.? As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep.? This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 17:15:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 23:15:55 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello all; what about removing all electronics from each lamp, keeping a simple cavity with just the led array; connector; and lens? The back face from where the led array would be glued would sit in water for efficient heat dissipation. Then the electronics would be enclosed in a separate 1atm casing; with less of heat management constraints, from that extra box; you can have as many outlets as lights on your boat (say 3 to 4 typically), and one inlet only from the hull (safer) with sufficient number of pins to control lighting modes; dimming and what not in a preprogrammed switching sequence. this option simplifies lights designs, makes electronics a bit more complicated but merges it in one pcb but increases number of connectors; but if you go for blue globes between central electronics box to the light pods it is not an issue. However; I know nothing in electronics; so I don t know what sort of cable length we could have between electronics and led without loosing nice control of led voltage? regards Antoine On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > do you have some sort of thermostat in the driver or are you that makes it > blink. > or are you simply using resistors? > Here is the link to the Newtsun, it doesn't say in the specs that it is > oil filled > but I remember being told that & it's design indicates that. > http://nuytco.com/products/newtsun-100/ > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:33 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Hi Alan, one thing that I have observed so far is that without a heat > sink, the led will heat up in about 15 seconds and then start to flash on > and off. > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2015, 12:29 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi David, > you can get really simple with these LEDs & run the emitter straight from > the power source. The light intensity fluctuates with the heat, but with > the > light intensity we are talking about, it might not be noticable. The trick > would > be picking a voltage low enough so that it didn't get too bright & burn > out the > emitter when it warmed up. > Next step up in simplicity is to just stick a resistor in series, & there > are > calculators for this on line. I am wondering if a thermister instead of a > resister > would be a good idea, as this would restrict the current as the unit > heated up. > It may be a good option for running out of water if the thermister values > were right. > The beauty of this system would be that you would only have 2 components > that you could damage by heating. The down side is a reduction in > efficiency > over a buck driver type system. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his shop > for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the oil > compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you can > get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ > volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will > testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. > Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and subconscious connector I'm > coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. > But one off is always more expensive. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > For anyone that has a large LED or halogens on their boat, can you share > your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights. Building a LED housing to > be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a > reflector to get a narrow beam. As an example, a typical reflector size > for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep. This is > massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. > > I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 18:01:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:01:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] production halt Message-ID: <20150727150107.1DB8153B@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 18:07:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:07:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sky Hook Message-ID: <20150727150755.1DB81493@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 18:41:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:41:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sky Hook In-Reply-To: <20150727150755.1DB81493@m0048138.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1438036908.70403.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, You don't need a pole just Yoga :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7/27/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sky Hook To: "PSubs" Received: Monday, July 27, 2015, 4:07 PM Have a idea for a pole that telescopes out of the hatch, way above the hatch by about 3 feet or so, the idea would be?that?it would give you something to pull?yourself up and out of the conning tower with.??Sometimes it can be a bit awkward trying to balance yourself as you?climb down?off the conning tower, with something to hold onto over head I think would be useful.? I noticed this while using my overhead chain support.?Brian?? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 19:35:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 23:35:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ In-Reply-To: <55B455D9.9000307@psubs.org> References: <55B455D9.9000307@psubs.org> Message-ID: <330191035.3808416.1438040149804.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,everyone would agree that you have done a great job behind the scenes?keeping this group running. If you consider the web blog the way to go,how about giving notice of a closure of the email system with a 2 Weekcount down to give people an oportunity to register for the web blog & get?their head around what's going on.Maybe an email every day "12 more days till close down" etc. Then 3 Weeks on the web based system to see how it goes before opening up the email again.?At least with the web based system if we don't get email notification of web posts?due to spamming we can check?on site.?What do people reckon???Cheers Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:36 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ Email is becoming a problem.? It is becoming more difficult to deal with the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards.? The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach that end. You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS server.? This is why emails now show " via personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as it use to be.? Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that.? This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't block our discussion list. Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is and find a fix for it.? Worse, I never know if there is really a problem or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and says they haven't seen any messages for a while.? I am finding I have less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions.? Therefore, I have resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various discussion forums.? I am not going to shut-off the email based discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for them either.? For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the answer will be, move over to the web-forum. It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the web-forum.? So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now.? I personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers. Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer providing technical support for it.? The web based forum will become our "official" means of communication even though we (including me) may still use the email method. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 21:22:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:22:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] power test In-Reply-To: <1438026173.18451.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1438026173.18451.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I just got my thruster adapter tubes completed with Delrin and am waiting for the Subconn connectors to arrive. Once I have them the test will begin. I'll share the test results when completed. I will be using the Minn Kota PWM as part of the the test so I can measure amp draws at different speeds and loads and the battery drain time line. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > You were going to do some bollard pull testing with your Minn Kota > motor. Did you ever get around to it. > I did a test dive today with two 50 lb thrust Minn Kota's. I scabbed a > couple of brackets under the ballast tanks to mount them. I am trying to > determine what size motors I will need. The two 50's push Gamma at the > same speed as the main 2 hp drive motor. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 21:37:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, I am using the 120vac to 36vdc transformers that came with the LEDs when I ordered them to test. I have not tore one apart to see whats inside. All I know is that the LEDS heat up pretty rapidly in air, then start smoke and then start to turn on and off. If I let it go very long, the off period becomes longer. The interesting thing, is that I don't seem to loose any of the leds in the array when this happens, Though I don't wait very long to have a thermal melt down. When my housing is completed, I plan on using longer leads then currently exist on the transformer, and will be measuring voltage drop and amp draws when in the water cooled tank. The challenge I am having right now is is trying to figure out how to accurately measure the lumens. The ap on my cell phone will do lux, but the math seems wrong on the conversion. Especially when I test between incandescent and the leds. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > do you have some sort of thermostat in the driver or are you that makes it > blink. > or are you simply using resistors? > Here is the link to the Newtsun, it doesn't say in the specs that it is > oil filled > but I remember being told that & it's design indicates that. > http://nuytco.com/products/newtsun-100/ > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:33 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Hi Alan, one thing that I have observed so far is that without a heat > sink, the led will heat up in about 15 seconds and then start to flash on > and off. > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2015, 12:29 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi David, > you can get really simple with these LEDs & run the emitter straight from > the power source. The light intensity fluctuates with the heat, but with > the > light intensity we are talking about, it might not be noticable. The trick > would > be picking a voltage low enough so that it didn't get too bright & burn > out the > emitter when it warmed up. > Next step up in simplicity is to just stick a resistor in series, & there > are > calculators for this on line. I am wondering if a thermister instead of a > resister > would be a good idea, as this would restrict the current as the unit > heated up. > It may be a good option for running out of water if the thermister values > were right. > The beauty of this system would be that you would only have 2 components > that you could damage by heating. The down side is a reduction in > efficiency > over a buck driver type system. > Cheers Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his shop > for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the oil > compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you can > get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ > volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will > testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. > Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and subconscious connector I'm > coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. > But one off is always more expensive. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights > > > > For anyone that has a large LED or halogens on their boat, can you share > your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights. Building a LED housing to > be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a > reflector to get a narrow beam. As an example, a typical reflector size > for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep. This is > massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. > > I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? > > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jul 27 22:42:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 02:42:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <801915920.4099317.1438051348317.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi David,on Googling it seems you need an intergrating sphere to measure lumensif you don't want to convert from lux. They are expensive.? ?I ran my 1000 lumen flood lamp without the lense in place, & you couldn't touchthe housing for 1/2 a second after 5 minutes use. Goodness knows how hot a10,000lm unit will get with the lense on! I ran it off a bench top power supplystraight on to the emitter, so bypassed the LED driver. It worked ok for over an hourtill I turned it off.Alan From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Alan, I am using the 120vac to 36vdc transformers that came with the LEDs when I ordered them to test. I have not tore one apart to see whats inside. All I know is that the LEDS heat up pretty rapidly in air, then start smoke? and then start to turn on and off. If I let it go very long, the off period becomes longer. The interesting thing, is that I don't seem to loose any of the leds in the array when this happens, Though I don't wait very long to have a thermal melt down. When my housing is completed, I plan on using longer leads then currently exist on the transformer, and will be measuring voltage drop and amp draws when in the water cooled tank. The challenge I am? having right now is is trying to figure out how to accurately measure the lumens. The ap on my cell phone will do lux, but the math seems wrong on the conversion. Especially when I test between incandescent and the leds.? ? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David,do you have some sort of thermostat in the driver or are you that makes it blink.or are you simply using resistors??Here is the link to the Newtsun, it doesn't say in the specs that it is oil filledbut I remember being told that & it's design indicates that.http://nuytco.com/products/newtsun-100/ Alan From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Alan, one thing that I have observed so far is that without a heat sink, the led will heat up in about 15 seconds and then start to flash on and off. On Mon, Jul 27, 2015, 12:29 PM?Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi David,you can get really simple with these LEDs & run the emitter straight fromthe power source. The light intensity fluctuates with the heat, but with thelight intensity we are talking about, it might not be noticable. The trick wouldbe picking a voltage low enough so that it didn't get too bright & burn out the?emitter when it?warmed up.?Next step up in simplicity is to just stick a resistor in series, & there arecalculators for this on line. I am wondering if a thermister instead of a resisterwould be a good idea, as this would restrict the current as the unit heated up.It may be a good option for running out of water if the thermister values were right.The beauty of this system would be that you would only have 2 componentsthat you could damage by heating. The down side is a reduction in efficiencyover a buck driver type system.Cheers Alan From: Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his shop for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the oil compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you can get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and ?subconscious connector I'm coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. But one off is always more expensive. Best Regards,David Colombo Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights For anyone that has a large LED or?halogens?on their boat,?can you share your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights.?? Building a LED housing to be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a reflector to get a narrow beam.? As an example, a typical reflector size for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep.? This is massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light adequate? Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 08:36:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 05:36:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] trolling moter source Message-ID: <1438086962.13704.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I am looking for a place to buy trolling motors, just the motors. Any leads would be great. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 10:05:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:05:39 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you look at the Deepwater Power and Light web site, http://www.deepsea.com/products/lights/led-matrix-3r-sealite/ they have as light as you describe. Could be an option for phase 2. Right now, we are focusing on a self contained light. On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hello all; > what about removing all electronics from each lamp, keeping a simple > cavity with just the led array; connector; and lens? > The back face from where the led array would be glued would sit in water > for efficient heat dissipation. > > Then the electronics would be enclosed in a separate 1atm casing; with > less of heat management constraints, > from that extra box; you can have as many outlets as lights on your boat > (say 3 to 4 typically), and one inlet only from the hull (safer) with > sufficient number of pins to control lighting modes; dimming and what not > in a preprogrammed switching sequence. > > this option simplifies lights designs, makes electronics a bit more > complicated but merges it in one pcb but increases number of connectors; > but if you go for blue globes between central electronics box to the light > pods it is not an issue. > However; I know nothing in electronics; so I don t know what sort of cable > length we could have between electronics and led without loosing nice > control of led voltage? > > regards > Antoine > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> David, >> do you have some sort of thermostat in the driver or are you that makes >> it blink. >> or are you simply using resistors? >> Here is the link to the Newtsun, it doesn't say in the specs that it is >> oil filled >> but I remember being told that & it's design indicates that. >> http://nuytco.com/products/newtsun-100/ >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:33 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Hi Alan, one thing that I have observed so far is that without a heat >> sink, the led will heat up in about 15 seconds and then start to flash on >> and off. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015, 12:29 PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi David, >> you can get really simple with these LEDs & run the emitter straight from >> the power source. The light intensity fluctuates with the heat, but with >> the >> light intensity we are talking about, it might not be noticable. The >> trick would >> be picking a voltage low enough so that it didn't get too bright & burn >> out the >> emitter when it warmed up. >> Next step up in simplicity is to just stick a resistor in series, & there >> are >> calculators for this on line. I am wondering if a thermister instead of a >> resister >> would be a good idea, as this would restrict the current as the unit >> heated up. >> It may be a good option for running out of water if the thermister values >> were right. >> The beauty of this system would be that you would only have 2 components >> that you could damage by heating. The down side is a reduction in >> efficiency >> over a buck driver type system. >> Cheers Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> Hi Cliff, maybe Phil could chime in on his led he demonstrated at his >> shop for use on the deep workers. It had only a flexible membrane over the >> oil compensated led housing. I think his design is about as compact as you >> can get, and I recall it had now fins, but run a voltage up to around 200+ >> volts. Seems to me that simpler the better, is the idea here. For me I will >> testing my design hopefully next week. with 4 leds, wired for high and low. >> Based upon alum cost, machining, leds and subconscious connector I'm >> coming in around $500 for each light. Cost may drop with multiple units. >> But one off is always more expensive. >> >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Date: 2015/07/26 1:28 PM (GMT-08:00) >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights >> >> >> >> For anyone that has a large LED or halogens on their boat, can you share >> your experience on narrow beam vs flood lights. Building a LED housing to >> be low profile to fit in a FRP recess is going to be difficult with a >> reflector to get a narrow beam. As an example, a typical reflector size >> for a Vero 29 is 110mm (4.33") diameter and 67mm (2.64") deep. This is >> massive and you still need housing and heat sink fins. >> >> I am wonder if we really need a focused light or is a flood light >> adequate? >> >> Cliff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 10:06:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:06:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] production halt In-Reply-To: <20150727150107.1DB8153B@m0048138.ppops.net> References: <20150727150107.1DB8153B@m0048138.ppops.net> Message-ID: Kind of hard to build a psub with no power! On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:01 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > My submarine production has temporarily been put to a grinding > halt due to a power failure feeding our house !! The Edison crews are due > out to dig up the street, can't run any 240 V power, like my Mill or my > Lathe........... arrrrrggg !!!!!!!!!!! > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 10:10:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:10:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ In-Reply-To: <330191035.3808416.1438040149804.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <55B455D9.9000307@psubs.org> <330191035.3808416.1438040149804.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, Alan has some good suggestion to help with migration. Nothing like a deadline to motivate us to move. BTW, using the Forum for the LED project has worked pretty well. Cliff On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, > everyone would agree that you have done a great job behind the scenes > keeping this group running. If you consider the web blog the way to go, > how about giving notice of a closure of the email system with a 2 Week > count down to give people an oportunity to register for the web blog & get > their head around what's going on. > Maybe an email every day "12 more days till close down" etc. > Then 3 Weeks on the web based system to see how it goes before opening up > the email again.? > At least with the web based system if we don't get email notification of > web posts > due to spamming we can check on site. > What do people reckon??? > Cheers Alan > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:36 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ > > > Email is becoming a problem. It is becoming more difficult to deal with > the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, > and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though > I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards. > The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam > reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach > that end. > > You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those > submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS > server. This is why emails now show " via > personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as > it use to be. Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking > the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that. > This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution > was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't > block our discussion list. > > Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our > discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is > and find a fix for it. Worse, I never know if there is really a problem > or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and > says they haven't seen any messages for a while. I am finding I have > less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less > desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions. Therefore, I have > resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various > discussion forums. I am not going to shut-off the email based > discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for > them either. For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the > answer will be, move over to the web-forum. > > It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list > is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the > web-forum. So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if > you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now. I > personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the > white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to > chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers. > > Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer > providing technical support for it. The web based forum will become our > "official" means of communication even though we (including me) may > still use the email method. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 10:12:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:12:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] power test In-Reply-To: References: <1438026173.18451.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, I am looking forward to you posting these results. Are you using Kort nozzle. Could be interesting. Cliff On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 8:22 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Hank, > I just got my thruster adapter tubes completed with Delrin and am waiting > for the Subconn connectors to arrive. Once I have them the test will begin. > I'll share the test results when completed. I will be using the Minn Kota > PWM as part of the the test so I can measure amp draws at different speeds > and loads and the battery drain time line. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:42 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> David, >> You were going to do some bollard pull testing with your Minn Kota >> motor. Did you ever get around to it. >> I did a test dive today with two 50 lb thrust Minn Kota's. I scabbed a >> couple of brackets under the ballast tanks to mount them. I am trying to >> determine what size motors I will need. The two 50's push Gamma at the >> same speed as the main 2 hp drive motor. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 13:51:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:51:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Delrin gear box Message-ID: <20150728105128.C196FD55@m0048139.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Six-to-one2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 76230 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ninety-degree-delron.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 75606 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 15:18:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:18:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Delrin gear box In-Reply-To: <20150728105128.C196FD55@m0048139.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1438111136.17148.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I assume this is low rpm to control things? I would not coat it with grease, I would pack it plumb full of grease. Just thread in a couple of nipples and fill er up. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/28/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Delrin gear box To: "PSubs" Received: Tuesday, July 28, 2015, 11:51 AM Hi All ,??????????????????? Here is my delron? 6 to 1 gear box.?? The unit?is all stainless, along with the shaft, the delron a great material for a water environment.?? The only problem I had was the bevel gears which are ;not stainless, so my plan is to just coat them with grease.? Also my 90 degree gears use the same system of containment, using snap rings to hold the alignment secure.?Brian? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 16:26:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 20:26:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ In-Reply-To: References: <55B455D9.9000307@psubs.org> <330191035.3808416.1438040149804.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1096622533.4981271.1438115215220.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I have been reluctant to post a lot on the web forum at this stage,as there is a large pool of experience that you eliminate by doing so.There are some big fish out there like Phil, that are busy people& chime in occasionally. At the moment we will be eliminating?their?contribution by just posting on the web on the lighting subject.?I personally prefer the mail system, because I can read & delete orlet the email sit there for a few days & maybe move in to the "important"file. Gets rid of a lot of clutter.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ Jon, Alan has some good suggestion to help with migration. Nothing like a deadline to motivate us to move.? BTW, using the Forum for the LED project has worked pretty well.? Cliff On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,everyone would agree that you have done a great job behind the scenes?keeping this group running. If you consider the web blog the way to go,how about giving notice of a closure of the email system with a 2 Weekcount down to give people an oportunity to register for the web blog & get?their head around what's going on.Maybe an email every day "12 more days till close down" etc. Then 3 Weeks on the web based system to see how it goes before opening up the email again.?At least with the web based system if we don't get email notification of web posts?due to spamming we can check?on site.?What do people reckon???Cheers Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:36 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ Email is becoming a problem.? It is becoming more difficult to deal with the numerous ways internet providers are dealing with perceived spam, and PSUBS email is often interpreted as unsolicited mail even though I've been careful to configure it to comply with industry standards.? The real problem is that internet providers in their zest to stop spam reaching their customers are implementing non-standard means to reach that end. You will recall that the latest "fix" was to make it look like those submitting mail to the list were actually doing so from the PSUBS server.? This is why emails now show " via personal_submersibles" instead of the actual submitters email address as it use to be.? Additionally, more and more providers are simply blocking the PSUBS discussion list completely and we have no solution for that.? This happened just recently to one of our members and the only solution was to get an account someplace (usually gmail or yahoo) that didn't block our discussion list. Bottom line is that when these spam issues arise it usually kills our discussions until I can get the time to determine what the real issue is and find a fix for it.? Worse, I never know if there is really a problem or if the list is just quiet, until someone contacts me personally and says they haven't seen any messages for a while.? I am finding I have less time overall to deal with email configuration issues and less desire to spend my time chasing after such solutions.? Therefore, I have resurrected web based forums on the website and set up various discussion forums.? I am not going to shut-off the email based discussions, but I am no longer going to provide technical support for them either.? For anyone that encounters email issues in the future, the answer will be, move over to the web-forum. It behooves us to start this process now while the email discussion list is still working adequately so we can resolve any issues with the web-forum.? So please take the time to register on the web-forum even if you still intend to use the email list as your primary means for now.? I personally prefer email to the web-forum, but I have finally raised the white-flag and capitulated because of the pain involved with trying to chase the anti-spam policies of major internet providers. Again, the email discussion list is not closing down, but I am no longer providing technical support for it.? The web based forum will become our "official" means of communication even though we (including me) may still use the email method. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 16:38:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:38:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning Message-ID: <1438115890.7548.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am trying to figure out the thruster position for all my thrusters before I take Gamma apart. I have tested with two thruster pointing strait ahead. That worked well, now I have the same two thruster on angles opposing each other. I notice on some commercial subs that the thrusters are vectored, in fact four forward facing thrusters, one at each corner. I assume the way it works is, all four thrusters are turned on, two in forward and two in reverse. To go strait ahead all four turn on in the same direction. I am trying to keep it at 6 thrusters but may need 8. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 16:42:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 16:42:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901d0c975$f7d74020$e785c060$@cfl.rr.com> The latest revision is posted on the Web forum. For the sake of simplicity we are currently going with no dimming and a flat port. Take a look at the posting. Thanks, Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 16:49:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 22:49:26 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I overlooked the chassis of the 24 to 12 VDC convertor.. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: maandag 27 juli 2015 12:34 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault Hi All I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive battery terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. I was showing a reading of 24v. So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault down to the lights. The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is grounded to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted the lights, I was aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the light casing itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is no physical connection from the case to the hull. Only the internal wire. Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their wires, there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and the hull is clean of current. So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but I cant see how. The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't leak back? Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin washers, but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of rubber and then glass fibre. A mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 19:35:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 18:35:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: <000901d0c975$f7d74020$e785c060$@cfl.rr.com> References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000901d0c975$f7d74020$e785c060$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Len, under section 13.0 you still have the connector and pinout for a dimming option. This needs to be pulled. Also, can you also uploade the spec as a doc format so I can open in MS Word. Thanks On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > The latest revision is posted on the Web forum. For the sake of simplicity > we are currently going with no dimming and a flat port. > > > > Take a look at the posting. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 22:58:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 22:58:20 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights In-Reply-To: References: <67i2fonjp12qo0x75vtdq0eq.1438009847405@email.android.com> <440728908.3859314.1438025168763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <648147015.3828898.1438026807431.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <000901d0c975$f7d74020$e785c060$@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01d0c9aa$6d12b430$47381c90$@cfl.rr.com> Fixed it, now revision 4. See web forum. Ken From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 7:35 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights Len, under section 13.0 you still have the connector and pinout for a dimming option. This needs to be pulled. Also, can you also uploade the spec as a doc format so I can open in MS Word. Thanks On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: The latest revision is posted on the Web forum. For the sake of simplicity we are currently going with no dimming and a flat port. Take a look at the posting. Thanks, Ken _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jul 28 23:26:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 20:26:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning In-Reply-To: <1438115890.7548.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1438115890.7548.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005601d0c9ae$5b074540$1115cfc0$@telus.net> Hey Hank, Take note of the DW configuration. Four fixed reversible thrusters, two horizontal and two vertical but canted out by 45 degrees. The two horizontal control surge (both powered forward or in reverse) and yaw (one powered forward, the other in reverse). The two vertical control heave (both powered up or down) and translate (one powered up, the other down). There is no roll or pitch control, the ballast block (batteries and lead) keep the vehicle level on those axis (slight roll during translate operation). Some ROV's have four fixed reversible horizontal thrusters, one on each corner, with the front two pointed 45 degrees inward and the aft two pointed 45 degrees outward, and one vertical reversible thruster. The four horizontal control surge (all powered forward or reverse), yaw (one side forward the other side reverse), and translate (one aft thruster forward, the other reverse, and one front thruster forward and the other reverse). The vertical thruster controls heave. Minimum two axis control is one steerable reversible thruster to control surge and yaw. Control heave with buoyancy or dive planes which really is pitch control rather than true heave. Minimum three axis control is two independent rotating non-reversible thrusters, one on each side, to control surge, heave and yaw by the direction they are pointed (the SportSub has this but they must rotate together and are therefore reversible). If they are also canted out 45 degrees then you also get to control translate. Pitch and roll are necessary in airplanes, but not in personal submarines (okay sometimes pitch is useful for powered ascent and descent). I think three reversible thruster do the trick, the primary in the stern that is steerable for surge and yaw, and one canted reversible rotatable on each side for heave, translate, surge redundancy, and yaw redundancy. Place those two on the sides just forward of hydrodynamic centre and you also get a bit of powered pitch. What configuration were you thinking about with six thrusters? Eight? Are you looking for redundancy or only non-reversible thrusters? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-28-15 1:38 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning I am trying to figure out the thruster position for all my thrusters before I take Gamma apart. I have tested with two thruster pointing strait ahead. That worked well, now I have the same two thruster on angles opposing each other. I notice on some commercial subs that the thrusters are vectored, in fact four forward facing thrusters, one at each corner. I assume the way it works is, all four thrusters are turned on, two in forward and two in reverse. To go strait ahead all four turn on in the same direction. I am trying to keep it at 6 thrusters but may need 8. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 29 05:37:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 10:37:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Emile, I have a Durite one which has an isolated return. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Durite-24V-to-12V-Isolated-Dropper-Voltage-Converter-10-Amp-0-578-60-/221693394113?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item339df4bcc1 Regards James On 28 July 2015 at 21:49, Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I overlooked the chassis of the 24 to 12 VDC convertor.. > > > > Emile > > > ------------------------------ > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* maandag 27 juli 2015 12:34 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Earth Fault > > > > Hi All > > > > I have a very peculiar issue. I have an earth fault on the boat. > > > > My test consists of holding one probe of the meter on the positive battery > terminal and the other to the hull somewhere. I was showing a reading of > 24v. So obviously a negative connection somewhere to the hull. > > > > I went around everything taking things off and have tracked the fault down > to the lights. > > > > The lights are the trustfire ones and the negative connection is grounded > to the chassis of the light. However, when I fitted the lights, I was > aware of this and so insulated the mounting bracket from the light casing > itself with a piece of rubber. So theoretically, there is no physical > connection from the case to the hull. Only the internal wire. > > > > Anyway, if I disconnect the lights and leave them dangling on their wires, > there is no earth fault. The lights all work, and the hull is clean of > current. > > > > So the lights must be leaking back through the connection somehow, but I > cant see how. The case is insulated from the mounting bracket with rubber > and the brackets are connected to the fibreglass faring, so it shouldn't > leak back? > > > > Anyway, ive fixed it by insulating the mounting bolts with delrin washers, > but I cant see how the earth could return through a piece of rubber and > then glass fibre. A mystery unless anyone can see something obvious? > > Regards > > James > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 29 09:10:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 14:10:38 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Message-ID: Hi All, Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back. Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank. If I T in this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out. I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts? Thanks James ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: T.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22870 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 29 16:58:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 08:58:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> Hi James. Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble. Hugh. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Hi All, Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back. Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank. If I T in this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out. I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts? Thanks James ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12559 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 29 20:25:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 19:25:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) Message-ID: <8yrkqan8vdth3cvkw5w0uug6.1438215911109@email.android.com> The saddle tanks are 75" long and 22" tall. They are rounded to fit the shap of the submarine.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/24/2015 3:10 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) Scott, Those saddle tanks might be interesting. What dimensions? Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2015 11:23 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) I'm at the point where I'm wondering how close my weight and volume calcs are to reality, and in theory I'm good but will only know for sure when the boat makes it to the water. If you still have any of these lying around in six months time, I might be calling you! Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have 8 of them. They are rounded to conform to a hull. They are roughly 12"x12"x 18". ? Thanks, Scott Waters? ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 7:40 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Hi Scott, What are the dimensions of those foam blocks? Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, ? I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all my metal working?equipment and I need the space to work. ? *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for both) *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) ? If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. ? Thank you, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 29 22:28:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 16:28:17 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: <8yrkqan8vdth3cvkw5w0uug6.1438215911109@email.android.com> References: <8yrkqan8vdth3cvkw5w0uug6.1438215911109@email.android.com> Message-ID: Thanks Scott, I will also need to get a rough idea of the total weight as well to get a quote. Any Idea's? Rick On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 2:25 PM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > The saddle tanks are 75" long and 22" tall. They are rounded to fit the > shap of the submarine. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 07/24/2015 3:10 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap > yard) > > Scott, > Those saddle tanks might be interesting. What dimensions? > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2015 11:23 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap > yard) > > I'm at the point where I'm wondering how close my weight and volume > calcs are to reality, and in theory I'm good but will only know for sure > when the boat makes it to the water. If you still have any of these lying > around in six months time, I might be calling you! > > Thanks, > > Alec > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have 8 of them. They are rounded to conform to a hull. They are >> roughly 12"x12"x 18". >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the >> scrap yard) >> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 7:40 am >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> >> Hi Scott, >> >> What are the dimensions of those foam blocks? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hey guys, >>> >>> I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the >>> scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all >>> my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. >>> >>> *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for >>> both) >>> *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) >>> *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) >>> *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) >>> *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) >>> *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure >>> housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor >>> controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 >>> knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been >>> asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. >>> *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) >>> >>> If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all >>> for $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jul 29 22:36:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:36:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) In-Reply-To: <8yrkqan8vdth3cvkw5w0uug6.1438215911109@email.android.com> References: <8yrkqan8vdth3cvkw5w0uug6.1438215911109@email.android.com> Message-ID: <3AD1E21A-A79B-4935-8CF7-BB7971ADFA18@AOL.com> Sounds like just what I need. Can you contact me direct? VBra676539 at AOL.com Vance Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 29, 2015, at 8:25 PM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The saddle tanks are 75" long and 22" tall. They are rounded to fit the shap of the submarine. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 07/24/2015 3:10 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) > > Scott, > Those saddle tanks might be interesting. What dimensions? > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2015 11:23 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the scrap yard) > > I'm at the point where I'm wondering how close my weight and volume calcs are to reality, and in theory I'm good but will only know for sure when the boat makes it to the water. If you still have any of these lying around in six months time, I might be calling you! > > Thanks, > > Alec > >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I have 8 of them. They are rounded to conform to a hull. They are roughly 12"x12"x 18". >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stuff for sale (Must go or going to the >> scrap yard) >> From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date: Thu, July 23, 2015 7:40 am >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> >> Hi Scott, >> >> What are the dimensions of those foam blocks? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alec >> >>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:35 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hey guys, >>> >>> I have some items for sale that either have to go, or are going to the scrap yard / trash / or ebay. My shop is packed with 2 submarines, and all my metal working equipment and I need the space to work. >>> >>> *Two saddle ballast tanks fitted for a K-350 size hull (asking $200 for both) >>> *4 canister light housings (asking $100 for all) >>> *1 canister light or camera housing (asking $25) >>> *Body paneling for a K-350 to make it streamline ($100) >>> *Syntactic foam blocks rated to 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant force) >>> *Propulsion system which includes a 12hp 72 volt motor with pressure housing and brass propeller, 72 volt lester battery charger, and motor controller with pressure housing. (this was on a K-350 and made it go 9 knots!. This would be great for a diesel electric submarine) I have been asking $4,000 for it, but I am open to offers. >>> *Sheet of Acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" (asking $300) >>> >>> If someone wants to take everything off my hands, I would sell it all for $3,000 just to get it out of my shop. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 04:45:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 09:45:53 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> References: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Hugh, Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea. Anyway, its going in this weekend. I know where the bubble is. I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones. Maybe that's why I get the bubble. Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue. Regards James On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James. > > Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, > then see if the outlet is above the bubble. > > Hugh. > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". > > > > Hi All, > > > > Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back. > Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the > front or rear tank. > > > > If I T in this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first > and still get the bubble out. I cant see anything wrong with this, but I > though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts? > Thanks > > James > > > > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12559 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 08:33:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 12:33:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning In-Reply-To: <005601d0c9ae$5b074540$1115cfc0$@telus.net> References: <005601d0c9ae$5b074540$1115cfc0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <2110881087.5089150.1438259638455.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I learned a lot yesterday, I repositioned my test thrusters from strait ahead to angled almost 45 degrees. ?My concern was the forward speed would suffer greatly. ?In fact the forward speed is still very good, and the turning performance is also good. ?I am now ?thinking I will use ?4 thrusters. ? I am not sure about the DW set up because the DW is a short wide machine compared to Gamma. ?I am thinking the same for the vertical thrusters, but the forward thrusters might be in the front on an angle. ?I will test with the thrusters in the rear before I commit. ? If the forward thrusters are in the front, I can see them and it is easier to make them jettisoning .The viz in Premier lake is still 15 feet and I am still?struggling with my compass. ?I think I will have to go electronic because what I have is useless.Hank On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 9:26 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey Hank, Take note of the DW configuration. Four fixed reversible thrusters, two horizontal and two vertical but canted out by 45 degrees. The two horizontal control surge (both powered forward or in reverse) and yaw (one powered forward, the other in reverse). The two vertical control heave (both powered up or down) and translate (one powered up, the other down). There is no roll or pitch control, the ballast block (batteries and lead) keep the vehicle level on those axis (slight roll during translate operation). Some ROV's have four fixed reversible horizontal thrusters, one on each corner, with the front two pointed 45 degrees inward and the aft two pointed 45 degrees outward, and one vertical reversible thruster. The four horizontal control surge (all powered forward or reverse), yaw (one side forward the other side reverse), and translate (one aft thruster forward, the other reverse, and one front thruster forward and the other reverse). The vertical thruster controls heave. Minimum two axis control is one steerable reversible thruster to control surge and yaw.? Control heave with buoyancy or dive planes which really is pitch control rather than true heave. Minimum three axis control is two independent rotating non-reversible thrusters, one on each side, to control surge, heave and yaw by the direction they are pointed (the SportSub has this but they must rotate together and are therefore reversible).? If they are also canted out 45 degrees then you also get to control translate. Pitch and roll are necessary in airplanes, but not in personal submarines (okay sometimes pitch is useful for powered ascent and descent). I think three reversible thruster do the trick, the primary in the stern that is steerable for surge and yaw, and one canted reversible rotatable on each side for heave, translate, surge redundancy, and yaw redundancy.? Place those two on the sides just forward of hydrodynamic centre and you also get a bit of powered pitch. What configuration were you thinking about with six thrusters? Eight?? Are you looking for redundancy or only non-reversible thrusters? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-28-15 1:38 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning I am trying to figure out the thruster position for all my thrusters before I take Gamma apart.? I have tested with two thruster pointing strait ahead. That worked well, now I have the same two thruster on angles opposing each other.? I notice on some? commercial subs that the thrusters are vectored, in fact four forward facing thrusters, one at each corner. I assume the way it works is, all four thrusters are turned on, two in forward and two in reverse.? To go strait ahead all four turn on in the same direction.? I am trying to keep it at 6 thrusters but may need 8. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 16:44:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 08:44:34 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: References: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55ba8cd1.46eb420a.2ce03.ffff9152@mx.google.com> Hi James, I had a similar problem with the Comsub. When it gets a bubble the vent is in the wrong place. Centralised venting can create problems. I am going localized pilot operated venting. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Hi Hugh, Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea. Anyway, its going in this weekend. I know where the bubble is. I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones. Maybe that's why I get the bubble. Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue. Regards James On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James. Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble. Hugh. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Hi All, Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back. Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank. If I T in this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out. I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts? Thanks James ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12559 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 17:16:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:16:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: <55ba8cd1.46eb420a.2ce03.ffff9152@mx.google.com> References: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> <55ba8cd1.46eb420a.2ce03.ffff9152@mx.google.com> Message-ID: This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > > I had a similar problem with the Comsub. When it gets a bubble the vent > is in the wrong place. Centralised venting can create problems. I am > going localized pilot operated venting. > > Regards, Hugh > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". > > > > Hi Hugh, Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an > idea. Anyway, its going in this weekend. I know where the bubble is. I > think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge > ones. Maybe that's why I get the bubble. Anyway, im pretty sure this will > cure the issue. > > > > Regards > > James > > > > On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi James. > > Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, > then see if the outlet is above the bubble. > > Hugh. > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland > via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". > > > > Hi All, > > > > Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back. > Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the > front or rear tank. > > > > If I T in this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first > and still get the bubble out. I cant see anything wrong with this, but I > though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts? > Thanks > > James > > > > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12559 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 17:50:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 21:50:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: References: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> <55ba8cd1.46eb420a.2ce03.ffff9152@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1791446453.6015167.1438293037345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,there was the water lock problem that Scott (I think) had with the K350 design.When you dive, water enters the ballast air release line. Then you fill the ballast tankwith air to surface, & entrap the water in the line. Next dive, when you open the valve,no air comes out because the weight of the water in the line overcomes the force of the airtrying to leave the ballast tank. I think it was overcome by putting in larger tubing.That's how I remember the issue anyway.Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. Best, Alec ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,I had a similar problem with the Comsub.? When it gets a bubble the vent is in the wrong place.? Centralised venting can create problems.? I am going localized pilot operated venting.Regards,? Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi Hugh,? Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea.? Anyway, its going in this weekend.? I know where the bubble is.? I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones.? Maybe that's why I get the bubble.? Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue.?RegardsJames?On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi James.Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble.Hugh.??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi All,?Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back.? Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank.??If I T in?this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out.? I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts?? ThanksJames? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 18:38:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:38:48 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Message-ID: That is true. I have that problem. Honestly it isn't that big of a problem though. At the end of a dive I just blow in the valves and they work just fine.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 4:50 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Alec,there was the water lock problem that Scott (I think) had with the K350 design.When you dive, water enters the ballast air release line. Then you fill the ballast tankwith air to surface, & entrap the water in the line. Next dive, when you open the valve,no air comes out because the weight of the water in the line overcomes the force of the airtrying to leave the ballast tank. I think it was overcome by putting in larger tubing.That's how I remember the issue anyway.Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. Best, Alec ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,I had a similar problem with the Comsub.? When it gets a bubble the vent is in the wrong place.? Centralised venting can create problems.? I am going localized pilot operated venting.Regards,? Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi Hugh,? Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea.? Anyway, its going in this weekend.? I know where the bubble is.? I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones.? Maybe that's why I get the bubble.? Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue.?RegardsJames?On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi James.Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble.Hugh.??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi All,?Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back.? Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank.??If I T in?this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out.? I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts?? ThanksJames? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 18:55:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 22:55:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <844851255.6784521.1438296956433.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,did you tap a compressed air line in to the vent line to do that?Can't remember.Alan From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". That is true. I have that problem. Honestly it isn't that big of a problem though. At the end of a dive I just blow in the valves and they work just fine.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 4:50 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Alec,there was the water lock problem that Scott (I think) had with the K350 design.When you dive, water enters the ballast air release line. Then you fill the ballast tankwith air to surface, & entrap the water in the line. Next dive, when you open the valve,no air comes out because the weight of the water in the line overcomes the force of the airtrying to leave the ballast tank. I think it was overcome by putting in larger tubing.That's how I remember the issue anyway.Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. Best, Alec ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,I had a similar problem with the Comsub.? When it gets a bubble the vent is in the wrong place.? Centralised venting can create problems.? I am going localized pilot operated venting.Regards,? Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi Hugh,? Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea.? Anyway, its going in this weekend.? I know where the bubble is.? I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones.? Maybe that's why I get the bubble.? Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue.?RegardsJames?On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi James.Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble.Hugh.??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi All,?Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back.? Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank.??If I T in?this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out.? I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts?? ThanksJames? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 20:58:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 19:58:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Message-ID: No, I just blow in it with my mouth.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 5:55 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Scott,did you tap a compressed air line in to the vent line to do that?Can't remember.Alan From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". That is true. I have that problem. Honestly it isn't that big of a problem though. At the end of a dive I just blow in the valves and they work just fine.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 4:50 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Alec,there was the water lock problem that Scott (I think) had with the K350 design.When you dive, water enters the ballast air release line. Then you fill the ballast tankwith air to surface, & entrap the water in the line. Next dive, when you open the valve,no air comes out because the weight of the water in the line overcomes the force of the airtrying to leave the ballast tank. I think it was overcome by putting in larger tubing.That's how I remember the issue anyway.Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. Best, Alec ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,I had a similar problem with the Comsub.? When it gets a bubble the vent is in the wrong place.? Centralised venting can create problems.? I am going localized pilot operated venting.Regards,? Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi Hugh,? Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea.? Anyway, its going in this weekend.? I know where the bubble is.? I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones.? Maybe that's why I get the bubble.? Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue.?RegardsJames?On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi James.Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble.Hugh.??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi All,?Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back.? Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank.??If I T in?this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out.? I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts?? ThanksJames? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 21:02:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 21:02:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion Message-ID: While I understand it will probably never be "done". I just dropped my hull at the welder for help with the last few welds. I am now considering it done and have hopefully thought through it enough so I won't need to add future penetrations as it evolves. A big milestone for me and I am looking forward the next step of priming and painting (not yellow). Thanks to all who helped get me to this point! Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 21:09:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:09:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion Message-ID: Steve,I totally agree not painting it yellow. You wouldn't believe how many people sing that stupid freaking yellow submarine song. Mine was supposed to be orange. Word of advice, check the color of the paint before you leave the store.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 8:02 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion While I understand it will probably never be "done". I just dropped my hull at the welder for help with the last few welds. I am now considering it done and have hopefully thought through it enough so I won't need to add future penetrations as it evolves. A big milestone for me and I am looking forward the next step of priming and painting (not yellow). Thanks to all who helped get me to this point! Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 21:32:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 21:32:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's not that I don't like yellow. It's just that I think it's been over done in the sub world. At least you have a good story about your paint color. :-) On Jul 30, 2015 9:10 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > I totally agree not painting it yellow. You wouldn't believe how many > people sing that stupid freaking yellow submarine song. Mine was supposed > to be orange. Word of advice, check the color of the paint before you leave > the store. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 07/30/2015 8:02 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion > > While I understand it will probably never be "done". I just dropped my > hull at the welder for help with the last few welds. I am now considering > it done and have hopefully thought through it enough so I won't need to add > future penetrations as it evolves. > > A big milestone for me and I am looking forward the next step of priming > and painting (not yellow). > > Thanks to all who helped get me to this point! > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 21:33:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 01:33:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <366759219.5540157.1438306430491.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> No Kidding,Yellow is my?favourite colour, but everyone seems to think it is funny to sing that stupid song. ?I find people take the sub more seriously if it is white. ?I had one A-hole at the dock a few days ago say "what is that contraption" ?lets just say I am glad no one recorded my reply, I am a bit embarrassed ?with my lack of tact ?at times. :-)?Hank On Thursday, July 30, 2015 7:09 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Steve,I totally agree not painting it yellow. You wouldn't believe how many people sing that stupid freaking yellow submarine song. Mine was supposed to be orange. Word of advice, check the color of the paint before you leave the store.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 8:02 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion While I understand it will probably never be "done". I just dropped my hull at the welder for help with the last few welds. I am now considering it done and have hopefully thought through it enough so I won't need to add future penetrations as it evolves. A big milestone for me and I am looking forward the next step of priming and painting (not yellow). Thanks to all who helped get me to this point! Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 22:43:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 02:43:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1225741498.6174167.1438310618259.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Scott,trying to understand this.You want to dive & it's blocked, so you have to open the vent valve which is in the conning tower.Then you go outside the boat or stand with the hatch open & blow down the vent tube untill itfeels clear. Then you turn the valve off because the ballast tank is now venting, & close the hatch,?or just close the hatch quickly & dive.Cheers Alan From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". No, I just blow in it with my mouth.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 5:55 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Scott,did you tap a compressed air line in to the vent line to do that?Can't remember.Alan From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". That is true. I have that problem. Honestly it isn't that big of a problem though. At the end of a dive I just blow in the valves and they work just fine.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date: 07/30/2015 4:50 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Alec,there was the water lock problem that Scott (I think) had with the K350 design.When you dive, water enters the ballast air release line. Then you fill the ballast tankwith air to surface, & entrap the water in the line. Next dive, when you open the valve,no air comes out because the weight of the water in the line overcomes the force of the airtrying to leave the ballast tank. I think it was overcome by putting in larger tubing.That's how I remember the issue anyway.Cheers Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. Best, Alec ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,I had a similar problem with the Comsub.? When it gets a bubble the vent is in the wrong place.? Centralised venting can create problems.? I am going localized pilot operated venting.Regards,? Hugh?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi Hugh,? Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea.? Anyway, its going in this weekend.? I know where the bubble is.? I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones.? Maybe that's why I get the bubble.? Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue.?RegardsJames?On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Hi James.Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble.Hugh.??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T".?Hi All,?Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back.? Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank.??If I T in?this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out.? I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts?? ThanksJames? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 23:44:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:44:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion In-Reply-To: <366759219.5540157.1438306430491.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <366759219.5540157.1438306430491.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006001d0cb43$2d998eb0$88ccac10$@telus.net> Too bad about the connection to that song. Yellow is actually a good hi-viz colour to paint a personal submarine (sure beats black), but yup, people just can't leave it alone. A SportSub in Britain was actually deliberately painted yellow because that was the owner's favourite song. Happily, no one sings that song when they see my black sub. Even so, I get too many comments about it being "cute", and that will likely not change when I paint it some other colour (ship side gray, perhaps). Orange is good, but I agree with Scott, it better be really orange. Contraption? My favourite question from Joe Public, "Are you even allowed to have a submarine." That question would be even worse if it came from some official wearing a Smokey-the-Bear hat. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-30-15 6:34 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion No Kidding, Yellow is my favourite colour, but everyone seems to think it is funny to sing that stupid song. I find people take the sub more seriously if it is white. I had one A-hole at the dock a few days ago say "what is that contraption" lets just say I am glad no one recorded my reply, I am a bit embarrassed with my lack of tact at times. :-) Hank On Thursday, July 30, 2015 7:09 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles " > wrote: Steve, I totally agree not painting it yellow. You wouldn't believe how many people sing that stupid freaking yellow submarine song. Mine was supposed to be orange. Word of advice, check the color of the paint before you leave the store. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 07/30/2015 8:02 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion While I understand it will probably never be "done". I just dropped my hull at the welder for help with the last few welds. I am now considering it done and have hopefully thought through it enough so I won't need to add future penetrations as it evolves. A big milestone for me and I am looking forward the next step of priming and painting (not yellow). Thanks to all who helped get me to this point! Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 23:48:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian V Ryder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 23:48:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries Message-ID: <4EEC40A0-166D-42DA-BED7-7ABB0E92B139@subatlantic.com> Hello it's been a long time since I have chimed in but I have a few questions for the group I am getting ready to move and completely overhaul DSH 2 our pierce built sub and the final boat will resemble antipodes without the rear viewport My question is batteries I will have funding available for lithium polymer battery's has anyone used them or any knowledge on them And also are there any drawings around of antipodes ? Any help would greatly be appreciated and the boat will be at our shop in Salem Ohio if anyone wants to come by and lend some much needed knowledge Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 23:57:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:57:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning and compass thoughts Message-ID: <006a01d0cb45$097db680$1c792380$@telus.net> Hank, Will the four thrusters be mounted high on the hull like the single vertical one you showed me last week? If so then this position would probably be beneficial for three dimensional maneuvering close to the bottom as the thrusters would be less likely to stir up the silt and mud. Less likely doesn't mean won't. I am imagining that you will have four thrusters mounted high, horizontal and canted 45 degrees to the long axis. Toss a photo or drawing our way so that we can see your plans. An aircraft compass may be your best bet since you can adjust the internal magnets to "swing" the compass. It's hard to say how even that would work inside an all steel boat, especially when that big electric motor powers up. Scuba with a DPV made my wrist compass useless while under power. What are the K-subs using for compass nav? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-30-15 5:34 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning Tim, I learned a lot yesterday, I repositioned my test thrusters from strait ahead to angled almost 45 degrees. My concern was the forward speed would suffer greatly. In fact the forward speed is still very good, and the turning performance is also good. I am now thinking I will use 4 thrusters. I am not sure about the DW set up because the DW is a short wide machine compared to Gamma. I am thinking the same for the vertical thrusters, but the forward thrusters might be in the front on an angle. I will test with the thrusters in the rear before I commit. If the forward thrusters are in the front, I can see them and it is easier to make them jettisoning . The viz in Premier lake is still 15 feet and I am still struggling with my compass. I think I will have to go electronic because what I have is useless. Hank On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 9:26 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey Hank, Take note of the DW configuration. Four fixed reversible thrusters, two horizontal and two vertical but canted out by 45 degrees. The two horizontal control surge (both powered forward or in reverse) and yaw (one powered forward, the other in reverse). The two vertical control heave (both powered up or down) and translate (one powered up, the other down). There is no roll or pitch control, the ballast block (batteries and lead) keep the vehicle level on those axis (slight roll during translate operation). Some ROV's have four fixed reversible horizontal thrusters, one on each corner, with the front two pointed 45 degrees inward and the aft two pointed 45 degrees outward, and one vertical reversible thruster. The four horizontal control surge (all powered forward or reverse), yaw (one side forward the other side reverse), and translate (one aft thruster forward, the other reverse, and one front thruster forward and the other reverse). The vertical thruster controls heave. Minimum two axis control is one steerable reversible thruster to control surge and yaw. Control heave with buoyancy or dive planes which really is pitch control rather than true heave. Minimum three axis control is two independent rotating non-reversible thrusters, one on each side, to control surge, heave and yaw by the direction they are pointed (the SportSub has this but they must rotate together and are therefore reversible). If they are also canted out 45 degrees then you also get to control translate. Pitch and roll are necessary in airplanes, but not in personal submarines (okay sometimes pitch is useful for powered ascent and descent). I think three reversible thruster do the trick, the primary in the stern that is steerable for surge and yaw, and one canted reversible rotatable on each side for heave, translate, surge redundancy, and yaw redundancy. Place those two on the sides just forward of hydrodynamic centre and you also get a bit of powered pitch. What configuration were you thinking about with six thrusters? Eight? Are you looking for redundancy or only non-reversible thrusters? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-28-15 1:38 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning I am trying to figure out the thruster position for all my thrusters before I take Gamma apart. I have tested with two thruster pointing strait ahead. That worked well, now I have the same two thruster on angles opposing each other. I notice on some commercial subs that the thrusters are vectored, in fact four forward facing thrusters, one at each corner. I assume the way it works is, all four thrusters are turned on, two in forward and two in reverse. To go strait ahead all four turn on in the same direction. I am trying to keep it at 6 thrusters but may need 8. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 30 23:58:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:58:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006f01d0cb45$324159f0$96c40dd0$@telus.net> Congratulations, Steve. It is a significant milestone. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-30-15 6:03 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion While I understand it will probably never be "done". I just dropped my hull at the welder for help with the last few welds. I am now considering it done and have hopefully thought through it enough so I won't need to add future penetrations as it evolves. A big milestone for me and I am looking forward the next step of priming and painting (not yellow). Thanks to all who helped get me to this point! Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 00:51:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 04:51:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: <4EEC40A0-166D-42DA-BED7-7ABB0E92B139@subatlantic.com> References: <4EEC40A0-166D-42DA-BED7-7ABB0E92B139@subatlantic.com> Message-ID: <1115314618.6273976.1438318295577.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,Deep Worker is now using Lithium Iron from these people.http://beckettenergy.com/?they are up the North East somewhere. ? ?At Underwater Intervention Convention these people gave me a Tee Shirt.I had to go to my cupboard to find the name.Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) | Custom advanced battery solutions for the oil and gas industry SWE | Southwest Electronic Energy Group | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) | Custom ad...Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) designs and builds custom advanced battery solutions for oil and gas, seismic, pipeline inspection, military, remote monit... | | | | View on www.swe.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | again Lithium Iron.Lithium Polymer seems to be reguarded as the unsafe technology.You could stay with your lead acid batteries & hold out for these guys to come on stream.Oxis To Manufacture Li-S Batteries Achieving 400 Wh/kg | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Oxis To Manufacture Li-S Batteries Achieving 400 Wh/kgOriginally published on Kompulsa. Many years ago, I learned of a technology that could turn the energy?industry upside down -- the lithium-sulfur battery. It could ... | | | | View on cleantechnica.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Would be interested in anything you turn up as I am looking at either Lithium Ironor Lithium Sulphur if it eventuates. I have a year or so to make up my mind though.Hugh has had some experience (bad) with Lithium Sulphur. He may give some adviceif you take that path.Cheers Alan From: Brian V Ryder via Personal_Submersibles To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 3:48 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries Hello it's been a long time since I have chimed in but I have a few questions for the group I am getting ready to move and completely overhaul DSH 2 our pierce built sub and the final boat will resemble antipodes without the rear viewport My question is batteries I will have funding available for lithium polymer battery's has anyone used them or any knowledge on them And also are there any drawings around of antipodes ? Any help would greatly be appreciated and the boat will be at our shop in Salem Ohio if anyone wants to come by and lend some much needed knowledge Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 04:54:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 09:54:43 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: References: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> <55ba8cd1.46eb420a.2ce03.ffff9152@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Alec, I think its because I made my tanks slightly different. They are not the same as proper Kittredge ones. I have a feeling that there are two issues. The profile of the tank is not as steep as Kittredge ones. Well, they don't look it to me, I haven't got any proper K tanks to reference against. So I think its more prone to getting stuck. The other issue is that I have quite a large lip on the inside which is to help eliminate burping for use in the sea. However, I think this prevents the escape of air. I think that maybe the standard K boat tanks would spill the bubble out the end of the tank if you dived nose or tail first, whereas the lip on mine catches it. Im hoping the new vent might cure the fault but I have a worry now. I could end up with the same situation if the water blocks vent 1. Im hoping it will relieve the bubble enough for the boat to start to level and allow final venting from the proper vent. Will have to see if it works..... See terrible picture. Im at work, and I did this in MS paint... Pic shows potential problem... Regards James ? On 30 July 2015 at 22:16, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same > design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If > I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the > boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble > block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm > following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> >> I had a similar problem with the Comsub. When it gets a bubble the vent >> is in the wrong place. Centralised venting can create problems. I am >> going localized pilot operated venting. >> >> Regards, Hugh >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". >> >> >> >> Hi Hugh, Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an >> idea. Anyway, its going in this weekend. I know where the bubble is. I >> think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge >> ones. Maybe that's why I get the bubble. Anyway, im pretty sure this will >> cure the issue. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> James >> >> >> >> On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi James. >> >> Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line >> horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble. >> >> Hugh. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *James Frankland >> via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the >> back. Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either >> the front or rear tank. >> >> >> >> If I T in this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first >> and still get the bubble out. I cant see anything wrong with this, but I >> though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts? >> Thanks >> >> James >> >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: T.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22184 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 05:42:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 09:42:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning and compass thoughts In-Reply-To: <006a01d0cb45$097db680$1c792380$@telus.net> References: <006a01d0cb45$097db680$1c792380$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1786122039.5738929.1438335779330.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,Yes all four motors will be up high to avoid stirring up the bottom, also the vertical thruster need to be high so I can?manually rotate them in case I have trouble with the horizontal thrusters. ?That is my emergency get home plan. ?I have now moved my test thrusters into the vertical position, one on each side at an angle like the DW. ?Monday I will test it while training my step daughter to be the relief pilot.Hank On Thursday, July 30, 2015 9:58 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,Will the four thrusters be mounted high on the hull like the single vertical one you showed me last week?? If so then this position would probably be beneficial for three dimensional maneuvering close to the bottom as the thrusters would be less likely to stir up the silt and mud.? Less likely doesn't mean won't.? I am imagining that you will have four thrusters mounted high, horizontal and canted 45 degrees to the long axis.? Toss a photo or drawing our way so that we can see your plans. ?An aircraft compass may be your best bet since you can adjust the internal magnets to "swing" the compass.? It's hard to say how even that would work inside an all steel boat, especially when that big electric motor powers up.? Scuba with a DPV made my wrist compass useless while under power.? What are the K-subs using for compass nav?Tim ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-30-15 5:34 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning ?Tim,I learned a lot yesterday, I repositioned my test thrusters from strait ahead to angled almost 45 degrees. ?My concern was the forward speed would suffer greatly. ?In fact the forward speed is still very good, and the turning performance is also good. ?I am now ?thinking I will use ?4 thrusters. ? I am not sure about the DW set up because the DW is a short wide machine compared to Gamma. ?I am thinking the same for the vertical thrusters, but the forward thrusters might be in the front on an angle. ?I will test with the thrusters in the rear before I commit. ? If the forward thrusters are in the front, I can see them and it is easier to make them jettisoning .The viz in Premier lake is still 15 feet and I am still?struggling with my compass. ?I think I will have to go electronic because what I have is useless.Hank ? ?On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 9:26 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Hey Hank, Take note of the DW configuration. Four fixed reversible thrusters, two horizontal and two vertical but canted out by 45 degrees. The two horizontal control surge (both powered forward or in reverse) and yaw (one powered forward, the other in reverse). The two vertical control heave (both powered up or down) and translate (one powered up, the other down). There is no roll or pitch control, the ballast block (batteries and lead) keep the vehicle level on those axis (slight roll during translate operation). Some ROV's have four fixed reversible horizontal thrusters, one on each corner, with the front two pointed 45 degrees inward and the aft two pointed 45 degrees outward, and one vertical reversible thruster. The four horizontal control surge (all powered forward or reverse), yaw (one side forward the other side reverse), and translate (one aft thruster forward, the other reverse, and one front thruster forward and the other reverse). The vertical thruster controls heave. Minimum two axis control is one steerable reversible thruster to control surge and yaw.? Control heave with buoyancy or dive planes which really is pitch control rather than true heave. Minimum three axis control is two independent rotating non-reversible thrusters, one on each side, to control surge, heave and yaw by the direction they are pointed (the SportSub has this but they must rotate together and are therefore reversible).? If they are also canted out 45 degrees then you also get to control translate. Pitch and roll are necessary in airplanes, but not in personal submarines (okay sometimes pitch is useful for powered ascent and descent). I think three reversible thruster do the trick, the primary in the stern that is steerable for surge and yaw, and one canted reversible rotatable on each side for heave, translate, surge redundancy, and yaw redundancy.? Place those two on the sides just forward of hydrodynamic centre and you also get a bit of powered pitch. What configuration were you thinking about with six thrusters? Eight?? Are you looking for redundancy or only non-reversible thrusters? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: July-28-15 1:38 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] thruster positioning I am trying to figure out the thruster position for all my thrusters before I take Gamma apart.? I have tested with two thruster pointing strait ahead. That worked well, now I have the same two thruster on angles opposing each other.? I notice on some? commercial subs that the thrusters are vectored, in fact four forward facing thrusters, one at each corner. I assume the way it works is, all four thrusters are turned on, two in forward and two in reverse.? To go strait ahead all four turn on in the same direction.? I am trying to keep it at 6 thrusters but may need 8. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 05:48:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 10:48:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion In-Reply-To: <006f01d0cb45$324159f0$96c40dd0$@telus.net> References: <006f01d0cb45$324159f0$96c40dd0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Nice one Steve. Well done. A big job out the way. Last dive I had a boat drive past while I was at the dock and they started singing "We all live in a WHITE submarine". Cant get away from that wretched song...... On 31 July 2015 at 04:58, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congratulations, Steve. It is a significant milestone. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* July-30-15 6:03 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Hull Completion > > > > While I understand it will probably never be "done". I just dropped my > hull at the welder for help with the last few welds. I am now considering > it done and have hopefully thought through it enough so I won't need to add > future penetrations as it evolves. > > A big milestone for me and I am looking forward the next step of priming > and painting (not yellow). > > Thanks to all who helped get me to this point! > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 05:50:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 09:50:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: <1115314618.6273976.1438318295577.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1115314618.6273976.1438318295577.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1206890198.5679586.1438336236413.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,I am?curious why you would want Lithium batteries instead of AGM. ?Is it a weight issue? ?In the DW?it makes?sense because weight is a huge factor, I would have guessed with your sub volume it would not be an issue. ?Hank On Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Brian,Deep Worker is now using Lithium Iron from these people.http://beckettenergy.com/?they are up the North East somewhere. ? ?At Underwater Intervention Convention these people gave me a Tee Shirt.I had to go to my cupboard to find the name.Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) | Custom advanced battery solutions for the oil and gas industry SWE | Southwest Electronic Energy Group | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) | Custom ad...Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) designs and builds custom advanced battery solutions for oil and gas, seismic, pipeline inspection, military, remote monit... | | | | View on www.swe.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | again Lithium Iron.Lithium Polymer seems to be reguarded as the unsafe technology.You could stay with your lead acid batteries & hold out for these guys to come on stream.Oxis To Manufacture Li-S Batteries Achieving 400 Wh/kg | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Oxis To Manufacture Li-S Batteries Achieving 400 Wh/kgOriginally published on Kompulsa. Many years ago, I learned of a technology that could turn the energy?industry upside down -- the lithium-sulfur battery. It could ... | | | | View on cleantechnica.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Would be interested in anything you turn up as I am looking at either Lithium Ironor Lithium Sulphur if it eventuates. I have a year or so to make up my mind though.Hugh has had some experience (bad) with Lithium Sulphur. He may give some adviceif you take that path.Cheers Alan From: Brian V Ryder via Personal_Submersibles To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 3:48 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries Hello it's been a long time since I have chimed in but I have a few questions for the group I am getting ready to move and completely overhaul DSH 2 our pierce built sub and the final boat will resemble antipodes without the rear viewport My question is batteries I will have funding available for lithium polymer battery's has anyone used them or any knowledge on them And also are there any drawings around of antipodes ? Any help would greatly be appreciated and the boat will be at our shop in Salem Ohio if anyone wants to come by and lend some much needed knowledge Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 06:18:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 10:18:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Message-ID: <764476570.5723880.1438337898814.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Tim,I am all ears about the aircraft compass, ?any suggestions? ? I don't get why it is not working, I can rotate the compass body and the ball inside stays fixed on the direction. ?When I travel on the bottom at 270 degrees, I deviate and correct and I expect to loosely track but maintain my direction. ?When I surface I am facing the opposite direction. ?Hmmm I wonder if the sub is rotating during the assent, ?that would make sense. ?I will have to watch the compass while I am surfacing, maybe the sub develops a spin.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 15:45:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian V Ryder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:45:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: <1206890198.5679586.1438336236413.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1115314618.6273976.1438318295577.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1206890198.5679586.1438336236413.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <66F90910-04F3-48B8-BD32-00B7CCB67D03@subatlantic.com> Hank I was just thinking that it would be a better battery but after reading I am second guessing myself, in its original configuration it was around 23k pounds and I want to lighten it up as much as I can we had looked at antipodes when she was for sale and I like the look and way it was set up rough calculations would be about 15k set up like antipodes That's a weight I can deal with and the AGM batteries worked well they were full river 250 AH 6 volt But I always like new stuff and a smart battery is just cool Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 31, 2015, at 5:50 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Brian, > I am curious why you would want Lithium batteries instead of AGM. Is it a weight issue? In the DW it makes sense because weight is a huge factor, I would have guessed with your sub volume it would not be an issue. > Hank > > > > On Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:55 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Brian, > Deep Worker is now using Lithium Iron from these people. > http://beckettenergy.com/ they are up the North East somewhere. > At Underwater Intervention Convention these people gave me a Tee Shirt. > I had to go to my cupboard to find the name. > Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) | Custom advanced battery solutions for the oil and gas industry SWE | Southwest Electronic Energy Group > > > > > > > > > Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) | Custom ad... > Southwest Electronic Energy Group (SWE) designs and builds custom advanced battery solutions for oil and gas, seismic, pipeline inspection, military, remote monit... > View on www.swe.com > Preview by Yahoo > > again Lithium Iron. > Lithium Polymer seems to be reguarded as the unsafe technology. > You could stay with your lead acid batteries & hold out for these guys to come on stream. > Oxis To Manufacture Li-S Batteries Achieving 400 Wh/kg > > > > > > > > > Oxis To Manufacture Li-S Batteries Achieving 400 Wh/kg > Originally published on Kompulsa. Many years ago, I learned of a technology that could turn the energy industry upside down -- the lithium-sulfur battery. It could ... > View on cleantechnica.com > Preview by Yahoo > > Would be interested in anything you turn up as I am looking at either Lithium Iron > or Lithium Sulphur if it eventuates. I have a year or so to make up my mind though. > Hugh has had some experience (bad) with Lithium Sulphur. He may give some advice > if you take that path. > Cheers Alan > > From: Brian V Ryder via Personal_Submersibles > To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 3:48 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries > > > Hello it's been a long time since I have chimed in but I have a few questions for the group > I am getting ready to move and completely overhaul DSH 2 our pierce built sub and the final boat will resemble antipodes without the rear viewport > My question is batteries I will have funding available for lithium polymer battery's has anyone used them or any knowledge on them > And also are there any drawings around of antipodes ? > Any help would greatly be appreciated and the boat will be at our shop in Salem Ohio if anyone wants to come by and lend some much needed knowledge > > Thanks Brian > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 17:49:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 09:49:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". In-Reply-To: References: <55b93e6e.6285460a.16011.682f@mx.google.com> <55ba8cd1.46eb420a.2ce03.ffff9152@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55bbed92.4784460a.3acf.ffff9096@mx.google.com> So James, How do you get the air to run downhill to your vent which is now underwater. As the guys explained the top part of the vent if it is full of water will not vent. Your drawing shows the problem. Vent point must be above bubble. You cant dive at an angle like U-boats. The problem is not the lip. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 31 July 2015 8:55 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Hi Alec, I think its because I made my tanks slightly different. They are not the same as proper Kittredge ones. I have a feeling that there are two issues. The profile of the tank is not as steep as Kittredge ones. Well, they don't look it to me, I haven't got any proper K tanks to reference against. So I think its more prone to getting stuck. The other issue is that I have quite a large lip on the inside which is to help eliminate burping for use in the sea. However, I think this prevents the escape of air. I think that maybe the standard K boat tanks would spill the bubble out the end of the tank if you dived nose or tail first, whereas the lip on mine catches it. Im hoping the new vent might cure the fault but I have a worry now. I could end up with the same situation if the water blocks vent 1. Im hoping it will relieve the bubble enough for the boat to start to level and allow final venting from the proper vent. Will have to see if it works..... See terrible picture. Im at work, and I did this in MS paint... Pic shows potential problem... Regards James ? On 30 July 2015 at 22:16, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is interesting because the K350 and K250 have virtually the same design in this respect, but I can't induce this problem even on purpose. If I flood one tank 100% and only then start flooding the other, so that the boat feels like she's standing on her head, I still don't get a bubble block. Well... no complaints! But I'm looking at it carefully because I'm following the K design on the new boat as its worked well for me. Best, Alec On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, I had a similar problem with the Comsub. When it gets a bubble the vent is in the wrong place. Centralised venting can create problems. I am going localized pilot operated venting. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 8:46 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Hi Hugh, Drawing is not to scale or anything, it was just to give you an idea. Anyway, its going in this weekend. I know where the bubble is. I think maybe my tanks are not as steep a profile as original Kittredge ones. Maybe that's why I get the bubble. Anyway, im pretty sure this will cure the issue. Regards James On 29 July 2015 at 21:58, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James. Turn your drawing at the angle you think you want, draw a line horizontal, then see if the outlet is above the bubble. Hugh. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 30 July 2015 1:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main Ballast Vent "T". Hi All, Im going to T in another vent pipe into my main ballast tank at the back. Unless I submerge perfectly straight, I get a bubble stuck in either the front or rear tank. If I T in this vent extension to the existing line, I can dive nose first and still get the bubble out. I cant see anything wrong with this, but I though id ask in case anyone has any thoughts? Thanks James ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22184 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12559 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jul 31 18:56:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:56:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Batteries In-Reply-To: <66F90910-04F3-48B8-BD32-00B7CCB67D03@subatlantic.com> Message-ID: <1438383376.82181.YahooMailMobile@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes, cool is good but simple is better and simple gets you in the water. Nice sub by the way! Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: