[PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

Thu Mar 12 10:23:15 EDT 2015

Hi,

Egress out of the sub is a different scenario and not one that I like to
entertain.

Obviously I hope we all do everything conceivable to design the flooded sub
scenario out of existence; bullet proof hull, oversized soft ballast, hard
drop weights, jettisonable propellers, guarded ports/penetrators, strobe
light, comms, 72 hours emergency life support...

This facemask connected to a scuba tank/regulator at the moment of egress
would be the bailout solution, for shallow depths.

If your going any deeper, the scuba regulator is very poor insurance. I
would say, even the K-250 dives below this threshold, and should have all of
the above features.

Adam

  _____  

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:32 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

I am still not convinced. 
In the case of a flooded submarine the 
scrubber system wouldn't work unless you mounted the scrubber
very high in the sub. Also in the situation where you flood the sub
to escape, you need air on tap for the final pressure equalisation.
It is reasonably comforting to see a regulator next to you when
you are last person out.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 12/03/2015, at 4:43 pm, Adam Lawrence via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alan,

Yes, there is a very small amount of smoke in the volume of a 1-3 person
submarine, compared to a building fire. Air filter respirators cartridges,
combined with scrubbing and O2 replenishment accomplish the same thing as an
SCBA, but without increasing cabin pressure.
 ee
Adam
  _____  

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 10:21 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

OK I follow.
So would the filter system filter out the smoke?
I see firemen using compressed air, not filters.
Flown over Houston but never visited.
Alan

  _____  

From: Adam Lawrence via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

Allen,

No, not breathing pure O2, just enough to sustain you at the normal needed
consumption rate, this O2 is mixed with filtered and scrubbed cabin air at
the canister when you inhale.

A one tam sub, I am in Houston Texas.

Adam

  _____  

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 9:46 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

So are you breathing pure O2 in an emergency situation?
I guess the only time you would have a full face mask on
is when there is smoke in the cabin from a fire.
If you breathed pure O2 you would be adding more fuel to the
flames.
What sort of sub do you own Adam & what part of the World are you from?
I'm down in N.Z.
Alan

  _____  

From: Adam Lawrence via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

Hi Allen,

What I have is simpler than a full blown rebreather.
The oxygen supply/flow enters the cabin at the scrubber canister. The
canister has an air filter on it already (dust/smoke/hydrogen sulfide...).
The emergency piece of equipment is a full face mask with a hose that
connects to the scrubber assembly (fan off) on the inhale side, exhale goes
back into the cabin.

The next simple version may be just a full face mask with dust/vapor
cartridge, good enough to keep your eyes and lungs clean while making a
quick ascent.

Those millionaires get all the toys.

Adam

  _____  

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 5:27 PM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

Hi Adam,
that would require a rebreather style set up to do that.
I believe they had a rebreather back up on James Camerons sub.
A bit expensive & complicated.
Alan

  _____  

From: Adam Lawrence via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

For emergencies, wouldn't you use a full-face mask connected to a CO2
scrubber and air filter and pure oxygen, all on the inhale side...

Compressed scuba air would increase cabin pressure and make things
uncomfortable...

-----Original Message-----
From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org]
On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 10:26 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air

Brian,
I don't mean oxygen, I mean  regular scuba air.  I have and am sure all
other subs have scuba breathing apparatus for emergencies like smoke.  I
take air from my ballast supply for that purpose.  If your ballast air is
Nitrogen then you will need an extra tank for emergency breathing.  
Hank --------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/11/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Received: Wednesday, March 11, 2015, 10:18 AM

Yes, my oxygen will be a separate
tank, or tanks.

Brian

--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org
wrote:

From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 05:37:11 -0700

Brian,
You must be planning to have a separate tank for emergency  air for
breathing, in case of fire etc.
Hank
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/11/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
wrote:

  Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ballast air
  To: "PSubs" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Wednesday, March 11, 2015, 2:50 AM

  I'm planning on having
  3 - 300cu ft air cylinders for my ballast supply air.
  I noticed that if I get them filled with nitrogen it is
  cheaper than getting breathing or industrial air
  !   That is, until I get my own
  compressor. Brian

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