[PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights

Sat Jul 25 23:14:57 EDT 2015

Cliff,I was thinking of a switch inside the hull that drops the voltage, & the voltage dropis picked up by an IC in the light housing which switches to 5000 lm.But for any thermal control it would have to be a sensor to an IC in the light housing.Alan
      From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights

Are you thinking about controlling the switching from inside the hull or just via a dip switch on the PWB?

Cliff 

On Jul 25, 2015, at 9:36 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Cliff, I think we are getting confused with dimming & switching. I don't mind just switching between 10 & 5000 lm rather than dimming it down progressively.Like you I am wanting multiple lights; some out the side but at a lower power than 10,000 lm. However will concede to a single 10,000 lm light if that's what the majority wants.Have a 1000lm light pulled apart at the moment & the driver is miniscule.
About 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4''.Cheers Alan

      From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights

Alan, I think the key deliverable is small inexpensive 10000 lumen light that we could DIY fabricate.  I am thinking multiple lights per boat.  I would like to be able to bring up a light screen on my HMI and toggle on and off individual lights. That would be the extent of the control.  To me the real issue is as you note is how to dissipate 94W.  This is three times the power of my 5000 lumen light.  I like the idea of the circuit measuring temperature in the enclosure and rolling back the voltage protect the light as well as the other basic protections Ken has specified.  This is going to be a small enclosure.  As such the PWB is not going to have room for a lot of dual components.  So to me we should revert back to no dimming.
Cliff
On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

So Cliff,are you happy with the 10,000 & 5,000 switchable option, providedthere are no more pins needed? I am happy with that. Howeverif Ken can come up with thermal protection in the form of dimmingI think that is a good safe guard. If you think of the heat from a 1 bar heater;we will be developing 1/10th of that in a small enclosure.Alan
      From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights

Hank, I am with you on this.  I think the dimmer overly complicates the lite.  In the spirit of KISS and to keep the cost down, I am thing we need to roll back to the no dimmer position.Cliff

On Saturday, July 25, 2015, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

I find that I either need light or not.  I used to think dimming would be good, but now I would say it is a waste of time.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 7/25/15, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
 To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 5:53 PM

 #yiv7943653100
 #yiv7943653100 --

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 #yiv7943653100 These are standard reflectors made
 for the 29 LED array, they are not expensive but have not
 actually found the cost yet.  They are made out of plastic but
 metal ones are also available.  Have you a suggestion? Now’s the
 time to make changes.  The beam angle of the array is 120
 degrees to 50% falloff which will be modified by passing
 through the proposed flat port. Don’t know by how much,
 haven’t looked at that problem.   Take a look at the spec on the web
 forum. New release today from Cliff and I.  Dimming seems to be the present
 issue, to dim or not to dim.  Appreciate your
 comments,  Ken  From: Personal_Submersibles
 [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On
 Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:58 PM
 To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights  Ken, in your latest
 document you are stating....There are a number of reflectors
 made for this 29 LED Array with beam angles of 18, 28 and 40
 degreesLooking on my
 favourite underwater light site, I found the following beam
 angles...

 3 with 85 degree
 flood, 1 with 85 & 32 spot option, 2 with 77 or 30, 2
 with 75 or 38 & 1 with 65 flood.It seems up round
 80 degrees is the most popular.I like the idea of
 being able to interchange reflectors to have either a wide
 or narrow beam.To get the 80
 degree flood we would need to create a housing so that the
 emitter was near enough to the lense to be able to
 get that wide angle. With a reflector that was more narrow
 we could then reduce the angleto
 suit.There are miriads
 of reflectors on the Deal Extreme site (search on
 reflector). These are usually for flash lights& bike lights
 so not sure if we would get an 80 degree angle.Here is a bridgelux
 80 degree reflector but about 3" diameter.http://darkoo.en.alibaba.com/product/60081774368-221072235/Bridgelux_COB_led_reflector_DK7560_REF_K_B_75mm_80_degree_white_reflector_high_efficiency_new_product.htmlI can do an
 extensive Google on this, but any thoughts on this direction
 first?AlanFrom: Alan James via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:17
 AM
 Subject:
 Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights  Cliff,the retaining ring
 for the lense could easily be made larger
 &have holes drilled
 for attachment, if people wanted to modify the design for
 there own purposes. Also
 noted on the D.S.P.&L. site that they have multiple
 options for differentbrands of
 connectors. Again just make the thread on our generic
 housing for whateverconnector or blue
 globe cable gland we want.Alan    From: Cliff Redus via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:17
 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights  Alan, my thinking
 is that with the flange, you could mount the light either
 way.  On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP
 recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the
 outside of the FRP shell.  Would still need to cut a hole
 were the body passes through the FRP shell.  Yes this does
 reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was
 thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed
 flange.  I don't see any problem with either approach
 to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat
 gadget.
  Cliff  On Fri, Jul 24,
 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:

   Cliff,I was thinking of
 fitting the light in to a bowl
 shapedrecess in the
 fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were
 proposingcutting a hole out
 & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is
 betterbecause my idea
 would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the
 fiberglasssurrounding the
 light fitting.Alan
  From: Cliff Redus via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43
 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights
  Alan, I am visual
 kind of guy.  Can send me sketch of what you are describing
 and we can talk.
  Cliff
  On Fri, Jul 24,
 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:  Looks a good solid
 light Cliff.On looking at the
 perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking
 weneed a back entry
 for the purposes of mounting in to a
 housingin the fairing as
 you have requested in your list.I am looking at
 mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the
 shape of the light in the
 molding to receive it. If there was a
 threadedextension on the
 back of the light it could slot through a hole & be
 securedwith a nut. This
 would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks
 inmy
 situation.Alan
  From: Cliff Redus via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55
 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights
  Ken, if you go to
 Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk,
 or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a
 short video of the light.
  Cliff
  On Thu, Jul 23,
 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:  Cliff, How do I look at
 them?? Ken From:
 Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via
 Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Thursday,
 July 23, 2015 4:18 PM
 To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights Now that Jon has
 the forum site set up for the LED light project, my
 suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site
 called out in Jon's email.  BTW, I have uploaded to the
 site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000
 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was
 mentoring last year. Cliff On Thu, Jul 23,
 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:Doing the dimming
 electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and
 where do you mount the Potentiometer? We can include the
 wires in the cable for use as an option this also
 complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would
 require 4 wires. Personally I also
 like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use
 it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff
 would like to delete. You guys be sure to
 keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for
 a while. Ken From:
 Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM
 To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights Cliff,
 Ken,I like the dimming
 option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light
 insome low visibility
 conditions where there is a lot of back
 scatter.The 5,000 lumen
 option may act like a fog
 light.Also I am thinking
 of having lights mounted to the side which may
 notneed to be as
 intense.Depth rating....
 looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light
 housings,it seems simple to
 achieve a reasonable depth without much more
 cost.Potting the
 board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case
 some of thecomponents needed
 to get rid of a bit of
 heat.Mechanical
 housing..... with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of
 the recessed light.Alan From: Clifford Redus via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06
 AM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights Ken, good first
 pass at the specs.  Below are comments.  BTW, I will post
 these here as I have not been able to get the activation
 code back yet on registering at the
 forum. Item 2.1 DC
 Voltage.  If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery
 bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC.  When I switch to MK 101
 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC
 my instrumentation bus is 24VDC.  Would need a
 single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different
 nominal voltages. Item 4.0 Depth
 Requirement.  In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think
 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough.  I know
 Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else
 shooting for more than
 500m? 6.0 Dimming.   I
 would omit the ability to dim the light.  Yes I know it is
 easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go
 with more pins on the subsea connector.  I am thinking on
 installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off
 for each light.  I could go either way on this but in the
 spirit of KISS, I vote to omit
 dimming. 8.3 Ports  I would
 change plastic to acrylic.  I don't think we will end
 up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs
 to size the acrylic lens. 9.0 Printed Wiring
 Boards.  I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor
 controller PWBs are potted.  Rather than using the spray on
 hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept
 for access to fuse).  Therefore suggest changing the word
 coated to potted. 11.0 Mechanical
 Housing.  I suggest.  The LED panel light and PCB shall
 be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted
 cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed
 in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the
 flange.  The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array
 rated at 10,000 lumens  with a rated power of  91-140
 lumens/W (109-71W).  Mounting holes will be provided for
 an optional SS yoke style support bracket. 
  Material: Hard
 anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6  TBD (I have a grey beard
 machinist friend that owns a machine shop.  He loves
 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than
 6061-T6. On Thu, Jul 23,
 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote: Cost is critical.
 The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The
 housing might be the most expensive. Hope you guys are
 reading the specification. Ken From:
 Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
 On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via
 Personal_Submersibles
 Sent: Thursday,
 July 23, 2015 10:18 AM
 To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED
 Lights Jon, thanks for
 setting up the forum.  I am assuming we can post files as
 well.  I agree low cost
 is important but having a functioning light is as well. 
 OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an
 option unless they can be potted.  To me the best way to
 keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a
 1-atm  DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have
 machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that
 could be easily fabricated using  one of the PCB online
 sites like  ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and
 DIY populate the board.  As a group, we design and build a
 prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as
 designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that
 includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list
 and test
 results.  Getting a
 consciences on the design spec is the first
 step.  Cliff On Wed, Jul 22,
 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 My
 three words of advice...cost, cost, cost.

 One measure of a success for
 this project will be how many people actually build/use
 it.  If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing
 something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd
 off the shelf then it's real world application by
 psubbers may be limited.

 Over-spec'ing the design above requirements
 for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi
 capability) is likely going to drive up the cost.  Also,
 let's remember that "cheap", "low
 cost", and "good price" are relative terms
 for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic
 estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling
 is required.

 Jon

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